[12:10] ** WARNING **: alsa_setup(): Failed to open pcm device (default): Dispositivo o recurso ocupado, cuando trato de acceder a xmms tampoco funciona mplayer se keda pegado, xine funciona pero sin audio [12:13] dexcel, are you using the esound output plugin? [12:13] I'm using alsa [12:14] dexcel, which apps don't give sound? [12:14] apps? [12:14] crimsun, note that ltsp has no sound for the thin clinets in this release... [12:15] in fact i'm thinking about disabling all sound apps in the default install and leave them only in the workstation version... [12:15] dexcel, are you using ltsp then? [12:15] (just maes no sense in edubuntu) [12:16] ltsp no [12:16] crimsun, sound would play on the server if you'd use it on the thin client... [12:16] what is it? [12:16] dexcel, which edubuntu build do you use ? [12:16] Hoary [12:17] dexcel, there is no edubuntu hoary [12:17] ogra, it'll take me a bit to adjust to all the different environments; please forgive me if my questions are initially irrelevant to certain edubuntu builds [12:17] crimsun, they arent... [12:17] xD [12:17] I dont now [12:18] I'm wrong [12:18] xD [12:18] sorry [12:18] crimsun, and i'd like to abuse your genius for dapper for getting soudd to the thin clients :) [12:18] ogra, sure :) [12:18] crimsun, do you plan to attend UBZ ? [12:18] ogra, unfortunately I can't take off work :/ [12:19] gah.... thast bad... [12:19] i'd love to develop a rocking new network sound architecture... nas seems just not approriate, but thats what most old ltsp setup use ... [12:20] crimsun, do you have an idea how our ltsp works ? [12:20] ogra, nope, trying to eek out time to look at it [12:21] its asy... [12:21] easy even... [12:21] the thin clients boot kernel and xserver from the server via tftp and nfs and drop you to an login screen... [12:22] if you log in there, the login manager establishes a ssh connection to the server and runs a gnome session there... [12:22] ok [12:23] (same as running ssh -X $(server) Xsession from a bare xserver on your PC to another pc) [12:23] so everything runs on the server... [12:23] i guess you see the problem with sound on the clients :) [12:24] ah yes. [12:24] since the only sound HW thats available or the desktop is the soundcard of the server :) [12:24] s/r/for [12:24] grr [12:24] s/or/for [12:25] s/soundcard/sound daemon/ [12:25] I'm not convinced about that ssh -X solution [12:25] it breaks quite some things.. [12:25] siretart, its what even ltsp mainline will use in future releases [12:25] they are just adopting it [12:25] skole too [12:26] I assume because of better performance, yes? [12:26] its a big improvement over the current ltsp [12:26] nope [12:26] in fact its a bit slower [12:27] siretart, but you know how evil xhost and unencrypted tcp X connections are [12:28] one of the biggest probs in school environments (at least thats what i was told at the kole summit i attended) is security [12:28] I know [12:28] s/kole/skole [12:28] ah. okay [12:28] ogra: they told you that in Norway? [12:28] if you do exams and tests with 14 year old script kiddies, be surethey know how to sniff the traffic of the neighbor ;) [12:28] in that case, it's rubbish [12:29] it might be a problem, but far from the biggest one [12:29] so we need a network transparent sound architecture, which works across ssh sessions.. tough.. [12:29] magnon, they didnt say *the* biggest ... one o the biggest [12:29] ogra: I still don't really agree [12:29] siretart, that'd be cool... [12:29] a problem, which is behind many [12:30] hmm, gstreamer has network streaming, but I've not tested it [12:30] gstreamer is a viable solution, I hope [12:30] siretart, but tht would require a ssh server on the client... which again isnt really nice [12:30] crimsun, it should be tunneled and encrypted network streaming :) [12:31] it shouldn't be hard to hack up a somewhat encrypted gst pipeline either, if it's not already done [12:31] ogra: has a lower level solution been thought of? [12:31] in the terms of IPSec [12:31] etc. [12:31] magnon, thats what i'm searching for for dapper [12:31] that would solve many a problem [12:31] as low as possible but also as secure as possible [12:32] not that LTSP shouldn't seek sleeker solutions to many things [12:32] the handling of client devices is godawful [12:32] and by no means secure [12:32] yup, thats another task to solve in dapper [12:32] we kept the hard things for dapper ;) [12:32] usb device onto desktop and such [12:32] actually, I'd hope it to be as transparent as possible [12:33] local devices, local sound are the biggest ltsp goals we have thert [12:33] what happens if you plug in a usb stick in the thin client? [12:33] not much :P [12:33] nothing [12:34] you can set up stuff so you get a samba mount to it [12:34] ah, sure, because of that ssh 'solution' [12:34] but if you plug it in on the server all users see it :) [12:34] siretart, nope [12:34] siretart, because of the ltsp solution... [12:34] ja [12:34] its not different in the original ltsp [12:35] it has alsways been a problem... [12:36] thast why we didnt target it for this release... it requires a good thinking and new ideas [12:36] I'm wondering if HAL could play a role [12:37] siretart, there is no big difference in functionality between the ltsp solutions... be it the old or our ltsp... [12:37] magnon: you would need to make hal network transparent.. quite tough.. [12:37] magnon, you thats my idea... [12:37] a tunneld dbus connection... [12:37] running the hal backend on the thin client, tunneling it to the server and using it there on the desktop [12:37] and how to access block devices over the net? [12:38] ogra: does HAL have any permission infrastructure? [12:38] siretart: would be about the same with HAL... if HAL first works, it should be easy to adapt to more stuff [12:38] siretart, thats also only doable through weird hack in both environments [12:38] magnon, nope, but dbus ;) [12:38] ogra: aha [12:39] but in any case it looks like we cant avoid running a ssh server on the client :/ [12:39] hmm [12:39] it would be solved with another lower level solution [12:40] I'd say IPSec should be more optimised for sustained transfer rates too [12:40] kernel access to the client over the net ? [12:40] *shudder* [12:40] yeah, isn't that cute? :) [12:40] :P [12:40] magnon: did you really deploy ipsec in a comparable environment yet? [12:40] siretart: No [12:40] :) [12:40] I'm just thinking it should be possible [12:41] its a beast [12:41] in what way? [12:41] to configure it. been there, done that [12:41] and in what way is it more of a bestial solution than anything else of the ltsp nightmare? :P [12:41] i think sshd is the way to go... tunneling dbus and audio streams through it... mounting local devices via sftp... [12:42] ogra: session suspend should also be thought of - there's been a tiny bit of work in that department [12:42] ogra: how to unmount with sftp connections? [12:42] that's tricky [12:42] you'd need to unmount usb sticks and such [12:42] hows the xss doing ogra? [12:42] thats a hal job [12:42] FAT for instance behaves badly [12:43] shaga, with a little luck i'm done after the running build [12:43] oh, thats good news :) [12:43] low level mounting should be done by hal like we do it currently in ubuntu [12:44] oh just great [12:44] mounting on FS level can be done via sftp [12:44] running out of battery and forgot my charger :P === pitux [n=pitux@208-201-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #edubuntu [12:44] now you need to get both to play together (maybe via hal too) [12:44] ah well [12:44] goodnight [12:44] night magnon [12:45] siretart, unmounting should be easy if you send the commands through a tunneled dbus connection to the clients hal [12:46] indeed this binds us very much on hal and dbus... as long as KDE doesnt use it, KDE desktops will be a no go ... [12:47] will think about it [12:47] need some sleep now. gn8 [12:48] night === FerS [n=fernando@201.250.17.46] has joined #edubuntu === crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #edubuntu === FerS [n=fernando@201.250.17.46] has left #edubuntu [] [02:06] http://dome.seamk.fi/~o0200231/farmsluts_300.mov the best short video I've ever seen :p [02:07] comedy === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #edubuntu [] === macgyver2 [n=eric@unaffiliated/macgyver2] has joined #edubuntu === FerS [n=fernando@201.250.17.46] has joined #edubuntu === ajmitch_ [n=ajmitch@port162-53.ubs.maxnet.co.nz] has joined #edubuntu === crimsun_ [n=crimsun@66.248.140.183] has joined #edubuntu === macgyver2 is now known as mac2|asleep === magnon_ [n=magnon@cD908888B.sdsl.catch.no] has joined #edubuntu === magnon_ is now known as magnon === crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #edubuntu === magnon [n=magnon@photogeeks/magnon] has joined #edubuntu === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.121.19.97] has joined #edubuntu === yvesC [n=yves@81.56.207.189] has joined #edubuntu === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-156-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu [08:47] morning [08:48] highvoltage: thanks for the awesom music - I managed to run around the common twice last night :) [08:51] JaneW: isn't that a dangerous area? [08:52] bbl [08:54] highvoltage: nope, I think it used to be when the grass was over 6 feet high, but it's kept short now, and there are plenty of ppl around. I wouldn't recommend venturing into the middle of the common alone at night, but the perimieter seems perfectly safe. === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #edubuntu === jsg_ [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #edubuntu [09:20] Hi all, just a question : [09:20] I guess you all have read about this : laptop.media.mit.edu [09:20] anyone knows which distirb is going to be installed on it? [09:21] edubuntu ? ;-) [09:22] "MIT will work with a small number of companies of complementary skills to develop a fully working and manufactured laptop (50,000 to 100,000 units) in fewer than 12 months, with an eye on building about 100 million to 200 million units by the following year" [09:22] that will be "quiet a nice visibility" for the distrib... [09:23] hi guim [09:23] hi JaneW [09:23] you can contact Mako for more info\ [09:24] he has just left the formal employ of Canonical to work at MIT with the guy running this project [09:24] nice! [09:24] he is still very involved with Ubuntu and is part of the foundation and heads up the Community Council [09:24] mako@ubuntu.com [09:25] i see who is mako, actually i met him in france and he allowed me to contact/find you some months ago === jsg_ [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #edubuntu [09:26] so if mako is involved in this, do you think that those 100$ laptop are going to be installed with ubuntu ? [09:27] "we are living in a small world" ;-) [09:30] mako is involved with it [09:31] guim, most probably debian :) [09:31] not necessarily ubuntu [09:32] ok [09:34] guim, the key here is mass production [09:34] I guess so [09:35] 1 Gb storage is not a lot at all, it won't be even possible to install a lot of software [09:35] guim, sure if it had basic stuff [09:36] students don't need graphics intensive stuff in te first place [09:36] yes, but how big is openoffice 2 once installed? [09:37] the linux itself with gnome/kde [09:37] then some "educative" programs like gcompris or others, that is also a lot of images, maybe sounds [09:38] 1 gb will be really very fastly complete! [10:29] guim, jsgotangco red hat is partnering for the $100 laptop [10:29] mmm, ok [10:30] nice [10:32] thus it is likely to be a gnome desktop [10:32] might be a good candidate for Ubuntu Lite === JaneW 's first PC had a 20MB HDD and 1M RAM [10:33] the machine is actualy fairly beefy [10:33] 500mhz will run gnome just fine === jsgotangco actually had a trs80 === Burgundavia remembers playing simcity and 7 citites of gold on his grandfathers commodore64 === JaneW 's dad got this thing called a DURANGO, gosh must have been in 1980 or so, was the first computer I tried - no graphics even [10:39] hehe, I found it http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=939 [10:39] ran at 5Mhz === jsgotangco was taught with an abacus during early childhood no need for computers bleahhh [10:40] jsgotangco: hehe [10:41] seriously... [10:42] we did have an abacus, we just had little cubes that could connect to each other to make a tower, for working out sums. [10:42] I started teaching my 5 y/o 'sums' the other day [10:42] he corrected me and told me it's called 'mathematics'! [10:42] I guess I don't need to teach him anything [10:43] haha [10:44] may daughter doesn't like her toy laptop, she prefers using a real computer sheeshhh === JaneW son with take the laptop - he begged me for one [10:53] I thought they were probably pretty limited and not worth it === Burgundavia is not planning to have any kids, and thus avoid the whole "sharing with kids" issue [10:54] yes [10:54] Burgundavia, bleah [10:54] you're missing the whole point of existence [10:54] I prefer not to think that point of existance is the creation of more little monsters [10:54] the chinese say to gain immortality you need to do 3 things [10:55] 1.) plant a tree [10:55] 2.) write a book [10:55] check [10:55] nope [10:55] 3.) have children [10:55] 4.) have lots of money to get frozen when you die of cancer [10:56] 4. is the western view [10:56] and doesnt work at the moment [10:56] I am sorry I was born in Western country [10:58] do people actually pay to get frozen [10:58] hehe [10:59] cryogenics [10:59] it's cheaper to freeze just your head === Burgundavia has an interview tomorrow morning!! [10:59] it can be attached to a different body when you are thawed [11:03] JaneW, yuck [11:04] ;) [11:04] attach my head to fabio's body [11:04] not fabbione [11:14] LOL [11:14] fabio is creepy! === pere_gone is now known as pere [11:26] might be interesting to the people on this channel. :) [11:27] JaneW, any idea how this works: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/program [11:27] jsgotangco: no not really - contact silbs === JaneW doing monthy report atm... [11:29] heh === magnon [n=magnon@photogeeks/magnon] has joined #edubuntu [12:00] w 7 [12:00] uhm. === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.121.19.97] has joined #edubuntu === ogra [n=ogra@p5089CF36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [01:10] pere, ping [01:10] hey ogra [01:10] hi :) === magnon ponders a chronicle about OSS/edu after this chronicle about Belarus is done [01:11] yay for several organisations to hide beneath :P === JaneW is off to see the printers and will try pop in later, but might not make it back in time. (going away for w/e). [01:11] mail me or call on mobile if you need me [01:11] have fun [01:12] thanks [01:12] bye [01:12] ogra: pong [01:12] bye [01:12] JaneW, enjoy nature ;) [01:12] ogra: thanks - I love it [01:12] pere, mdz forwarded me your mail with the /etc/eport changes etc... [01:12] export even [01:13] hi all :) [01:13] pere, you know that we have a udeb in ubuntu to build the chroot from cd before first reboot on install ?` [01:13] ogra: no, I didn't know that. [01:13] ogra: why solve it at that point? [01:13] it avoids the need of an online connection [01:14] hey ajmitch_ :) [01:15] pere, else deboostrap needs an online connection or you have to do odd things like generation a Packages.gz for /var/cache/apt/archives [01:15] *generating [01:15] ogra: are you sure? I would expect my approach would work just fine if one added ltsp-server to the list of packages to install from within d-i. === ajmitch_ decided he just had to lurk in yet another channel [01:16] pere, deboostrap needs a Packages.gz or any kind of real archive for ltsp-build-client... [01:16] yes, and this is on the CD. [01:17] debootstrap can run just fine using a CD. === ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089FF2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [01:25] hmm, did i mention I LOVE MY PROVIDER ! [01:25] grrr [01:25] pere... guess you didnt get my last sentences [01:25] yes, it does that with the udeb [01:25] it didnt work with the postinst approach i tried... [01:25] when do you install ltsp-server ? from base-config or before reboot ? [01:25] mdz wanted to use the chached contents from /var/cache/apt/archives originally... [01:25] (speeds up a lot, but will require lots of changes to the script) [01:32] I planned to do it from base-config, but did not test this yet. [01:32] I planned to do it similarly to the way we install lessdisks, from base-config using the CD. [01:33] when installing from CD, isn't the content in the apt cache just symlinks to the CD? [01:33] but that requires to ask the user to insert the CD again... [01:33] nope [01:33] the last thing d-i does is copying all packages to /var/cache/apt/archives [01:33] (at least in ubuntu) [01:34] right. I'm not sure if that happens in debian. [01:34] aha [01:34] ok, so I start to understand the constraints you are working under. :) [01:35] then you should install it before reboot :) [01:35] yes, we have it a bit easier *g* [01:35] what is the name of the udeb source? URL? [01:35] ltsp-client-builder [01:35] wait a sec [01:36] http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/ltsp-client-builder/ [01:36] it still needs some love for the progress reporting, but registrs in he installer menu as separate option [01:38] you might find the script used to install lessdisks interesting. [01:39] will have a look [01:39] i'm finally also subscribed to ltsp-devel [01:39] ogra_: great. I read it using gmane.org personally. [01:40] my next big goal is to generate the dhcp.conf dynamically... i need to solve that before release [01:40] adding mac-addresses, you mean? [01:41] nope === ajmitch_ adds moodle back onto to the 'tomorrow' queue & wanders off to bed :) [01:41] generating the file in /etc/ltsp dynamically so dhcp-server can start immediately after install [01:42] with a debconf question (supressed in ubuntu) to which interface to bind to [01:43] right. [01:43] grabbing the ip range from ethX, asking for GW and range for the thin clients [01:43] so it will be preseedable... [01:44] night ajmitch_ === jinty [n=jinty@205.134.224.215] has joined #edubuntu === apokryphos [i=[U2FsdGV@67.15.185.40] has joined #edubuntu === KingBahamut [n=bahamut@c-24-98-229-28.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #edubuntu === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #edubuntu === Seveas [n=seveas@ksl403-uva-132.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #edubuntu === mac2|asleep is now known as macgyver2 === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu === Gand [n=Gand@81-208-84-206.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #edubuntu [03:11] hi all === magnon [n=magnon@photogeeks/magnon] has joined #edubuntu [03:16] I need a DB, have I to install MySQL or PostgreSQL? [03:17] depends on your needs ;) [03:17] for simplicity's sake, MySQL === ogra [n=ogra@p5089FC48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [03:20] thank. But I see that Postgresql is yet installed on edubuntu [03:21] I know how to manage Mysql, but I wonder if I can use Postgresql as it is installed yet [03:22] sure you can :) [03:22] it was to have not 2 DB on the machine [03:22] how I can? [03:22] then remove it, its easy [03:23] for example, there is a root password to set as in MySQL? [03:23] nope [03:23] postgres runs as the user postgres [03:23] how I start Postgresql? [03:24] postgres is much more scalable than mysql and is the one we support by default in ubuntu [03:24] it starts automatically on boot... [03:24] you can stop it with "sudo /etc/init.d/postgresql-8.0 start" [03:25] (or stop it with stop...restart with restart) [03:25] it has a sql console similar to oracle... [03:25] some CMS ask user and pw of database to connect to [03:25] (use the psql command) [03:26] there are some Administrator tools fot postgre as for mysql? [03:26] its the one you have given it... by default there is no DB... we're just fixing moodle to create the initial DB on install [03:27] sure [03:28] in "add applications" I find only a MySQL adminstrator, not a postgres one [03:28] you know, I'm a GUI (graphical user interface) monkey :) [03:28] you can try phppgadmin [03:29] its similar to phpmyadmin [03:29] anyway I succed starting apache and PHP :) [03:29] now only DB left [03:30] i was just told pgadmin3 is the best gui tool for postgres so far [03:30] but you really dont need to stick with postgres if you dont like it [03:31] If I wish to install moodle, what I've to do for DB user and pw? postgre/my pw? [03:31] Gand, btw, our postgres maintainer is pitti in #ubuntu-devel he can give more detailed answers :) [03:32] Gand, nothing with the (soon to be fixed) moodle package we will ship [03:32] it will create everything automatically for you... [03:32] thank, I wait :) [03:32] so you can start through right away :) [03:32] for a dummy like me :) nice [03:33] thats the atrget of edubuntu... make it as easy as we can for users ;) [03:33] *target [03:33] This is why I'm using edubuntu :) [03:34] thank ogra I've to go to now, I'm on late to get my son from school [03:34] see you thank === Orbman [n=orbman@85-210-172-77.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #edubuntu === Yagisan [n=jamie@220-245-252-194-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #edubuntu [04:01] Hi ogra - beaten xss into submission yet ? [04:02] yup... [04:02] excellent [04:02] you'll actually get some sleep now ? [04:02] I love the new login after lock up :p [04:03] nope, not much sleep for me... [04:03] i'll have to finish edubuntu ... [04:03] i lost 10 workdays through the screensaver... unplanned [04:04] ouch [04:04] I started my upgrade to breezy today [04:04] but as I was tired i burned i386 instead of amd64 [04:04] fun [04:05] I noticed that right after I blew away the system === Yagisan is doing happy happy dance now lvm on raid works with ubuntu [04:19] ok [04:19] time to go see dream theater :) === john_b [n=john@38.235.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #edubuntu [04:26] Hello, I'm trying to get stand-alone box to route through Edubuntu box. Not having any success. I can ping the interface but cannot ping past it. I have enabled ip_forward. Any suggestions? [04:27] john_b, you use ltsp ? [04:27] yes [04:27] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT [04:27] voila :) [04:27] thank you :-) [04:28] i'll merge that to the edubuntu wiki for release i think :) === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu [04:35] ogra: I had a look at the udeb. minor nitpick: [04:35] go ahead :) [04:35] ogra: I suggest renaming 'LTSP chroot environment' to 'LTSP client environment'. [04:35] yup, noted, will do.... [04:36] the text was Kamions suggestion [04:36] thats all already ? [04:37] yes. and I suspect some medium(or same as the main menu)-priority note should give feedback if the CD is missing so no ltsp installation will take place. [04:37] I have just read the source so far. :) [04:38] ogra: I have no issue with the thin clients. I can't seem to figure out how to enable server as a gateway for regular boxes. [04:38] ogra: actually, I believe the check for the CD should be moved into a test to decide if the menu entry should appear at all. [04:38] does everything in the 'LTSP client environment' get executed on the client ? [04:38] thanks though [04:38] hmm, i havent thought about a case where the CD isnt available, since we use the udeb in a place where its sure the CD is mounted... [04:38] I'm reading (/usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client) [04:39] Yagisan: ltspb-build-client is executed on the server, and build a installation to be exectued on the clients. [04:40] so - everything in the chroot it makes - gets run in the client right ? [04:40] ogra: are you using baz for this package? I want to upload it into debian. any view on how we could cooperate about it? [04:40] john_b, if you use the regular boxes in the same network as the thin clients, that should be trivial... [04:40] (I tired so I'm a bit slow today) [04:40] pere, i still suck with baz... [04:41] ogra: is there a version control repository for this package? [04:41] (mdz is a bit concerned about that..) [04:41] nope [04:41] i'll have to set it up for ltsp anyway... [04:41] so stay tuned and feel free to take the source package until then [04:42] i wanted to merge the udeb into the main ltsp source later [04:42] why later? I'm all for merging it into the debian package now. :) [04:43] I think I might be able to add support for i386/amd64 specific chroots to /usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client [04:43] it doesn't seem to hard (famous last words ...) [04:43] getting debootstrap to cross-build will be hard. [04:44] would probably need qemu for other arches [04:44] pere, because i dont touch the package, thats mdz's domain.... i need to hae a proper baz archive he can merge first [04:44] i'll set it up this weekend and add the script for dhcp.conf generation [04:45] ogra: ok, so if I add it to my ubuntufixes branch, he would merge it? [04:45]