[12:13] <mbreit> good night everybody
[12:22] <dholbach> good night everybody, i'm off to bed
[12:22] <crimsun> cya daniel
[12:23] <dholbach> bye daniel :)
[12:27] <xerxas> hi
[12:28] <xerxas> some using rhythmbox on breezy ?
[12:28] <xerxas> remote vfs seems to have disappeared
[12:28] <xerxas> anybody confirms this ?
[01:23] <bddebian> Anyone use/play falconseye?
[01:39] <blueyed> Does anyone know who maintains the kimdaba package? Seems to just be converted from debian? Because I'd like to see version 2.1 in breezy. Can I help there out?
[01:43] <bddebian> blueyed: You might want to try Riddell becuase it rdepends on kde-extras
[01:43] <bddebian> If he OKs it, I can try to build it
[01:43] <bddebian> Heya seth_k|lappy
[01:43] <Riddell> blueyed: go ahead
[01:43] <seth_k|lappy> hey bddebian
[01:44] <blueyed> Riddell: so bddebian can build it?
[01:44] <Riddell> blueyed: if he wants, or you can do it
[01:45] <blueyed> Riddell: I think it's better if he does, because I've not much experience with building, neither am I a motu.. :)
[01:45] <Riddell> blueyed: kimdaba 2.1 is in debian, needs a sync
[01:46] <bddebian> Riddell: Do you already know that it builds OK?
[01:46] <Riddell> I do not
[01:46] <bddebian> OK, I'll try it
[01:46] <blueyed> bddebian: thanks!
[01:46] <Riddell> very good of you, I'd have just told blueyed to test it :)
[01:46] <Riddell> I'm off to bed, let me know if you need me
[01:47] <bddebian> It makes me feel like I"m doing SOMETHING ;-)
[01:47] <bddebian> Gnight Riddell
[01:47] <blueyed> night Riddell "!
[02:38] <blueyed> bddebian: has it worked out with kimdaba?
[02:39] <bddebian> blueyed: I was in the middle of another build.  I'm pulling the build-deps for kimdaba now.
[02:41] <blueyed> Is there some docu on what you're doing now?
[02:42] <bddebian> blueyed: It's pretty similar to this process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMergeTips
[02:45] <blueyed> Will catch up on this someday. Thanks again. I hope it works without problems, cause kimdaba is a really nice app. Good night.
[02:46] <bddebian> Gnight
[02:47] <bddebian> blueyed: Well it built successfully, let's see if it installs
[02:48] <bddebian> Looks OK, I'll ask for a sync
[02:48] <blueyed> bddebian: Are you using pbuilder on hoary?
[02:48] <blueyed> bddebian: Great :)
[02:48] <bddebian> blueyed: No I'm all breezy ;-)
[02:49] <blueyed> bddebian: I've tried this directly after hoary came out, but it was difficult.. ;) cu
[02:49] <bddebian> Later
[02:50] <bddebian> Riddell: You still up?
[04:09] <bddebian> Damn it's been quiet in here the last couple days
[04:18] <ajmitch> yeah, I decided it's not the life for me ;)
[04:19] <bddebian> Heh
[04:20] <shadoi> ogra: hey, if I have all of our debian files included with the upstream source doesn't that make making a non-native package redundant?
[04:20] <bddebian> ajmitch: Hey, we need another bug day.  Our list is growing not shriking :-(
[04:20] <ajmitch> bddebian: so call for another bug day
[04:21] <ajmitch> bddebian: I'm not worthy for such a task :)
[04:21] <bddebian> Since when?
[04:24] <ajmitch> for quite awhile
[04:28] <ajmitch> interesting visitors in -devel
[04:28] <Lathiat> heh
[04:53] <bddebian> Damnit why to people make comments that bugs are fixed but not close the bugs?
[04:55] <bddebian> And better yet, why do I keep talking to myself?
[04:58] <ajmitch> because you don't want to talk to us
[05:02] <bmonty> bddebian: I just rejected a bug to make you feel better :)
[05:02] <bddebian> bmonty: :-)
[05:03] <bmonty> the meeting I have to be at to get accepted as an MOTU is the technical board meeting, right?
[05:05] <phlaegel> bddebian: falconseye could use a Comment in the .desktop, the tooltip on the menu is blank
[05:06] <ajmitch> bmonty: and then the MOTU initiation
[05:06] <bmonty> ajmitch: but the next step in the process is the technical board meeting?
[05:08] <bddebian> bmonty: Yep
[05:08] <bddebian> phlaegel: Are you watching me? :-)
[05:09] <bmonty> do they have they meeting at any other time than 2000?
[05:09] <phlaegel> bddebian: be afraid
[05:12] <phlaegel> bddebian: does falconseye work for you?
[05:13] <phlaegel> bddebian: it just hangs after character selection for me and I have to kill it (makes for a pretty predictable game ;-) )
[05:15] <bddebian> phlaegel: Hmm. I had a problem exiting but yes I have the same problem after character creation
[05:38] <bmonty> night all
[05:40] <bddebian> Gnight bmonty
[05:46] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[05:46] <tritium> hi bddebian
[06:38] <bddebian> Gnight gang
[07:37] <abarbaccia> hey all - anybody know when the mythtv 0.18.1 plugin packages are going to be updated?
[07:41] <crimsun> they've already been updated, and they've built successfully
[07:41] <crimsun> they just need to be moved into the archive
[07:44] <abarbaccia> crimsun, alright, great
[07:45] <abarbaccia> thanks!
[07:48] <\sh> morning
[07:53] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[07:54] <Yagisan> siretart: ping
[07:54] <siretart> Yagisan: pong
[07:54] <siretart> morning
[07:55] <Yagisan> siretart: Is the revu recover password script broken ? I didn't get anything to paste into gpg
[07:56] <siretart> oh. lets see
[07:57] <siretart> hm. youre right. wait
[07:57] <siretart> Yagisan: should work again now
[07:57] <Yagisan> thanks siretart - I wanted to help clarify the raven license issues you mention for deng
[07:57] <siretart> sorry for the inconvinience
[07:58] <Yagisan> siretart - no worries
[07:58] <siretart> ah. great!
[07:59] <siretart> Yagisan: the problem with the packages is, that, from what I see from the package in debian/licence as well as from source files inside, that those packages are clearly not redistributable
[08:00] <siretart> I'd really like to see them in ubuntu, but with that raven license, that's not possible :(
[08:00] <Yagisan> while I agree the raven license is a mess
[08:01] <Yagisan> it is redistributable - but it can't be commercially redistributed
[08:01] <Yagisan> their lawyers added that crap standard eula to it
[08:02] <Yagisan> I can disable the heretc and hexen shared objects
[08:03] <ajmitch> you'd need to cut out the source, too
[08:03] <Yagisan> as the seem to be the only parts covered by the raven license atm
[08:03] <Yagisan> ajmitch - yeah .dfsg the source
[08:04] <Yagisan> most of the heretic and hexen parts have been or currently are being re-written - but upstream needs a license cluebat
[08:04] <ajmitch> a rather solid one
[08:04] <siretart> yeah! jdong asking for help how to do transition packages *g*
[08:05] <Yagisan> at least they had enough of one to keep the raven code in a seperate module
[08:06] <siretart> but thats in the same source package, right?
[08:06] <Yagisan> same tarball yes
[08:07] <Yagisan> I think it's suitable for multiverse/non-free but if you think it should be repacked - no worries
[08:07] <siretart> lets see again
[08:07] <Yagisan> I have until dapper to fix it
[08:08] <Yagisan> I'm just glad it's not as bad as doom-legacy
[08:08] <siretart> where is Ravenlic.txt in the source tree?
[08:08] <Yagisan>  /Docs
[08:08] <siretart> ah
[08:08] <siretart> LICENSE CONDITIONS.
[08:08] <siretart> You shall not:
[08:08] <siretart> *  Make copies of this Program or any part thereof, or make copies of
[08:08] <siretart> the materials accompanying this Program.
[08:09] <Amaranth> wtf
[08:09] <siretart> I think this one is pretty clear that it's not suitable even for multiverse :(
[08:09] <siretart> there is even more bullshit in http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/deng-0508231655/deng-1.8.9+1.9.0beta2/Doc/Ravenlic.txt
[08:10] <Yagisan> Yep - the lawyers were smoking something when they wrote that
[08:10] <siretart> well, then the further action is clear
[08:10] <Yagisan> if you have any activision games
[08:11] <Yagisan> run a diff over the license - it's amusing
[08:11] <siretart> Yagisan: please repackage deng so that there is no code with this crap licence left. sorry, I don't see any other way
[08:11] <siretart> yes? what did they change?
[08:11] <siretart> I assume nothing
[08:12] <Yagisan> when you run a diff - the only bit left is the source terms
[08:12] <Yagisan> but activision doesn't seem to repond to emails about the license
[08:12] <Yagisan> I'll repackage it
[08:12] <siretart> sure, they don't understand that whole thing about free software and redistributing source
[08:13] <siretart> but one time, if ubuntu is even more successful, they will haunt lawyers at canonical, because they think canonical (or we) have the money to pay them
[08:13] <siretart> sorry, we can't play that game
[08:15] <Yagisan> siretart: please delete  deng-jheretic-ujhrp, deng-jheretic-ui, deng-jheretic-tp,  deng-iwad-heretic-installer,
[08:15] <Yagisan> deng-iwad-hexendd-installer, deng-iwad-hexen-installer, deng-jhexen-ui, deng-jhexen-xccp  from revu
[08:15] <Yagisan> as they depend on the soon to be removed heretic and hexen parts - I'll re-add them when upstream fixes their source
[08:16] <siretart> okay
[08:17] <siretart> Yagisan: and btw, does it really make sense to split them at that granularity?
[08:17] <siretart> and you mean deng itself, no?
[08:18] <Yagisan> I was going to add a note to deng
[08:18] <Yagisan> and reupload later this week
[08:18] <siretart> ok, I'll archive that too
[08:19] <siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/deng-jdoom-awp-0508180200/deng-jdoom-awp-3.03/debian/copyright
[08:19] <Yagisan> re: splitting - I think yes because a) multiple upstreams, b) slow machines can't use the models, c) the users emailed me and asked for it
[08:19] <siretart> btw, this is not enough in any way
[08:20] <siretart> this copyright file does not state that this files are even distributable
[08:20] <siretart> distributable is a must requirement for multiverse. and when it comes to license files, we have to assume that anything is denied what not otherwise stated true
[08:22] <siretart> Yagisan: I'm not really convinced that those reason really justify to split. if you are concerned about this, you could pack all upstream tarballs in a new 'orig' tarball, and extract them at buildtime
[08:22] <Yagisan> I'll fix the copyright notices on the data packs - but some of the data pack authors are against putting anything more then what is already stated
[08:22] <siretart> that would make handling and reviewing of these packages easier
[08:22] <Yagisan> over here it is anything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed
[08:22] <siretart> Yagisan: that is sad, because that results then in undistributable :(
[08:23] <siretart> Yagisan: sorry. this does not work for me, and I don't think for ubuntu/canonical either
[08:23] <Yagisan> I'll hunt down the forum links that state redistributable
[08:23] <siretart> perhaps ajmitch can comment on this
[08:23] <siretart> he is more experienced about license terms
[08:24] <Yagisan> no worries - it's nothing worth arguing over
[08:24] <Yagisan> 1st - fix deng - then look at data packs
[08:24] <siretart> okay
[08:24] <siretart> good idea
[08:24] <Yagisan> sorry its 1st - fix network - 2nd fix deng
[08:25] <Yagisan> one of my pc's isn't turning on anymore :(
[08:25] <Yagisan> and siretart - thanks for reviewing deng
[08:25] <siretart> no matter
[08:26] <siretart> I know that it is a PITA to package comercian games/stuff
[08:28] <Yagisan> yeah - many of them need cluebats because of stuff like this
[09:09] <\sh> grpmf
[09:09] <Treenaks> morning sh
[09:10] <\sh> morning Treenaks
[09:47] <dholbach> good morning
[09:48] <\sh> moins dholbach ... nice post btw :)
[09:48] <jsgotangco> hi
[09:48] <dholbach> morning \sh, post?
[09:48] <\sh> dholbach: your blog post :)
[09:48] <dholbach> ahh :)
[09:48] <dholbach> you see, i'm in love :)
[09:49] <jsgotangco> wow
[09:51] <ivoks> anyone played with clearlooks-cairo?
[10:38] <siretart> morning \sh, hi dholbach
[10:38] <dholbach> morning reinhard
[10:39] <\sh> hey siretart
[10:39] <siretart> yay. first upload to hoary-updates :)
[10:40] <siretart> do we have a defined policy what can go to {warty,hoary,breezy,dapper}-updates?
[10:40] <\sh> siretart: how did u do it?
[10:41] <\sh> set release to hoary-updates?
[10:41] <siretart> \sh: pitti told to do so. yes
[10:41] <\sh> siretart: hmmm...so we are able to update as well security related packages like clamav?
[10:42] <siretart> yes, but they need to be reviewed on security-review@lists.ubuntu.com
[10:42] <\sh> siretart: good to know :)
[10:46] <siretart> what was again the tool to create empty dummy packages?
[10:46] <siretart> I know how to use it, but I always forget its name :(
[10:46] <dholbach> siretart: apt-get source meta-gnome2 :)
[10:47] <ogra> there is a tool to do that ?
[10:47] <dholbach> please make a note on PackagingTips if you find out again :)
[10:47] <ogra> (me always uses dh_make on a epmty dir and cleans up /debian)
[10:50] <dholbach> siretart: equivs-build?
[10:51] <ajmitch> hi ogra, dholbach
[10:52] <dholbach> hey andrew
[10:52] <ogra> hey ajmitch
[10:52] <siretart> equivs. thanks!
[10:52] <dholbach> siretart: zgrep -i empty /usr/share/man/man1/* | grep -i package :)
[11:29] <Tonio-> hi everyone :)
[12:06] <sistpoty> hi folks
[12:07] <sistpoty> ping ajmitch
[12:07] <ajmitch> pong
[12:08] <sistpoty> ajmitch: did you get my mail regarding motuminutes?
[12:08] <ajmitch> yes, sorry I haven't replied yet
[12:08] <ajmitch> minutes look good
[12:08] <sistpoty> ah, cool... just thought i might have used a wrong email-addy ;)
[12:08] <ajmitch> nah..
[12:08] <ajmitch> I've just been rather busy with work
[12:08] <sistpoty> ok
[12:29] <sistpoty> does anyone know if gcc is different on the buildds? (like using compiler-cache or s.th.)
[12:43] <\sh> dholbach: ping <- use kubuntu-team for assigning kubuntu bugs ,-)
[12:43] <dholbach>  kubuntu-team?
[12:43] <dholbach> right
[12:43] <dholbach> will do
[12:43] <ajmitch> can your team handle the flood of bugs? ;)
[12:46] <tseng> dholbach: man
[12:46] <dholbach> tseng: what's wrong? :)
[12:46] <tseng> dholbach: how many of these beagle defunct process bugs will you assign me :P
[12:46] <dholbach> tseng: all there are :)
[12:46] <tseng> if someone searches first it will be a miracle
[12:46] <dholbach> tseng: i assign them to the "mono team" :)
[12:47] <dholbach> i guess search is too slow for them :)
[12:48] <\sh> dholbach: WAIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:48] <\sh> dholbach: I have to confirm the mail address *argl*
[12:48] <dholbach> i assigned a couple of bugs already :-p
[12:49] <\sh> yeah...u spammed my inbox ;)
[12:49] <dholbach> tell me when you're ready
[12:50] <\sh> well...this is not so easy ;)
[12:50] <\sh> dholbach: how did u add the launchpad address to the mailinglist?
[12:50] <dholbach> i was the mailing list admin
[12:50] <dholbach> that made things easier :)
[12:51] <dholbach> i guess i simply whitelisted it
[12:51] <ajmitch> heh
[12:51] <ajmitch> dholbach, the man behind the curtain
[12:51] <\sh> dholbach: hehe...I'm trying to fix it with riddell
[12:51] <dholbach> super
[12:52] <\sh> dholbach: which address is used by launchpad? or just whitelisted bugs.launchpad.net?
[12:52] <dholbach> let me check
[12:52] <tseng> *@bugs.launchpad.net
[12:52] <tseng> it starts with the bug #
[12:52] <dholbach> yeah, something like that
[12:53] <ajmitch> oh man, I see dholbach has been very busy on malone
[12:53] <dholbach> sorry for that
[12:53] <ajmitch> no, that's good :)
[12:53] <dholbach> yeah
[12:54] <dholbach> i was looking for it already
[12:54] <ajmitch> for those bugs like 2359
[12:54] <dholbach> \sh: ^(.*)bugs.launchpad.net
[12:55] <dholbach> \sh: in privacy options -> accept these nonmembers
[12:55] <tseng> * $ ${HDR_FROM}.*@bugs.launchpad.net
[12:55] <tseng> :)
[12:55] <ajmitch> hm
[12:55] <ajmitch> * Created missing second .dzproduct file for dzhandle
[12:55] <tseng> HDR_FROM="^(From[ ] |(Old-|X-)?(Resent-)?(From|Reply-To|Sender|Cc):)(.*\<)?"
[12:55] <tseng> H_TOCC="((To|Cc):)"
[12:55] <ajmitch> but that bug says it's not there
[12:55] <ajmitch> probably a hoary bug then :)
[12:56] <dholbach> tseng: you're a perfectionist
[12:56] <tseng> dholbach: :)
[12:56] <dholbach> \sh: i will re-assign riddell's and amu's bugs to that list, right?
[12:57] <dholbach> \sh: once you managed it
[12:57] <\sh> dholbach: yeah...riddell has to fix mailman ;)
[12:58] <sebest> hi all
[12:58] <dholbach> hey sebest
[12:59] <Riddell> \sh, dholbach: done
[12:59] <\sh> Riddell: thx
[01:00] <\sh> dholbach: try
[01:00] <dholbach> did so :)
[01:01] <\sh> dholbach: so i can delete the old bugs...did u reassign them?
[01:01] <dholbach> delete bugs?
[01:02] <\sh> dholbach: I have a bunch of assign kubuntu-team bug mails now, directly address to me (cause I was the team creator)
[01:02] <\sh> dholbach: these bugs ;)
[01:02] <dholbach> some didn't get through to the list
[01:02] <dholbach> because you hadn't managed it yet
[01:02] <\sh> dholbach: ah sht I forward them to the list
[01:02] <dholbach> but *shrug* that's life
[01:03] <dholbach> in malone there's a "view bugs of this team" view
[01:03] <sebest> dholbach, i read your mail about the "desktop team"
[01:04] <\sh> dholbach: yeah...but when the contact address is not confirmed, malone send all mails to the team creater, which is me ,--)
[01:04] <\sh> dholbach: and now I'm searching the *censored* bounce function in evolution
[01:05] <\sh> don't tell me evolution doesn't have a "bounce to" function *grrrr*
[01:06] <ajmitch> :)
[01:07] <sebest> dholbach: how does the  "desktop team" fit with gnome usability problem. For example when a user report a usability problem, he should assign it to the "desktop team" and the DT should fix it, or report the bug upstream?
[01:07] <dholbach> sebest: depends
[01:07] <dholbach> sebest: these are always cases for discussion
[01:08] <dholbach> sebest: we don't want to divert from upstream too much, but in case we have a majority of users complaining, ...
[01:08] <dholbach> sebest: you think the announcement text is alright?
[01:08] <sistpoty> ' \sh: do you know what package the run-command (alt-f2) belongs to?
[01:08] <torkel> \sh: Message->Redirect
[01:08] <ogra> sistpoty, gnome-panel afaik
[01:09] <sistpoty> ogra: in kde actually ;)
[01:09] <ogra> heh
[01:09] <ogra> kde-panel ? *g*
[01:09] <ajmitch> sistpoty: kdesktop iirc
[01:09] <ajmitch> sorry, that's the program..
[01:09] <ajmitch> hm
[01:10] <ajmitch> ok, looks like it's the package name too :)
[01:10] <\sh> torkel: yeah...but not 20 of them...this is not possible somehow
[01:10] <ajmitch> \sh: use mutt ;)
[01:10] <\sh> oh shit
[01:10] <\sh> oh shit
[01:10] <\sh> moderated list
[01:10] <ogra> oh shit ?
[01:11] <\sh> and I pushed now >10 mails towards
[01:11] <ajmitch> you realised that your life has been wasted & you have to switch back to GNOME?
[01:11] <ogra> *g*
[01:11] <\sh> ajmitch: no..kmail is much more usable then evolution today
[01:11] <tseng> hide
[01:11] <sistpoty> woohoo, another kmail user out there... i thought i was the only one *g*
[01:12] <tseng> it built
[01:12] <dholbach> \sh, Riddell: does the mail thing work now?
[01:12] <\sh> sistpoty: well...actually I'm trying to live with evolution
[01:12] <ajmitch> binary NEW
[01:13] <tseng> oh
[01:13] <dholbach> \sh, Riddell: did you get some mails from malone already?
[01:13] <\sh> Von: 	Daniel Holbach via Malone <968@bugs.launchpad.net>
[01:13] <\sh> Antwort an: 	Daniel Holbach via Malone <968@bugs.launchpad.net>
[01:13] <\sh> An: 	kubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
[01:13] <\sh> Betreff: 	[Bug 968]  File conflicts during upgrade
[01:13] <\sh> yes
[01:13] <dholbach> right :)
[01:13] <Riddell> dholbach: plenty
[01:16] <ogra> dholbach, spammer :p
[01:21] <\sh> I love my cyrus imapd with sieve
[01:21] <dholbach> yeah :)
[01:26] <sebest> dholbach, about the announcement, i think it's fine, but maybe it's just me but the limit between things related to desktop and things related to ubuntu is not clear, because i think that for a lot of people ubuntu is the desktop, for example does things like exa, looking glass, xgl, belongs to goals of the desktop team?
[01:27] <dholbach> sebest: that's a valid question - i think that's something we should discuss in there
[01:27] <ajmitch> sebest: announcement?
[01:28] <sebest> yes, i think we should try to clarify our perimeter
[01:28] <sebest> ajmitch: the annoucement of the ubuntu desktop team
[01:28] <ajmitch> ah
[01:28] <dholbach> sebest: we should have a meeting within dapper release cycle to clarify this
[01:28] <dholbach> ajmitch: it's not out yet
[01:29] <dholbach> Riddell, \sh: done
[01:29] <\sh> dholbach: zjx
[01:29] <\sh> aeh thx
[01:30] <dholbach> de rien
[01:31] <Riddell> dholbach: thanks
[01:57] <tseng> dholbach: still here?
[03:08] <havoc> does canonical host archive.ubuntu.com on their own, or is it a round-robin mirror system?
[03:09] <tseng> its a single host
[03:09] <havoc> ack
[03:09] <tseng> in the UK data center
[03:09] <tseng> there are many unofficial mirrors
[03:09] <havoc> means single connection, which I assume they pay for themselves
[03:09] <havoc> not cheap :(
[03:09] <tseng> canonical has millions of dollars in the budget
[03:09] <havoc> I suppose
[03:09] <tseng> dont worry yourself too much about it.
[03:10] <havoc> still doesn't make the bandwidth any cheaper ;)
[03:12] <siretart> havoc: you want to host a mirror? ;)
[03:12] <havoc> siretart: would if I could
[03:13] <havoc> I was just curious
[03:13] <havoc> I imaging that as ubuntu grows in popularity it will have to be mirrored
[03:14] <havoc> I want an ubuntu mirror at mirror.cs.wisc.edu :)
[03:22] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:25] <bddebian> Anyone feel like doing me a quick test?
[03:25] <siretart> havoc: there are <..>.archive.ubuntu.com
[03:25] <siretart> havoc: de.archive.ubuntu.com != us.archive.ubuntu.com, e.g.
[03:25] <siretart> hi bddebian
[03:25] <bddebian> Heya siretart
[03:25] <havoc> siretart: ah, so it's not all on a single amchine
[03:25] <siretart> no
[03:25] <havoc> that makes more sense :)\
[03:27] <Nafallo> havoc: those CC.a.u.c that haven't applied for being THE mirror for that country points to archive.ubuntu.com :-).
[03:27] <havoc> ok, time for meeting, bbl
[03:28] <siretart> bddebian: what quick test? how quick?
[03:28] <Nafallo> hmm, CC is tomorrow. what meeting then? :-P
[03:29] <bddebian> siretart: Just install wings3d and start it from a command line and see if it pukes on libsdl-erlang
[03:34] <siretart> bddebian: so, no breezy at hand atm
[03:34] <siretart> sorry
[03:34] <bddebian> siretart: NP, thx
[03:37] <bddebian> "Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna eat some worms" :'-(
[03:37] <bddebian> ;-P
[04:16] <bddebian> Hey WTF is up with you MOTU types? It's been too damn quiet in here lately :-)
[04:22] <Yagisan> bddebian: they've tired themselves out fixing bugs. perhaps we should poke a few of them awake
[04:23] <bddebian> Yagisan: Aye ;-)
[04:24] <Yagisan> bddebian: so whats up ? I'm having a shit of a day myself. I've had two pc's break
[04:24] <bddebian> Yuck. :-(
[04:24] <bddebian> I'm at "work" ;-)
[04:24] <Yagisan> I'm always at work
[04:25] <Yagisan> either I'm fixing the customers systems - or I'm fixing mine
[04:25] <Yagisan> brb - baby
[04:25] <bddebian> Heh
[04:27] <dholbach> re :)
[04:27] <bddebian> wb dholbach
[04:32] <Riddell> bddebian: how was kimdaba?
[04:32] <bddebian> Riddell: I'm waiting for sync from elmo :-)
[04:32] <bddebian> Riddell: I meant to ask you why you dropped kdelibs4 from the existing package though?
[04:34] <Yagisan> bddebian: the only good thing that happened today was the email confirming the updated prelink packages for hoary
[04:35] <bddebian> Ah :-)
[04:35] <bddebian> dholbach: sabdfl just said he thinks we should bring in babytrans-common and ffmpeg2 if we "can".
[04:35] <dholbach> yeah
[04:35] <dholbach> license-wise
[04:36] <dholbach> mjg59 and elmo are experts there
[04:36] <bddebian> Grrr :-)
[04:36] <dholbach> bddebian: far from it
[04:37] <bddebian> dholbach: If you ever get a sec I'd like to talk to you privately
[04:37] <dholbach> sure
[04:37] <bddebian> Now?
[04:38] <Riddell> bddebian: because build-dep shouldn't use kdelibs4, it should use kdelibs4-dev
[04:38] <dholbach> bddebian: yeah
[04:38] <Riddell> bddebian: and that broke when kdelibs4 changed to kdelibs4c2
[04:39] <bddebian> Riddell: Ohh, I missed that part ;-)
[04:39] <Riddell> bddebian: so did the debian packager :)
[04:42] <bddebian> Riddell: Well the sync just came in so we'll see if I missed it in the sync too :-(
[04:43] <Riddell> "Build-depends cleanup. Thanks to Ubuntu developer Jonathan Riddell"  hopefully that means he included my change
[04:44] <bddebian> Aye :-)
[05:32] <bddebian> Can anyone with a current breezy setup do me a quick test???
[05:35] <sivang> bddebian: I have a chroot?
[05:35] <sivang> bddebian: can it help?
[05:35] <bddebian> If it can do X :-)
[05:37] <sivang> bddebian: it can
[05:38] <bddebian> sivang: Awesome, could you just install wings3d and start it from a terminal and see if you get an error on sdl_driver.so?
[05:39] <dholbach> bddebian: i'll do it too
[05:39] <sivang> bddebian: in progress
[05:39] <sivang> bddebian: ETA 8Minutes
[05:39] <sivang> 2
[05:40] <bddebian> dholbach: Thx.  It should be pulling the latest libsdl-erlang I uploaded last night (ubuntu1 version)
[05:40] <dholbach> it did
[05:40] <bddebian> Did it work?
[05:40] <dholbach> just a sec
[05:41] <bddebian> Oh sorry
[05:41] <sivang> dholbach: how do you have such a quick network connection?
[05:41] <sivang> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[05:41] <sivang>   erlang erlang-base libsdl-erlang tcl8.4 tk8.4 wings3d
[05:41] <sivang> bddebian: okay?
[05:41] <bddebian> sivang: That should be fine, but libsdl-erlang should be x.x.x-xubuntu1 ;-)
[05:42] <dholbach> sivang: i'm quite happy the download is quite fast on my new connection
[05:42] <dholbach> sivang: the upload unfortunately isnt
[05:44] <sivang> oh whee
[05:44] <sivang> a nice one,
[05:44] <sivang> http://live.gnome.org/JhbuildOnUbuntu
[05:44] <sivang> bddebian: hmm,
[05:44] <sivang> =ERROR REPORT[05:44] <sivang> Error in process <0.31.0> with exit value: {"No suitable OpenGL mode found (are OpenGL drivers installed?)",[{wings_init,video_mode_failure,0},{wings_init,init,0},{wings,init,1}] }
[05:44] <sivang> dholbach: how much downstream?
[05:44] <dholbach> 450K/s
[05:45] <bddebian> sivang: Hmm, that's new :-)
[05:46] <sivang> bddebian: maybe it's a chrrot thingy?
[05:46] <bddebian> sivang: Could be.  At least you don't get the sdl_driver.so error which was the bug.  So thanks.
[05:47] <sivang> bddebian: no prob
[05:47] <sivang> bddebian: glad to be of service when I'm at work and longing for my Ubuntu activites :)
[05:47] <bddebian> ;-)
[05:57] <siretart> \sh_away: ping
[06:00] <xerxas> some knows how to run NetworkManager in debug mode ?
[06:01] <blueyed> bddebian: have you uploaded kimdaba 2.1 to breezy? I cannot apt-get source it.
[06:05] <xerxas> can someone on breezy help me ?
[06:06] <xerxas> I'm trying for 5 days to know if I have a problem of my own or if I hit a "bug"
[06:07] <bddebian> blueyed: Yep
[06:07] <dholbach> don't ask to ask, go ahead, xerxas and you'll see
[06:07] <dholbach> :)
[06:08] <bddebian> blueyed: It just synced this morning so give it a bit to hit the archive.
[06:08] <xerxas> dholbach: I have nothing to sa
[06:08] <xerxas> say
[06:09] <xerxas> seb128 answered me :)
[06:09] <dholbach> i see
[06:09] <xerxas> and It's a reported bug :)
[06:09] <dholbach> yeah, he knows bug numbers by heart
[06:09] <dholbach> he's incredible
[06:12] <xerxas> dholbach:  :)
[06:12] <xerxas> is there something I can do right now ?
[06:13] <xerxas> dholbach:  do you easly understand launchpad ?
[06:13] <xerxas> it's interface is special , I never know where I am , where I should go to find something
[06:13] <dholbach> xerxas: you should ask bddebian - he's the MOTU workload coordinator :)
[06:13] <xerxas> I don't get the concept right now
[06:13] <dholbach> xerxas: you should file bugs about malone itself then
[06:13] <xerxas> dholbach: launchapd is zope / cmf / plone based ?
[06:13] <dholbach> that might make it easier
[06:13] <xerxas> dholbach:  why not
[06:13] <dholbach> or talk to the guys in #launchpad
[06:13] <xerxas> if it's zope based I can do some code
[06:14] <xerxas> I have already worked with zope
[06:14] <dholbach> they take care of it
[06:14] <xerxas> dholbach:  right now I'm using xchat-gnome , I found translations , but it's not tranlated at all
[06:14] <xerxas> howcome ?
[06:15] <xerxas> not merged yet ?
[06:15] <bddebian> dholbach: Heh
[06:15] <dholbach> xerxas: hm, i have no idea
[06:15] <dholbach> bddebian: :)
[06:15] <xerxas> bddebian:  what should I work on ?
[06:15] <bddebian> dholbach: Yeah, I'm coordinating with me, myself, and I ;-P
[06:16] <dholbach> bddebian: that's a not trivial piece of work :)
[06:16] <xerxas> dholbach: on launchpad there are a lot of links that says permission denied
[06:16] <bddebian> xerxas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps or bug triaging on Malone would be nice
[06:16] <xerxas> would be better if links don't show  I think so
[06:16] <xerxas> bddebian: k
[06:19] <siretart> bddebian for president! :)
[06:19] <bddebian> shiite :-)
[06:20] <xerxas> :)
[06:20] <siretart> :)
[06:21] <bddebian> xerxas: How's your C/C++ foo?
[06:23] <abarbaccia> anybody here use fspot with breezy?  the rotate feature gives an error
[06:23] <bddebian> xerxas: Or if your script foo ROCKS, I'd love to get a shot of what packages we have source sitting in the archive but don't have the binaries for? :-)
[06:25] <bddebian> Hey ajmitch, what's your bugcount now?? ;-P
[06:31] <xerxas> bddebian: not too good in c , c++ but I have some knowledge in shell and python
[06:31] <xerxas> bddebian: how should I do this ?
[06:31] <bddebian> xerxas: Do what?
[06:32] <xerxas> how can I find source packages sitting that don't have binaries ?
[06:32] <xerxas> ftp ? http ?
[06:32] <bddebian> That's a darn good question :-)
[06:32] <xerxas> or apt ?
[06:32] <bddebian> You can use apt-cache dump |grep Package: to get a list of packages
[06:32] <xerxas> how can I find all sources packages , all binary packages
[06:33] <bddebian> I'm not sure how to get a dump of source packages
[06:33] <xerxas> a list of binary pacakges ?
[06:33] <xerxas> ok
[06:33] <xerxas> will look at that
[06:33] <xerxas> is there some ressources for this on any wiki ?
[06:33] <dholbach> bddebian: i'm sure ajmitch is counting bugs in his sleep :)
[06:33] <xerxas> so that we can gather information to do it?
[06:33] <xerxas> s/?//
[06:33] <bddebian> dholbach: ;-)
[06:34] <bddebian> xerxas: No, afaik, it doesn't exist yet.  It's just a pet project of mine ;-)
[06:34] <bddebian> xerxas: If you'd rather help with UnmetDeps, that's great too
[06:36] <jamessan|work> /var/lib/apt/lists might help
[06:36] <xerxas> bddebian:  I'm looking on both right now
[06:37] <xerxas> but I don't have a lot of knowledge
[06:37] <xerxas> what's the difference between unmet and source packages that don't have binary packages ?
[06:37] <xerxas> probably those binary package don't have any package that depends on them ?
[06:38] <bddebian> xerxas: UnmetDeps are binary packages that are built and in the archive but cannot be installed because of a dependency on anoher binary package
[06:38] <bddebian> Heya ivoks
[06:38] <ivoks> hi
[06:38] <ivoks> i tried xcomposite and cairo today...
[06:39] <bddebian> xerxas: My thought on the source vs binary list is that there are some source packages just sitting out there that never built successfully and therefore are not in the archive.
[06:39] <bddebian> ivoks: brownoser ;-P
[06:39] <xerxas> bddebian:  ok
[06:39] <xerxas> bddebian: there are no reports of builds ?
[06:39] <ivoks> bddebian: ?
[06:40] <bddebian> xerxas: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs
[06:40] <bddebian> ivoks: I'm kidding you :-)
[06:40] <ivoks> ah...
[06:41] <bddebian> xerxas: Or another handy thing might be a wiki page that shows packages that are broken on X architecture.  I think you could get that from the link I just posted there too. :-)
[06:42] <bddebian> Of course I'm just spouting thought.  I may be totally full of shit :)
[06:42] <bddebian> s/thought/thoughts
[06:42] <abarbaccia> do breezy extra repos exist yet?
[06:45] <ogra> abarbaccia, ??
[06:45] <abarbaccia> you know the hoary-extra and hoary-backport repositories
[06:45] <abarbaccia> do they exist for breezy yet
[06:45] <dholbach> no
[06:45] <dholbach> because breezy isnt released yet
[06:45] <ogra> abarbaccia, ask that at the backports team
[06:46] <abarbaccia> dholbach, alright thanks
[06:46] <ogra> we are not related to the -extras stuff at all
[06:46] <dholbach> how can there be backports for something that's not there yet? :))))
[06:46] <abarbaccia> lol - so true
[06:46] <abarbaccia> but extras....
[06:46] <ogra> thats from the unofficial backports
[06:46] <dholbach> extras contain stuff we can't ship, due to license problems
[06:47] <dholbach> and won't likely ever ship
[06:47] <ogra> and since they got legal problems with hoary-extras now, i think they wont go on with them... lets see :)
[06:47] <ogra> (they already had to wipe w32codecs and decss2 so -extras is somewhat pointless, since we ship all the rest in multiverse now)
[06:48] <thesaltydog> how can I add an attachment to a comment in malone?
[06:48] <markuman> hi, ive got some problems $PKG_CONFIG --exists --print-errors "gnome-bluetooth >= $BLUETOOTH_REQUIRED"
[06:48] <markuman> Package gnome-bluetooth was not found in the pkg-config search path.
[06:49] <ogra> abarbaccia, but jdong is in -devel i think, you can ask him directly, its his private repo
[06:49] <dholbach> markuman: you have libgnomebt0-dev installed?
[06:50] <thesaltydog> is there any way to attach an strace (as an attachment) to a malone bug?
[06:50] <dholbach> markuman: config.log should maybe help too
[06:50] <thesaltydog> soory... found!
[06:50] <dholbach> thesaltydog: i never attached files to it, but i saw some links in there already
[06:51] <thesaltydog> dholbach, yes, gotcha!. Sorry again
[06:52] <markuman> dholbach, thx a lot
 I'm not sure how to get a dump of source packages
[07:09] <xerxas> bddebian: you have any idea ?
[07:10] <bddebian> xerxas: No unfortunately :-(
[07:10] <bddebian> Ohh, wait
[07:11] <xerxas> bddebian:  can we set a wiki page that gather informations about that ?
[07:11] <xerxas> which says what is it, what is it for, how we can do it ?
[07:11] <bddebian> xerxas: We should be able to grep the Sources file.  Maybe with grep-dctrl?
[07:12] <dholbach> what are you trying to find?
[07:12] <xerxas> the Source file ?
[07:12] <bddebian> dholbach: All source packages
[07:12] <dholbach> what do you exactly want to do?
[07:12] <dholbach> a list of all source packages available?
[07:12] <bddebian> See if we have source packages in the archive with no corresponding binary
[07:13] <bddebian> Or version differences, such as I ran into with libsdl-erlang yesterday
[07:13] <dholbach> sounds like a case for python-apt :)
[07:14] <dholbach> if you look at /usr/share/doc/python-apt you find a couple of examples which should be cool to modify and change
[07:14] <bddebian> xerxas: There ya go ;-)
[07:15] <xerxas> dholbach:  I had already an ipython opened
[07:15] <xerxas> with an import apt written
[07:16] <xerxas> :)
[07:16] <dholbach> :)
[07:16] <xerxas> thought I don't know python-apt
[07:16] <xerxas> and googling for docs
[07:16] <xerxas> /usr/share/doc/python-apt is a good advice
[07:16] <dholbach> yeah
[07:20] <xerxas> bddebian:  I have a problem while rebuilding euro-support (from unmet.txt)
[07:20] <dholbach> we should probably drop euro-support :)
[07:20] <xerxas> a problem with gpg keys
[07:20] <bddebian> xerxas: So fix it ;-P
[07:20] <xerxas> :)
[07:20] <xerxas> bddebian: I don't know nothing about gpg and debs
[07:20] <\sh> xerxas: a problem with what?
[07:20] <siretart> \sh: ah, there you are :)
[07:20] <xerxas> gpg: skipped "Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Pen~a <jfs@computer.org>": secret key not available
[07:20] <xerxas> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
[07:20] <siretart> \sh: did you request a sync of gtkpod?
[07:20] <\sh> I'm not here...I'm still asleep
[07:21] <\sh> siretart: yep
[07:21] <\sh> siretart: u asked me to do so ;)
[07:21] <xerxas> \sh:  can you help  ?
[07:21] <dholbach> xerxas: that's normal (if you didnt do the last changelog entry)
[07:21] <\sh> xeras: debuild -S -k<your key id>
[07:21] <siretart> \sh: aah, thats the reason I appear in the Changed-By: Field
[07:21] <dholbach> xerxas: you are not javier and dont have his gpg-key
[07:21] <\sh> siretart: yepp
[07:21] <xerxas> I don't have a gpg key
[07:21] <bddebian> xerxas: How are you trying to build?
[07:21] <\sh> xerxas: create one :)
[07:21] <xerxas> I can generate one but it's not signed yet
[07:22] <siretart> \sh: ok, then everything is okay. I was just a bit confused
[07:22] <dholbach> you should create one
[07:22] <\sh> siretart: hehe :)
[07:22] <dholbach> xerxas: zyga is the new GPG master
[07:22] <xerxas> \sh|dholbach: I must be signed ?
[07:22] <xerxas> it
[07:22] <\sh> siretart: i checked it before I requested the sync..so elmo synced it to my request ;)
[07:22] <dholbach> xerxas: if you want to upload it yes, else no
[07:23] <siretart> ok, then everything is clear now
[07:23] <zyga> dholbach: :-)
[07:24] <zyga> xerxas: do you need help with GPG :-)
[07:25] <zyga> BTW: someone could help me to understand how to configure dput so that I can finally upload my precious package and use my precious signed key :-)
[07:25] <zyga> I *did* read the wiki
[07:25] <bddebian> zyga: To REVU or Ubuntu?
[07:26] <zyga> bddebian: REVU
[07:26] <bddebian> zyga: What problem are you having?
[07:26] <zyga> bddebian: I'm sure the package has some rough edges though
[07:27] <zyga> bddebian: nothing that I could simply ask for yet, I have to work on darn job stuff now, I'll ask real questions when issues are verbalized
[07:27] <xerxas> zyga:  yep
[07:27] <xerxas> where should I start ?
[07:27] <bddebian> zyga: OK
[07:27] <xerxas> zyga: gpg --gen-key ?
[07:27] <zyga> xerxas: I wrote a wiki about that ;-) I should help you
[07:28] <zyga> yes, you need a key
[07:28] <xerxas> zyga: where is it ?
[07:28] <xerxas> zyga:  I must get it signed , or I can use it without it being signed ?
[07:28] <zyga> just a second :)
[07:28] <xerxas> np
[07:28] <zyga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GetYourKeySigned
[07:28] <zyga> :-)
[07:28] <xerxas> k
[07:29] <zyga> xerxas: if you have any issues just ask, I'll update the wiki with your suggestions
[07:29] <xerxas> zyga:  grat
[07:29] <xerxas> zyga:  It must be signed by a ubuntu-dev so that I can upload ,right ?
[07:29] <zyga> not really
[07:30] <zyga> it must be signed by someone whos identity is not questionable
[07:30] <xerxas> ok
[07:30] <zyga> a known debian developer will do
[07:30] <xerxas> but I must meet him
[07:30] <zyga> yes, that is absolutly required
[07:30] <xerxas> I can sign it later and work with an unsigned one ?
[07:31] <zyga> the idea about signing is so that others will know that you are the person you claim to be
[07:31] <zyga> yes, but things like REVU will require a signed key
[07:31] <xerxas> k
[07:31] <xerxas>    (1) DSA and Elgamal (default)
[07:31] <xerxas>    (2) DSA (sign only)
[07:31] <xerxas>    (5) RSA (sign only)
[07:31] <xerxas> 1 ?
[07:31] <zyga> One moment
[07:32] <zyga> there is an excelent page that will guide you through this
[07:33] <xerxas> I'm updating you're wiki page
[07:33] <zyga> http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/howtos.html
[07:33] <zyga> check the mini howto in your preferred language
[07:34] <zyga> you can probably skip the first two chapters
[07:34] <zyga> but I recommend reading about the concepts later
[07:36] <xerxas> I'm not really interested in cryptography and gpg signing and botherring with that
[07:36] <xerxas> sure it's important, but I want to work for ubuntu
[07:36] <xerxas> I'll update the wiki page with generic informations
[07:36] <xerxas> so that people don't spend time
[07:37] <zyga> okay but it's useful to know *how* signing helps, what it does and does not do
[07:38] <xerxas> I think I have a general vision of what it does and what it doesn"t
[07:38] <xerxas> not sure
[07:38] <xerxas> I allows to be sure of someones identity
[07:38] <xerxas> and It probably can also encrypt mail content
[07:38] <xerxas> right ?
[07:38] <zyga> it can make sure the content was not tampered with
[07:39] <xerxas> zyga:  key does not expire, is it ok ?
[07:39] <zyga> IMHO yes
[07:39] <zyga> but that depends on your setup
[07:40] <zyga> I set my work key to expire after 6 months as I didn't know if I'll ever be employed there again
[07:41] <xerxas> and then ?
[07:41] <xerxas> you generate new one ?
[07:41] <siretart> no, you can extend an existing key
[07:41] <xerxas> k
[07:41] <siretart> I personally find non expiring key less trustworthy
[07:42] <siretart> but YMMV
[07:42] <\sh> siretart: u can revoke it every time
[07:43] <siretart> \sh: jepp. but only my own keys ;)
[07:43] <zyga> \sh: as long as you have the certificate - some people can loose them or don't have them at all
[07:43] <xerxas> I don't have a passphrase
[07:43] <xerxas> need to find one I'll remember
[07:43] <zyga> xerxas: set it to anything you like, you can change it later
[07:43] <xerxas> ok
[07:48] <xerxas> zyga:  ?
[07:49] <xerxas> should I save the output ?
[07:52] <zyga> xerxas: output of?
[07:53] <zyga> gpg --gen-key?
[07:55] <xerxas> yep
[07:56] <zyga> hmm I don't remember... I don't think so
[07:56] <xerxas> I have done it in case ...
[07:56] <dholbach> no, you don't need it
[07:56] <dholbach> gpg --fingerprint <yourmailadress> should give you all you need
[07:56] <dholbach> but for my first key, i saved it too :)
[07:56] <dholbach> (just in case)
[07:56] <xerxas> zyga:  the upload with hkp:// is done with /bin/gpg ?
[07:57] <xerxas> or manually ? on the site ?
[07:57] <xerxas> dholbach:  :)
[07:57] <dholbach> gpg --send-key <keyid>
[07:57] <zyga> with gpg
[07:57] <dholbach> or send-keys?
[07:57] <zyga> :-)
[07:57] <zyga> gpg --send-key
[07:57] <xerxas> what's my keyid ?
[07:57] <zyga> gpg --send-keys, sorry
[07:57] <zyga> xerxas: your name is fine
[07:57] <xerxas> it's written in the output ?
[07:58] <xerxas> ok
[07:58] <zyga> gpg --send-keys your name
[07:58] <Evaso> any news about the totem crash with gst-ffmpeg when playing divx?
[07:58] <markuman> dholbach, my key is now signed :-) now i have to contact sireart for revu and have to get on whitelist?
[07:58] <zyga> xerxas: source /etc/bash_competion
[07:58] <zyga> that helps with all the --commands
[07:58] <xerxas> yep
[07:58] <xerxas> should be done by default in ubuntu :)
[07:58] <dholbach> markuman: yeah http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads for whitelist
[07:59] <zyga> markuman: hmm does that mean you are now the GPG master? ;-)
[07:59] <xerxas> zyga:  what's a key id ?
[07:59] <dholbach> zyga: or edit ~/.bashrc and enable it :)
[07:59] <siretart> for having your key added to revu keyring, please mail requests to keyring@tiber.tauware.de
[07:59] <xerxas> or /etc/bashrc |/etc/profile
[07:59] <xerxas> :)
[08:00] <markuman> zyga :-)
[08:02] <xerxas> how do I find my keyid ?
[08:02] <zyga> xerxas: --list-keys
[08:02] <xerxas> gpg --list-keys don't give it
[08:03] <xerxas> zyga: don't seem to find it
[08:03] <zyga> I'll show you mine
[08:03] <xerxas> pub   1024D/BC083C5A 2005-09-26
[08:03] <xerxas> uid                  xerxas <xerxas@gmail.com>
[08:03] <xerxas> sub   2048g/D60A4283 2005-09-26
[08:03] <zyga> ah
[08:03] <zyga> then your key id is BC083C5A
[08:03] <xerxas> ok , thanks
[08:03] <zyga> well strictly speaking...
[08:03] <zyga> your key id can be specified in a number of ways - the manpage will help here
[08:04] <zyga> that's a part of the fingerprint
[08:04] <dholbach> we should have a HOWTO on the wiki :)
[08:04] <spayne> yo all
[08:04] <dholbach> i once wrote a german one, maybe i'll find the time to translate it soon
[08:04] <dholbach> hey spayne
[08:04] <bddebian> Heya spayne
[08:04] <bddebian> blueyed: Still here?
[08:04] <dholbach> spayne: i just fixed nautilus-sendto for bluetooth :)
[08:04] <spayne> nice
[08:04] <spayne> new package?
[08:04] <dholbach> it's been there for ages
[08:05] <dholbach> but the functionality nautilus-send-to-bluetooth had travelled from gnome-bluetooth to nautilus-sendto
[08:05] <xerxas> zyga:  nevermind
[08:05] <xerxas> works
[08:05] <xerxas> gpg --send-keys `gpg --list-keys |head -n3 |tail -n1  |cut -d' '  -f4 |cut -d'/' -f2`
[08:05] <xerxas> will write that on the wiki
[08:05] <zyga> xerxas: gosh!
[08:05] <zyga> xerxas: no no ;-)
[08:05] <xerxas> if output of gpg doesn't change
[08:05] <xerxas> this will send the 1st key
[08:05] <ogra> xerxas, it will with every key you add...
[08:05] <xerxas> not the good one ?
[08:06] <xerxas> ok
[08:06] <ogra> you need the username in there to get only your own
[08:06] <xerxas> but for user who never generated any key this will work
[08:06] <ogra> yup
[08:07] <zyga> xerxas: just describe what a key id is
[08:07] <zyga> an output of your --list-keys with bold/strong part of the keyid is far better
[08:07] <zyga> as the user will now know what keyid is, not just some longish cryptic command
[08:08] <xerxas> zyga:  you're right
[08:08] <xerxas> my output is fine or therer are some security concerns ?
[08:09] <xerxas> will change my mail so I won't receive spam
[08:09] <zyga> it is fine, the only stuff there are the public parts
[08:09] <xerxas> what I saw , but never sure
[08:17] <blueyed> bddebian: pong
[08:17] <xerxas> can I have some <pre> or <code> in the wiki ?
[08:18] <zyga> xerxas: no, you need to use wiki markup
[08:18] <blueyed> Someone tries to create a .deb for a web application, which depends on php. Can you take care of when php is installed from source in the package's depends?
[08:18] <bddebian> blueyed: Yes
[08:19] <bddebian> blueyed: Has kimdaba shown up yet?
[08:19] <xerxas> zyga:  I have a conflict with you on the wiki , did I remove some information that just put in  ?
[08:19] <blueyed> No..
[08:19] <dholbach> xerxas: there is already UnsignedGpgKey on the wiki :)
[08:19] <zyga> xerxas: I added links section
[08:20] <zyga> xerxas: I didn't know you were already editing, sorry
[08:20] <dholbach> xerxas: {{{ }}} is your friend
[08:20] <zyga> dholbach: hmmm
[08:20] <blueyed> bddebian: I use "apt-cache showsrc kimdaba" and grep for "Version", after apt-get update.
[08:20] <\sh> blueyed: if it's a php application, you need php as install dependency, not as build-dep
[08:20] <zyga> dholbach: those two pages could be merged
[08:20] <xerxas> dholbach: UnsignedGpgKey ?
[08:20] <blueyed> \sh: but that would require to have php packages installed, wouldn't it?
[08:21] <dholbach> yeah http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnsignedGpgKey
[08:21] <dholbach> and we should link them from all the MOTU pages we point people to
[08:21] <\sh> blueyed: no...php apps are only source files which are installed somewhere...but when they're installed, php is installing as well, as interpreter of those pages...
[08:21] <\sh> blueyed: have a look on phpmyadmin
[08:22] <bddebian> blueyed:
[08:22] <bddebian> kimdaba:
[08:22] <bddebian>   Installed: (none)
[08:22] <bddebian>   Candidate: 2.1-1
[08:22] <bddebian>   Version table:
[08:22] <xerxas> dholbach: can I have bold inside {{{}}}
[08:22] <xerxas> ?
[08:22] <dholbach> '''{{{$ cryptic command --bla }}}''' :)
[08:22] <blueyed> \sh: sure. But it is rather common IMHO to just install php from source (not deb-src). Isn't it? So the web app requires the packages, though the server already can interpret php (without php .deb packages).
[08:23] <xerxas> dholbach:  and if I want bold text in the cryptic command , I simply can't , right ?
[08:23] <dholbach> xerxas: try, there's a preview button - i don't know for sure
[08:23] <xerxas> it prints '''
[08:24] <xerxas> nevermind
[08:24] <\sh> blueyed: Idon't understand...if you're packaging only .php files, u don't need php to be installed via build time...you need it installed via install time, means, it's a install dependency for the binary package and no build-dep
[08:24] <xerxas> will do without it
[08:24] <\sh> blueyed: where "binary package" == something-version_all.deb
[08:25] <blueyed> \sh: I'd like to avoid this install dependency. Without having "broken packages" afterwards. Because you don't want to install php packages (php is compiled from php.net source).
[08:26] <xerxas> zyga:  looks better like that ?
[08:27] <blueyed> bddebian: I've now apt-get updated without a mirror and it's there.. :)
[08:27] <havoc> what's the apt command to view a package's headers, like maintainer, date, files, etc...?
[08:27] <zyga> looks good, but remove the ''' in the {{{ }}} unless you can get it working
[08:27] <\sh> blueyed: don't think about your installation..if you want to package it for ubuntu you have to install depend on php
[08:27] <ogra> blueyed, that will break for all people that dont install php from source... thats not the way you do it in ubuntu
[08:27] <Mithrandir> havoc: apt-cache show ?
[08:27] <blueyed> ok, I understand. Just thought there was a possibility.
[08:28] <havoc> Mithrandir: thanx, and least now I know what to man :)
[08:28] <ogra> blueyed, make the package depend on php and its fine
[08:28] <\sh> blueyed: but so to say, it's quite crappy to install webapps via .deb packages right now, cause there is a discussion on debian side, how to do it the right way ;)
[08:28] <xerxas> zyga:  you're not looking at the last version
[08:28] <blueyed> ogra: "php" or "php4 | php5"?
[08:28] <ogra> i doubt ubuntu users will insall php from source and i'd highly discourage them to do so
[08:28] <ogra> blueyed, php5
[08:29] <\sh> blueyed: it depends on the webapp...does it work with php5 flawlessly?
[08:29] <blueyed> why not both?
[08:29] <blueyed> yep
[08:29] <\sh> so php5
[08:29] <blueyed> And if someone just has php4 it fails..
[08:29] <ogra> blueyed, nope... then php5 will get installed for him
[08:29] <\sh> blueyed: php5 is in main (ogra?) so it's ok
[08:30] <ogra> you can indeed also do "php4 | php5" if you think thats necessary
[08:30] <ogra> \sh, yes
[08:31] <\sh> what the heck
[08:31] <blueyed> it's a debian package. I think it should be the admins choice to go with php4 when he wants. because other apps might need it. "php4 | php5" sounds very reasonable to me.
[08:32] <ogra> i'd only take php5 ...
[08:32] <ogra> but your choice
[08:32] <zyga> xerxas: I am
[08:32] <zyga> xerxas: maybe you did not commit the change
[08:34] <blueyed> Is it still possible to sync webapps from Debian? And if yes, until when? - to get them into breezy?
[08:35] <\sh> blueyed: which ones?
[08:36] <blueyed> \sh: a blog app. b2evolution.
[08:37] <\sh> blueyed: try s9y (http://www.s9y.org/) first, before u request this thing ;)
[08:37] <blueyed> I'm a dev of it.. :p
[08:37] <\sh> blueyed: u should change ;)
[08:38] <blueyed> Thought about it.. ;)
[08:38] <\sh> blueyed: does it come with a xmlrpc lib?
[08:38] <blueyed> yep. Are you asking because of security issues?
[08:39] <\sh> blueyed: yes :)
[08:39] <blueyed> \sh: this might create extra-work for someone then, which is not the package maintainer, yes?
[08:40] <\sh> blueyed: yes
[08:40] <\sh> can it be used with the php pear xmlrpc lib?
[08:40] <blueyed> not atm.
[08:40] <\sh> that's why I don't like to package webapps at all, especially not blog apps :(
[08:41] <blueyed> ok, I understand. IMHO it does not make that much sense anyway. What's the debian way that's being discussed?
[08:42] <\sh> blueyed: first of all, there is the problem where to install, cause many hosters are using different aproaches..like chrooted apaches and wwwroots
[08:43] <blueyed> bddebian: kimdaba built fine!
[08:43] <bddebian> blueyed: You suspected something else? ;-P
[08:43] <blueyed> \sh: specify a path..
[08:43] <\sh> blueyed: the other way is the gentoo way, installing it into /usr/share/webapps/<app>-<version> and copy it on demand into someones webroot
[08:43] <blueyed> bddebian: of course not.. :)
[08:44] <\sh> blueyed: or symlink it into someones webroot
[08:44] <\sh> blueyed: so while updating any instance of it is updated
[08:44] <abarbaccia> hey guys - theres an error with the fspot package
[08:44] <\sh> blueyed: debian-webapps@lists.debian.org is a ML for this discussion
[08:44] <abarbaccia> well, actually the error is with the mono package i believe
[08:44] <blueyed> \sh: yep, I've seen this (/usr/share/-approach) also with ubuntu packages I think. Thanks, I'll join it.
[08:45] <abarbaccia> Received error "libMonoPosixHeper.so" while attempting to rotate
[08:45] <blueyed> \sh: how to subscribe? subscribe in subject?
[08:46] <\sh> blueyed: List-Subscribe: <mailto:debian-webapps-request@lists.debian.org?subject=subscribe>
[08:46] <\sh> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:debian-webapps-request@lists.debian.org?subject=unsubscribe>
[09:08] <bddebian> Gnight \sh
[09:10] <ogra> \sh, night
[09:11] <\sh> g'night folks..I hope tomorrow is a better day and I hope no outages of our bloody SI server :(
[09:11] <ogra> \sh, :(
[09:11] <\sh> ogra: java software...and not developed properly...
[09:12] <ogra> yup, i know
[09:12] <\sh> anyways..off to bed...I'm tired :(
[09:36] <dholbach> re
[09:40] <bddebian> wb dholbach
[09:41] <dholbach> hi bddebian :)
[09:46] <shadoi> ogra: I've been building packages for the e17 stuff straight from CVS checkouts.  Do you want me to build from a dist tarball instead?  Does that make sense if they aren't "released" yet?
[09:48] <dholbach> depends, you can either package a tarball and add the necessary patches in debian/patches or package a cvs export
[09:48] <shadoi> dholbach: well since I'm the upstream maintainer it doesn't matter to me.
[09:49] <shadoi> no patches will ever be necessary.
[09:49] <dholbach> i was talking from the package maintainers perspective
[09:49] <tseng> ogra: :/
[09:49] <dholbach> ogra: share your feelings with us
[09:49] <ogra> tseng, see my last mail to -users
[09:49] <tseng> ogra: ok
[09:50] <bddebian> ogra: What's the matter?
[09:50] <ogra> obviously jdong broke all kubuntu desktop installs with a backported k3b in his personal playground repo
[09:50] <crimsun> victory!
[09:50] <tseng> "all"?
[09:50] <ogra> read mirrormax
[09:50] <bddebian> w00t
[09:51] <ogra> after i spend my whole weekend supporting people with their broken ff (and i talk about more than 12h a day this weekend)
[09:51] <tseng> what is the subject
[09:51] <ogra> tseng, no idea if itsall... but hoary users using mirrormax shit cant install kubuntu-desktop
[09:52] <ogra> switching hoary ubuntu -> kubuntu
[09:52] <tseng> ogra: everyone knows how i feel about mr. dong, so ill try not to get fired up with you :P
[09:52] <tseng> its not productive
[09:53] <crimsun> I'd tape a backports sign to a dartboard and have at it
[09:53] <ogra> i'm soo ANGRY !!!!
[09:53] <tseng> crimsun: no way
[09:53] <ogra> he steals my time !
[09:53] <tseng> crimsun: we love mez and slomo
[09:53] <crimsun> ok, "unofficial backports"
[09:53] <slomo> why me?
[09:54] <slomo> i haven't done anything for the backports since i become member ;)
[09:54] <tseng> hm oh
[09:54] <tseng> so
[09:54] <ogra> it was a requirement for giving them the ressources that they sut down this shit...
[09:54] <tseng> how do i start X stuff in a chroot
[09:54] <ogra> shut even
[09:54] <tseng> do i need a full x server inside?
[09:55] <tseng> ogra: i dont like that they talk about restricted/illegal stuff on our mailing list servers
[09:55] <ogra> yup that too
[09:55] <tseng> as part of the official project
[09:55] <tseng> or at least very confusing
[09:56] <Treenaks> ogra: aren't those "cigarettes" illegal in Germany? :P
[09:56] <Treenaks> ogra: (the calming kind)
[09:56] <ogra> not *those*
[09:56] <Treenaks> ;)
[09:56] <dholbach> Treenaks: man... what did you learn in berlin? "those cigarettes" are a public matter, it's perfectly alright over here :)
[09:57] <slomo> ogra: just let jdong clean up his mess... and imho we shouldn't be responsible for 3rd party repos breaking something... and the mirrormax stuff is 3rd party
[09:57] <dholbach> ogra: !!! :)
[09:57] <Treenaks> dholbach: yeah, I got offered more hash there then I get offered in Amsterdam :)
[09:57] <ogra> slomo, whats to clean up there ?
[09:57] <ogra> slomo, it should get shut down immediately...
[09:57] <dholbach> :-p
[09:57] <ogra> today if you ask me
[09:58] <slomo> ogra: yes... or under another name and completely disconnected... sure
[09:58] <slomo> ogra: but i meant because of the k3b breakage
[09:58] <ogra> nope
[09:58] <ogra> shut down now !
[09:58] <ogra> and the firefox breakage
[09:58] <ogra> i fear the stuff that will come up tomorrow
[09:59] <slomo> ogra: we can't forbid jdong to make some 3rd party repo... it just have to be completely disconnected from the official stuff imho
[09:59] <ogra> slomo, doesnt help
[10:00] <ogra> people will use the crap he builds...
[10:00] <ogra> nearly every sources.list posted to -users has this repo in it
[10:01] <Nafallo> we need something like NotOurBug for Malone then :-)
[10:01] <ogra> the crappy ubuntuguide suggests people to add it etc
[10:01] <slomo> ogra: why? isn't it the users fault when he uses that stuff then? when someone installs something from marillat and everything breaks it isn't our fault too... and marillat's repo was in many sources.list which were posted everywhere
[10:01] <slomo> ogra: then we should get people to not recommend that
[10:01] <ogra> slomo, if the user gets advised by the community to use it ?
[10:01] <Treenaks> we  "Comment on this translation" and "Translation policy" pages for rosetta
[10:01] <bddebian> Nafallo: :-)
[10:01] <Treenaks> so you can explain WHY you translated X as Y, and people don't keep changing it back
[10:01] <Treenaks> mis-informed as they are
[10:02] <slomo> ogra: then we should get these guides to not recommend these repos or just with a big warning
[10:03] <ogra> slomo, i asked the guy who does the guide several times to fix the errors in the guide, i even gave him the right commands... he never added them
[10:03] <slomo> i can understand your anger... but imho we shouldn't feel responsible about breakages caused by other repositories
[10:03] <slomo> hmm
[10:06] <ogra> if it steals developer time 3 weeks before release its an issue
[10:06] <ogra> and i feel like helping desparate users, probably thats my fault...
[10:07] <Nafallo> if the user is desperate for version numbers, there is no hope anyway ;-).
[10:07] <slomo> ogra: no... it's good... but i would first fix real bugs caused by something we broke
[10:11] <bddebian> slomo: Yeah, so get fixing bugs!
[10:11] <slomo> bddebian: :P
[10:11] <slomo> bddebian: i'm on holidays currently... but i will after i'm back and after my exams
[10:12] <bddebian> slomo: I was joking.  You ROCK man :-)
[10:12] <slomo> bddebian: i currently have 3 ugly bugs assigned to me which probably all need more than an afternoon ;)
[10:12] <slomo> bddebian: sorry, i'm a bit tired atm ;)
[10:12] <bddebian> NP
[10:19] <havoc> so I have a mostly working breezy install working now
[10:19] <bddebian> Nice
[10:19] <bddebian> "mostly working" ? :-)
[10:20] <havoc> menus are messed up, and more importantly I can't get xawtv working
[10:20] <Nafallo> hmm, "mostly working install working"
[10:20] <Nafallo> intresting :-P
[10:20] <havoc> yeah, bad grammar
[10:20] <havoc> I think the xawtv prob may be xorg related though
[10:20] <havoc> some DGA thing
[10:20] <havoc> worked fine in mandrake on the same machine
[10:21] <havoc> I need my TV :)
[10:21] <Nafallo> hmm
[10:21] <Nafallo> who needs TV?
[10:21] <Nafallo> there are internet out there.
[10:33] <ogra> hmm, did debian already do the gcc4 transition for unstable ?
[10:34] <dholbach> parts of it i guess
[10:34] <dholbach> doko resynced some packages
[10:34] <ogra> kdelibs ?
[10:34] <dholbach> dunno
[10:34] <dholbach> a couple of packages
[10:35] <ogra> there is another foreign repo in this guys sources.list but that contains only original debian packages... i wonder if i was wrong...
[10:36] <mbreit> good evening everyone!
[10:39] <ogra> mbreit, dk ?
[10:39] <ogra> on holiday ?
[10:40] <dholbach> sun conference :)
[10:40] <dholbach> with slomo
[10:40] <ogra> ah
[10:41] <mbreit> ogra: yes, i am at jaoo
[10:41] <slomo> dholbach: not just sun
[10:41] <mbreit> sun is one of the main sponsors (as well as ms)
[10:42] <bddebian> Heya mbreit
[10:49] <ajmitch> bddebian: fyi, I'm hardly doing any bugfixing or uploads these days :P
[10:49] <bddebian> ajmitch: Well WTF d00d? ;-)
[10:56] <tseng> bradb: clicking "Ubuntu Tomboy" to edit the status of the big is still silly
[10:56] <bddebian> the big? ;-)
[10:56] <tseng> the bug
[10:57] <ogra> big bug ?
[10:57] <bddebian> hehe
[10:58] <bddebian> siretart: You still around?
[10:59] <bradb> tseng: it is indeed. / i fixed that by adding a "Edit Assignee/Status Details" link in the actions portlet,  but i was told to remove it.
[10:59] <bddebian> bradb: Who told you to remove it?
[11:00] <bddebian> That confused the crap out of me at first :-)
[11:00] <tseng> sigh, mpt
[11:01] <ogra> he was the glorious inventor of the "Someone else..." button in the screensaver :)
[11:02] <ogra> i had a ton of flame mails after i added that :)
[11:02] <bradb> tseng: heck no. the sab.
[11:02] <Nafallo> haha. that's the most silly button I've seen in Ubuntu yet ;-).
[11:02] <tseng> he seems awfully crackful for a "usability expert" is all
[11:02] <ogra> Nafallo, http://www.grawert.net/xss.html
[11:02] <ogra> just reworking the crap :)
[11:02] <bradb> tseng: who, mpt?
[11:02] <tseng> bradb: yes.
[11:03] <bradb> why do you say that?
[11:03] <tseng> ogra: much better!!
[11:03] <ogra> yup
[11:03] <ogra> thats from sab as well ;)
[11:03] <Nafallo> ogra: yay! upload dude! :-)
[11:03] <tseng> bradb: i dunno, i get the idea he is supposed to be full time usability work on LP
[11:03] <tseng> bradb: and launchpad LP is full of issues
[11:03] <ogra> Nafallo, thats a mocup i'm only half way done
[11:04] <ogra> mockup indeed
[11:04] <tseng> is Switch User better than Account?
[11:04] <ogra> i think it will end up with "Switch User"
[11:05] <Nafallo> well, atleast it's done for breezy :-P
[11:05] <ogra> thats an ongoing argument between jdub and mpt
[11:05] <bradb> tseng: yeah, he is full-time usability love. a lot of the major malone usability issues that need addressing are, in some cases, out of our control to make the call on, unfortunately.
[11:05] <tseng> bradb: i think thats crap too
[11:05] <bradb> tseng: even though you guys may complain, and be very right to complain, user input often isn't enough to change something :/
[11:05] <ogra> tseng, he does a good job, but sometimes he's just a bit to creative ;)
[11:06] <Nafallo> ogra: who is for Account? :-)
[11:06] <ogra> Nafallo, guess
[11:06] <Nafallo> ogra: mpt?
[11:06] <ogra> :)
[11:07] <Nafallo> baah. should be User :-)
[11:08] <ogra> it will most likely be user... but i'll wait until the dust settled between the two ;)
[11:11] <bddebian> Time to head home. Later gang
[11:12] <dholbach> see you, bddebian
[11:12] <havoc> bddebian: later
[11:14] <havoc> so now I have MDK 10.2, 10.1, 9.0, FC4, breezy, and debian 3.1 machines
[11:14] <havoc> what a mess
[11:14] <Nafallo> what a waste :-)
[11:14] <havoc> justa  mess for the time being
[11:14] <havoc> in the process of converting everything to debian and ubuntu
[11:15] <havoc> just takes time :(
[11:15] <havoc> I'm converting all my clients' machines too
[11:15] <havoc> debian on the server and ubuntu on all workstations
[11:15] <havoc> for *now* anyway
[11:16] <Nafallo> here we run breezy on both clients (me and my girlfriends) and hoary main on the server.
[11:16] <havoc> unfortunately I've needed some debian stuff that was a pain to get into ubuntu for some of the servers :(
[11:16] <havoc> like netatalk from deb testing
[11:16] <havoc> for a few Mac networks
[11:17] <havoc> base-ubuntu (or whatever it is) is a meta-package, right?
[11:18] <havoc> I'd like to put ubuntu on my vaio, but I need a new hdd for it first
[11:19] <Nafallo> ubuntu-base is a dummy package ;-)
[11:19] <Nafallo> ajmitch: morning :-)
[11:19] <havoc> ah
[11:19] <havoc> ajmitch: it's miller time here :)
[11:19] <Nafallo> ubuntu-standard is a meta-package
[11:19] <havoc> wwell, Leinenkugels time anyway
[11:19] <havoc> Nafallo: I'm just trying to figure out how to make an automated install
[11:20] <havoc> with a set list of packages
[11:20] <ajmitch> dholbach: I see your desktop team announcement now :)
[11:20] <dholbach> yeah :)
[11:21] <ajmitch> getting all the fame & glory (& bugs) ;)
[11:21] <Nafallo> havoc: then I'm not the right man to talk to :-P
[11:21] <havoc> Nafallo: ok :)
[11:22] <havoc> there's no rush on it anyway yet
[11:23] <ajmitch> havoc: this channel isn't really the place for it either, since we just work on universe devel :)
[11:23] <havoc> ajmitch: isn't is a packaging thing though?
[11:23] <havoc> wouldn't I have to make my own meta-package or something?
[11:24] <havoc> not that I want to bug anyone right now though
[11:24] <havoc> I know you all are very busy right now
[11:24] <havoc> I figure I have to learn how to packe stuff sooner or later though
[11:24] <Nafallo> havoc: IIRC no. ask google. should be something about this on ubuntu-devel AFAICR
[11:24] <havoc> Nafallo: ok
[12:01] <ajmitch> dholbach: GNOMEExperts is just for main stuff?
[12:02] <dholbach> it's for GNOME/Desktop stuff