[12:37] <kerinin> i'm interested in setting up a classroom full of computers in an underprivileged international school (to be used for ESL) - can anyone point me to some resources?  my current approach is to put edubuntu on a server and connect 20+ monitors/keyboards as X hosts to the central host.  my goal is to get as many terminals installed as cheaply as possible.   
[12:37] <kerinin> ideas?
[12:53] <magnon> well, edubuntu is surely a good start :-)
[12:55] <magnon> clients can probably be found from businesses who want to get rid of old machines, they save money by giving them away to you
[12:56] <magnon> the server seems to be harder to find "for free", so that's often an investment
[01:21] <magnon> http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535
[01:21] <magnon> wrong channel :p
[01:22] <shaga> :)
[01:22] <magnon> politics don't belong here
[01:25] <kerinin> thanks guys!
[01:26] <magnon> kerinin: just drop by any time if you need help
[01:26] <magnon> european daytime is best though I guess :P
[01:26] <kerinin> right now i'm trying to find used thin clients, apparently a company called wyse used to make them, and you can get them for about 10USD
[05:10] <mpm2> hello all; I've been following the edubuntu project and am interested in making it happen in my classroom; I'm a 2nd grade teacher and currently have about 15 machines in my class, most of which are running Ubuntu (Hoary).  Are most of you developers or teachers or ??  should I join the mailing list or is it very technical?  The Edubuntu Testing page says after install to "try netboot" on one of your clients... How do I set up cl
[05:10] <mpm2> kind of a windy hello!  I thought I might just say hello, but better to get to the heart of my questions :-)
[07:09] <xuniluser> so silenet here...
[07:09] <xuniluser> silent
[07:13] <jsgotangco> hi
[07:16] <xuniluser> hello
[07:40] <jsgotangco> xuniluser, its not so silent after all then :)
[07:47] <shaga> nope
[07:47] <xuniluser> jsgotangco: ok... but passive... anyways, when will be the official release of ubuntu
[07:52] <jsgotangco> oct. 13
[07:53] <xuniluser> hmmmmm ok... 2 weeks to go. hehehehe.... we badly needed edubuntu and were praying that it will answer our needs in the laboratory
[07:54] <xuniluser> we are removing all windows in our university...
[08:22] <jsgotangco> have you tried the preview/daily build?
[08:23] <xuniluser> hmmm not yet... i do it
[08:24] <jsgotangco> by getting the preview/daily build, you'll have an idea how it works
[08:27] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: is it true that oct 13 is mdz's birthday?
[08:28] <jsgotangco> highvoltage, no idea, sure is great if its his birthday that day
[09:02] <JaneW> yes mdz's birthday is Oct 13 ;)
[09:18] <Zaheer> hello, hello :)
[09:18] <Seveas> /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list
[09:19] <Seveas> hmm
[09:19] <Seveas> odd, the '/' is a command :)
[09:22] <Zaheer> can anyone tell what exactly is in language-pack-kde-en-base and how big it is... cause my install has been sitting there for last 20mins or so just installing that package..
[09:54] <poningru> Seveas: dude you put something infront of the /
[09:54] <poningru>  /
[10:49] <JaneW> ogra: ping
[10:49] <ogra> JaneW, pong
[10:50] <JaneW> ogra: did you see mdz's e-mail to me? I guess the LOTR patch is a moot point now...
[10:50] <ogra> JaneW, it always was :) flint just didnt get it :)
[10:50] <JaneW> ogra: I have several more e-mails from flint, but I think it's best to let him dig his own hole here...
[10:51] <ogra> JaneW, and sorry, but sabdfl set my new highes prio to xscreensaver again...
[10:51] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/xss.html
[10:51] <ogra> ^^^ have to finish this first :/
[10:51] <JaneW> ogra: ok so g-s-s is out then?
[10:51] <ogra> since more than a week, but xss needs heavy (time consuming) changes
[10:52] <JaneW> good
[10:52] <JaneW> more than a week?
[10:52] <ogra> (the two buttons on the right are a mess to implement)
[10:52] <JaneW> oh wait was x the new one sabdfl wanted?
[10:52] <JaneW> so sabdfl doesn;t want to revert then?
[10:52] <ogra> err, quite exactly after the TB meeting... not exactly a week
[10:53] <JaneW> ok I'm confussed
[10:53] <ogra> sabdfl just wants the lock dialog to look like that, he doesnt care which screensaver app we use
[10:53] <JaneW> Gnome was the new one, but we have reverted BACK to x right?
[10:53] <jsgotangco> yeah
[10:53] <ogra> the problem is, gss doesnt work righ yet
[10:53] <shaga> I'm trying something here at work, on lame windows machine. could someone from us try to connect to this? ftp://shag.ath.cx
[10:53] <ogra> and xss is missing the lock dialog
[10:53] <JaneW> ok, I'm with you
[10:54] <shaga> s/us/u.s.
[10:54] <JaneW> ogra: how hard is it to get in?
[10:54] <ogra> i hope it takes me less then a week :(
[10:54] <ogra> its really hard to get something into code that is written to prevent *any* addition
[10:55] <ogra> the xss author sees it as a security feature that nothing can get added
[10:55] <JaneW> hmmm
[10:55] <ogra> stealing time...
[10:55] <JaneW> why are you responsible for the screensaver stuff?
[10:56] <ogra> because i cared for it since the end of warty, it was my entry point into ubuntu
[10:56] <ogra> nobody knows the code as good as i do... sabdfl knows that
[10:57] <ogra> i guess others would take twice as long to get into it
[10:58] <ogra> its very hard to understand and written in a very odd way... additionally missing a lot of code comments
[10:59] <JaneW> ok
[10:59] <JaneW> have you spoken to sabdfl at all recently?
[10:59] <JaneW> I need to get an answer on the edubuntu CD issue
[10:59] <ogra> saturday
[10:59] <ogra> but only about xss tuff
[10:59] <JaneW> i.e. are we or aren;t we going to press some for the launch...
[10:59] <ogra> he should be back from holiday today
[11:00] <JaneW> I think he will be in the CT offices tomorrow, I will see if I can catch him
[11:00] <JaneW> he is apparently in CT
[11:00] <JaneW> I am at home today, so I am not sure if he is there...
[11:00] <ogra> ah, good
[11:00] <ogra> he'll be in #c if he is around i guess
[11:01] <jsgotangco> ogra, good luck i'll just bug you before the week ends
[11:01] <ogra> ok
[11:02] <JaneW> ogra: and edubuntu dev in general, did we get a good CD build for the w/e?
[11:03] <ogra> i havent tested it yet, but it looks ok... (have the iso here, will do a test install today)
[11:03] <JaneW> will we be ready for 13 Oct?
[11:04] <jsgotangco> i tried the once last saturday and it installed fine
[11:04] <ogra> yeah
[11:05] <ogra> JaneW, it gets a bit tight now, i didnt plan this much time for xss
[11:05] <ogra> but still doable...
[11:06] <ogra> we still have 12942, the progress reporting in the installer for ltsp installation is still missing and autogeneration if the dchp.conf file in ltsp isnt done yet (mdz knows) i had to spend my weekend with xss...
[11:07] <ogra> the dhcp stuff is trivial... but will need testing
[11:07] <ogra> worst case we could go withoit the progress reporting, it just looks odd...
[11:08] <JaneW> progess reporting?
[11:08] <ogra> 12942 is a thing i guess i have to poke jbailey more about
[11:09] <ogra> the installer builds the ltsp environment in the first stage before first reboot
[11:09] <ogra> it takes between 5 and 10 min
[11:09] <ogra> there is a progres bar, but that jumps to 50% after 2min and then to 100% at the very end...
[11:09] <ogra> so users dont really see progress
[11:10] <ogra> its cosmetic, but you could think that the install stopped...
[11:10] <JaneW> oic, yes could be confussing and frustrating
[11:10] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:10] <jsgotangco> unless they go to vt1
[11:10] <ogra> worst case i'll rip out the progress completely and just write on the screen please wait 10min until ltsp is done
[11:10] <jsgotangco> or somewhere
[11:10] <JaneW> ogra: that's could work
[11:11] <jsgotangco> vt4 i mean
[11:11] <JaneW> that
[11:11] <JaneW> ogra: just do that if there's no time to do something more elegant
[11:11] <ogra> its not nice and its not what i want, but its a fallback
[11:11] <ogra> yup
[11:11] <JaneW> ogra: at least ppl know what to expect then, and what's going on
[11:11] <jsgotangco> we can add it as a known issue
[11:12] <ogra> oh and i need to fix some gcompris bugs, but thats done in an afternoon... nothing really time consuming
[11:17] <JaneW> ok
[11:24] <JaneW> bye
[11:24] <ogra> i dont go away :) 
[11:25] <ogra> i'm just playing with screen locking so i'll see more of my locked screen than from xchat ;)
[11:32] <jsgotangco> the aim is to make it look like g-s-s?
[11:45] <ogra> jsgotangco, yup
[11:45] <ogra> which requires the full username and two additional buttons beside the cosmetic changes
[11:46] <ogra> adding buttons isnt easy here.... (adding them is, but making them functional is a PITA)
[11:46] <jsgotangco> ickkk from what i've heard before x-s-s isn't really comment friendly
[11:46] <ogra> see my mockup from above
[12:40] <Zaheer> hi can i ask a question about the gpl here?
[12:42] <JaneW> zaheer: ok
[12:43] <Zaheer> thanks :D
[12:43] <Zaheer> here goes
[12:44] <Zaheer> Lets say for example i have written a piece of software that i
[12:44] <Zaheer> distribute on a cd for a small fee, can i put any software released under
[12:44] <Zaheer> gnu gpl on there aswell and still charge for my software. I am not
[12:44] <Zaheer> charging for the open source software but for my software only.
[12:44] <Zaheer> .. am i in any violation of the gpl at all???
[12:44] <JaneW> er....
[12:45] <JaneW> I am certainly no expert
[12:45] <JaneW> but as I understand it OSS doesn;t have to be free of charge...
[12:46] <Zaheer> i realize that... although i dont want i feel it takes away the goodeness from oss
[12:46] <jsgotangco> yes
[12:46] <Zaheer> so i am in violation, could you explain in which way please.
[12:46] <jsgotangco> no you're not
[12:46] <Zaheer> oh :D
[12:46] <jsgotangco> you just sell your software right
[12:47] <Zaheer> yes.
[12:47] <jsgotangco> it was writeen from scratch by you?
[12:47] <Zaheer> yes.
[12:47] <jsgotangco> becuase if you pulled some sources from gpl'ed source, you're bound to the gpl as well
[12:47] <Zaheer> yes i am aware of that.
[12:48] <jsgotangco> why not just ship your own software separately?
[12:49] <Zaheer> let me explain i have an apllication the writes out quotations to a text file and in order for the user to ship that text file in non editable format i thort i can distribute pdf-creator with my software to allow the user to print the quotes to a pdf.
[01:00] <Zaheer> am still allowed to do that?
[01:58] <Zaheer> is there a problem with the terminal services client in edubuntu?? everytime i connect to a TS and close the connection an error message pops up.
[02:00] <Zaheer> the error message : "NOT IMPLEMENTED : System pointer message 0x7f00"
[02:02] <ogra> where do you get this message ? 
[02:12] <Zaheer> after i closed the TS Session using the "x"
[02:13] <ogra> using the x ??
[02:14] <raoulduke> hi all.
[02:14] <ogra> Zaheer, you talk abut a ltsp client ??
[02:15] <ogra> hi raoulduke 
[02:17] <raoulduke> so, anyone here using the preview release in an educational setting currently?
[02:17] <ogra> raoulduke, jelkner uses it in a school already...
[02:18] <raoulduke> jelkner isn't in the # right now, and I didn't want to be presumptuous and email him
[02:18] <ogra> the rest of users are rather testing in a lab environment
[02:18] <raoulduke> but if he were here, I'd want to talk to him.
[02:18] <ogra> he is in a US timezone and not around very often (since he's teacher and has work to do)
[02:19] <raoulduke> I'm about to be cursed with numerous machines of various manufacture and mhz and was told to put XP on them. I can't maintain a single install image for that, so I'm going edubuntu (already running ubuntu as a client around the school---)
[02:19] <raoulduke> I'm a US east coast teacher too.
[02:19] <raoulduke> perhaps I'll just email him then, and let him answer on his own time.
[02:19] <ogra> ah, great
[02:19] <raoulduke> I'm actually teaching one class using his ThinkCSpy book
[02:19] <raoulduke> (how to think like a computer scientist, python edition, co-authored by jeff elkner)
[02:19] <ogra> i dont think you will disturb him if you mail him
[02:20] <raoulduke> thanks ogra
[02:20] <raoulduke> I'll be back later. other nicks I use are vmarks and vincenzio- see those? it's still me.
[02:20] <ogra> if you got specific technical questions, feel free to poke me :)
[02:20] <ogra> hmm, to late
[02:38] <Zaheer> Yagisan - thanks for your help on friday.. well to all those who made a contribution :)
[02:38] <Zaheer> although im still having difficulity installing the vmtools any ideas to get me going?
[03:08] <Yagisan> Zaheer: No worries
[03:08] <Yagisan> I haven't got on on to vmtools yet - I just had two machines die :(
[03:10] <Yagisan> what specific feature of vmtools do you need ?
[03:12] <Zaheer> well i cant install it .. i mount the cd but i cant run any scripts to start installing vmware normally there that install.pl script but its not there.
[03:46] <Zaheer> just another question about the gpl :D if i may? i promise this will be the last.
[03:46] <Zaheer> or even better is the a chat room i can go to for information about the gpl?
[03:49] <magnon> just ask away
[03:50] <magnon> I know a fair bit, I'll answer as good as I can
[03:52] <Zaheer> cool :) does the gpl infect other lics in a distribution? for example if i have a software packges that has lic1 and another with the gpl
[03:52] <Zaheer> is it  then required of me to release the software in lic1 under the gpl as well? 
[03:53] <Zaheer> they both on the same cd?
[03:54] <mpt> Zaheer: no.
[03:55] <mpt> For example, Ubuntu contains some software under the GPL and some under other licenses.
[03:56] <ogra> Zaheer, if you take software thats under gpl and improve it, you are forced to release this work under gpl... but thats all
[03:56] <ogra> (if you consider releasing it)
[03:56] <mpt> Zaheer: see the last paragraph of section 2.
[04:00] <Zaheer> ok 2secs :) ..going to read.
[04:01] <Zaheer> In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program
[04:01] <Zaheer> with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of
[04:01] <Zaheer> a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under
[04:01] <Zaheer> the scope of this License.
[04:01] <Zaheer> aaahhh :D
[04:01] <jkrogh> ogra: It there anything special about the kernel in the chroot-environment? Or is it the seme kernel that's used everywehre else? 
[04:02] <ogra> its absolutely the same...
[04:02] <Zaheer> thanks guys and/or girls.
[04:02] <ogra> see the ltsp-update-kernels script ;)
[04:02] <ogra> (its run by ltsp-build-client)
[04:04] <Zaheer> what makes edubuntu different from ubuntu?
[04:04] <ogra> in fact you got three identical kernels on your system after install (at least in edubuntu)
[04:04] <ogra> one in /boot, one in your tftpboot and one in /opt/ltsp
[04:05] <shaga> Zaheer: ltsp-system, artwork, educational tools imho :p
[04:05] <shaga> but I'm sure I don't know it all
[04:05] <shaga> installation as well
[04:05] <ogra> Zaheer, ltsp by default, edu apps, schooltool preinstalled, (moodle will follow up before release), artwork and a bunch of different defualt settings
[04:05] <shaga> a bit
[04:06] <shaga> ogra: I didn't forget much from my experience then ;)
[04:06] <ogra> nope :=
[04:06] <ogra> )
[04:07] <ogra> in fact you'll get the same with a default breezy install to hich you add edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop
[04:08] <Zaheer> about the artwork ... ITS REALLY COOL!!! i like the whole kiddie look although the firefox icon looks alot like the gimp :D
[04:08] <ogra> s/hitch/whitch
[04:08] <ogra> Zaheer, thanks :)
[04:11] <JaneW> ogra:  I must switch to edubuntu soon...
[04:12] <ogra> JaneW, do you have breezy already ? 
[04:12] <JaneW> ogra: I haven't been brave enough yet *blush*
[04:12] <JaneW> ogra: no I mostly use hoary
[04:12] <JaneW> I have an OLD (late June) ver of Breezy, but it has no sound
[04:12] <JaneW> other than that it is just like hoary
[04:12] <ogra> JaneW, just update to breezy and put edubuntu-desktop on top... then you got the workstation version :)
[04:13] <JaneW> :)
[04:13] <JaneW> ogra: not really ;)
[05:20] <highvoltage> hi ogra
[05:20] <ogra> hi highvoltage 
[05:21] <highvoltage> do you know if anyone has had problems using the lts.conf file?
[05:22] <highvoltage> i edited it at a school today, while playing with edubuntu from my laptop, and when i used a fairly standard lts.conf file, the clients' keyboards stops working just after ldm starts.
[05:22] <highvoltage> (sorry if that doesn't make sense- long day)
[05:22] <shaga> I haven't had a chance to use ltsp
[05:23] <shaga> actually I don't even know anything about it
[05:23] <highvoltage> even with a very small lts.conf file, the keyboards freeze when ldm starts, and it doesn't seem that the resolutions/settings chage.
[05:23] <shaga> only how to conf installtion of edubuntu
[05:23] <ogra> highvoltage, there was a mail in edubuntu-devel iirc it was fom rickfitz
[05:23] <shaga> for it
[05:25] <ogra> highvoltage, sorry, i havent got time this week to debug much, mark set xscreensaver to my highest proirity... that takes a lot of time
[05:28] <highvoltage> ogra: no problemo.
[05:29] <highvoltage> i wish i could generate more time. i've never overcommitted myself as far as i've done right now. it's very scary.
[05:32] <ogra> same here... xscreensaver hacking wasnt on my schedule at all
[05:37] <spacey> poor ogra, crappy screensaver stuff ;(
[05:38] <ogra> nah, its fun i love to do it... its just that i havent got the time for such stuff at all
[06:01] <mpt> ogra: Did you nuke the "Someone else" button?
[06:02] <ogra> mpt, http://www.grawert.net/xss.html
[06:02] <ogra> but jdub pokes that i use "switch user"
[06:03] <ogra> and it will take me ages to implement the other two buttons... its totally not in my time schedule, but sabdfl wont accept it without
[06:03] <mpt> ogra: wow, that's awesome
[06:03] <mpt> oh, it's a mockup? :-)
[06:03] <magnon> ogra: I agree with "Switch User"
[06:04] <ogra> so after it took me this afternoon to shuffle around the existing elements, it will take me a week o implement the new buttons :/
[06:04] <ogra> mpt, yup
[06:04] <ogra> but all existing pieces are in place now, i'm just starting to add new elements
[06:04] <mpt> btw, "Account" should end with "...", and "Ok" should be "OK" (or "Unlock")
[06:05] <ogra> mpt, i think i want a clear wording first what to use for the button...
[06:05] <ogra> (account or user)
[06:05] <magnon> ogra: User is, imo, more correct
[06:05] <ogra> else i'll just call it switch... :p
[06:05] <magnon> "Account" isn't concrete
[06:05] <magnon> account is your bank account, computer account, mail account, etc.
[06:06] <mpt> magnon: It's less correct, because a single user can have multiple accounts
[06:06] <magnon> "User" is the person who sits at the keyboard
[06:06] <magnon> exactly
[06:06] <ogra> magnon, thats something i leave for my boss to decide...
[06:06] <ogra> or for a discussion between jdub and mpt :)
[06:06] <magnon> ogra: FYI, a translation to Norwegian with "User" would be totally correct
[06:07] <magnon> whereas "Account" would be very abstract
[06:07] <ogra> its not translateable anyway
[06:08] <magnon> oh :P
[06:08] <ogra> the code prevents loading of anything not contained in the code...