/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/09/29/#launchpad.txt

kikogneuman, bug assigned to you12:16
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dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  fix broken link in add watches portlet (patch-2482: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)12:35
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mptg'night, padders01:06
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Implement make lintmerge. (patch-2483: christian.reis@canonical.com)01:10
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fixing download_url for Dogfood configuration (patch-2484: celso.providelo@canonical.com)01:41
lifelesswin 1601:48
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zygahmmm02:01
zygawhat has happened to the karma counter?02:01
zygadid everything jus re-set?02:01
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Check Soyuz usage of Librarian API (SourcePackageFile and BinaryFiles), test added and small fixes for builddUI after dogfood usage. (patch-2485: celso.providelo@canonical.com)02:19
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dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  db permissions and fixes (patch-2486: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)11:02
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zygawhere can one complain about wiki css12:41
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nkourjordi, hi are you here?02:01
jordiyes, but I need to leave very soon02:01
nkourjordi, wait02:01
nkourjordi, one day has passed and italian po 100% is still 0% https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/0.8/+pots/gajim/02:01
nkourI uploaded the po so I know it's 100%02:01
nkourbut rosetta says 0%02:01
nkourI wrote to the ML but apparently noone aproved my messg and/or noone replied02:02
nkourI uploaed via https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/0.8/+pots/gajim/it/+upload02:02
jordistrange, that should have worked.02:02
nkourI'm not italian, but it hsould work (carlos told me) as it's more handy that to upload a tarball with POT and po02:02
jordican I try to do it myself?02:02
nkourjordi, of course02:02
jordinkour: where do I get the file?02:03
nkourjordi, http://trac.gajim.org/file/trunk/po/it/LC_MESSAGES/gajim.po?rev=3716&format=raw02:03
nkour[15:03:32]  ua: it upload very slowly 02:04
nkour[15:04:02]  ua: when i upload the last i received a messege of the upload it's correct 19 hours ago02:04
nkour[15:04:19]  nkour: wow!02:04
nkourua is the basque transl (also in rosetta)02:04
nkourbut for me it's more than a day02:04
jordibasque is eu02:04
nkourjordi, I know he had to wait 19 hours. and now he has it 100% but he has to wait very long02:04
jordilet's see02:04
nkourIT I waited for a day02:04
nkourk02:05
jordiI'll get dressed and so on while we wait02:05
jordithat's strange.02:16
jordiI don't know why it doesn't show up.02:17
jordiI'll mail the list.02:17
nkourjordi, thanks02:23
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kiko-zzzahoy matsubara 02:48
matsubaraoba!02:57
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kikohey BjornT 03:01
kikojamesh?03:01
BjornThi kiko 03:01
kikohow's lithuania this time of the year?03:02
kikoSteveA tells me you've got a mountain bike03:02
kikoI was telling bradb to get one for me to rent in Montreal03:02
BjornTnot too bad actually, but it's starting to get worse...03:02
kikohave you and SteveA gone riding?03:03
BjornTno. when i went to canada i didn't exercise that much, and i just started recently to ride again, so i'm quite out of shape :)03:04
kikowhat bike do you have?03:05
BjornTthe frame is from an old mongoose, suspension fork marzocchi mx comp eta, derailleurs and such shimano XT03:08
BjornTdo you think there will be some opportunity to ride in montreal?03:09
kikonice bike03:09
kikoyeah!03:09
kikoeither the 6am bike call or the weekends03:09
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BjornTcool. i'll talk to bradb about getting me a bike as well, it'd be nice to ride some there03:12
kikodefinitely03:12
kikoI'm taking my helmet and pedals and shoes03:13
kikoor maybe I could just buy another helmet there, extra helmets are never a bad idea03:13
BjornTyeah, i'll probably look into buying some stuff while i'm there, finding good bike parts in lithuania is hard :(03:14
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eruinwhat does   xxx-deprecated-do-not-use-1 in rosetta mean really?03:15
kikoeruin, that we imported templates that shouldn't be translated because they're not going to be used03:15
eruinhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/nb  -- take gaim as an example03:15
kikothe import process gets some imports wrong03:16
eruinoh03:16
kikoit decides that it's a new template instead of an existing one03:16
eruinthen how are we supposed to get the particular app translated?03:16
kikowe need to fix bugs faster, eruin 03:16
eruinin launchpad?03:16
kikoyeah :-(03:17
eruinhehe03:17
kikolet me load that page AAR03:17
kikoeruin, order by package name03:17
kikoyou'll notice that there are N glib entries, but only one of the templates is /not/ called xx-deprecated*03:18
eruinah03:18
kikohttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/glib2.0/+pots/glib20/nb/+translate03:18
kikothat's the one you should translate03:18
kikoI apologize for the error, of course03:18
kikoit's just that importing these templates is non-trivial03:18
eruinyeah, I've been wondering how you manage it in the first place03:19
kikothe importer gets itself mixed up and thinks it found a new template for glib2.0, where in fact it's just a new version of the existing template03:19
kikothere's an importer process that pulls the template and translations from newly uploaded packages03:19
kikoit needs to be smart enough to locate existing templates03:20
kikosome packages have interesting directory organization and we don't cope with it very well03:20
kikoI believe this is the case with glib2.003:20
eruinpah, what's launchpad/rosetta coded in?03:21
kikoeruin, python and zope303:21
kikoa pretty cool piece of infrastructure if you ask me03:21
eruinI guess I should step up and teach myself python properly03:21
eruinit's just not that easily combined with a bachelor in arts ;-)03:22
kikowell, python is one of those languages that I believe anyone should learn, no matter what profession03:22
kikothe future is going to be all about programming-by-end-users I think03:22
eruinyeah, I've started diving into it, but my "programming" experience is limited to php03:24
eruinso it's an adjustment proper :p03:24
kikodive into python!03:25
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eruinthat's a nice fun guide indeed03:27
ddaaDuh... looking at one's people +assignedbugs page is _slow_03:30
ddaabradb: is that worked on?03:30
ddaa(slow as in several tens of seconds, slow as in "I think I'm going to do something else while this page loads")03:31
kikoddaa, yes, it's a known issue being worked upon03:32
ddaaoh... also03:33
ddaathe "fix request for" columns contains important links (to change the bug status) _these_ should be underlined03:34
ddaaI'm sure that's all known, but I take some revenge for all the baz pestering here :)03:34
kikoddaa, heh03:34
eruin"stat failed"03:45
eruincould anyone tell me what that really means?03:45
kikocouldn't find a file, usually03:46
eruinI'm translating synaptic and it has some very obscure strings like that03:46
kikoit's referring to the stat() system call03:46
kikosynaptic is crack03:46
eruinhehe03:46
eruinwe should spank it's authors03:46
kikoI'd file upstream bugs to get the damned messages fixed03:46
eruinI'll make a list, actually03:46
ddaaThat particular error message probably violates half a dozen UI design rules :)03:46
eruinyeah03:46
kikoThe  stat()  function  shall obtain information about the named file and write it to the area pointed to by the buf argument. The path argument points to a03:47
kiko       pathname naming a file.  Read, write, or execute permission of the named file is not required. An implementation that provides additional or alternate file03:47
kiko       access  control mechanisms may, under implementation-defined conditions, cause stat() to fail. In particular, the system may deny the existence of the file03:47
kiko       specified by path.03:47
kikocraaaack03:47
ddaaIOW, may mean anything from "file does not exist" to "hard drive dead", through "you do not have permission to check whether this file exists" and "this software is buggy" :)03:48
eruinshould be handled more gracefully than spitting that at the user03:49
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  fix broken link in bug link porlet. (patch-2487: bjorn.tillenius@canonical.com)03:49
ddaaI think you can safely replace it by something like "an internal error ocurred but the programmer did not make me intelligent enough to know what to do about it or to tell you how to fix it".03:49
ddaa:->03:49
kikoI support ddaa's comments as usual, for the record03:50
eruinwhat's the "Global translation wiki"?03:50
kikoheh03:50
kikomore craaaaack03:50
eruinwhere do I find it and how can I spank people with silly entries in it?03:50
kikothe global translation wiki isn't really a wiki03:50
kikoI'd buy you ice cream if you filed a bug on the name being stupid and confusing03:51
eruinthen how is it seperated from "Published elsewhere" ?03:51
ddaakiko: please don't tell me it's not really global and not really about tranlation...03:51
kikookay03:51
kikoddaa, what does global mean?03:51
kikoI wouldn't say it's global either03:51
kikoeruin, I'll explain03:51
eruinyay03:51
kikoif you're not an official translator for a language03:52
kikoyour suggestions don't become official when you enter them03:52
kikoinstead they are stored but flagged as unofficial03:52
kikothis repository of unofficial translations is the GTW [sic, or what?] 03:52
kikoask for the published elsewhere03:53
kikos/ask/as/03:53
kikowe translate in rosetta both upstream products and distribution packages03:53
kikoso if you add a translation to a product03:53
kikoit isn't automatically used in the distribution03:53
eruinso, me being in the rosetta norwegian nb team makes me what?03:53
kikobut it's displayed there for you to be able to copy it in03:53
eruina semi-official translator? ;P03:54
kikoeruin, you're in the ubuntu translators team for norwegian I suspect03:54
eruincorrect03:54
kikowhich makes you 100% bona fide official03:54
eruinyay03:54
ddaakiko: I think, as a action link, it would be better as "Contribute to translation", within a sentence it would be better as "repository of unofficial translations".03:54
kikoddaa, TOTALLY03:54
eruinI can't even find my way back to the team page on rosetta03:54
kikonow convince the sab03:54
eruinbut I know I'm listed ;p03:54
kikoeruin, you need to go back to the distribution's page (use the breadcrumbs)03:55
kikomore craack03:55
eruinhehe03:55
eruinwell, I dont blame you03:55
kikosomeday I will be able to fix this03:55
eruinsay I have suggestions for launchpad03:55
kikomeanwhile I support end-users on saturdays :)03:55
kikoeruin, file bugs03:55
eruinlike adding a way to register your nick in the profile03:55
eruinokies03:56
ddaakiko: I'm really not in contact with Rosetta in any way. And I think I'd rather keep my credit of "disagree with the boss" for the branch work (that should get into landing shape before UBZ if all goes well).03:56
kikoddaa, you know those credits are precious!03:56
ddaakiko: btw, feel like a quick review?03:57
eruinuck, non-us is a touch nut to translate03:57
eruintough*03:57
kikoddaa, your reviews is usually complicated -- what's it about?03:58
ddaasimple process handling thing, almost trivial03:58
ddaaShould help pqm hangs.03:58
kikoI can try, pastebin it03:58
ddaakiko: I take your previous comment as a compliment :)03:59
ddaakiko: where's the pastebin?04:00
eruinmore string loveliness: "Failed to reopen fd" ;-)04:00
ddaa*laugh*04:00
ddaalet's lock mvo and mpt in a room at UBZ04:00
kikoheh 04:01
ddaaand not them out before one of them passes out or synaptic has useful error handling04:01
kikoddaa, it was a compliment. it's kinnison's, hmmm04:01
kikowhy even mark these strings for translation, sigh04:01
ddaakiko++04:02
eruintranslating them takes the mess to a whole new level04:02
ddaatranlating this stuff is nuts, people who could make sense of them are likely to understand it better in english than in any other language.04:02
eruinI might as well input "jghskj bla bla bal lalalal fd la-la-land" ;)04:03
ddaaI'd rather say "Error blarg yargl yoyo"04:03
eruinah, yes, that's better04:04
kikoeruin, I urge you to file bugs on synaptic04:04
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kikoshould I use caps to urge you harder?04:05
ddaakiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileIvXay1.html04:06
eruinmy list of lunatic strings is growing kiko04:06
eruinatleast I finally understand why nobody has bothered translating synaptic 04:06
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kikoeruin, you'll have a great bug to file04:08
eruinaye04:09
=== kiko points eruin to https://launchpad.net/products/synaptic/+bugs
kikoin particular to https://launchpad.net/products/synaptic/+filebug :-P04:09
eruinsuddenly I'm more tempted to figure out why my ipod nano doesn't want to mount and related issues04:09
eruinbut I'll go through with this 04:10
eruinthen I'll hop into ubuntu-devel and write up a short "translating isn't fun anymore"04:10
ddaaLaziness, impatience, hubris04:11
ddaaif you had those, by this time you have given up, or decided to fork synaptic :)04:11
kikoeruin, yeah, tell them that their strings are making you want to revoke your life certificate04:11
eruinhmm,04:12
eruinthat's a fittingname for the bug04:12
=== ddaa makes tippitap sounds on the table while looking intently at kiko
eruinor maybe I should follow the trend from synaptic and make the entire bug completely incomprehensible04:12
eruinjust to make a point04:13
ddaa"Sypnatci msgs not language"04:13
eruinI'm not particulary a fan of exposing things like "mount", "stat" in any gui04:14
ddaaeruin: it's not about being fan, it's bad UI design to blow such stuff in the face of the user.04:15
eruinmaybe I should use some kind of terminology from the matrix04:15
kikoeruin, you're in the 5 percentile that actually understands how applications should work04:15
eruinabout synaptic requiring a global rm -rf04:15
ddaa(it just happens to be much, much easier)04:15
eruinthe gui should be designed first04:16
kiko+                if self._process.poll() is not None:04:16
kiko+                    break04:16
kikoddaa, can you explain this part to me?04:16
ddaahow much detail do you require?04:16
kikotell me about poll()04:16
kikosemantics04:16
ddaaroughly, _process is a knotted.process.Popen, that reproduces part of the APi of subprocess.Popen04:17
ddaasubprocess.Popen.poll(), polls the process for termination and returns process.returncode.04:17
kikoah04:18
kikoso it returns non-None when the process terminates?04:18
ddaaYup.04:18
kikoand it's non-blocking?04:18
ddaaYup.04:18
ddaaNot timeout feature though.04:18
ddaathus the ugly loop.04:18
ddaamaybe that would deserve a comment...04:19
eruin"mounting" should be something more like "Readying x for use"04:19
ddaaOTOH, you have wait(), which is blocking, and has no timeout either...04:19
eruinor actually, not exposed at all.04:19
kikowon't using wait() cause hangs in certain situations?04:20
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ddaaeruin: I think you should stick closely to the error message. Because it depends on what the rest of the message is.04:20
eruinthe message "mounting CD" shouldn't be there at all04:20
ddaaIf it's "Preparing Ubuntu Breezy Badge CD for use", then' it's okay. If it's "Preparing /media/cdrom for use" I think it's just obscure to everybody.04:21
eruinpreparing CD for use04:21
eruinin a gnome gui, /media/cdrom shouldn't be exposed if that isn't explicitly required - and it shouldn't be04:22
ddaaeruin: what I mean is that the program might be passing that through a format string.04:23
ddaaand that is outside of your control as a translator.04:23
eruinyeah, I see your point04:23
ddaaOne of this "a good UI is not an afterthough" things.04:24
ddaakiko.poll()04:24
kiko<kiko> won't using wait() cause hangs in certain situations?04:25
kikoddaa.wakeup()04:25
ddaaoh sorry04:25
ddaaWell, this patch only uses wait() after SIGKILL04:26
kikoright04:26
ddaabecause apparently CVS is to crackful to reliably quit after SIGTERM...04:26
kikoyou could get a hard-to-kill zombie, right?04:26
ddaahu...04:27
sivanghey all04:27
ddaakiko: what do you have in mind?04:27
sivanganybody knows what that wonderful page (https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadArchitectureOverview) no longer available?04:27
sivang(IIRC it was a very nice overview for the highly interested)04:28
ddaaI do not see what more I could do after closing the pipe to the server, sending it a SIGTERM, waiting for a while, and sending it a SIGKILL...04:28
ddaaAIUI it's a kernel bug if wait() hands after SIGKILL04:28
ddaa* hangs04:28
kikoddaa, well, there are known situations (an NFS disconnect for instance) in which SIGKILL doesn't kill the process in predictable time04:29
kikoanyway04:29
kikor=kiko 04:29
ddaakiko: if elmo starts using NFS on the import machines, I'll happily rewrite importd in Haskell :)04:30
ddaaafter calling the medics04:30
kikoheh04:31
ddaaactually, it's "on chinstrap" that it matters (pqm system)04:31
kikoyeah04:31
ddaakiko: no change required?04:31
kikoddaa, no -- you already have a wait() there anyway; this just makes it more robust04:32
ddaabtw, not waiting (or polling until it returns non-None) is what causes zombies.04:33
kikoparent dies and doesn't reap its children04:33
ddaatbh, I find process handling to be deep magic04:35
ddaaThanks.04:36
kikosure, enjoy04:36
eruinposted a short message about synaptic on ubuntu-devel04:41
eruinhope someone can contribute something as I don't feel my mail accurately described all the issues04:42
kikoeruin, did you file a bug?04:43
kikoif you'd like to, CC: me04:43
eruinhaven't filed a bug yet04:44
eruinwaiting for some replies to the mailing list first04:44
eruinI'm having trouble wording myself properly atm04:44
kikoeruin, just file the bug saying "a number of synaptic's error messages are unhelpful" and pasting in examples in the comment04:45
kikosay you're coming from a translator's angle but it's plain broken even in english04:45
kikothat's what I'd do04:45
eruinhttps://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/254904:47
eruincrap, I missed the part about "I'll leave that for my upcoming bug report" in the copy/paste ;-)04:49
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: [r=kiko]  sigkill cvs server after 30s if sigterm was not enough (patch-111: david.allouche@canonical.com)04:50
eruinkiko, cc'd04:51
kikoeruin, thanks. for the record, you don't need to be so emotional when filing a bug -- the author would probably just say "yeah, it sucks, sorry" if you had voiced it more neutrally -- he may be a bit put off now04:52
kikoI'll talk to mvo04:52
kiko(IRC is a medium that takes better to jesting than bug reports)04:52
eruinhmm, too late to edit it I presume04:53
kikoyeah, but don't worry04:53
kikoI'll talk to mvo when he shows up04:53
kikohe's such a nice guy btw04:53
eruintell him no offense ;-)04:54
eruinI really wish I could search in translation templates04:56
kikofor a specific string?04:59
kikowe're going to support that04:59
eruinspecific strings yeah05:04
kikoyeah, upcoming feature05:04
eruinI really want to get all apps ready, things like "Mark all upgrades" in synaptic, but not mess with strings mentioned in the bug ;-)05:05
ddaaMh, I had user feedback about "Mark all upgrades" being crack since it's a global operation that is not restricted by the current listing.05:13
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jordiI suspect something is wrong with the rosetta import queue05:44
jordinothing that I upload gets updated in the website.05:44
eruinworse, I get a system error every time I try to submit a page full of translated strings05:49
kikojordi, it's disabled :)05:49
eruinI suspect it has something to do with either the amount of text or the amount of strings marked for review05:50
jordikiko: DISABLED?!05:55
jordikiko: man, I've got Nkour coming in every 2 hours to tell me about it!05:55
jordikiko: any reason, eta for restart?05:55
kikojordi, can you email SteveA CC: launchpad so he fixes it ASAP?05:56
kikoI'm with him on the phone05:56
jordik05:57
jordiis he steve@?05:57
kikoyeah05:58
jordikiko: done06:00
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sabdflwhat's news in the lunchpad?06:28
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eroso.o06:45
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ddaasabdfl: samba import passed autotest and is currently running on hoover06:57
jordisabdfl: I have a question for you in the mailing list06:57
jordisabdfl: how did your vacation go?06:57
ddaapython import from a cvsball still running on roomba since monday. At 22873/32448 revs, bottlenecked on baz commit slowness.06:58
ddaaalso, quake3 now has a baz branch :)06:59
jordiddaa: who's taken over? quakeforge?06:59
ddaamh? icculus.org maintains a portable quake3 branch based on id software released code.07:00
jordihmm icculus.org07:00
ddaait still depends on the commercial CD for game data07:00
ddaait's just a portable game engine07:00
ddaathey are not even trying to further the development. Just make the thing work.07:01
jordiyeah, yeah.07:01
jordiI was involved in the QuakeForge fork of quake107:01
jordiThey did extend the stuff quite a bit, keeping it compatible07:01
jordithey revamped the source to make it all a collection of quake plugins07:02
jordiit was neat.07:02
sabdflddaa: rockin' result on samba - well done07:16
sabdflis python up and running too?07:16
sabdflah, i see from scrollback07:17
sabdfljordi: holiday was awesome, still technically away but my fingers were itchin07:17
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sabdflKinnison: so how did the week go, in the end?08:34
jordisabdfl: in rosetta-users, someone asks about translating freeware, as in beer08:36
jordiI told the guy you'd comment on that.08:36
sabdfljordi: np, if it has potemplates and pofiles08:41
jordisabdfl: are you going to reply, or should I?08:43
sabdfljordi: go for it08:43
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jordik08:48
mdkehiya all09:33
mdkehow do I edit the wiki page of a team?09:33
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mdkeactually the wiki page thing is going a bit wierd now09:35
mdkei can't edit my own either09:35
=== mdke files a bug
sabdf1mdke: assign to me, please09:39
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mdkek09:43
mdkei can't assign to him09:44
mdkestupid malone09:44
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mdkeis sabdfl the guy to cc on LP->wiki bugs then? I have another one09:51
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