[12:02] <Keybuk> and it does implicit pipes if you want it to
[12:02] <Kamion> adverbio is an interesting idea for this sort of thing too, which helps when you're using sudo
[12:02] <Kamion> though it's a bit verbose
[12:02] <Kamion> http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2001/06/adverbio.html
[12:05] <dobwan> what is the server for the US breezy apt update? I have it as us.archive.ubuntu.com. (I know this is probably not the right place to ask this, please forgive me)
[12:05] <Kamion> yes, that's the right place. #ubuntu would be a better channel
[12:13] <Kamion> mdz: do you know if initramfs-tools 0.29 is C5-critical?
[12:13] <Kamion> frustratingly, I can't quite tell, and jbailey does not seem to be around
[12:14] <mvo> Kamion: would a synaptic upload now hurt? or should I wait until tomorrow?
[12:14] <Kamion> I'm starting a new build now just in case
[12:14] <Kamion> mvo: please don't
[12:14] <Kamion> tomorrow
[12:14] <Kamion> the topic has not changed
[12:14] <mvo> ok then :)
[12:14] <Kamion> I'm sorry to keep everybody waiting for uploads, but I'm fourteen hours into an extremely long day here
[12:15] <Kamion> and I do not want it to continue into tomorrow
[12:16] <mvo> sure, no problem. I didn't wanted to sound pushy or something
[12:16] <slomo> elmo: please remove gtk-sharp-gapi-unstable and gtk-sharp-examples-unstable
[12:16] <Kamion> it is
[12:17] <Kamion> the errors in your sentence were "didn't wanted" => "didn't want" and "or something" => "or anything"
[12:17] <Kamion> HTH ;-)
[12:18] <mvo> Kamion: yes, thanks :) 
[12:23] <ogra> Kamion, i know initramfs-tools 0.29 fixes a bunch of vmware issues
[12:25] <ogra> mvo, lets do a german BOF at UBZ to teach all these strange people german
[12:25] <ogra> ;)
[12:27] <ogra> mvo, then they have to know what "drngeln" means ;)
[12:28] <mvo> ogra: that will teach them a lesson ;)
[12:28] <ogra> hehe
[12:44] <tseng> elmo: please remove kurush while you are at it, its broken and will be orphaned in debian
[12:49] <Kamion> ok, powerpc really isn't happy with installing to XFS
[12:51] <slomo> Kamion: why? works here
[12:54] <Kamion> slomo: not sure yet
[12:55] <Kamion> slomo: on powerpc?
[12:55] <slomo> Kamion: yes... ibook g4
[12:56] <slomo> Kamion: current breezy install and kernel only fails because of other problems...
[12:56] <slomo> but older kernel works
[12:56] <ogra> slomo, he's talking about the current build that shall become a colony release
[12:58] <Kamion> elaborate on "other problems"?
[12:58] <slomo> Kamion: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14485
[12:59] <Kamion> hmm, yes, I'm seeing the same thing
[01:00] <slomo> wonderfull... so we're 3 now ;) did you tried another fs?
[01:00] <Kamion> if it's only XFS I can errata it
[01:00] <Kamion> no, but I'm about to
[01:00] <Kamion> BRB
[01:00] <slomo> ok
[01:02] <Burgundavia> Kamion, does apt have a way to build something but avoid pushing it the public archives before another package builds? (Ie, with mozilla/epiphany and linux/l-r-m)
[01:02] <Burgundavia> Kamion, that would allow seemless upgrades
[01:02] <Kamion> that's got zero to do with apt
[01:02] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:03] <Burgundavia> is that possible?
[01:03] <Burgundavia> is it worth the effor developing>
[01:03] <Burgundavia> ?
[01:03] <Kamion> not without the equivalent of Debian testing, which we've explicitly decided not to use
[01:03] <Kamion> (for various reasons)
[01:03] <Kamion> it's not really worth the effort because it only affects development releases
[01:04] <Burgundavia> my thought was just for a select few packages
[01:04] <Kamion> s/releases/trees/
[01:04] <Burgundavia> and I am talking a matter of hours
[01:04] <Kamion> special-purpose hacks are usually even less worth it
[01:04] <Kamion> anyway, sorry, I'm extremely busy
[01:04] <Burgundavia> Kamion, ok, just a thought
[01:06] <Kamion> it also doesn't work for linux/l-r-m because l-r-m requires linux to be in the archive first before you can build it
[01:06] <Kamion> and I believe the same goes for mozilla/epiphany
[01:07] <Burgundavia> ugh
[01:07] <Kamion> the buildds don't build from anything private, just the public archive
[01:07] <Kamion> which is good, 'cos you can test things properly before uploading
[01:14] <ivoks> hi
[01:15] <ivoks> anyone? i have one suggestion for libdvdread3
[01:16] <slomo> Kamion: can you add a comment to the bugreport after further testing?
[01:16] <slomo> ivoks: what suggestion?
[01:16] <ivoks> slomo: k3b searches for libdvdcss.so
[01:16] <Kamion> slomo: not tonight, but yes I will later
[01:16] <Kamion> slomo: works fine with ext3, fyi
[01:16] <ivoks> slomo: and install-css.sh provides libdvdcss.so
[01:16] <ogra> ivoks, its illegal
[01:16] <ivoks> slomo: so, links should be created in that script
[01:16] <ivoks> illegal?
[01:16] <slomo> Kamion: ok, i'll talk to jbailey and BenC tomorrow about it... maybe we get this fixed somehow for breezy :/
[01:17] <ogra> yup
[01:17] <slomo> ivoks: libdvdcss is nothing for us ;)
[01:17] <ivoks> ogra: to create link?
[01:17] <ivoks> slomo: i know, but...
[01:17] <slomo> ivoks: what link do you want to create?
[01:17] <ivoks> we provide that script
[01:17] <ivoks> slomo: ln -s /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so. /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.2
[01:17] <ivoks> one . too many :)
[01:18] <slomo> ivoks: a link to a non-existing file?
[01:18] <ivoks> slomo: read from begnining
[01:18] <ivoks> we provide install-css.sh
[01:18] <ogra> where do you get /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.2 ?
[01:18] <ivoks>  /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/examples/install-css.sh
[01:18] <ivoks> there
[01:18] <slomo> ivoks: yes... and...? ;) we don't provide the library itself
[01:18] <ivoks> that's main package
[01:19] <ivoks> slomo: but we provided installer for it
[01:19] <slomo> ivoks: but i would fix k3b or whatevery tries to read libdvdcss.so to look for libdvdcss.so.3
[01:19] <slomo> ivoks: libdvdcss.so.2 even
[01:19] <ivoks> right :)
[01:19] <slomo> ivoks: or change the script to make a link... but everything else is braindead ;)
[01:20] <ivoks> that's what i'm talking about
[01:20] <ivoks> just change script
[01:20] <ivoks> not lib
[01:20] <slomo> ok... but better do the other fix
[01:20] <Keybuk> Kamion: tsk, tsk; leaving ,,undo-1 files in source packages
[01:20] <slomo> let whatever wants to read libdvdcss.so to look for libdvdcss.so.2
[01:20] <Kamion> Keybuk: which?
[01:21] <ivoks> slomo: or that :)
[01:21] <ivoks> slomo: but first one was easier :)
[01:21] <Keybuk> Kamion: cdrom-detect
[01:21] <slomo> ivoks: is the better solution imho... .so files should only be in -dev packages
[01:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: oops; willfix later
[01:21] <ivoks> slomo: whatever...
[01:21] <ivoks> :)
[01:21] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'll do it, if I can understand these bugs mdz has given me
[01:22] <slomo> ivoks: but while you're at it... tell the libdvdcss hoster to put 1.2.9 packages on his webspace and change the script to use these ;)
[01:22] <ivoks> slomo: i noticed only k3b requesting libdvdcss.so
[01:23] <ivoks> slomo: what's libdvdcss? :>
[01:23] <ogra> i think we should rip out that script completely if it silently installs illegal software on your system
[01:23] <slomo> ivoks: are you sure it isn't loaded in libdvdread?
[01:23] <slomo> ogra: it warns about it and must be called by the user
[01:24] <slomo> ivoks: libdvdread uses libdvdcss when it is installed... so i suspect the problem there
[01:24] <ivoks> decss isn't illegale everywhere
[01:24] <ogra> ok, if it warns and explicitly says that you go in jail in the US and various other countries, then its fine
[01:24] <ogra> ivoks, i only know norway...
[01:24] <ogra> its illegal in most other countries...
[01:24] <ivoks> slomo: k3b said it misses libdvdcss
[01:25] <ivoks> ogra: one is enough, isn't it?
[01:25] <slomo> ivoks: i looked at libdvdread and it opens libdvdcss.so.2... so fix k3b ;)
[01:25] <ogra> ivoks, not really, i'd rip out that script
[01:25] <slomo> ogra: what about cuba? ;)
[01:25] <ivoks> ogra: no problem, fine with me
[01:26] <ogra> yes, probably cuba :)
[01:26] <mjg59> Wow. My cheap random USB wireless thing supports being an access point
[01:26] <mjg59> (Under Windows, at least)
[01:26] <ogra> ivoks, its a question if we want to bring users in suspectable legal situations...
[01:26] <Keybuk> ... I guess now is a good time to learn debconf and d-i :p
[01:26] <Keybuk> and here was me being proud of being one of the last people in the world to learn debconf
[01:27] <ivoks> ogra: i understand, i don't object
[01:27] <ivoks> ogra: i just noticed that we have it and it doesn't work ok in one program
[01:27] <slomo> ogra: iirc it is also written in the wiki... but it's written there to use marillat's packages which are newer
[01:27] <ivoks> so, we should fix it or remove it
[01:27] <ogra> yup
[01:28] <slomo> ivoks: just fix k3b... and write a mail at -devel whether the script should be removed ;)
[01:28] <ivoks> i will not do that
[01:28] <ogra> ivoks, yu brought it up
[01:28] <ivoks> i know
[01:29] <ivoks> but...
[01:29] <ivoks> mailing lists are public
[01:29] <ogra> yes, as this channel is...
[01:29] <ivoks> maybe we should come to a solution without ringing with this...
[01:29] <ivoks> ogra: yes, but less people watch it
[01:29] <ogra> write a mail
[01:30] <ivoks> ok
[01:30] <ogra> lets have it discussed to get a solution
[01:31] <ogra> the script itself isnt illegal as you said, so we can discuss it as public as we want...
[01:32] <Kamion> Keybuk: if you're going to hack cdrom-detect, please branch from colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdrom-detect--ubuntu--0 so that I can merge it later
[01:33] <Keybuk> I'm not sure I understand how it works enough to hack it :-/
[01:33] <Kamion> Keybuk: are many of the alleged cdrom-detect bugs actually cdrom-detect bugs, though? I thought most of them were kernel bugs
[01:33] <Kamion> I don't understand it all that well
[01:33] <Keybuk> dunno, #15642 and #15691
[01:42] <ivoks> now... time for bed
[01:42] <ivoks> see you
[01:43] <slomo> ok, good night everybody :)
[01:43] <ogra> night
[01:44] <Keybuk> hmm, well, it looks like it just loads all the modules and hopes that /dev/cdroms turns up
[01:44] <Keybuk> ugh @ how devfs specific that is
[01:46] <Kamion> yes, cdrom-detect is definitely a repository of devfs assumptions
[01:46] <Kamion> doesn't it call udevstart though (perhaps via hw-detect)?
[01:46] <Kamion> hw-detect calls udevstart as the last thing it does, pretty much
[01:48] <Kamion> anyway, bored now; /me starts the release process
[01:48] <Kamion> I'm 6 for 6 on testing, apart from the annoying powerpc/xfs bug
[01:53] <Kamion> grr at cron.daily running on the live CD
[01:55] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS
[01:55] <jdub> Kamion: heh
[01:55] <jdub> Kamion: "good morning" :-)
[02:01] <Kamion> playing it fast-and-loose - I'll send the announcement slightly before it's synced to mirrors. please field any complaints for me, I couldn't do any better with the link about to vanish
[02:03] <BenC> Kamion: you reproduced the ppc-xfs-init bug?
[02:03] <Keybuk> can I break udev now? :p
[02:04] <BenC> Kamion: did it stop at VFS...unknown_block(0,0)?
[02:06] <zyga> good night everyone
[02:08] <apokryphos> Kamion: is there a page with the anouncement of Colony 5's release?
[02:08] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[02:10] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[02:10] <jdub> yo mjg59 
[02:10] <jdub> mjg59: did your ir autolove get into breezy?
[02:11] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah
[02:11] <mjg59> It's not part of ship or desktop though, AFAIK
[02:12] <jdub> oh, package name?
[02:12] <mjg59> irda-utils
[02:12] <jdub> irda-utils?
[02:12] <jdub> ah
[02:12] <jdub> thanks
[02:13] <jdub> a friend blogged about a good experience with bluetooth, not so good experience with ir - wanted to point him to your work :-)
[02:13] <mjg59> Heh
[02:13] <jdub> oh, i already have it
[02:14] <jdub> er
[02:14] <jdub> ir
[02:14] <jdub> eek.
[02:15] <jdub> ha ha
[02:15] <jdub> mjg59: <jaq> is this another "it works in breezy" thing? :)
[02:16] <mjg59> Heh
[02:16] <mjg59> Aww. usplash.
[02:16] <jdub> he did upgrade for 2.6.12, multiple drivers he needed
[02:18] <Keybuk> jdub speaking like yoda now he is?
[02:18] <Keybuk> so what does irda-utils do?
[02:19] <Keybuk> doesn't do anything for me :'(
[02:21] <mjg59> Keybuk: It autoconfigures your irda on startup
[02:21] <jdub> $ lsmod | grep irda | wc -l
[02:21] <jdub> 0
[02:21] <jdub> hrm
[02:22] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% lsmod | grep irda
[02:22] <Keybuk> irda                  187612  5 ali_ircc,irtty_sir,sir_dev
[02:22] <Keybuk> crc_ccitt               1984  1 irda
[02:22] <Keybuk> but it still does nothing
[02:22] <mjg59> Keybuk: Who loaded those modules?
[02:23] <Keybuk> not me
[02:23] <mjg59> That would appear to imply that it worked, then
[02:24] <Keybuk> irdadump doesn't see anything when I wave my phone at it
[02:24] <jdub> hrm
[02:24] <mjg59> Is irattach running?
[02:24] <jdub> i have no AUTOMATIC in default/irda-utils
[02:24] <jdub> but init.d/irda-setup checks for it
[02:24] <mjg59> jdub: Ah. That would probably be your problem.
[02:24] <mjg59> That's generated by debconf magic on install - I wonder what it does if you already have a file. Probably the wrong thing.
[02:24] <Keybuk> mjg59: no
[02:25] <Keybuk> irda-utils start claims to start it, but doesn't
[02:25] <mjg59> Keybuk: Do you have a /var/run/irdadev ?
[02:25] <Keybuk> yes, it contains "irda0 fir"
[02:26] <mjg59> Does /etc/default/irda-utils contain AUTOMATIC="true"?
[02:26] <Keybuk> it does
[02:26] <mjg59> Does irattach irda0 -s work?
[02:27] <Keybuk> it returns immediately with exit 0
[02:27] <mjg59> Right.
[02:27] <mjg59> What does dmesg say about ali_ircc?
[02:27] <jdub> mjg59: --reinstall does not give it love
[02:27] <Keybuk> the last thing it called was clone()
[02:27] <Keybuk> [4420999.099000]  ali_ircc_open(), ali-ircc, Found dongle: HP HSDL-3600
[02:27] <Keybuk> [4421002.582000]  ali-ircc, unable to allocate dma=1
[02:27] <Keybuk> [4421002.582000]  Trying to free free IRQ3
[02:27] <Keybuk> [4421214.643000]  ali-ircc, unable to allocate irq=3
[02:28] <mjg59> Hm. Ok.
[02:28] <mjg59> Keybuk: What does setserial /dev/ttyS1 say?
[02:29] <mjg59> Oops.
[02:30] <mjg59> jdub: Can you try --purging it?
[02:30] <jdub> hopefully that was a kernel crash you get to debug :)
[02:30] <jdub> mjg59: yeah, doing now
[02:30] <jdub> yay, i have automatic
[02:30] <jdub> hrm
[02:31] <jdub> + . /etc/default/irda-utils
[02:31] <jdub> ++ ENABLE=false
[02:31] <jdub> ++ AUTOMATIC=true
[02:31] <jdub> ++ DISCOVERY=true
[02:31] <jdub> ++ DEVICE=/dev/ttyS1
[02:31] <jdub> ++ DONGLE=none
[02:31] <jdub> ++ SETSERIAL=
[02:31] <jdub> 
[02:31] <jdub> that look sensible?
[02:31] <mjg59> Yup
[02:31] <jdub> + cd /sys/bus/pnp/devices
[02:31] <jdub> + IRDA=0
[02:31] <jdub> + STATEFILE=/var/run/irdadev
[02:31] <jdub> + case $1 in
[02:31] <jdub> + for x in '*'
[02:31] <jdub> + FIR=false
[02:31] <jdub> + SIR=false
[02:31] <jdub> + FALLBACK=true
[02:31] <jdub> + OPTIONS=
[02:31] <jdub> 
[02:32] <jdub> then a lot of loops with FIR/SIR=false
[02:32] <mjg59> jdub: Do you get a /var/run/irdadev ?
[02:32] <jdub> nup
[02:32] <mjg59> Is IR enabled in your BIOS?
[02:32] <Keybuk> mjg59: and after pasting that, my machine decided to hang <g>
[02:32] <jdub> ah, *believe* so
[02:32] <mjg59> Dell seem to disable it by default
[02:32] <jdub> 10:29 -!- Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com]  has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 
[02:32] <jdub> 10:30 < jdub> hopefully that was a kernel crash you get to debug :)
[02:32] <mjg59> Keybuk: What does setserial /dev/ttyS1 give you?
[02:32] <jdub> 10:29 < mjg59> Oops.
[02:32] <jdub> :-)
[02:33] <Keybuk> it wasn't even a crash :-/
[02:33] <Keybuk> /dev/ttyS1, UART: 8250, Port: 0x3440, IRQ: 11
[02:33] <mjg59> Wow. That's, uh, interesting.
[02:34] <Keybuk> oh?
[02:34] <mjg59> Ok. Can you find the directory in /sys/bus/pnp/devices/ that contains an id file that contains a string starting ALI?
[02:35] <Keybuk> /sys/bus/pnp/devices/00:03/id:ALI5123
[02:35] <mjg59> Can you cat /sys/bus/pnp/devices/00:03/resources ?
[02:35] <Keybuk> state = active
[02:35] <Keybuk> io 0x3e8-0x3ef
[02:35] <Keybuk> irq 3
[02:35] <Keybuk> dma 3
[02:36] <mjg59> And cat /proc/tty/driver/serial | grep 3e8
[02:36] <mjg59> (Or grep 3e8 /proc/tty/driver/serial - I changed my mind halfway through that)
[02:37] <Keybuk> none
[02:37] <mjg59> Interesting.
[02:37] <Keybuk> ttyS1 doesn't match the ALI5123 resource ... and the ali_ircc is trying the wrong dma? :p
[02:37] <mjg59> The real problem here is that ali_ircc doesn't give ENODEV if it fails to bind
[02:38] <mjg59> But it does also seem to be picky about the IRQ
[02:38] <mjg59> I'll think about that
[02:41] <mjg59> jdub: Do you have anything in /sys/bus/pnp/devices/ that contains an id file with either PNP0510 or PNP0511?
[02:42] <jdub> nup
[02:42] <jdub> looks like i'll have to reboot
[02:43] <mjg59> Yeah, looks like your BIOS isn't enabling it
[02:43] <jdub> fascist dell bios!
[02:43] <bddebian> heh
[02:45] <jdub> can't kill pipka's session though, so will have to play later
[02:51] <tiglionabbit> when is the earliest I can request CDs to get the official Breezy Badger release?  And what cover art are they using?
[02:54] <Lathiat> pkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/x-common_1.08_all.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/X11/fonts', which is also in package xfonts-base
[02:54] <Lathiat> hrm
[03:22] <Lathiat> hrm
[03:22] <Lathiat> its permanant too
[03:22] <Lathiat> not a disordered upgrade problem
[04:05] <`anthony> should the bugzilla package names be updated to include new breezy packages? for instance, I just tried to log a bug against gnome-phone-manager...
[04:06] <wasabi> It's cool when you can stumble over random software packages that happen to provide Ubuntu Hoary .debs
[04:08] <elmo> `anthony: gnome-phone-managers in universe; you should bugs in packages in universe in malone (http://launchpad.net) rather than bugzilla
[04:08] <bddebian> Nooo no more Universe bugs :-)
[04:08] <elmo> (s/bugs/report bugs/)
[04:09] <`anthony> elmo: hm. my bad - should the bugzilla bug report page tell you this?
[04:09] <`anthony> I don't recall seeing it anywhere when logging a bug.
[04:09] <elmo> "Ubuntu:   The Free operating system for everyone - choose this to report any issues with software in the main and restricted components"
[04:09] <elmo> it's not very explicit, but it tries
[04:10] <`anthony> "For bugs in universe or multiverse, please log bugs in <a href="http://launchpad.net">lunchpad</a>" - maybe on the 'enter new bug' page.
[04:11] <`anthony> I'd suggest putting the text under the 'package' widget.
[04:11] <`anthony> But then, I'm not the poor bastard who has to work on the bugzilla code to make that change.
[04:11] <elmo> yeah, I don't know how modifiable that is in bugzilla, or who even would
[04:12] <`anthony> bugzilla: "down, not across"
[04:12] <elmo> haha
[04:14] <`anthony> it's funny cos it's not me ;)
[05:11] <fabbione> lamont-away: no you don't really care about libaio and no it's not worth fixing it yet
[05:27] <Amaranth> *groan*
[05:28] <bddebian> ??
[05:28] <Amaranth> someone using the forums to post to ubuntu-devel things mandriva is going to buy or merge with ubuntu
[05:29] <bddebian> Egads, I hope not :-)
[05:30] <Amaranth> this is an example of why the forums shouldn't be able to post to ubuntu-devel ;)
[05:30] <ajmitch> Amaranth: I must have missed that one?
[05:30] <bddebian> Aye
[05:30] <Amaranth> in the dapper drake thread
[06:52] <jdub> mjg59: unlikely ping
[06:52] <jdub> jbailey: unlikely ping
[08:16] <dhonn> i converted the firefox folder into a compressed iso, mounted it, it loads in 3.1 seconds vs 7.0 seconds uncompressed  and thats under a clean boot conditions
[08:23] <dhonn> tired it to OOo 9.9 vs 12.8 seconds,  i wonder what we could do with this
[08:24] <infinity> That's a classic example of "more CPU than I/O", which is likely true of many computer, but certainly not all.
[08:24] <infinity> s/computer/computers/
[08:24] <sivang> Good morning all :)
[08:25] <infinity> But you can run your whole OS on a compressed filesystem, if you find you have more idle CPU than idle I/O. :)
[08:26] <dhonn> yes on a 700mhz celeron there is no benefit at all
[08:26] <sivang> infinity: do you know if we are going to offer some support to "legacy" nvidia devices through l-r-m?
[08:26] <dhonn> im running a 1.5mhz sempron right now
[08:27] <infinity> sivang : We do.
[08:27] <dhonn> i then compressed the whole /usr/lib folder lol, ubuntu loaded quickly
[08:27] <sivang> infinity: ah, how do I enable this? ;)
[08:27] <infinity> sivang : Install linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r`-nvidia-legacy and nvidia-glx-legacy
[08:28] <sivang> infinity: ah very very cool. Since when is it there?
[08:28] <infinity> A few days. :)
[08:30] <infinity> sivang : Given their shiny newness, more testing of those packages is welcome.
[08:31] <infinity> sivang : They got off to a bumpy start, but they SHOULD be okay now.
[08:31] <infinity> (For some value of "should" that means "I'll cry, if they're still broken in some way")
[08:31] <sivang> infinity: that's exactly what I'm installing now :)
[08:32] <sivang> infinity: will let you know of any weirdness, hopefully my system won't break to much - Trying to fix #6224 and I don't have time to mangle with X right now ;-)
[08:32] <infinity> I've only tested them on amd64, so if you're on i386, feedback is welcome. :)
[08:32] <sivang> infinity: you're on!
[08:33] <infinity> (Well, feedbackis welcome on amd64, too... But I don't even know if they WORK on i386, so it'd be nice to know)
[08:34] <infinity> Note that you may want to reboot after install the new lrm stuff, especially if the other 'nvidia' module in the base lrm package wsas alrady loaded (it's notorious for not really unloading terribly well)
[08:36] <sivang> infinity: it refuses to load on account of FATAL: Error inserting nvidia (/lib/modules/2.6.12-8-686-smp/volatile/nvidia.ko): No such device , this driver won't recognize my "old" gf2 gts, makes you wonder how fast things get deprecated in hardware..
[08:36] <sivang> infinity: so I hope you're legacy one will do the trick
[08:36] <ajmitch> sivang: strange
[08:37] <infinity> sivang : Yeah, they dropped support for (at least) everything pre-GF3.
[08:37] <ajmitch> infinity: what kernel got that driver?
[08:37] <infinity> sivang : I need to get a more definitive list at some point, and put it in the package description.
[08:38] <sivang> infinity: yup. I hope they are sleeping well at night with those direction decisions ;)
[08:38] <sivang> nonetheless, I'm scared to find out the issues I'll have when I'll have my T43 with ati and reliant on fglrx
[08:38] <infinity> ajmitch : Which?... The nvidia-legacy driver?.. We've been building it for the last few days, first kernel with avaialable nvidia-legacy stuff built against it was -8-, and now we have it built for -9-
[08:39] <sivang> infinity: list of supported GPUs ?
[08:39] <ajmitch> infinity: right, I was just wondering why my gf2 mx was still working with -8 
[08:39] <sivang> infinity: ah , so I'll need to boot with -9
[08:39] <ajmitch> without having the legacy driver loaded afaict
[08:39] <infinity> sivang : My T43 works fine with the open source drivers, but a quick test of the latest fglrx shows it working too.
[08:40] <sivang> infinity: oh, I recalled some people hjad problem with it, sudden hangups after a day of uptime etc
[08:40] <infinity> ajmitch : Oh, they may have kept the MX in the supported list.  I think they dropped support based on age, not technology.
[08:40] <sivang> yep, horray for them 
[08:40] <infinity> ajmitch : So, despite the gf2gts being "better", it's older than lots of gf2mx boards, so it goes first.
[08:40] <sivang> infinity: I Know that GTS Is GIga Texel Shader, what's MX  ?
[08:41] <infinity> sivang : The MX is a (heavily) crippled GTS, that's all.
[08:41] <infinity> sivang : Same tech, newer cards, slower performance, aimed at cheapskates.
[08:43] <infinity> sivang : Most of my hanging issues with the T43 seem to have cleared up in more recent breezy... I won't commit to that statement yet, but things are much better than they were.
[08:43] <infinity> sivang : I never have run fglrx, though (except to test it)
[08:44] <infinity> Heck, fglrx didn't even work on the T43 until very recently (didn't work on most laptops until recently)
[08:44] <infinity> s/most/many/
[08:44] <sivang> hrm
[08:45] <sivang> that's not enouraging if you want 3D ;)
[08:45] <infinity> Like I said, should be okay now.
[08:45] <infinity> It's not like the driver was fundamentally broken or anything, they just didn't have laptop modelines and such in the mainline driver.
[08:45] <sivang> however, how is the desktop and plain non gamer's hacking activities on there? any performance issue due to a display bottleneck ?
[08:46] <infinity> ATI finally merged their laptop series and desktop sries upstream into a unified branch, so all hardware seems to be reasonably well supported from one driver.
[08:46] <sivang> infinity: hmm, it appears they also have it shipped with Intel Extreme Graphics adaptors - what do you think about those?
[08:46] <infinity> With the open source driver, I'm reasonably satisfied, but the lack of PCIe acceleration does make tihngs a bit jerky at times.
[08:46] <sivang> infinity: oh that's good. They should have done that from start, like nvidia
[08:47] <infinity> The Intel stuff should work fine, but if you intend to plug in an external mouse and get your Quake on, forget it.  If you want occasioanl 3D, go with the ATI offering.
[08:47] <sivang> infinity: in specific functionality where you experience jerky performance?
[08:48] <infinity> Oh, just stuff like moving windows isn't as smooth as I'd like it, no big deal.  The open source driver and the X300 seem to mostly get along quite well now.
[08:48] <infinity> It'll be a lot better in dapper (there's a LOT of work going into the radeon driver in Xorg upstream right now), but such is life.  Can't have everything shiny.
[08:48] <ajmitch> anything more than ppracer is a challenge for it
[08:49] <infinity> Yeah, Intel isn't noted for their stellar OpenGL performance. :)
[08:49] <sivang> ajmitch: heh, someone claimed they're at least as good as the radeons ;)
[08:49] <sivang> ajmitch: (a local computer shop)
[08:49] <infinity> sivang : They had no idea what they were talking baout. :)
[08:50] <pef> hello
[08:50] <ajmitch> the 8MB shared mem doesn't bode well for performance either
[08:50] <ajmitch> so I think they might have been exaggerating their claims 
[08:50] <sivang> infinity: I think that sums it up, and what is better then helping to supprt more hardware with Ubuntu? it can even be fun, if things really get rough I can alwasy revert to my text terminals :)
[08:51] <infinity> sivang : With the X3000 and fglrx, I can actually fire up doom3 on the T43, and it's playable.  So, yeah, it works.
[08:51] <sivang> cool
[08:51] <sivang> do you know fi the support is for all ranmge of the X's ?
[08:51] <infinity> sivang : But if you don't really NEED fast 3D, the open source drive is quite stable and fine in 2D.
[08:51] <sivang> or per specific model
[08:52] <infinity> For fglrx, we should support everything.  For the open source driver, we support everything, but with varying levels of acceleration.
[08:53] <infinity> Some cards (X850, maybe?) have some accel turned off by default in the open source driver right now, to avoid crashes.
[08:53] <sivang> infinity: I don't need it;) just to be able to build packages quickly on it, do python stuff , etc. 3D acceleration is nice to havbe but not a must at the moment.
[08:53] <infinity> But the X300 (which you find in the T43) is happy.
[08:53] <infinity> sivang : Kay, then I recommend just letting the installer guess it all for you, it'll pick just fine, and the T43 should be happoy out of the box right now.  After buying a T43, that became a personal release goal. :)
[08:54] <infinity> (Not that I had much to do with it, other than bugging other people to make it suck less, but whatever)
[08:54] <sivang> infinity: hehe
[08:54] <sivang> infinity: it's a nice slick machine, eh?
[08:54] <infinity> I'm quite happy with it.
[08:54] <infinity> And it's faster than any desktop I've ever owned.
[08:55] <infinity> (Well, the girlfriend's amd64 is a bit faster, but she never lets me use it..)
[08:55] <infinity> sivang : Oh, a tip, when you spec it, buy it with as little RAM as you possibly can, and then order 2GB of RAM from somewhere else.  IBM's RAM prices are insanely marked up.
[08:56] <infinity> sivang : But the 2GB of RAM is very welcome, when you get it cheap. :)
[08:56] <sivang> infinity: ofcourse. :)
[08:57] <sivang> infinity: do they give some special brand of RAM?
[08:57] <infinity> Mine shipped with Crucial/Micron RAM.
[08:58] <infinity> What I slepped in was something a bit less "brand name", but it's perfectly happy wit hit.
[08:58] <infinity> s/slepped/slapped/
[08:58] <infinity> But even if you wanted to buy Crucial RAM for it, it's cheaper from crucial.com (by about half) than from IBM.
[09:03] <sivang> infinity: heh
[09:04] <sivang> infinity: re:amd64, what do you mean she never let's use it?? ;) one proc, dual core?
[09:04] <sivang> infinity: can you send me your specs so I can base mine on yours?
[09:05] <sivang> infinity: (email)
[09:05] <infinity> I'll just find you the link.  That's simpler.
[09:09] <infinity> Oh, they don't have my exact model displayed anymore.
[09:09] <infinity> Anyhow, it's pretty much exactly this:
[09:09] <infinity> http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=4611686018425075706&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840
[09:10] <infinity> But with a 2195 a/b/g wifi adapter, instead of the 2200 b/g one.
[09:10] <infinity> 2915, even.
[09:11] <infinity> Go with a 14.1 inch screen instead, if you want it to be a tiny bit smaller and lighter.
[09:11] <infinity> The 15" is very pretty, though.
[09:12] <sivang> I'd want only the 14"
[09:12] <sivang> I had my time with heavy, non protable laptops :)
[09:12] <sivang> I want this machine to be ultra protalbe for me
[09:12] <infinity> Well, if you want "ultra-portable", maybe you should be shopping for an X series instead. :)
[09:12] <infinity> But a T with a 14 inch display is reasonably small.
[09:12] <infinity> (Spring the extra money for a 1400x1050 display, though, you'll thank me for it)
[09:13] <sivang> X are much pricier, I'd settle for the T's
[09:14] <sivang> infinity: thx for the tip, I'll keep that in mind
[09:14] <infinity> X and T are in pretty much the same price range, it's just the the X are a lot slower for the same prices. :)
[09:14] <sivang> infinity: then it's a T :)
[09:15] <sivang> infinity: say, I'm playing with hotplug as per that bug I told you about before, I managed to make a script that runs everytime a usb printer is connected to the system, how can I trap it's disconnectino from it? 
[09:16] <infinity> No idea.  I'm hotplug illiterate.
[09:16] <infinity> I just curl up in a ball in the corner and cry when it doesn't work.
[09:16] <sivang> heheh
[09:17] <infinity> At a guess, though, this sounds more like a job for udev than hotplug, assuming these printers create/remove udev entries when they're plugged in.
[09:17] <infinity> I'm told that udev.d hooks are saner.
[09:19] <sivang> actually, my problem now is not actually the hook, assuming I will find a way to fire up the script when the printer is disconnected, but actually teaching cupsd to come back after a SIGHUP when it's running with an unpriviliged user (cupsys)
[09:20] <infinity> sivang : A quick jaunt through hotplug.d would lead me to believe that perhaps a hotplug snippet might be called with ACTION=remove, though.
[09:20] <Treenaks> what was the "canonical" way of rsyncing a daily iso again? (when you already have one, say, yesterday's image)
[09:20] <sivang> infinity: it does
[09:21] <sivang> infinity: for some reason, that event doesn't fire up my "usblp*" script which is exactly as the name of the subsystem in which the event occured , but on ="add" it does
[09:21] <infinity> sivang : Curious.
[09:23] <infinity>     # sysfs files may already be gone
[09:23] <infinity>     if [ $ACTION = 'remove' ] ; then
[09:23] <infinity>         exit 0
[09:23] <infinity>     fi
[09:23] <infinity> Just a guess, but you may be thwarted by usb.agent, there.
[09:24] <sivang> hrm
[09:24] <infinity> Though, that's only in a specific case.
[09:24] <infinity> You'd have to trace it and find out if it's biting you.
[09:25] <infinity> Oh, wait, no, I see it.
[09:25] <infinity> Yeah, trace through usb.agent, near the bottom.
[09:25] <infinity> You snippet isn't called to remove it, a specific "REMOVER" is called for your device.
[09:26] <infinity> So when you create the device, you need to also create its remove script in /var/run/usb
[09:26] <infinity> See the last 100 lines or so of usb.agent.
[09:27] <sivang> infinity: k, looking there now
[09:27] <sivang> infinity: I guessed so, just couldn't find it. When I experiment with replacing /sbin/udevsend from /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug , I saw all events, and was wondering..thanks!
[09:27] <infinity> sivang : usb.agent declares a $REMOVER and exports it, your add script is supposed to create the remove script at that location, and it gets called (then deleted) on remove.
[09:28] <infinity> And on a weekend, no less.
[09:29] <infinity> I think I'll go have a shower.
[09:29] <\sh> morning gentlemen
[09:30] <sivang> infinity: heh, sorry for that! :)
[09:30] <sivang> \sh: good morning mr. hermen ;)
[09:31] <\sh> sivang: ;) 
[09:36] <sivang> doh, I over looked that...declare -x REMOVER="/var/run/usb/%proc%bus%usb%004%007"
[09:41] <mdz> Treenaks: rsync --progress <source> <destination>
[09:42] <Treenaks> mdz: no -c ?
[09:42] <mdz> Treenaks: just so
[09:42] <mdz> -a if you like
[09:42] <Treenaks> ok, thanks
[09:47] <\sh> g'morning doko :) 
[09:52] <\sh> 2.6.12-9.15 failed...so I can't reinstall
[09:53] <crimsun> "...however 9.18, which finally gets sk98lin right, will be uploaded soon after Colony 5 is done"
[09:53] <\sh> crimsun: did I miss one post?
[09:53] <crimsun> (from topic of #ubuntu-kernel)
[09:54] <\sh> crimsun: yay...this chan I missed in my autojoin list ;)
[09:59] <davyd> I have an interesting bug, and no idea where to look to fix it
[09:59] <davyd> using the TV out on my video card usplash comes up black and white
[10:00] <davyd> I _suspect_ it is because it's being outputted in NTSC
[10:00] <davyd> X is fine because I specified a default in X
[10:00] <davyd> anyone have any thoughts?
[10:02] <infinity> davyd : Sure, that early in the boot process, TV out format will be almost completely handled/determined by BIOS settings...
[10:02] <davyd> infinity: that's what I would expect too
[10:03] <davyd> since the motherboard logo also has that NTSC look to it
[10:03] <infinity> davyd : vga16fb certainly has no concept of output display, it just writes to the video car dand hopes.
[10:03] <infinity> davyd : So, if the BIOS has no way to change the TVout mode, you're pretty muhc out of luck.
[10:03] <davyd> infinity: mmm, I was hoping at least that I might be able to fix usplash
[10:03] <davyd> is there any easy way to change fb driver?
[10:04] <infinity> You'd have to write a LOT of code. Like I said, vga16fb has no concept of different output device types, and probably shouldn't.
[10:04] <infinity> If the card can't get it right on POST, there's not much we can really do.
[10:05] <davyd> I was wondering if the nvidia fb driver (rivafb?) might have some concept
[10:05] <infinity> It might, but you can't use usplash with anything other than vga16fb.
[10:05] <davyd> how come?
[10:05] <davyd> I thought they simply chose that as a lowest common denominator
[10:06] <infinity> Wlel, okay, you could hack your own local copy of usplash that may work with another fb driver (but no guarantees there), but is that effort worth it just to get a prettier usplash on your system, and yours alone? :)
[10:07] <davyd> that's why I was wondering how hard it would be
[10:07] <davyd> ie. if there was a config option you could tweak it with
[10:07] <infinity> Well, if rivafb both a) supports your TV out, and b) supports the features usplash needs, it would be easy to hack it locally.
[10:08] <infinity> If either isn't true, you're still screwed, and stuck doing a bunch of devel work. :)
[10:09] <davyd> to be honest, I would actually be surprised if you can't write something into the cards nvram to solve this issue
[10:09] <infinity> find /usr/share/initramfs-tools/ -name usplash
[10:10] <infinity> Hack there.  :)  And you would also probably need to make sure rivafb ends up on your initramfs, if it isn't already.
[10:12] <infinity> Some cards have a jumper (or, two pade where a jumper should be soldered on but isn't) that can switch between defaulting to PAL or NTSC.
[10:12] <infinity> s/pade/pads/
[10:12] <infinity> It's also defaulted in the video card BIOS itself, which is probably a simple binary patch hack ti fix, if you can't download a PAL BIOS to flash to it.
[10:13] <davyd> mmm, I'll go and find the manual
[10:13] <davyd> interesting, the last card didn't have this issue
[10:13] <davyd> but that is a decade old
[10:13] <infinity> There are 1001 sites out there with hacked up nvidia BIOSes, if you're feeling brave.
[10:13] <davyd> perhaps I should just buy a new TV ;)
[10:13] <\sh> hmm...didn't we have established a process for breezy packages backported to hoary? 
[10:13] <infinity> Hacked for different default clock speeds, etc, but I'm sure people have hacked the PAL/NTSC defaults too.
[10:16] <bob2> \sh: you throw it at a buildd, and have it uploaded without checking if it works or not, afaict
[10:18] <infinity> Except for the part where youd don't do that at all.
[10:18] <infinity> Testing that it builds on hoary+backports first would be nice.
[10:18] <\sh> bob2: I'm only asking because all world is using this ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net repos and they're fcked with those stupid mozilla-firefox packages
[10:18] <infinity> And then you ask elmo (I believe he's still the go-between for this) to copy the sources from breezy to hoary-backports.
[10:18] <bob2> \sh: yes
[10:19] <infinity> \sh : yes, no matter how much "official" stuff we do, we can't STOP people from using third party repositories.
[10:19] <bob2> infinity: dont' confuse the issue with your "facts"!
[10:19] <infinity> But we can close their bugs with extreme prejudice when we get them.
[10:19] <infinity> Which is almost as satisfying.
[10:19] <\sh> infinity: but this repos is jdongs...and I thought we agreed, that he will maintain the official backports and not going any further with the unofficial stuff
[10:20] <infinity> You'd have to talk to him about it, I guess.
[10:21] <\sh> infinity: looks like I have to talk to the SPoC of the backports team first...and this is Mez..
[10:22] <sivang> infinity: testing the legacy driver now
[10:22] <sivang> removing nvidia-glx, and installng -legacy now
[10:22] <sivang> (already installed lrm)
[10:23] <infinity> lrm and lrm-nv-legacy, I assume.
[10:23] <sivang> yeah
[10:23] <infinity> (Well, nvidia-glx-legacy depends on lrm-nv-legacy, so as long as it doesn't pull in the wrong one for you, that sorts itself out.. Ish)
[10:24] <infinity> apt-get is horriby bad at dealing that that dependency resolution, though, and just pulls in the first provider of "nvidia-kernel-7147" that it sees, which is almost always the wrong one (and then pulls in a whole new kernel with it, argh)
[10:24] <sivang> I instaleld it afterwards,
[10:24] <sivang> so it had laready have lrm 
[10:24] <infinity> synaptic, aptitude and dselect would all do it properly.
[10:24] <sivang> didn't pull a new kernel at all
[10:24] <infinity> Kay, cool.
[10:25] <infinity> So, you have a matching linux-image, lrm, lrm-nv-legacy, and nvidia-glx-legacy, then you should be good to go.
[10:25] <sivang> Suggested packages:
[10:25] <sivang>   nvidia-glx-legacy avm-fritz-firmware-2.6.12-8
[10:25] <sivang> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[10:25] <sivang>   linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-8-686-smp-nvidia-legacy
[10:25] <sivang> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[10:25] <sivang>   nvidia-glx
[10:25] <sivang> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[10:25] <sivang>   nvidia-glx-legacy
[10:26] <sivang> should I "nvidia-glx-enable" or whatever this thingy is called?
[10:26] <sivang> ok, enabled, rebooting
[10:26] <sivang> wish me lucj :)
[10:26] <infinity> I need to fix it to do more.
[10:26] <infinity>  /usr/sbin/nvidia-glx-config?  You can if you want, but it doesn't really do much except s/nv/nvidia/ in xorg.conf.
[10:29] <davyd> hmm, I had thought that w32codecs was in multiverse nowadays...
[10:29] <\sh> davyd: no
[10:29] <Amaranth> ack no
[10:29] <Amaranth> that thing is so illegal it screams "SUE ME NOW"
[10:31] <davyd> maybe just a reference to it then
[10:31] <sivang> infinity: ok, I'm back
[10:31] <infinity> sivang : And...?
[10:31] <sivang> infinity: didn't see the nvidia splash though, did you disable it by default?
[10:32] <infinity> sivang : No, but it may be disabled in your xorg.conf...
[10:32] <sivang> infinity: I see,lsmod | grep "nvidia" gives nothing.
[10:32] <infinity> sivang : xorg.conf does say "nvidia", not "nv", right? :)
[10:32] <sivang> bah
[10:32] <sivang> it doesn't :)
[10:33] <sivang> last time I'm counting on scripts to do my work
[10:33] <infinity> sivang : While you're at it, remove 'dri' and 'GLcore' from xorg.conf.
[10:33] <infinity> sivang : I'll fix up that stupid script soon, but it wasn't hig on my priority list.
[10:33] <infinity> s/hig/high/
[10:33] <sivang> sure thing :)
[10:34] <sivang> it's just that real man don't use such scripts, I should have know :) (daniels said that or something )
[10:34] <sivang> k, I'm going for another reboo
[10:34] <sivang> t
[10:36] <davyd> hmm, is it HashKnownHosts that breaks bash hostname tab completion?
[10:38] <sivang> infinity: failed to load kenrel module
[10:38] <sivang> infinity: and it tried to load GDM while it was "Updating NVIDIA TLS links" r something :)
[10:38] <infinity> Oh, bah.  That init script needs to move?
[10:39] <infinity> Failed to load kernel module sounds kinda bad, though. :)
[10:39] <infinity> Can you load it manually?
[10:39] <sivang> did everybody else bumped on the WEIRD tet console bheavir that when you attempt login wich caps lock on,
[10:39] <sivang> and manage to,
[10:39] <infinity> (Note that the init script should be at the same spot as the one for nvidia-glx, so if that worked, so should legacy, but whatever..)
[10:39] <sivang> everything is outputted in cAPS ?
[10:40] <infinity> Hah, that happens on my Mac. :)
[10:40] <sivang> WHAT IS THAT???
[10:40] <sivang> :)
[10:40] <infinity> It boots with the caps lock on, and if I forget to turn it off, everything is in caps land.
[10:40] <sivang> That's like halloween
[10:40] <sivang> yeah!
[10:40] <infinity> If you reset(1) the console, it's fine.
[10:40] <sivang> I am also getting weird kbd behavior,
[10:40] <sivang> for instance:
[10:41] <sivang> THIS IS A TeST AND I AM WRITING eVeRYTHING WITH TeH cAPS ON
[10:41] <sivang> I'm using a M$ multimedia kbd
[10:41] <infinity> Very... Neat.
[10:41] <sivang> nice eh?
[10:41] <sivang> I wonder how it selects the chars that will not get caps love
[10:42] <infinity> Lottery.
[10:42] <sivang> LOL
[10:43] <infinity> sivang : So, back to the nvidia business.  Can you load the kernel module manually, or does it still fail?
[10:43] <sivang> infinity: just ried
[10:43] <sivang> tried
[10:43] <sivang> "error inserting nvidia" no such device :-(
[10:44] <sivang> doing it with sudo modprobe nvidia
[10:44] <sivang> infinity: I am going to fetch something to eat, be back in about 30 minutes ok?
[10:44] <infinity> Hrm.
[10:45] <infinity> Alright.
[10:45] <sivang> anything quicky to check?
[10:45] <infinity> Not unless you want to give me access to that box.
[10:45] <infinity> I'd need to fiddle a bit, probabl.
[10:45] <infinity> probably.
[10:45] <infinity> I may care a lot more on MOnday, though.
[10:45] <Chipzz> davyd: it is
[10:45] <infinity> Right now, I'm just killing time while I wait for my sushi to be delivered.
[10:45] <sivang> what do you eman?
[10:46] <infinity> sivang : I'll care deeply about bugs when I'm back at work on Monday. :)
[10:46] <sivang> infinity: oh :)
[10:46] <\sh> hehe
[10:46] <sivang> I won't have access to that amchine on mondya 
[10:46] <Chipzz> (I had some previously unhashed hosts in that file, those complete fine; I just nuked the hashed keys and changed the setting to off)
[10:46] <sivang> infinity: talk in about 30 if you're still there, maybe I can carry on the fiddely for you
[10:47] <infinity> sivang : Does it help that my Monday is probably your Sunday?
[10:48] <infinity> sivang : Also, if you could test the whole mess on a non-smp kernel, that might be helpful too.
[11:39] <sivang> infinity: We'll see on sunday, how do I go back to my previous cponfig? Just put nv instead of the nvidia ?
[11:39] <\sh> sivang: yes ;) normally that works
[11:43] <sivang> \sh: k, be back later then
[12:22] <Kamion> phew, Colony 5 seems to have published ok
[12:22] <Kamion> despite it happening 15 seconds before my network went down, and the sync-mirrors bit running as 'sleep 120; sync-mirrors; sleep 120; sync-mirrors' in a screen on little
[12:25] <mdke_> getting some reports that the italian translations in rosetta have not been updated with the latest language-packs, anyone know anything about that?
[12:26] <tseng> mdke_: i think youll want to ask pitti 
[12:26] <tseng> after confirming the issue
[12:26] <mdke_> sure if no one else knows, I'll post to -devel or something
[12:28] <mdke_> it's a weekend after all
[12:41] <zyga> where can one complain about wiki css?
[12:41] <mdke_> to the webmaster
[12:42] <zyga> mdke: webmaster@ubuntu.com/
[12:43] <mdke> zyga, you have to look on the website, but you can get him at henrik@canonical.com
[12:43] <zyga> thanks
[12:43] <mdke> zyga, what is your complaint out of interest?
[12:43] <zyga> links should be more visible, especially in the wiki
[12:43] <zyga> they use the same font size and style 
[12:43] <zyga> (as regular text)
[12:44] <mdke> they are a different colour though
[12:44] <zyga> hmm? maybe I'm colorblind then
[12:44] <zyga> my LCD shows the exactly same color 
[12:44] <mdke> and underlined
[12:44] <mdke> visited links are black, non visited links are ubuntu brown
[12:45] <zyga> visited links should never be black
[12:45] <zyga> regular text is black
[12:45] <mdke> zyga, better file a bug rather than emailing
[12:46] <sivang> anyonem seen a problem with a dell's laptop touchpad / mouse hiding on the lower left cornet of the dispaly and not willing to come out, even if you offer it some good cheese and connection and extenral USB mouse ?
[12:46] <zyga> sivang: did you touch the touchpad with wet fingers?
[12:46] <zyga> (this is not a joke)
[12:47] <zyga> my touchpad goes creazy with something as small as a wet smudge on the surface
[12:47] <sivang> zyga: ok, but when trying with the usb mouse it also won't work
[12:47] <sivang> zyga: not sure about the wetness, could be
[12:48] <zyga> sivang: that's because the touchpad constantly detects some movement in the random direction
[12:48] <zyga> I have the same issue in general, try wiping the touchpad with a dry cloth
[12:48] <zyga> s/the random/a random/
[02:13] <karim> hi
[02:13] <karim> is there a ppc channel ?
[02:19] <jbailey> karim: I don't think so.  It might be cool if there was one, though.  Are you interested in support or development?
[02:20] <karim> well that's a lot of time to invest, but if there is an official one I might be around often
[02:21] <karim> jbailey, so I could help fellow ppc ubuntu users
[02:21] <karim> and they could help me too :)
[02:22] <jbailey> I suspect that if you asked in #ubuntu for people interested in powerpc, and if they wanted a less noisy channel to talk in, you'd probably get some takers.
[02:23] <karim> there is #ubuntu-ppc but we are only three on it
[02:23] <jbailey> I know I hadn't heard about it, but I miss alot of things.
[02:24] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[02:25] <karim> jbailey, you are welcom on it :)
[02:28] <jbailey> karim: Probably not right now, but maybe after Breezy releases.
[02:31] <karim> jbailey, I still have the boot problem with the cmd646 not loading
[02:31] <karim> I am in the place where the mac is, so I can do some tests
[02:31] <karim> if you remember
[02:32] <mirak> I am mirak
[02:45] <siretart> nice. igor now building sparc packages :)
[03:07] <lamont> Removing jadetex ...
[03:07] <lamont> dirname: too few arguments
[03:07] <lamont> Try `dirname --help' for more information.
[03:07] <lamont> score!
[03:08] <bddebian> Uhm
[04:03] <lamont> was someone fixing libcaca?
[04:39] <mirak> libcaca ?
[04:39] <mirak> caca means poo
[04:42] <bddebian> heh
[04:43] <mirak> in french
[04:43] <mirak> libpoo
[05:27] <Diziet> Ah, hello Keybuk.  Are you really there ?  I'm just having a go at looking into 16133, the x-common file conflict.
[05:27] <Keybuk> yup, I'm here
[05:28] <Keybuk> what was the issue there?  file conflict on a directory?
[05:28] <Diziet> Were you around for the discussion yesterday ?
[05:28] <Diziet> Yes.
[05:28] <Keybuk> no, but I did take a brief look at it myself
[05:28] <Diziet> A contains a directory /foo.
[05:28] <Diziet> That is, xfonts-base contains /usr/lib/wossname/fonts
[05:29] <Diziet> But somehow /usr/lib/wossname/fonts has been made a symlink.  So /foo -> /bar.  This is fine.
[05:29] <Keybuk> I _think_ I fixed that in 1.13.11
[05:29] <Yagisan> jbailey: Test installs of Breezy Colony 5 in vmware 5 with both buslogic and lsilogic scsi work fine. It seems the bug is fixed
[05:29] <Diziet> Now if you install B which contains /foo -> /bar (x-common in this case), dpkg looks at /foo and says `it's a symlink'
[05:30] <Diziet> But it's trying to install a symlink.
[05:30] <Diziet> So that's two symlinks, a conflict.
[05:30] <Keybuk> oh, right
[05:30] <Keybuk> user-replaced-symlink-to-directory conflicting with a real symlink?
[05:31] <Diziet> I think that the right answer is if on the filesystem /foo -> /bar and /foo.new -> /bar2 where /bar2 and /bar are the same directory according to stat, it should be OK and treat it as a directory.
[05:31] <Diziet> keybuk: I think so.
[05:31] <Diziet> Where `user' = maintainer script.
[05:32] <Diziet> Oh, hold on, looking at the code I seem to be wrong.
[05:33] <Diziet> Anyway, I'll look at it now for a bit and see whether my hunch was right.
[05:35] <Keybuk> the odd thing is, if dpkg thinks it's a directory being overwritten by a non-directory, you get a different error
[05:35] <Keybuk> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/x-common_1.08_all.deb (--unpack):
[05:35] <Keybuk> trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/X11/fonts', which is also in package xfonts-base
[05:35] <Keybuk> suggests it doesn't think "/usr/lib/X11/fonts" is a directory or symlink-to-directory
[05:35] <Keybuk> I'd expect to see, instead
[05:36] <Keybuk> trying to overwrite directory `/usr/lib/X11/fonts' in package xfonts-base with nondirectory
[05:36] <Diziet> `existingdirectory' is 0.
[05:36] <Diziet> See archives.c near line 426.
[05:38] <Keybuk> should it be 0?
[05:38] <Diziet> No, I think it should be `.
[05:38] <Diziet> 1.
[05:38] <wasabi> great. mysqld is now segfaulting for me =(
[05:38] <Diziet> It uses lstat, not stat.
[05:38] <Keybuk> should that if statement under case SymbolicLink be doing a stat() call itself (like the Directory one) rather than re-using the lstat() value
[05:40] <Diziet> I think it should, yes.  I'm just writing code to do that now.
[05:40] <Diziet> It has to stat the putative link target, too.
[05:42] <Keybuk> I think just copying the lower if should do the trick, no?
[05:42] <Keybuk> do we need to readlink() it?
[05:42] <Diziet> No.  What we want is to see if the new link target (the one from the package) is the same as the one on the filesystem.
[05:43] <Keybuk> right
[05:44] <dholbach> hello
[05:48] <Keybuk> careful to make sure you don't break ordinary changing of symlink destination within the same package
[05:52] <eruin> sorry for dragging skeletons out of the closet, but what's happening wrt ubuntuforums mailing list access?
[05:54] <ogra> i'd vote for making it readonly for -devel....
[05:55] <\sh> ogra: second that
[05:58] <\sh> and can somebody explain why the ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net are not closed? I thought with introducing the official ubuntu backports team it should be closed
[05:59] <Diziet> keybuk: when this happens, dpkg has lost track of which package has the symlink.  They all have it listed in .list.
[05:59] <mjg59> Nngh.
[05:59] <mjg59> People are /msging me, and I can't reply
[05:59] <Diziet> Should it constantly make the symlink point to whatever the last package wants ?
[05:59] <mjg59> And they're not on any channels
[05:59] <\sh> mjg59: not registered? ,-)
[05:59] <mjg59> No
[06:00] <mjg59> Well, they're registered
[06:00] <mjg59> I'm not
[06:00] <\sh> mjg59: then do it ;) 
[06:00] <mjg59> \sh: No
[06:00] <ogra> \sh, hmm, i thought they wanted to keep it for the illegal stuff like w32codecs and decss
[06:00] <ogra> (hoary-extras)
[06:00] <\sh> ogra: but not for firefox?
[06:00] <siretart> ogra: they have taken these out
[06:00] <ogra> lol
[06:00] <mjg59> \sh: The solution to spam problems is to deal with the spammers, not reduce the functionality for everyone else
[06:00] <siretart> for 'legal' issues
[06:00] <Keybuk> Diziet: I don't think it should change it ... if it would have to change it, surely that _is_ a conflict?
[06:01] <ogra> yes, then the bakports stuff is pointless
[06:01] <Diziet> Yes, but if it points to the same place ?
[06:01] <\sh> mjg59: I know...that's why I'm against cloaking etc. but I registered my nick long ago :(
[06:01] <\sh> ogra: go and check #ubuntu-de and the forums and ubuntu-users ml 
[06:01] <Diziet> Replacing an absolute link with a relative one, perhaps, or two equivalent links some of whose components are themselves links.
[06:01] <Keybuk> leave it, I'd say
[06:01] <\sh> ogra: everything is full because of update problems from backports to ubuntu and vice versa...it's crap
[06:02] <ogra> \sh, yes, but thats a older ff backport, its about 2 months old
[06:02] <ogra> but i thought they wanted to shut down the normal backports...
[06:02] <\sh> ogra: doesn't matter...it's a main package after all, and they never check the functionality of updates for their packages
[06:03] <\sh> ogra: our backports are hoary-extras, right? and not ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net
[06:03] <ogra> \sh, poke Mez about it :)
[06:03] <ogra> nope, hoary-extras are things like freenx
[06:03] <\sh> ogra: sorry..but Mez can't help....I'll get my hands on jdong 
[06:03] <Diziet> Once you've got A containing /foo/wombat and B containing /foo -> /bar on your system, dpkg has forgotten which of A and B had a directory /foo and which the symlink.  So if you now reinstall B' /foo -> /bar2 then it's probably broken anyway.
[06:03] <\sh> ogra: which is official backports then?
[06:03] <ogra> \sh, try that
[06:03] <ogra> \sh, the ones that Mez does
[06:04] <Diziet> That means that if you have a symlink/directory muddle which appears in more than one package you have to use maintainer scripts to change the link target.
[06:04] <\sh> ogra: what was the source name for that? 
[06:04] <ogra> no idea, i never used them... look at the forums :p
[06:04] <\sh> eek
[06:04] <siretart> wow
[06:04] <ogra> i think he also sent a mail to -users
[06:05] <siretart> nautilus is using HUUUGE icons
[06:05] <ogra> siretart, accessibility feature ;)
[06:05] <\sh> ha...mitsushiko rocks
[06:06] <\sh> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/viewtopic.php?t=11948&highlight=backports
[06:06] <Keybuk> hmm, someone needs to fiddle with the TV at Interlagos ... the picture is terrible, lol
[06:06] <\sh> he posted my statement about backports
[06:07] <siretart> ogra: tell me, is this accessibility feature or bug: http://siretart.tauware.de/Bildschirmfoto.png
[06:08] <ogra> siretart, without looking i guess its a bug, i was kidding
[06:08] <siretart> hm
[06:08] <ogra> oh, looks like your icon theme is broken or librsvg has a bug
[06:08] <\sh> ogra: it's hoary-backports on archive.ubuntu.com
[06:08] <ogra> ah, ok
[06:09] <desrt> does anyone get the weird bug where the time indicator on battstat doesn't update when you plug your laptop into AC?
[06:09] <desrt> like the gnome-power trayicon for indication?
[06:10] <ogra> mjg59, kudos btw, since today my str is working again on the acer amd64 lappie (didnt upgrade the last two weeks) it was broken the whole dev cycle :)
[06:12] <Diziet> keybuk: Did you know that this build system doesn't notice when your code doesn't compile ?
[06:12] <Keybuk> the debian/rules stuff?
[06:12] <mjg59> ogra: Cool
[06:12] <Diziet> ../../src/archives.c:467: error: too few arguments to function 'linktosameexistingdir'
[06:12] <Diziet> make[3] : *** [archives.o]  Error 1
[06:12] <Diziet> make[3] : Leaving directory `/slash/ubuntu/work/dpkg-1.13.10ubuntu3/build-tree/src'
[06:12] <Diziet> Making all in dselect
[06:13] <Keybuk> odd
[06:14] <Diziet> Blimey.  Read the toplevel Makefile.in, near line 365.
[06:14] <Diziet> _Automake_ ignores errors.
[06:14] <Keybuk> shouldn't do ...
[06:15] <Diziet> Obviously it _shouldn't_.  It was clearly written by YET MORE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T WRITE SHELL SCRIPTS !
[06:15] <Diziet> When I am EPDFL you'll have to get a special licence to write shell scripts.
[06:16] <Keybuk> looks ok to me here ?
[06:16] <Diziet> list='$(SUBDIRS)'; for subdir in $$list; do 
[06:17] <Keybuk> processarc.c: In function process_archive:
[06:17] <Keybuk> processarc.c:138: error: BUG undeclared (first use in this function)
[06:17] <Keybuk> make[2] : *** [processarc.o]  Error 1
[06:17] <Keybuk> make[2] : Leaving directory `/home/scott/co/debian/dpkg-1.13/src'
[06:17] <Keybuk> make[1] : *** [all-recursive]  Error 1
[06:17] <Keybuk> make[1] : Leaving directory `/home/scott/co/debian/dpkg-1.13'
[06:17] <Keybuk> make: *** [all]  Error 2
[06:20] <Keybuk> hmm, the Makefile.in in the ubuntu package is different to mine
[06:20] <Diziet> Maybe you have a fixed automake.
[06:20] <Keybuk> in fact ... the one in the Ubuntu package is missing the "|| exit 1" :p
[06:21] <sabdfl> greetings earthlings
[06:21] <Diziet> Hello.
[06:21] <Diziet> Interestingly if I debian/rules build on breezy it DTRT.
[06:21] <ogra> sabdfl, !
[06:21] <sabdfl> hey all
[06:22] <Keybuk> looks like Eric has been playing "apply random patches" again
[06:22] <sabdfl> i'm doing a breezy update, seems you guys have been busy
[06:22] <Diziet> We can't let your computer stay not-out-of-date :-).
[06:22] <\sh> sabdfl: who was the "holiday"? ,-)
[06:22] <\sh> s/who/how/
[06:24] <Diziet> OK.  My patch makes the error message go away.
[06:24] <Diziet> Let me see if a dist-upgrade falls over in a heap.
[06:24] <sabdfl> \sh: the "holiday" was cute, thanks ;-)
[06:24] <Keybuk> ah yes, dist-upgrade, the dpkg debugger's friend
[06:24] <Keybuk> I always make sure I'm a little out of date before hacking too
[06:24] <Diziet> :-)
[06:25] <\sh> hmmm..something seems wrong with the update-manager
[06:26] <Diziet> Seems to be working.
[06:26] <Diziet> So, should I (a) just upload it, (b) have you eyeball the diff and upload it, (c) post a message to ubuntu-devel and wait until Monday ?
[06:27] <\sh> working yes..but after downloading the packages and installing the paackages there is this strange changelog window..and it's disappearing to fast somehow
[06:27] <Diziet> Damn, I forgot LANG=C.
[06:27] <mjg59> I think we should adopt a strategy of "break early, break often"
[06:27] <Keybuk> I'll look through the diff if you like
[06:27] <\sh> so after downloading and before installing the packages i mean ;)
[06:28] <Keybuk> otherwise you may wish to check with mdz before uploading *shrug*
[06:28] <Keybuk> I think the Colony restrictions are released now though
[06:28] <Keybuk> (he says breaking udev again)
[06:28] <Diziet> keybuk: Yes, there's an announcement about Colony.
[06:28] <Diziet> I've still got that xscreensaver file conflict.
[06:29] <Diziet> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/xscreensaver-data_4.21-4ubuntu14_i386.deb (--unpack):
[06:29] <Diziet>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man1/xscreensaver-getimage.1.gz', which is also in package xscreensaver
[06:29] <Diziet> But I don't think that's due to my patch.
[06:30] <Keybuk> what version of xscreensaver you got installed?
[06:30] <mjg59> xscreensaver-data probably doesn't declare the right relationships to older xscreensaver packages
[06:30] <Keybuk> Replaces: xscreensaver (<= 4.21-4ubuntu10)
[06:31] <Keybuk> oh, ogra's trying to revert the split
[06:31] <Diziet> Joy :-).
[06:31] <Diziet> Hmm, error message has gone away.
[06:31] <Diziet> Fine.
[06:31] <Diziet> That's why it's called a prerelease, I suppose.
[06:31] <ogra> Keybuk, i didnt change anything...
[06:31] <Keybuk> ogra: yeah, just noticed that was Monday
[06:32] <ogra> and it would be silly to revert the split, we'll split even more for dapper to only ship the screensavers we want
[06:33] <Keybuk> heh
[06:33] <Keybuk> xscreensaver (4.21-4ubuntu14) breezy; urgency=low
[06:33] <Keybuk>   * reverted the split
[06:33] <Keybuk>  -- Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:29:05 +0200
[06:33] <Keybuk> :p
[06:34] <ogra> that was anothe split, i had made a xscreensaver-utils package for the 4 tools the hacks need
[06:34] <Keybuk> I think that Replaces version needs increasing at a guess
[06:34] <ogra> but Kamion and mdz oppsed that, so i included them in the -data package
[06:34] <ogra> yup
[06:35] <ogra> will fix it today
[06:35] <Diziet> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/dpkg-symlink-to-dir-conflict.diff
[06:36] <Diziet> xscreensaver-fungible.
[06:37] <ogra> heh
[06:37] <Keybuk> Diziet: looks ok to me
[06:37] <Diziet> So do you have an opinion about (b) vs (c) ?
[06:38] <slomo> lamont / infinity: can someone of you kick a rebuild of ikvm on x86 and ppc? should work now without problems... or shall i upload a build2?
[06:38] <Keybuk> I'd do b
[06:38] <Keybuk> if you're sure it's not going to break anything <g>
[06:38] <Diziet> Pretty sure.  As sure as I'm going to get without doing a whole test upgrade with it.
[06:39] <Keybuk> can you test a single package with v1 and v2 containing a symlink of the same name, but pointing to different places?
[06:39] <Keybuk> I'm not sure whether your patch doesn't break that
[06:41] <lamont> slomo: please don't upload something that has no need.
[06:41] <lamont> slomo: given back
[06:42] <slomo> lamont: that's why i ask... so you can give back also packages which built on one architecture and failed on others?
[06:43] <lamont> if it previously failed, but will build now without changes, then we can give it back
[06:45] <slomo> lamont: i hope it builds now... it works without problems in my pbuilder and the buildlog looked like a nant problem... new nant was uploaded a few minutes before ikvm
[06:48] <Diziet> keybuk: Willdo.  Pointing to different directories or different files ?
[06:48] <Keybuk> both
[06:48] <Keybuk> or starting pointing to a directory, and ending up pointing at a file
[06:48] <Keybuk> I think those all work now
[06:50] <bddebian> elmo: ping?
[06:52] <slomo> lamont: please remove service-discovery-applet from NEW
[06:54] <Diziet> keybuk: Yes, it seems to work nicely.
[06:55] <Diziet> Oh, did you notice that I didn't mark the two error strings as translateable.  Do you agree ?
[06:55] <Keybuk> meh, I haven't made my mind up on that yet
[06:56] <Keybuk> I think it's a symptom of lazy translators, I think
[06:57] <Diziet> I think they do have a point.  If you're going to understand what `failed to stat (dereference) proposed new symlink target `some file' for symlink `some other file': Input/output error   means then you're going to understand it in English too.
[06:57] <Diziet> And indeed you'd be better off with that than some half-baked mush that a translator is likely to make of it.
[06:58] <Keybuk> the trouble is, in that example, Input/output error _will_ be translated
[06:58] <Keybuk> because libc error messages get translated
[06:58] <Diziet> That's fine - that's the bit you might figure out :-).
[06:58] <Diziet> `My disk is buggered'.
[07:01] <Diziet> Or is there some reason why mixed-language messages are considered evil ?
[07:01] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[07:01] <lool> Hi, does someone has a debian/rules snipset to specialize a Debian package for Ubuntu?
[07:02] <bddebian> lool: They are the same
[07:02] <lool> bddebian: no I really mean what I said :)
[07:02] <ogra> lool, just make sure the build-deps are right and the changelog contains breezy as distro
[07:02] <lool> I'm a Debian package maintainer and would like to ifdef a change that I can't include right now in Debian
[07:03] <lool> ogra: I need to run some code conditionally
[07:03] <Diziet> Oh, you mean you want to say `if being built for Ubuntu' ?
[07:03] <lool> yes!
[07:03] <Diziet> There's no way to do that.
[07:04] <lool> I've read some things like that in a list; so I thought someone would have a snipset
[07:04] <lool> such as cat /etc/... release
[07:04] <ogra> lsb-release -a ?
[07:04] <lool> is there a /etc/ubuntu_version?
[07:04] <Diziet> No, because you might compile on Debian for Ubuntu or vice-versa (at least when debugging - of course the Ubuntu and Debian build daemons all use their own distro).
[07:04] <ogra> lool, we use lsb-release
[07:04] <lool> ogra: I'd prefer avoiding new build-deps for the test
[07:04] <ogra> err s/-/_/
[07:05] <ogra> there is no /etc/ubuntu_version
[07:05] <Diziet> What's the change that you want to conditionally apply ?
[07:05] <lool> Diziet: you don't want to know, but trust me :)
[07:06] <Diziet> Tell us anyway :-).
[07:06] <Diziet> So we can say `oh, no, you don't want to do that ...', as you seem to be expecting :-).
[07:07] <Diziet> Sod it, I'm not going through any more of these old dpkg bugs to find any Debian BTS bug that's relevant to this diff.
[07:08] <lool> ogra: ah found it, lsb_release indeed
[07:08] <lool> http://lists.debian.org/deity/2005/08/msg00002.html
[07:10] <lool> Diziet: this is to conditionally build a gstreamer package, and calls a debian/control generation script; the reason I wouldn't tell is because it's rapidly frowned upon to generate the control, but in this particular case, it isn't done in "clean", but in a manual rule, so it's ok
[07:10] <Diziet> Oh, if it's an a manual rule then it probably doesn't matter if it's flakey.
[07:11] <lool> exactly, and I'm just thinking that I won't need a build-dep since it's not used during (re)build
[07:12] <ogra> i'd just do a check if /bin/lsb_release exists and inside that a /bin/lsb_release -a without adding it as build dep. its a reverse dependency of ubuntu-minimal ... 
[07:12] <Diziet> You should have a build-dep iff the gstreamer needs some extra stuff.
[07:12] <Diziet> Or do you mean a build-dep on some lsb package ?  No, you don't want that.
[07:12] <ogra> so you can be pretty sure its there on *every* ubuntu system
[07:13] <slomo> lamont: can you remove smlnj from dep-wait?
[07:13] <lool> pff lsb-release pulls pax, lsb*, alien
[07:14] <lool> Diziet: the external script replaces the build-deps and adds a package declaration to debian/control in this case
[07:14] <Diziet> Right.
[07:14] <lool> it was written to permit building of gstreamer-lame to end-user
[07:15] <ogra> Diziet, pfft
[07:16] <lool> can someone tell me if lsb_release -i -s returns "Ubuntu" or ubuntu?
[07:16] <Diziet> ogra: :-P
[07:16] <ogra> :)
[07:16] <dholbach> Ubuntu
[07:16] <lool> thanks
[07:16] <Diziet> TTFN people.  Thanks, Keybuk.
[07:17] <ogra> Diziet, enjoy your weekend :)
[07:30] <lool> I can't find gstreamer0.8-mms on packages.ubuntu.com, does someone have it installed?
[07:58] <jaldhar> is it too late to get any changes into Breezy
[08:00] <jaldhar> never mind, it seems Breezy already has the right package version.
[08:02] <Keybuk> if only all requests were so easy :p
[08:16] <slomo> lool: gstreamer0.8-mms will be added soon afaik
[08:17] <ogra> does packages.ubuntu.com include multiverse ?
[08:18] <slomo> ogra: yes
[08:29] <slomo> lamont / infinity: please remove smlnj from dep-wait for ppc :)
[09:27] <gouchi> Hi
[09:27] <gouchi> I was wandering if a project about a Music Video about Ubuntu has been started ?
[09:28] <dholbach> haha, like the QT one? :)
[09:28] <dholbach> let's think about the stars featuring in there :)
[09:28] <gouchi> dunno about QT :)
[09:28] <gouchi> it would be great I think 
[09:29] <gouchi> and add it to the distro as goodies
[09:29] <dholbach> http://ktown.kde.org/~hausmann/qt4dance_medium.ogg
[09:29] <gouchi> as ubuntu-calendar, ubuntu-sound
[09:29] <gouchi> a new package will arrive ubuntu-video :)
[09:30] <dholbach> it's an excellent idea - who do you want to dance on the screen?
[09:30] <gouchi> maybe a 3D character ? like the one with the mask 
[09:31] <dholbach> you weren' talking about real people?
[09:31] <bob2> there are videos of the warty and hoary dances
[09:31] <gouchi> bob2 : which one ?
[09:32] <gouchi> dholback : if some want :)
[09:32] <gouchi> dholback : lol
[09:33] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img049.jpeg
[09:33] <ogra> gouchi, ^^^
[09:33] <gouchi> :)
[09:33] <dholbach> that was great :)
[09:34] <gouchi> or clip video that explains the ubuntu philosophy
[09:34] <shackan_> dholbach, I wish I hadn't opened that url ..
[09:34] <gouchi> I thing I gonna post on the forum so that people makes some idea
[09:35] <dholbach> shackan_: what's wrong - the song won't leave you all day?
[09:36] <shackan_> dholbach, it's just disturbing :D
[09:36] <dholbach> shackan_: just a bit :)
[09:37] <ogra> shackan_, dholbach *loves* distrubing songs that dont leave you for 2 weeks ;) 
[09:37] <dholbach> hahaha
[09:37] <ogra> *g*
[09:37] <ogra> grrr
[09:50] <dholbach> apart from that we had jdub TV! already :)
[10:29] <Hfuy> Evening all.
[10:30] <Hfuy> This was given as the "team channel" for the Ubuntu laptop team. Am I in the right place?
[10:31] <dholbach> i suppose so
[10:32] <Hfuy> I just discovered that #ubuntu-laptop exists.
[10:32] <Hfuy> I presume the website -should- point me there.
[10:33] <dholbach> oh
[10:33] <Hfuy> Anyway.
[10:33] <Hfuy> I have here a Toshiba Satellite SP10-304, which has just had a new hard drive.
[10:34] <Hfuy> I've tried putting Red Hat Enterprise on it, with horrible results.
[10:34] <Hfuy> Will Ubunto do things like easily support the widescreen LCD, and allow the laptop to suspend when I close the lid?
[10:34] <Hfuy> Red Hat seems singularly unable to do these things.
[10:35] <dholbach> was there anything on the wiki?
[10:35] <Hfuy> which wiki
[10:36] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com
[10:36] <Hfuy> Cor, a wiki!
[10:36] <Hfuy> But nothing for Toshiba SP10
[10:37] <Hfuy> Or "suspend to disk" or "suspend to RAM" or "hibernate"
[10:37] <Hfuy> It's not looking good, really, is it.
[10:38] <Hfuy> What's "Hoary"
[10:38] <dholbach> our last release
[10:38] <Hfuy> Apparently ACPI with suspend to disk or ram and detection of a laptop's "sleep" button is in Hoary.
[10:39] <Hfuy> How would I go about getting it, if I wanted it?
[10:39] <lamont> Hfuy: follow the links from www.ubuntu.com
[10:40] <Hfuy> What's it like with widescreen displays?
[10:40] <lamont> Note that this is more of a #ubuntu discussion... this channel is for discussing ongoing development stuff
[10:40] <Hfuy> Goddammit, any time I get into a useful conversation someone tells me to stop.
[10:41] <Hfuy> #ubuntu is so busy it's impossible to follow. Please, bear with me?
[10:41] <Hfuy> It's also a #ubuntu-laptop discussion and I'm happy to take it there.
[10:53] <zenwhen> hey
[11:03] <slomo> mjg59: do you have some time to read a license? is this multiverse-compatible? http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mosml-0509241220/mosml-2.01/debian/copyright
[11:10] <mjg59> slomo: Looks fine
[11:10] <zenwhen> nice
[11:11] <zenwhen> my sound doesnt work in breezy
[11:11] <zenwhen> and i cant mount my usb hard drive ine breezy
[11:11] <zenwhen> in*
[11:12] <slomo> mjg59: even the "Caml Light, version 0.7" license?
[11:15] <mjg59> slomo: It's non-free, but should be fine for multiverse
[11:16] <slomo> mjg59: ok, thanks :)
[11:52] <dholbach> good night everybody, sleep tight