[12:02] <mjg59> sivang: Hrm. The default settings have to work with the default driver
[12:03] <Nafallo> jordi: AFAIK he downloads the whole pack and merge them by hand.
[12:03] <sivang> mjg59: I have the proprierity driver installed. Is it the default driver?
[12:03] <mjg59> Nope
[12:03] <mjg59> nv is default
[12:03] <mjg59> If nv works without POST_VIDEO, then we can go with that
[12:03] <sivang> mjg59: I see, so I guess it works with it, it even worked splendid with the prop. drivers,
[12:03] <mjg59> sivang: Sorry, I don't quite follow
[12:03] <sivang> mjg59: however I don't recall the settings invloved.
[12:04] <mjg59> sivang: Did you need to change the settings for the propriatory driver to work?
[12:04] <hno73> Riddell: I've uploaded a tarball for you: http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/kubuntu/current/
[12:04] <sivang> mjg59: yes
[12:04] <mjg59> Ok
[12:04] <mjg59> And with those changed settings, does the nv driver work?
[12:04] <hno73> Riddell: also see: http://www.omma.org.uk/files/winfoss-shots/Kubuntu01.png
[12:04] <Kamion> jordi: I try to keep in sync with Debian as much as I can (up to upstream version freeze); where I can't, I've recently started inefficiently merging some translations from Rosetta
[12:04] <Kamion> jordi: it's not anywhere near as slick as the upstream d-i translation process, which is why I'm increasingly trying to get our strings back into sync with Debian's
[12:06] <Kamion> 22:59 < CIA-2> debian-installer: joeyh * r31126 packages/partman/partman-base/ (debian/changelog visual.d/bootable visual.d/method):
[12:06] <Kamion> oh, hooray
[12:06] <Kamion> 22:59 < CIA-2> debian-installer: * Removed all the fancy utf-8 symbols that noonone understood (the
[12:06] <Kamion> 22:59 < CIA-2> debian-installer:  tamagushi, black smiley, white smiley, and lightening bolt).
[12:06] <Kamion> 22:59 < CIA-2> debian-installer:  Just use the same letter abbrevs used in non-utf mode.
[12:07] <Nafallo> Kamion: what do you do when we improve strings in Rosetta?
[12:07] <Nafallo> hmm, missed him
[12:08] <Riddell> hno73: yeah, got your e-mail, thanks so much
[12:08] <dilinger> have you guys made plans for the post-breezy kernel yet
[12:08] <dilinger> ?
[12:08] <Kamion> Nafallo: I totally ignore them where possible and ask you to go upstream, if they're strings that are already in Debian
[12:08] <Riddell> hno73: now I just need to grab my flatmates' laptop so I can try it out
[12:08] <Kamion> I refuse to end up acting as go-between for patches to translations into a language I don't speak
[12:09] <Kamion> 21:10 < Kamion> Nafallo: would it be possible for you to work with the d-i Swedish translation team to get your changes in there? I'm incorporating your changes to Ubuntu-specific strings, but the problem with
[12:09] <Kamion>           taking changes to generic strings (ones in both Debian and Ubuntu) in Ubuntu is that I'm then stuck later with having to merge changes in a language I don't speak
[12:09] <hno73> Riddell: cool, enjoy :)
[12:09] <Kamion> 21:10 < Kamion> Nafallo: (as it happens I can make out Swedish well enough, but usually not at the level of being able to decide which string out of two alternatives is better ...)
[12:09] <Riddell> hno73: is the 700MB a final decision for the live CD?
[12:10] <Nafallo> Kamion: hmm, I should be able to work with him, yes :-).
[12:12] <Nafallo> Kamion: but the whole everything seems to be a mess when it comes to the installer. I find the same string i templates on Rosetta.
[12:12] <Nafallo> s/i/in\ x/
[12:21] <hno73> Riddell: I guess for Kubuntu that decision is much up to you, no? 
[12:21] <mjg59> jdub: Still around?
[12:22] <hno73> Riddell: I can easily remove stuff if you need me to
[12:23] <Riddell> hno73: I'd like to keep in line with ubuntu
[12:24] <mjg59> Riddell: Did you have any joy with klaptopdaemon?
[12:24] <hno73> Riddell: OK. So in that case, I don't think the decision is final. Kamion, mdz?
[12:27] <Riddell> mjg59: yes, just need to tidy up my changes, top of my todo list for tomorrow
[12:28] <mjg59> Riddell: Rock, thanks!
[12:28] <Riddell> mjg59: what do you think I should set the default action for "almost no battery life left" to?  hibernate?
[12:29] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:38] <nomed> hi all .. just a question
[12:38] <nomed> how can i unpatch the ubuntu kernel source ..? i need to remove just the vesafb patch 
[12:43] <mjg59> nomed: Why?
[12:43] <nomed> it seems the breezy kernel config  it just perfect for my livecd ..
[12:44] <nomed> but i need  to enable the bootsplash
[12:44] <nomed> "need"
[12:44] <mjg59> Heh
[12:44] <mjg59> Get the kernel source, edit debian/patches/00list, remove the line that references the vesafb patch, fakeroot debian/rules binary
[12:45] <mjg59> You may need to edit the configs to change vesafb to Y rather than M
[12:46] <nomed> ok mjg59 thanks
[12:50] <lifeless> mjg59: what do I need to do to get my hibernate key supported ?
[12:50] <lifeless> mjg59: oh, and hi :)
[12:50] <mjg59> lifeless: What sort of machine is it?
[12:50] <bddebian> Hey mjg59 or Riddell, you guys know anythying about xmkmf? :-)
[12:50] <lifeless> mjg59: dell X1, I have given you the keys list thrice
[12:50] <mjg59> bddebian: The day I know anything about xmkmf is the day I die
[12:50] <mjg59> lifeless: Should work now, except X will probably get confused
[12:50] <bddebian> Damn that seems to be everyones answer :-)
[12:51] <lifeless> mjg59: oh cool. I'll try after todays update
[12:51] <mjg59> bddebian: There's a reason for that
[12:51] <Riddell> bddebian: what's the problem?
[12:51] <lifeless> mjg59: what sort of X confusion should I expect? Other than the current screen saver fuckage
[12:51] <bddebian> Riddell: I think our .tmpl files are wrong
[12:52] <mjg59> "X becomes unusable when you press the hibernate key"
[12:52] <lifeless> cool
[12:52] <lifeless> what causes that ?
[12:52] <bddebian> It's looking for X binaries in /usr/X11R6/bin instead of /usr/bin
[12:52] <Riddell> bddebian: have you asked daniels?
[12:52] <mjg59> The key sends a key down, but no key up
[12:53] <lifeless> sweet mother of god
[12:53] <lifeless> does stand by do the same thing ?
[12:53] <mjg59> So if autorepeat is on, the universe ends
[12:53] <mjg59> No, standby doesn't
[12:53] <mjg59> We've hacked around that, but I don't know if Daniel has uploaded it yet
[12:53] <bddebian> Riddell: I haven't seen him and he usually ignores me :-)
[12:54] <lifeless> mjg59: man, serious breakage. I take it someone else has a x1 to have given this info ?
[12:54] <mjg59> lifeless: It seems to be the same on all Dells
[12:54] <mjg59> I've confirmed it with mine
[12:54] <lifeless> mjg59: but this is a samsung
[12:54] <lifeless> mjg59: ;0
[12:54] <mjg59> Yes
[12:54] <lifeless> ok
[12:54] <lifeless> I'll try and report
[12:54] <mjg59> But it conforms to the Dell spec
[12:54] <mjg59> It's possible that you'll need to nuke your gnome config
[12:55] <lifeless> say its not so
[12:55] <mjg59> It doesn't seem to deal well with new shortcut settings being added
[12:56] <nomed> mjg59, i can't find the debian dir in linux-source-2.6.12 .. :/
[12:56] <mjg59> nomed: How did you get the source code?
[12:57] <nomed> do you mean to download a vanilla kernel and remove that patch from linux-pathces
[12:57] <nomed> apt-get ..
[12:57] <nomed> dpkg -L linux-source-2.6.12
[12:57] <nomed> /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.12.tar.bz2 <--
[12:58] <mjg59> apt-get source linux-image-2.6.12-9.386
[12:58] <mjg59> apt-get source linux-image-2.6.12-9-386
[12:58] <mjg59> even
[01:03] <Riddell> bddebian: what program is crazy enough to use xmkmf?
[01:03] <bddebian> Riddell: xfonts-jmk
[01:39] <mjg59> mdz: If possible, I'd like to be able to make acpi-support depend on radeontool and smartdimmer (both tiny packages)
[01:56] <elmo> tseng: ?
[01:57] <tseng> elmo: hm, yes?
[01:59] <elmo> tseng: why did you upload myththemes rather than requesting a sync?
[02:00] <tseng> elmo: i didnt realize you could sync from random sources
[02:01] <tseng> elmo: noted
[02:03] <elmo> I can sync from anything with a Sources
[02:05] <daniels> elmo is the syncmastah
[02:05] <slomo> elmo: did you already remove eclipse from pas? doko fixed it for amd64 and powerpc afaik
[02:05] <daniels> he lives and breathes for syncs
[02:08] <bddebian> daniels: !!!
[02:08] <bddebian> daniels: Do you know xmkmf?
[02:09] <daniels> ... depends on why you're asking.
[02:09] <bddebian> daniels: Do you know if our .tmpl files are wrong?
[02:09] <daniels> in the sense that they have built our monolithic tree virtually untouched for about 18 years now, probably not.
[02:09] <daniels> why?
[02:10] <bddebian> In trying to build xfonts-jmk it's looking for bdftopcf in /usr/X11R6/bin and not /usr/bin
[02:10] <bddebian> And it appears to be getting that after running xmkmf
[02:11] <daniels> mmm, possibly
[02:11] <daniels> but that would be in X11.rules rather than in .tmpl
[02:12] <daniels> try -DXBinDir=/usr/bin
[02:28] <bddebian> daniels: Will do, thx
[02:30] <bddebian> daniels: Sorry, I know dumb question but add that to the xmkmf line?
[02:38] <bddebian> daniels: Well the command seemed to work but it still reverted to /usr/X11R6/bin/bdftopcf :-(
[02:39] <bddebian>  /etc/X11/config/cf/X11.rules:41: warning: "XBinDir" redefined
[02:47] <bddebian> Damnit, it appears I've lost him again..
[02:54] <daniels> try -4 of xmkmf
[02:55] <bddebian> daniels: From Debian?
[02:56] <desrt> daniels; who did you say fields l-r-m these days?
[02:58] <daniels> desrt: infinity-ish
[02:58] <desrt> heh.  thx :)
[02:59] <crimsun> mjg59: missing fi on line 26 of /etc/init.d/acpi-support if it hasn't already been reported
[03:01] <daniels> bddebian: just uploaded to breezy about 45min ago
[03:03] <mjg59> crimsun: D'oh. Sorry.
[03:03] <mjg59> 0.42 uploaded
[03:04] <crimsun> mjg59: great, thanks :)
[03:04] <bddebian> daniels: OK great thx, I'll try it
[04:06] <bddebian> daniels: That worked, thanks again!!
[04:07] <daniels> bddebian: no worries
[04:16] <wakeless> hmmm, I have found a bug in the preview release of Breezy, it's in Bugzilla and I'm not sure what else I need to do to help.
[04:16] <wakeless> could someone point me in the right direction please?
[04:17] <daniels> if it's in bugzilla, it'll be fixed before the final release if it can be
[04:28] <bddebian> Heh
[04:29] <bddebian> How/where should SONAMES be derived in packages?  libmetakit is getting it wrong.
[04:30] <Keybuk> derived from what?
[04:31] <bddebian> It creates the symbolic link:  libmetakit4.so -> libmetakit4-2.4.9.3.so  but libmetakit4-2.4.9.3.so isn't built
[04:31] <Keybuk> odd
[04:32] <daniels> probably the debian packaging
[04:33] <bddebian> Well the .install files do look a little odd
[04:35] <bddebian> libmetakit2.4.9.3.install has "debian/tmp/usr/lib/libmk4-*.so  usr/lib"  but the -dev.install doesn't.  Is that right?
[04:36] <daniels> you'd be wanting to look at .links
[04:38] <bddebian> Even weirder.  There is no .links except for python-metakit.links
[04:45] <bddebian> Wow, sometimes I can actually fix shit..
[05:00] <lamont-away> daniels: ??
[05:01] <lamont-away> ohj
[05:01] <lamont-away> nm
[05:01] <daniels> lamont-away: -73 just for hppa?
[05:01] <lamont-away> well, um, I checked first...
[05:02] <lamont-away> 27530 Segmentation fault      chroot $ROOT apt-get -y install $LIST </dev/null
[05:02] <lamont-away> hrmpf
[05:28] <mae> Hey, what editors do you guys use for source code.. I like vim but it is not very easy to integrate into windowing env.. cut and paste is at best clunky.
[05:28] <mae> not within the prog mind you, but between other apps
[05:29] <bddebian> nano.  What else is there? :-)
[05:29] <mae> bah
[05:29] <mae> :)
[05:29] <mae> i'll take vim to nano any day
[05:29] <mae> GUI editors?
[05:31] <calc> coughs at nano
[05:32] <bddebian> mae: Kate? ;-P
[05:32] <calc> mae: vim-gtk?
[05:35] <ajmitch> bddebian: emacs, of course
[05:35] <ajmitch> but let's not have a riot
[05:35] <lifeless> ajmitch: editors, not kitchen sinks
[05:35] <lifeless> ;0
[05:36] <bddebian> lifeless: Amen brutha ;-)
[05:36] <mae> is there a gnome emacs?
[05:36] <lifeless> sortof
[05:36] <mae> or is it as lame as vim-gtk
[05:36] <lifeless> there is an xemacs with handwaving gtk support
[05:37] <daniels> yawn, editor wars
[05:37] <lifeless> daniels: so, I need help filing a bug
[05:37] <lifeless> daniels: I've no idea how to effectively document what I'm experiencing
[05:38] <daniels> lifeless: ... just blame it on gtk and seb will fix it?
[05:38] <infinity> lifeless : Videos?
[05:38] <lifeless> daniels: heh.
[05:38] <daniels> either that or buy me a flight up to sydney for debsig and I'll fix it then.
[05:38] <lifeless> infinity: maybe. if I close the lid and open it again, the screen stays dark
[05:39] <daniels> (don't forget to buy me beer and a steak sandwich too.)
[05:39] <lifeless> presumably something is alive, but the only thing I can get to work is the standby button
[05:39] <infinity> lifeless : I meant "take videos to document it".
[05:39] <daniels> lifeless: when you run xset dpms force off followed by xset dpms force on, does it come back?
[05:39] <lifeless> daniels: as root or as me ? I'll open a console in preparation
[05:39] <daniels> lifeless: as you -- it requires access to $DISPLAY.
[05:39] <lifeless> it works when it comes back from standby FWIW
[05:39] <daniels> uh
[05:40] <daniels> oh, okay
[05:40] <daniels> yeah, try the xset thing
[05:40] <lifeless> ok, trying. brb
[05:40] <lifeless> xset dpms force off brought it back 
[05:40] <lifeless> I didn't tree the 'force on' line
[05:40] <lifeless> s/tree/try
[05:44] <daniels> er
[05:44] <daniels> if xset dpms force off brings it off, something's wrong
[05:44] <daniels> so if you run force off, then force on, in a normal session, does it work okay?
[05:45] <lifeless> xset dpms force off turns the display off
[05:45] <lifeless> when I hit the up arrow to edit the line (which I can't see), it comes back on by itself
[05:51] <infinity> I wonder if I'm the only one who wishes the new xscreensaver dialog had the time displayed on it, so I didn't have to login to see what time it is..
[05:51] <daniels> interesting
[05:52] <lifeless> doing force on has no apparent effect
[05:52] <daniels> mjg59: wake up
[05:57] <bob2> infinity: me too
[06:28] <\sh> infinity / lamont: please give-back rrdcollect-0.2.3 to the buildds, thx
[07:55] <bob2> ajmitch: monodevelop should be working in breezy, right?
[07:56] <ajmitch> bob2: yes, scream if it doesn't
[07:56] <bob2> ** (/usr/lib/mono/1.0/mcs.exe:7262): WARNING **: The following assembly referenced from /usr/lib/mono/1.0/mcs.exe could not be loaded:
[07:56] <bob2>      Assembly:   System    (assemblyref_index=1)
[07:56] <bob2>      Version:    1.0.5000.0
[07:56] <bob2>      Public Key: b77a5c561934e089
[07:56] <ajmitch> and.or file bugs with the problems
[07:56] <ajmitch> umm
[07:56] <bob2> The assembly was not found in the Global Assembly Cache, a path listed in the MONO_PATH environment variable, or in the location of the executing assembly (/usr/lib/mono/1.0).
[07:56] <bob2> tho mcs givs a similar error
[07:56] <ajmitch> that's the main class library
[07:57] <ajmitch> and mono-classlib-1.0 is installed, right?
[07:57] <bob2> yes
[07:58] <ajmitch> ls -la /usr/lib/mono/1.0/System.dll
[07:59] <bob2> hm, doesn't exist
[07:59] <ajmitch> hm, that's a worry
[07:59] <ajmitch> ls -la /usr/lib/mono/gac/System/1.0.5000.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
[07:59] <ajmitch> does that one exist?
[07:59] <bob2> no
[08:00] <bob2> dpkg says System.dll should, tho, so it looks like my system is screwed
[08:00] <ajmitch> they both should, and only one of them is a symlink
[08:00] <ajmitch> we were having problems with symlinks & upgrades that has been fixed
[08:03] <bob2> and now it works
[08:03] <bob2> thanks :)
[08:20] <sabdfl> morning guys
[08:20] <ajmitch> morning sabdfl 
[08:20] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[08:20] <sabdfl> how's the badger?
[08:20] <Yagisan> G'day
[08:21] <fabbione> looking very very good
[08:21] <bob2> ajmitch: is nunit in ubuntu/debian anywhere?
[08:21] <ajmitch> bob2: I sponsored the upload to debian last week
[08:21] <fabbione> sabdfl: this time we will also get Breezy Sparc (for Developers mainly)
[08:21] <bob2> ajmitch: oh, yay
[08:21] <ajmitch> so it should be in now
[08:21] <ajmitch> bob2: I'll try & get it synced for breezy then, shall I?
[08:22] <bob2> ajmitch: that would be awesome, thanks
[08:22] <ajmitch> ah, nunit is on incoming.debian.org if you want it now
[08:27] <sabdfl> fabbione: fantastic! with installer?
[08:27] <fabbione> sabdfl: yes of course
[08:27] <fabbione> ubuntu-desktop in full afaict
[08:28] <fabbione> we miss OO2.. but well.. it will be in for dapper
[08:28] <fabbione> not enough spare time to even look at it :(
[08:28] <fabbione> the rest is all there
[08:29] <fabbione> but we can't really release for Users yet.. unfortunatly X autoconfig is not state of the art for sparc and all the people involved have headless machines :(
[08:34] <sabdfl> ok, it's still a good start
[08:34] <sabdfl> and community feedback should help to address the OO.o2 and X issues during the Dapper cycle
[08:36] <\sh> fabbione: usable for sun blade 1000? looks like I have one as spare in our office...
[08:37] <fabbione> sabdfl: exactly :)
[08:38] <fabbione> \sh: should be.. yes
[08:38] <jbailey> fabbione: That's not entirely fair, my machine is headed.
[08:38] <fabbione> jbailey: oh right.. but you have a PCI card :) that doesn't address all the different SUN GFX's
[08:39] <jbailey> Ah, all of my sparcs have had PCI video on them.
[08:39] <jbailey> I thought they did away with the on-board stuff with sparc32?
[08:39] <fabbione> the U60 i have doesn't
[08:39] <\sh> fabbione: hmm...i could test xinerama with it...it has 2 wildcat 3d cards and the usual one on board ;)
[08:39] <fabbione> but the mobo/cpu are still broken
[08:39] <fabbione> \sh: xinerama works.. what we need to ttest more is the installer
[08:40] <\sh> fabbione: isos at the usual places? well...tomorrow I'll grab one
[08:40] <fabbione> \sh: not exactly the usual place...
[08:41] <fabbione> but i will ping you when to use one. i need to see if Kamion has time to build a new one first
[08:41] <fabbione> \sh: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/current/
[08:41] <\sh> fabbione: np...today's german reunion day...so u have one day more ;)
[08:41] <jsgotangco> oktoberfest?
[08:41] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:41] <fabbione> oh right
[08:43] <\sh> jsgotangco: reunion day...
[08:44] <\sh> jsgotangco: oktoberfest starts in september...and it ends..oh well, today :(
[08:44] <jsgotangco> ohhhh
[08:47] <rob^> mmm lots of german beer..
[08:48] <rob^> a couple of years ago some drunken idiot smashed a glass stein over someones head and since then we only have plastic steins at the local events here
[08:51] <\sh> rob^: oh sorry...but this happens during the oktoberfest all the time...that's why avoid this party at all...and it's in munich, bavaria...so a no go for me ;)
[08:53] <\sh> k...time to do some real life work....
[08:54] <rob^> I've had the plesure (?) of climing thru roofs all day, I guess it isnt a good thing that my eyes and chest now kind of hurt a little
[08:55] <rob^> dam fiberglass
[08:55] <ajmitch> rob^: it's not generally a good sign
[08:55] <mdke> your james bond lifestyle is bad for your health
[08:56] <rob^> I should have taken the air ducts :)
[08:57] <mdke> live and learn eh
[08:57] <rob^> never trust dodgy contractors who tell you that you don't need protection..
[09:28] <bob2> ajmitch: hm, dunno if it's a bug per se, but monodoc complains it can't show the nunit docs
[09:29] <ajmitch> with nunit installed?
[09:29] <ajmitch> morning seb128 
[09:30] <seb128> hi ajmitch
[09:31] <bob2> ajmitch: yeah, I have gnunit libnunit-cil libnunit-doc nunit nunit-console  installed
[09:31] <ajmitch> when do you see the monodoc error?
[09:32] <bob2> run monodoc, select Various -> Nunit Libraries, get "Unhandle URL" error
[09:33] <ajmitch> bob2: right, I'll check if it's compatible with the rather old monodoc we have
[09:33] <bob2> ah
[09:36] <bob2> (debsums says all the other mono stuff is ok now;)
[09:40] <infinity> Hrm.  Is there a way to select one plugin over another in Mozilla/Firefox, short of deleting the one you don't want used?
[09:40] <infinity> If not, then perhaps mozilla-mplayer should dpkg-divert the totem firefox plugin out of the plugins directory when it's installed.
[10:41] <\sh> infinity: did u get my request from this morning? 
[10:41] <infinity> Which was?
[10:42] <\sh> give back rrdcollect 0.2.3-2 (didn't build on 21. september) because of one build-dep...should be fine now
[10:42] <infinity> Pretty sure it's built and installed now.
[10:43] <\sh> well...not yesterday 
[10:43] <infinity> Yes, well.  Ask the archive before you ask me if I've done something for you. :)
[10:44] <\sh> infinity: when it's in the archive, it should not be listed in unmet-deps list ;)
[10:45] <\sh> infinity: thx ;)
[10:45] <Kamion> (that's enforced, as usual - you can upload, but it'll sit in the queue until approved. check first if in doubt.)
[10:46] <infinity> Oh, dang, I should have got that apache2 patch in over the weekend. :)
[10:46] <infinity> Oh well, not I'll just have to explain it to someone again before I upload.
[10:46] <infinity> Kamion : And your fixed lrm is on the way-ish.
[10:46] <Kamion> great, thanks
[10:46] <infinity> Things got a lot uglier / more complex when we dropped linking.
[10:47] <infinity> ie: kernel-wedge had a sad.
[10:47] <Kamion> I've still got several oem-config changes to get in, but there you go
[10:48] <infinity> \sh : madwifi seems to work fine, for some value of "work"...
[10:48] <infinity> \sh : Not sure if they could be made to work BETTER, but there you go. :)
[10:48] <\sh> infinity: well..it works somehow...wpa-psk + dhcp does not, but wpa-psk + static routes is working
[10:49] <infinity> Curious.
[10:49] <\sh> s/dhcp/dhcp requests/
[10:49] <infinity> Timing issue, perhaps?... dhclient is running while the card is still associating, and it fails?
[10:49] <\sh> no
[10:49] <\sh> wpa-psk auth is already done
[10:50] <ajmitch> \sh: how about with updated wpa_supplicant that went in today?
[10:50] <ajmitch> hi koke 
[10:50] <\sh> ajmitch: tested already..no changes
[10:50] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok to fix 16780 with the obvious patch?
[10:50] <ajmitch> ok
[10:50] <Kamion> jbailey: your ubuntu-docs changelog is concerning
[10:51] <Kamion> +  Note: This page needs work as the image doesn't display and the CSS
[10:51] <Kamion> +  file crashes firefox, but this kills the annoying error.
[10:51] <Kamion> jbailey: I feel *so* comfortable approving that :-P
[10:51] <\sh> infinity: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16785 <- there is a link to a slackware howto...and this guy mentioned the same strange behaviour
[10:51] <ajmitch> \sh: nothing obvious when running it in foreground & debug on?
[10:51] <\sh> ajmitch: nothing
[10:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes - I mostly assigned it to you to confirm that it was the right thing to do
[10:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I haven't actually tested that it will fix what he claims, but it's obviously correct to me, so if it doesn't it's a bug in other places. :-)
[10:53] <\sh> ajmitch: well...if it was something with wpasupplicant, then static routing shouldn't work at all
[10:54] <\sh> ajmitch: and tested with two different wlan routers 
[10:56] <infinity> \sh : You could make that same argument for madwifi.
[10:56] <Kamion> Mithrandir: certainly a change in languagelist will change LANG; I was mostly checking that you've actually run breezy with LANG=nb_NO.UTF-8
[10:57] <infinity> \sh : At any rate, this doesn't look like the sort of thing we can fix for breezy, as a week isn't a very long time to roll back to a completely different CVS snapshot, get widespread testing, and call it "good enough".
[10:57] <Kamion> but yeah, diff is fine
[10:58] <\sh> infinity: this is for dapper...I know, because I had only now the possibilty to test the wifi 
[10:59] <ajmitch> \sh: sadly I switched away from madwifi with the new laptop, otherwise I could have tested it
[10:59] <ajmitch> since I'm using wpa-psk & dhcp here also
[10:59] <infinity> Someone could always courrier me an atheros PCMCIA or USB card for testing.
[10:59] <infinity> :)
[10:59] <\sh> infinity: ah one more thing...running dhcp on separate computer and dhcpd disabled on the wlan router works ;) with wpa-psk ;)
[10:59] <infinity> But yeah, not for breezy.  Bouncing around in CVS history, looking for the golden snapshot is far too risky.
[11:00] <ajmitch> except the card isn't mine :)
[11:00] <infinity> \sh : Oh, curious.  So, you are getting linkbeat, and dhcp packets are getting through, it's the router itself that's not speaking to you as you'd like.
[11:00] <ajmitch> \sh: eh, that sounds a bit broken :)
[11:00] <\sh> infinity: two routers, different mades?
[11:01] <infinity> All very weird.
[11:01] <\sh> infinity: one was a d-link di-524 and the other one a linksys wrt54g with orig firmware and with dd-wrt
[11:01] <\sh> first I thought, the d-link waits for something special from dhclient somethind ms-ish
[11:01] <infinity> Well, if people want ath to rock for dapper, send me cheap hardware. (or, bring some disposable hardware to UBZ)
[11:01] <\sh> cause on windows it works as expected
[11:02] <fabbione> doko: ping?
[11:02] <infinity> \sh : Try sending a hostname with dhclient.
[11:02] <infinity> (It doesn't by default)
[11:02] <infinity> (and Windows does)
[11:02] <\sh> gnarf
[11:02] <\sh> lets test it directly
[11:03] <infinity>  /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf --> send host-name "foo.bar.com";
[11:03] <\sh> infinity: yeah...
[11:03] <ajmitch> infinity: I'll bring the madwifi pcmcia card to UBZ, if you can do anything in a few days
[11:03] <\sh> sometimes I don't think about those things...
[11:03] <infinity> (Windows only sends the unqualified part, but an fqdn would work just as well...)
[11:04] <\sh> infinity: if this is the cause...we should change the dhclient config
[11:04] <infinity> I have an odd feeling that the hostname may have to match the hostname that wpa_supplicant sent, or something equally weird.
[11:04] <infinity> Your router could be using that as added "security".
[11:05] <infinity> (For some silly reason)
[11:05] <\sh> I don't have a hostname in wpa_supplicant..only the shared secret ;)
[11:06] <infinity> Yeah, I'm not familiar with the WPA protocol.
[11:06] <infinity> I meant that it might send the hostname as part of the protocol.
[11:06] <infinity> I have no clue. :)
[11:06] <infinity> I have no secrets, it's just to keep the neighbours from leeching my bandwidth, y'know?
[11:07] <\sh> I think my neighbours are running wifi scanners ;)
[11:08] <\sh> no
[11:08] <\sh> doesn't work
[11:08] <Yagisan> \sh: If I were them - I would :)
[11:10] <\sh> yes..my daily disconnect 
[11:11] <\sh> anyways..static routing works ;)
[11:12] <\sh> and wep40/128 + dhcp as well
[11:12] <ajmitch> mm, nice & crackable :)
[11:12] <infinity> wep40 4 lyf.
[11:12] <\sh> ajmitch: thats why I'm running wpa-psk + something routing-ish ;)
[11:18] <carlos> seb128, hi, around?
[11:18] <seb128> hey carlos
[11:18] <pschulz01> Greetings, I have tried installing ubuntu colony 4 onto a USB HDD (ipod). I had some problems. Has anyone here tried this.
[11:19] <Kamion> pschulz01: what architecture?
[11:19] <pschulz01> Intel. 
[11:19] <carlos> seb128, we still have problems with evolution, no .pot file. Latest tarball is from 20050915....
[11:20] <carlos> seb128, did you reupload that package with the fix?
[11:20] <Mirv> seb128: hey, when are those DesktopTranslations from wiki going to be integrated?
[11:20] <pschulz01> I could also try it on a mimi mac (currently runnign ubuntu) but I have 
[11:20] <pschulz01> no ida how to make it boot from a USB disk.
[11:21] <Kamion> pschulz01: where does it break?
[11:21] <Kamion> pschulz01: Mac is even less likely to work - it's excruciatingly hard to get yaboot to boot from a USB disk automatically
[11:22] <pschulz01> Kamion: The installer detects the USB drive ok, but GRUB seem to insist on messing with the boot sector on 'hda' rather than 'sda'.
[11:22] <Kamion> you should be able to override where grub-installer wants to install the boot sector
[11:22] <pschulz01> Kamion: Other than this, installer seems to work OK. 
[11:23] <Kamion> grub does sometimes get drive ordering wrong, annoyingly
[11:23] <pschulz01> Kamion: I now have a broken Redhat instalation though.
[11:23] <infinity> That could be seen as a feature. :)
[11:23] <Kamion> that's what rescue mode's for :)
[11:23] <pschulz01> hehe.
[11:24] <Kamion> if you answer "no" to the "Install the GRUB boot loader to the master boot record?" question, it'll prompt you for a boot device
[11:24] <pschulz01> Is this being looked at? I was dumbly doign a 'chicken' install.
[11:24] <\sh> pschulz01: u won't miss redhat ;-)
[11:25] <pschulz01> \sh: I think I will still have to fix it.. It is used by others in the office.
[11:25] <carlos> Kamion, hi, could you tell me the module you are waiting for being imported into Rosetta? I think it should be already imported but I don't remember the name to check it
[11:25] <pschulz01> Kamion: Doesn't it prompt for 'partition'?
[11:25] <pschulz01> I'll have to try it again..
[11:26] <torkel> fabbione: ping?
[11:26] <seb128> carlos: I know, I've planned to fix that with 2.12.1 tarballs today
[11:26] <\sh> anyways..time for me to leave the show here...and enjoy the show with my son :) later dudes
[11:26] <seb128> Mirv: today, why?
[11:26] <seb128> jordi: ping?
[11:28] <carlos> seb128, ok, thanks
[11:28] <fabbione> torkel: pong?
[11:28] <seb128> carlos: np
[11:31] <Kamion> pschulz01: by default, if it thinks it detected all other operating systems on the disk, it just says "can I install to the master boot record?" - no point giving people who won't understand it an obscure partition prompt
[11:31] <Kamion> carlos: um ... was I waiting for one?
[11:31] <torkel> fabbione: never mind. I thought it was you doing the last work in ubuntu on memtest86+, but I rememberd wrong
[11:31] <carlos> Kamion, you asked me last week about something related to debian-installer
[11:32] <carlos> but I don't remember the details, that's why I'm asking you...
[11:32] <carlos> anyway, if you don't remember it I suppose it's not too important :-P
[11:32] <fabbione> torkel: ehe no problem
[11:33] <torkel> I need a memtest with serial console support turned on :-)
[11:34] <pschulz01> Kamion: My fault... I'll try again to see it it works. I guess I want to install the bootloader in the master boot record of the USB disk.
[11:34] <Kamion> carlos: I would have been asking about updates to existing imports, not new imports
[11:35] <carlos> Kamion, ok, do you remember which ones are?
[11:35] <Kamion> carlos: for instance most of the updates in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/partman-auto/+pots/pkgconf-partman-auto and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/base-config/+pots/pkgconf-base-config were applied in the distro a few days ago
[11:35] <Kamion> carlos: not the full list
[11:36] <Kamion> carlos: well, at least anna archive-copier base-config base-installer cdebconf cdrom-checker cdrom-detect kbd-chooser localechooser partman-auto
[11:36] <pschulz01> Kamion: Cheer. BFN
[11:40] <seb128> daniels: hey. Got my mail?
[11:41] <bob2> ajmitch: any idea if there's an emacs C# mode in ubuntu/debian?
[11:42] <ajmitch> bob2: probably not, I think the one I used is grabbed off the net somewhere
[11:42] <carlos> Kamion, seems like all those are imported already...
[11:42] <daniels> seb128: just got it.  any chance you could get Xorg.0.log too?  sorry, forgot to ask for that earlier ...
[11:42] <bob2> ajmitch: yeah, I found some guys alleged C# mode, which seemed to be a zip file with 17 modified versions of standard emacs
[11:43] <seb128> daniels: I'll ask
[11:43] <daniels> seb128: thanks
[11:43] <seb128> np
[11:43] <bob2> ah, there's a standing ITP
[11:45] <Kamion> carlos: they don't all seem to be up to date
[11:46] <hunger> I can not burn CDs in breezy: cdrecord (or k3b) assumes the device to use is /dev/sg0 while it actually is /dev/sg1... I guess sg0 is my HD. Is this a bug in cdrecord or udev?
[11:46] <Kamion> carlos: I know they've been imported - I downloaded translation updates for them from Rosetta ...
[11:47] <jordi> seb128: pong
[11:49] <carlos> Kamion, which ones are not?
[11:49] <seb128> jordi: I guess than you want to do .ca versions of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTranslations
[11:49] <jordi> yes
[11:49] <seb128> jordi: do they now, we are already a few days late on those uploads
[11:50] <Kamion> carlos: anna, base-config, partman-auto at least; I haven't found one that *is* updated yet, since ~Friday
[11:51] <carlos> Kamion, oh, you did a new upload on Friday?
[11:51] <carlos> that's possible
[11:51] <Kamion> yes - some yesterday too, those were cdrom-checker and cdrom-detect
[11:51] <Kamion> but the rest of the ones I listed I uploaded on Friday
[11:51] <Kamion> this import process seems to be very slow and makes Rosetta difficult to use for me
[11:52] <carlos> hmmm
[11:52] <carlos> Kamion, in fact... anna was updated on Saturday, so it should be 100% up to date
[11:52] <Kamion> we have ten days until we release; delays of three days are a very significant fraction of that :-)
[11:53] <Kamion> carlos: in that case I think you must have a bug, because it's showing purple bars in the overview page for translations I know I imported
[11:53] <carlos> Kamion, well, it's just that we had a huge queue to reimport after we fixed a bug, usually the queue should be fast enough...
[11:53] <sabdfl> carlos: with the main import done, why can't we keep up with the buildd's? any new package built should automatically have transaltions imported, right?
[11:54] <carlos> sabdfl, right, it should be working
[11:54] <carlos> Kamion, for instance Swedish?
[11:55] <Kamion> hmm, let me just download the new translations to check
[11:55] <Kamion> I updated Hungarian, Slovak, and Swedish on Friday
[11:55] <lifeless> mjg59: ping
[11:56] <carlos> ok
[11:56] <seb128> carlos: do you know what's going on with the control-center-2.0 potfile ?
[11:57] <carlos> seb128, isn't it fixed already?
[11:57] <seb128> carlos: the bar is all purple
[11:57] <seb128> carlos: I've uploaded the fixed package like 4 days ago
[12:00] <mjg59> lifeless: Hi
[12:01] <lifeless> mjg59: hibernate is still broken
[12:01] <lifeless> mjg59: by still, I mean since a fortnight back when I installed
[12:02] <lifeless> mjg59: comes back up with the swsusp output, acpi IDE device handler is NULL, then stops
[12:02] <Kamion> carlos: as far as hu, sk, and sv are concerned, the tarball Rosetta gives me now for pkgconf-anna is identical to the one it gave me on Friday afternoon
[12:02] <Kamion> diff reports no differences
[12:03] <mjg59> lifeless: Hrngh.
[12:03] <mjg59> lifeless: Are you using LVM?
[12:03] <lifeless> mjg59: I don't believe so
[12:03] <lifeless> mjg59: its my hoary laptop install, upgraded
[12:04] <Kamion> -rw-rw-r--   1 katie katie 31962 2005-09-30 19:15 anna_1.15ubuntu2_i386.udeb
[12:04] <mjg59> lifeless: Crap. I'm entirely unable to reproduce hibernate failure.
[12:05] <tepsipakki> mjg59: fails here too, using LVM
[12:05] <tepsipakki> has worked
[12:05] <lifeless> mjg59: tell me what you'd like me to do, short of shipping my laptop to you
[12:06] <mjg59> lifeless: Short of shipping your laptop to me, this is going to be difficult
[12:07] <Kamion> carlos: hmm. if a translation is fuzzy in the package, but fully translated in Rosetta, does it show up as blue or purple?
[12:07] <Kamion> maybe anna is not the best test case
[12:07] <lifeless> mjg59: I expect that
[12:07] <lifeless> mjg59: however, its less difficult than the whining I'll do at UBZ if its broken still ;0
[12:07] <Diziet> Can someone tell me what wnck is ?  (libwnck, wnck-applet)
[12:08] <mjg59> lifeless: Given that I'm not going to be there...
[12:08] <mjg59> Diziet: Window Navigation Construction Kit
[12:08] <mjg59> Or something like that
[12:08] <Diziet> Ta.
[12:08] <lifeless> mjg59: garh.
[12:08] <carlos> Kaloz, purple
[12:08] <lifeless> mjg59: dodging out like that
[12:08] <carlos> s/kaloz/kamion/
[12:09] <Kamion> carlos: oh, ok, maybe anna is ok then
[12:09] <lifeless> mjg59: seriously though, what would you do to diagnose this ?
[12:10] <Kamion> carlos: base-installer is still confusing me, though; Greek and Spanish are both 100% translated in the package, but Greek has an all-green bar in Rosetta and Spanish has a purple bit
[12:10] <carlos> Kamion, anyway, if you download a .po file from Rosetta and import it again without changes setting the 'published' flag, the purple color should disappear
[12:10] <jordi> seb128: done
[12:10] <Kamion> and both Greek and Spanish were updated in the last upload
[12:10] <carlos> Kamion, if you don't upload it by hand, the purple should disapper with next update
[12:11] <seb128> jordi: thanks
[12:11] <Diziet> Damn, looks like there might be two (or more!) things that crash when window titles are far too long.
[12:11] <Kamion> carlos: I don't have privileges to upload by hand, and in any case it's ridiculously time-consuming to upload every .po file by hand ...
[12:11] <carlos> Kamion, let me investigate a bit with the db....
[12:11] <carlos> Kamion, it was just a note about how Rosetta works
[12:11] <Kamion> ok
[12:11] <carlos> Kamion, if you add them to the .deb package, Rosetta will do the reupload
[12:12] <Kamion> right
[12:12] <mjg59> lifeless: Seriously, I have no idea
[12:12] <mjg59> lifeless: If you do echo -n disk > /sys/power/state, does it suspend/resume?
[12:12] <carlos> seb128, I will look into control-center after this
[12:13] <lifeless> mjg59: should I kill X first ? or leave it running
[12:13] <seb128> carlos: thanks
[12:13] <Mirv> seb128: ok, thanks.. I was just interested because the deadline was on Friday and I didn't see them integrated then or during the weekend
[12:14] <mjg59> lifeless: With X, to start with
[12:14] <Kamion> carlos: it's all a bit confusing because I'm only doing partial updates from Rosetta, based on my judgement of what won't cause difficult-to-resolve merge issues for me when we open up dapper
[12:15] <carlos> Kamion, sorry, I don't understand the issue...
[12:16] <Kamion> carlos: basically because automatic exports from Rosetta are so difficult (and in any event I still have to import translations into installer packages by hand), I have to rely on the blue/purple bars to see when something's been updated
[12:16] <daniels> lifeless: (the X40 works fine)
[12:18] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, usplash stopped working for me over the weekend, what do you need for a bugreport?
[12:18] <carlos> Kamion, please, if you have some time, describe the best way you think we should be using to do that so we can prepare a kind of language packs but for debian-installer...
[12:18] <Kamion> carlos: but because I don't update everything from Rosetta, only Ubuntu-specific strings and ones that are untranslated (because that would put me in a position later of having to decide between multiple conflicting translations in 30-odd languages I don't speak), I don't always get the bars completely updated
[12:18] <Kamion> carlos: the installer cannot use language packs; it's not technically feasible
[12:18] <Kamion> (memory constraints, etc.)
[12:18] <carlos> I know
[12:18] <carlos> I'm talking about something like...
[12:19] <carlos> so we give you a tarball with all translations
[12:19] <carlos> and you move the .po files into their own place
[12:19] <Kamion> but jordi sent a mail last night which I've yet to reply to, about the merged all-installer-translations files; that should help
[12:19] <carlos> or something like that
[12:19] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Ideally something more than "it stopped working"
[12:19] <janimo> daniels, are the messages in .xsession-errors starting with the line _IceTransTransNoListen: unable to find transport: tcp
[12:19] <janimo>  harmless if otherwise X starts ok?
[12:19] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Any error messages when you generate an initramfs?
[12:19] <Kamion> I talked about this with either you or daf in the hoary cycle, though
[12:20] <jordi> carlos: not feasible either
[12:20] <jordi> carlos: d-i doesn't use mo files r po files
[12:20] <Kamion> jordi: huh?
[12:20] <Kamion> jordi: it certainly does use .po files
[12:20] <jordi> Kamion: not at runtime
[12:20] <jordi> it uses generated template files
[12:20] <Kamion> jordi: yes, but that doesn't matter, this would all happen at build-time
[12:20] <Diziet> Aaargh!  That firefox index.html is _still_ missing !
[12:20] <jordi> Kamion: oh, right
[12:20] <Kamion> Diziet: it's sitting in the approvals queue because the changelog scared me
[12:21] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, how do I generate one?
[12:21] <Kamion> Diziet: the changelog claims that the new CSS file crashes firefox, or something like that
[12:21] <jordi> for Lliurex, we came up with a system to include updated translations for the udebs
[12:21] <daniels> janimo: yeah
[12:21] <Kamion> jordi: I've seen it, but I'd much rather steer clear
[12:21] <Diziet> Is the source in pool ?
[12:21] <Kamion> cdebconf is very delicate in that area
[12:21] <jordi> Kamion: surely. We lack the resources to do custm builds for all the udebs though.
[12:22] <carlos> seb128, ok, found the problem with control-center, it's a bug that prevents us to import it
[12:22] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`
[12:22] <Diziet> No, I see it isn't.
[12:22] <seb128> carlos: bug from the package or from rosetta?
[12:23] <Diziet> k: Where can I get the source to try it for myself ?
[12:23] <carlos> seb128, Rosetta
[12:23] <seb128> k
[12:23] <Kamion> Diziet: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubuntu-docs/
[12:23] <Diziet> Ta.
[12:23] <seb128> carlos: what trigger it? just curious
[12:23] <Kamion> jordi: right. we don't :-)
[12:23] <carlos> seb128, a plural form
[12:23] <carlos> seb128, the .pot changes the msgid_plural
[12:23] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, "not touching initrd/image symbolic links - searching for splash image... none found, skipping"
[12:24] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Sounds fine
[12:24] <carlos> and the .po files are still using the old one and Rosetta gets confused
[12:24] <mjg59> That's the grub splash, not usplash
[12:24] <Kamion> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/installer-po/ is buggy for some reason at the moment (it's missing partman-auto at least, possibly others), but if I fix that, would it be possible for you to import it?
[12:24] <seb128> carlos: the .pot has ""Plural-Forms: nplurals=INTEGER; plural=EXPRESSION;\n"" ... that's coherent with the .po files no?
[12:25] <Kamion> it's a merged set of translations for (theoretically) all installer packages, roughly paralleling the master files in upstream d-i
[12:25] <Diziet> k: Did you have to approve ubuntu-artwork (0.2.25-1) ?  Because I'd like to point out:
[12:25] <Diziet> ubuntu-artwork (0.2.25-1) breezy; urgency=low
[12:25] <Diziet>     - removed browser homepage
[12:25] <carlos> seb128, that's part of the template, yes
[12:26] <lifeless> mjg59: ok
[12:26] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, anything I can do otherwise when I file a bug?
[12:26] <lifeless> it did better
[12:26] <Kamion> Diziet: yes, I know; no, the archive was not locked down yet at that stage
[12:26] <carlos> Kamion, yeah, we can do that
[12:26] <Diziet> Ah, right.  How unfortunate.  Oh well.
[12:26] <Kamion> Diziet: I realise the current situation is broken, and I'm not intending to leave it that way until preview release
[12:26] <mjg59> lifeless: Ah, ok. That's good.
[12:26] <Diziet> k: Yes, I was just wondering whether that one needed approval.  Looks like it slipped in.
[12:26] <carlos> Kamion, will you add those .po files to any .deb source package?
[12:26] <Kamion> Diziet: I just didn't want to approve something that seemed to imply it would cause the browser to crash on startup on default installs
[12:27] <Diziet> Yeah.
[12:27] <Kamion> carlos: no
[12:27] <daniels> Kamion: (release candidate)
[12:27] <lifeless> mjg59: what it got right : 
[12:27] <Kamion> daniels: er, yeah, right, that one
[12:27] <lifeless> it gave me the shell back 
[12:27] <lifeless> mjg59: what it got wrong:
[12:27] <lifeless> it didn't power off the laptop
[12:27] <mjg59> lifeless: In that case, can you try removing chunks of /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh and/or /etc/acpi/prepare.sh ?
[12:27] <carlos> Kamion, ok, then we are going to add them as a product outside the /distros/ url
[12:27] <mjg59> lifeless: Uhm. So it didn't actually suspend?
[12:27] <carlos> Kamion, do you agree?
[12:27] <lifeless> I confused X terribly by switching back to alt-f7 without running my 915-resolution-thing
[12:28] <carlos> Kaloz, just like the ddtp templates
[12:28] <lifeless> mjg59: it saved a snapshot to disk, then said 'shutting down
[12:28] <Kamion> carlos: not really - they're intrinsically associated with the Ubuntu Breezy installer
[12:28] <lifeless> S|
[12:28] <carlos> s/Kaloz/Kamion/
[12:28] <lifeless> sda1 shutdown
[12:28] <mjg59> Or it just didn't power down, but when you powered down manually it then resumed ok?
[12:28] <lifeless> halting machine
[12:28] <lifeless> but didn't actually power down
[12:28] <Kamion> carlos: the hoary version of the same would be totally different
[12:28] <lifeless> yes, when I powered down manually, it then resumed
[12:28] <carlos> Kamion, it's a matter of create different branches
[12:28] <mjg59> lifeless: Ok, yes, that's better
[12:28] <mjg59> lifeless: Can you try the hacking /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh and prepare.sh, then?
[12:28] <carlos> Kamion, to put it inside /distros/, I need a sourcepackagename to associate it with
[12:28] <Kamion> carlos: those branches are just the same as the /distros/ tree though
[12:29] <lifeless> mjg59: yep
[12:29] <Kamion> carlos: if it's a matter of needing a reserved piece of the namespace, you can safely use debian-installer
[12:29] <mjg59> lifeless: Thanks
[12:29] <carlos> Kamion, https://launchpad.net/products/ddtp-ubuntu
[12:29] <lifeless> why is the vbestate saving disabled ?
[12:30] <carlos> Kamion, we can do it as you wish
[12:30] <Kamion> although there's already a source package called debian-installer which contains .po files for the manual
[12:30] <Kamion> but it could be a different template within that source package
[12:30] <carlos> Kamion, that's not a big proble unless both have the same name
[12:30] <carlos> right
[12:31] <Kamion> carlos: yeah, that would be best if you can arrange it; if not, the /products/ddtp-ubuntu/-style thing is workable, but it just seems wrong and confusing
[12:31] <Kamion> I'll try to figure out what's up with the installer-po/ build process today
[12:31] <carlos> Kamion, ok, I will put you as the owner so you can upload updated .pot files, ok? as part of debian-installer
[12:32] <mjg59> lifeless: It isn't?
[12:32] <lifeless> mjg59: >!
[12:32] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, anything else I can try for debugging usplash?
[12:33] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Does it still not work?
[12:33] <mjg59> lifeless: Video POSTing is
[12:33] <Kamion> carlos: that would be great, thanks (although it'll be for dapper, as we're past the non-langpack translation freeze now; but best get it set up now)
[12:33] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, I'll reboot in a minute, but I'm afraid it won't.
[12:33] <Kamion> carlos: is there any way to upload those automatically?
[12:33] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: It's only software, there's no need to be scared if it's broken
[12:33] <Mithrandir> anybody know where ogra is?
[12:33] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, I'm scared out of my pants, really
[12:34] <HiddenWolf> :)
[12:34] <carlos> Kamion, if you add them to the debian installer sourcepackage, that's enough
[12:34] <Kamion> carlos: you mean in an upload?
[12:34] <carlos> Kamion, yeah
[12:34] <Kamion> carlos: that really isn't feasible - uploads of the debian-installer source package are complex and mildly scary
[12:35] <carlos> Kamion, hmm, if you are not going to use it for breezy, I should not setup it yet, we should wait for dapper in Launchpad
[12:35] <Kamion> and require special effort from the archive admins
[12:35] <Kamion> carlos: something I could trigger from a cron job on rookery would be ideal
[12:36] <carlos> Kamion, another option is that you "emulate" the buildd output
[12:36] <Kamion> then it could stay up to date automatically without requiring me to upload something all the time
[12:36] <carlos> Kamion, adding the tarball to people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/translations
[12:36] <lifeless> mjg59: interesting thing
[12:36] <lifeless> mjg59: I can cause serial-sleep events
[12:36] <lifeless> if I hit standyby a few times before it kicks in
[12:37] <nomed> i'm trying to compile the breezy kernel with gcc-3.3 .. i receive Unknown symbol error for all the modules i try to modprobe from the initrd .. is it normal?
[12:37] <mjg59> lifeless: Hm. Maybe we should create the lockfile earlier, then
[12:37] <Kamion> carlos: hmm, interesting, that might be possible given sufficient collusion with lamont
[12:37] <carlos> Kamion, ok
[12:37] <Kamion> carlos: thanks, I'll see what I can do about that
[12:37] <lifeless> the right way to trigger hibernate without the button is via gnome's logout menu ?
[12:38] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:38] <bob2> nomed: did you update the initrd to include the modules you compiled?
[12:38] <nomed> bob2 yes
[12:38] <bob2> nomed: the default kernel is built with gcc-3.4 and modules compiled with gcc-3.3 are probably not compatible
[12:39] <Mirv> carlos: is the upload queue again stuck? I tried to upload an utf-8 version of gaim's Finnish translation, but it's been about two days now and no reply (I used "public upload" because of the new charset)
[12:39] <nomed> yes .. that's possible .. i was just trying .. but it seems it's not compatible
[12:40] <bob2> nomed: why are you recompiling it with gcc 3.3?
[12:41] <nomed> i would just use the gcc i had in hoary ..
[12:41] <Kamion> carlos: yeah, I can definitely confirm that pkgconf-base-installer's idea of what's in the archive is wrong
[12:43] <bob2> nomed: gcc-3.4 is in hoary...
[12:43] <carlos> Kamion, what's wrong with it?, outdated?
[12:44] <carlos> Mirv, let me check...
[12:44] <Kamion> carlos: yeah, for example Spanish is 100% translated in the package
[12:44] <nomed> bob2, yes .. now i installed it .. i was meaning that i would use the gcc i already had in hoary
[12:44] <carlos> Kamion, ok
[12:45] <carlos> Mirv, where did you upload it?
[12:46] <Mirv> carlos: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gaim/+pots/gaim/fi/+translate (so the newest gaim 1:1.5.0-1ubuntu3 package)
[12:47] <Diziet> kamion: That CSS doesn't seem to be included in the .deb.
[12:47] <Diziet> It makes the page pretty spare, but it doesn't crash.
[12:48] <carlos> Mirv, Still 500 files to import since Wednesday (more than 7000 files already imported since then) so I suppose yours is waiting in the queue.
[12:48] <Diziet> In fact, it's looking for /usr/share/libs/aboutubuntu.css, AFAICT.
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, seems it was initramfs, working like a charm now.
[12:49] <Kamion> Diziet: ok, thanks - approved, it'll be on archive.u.c in ~25 minutes
[12:49] <Diziet> Yes, strace confirms that.
[12:49] <Diziet> Ta.
[12:49] <Kamion> well, source will, binaries will be ~30mins later
[12:49] <Mirv> carlos: okay, thanks. it'd be nice to have the better translation in breezy.
[12:49] <Diziet> It still needs sorting out, badly.
[12:49] <Diziet> And if the CSS crashes Firefox I'd like to investigate it !
[12:50] <Kamion> indeed
[12:51] <Diziet> Jeff seems to know about it: `Fixed in 5.10-5, but further improvements needed to the page (missing image,
[12:51] <Diziet> missing stylesheet)'
[12:52] <seb128> carlos: I can drop the translation patch from gnome-panel now, right?
[12:52] <carlos> seb128, I think so, yes
[12:53] <seb128> cool
[12:53] <carlos> let me check it to be 100% sure
[12:53] <seb128> the patch has basically the translations for the "System" strings 
[12:54] <carlos> yeah, downloading the .po file to be sure that we have it imported
[12:55] <seb128> k
[01:04] <carlos> Kamion, the files that are not updated at Rosetta are due the current queue size, I hope it will be imported tonight
[01:04] <Kamion> carlos: ok, great; thanks for your investigation
[01:04] <carlos> np
[01:04] <mjg59> lifeless: Any joy?
[01:06] <carlos> seb128, is the patch you want to remove the one that adds this?:
[01:06] <carlos> #: ../gnome-panel/panel-menu-items.c:939
[01:06] <carlos> msgid "System"
[01:06] <carlos> msgstr "Sistema"
[01:06] <seb128> carlos: yeah
[01:06] <carlos> seb128, ok, go ahead, Rosetta has that
[01:07] <seb128> cool, thanks
[01:11] <lifeless> mjg59: some info, no joy
[01:11] <lifeless> mjg59: I commented out all of hibernate, no impact
[01:11] <lifeless> mjg59: so i commented out all of resume, no impact
[01:12] <lifeless> mjg59: I am thinking it is X. is it reasonable to run /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh from a console ?
[01:12] <mjg59> lifeless: But. Uhm. If you comment out all of hibernate.sh except the echo call, it's identical to what you tested.
[01:12] <lifeless> mjg59: I know. the only variable seems to be being in X when it starts
[01:12] <mjg59> I thought you were in X before?
[01:12] <lifeless> mjg59: which is why I want to try it without using the gnome knob.
[01:13] <mjg59> When you did the echo call
[01:13] <lifeless> I had X running, was sitting in a console when I did the echo -n > disk
[01:13] <mjg59> Ah, right
[01:13] <mjg59> Hrm
[01:13] <mjg59> prepare.sh does a chvt away from X
[01:14] <mjg59> So it ought to be identical
[01:14] <lifeless> I'll try echo -n disk > /s/p/s now from within X
[01:14] <mjg59> Ok
[01:14] <tepsipakki> mjg59: is swsusp known not to work with LVM?
[01:14] <mjg59> tepsipakki: It is currently unlikely that it will work
[01:15] <tepsipakki> mjg59: it used to work here, but now it just tells that is found the data on swap but doesn't load it
[01:15] <tepsipakki> it found..
[01:15] <tepsipakki> boots up normally
[01:15] <mjg59> tepsipakki: If you could produce the exact messages, that would be helpful
[01:16] <tepsipakki> ok
[01:16] <tepsipakki> mjg59: how do I get that in /var/log/messages?
[01:16] <tepsipakki> i mean, the message is lost otherwise
[01:18] <tepsipakki> lunch first ->
[01:20] <jdub> mjg59: pong
[01:21] <mjg59> jdub: What's the best way to get more people to send me information about their working laptops?
[01:21] <Mithrandir> offer them free beer
[01:22] <hno73> infinity: ping
[01:22] <lifeless> mjg59: so that failed
[01:22] <jdub> mjg59: i can see why working laptops would be more challenging
[01:22] <jdub> mjg59: hmm
[01:23] <mjg59> lifeless: Right. If you run /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh from the console, does it work?
[01:23] <lifeless> exactly what I was about to try
[01:24] <lifeless> mjg59: I have this in prepare:
[01:24] <lifeless> # And then try to save some video state
[01:24] <lifeless> #if [ x$SAVE_VBE_STATE = "xtrue" ] ; then
[01:24] <lifeless> #  VBESTATE=`tempfile`
[01:24] <lifeless> #  vbetool vbestate save >$VBESTATE;
[01:24] <lifeless> #fi 
[01:24] <jdub> mako: ping
[01:24] <lifeless> ~line 79
[01:24] <lifeless> mjg59: do you ?
[01:24] <mjg59> lifeless: Yes. That's correct. It's saved on boot.
[01:25] <mjg59> That way we have known good state rather than weird X-addled state
[01:25] <lifeless> ok.
[01:26] <lifeless> testing...
[01:36] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, in any case, you should sent detailed instructions to the -users list
[01:37] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, I'd tell people "if you fulfill condition A B and C, please run this script, and send me result.tar.gz"
[01:37] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: I did
[01:38] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, no reply?
[01:44] <daniels> mjg59: don't ask them to, just collect and submit the information anyway
[01:45] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: A small number of replies
[01:46] <HiddenWolf> daniels, evil! :P
[01:46] <HiddenWolf> Ubuntu Phone Home
[01:47] <jsgotangco> sabdfl, nice page *grin*
[01:50] <mjg59> lifeless: Anything?
[01:53] <lifeless> mjg59: yes, echo > /s/p/s from a console isn't working anymore
[01:53] <lifeless> mjg59: :[
[01:53] <mjg59> lifeless: Hurrah
[01:54] <lifeless> mjg59: so, with that failing, what next
[01:54] <mjg59> lifeless: Can you try when booted into single user mode?
[01:54] <lifeless> ok.
[02:03] <zyga_> pietrus: /nick zyga
[02:05] <lifeless> mjg59: so
[02:05] <lifeless> mjg59: echoing from single user mode console
[02:05] <lifeless> didn't power off, did save snapshot
[02:06] <lifeless> it did resume 'better' - but it did *something* graphical in nature, I got a 640x480ish white square
[02:06] <lifeless> which I couldn't do anything with
[02:10] <lifeless> mjg59: I'll pick this up tomorrow.wednesday
[02:10] <lifeless> mjg59: getting late
[02:11] <mjg59> lifeless: Ok, thanks
[02:11] <lifeless> stevea has the same model as me
[02:12] <tepsipakki> mjg59: umm, after resume I get no sound anymore
[02:12] <tepsipakki> suspend-to-ram
[02:23] <jbailey> Kamion: The changelog is to avoid the beatings of "OMG that page is so ugly"
[02:25] <jbailey> Kamion: The text is correct, and generated from the docbook.  We had thought that symlinking from the old ubuntu-artwork location to the current place would be fine, but that doesn't help the image path.
[02:25] <jbailey> Kamion: And when I added the CSS file in, FF crashes at startup.
[02:25] <Nafallo> hmm
[02:25] <Nafallo> that's english ;-)
[02:26] <jbailey> So now at least people aren't getting the file not found, message (which was a critical bug in bugzilla), and it gives me a day to figure out with the docteam what should go there.  And probably pre-generate the HTML file with the paths touched by hand and such so that everything's happy.
[02:26] <jbailey> Kamion: I'm more concerned by the firefox crash with the stylesheet.
[02:27] <`anthony> tepsipakki: tried unloading and reloading the sound driver?
[02:27] <tepsipakki> anthony: not yet
[02:28] <tepsipakki> mjg59: the message from swapon: /dev/mapper/divari-swap: software suspend data detected. Reinitializing the swap.
[02:35] <tepsipakki> `anthony: reloading helped. funny though, because I don't recall having such a configuration before
[02:38] <tepsipakki> besides I need to kill all programs that use the device in order to remove the module, which is not nice
[02:40] <`anthony> tepsipakki: add it to the list in /etc/default/acpi-support?
[02:42] <Kamion> jbailey: ok
[02:42] <Kamion> jbailey: (I approved the upload a while back after Diziet tested it to confirm it didn't break fx by default
[02:42] <Kamion> )
[02:43] <tepsipakki> anthony: and if I have, say, rhythmbox running when suspending, it can't remove the module..
[02:46] <Nafallo> use the --force tepsipakki 
[02:47] <tepsipakki> ok, no need to remove the module.. rhythmbox playing is hung when I resume, but works again if i hit the pause/play button. sound is restored when touching the mixer.. still, this used to work without any fuss
[02:48] <`anthony> tepsipakki: add a bugzilla?
[02:49] <tepsipakki> against what? linux?
[02:49] <Mirv> who is developing language-selector? the country names should come eg. from CLDR or other direct, official source instead of having all the names in a PO file
[02:49] <Mirv> it's waste of resources to have country names translated again and again
[02:50] <Mirv> same for languages
[02:50] <WaterSevenUb> mirv, there was an upload http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-September/011966.html
[02:50] <WaterSevenUb> mirv, was it supposed to solve that?
[02:51] <WaterSevenUb> mirv, not sure.... how are things in Rosetta?
[02:51] <jbailey> Kamion: Cool, thanks.  Should be no breakage (tested here), fixes yelp breakage (also tested here), just ugly. =)
[02:51] <Mirv> WaterSevenUb: might be.. I'm speaking of Rosetta and it has all the strings still in there. so maybe Rosetta just isn't updated? but I was happy to notice that most of the string there were these when I started translating...
[02:52] <Mirv> WaterSevenUb: but the upload looks nice
[02:52] <Kamion> Mirv: mvo
[02:53] <Kamion> Mirv: yes, getting translations from iso-codes should have fixed that
[02:54] <Mirv> Kamion: yes, mvo just isn't around here atm. it seems the source package in Rosetta is from the same day, probably before the upload.
[02:59] <seb128> Mirv: is language-selector already translated for your locale?
[03:00] <seb128> Mirv: you should get the po, run the piece of code from the package to update it and upload the update po file to rosetta
[03:01] <Mirv> seb128: I just translated the non-country/language strings in Rosetta, before that there was no translations (in Finnish). so it has to be done manually?
[03:01] <seb128> yep
[03:02] <seb128> the package po/get-iso-codes-i18n file does that
[03:02] <Mirv> okay, will do that, let's hope the advertised Rosetta improvements actually make the uploads fly too ;)
[03:02] <seb128> get the po from rosetta
[03:02] <seb128> use this piece of code
[03:02] <bob2> there has to be a "holy fuck leave my network alone" option for network manager
[03:02] <seb128> and upload your updated po
[03:02] <bob2> aside from killing dbus
[03:04] <daniels> bob2: PLEASE GOD YES
[03:05] <lllmanulll> seb128, Did you solve the problem about untranslatable categories in gnome-panel ?
[03:05] <seb128> lllmanulll: quite of, but I'm really annoyed by this bug let's take that to a query :)
[03:08] <pitti> Hi
[03:09] <Nafallo> morning pitti 
[03:09] <zyga> pitti: hello :)
[03:09] <zyga> I missed you pitti :)
[03:09] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[03:10] <pitti> zyga: just returned from a long hiking tour, we have a holiday here in .de
[03:10] <zyga> pitti: did you rest well? :)
[03:10] <Kamion> pitti: re ubuntu-cve, openssh >= 1:4.0p1-1 is not vulnerable to CAN-2005-2666
[03:10] <pitti> Hi Kamion 
[03:12] <Kamion> hi
[03:12] <pitti> Kamion: humm, it's not marked as vulnerable on unfixed.html??
[03:12] <pitti> cve-nonvulns.txt:CAN-2005-2666 openssh breezy
[03:13] <Kamion> pitti: the Debian version's marked as vulnerable
[03:13] <Kamion> CAN-2005-2666 	
[03:13] <Kamion> openssh [Ubuntu: 3.8.1p1-11ubuntu3.1]  [Debian: 1:4.2p1-4, vulnerable] 
[03:13] <pitti> Kamion: ah, I see
[03:14] <pitti> Kamion: ubuntu-cve can't override that, it's just parsed from the changelog
[03:14] <Kamion> ok, I'll edit history
[03:14] <pitti> Kamion: this Debian part is actually only useful for seeing whether something is fixed
[03:14] <pitti> Kamion: it's handy for checking which universe packages can be synced, and the like
[03:14] <Mirv> seb128: very nicely working script, that get-iso-codes-i18n :) uploading now to Rosetta
[03:15] <seb128> Mirv: cool
[03:15] <seb128> hey pitti
[03:16] <zyga> pitti: when you have a second, tell me about the new all-.pots download utility
[03:16] <doko> hrm, trying to blacklist a driver module (8139too), adding it to /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d/local, then rebuilding the initramfs, but the module is still loaded. what am I doing wrong?
[03:17] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[03:18] <pitti> zyga: carlos' tarballs contain the pot files now
[03:23] <zyga> pitti: where can I fetch them>
[03:23] <pitti> zyga: right now you can't, I can only publish the last tarball I got
[03:24] <zyga> pitti: that's good enough :)
[03:25] <Diziet> jbailey: Can you reproduce that css crash ?  If so I'd like to investigate it.
[03:28] <zyga> pitti: will you accept a trivial, obvious i18n patch for gnome-system-tools
[03:28] <pitti> zyga: sure
[03:29] <ploum> Hello
[03:30] <ploum> is it normal that gksudo doesn't grey out the background anymore ?
[03:30] <desrt> yes
[03:30] <seb128> lu ploum
[03:31] <seb128> ploum: jdub requested to drop that
[03:31] <ploum> hello seb128 
[03:31] <ploum> why dropping that ?
[03:32] <seb128> ask jdub
[03:32] <seb128> basically some people don't like to get the whole screen changing for entering a password that should be a quick stuff
[03:33] <zyga> ploum: AFAIR there were some issues (performace or something)
[03:33] <jdub> it's a bad performance hit, and it's a very scary full screen transition
[03:33] <jdub> we do need to fix window borders and stuff though
[03:33] <ploum> ok, because it's rather strange to have a borderless window. 
[03:33] <zyga> (no chrome - bad)
[03:34] <seb128> hey jdub :)
[03:34] <zyga> carlos: Can't exec "/home/carlos/gnome2/bin/msgmerge": Nie ma takiego pliku ani katalogu at ../intltool-update line 793.
[03:34] <zyga> ekhm!!!
[03:34] <Diziet> jbailey: ping
[03:34] <zyga> gome-system-tools
[03:34] <ploum> but thanx for answers :-)
[03:34] <zyga> cd po && make update-po
[03:38] <jbailey> Diziet: pong
[03:38] <Diziet> Hello.
[03:39] <Diziet> Did I hear right that you have some css which crashes firefox ?
[03:39] <zyga> pitti: what should I do with such an error? I can fix this easily but with automess I don't know what to upload so that others don't have to do this again
[03:40] <pitti> zyga: no idea, that looks odd; maybe you can use /usr/bin/intltool instead of using the package's?
[03:41] <jbailey> Diziet: *sigh* Yes.
[03:41] <zyga> pitti: I did a intloolize  && autoconf && ./configure 
[03:41] <jbailey> Diziet: When used against the new FF start pasge.
[03:41] <tepsipakki> mjg59, anthony: my suspend/sound -worries were fixed by running "alsactl restore" after resume
[03:41] <pitti> zyga: uh, that doesn't qualify as "simple patch" any more
[03:41] <zyga> pitti: that's not the original problem
[03:41] <zyga> pitti: one message was not tagged, I just wanted to update .pot and .po's
[03:42] <pitti> zyga: the pot is automatically generated during package build
[03:42] <Diziet> jbailey: Well, I'd like to fix it.  We can't have it crashing.  It's probably a vulnerability - a good proportion of crashes are.
[03:42] <pitti> zyga: and calling intltool update manually should work, doesn't it?
[03:42] <Diziet> So if you could give me a `how to reproduce' or a reference to a bugzilla bug or something then that would be nice :-).
[03:42] <jbailey> Diziet: Will do, gime a few minutes.
[03:43] <jbailey> Diziet: If it's a potential vulnerability, should I avoid putting it in Bugzilla?
[03:43] <zyga> pitti: hmm, maybe - I can just send the diffs for .c and a pl.po if you're okay with that
[03:44] <Diziet> jbailey: I don't mind.  Email would be fine.  Nicer, even - no web ui to fight :-).
[03:44] <carlos> zyga, hi
[03:44] <carlos> zyga, I'm not that Carlos, sorry....
[03:45] <carlos> I know nothing about gnome-system-tools
[03:45] <jbailey> =)
[03:45] <carlos> zyga, ping 'garnacho' at gimpnet
[03:46] <segfault> pitti: will https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTranslations be merged into the langpacks?
[03:46] <zyga> ah
[03:46] <zyga> carlos: okay - thanks :)
[03:46] <seb128> segfault: I'm working on that atm
[03:46] <pitti> segfault: no, that's not possible
[03:46] <seb128> segfault: and no, language-pack don't ship desktop files
[03:47] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, were the desktop translations uploaded already?
[03:47] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: not sure what you mean, but at Friday I uploaded fresh langpacks
[03:47] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, I mean... ".desktop" files :-D
[03:48] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: read the 3 lines before your question?
[03:48] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: I didn't upload any desktop file update, I wasn't asked to
[03:48] <seb128> am I transparent or something today? :p
[03:48] <WaterSevenUb> seb128, lol :)
[03:49] <bddebian> Hello
[03:49] <pitti> Hi bddebian 
[03:49] <seb128> hi bddebian
[03:49] <bddebian> Hello pitti, seb128
[03:50] <zyga> hello hello hello
[03:52] <bddebian> Hello zyga
[03:53] <segfault> seb128: ah, thanks.
[03:55] <zyga> aw... pitti is gone
[03:56] <zyga> could anone please accept an i18n patch + pl.po for gnome-system-tools
[03:57] <segfault> who else handle langpacks?
[03:59] <seb128> zyga: use rosetta
[04:00] <zyga> seb128: that's a source fix 
[04:00] <zyga> seb128: I can upload the po but it's still useless
[04:01] <seb128> zyga: we are string frozen
[04:01] <zyga> seb128: well then it's a string frozen bug I guess 
[04:01] <seb128> I'm going to do an upload, point me the fix you want to get applied
[04:02] <zyga> http://www.suxx.pl/ubuntu
[04:03] <seb128> k, will use it for the upload
[04:03] <zyga> seb128: the critical thing is: -		return _(g_strdup_printf ("Partition %s", last));
[04:03] <zyga> +		return g_strdup_printf (_("Partition %s"), last);
[04:03] <zyga> someone was blind-tagging stuff I guess
[04:04] <seb128> nice bug :p
[04:05] <zyga> :)
[04:06] <netstar> Shouldn't lspci and lsusb be 64-bit compiled to avoid issues with 64-bit kernels?
[04:06] <netstar> lsusb has some issues with ppc64 breezy, I wondered whether this was the cause
[04:23] <Kamion> segfault: just pitti
[04:23] <ogra> grmpf... where is my gcompris upload gone...
[04:24] <Kamion> ogra: it's sitting in the approvals queue because it has a totally inadequate changelog to justify an upstream bump three days before RC, and I haven't had time to investigate it yet. Read the topic.
[04:24] <Lathiat> unstable black hole?
[04:24] <Lathiat> ah
[04:24] <Lathiat> does rc lockdown including universe?
[04:24] <ogra> Kamion, its the only way to fix it... 
[04:24] <Kamion> Lathiat: no
[04:24] <Lathiat> Kamion: ok
[04:25] <Kamion> ogra: write decent changelogs in future
[04:25] <ogra> ok
[04:25] <Kamion>    * patched to 7.0.2 fixes #15706, #16476 and #16471
[04:25] <Kamion> ... is not helpful to reviewers.
[04:25] <Diziet> Or archaeologists, either :-).
[04:25] <Mithrandir> ogra: what are we doing wrt content filtering?  I've got a user question about it.
[04:25] <Kamion> considering especially that #16471 isn't anything to do with the upstream bump
[04:25] <ogra> yes, patched from cvs7.0.0
[04:26] <Kamion> right, and I'd rather let mdz approve that sort of thing
[04:26] <ogra> Mithrandir, postponed to dapper 
[04:26] <Mithrandir> ogra: ok
[04:26] <Kamion> I have enough to do approving a billion GNOME uploads :)
[04:26] <ogra> Mithrandir, squidguard is in universe
[04:26] <ogra> Kamion, ok
[04:26] <ogra> Mithrandir, dansguardian
[04:26] <ogra> too
[04:32] <jdub> Kamion: you say billion like it's some kind of big number!
[04:32] <seb128> carlos: around?
[04:34] <carlos> seb128, yes
[04:35] <Diziet> kamion: Just FYI, I'm planning a firefox upload tomorrow, to fix: (a) the overly-long title metacity segfault (I can't get a total metacity fix so I'll truncate in firefox) and (b) a few translations in the .desktop.
[04:35] <seb128> carlos: can gnome-system-tools 05_translations be droppeD?
[04:35] <Kamion> Diziet: ok, thanks
[04:35] <carlos> seb128, can I see that file?
[04:35] <carlos> seb128, chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste
[04:35] <seb128> carlos: msgid "Synchronize _Now", msgid "Install NTP support"
[04:35] <carlos> seb128, copy&paste it there, please
[04:36] <seb128> k
[04:36] <seb128> the patch?
[04:36] <netstar> is there anyway ntp sync at boot's timeout be reduced, because it takes ages if not connected?
[04:37] <carlos> seb128, don't worry, what you pasted already is enough
[04:37] <seb128> cool
[04:37] <seb128> thanks
[04:37] <bob2> netstar: it's not ntp's fault.
[04:38] <netstar> it's the client you use though no/
[04:38] <bob2> indeed
[04:38] <seb128> zyga: what is your name? credits for the patch :p
[04:38] <netstar> on my 1.8ghz ppc it doubles the booting time
[04:38] <Nafallo> netstar: is that breezy?
[04:38] <netstar> yes
[04:39] <Nafallo> works fine here, it fails instantly if I'm not connected.
[04:39] <netstar> not here :/
[04:47] <nomed> i compiled the breezy kernel with gcc-3.4 but it seems i have still the same errors .. Unknown Symbol on modprobe module (eg: sbp2|ide-cd)
[04:48] <bob2> why are you re-compiling the kernel?
[04:48] <bob2> also, #ubuntu
[04:48] <nomed> i load the kernel with grub on a cdrom .. is it possible that those errors are related to System.map file ?
[04:48] <nomed> bob2 ok .. 
[04:49] <segfault> pittiiiiii
[04:49] <nomed> bootsplash patch .. just this
[04:49] <segfault> why translations in http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/import-buildd.tar.gz are not up2date?
[04:51] <carlos> seb128, feel free to remove that patch
[04:51] <seb128> carlos: cool, thanks
[04:51] <carlos> seb128, Rosetta has it already
[04:55] <seb128> zyga: ping?
[05:07] <Simira> open applications are still supposed to be shown on the bottom gnome panel bar, right? 
[05:18] <zyga> seb128: pong
[05:18] <zyga> seb128: Zygmunt Krynicki <zkrynicki@gmail.com>
[05:18] <pitti> lifeless: ping
[05:18] <lifeless> pong
[05:19] <seb128> zyga: thanks
[05:19] <zyga> seb128: thank you :-)
[05:19] <Lathiat> pitti: mmm, in the reboot notifications
[05:19] <Lathiat> pitti: we should lose the second 'reboot required'
[05:19] <Lathiat> pitti: else it says it 3 times, once in the title, twice in the body, seems silly ?
[05:19] <zyga> seb128: did you also add the translation or should I upload it to rosetta?
[05:20] <seb128> zyga: rosetta
[05:20] <zyga> seb128: k, uploading
[05:21] <pitti> Lathiat: we recently factored this into one reboot notification
[05:21] <pitti> Lathiat: ah, you mean in the text itself, sorry
[05:21] <pitti> Lathiat: can you please bug mvo about it tomorrow?
[05:21] <zyga> pitti: is it possible to translate the notification system messages?
[05:22] <Lathiat> pitti: ok
[05:22] <pitti> zyga: yes, it is
[05:22] <pitti> zyga: just manual work ATM (the only exception is the reboot notice, which should be in Rosetta)
[05:23] <zyga> pitti: any hints on where to start?
[05:23] <pitti> zyga: there are just two notes ATM - the language pack update and the reboot notice
[05:23] <pitti> zyga: the latter should be in rosetta, translations for the former can go to me
[05:23] <zyga> and the original text?
[05:23] <zyga> (to be sure)
[05:24] <pitti> zyga: look in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/
[05:24] <pitti> zyga: but ignore the notification-2.6.12* kernel thingy, that will go awa
[05:24] <pitti> y
[05:25] <Keybuk> Kamion: which CD would you recommend we give out at Expo?
[05:25] <Keybuk> Preview?  Colony 5?  Daily?
[05:27] <zyga> pitti: k, I'll send you translations okay?
[05:28] <pitti> zyga: for the langpack update?
[05:28] <zyga> pitti: hmm
[05:28] <zyga> ah okay
[05:28] <Lathiat> mjg59: new kernel -> reboot -> loading modules -> depmod -a -> usplash timed out
[05:28] <zyga> hmm
[05:28] <zyga> pitti: wait
[05:29] <zyga> pitti: I checked /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/language-pack-pl_20050701
[05:29] <zyga> and it has lots of non-polish translations too
[05:29] <pitti> zyga: IIRC I already have a polish translation
[05:30] <zyga> pitti: okay I'm stiupid - where are the polish texts again? 
[05:30] <Mirv> does someone happen to know where exactly the strings for breezy's lock dialog are located? I've tried to find them in gksu, gnome-screensaver and xscreensaver.. (not sure about xscreensaver yet as I've to get the whole po file from rosetta first)
[05:30] <pitti> zyga: right in the file, Description-pl and Name-pl
[05:30] <zyga> pitti: the language-pack-pl* has no polish translation, it has german, french and english text
[05:31] <pitti> zyga: hm, I don't have Polish yet
[05:31] <zyga> why is it named -pl if it has french and german then?!?
[05:31] <pitti> zyga: I also have finnish, Portugise, Dutch, and Italian
[05:31] <Lathiat> mjg59: hrm, actually, it just plain take stoo long, and times out every time
[05:31] <pitti> zyga: it is for the Polish language pack
[05:31] <zyga> is this autogenerated by language-support stuff?
[05:31] <pitti> zyga: yes
[05:31] <Lathiat> mjg59: noticed that stage of boot has been long for a long time
[05:32] <zyga> pitti: I have poilsh support and i18n installed - no message though... 
[05:32] <zyga> strange
[05:32] <pitti> zyga: just /msg me the translation, that's easiest
[05:32] <wasabi_> so ubuntu-minimal is about 191M
[05:32] <zyga> pitti: okay
[05:32] <wasabi_> any meta package to get it smaller?
[05:32] <pitti> zyga: I was wrong, I don't have a Polish translation
[05:32] <zyga> pitti: hmm I have polish translation
[05:32] <zyga> no, sorry my mistake
[05:32] <zyga> okay I'll msg you
[05:34] <Lathiat> jdub: is the new ubuntu about page intentionally just black/white ?
[05:34] <Lathiat> jdub: it appears to link to a wrong location for a css file
[05:35] <jbailey> Lathiat: The CSS file was left out intentionally for now because it seemed to cause a segfault in firefox.
[05:35] <jbailey> Lathiat: The about page will be fixed up shortly, but at least this way it's not giving errors for people.
[05:35] <Lathiat> jbailey: oh ok
[05:36] <Lathiat> jbailey: cheers
[05:36] <Lathiat> jbailey: i wont bother filing a bug then
[05:36] <jbailey> "FF default page fUgly"
[05:36] <jbailey> Right, already known. =)
[05:36] <Lathiat> ah
[05:36] <Lathiat> i was looking for one
[05:36] <Lathiat> searchign for css or something
[05:37] <seth_k> any bug including the word "fugly" is always worth bothering to file :P
[05:37] <bddebian> Heh
[05:39] <bddebian> Anyone see a big problem with syncing the newer openswan from Debian?
[05:40] <bddebian> Riddell: ping?
[05:41] <Riddell> bddebian: hi
[05:42] <Lathiat> also, what is the reasoning behidn the Desktop/System menu rename
[05:42] <bddebian> Riddell: Heya.  kvpnc is an rdepend for openswan.  Do you see a problem with bringing in the newer openswan from unstable?
[05:42] <Riddell> pef: you uploaded kvpnc didn't you?
[05:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: Colony 5. Daily *should* be OK at the moment but I haven't QAed it and it would be embarrassing if it were broken
[05:43] <Keybuk> *nods*
[05:43] <Riddell> bddebian: poke pef until he answers
[05:43] <pef> Riddell: yes
[05:43] <bddebian> heh
[05:43] <Keybuk> I can't think of anything majorly bad with C5
[05:43] <Kamion> wasabi_: no
[05:43] <Riddell> pef: see bddebian's question above
[05:44] <Kamion> wasabi_: below that, you have to ditch metapackages and start trimming stuff for yourself
[05:44] <bddebian> Although it appears someone fixed the current openswan so maybe there is no good reason to do it?
[05:47] <wasabi_> seems like a few things in minimal should go... imo anyways
[05:47] <pef> bddebian: are you talking about the 1:2.4.0-1 openswan's revision ?
[05:47] <bddebian> pef: Aye
[05:47] <Kamion> we moved a bunch out to standard in breezy, but more suggestions are certainly welcome
[05:47] <wasabi_> like, alsa?
[05:48] <Kamion> that needs to be in minimal because it needs to be installed in the first stage in order to get hotplug blacklists installed by the time of the first reboot
[05:48] <Kamion> or at least that was the reason last time I checked
[05:48] <wasabi_> Hmm. That's holding python in too it looks like
[05:48] <bddebian> pef: It builds/installs clean but maybe it's unnecessary ?
[05:49] <Kamion> wasabi_: python ain't coming out as long as Mark is in charge
[05:49] <pef> bddebian: I don't see problems about this sync
[05:49] <bddebian> pef: OK, I'll ask elmo.  Thanks
[05:50] <daniels> seb128: thanks man
[05:50] <pef> bddebian: kvpnc last version is released today, I will test with openswan 
[05:50] <bddebian> pef: OK, great
[05:50] <seb128> daniels: np, do you have any idea of what's wrong and if you can change that for 5.10?
[05:50] <daniels> seb128: i have a vague idea what this is, but dunno if I can fix it for breezy
[05:50] <daniels> hah! anticipated your question
[05:50] <seb128> :)
[05:50] <seb128> what is the issue?
[05:51] <daniels> basically, I think pipe setup and mode validation are happening in the wrong order in one very specific instance
[05:51] <Kamion> wasabi_: also, we have python-minimal in essential, and we made a commitment to the python developers that we would never ship real systems (i.e. discounting ones people put together themselves out of our packages in unusual ways) with python-minimal but without python
[05:51] <daniels> of course this would all be a lot easier if I actually had one of these laptops to test with, as with anything, but I'll do what I can
[05:51] <zyga> language-selector is a really crappy name
[05:51] <zyga> it is very difficult to translate
[05:53] <wasabi_> Hmm.
[05:53] <WaterSevenUb> zyga, there is a helpful script that uses iso-codes... see the log of this channel 2 hours ago.
[05:53] <Kamion> wasabi_: (because apparently it makes the python developers' lives harder when they get lots of bug reports from systems that turn out to have only bits of python installed, rather than the whole thing)
[05:53] <Mirv> hmm, ok.. could someone with a non-English breezy check if the locked screen's dialog is translated? that way I'd at least know that it's translatable somewhere
[05:53] <zyga> WaterSevenUb: ?
[05:53] <zyga> WaterSevenUb: I ment the name itself 'language-selector'
[05:55] <seb128> daniels: that's a desktop, not a laptop
[05:56] <daniels> seb128: er, laptops -> machines
[05:56] <daniels> my brain is fried
[05:57] <mdz> morning
[05:57] <pitti> Hi mdz
[06:02] <wasabi_> Kamion, I don't mind customizing this myself, just having a clean "it is good for an embedded system" starting point would be nice.
[06:02] <Kamion> seb128: gnome-panel FTBFS everywhere
[06:03] <Kamion> checking for CLOCK... configure: error: Package requirements (gtk+-2.0 >= 2.7.1 libgnomeui-2.0 >= 2.5.4 libecal-1.2 >= 0.0.97 libedataserverui-1.2 >= 1.2.0) were not met.
[06:03] <seb128> Kamion: I'll fix that, thanks
[06:03] <bddebian> Heya mdz
[06:04] <seb128> Kamion: will fix wnck too
[06:04] <Kamion> I hadn't noticed that one yet
[06:06] <Kamion> daniels: the changes to debian/scripts/vars and debian/scripts/vars.hppa in xorg -74 look like a misapplied patch (although they're harmless)
[06:08] <Lathiat> hrm, new gnome splash is interesting, not sure i 100% like it tho
[06:09] <bddebian> Uhm, WTF is this in /usr/include/linux/config.h??
[06:09] <bddebian> #error "Compilation aborted. Please read the FAQ for linux-libc-headers package$
[06:09] <bddebian> #error "(can be found at http://ep09.pld-linux.org/~mmazur/linux-libc-headers/d$
[06:09] <daniels> bd	as it says ...
[06:09] <Kamion> it looks like an instruction to read the FAQ to me
[06:09] <daniels> kami	gar! frig.  i'll sort tat in the morning with -75.
[06:10] <Kamion> daniels: no rush to upload *just* for this, as I say it's harmless
[06:10] <daniels> Kamion: okay
[06:10] <segfault> seb128: can you fix http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16448?
[06:10] <daniels> i'm going to sleep now (hell, the west oast is up and about) anyway, so it's not going to get done before then. ;)
[06:12] <seb128> segfault: no, I don't maintain this package
[06:12] <bddebian> Kamion: Aye but I'm not sure I understand the FAQ :-(
[06:14] <Mirv> mjg59: the latest acpi/someother update seemingly broke Suspend-to-RAM on my laptop, I've tried multiple reboots etc. before that I sent you an e-mail with dmidecode output saying that it works...
[06:14] <Kamion> bddebian: "don't include stuff in linux/*.h or asm/*.h from userspace"
[06:14] <Kamion> (paraphrase)
[06:15] <Kamion> kernel headers don't provide a stable interface. you're supposed to use the glibc headers where available, or if not - though it may seem barmy - copy the specific definitions you need from the kernel headers into your package
[06:16] <Kamion> things like kernel syscall interfaces are very stable anyway
[06:16] <mdke> Kamion, thanks for your reply on the docteam string change, I've replied
[06:17] <Kamion> mdke: ok - it didn't make it to ubuntu-doc@ due to moderation though
[06:17] <mdke> Kamion, ok someone will push it through
[06:17] <mdke> as long as jbailey gets them :)
[06:19] <Kamion> daniels: how much testing has this i830 change had?
[06:19] <Kamion> daniels: ("> 0" is an acceptable answer :-))
[06:19] <mako> jdub: pong
[06:19] <daniels> Kamion: >0, yes
[06:19] <Kamion> ok, good
[06:20] <Kamion> you left a junk file around in the top directory, confused me for a bit while debdiffing
[06:20] <daniels> Kamion: the change looks obviously okay to me.  had never been bitten by that bug, and just as I was in the middle of compiling with that fix, it bit me for the first time.  go figure.
[06:20] <daniels> oh, fun.  oh well, -75 for the cleanup, I guess.
[06:21] <segfault> humm, weird. "System->About Ubuntu" is gone. Is this expected?
[06:22] <mdke> no
[06:23] <Nafallo> hmm
[06:23] <Kamion> mdz: gcompris in queue/accepted/ is yours to review as far as I'm concerned - I'd have rejected it at this stage except that it seems to be critical for Edubuntu
[06:23] <Nafallo> here to :-P
[06:23] <segfault> maybe gnome-panel missed something?
[06:24] <bddebian> Kamion: Ahh, then any suggestion on what to do with openmosix? :)
[06:24] <bddebian> Kamion: And thx btw
[06:24] <vuntz> segfault: this is probably because the file for about ubuntu is not there anymore
[06:24] <mdke> segfault, file a bug pls
[06:24] <mdz> ogra: ?
[06:24] <Kamion> bddebian: that depends on what it's trying to use from kernel headers and what glibc provides; you'll have to investigate
[06:25] <bddebian> Kamion: Bah, that sounds too much like work. ;-P
[06:26] <wasabi_> So what about an ubuntu nano?
[06:26] <wasabi_> which is seriously nothing except what is neccassary to boot.
[06:27] <azeem> boot into GNOME?
[06:27] <segfault> can't do it right now
[06:27] <segfault> i have to go
[06:28] <mdke> oh well i can reproduce that
[06:28] <mdke> segfault, i'll file it
[06:30] <Kamion> wasabi_: there's a spec for it - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%c2%b5buntu
[06:30] <Kamion> but it needs people to work on it
[06:30] <Nafallo> should I have the gnome-foot at my toppanel now or the ubuntulogo?
[06:31] <seb128> depending if ubuntu-artwork is installed
[06:31] <Nafallo> it is
[06:31] <Nafallo> but it's still a foot
[06:31] <seb128> so you should have it if you have restarted your panel
[06:32] <mdke> jbailey, #16916 for you :)
[06:32] <Nafallo> this change was some days ago, right?
[06:32] <mdke> yes
[06:32] <seb128> Nafallo: ls -l /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/distributor-logo.png && dpkg -l gnome-panel
[06:33] <Nafallo> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 4345 2005-09-30 11:10 /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/distributor-logo.png
[06:33] <Nafallo> ii  gnome-panel    2.12.0-0ubuntu4 launcher and docking facility for GNOME 2
[06:34] <seb128> Nafallo: should work
[06:34] <vuntz> if it doesn't work, then it's seb128's fault ;-)
[06:34] <seb128> vuntz: who provided this patch, hum? :)
[06:34] <Nafallo> I'll reinstall the packages ;-)
[06:34] <vuntz> seb128: can't remember :-)
[06:34] <seb128> sure, reinstalling will change the code
[06:34] <seb128> that's not windows :)
[06:34] <ivoks> :)
[06:34] <Nafallo> hehe
[06:35] <seb128> you should better strace it to know what happens
[06:35] <Diziet> Damn, I'm having to run etags on the ffox source.
[06:35] <ivoks> well, gnome isn't so far with gregedit, err, gcong :)
[06:35] <ivoks> typing in dark...
[06:35] <seb128> ivoks: that's what people who don't know gconf usually say :)
[06:36] <ivoks> seb128: i admit, i don't know it so well...
[06:36] <Kamion> Diziet: see you in a week, then ...
[06:37] <Nafallo> is there a way to kill gnome-panel without having it respawning now? ;-)
[06:37] <seb128> gnome-session-remove gnome-panel
[06:38] <doko> Kamion: with todays OOo2-amd64 upload, the deps on -base (in -evolution and -gnome) are gone on all architectures
[06:38] <vuntz> seb128: it seems you're ready to become a gnome-panel maintainer :-)
[06:38] <Nafallo> hmm, I should have told the trace to got to a file ;-)
[06:39] <seb128> strace -e open
[06:39] <ogra> mdz, ?
[06:40] <bddebian> OK screw openmosix
[06:40] <ivoks> bddebian: ?
[06:40] <mdz> ogra: <Kamion> mdz: gcompris in queue/accepted/ is yours to review as far as I'm concerned - I'd have rejected it at this stage except that it seems to be critical for Edubuntu
[06:40] <bddebian> ivoks: I was trying to build openmosix but there's some weirdness about it.
[06:40] <ivoks> bddebian: /me has years of exp. with openmosix... need a hand?
[06:40] <ogra> mdz, ah, yes
[06:41] <mdke> jbailey, given you back #3985 too
[06:41] <ogra> mdz, i had to bump the patch from 7.0.0 to 7.0.2 for the fixes... and added a good bunh of missing icons
[06:41] <Nafallo> seb128: it should show up with grep dist tmp/gnome-panel.txt, right? :-)
[06:41] <ogra> bunch even
[06:41] <bddebian> ivoks: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=232810
[06:41] <mdz> ogra: what patch?
[06:41] <ogra> mdz, it doesnt affect ubuntu 
[06:41] <ogra> the dpatch in the package
[06:42] <mdz> ogra: can you explain why it is critical for Ubuntu?
[06:42] <mdz> er, edubuntu?
[06:42] <ogra> its a essential package 
[06:42] <seb128> Nafallo: yep
[06:42] <Nafallo> seb128: doesn't ;-)
[06:42] <seb128> Nafallo: are you sure that you run gnome-panel from the package?
[06:42] <ogra> mdz, its a core component and the 7.0.0 patch fixed ftbfs but had still bugs apparently
[06:43] <ogra> mdz, most critical a lot missing icons...
[06:43] <Nafallo> seb128: yes, but I could add the full path to be safe.
[06:43] <ogra> mdz, which made the admin interface pretty useless..
[06:43] <mdz> ogra: why are the icons missing?
[06:44] <ogra> mdz, because they were not in cvs ... 6.5.3 had no admin interface... the ftbfs fix added it too.. abut it wasnt complete... 
[06:44] <Nafallo> seb128: no change
[06:46] <ogra> mdz, partially explained in #15706 and #16476
[06:46] <mdz> ogra: so this bug has existed since August 4th?
[06:46] <mdz> that's when 7.0.0 was uploaded
[06:46] <Nafallo> same with a reinstall of gnome-panel gnome-panel-data ubuntu-artwork, just for the fun of it...
[06:47] <Kamion> doko: hooray, thanks
[06:47] <ogra> mdz, yes, but the icons didnt before 7.0.1 was released and the last version was puled partially from cvs 
[06:47] <ogra> pulled even
[06:47] <jbailey> mdke: re: 16916, from which menu?
[06:47] <Kamion> doko: although a bit late for tocd3.1
[06:47] <mdke> jbailey, system - about ubuntu is gone
[06:48] <mdke> jbailey, changed the path or something?
[06:48] <seb128> Nafallo: what arch?
[06:48] <Nafallo> seb128: amd64
[06:48] <jbailey> Yeah, I moved the path, but I thought seb128 said that it didn't need the path.
[06:48] <ogra> mdz, in fact it fixes more than it even *could* break... i'd have adde it a week ago, but the screensaver was higher priority and gcompris simply takes ages to fix and testcompile...
[06:48] <seb128> jbailey: when did I say that?
[06:48] <ogra> *added
[06:48] <seb128> jbailey: the panel look for the file to add the menu item
[06:49] <jbailey> seb128: Doesn't the Systme,  propos Ubuntu just clyelp with a parameter?
[06:49] <mdke> whoosh
[06:49] <jbailey> call yelp, rather.
[06:49] <jbailey> mdke: I haven't seen that yet, because I haven't logged out of this session. *sigh*
[06:49] <mdke> jbailey, you don't need to
[06:49] <mdke> the panel updates all the time
[06:49] <jbailey> mdke: It's still here on mine, then...
[06:50] <seb128> jbailey: right, but the panel code for that is 
[06:50] <seb128> 	if (g_file_test (DATADIR"/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml",
[06:50] <seb128> 			 G_FILE_TEST_IS_REGULAR))
[06:50] <seb128> 		panel_menu_items_append_from_desktop (menu, "ubuntu-about.desktop", NULL);
[06:50] <mdke> i just updated and saw it without killing the panel
[06:50] <mdke> jbailey, updated recently?
[06:50] <jbailey> mdke: A dozen times with my packages when I was working on them yesterday.
[06:50] <vuntz> seb128: hrm
[06:50] <vuntz> seb128: shouldn't it test if the desktop file exists?
[06:50] <seb128> vuntz: oh, shut up now! :)
[06:50] <mdke> jbailey, hmm
[06:50] <mdke> jbailey, well i only just got it with today's update
[06:50] <seb128> vuntz: no, the same package ship it
[06:50] <mdke> this mornings was fine
[06:51] <vuntz> seb128: .desktop and .xml are in the same desktop?
[06:51] <jbailey> mdke: Strange, I guess something else caused a refresh.
[06:51] <jbailey> seb128: Where's that code so I can fix it?
[06:51] <seb128> vuntz: no, the desktop is with gnome-panel, the xml is not
[06:51] <bddebian> Could one of you main types take a look at this Malone bug with my debdiff?: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/xfonts-terminus/+bug/2344
[06:51] <vuntz> seb128: this is... broken. :-)
[06:51] <seb128> jbailey: on my disk, what is to fix? I've to do an upload anyway
[06:51] <seb128> vuntz: how so?
[06:52] <vuntz> seb128: .desktop file should be provided by the package with the .xml
[06:52] <jbailey> mdke: I was doing all my tests with LANG=FOO yelp; so I could test it in the various languages. =)
[06:52] <mdz> ogra: why is 7.0.2 packaged as a patch instead of a new upstream?
[06:52] <vuntz> it makes more sens
[06:52] <vuntz> e
[06:52] <seb128> vuntz: doesn't make a difference
[06:52] <Nafallo> seb128: can I do something else to figure out why it doesn't work here?
[06:52] <mdke> jbailey, i'm seeing it in en
[06:52] <vuntz> seb128: well... it seems more logical to me
[06:52] <mdke> jbailey, segfault reported it with pt_BR
[06:52] <vuntz> seb128: but I'll shut up :-)
[06:52] <seb128> Nafallo: ask vuntz he wrote this patch
[06:53] <Nafallo> vuntz: ^ :-)
[06:53] <Kamion> mdz: think it would be a good idea to take openoffice.org2-base (the database component) off the CD?
[06:53] <ogra> mdz, because it enhances the already existing dpatch and you forbid a completly new upstream version... 
[06:53] <vuntz> Nafallo: apt-get install gnome-panel-dbg
[06:53] <mdz> ogra: I'm not happy about it, but I've approved the upload.  test it as soon as it builds and make sure it hasn't obviously regressed
[06:53] <seb128> vuntz: I've a lot of other stuff on my list before moving stuff that work :)
[06:53] <vuntz> Nafallo: gnome-session remove gnome-panel && gdb gnome-panel
[06:53] <Kamion> ogra: hiding new upstream versions in patches is deprecated
[06:53] <ogra> mdz, i did nothing else the whole weekend, its tested and runs fine
[06:54] <mdz> ogra: the upstream version restrictions are about new code; packaging new upstream code in a patch doesn't let you bypass the release guidelines
[06:54] <vuntz> Nafallo: need to find the right function. wait a minute :-)
[06:54] <mdz> ogra: you need to test the binaries that we are actually going to ship
[06:54] <ogra> mdz, ok. i'll regard that in the future
[06:54] <ogra> mdz, yup, i know... i dont expect them to work different, but will test them as well as i did with the others
[06:54] <Nafallo> vuntz: oki.
[06:54] <doko> Kamion, mdz: I see, that -base is explicitely mentioned in the ubuntu-docs firefox start page
[06:55] <Kamion> ah
[06:55] <mdz> Kamion: isn't it a dependency of the package we seed?
[06:55] <Kamion> that would make translators' lives difficult
[06:55] <vuntz> Nafallo: br panel_get_distributor_logo
[06:55] <Kamion> mdz: not any more; doko removed that dependency so that we could remove it from TheOpenCD
[06:55] <vuntz> Nafallo: run
[06:55] <Kamion> mdz: well, it's a metapackage dependency, but that's all
[06:55] <vuntz> Nafallo: let's continue in a /query :-)
[06:55] <mdz> I absolutely hate that name, by the way
[06:55] <mdz> "Base"
[06:56] <Kamion> but it sounds like it's better to consider it one of FirstAgainstTheWall for dapper
[06:56] <Kamion> mdz: <aol>
[06:56] <mdz> Kamion: if the dependency is gone, it will just fall out on its own, no?
[06:56] <mdke> argh
[06:56] <mdke> openoffice-base is not in breezy?
[06:56] <Kamion> mdz: nah, the old problem was that -core or something depended on it so you couldn't remove it even with seed changes
[06:56] <Kamion> mdke: you are reacting prematurely
[06:56] <mdke> nono
[06:57] <mdke> i'm not reacting, just curious
[06:57] <Kamion> openoffice.org2-base | 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu3 |        breezy | i386, powerpc
[06:57] <mdz> it is late in the day to consider it
[06:57] <Kamion> mdke: we were discussing a possible change, but seems like it's too late
[06:57] <doko> the openoffice.org2 meta package depends on it
[06:57] <ogra> mdz, several people asked me about the workaround you would have provided for the NFs timeout bug for ltsp, what is this fix ? there is nothing added to #12942 except the kernel opts that wont work with our initramfs
[06:57] <mdke> Kamion, np, sorry if i sounded a bit ott
[06:57] <mdz> ogra: I don't know what you mean
[06:58] <mdz> ogra: I added a sleep which seemed to cause it to trigger less often
[06:58] <segfault> back
[06:58] <mdz> ogra: has anyone tested the kernel parameters?
[06:58] <ogra> mdz, someone told someone in #edubuntu you'd have worked out a workaround with jim mc quillian to somehow provide the parameters to te kernel, but he couldnt remember how
[06:59] <highvoltage> ogra: where can i find these kernel parameters? i can test it now.
[06:59] <ogra> mdz, doesnt work, they dont get handed out through initramfs
[06:59] <jbailey> ogra: Any idea why?
[06:59] <ivoks> seb128: ping
[06:59] <ivoks> can somebody check something for me?
[06:59] <ogra> jbailey, nope, but you wanted to add nfs options, remember ? 
[07:00] <ivoks> in g-v-m, what's the command for adding printer?
[07:00] <ivoks> gnome-printer-add or gnome-cups-add?
[07:00] <ogra> highvoltage, #12942
[07:00] <jbailey> mdke: Ah, it's the gnome-about update I think that triggered it to notice the file not there.
[07:00] <dholbach> hi
[07:00] <mdke> jbailey, aha
[07:00] <seb128> hey dholbach 
[07:00] <seb128> ivoks: pong
[07:00] <dholbach> hey seb :)
[07:00] <Diziet> It's very strange, this firefox source.  It's huge, but every time I want to change something there's only about one place I need to do it.  It makes me wonder what all of the rest of it is doing.
[07:00] <ivoks> seb128: i'm looking at gnome-volume-manager
[07:00] <ogra> mdz, apparently it works if the parameters reach the kernel... but they dont get through through a MOPTS commandline
[07:00] <ivoks> seb128: it says gnome-printer-add
[07:01] <Diziet> Normally with giant bloatware it's so full of clone-and-hack that any change has to be made many times.
[07:01] <ivoks> seb128: shouldn't it say gnome-cups-add?
[07:01] <mdz> ogra: MOPTS?
[07:01] <jbailey> ogra: If there's something you need, just say, or just add it.  You're the only ones who are really using that code.
[07:01] <seb128> ivoks: dunno, pitti maintains this code
[07:01] <ivoks> seb128: ah, sorry
[07:01] <ogra> mdz, yes, the provided fix in the bug
[07:01] <mdz> jbailey: what's the best way to provide parameters for modules loaded in initramfs?
[07:01] <mdz> jbailey: will /etc/modprobe.d work?
[07:02] <jbailey> mdz: If it's copied in, it will be respected, yes.
[07:02] <jbailey> mdz: I don't copy it in right now.
[07:02] <mdz> ogra: MOPTS is an ltsp-specific thinig
[07:02] <ogra> mdz, yes, thats y prob
[07:02] <ogra> my
[07:02] <jbailey> mdz: But I'm just using the system modprobe, so anything that it respects will also be repsected in the initramfs.
[07:02] <mdz> jbailey: right, I meant having a hook script copy one it
[07:02] <mdz> in
[07:02] <azeem> Diziet: maybe it's a giant distributed effort to calculate the true name of god.
[07:02] <jbailey> mdz: Is it consistantly the same, or will it vary from system to system?
[07:03] <mdz> jbailey: it will be universal
[07:03] <jbailey> mdz: If you use manual_add_modules modules paramters
[07:03] <jbailey> mdz: It ought to pass them in, too.
[07:03] <jbailey> So which every way is easiest for you.
[07:04] <jbailey> Or I guess force_load modules parameters
[07:04] <jbailey> if you always want it loaded.
[07:04] <jbailey> module singular there.
[07:05] <ogra> mdz, initramfs tools apparently provides and nfs opts parameter, but jbailey told me its not yet implemented... and after i was told that someone was in #edubuntu while i was away who had a workaround provided from you i was wondering how to do it...
[07:05] <spayne> what is going on with lists.ubuntu.com?
[07:05] <ogra> s/and/an/
[07:05] <mdz> ogra: I see no evidence of someone having tested whether rsize/wsize actually fix the problem as observed in breezy
[07:05] <jbailey> ogra: Looking at it a workaround could be to add them after the ROOTPATH by separating it with a space.  That's fragile, though.
[07:06] <jbailey> ogra: Adding the extra variable is changing one line in the NFS only script, though, for testing.
[07:07] <mdz> ogra: just hand-edit the nfs script and modify the mount command line to test it
[07:07] <ogra> mdz, its hrd to prove if you cant get the parameters through :) i'll test what jbailey said...
[07:07] <mdz> see if it actually works before we try to implement it
[07:07] <ogra> yup
[07:07] <mdz> ogra: this is trivial
[07:07] <mdz> ogra:         nfsmount ${roflag} ${NFSROOT} ${rootmnt}
[07:07] <mdz> edit that line in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs
[07:07] <ogra> thanks :)
[07:08] <mdz> nfsmount -o rsize=2048,wsize=2048  ${roflag} ${NFSROOT} ${rootmnt}
[07:08] <mdz> ogra: then dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-...
[07:08] <ogra> yup
[07:08] <mdz> then sudo ltsp-update-kernels outside the chroot
[07:09] <ogra> mdz, i'd like to rip out the sessions menu from ldm as long as we dont provide any... ok with you ?
[07:10] <ogra> lang should stay though
[07:10] <mdz> jbailey: I thought nfs.ko allowed defaults for these parameters to be set as module parameters, but it doesn't, so if this workaround works, we'll need to do it in initramfs (basically the change I just explained to ogra)
[07:11] <mdz> ogra: the nfs test is more important
[07:11] <ogra> mdz, for me both is  :)
[07:11] <mdz> ogra: one causes thin clients to completely fail to boot, the other is a confusing non-functional menu item
[07:11] <mdz> ogra:  there is no comparison
[07:12] <ogra> mdz, i didnt compare them, but its on my edubuntu buglist :)
[07:12] <mdz> it is not a showstopper
[07:12] <mdz> but it should be simple and safe
[07:12] <ogra> nope, thats true
[07:13] <mdz> so it is reasonable, but only after higher-priority items are fixed
[07:13] <ogra> yup
[07:13] <jbailey> mdz: 'kay.  Hardcode that, or do you want another variable read in from the conffile?
[07:15] <mdz> jbailey: from the file is fine, so long as it's set by default
[07:15] <jbailey> 'k.  I'll wait for the success report.
[07:16] <wasabi_> wonder if grub can read from vfat
[07:16] <dredg> it can
[07:16] <wasabi_> yippy
[07:17] <dredg> i have kept my grub directory on C: more than once
[07:17] <dholbach> hey dredg 
[07:17] <dredg> dholbach: hi
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, another thing, do you want mknbi shipped by default ? i think its approved now... 
[07:18] <Riddell> mdz: can I upload the adept release candidate (and final release tomorrow)?
[07:19] <mdz> Riddell: what's changed from the version we have?
[07:19] <bddebian> ogra: Finish fixing tyvis will ya. ;-P
[07:19] <Riddell> mdz: I sent you the changelog by e-mail last thursday
[07:20] <ogra> bddebian, nope
[07:20] <mdz> ogra: no; we've never been able to test whether it works properly
[07:20] <ogra> bddebian, at least not before edubuntu is in shape
[07:20] <bddebian> ogra: :)
[07:20] <ogra> mdz, Yagisan tested it several times
[07:20] <ogra> mdz, he uses etherboot images
[07:20] <mdz> Riddell: ok, will review
[07:21] <mdz> ogra: so it works for him by simply installing mknbi and running ltsp-update-kernels?
[07:21] <ogra> mdz, (but he tests in vmware)
[07:21] <ogra> mdz, i wnated to aks for a howto for the wiki
[07:21] <ogra> havent done it yet
[07:22] <mdz> ogra: can you give me a URL for his success report?
[07:22] <ogra> mdz, only the #edubuntu logs
[07:22] <mdz> Riddell: does it require a new tagcoll?
[07:22] <ogra> some time before i started with xscreensaver again, i'll look it up for you and mail you the url
[07:23] <mdz> Riddell: this changelog is not only bugfixes
[07:23] <Riddell> mdz: yes I think it needs tagcoll 0.3.3
[07:42] <Lathiat> mm, so i found the drawing code in notification daemon that buggeres up the arrow position
[07:42] <Lathiat> and next to it it has a nice comment /* HACK! HACK! HACK! */
[07:42] <Lathiat> mmmm. :)
[07:44] <ivoks> :)
[07:56] <Nafallo> seb128: the problem was /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache.
[07:56] <seb128> ah ah
[07:56] <seb128> slaps jdub
[07:56] <Nafallo> maybe we would want to run gtk-update-icon-cache -f in postinst or something? :-)
[08:00] <seb128> Nafallo: no, we want not make any cache for hicolor
[08:00] <seb128> Nafallo: because that's what happen if every single app that install an icon to this dir is not patched
[08:00] <seb128> Nafallo: jdub screwed
[08:00] <Nafallo> hehe, oki :-)
[08:07] <Riddell> Kamion: is it possible to get kubuntu/edubuntu themed usplash on the live CD?  does it just need to be seeded?
[08:17] <Kamion> Riddell: it's already seeded; I'd've thought that would be enough
[08:17] <Riddell> oh yes, from the desktop seed
[08:17] <Riddell> but doesn't seem to work using today's kubuntu live cd
[08:17] <Kamion> check whether kubuntu-artwork-usplash is installed
[08:20] <Riddell> Kamion: how can I check that (not got the CD booted up just now)
[08:20] <mjg59> Riddell: I've just reassigned a bug to KDM, but it seems to have been attached to debzilla.
[08:20] <zyga> hi
[08:21] <zyga> did anyone notice that recently nautilus-cd-burner causes the recorder to *!@#$ after recording a cd?
[08:21] <Riddell> mjg59: number?
[08:21] <zyga> the drive breaks hard and kernel hangs after trying to mount the cd (after reboot things are well)
[08:23] <mjg59> riddel: 16485
[08:24] <sivang> Morning all
[08:25] <sivang> TB meeting is in 20 minutes right?
[08:26] <mdz> Riddell: that amarok changelog URL doesn't work for me
[08:26] <mdz> times out
[08:29] <Riddell> mdz: their webserver seems to have died
[08:29] <Riddell> mdz: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:mQfq-spaD9YJ:amarok.kde.org/content/view/60/66/+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
[08:33] <mdz> Riddell: it's a new feature release
[08:33] <ogra> jbailey, mdz, setting nfs options doesnt change it
[08:33] <mdz> ogra: :-/
[08:33] <mdz> ogra: please comment in bugzilla
[08:34] <ogra> mdz, any idea why we start portmap twice ? (one time in rcS and onetime in the runlevel ?)
[08:34] <mdz> ogra: do you have a repeatable test case?
[08:34] <mjg59> Mirv: "Broke suspend to RAM" is not a useful bug report
[08:34] <mdz> Riddell: if alsasink is the important bit, perhaps that can be backported
[08:34] <mjg59> Mirv: Please file something in Bugzilla describing the hardware and how it fails
[08:35] <Riddell> mdz: ok, I'll ask the developers if that's possible
[08:35] <mdz> ogra: we start it 3 times I think :-)
[08:35] <mdz> rcS.d/S43portmap, rcS.d/S45mountnfs.sh, rc2.d/S18portmap
[08:36] <ogra> mdz, yup, i even tried noloc, and setting the values to 1024, 4096 and 8192 didnt help either, but i had one case where it booted right through after shuffling portmap after nfs (not reproducable) ... i'll do more testing here, i think its some kind of race condidtion rather than a module or nfs-server thing
[08:36] <mdz> ogra: it fails before even mounting root; I don't see how anything in init could change things
[08:36] <\sh> Riddell: amarok-1.3.2? lets backport it when dapper is opened, we will have enough problems with updated sqlite stuff 
[08:37] <ogra> mdz, i doubt its something on the client side
[08:37] <mdz> ogra: oh, you mean moving portmap on the server?
[08:37] <ogra> yes
[08:37] <ogra> it worked once , i have no idea why
[08:37] <ogra> (it never worked for me on first boot here)
[08:37] <mdz> they are nfs requests which are not receiving responses, right?
[08:37] <mdz> not portmap requests
[08:38] <ogra> yup
[08:42] <Kamion> Riddell: it's not in the .manifest files; I assume that it was promoted to main after the last livefs build
[08:42] <sivang> mvo: Hi, have you sorted the lpi warnings already?
[08:42] <mvo> sivang: no, sorry
[08:42] <Kamion> Riddell: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/, the .manifest files say what's in the livefs images
[08:43] <sivang> mvo: no it's, I want to work one some trivial stuff / non intrusive , so I'll try work on them some
[08:43] <sivang> *ok
[08:43] <Kamion> sivang: no, today's Monday, TB meeting's Tuesday
[08:43] <sivang> Kamion: ah k, thanks, I think it's stated 3rd Oct on the #u-m topic
[08:44] <Riddell> Kamion: it's on the install CD 
[08:44] <ogra> sivang, help with some MOTU stuff... thats all non intrusive ;)
[08:44] <ogra> sivang, tyvis needs someones love i heard... ask bddebian 
[08:44] <bddebian> sivang: Yeah, I have a big list.. ;-)
[08:44] <bddebian> tyvis, gnat-gps, cyphesis-cpp
[08:44] <Kamion> Riddell: the live CD build process is more complicated and involves more cron jobs
[08:44] <sivang> ogra: after lpi warnings? ;) (it's in main...)
[08:45] <Kamion> not all on the same machine and not all directly controlled by me
[08:45] <ogra> sivang, as you like ;)
[08:46] <segfault> ogra: when you play with xscreensaver again, could you fix bugzilla's #16448?
[08:47] <ogra> segfault, there are only two bugs on my prio list for xscreensaver now.. let me see
[08:47] <segfault> ogra: it's easy, just change the desktop name
[08:48] <ogra> segfault, thats already the fix  ?
[08:48] <ogra> (the mentioned one in the bug ?)
[08:48] <ogra> then i'll fix it in the next upload
[08:49] <segfault> ogra: yeah
[08:49] <ogra> :)
[08:50] <segfault> ogra: just change some chars, heh
[08:50] <ogra> oki
[08:51] <zyga> mvo: good evening :-)
[08:53] <sivang> 'vening zyga 
[08:53] <sivang> zyga: found pitti eventually?
[08:53] <jdong> I'm investigating backporting launchpad-integration from Breezy to Hoary... (as recommended by mdz) -- any objections or pointers?
[08:54] <zyga> sivang: yes :)
[08:54] <mvo> hey zyga 
[08:54] <zyga> I'm trying to get ruby application working
[08:54] <zyga> ruby --version shows 1.8.3
[08:54] <zyga> apt-cache show ruby | grep -i version says 1.8.2
[08:55] <zyga> people say that 1.8.3 is broken and should never be used
[08:55] <zyga> could anyone give me a hint on what to do?
[08:57] <jdong> ogra: it's a helluva lot faster than ext3... I can feel it on my secondary system
[08:58] <jdong> (and I've yet to have any catastrophes with it, unlike XFS :) )
[08:58] <ogra> jdong, i'd rather take jfs/xfs than something hans reiser designed ;)
[08:58] <jdong> carstenh:  already did that 
[08:58] <jdong> ogra: jfs is damn slow; XFS has lost me a lot of data
[08:58] <jdong> dholbach: explain?
[08:58] <carstenh> jdong: ok, then using reiserfs is not a risk :)
[08:58] <jdong> lol
[08:58] <ogra> jdong, its a matter of being able to use xfsrepair ;)
[08:59] <dholbach> jdong: i can't... i was just trolling
[08:59] <jdong> ogra: I've always confused xfsrepair with rm -rf random_directory_list
[08:59] <dholbach> jdong: the imagination of "it's faster - we left out the double-checks" was just too tempting :)
[09:00] <bob2> fsck.resierfs appears to  be a shell script that does "cat /dev/urandom > $1"
[09:00] <jdong> bob2: I thought that was xfs_repair?
[09:00] <sivang> bob2: LOL
[09:00] <sivang> guys, just use ext3 :)
[09:00] <sivang> sweet, sound and safe
[09:00] <jdong> but seriously, nothing against XFS... it's a wonderful FS if I can guarantee my system doesn't go down
[09:00] <jdong> sivang: don't mention takes forever, too
[09:00] <ogra> sivang, doesnt work if youre a speed junkie ;)
[09:01] <jdong> back on topic... any objections to lp-integration"?
[09:01] <ogra> not at all
[09:01] <ogra> you'll need it anyway for all backports
[09:02] <jdong> ogra: yeah, as I'm realizing :)
[09:02] <ogra> and its trivially small :)
[09:02] <sivang> jdong: lp-integration is my middle name, any questios? :)
[09:02] <ogra> sivang, backports o hoary :)
[09:02] <jdong> sivang: does it do anything else other than add an annoying translate link to every program?
[09:02] <ogra> to even
[09:02] <jdong> sivang: j/k :)
[09:03] <Nafallo> yes, a support link to :-)
[09:03] <jdong> LOL
[09:04] <zyga> anyone knows ruby here?
[09:04] <ogra> zyga, some guys in -motu do
[09:05] <jdong> zyga: isn't that a currency in some zelda game?
[09:05] <zyga> jdong: no, that's ruppies
[09:05] <jdong> oooh, ok
[09:05] <zyga> jdong: you are talking to a hudge zelda fan - beware
[09:05] <sivang> jdong: also can open the "get help" page for each app
[09:05] <sivang> jdong: s/app/package/
[09:05] <jdong> zyga: you're talking to someone who's an expert at breaking packages, so beware :)
[09:05] <jdong> sivang: I see...
[09:05] <Nafallo> hmm, they got ruppies in indonesia IIRC :-)
[09:06] <zyga> ruby might be broken for ubuntu
[09:06] <zyga> and at leas is mis-tagged in the control file
[09:06] <zyga> s/leas/least/
[09:08] <jdong> convertfs looks cool (testing on bogus partition)
[09:11] <bob2> I'm shocked to find you can't convert your rootfs, live, to another random FS
[09:11] <Nafallo> :-)
[09:11] <ogra> hmm...
[09:11] <jdong> bob2: from the algorithm, it sounded plausible
[09:11] <ogra> could work if you abuse swap
[09:11] <jdong> bob2: but somehow Linux isn't too thrilled when the root fs changes block devices :)
[09:12] <bob2> plausible? how will you access bits on the partially converted filesystem?
[09:12] <bob2> switching root fs block devices can be done with pivot_root
[09:13] <jdong> bob2: you don't need to access them... you just need to convince all running apps to switch /bin to tmp/bin et all
[09:13] <bob2> how simple!
[09:13] <jdong> bob2: this was a year ago, when I barely started using Linux...
[09:14] <jdong> bob2: you know, the newb's "linux can fly" outlook on the shiny new OS?
[09:14] <zyga> which target CPU should ubuntu packages build for
[09:14] <zyga> 486 or 686?
[09:14] <jdong> zyga: 486
[09:14] <jdong> zyga: though I personally advocate 686 in the near future :-/
[09:15] <zyga> jdong: okay
[09:15] <bob2> jdong: you have benchmarks showing it's an improvement?
[09:15] <Kamion> 686 regresses AMD systems, I believe
[09:15] <Kamion> scientifically performed benchmarks would be better
[09:15] <jdong> Kamion: thanks for clarifying that... I don't have any evidence that 686 runs better than 486... :-/
[09:16] <Kamion> I believe elmo and lamont did some tests before warty
[09:16] <Kamion> which led to the i386 archive event, because gcc had a bug that broke Via C3s with the optimisation flags we were using
[09:16] <jdong> Kamion: why doesn't about:buildconfig show evidence of optimization for 486/pentium4?
[09:17] <Kamion> if about:buildconfig is generated using the flags debian/rules or the Makefile thinks it's using, then it won't be accurate
[09:17] <jdong> ah, ok
[09:17] <Kamion> gcc is diverted on the buildds to a script that applies extra optimisations and calls gcc again
[09:17] <Kamion> s/gcc again/the real gcc/
[09:18] <Kamion> (archive event => wipe all the binaries in the archive and start again)
[09:20] <lamont> jdong: in general, the only things that really do better on 686 than 486 are math and/or graphics-intense packages, which already tend to do runtime detection of CPU and run the right version of their code...
[09:20] <lamont> gcc-4.0:        -mtune=pentium4 -march=i486
[09:20] <lamont> gcc-4.0.force:  -pipe
[09:20] <lamont> gcc-4.0.clear:
[09:20] <lamont> are the flags we {default,force,clear}
[09:21] <jdong> lamont: ok, so like mjpegtools should automatically use sse[1/2/3]  upon detecting its presence?
[09:23] <lamont> jdong: most of them do - I haven't looked at many specific packages, other than just noticing such behavior in staring at build logs
[09:23] <lamont> that is to say, if mjpegtools doesn't use them automatically, then one should benchmark the diff and see if it's worht turning on
[09:23] <lamont> but, if turned on, it should be based on a runtime check, not hardcoded to either pentium4 or k7
[09:26] <jbailey> jdong: FWIW, we (The Debign glibc crew) asked for a year or so for someone to provide us a benchmark showing that libc6-686 was worthwhile and finally just provided it so that we could move on and not have to get any more emails about it.
[09:27] <jbailey> jdong: But in no case was someone able to provide a piece of software that made a noticable difference that didn't already have the magic in it for the optimisation.
[09:27] <jdong> jbailey: ok, thanks
[09:28] <bob2> wasn't -686 eventually required for TLS, anyway?
[09:28] <jbailey> Nope.
[09:28] <jbailey> 486 and up for TLS
[09:28] <jbailey> All you need is atomic operations.
[09:28] <jbailey> And if you're really insane (like the hppa folks are) you can use lightweight syscalls to emulate it.
[09:28] <mdz> ogra: you verified in /proc/mounts that the options took effect, yes?
[09:29] <ogra> mdz, err... i'll veryify... 
[09:29] <zyga> jbailey: ligthweigh syscalls?
[09:29] <bob2> jbailey: so you get TLS with regular libc6?
[09:30] <jbailey> zyga: I don't know all the details.  I was a big drunk when Carlos explained it to me, but I gather that instead of doing a full syscall transition, you hop into kernel mode, stop scheduling, do the bit that needs to be atomic, start it again and return to userspace.
[09:30] <jbailey> bob2: Yup.
[09:30] <bob2> oh, neat
[09:30] <jbailey> bob2: In fact, on every release Ubuntu arch other than i386, there is only NPTL now.
[09:30] <jbailey> sivang: Thread Local Storage.
[09:30] <jdong> sivang: LOL
[09:31] <sivang> TLS is also related to arch, IIRC
[09:31] <bddebian> sivang: Transport Layer Security ;-P
[09:31] <Kamion> sivang: I suspect you're thinking of tla
[09:31] <jdong> sivang: lol, that's tla...
[09:31] <jbailey> bob2: It comes from the parisc designers deciding that scalability was good, and that engineering details like atomic operations were implementation details that could be solved later.
[09:31] <jdong> Tom Lord Arch
[09:32] <bob2> jbailey: haha
[09:32] <jbailey> bob2: Ask me over a drink sometime after the release. =)
[09:32] <sivang> yep. Lucky me to have Kamion  here, who knows what I mean when even I don't really recall :)
[09:39] <Lathiat> mvo: hey
[09:40] <Lathiat> mbi just updated bug 14006 with a patch (dodgy drawn arrows on notification popups)
[09:40] <Lathiat> mvo: rather
[09:40] <bob2> oh man
[09:40] <bob2> go to bed
[09:40] <Lathiat> mvo: its only for upwards pointing so far, but since thats the default and most common its the most annoying, if you could let us know if it works for you
[09:40] <Lathiat> bob2: eh why? :)
[09:41] <mvo> Lathiat: nice, thanks. I'll have a look soon
[09:41] <Lathiat> mvo: upside down arrow windows are broken to start, their 2*ARROW_HEIGHT extra height
[09:41] <Lathiat> mvo: (which would affect the calculation to stick the arrow there)
[09:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: any luck with 15571?
[09:42] <Lathiat> this bug has been *really* irritating me for weeks, finally pissed me off enough to go find it. :)
[09:42] <Lathiat> now off to do a daily reinstall
[09:42] <Lathiat> sicne my system is looking a little hosed
[09:44] <herzi> seb128: ping
[09:45] <seb128> herzi: pong
[09:45] <herzi> seb128: can you please fix http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317766 by patching the package? This bug renders criawips (broken) save code completely useless as it cannot even work if it was correct
[09:45] <herzi> (this is libgsf-gnome-1)
[09:47] <seb128> herzi: dholbach said he will
[09:50] <herzi> okay
[09:52] <seb128> herzi: BTW you can join #ubuntu-desktop for desktop stuff :)
[09:53] <herzi> soo many chat rooms...
[09:53] <seb128> herzi: here is fine too, don't worry :)
[10:12] <ogra> mdz, now *that* was an intresting hint :)
[10:12] <ogra> mdz, 192.168.0.2:/opt/ltsp/i386 / nfs rw,v3,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,hard,tcp,nolock,addr=192.168.0.2 0 0
[10:13] <ogra> mdz, with: nfsmount -o nolock,rsize=8192,wsize=8192  ${roflag} ${NFSROOT} ${rootmnt}
[10:13] <ogra> (was my last line i tested... i didnt change it back to 2048 )
[10:18] <segfault> shouldn't bugzilla's 16386 follow 16568?
[10:18] <segfault> well, i'll test it late.r
[10:25] <ogra> jbailey, any idea to the above ? 
[10:29] <mdz> ogra: unpack the initramfs and make sure your change took effect
[10:30] <mdz> ogra: you remembered to chroot dpkg-reconfigure and to ltsp-update-kernels?
[10:30] <ogra> yup
[10:31] <ogra> err, chroot dpkg-reconfigure ?
[10:32] <mdz> ogra: yes
[10:32] <ogra> hrm...
[10:33] <mdz> sudo vi /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/nfs; sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.12-9-386; sudo ltsp-update-kernels
[10:33] <ogra> damned...
[10:33] <jdong> before I waste 6 hours, can anyone speculate if OOo 1.1.5 will backport to Hoary cleanly?
[10:33] <ogra> i reconfigued the server kernel
[10:34] <jdong> the odt support is enough of an incentive
[10:34] <mdz> is Dennis Kaarsemaker here?
[10:34] <mdz> ogra: do you know his nick?
[10:34] <Nafallo> mdz: Seveas 
[10:34] <mdz> Nafallo: thanks
[10:34] <ogra> mdz, DapperDrake currently :)
[10:34] <Seveas> mdz?
[10:34] <ogra> normally Seveas 
[10:35] <Seveas> ogra, no that's my logging thing
[10:35] <ogra> oh
[10:35] <mdz> Seveas: regarding bug #16743, if you are closing a bug imported from Debian which can't apply to Ubuntu, use the NOTWARTY resolution
[10:35] <mdz> Seveas: I've added documentation to HelpingWithBugs now
[10:35] <Seveas> mdz, ok
[10:35] <Seveas> I'll re-read that page
[10:37] <Seveas> mdz, that page states 'fundamentally does not apply' is a version difference fundamentally enough?
[10:37] <mdz> Seveas: it depends on the circumstances
[10:37] <mdz> if the bug has already been fixed in Debian, such that it will be imported as part of the normal merge process, it's OK to close it NOTWARTY
[10:38] <mdz> or if it isn't critical for  Ubuntu (such that we'll just wait for Debian to fix it)
[10:38] <mdz> if you're unsure, just add your analysis as a comment and I'll see it and act appropriately
[10:38] <Seveas> take http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16858 as example
[10:39] <Seveas> If I find out that at works on Ubuntu and this bug does not occur, that would be a NOTWARTY? 
[10:39] <Seveas> hmm, bad example, the bug is useless :)
[10:40] <jbailey> ogra: I don't know the NFS stuff at all, but you can add 'break' to the kernel command line and call the pieces yourself by hand if that would save you time.
[10:41] <ogra> jbailey, i made a mistake with the regenerations.. dont worry....
[10:49] <jdong> uhh, is there any good reason why launchpad needs newer bonobo than Hoary?
[10:49] <jdong> seems to compile cleanly :-/
[10:49] <jdong> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libbonoboui2-dev (>= 2.10.1-0ubuntu2) libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.8.2)
[10:50] <jdong> hoary bonobo 2.8.1-1ubuntu1,  libgtk2.0-dev 2.6.4-0ubuntu3
[10:53] <seb128> jdong: to annoy backporters I guess :p
[10:54] <jdong> seb128: thanks :-/
[10:54] <jdong> can we get that changed so that Backports team can resolve outstanding abiword and gaim vulnerabilities?.....
[10:55] <mjg59> mdz: Around?
[10:55] <jdong> grumble... and we're under all kinds of freezes now, aren't we... grumble
[10:55] <seb128> jdong: I've other stuff on my list for the moment but I'll have a look later
[10:56] <mdz> mjg59: yuep
[10:56] <mdz> yep
[10:56] <jdong> seb128: thanks; it was mdz's recommendation to get launchpad integration for Hoary
[10:56] <jdong> well, I'm going outside for a while... bbl
[10:56] <mdz> Seveas: not necessarily; the bug could be unreproducible for other reasons
[10:59] <ogra> mdz, no change with 192.168.0.2:/opt/ltsp/i386 / nfs rw,v3,rsize=2048,wsize=2048,hard,tcp,nolock,addr=192.168.0.2 0 0
[11:00] <mdz> Seveas: 16743 is a good example; the bug is specific to Debian's binary build and is completely irrelevant to Ubuntu
[11:01] <Seveas> ok mdz, thanks for the info
[11:01] <Seveas> I have 50 bugs more to visit on todays list :)
[11:01] <sivang> jdong|away: what are you trying to get lpi for?
[11:01] <mdz> Seveas: another common case is "fake" bugs which are filed in debbugs to prevent a package from moving into testing; we don't care about those generally
[11:01] <mjg59> mdz: Can we pull radeontool and smartdimmer into main?
[11:01] <mjg59> (And, uh, ship)
[11:02] <mdz> sivang: rhythmbox
[11:02] <sivang> mdz: for breezy?
[11:02] <ogra> sivang, backports
[11:02] <sivang> ogra: ah
[11:02] <ogra> sivang, more stuff will follow
[11:02] <mdz> mjg59: through the usual review process, yes (assuming you didn't write them)
[11:02] <mdz> re: ship, assuming they're tiny
[11:03] <sivang> ogra: I see, well, I would have been able to help, but only laptop is here with breezy on it
[11:03] <ogra> sivang, use a hoary pbuilder ;)
[11:04] <sivang> ogra: right, but on this slow laptop machine....:-(
[11:04] <sivang> ogra: even testing minor fixes takes ages on the build cycle
[11:06] <ogra> mdz, what really bothers me on the above line is the rw... shouldnt that be ro ? 
[11:07] <mdz> ogra: it's not particularly important
[11:08] <mjg59> mdz: size 8916 and 16188 respectively
[11:09] <ogra> true, but as i see the options in pxelinux.cfg/default it should be ro...
[11:09] <ogra> so these options aren't regarded as well
[11:14] <mdz> Seveas: also, when fixing the Package field, remember to use " Reassign bug to owner and QA contact of selected component " so that those fields are updated as well
[11:15] <Seveas> mdz, yes, i did that for all of them afaik
[11:15] <Seveas> maybe in the beginning I missed a few
[11:16] <mdz> yes, 16773
[11:16] <Seveas> sorry
[11:16] <jdong|away> sivang: so is there any importance in the version deps of lpi?
[11:17] <sivang> jdong|away: I suspect not, you might try to fetch the src pkg, change the dependencies (and the corrosponding configure lines) and rebuild it
[11:17] <sivang> jdong|away: the bonobo code just wraps the main l-i.c code for bonobo ui support.
[11:18] <jdong|away> sivang: it builds clean with dpkg-buildpackage -d :)
[11:18] <jdong|away> sivang: but due to Backports policy the source package MUST build cleanly to be in backports :)
[11:19] <ogra> mdz, does the original ltsp use v2 or v3 ?
[11:19] <mdz> ogra: it uses the kernel default
[11:20] <ogra> hmm
[11:20] <mdz> I think
[11:20] <mdz> ogra: ask jammcq or someone else on #ltsp
[11:20] <ogra>  /join #ltsp
[11:20] <ogra> grmpf
[11:21] <Seveas> mdke, it seems that that function does not work on unconfirmed bugs
[11:22] <Seveas> mdz*
[11:22] <Kamion> Seveas: always works for me
[11:22] <dholbach> brb
[11:22] <Seveas> eg #16859
[11:22] <Kamion> I uncheck the "mark as NEW" checkbox; the wrong one always gets bogusly set
[11:22] <Seveas> yes, I do that too
[11:23] <Seveas> but after hitting commit and returning to the bug, it's still set to the debzilla@ubuntu
[11:23] <Seveas> that's why i've missed a lot
[11:23] <Kamion> Seveas: that has nothing to do with the unconfirmed state; acpi just doesn't have any other default assignee
[11:24] <Kamion> lots of packages don't
[11:24] <Seveas> right, ok
[11:24] <Seveas> that explain
[11:24] <Seveas> merci
[11:24] <Kamion> pas de problme
[11:24] <Kamion> hm, "de rien" would be more idiomatic - oh well
[11:25] <ogra> Kamion, and you even missed seb128 to impess him :)
[11:25] <ogra> *impress
[11:25] <seb128> what?
[11:26] <jdong> sivang: so can you remove the version deps on the two libs in the next lpi?
[11:26] <seb128> jdong: I said I'll have a look
[11:26] <seb128> jdong: no need to ask to somebody else
[11:27] <jdong> seb128: k, thanks... forgot you were going to :)
[11:27] <Kamion> 22:24 < Seveas> merci
[11:27] <Kamion> 22:24 < Kamion> pas de problme
[11:27] <Kamion> 22:24 < Kamion> hm, "de rien" would be more idiomatic - oh well
[11:27] <Kamion> seb128: ^-- (what ogra was talking about)
[11:27] <seb128> ah ah, thanks :)
[11:27] <ogra> heh
[11:27] <jdong> Kamion: wow, aren't we all French oriented recently....
[11:28] <jdong> not just on #ubuntu-devel.. on #ubuntuforums there were grammar lessons in French, too...
[11:39] <ogra> mdz, 16786 was imported from debian, right ? 
[11:39] <mdke> aptop
[11:39] <mdke>  [22:32:53]  < Simira> mjg59: testing right now. Things are getting good for HP, at least.
[11:40] <mdke> argh
[11:40] <Simira> :-)
[11:43] <blueyed> I've noticed a difference in the Makefile generated by dpkg-buildpackage and using debuild (which should also use dpkg-buildpackage). With using debuild, it uses a wrong kde_htmldir setting of "${datadir}/doc/HTML". Using dpkg-buildpackage alone it uses /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML (which is right). Is this a known problem?
[11:43] <Kamion> debuild sanitises the environment; perhaps the package build was inadvertently relying on some environment variable you have set
[11:44] <Kamion> dpkg-buildpackage and debuild are both several steps away from anything that touches Makefiles directly
[11:45] <blueyed> Kamion: I've set kde_htmldir=/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML in /etc/profile. Seems like using dpkg-buildpackage seems to honor that, not debuild.
[11:47] <ajmitch> hm, no pitti
[11:49] <Kamion> blueyed: debuild is, if anything, more correct. packages should never ever rely on things you've set in your environment.
[11:49] <mdz> ogra: bugs imported from Debian have an alias starting with 'deb'
[11:49] <ajmitch> Kamion: chances of getting a new yada in main is approximately nil, right?
[11:49] <ajmitch> phpmyadmin was synced for a security fix, but the new source build-deps on new yada :-/
[11:50] <ogra> mdz, yes, i just saw the screenshot on the bug :/ very strange sice i have tested xinerama with lots of people now... for all it seemed to work :/
[11:53] <Kamion> ajmitch: I think changes to obscure packaging helper tools that roughly nobody understands and that could make everything that uses them FTBFS are pretty risky
[11:53] <ogra> i dont even have a printer configured or attached here
[11:53] <jdong> ogra: (1) print job not finished (2) I've hacked into your computer and am putting printer icons on all X sessions :)
[11:53] <Kamion> ajmitch: would much rather undo whatever packaging change in phpmyadmin made it build-dep on new yada
[11:53] <ajmitch> Kamion: yeah, I saw the discussion on dh_make. I'll try it with the older yada & we might have to live with the postrm bug it says it fixes
[11:54] <ogra> jdong, the latter rather...
[11:54] <ogra> jdong, i have no printer configured here...
[11:54] <Kamion> ajmitch: completely repackaging it with dh_make would be unwise; you'd have to live with the enormous merge job forever
[11:54] <jdong> ogra: did you send a print job of some sort to a virtual printer of CUPS?
[11:54] <ogra> and apparently i cant get rid of the icon grrr
[11:54] <Kamion> unless you can persuade the Debian maintainer to switch, which is unlikely considering that he's the yada maintainer
[11:54] <jdong> lol
[11:55] <ajmitch> Kamion: I wasn't suggesting doing that, I was referring to somone requesting a dh_make sync :)
[11:55] <Kamion> ajmitch: oh, right
[11:55] <Kamion> ajmitch: dh_make is somewhat different because packages don't build-depend on it; it's only run by hand
[11:55] <Kamion> which makes it safer in some ways, but also much harder to effectively test
[11:56] <ajmitch> yep
[11:56] <ajmitch> I used to use it at one point
[11:56] <Kamion> ajmitch: isn't yada one of those helper packages that fills in new build-depends on the current version of itself, or something ghastly like that? you might find that rebuilding the source on breezy, ignoring build-depends the first time, makes it lower the build-dependency ...
[11:57] <ajmitch> Kamion: all I know is that it's ghastly
[11:57] <Kamion> the postrm bug fix is certainly not release-critical in any way
[11:57] <ajmitch> I hope it doesn't rewrite build-depends
[11:57] <jbailey> yada is one of those things that makes people feel okay when they read the source to cdbs. =0
[11:57] <ajmitch> jbailey: oh dear
[11:57] <ajmitch> phpmyadmin is universe anyway (surprisingly)
[11:57] <ajmitch> so it's not going to block anything
[11:57] <jdong> ajmitch: great excuse :)
[11:58] <ajmitch> jdong: ?
[11:58] <Kamion> doesn't surprise me - I'm sure php used to be blacklisted from main in the warty days
[11:58] <jdong> ajmitch: am I to expect breezy-updates to be in good use for this release season?
[11:58] <ajmitch> jdong: depends on what is allowed in
[11:58] <jdong> There are times where known bugs in various programs really tick me off
[11:58] <jdong> i.e. Warty Nautilus FTP
[11:59] <jdong> ajmitch: what kind of stuff is _supposed_ to be let into *-updates?
[12:00] <jdong> maybe I'm just misunderstanding the purpose of that channel
[12:00] <ajmitch> jdong: I don't know, I don't set that policy :)
[12:00] <ajmitch> as far as I know it's just critical & security fixes
[12:00] <jdong> I'd like to see errata updates for Ubuntu stable releases....
[12:01] <jdong> ajmitch: does the default FTP client screwing up all binary files it touches not quality as critical?
[12:01] <jdong> (FYI gftp is in universe, apart from ncftp there are no other Main FTP clients)
[12:02] <ogra> bah, i still have a printer in my tray after reboot