[12:28] <sivang> night everyone
[12:30] <bddebian> Gnight sivang 
[12:42] <tseng> Kamion: thanks alot.
[12:43] <dholbach> good night everybody
[12:46] <mjg59> sabdfl: Hello?
[12:52] <sabdfl> mjg59: just nominated you for the tech board, i hope you're still available?
[12:56] <sabdfl> mjg59: errr... stunned silence?
[12:57] <Keybuk> no fair
[12:57] <\sh> g'night folks
[12:58] <Keybuk> tradition has it that he doesn't find out until after he's been nominated and voted in
[12:58] <sabdfl> ok. shhhh...
[01:01] <bddebian> hehe
[01:03] <mjg59> sabdfl: Sorry, busy drinking
[01:03] <mjg59> sabdfl: Thanks! Was that what you wanted to ask me this morning?
[01:03] <sabdfl> mjg59: yesh
[01:03] <sabdfl> eggshellent
[01:04] <sabdfl> we have all the infrastructure to run a vote now. could you draft up a (short - 200 words) statement of the things you find interesting about linux and free software for me?
[01:05] <sabdfl> i'll incorporate that into your nomination, and send it to the wires
[01:05] <mjg59> Sure - what sort of timeframe?
[01:05] <sabdfl> we'll get the vote setup in LP, and run it from TB to TB, so you have a chance to come along and answer any questions from the hostile masses
[01:05] <sabdfl> soonest would be next week, or two weeks later, to get started
[01:06] <tseng> did we decide who votes now sabdfl ?
[01:06] <sabdfl> tseng: yes, all devs, not just the -core
[01:06] <tseng> hm, cool.
[01:06] <sabdfl> or hot, depending :-)
[01:06] <tseng> im a big proponent of community governence :P
[01:06] <tseng> not that the sabdfl and the current boards havent been doing an awesome job
[01:06] <sabdfl> but not punctuation or speling
[01:07] <sabdfl> it seems :-p
[01:07] <tseng> indeed.
[01:07] <sabdfl> heh. night all
[01:07] <Nafallo> gnight sabdfl :-)
[01:07] <tseng> sleep well
[01:09] <Nafallo> if I would buy a printer/multi-pass today, I should buy HP for stunning support in my favorite linux-distribution, right? :-)
[02:01] <segfault> after that apt PO fixes, how do i translate it? it's not listed in rosetta
[02:07] <bddebian> Kamion: Are you working through Malone?
[02:08] <zyga> segfault: pull the source, rosetta is broken 
[02:09] <segfault> and then just send it to mvo?
[02:10] <zyga> segfault: or upload to rosetta, or both
[02:10] <zyga> segfault: note that you can find the package or manually forge the url for the package and then upload the translation
[02:11] <segfault> i tried that, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/apt/+pots/apt/pt_BR/+translate
[02:13] <zyga> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/apt/+translations
[02:13] <zyga> nag people in #launchpad about it
[02:13] <zyga> it should work
[02:20] <lllmanulll> Hey guys, just wanted to say that a reporter from cnet.com asked me a few questions about developping for Ubuntu in an email : I just sent my answer, in which I'm writing a lot of very nice things :)
[02:20] <segfault> zyga: doing that :)
[02:21] <lllmanulll> It has been (and still is) really a pleasure to work for Ubuntu :)
[02:44] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[02:52] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[02:53] <bddebian> Were one of you two checking out the wv thing for beagle or was that dropped?
[03:00] <jdub> mjg59: should ircomm stuff work if irattach is running?
[03:01] <jdub> mjg59: and have you see ircomm stuff crash the machine?
[03:01] <jdub> also, ircomm{,-tty} is not autoloaded
[03:01] <jdub> and congratulations for TB nomination
[03:02] <bddebian> Oh yeah, congrats mjg59 
[03:03] <mjg59> jdub: I haven't seen ircomm crash, no
[03:03] <mjg59> You need to modprobe ircomm-tty (or something like that)
[03:03] <mjg59> Then ircomm0 should "just work"
[03:03] <jdub> yeah, have done
[03:04] <bob2> nsc-ircc is the x40 ir module, right?
[03:07] <mjg59> bob2: Yeah
[03:07] <mjg59> Depending on BIOS version, you need to do PnP setup first though
[03:08] <jdub> with the bios update, i can now do fn-f7 for crt/lcd
[03:08] <jdub> however, the crt output looks horrendous when displaying on both
[03:08] <jdub> as if it were interlaced, and each line were moving left and right at different times
[03:09] <jdub> pipka got her T42 today
[03:10] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah. It's likely that in that mode it's running them off the same pipe, which isn't really spec compliant
[03:10] <HrdwrBoB> mm nice, T42
[03:10] <mjg59> It's *probably* an X bug of some description, but I'm not sure
[03:10] <jdub> oh, hmm, XP SP2 comes with bluetooth support?!
[03:10] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:11] <bddebian> Is elmo the only one that can drop packages from the archive?
[03:11] <jdub> plugging in a bluetooth usb thingy and having it work out of the box was... unexpected :-)
[03:12] <tseng> jdub: what kind?
[03:12] <jdub> belkin
[03:12] <tseng> rock on
[03:14] <elmo> bddebian: dude, it's a removal - chill out, it's not going to do any harm if it waits a couple of days
[03:15] <bddebian> elmo: I was asking because I have a question about another one, not if you had already done them
[03:18] <jdub> how much do we trust ext2resize?
[03:19] <ogra> do we ?
[03:19] <jdub> or parted's resizing foo?
[03:20] <ogra> gparted should wor fine
[03:21] <ogra> (dont try it with cf cards though)
[03:21] <Nafallo> ogra: oh? why not?
[03:21] <ogra> it broke mine when we tested it at UDU
[03:22] <ogra> i had to repartition...
[03:23] <Nafallo> hmm, can't reproduce then :-P
[03:23] <Nafallo> or wait. it did some time indeed.
[03:23] <ogra> fine, so it was fixed inetween
[03:23] <Nafallo> but works last time I tried :-)
[03:25] <Nafallo> I could always test it... ;-)
[03:26] <Lathiat> Rotund: sup
[03:27] <jdub> e2fsck -fy /dev/hda3 -> ahem.
[03:29] <Nafallo> ogra: seems working.
[03:29] <ogra> great
[03:29] <ogra> nice to see it evolved
[03:31] <Nafallo> hmm, I could actually resize things with that program now.
[03:31] <Nafallo> nice indeed :-)
[03:54] <jmg> hey all
[03:54] <jmg> im having an issue with lilo and devmapper in breezy please advise
[03:54] <jmg> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/2600
[03:59] <jmg> guys i have my root in lvm trying to reinstall lilo
[03:59] <jmg> i get an error  http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/2600
[04:18] <jmg> guys what can i do about this [pid 23930]  ioctl(4, DM_TABLE_STATUS, 0x807d378) = -1 ENXIO (No such device or address)
[04:18] <bob2> dude, seriously
[04:18] <jmg> i think it is a bug in breezy udev
[04:21] <magnon> jmg: This isn't a support channel, use #ubuntu for support requests or file a bug in Bugzilla to track it properly please
[04:36] <bob2> I swear my laptop disk is getting slower
[04:38] <carstenh> 19:02:52 < jdub> BenC, mdz: so is this "my hard drive is slower" stuff 
[04:38] <carstenh>           supported by any useful evidence yet?
[04:38] <carstenh> bob2: you are not allone with that
[04:39] <lifeless> bob2: heh. I bonnied the hell outta breezy
[04:39] <lifeless> bob2: it got faster than hoary
[04:41] <bob2> hmm
[04:52] <bob2> bddebian: please set a realname in launchpad
[04:52] <bob2> getting mail from "bddebian" is annoying
[04:53] <bddebian> bob2: Is that under Display Name?
[04:53] <bob2> I dunno
[04:53] <bob2> think so :)
[04:54] <bddebian> Done
[04:54] <bddebian> Sheesh, the things I get chastised about :-)
[04:57] <bddebian> bob2: Let me know if that last one comes in as Barry deFreese! 
[04:59] <bddebian> #1557 looks easy if someones interested.  I'm not. :-)
[05:02] <ajmitch> bddebian: ?
[05:02] <bddebian> Whoops, wrong window :-)
[05:02] <bddebian> ajmitch: It's audacity and you did the last change. ;-)
[05:24] <lamont-away> GO GSTPLUGINS! it's YOUR BIRTHDAY
[05:24] <bddebian> Uhm
[05:25] <lamont-away> libs/gst-plugins0.8_0.8.11-0ubuntu4: Dep-Wait by buildd-hppa+bld-3 [optional:uncompiled] 
[05:25] <lamont-away>   Dependencies: libswfdec0.3-dev
[05:25] <lamont-away> libs/swfdec0.3_0.3.4-3ubuntu1: Dep-Wait by buildd-hppa+bld-3 [optional:uncompiled] 
[05:25] <lamont-away>   Dependencies: libgstreamer-gconf0.8-dev
[05:25] <bddebian> Heh
[05:25] <lamont-away> so I guess I get to bootstrap that one while muttering cureses
[05:26] <bddebian> Lucky you :-)
[05:36] <infinity> lamont-away : Bah, you know it'll just get assigned to me, and I'll curse your name.
[05:36] <lamont-away> it was autoassigned to seb
[05:37] <lamont-away> and the bug just says "break gstreamer0.8-swfdec out into it's own package, kthxbye"
[05:37] <bddebian> hehe
[05:37] <infinity> Ahh, if it doesn't have "FTBFS" anywhere in the bug, I won't get it, yay.
[05:37] <lamont-away> clearly a post-breezy bug
[05:38] <lamont-away> well, it does grumble about "circular build-depends"
[05:38] <infinity> Well, we're so painfully not bootstrappable from scorched earth, that I don't know if anyone even cares anymore.
[05:38] <jbailey> infinity: Were we ever?
[05:38] <lamont-away> outside of compilers, I don't think we're that bad
[05:39] <infinity> No, Debian never has been.
[05:39] <jbailey> infinity: Debian certainly isn't.
[05:39] <infinity> None of it's all that hard to work around, but you certainly can't just type "make world" and come back in a week to see what happened.
[05:40] <jbailey> infinity: There's a few evil spots.
[05:40] <jbailey> (starting from a cross-compiler)
[05:40] <fabbione> morning
[05:40] <infinity> Well, not counting compilers.
[05:40] <infinity> We still have a fair number of circular build-deps.
[05:40] <jbailey> Or the rest of the toolchain
[05:41] <jbailey> And, say, base.
[05:41] <infinity> If you get all of base, build-essential, and debhelper/debconf done manually, it gets a bit less ugly.
[05:41] <infinity> But gst-plugins isn't the only higher-level package that has lamont's gripe. :)
[05:42] <jbailey> I think perl was the suckiest one to build for hurd-i386 when I hadnled our last archive event.
[05:42] <jbailey> You know you're in trouble when suddenly you're building krb4 so that you can get openldap... =)
[05:42] <bddebian> heh
[05:42] <infinity> Well, apparently arm is dumping and rebuilding all of sid for an ABI switch or some such, so maybe they'll start filing circular build-dep bugs when they see them. :)
[05:43] <jbailey> Oh, are they doing the EABI now?
[05:43] <jbailey> Insane.
[05:43] <jbailey> They should've held off for working multiarch'
[05:43] <jbailey> Given it a new arch name, and just made them parallel installs.
[05:43] <infinity> Just caught it in someone's blog, don't know if it's actually happening.
[05:43] <jbailey> mips and arm each have completley new ABIs
[05:43] <jbailey> If mips does the N64
[05:45] <bddebian> heh
[05:45] <lamont-away> infinity: armeb?
[05:45] <lamont-away> which, of course, should really be called 'armbe'
[05:45] <jbailey> lamont-away: EABI, mre likely.
[05:46] <jbailey> lamont-away: They get things like a thread register. =)
[05:46] <jbailey> And working floating point.
[05:46] <lamont-away> ah, ok
[05:46] <bob2> or, perhaps armpickanendianismandstickwithit
[05:46] <lamont-away> anyway, bed
[05:46] <jbailey> g'n lamont.
[05:46] <bddebian> Gnight lamont 
[05:47] <jdub> armchooseyourownendventure
[06:04] <bob2> didn't the gnome-screensaver change get reverted?
[06:08] <mjg59> Yes
[06:29] <bob2> nm needs love
[06:30] <bddebian> Is that still not straightened out?
[06:30] <jdub> nm needs a sync from j^'s repo
[06:30] <bob2> it got synced last week
[06:30] <jdub> oh
[06:31] <jdub> probably right after i checked, too
[06:53] <bob2> er, woo, yay for being unbootable
[07:01] <wasabi> Is there an active initive for a nano ubuntu meta package/setup/etc for embeddedish systems?
[07:01] <jdub> check out the microbuntu spec
[07:01] <jdub> no work so far, though
[07:02] <wasabi> k
[07:02] <wasabi> I've got me a project at the office which calls for something similar, guess I'll just hack it together myself.
[07:03] <bob2> surely just using emdebian would be simpler?
[07:03] <wasabi> I like the dev pace of Ubuntu a bit better. :0
[07:04] <jdub> initramfs makes things interesting
[07:04] <wasabi> I'm just building a little nano itx fanless system to drive an office projector. People will walk in, it'll scan for their laptops in the room (bluetooth) and let them display their laptop on the projector (rdesktop/vnc/whatever)
[07:04] <wasabi> It'll have a flash based HD.
[07:04] <wasabi> So I want to rig something up that doesn't actually write.
[07:04] <wasabi> And fits in 256mb
[07:05] <infinity> Do a server install, grab deborphan, and start removing packages until it's tiny enough for you. :)
[07:05] <wasabi> Yeah. THat's hte plan.
[07:05] <wasabi> I think I'm going to play with / in a weird way. Sounds fun.  use a loopback device for root with a tmpfs unioned.
[07:05] <wasabi> So it's writable, but nothing saves.
[07:05] <infinity> Like a livecd.
[07:06] <wasabi> Yeah.
[07:06] <wasabi> It was awesome. I showed my boss how fast I could put this app together, it took about 30 minutes.
[07:06] <wasabi> gdm, autologin, launch a shell script. Shell script uses zenity to do basically everything.
[07:06] <wasabi> Super simple. ;)
[07:07] <jdub> zenity is rad for this stuff
[07:07] <wasabi> Yeah. It was so easy to get a useful app up and running.
[07:07] <wasabi> I mean, it's not "real development", but for some projects, it's perfect.
[07:08] <wasabi> I'm not totally sure how to set it up to mount / right though.
[07:08] <jdub> check out casper for its bind mount dm love
[07:09] <wasabi> that's a udeb, aye?
[07:09] <jdub> yeah
[07:09] <jdub> but you can apt-get source casper
[07:09] <wasabi> ahh nice
[07:11] <wasabi> I'm only doing this because from what I understand, it's not good to write flash disks a lot.
[07:11] <wasabi> (and it sounds cool)
[07:12] <jdub> most of them have sane wear-leveling, but better to be safe
[07:12] <wasabi> hope the sleep support works right on this box I'm setting up.
[07:17] <wasabi> hmm. initramfs is pretty simple
[07:17] <wasabi> built in support for rw/unionfsing the root drive would be pretty rad. ;)
[07:19] <wasabi> jbailey, ? :)
[07:38] <bob2> interesting, 2,6,12-9 doesn't boot on my desktop anymore
[07:39] <jdub> bob2: how does it fail?
[07:40] <bob2> hangs at "enabling additional executable formats"
[07:41] <bob2> which seems to be a coincidence, since it used to hang while enabling acpi
[08:00] <Burgundavia> jdub, should g-a-i be in applications and in system--> admin?
[08:17] <pitti> A lovely good morning to everybody!
[08:18] <HiddenWolf> 'morning to you. :)
[08:19] <lifeless> uhm
[08:19] <lifeless> replacing libsane.usermap shows an empty diff - wtf is it prompting me ?
[08:21] <crimsun> probably isn't ignoring trivial whitespace?
[08:21] <lifeless> not sure
[08:21] <lifeless> but it didn't even have a hunk marker
[08:21] <lifeless> and I'd not touched that file
[08:21] <crimsun> yeah, I noted that, too but just pressed 'y'
[08:25] <infinity> Did the file move between packages, or something?
[08:41] <ajmitch> morning JaneW 
[08:43] <JaneW> hi ajmitch 
[08:57] <dholbach> bon jour!
[08:59] <ajmitch> morning dholbach :)
[09:00] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[09:01] <dholbach> pitti: morgen martin! :)
[09:23] <sivang> pitti: Morning Martin
[09:23] <sivang> dholbach, others :)
[09:25] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[09:39] <zyga> morning :)
[09:39] <sivang> pitti: I discussed some bits of the cupsd bug last night with Keybuk
[09:40] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[09:40] <pitti> sivang: ah, any progress?
[09:40] <sivang> hey zyga 
[09:40] <sivang> pitti: not really :-/ Keybuk told me that from what he discovered, there is no reasonable way to do a reload without elevating back to root
[09:41] <sivang> pitti: Currently, cupsd installs sigterm instead of sighup when executed as a user
[09:41] <sivang> pitti: so, changes ought to be intrusive IMHO in order to workaround that
[09:41] <pitti> sivang: humm, merely redetecting printers should not require root
[09:42] <pitti> sivang: user "cupsys" is in group "lp" which can happily access all USB, parallel, and serial printers
[09:45] <poningru> question who handles mirrors for ubuntu apt repos?
[09:45] <poningru> cause a group of students here (including me) wanted to ask our uni to add ubuntu repos as a mirror
[09:46] <robitaille> poningru,  there is a mailinglist: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mirrors
[09:47] <sivang> pitti: so assuming I modify it to install a SIGHUP instead of SIGTERM when -HUP'd , I need to write a custom handler that just calls the printer detection code again, is that what you meant?
[09:47] <poningru> ic thanks
[09:47] <pitti> sivang: right
[09:47] <poningru> btw my uni already handles bunch of stuff for other distros
[09:47] <sivang> pitti: (first part of the sentence refers to when executed as undeprivileged user)
[09:47] <poningru> ftp.cise.ufl.edu if anyone is interested
[09:47] <sivang> pitti: ok, back to the drawing board :)
[09:47] <pitti> sivang: yes, if you run cups as root, the current behaviour should stay
[09:50] <dholbach> infinity: do you know more about the recently restarted test-rebuild (and where the old logs are)?
[09:52] <ajmitch> hi mvo 
[09:52] <dholbach> morning mvo
[09:53] <zyga> hello mvo
[09:53] <infinity> dholbach : Old logs are where they always are.
[09:53] <infinity> dholbach : http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/
[09:54] <dholbach> infinity: ok, i was talking about the breezy-autotest.failed.$arch  thingies
[09:54] <infinity> Ahh, no luck there.  There isn't an archive of the old wanna-build states, afaik.
[09:54] <dholbach> fuck
[09:54] <mvo> hello everyone :)
[10:00] <poningru> robitaille: question do other places mirror the repos? or is it just the install isos?
[10:00] <jsgotangco> hi mvo
[10:00] <doko> anybody here, who wants/can test eclipse on powerpc? (pitti ?)
[10:01] <robitaille> poningru,   I have no idea.  I just knew there was a mailing list :)
[10:01] <poningru> hehe thanks guess I will subscribe and ask there
[10:02] <robitaille> poningru, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive    has an email address at the end
[10:09] <crb> ogra/mdz: awake?
[10:09] <crb> dholbach has asked me to bug you regarding being able to edit bugs for triage in #ubuntu-desktop.
[10:09] <bob2> hah
[10:09] <dholbach> crb: your mail adress is: craig@dubculture.co.nz?
[10:09] <crb> It is
[10:09] <dholbach> crb: then your changes to the bug were accepted
[10:09] <crb> yes, just not the URL field.
[10:10] <dholbach> oh i see
[10:10] <dholbach> hope ogra will be soon awake so he can take care of it - until then i add it, ok?
[10:10] <crb> sure, no trouble
[10:11] <ajmitch> crb: thought I recognised the nick
[10:11] <crb> ajmitch: hi
[10:11] <ajmitch> hello
[10:11] <sivang> hi mvo 
[10:12] <mdz> crb: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[10:12] <mdz> crb: have you read that?
[10:13] <crb> I have 
[10:13] <mdz> crb: any questions about it?
[10:13] <crb> np
[10:13] <crb> no
[10:13] <mdz> crb: what is your bugzilla login?
[10:14] <bob2> wow, you need special permission to fiddle bugs?
[10:14] <ajmitch> bob2: in bugzilla, yes
[10:14] <crb> craig@dubculture.co.nz
[10:15] <mdz> crb: you have editbugs now
[10:15] <mvo> ping segfault 
[10:15] <crb> thanks
[10:19] <dholbach> goooood morning, seb!
[10:19] <ajmitch> hi seb128 
[10:20] <seb128> hey dholbach ajmitch
[10:20] <mvo> hey seb128 
[10:20] <seb128> hey mvo pitti
[10:23] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[10:23] <pitti> doko: argh, another disk and mem hog? :-)
[10:24] <doko> pitti: I don't know, who to ask else ...
[10:24] <pitti> doko: *sigh* toss it over :-)
[10:26] <doko> pitti: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/eclipse-powerpc/ ./
[10:28] <doko> pitti: maybe check first without the three *-gcj packages (interpreted mode), then with the -gcj packages
[10:28] <pitti> doko: what happened to openoffice.org2-l10n-{bs,lt}? they just disappeared
[10:30] <mvo> seb128: is someone from the frensh i18n team working on updating the apt translation? I want to do a upload soon (to fix ubuntu 15603), would be nice if that could be included
[10:31] <seb128> mvo: there was at 100% yesterday
[10:31] <seb128> mvo: rosetta already get your changes from yesterday?
[10:31] <seb128> I'll update the few new ones
[10:32] <doko> pitti: see the changelog, disabled. I'll look at them again for the next upload
[10:32] <mvo> seb128: I can't find it in rosetta :/
[10:32] <pitti> doko: so shall I throw them out of language-support or keep them? l-s-{bs,lt} are uninstallable because of that
[10:34] <seb128> mvo: ups, I've apt-get source it indead
[10:34] <seb128> mvo: that's because you don't ship any .pot with the package ... any reason for that?
[10:36] <mvo> seb128: I have po/apt-all.pot here
[10:36] <doko> pitti: I'm trying to have an upload on Friday, will start a test build today in the dc
[10:36] <pitti> doko: ok, then I leave it for now; thanks
[10:37] <seb128> mvo: right, so that's a question for carlos (maybe pitti?)
[10:38] <pitti> mvo: carlos should be able to help you with rosetta; so apt isn't imported into Rosetta at all?
[10:39] <seb128> pitti: seems so, there is no translation page for it
[10:40] <pitti> BenC: ping
[10:41] <\sh> elmo: can u have a look on the latest free realplayer package from Real? is it ok for us to upgrade the realplayer package in multiverse?
[10:41] <pitti> doko: which eclipse package shall I install? e-base?
[10:41] <pitti> doko: (I never used eclipse so far)
[10:41] <\sh> elmo: regarding the license ;)
[10:42] <doko> pitti: eclipse-sdk
[10:43] <doko> and after that: eclipse-rcp-gcj, eclipse-platform-gcj, eclipse-jdt-gcj
[10:57] <zyga> seb128: hi
[10:57] <zyga> seb128: I've fixed all calendar packages, sorry I could not resist
[10:58] <\sh> elmo: please sync sylpheed-claws-gtk2_1.9.14-1 from unstable (universe that is) thx
[10:59] <zyga> mvo: how is synaptic looking?
[11:00] <seb128> zyga: k
[11:01] <seb128> jdub: around?
[11:01] <seb128> carlos: hi
[11:01] <zyga> seb128: ping me if you want all the diffs
[11:01] <carlos> seb128, hi
[11:01] <seb128> carlos: do you know why rosetta has no apt po files?
[11:01] <sivang> pitti: got my email?
[11:01] <mvo> zyga: the backpotr the i18n patch? haven't looked yet, sorry
[11:02] <jdub> seb128: yo
[11:02] <seb128> jdub: hey
[11:02] <zyga> mvo: if you find a moment pleas do so, I'd love to translate remaining messages 
[11:03] <seb128> jdub: why does ubuntu-artwork install stuff to gnome-wallpaper-properties instead of gnome-background-properties ?
[11:03] <jdub> seb128: for some reason, it was done that way in warty - from memory, it had to do with the monthly background stuff
[11:04] <jdub> seb128: so symlinks were added, and now it's a bit b0rk
[11:04] <seb128> jdub: what prevent the monthly background to use gnome-background-properties folder?
[11:04] <carlos> seb128, 05:48:54 WARNING Error scanning tarball: The source package apt for breezy has more than one .pot file in source/build/po/domains/libapt-pkg3.9. Ignoring the tarball.
[11:05] <seb128> jdub: just trying to get why it is this way before changing stuff made on purpose
[11:05] <seb128> carlos: what do you need to fix that?
[11:05] <seb128> carlos: thanks BTW :)
[11:05] <jdub> seb128: i don't remember, but it doesn't matter -> fix it at will
[11:05] <carlos> seb128, that we get only one .pot file per directory
[11:05] <jdub> seb128: i'm actually doing a respin of that package tonight, so if you know how to fix it properly, please blat me a patch :)
[11:05] <seb128> carlos: you have to way to force the right one?
[11:06] <carlos> seb128, I can change by hand the tarball
[11:06] <carlos> but next update will fail again
[11:06] <seb128> jdub: zyga has been working on that, seems that he only install files to /usr/share/gnome-background-properties 
[11:06] <seb128> mvo: why does apt has different .pot?
[11:06] <mvo> carlos: the interessting bit is po/apt-all.pot
[11:06] <jdub> that's what the current packges do
[11:06] <pitti> jamesh: here?
[11:07] <mvo> seb128: historical reasons, the build-system is "different" than most auto-tools using programs
[11:07] <seb128> jdub: right, that's the -calendar which are wrongs :/
[11:09] <jdub> seb128: the old ones, yeah
[11:09] <ogra> dholbach, you pinged  ?
[11:09] <ogra> morning
[11:10] <dholbach> ogra: it's all sorted out, was about editbugs privileges for crb
[11:10] <ogra> ah, i see, sorted
[11:10] <zyga> re
[11:12] <zyga> jdub: I have tested this on breezy
[11:12] <zyga> jdub: new package simply installs in the proper place and conflicts + replaces the old one
[11:12] <zyga> jdub: it works like a charm
[11:15] <seb128> "shutdown -r now" turning the box instead of restarting it ... which pacakage is to blame for that (#16340), linux?
[11:16] <fabbione> seb128: dpkg -S shutdown ?
[11:17] <fabbione> seb128: you also want to check if they issued the ioctl to make the machine do a hard reboot on shutdown
[11:17] <fabbione> (it's configurable)
[11:18] <fabbione> seb128: hmm.. i blame mjg59 :)
[11:18] <seb128> fabbione: the "dpkg -S shutdown" is to point sysvinit or a question for the submitter?
[11:18] <seb128> fabbione: how do you configure that?
[11:18] <fabbione> seb128: it's an ioctl via /proc
[11:18] <carlos> mvo, seb128 Could you fix the 'apt' package?
[11:18] <fabbione> i don't remember the details
[11:19] <seb128> fabbione: k, thanks
[11:19] <Kamion> that would be sysctl rather than ioctl probably?
[11:19] <carlos> mvo, seb128 it's a matter of move three .pot files inside the right path
[11:19] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. sorry...
[11:19] <mvo> carlos: I just looked at it, it looks like it's not easy to fix because the makefile assumes the pot files in the po dir
[11:21] <carlos> mvo, but the .pot file is inside po and the .po ones inside domains/$domain?
[11:21] <carlos> mvo, how is that?
[11:21] <Kamion> hmm, I have a nasty feeling that this bug fix I'm currently doing is going to hide #13250 further so that it's still latent but harder to reproduce
[11:21] <Kamion> argh
[11:22] <zyga> is there a bugzilla bot around here?
[11:25] <mvo> carlos: in the LANG_POFILE rule, it runs  "$(MSGMERGE) $(notdir $@) $(PO)/$(call GETDOMAIN,$*).pot -o $@"
[11:26] <mvo> carlos: I have a look now
[11:26] <carlos> mvo, ok, found the solution
[11:26] <carlos> mvo, apt-all.pot has all strings and translations from the build directory, right?
[11:26] <mvo> carlos: yes
[11:27] <pitti> seb128: mind if I take #16070 from you?
[11:27] <ogra> dholbach, send to doesnt work with a motorola razor (but i think its rather a low level prob, i can send to the laptop, but nor from it)
[11:27] <ogra> s/nor/not
[11:27] <carlos> mvo, could you add a rule that removes those .pot files so we only have the apt-all.pot?
[11:27] <seb128> pitti: that's *mine*
[11:27] <seb128> :p
[11:27] <pitti> seb128: ok, ok :-)
[11:27] <seb128> pitti: joking, sure take it :)
[11:27] <carlos> mvo, just before the rule added by pitti to extract the .po files
[11:27] <pitti> seb128: I get the same behavior, and it is annoying
[11:27] <seb128> pitti: it opens nautilus on the wrong folder?
[11:27] <mvo> carlos: oh, you mean in the rules file. nice idea
[11:28] <dholbach> ogra: you send from your box to the phone? and not the other way around?
[11:28] <seb128> pitti: is nautilus crashing or what?
[11:28] <pitti> seb128: yes, it always opens ~
[11:28] <carlos> mvo, yeah
[11:28] <dholbach> ogra: oh sorry, now i understand
[11:28] <pitti> seb128: no, it just opens ~ instead of e. g. /media/PittiUSB
[11:28] <ogra> dholbach, i tried both ways... from the box to the phone doesnt work
[11:28] <seb128> pitti: what I got from the description but it works fine for me, you are welcome to debug it
[11:28] <mvo> carlos: trying now
[11:28] <seb128> pitti: thanks :)
[11:28] <pitti> seb128: I wanted to fix it anyway, and now I found a matching bug
[11:29] <dholbach> ogra: but you did the pairing dance? exchanged a pin and everything and have gnome-obex-server running?
[11:29] <carlos> mvo, wait
[11:29] <ogra> hmm, i dont need a pin for sending to the box from the phone...
[11:29] <carlos> mvo, hmm, that's not the solution
[11:29] <seb128> mvo: did you speak with pitti about cdrdao?
[11:29] <carlos> mvo, why are we using only one .pot file when we have three domains?
[11:29] <ogra> let me grab that phone manual :)
[11:29] <carlos> mvo, language packs need that we have the three languagepacks
[11:29] <dholbach> ogra: :)
[11:30] <carlos> the three domains no languagepacks
[11:30] <carlos> mvo, we cannot just import apt-all.pot
[11:31] <mvo> carlos: hrm, so it would require the three different domains in three different dirs?
[11:31] <carlos> mvo, yeah
[11:31] <carlos> and kill apt-all.pot
[11:31] <carlos> mvo, how is that we have an apt-all.pot file??
[11:32] <carlos> mvo, we have three directories already, we just need to move the .pot file inside the domains directories where the .po files are
[11:33] <mvo> carlos: to make the life of the translators easier, they can work with apt-all.pot and the build-system will deal with the rest
[11:33] <carlos> mvo, I suppose that's a Debian solution, right?
[11:33] <carlos> mvo, because it's useless for Ubuntu
[11:35] <mvo> carlos: it's the apt solution ...
[11:36] <carlos> mvo, is there any easy way to fix it the way I told you ?
[11:36] <lifeless> mvo: just the man
[11:36] <mvo> carlos: looking at it now
[11:36] <lifeless> mvo: synaptic did something weird today
[11:37] <mvo> lifeless: what exactly?
[11:37] <lifeless> I had it open on virtual desktop 3, it popped up a config file keep/replace question
[11:37] <lifeless> but alt-tab did not show that questions window
[11:37] <seb128> carlos: you should have a way to specify exceptions, ie: what pot file to pick for a package
[11:37] <zyga> lifeless: I get that too
[11:37] <lifeless> so I had by mistake clicked on a foreground window
[11:37] <zyga> lifeless: the window does not show in the taskbar either
[11:37] <lifeless> and couldn't find the question window again
[11:38] <lifeless> I had to go though all my windows and minimise them :[
[11:38] <mvo> lifeless: thanks. I'll fix that so that the window appears in the window list
[11:38] <lifeless> mvo: np
[11:40] <carlos> seb128, I know, but I don't have time to fix all those issues now so it's the only way to get updates. I can do a manual fix (I'm doing it now) but the updates will not be imported automatically
[11:49] <fabbione> daniels: ping?
[11:50] <daniels> pong
[11:50] <fabbione> i think i found out why #16035
[11:50] <`anthony> will the GCC version in breezy be updated before the final release? I'm seeing some really funky funky warnings that make no sense at all from it.
[11:50] <fabbione> we don't check if the user did actually select a resolution
[11:50] <`anthony> I notice it's a pre-release version.
[11:50] <fabbione> we just assume he does
[11:51] <ogra> dholbach, its my phone :/ it obviously has no recieving options at all :/
[11:51] <fabbione> daniels: given that we answer nothing, we keep parsing the result as empty
[11:51] <fabbione> daniels: so MAXRES is set to null at expr operation
[11:51] <fabbione> daniels: i am burning a live to reproduce it
[11:52] <daniels> yeah, probably
[11:52] <dholbach> ogra: try to browse for services with sdptool - i can't believe that the phone is not capable of doing so
[11:52] <daniels> i'd argue that's pathological enough to be 'user error' though
[11:52] <fabbione> either the question is not asked
[11:52] <fabbione> or the user didn't answer
[11:52] <daniels> well, it said /modes was asked
[11:52] <pitti> `anthony: we should not update it if we can avoid it
[11:52] <daniels> so yeah, it could occur if they deselected all the default resolutions
[11:52] <fabbione> yes, but not that it was shown
[11:52] <daniels> in which case, I don't know that we should even attempt to create a configuration file
[11:52] <fabbione> you see the same even if it's not prompted for real
[11:53] <daniels> doesn't matter, we have defaults set
[11:53] <ogra> dholbach, the manual doesnt state such a capability anywhere, but i'll try
[11:53] <daniels> so if it wasn't shown, we'd get an answer back
[11:53] <fabbione> daniels: i am not sure.. you reset the templates somewhere in postinst
[11:53] <fabbione> does it keep the default in that case?
[11:53] <dholbach> ogra: i was quite happy with the results of sdptool
[11:54] <daniels> fabbione: yes
[11:54] <fabbione> daniels: the sane thing is that if there is no answer from the user (he deselects everything) we should ask again
[11:55] <fabbione> + db_get xserver-xorg/config/display/modes
[11:55] <fabbione> + _db_cmd 'GET xserver-xorg/config/display/modes'
[11:55] <fabbione> + echo 'GET xserver-xorg/config/display/modes'
[11:55] <fabbione> + IFS='
[11:55] <fabbione> '
[11:55] <fabbione> + read -r _db_internal_line
[11:55] <fabbione> + RET=
[11:55] <fabbione> there is clearly nothing selected there
[11:55] <fabbione> either debconf did fart badly
[11:55] <fabbione> or the user is on crack
[11:55] <daniels> if you go into an infinite loop, then the only way to kill it is with, well, kill
[11:55] <daniels> i'd like for that not to be the case
[11:56] <fabbione> daniels: we can avoid infinite loops. by asking no more than 3 times
[11:56] <fabbione> after that we error badly
[11:56] <fabbione> "IZ THAT WHATA WANT?"
[11:57] <daniels> okay, I'll check it out
[11:57] <Kamion> fabbione: it's a multiselect; selecting nothing's perfectly in-spec
[11:57] <daniels> but still, that's a pathological case to be designing for
[11:57] <seb128> daniels: hey. I poke you some time ago about the hoary liveCD doing 640x480 only on a "intel 82865G" based box where warty was doing 1024x768. You said it has been fixed after hoary, but colony5 still has the issue ... anything that you need to fix it?
[11:57] <ogra> dholbach, nothing...
[11:57] <daniels> Kamion: in-spec, yes; sensible, no
[11:57] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, i know
[11:58] <daniels> seb128: hmm.  desktop system, right?
[11:58] <seb128> daniels: yeah
[11:58] <fabbione> Kamion: i didn't complain that was out-spec. there might have still been a debconf crack
[11:58] <Kamion> fabbione: I don't believe it :)
[11:58] <dholbach> ogra: but bluetooth is turned on? did you turn on "show device" on your phone? you might want to investigate in this pairing thing
[11:58] <fabbione> Kamion: still... it can happen :)
[11:59] <fabbione> Kamion: that's why i did expose more than one possibility
[11:59] <daniels> Kamion: (seems like my policy of blaming debconf for xserver-xorg configuration bugs is contagious.)
[11:59] <`anthony> pitti: Ok. I will log a bug against it, then.
[11:59] <Kamion> daniels: I think it's been right a total of once so far ;)
[11:59] <daniels> Kamion: one outta three ain't bad.
[11:59] <Kamion> actually, is that even true? can't remember
[12:00] <fabbione> well i am going to eat some food and test it
[12:00] <Kamion> there's probably been one instance of mad passthrough lunacy
[12:00] <daniels> Kamion: (to be fair, the weirdarse set-value-not-in-select-silently-fails bug wasn't being blamed on Debconf until I'd spent several hours unable to see the blindingly obvious problem.)
[12:00] <daniels> yeah, we've had passthrough stupidity.
[12:02] <ogra> dholbach, ahh, i see a list now :)
[12:04] <dholbach> ogra: hsprang (known as lazyb0y nowadays) just works 15 minutes from here for the next weeks :)
[12:05] <ogra> great :)
[12:07] <Kamion> that said about lower levels, I'm beginning to think #13250 must be a crash in libparted or something like that
[12:07] <seb128> daniels: ?
[12:08] <pitti> seb128: cool, I now have a drivemount applet that actually works and on top has sensible names
[12:08] <seb128> pitti: "sensible names"?
[12:08] <seb128> pitti: what was the bug?
[12:08] <pitti> seb128: before I had "OTi flash disk" and "OTi flash disk (2)", now I have "PittiUSB" and "PittiExt3" (the volume labels)
[12:09] <seb128> ah, nice
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: the bug was that dm-a prefered drives over volumes and ignored attached volumes
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: therefore activation_uri was NULL and nautilus was called without parameters
[12:09] <pitti> (-> thus it showed home)
[12:09] <seb128> oh, k
[12:09] <seb128> explain why it works with my fat32 mounted drive :p
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: now I do it the other way round: if there is a volume, I do not display the matching drive
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: do you get your device label as tooltip?
[12:10] <daniels> seb128: oh, uhm
[12:10] <seb128> pitti: cool. Do you put the patch upstream too?
[12:10] <daniels> seb128: output from sudo ddcprobe?
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: I'll mail it to jamesh, he can commit it himself and clean up if he wants
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: that ok?
[12:10] <daniels> seb128: (sorry, missed your reply)
[12:10] <seb128> daniels: let me know what they need to try. That's not for one of my box
[12:11] <seb128> so it'll take some time to ping/pong
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: hm, it seems that I need the drive for unmounted volumes, darn
[12:11] <seb128> pitti: not sure than jamesh is the only maintainer for that, usually bugzilla.gnome is better
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: otherwise I can't remount; gotta work some more on it
[12:12] <seb128> maybe davyd or desrt want to commit it
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: ok, I'll file a bug upstream
[12:12] <seb128> thanks
[12:13] <jamesh> pitti: bugzilla'ing it and CC'ing me would be good
[12:13] <seb128> hey jamesh
[12:14] <pitti> jamesh: ah, you are here - maybe you can give me a hint about it?
[12:14] <pitti> jamesh: did you read the explanation above?
[12:14] <jamesh> pitti: the drive mount applet code is mostly mine (the code to launch the CD player and stuff in 2.12 isn't)
[12:14] <ajmitch> hi kobold 
[12:14] <kobold> ajmitch: hi!
[12:14] <ajmitch> kobold: quick question, is it worth keeping zope-ldap around?
[12:14] <seb128> jamesh: do you have an idea of why launchpad_integration_add_ui () gives these "assertion `gtk_accel_group_from_accel_closure (accel_closure) != NULL'"
[12:14] <seb128> ?
[12:14] <pitti> jamesh: we must not throw away volumes of attached drives since it's volumes that we open, not drives
[12:15] <pitti> jamesh: OTOH we need the drives for remounting unmounted volumes
[12:15] <kobold> ajmitch: I don't know if someone is using it, sorry.
[12:15] <jamesh> seb128: no
[12:15] <kobold> I've never used it.
[12:15] <pitti> jamesh: so we need both, but should not display drives if there is a matching volume
[12:15] <ajmitch> kobold: hm, looks like it's deprecated upstream (quite dead), but someone is using it in ubuntu
[12:15] <ajmitch> chmj: you have an updated package that has been sent to you?
[12:16] <kobold> if someone is using it, then just leave it around.
[12:16] <jamesh> pitti: the code doesn't throw away volumes attached to drives -- it just handles drives and unassociated volumes separately
[12:16] <ajmitch> kobold: yeah, it's got a bug in breezy that is needing fixed :)
[12:16] <pitti> jamesh: it does - look in add_volume(): if there is a matching drive, you do not add the volume
[12:16] <kobold> ajmitch: which bug? could you please give me an URL?
[12:17] <jamesh> pitti: that's because we've already added the drive though, right?
[12:17] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/zope-ldap/+bug/2359
[12:17] <daniels> seb128: okay ... just sudo ddcprobe would be cool
[12:17] <pitti> jamesh: but that's necessary since a drive does not have an activation_uri and no proper label
[12:17] <daniels> seb128: as well as Xorg.0.log
[12:17] <mvo> carlos: is it enough to have one pot per dir and no other pots around? or will apt have to do more than that?
[12:17] <seb128> daniels: k, I'll ask and ping you again
[12:17] <pitti> jamesh: see bug #16070
[12:17] <jamesh> pitti: the mounted volume associated with the drive has an activation uri though
[12:18] <pitti> jamesh: right, that's why my current patch throws away the drive if there is a volume
[12:18] <jamesh> pitti: that doesn't make sense.
[12:18] <pitti> jamesh: that works fine for mounted volumes; they open nicely in nautilus and have a good name
[12:18] <pitti> jamesh: but now I don't get drives when I unmount the volumes
[12:18] <daniels> seb128: cool, thanks
[12:18] <pitti> jamesh: do you think you have some minutes to look into this
[12:18] <pitti> ?
[12:18] <kobold> ajmitch: you are wrong, you can handle multiple products in a source package.
[12:19] <ajmitch> kobold: there are a few other zope bugs on malone that can probably get closed after I confirm they're fixed :)
[12:19] <jamesh> pitti: sure.
[12:19] <ajmitch> kobold: right, the way I was using dh_installzope caused it to say that it couldn't
[12:19] <pitti> jamesh: <pitti> seb128: before I had "OTi flash disk" and "OTi flash disk (2)", now I have "PittiUSB" and "PittiExt3" (the volume labels)
[12:19] <pitti> jamesh: that's another reason to use volumes and not drives
[12:19] <jamesh> pitti: it's possible that it got broken in 2.12
[12:19] <kobold> ajmitch: see zope-cps in debian experimental, for example.
[12:20] <kobold> I wouldn't remove zope-ldap just because it have multiple products in a source package.. :-)
[12:20] <pitti> jamesh: from gdb'ing, it does not seem to be broken - drives conceptually should not have a volume label nor an activation URI, right?
[12:20] <ajmitch> kobold: no, I only saw that it was a little stale upstream :)
[12:20] <jamesh> pitti: the idea is that a drive represents a physical device, while a volume represents a partition on the device
[12:20] <pitti> jamesh: right, and we want to open a partition, we can't open a drive
[12:21] <jamesh> pitti: so for instance, you don't eject volumes; you eject drives
[12:21] <mvo> pitti: does pkgstriptranslations extracts the pot file too? 
[12:21] <pitti> mvo: yes
[12:21] <jamesh> pitti: and when you eject the drive, all the volumes associated with the drive go
[12:21] <pitti> jamesh: well, eject will always unmount all volumes on a drive
[12:21] <pitti> jamesh: right
[12:21] <pitti> jamesh: eject takes care of that
[12:22] <fabbione> daniels: yes.. i can confirm that without selecting anything we fail
[12:22] <mvo> pitti: will it just look for pot files in the build-tree and use them? or will I need to trigger it in some way?
[12:22] <pitti> mvo: it grabs all pot files it can find in the source directory
[12:22] <mvo> pitti: ok, thanks
[12:23] <carlos> mvo, just move the .pot files with the .po files for that domain
[12:23] <carlos> and that's enough
[12:23] <ajmitch> kobold: the other 2 zope bugs I haven't checked, want the urls to have a quick glance?
[12:24] <jamesh> pitti: so the idea was to have one button for the drive, rather than one button for the volume
[12:24] <kobold> ajmitch: yes, thanks.
[12:24] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/zope2.7/+bug/590
[12:24] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/zope2.7/+bug/653
[12:24] <jamesh> pitti: I didn't get round to implementing multiple "open volume" menu items, because the gnome-vfs backend didn't seem to ever associate multiple volumes with a drive
[12:24] <ajmitch> 653 looks to be long since fixed
[12:24] <pitti> jamesh: but my usb stick has two partitions, so I need two buttons anyway
[12:25] <pitti> jamesh: right, I currently get one drive and one volume per partition, and an additional drive for /dev/sda
[12:25] <pitti> jamesh: that is a bit weird, since /dev/sda{1,2} shouldn't technically be drives
[12:26] <pitti> jamesh: so in the end drivemount applet only maintains three drives 
[12:26] <jamesh> pitti: I haven't looked at how it works with the HAL backend, but for the older fstab/mtab watcher backend, it went something like this:
[12:26] <jamesh> each user mountable entry in /etc/fstab gets a GnomeVFSDrive
[12:27] <jamesh> each entry in /etc/mtab gets a GnomeVFSVolume, associating the volume with a drive if the mount points match
[12:27] <jamesh> tha HAL backend should be able to do better, but I don't know if it actually does.
[12:28] <pitti> jamesh: the current behaviour is quite consistent to that AFAICS
[12:29] <kobold> ajmitch: I have no clues about 590 ...
[12:29] <ajmitch> kobold: I haven't been able to reproduce it on breezy, and it was filed back in may
[12:30] <jamesh> pitti: yeah.  last I looked, it was using fstab for GnomeVFSDrives, and using HAL to look up mounted volumes
[12:30] <kobold> ajmitch: how could I subscribe myself to zope* bugs?
[12:30] <ajmitch> kobold: currently I don't think you can subscribe to packages like that
[12:31] <kobold> ajmitch: neither single packages?
[12:31] <ajmitch> probably another wishlist bug to file for malone
[12:31] <kobold> ajmitch: 653 has been fixed...
[12:31] <pitti> jamesh: in fact, the computer:/// place does it absolutely right
[12:31] <ajmitch> kobold: I'll close #653, perhaps ask in #launchpad about the subscribing
[12:32] <jamesh> pitti: that's the code I based the drivemount code on, actually.
[12:32] <kobold> ajmitch: do you receive the bugs by email or what?
[12:32] <jamesh> computer:// uses the GnomeVFSVolumeMonitor API too
[12:32] <ajmitch> kobold: yes, but I receive all the bugs assigned to MOTU
[12:32] <ajmitch> kobold: perhaps we could have a zope team on launchpad to assign bugs to
[12:32] <kobold> ajmitch: I think we definitely need it.
[12:33] <ajmitch> it's a lot
[12:33] <ajmitch> because it includes all the bug comments, status changes etc
[12:34] <kobold> could you do something or ask about "Zope team" on launchpad? it would be great to see it happens.
[12:34] <ajmitch> sure, it will only take a couple of minutes to setup
[12:34] <kobold> ajmitch: thanks!
[12:35] <zyga> hey
[12:35] <zyga> will someone take a triviall fix for epiphany
[12:35] <zyga> the download manager displays 'progress bar label|%d%%' at the progress bar
[12:35] <zyga> (which is obviously broken)
[12:36] <zyga> someone forgot to pass it thru GUI gettext stripper function
[12:36] <zyga> anyone?
[12:36] <pitti> zyga: do you have a patch?
[12:36] <zyga> pitti: I will in a moment, building now
[12:37] <jamesh> pitti: how's this look? http://pastebin.com/376659
[12:38] <ajmitch> kobold: https://launchpad.net/people/zope
[12:38] <zyga> pitti: BTW: someone should rename epiphany to epiphany-game and make epiphany a dummy package 
[12:38] <pitti> jamesh: that should solve the activation_uri bug
[12:38] <zyga> s/ny/my/
[12:38] <pitti> jamesh: it still leaves the label bug, but that's not too important
[12:39] <Kamion> kobold: anyone can create a team in launchpad, btw; getting it to be the default assignee is a different matter ;)
[12:39] <ajmitch> Kamion: we'll just manually assign for now - the numbers of unassigned bugs are manageable
[12:39] <Kamion> sure
[12:39] <kobold> ajmitch: could you please approve me? O:-)
[12:40] <Kamion> I did a pass over installer bugs misfiled in Malone last night, for much the same purpose
[12:40] <ajmitch> dholbach does fairly regular assignments of bugs now
[12:40] <mvo> carlos: I prepared something to make apt rosetta friendly, could you have a look before I upload? I don't want to upload twice because of some wrong assumption/error in my changes
[12:41] <ajmitch> kobold: you're an admin of the team now
[12:41] <kobold> ajmitch: thanks ...
[12:42] <jdub> http://jehaisleprintemps.net/detail.php?id=1172&lang=fr
[12:42] <jdub> seb128: ^^
[12:42] <mvo> carlos:http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/apt/rosetta/ 
[12:43] <seb128> jdub: cool :)
[12:44] <kobold> ajmitch: how could we set zope team as maintainer of zope packages? is this possible?
[12:44] <ajmitch> kobold: not yet, as the packages aren't setup as launchpad packages yet, afaict
[12:45] <kobold> I have to admit that launchpad really rocks.. and I look forward to see it completed.
[12:46] <ogra> ajmitch, isnt zope in main ? 
[12:46] <kobold> ogra: zope2.8 and zope3 are in main.
[12:47] <ogra> ah, thats why you cant use launchpad then :)
[12:47] <ajmitch> ogra: a number of products are in universe still :)
[12:47] <ogra> fun...
[12:48] <ogra> bugtracker mix :)
[12:48] <ajmitch> kobold: used zope3 much for development?
[12:48] <ajmitch> ogra: hopefully not for too much longer :)
[12:48] <ogra> i suspect sabdfl will call for launchpad for main at UBZ
[12:49] <ajmitch> yep
[12:49] <ogra> (he did that at UDU too ;) )
[12:49] <ogra> but stepped back ... :)
[12:49] <ajmitch> except after UDU, malone got some good hammering from us :)
[12:49] <ogra> yup
[12:49] <ajmitch> and is now getting closer to usable for main
[12:51] <fabbione> daniels: i am testing the fix right now.. do you have any other changes pending?
[12:51] <daniels> fabbione: no, tbh I'm still catching up on -70 and some bug mail
[12:52] <fabbione> daniels: i can mail you the diff for -70
[12:52] <fabbione> i kept it locally
[12:52] <daniels> ah, it's okay thanks
[12:53] <fabbione> i am keeping a lock on -71
[12:53] <fabbione> if i get the fix right i am going to upload it
[12:53] <jdub> wow, fridge is in google already
[12:53] <ajmitch> jdub: and the forums, apparantly
[12:53] <fabbione> daniels: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/debian-from-69-to-70.diff
[12:53] <daniels> -71 is all yours
[12:54] <daniels> i'll catch up with -72 later
[12:54] <fabbione> ok
[12:55] <zyga> pitti: that's a nastier bug than I expected but I'm on it - I just need to fetch devhelp for gtk to know how to fix it
[12:55] <zyga> pitti: the message comes from the default gtk progress cell renderer
[12:58] <Kamion> Mithrandir: wanna join the ubuntu-installer team in launchpad? I was thinking of getting some friendly lp admin to set it as default assignee for a bunch of stuff
[12:58] <Kamion> ("no" is a valid answer, though ;))
[01:00] <zyga> any gtk guru could help tell me what does Q_ do and how does it differs from _?
[01:00] <zyga> const char *Q_(const char *);
[01:01] <ajmitch> kobold: do you think there's time to get a number of the zope products in breezy back in sync with debian?
[01:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: how do I do that?
[01:04] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm utterly unable to locate any "team list" or something like that.
[01:05] <Kamion> (https://launchpad.net/people has a team list)
[01:11] <zyga> pitti: it looks fixed
[01:13] <Kamion> heh
[01:13] <Kamion> you have more than one? spares?
[01:13] <pitti> zyga: nice, thanks! seb128 will love you
[01:13] <sivang> that sould be registered as a GUI usability bug
[01:13] <klepas> would you guys be able to answer me a quick question?
[01:14] <zyga> pitti: should I send him the patch?
[01:14] <sivang> klepas: is it a development question?
[01:14] <klepas> no one in #ubuntu seems to know the answer.
[01:14] <klepas> Sadly not.
[01:14] <JaneW> BreezyGoals owners - please check your goals, most of these have not been updated for some time (even though they are complete).  Please add a note detailing current state of goal, and if any further work is required.
[01:14] <klepas> It's to do with UIDs
[01:14] <pitti> zyga: maybe easiest would be to open a bug and attach the patch to it, then whoever grabs it first will upload it
[01:14] <klepas> and editing them in the cli
[01:15] <pitti> klepas: I answer in #ubuntu
[01:15] <fabbione> daniels: AHAHA i was right!
[01:15] <klepas> :)
[01:15] <fabbione> daniels: he didn't select any resolution
[01:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, that too.  Haven't you read the latest harry potter?
[01:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes :)
[01:17] <JaneW> please also update the status (hopefully to Completed)
[01:17] <JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyGoals
[01:17] <JaneW> If any part are deferred, please let me know so I can add these details to the deferred goals table
[01:17] <zyga> pitti: good idea
[01:19] <sivang> zyga: which bug# ?
[01:20] <jbailey> wasabi: IIRC, mdz was playing with unionfs and initramfs and was having some major kernel issues, dunno the final solution.
[01:21] <zyga> sivang: none, I didn't bothered to look - I just fixed it
[01:21] <fabbione> unionfs is teh OOPS
[01:21] <zyga> sivang: epiphany-browser does not update the label in download manager progress bar
[01:25] <segfault> morning.
[01:25] <sivang> zyga: heh yeah, seb128 *loves* epiphany :)
[01:26] <zyga> seb128: ping ;-)
[01:26] <doko> seb128: does fontconfig/gnome make font substitutions on it's own, if it doesn't find an appropriate font? I.e. Bitstream Vera Serif isn't available as oblique font in the font selection panel, but applications like abiword allow me to print it as italic ...
[01:29] <fabbione> jbailey: Kamion is building another sparc CD.. this one should go all the way to Ubuntu desktop
[01:29] <pitti> jamesh: ok, I apply your patch now, thanks!
[01:29] <fabbione> jbailey: if you can check on the fly the stuff i did ask, i can still try to fix X autodetection
[01:29] <pitti> jamesh: we'll leave the label problem to Dapper then?
[01:30] <jbailey> fabbione: 'kay.  Do you know when it'll be ready?  I still have the sparc box wired up.
[01:30] <jamesh> pitti: I guess so.  Do you have any other ideas for the applet?
[01:30] <fabbione> jbailey: pretty soon i guess
[01:30] <pitti> jamesh: hm, it works fine for me
[01:31] <pitti> jamesh: otherwise
[01:33] <sivang> pitti: patches for lpi by any chance?
[01:33] <pitti> sivang: for an applet that hardly makes sense, or does it?
[01:33] <pitti> sivang: or wait, it does have a menu
[01:34] <sivang> pitti: I meant for the patches jamesh sent you, were they for lpi ?
[01:34] <sivang> pitti: if so, which applet
[01:34] <pitti> sivang: no, they fix the nautilus opening for a volume
[01:34] <pitti> sivang: drivemount-applet
[01:40] <\sh> daniels: ping
[01:41] <\sh> daniels: do u know any issues with keyboard mappings after upgrading from warty -> hoary -> breezy?
[01:41] <pitti> seb128: bah, that libgphoto patch is really ugly...
[01:42] <ogra_> \sh, whats broken ? 
[01:42] <ogra_> i have no AltGr (Meta) since some days, but suspected a HW error...
[01:43] <\sh> ogra_: no...on franks sony the same
[01:43] <ogra_> oh
[01:43] <ogra_> yipppie... i dont need to buy a new keyboard...
[01:43] <\sh> strange that I have it still...so I think some xkb b0rkage
[01:43] <ogra_> \sh, all other keys wirk right ? 
[01:43] <\sh> but no error to see in the logfiles
[01:44] <ogra_> *work
[01:44] <\sh> ogra_: yes..even altgr is giving xkb events...but altgr+q or e or bla is not working
[01:44] <pitti> jdub: still here?
[01:44] <ogra_> yup and its very hard to ping you for me :)
[01:44] <ogra_> no backslash
[01:45] <pitti> seb128: should we change the CD player app of gnome-volume-manager from totem to sound-juicer now?
[01:45] <\sh> ogra_: and didn't change with the last xorg upload
[01:45] <pitti> seb128: jdub told me that this was the way to go, but I'm not sure wheter that counts as UI/documentation freeze break
[01:46] <zyga> seb128: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16536
[01:46] <zyga> :-)
[01:46] <\sh> ogra_: highlite should work as well on sh only ;)
[01:46] <ogra_> sh, yes ?
[01:46] <seb128> pitti: it's gnome-cd, not totem atm, right?
[01:47] <pitti> seb128: no, ATM it's totem
[01:47] <seb128> zyga: what's funny about this one? :p
[01:47] <pitti> seb128: jdub asked me to do that since gnome-cd is obsolete
[01:47] <seb128> pitti: oh, here it uses gnome-cd, probably a previous user config
[01:47] <pitti> seb128: totem is ugly for audio CDs, s-j is better, so I'd like to fix that
[01:47] <ogra_> \sh, btw, i think its rather a kernel prob, no altgr in console mode...
[01:47] <seb128> pitti: gnome-cd is no obsolete yet, probably for 2.14. Anyway I've not issue with totem or sound-juicer, pick whatever you prefer :)
[01:48] <seb128> pitti: let's use sj so
[01:48] <pitti> seb128: but I guess I should contact the doc guys; do you have a contact?
[01:48] <dholbach> is 9GB the minimum size of an installation? a user sent me this: http://ubuntu.gplan.info/9GB-minimum.JPG
[01:48] <\sh> ogra_: argl
[01:48] <zyga> seb128: I've just fixed it
[01:49] <zyga> seb128: it's trivial - you can apply it
[01:49] <seb128> pitti: ask on their chan or to jbailey maybe
[01:49] <\sh> ogra_: u know the bugzilla entry? ,-)
[01:49] <ogra_> sh, nope
[01:49] <seb128> zyga: I would say "it has no information about what the issue is and it works fine for me"
[01:49] <ogra_> as i said, i suspected my hardware
[01:49] <\sh> ogra_: crap
[01:49] <zyga> seb128: hmm :/
[01:49] <zyga> seb128: I'll attach a screenshot
[01:50] <seb128> zyga: the download manager has a "%" to the bar
[01:50] <ogra_> dholbach, that screen is absolutely correct...
[01:50] <seb128> ie:
[01:50] <seb128> %10     filename
[01:50] <seb128> ... ko of ... ko
[01:50] <zyga> seb128: then there is something strange
[01:50] <dholbach> ogra_: hm?
[01:51] <seb128> zyga: maybe your translator didn't respect the Comment|msg 
[01:51] <Kamion> dholbach: no
[01:51] <ogra_> dholbach, i guess he needs to play with his bios settings
[01:51] <zyga> seb128: no - I see the default message from gtk2
[01:51] <seb128> zyga: but since your bug has no information about the locale, version used, etc
[01:51] <zyga> I'm attaching the screenshot
[01:51] <Kamion> dholbach: that's the minimum possible size for *that partition*, not for an installation
[01:51] <seb128> zyga: yeah, maybe your translator have messed the GTK translation
[01:51] <\sh> elmo: please sync gcfilms_5.3-3 from debian unstable (universe that is) thx
[01:51] <ogra_> dholbach, has nothing to do with required space
[01:51] <zyga> seb128: no - that's the deafault untranslated message
[01:52] <seb128> put a screenshot
[01:52] <\sh> ogra_: I'll file one..but on which package?
[01:52] <dholbach> ogra_: that's what i thought
[01:52] <ogra_> \sh, hmm, kernel ? 
[01:52] <\sh> ogra_: kernel?
[01:52] <ogra_> (package linux)
[01:53] <zyga> seb128: attached
[01:53] <seb128> zyga: and another remark: don't change bugs to NEW yourself
[01:53] <seb128> there is no point to have UNCONFIRMED if the submitters change them to NEW themself
[01:54] <zyga> seb128: sorry I thought this is an obvious bug
[01:54] <seb128> #. do not translate the part before the |
[01:54] <seb128> msgid "progress bar label|%d %"
[01:54] <seb128> msgstr "progress bar label|%d %"
[01:54] <seb128> 
[01:54] <Kamion> dholbach: for example, if the partition already has 9GB of data in it, you can't resize it to be smaller that that
[01:54] <seb128> from the gtk pl.po file
[01:54] <seb128> zyga: translator messed the GTK translation as I said before
[01:55] <dholbach> Kamion: thank you
[01:55] <zyga> seb128: what do you see when you download a file?
[01:55] <seb128> zyga: %nn
[01:55] <zyga> seb128: it's strange that I see the default label and you see something proper
[01:55] <Kamion> dholbach: (that's the dialog you get when you attempt to resize a partition, not the one you get when you create a new one - there's no minimum size mentioned in the latter)
[01:55] <seb128> zyga: the fr.po has not the "progress bar label|"
[01:55] <seb128> zyga: read what I just copied on the chan
[01:55] <seb128> zyga: "#. do not translate the part before the |"
[01:56] <dholbach> Kamion: super, thanks - i'm just talking to him
[01:56] <seb128> zyga: and pl.po has "progress bar label|%d %"
[01:56] <zyga> ok
[01:56] <\sh> ogra_: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16539
[01:56] <seb128> zyga: they screw by putting "progress bar label|" with the translation
[01:56] <seb128> so you get that on your bar
[01:56] <zyga> seb128: I get it now
[01:56] <\sh> ogra_: please confirm ;)
[01:56] <mvo> pitti: I was looking at the main-inclusion problems for cdrdao. I noticed that when applying the O_EXCL patch cdrdao disable my eject button (without the patch that works fine). did you noticed a similar issue with cdrecord?
[01:57] <zyga> darn I didn't fix a bug then ... you've fixed it
[01:57] <seb128> lol
[01:57] <zyga> seb128: the source uses Q_ which maps to gettext_strip_helpers or something similar
[01:57] <zyga> seb128: I thought that prevents us from seeing stuff before "|"
[01:58] <doko> seb128: does fontconfig/gnome make font substitutions on it's own, if it doesn't find an appropriate font? I.e. Bitstream Vera Serif isn't available as oblique font in the font selection panel, but applications like abiword allow me to print it as italic ...
[01:58] <seb128> zyga: as the translator comment say, don't translate the part before |
[01:58] <seb128> zyga: it's here to give a context, ie: allow to 2 same strings to have different translations
[01:58] <zyga> seb128: yes I know 
[01:59] <zyga> seb128: I've got to get going now - I'll look at the po file when I get back
[01:59] <zyga> thanks
[01:59] <seb128> np
[01:59] <seb128> thank you for working on bugs :)
[01:59] <seb128> doko: not that I know of, but jamesh probably knows better about this
[02:16] <Riddell> seb128: can you move some more files to gstreamer-gtk? libstdautodetect, libgsttextoverlay and libgsttimeoverlay
[02:17] <Riddell> or I can move them
[02:17] <seb128> Riddell: let me ping the Debian maintainer first, we don't want to create any divergeance
[02:17] <seb128> what is the issue with those?
[02:17] <Riddell> gconf brings in gtk
[02:18] <seb128> $ ldd /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.8/libgsttimeoverlay.so | grep gconf
[02:18] <seb128> $
[02:18] <Riddell> textoverlays bring in pango
[02:18] <seb128> oh, k
[02:18] <Riddell> which brings in cairo
[02:18] <seb128> you need cairo anyway
[02:18] <seb128> there is a cairo plugin
[02:19] <seb128> can these changes wait after 5.10?
[02:19] <Riddell> ah, move gstcairo as well then
[02:19] <seb128> creating new package break the Depends
[02:19] <seb128> ie: we will have to review all the package that may need to put a Depends on -gtk due to the moves
[02:20] <Riddell> well -gtk already exists so that has to be done anyway
[02:21] <seb128> excepted that pixbuf is not really useful
[02:21] <seb128> but if we start moving a bunch of other stuff that's an another matter
[02:21] <seb128> ie: the overlay stuff are useful
[02:23] <Riddell> there arn't many rdepends on gstreamer0.8-misc
[02:23] <seb128> right, but that's still some work
[02:23] <seb128> lemme me ping the Debian maintainer first
[02:23] <seb128> maybe he'll want to do a -gconf
[02:23] <seb128> and a -pango
[02:25] <pitti> mvo: no, that worked fine
[02:25] <pitti> mvo: that's odd, why should that have any effect on the eject button? I don't see the connection
[02:26] <mvo> pitti: yes, it's odd. but I see this effect  here in the "cdrdao copy" case with the O_EXCL patch
[02:26] <mvo> (and not without it)
[02:26] <pitti> mvo: the effect is that eject does not work *after* cdrdao is finished?
[02:27] <mvo> pitti: "cdrdao copy" first reads the source, then ask for a medium swap. eject (on the cdrom) will not work with the patch anymore (but does without)
[02:27] <pitti> mvo: weeeird - does it really close the device properly?
[02:28] <pitti> mvo: and why it doesn't call eject in the first place?
[02:28] <mvo> pitti: no idea :)
[02:28] <pitti> mvo: it would be nice, then the user does not have to do it manually
[02:28] <Treenaks> Kamion: from linux, or do you have a windows machine to create them with? :)
[02:29] <Treenaks> Kamion: I know a few interesting ways to break FAT fs's from Windows :)
[02:29] <pitti> Treenaks: hexedit?
[02:30] <Treenaks> pitti: well, that too
[02:30] <Treenaks> pitti: but (write 100 small files; delete 25-50 and 75-100; then write one big file (which will be fragmented)
[02:31] <Treenaks> pitti: then delete all files and turn off the PC while it's still writing :)
[02:31] <Treenaks> pitti: voila, broken FAT
[02:31] <pitti> lol
[02:31] <Kamion> Treenaks: 'echo A | dd of=<device> bs=1 seek=510' does the job nicely
[02:31] <Kamion> parted ain't gonna open that
[02:31] <Treenaks> Kamion: :)
[02:33] <seb128> carlos: why does rosetta list evolution-2.2 for evolution?
[02:36] <Kamion> oh, except then it doesn't even recognise it as fat32. whoops.
[02:38] <Treenaks> Kamion: try "bitrot" (Wichert made a tool for that once)
[02:40] <Kamion> too awkward, I only have the installer here so far. I'll mangle the info sector instead.
[02:41] <Kamion> (and no, I can't do a full install because that would perturb the test too much ...)
[02:41] <fabbione> daniels: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/debian-from-70-to-71.diff <-
[02:41] <fabbione> daniels: i am finished for today on X
[02:41] <fabbione> Kamion: if you plan to make new CD's can you please be sure to include X -71 ?
[02:42] <spayne> mdz: ping
[02:43] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm not doing any special releases today
[02:43] <Kamion> I need to hide in a box and fix bugs
[02:43] <fabbione> Kamion: kthx :)
[02:49] <mvo> pitti: what else needs to be done for cdrdao beside debian #272646 and malone #1528?
[02:54] <dholbach> i'm out for lunch
[02:54] <dholbach> see you
[02:59] <lamont-away> elmo: you might try anastasia w/hppa sometime in a couple hours and see what it looks like.   /me will be offline, but it has the potential to be fairly clean
[02:59] <lamont-away> (totem is building shortly, and will free up more of the ubuntu-desktop blockers)
[03:00] <eruin> I hope this is the right spot... In what cases would /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/ be empty for a laptop?
[03:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: do you keep tracking this users-admin/amd64 issue?
[03:12] <doko> seb128: where are the default fonts for gnome configured?
[03:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'm banging my head against it just now.
[03:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: it just doesn't make sense, the stack state is corrupted _somewhere_
[03:13] <seb128> doko: gconf /desktop/gnome/interface/font_name
[03:13] <seb128> Mithrandir: yeah, nasty bug ... let me know if you figure something
[03:13] <seb128> doko: /desktop/gnome/interface/monospace_font_name and /desktop/gnome/interface/document_font_name too
[03:14] <Mithrandir> seb128: so far I've come to "glibc is buggy and stomps on memory which it shouldn't", but that's not this bug.
[03:14] <seb128> probably not :)
[03:15] <doko> seb128: yes, but these are alias names
[03:16] <seb128> doko: fc-match <font>
[03:16] <seb128> doko: what are you trying to figure?
[03:19] <pitti> mvo: no "else"; if the two things in the inclusion report are fixed and the package generally works, that's fine
[03:19] <doko> seb128: which font (from which package) is actually used as the default font for Serif/Sans/...
[03:20] <sladen> doko: vera I think now
[03:20] <mvo> pitti: thanks, just uploaded the new version with the fixes
[03:20] <mvo> pitti: should I note that in the wiki page?
[03:20] <pitti> mvo: would be nice, yes
[03:20] <ogra_> doko, do you read -devel ?
[03:20] <seb128> doko: 
[03:20] <seb128> $ fc-match Serif
[03:20] <seb128> VeraSe.ttf: "Bitstream Vera Serif" "Roman"
[03:20] <seb128> $ dpkg -S VeraSe.ttf
[03:20] <seb128> ttf-bitstream-vera
[03:21] <ogra_> doko, the matching for Helvetica Verdana etc is broken
[03:21] <ogra_> (at least for display fonts, not for print fonts though)
[03:22] <doko> seb128: I want to make the DejaVu fonts the default, these are Bitstream fonts, but with Oblique Serif fonts available, and more eastern european characters
[03:22] <daniels> xprint is the way of the future
[03:23] <seb128> doko: I guess you have to change /etc/fonts/fonts.conf
[03:23] <ogra_> daniels, that doesnt use fontconfig ?
[03:23] <daniels> seb128: fonts.local, surely
[03:23] <daniels> ogra_: HEAVY HEAVY SARCASM
[03:23] <daniels> seb128: or local.conf, maybe
[03:23] <ogra_> err, oh, sorry :)
[03:23] <seb128> daniels: ups, correct
[03:27] <doko> ogra_: ???
[03:28] <ogra_> why the heck does evo crash for me twice a day ....GRRR
[03:28] <doko> daniels: heh, I'll wait until you did modularize the fonts, i.e. glyphs per package ... ;-P
[03:28] <tseng> doko: bitstream-vera-sans-mono-latin-a
[03:28] <ogra_> doko, see the thread about firefix default fonts... fontconfig has a strage fontmapping for some fonts
[03:33] <doko> ogra_: hmm, when does get fonts.conf updated?
[03:33] <doko> $ ls -l /etc/fonts/fonts.conf
[03:33] <doko> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 12727 May  4 16:13 /etc/fonts/fonts.conf
[03:34] <ogra_> i think in postinst of fontconfig and probably in postinst of every new font you install afterwards
[03:34] <doko> ogra_: no, install ttf-dejava, and nothing happens ...
[03:37] <jbailey> Riddell: ping?
[03:38] <bddebian> Good morning
[03:38] <sivang> Good morning bddebian 
[03:39] <bddebian> Heya sivang
[03:40] <Kamion> 01:07 < bddebian> Kamion: Are you working through Malone?
[03:41] <Kamion> bddebian: I was just doing a pass over it looking for misfiled installer bugs
[03:41] <Kamion> and a few other ones I noticed and care about
[03:41] <bddebian> Kamion: NP, I just had one open and it closed right in the middle of me checking it.. ;-)
[03:42] <Kamion> which?
[03:42] <bddebian> I don't remember, the number, it was some dumb one :-)
[03:43] <Kamion> oh, #990 probably
[03:44] <Riddell> jbailey: hi
[03:45] <Kamion> annoyingly, operating on universe bugs causes Malone to send a mail to a moderated mailman list which then says "your mail has been held for moderation" or some similar noise
[03:45] <Kamion> the list should be configured to let through mail from Malone without that message
[03:45] <Treenaks> Kamion: they changed the MAIL FROM:<> stuff (which now breaks RFC 2821), that's what's causing breakage ( afaik )
[03:46] <bddebian> Riddell!!
[03:46] <bddebian> Kamion: Aye, that was pissing me off last night :-)
[03:47] <bddebian> Riddell: Do we not have kdebindings?
[03:47] <Riddell> bddebian: we do
[03:47] <pitti> daniels: do you have any idea how an userspace program could test whether its $DISPLAY is currently "active", i. e. the current console?
[03:48] <seb128> bddebian: could you stop breaking the string freeze by changing desktop files? That breaks every single translation for the strings you change
[03:49] <pitti> elmo, Znarl: can I please have the blender build-deps in concordia/breezy?
[03:49] <Znarl> pitti : Can you create a RT request?
[03:49] <bddebian> String freeze?
[03:49] <Kamion> bddebian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[03:49] <pitti> Znarl: we really need RT requests for that?
[03:50] <pitti> Znarl: ok, I'll do that
[03:50] <Znarl> pitti : It's helpful for us to keep track of changes.
[03:52] <pitti> Znarl: sent
[03:52] <Znarl> Thanks.
[03:53] <bddebian> seb128: Oh, sorry, I didn't know about that one.  Is that Universe too?
[03:53] <seb128> bddebian: dunno if there is a freeze but you just broken translations and desktop files are not a part of language packs, so you screw everything != english for 5.10 by doing this
[03:54] <bddebian> :-(
[03:54] <seb128> no big deal, but consider that before changing string :)
[03:54] <seb128> HIG stuff can wait for after 5.10
[03:54] <tseng> bddebian: dude yes please
[03:55] <tseng> bddebian: i was not thrilled by the string change either.
[03:55] <bddebian> tseng: ??
[03:55] <tseng> bddebian: (blam?)
[03:56] <bddebian> tseng: You mean a string change there too?
[03:56] <tseng> bddebian: you changed the .desktop file
[03:56] <bddebian> Yes
[03:57] <tseng> did you change all the translations too?
[03:57] <bddebian> I wanted to but I don't know all the charactersets
[03:57] <seb128> tseng: he probably just didn't not he was breaking them
[03:58] <seb128> s/not/note/
[03:58] <tseng> seb128: i know, he meant to fix a "bug"
[03:58] <seb128> let's just stop changing strings for 5.10 now
[03:58] <seb128> so everybody is happy :)
[03:58] <tseng> yes :)
[03:58] <bddebian> seb128 / tseng: Would that include adding new .desktop files?
[03:59] <tseng> bddebian: no
[03:59] <tseng> not imo
[03:59] <seb128> bddebian: nop, you don't break translations for non-translated stuff
[04:00] <tseng> changing the strings in all my desktop files also creates more delta to debian for something i dont agree with in the first place
[04:00] <seb128> though I'm not sure of that's uglier to not have the menu entry or to have an english one :)
[04:00] <lifeless> oh
[04:00] <lifeless> I just remembered 
[04:00] <lifeless> has anyone noticed that hibernate has the same hot key as 'help' in the logout dialog ?
[04:01] <bddebian> Ugh
[04:02] <tseng> just not changing strings would be fine :P
[04:04] <bddebian> tseng: I seem to fuck up something or other no matter what I try to "fix"
[04:04] <bddebian> Not to mention getting bitched at for trying to clean up the archive
[04:07] <\sh> bddebian: hey...this is life ;) I'm getting bitched as well at my company here when I fix something ;-) 
[04:13] <Kamion> elmo: any chance that you could make cron.sync keep around the minimal and standard files for each project/suite/arch triplet? it would make ~cjwatson/jessica easier to drive if it could pick out those files for each arch
[04:14] <elmo> root=/dev/mapper/Ubuntu-root
[04:14] <elmo> ^-- who's responsible for us requiring that in grub config?
[04:15] <seb128> bddebian: don't get it wrong, your efforts are appreciated! I'm just pointing the translation issue because it may be non obvious. Keep the good work :)
[04:17] <sivang> bddebian: don't quit trying! You only know if seb128 appriciates you enough, is when he critisises something you do, trust me ;-p
[04:17] <Kamion> elmo: at what stage does it fail if you use some other syntax?
[04:17] <elmo> Kamion: some other syntax?
[04:18] <pitti> Znarl: thanks
[04:18] <mvo> Kamion: what usplash version is on the current daily i386 install?
[04:19] <Kamion> elmo: I assumed you were talking about requiring /dev/mapper/Ubuntu-root as opposed to some other syntax for LVM devices, like /dev/Ubuntu/root
[04:19] <Kamion> mvo: see the .list file next to the .iso
[04:19] <elmo> Kamion: well, no, my problem is that root= line is hardcoded into the grub config, as kopt= variable
[04:19] <elmo> Kamion: so when you switch ti a non-stock kernel, you get screwed by it
[04:19] <sivang> Kamion: what is Jessica's role in life?
[04:19] <Kamion> er, it's only hardcoded that way if you install on LVM
[04:19] <elmo> which is a regression, compared to hoary and earlier
[04:20] <Kamion> unless something extremely weird has happened
[04:20] <Kamion> sivang: # Synchronise package priorities with germinate output
[04:20] <Mithrandir> seb128: I see some silent stack breakage, but it's more or less impossible to valgrind due to too much noise from libc and glib/gtk. :-/
[04:20] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[04:20] <elmo> Kamion: oh - it's an LVM thing, sorry I thought it was generic
[04:20] <elmo> Kamion: is that required to boot off LVM?
[04:21] <Kamion> elmo: well, you need *some* root= parameter AFAIK. What were you using before?
[04:21] <elmo> Kamion: this is a new breezy 'server' install; I've never run a custom kernel on it before :)
[04:21] <Kamion> ah, you haven't done LVM-root on hoary?
[04:21] <elmo> certainly without LVM, we normally don't have a root at all, I'd forgotten this one had been LVMed
[04:21] <elmo> nope
[04:22] <Kamion> ok, I guess either you need to put the LVM modules in your initramfs or compile them in monolithically, then; I've never done LVM-root with a non-stock kernel
[04:23] <Kamion> because I was in the discussion that established what to move to standard ;)
[04:23] <ogra_> heh
[04:23] <mvo> Kamion: heh :) 
[04:23] <seb128> Mithrandir: not cool :/
[04:23] <ogra_> Kamion, you are soo nostalgic sometimes :)
[04:24] <Kamion> mvo: oh, and at the time, dpkg still pre-depended on dselect
[04:24] <Kamion> ogra_: screw nostalgia, I use it and can't stand the alternatives
[04:24] <Kamion> we can probably move it further out in dapper, though
[04:25] <dredg> elmo: can i request a sync of mlmmj from debian please? it fixes some basic things that are broken in the current package
[04:27] <jbailey> Mithrandir: P'haps he's just waiting for one of us to root them for him?
[04:29] <elmo> dredg: done
[04:29] <dredg> elmo: cheers
[04:29] <Kamion> Packages to change from priority important to optional
[04:29] <Kamion> ------------------------------------------------------
[04:29] <Kamion> cramfsprogs
[04:29] <Kamion> dash
[04:29] <Kamion> initrd-tools
[04:29] <Kamion> d'oh, I probably should've done that a while back ...
[04:30] <ogra_> does that matter for universe packages ?
[04:30] <elmo> Kamion: done, but I guess you already know
[04:30] <Kamion> elmo: BTW did you ever get round to looking at my alicia patch to make it actually work?
[04:30] <elmo> ogra_: yes, it matters
[04:30] <ogra_> oh
[04:30] <Kamion> elmo: done which?
[04:30] <elmo> copies of minimal + standard
[04:31] <Kamion> ogra_: cramfsprogs and dash are not in universe, even though initrd-tools is
[04:31] <Kamion> ogra_: so they were being needlessly installed on netboot installs
[04:31] <Kamion> elmo: oh, right, cool, thanks
[04:31] <ogra_> double oh...
[04:33] <ogra_> seems they were not *this* important for the users
[04:34] <pitti> ogra_: not that the official backports of firefox were much saner :-) (SCNR)
[04:34] <magnon> seems that most of the users are bleeding edge ;)
[04:34] <ogra_> pitti, lol
[04:34] <ogra_> pitti, but there you can blame Mez directly....
[04:35] <pitti> well, it was just bad luck...
[04:35] <magnon> pitti: btw, my powerbook has strange bugs. sound doesn't work, event devices are gone... checked with another powerbook, same modules loaded and all seems to be the same
[04:35] <ogra_> pitti, nope
[04:35] <pitti> magnon: sounds like the udev bug we recently had...
[04:35] <magnon> so, pbbuttonsd doesn't have anything to count with, so when it's on my screen goes off every 10 mins :P
[04:35] <magnon> yeah, I haven't updated in a little while
[04:35] <Kamion> elmo: excellent, I have 'jessica -a amd64' etc. working now
[04:35] <ogra_> pitti, i opposed making him MOTU before he wouldnt be able to make empty packages, remember ?exactly for this purpose
[04:35] <pitti> magnon: please upgrade to the latest Breezy and try again
[04:36] <magnon> in the process atm :)
[04:36] <Kamion> elmo: is there anything I should do with the "Packages to change from priority source to optional" list? I'm guessing that any binary packages with priority source are a mistake
[04:36] <magnon> oh great, xserver updates :P
[04:36] <elmo> yeah
[04:36] <elmo> they should just be made optional
[04:37] <magnon> pitti: will just upgrading udev be sufficient to test?
[04:37] <elmo> kamion: and no, sorry I haven't had a look at alicia, feel free to apply the patch on jackass, if it's blocking you
[04:37] <Kamion> elmo: certainly not blocking, I just have a local copy of the script with the patch
[04:37] <pitti> magnon: well, you need to reboot afterwards, but udev is the only package that caused that, yes
[04:37] <magnon> of course
[04:38] <pitti> magnon: without rebooting you can just try "sudo udevstart"
[04:38] <pitti> magnon: (even with the old package)
[04:38] <Kamion> was more in case it was useful for making microchanges to stuff like udeb priorities in Debian
[04:39] <Kamion> although, hmm, I guess those must work if alicia works for .debs in Debian
[04:39] <magnon> pitti: gorgeous, that trigged the pbbuttonsd bug ;)
[04:39] <pitti> magnon: 100% CPU? 
[04:39] <magnon> yup
[04:40] <pitti> magnon: did you upgrade pbbuttonsd as well? to 0.7.1?
[04:40] <magnon> I believe I did and then told you it didn't help
[04:40] <magnon> the newest Debian package works though
[04:40] <elmo> Kamion: our override situation is much more messy/complex than debian's
[04:40] <Kamion> jbailey: were you going to fix binutils-static to have its own doc directory and stop depending on binutils, or shall I do that?
[04:41] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, I couldn't quite work out why there seemed to be two of everything
[04:41] <Kamion> (which was why alicia hated life)
[04:41] <jbailey> Kamion: I can.  Sorry, forgot about it.  doing
[04:41] <Kamion> jbailey: cool, thanks
[04:41] <Tm_T> what's wrong with xorg, in X any kb key just changes resolution
[04:41] <Tm_T> known problem?
[04:41] <magnon> pitti: I'll test more later. have to go
[04:42] <Kamion> jbailey: (that'll be 6MB less in a base install)
[04:42] <pitti> magnon: then ours will work as well, I mergd recently
[04:42] <magnon> good
[04:48] <mvo> Kamion: usplash on the current daily isn't run in stage2. is that known?
[04:48] <pitti> carlos: I looked at blender for a while; it uses a highly nonstandard gettext system, hard to create a POT file
[04:48] <pitti> carlos: and the PO files do not even have a header
[04:48] <Kamion> mvo: broken due to the recently-introduced alternatives bug that jbailey fixed today, I imagine
[04:49] <pitti> carlos: well, at least some of them don't
[04:49] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[04:50] <jbailey> Kamion: Was that my "Hey, .so files don't go in /usr/share" thinko? =)
[04:50] <Kamion> jbailey: yeah
[04:51] <Kamion> I imagine that'll have caused usplash not to display anything ...
[04:51] <jbailey> Yes, quite probably.
[04:51] <Kamion> I note, incidentally, that Edubuntu installs are going to show the Ubuntu usplash image on the first reboot and the Edubuntu usplash image on the second and subsequent reboots
[04:51] <jbailey> IT would've been a dangling symlink, and usplash would bail on the missing fail.
[04:52] <Kamion> since edubuntu-artwork depends on too much graphical stuff to install it in the first stage
[04:52] <Kamion> jbailey: BTW, surely /usr/anything isn't a great place for the usplash image
[04:52] <Kamion> I'd've thought /lib/usplash/...
[04:52] <carlos> pitti, hmm, I will take a look
[04:53] <jbailey> Kamion: It just gets stuffed into the initrd.  I couldn't see the point of cluttering up the root filesystem with something that we only load before that point anyway.
[04:53] <pitti> carlos: I can probably generate a POT file with *all* strings, but that would be way too much
[04:53] <Kamion> jbailey: oh, I see, good point
[04:53] <carlos> with all strings?
[04:53] <pitti> carlos: I look in their CVS and on their webpage to find out how they generate their POTs
[04:53] <Kamion> sorry, forgot it was initramfs'd now
[04:53] <Riddell> Kamion: isn't it just edubuntu-artwork-usplash that's needed?  and that shouldn't depend on much
[04:53] <pitti> carlos: they don't use a wrapper method like _(), at least not consistently
[04:54] <carlos> but I suppose they have a script that extracts the strings, right?
[04:54] <Kamion> Riddell: oh, I hadn't realised it was a separate package now; that makes sense
[04:54] <tepsipakki> kamion: is there any way to tell partman to use fixed partition sizes in a recipe?
[04:54] <mvo> Kamion: I was wondering if my usplash change (0.1-11) fixed the installer console-font switching also (in stage2). so I guess I need to re-test that tomorrow
[04:55] <Kamion> tepsipakki: use equal minimal/maximal sizes, and probably equal priority to both?
[04:55] <Kamion> so '104857600 104857600 104857600' for a fixed 100MB partition
[04:55] <tepsipakki> kamion: thanks, I'll try. I haven't tried this for a while
[04:56] <Kamion> tepsipakki: that's what kickseed does if you ask for a fixed size, anyway
[04:58] <wasabi_> Is it just me or is the evo exchange backend totally broken in breezy?
[05:01] <pitti> carlos: ugly, I mail the blender guys
[05:01] <jbailey> wasabi_: I've had some failure and some success reports.
[05:01] <jbailey> wasabi_: What problem are you having?
[05:01] <wasabi_> Well, the configuration tab doesn't list any useful config options
[05:01] <wasabi_> Just Username.
[05:01] <wasabi_> No where can I even insert the name of the server to use.
[05:02] <carlos> pitti, ok, thanks. Please, keep me inside the loop
[05:02] <jbailey> Eh?
[05:02] <jbailey> I'll look at that in an hour or so.
[05:02] <tepsipakki> whoa, the usplash-logo made it in the netboot-image, nice ;)
[05:03] <Kamion> oh, yeah, did that last week
[05:03] <wasabi_> jbailey, so what did you think about my unionfs idea?
[05:03] <wasabi_> To just build it in.
[05:03] <jbailey> wasabi_: mdz was working on something like that earlier and getting kernel crashes.
[05:03] <wasabi_> Aww. =(
[05:03] <jbailey> I didn't follow it in detail, so I don't know.
[05:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'm banging my head against some valgrind failures which doesn't make any kind of sense, so I'm going home to see if that helps.
[05:06] <segfault> does edubuntu's client kernel has usplash?
[05:07] <ogra_> segfault, jbailey told me its in since today (untested yet)
[05:07] <ogra_> s/ts/the opportunity
[05:08] <seb128> Mithrandir: k
[05:08] <segfault> nice
[05:21] <tepsipakki> kamion: does not work. I used "512 512 512" for root, and I get 466MB
[05:24] <Kamion> tepsipakki: it's possible it's not exact depending on priorities of other partitions; you'll have to read the recipe documentation
[05:25] <Kamion> segfault: usplash is in the initramfs, not the kernel, fyi
[05:25] <tepsipakki> is it available online somewhere?
[05:25] <tepsipakki> or do I need to make a cvs-pull first?
[05:25] <sladen> tepsipakki: is that with the 10% of disk-space reserved for root.   466 * 1.1 is exactly 512
[05:27] <tepsipakki> sladen: root doesn't use percentages, swap does
[05:27] <tepsipakki> ..hmm, you _really_ can shoot yourself in the foot with priorities ("No root file system is defined")
[05:27] <sladen> tepsipakki: root as in the 10% of diskspace that is reserved for the root *user*.  (eg. if you do df -h)
[05:27] <tepsipakki> ;)
[05:28] <Kamion> tepsipakki: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/trunk/installer/doc/devel/partman-auto-recipe.txt?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
[05:28] <tepsipakki> oh... f*ck
[05:28] <tepsipakki> is 10% the default?
[05:28] <bddebian> Anyone have any thoughts on morgueing ghc-cvs??
[05:28] <Kamion> I thought the default was 5%
[05:28] <tepsipakki> I've seen that too
[05:28] <tepsipakki> kamion: thanks for the link
[05:28] <ogra_> the default is 5%
[05:29] <Kamion> it's tunable in d-i though
[05:29] <ogra_> except sladen secretly tweaked that ;)
[05:30] <Kamion> but indeed, the default in partman is 5% too
[05:30] <Kamion> at least for ext2/ext3, haven't checked others
[05:31] <Yagisa1> G'day - doing a test install of breezy in vmware - and running into a partitioning error http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/breezy-no-lvm-on-raid.png
[05:32] <Kamion> Yagisa1: I can't get to that site from here; traceroute stops at syd-pow-ibo-are-5-ge-0-1.tpgi.com.au
[05:35] <StR> Hi all!
[05:35] <bddebian> Hello StR
[05:35] <StR> why did you choose to use php5 in breezy?
[05:36] <StR> it's not a god idea...
[05:36] <StR> there is no pear package for php5
[05:39] <tepsipakki> guys, it was df lying to me all along. cfdisk shows that the sizes are correct, and the small differences are due to partman rounding to the cylinder size, so all is well ;)
[05:39] <dholbach> sto: what about php-pear?
[05:39] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, I think I've come up with a way to get correct deb-src lines for ports, although it's pretty ugly
[05:39] <dholbach> StR: php-pear
[05:39] <dholbach> sto: sorry
[05:40] <Kamion> tepsipakki: cool
[05:40] <elmo> Kamion: blink?
[05:40] <jbailey> StR: Why is it not a good idea?  Isn't it the recommended version by upstream now?
[05:41] <elmo> the correct deb-src line for ports is a.u.c surely?
[05:41] <jbailey> Kamion: \o/
[05:41] <Kamion> elmo: quite so
[05:41] <jbailey> elmo: Right, but it was just manging the ports.u.c =)
[05:41] <Kamion> elmo: but base-config didn't know that
[05:41] <StR> jbailey: because there is no php5-pear  package
[05:41] <dholbach> StR: php-pear is it
[05:42] <StR> dholbach: really? it works for php5?
[05:42] <Kamion> elmo: (and until about five minutes ago, base-config didn't support differing binary/source sites at all)
[05:42] <dholbach> StR: http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/web/php-pear
[05:42] <Kamion> StR: it's built from the php5 source, so I kind of imagine so
[05:42] <dholbach> StR: you should have a better look before you claim there was none :)
[05:42] <StR> i will try it.. thanks
[05:43] <dholbach> super
[05:44] <elmo> Kamion: can you think of anything beyond BLK_DEV_DM that I'd need to compile in to have LVM-root working?
[05:46] <pitti> jordi: good news - see #15541 :-)
[05:48] <sivang> elmo: fixing #15017 ?
[05:48] <Kamion> elmo: I think that should be enough
[05:49] <elmo> sivang: no
[05:52] <mvo> pitti: mind if I upload alsa-utils to fix set-default-soundcard (#16087)? the problem is that system utils should use #!/usr/bin/python2.4 explicitily 
[05:55] <jbailey> I have this urge to apply a serious amount of debhelper to binutils
[06:00] <unu> janimo: hello
[06:02] <Kamion> Ryan Troy just /msged me to say that he's set up spam filtering on the forums, which should help with ubuntu-devel@ noise
[06:02] <mdz> morning
[06:02] <Nafallo> Kamion: great news.
[06:02] <Nafallo> morning mdz :-)
[06:02] <mvo> morning mdz 
[06:03] <ogra_> morning md
[06:03] <ogra_> z
[06:04] <ogra_> Kamion, you mean ubuntu-users ? 
[06:04] <ogra_> (he wanted to shut down the -devel gw)
[06:06] <bddebian> Heya mdz
[06:13] <Kamion> ogra_: no, I mean -devel; he wanted to re-enable the -devel gateway once spam filtering was sorted out (which I'm not sure I agree with, but hey)
[06:13] <Kamion> I want to do other things rather than getting into all that, if possible
[06:14] <ogra_> heh...
[06:14] <ogra_> at least its a small improvement
[06:14] <ogra_> (but not the promised change :/)
[06:16] <Kamion> feel free to talk with him about it
[06:16] <Nafallo> ogra_: I agree with you fwiw.
[06:16] <ogra_> Kamion, i'll do, if i tamed xscreensaver ;)
[06:20] <pitti> mvo: (sorry, was away for a bit) of course, if it is necessary, go ahead
[06:21] <mvo> pitti: `anthony suggested it and he should know :)
[06:21] <Kamion> mvo: what's the rationale for using python2.4 explicitly? just curious
[06:22] <mvo> Kamion: he said that importend system software should use it explicitly to make sure it always works. he has a bunch of other python2.4 version installed in /usr/local and this /usr/bin/env thing broke update-manager for him (and some other tools)
[06:22] <pitti> mvo: but s-d-s should work fine with 2.1, and we don't support other versions
[06:23] <mvo> pitti: it's more about /usr/bin/python vs. /usr/bin/env python I think
[06:23] <dilinger> Kamion: when you have a sec, i've got some ssh auth change questions on #d-d
[06:23] <mvo> pitti: but yeah, s-d-s is so simple that it really shouldn't matter ...
[06:23] <jordi> pitti: #15541 doesn't exist?
[06:23] <pitti> mvo: well, I'd be fine with /usr/bin/python
[06:24] <pitti> jordi: erm, it does
[06:24] <pitti> mvo: right, #!/usr/bin/python should be good enough
[06:24] <pitti> mvo: an explicit version is too ugly IMHO
[06:25] <mvo> pitti: yes, I think so
[06:25] <mvo> pitti: *agreed*
[06:25] <elmo> Kamion: /dev/mapper/ foo is like, a static device right?
[06:26] <elmo> (and what's with the ini-caps?)
[06:26] <pitti> elmo: not sure what you mean, but encrypted USB sticks use it, too
[06:28] <elmo> pitti: I'm trying to boot a root-LVM system, and it's dieing with a custom kernel, even tho I've got DM enabled, trying to work out why
[06:29] <pitti> elmo: ah, yes, a /dev/mapper/foo is a normal block device
[06:29] <pitti> elmo: (I thought you mean that it is not dynamic, like with removable devices), sorry for disturbing
[06:29] <jordi> pitti: malone?
[06:29] <jordi> pitti: oh, ok.
[06:30] <pitti> jordi: no, bz https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15541
[06:30] <pitti> jordi: belocs locales are on their way :-)
[06:30] <pitti> jordi: while I have you here: we don't have any Asturian translations in our packages, so with which data am I supposed to create a language pack?
[06:31] <elmo> 1/go Znarl 
[06:32] <mdz> pitti: which packages in main depend on libsdl?
[06:33] <mdz> elmo: are you using mkinitramfs with your custom kernel?
[06:33] <jordi> pitti: excellent :)
[06:33] <elmo> mdz: no, it's monolithic
[06:33] <mdz> elmo: you need the userspace activation
[06:33] <jordi> pitti: I guess there are none yet.
[06:33] <jordi> Hopefully they'll do something in the next months.
[06:33] <ogra_> mdz, tuxpaint uses sdl-ttf
[06:34] <mdz> device-mapper just manages the block device; you need the userland tool to actually look at your disks to scan for volumes and set up the tables
[06:34] <elmo> mdz: this is failing in mounting the root FS?
[06:34] <mdz> elmo: yep
[06:34] <elmo> how can userland stuff be relevant before it's even mounted the root FS?
[06:34] <mdz> elmo: "/dev/mapper/blah" is meangless to the kernel
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: quite a bunch: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/wkHwdu80.html
[06:35] <ogra_> mdz, the other tux* tools use libsdl-image
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: oops, that was too much, sorry
[06:35] <mdz> elmo: you need to run the userland initialization to set up a volume in the kernel before it can be mounted, whether it's root or not
[06:36] <mdz> ogra_: tuxpaint isn't in main
[06:36] <elmo> mdz: sorry I'm horriibly confused, are you telling me, the way our LVM root works is by running userland tools in the ramdisk or something?
[06:36] <elmo> and is that the only way to do LVM-on-root?
[06:36] <mdz> elmo: I am telling you that that is the *only* way that lvm2 has *ever* worked
[06:36] <ogra_> mdz, waiting on anastacia since some weeks
[06:36] <ogra_> mdz, *type and *math are
[06:37] <mdz> elmo: initrd/initramfs is required
[06:37] <elmo> #$T^#$^!!S%T
[06:37] <Keybuk> elmo: dude, embrace early userspace, it is your friend
[06:37] <mdz> ogra_: it did not even appear in anastacia until about a week ago
[06:37] <Keybuk> initrd sucked, initramfs is sweet
[06:37] <elmo> Keybuk: only by stockholm syndrome
[06:37] <bddebian> Heya \sh
[06:37] <jdub> embrace distribution kernels, they are also your friend :-)
[06:37] <mdz> ogra_: and it is not listed at the top of the wiki page yet
[06:38] <\sh> re bddebian 
[06:39] <ogra_> mdz, * tuxpaint: MainInclusionReportTuxpaint (Edubuntu, cannot be promoted until sdl-image1.2 is in main)
[06:39] <pitti> mdz: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/KcCkGi55.html
[06:39] <mdz> elmo: you are making it hard; if you just install the packaged kernel it should boot out of the box with lvm on root
[06:40] <ogra_> mdz, sdl-image1.2 is approved and listed under promoted
[06:40] <ogra_> GAH
[06:40] <ogra_> blind me
[06:40] <ogra_> sorry
[06:40] <elmo> mdz: yeah yeah
[06:40] <mdz> ogra_: yes, and tuxpaint is under "needs work"
[06:41] <mdz> things get promoted when they reach the top of the page
[06:41] <ogra_> mdz, from tuxpaints review page: MartinPitt: approved; sdl-ttf2.0 looks fine, too.
[06:41] <ogra_> i didnt make an extra report ... do you need one ? 
[06:43] <ogra_> and i have no idea why -stamps is where it is, its approved too
[06:43] <mdz> ogra_: I don't promote packages which are marked as needing work.  when a package _and_ all of its dependencies are in anastacia and ready to promote, they should all be moved to the top section
[06:43] <Kamion> the person looking for inclusion needs to take responsibility for moving it up the page when problems are resolved; archive admins aren't generally going to go out looking for stuff
[06:44] <ogra_> mdz, ok, moving it... do you need a separate report for sdl-ttf2.0 to fullfil the formals ? or is the mentioning from pitti in the tuxpaint approval enough
[06:45] <mdz> Riddell: so python-qt and python-kde3 were in main before, you say? why were they demoted?
[06:46] <mdz> ogra_: there is a page for a report, but it is empty and not linked to the queue: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLibSdlTtf
[06:46] <mdz> it says the package is already in main, which it is not
[06:47] <Riddell> mdz: they used to be a build-dep for hpij
[06:48] <mdz> Riddell: python-qt3 was in main for hoary
[06:48] <mdz> Riddell: python-kde3 I don't think was in main
[06:48] <ogra_> hmm, very weird...
[06:49] <Riddell> mdz: qscintilla wasn't either I think
[06:49] <Riddell> I'll write main reports for them
[06:49] <ogra_> mdz, i'm pretty sure it was at aug 15th
[06:51] <mdz> libcdio uses dpkg-awk for this: ./debian/rules:LIBCDEV=$(shell dpkg-awk 'Provides:libc-dev' -- Package | sed -ne 's/^Package:[[:space:] ] *//p' | head -1) | libc-dev
[06:51] <mdz> is that really worth bringing dpkg-awk into main?
[06:51] <mdz> it seems unlikely to be actively maintained
[06:52] <mdz> Depends: libcdio3 (= ${Source-Version}), ${libcdev}
[06:52] <sivang> mdz: is that a common way to do variable substitution ?
[06:53] <mdz> sivang: is what?
[06:53] <mdz> using dpkg-gencontrol? yes
[06:53] <elmo> or he could just do libc6-dev | libc-dev like everyone else
[06:53] <sivang> mdz: no, the dpkg-awk thing you just mentioned
[06:53] <sivang> re: libcdio
[06:53] <Kamion> sivang: no, it's not
[06:54] <mdz> no, it's pretty awful actually
[06:54] <Kamion> the modern tool would be something from grep-dctrl, but that's still nasty and "don't do it"
[06:55] <sivang> so why do people do stuff like that? :)
[06:55] <elmo> because they're unique and special snowflakes
[06:58] <sivang> elmo: LOL^2
[06:59] <bddebian> elmo: Have a thought about morgueing ghc-cvs?
[06:59] <hughsie> desrt: you get my email on hal development list, or shall I cc you directly?
[07:00] <mdz> pitti: I'm a bit wary of the libsdl alsa change
[07:00] <mdz> pitti: it has a huge reverse dependency chain
[07:01] <pitti> mdz: I know your feeling, me too; it's just that -oss does not work at all in Gnome
[07:01] <pitti> mdz: it's not hard to install OTOH, so at least we should promote -alsa to main
[07:01] <mdz> pitti: shouldn't we have used -esd?
[07:02] <mdz> pitti: yes, agreed
[07:02] <mdz> pitti: go ahead and seed it to supported
[07:02] <pitti> mdz: for games, low latency is probably better
[07:02] <pitti> mdz: so I'd seed both -esd and -alsa
[07:02] <mdz> pitti: yes
[07:02] <pitti> mdz: so we keep the default to -oss?
[07:02] <mdz> pitti: in fact, there's probably no reason not to seed -all
[07:03] <mdz> they're all built from the same source in main so all the deps are probably there already
[07:03] <pitti> mdz: ok, then I seed all of the variants (-all, -alsa, -arts, -esd, -nas)
[07:04] <Riddell> Kamion: if I have a kubuntu-artwork-usplash package what needs done for it to get used?
[07:04] <mdz> pitti: -all depends on the rest
[07:04] <pitti> ah, ok
[07:05] <pitti> mdz: seeded
[07:06] <ogra_> mdz, i really dont get the sdl-ttf stuff but i happen to remember that i talked with pitti about it and we both were surprised it was in main already... i cant find anything in the rdepends that could have pulled it to main before...
[07:06] <pitti> mdz: so we postpone the default switch to dapper
[07:07] <mdz> ogra_: if it somehow ended up in main without anything pulling it in, then it would have immediately shown up as to be demoted in anastacia
[07:07] <ogra_> hmm
[07:07] <ogra_> do you have logs from anastacia ? i feel a bit silly...
[07:07] <mdz> no
[07:07] <mdz> ogra_: it's irrelevant, really
[07:07] <mdz> it isn't in main and it has no review
[07:08] <ogra_> sigh..
[07:08] <bddebian> ogra_: See, elmo ignores me ;-P
[07:09] <mdz> bddebian: I don't think that's a fair characterization after waiting 8 minutes for a reply
[07:11] <bddebian> notice the ;-P :-)
[07:13] <mjg59> bddebian: It is an accusation that you seem to make an awful lot...
[07:16] <sladen> bddebian: elmo is in the UK.  Like every other british person here, he finished 1:15 hours ago...  You'll have to wait until 08:59 tomorrow.
[07:16] <fabbione> Kamion: ah ok.. but again, don't get too crazy if it gets too hugly
[07:17] <mdz> pitti: is aspell-es source obsolete?
[07:18] <pitti> mdz: it's a bit difficult; aspell-es is built from both the espa-nol and aspell-es source, but espa-nol has a newer version 
[07:18] <pitti> mdz: so I guess the source package is obsolete, yes
[07:19] <bddebian> mjg59: No usually I accuse myself of bugging him too much :-)
[07:19] <mdz> pitti: if it's truly obsolete, we should remove it entirely to avoid the possibility of it superseding the espa-nol binary in the future
[07:19] <pitti> mdz: I don't know for sure TBH, I'll mail the Debian maintainer
[07:21] <zyga> hello
[07:22] <bddebian> Heya zyga
[07:22] <pitti> mdz: I tell you when I got an answer
[07:23] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[07:27] <zyga> I'm falling apart
[07:27] <zyga> four projects ... :/
[07:27] <zyga> how are you guys/girls?
[07:27] <mvo> hey zyga, I'm preparing a uplaod with your i18n patches 
[07:28] <zyga> mvo: super, I'll check it :-)
[07:28] <mvo> zyga: it was only the missing "_("translations")", right? and the pl.po file?
[07:29] <zyga> mvo: well I'd also add _("extra")
[07:29] <zyga> anything that can appear as section in synaptic
[07:30] <mvo> zyga: where does extra come from?
[07:30] <zyga> mvo: once you upgrade I'll install every possible package (non-conflicting) from the repo and check if anything else shows up
[07:30] <zyga> mvo: I'm not sure really 
[07:30] <zyga> mvo: no sorry!
[07:30] <zyga> mvo: restricted
[07:30] <zyga> but I guess extra did show up too...
[07:32] <mvo> zyga: it's only usefull if the translators have a idea what the section means :) I need to put some comment in at least
[07:33] <zyga> mvo: yes, put the commets, look at other stuff in the same file
[07:33] <zyga> mvo: every section is explicitly labeled as such
[07:33] <Kamion> Riddell: I haven't worked out the exact details yet, but just let me know and I'll sort it out somehow
[07:33] <mvo> zyga: I'll add "restricted", but I don't know what to do with "extra", I can't think of a usefull comment for it
[07:34] <Kamion> Riddell: in fact, yes, it's trivial, just a cdimage seed change
[07:34] <zyga> mvo: 'Extra' is okay
[07:35] <zyga> mvo: remember - it's about the translator
[07:35] <zyga> Ekstra
[07:35] <zyga> Dodatkowe
[07:35] <zyga> or whatever
[07:35] <zyga> I'm sure you could show your ideas
[07:36] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu-artwork-usplash has been uploaded
[07:37] <Kamion> Riddell: debian-cd adjusted accordingly, for both Kubuntu and Edubuntu (which has edubuntu-artwork-usplash)
[07:38] <janimo> is the default ubuntu artwork part of the usplash package?
[07:38] <janimo> and edubuntu and kubuntu provide it separately?
[07:38] <Riddell> janimo: yes
[07:39] <Riddell> Kamion: great, thanks
[07:39] <janimo> and installing one of those gets the default art changed?
[07:39] <janimo> or is it a CDonly thing?udeb
[07:39] <Kamion> janimo: no, separate package
[07:39] <Riddell> janimo: you need to run update-initramfs -u
[07:39] <Kamion> {kubuntu,eduubuntu}-artwork-usplash
[07:39] <janimo> ok thanks guys
[07:39] <Riddell> janimo: update-initramfs -u -t if it's your first run
[07:40] <Kamion> Riddell: remember to seed kubuntu-artwork-usplash
[07:40] <Kamion> ogra_: remember to seed edubuntu-artwork-usplash
[07:40] <Kamion> (if you haven't already)
[07:40] <Riddell> Kamion: in the desktop seed?
[07:40] <zyga> yay, xorg upgrade
[07:40] <zyga> I really like the new separated xorg package
[07:40] <ogra_> yup
[07:40] <Kamion> Riddell: ship
[07:40] <zyga> insead of downloading one big blob
[07:40] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[07:40] <zyga> we can download multiple small blobs that all depend on each other
[07:40] <zyga> yay
[07:40] <Kamion> well, desktop would work too
[07:41] <Kamion> that would cause the kubuntu-desktop metapackage to depend on kubuntu-artwork-usplash too
[07:41] <Kamion> which may or may not be appropriate; up to you
[07:41] <Kamion> usplash is in desktop, so I guess desktop would be best, actually
[07:41] <Riddell> Kamion: well usplash is in desktop
[07:41] <Kamion> yeah
[07:41] <Riddell> ok
[07:47] <Diziet> Firefox makes me wish for makecache, which is like ccache except impossible.
[07:48] <zyga> Diziet: why is it impossible?
[07:48] <zyga> Diziet: if you dont dump everything you built and it has no dependency on changed stuff ... it should work?
[07:49] <Diziet> Make can invoke things (and look at files) that the wrapper can't know about without ptraceing make, which would make it far too slow.
[07:49] <Diziet> Maybe an LD_PRELOAD could do it faster.  But then to tell whether the cache was still relevant you'd have to stat all of those things again.
[07:50] <zyga> Diziet: maybe getting rid of such stuff from the makefiles could hel
[07:50] <zyga> help
[07:51] <Diziet> Good idea.  Please send your patches to the Firefox build system upstream :-).
[07:52] <desrt> hughsie; cc me, please
[07:52] <zyga> Diziet: oh okay - as soon as I get cold fusion working, okay?
[07:53] <Kamion> please design my teleporter first; I want a cron job interface to it so that I can be transported to the pub without having to think about it
[07:53] <ogra_> Kamion, no beer at home ? 
[07:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping
[07:53] <zyga> Kamion: well once I do that I'll beem you directly to your teleporter pad - untill then just stand still and wait
[07:54] <Kamion> not quite as much variety
[07:54] <\sh> Kamion: hmmm...nice idea...we should BoF it ,-)
[07:54] <Mithrandir> mdz: pong
[07:54] <Mithrandir> mdz: or, semi-pong, I'm making pancakes so high-latency.
[07:54] <ogra_> \sh, hey, the we even could meet all in Kamion's pub 
[07:55] <ogra_> *then
[07:55] <\sh> ogra_: did u ever play with wpa_supplicant?
[07:55] <ogra_> nope
[07:55] <ogra_> all i can think after nearly 60h worktime in 3 days is screensaver, screensaver, screensaver ....
[07:56] <ogra_> and this darn unlock button still doesnt work...
[07:57] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: ooooh. I know what I want next time we visit ;-).
[07:57] <\sh> ogra_: lets swap the work...u deal with EIT tables and I will rewrite screensaver from scratch ;)
[07:59] <ogra_> \sh, haha, you should hav offered that last friday, now i have only the unlock button left... i hope i can upload the new lock patch tonight
[07:59] <\sh> ogra_: I think u don't want to deal with broken java stuff on windows 
[08:00] <drac> Breezys 2.6.12 kernel, and X.org. Matrox card. LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose glxinfo. "MGA DRI driver expected DDX version 1-1.2.x but got version 1.1.1"
[08:00] <drac> So.. no 3D anymore. :P
[08:00] <ogra_> \sh, during this screenaver change there were times i wished i had to :p
[08:01] <Keybuk> waaaah
[08:01] <drac> I hope that won't be final version of Mesa.. or kernel in breezy :(
[08:01] <Keybuk> did someone just hit "ASSIGN ALL BUGS TO KEYBUK" ? :p
[08:02] <Mithrandir> mdz: oh well, dinner, I'll repong in a little while.
[08:02] <ogra_> hmm, great idea, now you bring that up...
[08:02] <mdz> jbailey: bugzilla is saying "Excluding:  jbailey@ubuntu.com " for your bugs
[08:03] <mdz> Mithrandir: bug 15571 needs some love; what's highest on your todo list right now?
[08:03] <Nafallo> drac: file a bug :-)
[08:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: dinner. :-)
[08:04] <mdz> Mithrandir: your Ubuntu todo list
[08:05] <jbailey> mdz: Yes.  I use the queries to get the bugs instead of getting them by email.
[08:05] <Mithrandir> mdz: I could look at that, sure
[08:06] <Mithrandir> mdz: I've been banging my head against the g-s-t generates invalid passwords on amd64 the whole day.
[08:06] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'll be around late into my night, let's talk about it in your morning
[08:06] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, sure.
[08:06] <mjg59> Hrm.
[08:08] <mdz> jbailey: then you need to read every bug to see what has changed
[08:08] <mdz> jbailey: sometimes I add a comment to a bug asking about its status, and I don't hear back from you
[08:09] <mdz> likewise, you'd need to check every bug to see if a user added new information
[08:09] <mdz> this seems awfully inefficient
[08:09] <jbailey> mdz: In this case I probably missed it because I thought it was more after-deadline m-o-m noise.
[08:10] <jbailey> mdz: I found that I was missing emails in my mailbox because of the volume.  Instead I sort by the last-touched date in the lists and can see what's changed.
[08:11] <jbailey> I can add it back for now.  I'm just trying to figure a way of managing malone, rt, bugzilla and the other email in some reasonable way.
[08:11] <mdz> whatever works for you, so long as you're  notified when a bug is updated
[08:11] <Nafallo> NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline tomorrow. what's not langpacks? :-)
[08:11] <mdz> Nafallo: the installer
[08:11] <Nafallo> mdz: nothing else?
[08:12] <mdz> oo.o and firefox perhaps
[08:12] <Riddell> mdz: main inclusion reports done
[08:12] <Nafallo> oki. thanx.
[08:12] <janimo> seb128, any thoughts on the lpi sans libgnome bug?
[08:14] <Kamion> Nafallo: .desktop files
[08:15] <Nafallo> Kamion: are those in Rosetta to?
[08:15] <Nafallo> Kamion: btw, pkgconf-* is the installer, right?
[08:16] <Kamion> Nafallo: Rosetta> no idea
[08:16] <Kamion> Nafallo: no, that's debian/po/ directories, i.e. debconf templates
[08:17] <Nafallo> but that's what the installer uses? I've already translated some of those the other night...
[08:17] <Kamion> the installer uses debconf a lot, yes, but by no means all debconf use is by the installer
[08:17] <Nafallo> hmm, oki :-)
[08:17] <Kamion> I forget whether other debconf templates are included in language packs, but I kind of doubt it
[08:18] <Nafallo> then all pkgconf-* should be high priority for us :-P
[08:18] <Kamion> it's a bit of a tradeoff; pkgconf-* files outside of the installer aren't displayed to users as much as some normal translations elsewhere
[08:19] <Kamion> so kind of up to you ...
[08:20] <mdz> jbailey: what is the intent of all this new usplash/initrramfs complexity?
[08:20] <mdz> jbailey: we're awfully close to release for this sort of thing
[08:21] <Nafallo> the normal translations are in langpacks, that will give us another week ;-)
[08:21] <Kamion> looked like making usplash run earlier, to me
[08:22] <mdz> Riddell: thanks, have pitti review them and move them to the top section
[08:23] <jbailey> mdz: It lets the splash image be skinned easily.
[08:24] <jbailey> mdz: The change is just that it gets the file from a dlopen rather than having it built in.
[08:24] <bddebian> mdz: In all honesty, how should we determine if a package should be morgued or not??
[08:24] <jbailey> So it's quite minor.
[08:24] <Kamion> (ah)
[08:24] <drac> Nafallo: Where do I file bugs against Ubuntu.. ?
[08:24] <jbailey> bddebian: If it doesn't move when you stick a fork in it...
[08:24] <mdz> jbailey: it also adds an alternative
[08:24] <bddebian> jbailey: :-)
[08:24] <mdz> jbailey: which has already spawned bug #16514
[08:25] <jbailey> mdz: Yeah, fixed by the -13 upload this morning.
[08:26] <jbailey> I made a thinko between /usr/lib and /usr/share
[08:27] <mdz> jbailey: it's easy to make mistakes when introducing this type of change, which is why we need to avoid it this late in the game
[08:27] <mdz> we should only be fixing high-impact bugs and low-risk bugs
[08:27] <Nafallo> drac: bugzilla.ubuntu.com for main
[08:28] <jbailey> mdz: 'k.  The only other major one I have that I'm still testing is debconf'ing the glibc questions and some locale updates.  I think it's major enough since the old upgrade-applet doesn't automatically pop up the terminal window for questions.
[08:29] <mdz> jbailey: yes, the glibc questions need to be addressed, but I think debconf is not the best approach at this stage.  We should use a sane default and suppress the question
[08:29] <mdz> debconf introduces a lot of variables
[08:31] <dholbach> could somebody give me another opinion on lintian-overriding non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink with the reasoning "that lib is not used anywhere, won't split out"?
[08:31] <jbailey> dholbach: I tend to prefer to keep lintian warnings as a reminder in the future in case something *does* grow a dependancy on it.
[08:32] <bddebian> Shoot, I didn't realize scribus was a main package :-(
[08:33] <dholbach> because i tend to be a bit anal about the out splitting, i find myself in front of the new fashion to lintian-override it
[08:33] <jbailey> mdz: We already force restart them in $DEBIAN_FRONTEND == noninteractive mode, it would be easy enough to just make this the case always.
[08:33] <dholbach> (but i got a good thrashing from fabbione, maybe that's why i have an eye on it :-))
[08:34] <mdz> jbailey: that sounds reasonable to me
[08:35] <jbailey> mdz: Do you think it's worth doing a notification applet notification to say that  NSS has been updated and rebooting isn't a horrible idea?
[08:35] <jbailey> (Not in those words)
[08:36] <mdz> jbailey: yes, I do; I was thinking about that during my last hoary->breezy upgrade
[08:38] <dholbach> thank you, jbailey 
[08:41] <Keybuk> jbailey: to be honest, any libc update (even a minor one) really should be followed by a reboot
[08:41] <Keybuk> otherwise you have two copies of it mapped into memory
[08:42] <Keybuk> but *shrug* I've never convinced most unix people that reboots aren't bad, and uptime chasing is silly
[08:42] <bddebian> heh
[08:43] <jbailey> Keybuk: It's not a problem in classic unix and mainframe circles.
[08:43] <jbailey> Keybuk: Almost all high-end services I've ever seen has a weekly reboot for sanity.
[08:44] <Kamion> I find them more a hassle than bad, personally; I lose state
[08:45] <mitsuhiko> hi guys
[08:45] <jbailey> Kamion: A surprising number of my apps preserve state when I save the session, it's kinda frightening.
[08:45] <mitsuhiko> can someone explain me "Solution #2" on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnsignedGpgKey ?
[08:48] <bddebian> mitsuhiko: What is to explain?
[08:48] <zyga> mitsuhiko: it's longish, takes more money, it's silly
[08:49] <zyga> mitsuhiko: wait for a trip to some foreign country and sign away
[08:49] <mitsuhiko> zyga: hm
[08:49] <mitsuhiko> zyga: ok. i'll sleep about it :)
[08:49] <ogra_> zyga, why does it need to be in a foreign country ? 
[08:50] <zyga> ogra_: if you cannot do #1 it's probably because there is no-one near you
[08:50] <zyga> (probably)
[08:50] <ogra_> zyga, so i have to go to another country instead of another city ? 
[08:51] <zyga> ogra_: if you cannot do #1 its probably because it's not convenitent 
[08:51] <zyga> ogra_: ;-)
[08:51] <zyga> okay okay it's not strict but I'd say that the only reason to use #1 if the nearest person is really really far away
[08:52] <Kamion> the only reason to use #2, I guess you mean
[08:52] <zyga> ah
[08:52] <zyga> yes :)
[08:53] <ogra_> i still dont get why that needs to involve foreign contries... :)
[08:53] <Kamion> it's just an example ok
[08:53] <ogra_> ok...
[08:53] <Kamion> you're being too precise :)
[08:54] <ogra_> mitsuhiko, didnt you live in dortmund ? 
[08:54] <mitsuhiko> ogra_: ney, hermagor ^^
[08:54] <mitsuhiko> ogra_: somewhere in the south of austria
[08:54] <ogra_> oh, ok
[08:55] <zyga> ogra_: because the country boundary is usually far more difficult to cross than city boundary
[08:56] <ogra_> zyga, i simply cant imagine there are n austrians with a signed gpg key :) but lets drp this conversation here 
[08:56] <ogra_> s/n/no
[08:57] <zyga> ogra_: I did not apply this to any explicit country context
[08:59] <seb128> janimo: not worked on it yet
[09:07] <lamont>  * Unmounting local filesystems...                                              umount: tmpfs busy - remounted read-only
[09:07] <lamont> umount: /dev/hda4 busy - remounted read-only
[09:07] <lamont> feh
[09:12] <lamont> pitti: ping
[09:16] <lamont> seb128: you around?>
[09:17] <dholbach> <- dog walk
[09:18] <seb128> lamont: pong
[09:18] <lamont> seb128: trying to rationalize which source packages gtk-smooth-engine should be building/delivering and which ones need to be removed/epoch'ed/whatever to make things sane again....
[09:20] <seb128> lamont: gtk2-engines could probably build it
[09:22] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, you can still upload .desktop after non language pack freeze?
[09:22] <lamont> seb128: the heart of the issue is that hppa has gtk-engines-smooth_0.6.0.1-1_hppa.deb in the arvhive, but no one else does...
[09:22] <bddebian> WaterSevenUb: Apparently not advised ;-)
[09:22] <seb128> lamont: gtk2-engines was probably building it for some time
[09:23] <lamont> seb128: so either the source (gtk-engines-smooth) should be removed or made buildable.
[09:23] <lamont> ia64/sparc have gtk2-engines-smooth, but hppa doesn't... hrm
[09:24] <WaterSevenUb> bbdebian, ok.. so I still have time until tomorrow to bother mvo :-)
[09:24] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, if you manage some time, upload them ;)
[09:24] <lamont> and yet hppa has uploaded a finished gtk2-engines...
[09:24] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: erm, right :)
[09:25] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, thx for language-selector change too :)
[09:26] <lamont> seb128: breezy-autotest shows that (today), the gtk2-engines source in breezy does _NOT_ deliver gtk2-engines-smooth, while it did previously...
[09:26] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, now that uses iso-codes how is thing updated in rosetta?
[09:26] <lamont> so a no-change upload of gtk2-engines will break gnome.  kthxbye
[09:26] <seb128> lamont: yeah, we probably did and Debian didn't so when we synced
[09:26] <seb128> lamont: how will it break GNOME? gnome doesn't really care about this package :)
[09:27] <lamont> well, break might be a strong word.
[09:27] <seb128> lamont: anyway will fix it
[09:27] <lamont> since hppa has the gtk-engines-smooth version, adding hppa to the scripts pulls that source into main, while the other architectures are happy with the (no longer built the same) gtk2-engines
[09:28] <seb128> oh, the package is a main one
[09:28] <lamont> seb128: if gtk-engines-smooth should go away completely, please request that.  Otherwise, it needs to have a higher version number.
[09:28] <seb128> gotcha
[09:28] <lamont> Rejected: gtk2-engines-smooth_0.6.0.1-1_ia64.deb: old version (1:2.6.2-0ubuntu2) in breezy >= new version (0.6.0.1-1) targeted at breezy.
[09:28] <lamont> from breezy-at
[09:28] <seb128> no it doesn't, it still builds the gtk1 variant
[09:29] <elmo> actually that's from the main archive
[09:29] <lamont> elmo: ah, ok
[09:29] <lamont> anyway, thanks seb128
[09:30] <seb128> np
[09:30] <pitti> Hi lamont
[09:31] <lamont> pitti: lobbed a bug at you
[09:31] <lamont> 16562
[09:31] <lamont> (all of the archive is still using the old 7.4 pgtcl.  thought you'd like to know...)
[09:32] <pitti> lamont: well, actually there was no libpgtcl at all in breezy
[09:32] <pitti> lamont: right, I'll add an epoch
[09:32] <lamont> pitti: thanks
[09:34] <pitti> lamont: could you please have a look at #10119?
[09:36] <lamont> pitti: the answer to your question is 'poorly'
[09:36] <lamont> I've hardcoded vfat on a number of them, because it picks fat when left to itself...
[09:36] <lamont> I guess I could go look at the detection code and figure it out
[09:37] <Kamion> pitti: last I checked, mount used libblkid or whatever it is to try to do the guesswork
[09:37] <Kamion> which grobbles about inside the filesystem with various heuristics
[09:37] <lamont> sounds right
[09:37] <Kamion> but ICBW, and mount might have its own heuristics too
[09:38] <ogra_> Kamion, enjoy
[09:39] <pitti> night Kamion 
[09:40] <ivoks> pitti: :)
[09:40] <ivoks> so -alsa will not be default... :/
[09:40] <pitti> ah, btw, does anyone happen to have an ia64 box with a sid or breezy dchroot?
[09:40] <ivoks> pitti: ravel?
[09:40] <pitti> ivoks: I discussed this with mdz, too close to the release; but at least the other drivers will be in main
[09:41] <ogra_> ivoks, ravel is amd64
[09:41] <ivoks> ah...
[09:41] <pitti> I need a sparc, ia64, or fast mips box
[09:41] <pitti> postmaster SIGBUSes on these platforms
[09:41] <fabbione> pitti: ??
[09:42] <ogra_> my mips only has irix on it :(
[09:42] <fabbione> pitti: what do you need on sparc?
[09:42] <Nafallo> Kamion: I hope you crawl Rosetta last thing tomorrow evening ;-).
[09:42] <pitti> fabbione: I need a relatively fast machine with about 500 MB for debugging postgresql 
[09:42] <pitti> fabbione: I need the psql build deps, gdb, strace
[09:43] <pitti> fabbione: Florian Weimer gave me access to a mips, but it is missing gdb, and he's not available ATM
[09:43] <pitti> fabbione: s/Weimer/Lohoff/
[09:43] <fabbione> i can give you sparc..
[09:43] <fabbione> it's not THAT fast.. but there is space
[09:43] <pitti> fabbione: oh, do you happen to have a breezy build log?
[09:43] <fabbione> sure
[09:44] <fabbione> i think so at least
[09:44] <pitti> fabbione: it automatically runs the test suite, and I'm interested in the results
[09:44] <fabbione> http://bld-3.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/p/postgresql/7.4.7-2ubuntu2.1/
[09:44] <fabbione> pitti: that one should fit your need
[09:45] <fabbione> one dir up for other versions
[09:45] <henriquemaia> Hello, I'm having a problem with my amarok on my Breezy. 
[09:45] <pitti> fabbione: oh, that's hoary
[09:45] <henriquemaia> When I start it, I get:
[09:45] <pitti> fabbione: with hoary and gcc-3.3 it works, I need breezy or sid
[09:45] <henriquemaia> Starting amarokapp..
[09:45] <henriquemaia> amaroK: [Loader]  Don't run gdb, valgrind, etc. against this binary! Use amarokapp.
[09:45] <henriquemaia> amaroK: [Loader]  amarokapp probably crashed!
[09:45] <fabbione> pitti: what version is in sid?
[09:45] <fabbione> sorry breezy..
[09:45] <henriquemaia> Anyone knows what's this?
[09:46] <fabbione> henriquemaia: -> #kubuntu
[09:46] <pitti> fabbione: any recent, preferably 8.0.3-12 or later
[09:46] <pitti> fabbione: that URL also has postgresql-8.0 logs
[09:46] <henriquemaia> I'm using gnome, but thanks.
[09:46] <pitti> fabbione: it's HPPA, it fails there as well
[09:46] <fabbione> pitti: meh i don't have these logs. but it did build...
[09:47] <fabbione> pitti: send me your ssh key
[09:47] <pitti> fabbione: yes, I currently do not let a failed test suite fail the build
[09:47] <pitti> fabbione: http://www.piware.de/mpitt-ssh.pub
[09:47] <fabbione> pitti: via email please?
[09:47] <fabbione> (at least signed)
[09:48] <pitti> fabbione: alright
[09:49] <Keybuk> user "firefoxinnovator" logs in as "chiefinnovator"
[09:49] <\sh> at last...working from bed
[09:49] <Keybuk> (#16510)
[09:50] <Keybuk> cute
[09:50] <fabbione> pitti: working on it.. right a few secs..
[09:50] <pitti> fabbione: last time I debugged postgresql on a loaded m68k buildd machine  - THAT was fun :-)
[09:50] <fabbione> pitti: i could give you that too :)
[09:50] <pitti> fabbione: no thanks :-) it's working on m68k now
[09:50] <pitti> these slow machines are a PITA
[09:56] <ogra_> mdz, depmod -aQ ?? wht is -Q ?
[09:56] <ogra_> *what
[09:58] <elmo> dholbach: why are you uploading pwmanager for the THIRD time in a row?
[09:59] <bddebian> Heh, now dholbach gets his! ;-)
[10:05] <segfault> mvo: sorry, i forgot the attachment :/
[10:05] <segfault> will send asap.
[10:07] <ogra_> ARGH
[10:07] <ogra_> the 10th evolution crash today... and no time to debug grmpf
[10:07] <mvo> segfault: ok
[10:08] <\sh> ogra_: crash or just "not responding"
[10:08] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion: ping?
[10:08] <ogra_> \sh, it locks up, but the window stays...
[10:08] <segfault> that's why thunderbird is better.
[10:08] <\sh> ogra_: so no backtrace window..yeah the same here
[10:09] <Keybuk> elmo: bah, that's barely 200 millidhanielstones
[10:09] <ogra_> but i dont have time to care for that, if i dont manage to finish xscreensaver until tomorrow i can forget about edubuntu... i'm running out of time
[10:09] <elmo> Keybuk: the same package for the third time after two previous (identical) REJECTs
[10:11] <Keybuk> elmo: indeed
[10:12] <bddebian> millidhanielstones? :-)
[10:12] <Keybuk> bddebian: the Dhanielstone is the benchmark for the number of uploads per day
[10:12] <bddebian> Ahh heh
[10:12] <Keybuk> 1 Dhanielstone is 1 upload of X.org in 1 day
[10:13] <bddebian> Oh fuck, I did it again
[10:13] <lamont> Keybuk: is the comparison compile-time or disk-space based?
[10:13] <Keybuk> lamont: like all good benchmarks, it doesn't specify that
[10:13] <lamont> LOL
[10:14] <lamont> s
[10:16] <fabbione> Keybuk: ahhaha
[10:22] <lamont> nsDeviceContextSpecG.cpp:1215:2: error: #error !
[10:22] <lamont> make[5] : *** [nsDeviceContextSpecG.o]  Error 1
[10:22] <lamont> feh.
[10:22] <lamont> that's not very nice at all
[10:22] <sivang> lamont: what's the sound of "feh" ?
[10:22] <lamont> it sounds like, um. feh.
[10:22] <lamont> :-)
[10:23] <fabbione> lamont: yeah.. firefoxtrot
[10:23] <lamont> standard english 'F' followed by the 'e' from 'met'
[10:23] <lamont> fabbione: yep
[10:23] <fabbione> yeah i just saw it here
[10:23] <lamont> hppa 88.54% 5509 of 6222
[10:23] <lamont> sparc 82.99% 5196 of 6261
[10:23] <frank23> I know this is not a support channel, but can anyone modprobe ath_pci in 2.6.12-9?
[10:23] <mdke> frank23, i haven't got my acx111 card working in breezy yet
[10:24] <fabbione> lamont: as i told you.. my 82.99% can install ubuntu-desktop.. can you? ;)
[10:24] <frank23> mdke: I'm just trying to figure out if it's my problem or breezy's problem
[10:25] <fabbione> frank23: check bugzilla for linux-restricted-modules
[10:25] <fabbione> there are bugs open on madwifi
[10:25] <frank23> fabbione: ok
[10:25] <lamont>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: x-window-system-core but it is not going to be installed
[10:25] <lamont> '
[10:25] <lamont> fabbione: so it's close
[10:25] <fabbione> lamont: can you tell me in details why it's not installable?
[10:25] <fabbione> lamont: i can perhaps fix it easily
[10:26] <lamont> interestingly, apt-get install ubuntu-desktop x-window-system-core says it's happy
[10:26] <fabbione> no no
[10:26] <lamont> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[10:26] <lamont>   libesd0*
[10:26] <fabbione> it's happy because it's pulling in xserver-xorg-dbg
[10:26] <fabbione> xserver-xorg is not installable for some reasons
[10:26] <mdke> frank23, i have a bug open on acx_pci too
[10:26] <fabbione> (same that i was experiencing on sparc)
[10:27] <lamont> xserver-xorg-input-* has no installation candidate
[10:27] <fabbione> MEH
[10:28] <sivang> fabbione: and how does MEH sounds ? :)
[10:28] <fabbione> lamont: that's going to be fun
[10:28] <fabbione> sivang: M like in MYMUMMAOWNSYOU
[10:28] <fabbione> E as in FEH
[10:29] <fabbione> lamont: none of the drivers has been marked as hppa available...
[10:29] <fabbione> lamont: that's not easy..
[10:29] <fabbione> lamont: or at least fun
[10:31] <lamont> fabbione: what do I need to do to fix it, I wonder?
[10:31] <sivang> fabbione: okok, sorry if I bugged you :)
[10:31] <fabbione> sivang: i wasn't kidding ;)
[10:31] <fabbione> lamont: give love to debian/control and debian/scripts/vars.hppa
[10:31] <fabbione> lamont: the point is out of the 23283928 drivers..
[10:32] <fabbione> which ones do actually build and are used on hppa?
[10:32] <fabbione> that's something you either know or we need to figure looking at the build log
[10:32] <fabbione> or do a lot of interesting reading in Xmakefiles
[10:33] <lamont> fabbione: well, the fact that it depends on all of them, but builds none of them, is well, annoying
[10:33] <fabbione> yes
[10:33] <mdz> fabbione: yes?
[10:33] <fabbione> the problem is that: it builds everything.. we don't know what.. so pkgs are not generated
[10:34] <fabbione> lamont: + debian/scripts/vars.hppa will define the real Depends line
[10:34] <lamont> fabbione: ah, ok.
[10:34] <fabbione> mdz: hi
[10:34] <lamont> so is it just a matter of seeing what it built?
[10:34] <fabbione> mdz: i would like permission to upload discover1 with sparc only fixes. For other arches is just a rebuild
[10:34] <fabbione> lamont: exactly
[10:34] <fabbione> lamont: and associate it to the right package
[10:35] <mdz> fabbione: ok
[10:35] <fabbione> lamont: + adjust the final xserver-xorg Depends:
[10:35] <fabbione> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/sparc.diff <- diff
[10:35] <lamont> fabbione: OK.  I'll save the complete build tree, and see what we get
[10:35] <fabbione> if you want to check
[10:35] <fabbione> lamont: ok
[10:35] <lamont> but right now, must run away for a bit.
[10:35] <fabbione> mdz: the first chuck is inside an ifdef, but it's not obvious
[10:35] <fabbione> mdz: the rest is...
[10:35] <fabbione> lamont: sure
[10:35] <fabbione> later
[10:36] <mdz> fabbione: I see, thanks
[10:37] <fabbione> mdz: thanks to you
[10:50] <mvo> carlos: I did the apt upload now, I hope everything is fine and it can be imported into rosetta now :)
[10:55] <LaschW> Is there any online documentation of OEM mode installation of breezy available?
[10:56] <Burgundavia> LaschW, not currently
[10:56] <Burgundavia> LaschW, it is planned to have some written
[10:57] <LaschW> Burgundavia: So is there any CVS access to have a closer look?
[10:58] <Burgundavia> LaschW, at the code for oem config? no idea, ask Kamion 
[10:59] <LaschW> Kamion: Is there any CVS access to have a closer look at OEM mode install related programms?`
[11:14] <doko> pitti: are the belocs-locales going to main, or do they stay in universe?
[11:14] <janimo> is elmo's address james@c.c?
[11:14] <carlos> mvo, thank you
[11:15] <bddebian> janimo: Might work but I know james.troup@u.c works
[11:15] <pitti> doko: for breezy we'll keep them in universe, but I'd like to switch to it in dapper
[11:16] <janimo> bbdebian, thanks
[11:16] <bddebian> np
[11:21] <Keybuk> hmm, two things
[11:21] <Keybuk> first, usplash didn't even appear that reboot
[11:21] <Keybuk> jbailey: did you just break it? :p
[11:22] <Keybuk> and secondly, I'm afraid I get 35 MB/sec from my laptop drive whatever I have running :-/
[11:22] <slomo> elmo: did you read my mosml mail? (and the ffmpeg one weeks ago? ;) )
[11:23] <Keybuk> mdz: 14330, 10517, 8873 (/dev/rawXXX not world-writable)  are you happy to leave those NOTABUG ... if people really want the entire world being able to write directly to any firewire device they should change the permissions/rules themselves
[11:24] <doko> pitti: ok, then I'll leave the extra languages disabled for OOo2
[11:25] <mdz> Keybuk: if the dv device exists so that applications can get access to firewire video devices, they should use that interface
[11:25] <Keybuk> yeah, that's what I figure
[11:25] <mdz> if it doesn't do what they need, it's buggy
[11:25] <Keybuk> it's like an app writing to /proc/bus/usb not /dev/video0
[11:25] <Keybuk> actually, it's worse, because at least /proc/bus/usb is device-discreet <g>
[11:26] <bddebian> Anyone see an issue with bringing in the gutenprint stuff from Debian?  It replaces the ijsgimpprint stuff (package rename)
[11:26] <Keybuk> are there such things as firewire hubs?
[11:26] <bddebian> Not that I have seen
[11:31] <sladen> Keybuk: http://www.charismac.com/Products/firedino/
[11:31] <mjg59> Nnngh.
[11:32] <Keybuk> sladen: cute.
[11:33] <bddebian> Oh brother :-)
[11:34] <HiddenWolf> damn, redhat is going to be big... :P
[11:34] <jbailey> Keybuk: Shouldn't have, I've seen a bunch of success reports today and tested on 4 archs.
[11:34] <HiddenWolf> they're supposed to put 16 million copies of redhat on the 100 dollar MIT-pc. For starters.
[11:50] <mjg59>  I hate vga16fb so much
[11:52] <mdz> HiddenWolf: they have a hypothetical deal to bundle redhat with a hypothetical product ;-)
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> mdz, It's a hell of a big roll-out, if they'd get the deal
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> mdz, just saw some concept sketches, it seems to be still moving forward.
[11:53] <mdz> and the product actually goes to market...and ships that many units...
[11:54] <HiddenWolf> Even if they realise 10% of their goals, that's still 1.5 million units in the first year. ;)
[11:56] <sladen> mjg59: get people to put their answers on a wiki page;  then you won't flood the mailing list like last time :)
[11:57] <mjg59> Riddell: Hello?
[11:57] <Riddell> mjg59: hello
[11:58] <mjg59> Riddell: Unless something is done to klaptopwhatever soon, power management is going to suck on kubuntu
[11:58] <Riddell> mjg59: what needs done?
[11:58] <mjg59> Riddell: It needs to call the correct scripts rather than just triggering a suspend itself
[11:59] <Riddell> mjg59: what are the correct scripts?
[11:59] <mjg59> Riddell: For suspend, it should call /etc/acpi/sleep.sh. For hibernate, it should call /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh
[11:59] <HiddenWolf> mdz, and will you fix malone #1 already? ;)
[12:00] <Riddell> mjg59: ok.  what's the gnome program that handles that?
[12:00] <mdz> mjg59: I thought it was supposed to call pmi
[12:00] <mdz> HiddenWolf: working on it
[12:01] <mjg59> Riddell: There isn't - acpid gets the event
[12:01] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah, that's probably true
[12:01] <sladen> mjg59: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=140848 re: incorrect modelines in vga16fb
[12:01] <mjg59> Riddell: scratch what I said - use pmi instead
[12:02] <mjg59> pmi action sleep and pmi action hibernate
[12:02] <mjg59> You may want to use the force parameter