=== bored2k [n=reb@186samana87.codetel.net.do]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== bored2k [n=reb@186samana87.codetel.net.do]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== bored2k [n=reb@186samana87.codetel.net.do]  has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving."] 
=== vhs [i=beta@c83-250-17-240.bredband.comhem.se]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== joolz_ [n=joolz@kiar.xs4all.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-69-105-233-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== joolz_ is now known as joolz
=== rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== smurfix [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== boglot [i=chaas@gw.workaround.org]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Simira [n=rpGirl@214.84-48-74.nextgentel.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jbailey_ [n=jbailey@testhaus.cns.utoronto.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== infinito [n=infinito@75.Red-80-59-227.staticIP.rima-tde.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jbailey [n=jbailey@testhaus.cns.utoronto.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== dholbach [i=foobar@i577B172C.versanet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== dholbach [i=foobar@i577B172C.versanet.de]  has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 
=== Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.76]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jbailey [n=jbailey@testhaus.cns.utoronto.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Seveas [n=seveas@dyn127.roaming.few.vu.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== terrex [n=terrex@84-122-83-29.onocable.ono.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jbailey_ [n=jbailey@testhaus.cns.utoronto.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089F7C2.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== segfault [i=carlos@prognus.com.br]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== doko_ [n=doko@dsl-084-059-100-109.arcor-ip.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sivang [n=sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de]  has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 
=== otep [n=paltok@AP-203.167.31.158.sysads.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Ju [n=Ju@AAubervilliers-153-1-36-123.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sociopath [n=adam@fetus.eater.org]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== intuit1tion [n=intuit@cpe-66-87-4-181.ut.sprintbbd.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== dataw0lf [n=dataw0lf@66.219.227.114]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== zakame [n=zakame@210.213.78.149]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== zakame [n=zakame@210.213.78.149]  has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] 
=== ubuntugeek [n=ryantroy@64.141.138.3]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Ju_ [n=Ju@AAubervilliers-153-1-36-123.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== segfault [i=carlos@prognus.com.br]  has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 
=== lamont [n=lamont@15.238.6.147]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== SquishyWaffle [n=Greg@130-127-66-32.lehotsky.clemson.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== arzajac [n=arzajac@modemcable201.119-200-24.mc.videotron.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== arzajac testing out timestamps in loggs
=== sivang [n=sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jdodson [n=jdodson@70-57-119-140.ptld.qwest.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[07:23] <arzajac> jdodson:  Hi Jon!
[07:24] <jdodson> hello.
[07:24] <jdodson> oh hey, i just realized its you andrew:)
=== jdodson is slow.
=== bored2k [n=reb@106samana87.codetel.net.do]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== bored2k [n=reb@106samana87.codetel.net.do]  has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving."] 
[07:41] <SquishyWaffle> looks like an interesting meeting today
[07:43] <jdodson> SquishyWaffle: yup.
=== jdodson [n=jdodson@70-57-119-140.ptld.qwest.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== SquishyWaffle is now known as gtaylor
=== thesaltydog [n=fabio@82.53.150.229]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Yann2 [n=Yann2@sab57-1-82-231-107-53.fbx.proxad.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.76]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== juliux [n=juliux@141.30.211.85]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== bored2k [n=reb@106samana87.codetel.net.do]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== bored2k [n=reb@106samana87.codetel.net.do]  has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving."] 
=== dholbach [i=foobar@i577B172C.versanet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== LinuxPeach [n=LinuxPea@c-67-171-201-213.hsd1.or.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jdodson [n=jdodson@70-57-119-140.ptld.qwest.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[08:29] <Belutz> is it 1.5hour more?
[08:29] <dholbach> yes
[08:29] <Belutz> :)
[08:29] <Belutz> it's 1:30am in here :(
[08:30] <Seveas> 20:30 here
[08:30] <Seveas> I'm watching MythBusters on discovery :)
[08:31] <Belutz> hehe
[08:31] <Belutz> i'll wait just for ubuntu :D
=== Nafallo [i=nafallo@unaffiliated/nafallo]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jdong [n=ubuntu@216.11.139.10]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[08:41] <Seveas> arzajac, there?
[08:44] <arzajac> Seveas:  yes.
[08:44] <Seveas> arzajac, did you read my comment next to your name on the Agenda?
[08:45] <arzajac> Seveas: Please defer until after forums issue ... Yes.  I understand.
[08:45] <Seveas> ok, just wanted to know whether you had objections against defering :)
[08:46] <arzajac> np
=== dand [n=dand@gw.datagroup.ro]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[08:52] <Belutz> one hour to go
[08:52] <Seveas> +8 minutes
[08:52] <Seveas> +20 minutes wait for the CC
[08:53] <Seveas> I'm gonna go write my PSA
[08:53] <Belutz> wew
[08:53] <Belutz> they always late? :p
[08:54] <Seveas> they tend to be 
[08:54] <Belutz> i see
[08:54] <Belutz> hmm
=== bojicas [n=bojicas@217.164.201.119]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[08:58] <rejden> can i discuss about l10n problem on this LoCo meeting?
[08:58] <Seveas> depends on the problem
[09:01] <Seveas> rejden, what's the problem?
[09:01] <rejden> we have myspell, ispell and openoffice.org-hyphenation localized into our native language
=== Schpenke [n=Schpenke@c-67-162-255-225.hsd1.tx.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:01] <Belutz> will this channel be set to moderated when the meeting starts?
[09:01] <rejden> and we want to have it in ubuntu
[09:01] <Seveas> rejden, that's not something for the CC
[09:02] <Seveas> you need to go to the developers meeting
[09:02] <rejden> ok, and can you point where i can discuus about this?
[09:02] <rejden> ok, thanks
[09:02] <Seveas> or simply send a mail to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com / file a bug at bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[09:03] <rejden> Seveas, i want to talk about it first, cos some of them are already aviable in ubuntu but they are somehow broken in someways
[09:03] <ogra> rejden, mail about it to -devel to discuss it
[09:03] <Seveas> ok, the (afaik) best thing for that is to send a mail to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com explaining it
[09:04] <rejden> ogra, i'll do
[09:04] <Seveas> and thanks for wanting to improve Ubuntu!
[09:04] <rejden> Seveas, it's must ,)
[09:07] <rejden> ok, and doing local ubuntushipit is for LoCo meet?
=== dcraven [n=dcraven@CPE000f3d5d5cd1-CM014340007726.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:08] <dholbach> Belutz: no, it won't, but we'll all stick to an agenda
=== tseng [n=tseng@brandonhale.us]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:09] <Belutz> ok
=== thoreauputic [n=prospero@wolax8-217.dialup.optusnet.com.au]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jdong__ [n=ubuntu@216.11.139.10]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== bojicas [n=bojicas@217.164.201.119]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== crimsun [i=crimsun@hacked.org]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== gtaylor [n=greg@130.127.137.170]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sturmkind [n=sturmkin@84.235.213.54]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:36] <sturmkind> hello
=== macgyver2 [n=eric@unaffiliated/macgyver2]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:38] <jdong__> sturmkind: greetings :)
[09:38] <jjesse> hello sturmkind and jdong__ 
=== jdong__ is now known as jdong
[09:39] <sivang> is CC meeting over now?
[09:39] <jdong> not started
=== markuman [n=markuman@p50927B07.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:39] <jdong> 20 more minutes-ish
[09:39] <sturmkind> hello jdong  und jjesse ;-)
[09:39] <jjesse> i was hoping it wasn't as i've missed the last 3
[09:39] <sturmkind> hello markuman 
[09:40] <mitsuhiko> ;)
[09:40] <mitsuhiko> hi all
[09:40] <juliux> hi mitsuhiko 
[09:40] <rejden> evening
[09:40] <jdong> afternoon
[09:41] <sturmkind> hello mitsuhiko ;-)
[09:41] <sturmkind> hey juliux 
[09:41] <sturmkind> night ;-)
=== umarmung [n=wichtel@p54AA2A0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:42] <rejden> jdong, hehe
[09:42] <sturmkind> hello umarmung 
[09:43] <umarmung> hi sascha
[09:43] <mitsuhiko> hi umarmung 
[09:43] <jjesse> you know its going to be my luck that as soon as we get started my boss will want me :(
[09:44] <umarmung> hi mitsuhiko 
[09:44] <Seveas> jjesse, I will move you to the front
[09:44] <thesaltydog> hi everybody
[09:44] <Seveas> jjesse, you're not on the list
[09:44] <sturmkind> hello thesaltydog 
[09:45] <jjesse> i was one of those that hadn't shown up at past meetings
[09:45] <jdong> how many permutations of hellos can we do in this room?
[09:45] <jdong> lol
[09:45] <jjesse> hmm looking at agenda
[09:45] <thesaltydog> jdong, n!
[09:45] <Belutz> good morning all :D
[09:45] <Seveas> jjesse, then add your name to the front of the memberlist now
[09:45] <jjesse> Seveas: on the agenda it says i needed to show up @ next meeting
[09:45] <thesaltydog> Belutz, morning??
=== ivoks [n=ivoks@lns01-1663.dsl.iskon.hr]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:46] <mitsuhiko> hi ivoks
[09:46] <ivoks> hi
[09:46] <Belutz> thesaltydog, yup... its 2:45am in here :p
[09:46] <Seveas> jjesse, yes, but in order to be considered you need to be on the list above that
[09:46] <jjesse> Seveas: ok thanks
[09:46] <ogra> thesaltydog, you should put up a list of your bugs on the wikipage ;) that helps a lot
[09:47] <sturmkind> Belutz: we have 9:49 pm ;-)
[09:47] <ivoks> ah... CC is now?
[09:47] <Belutz> sturmkind, wew... lucky for you :D
[09:47] <sturmkind> Belutz: yes no work the next hours ;-D
[09:47] <thesaltydog> ogra, a list of reported bugs?
[09:47] <mitsuhiko> hm. but school tomorrow :p
[09:47] <ogra> thesaltydog, sure
[09:47] <Nafallo> "Report from the next LoCoTeamMeeting"
[09:47] <Belutz> sturmkind, hehehe... i got java seminars at 8am
[09:47] <ivoks> ogra: evening
[09:47] <thesaltydog> ogra, you mean I am reporting too much? :-)
[09:47] <sturmkind> mitsuhiko: tomorrow is my free day
[09:48] <Seveas> VincentUntz, ShwnShifflett, StacyWebb, FabioMarcozza, SorenHansen, ZakElep, all here?
[09:48] <ogra> thesaltydog, call it "bugs i'm invloved with" ;)
[09:48] <Nafallo> isn't it better to report from the previous one?
[09:48] <mitsuhiko> sturmkind: lucky one
[09:48] <sturmkind> Belutz: have a lot of fun :-D
[09:48] <jdong> just in case I g2g too early, Mirrormax for all intents and purposes is down
[09:48] <ivoks> yay! :)
[09:48] <ogra> yay
[09:48] <Belutz> sturmkind, i will. they said they will give away solaris 10 dvds
[09:48] <jdong> :)
[09:48] <ogra> jdong, thank you soo much
=== ogra hugs jdong 
[09:49] <jdong> ogra: sure; in reality, Mirrormax has received no uploads since we went official
[09:49] <thesaltydog> Seveas, my name correct name is FabioMarzocca
[09:49] <jdong> ogra: FF 1.0.6 was backported before that happened
[09:49] <Seveas> thesaltydog, sorry about that
=== littlepaul [n=littlepa@p5084E8E5.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:49] <ogra> jdong, and sorry for the rant...
[09:49] <thesaltydog> Seveas, np
[09:49] <sturmkind> Belutz: hm nice but i'm not a very big friend of sun ^^
[09:49] <jdong> ogra: np; we all need wakeup calls once in a while :) (and the k3b problem isn't Backports related)
[09:49] <Seveas> ErdalRonahi?
[09:49] <jdong> Though one thing: Is it OK if I keep Mirrormax up to resolve FF 1.0.7?
[09:50] <Belutz> sturmkind, so am i, but it will do no harm trying :D
[09:50] <\sh> jdong: no
[09:50] <sturmkind> Belutz: hehe
[09:50] <jdong> that should keep those w/o archive.ubuntu.com backports from coming and bitching at you guys, though
[09:50] <\sh> jdong: your team should leave ff untouched...pitti is handling it
[09:50] <Seveas> jdong, no, just take it down completely, they'll wake up and see things have changed
[09:51] <jdong> Seveas: k, I'll issue svn rm in a sec
=== nybble [n=nybble@d36-29-58.home1.cgocable.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:51] <\sh> Seveas: the people are reading the forum, and they understand
[09:51] <sturmkind> 9 minutes
=== titus` [n=titus@AAubervilliers-153-1-36-123.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:51] <Seveas> sturmkind, you don't need to count :)
[09:51] <Belutz> nybble, hai :D
[09:51] <titus`> hi all!
[09:52] <nybble> hey belutz, hey titus
=== nalioth [n=Apple@pdpc/supporter/bronze/nalioth]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:52] <sturmkind> Seveas: just for fun :-D
[09:52] <sturmkind> hello titus` 
=== keyes [n=keyes@ip-253.net-82-216-31.bruay.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:52] <\sh> jdong: so can I take the point from the agenda?
[09:52] <\sh> remove it better to say?
[09:52] <jdong> sure; I'm removing the repos now
[09:53] <Seveas> jdong, rock!
[09:53] <jdong> ubuntubackports.org has already been updated to reflect this
[09:53] <jdong> :)
=== Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:53] <Seveas> </jdub_mode>
[09:53] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:53] <\sh> jdong: thx...
=== elmo [n=james@83-216-156-21.jamest747.adsl.metronet.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:53] <Seveas> that's one item less on the agenda
[09:53] <ubuntugeek> hello all
[09:53] <sivang> hey all
[09:53] <Treenaks> hi all
[09:54] <ogra> yo
[09:54] <jdong> ** watching all the D's scroll down the page :)
[09:54] <Treenaks> jdong: D's?
[09:54] <Seveas> can we skip more agenda meetings before the meeting starts? :)
[09:54] <jdong> LOL
[09:54] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:54] <sturmkind> hehe
[09:54] <jdong> Treenaks: svn rm status
[09:54] <rejden> Seveas, you wish :P
[09:54] <Seveas> Treenaks, svn del backports ;)
[09:54] <Treenaks> Seveas: \o/
[09:54] <ogra> :-D
[09:54] <jdong> k, no longer exists
[09:55] <jdong> I'll try to get into contact with mirror admins to propagate that quickly
[09:55] <ogra> jdong, so now on to your MOTUness *g*
[09:55] <Seveas> ogra, lol :)
[09:55] <jdong> ogra: lol, not that again
[09:55] <ogra> *G*
[09:55] <Seveas> always recruiting :)
[09:55] <dholbach> oh come on, jdong 
[09:55] <jdong> hey, Ubuntu benefits from it :)
[09:55] <dholbach> jdong: it's fun
[09:56] <jdong> but my decision may change later on this year when my schedule frees
[09:56] <ogra> yeah :)
[09:56] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:56] <Nafallo> ogra AND dholbach :-P
[09:56] <Nafallo> gl defending yourself jdong ;-)
[09:57] <nybble> :D
[09:57] <jdong> ogra: after that huge rant about me ignoring Backports, I decided my schedule doesn't have many holes :)
[09:57] <jdong> Nafallo: thx
=== drogoh [i=drogoh@ca1.chasingsol.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:57] <\sh> jdong: actually we all solved the problem internally...so everything is fine, nobody died :)
[09:57] <ivoks> jdong: \sh blog it :)
[09:57] <\sh> ivoks: I will
[09:57] <jdong> \sh: ?
[09:57] <jdong> Anyone got ShaneAu of Mirrormax's e-mail?
[09:58] <ivoks> \sh: Please shoutdown ubuntu-backports :)
[09:58] <jdong> ivoks: lol
[09:58] <\sh> jdong: after the discussions on -backports ml...now everything is fine..and we have our peace again..
[09:58] <ivoks> jdong: with 4 ! :)
[09:58] <sivang> are you discussing backports now?
[09:58] <\sh> jdong: well..actually you can ask mitsuhiko and others from our german support forum how it was during the weekend :)
[09:59] <Seveas> \begin{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
[09:59] <Seveas> Hello everybody, welcome to the Community Council Meeting. The meeting will start in a few minutes (hopefully). The agenda for today can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda Please stick to the agenda and don't go off-topic CC meetings take lang enough already. All member candidates, make sure your wikipage is up-to-date and prepare a 3 line introduction (which you will have 
[09:59] <Seveas> to give in this channel) describing your past contributions to Ubuntu, your plans and your vision of the Ubuntu feature. Make sure you ALREADY are on the launchpad Ubuntu members page and that you upload a signed copy of the CoC as soon as possible. Everybody who has an item on the agenda please prepare a few lines describing it so you can easily paste it in the channel later to give everybody an 
[09:59] <Seveas> overview. LocoTeam leaders, prepare a few lines in which you describe the status of your team, what your team is currently doing and what the plans are.
[09:59] <Seveas> \end{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
[09:59] <markuman> urgh
[09:59] <mitsuhiko> hm
[09:59] <mitsuhiko> sivang: you're to late
=== zakame [n=zakame@210.213.80.213]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:00] <Seveas> zakame, are you ZakElep?
[10:00] <nalioth> Seveas: you didnt use your announcer voice
[10:00] <zakame> hello all
[10:00] <zakame> Seveas: yes =)
[10:00] <jdong> let's spend another 10 minutes saying hi :)
[10:00] <sturmkind> lol
[10:00] <Kamion> ok folks, please less chatter; I'd have been here earlier except there was so much backlog to read through on an 80x25 terminal :)
[10:01] <\sh> 20:00 UTC 
[10:01] <sivang> Kamion: lost X ? :)
=== vuntz [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:01] <markuman> CoC on signed on launchpad with "Find and Import" gpgkey????
[10:01] <markuman> and what 3 lines should i write on my wiki page?
[10:01] <rejden> i don't get that Find and Import thing
[10:01] <Seveas> rejden, markuman -> wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[10:01] <Kamion> markuman: please ask for help on launchpad elsewhere, such as #launchpad
[10:01] <Seveas> and please as of now, no off-topic chatter
=== smurf hands seveas a big gavel
=== mvo waves to markuman 
[10:02] <Seveas> we will wait for mako and/or sabdfl to arrive so we can start
[10:02] <markuman> "find and import" makes an error to me!             Sorry, a system error occurred
[10:02] <elmo> mako sends his apologies
[10:02] <Kamion> markuman: #launchpad please!
[10:02] <jjesse> Seveas:  my boss needs me i hate missing these meetings
[10:02] <sivang> Seveas: you're a CC member ?
[10:02] <elmo> so we're only waiting for sabdfl
[10:02] <markuman> hm ok sry
[10:02] <elmo> sivang: no
[10:03] <Seveas> CC members are elmo, kamion, sabdfl and mako
=== zed [n=zed@zed.leads-you.to.orgasm.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sabdfl [n=mark@wbs-146-179-81.telkomadsl.co.za]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:03] <sabdfl> evening all
[10:04] <ivoks> evening sabdfl 
[10:04] <zed> good evening too ;)
[10:04] <jdong> evening :)
[10:04] <thesaltydog> sabdfl, ciao
[10:04] <zakame> sabdfl: hello
[10:04] <sivang> hi there sabdfl 
[10:04] <ubuntugeek> hello
[10:04] <sabdfl> sorry, brief bandwidth all
[10:04] <sturmkind> hi sabdfl 
[10:04] <jdong> lol
[10:04] <sabdfl> outage, even
[10:04] <Seveas> evening sabdfl
[10:04] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[10:04] <LinuxPeach> hello hello :)
[10:04] <\sh> evenign sabdfl 
[10:04] <shawarma> Hi there
[10:04] <mvo> hello
[10:04] <Seveas> will you lead the meeting in makos absence?
[10:04] <sabdfl> sure
[10:04] <sabdfl> elmo, Kamion: around?
[10:04] <Seveas> OK, then it's time for the naming round
[10:04] <elmo> sabdfl: yeah
=== Seveas == Dennis Kaarsemaker
[10:04] <Yann2> Yann Hamon, Ubuntu-fr
=== Nafallo == ChristianBjlevik
=== sabdfl => Mark Shuttleworth
=== \sh == StephanHermann
[10:05] <mitsuhiko> hi sabdfl
=== smurf is MatthiasUrlichs
=== shawarma == SorenHansen
=== dand is Dan Damian
=== ogra <- OliverGrawert
=== Belutz == Andi Darmawan
=== nalioth is Marek Spruell
=== sivang = Sivan Greenberg
=== Treenaks is Martijn van de Streek
=== mvo Michael Vogt
[10:05] <sturmkind> == Sascha Morr
=== jdodson jdodson -> Jon Dodson
[10:05] <vuntz> == Vincent Untz
=== mitsuhiko Armin Ronacher
=== arzajac == Andrew Zajac
=== ubuntugeek is Ryan Troy
=== thoreauputic is Peter Garrett
=== LinuxPeach = Kassetra
=== ivoks is Ante Karamatic
=== Kamion is Colin Watson
[10:05] <thesaltydog> thesalydog -> Fabio Marzocca
[10:05] <jdong> jdong = jdong / John Dong?
=== zakame Zak Elep
=== otep Joseph Mercado
=== littlepaul Andreas Brunner
=== elmo is James Troup
=== dholbach is Daniel Holbach
=== mvo waves to littlepaul 
[10:05] <markuman>  == Markus Bergholz
=== rejden Jan Husar
=== daejuan [n=daejuan@d47-69-170-49.col.wideopenwest.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== bojicas Silviu Bojica
[10:06] <Seveas> We seem to be missing a Kamion
=== titus` David Larlet, ubuntu-fr
[10:06] <sabdfl> wow. Hellloooo Houstonnnn!
=== Schpenke == Shawn Shifflett
[10:06] <sabdfl> always wanted to say that
[10:06] <jjesse> Seveas: I'm back boss is done w/ me
[10:06] <ogra> i lover this coulorful intro every meeting :)
=== littlepaul waves to mvo
[10:06] <mitsuhiko> ^^
[10:06] <elmo> Seveas: no, he's here and announced himself
[10:06] <sivang> sabdfl: lol
[10:06] <Seveas> I just seemed to have missed him :)
[10:06] <sabdfl> ok, down to the business at hand
[10:06] <ivoks> :)
[10:06] <Nafallo> ogra: :-)
[10:07] <Seveas> First up: Dallas Team
[10:07] <Schpenke> Hello.  I'm the contact for the Dallas Team.
[10:08] <Seveas> Hi Schpenke, can you tell us more about th Dallasteam?
[10:08] <sabdfl> hey Schpenke, tell us about your activity?
[10:08] <Schpenke> The Dallas Team currently consists of a total of 4 members all of whom I work with professionally.
[10:08] <sabdfl> are there local LUG's?
[10:09] <Schpenke> We haven't yet contributed to any coding project, but we're very anxious to start spreading Ubuntu media at various local LUG meetings.
[10:09] <Schpenke> Also, contributing time to helping maintain the Wiki is something we'll probably start doing shortly after this meeting.
[10:09] <sabdfl> at UBZ it would be good to figure out how we can better support LoCo teams
[10:09] <Yann2> UBZ?
[10:09] <sabdfl> smurfix has got us off to a good start, but i think we need to ramp up loco team support
[10:09] <dholbach> Yann2: UbuntuDownZero
[10:10] <sabdfl> UbuntuBelowZero
[10:10] <Treenaks> Yann2: UbuntuBelowZero
[10:10] <sabdfl> conference in Montreal, Oct 29-Nov6
=== dholbach pipes innocently
[10:10] <sabdfl> with launchpad week the following week
[10:10] <Schpenke> We have already set some time to speak with our local technology board.  Not technically a LUG, but not a bad place to start.
[10:10] <Schpenke> That will be the 1st week in Oct.
[10:10] <Yann2> sabdfl > we came up with the idea of a locoteam team at the locoteam meeting
[10:11] <sivang> IIRC, there is already one BOF going to be dedicated to LocoTeams
=== joolz__ [n=joolz@kiar.xs4all.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:11] <Yann2> but that's off topic yet
[10:11] <Seveas> are you in contact with other US locoteams Schpenke  
[10:11] <sabdfl> for example, we should have standard materials to help LoCo teams talk to the local councils, business forums, regulators, media
[10:11] <Schpenke> No, unfortunately not.  This is the 1st contact I've had with any Ubuntu groups.
[10:11] <Treenaks> sabdfl: cool idea!
[10:11] <Schpenke> I am on the mailing list, though.
[10:11] <Yann2> sabdfl > there was the idea of Conference packs?
[10:11] <sabdfl> well, welcome aboard
[10:11] <Seveas> Schpenke, ah, well, get in touch with other US based teams then, there are a few :)
[10:11] <Schpenke> Thank you.
[10:11] <sabdfl> Yann2: yes, we'll still do those
[10:11] <Seveas> welcome on the Ubuntu ship
[10:12] <sabdfl> i'm thinking of a LocoPack
[10:12] <mitsuhiko> sabdfl: this would be very cool :)
[10:12] <Seveas> sabdfl, Yann2 I hate to interrupt but we have lots to do, can we please follow the agenda
[10:12] <sabdfl> ok. welcome aboard Schpenke
=== rbelem_ [n=rodrigo@200.246.97.164]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:12] <Schpenke> Thanks all.
[10:12] <sabdfl> PhilipineTeam?
[10:12] <Seveas> jsgotangco is not here
[10:12] <smurf> I don't think they'll be here today
[10:12] <sabdfl> RomanianTeam?
[10:12] <Seveas> RomanianTeam - dand 
[10:13] <smurf> it's 3AM or so there
[10:13] <dand> hi, we've presented ourselves about a month ago
=== sven-tek_gaim [n=sven-tek@p508E6C62.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:13] <dand> I'm here for smurf :)
[10:13] <Belutz> it's 3am in here too
=== sven-tek_gaim wasn hier los
[10:13] <Belutz> :(
[10:13] <sabdfl> smurf: that's you
[10:13] <zakame> apparently :(
[10:13] <dand> if you want I can give you a small update, but mainly I'm here for getting official  :)
[10:13] <Seveas> update would be nice
[10:13] <sabdfl> dand: any new developments in the past month? do you guys have a virtual server?
=== ian_brasil [n=vern@pintada.proamazon.com.br]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:14] <sabdfl> hey ian_brasil
[10:14] <dand> sure, bojicas is working on a manual: see http://wiki.ubuntu.ro/
[10:14] <ian_brasil> ola
[10:14] <dand> we've also reached 100% localization with gnome and we're 25% into openoffice: http://codemonkey.ro/~dand/openoffice/status/
[10:14] <ian_brasil> sabdfl:ola
[10:14] <Seveas> dand, great!
[10:14] <dand> we've got in touch with local magazines and more groups
[10:14] <sabdfl> the localisation work is fantastic. well done dand
[10:15] <Seveas> go poke the smurf then ;)
[10:15] <dand> and we started a logo contest: http://www.ubuntu.ro/comunitate/sondaje/2005/logo/
[10:15] <dand> :)
[10:15] <zakame> sabdfl: can I speak for the PhilippineTeam?
[10:15] <dand> thanks everyone
[10:15] <smurf> *I* poked *him*, that's why they're here ;-)
[10:15] <sabdfl> zakame: certainly, in good faith go ahead
[10:15] <dand> the next challenge is having a great coverage of breezy in press and in LUGs
[10:15] <dand> that's why a LoCoPack would really come in handy
[10:15] <zakame> sabdfl: thanks!
=== sabdfl makes a note to get breezy details to Locos in advance of release
[10:15] <dand> that's all, I think
[10:16] <dand> oh
[10:16] <dand> we could use CD artwork
[10:16] <sabdfl> thanks dand, awesome progress!
[10:16] <sabdfl> cd artwork is done for breezy
[10:16] <dand> since it could be an option to produce some of the CDs here (localized maybe)
[10:16] <sabdfl> happy to publish that
[10:16] <dand> great
[10:16] <Seveas> sabdfl, please do
[10:16] <sabdfl> dand: could you ping silbs tomorrow, UK time?
[10:16] <sabdfl> she has the artwork
[10:16] <Seveas> put it on the fridge as a D-I-Y breezy-cd-kit :)
[10:17] <dand> sabdfl: ok I'll send an email
[10:17] <sabdfl> i'll approve publishing it, so people can D-I-Y official-looking CD's
[10:17] <sabdfl> to beat the shipit rush
[10:17] <sabdfl> dand: jane.silber@ubuntu.com
[10:17] <sabdfl> copy in this discussion for context
[10:17] <dand> sabdfl: thanks
[10:17] <sabdfl> thank you!
[10:17] <sabdfl> zakame: rock on
[10:18] <zakame> sabdfl: thank you
[10:18] <sabdfl> ps dand: nice logos!
[10:18] <zakame> in good faith, I can tell you that we worked (and are still working) on localization
[10:19] <dand> sabdfl: Romanian users are very creative apparenly :)
[10:19] <sabdfl> zakame: how many languages are spoken in the philippines?
[10:21] <sabdfl> ping?
[10:21] <mitsuhiko> sabdfl: he's counting ^^
[10:21] <sturmkind> hm must by very much ^^
[10:21] <sabdfl> is my bandwidth dead again?
[10:21] <zakame> sabdfl: there are many
[10:21] <thesaltydog> a long list...
[10:21] <sabdfl> ok
[10:21] <zakame> mitsuhiko: indeed
[10:21] <sabdfl> which languages are you focusing on for localisation?
[10:22] <zakame> sabdfl: we are working mainly towards l10n to Filipino/Tagalog
[10:23] <zakame> sabdfl: in the launchpad we're almost done with aboutubuntu, and I think the next is the faqguide
[10:23] <Seveas> great, docs should go first!
[10:23] <sabdfl> super
[10:23] <sabdfl> thank you zakame
[10:23] <sabdfl> it must be late over there
=== sivang notes it's a major progress having the docs translatable through launchpad.
[10:24] <zakame> yes, around 4 am PHT
[10:24] <sabdfl> thanks for coming
[10:24] <sabdfl> and good work!
=== Seveas agrees with sivang, launchpad rocks at times when it's fast
[10:24] <sabdfl> do we have anyone fomr the KurdishTeam?
[10:24] <zakame> sivang: indeed, it is convenient and elegant
[10:24] <zakame> sabdfl: salamat! =)
[10:25] <smurf> ErdalRonahi: ?
[10:25] <markuman> there are ~70 different languages on the philipines : wikipedia.org
[10:25] <Seveas> seems not to be here
[10:25] <mitsuhiko> markuman: omg. that's much
[10:25] <smurf> OK, next time
[10:26] <zakame> markuman: yes, that's why we're first concentrating on Tagalog
=== bored2k [n=reb@106samana87.codetel.net.do]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:26] <ogra> new memebers ?
[10:26] <Seveas> vuntz, ?
[10:26] <vuntz> yes
[10:26] <vuntz> so, we were told to write a 3 line introduction. I hope long lines are okay ;-)
[10:26] <vuntz> here's a quick list of contributions I made to Ubuntu: some bug triage and bug reports, general help on the mailing list, some help with laptop support (testing and adding features, at least for mine ;-)), help with mentoring a summer of code. I also do some advocacy for Ubuntu in conferences. My most important contribution is with GNOME since I'm a GNOME hacker and I help as much as I can fixing Ubuntu bugs in GNOME and implementing some features
[10:26] <vuntz> , helping with the GNOME integration for Ubuntu and answering questions.
[10:26] <vuntz> what I want to do for Ubuntu in the future : work in the desktop team, continuing GNOME integration in Ubuntu, trying to make bug days more attractive and effective, and general advocacy. I'm particularly interested in french speaking regions, and I think I'm starting to be a good advocate there (thanks to my GNOME-FR experience). Just starting, I'm not perfect yet, of course :-)
[10:26] <vuntz> since I'm finishing my PhD thesis, I don't have as much time as I'd like so I probably won't be able to do all of this ;-)
[10:26] <vuntz> that's three lines :-)
[10:27] <sabdfl> wow, thank you!
[10:27] <Seveas> vuntz, which SOC project?
=== sivang high fives vuntz :)
[10:27] <sabdfl> for the contribution, and also writing it up so comprehensively
[10:27] <vuntz> Manu Cornet's one
[10:27] <rejden> i have few lines too
[10:27] <Seveas> which one is that =)
[10:27] <ogra> vuntz, did you also plan some GDM work for dapper ?
[10:27] <Seveas> rejden, wait your turn
[10:27] <ogra> *didnt
[10:27] <sabdfl> vuntz: which laptop? and did you help fix anything interesting for it?
[10:27] <vuntz> Manu created the new "add to panel" dialog
[10:27] <rejden> Seveas, sure, just mentioning it...
[10:27] <Seveas> vuntz, ah rock!
[10:28] <vuntz> (and he also added the RootRequired for menus)
[10:28] <dholbach> DesktopTeam! :)
[10:28] <vuntz> ogra: not sure I'll have time for GDM for dapper
[10:28] <vuntz> sabdfl: asus M6Ne
[10:28] <ogra> sad
[10:28] <Seveas> vuntz, are you a member of ubuntu-fr already? 
[10:28] <Yann2> (never heard of him)
[10:28] <vuntz> sabdfl: I made the hotkeys work and wrote some code that mjg59 probably used for the hotkeys that don't generate events
[10:28] <vuntz> Seveas: no
[10:29] <vuntz> I didn't have time to involve in ubuntu-fr yet
[10:29] <vuntz> but I'd like to
[10:29] <sivang> vuntz also gave feedback for launchpad integration, and found a couple of peculiarities there :)
=== DJ_Max [n=daejuan@d47-69-170-49.col.wideopenwest.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:29] <Yann2> vuntz > there's lot to do, just pm me when you got time ;)
[10:29] <vuntz> Yann2: this is in my TODO list, especially for advocacy ;-)
[10:29] <ogra> and vuntz is quite active o the -devel list :)
[10:29] <sabdfl> TheFridge looks yummy...
[10:29] <Kamion> I've been impressed with vuntz's continued contribution to Ubuntu, helping us out with GNOME
=== Seveas too
[10:30] <ogra> sabdfl, have you submitted a pic of you fridge already ?
[10:30] <sivang> sabdfl: yeah :) real nice to have something like that finally
[10:30] <Kamion> more than happy to ack him for membership
[10:30] <sabdfl> well, +1 from me for vuntz on membership, on the basis of strong and consistent presence
[10:30] <Seveas> 2 down :)
[10:30] <sabdfl> especially bug days and advocacy
[10:30] <elmo> ack
[10:30] <titus`> vuntz, you're a dev but not really involved in ubuntu-fr...
[10:30] <Seveas> vuntz, congratz!
[10:30] <ogra> yay vuntz 
[10:30] <Seveas> welcome abord the ubuntu ship
[10:30] <sabdfl> ogra: my fridge is well disguised
[10:30] <dholbach> he was one of the first guys to hit #ubuntu-desktop :)
[10:30] <ivoks> vuntz: yay
[10:30] <ogra> vuntz, now on to MOTU !
[10:30] <sabdfl> ok! next up?
[10:30] <vuntz> titus`: not involved in ubuntu-fr, yes. But I'm a big advocate for GNOME-FR :-) and next goal is ubuntu-fr
[10:31] <vuntz> thanks guys
[10:31] <vuntz> ogra: well, this is a possible goal too ;-)
=== joolz__ is now known as joolz
[10:31] <ogra> yay
[10:31] <Seveas> Next up: Schpenke (ShawnShifflett)
[10:31] <Schpenke> I introduced myself briefly during my DallasTeam LoCo intro so I won't ramble.  I'm very much looking forward to contributing time towards some coding projects as well as helping maintain the Ubuntu Wiki.  My vision of Ubuntu's future closely resembles what I've seen here so far.  Cooperation between all Ubuntu members and users along with free, open lines of communication.  This is a fantastic culture and fantastic project
[10:31] <Schpenke> Not quite as awesome as Vuntz, I'm afraid.  ;)
[10:31] <sabdfl> Schpenke: what languages do you enjoy coding in?
[10:31] <titus`> vuntz, on attend ta participation... comme celle de ploum 
[10:32] <sabdfl> have you worked on any open source projects before?
[10:32] <Schpenke> C, Perl, Python right now.
[10:32] <sabdfl> and are there any aspects of the distro you are particularly keen to work on?
[10:32] <Schpenke> I have, but nothing public.  Most of my work has been focus on my job.
[10:32] <sabdfl> schnaaaake! *cough*
[10:32] <ogra> lol
[10:32] <Seveas> Schpenke, please note that membership is a sign of recognition of past work, I don't see any real contributions yet on your wiki... Can you elborate a bit more about what you have done?
[10:32] <sabdfl> what does your day job entail?
[10:33] <Schpenke> sabdfl: My day job is data security, code review, and hardening for our developers.
[10:33] <Seveas> Schpenke, join the MOTU security team!
[10:33] <Seveas> they need people :)
[10:33] <Schpenke> Seveas: That would be something I would enjoy, no problem.
[10:33] <\sh> yes...we need security people :)
[10:33] <ivoks> army even :)
[10:33] <sabdfl> ok.
[10:33] <ogra> absolutely !
[10:34] <Kamion> if you can stand doing code review in your spare time too :-), that would be a great contribution
[10:34] <Schpenke> ;)  I'm a nerd by nature.  I review code to relax.
[10:34] <dholbach> Schpenke: #ubuntu-motu and wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU might be something you want to look at :)
[10:34] <Schpenke> Thanks dholbach.  I'll take a look.
[10:34] <ogra> Schpenke, so join is to slack a bit ;) 
[10:34] <sabdfl> Schpenke: as Seveas said, membership is in recognition of a real existing contribution, so while i think you are off to a good start (a Loco team is awesome) can I ask you to come back in a month to six weeks, to tell us about projects you've undertaken?
[10:34] <Seveas> Schpenke, join that team, hack on for a month (if you survive) and then re-apply, everyone who can stand a month of MOTU deserves membership :)
[10:34] <Schpenke> Heh.. slack works too,
[10:35] <Schpenke> sabdfl: Sure, I can reapply.
[10:35] <\sh> Seveas: *rotfl* don't scare them away
[10:35] <sabdfl> the MOTU team would welcome your help, or progress on the Loco front
[10:35] <thesaltydog> Seveas, that's really true!
[10:35] <sabdfl> either would qualify you for membership
[10:35] <ivoks> ah, we look so bad :/
[10:35] <thesaltydog> ivoks, yes.
[10:35] <Seveas> Schpenke, great to have you aboard, see you in a few meetings for your membership :)
[10:35] <sabdfl> but we usually hold off until someone has shown a substantial contribution, on code, community, advocacy, bugs, translations... any area
[10:35] <Schpenke> Ok.  I'll revisit again in a month or so.
=== FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:36] <sabdfl> cool. stacy webb?
[10:36] <ogra> next ?
[10:37] <Seveas> didn't see that person yet...
[10:37] <Seveas> (today I mean)
[10:37] <Kamion> Schpenke: thanks!
[10:37] <Schpenke> No worries, you're welcome.
[10:38] <Belutz> hmm it's hard to become a member 
[10:38] <ogra> Belutz, not really
[10:38] <Seveas> ok, StacyWebb not here, thesaltydog you're up
[10:38] <thesaltydog> here I am
[10:38] <sabdfl> Belutz: not hard, just takes commitment
[10:38] <thesaltydog> I am a member of the italian community, member of the italian Translation group in Rosetta and I support ubuntu-it mailing list and irc channel. I also have a deep activity in bug triaging and reporting either in Bugzilla and in Malone. REVU uploader.
[10:38] <thesaltydog> I have coded two applications (currently in debian and ubuntu): Boot-Up Manager (bum) and Baobab.
[10:38] <thesaltydog> Currently, I am also setting up the new community web site. Here is a demo page still on my server: http://ubuntu-it.homelinux.org
[10:38] <thesaltydog> My vision: I aim to start importing Ubuntu into work-related worlds (offices, organizations, home work). I have realized that major obstacle to this process is the lack of correct information in those environments. They seems not to have an option: but Ubuntu is the right (and the better) option.
[10:39] <thesaltydog> ...those were my few lines. As Seveas asked.
[10:39] <sabdfl> thesaltydog: what's your real name?
[10:39] <thesaltydog> Fabi oMarzocca
[10:39] <thesaltydog> Fabio
[10:39] <Kamion> thesaltydog: I remember we had some debates about branding a while back; did those all end up resolved to your satisfaction? Just want to make sure there's no bad blood there from the debates :-)
[10:40] <Seveas> siretart, he uploads to REVU, any comments from you about quality?
[10:40] <ogra> thesaltydog, why do you think its hard to survive at MOTU ?
[10:40] <thesaltydog> Kamion, everything is fine.
[10:40] <Kamion> thesaltydog: cool, glad to hear it
[10:40] <sabdfl> vuntz: could you join the ubuntumembers team in LP please?
[10:40] <thesaltydog> I have recently worked with several friends in MOTU, they can say.
[10:40] <thesaltydog> ogra, I was joking. But it is an hard work.
[10:40] <ogra> thesaltydog, thats true :)
[10:40] <thesaltydog> I follow you all each day on #ubuntu-motu
[10:41] <vuntz> sabdfl: I already applied, iirc
[10:41] <dholbach> i reviewed two of his packages and worked with him on them
[10:41] <ogra> thesaltydog is often around and helps if he can there
[10:41] <sabdfl> vuntz: i don't see you in the list?
[10:41] <Kamion> sabdfl: I approved him earlier
[10:41] <sabdfl> ah, you're approved :-)
[10:41] <Kamion> immediately after the conversation above
[10:42] <sabdfl> vuntz: if you do the Code of Conduct dance, your email will be activated within a day or so
[10:42] <sabdfl> it shows up automatically for elmo, iirc
[10:42] <vuntz> sabdfl: Code of Conduct is already signed ;-)
[10:43] <Kamion> dholbach: how did that work out?
[10:43] <sabdfl> thesaltydog: how active is the local linux community in your area?
[10:43] <dholbach> thesaltydog worked hard to get his packages/software up to scratch
[10:43] <sabdfl> vuntz: ok, perfect!
[10:43] <thesaltydog> sabdfl, we are re-arrangin forum, web and wiki. The community is growing so much
[10:43] <dholbach> Kamion: we had quite some difficulties within the communication (motu team <-> fabio), but i daresay we're quite happy together now, are we fabio? :)
[10:44] <sabdfl> thesaltydog: do you think it works well to have Loco web sites, wiki's, community forums etc?
[10:44] <thesaltydog> dholbach, yep!
[10:44] <sabdfl> can you suggest anything that we could do to help the Loco teams
[10:44] <Kamion> dholbach: good, that sort of thing needs to be resolved before people start operating on their own
[10:44] <thesaltydog> sabdfl, local communities needs to have a local common point, 
=== Simira [n=rpGirl@214.84-48-74.nextgentel.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:44] <thesaltydog> can be the web, the forum or the wiki..
[10:45] <thesaltydog> It is important that
[10:45] <sabdfl> ok
[10:45] <thesaltydog> some of the locoteam members has strict contact
[10:45] <Belutz> what if the loco team in my country is not active?
[10:45] <thesaltydog> with the international community, to constantly report news and business
[10:45] <sabdfl> thesaltydog: any comments on malone and rosetta yet?
[10:45] <thesaltydog> I like malone more than bugzilla. It is much modern.
[10:45] <thesaltydog> Some problem in the "search" functionality
[10:46] <thesaltydog> Rosetta is very handy
=== Simza [n=rpGirl@214.84-48-74.nextgentel.com]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:46] <thesaltydog> If there is a vote to move bugzilla in malone, I will vote
[10:46] <Seveas> thesaltydog, it will happen
[10:46] <Seveas> (the move)
[10:46] <sabdfl> thesaltydog: can i quote you on the malone vs bugzilla comment?
[10:46] <sabdfl> ;-)
[10:47] <thesaltydog> Suggestion: could we add a auto e-mail functionality in malone?
[10:47] <Seveas> once malone is working as it should
[10:47] <thesaltydog> sabdfl, of course
[10:47] <Seveas> thesaltydog, it has, you can subscribe to bugs
[10:47] <thesaltydog> Seveas, no I mean something that will add a Tag, or a bug by mail. Like Debian does.
[10:47] <zakame> usertags
[10:48] <Yann2> [Please let's move on :/] 
=== ogra looks for malone on the agenda
[10:48] <ogra> :)
[10:48] <Seveas> OK, any opinions, votes from the CC on thesaltydog ?
[10:49] <sabdfl> thesaltydog: you can file bugs by email
[10:49] <sabdfl> it's just not well documented
[10:49] <thesaltydog> on malone?
[10:49] <sabdfl> yes
[10:49] <sabdfl> Yann2: ok
=== FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:49] <Kamion> so I'm ok with thesaltydog for membership; I'd like him to keep working with the other MOTUs and make sure they're happy that all communication issues are properly ironed out, but otherwise fine
[10:49] <sabdfl> so, +1 from me for thesaltydog, for translations, and bug work
[10:49] <thesaltydog> sabdfl, ok I will look for it. If there is a lack in malone, it is in the docs...:-)
[10:50] <sabdfl> 2 out of 3
[10:50] <Seveas> 2 down already, looking good :)
[10:50] <sabdfl> elmo?
[10:50] <elmo> ack
[10:50] <thesaltydog> thank you very much, mates..
[10:50] <Kamion> approved in lp
[10:50] <sabdfl> err, ack +1?
[10:50] <Seveas> Next: shawarma (Soren Hansen)
[10:50] <shawarma> Hi!
[10:50] <thesaltydog> sabdfl, I have already signed the CoC
[10:50] <elmo> sabdfl: yes, ack = +1, nack = -1, dunno = 0
[10:51] <sabdfl> gotcha
[10:51] <shawarma> Well, I already applied a few months back, but I was told to reapply later, when I had made a substantial contribution... Seveas convinced me that was now, so here I am. :-)
[10:51] <tseng> elmo: 0 = enq
[10:51] <Seveas> shawarma, tell us about these contributions
[10:51] <shawarma> My wiki page is pretty up to date, but I could give a really short version here?
[10:51] <Kamion> oh, libmms, I knew your name was familiar
[10:51] <Kamion> (yes, it's in main now)
[10:52] <tseng> shawarma: please.
[10:52] <shawarma> Well, I've been fixing a few bugs here and there on software that I use myself GNOME, Evolution, vpnc..
[10:53] <shawarma> I help out on #ubuntu every once in a while.
[10:53] <shawarma> I package stuff, that I find is missing.
[10:53] <shawarma> I'm planning on arranging a huge install party at the university.
[10:53] <sabdfl> what's libmms?
[10:53] <Seveas> that's for listening to mms:// streams
[10:53] <shawarma> The university actually recommends the students to run Linux, and I intend to be ready to hand out a boatload of CD's to the hungering masses, when they want to switch.
[10:54] <sabdfl> mms?
[10:54] <shawarma> sabdfl: multimedia streams.
[10:54] <shawarma> sabdfl: A lot of online radiostations use it.
[10:54] <sabdfl> rfc standard? ok, cool
[10:54] <shawarma> sabdfl:No.
[10:54] <shawarma> sabdfl: Proprietary shit, but nice to have.
[10:54] <nalioth> sabdfl: microsoft multimedia streams
[10:54] <shawarma> (hehe, I just said shit to the boss)
[10:54] <sabdfl> but with an open source implementation
[10:54] <shawarma> sabdfl: right.
[10:55] <Seveas> and no patent issues I presume 
[10:55] <sabdfl> shawarma: if you become a member, you get to say "fuck" too
[10:55] <shawarma> sabdfl: LOL!
[10:55] <sabdfl> ok, any comments from the MOTU?
[10:55] <dholbach> i wonder what MOTUs say all day? :)
[10:55] <Seveas> sabdfl, au contraire, members have to adhere to the CoC and forget the F word ;)
[10:55] <ivoks> dholbach: fcking shut
[10:55] <shawarma> Seveas: Well, IANAL, but other projects used the code before it was rolled into libmms, so I suppose they've reviewed the legal stuff.
[10:55] <dholbach> shawarma: you worked together with slomo?
=== FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[10:56] <shawarma> dholbach: Yup, on the libmms-thing, yes.
[10:56] <Kamion> Seveas: pitti did a brief review and couldn't find anything, although I don't think he'd claim it was exhaustive
[10:56] <dholbach> unfortunately slomo isn't here
[10:56] <sabdfl> shawarma: best get elmo to review any licence on that front
[10:56] <dholbach> but he was quite keen to get *mms* in and reviewed it
[10:56] <shawarma> sabdfl: He's a lawyer?
[10:56] <sabdfl> shawarma: better
[10:56] <ogra> nearly :)
[10:56] <ivoks> shawarma: lawyers are woosies for him
[10:57] <sabdfl> he eats lawyers for breakfast
[10:57] <shawarma> cool. He eats them for snacks?
[10:57] <shawarma> Oh, well. I'll talk to him. Noproblem.
[10:57] <sabdfl> so, +1 from me on the basis of packaging
[10:58] <sabdfl> Kamion, elmo?
[10:58] <shawarma> Coolness.
[10:58] <elmo> ack
[10:58] <Kamion> yeah, I'm fine with shawarma for code written so far and for bug work; he seems to have thrown himself into code in the three months he's been using Ubuntu
[10:58] <ogra> yup
[10:58] <elmo> (++ for not using freakin cdbs :P)
[10:59] <Kamion> heh
[10:59] <ivoks> :)
[10:59] <ogra> he was remarkable in -motu
[10:59] <shawarma> elmo: :-D
[10:59] <Nafallo> :-)
[10:59] <Seveas> so, 4 points for shawarma 
[10:59] <shawarma> Wow. A perfect score.
[10:59] <Seveas> congratz, welcome aboard!
[10:59] <dholbach> congratulations shawarma :)
[10:59] <shawarma> that's a first. For me.
[10:59] <ogra> Seveas, 4 of 3 possible ? 
[10:59] <shawarma> elmo gave me two.. :-)
[10:59] <Seveas> ZakElep -- zakame 
[10:59] <Seveas> you're up
[10:59] <ogra> congrats shawarma, nice to have you aboard :)
[10:59] <shawarma> ogra: Thanks! And thank you all for the kind words!
[11:00] <\sh> back to business, after saying good bye to my friends of tortellini gorgonzola
[11:00] <Kamion> approved in LP
[11:00] <ogra> shawarma, oh, for the cdbs stuff you can get one extra from me too ;)
[11:00] <tseng> Kamion: would you mind approving me while you are there please?
[11:00] <shawarma> ogra: Rock! 5 out of 3!
[11:00] <tseng> Kamion: we can put it to a vote if youd like
[11:00] <ogra> shawarma, even if i dont count for CC ;)
[11:00] <Kamion> tseng: you don't seem to have applied, or I would
[11:01] <shawarma> ogra: Can't hear you. I'm singing a happy-song.
[11:01] <Seveas> zakame, ?
[11:01] <ogra> lol
[11:01] <Belutz> ogra, may i ask?
[11:01] <tseng> hm i need to do something? nm i wont hold anyone up
[11:01] <zakame> In a nutshell: I am primarily working on getting Ubuntu localized to Tagalog; I am also advocating the use of Ubuntu here in my locality---I have managed to install Hoary on one group of PCs for a school, with several more pending; I also support people in IRC and offline.
[11:01] <zakame> I have prior experience in making packages for Debian (gtklp and ecb), and in light of this I plan to work on MOTU (actually, immediately after completing aboutubuntu).
[11:01] <Kamion> tseng: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers, follow the "Join the team" link
[11:01] <ogra> Belutz, ? 
=== gtaylor [n=greg@130.127.142.154]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[11:01] <dholbach> zakame: nice to hear that :)
[11:02] <Belutz> ogra, what if the locoteam in my country (Indonesia) is not active?
[11:02] <\sh> zakame: you're welcome :) come along and help us :)
[11:02] <Seveas> more MOTU-ness :)
[11:02] <zakame> dholbach: thanks =)
[11:02] <ogra> Belutz, thats a smurf question...
[11:02] <sabdfl> human, huh
[11:02] <Belutz> ogra, ok :)
[11:02] <Seveas> zakame, how long have you been working on translation?
[11:03] <jdong> alright folks, I gotta run
[11:03] <jdong> might be back later...
[11:03] <sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/people/zakame/+translations
[11:03] <zakame> Seveas: actually, only two weeks... however, I still have a backlog of translated strings for several packages in launchpad that I can't seem to get applied
[11:04] <sabdfl> cheers jdong. backports-r-us has left the building...
=== ivoks whishes good night, good morning and a good day to all of you, i'm going to bed
[11:04] <zakame> Seveas: somehow I get a 502 proxy error =(
[11:04] <sabdfl> cheers ivoks
[11:04] <Seveas> zakame, hmm
[11:04] <sabdfl> zakame: consistently, on all of them?
[11:04] <Kamion> sabdfl: seems a bit short
=== jdong is now known as backports-r-us
[11:05] <sabdfl> zakame: if it always happens on the same strings, then please file a bug and assign to carlos
[11:05] <backports-r-us> just to make mark happy :)
[11:05] <backports-r-us> by
[11:05] <Kamion> oh, right, if he can't get translations committed ...
[11:05] <backports-r-us> backports-r-us has left the building :)
[11:05] <ogra> backports-r-us, lol
[11:05] <sabdfl> it's still quite small
[11:05] <zakame> Seveas, sabdfl: yes
[11:05] <Seveas> zakame, 2 weeks is a bit short, the 2 criteria are sustained and significant, two weeks does not qualify yet as significant
[11:06] <sabdfl> a good start nonetheless. zakame, i think you'll need to keep at it and come back in month or so?
[11:06] <Seveas> But keep up the good work and the CC will probably welcome you as a member in a few weeks
[11:06] <zakame> sabdfl: sure :D
[11:06] <Seveas> zakame, rock the MOTU! :)
[11:06] <zakame> Seveas: indeed! :)
[11:07] <Seveas> JonathanJesse, jjesse has the bad luck that half of the meetings are when he sleeps, and the others are while he's at work
[11:07] <Seveas> this one is during work time again
[11:07] <\sh> zakame: "few weeks" that's dapper time...come along, and beat bddebian :)
=== juliux [n=juliux@141.30.211.85]  has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Verlassend"] 
=== zakame joins #-motu now to get started
[11:08] <ogra> yay
[11:09] <sabdfl> ok
[11:09] <sabdfl> so
[11:09] <Seveas> he left 30 minutes ago
[11:09] <Seveas> we're now at the hard part
[11:09] <sabdfl> this is where we earn our keep :-)
[11:09] <Seveas> yes
[11:09] <elmo> got to go, bye
[11:09] <Seveas> I hope you read the documents?
[11:10] <sabdfl> can we take 5 minutes to read the documents from the teams?
[11:10] <elmo> ;-P
[11:10] <Seveas> elmo, cya!
[11:10] <sabdfl> ;-p
[11:10] <Seveas> :p
[11:10] <Kamion> sabdfl: it takes a lot more than five minutes :(
[11:10] <Seveas> sabdfl, I'm afraid it will take more time
[11:10] <Yann2> what with the report of the locoteam meeting?
[11:10] <sabdfl> ok, i haven't read them yet
[11:10] <Seveas> ehm, oops
[11:10] <Kamion> I spent a while reading over stuff earlier, and was left with a considerable impression of "big fight, one party's word against the other"
[11:10] <Seveas> we're skipping an item
[11:10] <Seveas> locoteammeeting is up first
[11:10] <rejden> can i introduce candidate loco team?
[11:10] <rejden> i wrote few lines already...
[11:11] <Seveas> rejden, not right now, please come to the next meeting
[11:11] <Yann2> we have some uncovered items from the last locoteammeeting
[11:11] <Yann2> mostly about logistics around cd and conf packs shipping
[11:11] <Yann2> and trademarks issues
[11:11] <ogra> but no mako around...
[11:11] <Seveas> Yann2, hmm, makos presence would be useful...
[11:11] <Yann2> didn't achieve anything during the last two meetings as nobody from canonical was there
[11:12] <Seveas> sabdfl, can you perhaps say anything about that, I'm also highly interested in locoteams-oredering-bulk-cds-and-get-them-quick
[11:12] <smurf> silbs said she'd be at the next locomeeting
[11:12] <rejden> Seveas, as you wish
[11:12] <sabdfl> yes
[11:13] <Seveas> lots of people here in NL are willing to come to a central point/pay for shipping to get them faster
[11:13] <sabdfl> you should place a large-ish order in shipit
[11:13] <sabdfl> and in the note, say it is for a loco team, and ask for it to be sent with a high priority
[11:13] <Yann2> sabdfl > it would be about 20000 cds maybe.. 
[11:13] <sabdfl> if it's a reasonable request and the loco team is active, that should be approved
[11:13] <Yann2> okay, i'll do this.
[11:13] <sabdfl> Yann2: that's very large, unlikely to be able to fulfill it without a very strong rationale
[11:13] <sabdfl> that's USD 20k worth, or more
[11:14] <Yann2> sabdfl > i don't think we'd make it for breezy anyway.
=== FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[11:14] <sabdfl> Yann2: why so many?
[11:14] <Yann2> maybe for breezy+1.
[11:14] <Yann2> sabdfl > Trying to do distribution for LUGs and some small companies.
[11:14] <Seveas> sabdfl, and the alleged conference packs, are these getting shape?
[11:15] <Yann2> handle a large part of shipping in france, in fact ;)
[11:15] <Yann2> maybe it will only be 10000... but it's going to be a huge number anyway
[11:16] <Yann2> I wrote a mail @shipit, to discuss that...  :)
[11:16] <vuntz> Yann2: just wondering... do you have enough place to stock all this? :-)
[11:16] <Kamion> (like, a warehouse ...)
[11:16] <Yann2> vuntz > vuntz, I think yes. we're in discussion with a cybercentre
[11:16] <Yann2> and another company doing logistics
[11:17] <Yann2> we might even get a small budget
[11:17] <Yann2> and the company asking us for some logistics would even pay for logistics issues
[11:17] <Yann2> so it might be possible, but i'm waiting for the "yes" of canonical before starting anything
[11:18] <Yann2> everything should be prepared for breezy+1, we won't make it for breezy 
[11:18] <Seveas> did sabdfls connection die again?
[11:18] <sabdfl> Yann2: ok, if there is a good plan, and it involves rapid redistribution to local groups, then it's feasible
[11:18] <Seveas> ah, :)
[11:19] <sabdfl> sorry, i'm reading through the forums plot twists and turns
[11:19] <Yann2> sabdfl > ok, thanks. I'll mail you in a few months when everything's ready.
=== FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[11:19] <Yann2> sabdfl > the second point was about trademarks
[11:20] <Seveas> sabdfl, I want to complicate that in a few minutes by adding the view of another, impartial, moderator
[11:20] <Yann2> there already was a discussion on the locoteam mailing list
[11:20] <Yann2> it's all about allowing locoteams to have an official status in their own country
[11:20] <Yann2> which could give them more power and credibility, and own budget.
=== FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[11:21] <smurf> not to mention tax reasons
[11:21] <sabdfl> Yann2: what sort of official status?
[11:21] <Yann2> not for profit organisation
[11:21] <smurf> sabdfl: basically, found a local notfor-profit named "ubuntu-something"
[11:22] <elmo> you guys realize how much work is involved in becoming a legal not-for-profit right?
[11:22] <sabdfl> yes, that should be fine, and we can give permission for all necessary trademark usage etc
[11:22] <Seveas> Yann2, on a sidenote: I for one am so glad you are persisting, even though the process is cumbersome. This hurdle will have to be taken someday and the dooner the better.
[11:22] <vuntz> elmo: it's not that hard in France :-)
[11:22] <Yann2> sabdfl > if that's fine, what's the way we should follow to achieve this?
[11:22] <smurf> elmo: depending on the country -- not much in some
[11:23] <Kamion> we'd be less comfortable (to say the least) about giving permission for companies to use the Ubuntu name
[11:23] <\sh> elmo: yes
[11:23] <Kamion> and people do need to ask for permission on a case-by-case basis, because we need to defend the trademark or we lose it
[11:23] <Kamion> (at least I think that's true, sabdfl's call obviously)
[11:23] <sabdfl> Kamion: +1
[11:23] <vuntz> is the trademark valid in all countries? or only in some?
[11:23] <Yann2> Kamion > of course. I also think Canonical should have the right to remove the trademark agreement at any time.
[11:23] <Yann2> the same way it handles dns, in fact.
[11:24] <thesaltydog> sabdfl, I am leaving. Thanks everybody!! Good night.
[11:24] <sabdfl> night, thesaltydog
[11:24] <\sh> cu thesaltydog 
=== thesaltydog is not so young as ogra is...!
[11:24] <ogra> night thesaltydog 
[11:24] <ogra> haha
[11:24] <ogra> thesaltydog, i'm getting there
[11:24] <sabdfl> vuntz: most of europe, us, japan
[11:24] <vuntz> okay
[11:24] <smurf> we plan to discuss this more in the locoteam meeting next monday
[11:25] <sabdfl> japan was funny, originally they came back to say we could not have the trademark because "ubuntu is well known as a form of free software"
[11:25] <Kamion> http://www.inta.org/info/basics_treaties.html > discussion of treaties governing trademarks
[11:25] <Yann2> smurf > I hope there'll be some people of canonical this time ;)
[11:25] <dholbach> sabdfl: haha, brilliant
[11:26] <sabdfl> Yann2: so, in short, we want loco teams to be as strong and vibrant and independent as possible
[11:26] <sabdfl> and can give independent groups permission to use the name
[11:26] <\sh> smurf: short notice on the date, so i can catch stkn for the trademark issue between the german society and gentoo...
[11:26] <Yann2> sabdfl > so do we
[11:26] <Yann2> sabdfl > great, how do we get one? :p
[11:26] <Kamion> dholbach: c.f. Linux though, I'm told one does have to be quite careful to avoid the mark becoming generic
[11:26] <sabdfl> to explore further, we'll need to work out the details with silbs, who coordinates trademark usage and policy
[11:26] <Yann2> we'll discuss that further next monday :)
[11:27] <sabdfl> ok, next monday
[11:27] <Kamion> dholbach: and Japan were essentially saying "it's generic already" (although I think without fully understanding who was doing the asking)
[11:27] <Seveas> so, on to the forums issue?
[11:27] <sabdfl> yes
[11:27] <ogra> Kamion, i have a washing powder box here thats calle linux :)
[11:27] <Yann2> yep :) 
[11:27] <ogra> *calle
=== \sh likes tomboy ;)
[11:27] <ogra> d
[11:27] <Seveas> ok, let me add the 3rd view, of another impartial forum moderator
[11:28] <sabdfl> the japan example shows why we have to be a little bit careful
[11:28] <sabdfl> go ahead Seveas
=== dholbach chuckles at Kamion :)
[11:28] <ubuntugeek> lets get this resolved..
[11:28] <jdodson> Seveas: impartiallity is not possible, though i am curious to hear who you offer:)
[11:29] <sabdfl> jdodson: still, another viewpoint will help us all get better perspective
[11:29] <Kamion> the two viewpoints I've seen so far are pretty much directly opposed
[11:29] <jdodson> sabdfl: oh, i thought he meant something else, no worries.  sorry:)
[11:30] <arzajac> First off, thank you for hearing our complaint.
[11:30] <jdodson> arzajac: agreed.
[11:30] <arzajac> None of the "one party's word against another" is really all that relevant. We can discuss them if you want but that is not our point.
[11:30] <arzajac> Hopefully this can be done in two minutes.  We would like the CC to oversee the administration of the forums.   We do not think the three administrators who are in charge properly represent the spirit of Ubuntu.  That's it.
[11:30] <arzajac> If someone from the CC (or a forum users' comittee) can be involved (and have a say) in how things are run (see the bottom of our complaint), we will be happy.  
[11:31] <jdodson> arzajac: agreed.
[11:31] <jdodson> so its all settled then:)
[11:32] <Seveas> it basically boils down to: all people from both parties have the best intent for the users, however among the moderators there have been 'issues' in their private forum section. Ryan, John and Kassetra have more powers at the forum and tend to use this a bit too much at times. THey like to quickly go to private talks to solve conflicts. The others prefer open-ness much more and have problems with
[11:32] <Seveas>  this closed-ness. There have been some strange actions, like moderator forum posts suddenly all being gone and people threatening to go unofficial (which even out of its contect is a serious threat). I am impartial about this and apart from the ever worsening forum <-> mailing list gateway the forums work fine the way they are. I just really frown upon people being kicked out because of disputes 
[11:32] <Seveas> among moderators and see this as an abuse of power.
[11:32] <Seveas> (The last lines "I am ... of power" are my own opinion, the rest is derived from a long talk with a moderator who wishes to stay anonymous)
[11:32] <jdodson> I left because I was tired of fighting against people who did not appreciate community, or at least i interpreted thier actions as such.
[11:32] <dataw0lf> I think that words it quite well.
[11:33] <jdodson> Seveas: i agree with you.
[11:33] <dataw0lf> I think that there's been a rush to view this as some sort of up-in-arms conflict or mutiny.
[11:33] <Kamion> my main concern about arzajac's request is that none of the CC members (as far as I know) have any experience with running forums, and it's entirely possible that one of us jumping in with both feet would just make the situation worse
[11:33] <Kamion> nor are any of us saints :-)
[11:33] <jdodson> Kamion: I doubt you coudl do much worse.
[11:33] <elmo> jdodson: well are things actually so bad?
[11:34] <sabdfl> if anything, the forums are a bigger job than the mailing lists
[11:34] <arzajac> Then how about a comittee of forum users who get to say what is right and what is wrong?
[11:34] <jdodson> elmo: its why i quit.
[11:34] <sabdfl> because they tend to create linkerlinked communities, whereas lists are very much thread and topic based
[11:34] <elmo> jdodson: okay, but there are obvious personality conflicts involved for you.  is it so bad _for the users_?
[11:34] <Seveas> Kamion, the problem with most forums is that they are so easilyt accessible that they attract lots of abuse (not meaning this dispute here). This tends to overheaat moderators at times and break things.
[11:34] <dataw0lf> elmo: I would say that it's been taken out of hand a bit.  
[11:34] <jdodson> elmo: i was tired of getting talked to in all caps.  and constaintly reminded to step down if i didnt like the works.
[11:34] <jdodson> elmo: for the users, no.
[11:34] <sabdfl> i think we are partially just seeing normal growing pains - the forums have grown far faster than i ever imagined possible
[11:34] <Seveas> I see this on IRC too, where I as very active op am personally attacked almost every day
[11:35] <Kamion> I'm OK with the CC being a kind of court of last resort (it makes sense with our role elsewhere), but we generally find it very difficult to adjudicate forums stuff because it seems to be practically a full-time job to maintain the sort of knowledge that's necessary to know what to do with personality conflicts
[11:35] <jdodson> elmo: well at times things got heated, i could name times, sometimes they are quick to close the door on users or close threads, etc.
[11:35] <smurf> arzajac: I don't think this is a conflict about "right" vs "wrong"
[11:35] <Kamion> #ubuntu's kind of the same, although at least we have greppable logs there so things are marginally easier
[11:35] <sabdfl> and the perception of the forums being somewhat separate ("it took a long time for the forums to become official") is, quite frankly, true
[11:35] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: agree! almost 43,000 registered users. I think this has been taken out of context..
[11:35] <dataw0lf> elmo: It _has_ had an effect on the overall user experience, yes, I believe so.
[11:35] <Kamion> (but the volume's still enormous)
[11:35] <arzajac> elmo,  the problem happens when a user gets edited or deleted and want to complain.  There is no objective body to say who is right.
[11:35] <\sh> Seveas: which is quite normal in a growing channel/community...happens before ubuntu and will happen after ubuntu 
[11:35] <Seveas> \sh, absolutely
=== tristanmike [n=tristan@blk-224-251-101.eastlink.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[11:36] <Seveas> I respect the work of ubuntugeek, azz, jdodson, jdong and all other forum admins, it's gotta be a hell of a job
[11:36] <sabdfl> ok, can i make a few observations based on the texts provided?
[11:36] <sabdfl> i also have some questions
[11:36] <jdodson> fire away sabdfl.
[11:36] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: please doo
[11:36] <sabdfl> but it may be worth clearing up some misunderstandings from the perspective of canonical
[11:36] <Yann2> if it's about if the forum should be run by the cc or by third parties, let's vote ;)
[11:36] <sabdfl> this is in no particular order
[11:37] <Kamion> Yann2: let's not get ahead of ourselves here
[11:37] <sabdfl> first, i think its important that we recognise the very, very central role of the forums
[11:37] <sabdfl> even though most of the devs themselves prefer lists, the forums are enormously important to the users
[11:37] <sabdfl> and the users are important to the devs
[11:38] <jdodson> sabdfl: agreed.
[11:38] <sabdfl> so... we need to take some concrete steps to bring the forums "into the fold"
[11:38] <sabdfl> i can't ask the devs to change their online work habits
[11:38] <sabdfl> they tend to prefer irc and email because of mutt and xchat
[11:38] <sabdfl> and we don't have web-based equivalents :-)
[11:38] <jdodson> lynx?
[11:38] <jdodson> :)
[11:38] <Nafallo> hehe :-)
[11:38] <sabdfl> but from a governance structure point of view, the forums should absolutely "fit" into the big picture
[11:38] <sabdfl> not be a secondary or separate effort
[11:39] <sabdfl> that said
[11:39] <sabdfl> none of this would have happened without ubuntugeek
[11:39] <Seveas> sabdfl, a good first step in this respect would be is forum admins would become members and are present at CC meetings
[11:39] <ubuntugeek> :)
[11:39] <sturmkind> that's right
[11:39] <sabdfl> it's amazing to me the energy and commitment ryan has brought to the project
[11:39] <sabdfl> so full credit and due
[11:39] <Seveas> sabdfl, I respectfully disagree, Ubuntu forums would have happened anyway ;)
[11:39] <Seveas> but ubuntugeeks work is awesome
[11:40] <sabdfl> and one of the reasons ive been cautious in storming into the forums is because i don't want to take anything away from ryan's ownership of that traffic and community
[11:40] <arzajac> but should he decide what is to be edited?
[11:40] <sabdfl> i say "ryan's ownership" because, while nobody owns a community, ryan has really shaped and invested time and money into it
[11:40] <arzajac> I agree that he works really hard at keeping the forums up
[11:40] <sabdfl> arzajac: i'll get to the editing bit :-)
[11:40] <dataw0lf> I thought Ryan did own the forums?
[11:40] <jdodson> he does.
[11:40] <dataw0lf> I mean, he does pay for the server, correct?
[11:40] <Seveas> yes
[11:40] <dataw0lf> So.  He owns it.
[11:40] <sabdfl> dataw0lf: i'll get to that too
[11:40] <dataw0lf> sabdfl: Roger.
[11:41] <sabdfl> so
[11:41] <sabdfl> if the forums are 100% part of ubuntu, then the governance structure should embrace the forums
[11:41] <sabdfl> that means (a) code of conduct, and (b) community council
[11:41] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: agreed..
[11:41] <sabdfl> so i'm really glad to see that this discussion has landed here tonight / today / this morning
[11:42] <sabdfl> and i'm really glad that the editing / privacy debate was couched in terms of code of conduct
[11:42] <sabdfl> i agree that the current code of conduct is not sufficiently detailed in the field of forums
[11:43] <sabdfl> and i would like to see some follow through on the idea of a detailed "forums code of conduct" as a statement that is like a contextualisation of the CoC for forums
[11:43] <sabdfl> that could deal with:
[11:43] <sabdfl>  - forums-sepcific etiquette
[11:43] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: true on that fact.. I suggest we take the guidelines on the forums and incorporate them into the COC..
[11:43] <sabdfl>  - dispute resolution procedures
[11:43] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: we may well need to rev the CoC
[11:43] <nybble> heh, because of the forums I started using ubuntu *shuts up now*
[11:43] <sabdfl> but i do prefer to keep the CoC medium-neutral
[11:44] <sabdfl> and have secondary documents that lay down guidelines for different mediums
[11:44] <sabdfl> because they really are different
[11:44] <dataw0lf> understandable
[11:44] <Kamion> the hard question for me seems to be: what happens if (when) there's somebody on the forums who is consistently violating the code? who enforces it? this meeting was called partially because of a disagreement over who's in charge, effectively, which seems to cut towards that
[11:44] <sabdfl> so, i think the forums are too big for their to be just one person
[11:44] <dataw0lf> Kamion: Yes.  Despite Ryan 'owning' the forums, if the forums are a part of Ubuntu Linux, I think that needs to be resolved.
[11:45] <Seveas> maybe the CC members can get access to the moderator-only part of the forums?
[11:45] <Kamion> and I definitely don't think every small dispute should be brought to the CC
[11:45] <sabdfl> i would suggest that you create a "ubuntu forum council"
[11:45] <Kamion> I would much rather we were a court of appeal
[11:45] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: 100% agreed..
[11:45] <jdodson> I think if the CC had access to the old mod area, people who be surprised.
[11:45] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek should have a casting vote on there, much as i have one on the CC
[11:45] <sabdfl> but that council would be ultimately accountable to this one
[11:46] <Kamion> court of appeal> because, as I said, we don't have the direct hands-on experience, and to be perfectly honest many of us don't have the time
[11:46] <sabdfl> so there would be an appeal process
[11:46] <arzajac> jdodson:  you mean the archives.
[11:46] <Kamion> (to be involved in everything)
[11:46] <jdodson> yeah, sorry.
[11:46] <sabdfl> now, on the editing thing
[11:46] <sabdfl> i would strongly urge you to make everything permanent
[11:46] <sabdfl> keep things on the record
[11:46] <sabdfl> we don't have a members-only private list
[11:46] <jdodson> sabdfl: amen.
[11:47] <arzajac> As for the editing, well that would be a matter for the forums council.
[11:47] <Seveas> sabdfl, a moderator-only forum is very common though on forums
[11:47] <sabdfl> and it's never happened that the CC has discussed something as a group but off the record
[11:47] <nybble> as op'ing a few communities in the past, the best bet _is_ to keep everything public
[11:47] <arzajac> Let the users decide what is "right" and what ir "wrong"
[11:47] <sabdfl> of course, we do have private person-to-person conversations
[11:47] <ubuntugeek> seveas: yes agreed this is needed.. we need to keep in mind this is a different beast then the mailing lists etc..
[11:47] <dataw0lf> I think that a moderator only forum probably is needed.
[11:47] <sabdfl> the only reason to remove something is the nuclear launch codes
[11:48] <Kamion> I found the comment about old archives of moderator discussions being deleted a bit disturbing; can the admins address that?
[11:48] <Seveas> ubuntugeek, but the contents and archives of this should be available to the CC
[11:48] <dataw0lf> but the CC needs access to it at all times, as does the forum council.
[11:48] <sabdfl> dataw0lf: i would still make it public read-only
[11:48] <Kamion> (I don't think I saw it in the admins' response, but if I missed it, my apologies)
[11:48] <jdodson> sabdfl: good idea.
[11:48] <Seveas> Kamion, yes, they have been deleted or at least been made inaccessible, and it's imho indeed distrurbing
[11:48] <sabdfl> if the guys need to discuss something privately, they have email and irc
[11:48] <sabdfl> treat the forums as a place of record, keep it public
[11:48] <arzajac> +1
[11:48] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I dont think the mud in the archives needs to be made public. It will only hurt more peoples feelings.
[11:48] <sabdfl> and don't delete something just because you disagree with it
[11:49] <sabdfl> that undermines the community trust
[11:49] <jdodson> Seveas: there were many things in the old moderator area that look very bad to the adminstrators. 
[11:49] <arzajac> "Hurt people's feelings"  Not true.
[11:49] <dataw0lf> sabdfl: Definitely agreed, which is one of the major problems with the current situation.
[11:49] <smurf> ubuntugeek: the fact that there's mud in the archives is in itself part of the problem
[11:49] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: i understand that a pointed jab hurts, but it also fades quickly into the distance
[11:49] <Seveas> ubuntugeek, at least make it accessible to the CC to support either of the parties' arguments
[11:49] <Kamion> ubuntugeek: the problem is that when a dispute is brought to a body such as this, it is very difficult to deal with relevant history being deleted
[11:49] <sabdfl> there are a couple of very old emails of mine that google digs up that make me blush too
[11:49] <sabdfl> like... "how do you make a certificate?"?
[11:49] <Seveas> roflol :D
[11:50] <dataw0lf> hehe
[11:50] <Kamion> I don't have an opinion on full publicness or not, but they do need to be available as "evidence"
[11:50] <arzajac> We would like to see them too...
[11:50] <jdodson> :)
[11:50] <nybble> lol
[11:50] <Seveas> sabdfl, man openssl ;)
[11:50] <arzajac> How would the forum council be implemented?
[11:50] <\sh> sabdfl: 1994? ,-)
[11:51] <sabdfl> if the forums are treated as public record (if necessary, there could be a moderators-only-posting forum that we can all read) then everyone knows that posting is serious and will lurk
=== umarmung [n=wichtel@p54AA2A0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de]  has left #ubuntu-meeting ["verlass...t] 
[11:51] <jdodson> sabdfl: agreed.
[11:51] <sabdfl> arzajac: if ubuntugeek is happy then the cc could ask 3-5 guys to make up that council
[11:51] <arzajac> Which guys?
[11:51] <arzajac> or girls?
[11:51] <Kamion> I have a horrible feeling about that ;)
[11:51] <Seveas> ubuntugeek, just to be completely clear: are the old archives gone now or just offline?
[11:51] <sabdfl> arzajac: not sure yet. 
[11:52] <arzajac> post count?
[11:52] <jdodson> Kamion: about what?
[11:52] <sabdfl> we do need more girls in charge around here
[11:52] <arzajac> +10
[11:52] <ubuntugeek> sevas: offline archived
[11:52] <dataw0lf> yum
[11:52] <Kamion> in my experience of online communities, post count's a very dodgy way to pick people to run things
[11:52] <dataw0lf> ubuntugeek: could you pull them all up for public viewing?
[11:52] <nybble> sabdfl: agreed
[11:52] <dataw0lf> Kamion: definitely agreed.
[11:52] <Seveas> ubuntugeek, please don't throw them out yet, the CC might want to view them
[11:52] <Kamion> jdodson: about the CC picking people to run a community we have no direct experience of
[11:52] <ubuntugeek> they are "offline" in the old forum..
[11:52] <arzajac> How about interested members apply to the CC?
[11:53] <sabdfl> what would be a good way to get new members onto a forums council?
[11:53] <jdodson> ubuntugeek: right, can you make them online?
[11:53] <ubuntugeek> I would like to request that the members forming this complaint not be on this dispute team.
[11:53] <Nafallo> sabdfl: I'll tell gothcat (my girlfriend) that ;-)
[11:53] <sabdfl> with the CC, it';s a vote of all members to confirm my nomination
[11:53] <sabdfl> with the TB, it's a vote of all devs
[11:53] <jdodson> ubuntugeek: right, you fired two of us for a reason right?  
[11:53] <nybble> Nafallo: :D
[11:53] <dataw0lf> ubuntugeek: Well, I told you I'm completely done with the forums.
[11:53] <dataw0lf> ubuntugeek: But I think in the others case you hold personal grudges against them, when they were some of your best team members.
[11:53] <dataw0lf> *shrug*
[11:54] <arzajac> i think it is more than just a disputes team...
[11:54] <dataw0lf> and I think that would be evident with all of the archived moderator-only posts.
[11:54] <sabdfl> who would be the appropriate group to vote on new forum council members?
[11:54] <Simza> sabdfl : in charge of what? I'm drowning in responsibility here...
[11:54] <Seveas> ubuntugeek, why not, from what I've seen, these persons are great contributors to the forums
[11:54] <sabdfl> Simza: get kiddie wings
[11:54] <arzajac> seveas:  thank you.
[11:55] <macgyver2> sabdfl: why not the forum users?
[11:55] <dataw0lf> Seveas: azz, panickedthumb, and jdodson were all great contributors. 
[11:55] <Seveas> If the revamped mods-only part is made public-readable I think most objections will be gone
[11:55] <sabdfl> macgyver2: would that be manageable?
[11:55] <macgyver2> (coming from a forum user)
[11:55] <arzajac> i still am
[11:55] <Kamion> I'd like to see a fairly quick cycle of membership in a forum council, just because the community is huge and seems to be pretty fast-moving in itself
[11:55] <Seveas> dataw0lf, so are ubuntugeek, jdong and kassetra
[11:55] <dataw0lf> Seveas: ubuntugeek and jdong, yes.
[11:55] <Kamion> that way, too, if there is a problem it doesn't last too long
[11:55] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: one really difficult thing with managing a project like this is that you have strong-minded cats
[11:55] <dataw0lf> Seveas: But, they weren't fired, so that seems irrelevant.
[11:55] <sabdfl> there will always be disagreements
[11:56] <\sh> sabdfl: search around the group of well known ppl who are quite busy on the forums...
[11:56] <ubuntugeek> seveas: I have no problem forming a dispute team that comprises of people other then these 4. I do agree this committe should be present at the CC meetings to discuss issues.
[11:56] <smurf> ubuntugeek: I do think you need some balance in that group -- problems like this can't get solved by a council that's all of the same opinion on problems that have multiple legitimate solutions
[11:56] <sabdfl> letting some of them live on as (humorous) disagreements is sometimes the only way to build out your team
[11:56] <jdodson> sabdfl: ubuntugeek wanted to prune the ones that disagreed openly.  
[11:56] <sabdfl> as smurf said, that diversity is your friend
[11:56] <ubuntugeek> I would also like to point out that I have requested someone from canonical be on the forums at least 3 times in the past.
[11:56] <Kamion> ubuntugeek: I think the main problem is that we're all flat-out with work :(
[11:56] <sabdfl> disagreeing openly is something us (b)dfl's don't handle easily
[11:57] <Simza> aren't there several Canonical people there?
[11:57] <Seveas> ubuntugeek, as has been said today, they have no experience with that
[11:57] <Kamion> I drop in once in a blue moon, but nowhere near enough ...
[11:57] <sabdfl> Simza: there are, but contrary to rumour and myth we're only human
[11:57] <arzajac> You do?
[11:57] <Kamion> and I can hardly keep up with ubuntu-{users,devel} as it is
[11:57] <ubuntugeek> Ok so on to resolution, we need to end this..
[11:57] <sabdfl> i follow links in. and out.
[11:57] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: theres some more
[11:58] <sabdfl> there's a suggestion that canonical and the foundation don't support the forums
[11:58] <sabdfl> in fact, canonical offered to match donations and ended up contributing to the server fund
[11:58] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: i would disagree based on your contribution a few months back
[11:58] <dataw0lf> Ack, Tru64 servers going down, I must bow out of the conversation now :)  Everyone take care, and I hope for the best for the forums, as always.
[11:58] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: ?
=== dataw0lf [n=dataw0lf@66.219.227.114]  has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] 
[11:58] <Kamion> sabdfl: he's disagreeing with "don't support the forums"
[11:58] <Kamion> IRC lag strikes again :)
[11:58] <sabdfl> and i'm more than willing to offer to host  the forum storage and bandwidth
[11:59] <sabdfl> (22:58:31) sabdfl: in fact, canonical offered to match donations and ended up contributing to the server fund
[11:59] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: canonical has supported the forums based on the $900 donation a few months back. This is noted on our about page on the forums.
=== Schpenke [n=Schpenke@c-67-162-255-225.hsd1.tx.comcast.net]  has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 
[11:59] <elmo> ubuntugeek: we also offered to match any future donations in a similar way
[11:59] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I am not sure were that rumor is coming from..
[11:59] <sabdfl> ok, i just read comments in the thread about the foundation announcement, that suggested that moderators / admins believed that canonical made no support and funds available to the forums
[12:00] <sabdfl> the only reason we did not offer to host them previously is because i did not want to undermine ryan
[12:00] <sabdfl> on the same lines, integrated login across wiki and forums is doable
[12:00] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I was not part of that conversation although I have read it. I would like to note public, canonical has donated to us and helped us.
[12:00] <sabdfl> quite easily
[12:01] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: I have been trying to get ahold of spiv on that he doesnt reply.
[12:01] <sabdfl> and has been spec'd and can be implemented quickly
[12:01] <sabdfl> ubuntugeek: does PHP do XML-RPC?
[12:01] <arzajac> Can other forums interface in the same way? (kubuntuforums.net?)
[12:01] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: the forums has a plugin system which we might be able to integrate with..
[12:01] <\sh> sabdfl: it has a xmlrpc library
[12:01] <ubuntugeek> arzajac: please stay on topic
[12:01] <\sh> sabdfl: and sometimes a pain that is...vulnerable
[12:02] <sabdfl> arzajac: yes
=== jdodson watches ubuntgeek crack the whip.
[12:02] <sabdfl> there is a very simple xmlrpc api to integrate with launchpad
[12:02] <sabdfl> moin has it
[12:02] <sabdfl> we have a python implementation
[12:02] <Kamion> ubuntugeek: was a legitimate enough question in the context I think
[12:02] <sabdfl> just need to do it in php
=== Seveas volunteers if needed
[12:02] <ubuntugeek> sabdfl: any php programmers out there pelase let me know
[12:02] <\sh> sabdfl: AuthServer?
[12:02] <sabdfl> all *ubuntu*.* should use it, imo
[12:02] <jdodson> ubuntgeek: me.
[12:02] <sabdfl> \sh: yes