/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/10/04/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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jsgotangcoBurgundavia, what's with the tar.gz upload?05:30
MadpilotPPChi all07:01
jsgotangcohey07:05
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MadpilotPPChttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/  <-- "It's alive!" ;)07:44
jsgotangcohehe07:47
MadpilotPPClooks good, too07:48
ajmitchevening all07:54
ajmitchwhat's new?07:54
MadpilotPPCnot much here - The Fridge is running, though, which is cool Ubuntu news...07:56
ajmitchI'm sure I saw it running a week or two ago ;)07:56
MadpilotPPCheh, OK, I"m just behind the times here...07:56
ajmitchand it's still a bit bare 07:57
MadpilotPPCgood framework, though07:57
ajmitchhttp://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=63107:57
MadpilotPPCright now it just seems like an alternate version of planet.ubuntu, though ;)07:57
ajmitchinteresting link on the fridge there07:58
MadpilotPPCwhich one?08:00
ajmitchthe impilinux announcement08:00
MadpilotPPCread that - actually having a look around the website it came from now08:00
MadpilotPPClots of Linux stuff going on in RSA these days08:00
ajmitchyeah08:01
ajmitchsabdfl is busy down there :)08:01
MadpilotPPCyup08:01
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MadpilotPPCthat's cool, someone has finally combined the CC licences and the GPL: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/GPL/2.0/08:45
jsgotangcowow08:46
jsgotangcohmm that's still the GPL but human-readable08:48
MadpilotPPCexactly08:48
MadpilotPPCI'm reasonable good at parsing legal docs, but the GPL defeats me - CC is just so much easier...08:50
MadpilotPPC*reasonably, not reasonable... 08:50
jsgotangcoOnubalinux?09:39
rob^umm, did anyone else have to dist-update to get the new ubuntu-docs package?09:47
jsgotangcoof course09:51
jsgotangcoor its already seeded09:51
jsgotangcorob^, the faqguide looks really trashy in some chapters09:51
rob^it was holding it back09:51
rob^jsgotangco, which ones?09:51
jsgotangcorob^, force it :)09:51
rob^yeah I did09:51
jsgotangcorob^, some chapters don't have linkx09:52
jsgotangcoitems i mean09:52
rob^I think something odd is going on, all of the credits and stuff are missing too09:52
jsgotangcooh the credits are fine09:52
jsgotangcosome of the entities are just not packaged yet09:53
rob^ooh ouch.. eg: Register free Dynamic DNS at .09:53
rob^wtf is up with that?09:53
jsgotangcorob^, yes see that?09:53
rob^yeah.. odd it wasn't doing that before09:53
jsgotangcomy guess is that its with the entities09:53
jsgotangcowhich are not included yet09:53
rob^so this issue will fix itself up when jbailey includes the entities file?09:54
rob^also, on the yelp front page, the faqguide is listed as "Unofficial Ubuntu 5.10 Starter Guide09:54
rob^"09:54
jsgotangcoheh i should fix it myself later09:54
jsgotangcothats easy to sort out, probably from the old omf file09:58
rob^umm, so why are the credits etc removed, I thought this page was a requirement of one of the licences09:59
rob^well, at least the revision history anyway09:59
jsgotangcothey're not10:00
jsgotangco(i can see them here)10:00
rob^they are missing when I view the faqguide from the ubuntu-docs package in yelp10:01
jsgotangcohmm10:01
rob^when I view the faqguide from branch I get a few more of the missing pages back, but still no credits page, although in the xml file its clearly there10:03
rob^maybe yelp doesn't support <legalnotice> tags?10:05
jsgotangcomdke, what email is this?10:39
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dholbachheya! :)11:55
jsgotangcohey dholbach 11:55
jsgotangcoyou seem lost11:55
dholbachlost?11:55
jsgotangcoheh11:55
jsgotangcowhat brings you to this desert wasteland11:56
dholbachhaha :)11:56
dholbachis that so?11:56
jsgotangcowhats up?11:57
dholbachi wanted to ask the team's advice on http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/859511:57
dholbachit's about gnome's user-guide11:57
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dholbachi'll get an update from GNOME's cvs but i daresay it won't be enough to be up to scratch concerning 2.1211:58
jsgotangcoupstream isn't updated12:00
jsgotangcothere is an email a few weeks ago by Shaun McCance to have the user guide updated for 2.1212:00
jsgotangcobut that was a few days after 2.12 was released12:00
dholbachok, so you'd suggest i check for updates occasionally?12:01
dholbachdo you happen to know to which list he wrote it?12:01
jsgotangcognome-doc-list itself12:02
dholbachok12:02
dholbachjsgotangco, well-informed as always12:02
dholbach:)12:02
jsgotangcoi think the desktop guide itself is updated for 2.1012:02
jsgotangcobut yelp still shows it as 2.612:03
jsgotangcoobviously the omf file isn't updated12:03
dholbachah right12:03
jsgotangcoit seems i am the only one here who actually cares for yelp12:03
jsgotangcohehe12:04
jsgotangco2005-03-08: 2.10 (Shaun McCance)12:04
jsgotangcoSeptember 2004: GNOME 2.8 Desktop User Guide V2.812:04
dholbachthey seem to have a #docs channel12:04
jsgotangcoyeah12:04
dholbachi just read the "User Guide needs you"12:04
jsgotangcosee12:05
jsgotangcoi'd love to work upstream if i had the time12:05
dholbachyeah12:05
dholbachit's a tough job12:05
dholbachand a not-so-well-rewarded one :(12:05
jsgotangcognome docs has been neglegted really12:06
dholbachyeah, it's really sad - they formed the best desktop system, but didn't explain it :)12:07
jsgotangcoif i wasn't doing anything i'd do it myself12:07
jsgotangcobut it seems even opening up the doc to the wiki isn't working12:08
ajmitchhi dholbach, you've decided to visit as well? ;)12:09
dholbachyeah :)12:09
jsgotangcolots of people seem to like visiting the desert huh12:09
dholbachhaha12:09
ajmitchso much good stuff in gnome12:09
ajmitchso much that probably still needs documented12:10
dholbachi wish i could help you, but i daresay my efforts better go in elsewhere12:10
dholbachusers wouldnt understand me :)12:10
=== ajmitch imagines the sysadmin guide for desktop management will be *really* welcomed for dapper
ajmitchdholbach: write the sysadmin guide! :)12:10
jsgotangcodholbach, right, if i did work on gnome docs, id rather work directly to gnome and leave ubuntu docs work12:10
dholbachajmitch: man, i better get cracking on the bugs matt assigned me12:11
dholbachajmitch: that's of more use, i suppose12:11
ajmitchdholbach: certainly12:11
dholbach:)12:11
ajmitchdholbach: want me to look at any? :)12:11
dholbachhttp://tinyurl.com/drk8z - http://tinyurl.com/96e4l :)12:11
dholbachbut i guess this is the wrong channel to lament about that12:12
ajmitchyeah12:12
ajmitchwe'll head back to -desktop & whinge there ;)12:12
jsgotangcook i gotta go do some groceries first12:15
dholbachhave fun, jerome :)12:17
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segfaulthi04:07
segfaultmy the pt_BR translation of aboutubuntu isn't in the ubuntu-docs package?04:07
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segfaulterr, why.04:17
segfaultjbailey: are you around?04:17
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mdkesegfault, that has not been done yet05:23
mdkeonly the english version is in there to my knowledge05:23
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jbaileysegfault: Am now.05:43
mdkejbailey, he wanted to know how you are getting on with getting the relevant translations into the distro05:53
jbaileyRight now so far I'm just updating the package manually.05:54
jbaileyFrom whatever's committed to the branch.05:54
jbaileyI need to clean it up more to remove the entity errors that are there.05:54
mdkek05:55
mdkeso are the translations that are uploaded already working in Breezy?05:55
jbaileyYes, except for Tunesian and Portuguese.05:55
jbaileyI tested all of the others.05:55
mdkewow05:55
mdkehow come the stuff isn't in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs btw?05:56
jbaileyI put them where the gnome stuff seemed happiest to have it for yelp.05:57
mdkeah ok05:57
jbaileyIf it's wrong, please let me know. =)05:57
mdkedon't think it matters, was just curious05:57
jbaileyBut I just ripped apart a few other scrollkeeper docs, and the OMF files that were in there already generally pointed to those locations.05:58
mdkethe faqguide is at usr/share/ubuntu-docs and the quicktour html is at /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs05:58
jbaileyPart of me was thinking that I might generate the HTML files as well and still register them with doc-base.05:58
mdkeah cool05:58
jbaileyYeah.05:58
jbaileyI wonder if I should move it.05:58
mdkeup to you05:58
mdkeby the way, i will keep updating those tarballs of translations for about-ubuntu and faqguide05:58
mdkedo you want me to make some xml files manually, or do you think that script is doable?05:59
jbaileyI just need the time to do it.  Do you mind doing another update?06:00
jbaileyI'll ping pitti now.06:00
mdkejbailey, the latest one was last night, but we can keep doing them all the time, the key is to get the script which converts the tarballs to xml06:00
mdkejbailey, did you see my mail about that script?06:01
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pittiHi06:02
jbaileymdke: I did.06:02
jbaileyMartin!06:02
mdkehi pitti 06:02
mdkejbailey, great06:03
jbaileypitti: mdke has a script for exporting the rosetta stuff and reassembling the XML.06:03
mdkeerm...06:03
mdkedo I?06:03
jbaileymdke: Did I misunderstand the script?06:03
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pittierm, for which context?06:03
jbaileyI might be confused, it happens often.06:03
mdkeok i'll start from the beginning06:03
mdkepitti, we are translating our docs in rosetta06:03
mdkewe need to convert em from po->xml and then upload to breezy06:04
jbaileyAh, no script, just instructions. =)06:04
mdkejbailey, i understood you to be offering to write such a po->xml script ;)06:04
jbaileyRight. =)06:04
mdkei am incapable :D06:04
pittiah :-)06:04
jbaileyThat's why I was thinking of scripts.06:04
jbaileyMy confusion.06:04
jbaileypitti: Is there any possibility of hooking this into the langpack exports?06:04
pittijbailey: you mean building new XML files and build -docs packages?06:05
pittithat's certainly doable06:05
jbaileyWell, I don't know if it should be new -docs packages.06:05
mdkei suppose at the worst you could make ubuntu-docs-cc and get the language selector to choose them06:05
jbaileyOr something added to the langpack and just rerun scrollkeeper.06:05
pittiit doesn't fit into the current concept of the language pack builder, but it could become a separate script06:06
jbaileypitti: I think the docs are generally small enough to be just generally included.06:06
pittijbailey: yes, right, that would be possible, too06:06
pittijbailey: right now langpack-o-matic does not have that facility, but I'll think about a reasonably general implementation06:06
pittiis this planned for breezy?06:07
mdkeheh06:07
mdkewhat I had in mind was pulling the po's down manually, getting a script to create the xml, and uploading them to breezy either through ubuntu-docs-cc or ubuntu-docs itself06:07
jbaileypitti: Well it's a general feature that would be lovely for breezy but if not, then not.06:08
mdkeif the former (ubuntu-docs-cc), we'd need the language selector involved, i think06:08
jbaileymdke: Yeah.  But since ubuntu-docs is part of the base install, I don't see why we wouldn't just include it in the langpack directly.06:10
segfaultHI!06:11
mdkejbailey, i kind of assumed we couldn't do that, but if pitti can do it, then awesome06:11
segfaultwhat happened to pt_BR translations?06:11
segfaulti don't see it in ubuntu-docs06:11
jbaileymdke: pitti is *magic*06:11
mdkesegfault, possibly we haven't generated the xml file yet06:11
jbaileysegfault: I don't remember seeing a pt_BR on the branch.06:12
mdkeexactly06:12
jbaileysegfault: There was a pt.  I didn't work, and I don't know why yet.06:12
segfaultwe translated everything in Rosetta.06:12
mdkesegfault, we haven't created the documents yet06:12
mdkegive us some time :)06:12
pittijbailey: for starters, I'd just put the "update" script into the ubuntu-docs source packages and call it if necessary06:12
pittijbailey: once that works, I can integrate it into langpack-o-matic proper06:12
pittiwhat do you think about this?06:12
segfaultdo i need to send it to the svn repo?06:12
pittiI think that should be doable for Breezy06:13
mdkesegfault, no06:13
segfaulti thought you guys were getting everything from roesetta06:13
mdkesegfault, we are06:13
jbaileypitti: Sure.  I can do weekly checks to see whether or not any new translations have appeared and upload them.06:13
mdkesegfault, i mean "no", as in "you don't have to send it", because we'll do it06:13
segfaultsure06:13
segfaulthow about images?06:14
jbaileypitti: And then once we've proven the scripts, move it to the langpacks?06:14
mdkesegfault, we haven't got a plan for them06:14
segfaulthttp://www.ubuntubrasil.org/docs/about-ubuntu/about-ubuntu.pt_BR.html06:14
segfaulti put a preview here, with the translated image.06:14
segfaultor shouldn't i translate the default ubuntu image?06:14
mdkesegfault, probably not i would say06:15
mdkealthough that is nice06:15
pittijbailey: yes, that's the idea06:15
jbaileyDoes Rosetta handle images?06:15
pittijbailey: then we also move the documentation to the langpack debs itself?06:15
mdkejbailey, nope06:15
pittijbailey: do do you think it's better to upload a new autogenerated ubuntu-docs?06:15
jbaileyThe problem with the ubuntu-docs is then you carry baggage from language that you don't care about.06:16
mdkewhat about the ubuntu-docs-cc idea?06:16
jbaileymdke: I just wonder if it's worth the hassle of figuring out how to install them and such when there's already a general langpack.06:18
pittimdke: splitting is probably too heavy06:18
jbaileyThe only reasoan I can think of to make it a separate package is if there's people who would unisntall just that.06:18
pittimdke: I mean, it's not worth it06:18
=== jbailey imagines one of his mentors voices: "What problem is this trying to solve?"
mdkefair play06:18
mdkestick everything in ubuntu-docs for now is my opinion then, but I don't know much about it06:19
jbaileyMatthew said it, it must be right.  I'll do that ;)06:19
=== jbailey hides
jbailey=)06:19
jbaileypitti: Do we have easy access to do automated uploads, or should I do them by hand for now?06:20
mdkejbailey, so if I upload tarballs of po's from rosetta, is that script for po->xml doable?06:20
jbaileyI'm assuming it would pull from a bzr branch or something?06:20
pittijbailey: right now I do it as a special language pack user, which has its own GPG key06:20
jbaileymdke: It looks like a doable thing from the commands you gave.06:21
pittijbailey: so I can upload 400 packages at once without typing my passphrase 06:21
mdkecool06:21
jbaileyWhat?  No gpg-agent? =)06:21
pittijbailey: but this key can only upload packages language-pack-*06:21
jbaileyDid you arrange that with elmo or inifinity?06:21
pittijbailey: I tried to use gpg-agent, but it doesn't work with gpg06:21
jbaileyErr. =)06:21
pittijbailey: and gpg2 immediately crashes, so I gave up and just use gnome-gpg at home06:21
jbailey'fair nuff.06:21
pittijbailey: anyway, I arranged that with elmo06:22
pittijbailey: it would be easy to add the "ubuntu-docs" package to the allowed list for the langpack key06:22
jbaileypitti: Do you do it by hand right now or is it automated?06:22
pittijbailey: uploading langpacks?06:22
jbaileyDa.06:22
pittijbailey: well, I manually have to call the process, i. e. call one script to generate the source packages06:23
jbailey'k, so I'm not worried about it right now.06:23
mdkeok i'm gonna leave you guys to it06:23
pittithen I build some manmually, test them, then I call another script which mass-builds changes files and uploads them 06:23
jbaileyI'll worry about integrated it later to protect against me getting hit by a bus.06:23
mdkejbailey, let me know how you get on by email ya?06:23
jbaileySure. =006:23
mdkerockin06:24
pittijbailey: right now my gut feeling is that keeping a single "ubuntu-docs" package is the right thing as long as it stays reasonably small06:24
jbaileyMy only issue there is that screen shots and whatnot might inflate the package.06:26
jbaileyBut it's not the case right now.06:26
pittijbailey: well, splitting later is always easy06:27
pittifor Breezy we should probably keep it as it is now06:27
jbaileyOh, definetly.06:27
jbaileyThrough the dapper cycle from the beginning I will to weekly uploads.06:28
pittijbailey: we can automate that then06:28
pittijbailey: by that time we should have the Rosetta stuff running, and I'll automate langpack-o-matic more06:28
pittijbailey: right now it is still much manual hacking since I manually import the raw buildd output and have to babysit and care for cleanup myself06:29
jbaileyNyaah06:29
jbaileyOkay, I won't inflict bits on you. =)06:29
jbaileypitti: Ooo!  On an unrelated note...06:31
jbaileypitti: How do I get this into the notification applet? =)06:31
jbaileys/this/things/06:31
pittijbailey: just drop a file into /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/06:31
pittijbailey: u-n will pick it up through gamin06:31
jbaileypitti: Cool, thanks.06:38
jbaileypitti: What deletes them from there after?   Just the package getting purged?06:39
pittijbailey: yes, the package has to care for it06:39
jbaileyHmm.  So a new user on the system sees al lthe previous notifications.06:39
pittijbailey: and depending on what you do with the notificatoin, you shuold probably generate it in the postinst instead of just shipping the file06:39
pittijbailey: many notifications are cleaned on boot06:40
jbaileyAh, okay.06:40
jbaileythis is for glibc to say after an nss upgrade that now would be a good time to reboot.06:40
jbaileySo I can do that, too.06:40
pittijbailey: yep06:40
pittijbailey: I think mvo has a special flag for it which was designed for the kernel06:40
pittijbailey: in case you don't have a suitable init script which could remove it06:41
jbaileySure, but I could. =)06:42
pittijbailey: given that we now have four packages which ask for reboot, and after a dist-upgrade it is likely that you will see all four, we should factorize them somehow06:44
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jbaileypitti: Yeah.06:44
jbaileyProbably not a breezy thing, though.06:44
pittiyes06:45
jbaileyIt would be easy enough to have a translated file in /usr/share/doc somewhere and symlink it in.06:45
jbaileyAnd any package that wants it just adds the symlink.06:45
jbaileyAnd a script on reboot that deletes the symlink.06:45
jbaileyThen you can do an infinite number on ln -sf's. =)06:45
pittinice idea06:47
pittimaybe tell mvo in #u-d?06:47
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