[12:02] <jbailey> jdong: What to explain?  I did sed -e 's/mkinitrd/mkinitrmafs/', it worked, I uploaded.
[12:02] <jbailey> Then Fabio uplaoded a working version right after.
[12:02] <jbailey> door, justasec.
[12:03] <ogra> cant stop laughing about the two sentences jbailey just wrote above
[12:03] <jbailey> Wow, kids selling chocolate bars.
[12:03] <ogra> drugs !
[12:03] <jbailey> Teenagers in think qubec french are a bit hard to understand. =)
[12:04] <jbailey> ogra: Right, so I refused.
[12:04] <jbailey> Not only is caffeine not a drug I do, it was also laced with animal products.
[12:04] <ajmitch> jbailey: aww, not roaming evangelists? :)
[12:04] <jbailey> tsk.
[12:04] <jbailey> ajmitch: Nope.
[12:04] <tseng> ajmitch: do you have jehovahs witness?
[12:04] <jbailey> ajmitch: I've been inviting all of them in to increase my vocab.
[12:04] <ajmitch> tseng: of course
[12:04] <tseng> woot
[12:04] <jbailey> ajmitch: The JWs didn't come bacak.
[12:04] <jdong> jbailey: thanks, that's clear
[12:04] <ajmitch> jbailey: it's a shame when they don't come back
[12:05] <jbailey> Which is sad.  I learned alot of new words in the 20 minutes I spoke to them.
[12:05] <tseng> me gives jbailey "Mario Teaches Typing"
[12:05] <tseng> in true form, botching the clever jab
[12:05] <jbailey> In school we didn't learn alot of religious vocabulary (that whole separation of church and state and all that)
[12:05] <jdong> jbailey: LOL, nice initramfs migration method :)
[12:05] <jbailey> jdong: =)
[12:06] <jbailey> jdong: If you have questions about the initramfs-tools, I understand how it works much better. =)
[12:06] <ogra> especially with the fabio sentence below *g*
[12:06] <camilotelles> laptop guys, I will buy a new notebook. what brand model is best for ubuntu support? i looking for an HP nc series. good choice?
[12:07] <jdong> camilotelles: wrong channel?
[12:07] <jbailey> ogra: Understand that I'm incredibly anal about my packages.  But the kernel packages just scare me.
[12:07] <ogra> jbailey, i can very well understand you :)
[12:08] <camilotelles> jdong, maybe. I'm looking forward. maybe you are right. thanks.
[12:08] <jdong> camilotelles: you'll probably have better luck over at #ubuntu
[12:10] <jmg> hmm
[12:10] <camilotelles> jdong, thanks
[12:10] <jmg> im kinda dissapointed no SIP app from main works for me
[12:10] <jmg> except skype, but skype is nonfree
[12:11] <tseng> SIP is a goal for dapper
[12:11] <jmg> tseng: cool i can help with it
[12:11] <torkel> jmg: and it's not SIP
[12:12] <jmg> torkel: it is today
[12:12] <os2mac> By the by I have written a small script that will automatically install ndis-utils and configure the wlan0 card.
[12:12] <jmg> torkel: sip to asterisk
[12:12] <jmg> the only softphone i have tried that works unfortunately
[12:12] <jmg> is xlite
[12:12] <jmg> :(
[12:12] <os2mac> it is very specific and points to my thumb drive for the driver and uses my essid and key but you could modify that very easily me thinks.
[12:13] <jmg> os2mac: nice
[12:13] <jdong> jmg: I feel your pain (solved it two weeks ago on my newest system :) )
[12:14] <os2mac> when are they release 5.10?
[12:14] <jmg> jdong: yeah?
[12:14] <ogra> os2mac, have a look at ndisgtk in universe ;)
[12:14] <jmg> jdong: new box?
[12:14] <jdong> jmg: exactly :)
[12:14] <os2mac> ndisgtk?
[12:14] <os2mac> gui?
[12:14] <jmg> jdong: this is my work laptop.. i just put up with it :) 
[12:14] <jdong> LAPTOP???
[12:14] <jdong> come on, we're just gettin lazy here
[12:14] <ogra> os2mac, yup
[12:15] <jmg> jdong: it is nice enough being able to test/work on ubuntu
[12:15] <jmg> jdong: even if it is kubuntu :P
[12:15] <jmg> speaking of which
[12:15] <jdong> and speaking of that.... umm, 8725, is "fixed in breezy" really a GREAT way to close a Hoary bug?
[12:15] <Nafallo> jdong: yes.
[12:15] <jmg> jdong: isnt hoary meant to be supported for five years?
[12:16] <mjg59> os2mac: There is no Linux driver for the Broadcom wireless chipset
[12:16] <Nafallo> jmg: no, that's dapper.
[12:16] <jmg> right
[12:16] <jmg> looks like i am going to be helping out the xen goal
[12:16] <os2mac> I figured that out MJ.
[12:16] <jmg> since i want xen on this box for work
[12:16] <os2mac> they only release a driver for their eth0 stuff
[12:17] <jdong> 18 months or 5 years, Hoary's still the latest stable release.....
[12:17] <jmg> instead of qemuing xen
[12:17] <jdong> shouldn't hoary-updates be getting used?
[12:17] <jmg> ugh
[12:17] <jdub> jdong: not for unimportant stuff like that
[12:17] <jdong> jdub: I see.... frivolous bug....
[12:18] <jmg> ok i need to file a bug on the fact that my laptop powers off after resuming from suspend apparently
[12:19] <jdong> jmg: my systems hard reset after resuming from disk
[12:19] <jdong> jmg: as another dev told me the other day, your bios is shit
[12:20] <os2mac> ogra: I am on a live CD. ndisgtk would still require me to create a mount point and mount hda then go find the driver.
[12:20] <ogra> os2mac, not if its on you thumb drive
[12:21] <jmg> jdong: toshi laptop support does work if configured manually
[12:21] <os2mac> and you would think that I don't get paid to be an admin for this.
[12:21] <jmg> jdong: something is broken in klaptop
[12:22] <jdong> jmg: oh, so /sys/power/state can validly do it, but klaptop fails?
[12:22] <dholbach> jmg: nice to hear that (MOTU-wise) :)
[12:22] <Riddell> mdz: can I upload an updated kubuntu-meta?  it adds usplash artwork
[12:23] <dholbach> jmg: you can hang out with the rest of the crew on #ubuntu-motu :)
[12:24] <jmg> jdong: echo mem > /sys/power/state and i am still here
[12:25] <os2mac> so onto the next question.
[12:25] <os2mac> how do you configure acpi to allow hibernation/suspend on my laptop via the FN button?
[12:26] <jdong> keymap fun....
[12:27] <jmg> os2mac: does it come up as "Unknown key blah" on console?
[12:27] <os2mac> nope just doesn't do anything
[12:27] <jdong> os2mac: under dmesg?
[12:28] <os2mac> [4295064.124000]  ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:02:03.0[A]  -> Link [LNKB]  -> GSI 7 (level, low) -> IRQ 7
[12:28] <os2mac> is the only alert I got
[12:29] <jdong> that's ACPI gibberish pretty irrelevant to the sleep button....
[12:29] <jdong> could the key sequence be wired up to the ACPI sleep button?
[12:29] <os2mac> I do not know.
[12:29] <jdong> I don't think sleep button
[12:29] <jdong> is wired by default
[12:29] <os2mac> sleep function on this laptop is fn+ESC
[12:30] <mjg59> os2mac: What sort of laptop is this?
[12:30] <os2mac> Dell Inspiron 8600
[12:30] <os2mac> as a matter of fact most of the FN functions do not work.
[12:32] <jdong> os2mac: I hear ya... they're usually software-wired
[12:32] <jdong> aren't there special ACPI extensions/patches for Dells?
[12:33] <mjg59> No
[12:33] <mjg59> fn+escape is a normal ACPI sleep key
[12:34] <mjg59> Dell hotkeys are well understood
[12:39] <jdong> is ACPI sleep wired to anything /etc/acpi-wise by default?
[12:40] <sivang> anybody else experiencing major X/GNOME slow down ?
[12:42] <jdong> At UF we've gotten some reports of it... though poorly confirmed or pinpointed
[12:42] <jdong> my personal systems, no
[12:43] <Zomb> hello
[12:43] <mjg59> jdong: Yes. It cals /etc/acpi/sleep.sh
[12:43] <jdong> sivang: those who complained described long-lasting trails (2+ seconds) dragging windows around
[12:44] <Zomb> I am trying to make Knoppix work in a similar way the ubuntu live-CD does. However, I get data corruption problems really similar to those described on http://www.redhat.com/archives/dm-devel/2005-August/msg00068.html
[12:44] <Zomb> so the question... how do you guys manage that?
[12:44] <mdz> Riddell: yes
[12:44] <sivang> jdong: exactly that
[12:45] <Riddell> thanks
[12:45] <jdong> sivang: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=71680 example of recent one
[12:45] <sivang> jdong: and I wait about 2 seconds between each gdb step :)
[12:45] <jdong> sivang: though this one I have to attribute partly to poor Xorg.conf
[12:45] <mjg59> Acceleration is disabled on some Radeons because they tend to hang the machine otherwise
[12:45] <sivang> mjg59: I have an nvidia 
[12:45] <mjg59> sivang: Right, probably not that, then
[12:45] <jdong> sivang: so does the person in question
[12:46] <dieman> is acpi-support fixed from the sleep.sh syntax error?
[12:46] <mjg59> dieman: Yes
[12:46] <dieman> otherwise, ive got a bug to file.
[12:46] <sivang> jdong: any idea to what's causing this?
[12:46] <dieman> dsok
[12:47] <jdub> BY THE BEARD OF ZEUS!
[12:47] <dieman> mjg59: ok.  sorry, on gprs here.
[12:47] <dieman> laggy as hell
[12:47] <mjg59> dieman: No problem
[12:47] <jdong> sivang: check your Xorg.conf for obvious things, like GLCore popping back in
[12:47] <dieman> mjg59: i like the FAN HATE comments
[12:47] <mjg59> dieman: Haha
[12:47] <mjg59> dieman: HP breakage workaround
[12:47] <jmg> i presume ACPI_SLEEP=true /etc/acpi/sleep.sh is supposed to work better than echo mem > /sys/power/state
[12:47] <sivang> jdub: lol, what's now?
[12:47] <jdong> sivang: other than that, I'm confused about it too... I can't reproduce it on my two nvidias
[12:47] <jmg> because it dont.
[12:47] <mjg59> jmg: Yes
[12:47] <dieman> i was also happy to see my laptop in the laptop whitelist now :)
[12:48] <mjg59> jmg: bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[12:48] <mjg59> dieman: What model?
[12:48] <jmg> mjg59: But at least it works better than klaptop. Which im trying to patch to use /etc/acpi stuff now.
[12:48] <jmg> mjg59: then i'll get to /etc/acpi itself.
[12:48] <sivang> jdong: bah, don't have glcore on the module list
[12:48] <Riddell> jmg: klaptopdaemon is patched
[12:48] <mjg59> jmg: That's, uh, cutting things a bit fine
[12:49] <mjg59> And yeah, what riddell said
[12:49] <dieman> mjg59: fujitsu p7010
[12:49] <Riddell> jmg: what's the problem?
[12:49] <mjg59> dieman: Ah, cool
[12:49] <dieman> ok, at the bus stop, bbiab
[12:50] <jmg> Riddell: i get poweroff immediately after wake up from suspend
[12:50] <Riddell> jmg: what version do you have installed?
[12:50] <jmg> ok so i think i need to set up my apt sources so i can do apt-get source kdeutils/ubuntu or something
[12:51] <jmg> but also kdeutils/sid
[12:51] <jmg> 4:3.4.2-0ubuntu1
[12:51] <Riddell> jmg: -0ubuntu2 should be the patched one
[12:51] <jmg> latest breezy unless my mirror isnt synched.
[12:51] <jmg> typical.
[12:52] <jmg> Riddell: thats on the main mirrors?
[12:52] <mjg59>      4:3.4.2-0ubuntu2 0
[12:52] <mjg59>         500 ftp://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Packages
[12:52] <mjg59> (yes)
[12:53] <jmg> .nz admins need to be shot.
[12:53] <jmg> or at least educated in configuring debsync
[12:53] <jmg> and cron
[12:54] <wasabi_> wow this miniitx board totally screwed up in linux
[12:54] <jmg> oh for frunks sake
[12:54] <jmg> Riddell: wont be able to test till tomorrow
[12:55] <jmg> Need to get 175MB of archives.
[12:55] <Riddell> jings
[12:55] <jmg> Riddell: i'll sync from work
[12:56] <jmg> and THIS time, i'm making an lvm snapshot first
[01:00] <wasabi_> wow
[01:01] <wasabi_> soon as ubuntu switches into curses, the screen corrupts.
[01:01] <wasabi_> that's new
[01:01] <azeem> anybody running deskbar-applet?  I don't see that shiny preferences dialog from http://browserbookapp.sourceforge.net/deskbar.html, just a box which lets me select the width
[01:01] <dholbach> have a nice evening guys, i'm off to bed
[01:01] <dholbach> azeem: it got removed
[01:01] <azeem> aha
[01:01] <dholbach> azeem: doesnt use keywords anymore, it uses epiphany search thingies
[01:02] <dholbach> azeem: and will use firefox stuff soon too
[01:02] <azeem> right, I think I read about that
[01:02] <Riddell> jdub: random pagan blaspheming or do you really have zeus there?
[01:03] <jdub> watching anchorman in the background
[01:03] <dholbach> azeem: i just uploaded it to breezy universe - let's see how long it will be in NEW :)
[01:03] <azeem> dholbach: bah, I just packaged it for Debian
[01:03] <tseng> dholbach: im ahead of you by several days
[01:03] <tseng> dholbach: GET IN LINE
[01:03] <jdub> haha
[01:04] <dholbach> tseng: i was waiting for reviews and i tried it a couple of minutes after it first appeared on UniverseCandidates
[01:04] <bddebian> hehe
[01:04] <tseng> resapplet?
[01:04] <dholbach> oh sorry
[01:04] <dholbach> :)
[01:05] <tseng> hugs
[01:05] <dholbach> no, not resapplet
[01:05] <dholbach> deskbar thingie
[01:05] <tseng> oh what is that
[01:05] <dholbach> it was like 2 months ago
[01:05] <tseng> luis posted a link to flash or some crap
[01:05] <tseng> that i cant see
[01:05] <dholbach> http://raphael.slinckx.net/blog/index.php/2005-10-02/deskbar-applet-hotness
[01:06] <dholbach> that one
[01:06] <tseng> oh that
[01:06] <azeem> dholbach: where is your package?  Shall I sponsor it for Debian, or do you prefer I upload my own package there?
[01:07] <dholbach> azeem: no it'd be awesome if we could coordinate
[01:07] <dholbach> azeem: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=708
[01:07] <azeem> cool, thatnks
[01:07] <azeem> eh, thanks
[01:08] <dholbach> merci beaucoup
[01:10] <seb128> dholbach: you have set uneeded requirement for gtk, you have to change that for Debian
[01:10] <dholbach> seb128: it is needed
[01:10] <dholbach> seb128: for some crazy-ass gtk-utility
[01:10] <seb128> configure.ac is bugged?
[01:11] <dholbach> dunno, it's not only python, it needs it anyway
[01:12] <seb128> configure.ac disagree with you one the libgtk2.0-0 version required
[01:12] <seb128> I'm not sure than it uses anything specific to the new versions
[01:12] <seb128> anyway, I'll give a try to the build with a debian unstable pbuilder and let you know if that builds tomorrow
[01:13] <seb128> sleep well for now :)
[01:13] <bddebian> dholbach: Did you get a chance to hit xfonts-terminus today?
[01:13] <azeem> well, it builds
[01:13] <azeem> if you are still talking about deskbar-applet, that is
[01:13] <seb128> yep
[01:13] <dholbach> seb128: i remember now... upstream told me to
[01:14] <dholbach> seb128: i guess he'll fix it in the next release or something
[01:14] <seb128> k
[01:14] <dholbach> i will go to bed now too
[01:14] <dholbach> thanks for your awesome work everybody :)
[01:14] <dholbach> *wave*
[01:15] <ogra> night dholbach 
[01:15] <azeem> n8
[01:16] <ogra> night mvo 
[01:16] <bddebian> anyone know what's up with gnome-launch-box?
[01:16] <ogra> bddebian, i think it got dropped
[01:16] <dholbach> bddebian, ogra: seb128 should know :)
[01:16] <seb128> I just packaged it
[01:16] <seb128> no news since
[01:17] <dholbach> don't mess with seb :)
[01:17] <seb128> ah ah
[01:17] <bddebian> seb128: There's a Malone bug on it
[01:17] <ogra> seb128, didnt you say it didnt change and you dropped it iirc ?
[01:18] <azeem> bddebian: did they make you fix all bugs filed in Malone?
[01:18] <ogra> if thats true, we probably sould remove it for now to not generate bugs
[01:18] <seb128> ogra: nop
[01:18] <bddebian> azeem: They're trying ;-P
[01:18] <seb128> bddebian: only one? :)
[01:19] <dholbach> seb128: haha
[01:19] <bddebian> seb128: Aye, should I not look at it?.. Nope, make that two
[01:19] <segfault> Niiice. Ubuntu is almost fully translated to pt_BR.
[01:19] <dholbach> bugs keep that software together :)
[01:19] <bddebian> hehe
[01:20] <segfault> maybe fully when ogra fixes that .desktop bug? :D
[01:20] <segfault> heh
[01:20] <dholbach> segfault: which one?
[01:20] <bddebian> seb128: Both bugs say broken dependencies but it doesn't show up in apt-cache unmet ??
[01:20] <ogra> dholbach, xscreensaver translation typo 
[01:20] <dholbach> ah i see
[01:20] <segfault> yup
[01:21] <ogra> in pt_br :)
[01:22] <seb128> bddebian: it needs a rebuild with current evolution-data-server libs
[01:22] <dholbach> seb128: and a transition, i suppose?
[01:22] <bddebian> seb128: OK< will to
[01:22] <dholbach> seb128: code-wise?
[01:22] <bddebian> Err will do
[01:22] <dholbach> bddebian: xfonts-terminus uploaded
[01:22] <dholbach> now i'm off
[01:22] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[01:22] <dholbach> see you
[01:22] <ogra> *sigh*
[01:22] <seb128> dholbach: no, soname change
[01:22] <bddebian> dholbach: ROCKIN, thx
[01:22] <seb128> dholbach: package rename
[01:22] <seb128> dholbach: just stock rebuild
[01:23] <seb128> bddebian: thanks
[01:23] <dholbach> seb128: i'm amazed
[01:23] <seb128> dholbach: why ?
[01:23] <dholbach> seb128: i didnt think that a simple rebuild would fix the package again
[01:23] <ogra> bddebian, if they just wouldnt bomb in my mailbox all the day ...
[01:23] <bddebian> heh
[01:23] <dholbach> however :)
[01:23] <dholbach> *wave* :)
[01:23] <seb128> dholbach: why not? That's just a matter to catch the dep on the right package, ie: the current soname
[01:24] <ogra> i get about 3-4 a day for gnome-screensaver
[01:24] <dholbach> yeah of course... i just thought the API changed in between
[01:24] <seb128> probably not breaking that
[01:24] <bddebian> ogra: Can't you just dump those to /dev/null? ;-)
[01:24] <seb128> gnome-screensaver has a new upstream version
[01:25] <ogra> bddebian, nope, its actually very good... we even know all bugs *before* we even use the software...
[01:25] <seb128> which has most of the changes listed on the ubuntu wiki
[01:25] <seb128> if somebody wants to update it
[01:25] <ogra> seb128, yes, for dapper
[01:25] <seb128> universe is frozen?
[01:25] <ogra> seb128, i have eniugh on the list for xscreensaver currently
[01:26] <ogra> seb128, and a ton of gnome-screensaver bugs idling...
[01:27] <seb128> yeah, but an update would probably fix some bugs
[01:27] <seb128> so you could close some and not get bugs already fixed upstream
[01:27] <bddebian> Oh, oh, does that mean I can update gnucash, libofx, aqbanking, libosb, etc for gnucash and kmymoney2?? :-)
[01:28] <ogra> seb128, true... if you have the time... i already lost 10 days for screensaver stuff that were planned for edubuntu, i wont waste time on it for breezy anymore
[01:28] <seb128> bddebian: ?
[01:29] <bddebian> seb128: There are about 4 bugs on Malone between gnucash and kmymoney2 but they require a lot of newer subpackages
[01:29] <seb128> bddebian: you are looking for bug to fix? I can make a list of stuff for you if you want :p
[01:29] <ogra> seb128, eave bddebian alone !! he's #1 bugfixer for universe currently :) (together with ajmitch )
[01:30] <seb128> we could use it for main :)
[01:30] <bddebian> seb128: I currently have 3 goals.  Clean up the UniverseUnmetDeps, Keep Malone bugs < 500, and the MOM merges
[01:30] <bddebian> seb128: I can't do anything about main :-(
[01:30] <ogra> bddebian, if you think its reasonable to update all the stuff and it doesnt draw to much time, go ahaead
[01:30] <seb128> bddebian: sure you can, send patches, I'll do the uploads :)
[01:31] <bddebian> Otherwise I would have already re-uploaded scribus
[01:31] <ogra> seb128, !!!
[01:31] <bddebian> tseng: You are?
[01:31] <tseng> bddebian: yes
[01:31] <bddebian> tseng: How do you know that?
[01:31] <ogra> seb128, stop, or we wont have a universe in breezy :)
[01:31] <ogra> bddebian, note i said currently... in sum i guess thats \sh
[01:32] <bddebian> Ah ha
[01:32] <bddebian> Well my karma isn't anywhere near ajmitch yet either.. :-)
[01:32] <ogra> bddebian, but beside ajmitch noone can cope with you atm
[01:32] <bddebian> No one can cope with me?? Hmm
[01:32] <ogra> :)
[01:33] <bddebian> Oh gnome-launch-box FTBFS, what a surprise
[01:33] <seb128> anyway time to sleep here
[01:33] <seb128> later
[01:33] <ogra> night seb128 
[01:34] <bddebian> Later seb128 
[01:34] <ogra> i guess so...
[01:35] <tseng> ogra: oh
[01:35] <tseng> ogra: why does mediawiki want php4 again
[01:35] <ogra> tseng, because it was imported from debian and because the history function has a bug with php5
[01:35] <tseng> i see, thanks.
[01:36] <ogra> since it wont go into main i didnt touch it further...
[01:36] <ogra> else i would have triued to fix that
[01:36] <tseng> ok
[01:36] <tseng> using packaged php apps is going to suck for breezy
[01:37] <ogra> yes
[01:38] <sivang> ogra: could you please remind me how I exctract a tarball based source package?
[01:38] <ogra> if they can they should depend php5 | php4
[01:38] <ogra> sivang, tar xzvf ? 
[01:38] <sivang> ogra: there's something in debian/rules for that
[01:38] <tseng> dpkg-source -x foo.dsc?
[01:39] <ogra> sivang, thats cdbs i think, i dont use cdbs
[01:40] <ogra> use a normal debhelper based package with orig.tar.gz :)
[01:40] <ogra> then you dont need to fiddle with tar in /rules
[01:40] <sivang> ogra: right :) but seb128 had signed with evil as you know, so I have to know how to work with it - nevermind thanks for tip 
[01:41] <sivang> according to daniels , cdbs=evil
[01:41] <bddebian> So what replaces menu-tree.h?  gmenu-tree.h seems to puke
[01:42] <ogra> sivang, look at some other cdbs based package ;)
[01:42] <sivang> ogra: bah, reading the rules file, I see that build-tree was replaced with "extract"
[01:42] <sivang> ogra: I wish someone just notified in advance about those...
[01:57] <doko> Kamion: bad news for the amd64 install CD: openoffice.org2-common is missing a dep on openoffice.org2-java-common, skipping about 8MB of packages
[01:57] <doko> same for the live-CD
[02:01] <doko> mdz: I've put a OOo2-help package on people.ubuntu.com/~doko/ it builds, but there's still some bug with cross references. should this be included for breezy in this quality?
[02:21] <speel> Hey
[02:23] <speel> would it be possible to recommend a driver to be built into ubuntu?
[02:24] <jdub> speel: bugzilla's the place for it, file against ubuntu -> linux
[02:25] <Amaranth> speel: it wouldn't make it into breezy
[02:25] <Amaranth> speel: is it an open source driver?
[02:25] <speel> bah
[02:25] <speel> yes
[02:25] <jdub> speel: breezy will be released within *days* -> far, far, far too late
[02:26] <speel> Yea ah kinda figured =/
[02:27] <speel> because it would be great to have the spca5xx webcam driver built in because alot of cams need it and i was just going to suggest it.
[02:28] <speel> Ah well thanks anyway :) keep up the good work.
[02:28] <mdz> mjg59: when you asked about radeontool and smartdimmer in main, I didn't realize you meant _in the default install_
[02:28] <mdz> mjg59: gnaargh
[02:29] <Nafallo> jdub: wow! nice work on the new icon :-).
[02:30] <Nafallo> jdong: background as well :-)
[02:31] <Nafallo> s/jdong/jdub/ :-)
[02:32] <jdong> Amaranth:ping
[02:32] <Amaranth> jdong: pong
[02:33] <jdub> Nafallo: background and splash by cliff chen
[02:33] <jdong> Amaranth: 15281... can you help me out?
[02:33] <jdong> Amaranth: (bugzilla.ubuntu.com)
[02:33] <Amaranth> jdong: give me 20 minutes for bugzilla to load on dialup
[02:33] <jdong> Amaranth: lol, np
[02:33] <Nafallo> jdub: yepp :-). you will have to forward those messages :-).
[02:33] <jdub> :-)
[02:34] <Nafallo> and I have to update my screenshoot _again_ ;-)
[02:34] <Amaranth> known issue if it's gnome-app-install in hoary
[02:34] <mdz> speel: when requesting a new driver, it is customary to first check whether it is already included :-P
[02:34] <Amaranth> jdong: they were using unofficial backports
[02:34] <speel> well i dont think it is =/
[02:34] <mdz> well it is
[02:34] <jdong> Amaranth: yes.... so should we mark it resolved/invalid since it doesn't exist anymore?
[02:35] <Riddell> mdz: can I upload a quick klaptopdaemon fix? http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kdeutils.diff
[02:35] <Amaranth> jdong: yeah, and please get smeg out of the official backports
[02:35] <speel> spca5xx is not included in hoary ... or is it? lol
[02:35] <Amaranth> jdong: i get lots of people complaining about it being uninstallable due to a lack of a new pyxdg
[02:36] <jdong> Amaranth: sure... on it.
[02:37] <Amaranth> jdong: btw, my email is alleykat@gmail.com if you need it again :)
[02:37] <jdong> Amaranth: thanks! I'll keep that in my contacts list
[02:37] <jdong> yes, me pathetic enough to need a personal wiki
[02:37] <mdz> Riddell: ok
[02:38] <mdz> speel: that's correct, it is not available in hoary but in breezy
[02:39] <speel> ah great! 
[02:39] <bddebian> Anyone know what func replaces menu_tree_directory_get_entries in gnome-menus?
[02:40] <speel> mdz, thanks for letting me know
[02:40] <mdz> jdub: who did the usplash artwork?
[02:40] <jdub> mdz: cliff
[02:41] <jdub> mdz: I AM SERIOUS, IT WAS CLIFF, DON'T YOU BELIEVE ME?
[02:41] <jdong> jdub: could use a bit more brown... (j/k)
[02:41] <wasabi_> hmm. odd. soon as grub loads the kernel, this system reboots.
[02:42] <mdz> jdub: oh, I thought you were talking about the gnome splash
[02:42] <jdub> heh
[02:42] <jdub> we talked about usplash before too
[02:42] <bddebian> mdz: Know anything about gnomen-menus? :-)
[02:42] <bddebian> Err s/gnomen/gnome/
[02:42] <jdub> bddebian: #ubuntu-desktop
[02:42] <mdz> bddebian: I know something about everything and everything about nothing
[02:42] <jdub> bddebian: probably a bit late for the core desktop hackeurs
[02:43] <bddebian> mdz: Ahh
[02:43] <bddebian> jdub: Thx
[02:43] <Amaranth> jdub: looking at gnome-menu-editor in gnome cvs might help
[02:43] <Amaranth> err, bddebian 
[02:44] <mdz> jdub: must be the crack I've been smoking
[02:44] <ajmitch> bddebian: gnome-launch-box is crack, ok?
[02:44] <bddebian> Yes it is
[02:44] <bddebian> But it's still broken and you know how I HATE broken ;-P
[02:44] <ajmitch> bddebian: last I heard it needed ported to the new gnome-menus api or somewhat
[02:44] <jdub> mdz: go to sunny montreal!
[02:45] <bddebian> ajmitch: That's what I'm trying to do.  ANd I'm fairly close (I think)
[02:45] <ajmitch> bddebian: why?
[02:45] <ajmitch> bddebian: you have checked upstream, right?
[02:45] <bddebian> ajmitch: Sort of
[02:48] <ajmitch> wonderful, zope 3.1.0 in debian
[02:49] <jdong> mdz: wow... that's what support communties are for :)
[02:49] <jdong> mdz: ooh, ooh, send him off to the forums :)
[02:50] <mdz> jdong: doesn't /support/ link there?
[02:50] <mdz> yep, it does
[02:51] <jdong> mdz: yeah, 3 layers deep into links :)
[02:53] <jdong> can someone with magical bugzilla powers mark 15281 INVALID? (nonexistent mirrormax repository)
[02:54] <Amaranth> consider it done
[02:55] <jdong> OT, any JFS users here? :)
[02:56] <Amaranth> done
[02:57] <jdong> Amaranth: thanks; and I just realized your title hasn't been updated at the forums yet...
[02:58] <Amaranth> my title?
[02:58] <jdong> Amaranth: yeah, you need a shiny developer tag :)
[02:59] <Amaranth> jdong: I need to find the Login button first.
[03:00] <jdong> enter's a magical key
[03:00] <doko> mdz: any chance for a zope3 sync this week?
[03:00] <mdz> doko: it looks reasonable except for the ZODB update; I don't know what comprises that
[03:01] <jdong> Amaranth: there you go, now you show up as a developer (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=364417&postcount=4)
[03:01] <mdz> that's like saying  "SCSI subsystem update" in the kernel
[03:01] <Amaranth> ooh
[03:02] <Amaranth> jdong: i was hoping it was a shiny image like the edit and quote buttons :)
[03:03] <test> i did an update this morning and I have been having some weird idle disk activity, the disk activity blinks every second
[03:03] <doko> mdz: nothing directly in main, I'm waiting for feedback from jinty about schooltool/schoolbell testing
[03:04] <test> the light*
[03:04] <mdz> doko: "nothing directly in main"?
[03:04] <doko> mdz: nothing in zope3 uses zodb AFAIK
[03:04] <mdz> doko: what specific changes are included in the ZODB update?
[03:04] <jdong> Amaranth: we do need more shiny-ness
[03:05] <test> all my systems are having this problem
[03:07] <Amaranth> jdong: Can I be a moderator of the smeg forum yet?
[03:08] <bddebian> Well shit, newer gnome-launch-box from svn wants gnome 2.0 stuff :-(
[03:10] <Amaranth> 2.0?
[03:10] <Amaranth> it should work with 2.12, backward compatibility and all that
[03:11] <bddebian> Well I mean gnome-vfs-2.0
[03:11] <blue22> hey is it normal to have my disk activity light go on every second, all my systems are doing it after a recent update today, can anyone help me?
[03:13] <jdong> Amaranth: have I really forgot that???
[03:13] <jdong> Amaranth: sorry :-/
[03:14] <ajmitch> doko: ah, you did the zope3 update in debian? :)
[03:14] <Amaranth> jdong: I've been asking people off and on since a week after the forum was created. :)
[03:14] <ajmitch> doko: thanks, I've been starting to use it :)
[03:14] <jdong> Amaranth: I apologize for that
[03:14] <doko> mdz: http://www.zope.org/Products/ZODB3.5/NEWS.html, see the changes between 3.5.0 and 3.5.1
[03:14] <spstarr> hmm, i think we have a package build problem in koffice -> karbon14
[03:15] <spstarr> why is libdps* being linked in when they are depreciated ? (i know breezy has them in Xorg but they are not going to be there in 6.9+
[03:15] <spstarr> or freetype as the koffice are saying might be doing
[03:21] <Amaranth> jdong: I don't suppose you know why the quick reply button does nothing for me in firefox 1.5b1
[03:22] <jdong> Amaranth: I think we've heard that one before
[03:22] <jdong> Amaranth: we're using RC-quality builds right now; waiting for opportunity to upgrade... know of a few issues already, working on fixing them
[03:22] <spstarr> n/m... i know why
[03:55] <occy> is there a desktop team?  I know there was an ubuntu-art movement started, but I haven't heard much lately on that mailing list.
[03:56] <bddebian> occy: #ubuntu-desktop
[03:57] <occy> ahh
[04:03] <wasabi_> Hey how can one blacklist a module from the initramfs?
[04:03] <wasabi_> Hmm.
[04:16] <robertj^> isn't ubuntu-desktop kinda redundant?
[04:17] <bddebian> Probably :-)
[04:17] <ajmitch> robertj^: why is that?
[04:17] <robertj^> ajmitch: because everyone already thinks of Ubuntu as Debian for the Desktop or "That Penguin Windows thing"
[04:18] <occy> robertj^, heh
[04:19] <occy> Yeah, the team should be called: TUB 
[04:19] <occy> The Ubuntu Beautifiers
[04:20] <robertj^> ubuntu artwork doesn't interest me much
[04:20] <robertj^> Rebranding = Reinventing the wheel
[04:21] <robertj^> and 99% of users don't think its cool at all to have different icons on every distro
[04:22] <robertj^> By the time users sit through the splash and look at the wallpaper at once, they know if its something they have seen before
[04:22] <ajmitch> robertj^: the desktop team focuses more on desktop bugs & apps
[04:22] <ajmitch> rather than artwork
[04:22] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:23] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco :)
[04:23] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: g'day m8
[04:23] <jdub> robertj^: artwork goes way beyond the default desktop artwork (and in fact, the ubuntu-art team don't actually do that yet anyway)
[04:24] <robertj^> jdub: I know. Anything that goes upstream is great
[04:26] <robertj^> ajmitch: I hope it doesn't turn into cdplayer1 vs cdplayer2 vs DJ X flamewar ;)
[04:27] <ajmitch> robertj^: it's *constructive* work ;)
[04:27] <robertj^> is it going to appear on the community page any time soon?
[04:28] <ajmitch> on http://www.ubuntu.com/community/teams/ ?
[04:28] <ajmitch> the desktop team link?
[04:29] <robertj^> ahh, didn't even realize that was a link!
[04:29] <jsgotangco> ubuntu logo with hearts?
[04:30] <robertj^> jdub: you need some fridge magnet poetry of the day
[04:31] <occy> jdub, if you need someone who's interested in helping.  I'm here.  Do you already have your team picked?
[04:31] <jsgotangco> don't even let mako do the magnet poetry or else we'll be R-18
[04:32] <robertj^> getting it to look right at the angle the fridge is at would be difficult though
[04:34] <jdub> occy: the teams are open, jump on the lists
[04:34] <robertj^> hehe, btw speaking of usability I saw someone accidently click the desktop pager today
[04:34] <occy> jdub, I joined the ubuntu-art list
[04:34] <occy> I'm guessing that's not what I want.
[04:34] <occy> and it seems dead ATM.
[04:35] <jsgotangco> not dead, just quiet
[04:35] <occy> ok
[04:36] <jsgotangco> (you can always check the archives anyway)
[04:36] <occy> I don't have tons of time to devote to tracking things down, but if there is a project manager for the UD team who can assign some tasks, I'll be glad to help however I can.
[04:36] <robertj^> is there a story for the I want a pony on the fridge?
[04:37] <occy> robertj^, heh
[04:37] <Amaranth> the fridge? it actually exists?
[04:37] <jdub> occy: it's only recently started, doesn't have a huge mission yet, it'll pick up
[04:37] <occy> robertj^, Many years ago, when the moon was blue, instead of grey, there was this ancient pony... 
[04:37] <jdub> Amaranth: yes, for ages now
[04:37] <jdub> robertj^: no :)
[04:37] <jdub> robertj^: well
[04:37] <jdub> robertj^: well, no :)
[04:38] <Amaranth> link?
[04:38] <robertj^> and if so, do you have the appropriate magnets to...
[04:38] <jdub> fridge.ubuntu.com
[04:38] <occy> heh
[04:38] <occy> jdub, k, well... I'm sure you know how to find me.  I'll try and do my best to monitor #ubuntu-desktop.
[04:38] <jdub> ok
[04:38] <occy> cheers gang.
[04:39] <whiprush> jdub: hey.
[04:39] <jdub> yo!
[04:39] <whiprush> so, which things am I covering now? For the top 10?
[04:39] <jdub> whiprush: name your topics
[04:39] <Amaranth> ack, lightning is getting really close
[04:39] <Amaranth> i should probably turn this thing off
[04:39] <whiprush> gimme a few whilst I dig out my laptop
[04:39] <jdub> ok
[04:41] <robertj^> what top 10 is this?
[04:41] <jdub> countdown to breezy features
[04:41] <jsgotangco> whiprush: you edit for the fridge atm?
[04:43] <jdong> jfsutils should be bumped to 1.1.9.... stack overflow
[04:43] <jdong> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/jfs/jfsutils/NEWS?rev=1.26&content-type=text
[04:43] <whiprush> I have, in no particular order: "Edubuntu, Laptop Love, Launchpad Integration, Summer of Code stuff, OOo2, Universe Tour, 'GNOME stuff that isn't in stock gnome like serpentine and smeg', LTSP integration"
[04:43] <whiprush> jsgotangco: yeah trying to catch up actually. :p
[04:44] <Amaranth> what about smeg?
[04:44] <jsgotangco> Amaranth: the guy from pc world thinks the name is horrible
[04:44] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:45] <Amaranth> :)
[04:45] <whiprush> nothing, I think it would be cool if we highlighted what things make our desktop unique from say, vanilla 2.12.
[04:45] <jdub> whiprush: for the gnome stuff, let's just make that "new desktop features" (including links to GNOME 2.12 tour and release notes)
[04:45] <Amaranth> it's supposed to be offensive
[04:45] <robertj^> smeg is really pretty immature IMO
[04:45] <whiprush> okey
[04:46] <Amaranth> robertj^: in what way?
[04:46] <jdub> whiprush: splat them all on, they don't have to go public all at once, we can whip them through editing rounds and then publish day by day
[04:46] <whiprush> ah, good point.
[04:47] <jdub> whiprush: we're just off 10 days, so let's not call it a top 10 countdown, just a countdown :-)
[04:47] <robertj^> Amaranth: sounds suspciously like smegma no?
[04:47] <whiprush> heh
[04:47] <whiprush> ok.
[04:47] <jsgotangco> i can edit if there is a need for more hands
[04:47] <whiprush> nothing wrong with going past release either.
[04:47] <whiprush> I mean, keep going.
[04:47] <jdub> yeah, totally
[04:48] <whiprush> that flickr box was genious
[04:48] <whiprush> kudos to that
[04:48] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:48] <jsgotangco> they rock
[04:48] <jdub> i should probably do it a little more anal retentively, given that it's all based on spaces atm
[04:48] <ajmitch> whiprush: you mean the one with software that's not in breezy? ;)
[04:48] <Amaranth> robertj^: well, it was supposed to be a red dwarf reference
[04:48] <jdub> "Its round Its magnetic Stick it on your real fridge!" <- ha ha ha
[04:48] <jsgotangco> the filter is just based in "ubuntu"?
[04:49] <jdub> jsgotangco: yeah, using the ubuntu tag
[04:49] <jdub> so if people start tagging pr0n with ubuntu, we'll have to do something :)
[04:49] <Amaranth> robertj^: iow, a generic swear word (you smegging lunatic, smeg off, etc)
[04:49] <ajmitch> jdub: so if I put up my UDU photos tagged with ubuntu..?
[04:49] <jdub> Amaranth: do you know what it actually means?
[04:49] <whiprush> jdub: "udu" and "ubz" would be good ones too
[04:50] <jdub> ajmitch: aye
[04:50] <jdub> whiprush: stupidly, you can't do really useful expressions and get feeds out of them
[04:50] <Amaranth> jdub: Nope, just what I've already said.
[04:50] <Amaranth> jdub: Unless you mean it's short for smegma.
[04:50] <whiprush> it can export to flickr
[04:50] <bddebian> ewww
[04:50] <jdub> but i suspect people will tag conference photos with ubuntu anyway
[04:50] <jdub> Amaranth: yes
[04:50] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:50] <ajmitch> whiprush: no, it does old-style flickr auth
[04:51] <ajmitch> whiprush: so new accounts don't work with it
[04:51] <whiprush> ajmitch: man, weak. :(
[04:51] <ajmitch> whiprush: dude, I know
[04:51] <Amaranth> jdub: I knew it as a swear word, the menu spec makes me swear repeatedly, seemed like a perfect match.
[04:51] <ajmitch> lewing hasn't had time to update it
[04:51] <jdub> whiprush: log in, click 'contribute'
[04:51] <Amaranth> Unless someone can come up with a better (non-boring) name. :)
[04:51] <ajmitch> so I should probably dive in & hack it
[04:51] <whiprush> ah
[04:51] <whiprush> i was looking in administrate
[04:52] <Amaranth> I wanted to call it gnome-menu-editor but manny beat me by about a month.
[04:52] <robertj^> Amaranth: how about MooCow?
[04:52] <jdub> Amaranth: call it wtrgmepsu
[04:52] <Amaranth> meh
[04:52] <whiprush> what did you call the universe tour?
[04:52] <whiprush> stars of the universe or something?
[04:52] <jdub> whiprush: 'stars of the universe'?
[04:53] <jdub> maybe 'stars of the ubuntu universe'
[04:53] <jsgotangco> that sounds like a funkadelic tune
[04:53] <Amaranth> jdub: Did you just slam your fists on the keyboard and hit enter to get that?
[04:53] <jdub> though i try to avoid saying ubuntu too much on the fridge
[04:53] <jdub> Amaranth: no, it's an acronym
[04:53] <whiprush> I was thinking something like, "Warp tour of the Universe"
[04:53] <ajmitch> I hope you say good stuff about the universe
[04:53] <whiprush> like, hop into my ship, and let's hit the goodies.
[04:53] <jsgotangco> warpt tour of the Universe in search for the mothership
[04:54] <jdub> 'The Universe at Ludicrous Speed'
[04:54] <whiprush> hahah
[04:54] <ajmitch> jdub has already said nice things about the MOTUs, or at least one of them :)
[04:54] <Amaranth> jdub: I'm lost, can you expand it? :)
[04:54] <whiprush> "MOTUs have gone the Plaid!"
[04:54] <jdub> he
[04:54] <jdub> h
[04:54] <jdub> Amaranth: 'will the real gnome menu editor please stand up'
[04:55] <robertj^> I think the #1 feature for Hoary should be no more ubuntu spatial ;)
[04:55] <robertj^> err Breezy
[04:55] <Amaranth> w00t, i think we have a winner ;)
[04:55] <jdub> whiprush: in 'new desktop stuff' -> "greatly improved file management experience"
[04:55] <whiprush> k
[04:55] <jdub> whiprush: "corrected everyone's stupidity"
[04:56] <whiprush> ooh, a tour of that should be good.
[04:56] <jdub> whiprush: "would you believe THIS CLOSE to solving worldwide famine"
[04:56] <Amaranth> robertj^: I think the #1 feature for breezy should be no more spacial, period. ;)
[04:56] <jdub> oh, a good thing for the new desktop stuff is snaps of the new artwork
[04:56] <whiprush> jdub: I'm gonna add a few, even though most of it is rough crap right now.
[04:57] <jdub> whiprush: no probs
[04:57] <robertj^> Amaranth: oh that the icons of the desktop would disappear and it would no longer blight my home directory
[04:57] <jdub> whiprush: maybe put DRAFT in the titles of the ones you don't want edited for publishing?
[04:57] <whiprush> ok
[04:58] <jsgotangco> err
[04:58] <jdub> (where edited means, "jeff gets anal retentive about tagging, grammar, punctuation, etc" rather than "let's add extra bits"
[04:58] <jsgotangco> are you doing a quick tour???
[04:58] <whiprush> access denied, can't edit the title.
[04:58] <jdub> jsgotangco: we're doing a bunch of stories pimping cool shit in breezy as we count down to its release
[04:58] <whiprush> anyone know if corey is still doing that tour thing?
[04:58] <jsgotangco> jdub: ahhh
[04:59] <jsgotangco> whiprush: it seems he's been busy and it lacks screenshots
[04:59] <whiprush> hmmm
[04:59] <whiprush> His stuff is real good.
[04:59] <jmg> hey all
[04:59] <whiprush> I say we rip off lots of his stuff.
[04:59] <whiprush> :p
[04:59] <jsgotangco> let me check if there is an update
[04:59] <whiprush> k
[04:59] <jsgotangco> whiprush: sure
[04:59] <jdub> whiprush: maybe we should chat to him about authoring it for the fridge - might be a better venue for it than 'random web page somewhere'
[04:59] <whiprush> jdub: yeah
[05:00] <jmg> anyone see messages about version 18 of wireless extension?
[05:00] <whiprush> since, like, both me and him fell off the face of the planet each have half finished projects ...
[05:00] <jmg> Warning: Driver for device wifi0 recommend version 18 of Wireless Extension, but has been compiled with version 17, therefore some driver features may not be available...
[05:00] <jmg> using hostap driver compiled with module-assistant
[05:01] <jmg> any idea?
[05:01] <Amaranth> jdub: I think I'll go with wtrgmepsu, I just need to get more opinions. :) Also, I'm concerned about people not knowing how to spell it to install it.
[05:01] <jsgotangco> whiprush: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/gnome/quicktour/ svn please
[05:02] <jsgotangco> it lacks screenshots at the moment
[05:03] <jmg> hmm
[05:05] <whiprush> jdub: I did a [TOUR]  one so it doesn't get mixed in with the other stuff
[05:05] <whiprush> k, now, how do I go back and reedit?
[05:06] <whiprush> I'll start with these three.
[05:06] <jdub> it's not letting you change those?
[05:06] <robertj^> jsgotangco: that intro seems kinda geeky to me
[05:06] <whiprush> I get a Coming Soon!
[05:06] <jdub> when you click edit, or when you go to the node?
[05:06] <whiprush> no, I have a "view"
[05:06] <whiprush> clicking on it spits out an access denied on the log
[05:07] <jdub> you totally have 'edit own stories' privileges
[05:07] <jdub> fascist
[05:07] <whiprush> I blame the software!
[05:07] <jdub> so do i!
[05:08] <robertj^> Automatic Updates are good, PDF viewing is good although speed is probably not an issue most people care about, OO2 is good.
[05:08] <jdub> whiprush: sec
[05:09] <jdub> whiprush: try again
[05:09] <whiprush> man, that icon turned out sweet.
[05:09] <whiprush> And they laughed at us in Sydney. pffft.
[05:09] <ajmitch> whiprush: well yeah.. ;)
[05:09] <whiprush> jdub: booyah
[05:09] <jdub> which icon?
[05:10] <whiprush> the fridge
[05:10] <whiprush> what else?
[05:10] <jdub> oh
[05:10] <robertj^> whip: it is. I still say there needs to be fridge magnet poetry on it though
[05:10] <whiprush> any gotchas on editing in the cms or is it like the wiki? (locks and stuff)
[05:11] <whiprush> heh, trendy Fridge AJAX magnet poetry.
[05:11] <robertj^> btw I've got an A with a circumflex of some sort over it next to the read more link
[05:11] <jdub> whiprush: no locks, but i think it detects changes made underneath you
[05:11] <whiprush> k
[05:11] <whiprush> I'll be in the universe tour. :)
[05:11] <jdub> robertj^: what locale are you in?
[05:11] <robertj^> US English with current Safari
[05:12] <jdub> ah, safari
[05:12] <robertj^> (my wife stole my laptop!)
[05:12] <jdub> interesting
[05:12] <jdub> i haven't tried it in safari yet
[05:12] <jdub> i should reinstall osx on my ibook
[05:12] <robertj^> jdub: btw Safari really sucks
[05:12] <robertj^> especially because 10.2.8 users have a really busted version that chokes on perfectly good css
[05:13] <jdub> well hey, if you build on sand...
[05:13] <jdub> ;-) ;-) ;-)
[05:13] <Amaranth> ooh, bad mouthing khtml, you've got guts
[05:14] <robertj^> hehe. 2/4 servers are running Ubuntu
[05:14] <Amaranth> those guys will eat you up, spit you out, then take a piss on the remains :D
[05:14] <robertj^> file server may be next though
[05:15] <Amaranth> your fileserver isn't running linux? that seems to be the only thing anyone ever uses it for if they don't use it on the desktop
[05:15] <robertj^> Amaranth: Open Directory isn't all terrible
[05:16] <Amaranth> does not compute
[05:16] <robertj^> Open Directory = Kerberos + slapd
[05:17] <robertj^> + some replication framework over ssh that uses chewing gum and rubber bands but sometimes works
[05:19] <robertj^> I need to check again but last time I looked samba + ldap in Debian was a minor black art
[05:21] <maswan> jdub: :)
[05:32] <jdub> whiprush: you going to be at UBZ?
[05:32] <whiprush> jdub: I will try to make it for a few days
[05:32] <jdub> whiprush: love day?
[05:33] <whiprush> someone from our loco team will be there though along with jam
[05:33] <whiprush> jdub: probably, will try to come for the whole event.
[05:34] <crimsun> whiprush: hey, I understand you met Kevin Otte and Jason Tower from TriLUG at OLF
[05:37] <whiprush> yeah.
[05:38] <maswan> Hmm.. where/when is the next ubuntu conf?
[05:38] <wasabi_> don't suppose there is any idea what would make this system reboot immediatly upon grub completing.
[05:38] <maswan> is that known yet?
[05:38] <wasabi_> doesn't even look like it loads the kernel
[05:38] <jdub> maswan: nup
[05:41] <maswan> jdub: Ok, I was thinking of trying to get to it and perhaps even present, if I get around to it. :)
[05:41] <jdub> maswan: rawk :)
[05:41] <jdub> maswan: though we don't really have 'presentations'
[05:41] <jdub> oh, except for ubuntu love day
[05:42] <maswan> jdub: well, yeah, bof session on a theme would be much more my style anyway. :)
[05:42] <maswan> jdub: but then, if things go well, we'll love ubuntu by then and might want to share the love
[05:42] <jdub> maswan: spec-writing? :-)
[05:43] <maswan> jdub: right. as soon as I get around to it. :)
[05:43] <`anthony> is there something wrong with apt and universe at the moment? WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
[05:43] <`anthony>  ncftp
[05:43] <`anthony> with breezy
[05:43] <`anthony> that's an up-to-date breezy, too
[05:44] <maswan> jdub: thing is, if I "present", that's a plus in the "convincing boss to pay trip" struggle. ;)
[05:45] <jdub> `anthony: do a couple of apt-get updates
[05:52] <wasabi_> Oooh. Annoying grubish bu
[05:52] <wasabi_> bug
[05:52] <wasabi_> I need menu.lst to be autogenerated without /boot on the prefix
[05:53] <jbailey> Eh?
[05:53] <jbailey> You wnat it in /grub/menu.lst?
[05:54] <wasabi_> yup
[05:54] <jbailey> And that's desirable, how? =)
[05:54] <wasabi_> well, mostly it's the autogenerated kernel and initrd lines
[05:55] <wasabi_> They expect /boot/vmlinuz*
[05:55] <jbailey> Remove link_in_boot = yes
[05:55] <jbailey> from /etc/kernel-img.conf
[05:55] <wasabi_> ahh
[05:55] <wasabi_> my boot partition is a vfat drive. ;)
[05:55] <wasabi_> I can't support links haha
[05:55] <jbailey> Err.
[05:55] <jbailey> eww. =)
[05:55] <wasabi_> Yeah. This is that embedded system.
[05:55] <jbailey> You might just want to get rid of the do_symlinks = yes
[05:55] <jbailey> option then
[05:55] <wasabi_> /dev/hda1 is a flash device with the kernel and initrd and root.img
[05:55] <jbailey> update-grub doesn't need them.
[05:56] <wasabi_> being able to "flash" updates to it from windows, just by copying some files to it, is pretty slick
[05:56] <wasabi_> ok
[05:56] <jbailey> Remember to actually delete the old symlinks, though.
[05:56] <jbailey> update-initramfs will use them if they're present, otherwise fall back to the highest versioned kernel.
[05:56] <jbailey> But as long as theyr'e there, it expects them to be useful.
[05:56] <wasabi_> nope, that didn't do it.
[05:57] <wasabi_> It's update-grub which is rebuilding the menu.lst
[05:57] <jbailey> Right.
[05:57] <jbailey> but update-grub doesn't touch the symlinks
[05:57] <jbailey> So what problem are you trying to solve?
[05:58] <jbailey> (going to be in a couple of minutes)
[05:59] <wasabi_> okay, embedded system. removable compact flash disk for /boot
[06:00] <wasabi_> root exists as a loopback fs in /boot
[06:00] <wasabi_> /boot/root.img
[06:00] <wasabi_> So boot contains the basics, kernel, initrd, root.img
[06:00] <wasabi_> grub boots, loads kernel from /boot, loads initrd from /boot. initrd will setup root.img as a loopback device and mount it as root.
[06:01] <jmg> guys i have an issue with wireless in breezy
[06:01] <jmg> Warning: Driver for device eth2 recommend version 18 of Wireless Extension,
[06:01] <jmg> but has been compiled with version 17, therefore some driver features
[06:01] <jmg> may not be available...
[06:01] <wasabi_> update-grub adds this:
[06:01] <jmg> i am using hostap driver compiled with modutils
[06:01] <jmg> depended library outdated?
[06:01] <wasabi_> kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.12-9-686 root=/dev/loop0 ro
[06:01] <wasabi_>  /boot is an invalid path, as there is no /boot in /boot
[06:02] <jbailey> Oh.
[06:03] <jbailey> So update-grub itself is not detecting that /boot is a separate partition.
[06:04] <wasabi_> yeah.
[06:04] <wasabi_> it looks like that works, when /boot/boot -> .
[06:04] <wasabi_> my /boot is vfat, and doesn't support symlinks though
[06:05] <jbailey> Well, it looks like it wlaks the fstab
[06:05] <jbailey> I'm too sleepy to dig through shell code atm
[06:06] <jbailey> I suspect you need the bit where grub_root_device is set.
[06:06] <jbailey> Mm, no
[06:06] <jbailey> kernel_dir=/boot
[06:06] <jbailey> It looks like if prunes that off if it gets a value for $boot_device
[06:07] <jbailey> And to get that, it needs to exist in /etc/fstab
[06:07] <wasabi_> Heh. I really have to think about wtf is going to be in fstab
[06:07] <jbailey> No kiddin'
[06:08] <jbailey> I can't imagine there's much I can offer you for changes in breezy, but I can see it being reasonable to be able to override this in the config file somehow for dapper/
[06:08] <jbailey> Sleep now. =)
[06:08] <magnon> sleep well
[06:08] <magnon> greet the lady
[06:08] <jbailey> Thanks. =)
[06:18] <\sh> morning
[06:26] <wasabi_> wow man this is really annoying the heck out of me. kernel loads, system reboots.
[06:26] <wasabi_> has to be something with how I have grub set up
[06:38] <jmg> anyone here use hostap drivers? when i load i get not one but two ether devices
[06:43] <Lathiat> jmg: This is the wrong place for help with that, this channel is for ubuntu development, try the home page/irc channel/lists for hostap 
[07:19] <fabbione> morning guys
[07:20] <synackuator> evening
[07:21] <jdub> mdz: ping
[07:31] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[07:48] <pitti> Good morning
[07:48] <pitti> mdz: do you have a minute?
[08:48] <wasabi_> finally got the thing to boot the initrd
[08:49] <wasabi_> now I can finally work on the mount scripts
[09:00] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion: is the preferred approval method still to upload and request the approval? or do you prefer to see the changes first?
[09:02] <fabbione> daniels: ping?
[09:04] <infinity> fabbione : The impression I get is that it depends on the changes.  Small/obvious ones should be okay with "upload, then request", bigger shit should involve requesting first to avoid the effort of a big argument followed by a REJECT.
[09:04] <fabbione> infinity: ok.. i will wait
[09:04] <fabbione> it's not big change, but on a big package
[09:19] <pitti> Kamion: Is it generally too late to drop mozilla-browser from main? Or would you still accept an easy change that would allow us to drop it?
[09:19] <pitti> mdz: ^ same question
[09:21] <infinity> pitti : How easy would it be to shove it out to universe?
[09:21] <infinity> pitti : And do you mean the whole source package?
[09:21] <pitti> infinity: I need to copy the m-browser's shared libs to m-dev and drop the dependency
[09:21] <pitti> infinity: no, just the m-browser .deb
[09:21] <dholbach> good morning
[09:21] <infinity> pitti : Ahh.
[09:21] <pitti> infinity: we can't drop the whole source at this stage
[09:21] <fabbione> pitti: it's probably not worth it
[09:22] <infinity> pitti : I'm not sure that's worth the effort.
[09:22] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[09:22] <dholbach> hey martin
[09:22] <pitti> infinity: but it is -browser which has all the vulns
[09:22] <infinity> pitti : And -mailnews has enough.
[09:22] <infinity> pitti : And if we're doing new upstream releases to fix -mailnews, then we're getting -browser fixes for free.
[09:23] <lifeless> silly question, but is the acpi-support maintainer field accurate ?
[09:23] <fabbione> pitti: given that the source is in main, it won't make any difference for you
[09:23] <pitti> infinity: -mailnews is universe
[09:23] <infinity> pitti : Oh, cute.  So, you're proposing moving everything but -dev to universe?
[09:23] <pitti> fabbione: if the deb was in universe, we can care much less about updates
[09:23] <infinity> pitti : So we can just bury our heads in the sand about vulns?
[09:23] <pitti> infinity: the only change would be to move -browser to universe
[09:24] <fabbione> pitti: and how can you be 100% sure that the vuln fix will not hit -dev too?
[09:24] <pitti> infinity: we agreed to not *want* to suppose mozilla any more
[09:24] <pitti> fabbione: by reading the MFSAs, which I have to do anyway
[09:24] <jsgotangco> hey everyone we're building up Release notes for breezy please contribute appropriate entries for known bugs, faqs, etc. at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[09:25] <pitti> infinity: for dapper we need to completely drop it to universe anyway, unless we want to go to hell
[09:25] <fabbione> let's go to hell!!!
[09:25] <fabbione> that's what all users tell me anyway :P
[09:25] <fabbione> at least i won't be alone anymore ;)
[09:25] <infinity> pitti : Yeah, probably, but that likely means tougher work, like making sure things that want mozilla-dev can build against firefox-dev and such, not praying that vulns won't ever hit mozilla-dev. :)
[09:25] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:26] <doko> fabbione: but then you are in bad company ... ;-P
[09:26] <pitti> infinity: there are only three main packages that use m-dev
[09:26] <fabbione> doko: no no.. that's because i love you all :)
[09:26] <pitti> infinity: and one builds clean against f-dev
[09:27] <pitti> infinity: I talked with doko about OO.o (the second package)
[09:27] <pitti> infinity: and we can certainly find a solution for enigmail
[09:28] <infinity> pitti : I can probably split enigmail into two source packages, if we have to.
[09:28] <pitti> infinity: for dapper that might be necessary, yes
[09:28] <infinity> pitti : I'm just sayting that, for now, we can't drop mozilla-dev, we're way too late for that, and I'm not entirely sure how much we buy from dropping -browser and keeping -dev.
[09:30] <infinity> (But argue away... I'm not done with my arguing for the week either, I'm sure) :)
[09:30] <doko> Noooooooooooooo, the OO.u fonts for the user interface did change. Diziet !!!!!!!
[09:30] <infinity> OO.u?
[09:31] <doko> s/u/o/
[09:31] <pitti> infinity: OpenOffice unlimited :-)
[09:31] <doko> infinity: but we can split -browser in -libs and -browser and demote -browser
[09:31] <infinity> doko : What did they change from/to?... The look okay to me..
[09:32] <pitti> infinity, Kamion: btw, this is the debdiff we talk about: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/patches/mozilla.diff
[09:32] <doko> for me it looks like a condensed font, see http://people.debian.org/~doko/tmp/ooo/Screenshot.png
[09:33] <infinity> pitti : Ugh.  Having identical files in both packages and a Replaces is Just Plain Wrong.
[09:33] <pitti> infinity: the clean alternative would be to split them out into mozilla-libs
[09:33] <pitti> infinity: but that requires an additional package; it's fine for me, too, though
[09:34] <infinity> doko : Uhh, do I need to install something special to get help?
[09:34] <pitti> infinity: but for testing buildability of the rdepends it's good enough
[09:34] <infinity> doko : I just get "The help system could not be started"
[09:34] <doko> infinity: no, that's something else, but look at the window in the background. same font
[09:35] <infinity> doko : Yeah, looks okay here.  Whacky.
[09:35] <infinity> doko : So, why doesn't help work? :)
[09:36] <pitti> infinity: so in terms of testing, librsvg2 and enigmail work perfectly with this; this leaves me with OO.o which I can't test without a proper internet connection...
[09:36] <seb128> hi
[09:36] <seb128> so, who broke my fonts? :)
[09:36] <doko> infinity: ask again, and you will debug it ... 
[09:36] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:36] <seb128> hey pitti 
[09:42] <seb128> Diziet: your 2.3.2-1ubuntu3 breaks my "Fixed" font
[09:42] <seb128> ups
[09:42] <seb128> Diziet: your fontconfig 2.3.2-1ubuntu3 breaks my "Fixed" font, downgrading to 2.3.2-1ubuntu2 fixes the issue
[09:43] <tepsipakki> seb128: which size do you use? I've had problems with Fixed 10 for ages
[09:43] <seb128> Fixed 20
[09:43] <seb128> which was working fine for months
[09:43] <fabbione> hmmm
[09:44] <tepsipakki> that's big =
[09:44] <seb128> until today
[09:44] <tepsipakki> =)
[09:44] <seb128> tepsipakki: that uses my 10x10 font
[09:44] <seb128> ups
[09:44] <seb128> 10x20
[09:44] <seb128> which is not that big
[09:44] <tepsipakki> copying the font in .fonts should fix it?
[09:45] <seb128> the fonts are from .fonts
[09:45] <tepsipakki> does it for the Fixed 10 (ie. 6x13)
[09:45] <seb128> for months
[09:45] <tepsipakki> ok
[09:45] <seb128> what are you trying to prove? That the upgrade is right to break my working config ? :)
[09:45] <fabbione> seb128: if i give a test pkg, can you try it?
[09:45] <seb128> fabbione: sure
[09:45] <fabbione> seb128: if so.. what arch?
[09:45] <seb128> i386
[09:45] <fabbione> ok
[09:46] <tepsipakki> seb128: nono ;)
[09:46] <tepsipakki> seb128: just thought that it might be similar to my problem
[09:47] <fabbione> seb128: can you check what you have in /usr/lib/X11/fonts ?
[09:47] <fabbione> i mean /usr/lib/X11
[09:47] <fabbione> if fonts points to /usr/share/X11/fonts
[09:47] <seb128> $ ls /usr/lib/X11
[09:47] <seb128> fonts  locale  rgb.txt  x11perfcomp  xkb  xsm
[09:47] <seb128> no, that's a folder
[09:48] <fabbione> hmmm you sure?
[09:48] <fabbione> it should be a symlink
[09:48] <seb128> $ ls -l /usr/lib/X11/ | grep fonts
[09:48] <seb128> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 2005-09-28 23:00 fonts
[09:48] <fabbione> what's inside?
[09:48] <seb128> $ ls /usr/lib/X11/fonts/
[09:48] <seb128> 100dpi  75dpi  encodings  misc  Type1
[09:48] <fabbione> and what's inside /usr/share/X11/fons ?
[09:48] <seb128> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 31 2005-08-02 12:12 100dpi -> ../../../share/X11/fonts/100dpi
[09:48] <seb128> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 30 2005-08-02 12:12 75dpi -> ../../../share/X11/fonts/75dpi
[09:48] <seb128> etc
[09:48] <fabbione> fonts even
[09:49] <seb128> $ ls /usr/share/X11/fonts/
[09:49] <seb128> 100dpi  75dpi  encodings  fonts.cache-1  misc  Type1
[09:49] <seb128> 
[09:49] <seb128> all dirs
[09:49] <seb128> except the cache
[09:49] <fabbione> ok
[09:49] <fabbione> can you try this:
[09:49] <fabbione> in /usr/lib/X11
[09:49] <fabbione> mv fonts fonts-old
[09:50] <fabbione> ln -sf /usr/share/X11/fonts /usr/lib/X11/fonts
[09:50] <fabbione> install the latest fontconfig
[09:50] <fabbione> and tell me if it works
[09:50] <seb128> k
[09:51] <fabbione> the cache files might be the culprit here
[09:51] <seb128> the package update regenerates the cache 
[09:51] <seb128> no?
[09:51] <seb128> doesn't work
[09:51] <fabbione> ok
[09:51] <fabbione> hmm
[09:52] <seb128> my fixed font comes from ~/.fonts
[09:52] <seb128> if that makes any difference
[09:52] <seb128> I've 10x20 pcf files here for it
[09:52] <fabbione> what do you have in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11 ?
[09:52] <fabbione> still fonts related
[09:52] <fabbione> so skip the rest
[09:52] <seb128> fonts beeing a dir
[09:52] <fabbione> seb128: it shouldn't make any differenve
[09:52] <seb128> $ ls /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/
[09:52] <seb128> 100dpi  75dpi  encodings  fonts.cache-1  misc  Speedo  Type1  util
[09:52] <fabbione> ok.. what's inside?
[09:52] <seb128> all dirs
[09:53] <seb128> except the cache
[09:53] <fabbione> is there anything inside the dir?
[09:53] <fabbione> +s
[09:53] <fabbione> or there are only 4/5 files per dir
[09:53] <fabbione> ?
[09:54] <seb128> $ ls /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/ | wc -l
[09:54] <seb128> 1484
[09:54] <fabbione> amen
[09:54] <fabbione> something is utterly broken
[09:54] <fabbione> they should be empty
[09:54] <fabbione> or with 4/5 files
[09:54] <seb128> I blame daniels 
[09:55] <fabbione> can you do the same check in /usr/share/X11/fonts ?
[09:55] <fabbione> i wonder if fonts have been migrated at all on your system
[09:55] <seb128> $ ls /usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi/ | wc -l
[09:55] <seb128> 409
[09:55] <fabbione> fixed is Type1 iirc
[09:55] <fabbione> or misc
[09:56] <seb128> my fixed font comes from ~/.fonts as said before
[09:57] <fabbione> seb128: yes i get that
[09:57] <fabbione> but the change in fontconfig doesn't change the use of ~/.fonts
[09:57] <seb128> so whatever /usr/... are that should not change it, right?
[09:57] <fabbione> it might fail because it doesn't find the proper fonts in /usr/*
[09:57] <seb128> $ fc-match Fixed
[09:57] <seb128> 12x13ja.pcf.gz: "Fixed" "Regular"
[09:58] <seb128> $ fc-match Fixed
[09:58] <seb128> 10x20.pcf: "Fixed" "Regular"
[09:58] <seb128> 
[09:58] <seb128> the new then previous version
[09:58] <seb128> $ locate 12x13ja.pcf.gz
[09:58] <seb128> /usr/share/X11/fonts/misc/12x13ja.pcf.gz
[09:58] <fabbione> where 10x20.pcf comes from?
[09:58] <seb128> ~/.fonts
[09:59] <seb128> I already said it twice :p
[09:59] <seb128> $ locate 10x20.pcf
[09:59] <seb128> /home/seb128/.fonts/10x20.pcf
[09:59] <seb128> /usr/share/X11/fonts/misc/10x20.pcf.gz
[09:59] <fabbione> oh right... .gz
[10:01] <seb128> fabbione: any other idea?
[10:04] <fabbione> seb128: can you check the top of /etc/fonts/fonts.conf ?
[10:04] <daniels> fontconfig is SO NOT MY PROBLEM
[10:04] <fabbione> there should be a few entries like <dir>/path/</dir>
[10:04] <seb128>         <dir>/usr/share/fonts</dir>
[10:04] <seb128>         <dir>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts</dir> <dir>/usr/local/share/fonts</dir>
[10:04] <seb128>         <dir>~/.fonts</dir>
[10:04] <seb128> previous version
[10:04] <seb128> let me upgrade
[10:04] <fabbione> seb128: this is with the old one, right?
[10:04] <fabbione> yeah
[10:04] <fabbione> daniels: it might not be fontconfig
[10:05] <fabbione> daniels: i suspect that on some upgrades xfont-core didn't move files/symlinks around as it should
[10:05] <seb128>         <dir>/usr/share/fonts</dir>
[10:05] <seb128>         <dir>/usr/share/X11/fonts</dir> <dir>/usr/local/share/fonts</dir>
[10:05] <seb128>         <dir>~/.fonts</dir>
[10:05] <fabbione> ok
[10:05] <seb128> with the update
[10:05] <fabbione> seb128: can you try add also <dir>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts</dir> ?
[10:05] <daniels> fabbione: xfonts-core does not move symlinks around
[10:06] <fabbione> daniels: i meant the source.. the binaries should be -100dpi and so on..
[10:07] <daniels> at a wild guess, I'm going to say that it needs to be both, because some fonts haven't been migrated or so.  but if you're getting 10x20.pcf.gz, then -base is doing exactly what it should do.
[10:07] <seb128> fabbione: is there any fontconfig stuff to run after updating the config file ?
[10:08] <fabbione> daniels: yes.. that's why i was asking seb to add it :)
[10:08] <fabbione> seb128: no idea... let me check
[10:08] <daniels> seb128: invalidate your cache with fc-cache
[10:08] <fabbione> fc-cache -f -v <-
[10:09] <seb128> doesn't make a difference, weird
[10:10] <seb128> fc-cache: "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc": caching, 0 fonts, 0 dirs
[10:10] <seb128> hum
[10:10] <daniels> there shouldn't be anything in there
[10:11] <fabbione> seb128: can you try to rebuild the package, adding /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts into debian/rules?
[10:11] <seb128> fabbione: sure
[10:11] <fabbione> daniels: seb128 has like 1450 files in there...
[10:11] <fabbione> seb128: 
[10:11] <seb128> daniels: 
[10:11] <fabbione> -DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --enable-docs --with-add-fonts=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts,/usr/local/share/fonts
[10:11] <fabbione> +DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --enable-docs --with-add-fonts=/usr/share/X11/fonts,/usr/local/share/fonts
[10:11] <seb128> $ ls /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc | wc -l
[10:11] <seb128> 244
[10:11] <fabbione> check that line
[10:11] <fabbione> and add the 3rd path
[10:14] <fabbione> daniels: what did you decide about mkdirhier?
[10:14] <daniels> mdz: ping
[10:15] <daniels> fabbione: will talk further about it with mdz; assign the bug back to me if you like
[10:15] <fabbione> daniels:  i did already :)
[10:15] <sivang> Good morning 
[10:15] <fabbione> daniels: yesterday.. i added a comment about the patch available.. 
[10:16] <seb128> fabbione: DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --enable-docs --with-add-fonts=/usr/share/X11/fonts,/usr/local/share/fonts,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts
[10:16] <seb128>  doesn't fix the issue ... should I try placing it before?
[10:16] <fabbione> daniels: and reassigned.. i didn't want to start another xorg upload pingponmg dance
[10:16] <fabbione> seb128: that's really weird
[10:16] <seb128> $ fc-match Fixed
[10:16] <seb128> 12x13ja.pcf.gz: "Fixed" "Regular
[10:16] <daniels> thanks
[10:16] <sivang> daniels: morning
[10:16] <seb128> still
[10:16] <daniels> sivang: hi
[10:16] <fabbione> seb128: try to put it before...
[10:16] <fabbione> i doubt it can make any difference
[10:17] <sivang> seb128: you know that some of applets are crashing / not reloadable ?
[10:17] <seb128> sivang: no
[10:17] <seb128> sivang: which one?
[10:17] <sivang> daniels: I've been experiencing terrible slow down in X the last couple of days, dragging and switching beween windows is a PAIN, anything you know about ?
[10:17] <Lathiat> sivang: ati?
[10:17] <daniels> sivang: running a radeon x300 or similar?
[10:18] <sivang> daniels: nope. nvidia
[10:18] <sivang> seb128: desktop switcher for start
[10:18] <sivang> seb128: lemme remove panel from session and restart it
[10:18] <seb128> sivang: have you fixed those lpi warnings?
[10:19] <infinity> sivang : I accidentally clicked "don't reload" on one of my crashing applets, and since re-adding it, I can't reproduce the bug, so there goes my chances of debugging/tracing it. :/
[10:20] <sivang> man
[10:20] <seb128> fabbione: nop, the order doesn't matter, still broken
[10:20] <sivang> damn proxy irssi failed on me
[10:20] <fabbione> seb128: i wonder if something in the B-D did change in the meanwhile...
[10:21] <fabbione> can you try to rebuild ubuntu2 
[10:21] <fabbione> without any debian/rules change?
[10:21] <fabbione> yeah exactly
[10:22] <Cashel> Allo... seems gnome-devel for 2.12 isnt in the breezy repository.. just a little fyi... or correct me (please!) lol
[10:23] <sivang> seb128: I have a perliminary patch, didn't test it yet - going to do that now. (btw, there are also compile time warnings that suggests why the warnings appear afterwards, something with incompatible types)
[10:23] <seb128> oh, cool
[10:24] <seb128> Cashel: that's an universe package you may want to speak with motu 
[10:25] <seb128> fabbione: that fixes it
[10:25] <Cashel> motu a regular in here? Perhaps I'll msg him next time I'm on.. .
[10:25] <seb128> $ fc-match Fixed
[10:25] <seb128> 10x20.pcf: "Fixed" "Regular"
[10:25] <seb128> Cashel: #ubuntu-motu
[10:25] <Cashel> ahhhh 
[10:25] <Cashel> thanks.. 
[10:25] <seb128> they are the guys working on universe packages
[10:25] <seb128> np
[10:25] <fabbione> ok.. so that excludes the B-D changes
[10:27] <fabbione> ahhhh
[10:27] <hunger> Cashel: motu = masters of the universe, the universe maintainers.
[10:27] <Cashel> Ahhhh cute :P
[10:27] <fabbione> seb128: can you please check confdefs.h with and without /usr/share/X11/fonts ???
[10:27] <fabbione> seb128: there is an interesting check on paths in there..
[10:27] <daniels> sivang: *shrug*, I haven't changed anything
[10:27] <fabbione> seb128: perhaps we need to add /usr/share/X11/fonts there too
[10:28] <dholbach> good morning mvo
[10:28] <fabbione> (there = configure)
[10:28] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[10:28] <seb128> fabbione: k
[10:28] <seb128> hey mvo 
[10:28] <seb128> :(
[10:28] <mvo> hey seb128 
[10:28] <daniels> mvo: you too, hey?
[10:28] <mvo> daniels: yeah :( my first this year 
[10:29] <fabbione> seb128: thanks
[10:31] <hunger> mvo: I hope you will feel better soon.
[10:31] <mvo> hunger: thanks
[10:31] <sivang> mvo: me too, I hate to catch a cold when it's still warm outside
[10:32] <jsgotangco> the feeling is awful
[10:32] <mvo> sivang: it's rather cold here in germany already :)
[10:33] <sivang> mvo: ah :)
[10:33] <hunger> mvo: Yes, the wether is getting really ugly already.
[10:34] <hunger> sivang: Will you pay for the trip? ;-)
[10:34] <jsgotangco> a beach BOF would be rad
[10:35] <sivang> hunger: hmm, I would have, if I could :-)
[10:35] <hunger> sivang: I know that feeling:-) I'd love to invite some interestting people over to my place for a fun time:-)
[10:35] <hunger> sivang: Of course I wouldn't dream of inviting somebody like myself;-)
[10:38] <seb128> fabbione: the diff between 2 builds has just FC_FONTPATH/FC_ADD_FONTS changes for the config.h, the differents Makefiles, fonts.conf
[10:38] <seb128> fabbione: and the code doesn't use the FC_...
[10:41] <lucas> hi
[10:41] <seb128> lu lucas 
[10:41] <HrdwrBoB> hi
[10:41] <lucas> how do I get a debian package (which is inside Debian/main) to be included in universe ?
[10:42] <seb128> lucas: it's done automatically
[10:42] <fabbione> seb128: dunno.. i have finished my options
[10:42] <lucas> seb128: it has been in debian since mid-august, but isn't in universe yet. that's normal ?
[10:43] <dholbach> lucas: we hit upstream version freeze, that's where the auto-syncs stopped
[10:43] <seb128> lucas: we have stopped the auto-sync during august, Upstream Version Freeze, etc
[10:43] <dholbach> lucas: which package are you talking about?
[10:43] <lucas> ok
[10:43] <lucas> feed2imap
[10:43] <dholbach> is it any cool?
[10:43] <lucas> I'm not the best one to talk about it ;)
[10:43] <dholbach>  why is that? :)
[10:44] <lucas> upstream + debian maintainer
[10:44] <dholbach> hehe :)
[10:44] <dholbach> lucas: sounds nice, from the description
[10:45] <seb128> lucas: oh, you are a DD ?
[10:45] <seb128> hey pitti 
[10:45] <sivang> morning pitti 
[10:45] <lucas> seb128: no, I just maintain this package
[10:45] <pitti> Hi again
[10:45] <pitti> I don't have any bugs I could fix safely for Breezy any more
[10:45] <pitti> does anybody need a hand with something?
[10:45] <lucas> seb128: I just started NM, and am currently waiting for my advocate to write something clever about me ;)
[10:46] <sivang> pitti: I could use some
[10:46] <pitti> I'm currently fixing pmount bugs, but that's not urgent...
[10:46] <dholbach> pitti: desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com :)
[10:46] <seb128> lucas: oh, k :)
[10:46] <daniels> pitti: sure
[10:46] <seb128> lucas: pllaned to be motu too? :)
[10:46] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[10:46] <chmj> pitti: I think BenC could use a hand 
[10:47] <daniels> pitti: #15372, as I don't have the time to work on it
[10:47] <dholbach> oh seb does recruitment for us! :)
[10:47] <pitti> dholbach: I have more than enough bugs, but none with simple fixes...
[10:47] <doko> pitti: #11028 :-)
[10:48] <dholbach> pitti: malone bug #1 :)
[10:48] <lucas> seb128: I'm not sure exactly of what motu is. but from what I understand, I don't really like the approach. when you are a DD, you improve both Debian & Ubuntu. when you are a MOTU, you only improve ubuntu, right ?
[10:48] <Kamion> pitti: I think it's far too late for this mozilla change, sorry
[10:48] <daniels> pitti: oh, you're on a modem.  i'm so sorry.
[10:48] <seb128> lucas: you can be a DD and a motu so you make sure that your package works fine on both, is imported, updated, etc :)
[10:48] <dholbach> lucas: not necessarily, since the patches are provided too
[10:48] <daniels> pitti: i spent a couple of months bitching about bz, then I got brodband
[10:49] <lucas> ok
[10:49] <carlos> pitti, the language pack cronjob failed again, I'm creating a new one now manually (just in case you have your cronjob in place now)
[10:49] <ajmitch> yay, new victims!
[10:49] <pitti> Kamion: alright, then I keep the solution (or a cleaner one with a proper package split) for dapper
[10:50] <pitti> carlos: I don't yet since I don't know the URL
[10:50] <pitti> daniels: I have broadband 95% of the time, unfortunately 'now' belongs to the other 5%...
[10:50] <zyga> hello folks
[10:51] <carlos> pitti http://mawson.ubuntu.com/~carlos/rosetta-breezy.tar.gz
[10:51] <pitti> carlos: that's always the current one?
[10:51] <pitti> carlos: cool, then I will setup a fully automatic tarball generator cronjob :-)
[10:52] <carlos> pitti, yes, as you asked
[10:53] <seb128> Riddell: the Debian maintainer says we don't want to move gconf depends away for -misc, playbin uses gconf by example
[10:53] <seb128> carlos: hey. What's going on with rosetta? It's broken for me since yesterday
[10:53] <carlos> seb128, define broken, please
[10:53] <fabbione> pitti: ping?
[10:53] <pitti> Hey Mr. Nitto
[10:53] <fabbione> eheh
[10:54] <zyga> pitti: hi, potfiles are around I smell :)
[10:54] <fabbione> pitti: any news about that kernel security patch?
[10:54] <pitti> fabbione: still not, I will contact you ASAP
[10:54] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[10:54] <pitti> fabbione: I'm afraid we have to do this one as an USN
[10:54] <pitti> zyga: yes :-)
[10:54] <pitti> zyga: I'll export the automatically generated tarball to people.u.c
[10:54] <zyga> pitti: excellent :)
[10:55] <zyga> pitti: will the URL be stable?
[10:55] <zyga> Kamion: do you have a moment?
[10:55] <Kamion> zyga: yes?
[10:55] <fabbione> pitti: works for me more or less
[10:55] <pitti> zyga: yes
[10:56] <seb128> carlos: " Oops Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad. "
[10:56] <zyga> Kamion: I wanted to ask about realistic chaces of ruby upgrade from 1.8.2-9 with some patches to 1.8.3-1, from unstable
[10:56] <carlos> seb128, URL?
[10:56] <zyga> Kamion: current ruby is broken
[10:56] <seb128> carlos: I had that yesterday and this morning but seems to work now
[10:56] <seb128> carlos: I was trying to update gdm fr.po file
[10:56] <Kamion> zyga: "broken"?
[10:56] <carlos> seb128, the /+lang/fr?
[10:56] <seb128> carlos: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gdm/+pots/gdm/fr/+translate
[10:56] <seb128> carlos: but that just worked
[10:56] <carlos> seb128, hmmm, that smells like a timeout problem...
[10:57] <zyga> Kamion: some issues that were fixed for 1.8.3 are present
[10:57] <seb128> carlos: grrr, I get those all the time
[10:57] <zyga> Kamion: for example alexandria triggers internal ruby errors
[10:57] <zyga> Kamion: I know that breezy is around the corner
[10:57] <carlos> seb128, please file bugs
[10:57] <seb128> carlos: you are saying that nobody knows that it timeout all the time? That's probably a load issue or something
[10:58] <carlos> seb128, yeah, it's related to load issues
[10:58] <daniels> god, I can't believe how much of a mess XKB was pre-xkeyboard-config
[10:58] <Kamion> zyga: surely those changes can be backported?
[10:58] <Kamion> zyga: release candidate is TOMORROW
[10:59] <zyga> Kamion: I'm unable to do such backports - the diff is rather longish and I'm not familiar with ruby
[10:59] <zyga> Kamion: all I can say is that 1.8.3-1 worked for me and fixed the issue
[10:59] <Kamion> zyga: we cannot just blindly update at this point
[10:59] <zyga> Kamion: understood
[10:59] <Kamion> we need to know the important diffs
[11:00] <zyga> Kamion: I had a look and it's a minefield IMHO 
[11:00] <daniels> christ, what is it with ruby and HOLY SHIT UPDATES right at release time
[11:00] <chmj> huh?
[11:01] <daniels> we had the same problem in hoary
[11:01] <Kamion> and ruby 1.8.3 includes a shlibs bump
[11:01] <Kamion> zyga: I don't think we can do this without somebody who knows ruby well who is present and can look after issues, and for that somebody to have been around since a couple of weeks ago
[11:01] <pitti> fabbione: However, I just saw another hole: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107893
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: it's an easy and nonintrusive patch
[11:02] <fabbione> pitti: let me look..
[11:02] <zyga> Kamion: okay, I knew that is a lost cause - I just wanted to ask
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: and we recently had something that could exploit writable sysfs files
[11:02] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. i am on it
[11:02] <Kamion> zyga: I realise ruby has long been a problem in Ubuntu (as daniels alludes to), but the only real way to sort that out is to have somebody paying attention to it
[11:02] <pitti> Kamion: is it too late to get security patches into the kernel?
[11:02] <lucas> Kamion: say I want to look at this ruby problem. When do you need an answer ?
[11:02] <pitti> Kamion: it's an easy one-liner fix, but I don't know about d-i interactions
[11:02] <Kamion> lucas: last week
[11:03] <Kamion> lucas: if you think you can backport a change from 1.8.3, it will probably have to be within 24 hours
[11:03] <Kamion> pitti: sigh
[11:03] <fabbione> Kamion: i am on it already..
[11:03] <daniels> pitti: if you're just talking about the drm stuff, making that file non-world-writable is fine
[11:03] <Kamion> pitti: mandatory for RC?
[11:04] <Kamion> I guess we might as well, grumble
[11:04] <pitti> Kamion: not really urgent
[11:04] <Kamion> well, we'll need it for breezy final anyway
[11:04] <lucas> Kamion: I'll see what I can do
[11:04] <pitti> Kamion: something we should eventually fix, but nothing really scary
[11:04] <daniels> as the name implies, it's just debugging stuff -- not touched by anything except the user when airlied wants crazy debugging output
[11:04] <fabbione> daniels: it's still a hole tho
[11:04] <pitti> daniels: no sysfs file should be world-writable, there even was a vuln about exploiting this to a DoS
[11:04] <daniels> right, that's why I'm saying it's safe
[11:04] <pitti> daniels: the vuln itself just allows you to trigger some printks
[11:05] <daniels> -> nothing relies on it being world-writable
[11:05] <daniels> pitti: i know what echoing 1 to that file does :)
[11:05] <Kamion> pitti: today's schedule is that d-i has to be built (which must come after everything included in the initrd is built, i.e. obviously the kernel), and then RCC images have to be built and somewhat tested; this all has to be done before 16:45 London time, when I leave to catch a train
[11:05] <pitti> Kamion: I leave the decision to you; it's not a biggie, as I said
[11:06] <Kamion> pitti: my inclination is to commit to doing another d-i rebuild for final
[11:06] <\sh> mvo, ping
[11:06] <Kamion> hmm, best start working through ReleaseChecklist
[11:06] <mvo> \sh: pong
[11:07] <\sh> mvo, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/cdrdao/+bug/2765 <- u implemented the last patch for it...but it looks like we have the same issue 
[11:08] <mvo> \sh: I'll comment on this
[11:09] <mvo> \sh: I wonder a) if it works for him on cdrecord b) why he wants it, the symlink /dev/cdrw should work fine, no?
[11:11] <Kamion> zyga: BTW, are there bugs filed about these issues?
[11:11] <\sh> mvo, I actually don't know..but scanbus is not working I checked it this morning...
[11:11] <\sh> mvo, but should work if you have more then one burner in your server ;)
[11:11] <zyga> Kamion: no, there are no bugs filed about this at all
[11:11] <mvo> \sh: yes :) looking at it now
[11:12] <zyga> Kamion: I didn't have time to file a proper bug as I'm killed by tons of work IRL
[11:12] <\sh> mvo, I wonder, if we should morgue cdrdao ;) cause cdrecord can handle bin/cue 
[11:12] <zyga> Kamion: I did get a word from ruby people arund the net that the issues were simply fixed later
[11:12] <lifeless> is this the ruby doesn't wrk with rails issue ?
[11:13] <Kamion> zyga: ok, I'm afraid we are generally unable to effectively track things not filed as bugs
[11:13] <Kamion> because we are also killed by tons of work ;)
[11:13] <zyga> Kamion: real time sucks near releases doesn't it?
[11:13] <Kamion> zyga: s/near releases //
[11:14] <sivang> Kamion: lol
[11:14] <mvo> \sh: probably not, it's used by nautilus-cd-burner to copy audio cds 
[11:14] <lucas> 1.8.2-9 was uploaded in Debian on 2005-06-29, 1.8.3-1 on 2005-09-20. analyzing the diff doesn't look possible
[11:14] <lucas> if it's 4.1M
[11:15] <lifeless> zyga: ^^ ?
[11:15] <zyga> lifeless: ? :)
[11:15] <lucas> zyga: I think the best we can do is make sure this doesn't happen again for breezy+1
[11:15] <lifeless> zyga: I was told that current breezy's ruby fails to run ruby on rails
[11:15] <zyga> lifeless: no no no
[11:15] <lifeless> zyga: I'm asking if thats what you are talking about
[11:15] <zyga> lifeless: it fails on alexandia 0.6.1
[11:15] <lucas> lifeless: it might be because of the rubygems issue
[11:15] <zyga> lifeless: I don't touch ruby on rails
[11:16] <lifeless> lucas: is this known ?
[11:16] <fabbione> pitti: i am going to give the same love to hoary..
[11:16] <Kamion> ruby seems to be moving very quickly; I think we really need somebody looking after it in order to effectively avoid these problems
[11:16] <\sh> mvo, oergs
[11:16] <lifeless> Kamion: likely.
[11:16] <zyga> lifeless: maybe you know something about internal ruby errors in 1.8.2-9?
[11:16] <pitti> fabbione: that'd be nice, thanks
[11:16] <fabbione> pitti: what about warty?
[11:16] <lifeless> zyga: nope, not at all sorry, I was simply carrying a favour for a friend
[11:16] <fabbione> we are in a half/half situation
[11:16] <zyga> lifeless: okay, thanks
[11:16] <pitti> fabbione: right, we should discuss warty maintenance soon
[11:17] <pitti> fabbione: Herbert's contract ended
[11:17] <lucas> lifeless: rails packaging sucks because they only distribute gems now
[11:17] <lifeless> and gems are what - small bundles of source?
[11:17] <lifeless> or a ruby specific vcs ?
[11:17] <fabbione> pitti: yes, but he still has the last changes on his hd...
[11:17] <lucas> a ruby-specific packaging system
[11:17] <lucas> which sucks.
[11:17] <lucas> but ruby people find it cool
[11:18] <pitti> fabbione: his current debdiff could be helpful then?
[11:18] <zyga> if you need someone to look after ruby for dapper feel free to take me :)
[11:18] <lucas> ZygmuntKrynicki <= that's you ?
[11:18] <pitti> fabbione: the patch for the other vuln was trivial, so it's probably not much work to redo it, but we can ask him anyway
[11:19] <zyga> I'm novice as far as debian/ubuntu is concerned but I learn quickly and know my way around source :)
[11:19] <zyga> lucas: yes
[11:19] <Kamion> zyga: I'd rather somebody just did it than that somebody waited to be taken ...
[11:19] <lucas> zyga: then you are on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
[11:19] <zyga> Kamion: well - I'll talk to you about this in a month when I'm less burdend by my work
[11:19] <fabbione> pitti: yeah debdiff is enouhg of course
[11:19] <zyga> :-)
[11:19] <lucas> zyga: same here.
[11:20] <fabbione> brb
[11:34] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. i have breezy and hoary ready
[11:35] <pitti> fabbione: thanks
[11:35] <fabbione> pitti: no problem
[11:41] <ajmitch> lamont or infinity: can you clear the dep-wait on phpmyadmin, please?
[11:43] <fabbione> seb128: 16869 is for you, but i am not sure to which pkg reassing it..
[11:44] <Kamion> Riddell: argh, your kubuntu seed sync wasn't a proper arch merge
[11:45] <Kamion> Riddell: you *must* do this with 'baz replay' or 'baz merge' otherwise you ruin our ability to track which merges last happened.
[11:45] <Kamion> Riddell: I will attempt to fix it up
[11:46] <Kamion> (probably by reverting your change and starting again)
[11:48] <seb128> fabbione: commented/reassigned
[11:48] <Kamion> ogra,dholbach: my comment about our support of jigdo was *only* about universe/multiverse
[11:48] <fabbione> seb128: thanks
[11:48] <Kamion> ogra,dholbach: jigdo is fully supported for our CD images
[11:48] <ogra> Kamion, oh
[11:48] <Kamion> I thought it was clear from the context of my mail
[11:49] <dholbach> Kamion: thank you, will take a look at the mail again and correct my comment on bugzilla accordingly
[11:49] <ogra> Kamion, not really, since the OP didnt specifically talk about universe
[11:50] <Kamion> > Would it be possible to provide official jigdo templates for breezy
[11:50] <Kamion> > for dvds of universe and multiverse? I know a lot of people who would
[11:50] <Kamion> > really appreciate this.
[11:50] <Kamion> It's unlikely to happen officially (the cdimage machine is already quite
[11:50] <Kamion> busy, and jigdo-ing things takes ages), but I welcome efforts to do it
[11:50] <Kamion> unofficially.
[11:50] <Kamion> I fail to see how that was in any way unclear
[11:50] <ogra> Kamion, oh, my fault
[11:50] <Kamion> "official jigdo templates for breezy for dvds of universe and multiverse"
[11:51] <ogra> i missed the mail in the middle :(
[11:51] <ogra> > > > Hello, I have built three isos with the Ubuntu repositories
[11:51] <ogra> > > > in three different DVDs, 1 for Main and a set of 2 isos for
[11:51] <ogra> > > > Univerese and Multiverse.
[11:51] <ogra> > >
[11:51] <ogra> > > Do you think you could provide jigdo templates for use with
[11:51] <ogra> > > jigdo-lite? So you could use the existing ubuntu mirrors for
[11:51] <ogra> > > downloading.
[11:51] <ogra> thats what i read ... sorry
[11:52] <ogra> but dholbach fixed the bug anyway
[11:53] <dholbach> only the first part of it
[11:54] <Kamion> you can probably point to http://releases.ubuntu.com/jigit/, but check that that still works first
[11:54] <Kamion> (it's a bit fragile)
[11:54] <dholbach> merci beaucoup
[11:54] <Kamion> just check for warty/hoary; the breezy one probably won't work due to the archive having moved on since then
[11:54] <Kamion> don't have snapshot archives yet
[12:07] <sivang> Interesting. Removing all apache packages leaves apache2 without a /etc/init.d/apache2 script for controlling
[12:16] <ogra> Kamion, does the ubutu DVD contain a live part ? 
[12:17] <Kamion> ogra: yes
[12:21] <sivang> can anybody confirm that or is just me and my weird setup..
[12:23] <sivang> ok, installing "apache" brings back the init.d script, however it controls the 1.3.33 one, and I want apache 2. argh
[12:26] <infinity> sivang : Uhm.  What?
[12:27] <infinity> sivang : /etc/init.d/apache2 ships in apache2-common.  It's a conffile, however, so if you deleted it by hand (did you?...), it won't be magically reinstalled without a "dpkg --force-confmiss -i apache2-common.deb"
[12:28] <infinity> sivang : This is true of pretty much all init scripts.
[12:29] <sivang> infinity: I didn't remove it by hand. But I will try with --forece-confmiss -i
[12:30] <infinity> sivang : Well, something/someone did, and I guarantee it wasn't my maintainer scripts. :)
[12:31] <sivang> infinity: ah right. I think I apt-get remove --purge apache-common and apach2-common
[12:31] <sivang> infinity: thnks
[12:33] <infinity> sivang : Erm, but if you removed apache2-common, that would have removed apache2-mpm-* too, which would remove the daemon.
[12:33] <infinity> sivang : So you're missing more than just the init script.
[12:33] <infinity> (And reinstalling it after a purge would bring the init script back)
[12:34] <sivang> infinity: yes, it seems that after installing it and it would stop, but wouldn't start
[12:34] <infinity> sivang : /etc/default/apache2
[12:36] <janimo> infinity, is the large udeb problem deferred after RC? thanks
[12:37] <infinity> janimo : No, it should be fixed for RC.  (the fixed upload/build is in)
[12:37] <sivang> infinity: I have those installed:
[12:37] <sivang> ii  apache2                               2.0.54-5ubuntu2                      next generation, scalable, extendable web se
[12:37] <sivang> ii  apache2-common                        2.0.54-5ubuntu2                      next generation, scalable, extendable web se
[12:37] <sivang> ii  apache2-mpm-prefork                   2.0.54-5ubuntu2                      traditional model for Apache2
[12:37] <sivang> ii  apache2-utils                         2.0.54-5ubuntu2                      utility programs for webservers
[12:38] <sivang> ii  libapache2-mod-php4                   4.4.0-2                              server-side, HTML-embedded scripting languag
[12:38] <sivang> infinity: still no go at starting the daemon
[12:38] <infinity> sivang : If port 80 wa sin use when apache2 was installed, /etc/default/apache2 would have been configured in a fashion that makes apache2 not start from the init scripts.
[12:38] <infinity> sivang : So, edit that file, and you're good to go.
[12:38] <sivang> infinity: k, will try that now - thanks
[12:38] <infinity> sivang : Note that it prints a big blinking warning on install when it does that.
[12:39] <Kamion> janimo: if you want to know about changes as they happen, subscribe to the breezy-changes mailing list
[12:39] <sivang> infinity: it didn't
[12:39] <sivang> infinity: and I have:
[12:39] <sivang> #edit /etc/default/apache2 to change this.
[12:39] <sivang> NO_START=0
[12:40] <sivang> infinity: woops. the default one has it set, sorry
[12:41] <sivang> infinity: does the init.d script prefer the /etc/default/apache value rather then the one set up in itself?
[12:42] <janimo> Kamion, I follow breezy-changes, but I don't know which package is concerned wrt this bug
[12:42] <infinity> sivang : Well, yes, that's the point.
[12:42] <Kamion> janimo: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12
[12:42] <infinity> sivang : So you can edit the small file in /etc/default, rather than editing the script itself.
[12:43] <sivang> infinity: cool, thanks
[12:43] <sivang> infinity: works now
[12:43] <janimo> Kamion, yup it's there in the changelog I should've read more carefully, thanks
[12:45] <sivang> infinity: anything else I should do to enable mod_rewrite other then a2enmod and drop a config snippet with RewriteEngine On under ./conf.d ?
[12:48] <dholbach> Kamion: could you (once you have a moment), sync gftp from sid? justification would be the changes from -6 to -10 (http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gftp/gftp_2.0.18-10/changelog)
[12:48] <infinity> sivang : Only do RewriteEngine On in the vhost(s) where you intend to use it.  It's pretty evil to have it always on, even when not in use.  Trust me.
[12:49] <sivang> infinity: you mean, inside the .htaccess file?
[12:49] <infinity> sivang : Or in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/$whatever
[12:49] <sivang> infinity: k, thanks alot
[12:55] <Kamion> dholbach: which Ubuntu bugs does this fix?
[01:02] <Kamion> dholbach: oh, OK, I see that the crash bugs fixed in 2.0.18-8 were not introduced in 2.0.18-7, as I initially thought
[01:02] <\sh> Kamion, when elmo is back online? :)  
[01:02] <dholbach> Kamion: #13179 should be fixed by -7 and the bug reports the debian maintainer fixed with -8 and -9 sound a lot like the other reports in bugzilla
[01:03] <Kamion> dholbach: it's not on the CD, so I've synced it; make sure it works etc. once it builds
[01:03] <Kamion> \sh: Thursday
[01:03] <dholbach> Kamion: i built it here and played a bit with it, but will give it more testing... thanks
[01:03] <\sh> Kamion, thx
[01:19] <Kamion> doko: I wish you hadn't included that clear-screen thing in your bash upload
[01:20] <Kamion> did mdz talk with you about that? I notice he didn't approve it last night, but don't have any other information
[01:20] <Kamion> I'd like to have the volatile fix though
[01:23] <Lathiat> is there any particular reason we no longer have animation in the clearlooks engine enabled?
[01:24] <doko> Kamion: is there anything wrong with the .bash_logout, or too late for breezy?
[01:24] <doko> Kamion: no, mdz didn't mention bash
[01:24] <Kamion> doko: I dunno, it just seems a bit late and it's incomplete anyway as Ralph notes in the bug report
[01:25] <Kamion> oh, and ps isn't essential
[01:26] <doko> hmmpf, ok. I'll make an upload with this one backed out
[01:26] <doko> Kamion: where does he note, that's incomplete?
[01:26] <Kamion> I don't buy Ralph's comment about su, but the rest seems valid: i.e. his comment that you can just shift-pgup
[01:26] <doko> ahh, ok, that thing
[01:26] <Kamion> clear doesn't wipe scrollback
[01:27] <doko> hmm, changing the console and changing the console back should work. any way to do that automatically?
[01:27] <Kamion> if somebody logged in as root and was looking at something sensitive, she can always clear the screen; whereas if it's done automatically it's more annoying if they *don't* want the screen cleared
[01:27] <Kamion> not really
[01:28] <Lathiat> that is oh so ugly
[01:28] <Lathiat> you dont really know what your switchign to
[01:28] <Kamion> certainly not that I'd take at this point :)
[01:28] <Lathiat> could be an xsession or something
[01:28] <Kamion> doko: yes, I think I'd prefer an upload without that, if you could; the rest looks fine
[01:29] <Kamion> we can do it early in dapper and iron out any problems
[01:30] <doko> db4.3 wasn't approved as well?
[01:30] <Kamion> it was, but it was also NEW, and I only did that part of the processing a few minutes back
[01:31] <Kamion> the binaries will show up in the archive in about ten minutes
[01:33] <doko> fine, thanks
[01:38] <Kamion> doko: approved now
[01:38] <Kamion> thanks
[01:54] <pitti> is anybody familiar with fontconfig?
[01:54] <ogra> pitti, only very rough
[01:55] <pitti> ogra: if you have time, could you please look at #15108? it's not RC-critical, but we shuold fix it for release
[01:55] <pitti> ogra: they have a patch which looks sane, and I will test it
[01:55] <pitti> ogra: but I'd like to have another two eyes on it to be sure
[01:56] <pitti> ogra: it basically asks for increasing the priority of mgopen (greek fonts) so that Greek is displayed properly
[01:56] <ogra> yup
[01:56] <ogra> i see it
[01:56] <pitti> ogra: I'm just afraid that this could break Asian languages
[01:57] <Kamion> right, that's the d-i build for RC in
[01:57] <Kamion> after next cron.daily that is
[01:59] <ogra> pitti, did you compare with hoarys fonts.conf ? 
[02:00] <pitti> ogra: no, I don't have the slightest clue about fonts; but I'll do
[02:00] <ogra> pitti, it lloks ok to me... but i havent ever used asian fonts 
[02:01] <mvo> pitti: I have a greek install here, I'll have a look if the fonts looks as ugly as in the screenshot
[02:03] <pitti> ogra: there are some differences to Hoary; in particular, some new Asian font family " "
[02:03] <pitti> ogra: (which looks rather Klingon to me :-/ )
[02:03] <ogra> hehe
[02:03] <Lathiat> qapla'!
[02:04] <pitti> Qapla', AFAIK :-)
[02:04] <Lathiat> yeh your right
[02:04] <Lathiat> im used to typing it lowercase now as its the hostname for one of my machines ;p
[02:04] <Lathiat> as is nuqneH
[02:06] <pitti> ogra, mvo: Hmm, greek text in gedit looks fine... 
[02:07] <pitti> right, but in OO.o it looks terrible
[02:09] <mvo> pitti: yeah, (almost) fresh greek install looks terrible too
[02:10] <pitti> mvo: I'll try the patch and also compare with Japanese and Chinese for any regressions
[02:11] <pitti> $ LANGUAGE= LANG=el_GR.UTF-8 gksudo synaptic   *shudder*
[02:13] <pitti> ogra, mvo: ok, Chinese and Japanese still look exactly the same after the patch; he seems to be right, mgopen does not have Asian letters, so it is ignored for Asian chars
[02:13] <ogra> pitti, so go ahead with it, i dont see anything wrong in the fonts.conf patch
[02:14] <Kamion> pitti: I just gave back lots of language-* builds that had been hung somewhere in the buildd network for five days; hopefully they'll actually arrive soon
[02:14] <pitti> Kamion: ouch, I didn't notice that; thanks
[02:14] <pitti> Kamion: they build quickly, a full round usually takes ~ 30 minutes
[02:14] <pitti> Kamion: would you accept the patch in #15108 directly after RC?
[02:14] <Kamion> yes, we already have 7 of them in unchecked
[02:16] <Kamion> pitti: yes, if we're doing other post-RC changes
[02:16] <pitti> ok, thanks
[02:18] <Kamion> infinity: what happened to gnome-pilot_2.0.13-0ubuntu10_powerpc? it built fine, then disappeared
[02:19] <Mirv> hmm, I'd think some Gnome-person knows instantly how to fix this: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/gnome-panel/+bug/2848 ? the bug (from start day of the week) is quite highly visible for any user of the locale, but probably quite easily fixed
[02:19] <Mirv> of course, it just has to be fixed in the correct place, wherever the actual mistake happened
[02:19] <Kamion> Mirv: please file bugs in the main distribution in Bugzilla, not Malone
[02:20] <pitti> Mirv: looks like a bug in the locale definition, I check...
[02:20] <Mirv> Kamion: oh, I thought I had used differend bug reporting tool before. why there's Malone/ubuntu anyway?
[02:21] <Mirv> pitti: ok, I will file the bug anyway, and see if I can cancel that malone bug. thanks if you can check if it's something obvious (and not breaking any other locale)
[02:21] <Kamion> Mirv: we'll be moving to it eventually, but have not done so yet. Universe uses it.
[02:22] <seb128> Kamion, Mirv: that's a locales bug
[02:22] <seb128> Kamion: and we have quite some dups to bugzilla already for different locales
[02:23] <Mirv> seb128: okay, I just found 16216 in bugzilla that has "Seb asked me to hold off on first_weekday updates until we can get glibc and gtk
[02:23] <Mirv> to agree on things."
[02:23] <seb128> data are not coherent between locales, so whatever way you pick you will have some wrongs
[02:23] <Kamion> seb128: sure, just might as well assign the bug to somebody rather than nobody
[02:23] <seb128> Kamion: right
[02:23] <Mirv> seb128: yes, I now found them as I went go bugzilla instead of malone. "good" that it's affecting many locales so it'll surely get fixed.
[02:23] <Kamion> I don't think it's possible to mark a Malone bug as a duplicate of a Bugzilla bug usefully, although you can add the Bugzilla URL
[02:23] <seb128> rejecting with the bugzilla URL :)
[02:24] <seb128> Mirv: that will not be fixed for 5.10 though
[02:24] <seb128> locales are crap
[02:24] <tepsipakki> how about the regressions regarding translations?
[02:24] <seb128> what regression ?
[02:24] <zyga> hi
[02:24] <tepsipakki> I compared hoary to breezy
[02:24] <Mirv> seb128: shouldn't there be some way to fix it in 5.10? it sucks to have most people have wrongly displayed calendar?
[02:25] <zyga> is there anyone around who knows cups enough to help me port old drivers?
[02:25] <pitti> seb128: humm, I can't find a field in a loale definition that describes the first day of week
[02:25] <tepsipakki> seb128: for example the menu-items on the panel aren't translated anymore (fi_FI)
[02:25] <seb128> Mirv: no, that would require a libc upload and I'm not sure one is planned
[02:25] <pitti> tepsipakki: did you install language-pack-gnome-fi?
[02:25] <Kamion> it's kind of annoying that we have no way to automatically install language-pack-gnome-* on upgrades
[02:26] <Kamion> I hope that's in the release notes?
[02:26] <tepsipakki> pitti: yes
[02:26] <seb128> pitti: I've talked about that with jbailey, some Suse guy, the GTK maintainer and mailed Denis Barbier, there is simply no way
[02:26] <pitti> Kamion: we have an upgrade notification for it
[02:26] <tepsipakki> f*ck
[02:26] <Kamion> pitti: ah, ok
[02:26] <pitti> Kamion: even translated :-)
[02:26] <tepsipakki> wait a sec..
[02:26] <seb128> pitti: locales are no coherent with the use of week_1stday / first_weekday
[02:27] <Mirv> seb128: argh, ok. I just thought that a bug this visible could use some temporary hack to have most countries displayed right. but do as you must.
[02:27] <seb128> pitti: current GTK code does (first_weekday + week_1stday -1) % 7  to get a week start
[02:27] <seb128> Mirv: no, it would need peopel caring about it but not 1 week before candidate ...
[02:28] <pitti> $ LC_TIME=fi_FI.UTF-8 locale -k LC_TIME | grep first_weekday
[02:28] <pitti> first_weekday=2
[02:28] <pitti> indeed
[02:28] <seb128> pitti: week_1stday?
[02:28] <pitti> week-1stday=19971130
[02:28] <tepsipakki> pitti: no I didn't.. damn me
[02:29] <seb128> so it does (2+0-1)%7
[02:29] <pitti> seb128: for de_DE it is week-1stday=19971201
[02:29] <seb128> should be monday
[02:29] <pitti> seb128: what is week_1stday?
[02:29] <seb128> de_DE has
[02:29] <seb128> week-1stday=19971201 == 1
[02:29] <tepsipakki> ok, so no bad translation regressions, then ;)
[02:29] <seb128> first_weekday=1
[02:29] <seb128> (1 + 1 -1) %7 == monday
[02:30] <pitti> tepsipakki: didn't you get the upgrade note?
[02:30] <seb128> pitti: you clock applet should start on monday, right?
[02:30] <tepsipakki> pitti: what, when?
[02:30] <pitti> seb128: the calendar starts at Sunday
[02:30] <pitti> seb128: (I never paid attention to this)
[02:30] <tepsipakki> ah that one
[02:31] <pitti> seb128: evo starts at Monday, just the small calendar with the clock is wrong
[02:31] <pitti> seb128: do you know the meaning of week_1stday?
[02:31] <seb128> pitti: the panel one? have you restarted it since gtk 2.8.6 ?
[02:31] <pitti> seb128: I booted this morning
[02:32] <seb128> pitti: not sure it was accepted yesterday evening
[02:32] <seb128> pitti: gnome-session-remove gnome-panel && gnome-panel
[02:32] <pitti> seb128: ah, ok, then I'll try again
[02:32] <pitti> seb128: I need to dist-upgrade, but I can't with only a modem
[02:33] <Kamion> seb128: it was accepted yesterday evening; you can tell by the timestamps on the binaries
[02:33] <seb128> pitti: no, I don't get the diff between first_weekday and week_1stday
[02:33] <Mirv> I also haven't tested anything else than the clock applet's calendar, but it gave (fi_FI) Tuesday instead of the correct one (Monday). should check as soon as I get from work.
[02:33] <seb128> Kamion: k
[02:33] <Riddell> Kamion: can I upload a new kubuntu-default-settings?  usplash.png file has fixed palette order
[02:33] <Kamion> seb128: BTW, installer-po/statistics is currently showing French as the only language at 100%
[02:33] <seb128> rock
[02:34] <Kamion> (although I still need to check why some stuff is missing from that - could be that's not actually true, but not much I can do at this stage)
[02:34] <seb128> Kamion: I've just done a daily install, the stage 2 is still english
[02:34] <Kamion> seb128: that's apt not the installer
[02:34] <seb128> I've updated apt translations some days ago
[02:34] <seb128> weird
[02:34] <seb128> like 1 week ago
[02:34] <seb128> mvo: did you use my updated po file for the upload?
[02:35] <Kamion> oh, CRAP
[02:35] <Kamion> pitti: please add apt to pkgstriptranslations.blacklist
[02:35] <Kamion> sigh
[02:35] <infinity> Kamion : gnome-pilot rescued.
[02:35] <Riddell> seb128: ldd says playbin doesn't use gconf
[02:35] <Kamion> infinity: thanks
[02:35] <Kamion> Riddell: yes
[02:36] <seb128> Riddell: this is french but
[02:36] <seb128> niveau elf
[02:36] <seb128> ups
 seb128: en mme temps, il y a peut-tre des plugins qui utilisent gconf mais qui ne dpendent pas de gconf au niveau elf
 seb128: en fait virer la dp gconf c'est vraiment risqu  mon avis
 libgstplaybin est dedans
 et playbin utilise gconf pour choper les audiosink et videosink
[02:36] <pitti> Kamion: just the binary package "apt"? or some more?
[02:36] <seb128> Riddell: basically no elf depends on it, but playbin code use it
[02:37] <seb128> Riddell: argue with mdz or Kamion if you want this move, I'm against it for 5.10, we are going to break stuff on the multimedia app likely with it
[02:38] <seb128> Kamion: the translation issue is due to apt beeing po-stripped?
[02:39] <pitti> Kamion: ready to upload if you confirm that only the binary package "apt" is affected (and not apt-utils, or whatever)
[02:40] <pitti> Kamion: no, that should be fine, there's only the "apt" domain
[02:40] <pitti> Kamion: uploaded
[02:44] <jdub> so after all that to-and-fro about deskbar-applet, finally Mithrandir uploaded it?
[02:44] <jdub> as maintainer?
[02:44] <jdub> interesting ;)
[02:44] <Lathiat> indeed, little buggy unfortunately
[02:44] <Lathiat> do you know the keyboard shortcut to jump to it?
[02:44] <winkle> there is none
[02:44] <Lathiat> that sucks
[02:44] <jdub> Lathiat: just saw the services applet go in, c/o seb128 :)
[02:45] <Lathiat> jdub: was already in :) new version :)
[02:45] <Lathiat> jdub: wrong sebastien ;p
[02:45] <winkle> I can't seem to find where to add engines though, only some width setting in preferences..
[02:45] <seb128> jdub: ? dholback packaged/uploaded deskbar-applet
[02:45] <dholbach> jdub: ?
[02:45] <Lathiat> hrm
[02:45] <Lathiat> looks like dholbach uploaded it
[02:46] <Lathiat> but tfheen just uploaded 1 too
[02:46] <seb128> winkle: it is beeing reworded upstream
[02:46] <dholbach> Lathiat: where?
[02:46] <jdub> see b-c :)
[02:46] <Lathiat> but with a -1 version and maintainer @debian.org
[02:46] <Lathiat> breezy-changes just now
[02:46] <Kamion> pitti: yes, belatedly
[02:46] <Kamion> seb128: yes
[02:46] <dholbach> that tfheen... tststs :)
[02:47] <seb128> nice that you caught it ;)
[02:47] <seb128> thanks Kamion 
[02:47] <jdub> that's a heenous crime!
[02:47] <Lathiat> dholbach: your versions width doesn't work
[02:47] <Lathiat> dholbach: it tries to expand right as far as possible
[02:47] <jdub> HA HA HA
[02:47] <jdub> <- HUMOURIST
[02:47] <Lathiat> and it seems to be missing the border on the bottom
[02:47] <Lathiat> which looks disconcerting :)
[02:47] <daniels> jdub: have you been hitting the malibu?
[02:47] <Kamion> seb128: I think it's too late to get it fixed for RC (given pkgstriptranslations has to get built first, installed on the buildds, etc.), but we can queue it up if there are post-RC changes to me
[02:47] <dholbach> Lathiat: hm? the width is fine for me
[02:47] <Kamion> s/me$/make/
[02:48] <dholbach> Lathiat: what about the border?
[02:48] <seb128> Kamion: as far as it's fixed for gold it's fine for me
[02:48] <jdub> daniels: vicious.
[02:49] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/deskbar.png
[02:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: (was that a by-hand sync?)
[02:50] <Kamion> hmm, no
[02:50] <jdub> Lathiat: dude. your theme.
[02:50] <dholbach> Lathiat: will report the width-thing to upstream, i can't reproduce the border thing though
[02:51] <jdub> dholbach: maybe muck with your font size a bit
[02:51] <seb128> Kamion, jdub: could we remove the gdm Depends on ubuntu-artwork and list it as a desktop package instead ?
[02:51] <jdub> seb128: hrm, but our gdm conffile changes point to the theme
[02:51] <dholbach> Lathiat: will do it later, now i'll be out for a bit
[02:51] <jdub> seb128: btw, what happened to -br in the config file?
[02:51] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, or rather initial upload
[02:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: since rburton asked if it could make it into breezy
[02:52] <seb128> jdub: nothing?
[02:52] <Kamion> seb128: not pre-RC
[02:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ^--, dholbach had already done it :)
[02:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: heh, 'k.
[02:52] <jdub> seb128: oh, hmm, now it's bakc.
[02:52] <seb128> jdub: when did you get the issue?
[02:53] <dholbach> i don't quite get why it got accepted, i mean it says "unstable" doesn't it?
[02:53] <seb128> dholbach: syncs from Debian do that
[02:53] <Kamion> but it wasn't an auto-sync
[02:53] <Lathiat> jdub: what about my theme
[02:53] <jdub> seb128: i have it atm when starting new logins...
[02:53] <seb128> weird
[02:53] <jdub> hrm, back soon
[02:53] <Mithrandir> I hacked the .changes file by hand
[02:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir hacked Distribution: in .changes
[02:53] <dholbach> seb128: it's neither in incoming nor in sid/stable/..
[02:54] <Kamion> dholbach: katie parses Distribution:, not the Changes: field
[02:54] <seb128> Mithrandir: you trashed dholbach package on purpose? you hate him or something? :p
[02:54] <infinity> Kamion : Permission to upload a new mysql-dfsg-4.1, disabling the generation of the problematic docs (they've been disabled in Debian in a more recent version, I'll cherry-pick the patch from sid)
[02:54] <Lathiat> hrm, the border thing is in fact caused by my theme
[02:54] <Lathiat> (clearlooks does it)
[02:54] <Lathiat> human doe snot
[02:54] <dholbach> seb128: i'm fine with Mithrandir taking the package... he can deal with lathiat and the first bugreports :)
[02:54] <Mithrandir> seb128: no, I asked about if anybody was packaging it in #-motu yesterday, but didn't get around to uploading till today.
[02:54] <seb128> Mithrandir: it was on revu yesterday
[02:54] <Mithrandir> dholbach: sorry for trampling over your work. :-/
[02:55] <dholbach> Mithrandir: don't worry
[02:55] <Kamion> infinity: how long does it take to build? libmysqlclient14 is in desktop
[02:55] <dholbach> Mithrandir: we'll be the deskbar-applet team :)
[02:55] <infinity> Kamion : Under one cron.daily cycle for everyone but ia64, I'd guess.
[02:56] <Kamion> infinity: all right then
[03:02] <Diziet> Re the thread on ubuntu-devel `ubuntu can damage your hardware? (radeontool)', has anyone looked at making acpi-support not depend on radeontool ?
[03:02] <Lathiat> jdub: http://bur.st/~lathiat/aero.png <-- better theme. :)
[03:03] <Lathiat> Diziet: yes it was backed out earlier
[03:03] <Lathiat> Diziet: however i highly doubt that error is anymore than a scare-off
[03:04] <Diziet> lath: Oh, good.  I didn't see it in -changes.
[03:04] <Kamion> Diziet: acpi-support 0.45
[03:04] <Lathiat> acpi-support 0.45
[03:04] <Diziet> Oh, yes, there it is.
[03:05] <jdub> Lathiat: oof
[03:05] <Diziet> That'll teach me to try to use vgrep when I can have a computer do it.
[03:05] <Lathiat> Diziet: heh
[03:05] <fabbione> Diziet: did you read all the discuss between Seb128 and me about your fontconfig changes?
[03:06] <Kamion> infinity: fyi, yours is now the last upload I'm waiting for ... not to hassle or anything. :)
[03:06] <magnon> Lathiat: it's still loading, and I'm thinking more and more that it's not worksafe :p
[03:06] <daniels> the radeontool warning is, indeed, a more sophisticated no-warranty
[03:06] <Diziet> fab: On -devel ?  If so yes.
[03:06] <fabbione> yes
[03:06] <daniels> given the code does almost exactly the same as xorg, last I looked, I'd be shocked if it destroyed hardware
[03:06] <magnon> ah, it was
[03:06] <seb128> Diziet: on this chan
[03:07] <Lathiat> magnon: oh its worksafe
[03:07] <Diziet> Oh, no.  Let me look.
[03:07] <Lathiat> its just skimpy ;p
[03:07] <daniels> and, put it this way.  there are no confirmed reports of radeontool destroying hardware, and I'd be shocked if it ever did.  however, we know for sure that radeon_drv destroys hardware.
[03:07] <magnon> :P
[03:07] <Lathiat> but the theme is more what i was talking about ;p
[03:07] <daniels> make of that what you will.
[03:07] <infinity> Kamion : Yeah, yeha... Bandwidth.  Buy me some.
[03:07] <Lathiat> daniels: radeon_drv ?
[03:07] <infinity> Kamion : Up.
[03:07] <magnon> Lathiat: The background is definately a big part of the theme, no? :P
[03:07] <infinity> Kamion : If you're really impatient, you can re-run cron.daily after you ACCEPT it, and I'll babysit the buildds into getting it to you ASAP.
[03:07] <Lathiat> magnon: i guess ;p
[03:08] <daniels> Lathiat: yes
[03:08] <Lathiat> daniels: (whats that?)
[03:08] <daniels> Lathiat: the radeon driver for xorg.
[03:08] <Lathiat> oh
[03:08] <Diziet> OK, I think I've read it but I don't understand it :-).
[03:08] <Lathiat> it destorys hardware?
[03:08] <daniels> yeah
[03:08] <Lathiat> .... how?
[03:08] <seb128> Diziet: your change breaks my Fixed font
[03:08] <seb128> Diziet: which used to work for ages 
[03:08] <seb128> to summarize
[03:08] <daniels> if we knew, we'd probably fix it.  just makes LCDs in a certain variety of laptop decide that life isn't worth living.
[03:09] <Lathiat> daniels: ouch, nice
[03:09] <Diziet> That's unfortunate but I don't understand how.
[03:09] <Lathiat> that is rather impressive
[03:09] <Kamion> infinity: approved, extra cron.daily on its way
[03:10] <Diziet> seb128: Did you diagnose it at all ?
[03:10] <Diziet> I have to say I don't really understand all of this stuff so please don't think I'm an expert just because I last touched it ...
[03:11] <Diziet> (GUI programs are always so full of layers, just to make sure there's plenty of opportunity for things to go wrong.)
[03:11] <seb128> Diziet: we talked on this chan with fabbione about it for half and hour, but I don't know why it picks 12x13ja.pcf.gz rather than 10x20.pcf
[03:12] <daniels> well, also because people like their fonts to not look like complete shit and most people want to reuse a font handling layer rather than writing their own and getting it differently wrong
[03:12] <daniels> but primarily to ensure things go wrong ;)
[03:12] <bddebian> Good morning
[03:12] <seb128> Diziet: I don't really know fontconfig neither ... 
[03:12] <infinity> Kamion : While we're talking cron.daily and buildds and such, do we need a new, unstripped apt upload to go with that new pkgstriptranslations?
[03:12] <daniels> fontconfig is relatively simple
[03:12] <bddebian> seb128: gnome-launch-box is not just a rebuild and the version from svn wants gnome-xxx-2.0 :-(
[03:13] <Lathiat> i thought that got fixed
[03:13] <Kamion> infinity: leaving that until post-RC, but if you could have the new pkgstriptranslations installed by then, that'd be great - then we can drop it through easily
[03:13] <seb128> daniels: so basically with dir=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts, fc-match picks 12x13ja.pcf.gz
[03:13] <daniels> seems sensible
[03:13] <infinity> Kamion : Well, the buildds update daily, but I was prepared to hit the chroots and manually update them, if you needed it RIGHT NOW.
[03:13] <daniels> i assume that 12x13ja.pcf.gz would be in there
[03:13] <infinity> Kamion : If you're leaving it to post-RC, I'd rather go back to my evening soon. :)
[03:14] <seb128> daniels: with dir=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts,/usr/share/X11/fonts it picks 12x13ja.pcf.gz
[03:14] <seb128> grumpf
[03:14] <Kamion> infinity: hmm.
[03:14] <seb128> daniels: with dir=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts,/usr/share/X11/fonts it picks 10x20.pcf
[03:14] <Kamion> infinity: ok, let's. I'll hammer it through.
[03:14] <seb128> oh, crap
[03:14] <daniels> makes sense to me
[03:14] <Kamion> I'd really like to get second-stage translations
[03:14] <seb128> daniels: without /usr/share/X11/fonts it picks 10x20.pcf, with it, it picks 12x13ja.pcf.gz
[03:14] <carlos> pitti, new language pack ready at mawson's URL I gave you
[03:14] <daniels> seb128: er?
[03:14] <daniels> seb128: okay, *that's* bong :)
[03:15] <infinity> Kamion : Alright, it's uploaded, so I assume it'll be Installed when your manual cron.daily is done.
[03:15] <infinity> Kamion : As soon as I see it installed, I'll touch all the chroots, and you should be free to throw an apt upload at me.
[03:15] <Diziet> On my testbed 10x20 and 12x13ja.pcf.gz are both in /usr/share/X11/fonts/misc from xfonts-base.
[03:15] <seb128> $ locate 12x13ja.pcf.gz
[03:15] <seb128> /usr/share/X11/fonts/misc/12x13ja.pcf.gz
[03:15] <seb128> $ locate 10x20.pcf
[03:15] <seb128> /home/seb128/.fonts/10x20.pcf
[03:15] <seb128> /usr/share/X11/fonts/misc/10x20.pcf.gz
[03:15] <mvo> carlos: any idea why I can't upload file for synaptic in rosetta? I have a ro.po update that I would like to add
[03:16] <seb128> Diziet: without the new path it picks my ~/.fonts one
[03:16] <daniels> seb128: heh, awesome
[03:16] <Diziet> So is the problem that it's not looking in your .fonts ?
[03:16] <carlos> mvo, because you are not member of the 'ro' team nor the owner of the potemplate
[03:16] <Diziet> And did this work when everything was in /usr/X11R6/lib ?
[03:16] <seb128> Diziet: that, or it looks for it but prefer 12x13ja.pcf.gz
[03:16] <carlos> mvo, send me it by email and I will upload it for you
[03:16] <Kamion> infinity: cron.daily's run; ready when you are
[03:16] <seb128> Diziet: yep
[03:16] <daniels> Diziet: no, because 10x20 is the canonical 'fixed', essentially
[03:17] <daniels> Diziet: and 12x13ja looks like arse
[03:17] <mvo> carlos: thanks, will do
[03:17] <carlos> mvo, if you think it's an usual procedure you should be able to do, file a bug asking for a long term solution, in the mean time the email or a bug requesting the upload is ok 
[03:17] <Diziet> The canonical `fixed' is 6x10, surely.
[03:17] <Kamion> infinity: oh, drat, pkgstriptranslations missed that cron.daily
[03:17] <infinity> Kamion : Gah, that upload must have happened after your daily run started.
[03:17] <seb128> Diziet: with 1ubuntu2 it picks the 10x20 since it doesn't know about 12x13ja.pcf.gz
[03:18] <seb128> Diziet: with 1ubuntu3 it prefers 12x13ja.pcf.gz over 10x20.pcf
[03:18] <infinity> Kamion : Just let me know when apt-ftparchive is done, I don't need to wait for wanna-build. :)
[03:18] <Diziet> seb: Yes, but what I don't understand is how this could ever have worked.
[03:18] <seb128> which is the issue
[03:18] <daniels> Diziet: i think we've used 10x20 client-side forever, since it scales better
[03:18] <Diziet> I mean, before it was broken by the fonts moving but not the path in fontconfig.
[03:18] <mvo> carlos: not sure, I would like to be able to upload po's for my own packages, but I'm not sure how often I'm really going to need it
[03:19] <seb128> Diziet: right, so my bug is not due to your change but rather "fontconfig picks 12x13ja.pcf.gz before 10x20.pcf.gz"
[03:19] <seb128> and it should pick 10x20.pcf.gz
[03:19] <seb128> because the other one is plainly ugly
[03:19] <daniels> i could just stop shipping 12x13ja ;)
[03:20] <Diziet> fc-match --sort fixed |head   produces much output, with 10x20 halfway down.
[03:20] <seb128> daniels: but do you know why it match on it for Fixed?
[03:20] <carlos> mvo, let's try the mail approach and if I get tired to handle your request, we look for a better solution ;-)
[03:20] <mvo> carlos: fine with me, thanks
[03:20] <daniels> seb128: *shrug*
[03:20] <seb128> Diziet: do you sort how it sorts them?
[03:21] <seb128> do you know
[03:22] <Diziet> Not really but fonts-conf(5) has lots of info.
[03:22] <Diziet> I mean, I'm rereading that now :-).
[03:23] <Kamion> oh, er, oops, not sure I can run cron.daily with 'sudo -u katie'
[03:23] <Diziet> Strangely there's no way of telling it that certain fonts are just ugly.
[03:23] <Kamion> (which doesn't change $HOME ...)
[03:24] <Kamion> infinity: try now, if the possibly-broken Release.gpg files don't screw you up
[03:24] <fabbione> sudo su - katie -c ?
[03:25] <Kamion> yes I know how to avoid the problem
[03:25] <Kamion> *in future* :-P
[03:25] <fabbione> :)
[03:26] <daniels> Kamion: -H
[03:26] <pitti> carlos: rock
[03:26] <infinity> Kamion : Good to go.
[03:26] <Kamion> daniels: same to you. I know how to avoid it, I just didn't that time round
[03:26] <Kamion> infinity: chroots updated?
[03:27] <daniels> Kamion: ah, okay.  was just offering something cleaner than su -
[03:27] <Kamion> (because most stuff in katie doesn't care so I forgot I needed to - it's just when it invokes gpg)
[03:27] <carlos> pitti, did you find any problem with the previous tarball?
[03:27] <pitti> carlos: the last tarball I looked at was last Friday's
[03:27] <pitti> carlos: the only problems with it were outdated evo and control-center
[03:28] <infinity> Kamion : Yup.
[03:28] <carlos> pitti, ok
[03:30] <mdke> carlos, do you know if anyone fixed update-manager for rosetta? if not, i might file the problem in bugzilla
[03:30] <mvo> mdke: I uploaded a new version that should be importable now
[03:30] <mdke> mvo, wicked!
[03:30] <carlos> mvo, thanks
[03:31] <infinity> Kamion : apt rebuild uplod on the way, I assume?
[03:34] <pitti> carlos: btw, will the other translation tickle into the tarball eventually, too?
[03:34] <pitti> carlos: about 60% are still missing
[03:34] <carlos> pitti, over time, not sure if all will be fixed on time for latest base package
[03:34] <Kamion> infinity: yes, it's in the pool and apt-ftparchive's running
[03:35] <carlos> we need to review all by hand and we have more than 250
[03:35] <carlos> pitti, I'm working on a better way to handle that post breezy so we don't have this problem next time
[03:35] <carlos> pitti, in the mean time, every new language pack will get more translation domains
[03:35] <infinity> Kamion : \o/
[03:35] <pitti> carlos: what is the primary reason? why can't you import so many?
[03:35] <infinity> Kamion : mysql is starting to upload. 2/4 arches.
[03:36] <infinity> Kamion : Make that 3/4, (ie: all the release arches)
[03:36] <bddebian> Did I see someone say yesterday that elmo is unavailable for a while???
[03:37] <Kamion> bddebian: yes, until tomorrow
[03:37] <carlos> pitti, they are imported, but I need to visit one by one and rename them to the right translation domain
[03:37] <bddebian> Kamion: Oh, OK, I GUESS, I can wait that long. ;-)  Thanks.
[03:37] <pitti> carlos: odd, my script is able to import the vast majority of tarballs without any help
[03:37] <pitti> carlos: maybe we shuold sit together and improve the logic of Rosetta?
[03:38] <pitti> carlos: I have manual overrides for some 30 packages, the rest imports fully automatically
[03:38] <carlos> pitti, no needed, as I said, we have a better way now, it's partial implemented
[03:38] <Kamion> bddebian: if it's just syncs, I can do them if you tell me within the next two hours or so
[03:38] <carlos> pitti, we just took the wrong approach
[03:38] <Kamion> (after that, I'm on a train)
[03:39] <bddebian> Kamion: It's about 5 or 6 packages
[03:40] <bddebian> Kamion: You want a list here or an e-mail?
[03:40] <Kamion> bddebian: here
[03:44] <pitti> lamont: ping
[03:44] <lamont__> ack
[03:44] <bddebian> Kamion: libchipcard2 1.9.14.99+1.9.15beta-1  from unstable
[03:45] <infinity> Kamion : apt uploaded for all release arches, and the build logs show dpkg-deb -c listings that look very unstripped.
[03:45] <pitti> lamont__: /home/lamont/public_html/translations/20051003/translations.txt claims that there is control-center_1:2.12.1-0ubuntu2.1_i386_translations.tar.gz, but there isn't
[03:45] <Kamion> infinity: hooray, thanks
[03:45] <bddebian> Kamion: libgwenhywfar 1.18.0-1 from unstable
[03:45] <pitti> lamont__: is this a bug in your scripts, or a transient error from shuffling files around?
[03:46] <lamont__> interesting... /me checks
[03:46] <bddebian> Kamion: libofx 1:0.8.0-3 from unstable
[03:46] <Kamion> [NOT Updating - Modified]  libgwenhywfar_1.14.0-2ubuntu1 (vs 1.18.0-1)
[03:46] <Kamion> bddebian: ok to overwrite Ubuntu changes?
[03:46] <bddebian> Kamion: BTW, any of these with Ubuntu changes can be dropped
[03:46] <Kamion> ok
[03:46] <bddebian> Kamion: libosp-dev 1.5.1.0-4 from unstable
[03:47] <bddebian> Kamion: libaqbanking 1.5.99+1.6.0beta-1 from unstable
[03:48] <pitti> lamont__: the version number looks indeed very binNMUish...
[03:48] <pitti> lamont__: no, source NMUish, but anyway, unusual
[03:48] <Kamion> bddebian: libofx is a soname bump, hope you're prepared to rebuild any dependents
[03:49] <bddebian> Kamion: libktoblzcheck1-dev 1.7-1.  However, this one build-deps glade (>= 2.0) and needs to be glade-2 so I can do this if preferred
[03:49] <bddebian> Kamion: Yes, it's mainly grisbi, kmymoney2, and gnucahs
[03:49] <bddebian> Err gnucash even
[03:49] <Kamion> bddebian: libosp-dev is a binary; you mean opensp?
[03:49] <bddebian> Kamion: Yes, sorry
[03:50] <bddebian> I had these all laid out in a nice e-mail to elmo but that's at home so I am working from memory here.. :-(
[03:50] <Kamion> bddebian: opensp is in main, not allowed
[03:50] <bddebian> It is?
[03:50] <Kamion> bddebian: likewise libktoblzcheck1-dev
[03:51] <bddebian> Fux, how the hell did I miss that
[03:51] <Kamion> oh, no, sorry, ignore that last one
[03:51] <Kamion> opensp definitely is though
[03:52] <bddebian> Well then the rest are pointless I suppose then because I need all these to get to gnucash and kmymoney2. Shit.
[03:53] <Kamion> bddebian: I've done the others
[03:54] <lamont__> pitti: interesting, since those versions (.0, .1) don't exist
[03:54] <Kamion> bddebian: why do you need opensp? the Debian changelog looks trivial
[03:54] <pitti> carlos: do you still need the hoary translation tarballs I created some eons ago?
[03:54] <bddebian> Kamion: build-dep for this chain :-(
[03:54] <Kamion> bddebian: (to clarify, done libchipcard2, libgwenhywfar, libofx, libosp-dev, libaqbanking)
[03:54] <carlos> pitti, don't think so
[03:54] <carlos> pitti, btw, should I do tarballs for Hoary?
[03:55] <carlos> I suppose I should 
[03:55] <Kamion> bddebian: you should probably fix the libktoblzcheck build-dep if that's needed
[03:55] <pitti> carlos: would be nice
[03:55] <bddebian> Kamion: Then you may as well do: gnucash 1.8.10-18
[03:55] <pitti> carlos: but the hit will be quite big since so many files changed
[03:55] <Kamion> bddebian: please find out why newer opensp is needed
[03:56] <pitti> lamont__: just removing the bad entries from translations.txt is fine, but I wondered whether there was a deeper bug
[03:56] <carlos> pitti, perhaps is time to generate a new base package?
[03:56] <pitti> carlos: hmm, we might in fact need that for hoary
[03:56] <pitti> carlos: further updates will be small, right?
[03:56] <lamont__> pitti: NFC how it got there
[03:56] <carlos> pitti, yeah, just changes
[03:57] <pitti> lamont__: ok, let's forget about it now; I'll complain if it happens again
[03:57] <Kamion> bddebian: gnucash even without opensp?
[03:57] <carlos> pitti, another option is to generate a language pack with all updates since Hoary realease
[03:57] <bddebian> Kamion: libofx
[03:57] <lamont__> and the script doesn't munge path names at all...
[03:57] <bddebian> libosp-dev (>= 1.5.1.0-2.1)
[03:57] <bddebian>     OpenJade group's SP suite, developer support
[03:57] <carlos> we would get less translations than we have inside Rosetta
[03:57] <bddebian> Kamion: Hmm
[03:57] <pitti> carlos: since this involves whitespace fixes, it doesn't buy much, or does it?
[03:57] <carlos> but over time that would be fixed
[03:57] <pitti> carlos: but if we do it, we can as well do it properly
[03:57] <Kamion> bddebian: -2.1 is the C++ transition
[03:58] <Kamion> bddebian: if it matches, you could temporarily weaken that build-dep
[03:58] <Kamion> (to >= 2ubuntuwhatever)
[03:58] <carlos> pitti, I could generate a full tarball export and get a diff like we did with breezy to know the changes...
[03:58] <bddebian> Kamion: Understood, and please don't take this wrong, but with the only rdpends being libofx and libaqbanking, isthere a harm in updating opensp in main?
[03:58] <pitti> carlos: that would rock
[03:59] <carlos> pitti, ok, I will prepare it now
[03:59] <pitti> carlos: if you have something to diff against
[03:59] <carlos> pitti, we could get the tarball you used to generate current language packs, right?
[03:59] <Kamion> bddebian: gnucash has a .desktop icon path change in Ubuntu; does that need to be re-applied?
[03:59] <jdub> mako: ping
[03:59] <Kamion> bddebian: it cannot happen today; the archive is frozen for release candidate tomorrow
[03:59] <bddebian> Kamion: No, it was fixed upstream
[03:59] <pitti> carlos: tricky, I don't have it any more, and it's nontrivial to generate
[04:00] <bddebian> Kamion: That's OK but can it not happen at all?
[04:00] <pitti> carlos: however, I still have all source packages here
[04:00] <Kamion> bddebian: it can possibly happen between release candidate and release, but we'd rather not touch main if we don't have to
[04:00] <pitti> carlos: so we could take the source packages and generate it from there
[04:00] <bddebian> Kamion: OK, I'll try to weaken the deps.  SOrry.  I don't know how I missed that it was in main. :-(
[04:00] <carlos> pitti, ok
[04:00] <Kamion> bddebian: gnucash done
[04:01] <bddebian> In fact I'm not quite sure why it is in main if everything else using appears to be in Universe :-)
[04:01] <carlos> pitti, I will generate a language pack for hoary with .pot files included so we can do the same kind of diff
[04:01] <Kamion> bddebian: well, your premise is wrong ...
[04:01] <Kamion> ship:libosp4                           | opensp                          | epiphany-extensions        | Neil Roeth <neil@debian.org>                                |          731628 |            2288
[04:01] <bddebian> Ahhh
[04:01] <Kamion> epiphany-extensions depends on it directly
[04:02] <bddebian> Did you get that with gmane or germinate or whatever it's called?
[04:02] <Kamion> as do openjade, openjade1.3
[04:02] <Kamion> bddebian: yes, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/breezy/
[04:03] <bddebian> Kamion: OK.  Sorry
[04:03] <Kamion> my intention is certainly not to make you feel stupid; I'm just pointing things out
[04:03] <bddebian> Kamion: No, it's not you.  I just thought I was being careful with this one.
[04:04] <bddebian> It should let me close about 5 or 6 Malone bugs
[04:04] <Kamion> the changes to the reverse build-depends should be pretty trivial, and you'll be able to get them out of the way more quickly than we can unlock bits of main
[04:05] <mdke> dholbach, is it correct to assign istanbul bugs to you?
[04:17] <Robot101> hmm, ubuntu-desktop intentionally doesn't depend on cron?
[04:18] <Robot101> on my laptop which just suspends and resumes, and boots only on battery power when I resume it and X is fucked, the cron.{daily,weekly,monthly} don't get run
[04:18] <Treenaks> Robot101: is anacron available/
[04:18] <Robot101> yes, anacron is installed
[04:19] <Robot101> is it worth kicking anacron when AC power is attached?
[04:21] <Kamion> Robot101: ubuntu-standard depends on cron
[04:21] <Kamion> and ubuntu-base depends on ubuntu-standard, for upgrades from hoary
[04:22] <Robot101> I debootstrapped this straight to breezy at some point, it seems to be a bit lacking
[04:23] <Kamion> install ubuntu-{minimal,standard,desktop} to fix it up
[04:23] <bddebian> Kamion: Aye, will do, thx
[04:23] <Robot101> ubuntu-desktop doesn't depend on -standard?
[04:23] <Kamion> Robot101: debootstrap only installs minimal BTW, not standard
[04:24] <Kamion> oh, I see the problem, our instructions go "debootstrap, then install ubuntu-desktop"
[04:24] <Kamion> they should go "debootstrap, then install ubuntu-standard and ubuntu-desktop"
[04:24] <Robot101> yeah I have -desktop and -minimal, not -base or -standard
[04:24] <Kamion> Robot101: no, we tried that out for a bit and it made some things quite awkward
[04:25] <Kamion> might revisit in dapper
[04:25] <Robot101> fair enough
[04:25] <Robot101> this would explain why update-notifier wasn't ever notifying until I ran apt-get update
[04:25] <Robot101> :D
[04:25] <Robot101> it all makes a lot of sense
[04:25] <Kamion> I've noted this in case there's another build of the installation manual pre-breezy
[04:26] <Robot101> I didn't actually read a manual, I just heard ubuntu-desktop was the magical thing to install :)
[04:26] <Robot101> this was at UKUUG when I wanted to smoke fresh dbus crack
[04:26] <mako> jdub: yes
[04:26] <Robot101> (and I didn't have any handy way of booting my laptop with the installer)
[04:26] <Robot101> Kamion: cheers
[04:27] <daniels> love the dbus
[04:27] <Robot101> I don't love the way introspection is optional
[04:27] <Diziet> Wow, this swsusp is really scary-looking.
[04:28] <Robot101> especially with python bindings which can't send an empty array over the bus because it doesn't know its type signature
[04:29] <bddebian> HrdwrBob and SexMachine.  For some reason that just cracks me up.. :)
[04:37] <dholbach> mdke: yes
[04:38] <mdke> dholbach, cool thanks
[04:57] <Kamion> can somebody please fix python2.4-qt3 to be installable?
[04:57] <Kamion> hmm, waiting for sip-qt3 promotion to main
[04:57] <Kamion> and qscintilla
[04:58] <jdub> whoa
[04:58] <jdub> brown is taking a beating on the fridge poll
[05:02] <infinity> I find the brown soothing.
[05:02] <daniels> i hated it in oxford, but in time, came to love the brown
[05:02] <bddebian> Mr. Hankey would be sad
[05:03] <ogra> guys VOTE for it !
[05:03] <bddebian> Heya ogra
[05:03] <daniels> maybe we could go sign a petition for ATI and NVIDIA to open source their drivers while we're at it :P
[05:03] <bddebian> ogra: You were right about gnome-launch-box btw, it needs an API update
[05:04] <bddebian> daniels: Now THAT is a plan :)
[05:04] <daniels> ...
[05:04] <ogra> bddebian, i'd throw it out until its usable ... its just rubbish, even if you fix the ftbfs
[05:05] <bddebian> ogra: They are unfixable afaict.  An update from svn wants gnome-vfs-2.0
[05:05] <ogra> ah
[05:06] <ogra> so either leave it unbuilt hanging around, or drop it completely... (seb128 will oppose it, i'm sure)
[05:06] <bddebian> :-)
[05:06] <bddebian> I tried to ping him this morning but he seemed deep in discussion
[05:06] <ogra> mail him :)
[05:07] <bddebian> Bah, then he'll just try to "recruit" me again. ;-P
[05:07] <ogra> heh
[05:09] <pitti> infinity: is language-pack-gnome-sa really given back and building?
[05:09] <infinity> pitti : Did it not make it?
[05:09] <pitti> infinity: Kamion gave it back this morning IIRC
[05:09] <infinity> pitti : Kamion gave back a whole mess of langpacks..
[05:09] <pitti> infinity: yes, there is a g-b build log, but there is no .deb
[05:09] <Mirv> pitti: eh, was something actually done for the firstdayofweek-problem? now that I got home, the clock applet's calendar shows the correct starting day (Monday) for my locale..?
[05:09] <fabbione> infinity: it's still uninstallable
[05:09] <infinity> Right, on it then.
[05:10] <Mirv> at some point yesterday, it was still wrong
[05:10] <pitti> Mirv: no, we didn't do anything
[05:10] <pitti> Mirv: but it is consistent, for me it starts at Sunday, althouhg it should be Monday
[05:10] <Mirv> pitti: it might have been between yesterday and today
[05:10] <pitti> Mirv: so it seems that the calendar is one off
[05:10] <seb128> bddebian: who?
[05:10] <Mirv> pitti: yeah but for me it was starting at Tuesday, although it should have been Monday.. the other way around
[05:11] <bddebian> seb128: Who what? :-)
[05:11] <pitti> Mirv: the Finnish locale is wrong, and the calendar starts one day early
[05:11] <Mirv> and now it's correct. okay, I won't state anything about this now, with luck it might stay this way for my locale :)
[05:11] <seb128> bddebian: <bddebian> I tried to ping him this morning but he seemed deep in discussion
[05:11] <bddebian> seb128: You
[05:11] <seb128> ?
[05:11] <seb128> I've not read what you said
[05:11] <seb128> said it again
[05:11] <Mirv> pitti: this whole thing is really fuzzy
[05:11] <pitti> Mirv: we won't fix it for Breezy, but please remind us for dappy
[05:12] <bddebian> seb128: gnome-launch-box won't build because of API change in gnome-menus.  And newer svn version wants gnome-xxx-2.0
[05:12] <seb128> Mirv, pitti: GTK 2.8.6 from yesterday changing the first day stuff
[05:12] <pitti> seb128: ah, IC
[05:12] <seb128> bddebian: what is xxx?
[05:12] <ogra> seb128, vfs
[05:12] <seb128> and the package doesn't ship that?
[05:12] <Kamion> pitti: I only gave back the packages that were out of date; I only just realised that that obviously didn't include new langpacks
[05:13] <seb128> pitti: I said this morning to try with the new GTK :)
[05:13] <infinity> pitti : Fixed.
[05:13] <Kamion> infinity: did you check for others in the same state?
[05:13] <pitti> infinity: thanks
[05:14] <infinity> Kamion : That's the only one listed as uninstallable by britney.
[05:14] <pitti> seb128: yes, sorry, still no (real) network here... :-(
[05:14] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, that's because language-pack-gnome-sa-base happened to build though
[05:14] <pitti> Kamion: yep, breezy_probs.html just lists that
[05:14] <Kamion> breezy_probs.html is not a sufficient check
[05:14] <seb128> pitti: no need to be sorry, just pointing it changed with new GTK
[05:14] <Mirv> seb128: ok, yes, I had the idea I already tried with gtk 2.8.6 yesterday, but probably didn't really restart until today.
[05:14] <seb128> Mirv: you need to restart an app to get changes
[05:15] <infinity> -lb
[05:15] <Kamion> language-pack-gnome-lb |   20050930 |        breezy | source
[05:15] <Kamion> language-pack-gnome-lb-base |   20050930 |        breezy | source
[05:15] <Kamion> language-pack-gnome-sa |   20050930 |        breezy | source
[05:15] <Kamion> right
[05:15] <seb128> bddebian: /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnome-vfs-2.0.pc ... you need this file? it's from libgnomevfs2-dev for ages
[05:16] <pitti> Kamion: -sa and -lb were NEW after Friday's upload, probably the buildds choked on that
[05:16] <Kamion> pitti: buildds do not typically have any problem with new packages
[05:16] <infinity> pitti : No, rothera just choked in general.
[05:16] <Kamion> pitti: wouldn't you expect many more problems if that were the case? :)
[05:16] <infinity> Kamion : Are you going to want the buildds idle for the next while in case you need to do emergency uploads?
[05:16] <pitti> Kamion: well, right :)
[05:16] <ogra> seb128, i really dont think gnome-lunchbox is worth the effort to put time into it before it didnt change even a bit...
[05:17] <infinity> Kamion : If not, I might want to do a mass give-back of everything in building to make sure we don't have any other such issues hanging around.
[05:17] <seb128> ogra: me neither
[05:17] <seb128> ogra: but bddebian wants to fix it, up to him
[05:17] <ogra> he just wants the bug count to get down :)
[05:17] <Kamion> infinity: I don't have time for emergency uploads any more
[05:18] <Kamion> infinity: go for it
[05:18] <ogra> bddebian, grab something usable rather...
[05:18] <infinity> Kamion : Alright, great.
[05:18] <jdub> <- *** THE POINT OF NO RETURN ***
[05:18] <infinity> pitti : lang-pack-lb{,base} fixed
[05:18] <ogra> jdub, ? lands end ?
[05:21] <daniels> jdub: remember to drink plenty of water before you go to bed.  vitamins help too.
[05:21] <bddebian> Sorry I was asleep
[05:21] <bddebian> :-)
[05:22] <bddebian> ogra / seb128: I'll play with it if I get time.
[05:22] <bddebian> There is a Malone bug to close after all ;-)
[05:22] <ogra> bureocrat !
[05:22] <bddebian> :-)
[05:23] <ogra> s/o/au/
[05:28] <Amaranth> seb128: if i were to provide a patch for 15636 would it be too late to get it in?
[05:29] <seb128> Amaranth: depending on the patch 
[05:36] <Amaranth> seb128: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=4365
[05:37] <seb128> Amaranth: seems to be a woraround no?
[05:37] <Amaranth> seb128: What else are you supposed to do when the file doesn't exist?
[05:38] <seb128> I've no context
[05:38] <seb128> it seems that you ignore error if no using debug by opening this patch
[05:38] <mvo> seb128, dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/lpi-accel-stuff.diff <- should fix it
[05:38] <seb128> what is "debug"?
[05:38] <seb128> mvo: rock
[05:39] <Amaranth> bug 15636 is pyxdg failing on missing merge files, this just makes it so that unless you have the debug variable set to True it ignores the error and keeps going
[05:39] <dholbach> mvo: will try
[05:39] <mvo> seb128: cheers
[05:39] <seb128> Amaranth: ignoring error seems to not be a good idea usually :)
[05:40] <Amaranth> seb128: It's what everyone else does.
[05:40] <Amaranth> If libgnome-menu doesn't die on a missing merge file then pyxdg can't either, otherwise it makes it look like pyxdg is broken.
[05:40] <seb128> the whole universe just ignore errors and let software break in a silent way, that's what you are saying?
[05:41] <seb128> or you just speak about the menu editors?
[05:41] <Amaranth> No, I'm saying gnome-menus and the kmenu thing don't fail on missing merge files.
[05:41] <seb128> k
[05:41] <Amaranth> They just ignore the error and keep parsing the menu.
[05:42] <seb128> will consider the patch after RC
[05:42] <mvo> Kamion: are uploads ok currently (assuming they will just go into the queue and sit there until it's unfrozen)? or should we wait with them until after the preview? 
[05:42] <mdke> hno73, ping?
[05:43] <Kamion> mvo: wait
[05:44] <mvo> Kamion: ok, will do. thanks
[05:44] <Kamion> I'm off now, hopefully mdz will turn up soon to release/stage-manage ;)
[05:44] <jbailey> jblack seems to have two blocker severity bugs in bugzilla.  One against X, and one because the torrents aren't working. =)
[05:45] <daniels> jbailey: bug# for X?
[05:45] <jbailey> daniels: 9067
[05:45] <fabbione> Kamion: have fun
[05:45] <daniels> oh jesus, that's a duplicate of something else
[05:50] <bddebian> infinity or lamont: If libofx ubuntu1 version comes through, can you please clear the dep-wait for libosp-dev?
[05:51] <bddebian> infinity or lamont: Same for libaqbanking ubuntu1 and glade
[05:53] <j^> did an update from a ubuntu/warty(from cd without updates) to breezy, x did not work after the upgrade, had to start in single usermode and run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[05:53] <zyga> jordi, sto: ping
[05:54] <infinity> bddebian : Are you sure it builds with the older versions?
[05:54] <infinity> bddebian : And runs?
[05:56] <daniels> j^: that's entirely possible; we only support warty->hoary->breezy
[05:58] <bddebian> infinity: Which one?
[05:59] <bddebian> infinity: libofx yes
[05:59] <bddebian> infinity: libaqbanking isn't an older version, just a different packagename
[05:59] <lamont__> bddebian: if waiting for something else to arrive is part of the equation, please poke me after it comes through... no long-term memory cells available.
[06:01] <bddebian> lamont__: Well I have already gotten the ACCEPTS back but they aren't showing up on people.u.c/~lamont yet :-)
[06:03] <lamont__> bddebian: ok...  but I tend to only look when asked, not 20-50 minutes later...
[06:05] <bddebian> ??
[06:05] <bddebian> I'm not sure when it actually hits vs. when it shows up on your pages :)
[06:07] <mdz> Kamion: morning
[06:15] <fabbione> mdz: i think he took off already
[06:16] <daniels> 16:44 < Kamion> I'm off now, hopefully mdz will turn up soon to release/stage-manage ;)
[06:16] <infinity> bddebian : I already fixed it anyway.
[06:16] <bddebian> infinity: Fixed what?
[06:16] <infinity> bddebian : Your dep-wait issues.
[06:16] <bddebian> Ohh, thx
[06:16] <infinity> bddebian : ie: don't bother bugging lamont.
[06:17] <bddebian> But it's fun ;-)
[06:17] <mdz> yeah, thought I might catch him since he was just leaving
[06:18] <mdz> Kamion said he hasn't tested the current builds yet; have any of you?
[06:18] <fabbione> mdz: there are no builds yet afaik
[06:18] <fabbione> the archive has been fixed with new d-i & co
[06:18] <mdz> Kamion mailed me before he left and said that they are done
[06:19] <fabbione> ok
[06:19] <fabbione> than we need to test them
[06:19] <mdz> I'm downloading now
[06:19] <fabbione> me too
[06:19] <jbailey> Do we just redo the rsync of the current daily?
[06:19] <infinity> jbailey : Should do, looks like they're fresh, as of 45 mins ago or so.
[06:20] <infinity> I, however, am about 2.5 hours past my bedtime.
[06:20] <jbailey> Tx
[06:20] <jbailey> Good sleeps, Adam
[06:20] <infinity> I did my duty to make sure everything that went into the builds was as okay as possible.  I'll test tomorrow. :)
[06:20] <mvo> infinity: good night
[06:21] <mdz> jbailey: yes
[06:21] <fabbione> infinity: g'night
[06:21] <bddebian> infinity: Gnight, thx
[06:34] <mdz> doko: as documented on the page, UbuntuMainInclusionQueue is only for source packages, not binary packages
[06:34] <doko> mdz: yes, I did read that, _after_ adding libdbXX, and then skipping lib64bz2 ...
[06:37] <mdz> doko: doesn't your PROMPT_COMMAND change disable setting the terminal title bar?
[06:39] <doko> mdz: no, it's set in the user's .bashrc by default
[06:39] <hno73> mdz: I see that the latest live builds are still over-sized. Are you using this Win-tarball: http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/ubuntu/current/ ?
[06:40] <mdz> doko: ok
[06:42] <mdz> hno73: no, it appears to be using http://maitri.ubuntu.com/theopencd/ubuntu/winfoss/latest/Hoary-WinFOSS.tgz and similar
[06:42] <hno73> mdz: ok, so changing that link should help
[06:43] <hno73> but only by about 6MB :(
[06:44] <mdz> hno73: we have things we can lose
[06:44] <mdz> it isn't a showstopper for RC, only for final
[06:44] <hno73> ok, cool
[06:44] <hno73> right
[06:45] <Riddell> hno73: are you going to make an updated kubuntu winfoss image today?
[06:45] <Riddell> or in time for the RC
[06:45] <hno73> Riddell: yeah, doing it now
[06:46] <Riddell> hno73: awooga
[06:46] <fabbione> mdz: i386 netinstall is go on 2 machines here
[06:50] <fabbione> crap.. CD bad burn
[06:50] <mdz> taking forever to download here
[06:51] <fabbione> taking forever to burn :(
[06:51] <fabbione> for once that i am faster in downloading :)
[06:52] <TMM> hi all
[06:53] <fabbione> mdz: btw i have a kernel upload for after RC.. security fix + sparc only specific changes
[06:53] <TMM> breezy has been working out pretty well :) good job people! :) thank you
[06:53] <fabbione> mdz: Kamion said to wait after RC.. and talk with you
[06:53] <TMM> much better than hoary :)
[06:53] <fabbione> mdz: the source is ready and tested FYI
[06:54] <TMM> still no suspend though :( I'm going to pester the people at acpi-devel :) I'll try and get patches for breezy in time for the compaq stuff, not sure if I'll get it in time though, it's like 5 days before breezy releases, right?
[06:54] <fabbione> TMM: breezy is super frozen
[06:54] <TMM> o well, dapper then
[06:54] <fabbione> we are preparing a Release Candidate now
[06:54] <TMM> :)
[06:55] <mdz> fabbione: definitely wait until after RC
[06:55] <TMM> well then, it'll probably be a wiki page then :)
[06:55] <fabbione> mdz: yes sure.. that was what we agreed with Kamion.. but i still had to talk with you on Kamion request
[07:02] <jbailey> Depends what part of nfs.
[07:02] <bddebian> lamont: Am I on crack?  Looking at libchipcard2-dev shows built but libaqbanking is showing a dep-wait for it??
[07:14] <jbailey> Hmm, pegasos box doens't like the usb keyboard
[07:14] <j^> daniels ups it was hoary->breezy
[07:16] <fabbione> mdz: i386 live cd is go
[07:17] <fabbione> (2 machines)
[07:19] <TMM> can I do anything?
[07:19] <mvo> mdz: i386-german cd-install is fine here
[07:19] <segfault> can anyone confirm that gnome-btdownload is included in the default install?
[07:20] <crimsun> segfault: yes.
[07:20] <crimsun> segfault: check for yourself: apt-cache rdepends gnome-btdownload
[07:22] <mvo> segfault: yep
[07:22] <segfault> humm, i see.
[07:22] <segfault> so it should be translatable, i guess
[07:22] <segfault> however i can't find it in Rosetta, can anyone manage it?
[07:23] <zyga> segfault: check #launchpad
[07:26] <zyga> dholbach: ping
[07:26] <dholbach> zyga: pong
[07:27] <zyga> dholbach: gnome-btdownload is totally i18n ignorant, will you accept a patch that fixes this *today*?
[07:28] <dholbach> zyga: that's not something, i can decide - mdz, when would be the proper timing for a get-i18n-for-gnome-btdownload patch?
[07:28] <zyga> dholbach: okay I'm still learing my way around here - you are the maintainer of that package, that's all
[07:28] <dholbach> zyga: since when?
[07:28] <zyga> hmm
[07:29] <zyga> gpg: skipped "Daniel Holbach <dh@mailempfang.de>": secret key not available
[07:29] <dholbach> zyga: i was never maintainer of that package - i did a TINY change some days ago
[07:29] <zyga> dholbach: that cought my eyes :)
[07:29] <dholbach> zyga: apt-cache show gnome-btdownload | grep Maintainer
[07:29] <zyga> dholbach: I see now :)
[07:30] <dholbach> zyga: but if we can translate it soon, that's GOOD STUFF, so it's be nice, if we had that patch in bugzilla for example
[07:30] <zyga> dholbach: anyway - that's about 1K lines, triviall to i18nize
[07:30] <zyga> dholbach: okay - I'll patch - mdz decides
[07:30] <dholbach> zyga: super
[07:31] <mvo> zyga: please CC me too
[07:31] <zyga> dholbach, mvo: err 
[07:32] <zyga> it's fixed in 0.0.22 
[07:32] <zyga> we've got 0.0.18
[07:32] <zyga> if this doesn't make it into breezy I see no point in fixing it
[07:32] <dholbach> zyga: that will have to wait until dapper
[07:32] <zyga> dholbach: k, nothing to do then
[07:32] <dholbach> zyga: sorry, for that :/
[07:33] <zyga> (unless someone says 'zyga: fix it, we'll put it into breezy'
[07:33] <zyga> dholbach: that's okay :)
[07:34] <sladen> jbailey: unresume should probably check the modifcation dates on the filesystems before allowing a resume
[07:37] <jbailey> sladen: I don't know how you'd reliably get that from all filesystems
[07:38] <sladen> jbailey: only really ext2/3
[07:39] <crimsun> sladen: hmm, how about before allowing a hibernate?
[07:39] <crimsun> for instance, whenever a new kernel is installed and I hibernate, it's as good as useless
[07:40] <crimsun> (understandably useless, but it'd be nice to alert the user nonetheless)
[07:40] <mdz> dholbach: maybe after RC
[07:41] <dholbach> mdz: it seems that upstream introduces i18n in 0.22 (we have 0.18), i'd rather defer it for dapper
[07:41] <mdz> dholbach: fine
[07:42] <bddebian> lamont__: ping?
[07:43] <sladen> crimsun: that's a /different/ issue.  But one that if you can find a solution to would be great (eg.  /how/ do you work out which kernels the use is likely to try and use to resume;  the only feasible method is probably to restuff the grub-menu so that the hibernate from the swap partition is only allowed with that particular kernel that is currently running)
[07:43] <crimsun> sladen: I see.
[07:45] <sladen> crimsun: or just take the sledge-hammer approach and disable it if /vmlinuz doesn't point to $(uname -r)
[07:46] <sladen> and if the user really knows what they're doing, they can call 'pmi' themselves
[07:50] <bddebian> Why didn't we update gnome-pkg-tools?
[07:53] <hunger> Who changed the network config script to wait for a timeout?!
[07:54] <fabbione> hunger: all the people that needs that in order to boot
[07:54] <hunger> That is really annoying with laptops... Could someone maybe add a ethtool check for the link before waiting for dhcp?
[07:55] <fabbione> hunger: nope.. the link check is not reliable
[07:55] <lucas> hunger: edit /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf, change timeout
[07:55] <hunger> I used to have one... but you guys keep overwriting it:-)
[07:55] <fabbione> and it is annoying in the same way for people that can't boot
[07:55] <fabbione> hunger: you need wait.. they can't do anything
[07:55] <fabbione> between the two.. you wait :
[07:55] <fabbione> P
[07:55] <hunger> lucas: Nah, I need the long timeout when my laptop is connected:-(
[07:55] <lucas> 60 seconds?!
[07:56] <fabbione> lucas: it's a perfectly reasonable timeout
[07:56] <lucas> hunger: do we know each other ? are you in my lab ? ;)
[07:56] <hunger> lucas: WLAN sucks in hotels!
[07:56] <lucas> ah
[07:56] <fabbione> anyway--
[07:56] <hunger> lucas: I doubt that... im not in a uni.
[07:57] <hunger> fabbione: I do understand your argument ... but I still do not like it.
[07:58] <hunger> fabbione: I guess it is too late to send in a ethtool test patch (disabled by default, can be enabled in /etc/default/something)?
[08:01] <hunger> fabbione: And I was allready happy that *everything* works just the way I want it in breezy;-)
[08:01] <doko> mdz: openoffice.org2-java-common is missing from the amd64 CD's due to a missing dependency. Adding that dependency will add about 7-8MB
[08:02] <mdz> doko: I thought you mentioned and fixed that yesterday
[08:02] <mdz> doko: what does it break?
[08:02] <mdz> and does it involve a full oo.o2 build?
[08:02] <siretart> is there any reason why xfonts-*-transcoded is missing in breezy? is this on purpose or a bug?
[08:02] <doko> -base, -writer wizards and other wizards. no new build, just updating the amd64 control file
[08:04] <doko> mdz: yes, but I got no reply from you or Colin what to do (i.e. still removing stuff from the CD's)
[08:05] <fab64live> yo
[08:05] <fab64live> mdz: amd64live is good to go
[08:05] <fab64live> daniels, ping?=
[08:06] <doko> fab64live: could you just test, what happens starting OOo-writer and starting one of the wizards?
[08:06] <fab64live> doko: sure
[08:07] <jbailey> ppc install appears to still not like pegasos even with the update bios.  Ah well, was worth a shot.
[08:07] <jbailey> (i386 install still running)
[08:08] <fab64live> doko: write starts fine..
[08:08] <fab64live> testing the wizard now
[08:09] <fab64live> doko: what wizard should i run? or better.. from where?
[08:09] <fab64live> oh never mind
[08:10] <siretart> which is ridiculus. I have working java.. hrmpf..
[08:10] <fab64live> doko: it seems to work fine
[08:10] <doko> fab64live, File/Wizuards/Letter
[08:11] <fab64live> hmm ok
[08:11] <fab64live> i did use the fax
[08:11] <doko> that's ok.
[08:12] <siretart> hm. why does OOo2 hate me?
[08:12] <fab64live> doko: they work fine afaict
[08:12] <doko> mdz: so we don't need -java-common on the live CD, but it would be better to have it on the install CD
[08:13] <doko> siretart: which platform, new install?, live cd?
[08:14] <ogra> does he own ppc ? 
[08:14] <siretart> doko: this is a amd64 desktop install
[08:14] <siretart> breezy, just updated and freshly rebooted
[08:15] <doko> siretart: please install openoffice.org2-java-common as well, then try again
[08:16] <siretart> just a sec
[08:17] <bddebian> lamont: ping again? (Sorry)
[08:18] <siretart> heureka
[08:18] <doko> I'm back in about 2 hours ...
[08:18] <siretart> doko: with openoffice.org2-java-common, the wizards work!
[08:18] <siretart> bye doko 
[08:19] <mdz> doko: if it's only oo.o2-amd64, please get it uploaded immediately
[08:20] <bddebian> Anyone know how I can easily set PKG_CONFIG_PATH prior to ./autogen.sh?
[08:22] <fabbione> bddebian: PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/foo/bar ./autogen.sh
[08:23] <bddebian> fabbione: I tried that. Hmm
[08:23] <fabbione> bddebian: export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/foo/bar
[08:23] <fabbione> ./autogen
[08:30] <mdz> fabbione: amd64/live OK here too
[08:30] <fabbione> mdz: cool
[08:30] <jbailey> Eh, i386 install (fr_CA) works, suspend works, hibernation does nothing and seems to have set default keybaord to french despite me choosing US in the installer.
[08:33] <hunger> Anyone besides me noticing /usr/bin/tput not found messages on shutdown?
[08:33] <fabbione> hunger: nope.. 
[08:33] <jbailey> Mm, it suspends if I do it by hand, just not from the gnome logoff menu.
[08:36] <jbailey> mdz: Any special way you want bugs files from these installs?
[08:36] <mdz> jbailey: no
[08:36] <hunger> fabbione: You should:-) /lib/lsb/init-functions calls TPUT in log_end_msg without checking whether that is available.
[08:36] <mdz> jbailey: were all of the translations there for fr_CA?  that's one of the things Kamion mentioned needed to be verified after the apt update
[08:37] <fabbione> hunger: i still don't see it
[08:37] <jbailey> mdz: I didn't notice any English go by.
[08:37] <mdz> jbailey: especially the progress messages in stage 2
[08:37] <jbailey> mdz: I'll watch for that on my next install.
[08:37] <hunger> fabbione: I get 3 in a row just before the box reboots.
[08:38] <fabbione> hunger: is your /usr on a separate partition?
[08:38] <hunger> fabbione: Yeap.
[08:38] <fabbione> that could be the reason
[08:38] <fabbione>  /usr gets umounted
[08:38] <fabbione> tput isn't there anymore
[08:39] <hunger> fabbione: Sure. But the scripts should detect that and behave accordingly. all the other log_* functions do.
[08:40] <hunger> fabbione: Mind if I write up a patch for that and mail it to you (or someone else)?
[08:40] <fabbione> hunger: i am pretty sure this was fixed a long time ago
[08:40] <fabbione> i wonder if the fix was lost somewhere
[08:41] <fabbione> anyway it's nothing critical
[08:41] <hunger> fabbione: I agree. But it is easily fixed.
[08:42] <fabbione> hunger: yes.. after RC probably
[08:44] <fabbione> mdz: did we also build DVD?
[08:44] <fabbione> (for RC i mean)
[08:45] <segfault> are the langpacks really removed from live cds?
[08:45] <mdz> fabbione: I didn't, but Kamion may have. check the timestamps.
[08:46] <mdz> segfault: there are very few langpacks available on the live CD due to space constraints
[08:46] <fabbione> mdz: no.. no new DVD.. would it be possible to build it?
[08:46] <fabbione> i can test it on amd64/i386
[08:46] <mdz> fabbione: yep, but let's wait for doko's new oo.o2-amd64
[08:46] <segfault> mdz: pt_BR is part of them?
[08:46] <mdz> doko: ETA?
[08:47] <fabbione> mdz: doko I'm back in about 2 hours ...
[08:47] <fabbione> that was 30 minutes ago
[08:47] <mdz> ok, then I guess RC goes out without that java fix
[08:48] <fabbione> hmm acutally i have only dvd-i386 locally..
[08:50] <fabbione> mdz: what was the system to speed up dvd rsync? cat live > dest && cat install >> dest and rsync?
[08:50] <fabbione> or viceversa?
[08:52] <seb128> mdz: is there any know bug about network not beeing set on boot (ie: I need to run dhclient to get a DHCP IP). That's not a new bug but a regression from hoary
[08:53] <mdz> seb128: there is one bug open, eys
[08:53] <mdz> yes
[08:53] <mdz> seb128: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17015
[08:54] <seb128> mdz: somebody working on it?
[08:54] <seb128> thanks
[08:54] <bddebian> seb128: Would you mind looking at this:? http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/2801
[08:55] <dholbach> bddebian: you may want to read config.log
[08:56] <seb128> bddebian: one of the dep mentionned is not installed
[08:56] <dholbach> bddebian: what are the build-depends you have?
[08:56] <bddebian> dholbach: I have.  It cant find gnome-desktop.pc
[08:57] <seb128> bddebian: install libgnome-desktop-dev
[08:57] <bddebian> dholbach: I haven't gotten that far, I'm trying to run autogen from the svn source
[08:57] <bddebian> seb128: I have it
[08:58] <seb128> bddebian: "pkg-config --cflags gnome-desktop-2.0", does that work?
[08:59] <bddebian> Gawd I am stnoed
[08:59] <bddebian> Err stoned even
[08:59] <seb128> ?
[08:59] <bddebian> I didn't have libgnome-desktop-dev installed
[09:01] <seb128> ah
[09:02] <dholbach> amd64 gives me the option to "delete the whole drive /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target1/lun0/cd -"    -    and by starting the installation it hung a while over finding the disk... might be broken harddisk    -    will try different one next
[09:06] <zyga> is there any # devoted to bazaar?
[09:08] <mvo-live> amd64-live works here, I'm asked for the screen resolution of my lcd, but this is known, isn't it?
[09:09] <bddebian> Damnit, why is even the code from svn using Menutree *tree when it should be GMenutree *tree ??
[09:09] <dholbach> mvo-live: was the same for mine too
[09:10] <seb128> 'night mvo-live 
[09:10] <dholbach> mvo-live: hope you're well soon
[09:10] <mvo-live> thank you guys
[09:10] <seb128> mvo-live, dholbach: yeah, that's known, amd64 a no xresprobe
[09:10] <seb128> s/a/has/
[09:16] <zyga> bazaar is not available for hoary... whaaat? :/
[09:23] <dholbach> zyga: it was in hoary
[09:24] <jbailey> mdz: Did another i386 install, server mode this time.  The only english string I saw was in stage one when I dropped out of expert mode to look at the menu.  "Configure a multiseat system"
[09:28] <mdz> jbailey: s/out of/out to/ ?
[09:28] <mdz> jbailey: good news, thanks
[09:28] <jbailey> Right. =)
[09:29] <mdz> amd64/live OK, amd64/install in stage2, powerpc/live OK, powerpc/install in stage1
[09:30] <fabbione> mdz: install i386 from cd now
[09:31] <lamont__> zyga: pool/main/b/bazaar/bazaar_1.2-2_i386.deb is the hoary version
[09:36] <lamont__> Kamion: ping
[09:37] <jbailey> amd64/live OK in fr_CA.  Funny, the gnome is 3/4 in French with little bits in English.  So it's like it got *most* of a language pack.  The modules step at startup was long enough for usplash to drop out, and (as expected) same keyboard problem with X.
[09:41] <lamont__> mdz: are you in a position to turn the crank on ia64 isos?
[09:41] <mdz> i386/live OK, amd64/install OK, powerpc/install in stage2
[09:41] <mdz> lamont__: busy
[09:41] <mdz> after RC
[09:42] <lamont__> ok
[09:42] <mdz> wtf, when did resolvconf enter desktop??
[09:42] <mdz> or at least the i386 live CD
[09:42] <fabbione> i386/install stage2 now
[09:42] <mdz> never mind, user error
[09:43] <mdz> too many boots going at once :-)
[09:43] <fabbione> mdz: sparc/netinstall stage1 is good to go :) (given new kernel)
[09:44] <jbailey> mdz: Yeah, you clearly have better burners that I do.  =)
[09:46] <bddebian> Damn: menu_tree_directory_get_entries (dir);  This func doesn't even exist in the newer gnome-menus stuff.
[09:49] <jordi> Kamion, mdz: ping.
[09:49] <mdz> jbailey: 17907 should be straightforward for you to fix and test; daniels won't be back for many hours
[09:49] <TMM> hi
[09:49] <mdz> jbailey: there's just a big case statement in xserver-xorg.config
[09:49] <mdz> jordi: speak, my friend
[09:49] <jordi> mdz: hello dude. BOSTON AWAITS.
[09:49] <TMM> is pressing my touchscreen's on/off button supposed to try to hibernate my computer?
[09:50] <TMM> it's pretty damn annoying
[09:50] <jordi> mdz: so, jbailey missed RC for a quite important glibc update (on the i18n/locales pov).
[09:50] <bddebian> Oh yeah, the GNOME thing.  Tell them to fix gnome-launch-box ;-)
[09:50] <jordi> How are my chances of seeing that update in the final cd?
[09:50] <TMM> I think it only does that since acpi-support 0.43
[09:50] <mdz> jordi: slim
[09:50] <jordi> no no no no
[09:50] <TMM> I'd consider that a bug....
[09:50] <jordi> it's only locale data updates
[09:50] <jordi> nooo
[09:50] <jbailey> mdz: Colin said this morning that he didn't mind a locale update
[09:51] <mdz> jbailey: thanks, but I'm not speaking on Colin's behalf
[09:51] <TMM> do you think I should file a bug?
[09:52] <mdz> jbailey,jordi: mail me the debdiff if you want a concrete answer
[09:52] <fabbione> mdz: 17907 ?
[09:52] <jordi> jbailey: go go :)
[09:52] <jbailey> fabbione: 17097
[09:52] <mdz> dholbach: please change your bugzilla email to an ubuntu.com one
[09:52] <jordi> what's in 17097?
[09:53] <dholbach> mdz: will do
[09:53] <jbailey> jordi: Keyboard layout bug that I reported.
[09:53] <mdz> fabbione: er, yes, 17097
[09:53] <jordi> ok
[09:53] <fabbione> eheh
[09:53] <fabbione> ok
[09:53] <Mirv> jordi: please don't break anything with the locale data update that gtk 2.8.6 fixed
[09:53] <fabbione> mdz: <davem> stage1 complete
[09:54] <fabbione> ^^^sparc :)
[09:54] <jordi> what did gtk fix in locale data? How can that happen?
[09:54] <mdz> jordi: and why is this update arriving so late?
[09:54] <jordi> glibc upload was held by gtk
[09:54] <jordi> I think, jbailey has more details
[09:55] <Mirv> jordi: well, I heard the start of the week problems were caused by glibc-gtk-miscommunication of sorts, and gtk update fixed gnome clock applet's calendar view at least for fi_FI.UTF-8
[09:55] <jbailey> Mirv: Right.  bug in gtk-calendar.c
[09:55] <jordi> Mirv: ok. Locale changes might do it better, in any case.
[09:56] <mdz> jordi: given all the problems we've had recently with this, it's clear that it takes some time to test these changes
[09:56] <mdz> jordi: that's why I'm disinclined to change it at the last minute
[09:56] <jordi> Mirv: I'm guessing gtk-calendar assumed locale data had weekday/workday infromation, but most don't.
[09:56] <TMM> ah, the bug is already entered somewhere
[09:56] <jbailey> jordi, Mirv: No, it simply couldn't count.
[09:56] <jordi> Mirv: and someone implemented a fallback. Dunno.
[09:56] <jordi> jbailey: great
[09:57] <TMM> on another model, and since yesterday also :)
[09:57] <jbailey> jordi: There's quirks as to whether ther week starts on a Sunday or a monday.
[09:57] <jbailey> You have to set the root as either 19971130 or 19971201
[09:57] <jbailey> That day becomes "1"
[09:57] <jordi> mdz: I'm not in the distro team; I just try to get in Ubuntu what some Rosetta users have been asking for
[09:57] <Mirv> jordi: don't know, but if the start of the week values are now again changed for in glibc for those locales that got fixed by the gtk update, it might get again broken for some locales (and maybe fixed for some others?) but dunno, one just would have to have most locales tested
[09:57] <jordi> i mean, I have little knowledge of how release stuff works in ubuntu
[09:58] <jbailey> It woudl occasionally use the 1201 date instead, in which case a first_weekday of 2 would be Tuesday.
[09:58] <jbailey> But it had a bug that when you set it back to 1, it would use 19971130 instead and be Sunday.
[09:58] <mdz> jordi: we release Ubuntu every 6 months, according to a predetermined schedule :-)
[09:58] <mdz> jordi: the current one is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[09:58] <jordi> read "how release stuff works in the last days before a release" :)
[09:58] <jordi> I know about the 6 months thingy :)
[09:58] <mdz> jordi: in the last days before release, we STOP MAKING CHANGES :-)
[09:59] <seb128> jordi: what is the question ?
[09:59] <jordi> seb128: locale updates. :)
[09:59] <fabbione> mdz: sparc/stage2 fails as expected since the buildd is lagging.. all stage1 + reboot is good to go
[09:59] <mdz> seb128: he doesn't understand why we might not want to upload a new glibc
[09:59] <jordi> mdz: chicken!!!!
[09:59] <seb128> ah ah
[09:59] <jbailey> jordi: mdz only sleeps 2 hours a night as it is. =)
[10:00] <seb128> jordi: you should come some weeks before
[10:00] <jordi> seb128: I couldn't.
[10:00] <seb128> so don't complain now :)
[10:00] <seb128> you suck :)
[10:00] <jordi> I mean, I don't remember when the request was done, but I dont' have upload rights to ubuntu
[10:01] <jordi> And AIUI, jeff's upload was blocked by other things, but that's beyond me
[10:01] <jbailey> Right.  Uploading locales changes with gtk acting weird and us not being sure whose fault it was didn't make sense.
[10:02] <jbailey> Whups, 4pm.  Chiropractor appointment
[10:02] <bddebian> So who's the GNOME master? :-)
[10:02] <seb128> jordi: hey, but that would required a calm discussion on what to do and what locales to fix, not an hurry update the day before candidate
[10:02] <seb128> bddebian: jordi 
[10:02] <bddebian> jordi knows GNOME? :-)
[10:04] <bddebian> jordi: You know much/anything about gnome-menus?
[10:07] <jordi> bddebian: it's a 
[10:07] <jordi> GTK BUG
[10:07] <jordi> seb128 has the details
[10:07] <jordi> (I'm having dinner)
[10:10] <bddebian> jordi: No I am looking at gnome-launch-box
[10:10] <bddebian> jordi: But enjoy your dinner
[10:10] <seb128> mdz: i386/install went fine, 100% french translated, apt bug from this morning fixed
[10:13] <fabbione> mdz: i386/install (CD) is go here...
[10:13] <fabbione> mdz: i need to get some sleep. if you can build the DVD, i will test them tomorrow morning
[10:13] <fabbione> mdz: (in 6/7 hours from now)
[10:15] <fabbione> mdz: also http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/changelog <-
[10:15] <fabbione> mdz: let me know if and when i can upload that
[10:15] <fabbione> (just drop me a /msg)
[10:16] <mdz> i386/install and powerpc/install successful
[10:16] <mdz> 6/6 here
[10:16] <mdz> seb128: great, thanks
[10:16] <seb128> np
[10:17] <mdz> so the only known issue is doko's oo.o2 bug
[10:18] <seb128> mdz: I've some GNOME known issues to fix after candidate
[10:18] <mdz> seb128: are they in bugzilla?
[10:18] <seb128> mdz: yeah
[10:19] <doko> mdz: currently fixing
[10:20] <fabbione> good night guys
[10:20] <mdz> doko: I don't think we'll roll a new RC for it, but get it uploaded so that we have it for the next daily
[10:20] <mdz> fabbione: night
[10:20] <seb128> mdz: 1 sj crasher, 2 librsvg bugs and a small fix for gnome-panel categories code
[10:21] <doko> mdz: agreed
[10:23] <mdz> seb128: 15742 has milestone 5.10; is that realistic?
[10:24] <seb128> mdz: these was quite my personnal list to not forget bug which is easy to do with the ~700 bugs
[10:24] <mdz> seb128: is 17066 the sj bug?
[10:24] <seb128> mdz: this one should be dropped right
[10:24] <seb128> a sec, I'll point the bug
[10:24] <seb128> right
[10:25] <seb128> #16692 and #16930 are the librsvg bugs
[10:26] <dholbach> amd64 install was nice (even the windows partition resizing worked fine)
[10:26] <seb128> one is a parsing issue with locale with "," as DP, upstream have fixed is with a setlocale call
[10:26] <seb128> the other is a crasher on some icon with gradients
[10:28] <bddebian> Grrr I'm getting no bugs fixed today damnit
[10:28] <seb128> jbailey: you are working on the "about ubuntu" entry not working atm?
[10:29] <jbailey> seb128: Yes.
[10:29] <seb128> k
[10:29] <mdz> jbailey: you seem to have a lot of bugs with milestone 5.10 which haven't been touched in a while; please make a pass over them
[10:30] <jbailey> mdz: i386 live cd (english) okay
[10:35] <jbailey> Ooo, pretty.  I hadn't seen the kubuntu splash before.
[10:38] <mdz> jbailey: 14456?
[10:39] <jbailey> There was a late kernel update where the feature was added.  It's one define.  It can either go in or not.  I don't know enough to say one way or the other.
[10:39] <jbailey> When I originally told the submitter no, it wasn't in the kernel yet.
[10:39] <jbailey> amd64-kubuntu-live ok
[10:40] <whiprush> wasabi_: ping
[10:42] <jordi> seb128: how much time do we have for translation updates from now to the release?
[10:42] <jordi> fuck
[10:42] <jbailey> jordi: Zero..
[10:42] <jordi> s/seb128/*/
[10:42] <jordi> what do you mean? Translations are closed?
[10:43] <jbailey> Mmm, I guess LangpackTranslationDeadline is tomorrow by the schedule.
[10:43] <Nafallo> mdz: we have moin and python2.4-moinmoin in main. moin shouldn't be there, right? :-)
[10:47] <bddebian> jordi: Back from dinner? :-)
[10:48] <jordi> yes
[10:49] <bddebian> jordi: You know anything about menu-tree.h vs. gmenu-tree.h?
[10:50] <\sh> bddebian: u have to rewrite the app to let it use gmenu-tree.h
[10:50] <bddebian> \sh: I know but it currently is using functions not in gmenu-tree.h
[10:50] <bddebian> gmenu_tree_directory_get_entries (dir);
[10:50] <jordi> bddebian: not at all
[10:50] <bddebian> jordi: OK, thx
[10:51] <zyga> cool
[10:51] <jordi> zyga: I'll have a look at this in a minute
[10:51] <jordi> when I get back to X
[10:51] <zyga> jordi: okay :)
[10:51] <bddebian> Is there a gnome -dev channel anywhere here?
[10:51] <jordi> zyga: we really need bug reports on those with test files
[10:51] <dholbach> bddebian: might be  gmenu_tree_directory_get_contents() today *shrug*
[10:51] <jordi> bddebian: #gnome-hackers @ GIMPNet
[10:52] <bddebian> jordi: Ah, thx
[10:52] <zyga> jordi: I'm not sure if it _will_ bork rosetta, I'm sure it might though :)
[10:52] <bddebian> dholbach: I thought so too but I have a menu_tree_directory_get_subdirs (dir); too which I can't quite parse :-)
[10:53] <dholbach> ouch
[10:53] <jordi> zyga: heh
[10:53] <mdz> Nafallo: it's superseded by python-moinmoin, I think
[10:54] <mdz> though that is a silly name since it is more than just a python module
[10:54] <wasabi_> whiprush, pong
[10:55] <wasabi_> jbailey, questions about initrd design. I need vfat in the initrd... wondering what hte appropiate long term strat for that is.
[10:55] <jbailey> wasabi_: Err.
[10:55] <wasabi_> To put it all in one initrd hooks package for loopback stuff, or make seperate packages for each piece.
[10:55] <Nafallo> yea, looks like it. we might want moin for compability? they've changed alot in moin1.3 is seems.
[10:55] <bddebian> Kamion: Around yet? :-)
[10:55] <jbailey> wasabi_: You can add it to /etc/mkinitramfs/modules
[10:55] <jbailey> wasabi_: Then klibc's fstype needs to be taught how to detect a vfat filesystem.
[10:56] <wasabi_> Oh yes, but I'm thinking about long term... packaging, etc.
[10:56] <jbailey> wasabi_: Is this really a common enough use case to generally have it in there?
[10:56] <wasabi_> No.
[10:56] <whiprush> wasabi_: I understand you did some of the free java stuff for breezy. Can you explain to me the general state of java for breezy in a few sentences? (for the fridge)
[10:56] <wasabi_> But the idea of building generic flash bootable devices is. I'm wondeirng if I should package it in something like flash-initrd-tools
[10:57] <wasabi_> which pulls in vfat and loop and stuff
[10:57] <jbailey> Ah, I see.  Yeah, that would work.
[10:57] <wasabi_> whiprush, gij is our prefered VM. Available and works at the moment.
[10:57] <wasabi_> Not too good with Swing, but that's okay.
[10:57] <jbailey> wasabi_: It runs jedit, IIRC
[10:57] <wasabi_> Eclipse is in Universe, doko recently synched to Debian's packages.
[10:58] <wasabi_> Eclipse is missing it's help system because we are waiting for tomcat5.
[10:58] <wasabi_> We're pretty much inline with Debian.
[10:58] <jbailey> wasabi_: I've done the start of a HACKING file for initramfs-tools
[10:58] <wasabi_> All the important stuff I got done there.
[10:58] <whiprush> wasabi_: k, thanks.
[10:59] <doko> jbailey: only with retroweaver
[10:59] <jbailey> doko: What's that?
[11:00] <doko> runs 1.5 features on a 1.4 runtime
[11:00] <wasabi_> jbailey, modprobing "loop" in the initrd doesn't create /dev/loop*
[11:00] <wasabi_> is that normal?
[11:01] <jbailey> wasabi_: yes.  There's no udevd running at that point.
[11:01] <jbailey> wasabi_: It really wants to get run before udevstart runs.
[11:01] <wasabi_> Ahh so I need to mkae the devs by hand
[11:01] <jbailey> wasabi_: Scott was chatting with Kay Sievers from the linux hotplug list and they've got some clever magic tht will let us safely run udevd in the initramfs.
[11:02] <jbailey> But I think that requires 2.6.15 =)
[11:02] <wasabi_> Interesting.
[11:02] <jbailey> doko: Ah, cool. =)
[11:02] <ogra_> mdz, ping
[11:03] <mdz> ogra_: yes?
[11:03] <wasabi_> wow i have to learn mknod
[11:03] <ogra_> mdz, why did you remove the milestone from 7150 ? 
[11:03] <wasabi_> never had to do that before
[11:03] <jbailey> wasabi_: Nah.  Just use the force_load hook script.
[11:03] <jbailey> wasabi_: It'll cause it to get loaded in the iniital pass unconditionally.
[11:03] <ogra_> mdz, i was planning another small hack session on xscreensaver to fix the majors... 7150  was on my list
[11:03] <wasabi_> Sure but it won't create the nodes?
[11:04] <jbailey> wasabi_: Eh, why not?
[11:04] <wasabi_> eh?
[11:04] <ogra_> mdz, next week...
[11:04] <wasabi_> no udev?
[11:04] <ogra_> mdz, or rather this weekend
[11:04] <hno73> Riddell: I'm uploading now, here: http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/kubuntu/20051005/
[11:04] <jbailey> wasabi_: udevstart is run after hte modules are loaded, but before lvm, md, evms and friends are run.
[11:04] <mdz> ogra_: it's too late for intrusive changes
[11:04] <hno73> It will take about an hour to complete though
[11:05] <wasabi_> ahhh.
[11:05] <wasabi_> I see
[11:05] <jbailey> wasabi_: So you can hook it either onto the general module loading, or mknod it.
[11:05] <mdz> ogra_: that bug isn't a showstopper for 5.10 and fixing it has the potential to create new bugs
[11:05] <ogra_> mdz, hmm, what about just adding a check for a env var (a one liner)
[11:05] <wasabi_> So the hook will force the modules to be loaded before udevstart populates dev
[11:05] <jbailey> wasabi_: But since the only reason someone would load this package is if they wanted it, I think it's okay to use the general module loading case.
[11:05] <wasabi_> vs doing it in my script which won't get nodes made
[11:05] <poningru> I was wondering whatever happend to the goal of windows migration?
[11:05] <poningru> in breazy
[11:05] <ogra_> mdz, so you could set XSS_NOLOCK in casper
[11:05] <wasabi_> also, does mount in initrd not autodetect type?
[11:05] <wasabi_> Doesn't seem to
[11:05] <poningru> err how come its not under defered or anything
[11:06] <mdz> ogra_: would have been fine a week or two ago, but not now
[11:06] <ogra_> ok
[11:06] <mdz> ogra_: this is RC
[11:06] <mdz> final = RC + showstopper bugfixes and ultra-safe trivial fixes
[11:06] <ogra_> mdz, ok
[11:07] <wasabi_> jbailey, also, my situation is thus: mount /dev/hda1 inside initrd, loopback mount root, change to it, and then mount /dev/hda1 again on /boot
[11:07] <wasabi_> How do you propose that?
[11:07] <wasabi_> a bind mount sure, but how do I rig it up?
[11:08] <jbailey> wasabi_: Eh, didn't we get a sript written for you already to handle this?
[11:08] <wasabi_> Well, not the whole remounting part.
[11:08] <jbailey> ISTR you saying it was all working. =)
[11:09] <jbailey> Ah.
[11:09] <ssam> hi, where do i find todays breezy live daily? thanks
[11:09] <seb128> mdz: amd64/livecd alright
[11:09] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[11:09] <seb128> mdz: I've tried to track the gdm slowness today too
[11:10] <jdong> seb128: so how was looking at lpi?
[11:10] <Mithrandir> ssam: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ ?
[11:10] <seb128> mdz: mandriva builds their cairo with a workaround for xrender issues which create slowness
[11:11] <seb128> mdz: but that has no change on Ubuntu
[11:11] <seb128> mdz: I've built cairo/pango/glib/gtk/gdm current on hoary then, and that's fast as the hoary version, so I blame xorg/xrender
[11:11] <mdz> seb128: hmm, that's interesting
[11:11] <seb128> jdong: was busy with other stuff
[11:11] <mdz> seb128: please update bugzilla with that info
[11:12] <seb128> mdz: sure, I'll try to update xorg now on the hoary updated box
[11:12] <seb128> and then put that to bugzilla
[11:12] <mdz> Riddell: how do the kubuntu builds look?
[11:12] <seb128> mdz: for the I/O slowness, no such issue neither on my desktop or laptop ... 
[11:15] <ajmitch> morning
[11:16] <jdong> ajmitch:  afternoon :)
[11:16] <ajmitch> hey jordi 
[11:16] <ajmitch> sigh
[11:16] <ajmitch> s/jordi/jdong/
[11:16] <wasabi_> gnome-vol-manager should totally mount things without any write cache
[11:16] <jdong> ajmitch: this is your second time with me, isn't it? ;)
[11:17] <ajmitch> jdong: probably 
[11:17] <mdz> seb128: me either, but clearly many people are experiencing the problem
[11:17] <ajmitch> that's what I get for reading scrollback
[11:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: one of the problems is that nobody here on IRC or similar is able to reproduce it, so it's bloody hard to debug.
[11:19] <seb128> right :/
[11:20] <seb128> bddebian: you had GNOME question? you can ask them on #ubuntu-desktop
[11:21] <mpt> poningru: it was never approved, and no developers were assigned to it
[11:21] <bddebian> seb128: Well I got it to almost build
[11:22] <mpt> poningru: Maybe we'll have better luck at the next conference in a few weeks
[11:22] <Eins> hi guys i got a problem with some last breezy updates hdc hdd devices doesn't works
[11:22] <poningru> mpt: I see no Bofs for it
[11:22] <poningru> mpt: I would love to work on this but my skills are limited to python
[11:23] <BenM> mdz, on http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6108, what can i do to help you guys debug
[11:23] <BenM> there's nothing funky in my logs
[11:25] <Eins> anybody knows why this devies are not working  (on breezy live cd works fine)
[11:25] <mpt> poningru: MigratingToUbuntu
[11:25] <poningru> oh rofl
[11:25] <poningru> thanks mpt 
[11:27] <poningru> mpt: I was wondering why that isnt high priority?
[11:27] <bddebian> frikin' A gnome-launch-box builds
[11:27] <poningru> wait are you Mathew Thomas?
[11:27] <mpt> poningru: that's me
[11:27] <mpt> modulo an extra "t"
[11:27] <poningru> hehe
[11:28] <poningru> mpt: wait you used to volunteer at mofo right?
[11:28] <poningru> I think I have heard stories about you
[11:28] <mpt> It was before the days of mofo
[11:28] <poningru> from asa and the gang
[11:28] <mpt> Bad stories, no doubt
[11:28] <poningru> right ofcourse
[11:28] <poningru> hehe some bad some good
[11:28] <poningru> you know jx right?
[11:28] <poningru> jesus x?
[11:28] <mpt> jx? not by those initials
[11:28] <mpt> oh, jesus_x
[11:28] <mpt> yeah
[11:29] <poningru> hehe cool
[11:29] <poningru> yeah good stories from him
[11:29] <mpt> I used to piss people off, because the distances between Mozilla and elegance, and between myself and tactfulness, were both rather large
[11:29] <poningru> hehe true
[11:29] <poningru> you should come hang out in #bs
[11:30] <poningru> dont know if you were there at the creation of that
[11:30] <mpt> the former being the cause of Firefox and Thunderbird, and the latter being the cause of my not being involved in Firefox or Thunderbird :-)
[11:30] <poningru> yeah true
[11:30] <poningru> irc.mozilla.org #bs
[11:32] <wasabi_> jbailey, anyway I can make the initrd step thru messages? or log?
[11:32] <wasabi_> It's erroring like, 2 screens up
[11:34] <jbailey> wasabi_: Add "exec >/dev/foo 2>&1" after it mounts /dev
[11:34] <jbailey> wasabi_: That way if it manages to boot, you'll still have it n your /dev
[11:35] <jbailey> wasabi_: That doesn't entirely work, but it'll be something close to that.
[11:36] <jbailey> wasabi_: IF you manage to find the answer before I do, lemme know.  I've been tryiing to add a debug log mode that doesn't require adding a whole bunch of extra logging to each function. =)
[11:36] <joh> Anyone know what happened to the nvidia kernel module in linux-restricted-modules on breezy?
[11:36] <Mithrandir> joh: still there?
[11:37] <joh> Mithrandir: no, it's not...
[11:37] <Mithrandir> joh: on my system, it is. :-)
[11:37] <joh> Mithrandir: it is!? which version of linux-restricted-modules?
[11:38] <grayman> erm its there
[11:38] <Mithrandir> ii  linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-9-amd64-k8-smp  2.6.12.4-8     Non-free Linux 2.6.12 modules on AMD K8 SMP
[11:38] <Mithrandir> at least
[11:39] <wasabi_> jbailey, we should totally define a binaryish interface for initrd pieces... so we can use C. ;)
[11:39] <Mithrandir> wasabi_: "klibc"?
[11:39] <joh> Mithrandir: hmmm
[11:39] <wasabi_> I mean for the interaction of the hooks and scripts.
[11:42] <wasabi_> I get the feeling somehow this isn't runnin gin the right place
[11:42] <wasabi_> local-top is where stuff that creates the root device should be, right? that's where all the rest is.
[11:43] <joh> Mithrandir: ah, figured it out. installing nvidia-glx didn't install the kernel module for my kernel... even though it depends on linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-9-k7
[11:43] <jbailey> wasabi_: Right.
[11:43] <wasabi_> where does init kick off local-top?
[11:43] <Mithrandir> joh: you may need to reboot to have the modules built again.
[11:43] <jbailey> wasabi_: That's after udevstart has run, though.
[11:43] <wasabi_> run_scripts /scripts/init-premount ?
[11:44] <wasabi_> that's all I see before mountroot
[11:44] <jbailey> mountroot calls scripts/local's mountroot function.
[11:44] <joh> Mithrandir: the modules are built at boot? (it worked after installing linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-9-k7)
[11:44] <wasabi_> Ahh I see
[11:44] <wasabi_> Just found it
[11:44] <jbailey> wasabi_: It's how I do polymorphism in shell. =)
[11:44] <jbailey> wasabi_: I don't need no stinkin' pointers.
[11:44] <wasabi_> haha yeah
[11:45] <jbailey> (I used to be a pascal programmer, can you tell?)
[11:45] <Mithrandir> joh: they should be, yes, but if it works now, then it works, so.
[11:45] <joh> Mithrandir: ok :)
[11:50] <wasabi_> gar stupid thing
[11:51] <wasabi_> hmm, /proc/cmdline doesn't exist
[11:51] <wasabi_> weird
[12:01] <lj-ia64-live> IT'S ALIVE!!!