[05:30] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, what's with the tar.gz upload?
[07:01] <MadpilotPPC> hi all
[07:05] <jsgotangco> hey
[07:44] <MadpilotPPC> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/  <-- "It's alive!" ;)
[07:47] <jsgotangco> hehe
[07:48] <MadpilotPPC> looks good, too
[07:54] <ajmitch> evening all
[07:54] <ajmitch> what's new?
[07:56] <MadpilotPPC> not much here - The Fridge is running, though, which is cool Ubuntu news...
[07:56] <ajmitch> I'm sure I saw it running a week or two ago ;)
[07:56] <MadpilotPPC> heh, OK, I"m just behind the times here...
[07:57] <ajmitch> and it's still a bit bare 
[07:57] <MadpilotPPC> good framework, though
[07:57] <ajmitch> http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=631
[07:57] <MadpilotPPC> right now it just seems like an alternate version of planet.ubuntu, though ;)
[07:58] <ajmitch> interesting link on the fridge there
[08:00] <MadpilotPPC> which one?
[08:00] <ajmitch> the impilinux announcement
[08:00] <MadpilotPPC> read that - actually having a look around the website it came from now
[08:00] <MadpilotPPC> lots of Linux stuff going on in RSA these days
[08:01] <ajmitch> yeah
[08:01] <ajmitch> sabdfl is busy down there :)
[08:01] <MadpilotPPC> yup
[08:45] <MadpilotPPC> that's cool, someone has finally combined the CC licences and the GPL: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/GPL/2.0/
[08:46] <jsgotangco> wow
[08:48] <jsgotangco> hmm that's still the GPL but human-readable
[08:48] <MadpilotPPC> exactly
[08:50] <MadpilotPPC> I'm reasonable good at parsing legal docs, but the GPL defeats me - CC is just so much easier...
[08:50] <MadpilotPPC> *reasonably, not reasonable... 
[09:39] <jsgotangco> Onubalinux?
[09:47] <rob^> umm, did anyone else have to dist-update to get the new ubuntu-docs package?
[09:51] <jsgotangco> of course
[09:51] <jsgotangco> or its already seeded
[09:51] <jsgotangco> rob^, the faqguide looks really trashy in some chapters
[09:51] <rob^> it was holding it back
[09:51] <rob^> jsgotangco, which ones?
[09:51] <jsgotangco> rob^, force it :)
[09:51] <rob^> yeah I did
[09:52] <jsgotangco> rob^, some chapters don't have linkx
[09:52] <jsgotangco> items i mean
[09:52] <rob^> I think something odd is going on, all of the credits and stuff are missing too
[09:52] <jsgotangco> oh the credits are fine
[09:53] <jsgotangco> some of the entities are just not packaged yet
[09:53] <rob^> ooh ouch.. eg: Register free Dynamic DNS at .
[09:53] <rob^> wtf is up with that?
[09:53] <jsgotangco> rob^, yes see that?
[09:53] <rob^> yeah.. odd it wasn't doing that before
[09:53] <jsgotangco> my guess is that its with the entities
[09:53] <jsgotangco> which are not included yet
[09:54] <rob^> so this issue will fix itself up when jbailey includes the entities file?
[09:54] <rob^> also, on the yelp front page, the faqguide is listed as "Unofficial Ubuntu 5.10 Starter Guide
[09:54] <rob^> "
[09:54] <jsgotangco> heh i should fix it myself later
[09:58] <jsgotangco> thats easy to sort out, probably from the old omf file
[09:59] <rob^> umm, so why are the credits etc removed, I thought this page was a requirement of one of the licences
[09:59] <rob^> well, at least the revision history anyway
[10:00] <jsgotangco> they're not
[10:00] <jsgotangco> (i can see them here)
[10:01] <rob^> they are missing when I view the faqguide from the ubuntu-docs package in yelp
[10:01] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:03] <rob^> when I view the faqguide from branch I get a few more of the missing pages back, but still no credits page, although in the xml file its clearly there
[10:05] <rob^> maybe yelp doesn't support <legalnotice> tags?
[10:39] <jsgotangco> mdke, what email is this?
[11:55] <dholbach> heya! :)
[11:55] <jsgotangco> hey dholbach 
[11:55] <jsgotangco> you seem lost
[11:55] <dholbach> lost?
[11:55] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:56] <jsgotangco> what brings you to this desert wasteland
[11:56] <dholbach> haha :)
[11:56] <dholbach> is that so?
[11:57] <jsgotangco> whats up?
[11:57] <dholbach> i wanted to ask the team's advice on http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/8595
[11:57] <dholbach> it's about gnome's user-guide
[11:58] <dholbach> i'll get an update from GNOME's cvs but i daresay it won't be enough to be up to scratch concerning 2.12
[12:00] <jsgotangco> upstream isn't updated
[12:00] <jsgotangco> there is an email a few weeks ago by Shaun McCance to have the user guide updated for 2.12
[12:00] <jsgotangco> but that was a few days after 2.12 was released
[12:01] <dholbach> ok, so you'd suggest i check for updates occasionally?
[12:01] <dholbach> do you happen to know to which list he wrote it?
[12:02] <jsgotangco> gnome-doc-list itself
[12:02] <dholbach> ok
[12:02] <dholbach> jsgotangco, well-informed as always
[12:02] <dholbach> :)
[12:02] <jsgotangco> i think the desktop guide itself is updated for 2.10
[12:03] <jsgotangco> but yelp still shows it as 2.6
[12:03] <jsgotangco> obviously the omf file isn't updated
[12:03] <dholbach> ah right
[12:03] <jsgotangco> it seems i am the only one here who actually cares for yelp
[12:04] <jsgotangco> hehe
[12:04] <jsgotangco> 2005-03-08: 2.10 (Shaun McCance)
[12:04] <jsgotangco> September 2004: GNOME 2.8 Desktop User Guide V2.8
[12:04] <dholbach> they seem to have a #docs channel
[12:04] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:04] <dholbach> i just read the "User Guide needs you"
[12:05] <jsgotangco> see
[12:05] <jsgotangco> i'd love to work upstream if i had the time
[12:05] <dholbach> yeah
[12:05] <dholbach> it's a tough job
[12:05] <dholbach> and a not-so-well-rewarded one :(
[12:06] <jsgotangco> gnome docs has been neglegted really
[12:07] <dholbach> yeah, it's really sad - they formed the best desktop system, but didn't explain it :)
[12:07] <jsgotangco> if i wasn't doing anything i'd do it myself
[12:08] <jsgotangco> but it seems even opening up the doc to the wiki isn't working
[12:09] <ajmitch> hi dholbach, you've decided to visit as well? ;)
[12:09] <dholbach> yeah :)
[12:09] <jsgotangco> lots of people seem to like visiting the desert huh
[12:09] <dholbach> haha
[12:09] <ajmitch> so much good stuff in gnome
[12:10] <ajmitch> so much that probably still needs documented
[12:10] <dholbach> i wish i could help you, but i daresay my efforts better go in elsewhere
[12:10] <dholbach> users wouldnt understand me :)
[12:10] <ajmitch> dholbach: write the sysadmin guide! :)
[12:10] <jsgotangco> dholbach, right, if i did work on gnome docs, id rather work directly to gnome and leave ubuntu docs work
[12:11] <dholbach> ajmitch: man, i better get cracking on the bugs matt assigned me
[12:11] <dholbach> ajmitch: that's of more use, i suppose
[12:11] <ajmitch> dholbach: certainly
[12:11] <dholbach> :)
[12:11] <ajmitch> dholbach: want me to look at any? :)
[12:11] <dholbach> http://tinyurl.com/drk8z - http://tinyurl.com/96e4l :)
[12:12] <dholbach> but i guess this is the wrong channel to lament about that
[12:12] <ajmitch> yeah
[12:12] <ajmitch> we'll head back to -desktop & whinge there ;)
[12:15] <jsgotangco> ok i gotta go do some groceries first
[12:17] <dholbach> have fun, jerome :)
[04:07] <segfault> hi
[04:07] <segfault> my the pt_BR translation of aboutubuntu isn't in the ubuntu-docs package?
[04:17] <segfault> err, why.
[04:17] <segfault> jbailey: are you around?
[05:23] <mdke> segfault, that has not been done yet
[05:23] <mdke> only the english version is in there to my knowledge
[05:43] <jbailey> segfault: Am now.
[05:53] <mdke> jbailey, he wanted to know how you are getting on with getting the relevant translations into the distro
[05:54] <jbailey> Right now so far I'm just updating the package manually.
[05:54] <jbailey> From whatever's committed to the branch.
[05:54] <jbailey> I need to clean it up more to remove the entity errors that are there.
[05:55] <mdke> k
[05:55] <mdke> so are the translations that are uploaded already working in Breezy?
[05:55] <jbailey> Yes, except for Tunesian and Portuguese.
[05:55] <jbailey> I tested all of the others.
[05:55] <mdke> wow
[05:56] <mdke> how come the stuff isn't in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs btw?
[05:57] <jbailey> I put them where the gnome stuff seemed happiest to have it for yelp.
[05:57] <mdke> ah ok
[05:57] <jbailey> If it's wrong, please let me know. =)
[05:57] <mdke> don't think it matters, was just curious
[05:58] <jbailey> But I just ripped apart a few other scrollkeeper docs, and the OMF files that were in there already generally pointed to those locations.
[05:58] <mdke> the faqguide is at usr/share/ubuntu-docs and the quicktour html is at /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs
[05:58] <jbailey> Part of me was thinking that I might generate the HTML files as well and still register them with doc-base.
[05:58] <mdke> ah cool
[05:58] <jbailey> Yeah.
[05:58] <jbailey> I wonder if I should move it.
[05:58] <mdke> up to you
[05:58] <mdke> by the way, i will keep updating those tarballs of translations for about-ubuntu and faqguide
[05:59] <mdke> do you want me to make some xml files manually, or do you think that script is doable?
[06:00] <jbailey> I just need the time to do it.  Do you mind doing another update?
[06:00] <jbailey> I'll ping pitti now.
[06:00] <mdke> jbailey, the latest one was last night, but we can keep doing them all the time, the key is to get the script which converts the tarballs to xml
[06:01] <mdke> jbailey, did you see my mail about that script?
[06:02] <pitti> Hi
[06:02] <jbailey> mdke: I did.
[06:02] <jbailey> Martin!
[06:02] <mdke> hi pitti 
[06:03] <mdke> jbailey, great
[06:03] <jbailey> pitti: mdke has a script for exporting the rosetta stuff and reassembling the XML.
[06:03] <mdke> erm...
[06:03] <mdke> do I?
[06:03] <jbailey> mdke: Did I misunderstand the script?
[06:03] <pitti> erm, for which context?
[06:03] <jbailey> I might be confused, it happens often.
[06:03] <mdke> ok i'll start from the beginning
[06:03] <mdke> pitti, we are translating our docs in rosetta
[06:04] <mdke> we need to convert em from po->xml and then upload to breezy
[06:04] <jbailey> Ah, no script, just instructions. =)
[06:04] <mdke> jbailey, i understood you to be offering to write such a po->xml script ;)
[06:04] <jbailey> Right. =)
[06:04] <mdke> i am incapable :D
[06:04] <pitti> ah :-)
[06:04] <jbailey> That's why I was thinking of scripts.
[06:04] <jbailey> My confusion.
[06:04] <jbailey> pitti: Is there any possibility of hooking this into the langpack exports?
[06:05] <pitti> jbailey: you mean building new XML files and build -docs packages?
[06:05] <pitti> that's certainly doable
[06:05] <jbailey> Well, I don't know if it should be new -docs packages.
[06:05] <mdke> i suppose at the worst you could make ubuntu-docs-cc and get the language selector to choose them
[06:05] <jbailey> Or something added to the langpack and just rerun scrollkeeper.
[06:06] <pitti> it doesn't fit into the current concept of the language pack builder, but it could become a separate script
[06:06] <jbailey> pitti: I think the docs are generally small enough to be just generally included.
[06:06] <pitti> jbailey: yes, right, that would be possible, too
[06:06] <pitti> jbailey: right now langpack-o-matic does not have that facility, but I'll think about a reasonably general implementation
[06:07] <pitti> is this planned for breezy?
[06:07] <mdke> heh
[06:07] <mdke> what I had in mind was pulling the po's down manually, getting a script to create the xml, and uploading them to breezy either through ubuntu-docs-cc or ubuntu-docs itself
[06:08] <jbailey> pitti: Well it's a general feature that would be lovely for breezy but if not, then not.
[06:08] <mdke> if the former (ubuntu-docs-cc), we'd need the language selector involved, i think
[06:10] <jbailey> mdke: Yeah.  But since ubuntu-docs is part of the base install, I don't see why we wouldn't just include it in the langpack directly.
[06:11] <segfault> HI!
[06:11] <mdke> jbailey, i kind of assumed we couldn't do that, but if pitti can do it, then awesome
[06:11] <segfault> what happened to pt_BR translations?
[06:11] <segfault> i don't see it in ubuntu-docs
[06:11] <jbailey> mdke: pitti is *magic*
[06:11] <mdke> segfault, possibly we haven't generated the xml file yet
[06:12] <jbailey> segfault: I don't remember seeing a pt_BR on the branch.
[06:12] <mdke> exactly
[06:12] <jbailey> segfault: There was a pt.  I didn't work, and I don't know why yet.
[06:12] <segfault> we translated everything in Rosetta.
[06:12] <mdke> segfault, we haven't created the documents yet
[06:12] <mdke> give us some time :)
[06:12] <pitti> jbailey: for starters, I'd just put the "update" script into the ubuntu-docs source packages and call it if necessary
[06:12] <pitti> jbailey: once that works, I can integrate it into langpack-o-matic proper
[06:12] <pitti> what do you think about this?
[06:12] <segfault> do i need to send it to the svn repo?
[06:13] <pitti> I think that should be doable for Breezy
[06:13] <mdke> segfault, no
[06:13] <segfault> i thought you guys were getting everything from roesetta
[06:13] <mdke> segfault, we are
[06:13] <jbailey> pitti: Sure.  I can do weekly checks to see whether or not any new translations have appeared and upload them.
[06:13] <mdke> segfault, i mean "no", as in "you don't have to send it", because we'll do it
[06:13] <segfault> sure
[06:14] <segfault> how about images?
[06:14] <jbailey> pitti: And then once we've proven the scripts, move it to the langpacks?
[06:14] <mdke> segfault, we haven't got a plan for them
[06:14] <segfault> http://www.ubuntubrasil.org/docs/about-ubuntu/about-ubuntu.pt_BR.html
[06:14] <segfault> i put a preview here, with the translated image.
[06:14] <segfault> or shouldn't i translate the default ubuntu image?
[06:15] <mdke> segfault, probably not i would say
[06:15] <mdke> although that is nice
[06:15] <pitti> jbailey: yes, that's the idea
[06:15] <jbailey> Does Rosetta handle images?
[06:15] <pitti> jbailey: then we also move the documentation to the langpack debs itself?
[06:15] <mdke> jbailey, nope
[06:15] <pitti> jbailey: do do you think it's better to upload a new autogenerated ubuntu-docs?
[06:16] <jbailey> The problem with the ubuntu-docs is then you carry baggage from language that you don't care about.
[06:16] <mdke> what about the ubuntu-docs-cc idea?
[06:18] <jbailey> mdke: I just wonder if it's worth the hassle of figuring out how to install them and such when there's already a general langpack.
[06:18] <pitti> mdke: splitting is probably too heavy
[06:18] <jbailey> The only reasoan I can think of to make it a separate package is if there's people who would unisntall just that.
[06:18] <pitti> mdke: I mean, it's not worth it
[06:18] <mdke> fair play
[06:19] <mdke> stick everything in ubuntu-docs for now is my opinion then, but I don't know much about it
[06:19] <jbailey> Matthew said it, it must be right.  I'll do that ;)
[06:19] <jbailey> =)
[06:20] <jbailey> pitti: Do we have easy access to do automated uploads, or should I do them by hand for now?
[06:20] <mdke> jbailey, so if I upload tarballs of po's from rosetta, is that script for po->xml doable?
[06:20] <jbailey> I'm assuming it would pull from a bzr branch or something?
[06:20] <pitti> jbailey: right now I do it as a special language pack user, which has its own GPG key
[06:21] <jbailey> mdke: It looks like a doable thing from the commands you gave.
[06:21] <pitti> jbailey: so I can upload 400 packages at once without typing my passphrase 
[06:21] <mdke> cool
[06:21] <jbailey> What?  No gpg-agent? =)
[06:21] <pitti> jbailey: but this key can only upload packages language-pack-*
[06:21] <jbailey> Did you arrange that with elmo or inifinity?
[06:21] <pitti> jbailey: I tried to use gpg-agent, but it doesn't work with gpg
[06:21] <jbailey> Err. =)
[06:21] <pitti> jbailey: and gpg2 immediately crashes, so I gave up and just use gnome-gpg at home
[06:21] <jbailey> 'fair nuff.
[06:22] <pitti> jbailey: anyway, I arranged that with elmo
[06:22] <pitti> jbailey: it would be easy to add the "ubuntu-docs" package to the allowed list for the langpack key
[06:22] <jbailey> pitti: Do you do it by hand right now or is it automated?
[06:22] <pitti> jbailey: uploading langpacks?
[06:22] <jbailey> Da.
[06:23] <pitti> jbailey: well, I manually have to call the process, i. e. call one script to generate the source packages
[06:23] <jbailey> 'k, so I'm not worried about it right now.
[06:23] <mdke> ok i'm gonna leave you guys to it
[06:23] <pitti> then I build some manmually, test them, then I call another script which mass-builds changes files and uploads them 
[06:23] <jbailey> I'll worry about integrated it later to protect against me getting hit by a bus.
[06:23] <mdke> jbailey, let me know how you get on by email ya?
[06:23] <jbailey> Sure. =0
[06:24] <mdke> rockin
[06:24] <pitti> jbailey: right now my gut feeling is that keeping a single "ubuntu-docs" package is the right thing as long as it stays reasonably small
[06:26] <jbailey> My only issue there is that screen shots and whatnot might inflate the package.
[06:26] <jbailey> But it's not the case right now.
[06:27] <pitti> jbailey: well, splitting later is always easy
[06:27] <pitti> for Breezy we should probably keep it as it is now
[06:27] <jbailey> Oh, definetly.
[06:28] <jbailey> Through the dapper cycle from the beginning I will to weekly uploads.
[06:28] <pitti> jbailey: we can automate that then
[06:28] <pitti> jbailey: by that time we should have the Rosetta stuff running, and I'll automate langpack-o-matic more
[06:29] <pitti> jbailey: right now it is still much manual hacking since I manually import the raw buildd output and have to babysit and care for cleanup myself
[06:29] <jbailey> Nyaah
[06:29] <jbailey> Okay, I won't inflict bits on you. =)
[06:31] <jbailey> pitti: Ooo!  On an unrelated note...
[06:31] <jbailey> pitti: How do I get this into the notification applet? =)
[06:31] <jbailey> s/this/things/
[06:31] <pitti> jbailey: just drop a file into /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/
[06:31] <pitti> jbailey: u-n will pick it up through gamin
[06:38] <jbailey> pitti: Cool, thanks.
[06:39] <jbailey> pitti: What deletes them from there after?   Just the package getting purged?
[06:39] <pitti> jbailey: yes, the package has to care for it
[06:39] <jbailey> Hmm.  So a new user on the system sees al lthe previous notifications.
[06:39] <pitti> jbailey: and depending on what you do with the notificatoin, you shuold probably generate it in the postinst instead of just shipping the file
[06:40] <pitti> jbailey: many notifications are cleaned on boot
[06:40] <jbailey> Ah, okay.
[06:40] <jbailey> this is for glibc to say after an nss upgrade that now would be a good time to reboot.
[06:40] <jbailey> So I can do that, too.
[06:40] <pitti> jbailey: yep
[06:40] <pitti> jbailey: I think mvo has a special flag for it which was designed for the kernel
[06:41] <pitti> jbailey: in case you don't have a suitable init script which could remove it
[06:42] <jbailey> Sure, but I could. =)
[06:44] <pitti> jbailey: given that we now have four packages which ask for reboot, and after a dist-upgrade it is likely that you will see all four, we should factorize them somehow
[06:44] <jbailey> pitti: Yeah.
[06:44] <jbailey> Probably not a breezy thing, though.
[06:45] <pitti> yes
[06:45] <jbailey> It would be easy enough to have a translated file in /usr/share/doc somewhere and symlink it in.
[06:45] <jbailey> And any package that wants it just adds the symlink.
[06:45] <jbailey> And a script on reboot that deletes the symlink.
[06:45] <jbailey> Then you can do an infinite number on ln -sf's. =)
[06:47] <pitti> nice idea
[06:47] <pitti> maybe tell mvo in #u-d?