=== LaschW [n=laschw@dyndsl-085-016-007-235.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === LaschW [n=laschw@dyndsl-085-016-007-235.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LaschW [n=laschw@dyndsl-085-016-007-235.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ /topic| 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | 5 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@nat1.sp.collab.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@www.binaries4all.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:24] !meeting set CommunityCouncil 11 Oct 14:00 [01:24] Bad chan: #ubuntu-meeting [01:24] !meeting set CommunityCouncil 11 Oct 14:00 === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 5 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU [01:25] Couldn't resist writing python at midnight :) [01:28] brb === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Sepheebear [n=SepheeBe@cpe-68-175-57-11.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@p5487FAC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === otep [n=paltok@AP-203.167.31.158.sysads.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === craigaa [n=craigaa@nngy-165-161-94.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [i=foobar@i577B132A.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [i=foobar@i577B132A.versanet.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] === sepheebear_ [n=SepheeBe@cpe-68-175-57-11.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-160-154.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LaschW [n=laschw@dyndsl-085-016-002-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LaschW [n=laschw@dyndsl-085-016-002-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:54] **Reminder** 5 mins to Edubuntu Update Meeting i === flint [n=flint@static-66-160-92-78.dsl.cavtel.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:00] JJane is too damn eary [02:00] sorry Janew are you floating arount here? [02:00] hi flint === ogra ties the floating Jane somewhere so she doesnt float away [02:01] you are a mean woman...I need my beauty rest! [02:01] hehehe [02:01] morning ollie! === JaneW just wolfed down lunch so won't be floating anywhere ;) [02:01] flint, come on, youre beautiful enough [02:02] elkner just woke me up with a call from his classroom [02:02] flint: actually I was thinking of moving the meeting forward 2 hours, would you prefer that? [02:03] he is operating smoothly and is content with the pix fix that Jane and you suggested Ollie. [02:03] no...ok yea! [02:03] flint: glad to hear it :)) [02:03] ok let's get this show on the road [02:04] jane 2 hours + will place it at your nap time, What good would that do? [02:04] no jsgotango ? [02:04] hehe, no 2 hours forward is 10UCT (12:00pm here) [02:05] apartently he is at Burger King [02:05] hmm [02:05] ah another floater... [02:05] so it's the 3 of us? [02:05] looks like [02:05] well the main victory of this week was getting rid of JessicaX^ [02:05] I am humble in the presence of such power... [02:05] i already sent my weekl report to jane, but will post it again here [02:06] ogra: flood away [02:06] Serious blocker bugs we have: [02:06] - #12942 - NFS timeout * solved !!! [02:06] not *this serious* [02:06] - #15244 - logins timeout if you try to relogin within the minute you logged out [02:06] open LTSP bugs: [02:06] - ltsp-server postinst needs to generate the dhcp.conf file dynamically according to the selected IP adress [02:06] (currently the most important bug we have, makes the install fail if a wrong IP range was selected) [02:06] ogra: it;s up in the meeting notes already too [02:06] - PATH variable doesnt contain the /usr/games PATH [02:06] cosmetic LTSP bugs: [02:06] - Locale selection in the login manager need fixing or must be ripped out [02:06] (could get ripped out since it will use the server locale by default) [02:06] - Session selection in the login manager need fixing or must be ripped out [02:06] (we dont have sessions yet so the latter is the best option) [02:06] open Installer Bugs (all cosmetic): [02:06] - error message about IP selesction [02:06] - ltsp-client-builder.udeb progress reporting is missing (removing the progressbar and adding a text will do here) [02:06] open Extra bugs: [02:06] - one small xscreensaver bug where screensavers start in random mode where they shouldnt start at all [02:06] (can be worked around by not selecting random mode, but should better be fixed) [02:06] - artwork must be packaged new, the mozilla homepage (about edubuntu) handling changed completely, fixing this will get [02:06] very tricky since we cant cover all translations and will have to replace them *all* with the same page i have no [02:06] idea how to solve that yet and didnt know it was planned. [02:06] - i decided to disable all sound components for now since we dont support sound on the thin clients and it will confuse [02:06] the users (soundserver and volume control in the panel) needs to be added to the artwork package [02:06] Package bugs (not solved due to xscreensaver hacking, ajmitch took over but getting it past mdz on the CD at [02:06] this point seems hard (but not impossible)): === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.76] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:06] - moodle www-config-common bug [02:07] - moodle security bug needs upgrade to v1.5.1 [02:07] CDs: [02:07] - the powerpc CD now exploded completely (17MB to big), i'm not yet sure what to rip out from it to make it usable, sugestions for not needed package [02:07] - due to a broken acpi-support package in ubuntu todays daily isnt installable on all arches. [02:07] ------------------- [02:07] gcompris is fixed completely, upstream tested it and thanked for the fixing :) [02:07] i was mainly busy with sabdfl's xscreensaver whishes last week... over the weekend i fixed gcompris... [02:07] nod, you have been very busy [02:07] and productive === mhz [n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:08] moin [02:08] hi mhz [02:08] damn... === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.76] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] [02:08] currently my greates drawback is that i still had no time to work on my bazaar skills, but mdz doesnt accept patches to ltsp anymore... [02:08] else the ltsp stuff would be fixed today :/ [02:08] mdz is a weenie [02:08] ogra: has mdz seen edubuntu yet? [02:09] JaneW, no idea, he knows toutstanding he ltsp problems... [02:09] *the outstanding [02:09] I would opine that he is buzy with the final coat of paint on breezy [02:09] what can be done? [02:09] jane, what you have is releasable. [02:09] JaneW: and all of you: I am sorry, but I do have to go to a meeting (about Gov. and its tries to implement IT on education). When will the final Ubuntu Cd covers be ok? [02:09] JaneW, nothing except me learning bazaar to get the fixes merged [02:10] but it wont be ready for RC i fear [02:10] mhz: I am waiting for them.... [02:10] mhz: I ask again today and will mail you as soon as we have something [02:10] edu-cool! [02:10] :) [02:10] flint, it isnt as long as the dhcp.conf generation is missing [02:11] flint, if you select a different IP in the installer, the install fails at the end [02:11] that dhcp.conf just means that you have only one range to use, the 192.168.1.whatever i thought. [02:11] thast not releasable [02:11] Again, I am very sorry I have to leave. Best regards to ALL of you and hope you get enlightened enough to work and be happy at the same time :D [02:12] by! [02:12] bye! [02:12] flint, yes, but people select other ranges at the beginning of the install are bitten [02:12] ollie keep in mind how pissed off I was that I culd not weedle the lotr patch in. [02:12] adios [02:12] thanks mhz === mhz is off to a meeting and probably willnot have IRC during the day :( [02:12] flint, its release critical imho... your change was cosmetic, but the lort login works at least [02:13] okey dokey, but we share a common goal, getting this stuff on the CD. What ho Joan (Jane) of Arc? [02:14] flint, yes, but installer issues are way more important [02:14] ollie you are a poet broken is lort fixed is lotr... [02:15] :) [02:15] mdz will argue that a fixed non routable dhcp ip stanza is fine... (BTW I am not trying to piss you off :^) Just being a devils advocate... [02:15] jsgotangco was complaining that no one is helping (collaborating) on the docs on the wiki [02:15] flint, it prevents edubuntu-server from being installed [02:15] its not a routing prob [02:16] I would imaging that acerbic comment is directed at me jane... :^) send me a nag email. [02:16] ...and you have to go and edit the dhcp.conf file manually. right olllie? [02:16] JaneW, i'm complaining that i have to redo edubuntu-artwork because nobody notified the changes in the default firefoix homepage... [02:17] ogra: can you explain that a bit [02:17] I am not sure I understand the issue [02:17] flint, yes, and afterwards you have to reinstall every single package edubuntu-server depends on manually [02:18] JaneW, last week th default omepage (click the house in firefox to see it) was moved out of ubuntu-artwork and into ubuntu-docs... [02:18] thats no prob so far [02:18] in practice you can run with the edited dhcp.conf file ok. [02:18] JaneW, but the new page gets set by language packs to the translated version now... which means we have 90 different versions of it [02:18] in different locations [02:19] Ladies and gentlemen, I feel need to unlock from the breezy release, or have network based patches. [02:19] so if you have edubuntu-artwork installed (which exchanges the default page with about-edubuntu) and install a language pack afterwards, it gets overwritten with the localized about-ubuntu page [02:20] flint, thats technically not possible [02:20] ogra: oic! [02:20] mdz already explained that [02:20] ogra: I always change my default home page immediately ;) [02:21] JaneW, my prob is that i havent palnned a minute to touch -artwork again, but its a big prob i dont know how to solve yet [02:21] ogra: why was it moved? [02:21] the network based patch thing is. you built one ollie... [02:21] JaneW, ask the -doc team... its was a surprise for me when jdub removed the page from ubuntu-artwork.... [02:22] JaneW, diziet was bitten by it as well (ff maintainer), but for him its solved... [02:22] so what do we have to do? [02:23] kids the issue appears we will need to patch any actual installation of edubuntu if we cannot change the release cd. Is that it? [02:23] move ours out of the artwork package too? [02:23] JaneW, nope [02:23] JaneW, it doesnt matter in which package the page is [02:23] if it gets overwritten by langpack changes .... [02:24] I get it. the langpack and the actual pages are not quite synced up. [02:24] so we'd need our own lang packs!? [02:24] the prob is that we dont have 90 versions of the page... and that i cant make sure all occurences of it get replaced with ours [02:24] that would be a solution but not in this timeframe [02:24] right, do we have any translations of about edubuntu [02:24] ? [02:25] nope [02:25] not to my knowledge [02:25] can we force the english page to stay there? [02:25] ut we cant prevent localization [02:25] nope [02:25] not as its designed now [02:25] is there any solution? [02:26] and how NB is it? [02:26] NB ? [02:26] what is there's a link on each about ubuntu page to the english about edubuntu page? [02:26] JaneW, and what if i use ubuntu ? [02:26] Nota Bena (or whatever) latin for important [02:27] theer wont be a about edubuntu page [02:27] then you;d ignore it, or read it for interest sake [02:27] warty sucked this bad out of the gate... The cool thing here is that most every copy of edubuntu will have a net feed. Nota bene Jane. [02:27] read what '? [02:27] you get an error massage if its not there [02:27] message [02:27] ogra: right [02:28] on-line link? [02:28] and i doubt the doc team would be happy with a edubuntu link [02:28] agreed, but I [02:28] 'm thinking of an solution [02:28] any [02:28] me too, we still have time... i wont touch -artwork this week, probably i can come up with a solution the next days [02:29] jane, in comparison to the fundamental IP type problem that ollie is alluding to this artwork stuff is small. You will not connect with the dhcp.conf bug. [02:29] flint, nope [02:29] flint, you will not be able to *install* [02:30] its not about connection [02:30] ok well the good news is that sabdfl has commited to funding us to print off some CDs [02:30] its only the thin client side that isnt connected by default anyway [02:30] ollie, i mean that under certain situations your workstations and the server will not talk. [02:30] the bad news is if we *cough*cockitup*cough* that will be it for edubuntu [02:30] flint, yes, because no ltsp is installed [02:31] jane we did not screw up. we have the patches we just cannot get them in the stream. [02:31] flint, that doesnt matter.... [02:31] we consultants are great at standing holding the seat belt and watching the auto crash. [02:31] what is in on release date must work [02:32] so here's what sabdfl wants [02:32] Document the shipping [02:32] plan, and ask teams to document their distribution plans ON THE SAME [02:32] PAGE. So, I want to see a wiki page that says we are shipping 500 CD's [02:32] to Germany (and to whom), and beneath that, where that team plamns to [02:32] distribute those 500 CD's. And then on the same page, the plans for [02:32] Nigeria. So on a single page we can see how those 8,000 CD's will be use [02:32] we gotta fix the dhcp then. [02:32] i'm here i'm here === shawarma [n=sh@3E6B503C.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:32] hi highvoltage [02:32] flint, exactly [02:32] hi hi hivoltage... [02:32] god i love recursion.... [02:33] hi JaneW and flint [02:33] :) [02:34] do you guys want me to bell the cat, or do you want elkner to write the sabdfl and say what we have is not complete technically? [02:34] flint, eeek, please dont... [02:34] ogra: is there an easy way to get a summary of packages and their sizes? [02:34] highvoltage, what for ? [02:35] gotcha ollie, but we got to do something. [02:35] ogra: removing the best selection of packages for PPC. [02:35] i'm tending to think gcompris, just because it's so big. [02:35] but there's probably a better selection of software to remove. [02:35] blender3d is possibly one of them. [02:35] but gcompris is quite essential [02:36] true, it's one of the things that make edubuntu edubuntu. [02:36] blender would be a candidate [02:36] how about evolution? [02:36] flint, but that doesnt involve sabdfl [02:36] most schools will probably use web based clients. [02:36] In the annals hivoltage, you name shall be "The Butcher of PPC"! I salute you!!! [02:36] flint: ;) [02:36] flint: I solute you too, and most people in this chanel, for that matter. [02:36] highvoltage, i'm not sure how easy that is... i have to look at it [02:36] ok. [02:37] but blender is a good guess... [02:37] probably scribus [02:37] apologies for just barging in and flooding, i nearly forgot about this meeting. [02:37] ogra, sabdfl will be the one disapointed. this is expectation management pure and simple. [02:37] do we have a set agenda or do i have permission to babble for just a bit longer? [02:37] no worries hv, your thoughts on Butchery are well received in this meeting. [02:38] flint, the release is good, as you said in the beginnig, but the dhcp.conf bug needs to get solved, its a mdz thing === highvoltage is having trouble understanding flint, but continues babbling in another direction [02:38] my prob is that i lost 10 days [02:38] the website. [02:39] due to screensaver flipping back and forth [02:39] hno73 has the wiki theme done. it's beatiful. we also have our basic html edubuntu page(s) [02:39] s/screensaver/screensaver packages/ [02:39] the site and wiki will look different, but with a very, very similar theme. i think it's looking good. [02:39] ogra, the damn thing will work attached to a dedicated switch if you patch the files according to the (still unwritten) documentation, correct? [02:40] elmo has been scarce again since thursday, all i need him to do is change some dns and apache settings, and we're good to go. [02:40] flint, the thing will work if you go with the suggested IP range [02:40] flint: the 'cookbook' exists. [02:40] highvoltage: yes what you and hno73 have done is looking great, did you get my mail? [02:40] flint, if you change that, the dhcp.conf needs to pick up this change [02:40] JaneW: i might have, i'm a bit behind with mail, we've had a two-day meeting over monday and tuesday. [02:41] highvoltage: elmo is on leave,,, [02:41] highvoltage: oic [02:41] crap. [02:41] when is he back? [02:41] how can he choose a time like this to be on leave!? it's like, a freakin' week before release! [02:41] can;t find it now but I think he said he is off till thurs (tomorrow) [02:41] I know [02:42] but Karl is there [02:42] ok, that at least is managable [02:42] highvoltage, because he worked much harder than anybody else the last weeks [02:42] ogra: ok :) [02:42] requests must go to: "Now that there's two admins, please email all admin requests to: rt@admin.canonical.com" [02:42] no harm intended to elmo, for the record. [02:42] and had to introduce karl [02:42] ...to his job [02:42] i'll send it to request tracker. anyone have Karl's e-mail too? [02:43] and the change in dhcp.conf has to flow to all the client configurations, got it. Highvoltage, where is this "cookbook" got a url? [02:43] highvoltage: so mail the queue and it should get done, in fact it's much more likely to get done like that (more official) [02:43] brb [02:43] flint: in our wiki [02:43] flint: look in the docs section [02:44] jane, you can tell a lot about a girl by the size of her wiki :^) [02:44] where on the wiki? [02:44] ok I will go look... sorry. [02:44] n n [02:45] flint! [02:46] what else? [02:46] i'm looking! i'm looking (i'm laughting :^) [02:48] when we go live with this thing jane, the only thing that will help us hold the line is this wiki of yours. I will find the time to help with it. [02:48] ...getting documentation correct on the page i mean. === LaschW [n=laschw@dyndsl-085-016-002-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] [02:50] my conculsion is that since we are powerless to change the release cd, our only option is to mitigate any rough edges in the documentation. this we can do. [02:50] flint: great thanks [02:51] nod [02:51] and get a nice CD cover and label design [02:51] mhz is in carge of that, so collaborate with him === ogra [n=ogra@p5089F76D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:51] flint: also we can do some good press releases [02:52] I have compelte faith in your graphic design capabilities young lady. [02:52] sorry, my keaboard went mad, i had to reset [02:53] the linux world interview of sabdfl mentions edubuhntu almost as one leg of the tripod, ubuntu, kubuntu, and edubuntu. [02:55] regarding press, I can see what kind of bother I can cause in DC. Ollie, am I bad to say that the dhcp.conf fix is most important? [02:55] ogra: what is it with the KB of yours? [02:55] its going mad sometines... i already ordered a new one... but wont recieve it before UBZ [02:56] jane, it says "Underwood" at the top and is very pretty. [02:56] flint, nope, youre absolutely right [02:56] I think it is agreed that the DHCP thing needs to be fixed - ogra but is there any chance of it being fixed before the 13th? [02:56] flint, all other stuff is minor annoyance and cosmetic stuff [02:56] JaneW, absolutely [02:57] cool. done [02:57] JaneW, else i'll resign myself :) [02:57] agreed. Note that we have patched around this in all the installations we have done. === JaneW will need to as well then... [02:57] ok is there anything else to discuss? [02:57] i want to have it fixed locally today, the question is how to get it in... i need a bazaar training [02:57] lets get our A's into G and get this release wrapped [02:57] literally and figuratively [02:58] ogra: can we bribe someone? [02:58] Jane-of-arc, get your armor on, grab yous sword and lets go fight for dhcp.conf [02:58] JaneW, i'll ask jblack, he offered one to me... but the sad thng is that the patch wont be in for RC [02:59] that's tomorrow right? [02:59] i'll jum right on it now to make it ready here [02:59] does jblack have time to help? [02:59] ok [02:59] and the WSIS thing? [02:59] JaneW, i'll ask him [02:59] should I talk to mdz about making it ubuntu olnly? [02:59] no idea, i gave you all my views [03:00] we probably should talk with him [03:00] ok [03:00] to see his opinion [03:00] ollie, do you have to use bazaar to generate the iso at this point? That would be most cool. what do you mean ubuntu only? [03:00] flint, i have to use bazaar for all of my job [03:00] so mdz can merge my changes [03:00] (and not only mdz) [03:00] I can tell you he is most disinclined to change anything in the current release. [03:01] but he knows the problem with ltsp [03:01] this fix he will accept, be sure [03:01] Note that the LTSP rewrite was his baby this summer. [03:01] its just the technical part on my side that needs to be ok... [03:02] flint, as if i wouldnt know that [03:02] its not a problem with him not liking my changes, its a problem on my side that i cant provide the changes as he wants them [03:03] and thats what i have to fix... [03:03] I can live with a dog that dances and looks a little scruffy, especially a newborne one, they are always cute. But it must dance. [03:03] exactly [03:04] ogra, I will probably call matt and harass him about this issue, after talking to elkner. Elkner and I call him at lunch on a cell phone. [03:04] and elkner is back online today. [03:05] flint, dont do that, he surely gets annoyed [03:05] i wouldnt like to annoy him before i have anything in my hands [03:05] flint: don't irk him more than necessary! [03:05] yea... I really look forward to hearing him sputter... [03:06] I can be gentle and diplomatic, moreover he listens to jeff and I can put him on the phone... [03:06] flint, being gentle to a guy that hasnt slept enough doesnt help :) [03:07] mdz is one of the best sputter-ers I know. His first sputter is normally about the lack of testing response.... [03:07] flint wait until i have the fix ready and have talked to him, he knows how critical the fix is for us [03:07] ogra, this is important. Has he been online all night? [03:08] i guess so... we're short before RC, he doesnt sleep much at this times... [03:08] (as i do :) ) [03:08] I will not poke him with a stick when he is sleeping. [03:08] gotcha. let me ruminate then. [03:08] flint, just wait until i have prepared the patch and have talked to him [03:09] get this one last bug slayed and go to the fair. I would be most interested in your patch ollie. can I look at it? [03:09] I might actually learn something valuable. [03:09] flint, yes, if its done... [03:10] ok ladies I must go [03:10] i'll send it to you... but note that its only important for the CD (installer) [03:10] ogra see you in a bit [03:10] I actually liked your lotr patch, and I sent back an embelishment [03:10] lets get this DHCP thing whacked [03:10] yup [03:10] jane your f-a-b-u-l-o-u-s [03:11] flint, note too that its a patch for the deb, it has nothing to do with ltsp itself... [03:11] ogra: thanks for the great and detailed report :) [03:11] thanks for being here janew === Ju_ [n=Ju@AAubervilliers-153-1-37-44.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:11] (its really only about installation) [03:11] JaneW, my job... i shuld have started earlier with them :) [03:11] email me what you can when you can ollie. merely for my own education. [03:12] flint, this evening/night (my time) it shoudl be ready [03:12] ogra: agreed, but better late than never ;) [03:12] sure :) [03:12] I will brief elkner this day. [03:12] i'll do that on a regular basis before the meetins now [03:14] good luck to all and good day/evening/morning/afternoon. Remember Howard Hughes once flew the worlds largest wooden plane 175 yards in order to say it worked. Working is a matter of perception. [03:14] thank oli [03:14] sorry about that, lots of interuptions here. === JaneW will try to organise everything else, CD coveres docs and other peripherals etc [03:15] not that i'm in a position to ask either, but anything that i can do to help still, or find someone to do? [03:17] I'm outa here. 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