[12:01] <lamont__> sorry - I just couldn't resist
[12:02] <Nafallo> lol
[12:02] <ajmitch> lamont__: able to drop dep-wait for phpmyadmin for me? :)
[12:02] <lj-ia64-live> Mithrandir: I want my openoffice.org2/ia64, dammit
[12:02] <Mithrandir> lj-ia64-live: ship me an ia64 box, then. :-P
[12:03] <wasabi_> jbailey, is there at least some way to pause execution?
[12:03] <wasabi_> read doesn't seem to work
[12:03] <wasabi_> causes a kernel panic
[12:04] <Mithrandir> lj-ia64-live: bump me on the list, not just put me on it. :-P
[12:04] <lamont__> ajmitch: by your command
[12:04] <lamont__> Mithrandir: dude there's like you and one more person on it.
[12:04] <ajmitch> thank you
[12:06] <Mithrandir> lamont__: heh, 'k.  Anyway, what's the hold-up for ooo2-amd64?
[12:06] <lamont__> Mithrandir: one of the dep packages is Arch: amd64 or has amd64 specifics in it...
[12:09] <os2mac> anyone got time to talk about ACPI on a dell inspiron?
[12:09] <lamont__> dpkg-gencontrol: error: current build architecture ia64 does not appear in package's list (amd64)
[12:10] <Mithrandir> lamont__: it's probably just an oversight of my part, since none of the parts should be amd64-only, they should be "amd64 ia64".
[12:10] <jbailey> wasabi_: Umm.
[12:10] <jbailey> wasabi_: No idea.  It's not something I'd considered. =)
[12:10] <lamont__> Mithrandir: ia32-libs: dpkg-deb: failed to open package info file `debian/lib32z1/DEBIAN/control' for reading: No such file or directory
[12:10] <jbailey> wasabi_: Try just calling shell
[12:10] <lamont__> iz amd64 biarch crap that killed it
[12:10] <jbailey> wasabi_: Then you can type exit and keep going.
[12:10] <Mithrandir> lamont__: ah, so the ia32-libs stuff is broken on ia64.
[12:10] <wasabi_> ahh
[12:10] <lamont__> Mithrandir: and oo.o2-amd64 needs to be taught about ia6
[12:10] <Mithrandir> lamont__: care to file a bug about it and I'll fix it tomorrow+
[12:10] <lamont__> 4
[12:11] <lamont__> Mithrandir: will do
[12:11] <jbailey> wasabi_: Don't use panic, though.  It exec's shell so that you can exec run-init after and still keep everything as pid 1
[12:16] <seb128> mdz: do you have a min to try something?
[12:16] <wasabi_> jbailey, not following. I run sh from inside the script?
[12:16] <wasabi_> And then type exit to exit? Okay, makes sense.
[12:16] <wasabi_> When I type exit it panics
[12:16] <Mithrandir> wasabi_: type exec /sbin/init instead
[12:17] <wasabi_> but that doesn't resume the position it was at does it?
[12:17] <wasabi_> heh maybe I can sleep for a few seconds
[12:22] <mdz> seb128: yes
[12:22] <seb128> mdz: you have the gdm slowness right? could you try with those packages? http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/libgnomecanvas/
[12:22] <seb128> mdz: I think I've tracked it down
[12:22] <Nafallo> seb128: dholbach has it :-)
[12:22] <seb128> but some feedback would be welcome :)
[12:22] <seb128> Nafallo: he just said he has not
[12:23] <dholbach> Nafallo: no, i asked if somebody has it
[12:23] <mdz> seb128: I certainly can
[12:23] <seb128> mdz: thanks
[12:23] <Nafallo> seb128, dholbach: dooh. my mistake :-)
[12:23] <dholbach> seb128: whiprush does too
[12:23] <duffman25> Hello. Does anyone here know what happened to the ubuntu traffic page? There haven't been any updates in a long time
[12:24] <lamont__> Mithrandir: 17119 assigned to you.  Does oo.o2-amd64 need a bug too?
[12:24] <wasabi_> hah crazy
[12:24] <seb128> dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/libgnomecanvas/ if he wants to try with those
[12:24] <wasabi_> after about 400 hot swaps of this compact flash card, it started mounting it in /media/scsidisk instead of /media/usbdisk
[12:24] <Mithrandir> lamont__: if it's arch line is wrong, yes.
[12:24] <lamont__> ok
[12:24] <dholbach> seb128: rocking, thanks
[12:25] <seb128> dholbach: thank you :)
[12:25] <lamont__> Mithrandir: is it? :-)
[12:25] <BenM> mdz, i really need some help to give you guys data on the laptop freezing issue
[12:25] <BenM> would having an ssh login to my box help?
[12:25] <Mithrandir> lamont__: I can't be arsed to download 50000TB of sources on my measly 3Mbit. :-P
[12:25] <mdz> BenM: no, I don't think it would.  there's nothing we can do via ssh when it hangs :-)
[12:26] <BenM> actually, that might not be true; i noticed that the network light on my hub stays on when it hangs
[12:26] <mdz> BenM: what would help would be to collect information about who is experiencing the bug and find out what they have in common
[12:26] <BenM> and it didn't before
[12:26] <mdz> this doesn't happen to everyone
[12:26] <BenM> it could potentially be X
[12:26] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: dude... the archive isn't that large :-P
[12:26] <BenM> i know that my roomate has it on another dell 600m
[12:26] <BenM> though that isn't much data for you :-)
[12:27] <lamont__> Mithrandir: 17120
[12:27] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: oh, sorry, just 500TB ooo2-amd64 sources.
[12:27] <Mithrandir> lamont__: cheers.
[12:27] <Nafallo> hehe
[12:27] <BenM> i was thinking ssh if you wanted to get some log data, settings on my computer etc
[12:27] <lamont__> Mithrandir: note that they're both currently 'Normal'...  I'll let you decide if we care enough for breezy...
[12:27] <lamont__> personally, I think the answer is 'no'
[12:28] <Mithrandir> lamont__: I'll punt the call to mdz/kamion
[12:28] <Mithrandir> lamont__: it's a trivial very-low-risk change, but those have broken stuff in the past, so..
[12:28] <mdz> BenM: it seems like there may be more than one bug
[12:28] <mdz> BenM: there is at least one hang when X isn't even running (I documented it in the bug)
[12:29] <BenM> i'm sorta thinking that at this point
[12:29] <mdz> seb128: those libgnomecanvas packages are a solid improvement
[12:29] <mdz> seb128: what's changed in them?
[12:30] <seb128> mdz: the interpolation type, they changed it between 2.10 and 2.12
[12:30] <seb128> they use a better but slower one
[12:30] <mdz> I can't tell the difference in quality, but it is noticeably faster
[12:30] <seb128> mdz: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129891 is the upstream bug
[12:31] <BenM> mdz, using teh binary driver didn't end up fixing my X problem, sadly
[12:31] <BenM> though i found that ati driver to be a bit unstable
[12:31] <seb128> mdz: cool, let's say that was the issue. It's as fast as the hoary one here with the change
[12:31] <BenM> dunno if that exactly rules out that other X bug
[12:31] <seb128> mdz: that's a one line change, should I upload that after the candidate tomorrow?
[12:32] <mdz> seb128: go ahead and upload now; I'll let it through once RC is out
[12:32] <seb128> mdz: cool, thanks
[12:35] <jdub> Whereas in the free software world, we do take an evolutionary approach, and we know over time that evolution beats intelligent design, right?
[12:35] <jdub> ^ sabdfl being cheeky
[12:36] <seb128> jdub: please try http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/libgnomecanvas/ and tell me if that fixes your gdm slowness :)
[12:37] <wasabi_> hmm, using disk mounter to umount this compact flash disk results in disk mounter clearing it.
[12:37] <jdub> canvas, eh?
[12:37] <wasabi_> but it's still mounted in the background.
[12:37] <wasabi_> flushing.
[12:37] <wasabi_> (bad)
[12:37] <seb128> jdub: just try :)
[12:37] <jdub> seb128: can't do this morning, preparing to leave :)
[12:37] <seb128> jdub: roh
[12:38] <seb128> jdub: k :)
[12:43] <mdz> jordi: don't go back to boston
[12:44] <mdz> who here can test DVDs?
[12:44] <wasabi_> I.
[12:46] <seb128> mdz: I can but that will take some hours to download ... 
[12:46] <seb128> ie: I can download while sleeping and try tomorrow morning
[12:47] <mdz> seb128: yes, it will take me a long time as well
[12:47] <jbailey> mdz: Theoretically.  That burners been giving me alot of coasters lately, though.
[12:47] <mdz> seb128: the build is finished so you can start downloading
[12:47] <wasabi_> jbailey, so, where should I mount /dev/hda1 where it's safe?
[12:47] <jbailey> wasabi_: Make a directory
[12:47] <ajmitch> mdz: ok, which image?
[12:47] <jbailey> mkdir /wasabimnt =)
[12:47] <wasabi_> If I use /mnt or /tmp run-init dies
[12:47] <wasabi_> Saying either one isn't empty.
[12:47] <wasabi_> Hmm. K.
[12:47] <mdz> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/weekly-dvd/current/
[12:48] <jbailey> You're in a ramfs, so as long as you clean up after yourself, you're fine.
[12:48] <wasabi_> I won't be.
[12:48] <wasabi_> That's the problem.
[12:48] <jbailey> mdz: Is it worth adding this to the nightly rsync list?
[12:48] <wasabi_> Oh I guess I can lazy umount?
[12:48] <wasabi_> After creating the loop device?
[12:48] <wasabi_> That gives me a problem with getting access to the file system later, though.
[12:48] <mdz> jbailey: perhaps
[12:48] <wasabi_> I need to be able to expose this tmp system as /boot in the real system
[12:49] <mdz> jbailey: concatenating live + install and then rsyncing that is fairly effective
[12:49] <mdz> seb128: ^^
[12:52] <seb128> mdz: good idea, thanks
[12:52] <jbailey> rsync just scares me that much more, then. =)
[12:53] <ajmitch> oh dear, grabbed 3K of the dvd so far
[12:53] <Mithrandir> jbailey: rsync is love.
[12:53] <ajmitch> looks to be something wrong somewhere on my box :)
[12:57] <jbailey> Do we have USB fob installs that should be tested?
[12:59] <jdong> If you guys need a break, I just got these from a friend's e-mail.... might give you a laugh: http://adambots.gotdns.com/cgi-bin/view/Main/WifeBeater
[01:02] <mdz> lamont: can you disable the livefs cron jobs please?
[01:03] <lamont__> mdz: already done so
[01:03] <lamont__> and daily-di
[01:03] <jdong> lamont__: is there anyway to boot the livecd just to console?
[01:04] <lamont__> mdz: around 0840 pacific today's date
[01:04] <lamont__> jdong: that's a casper question
[01:04] <jdong> hmm
[01:04] <lamont__> although ctl-alt-f2 will get you a terminal sessiion
[01:04] <lamont__> once booted.
[01:05] <jdong> lamont__ not if you run out of RAM beforehands :)
[01:05] <lamont__> ah, there is that
[01:05] <lamont__> jdong: it might be a question of building your own customized livecd.
[01:05] <lamont__> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
[01:05] <jdong> lamont__: Sure, rm /usr/sbin/gdm will stop X from loading... for good :)
[01:06] <segfault> maybe with init=/bin/bash?
[01:06] <jdong> segfault: gets passed to d-i
[01:06] <segfault> well, although it needs the ramdisk
[01:06] <jdong> segfault: busybox wasn't what I was looking for :)
[01:06] <jdong> Runlevel 2 is GDM... rl 1 does not get passed in....
[01:07] <jdong> I guess a grep line in /etc/init.d/gdm would be the best way
[01:08] <jdong> I might switch back to Knoppix-based, actually.... it boots faster, also... oh well
[01:08] <mdz> lamont__: thanks
[01:08] <mdz> jdong: yes, there is
[01:09] <mdz> jdong: "live casper-udeb/runlevel=S"
[01:09] <lamont__> mdz: woot
[01:14] <lamont__> mdz: if I have a usb keyfob and I want to use it instead of the ramdisk, is that an option yet?
[01:15] <mdz> lamont__: nope
[01:16] <mdz> lamont__: well, in a sort of maybe that would work but no one has ever tried it kind of way
[01:16] <lamont__> ok.  dapper goal/wish, I suppose?
[01:16] <lamont__> right
[01:16] <mdz> sure, why not
[01:16] <mdz> it was a hoary and a breezy wish too
[01:16] <lamont__> casper-udeb/snapshot/front-file?
[01:16] <mdz>  /cow-device actually
[01:16] <lamont__> also, casper should behave correctly when the machine is headless.. :-)
[01:17] <mdz> that will COMPLETELY DESTROY anything on your USB key of course
[01:17] <lamont__> yeah
[01:19] <lamont__> hppa live is kinda annoying right now.. network device not found because of hotplug issues, so we get no network, even though we have eth0.  And then sudo exits immediately --> no love.
[01:19] <lamont__> oh, and X fails to start.
[01:19] <lamont__> all in all, not terribly surprising
[01:19] <lamont__> install, however, rocks
[01:20] <lamont__> mdz: and, aside from the red background during init.d, ia64 live will just work once we burn a new iso.
[01:36] <dholbach> i'm off to bed... good night
[01:39] <mdz> dholbach: night
[01:39] <seb128> good idea, I'm going to bed too :)
[01:39] <seb128> 'night guys
[01:40] <dholbach> night seb128, sleep tight
[01:40] <seb128> you too!
[01:40] <mdz> seb128: good night
[01:41] <seb128> thanks
[01:43] <doko> mdz: does openoffice.org-amd64 need special handling?
[01:43] <doko> it's not yet built
[01:44] <mdz> doko: see /topic; we're releasing RC and so uploads are disallowed
[01:44] <mdz> doko: please test the current images
[01:45] <mdz> DVD especially needs testing
[01:45] <doko> ahh, ok, i just did an "immediate upload. did test the amd64 live/install which is fine. started a i386 install, but heading to bed now
[01:46] <mdz> I don't want to invalidate all of the testing which has been done in order to get that package in
[01:46] <mdz> a lot of person-hours have been spent on testing this candidate already
[01:46] <mdz> we'll bring it in after RC
[01:47] <doko> yep, completely agree. starting dvd downloads overnight
[01:47] <segfault> are those 05oct the pre-rc images?
[01:56] <Surak> grub-install does not work with hard drives bigger than 100 gb. Is that only me? 
[01:56] <HrdwrBob> only you
[01:58] <Surak> HrdwrBob: It works fine with SATA drives, even with 200gb. But ide ones does not.
[01:58] <jdong> mdz: Thanks!
[01:59] <mdz> segfault: the current daily build is the RC candidate, yes
[01:59] <jordi> mdz: It is decided man
[02:05] <segfault> should the live cds really include some windows programs, like OO, thunderbird, mozilla, gimp?
[02:06] <segfault> removing them would save some space for the langpacks
[02:08] <Surak> HrdwrBob: when I mount the file system (through a live cd), and do a grub-install --root-directory=/mnt/target /dev/hda  - it will do in ANY drive I try < 100 gb. I tried two 100gb ones, one 120gb and three 200gb. None of those worked. It says something about probing bios, and keeps there forever.
[02:09] <whiprush> jdub: We shall need a "Release Party Photos" gallery on the fridge
[02:10] <HrdwrBob> Surak: that's most likely a bios problem
[02:11] <grayman> looks like there is a problem with russian locale for tsclient. On clean breezy it gives nonesense strings. same when you check the translation in rosetta. Might it be written with a font that breezy dont have?
[02:12] <Surak> HrdwrBob: I tried this on at least four different motherboards.
[02:12] <Surak> different models, I mean.
[02:12] <grayman> that fact prevents from using the app
[02:12] <grayman> and looks ugly in the menu
[02:13] <Surak> One of them is amd64, via chipset. The other ones are both intel and sis chipsets.
[02:14] <grayman> erm
[02:14] <grayman> any ideas?
[02:15] <Surak> so it does not look like on specific broken bios.
[02:16] <mdz> jordi: NO
[02:19] <Riddell> mdz: kubuntu daily and daily-live 20051005 i386 CDs are both good
[02:20] <mdz> Riddell: those were built before the archive was frozen; there are now 20051006 CDs
[02:20] <Riddell> mdz: ok, I'll test those
[02:20] <segfault> mdz: any idea on what i said earlier?
[02:20] <segfault> mdz: about windows apps in the livecds
[02:20] <Riddell> mdz: can you change the live CD to use the new kubuntu winfoss collection http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/kubuntu/20051005/
[02:21] <Riddell> mdz: are we doing DVD release candidates?
[02:21] <mdz> segfault: yes, they are there intentionally
[02:21] <Surak> some strings reverted these days. Like screensaver is written in pt-pt when the rest of the system is pt_BR
[02:21] <mdz> Riddell: yes
[02:21] <mdz> Riddell: the Ubuntu ones are built
[02:21] <mdz> kubuntu DVDs are in progress
[02:22] <mdz> Riddell: add to bug 17125 regarding winfoss changes for 5.10
[02:22] <segfault> surak: you mean System->Preferences?
[02:22] <Surak> yes
[02:23] <mdz> Surak: file a bug against the appropriate langpack
[02:23] <Surak> my colleages talked about others, I did not notice
[02:24] <segfault> surak: there were some desktop typos fixed in pt_BR, but xscreensaver is not yet fixed
[02:25] <segfault> surak: i reported that as #16448, i guess ogra will fix that as soon as he have time
[02:25] <Surak> hm, ok. That one appears in fedora from time to time, like a ghost :-)
[02:26] <segfault> heh, i know... i hope dapper comes with gnome-screensaver
[02:39] <Surak> This big hard drive issue with grub is puzzling me. I don't know what can it be. There are so many machines seeing this. I just installed lilo at one of those, and it worked just fine. 
[02:40] <Nafallo> ehm, buildds borked?
[02:40] <lamont> mdz: when you say "archive frozen" what does that mean for the SCC archs that are struggling to catch back up after 2.12.1
[02:40] <lamont> ?
[02:41] <Nafallo> lamont: why does phpmyadmin and xserver-xorg-driver-synaptics FTBFS because of libghc6-cabal-dev ?
[02:42] <mdz> lamont: it means source uploads were locked down
[02:42] <slomo> and _why_ is haskel-cabal and all its binary packages not removed from the archives as it should and as i told elmo weeks ago...
[02:42] <mdz> and, hopefully, release architectures up-to-date
[02:43] <sistpoty> Nafallo: package was only half installed and failed to purge
[02:43] <Nafallo> sistpoty: ofcourse, but things like that shouldn't happen :-)
[02:44] <sistpoty> Nafallo: sure ;)
[02:48] <LaschW> Is ther a specific reason why ipt_TTL patch is not included in linux image pakets? Im talking of ipt_TTL (target module) not ipt_ttl (match module, which is part of linux images)
[02:52] <LaschW> Having a spurious inet provider who don't allow more than one computer per line this module allows to set al outgoing ip pakets to a fix ttl 
[02:53] <jdong> why doesn't Ubuntu have dm_bbr, especially since it includes EVMS in default?
[02:54] <crimsun> why aren't you guys volunteering dpatches?
[02:56] <lamont> Nafallo: because the chroto is broken because the package failed to remove properly.
[02:56] <lamont> Nafallo: it's on the list of things for infinity/me to look at.
[02:57] <slomo> lamont: that package should be removed completly for various reasons
[02:57] <lamont> mdz: release arch are (I beleive) all caught up - infinity did a mass give-back of everything that wasn't installed as of yesterday, just to catch things that were wrongly depwaited, now buildable, etc.
[02:57] <lamont> slomo: that would be one way to solve it.
[02:58] <slomo> lamont: and the correct way imho... that package is already provided by ghc6 >= 6.4 and we only have ghc6 >= 6.4...
[02:58] <mdz> lamont: yes, but I'm not sure whether that was true when the CD builds were done (though I believe it was)
[02:58] <slomo> lamont: is it ok with you when i upload a "fixed" cabal package for the time beeing that makes it simply uninstallable to avoid further breakage when some package pulls it in again?
[02:59] <lamont> mdz: I believe it was as well
[02:59] <slomo> lamont: and i would do another mass give-back after the cabal problem is fixed... at least some packages ftbfs because of that... i bet many of them would build fine otherwise
[03:01] <jdong> so was BBR ever present in Ubuntu kernels?
[03:06] <slomo_> lamont: please read what i've written above when you're back...
[03:08] <crimsun> jdong: not in Breezy afaict
[03:09] <netdur> thank you very for packading deskbar
[03:19] <jdong> crimsun: any reason why not? (part of EVMS patchset)
[03:20] <crimsun> jdong: I don't know.
[03:31] <infinity> mdz : Everything was up to date when the CD builds were done, Kamion and I made sure of it.
[03:31] <mdz> infinity: thanks
[03:32] <infinity> mdz : Also, can you flex some ftp-master mojo to remove haskell-cabal and its binaries from breezy?...
[03:41] <sistpoty> infinity: thx for asking this... apparently slomos "fix" ftbfs'd 
[03:41] <infinity> sistpoty : That's because it build-depended on a version of ghc6 no longer in the archive.
[03:42] <sistpoty> infinity: i just saw it... only reason was to avoid further buildd-breakage ;)
[03:43] <mdz> infinity: that's a bit beyond my comfort level; perhaps it can wait until tomorrow when elmo returns
[03:44] <infinity> mdz : Alright, then I'll make sure to break it properly, if the last upload hasn't already done that. :)
[03:44] <sistpoty> hehe
[03:55] <whiprush> infinity: so, I'm totally paraphrasing something you mentioned during a bof at udu for my blog post.
[03:56] <whiprush> don't worry, it's all good.
[03:57] <infinity> Oh man, quoting me is never a good idea.
[03:57] <whiprush> heh
[04:00] <whiprush> infinity: ugh, on top of that I'm having a hard time remembering what you said
[04:00] <whiprush> I think I got the general idea though.
[04:01] <infinity> In relation to?
[04:01] <whiprush> well ... 
[04:01] <whiprush> meh just give me a minute.
[04:02] <whiprush> I'm running breezy samba clients and printers
[04:02] <whiprush> no problems so far.
[04:02] <whiprush> 500+ machines and ~75 or so printers.
[04:02] <infinity> Oh, samba tends to work quite well for people who understand it, but I still think it's a far cry from "Just Works".
[04:03] <jsgotangco> whiprush, WOW
[04:03] <whiprush> infinity: booyah I just remembered your quote
[04:03] <infinity> Do tell.
[04:03] <jsgotangco> whiprush, it still can't do AD though, but that is trolling already :)
[04:03] <whiprush> sec.
[04:03] <infinity> AD is on its way, but I have my doubts about us having a working solution for dapper.
[04:03] <infinity> I can hope/pray, though.
[04:07] <whiprush> hmmm
[04:12] <bddebian> Kamion: around?
[04:31] <bddebian> Gnight Riddell 
[04:31] <whiprush> oh Riddell !
[04:31] <Riddell> whiprush!
[04:31] <jsgotangco> night Riddell 
[04:46] <bddebian> Heya tritium 
[04:46] <tritium> hi bddebian 
[04:54] <jsgotangco> mdz, ping?
[04:54] <mdz> jsgotangco: yes?
[04:55] <jsgotangco> mdz, can you svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/gnome/releasenotes/C/breezy-release-notes.xml for the updated release notes?
[04:56] <mdz> jsgotangco: and then do what with them?
[04:56] <jsgotangco> mdz, just review/suggest what needs to be added
[04:57] <mdz> jsgotangco: I suggest talking about "applications" or "programs" rather than "packages"
[04:57] <jsgotangco> right
[04:57] <mdz> jsgotangco: under What's New, "We've" shouldn't be capitalized
[04:58] <mdz> jsgotangco: we're up to gnome 2.12.1 now
[04:58] <mdz> jsgotangco: I suggest "Add Applications" (the name of the menu item) rather than "GNOME App Install"
[05:00] <mdz> jsgotangco: the system requirements are a little confusing; the server install is much less demanding than the desktop, but your requirements for it are greater
[05:00] <mdz> I don't think it's worthwhile to have  the "no desktop" option there, or it should be called something else
[05:01] <mdz> and moved to the end of the table
[05:01] <jsgotangco> ok
[05:02] <mdz> I wouldn't mention that a desktop can be fit into less space, since the installer doesn't make it at all straightforward to do.  we should leave that to experts who already know
[05:02] <mdz> the key description for the  server install is that it is the common base for all sorts of server applications; as such, it's minimal and designed to have the desired services added on top
[05:04] <mdz> jsgotangco: please list www.ubuntu.com/support ahead of bugzilla
[05:04] <mdz> jsgotangco: that should be users' first stop for support
[05:04] <mdz> or help->get help online
[05:05] <jsgotangco> ahh right
[05:05] <mdz> jsgotangco: in fact it might be best to separate "participation" (participate page, bugzilla, etc.) from "getting help" (ubuntu-users, IRC, forums, etc.)
[05:06] <mdz> otherwise looks good
[05:06] <jsgotangco> right the other stuff should fit in easily in a day or two
[05:07] <jsgotangco> mdz, thanks will update the doc now
[05:08] <mdz> no time to translate it, unfortunately
[05:08] <jsgotangco> yes next time we'll aim to have relesae notes for every milestone
[05:10] <mdz> we'll get better at this over time ;-)
[05:16] <fabbione> morning
[05:17] <bddebian> Hello fabbione 
[05:20] <fabbione> mdz: did you build the dvd?
[05:20] <fabbione> uh yeah i can see from the rsync
[05:20] <mdz> fabbione: yes, I've tested amd64 and am testing powerpc and i386 now
[05:20] <fabbione> ok i am rsyncing right now
[05:20] <fabbione> mdz: i also need approval for that upload
[05:21] <bddebian> Are elmo and Kamion the only ones that can let NEW stuff in to Universe? 
[05:27] <bddebian> Wow, gnome-launch-box works
[05:32] <bddebian> Would I get in trouble for uploading gnome-launch-box that was a combo of svn updates plus a user patch??
[05:33] <grayman> is there a reason why a launcher on the panel returns address not found when the same launcher on desktop opens a directory?
[05:33] <tritium> bddebian, I guess you'll have to find something else for me to fix?  ;)
[05:34] <bddebian> tritium: :-)
[05:34] <bddebian> tritium: tyvis needs love.  Or xgsmlib (unless \sh fixed it), or postgresql-plruby
[05:34] <bddebian> :)
[05:34] <tritium> that was fast ;)
[05:35] <bddebian> :-)
[05:36] <mdz> fabbione: what upload?
[05:37] <fabbione> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/changelog <-
[05:37] <fabbione> mdz: same as we discussed yesterday
[05:38] <mdz> fabbione: yesterday was a long day
[05:38] <fabbione> yeah i understand
[05:38] <mdz> fabbione: it's still not over for me :-R
[05:38] <fabbione> it just looks like i am pushing a lot
[05:38] <mdz> I don't know what kind of face that was, but it's probably accurate
[05:38] <fabbione> and i don't like that
[05:38] <fabbione> but it's also important :)
[05:38] <mdz> fabbione: I thought that was for post-RCT
[05:38] <mdz> post-RC, I mean
[05:39] <fabbione> yeah
[05:39] <fabbione> but we are post-RC, aren't we?
[05:39] <mdz> not until it's blessed
[05:39] <fabbione> or do you expect to build more CD's?
[05:39] <fabbione> ok
[05:39] <mdz> I haven't even finished one full test pass yet
[05:39] <fabbione> in anycase..
[05:39] <fabbione> is it ok after RC?
[05:39] <mdz> we need server install tests
[05:39] <mdz> and OEM tests
[05:39] <mdz> yes, perfectly OK for after RC
[05:39] <fabbione> right..
[05:39] <fabbione> ok thanks
[05:40] <mdz> go ahead and upload it; if we need a last-minute kernel change, we'll just roll that in too
[05:40] <fabbione> mdz: if you can instruct me on how to do OEM tests..
[05:40] <fabbione> roger
[05:40] <mdz> fabbione: I've never done one, but presumably there's an option in isolinux for it
[05:41] <fabbione> ok
[05:43] <fabbione> (i will still wait after RC to upload... just to be safe)
[05:46] <poningru> I had a suggestion for faster startup
[05:47] <poningru> basically load everything for X and then render a login screen
[05:47] <poningru> but as the user is typing in the username/password the other stuff is loaded in the background
[05:47] <fabbione> poningru: this is already happening
[05:47] <poningru> ?
[05:47] <poningru> it is?
[05:47] <fabbione> yes
[05:48] <poningru> docs por favor
[05:48] <poningru> err docs please
[05:48] <fabbione> check /etc/rc2.d
[05:48] <fabbione> man update-rc.d
[05:48] <poningru> hmm ok
[05:49] <poningru> oh no thats not what I meant
[05:49] <poningru> I mean even larger things
[05:49] <poningru> like network
[05:49] <poningru> or dma
[05:49] <fabbione> you can't
[05:49] <poningru> why not?
[05:50] <poningru> does X require these things?
[05:50] <infinity> poningru : Initialising the network after the user logs in may happen for dapper with network-manager.
[05:50] <fabbione> you need to have network in place before X starts
[05:50] <infinity> fabbione : Only loopback.
[05:50] <fabbione> infinity: for default install lo is ok
[05:50] <fabbione> if you need to listen on *:6000 you might have issues
[05:50] <infinity> Yes, and for non-default, people know how to munge interfaces(5)
[05:51] <infinity> But I'm hoping to kill non-lo interfaces from the "normal" boot sequence with n-m, if it can ever be made to play nicely and Not Suck.
[05:51] <infinity> At any rate.
[05:51] <poningru> so basically everything being loaded before login is what X is dependent upon?
[05:51] <infinity> poningru : You really picked the wrong week to discuss this.  Poking people about it in a week and a half would be much better, after we're through getting breezy out the door.
[05:51] <poningru> hehe true
[05:52] <bddebian> infinity: Can you look at stuff in NEW?
[05:53] <Amaranth> everytime network-manager is talked about it's either a rant about it sucking or someone saying it changed their life
[05:53] <bddebian> Amaranth: Yeah, it's like editor wars :-)
[05:54] <Amaranth> editor wars are so 1980s, we bitch about DEs these days
[05:54] <poningru> EMACS
[05:54] <poningru> DEs?
[05:54] <calc> VI!
[05:54] <poningru> sorry that was a joke
[05:54] <calc> ;)
[05:54] <poningru> :)
[05:55] <bddebian> NANO
[05:55] <calc> i can't imagine how slow emacs must have been in the 1980s
[05:55] <bddebian> Amaranth: What else is there besides xpde? ;-P
[05:55] <jmg> anyone have any suggestions for a thin client distro i can install to hard disk from cd?
[05:56] <calc> debian probably has the needed apps and can be pretty small
[05:56] <infinity> bddebian : No.
[05:56] <fabbione> mdz: i386/server (net)install is ok on 2/2 machines
[05:57] <jmg> there are plenty of thinstation etc
[05:57] <poningru> jmg: perhaps ubuntuexpress ;)
[05:58] <fabbione> mdz: i can see an oem install option on cd
[05:58] <fabbione> too bad it's not on netinstall
[06:03] <poningru> I had another question do we have a netinstall through windows thing yet?
[06:04] <mdz> i386 DVD is good, powerpc doing stage2 install
[06:04] <fabbione> no
[06:04] <poningru> fabbione: to me?
[06:04] <fabbione> poningru: yes
[06:04] <poningru> ic thanks
[06:04] <Amaranth> is there a netinstall at all?
[06:04] <fabbione> mdz: i am still rsyncing dvds
[06:04] <fabbione> Amaranth: yes
[06:04] <mdz> fabbione: did you concatenate live+install CD ISOs to seed it?
[06:05] <mdz> goes much faster that way
[06:05] <fabbione> mdz: yup
[06:05] <mdz> took about 1 hour per DVD for me
[06:05] <Amaranth> maybe i've got the wrong term here, i mean the 50MB iso thing that installs what 'server' installs and lets you do the rest
[06:05] <fabbione> yeah i started 30 minutes ago.. it'a 70% on the way
[06:05] <infinity> Amaranth : No, fabbione meant a netboot image for PXE/tftp type installs.
[06:05] <fabbione> mdz: the weekly dvd were generated 2 days ago.. so there is no much gap
[06:06] <fabbione> Amaranth: there is that one too
[06:06] <Amaranth> infinity: yeah, i figured that
[06:06] <infinity> fabbione : I thought we didn't generate official netinst ISOs?
[06:06] <fabbione> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[06:06] <fabbione> infinity: we do.. but i don't think we consider it official
[06:07] <fabbione> tho i still regularly test them
[06:07] <infinity> Oh, right, the mini.iso that d-i generates in the build.  Forgot about that one.
[06:07] <fabbione> (at least PXE boot)
[06:08] <fabbione> infinity: i do test CD only close to release.. otherwise all my installs are via network
[06:08] <fabbione> it's much faster for me given the local mirror
.. Same.
[06:09] <fabbione> i wish i had a gigabit switch
[06:09] <fabbione> but i am going to buy one for xmas
[06:09] <fabbione> today is powerbook day :)
[06:09] <poningru> funny pics
[06:09] <poningru> http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/
[06:09] <fabbione> i convinced my wife that i really really need one :)
[06:09] <poningru> oops sorry wrong channel
[06:12] <fabbione> why on earth we install xmkmf on desktop??
[06:13] <infinity> Because xutils depends on it?
[06:13] <fabbione> yeah i know that
[06:13] <fabbione> humf
[06:14] <fabbione> that's sort of lame
[06:14] <fabbione> i guess xutils depends on it to preserve upgrades
[06:14] <infinity> Yeah, we're pulling in a lot of modular stuff that I'd rather not for the sake of upgrades.
[06:14] <infinity> Such is life.
[06:15] <Sepheebear> poningru:  that was hilarious
[06:15] <fabbione> it's clearly too late for breezy
[06:15] <fabbione> but there should be a new field for dpkg called Depends: foo [if-available] 
[06:15] <fabbione> that will force install of foo if it's there
[06:15] <fabbione> otherwise skip it
[06:16] <fabbione> that would give us the option to create a meta-package
[06:16] <fabbione> that can depends on all pkgs required for upgrades
[06:16] <fabbione> but that we can keep away from cd
[06:16] <fabbione> so old crack isn't pulled in
[06:16] <fabbione> (if that makes any sense)
[06:16] <infinity> This could be handled by the "pre-upgrade hooks" mvo and I discussed a few weeks back.
[06:17] <poningru> Sepheebear: you should join us in #ubuntu-offtopic
[06:17] <infinity> Of course, it's too late to get pre-upgrade hooks into the breezy versions of synaptic/update-manager
[06:17] <infinity> Which kinda sucks.
[06:17] <fabbione> well we will get it for dapper
[06:17] <infinity> Yes, but that means we can't use them for breezy -> dapper.
[06:17] <infinity> But oh well.  Life rumbles on.
[06:18] <fabbione> infinity: none of us has 48 hours per day
[06:18] <fabbione> ;)
[06:18] <infinity> Well, I gave up sleep a few weeks ago and discovered I had 24h/day.
[06:18] <fabbione> infinity: ahhaha
[06:18] <infinity> Until that stopped working, I crashed hard, and had about 3 hours in a day, and 21 hours of sleep.
[06:19] <fabbione> infinity: i have been there.. 10 years ago
[06:19] <fabbione> but i did crash for 3 hours after a week
[06:19] <fabbione> then decided it was not worth sleeping to get sober and went out to the disco for another 2 days in a raw
[06:20] <infinity> I wish my PPC machine booted from CD, so I could test there.
[06:22] <fabbione> infinity: what ppc do you have?
[06:23] <infinity> Riced-up OldWorld.
[06:23] <fabbione> ok
[06:23] <infinity> (Ancient beige G3 with a 1GHz 750GX upgrade)
[06:23] <fabbione> ehhe
[06:23] <infinity> Fast, but fast doesn't magically make openfirmware 2.4 stop sucking.
[06:23] <fabbione> yeah
[06:24] <fabbione> i will start discovering the ppc world soon :)
[06:24] <fabbione> so i can start claiming to have 4/6 arches :)
[06:24] <fabbione> (in ubuntu at least)
[06:24] <fabbione> might soon get ia64 and hppa too
[06:25] <fabbione> infinity: should we still consider that micro-ubuntu bof for arm/m68k?
[06:25] <infinity> parisc machine are cheap and plentiful on eBay.  Sadly, no one seems to eBay them in Australia, and I don't want to pay overseas shipping on one of those beasts.
[06:25] <infinity> Even the "small" machines (C200, etc) are heavy as all get out.
[06:25] <fabbione> infinity: yeah.. 
[06:26] <infinity> fabbione : It might be nice to sit down and draw up some quick ideas/plans, but I wouldn't dedicate more than a session to it, cause a real microbuntu with a small/embedded libc is probably not doable for dapper anyway.
[06:26] <infinity> I wouldn't mind starting to bootstrap it for fun, though.
[06:27] <fabbione> infinity: i am not that sure.. we have klibc that's pretty small
[06:28] <infinity> fabbione : OTOH, the "slightly less micro buntu" idea (glibc-based, but really, really cut down installaiton footprint) is probably doable.
[06:28] <fabbione> infinity: yeah let's sit and talk abou tit
[06:28] <fabbione> i would love to get these 2 m68k up again for something cool
[06:28] <fabbione> and testing would be an interesting thing
[06:29] <infinity> Well, with all the d-i work smarenka has put into m68k in the last 2 years, m68k is much less of an adventure than it used to be.
[06:29] <infinity> It now works so well that it just feels like a mid-range Pentium system that "just works"...
[06:30] <fabbione> ahah
[06:33] <fabbione> mdz: i386/oem cd install is good here.
[06:33] <mdz> fabbione: yay
[06:33] <fabbione> one minor detail that i am going to check again
[06:33] <mdz> ppc dvd install is almost complete
[06:33] <fabbione> the oem installer didn't ask me my location properly
[06:33] <fabbione> in gfx mode when you select in what country you are in.. i select "others"
[06:34] <mdz> jdub: did you find out what's up with the list archives?
[06:34] <fabbione> but i didn't see the extra prompt for "-> Europe -> Denmark"
[06:34] <fabbione> tho it still gets it right from d-i
[06:36] <fabbione> brb
[06:48] <mvo> mdz: I'm answering to your various questions on open bz bugs now, do you want some sort of message or will you read it on ubuntu-bugs?
[06:48] <lamont> Mithrandir: awake yet?
[06:50] <fabbione> bah rsync connections are slowing down to death!
[06:51] <fabbione> GOOD MORNING EUROPE
[06:51] <lamont> hrm.. that reminds me.. need to file my implicit defn bugs
[06:56] <mdz> mvo: I read ubuntu-bugs
[07:24] <fabbione> mdz: dvd live/i386 looks good.. 
[07:24] <fabbione> installing now
[07:24] <fabbione> but i think we have everything ok by now
[07:24] <mdz> I'm 12/12 with the caveats mentioned in my -devel post
[07:28] <fabbione> oh i forgot to mention.. i did also try install on LVM in some of the stages
[07:28] <fabbione> well anyway you got a reply
[07:33] <fabbione> mdz: re #17018.. libxft1 was not in hoary either.. they must had it around from warty
[07:34] <fabbione> tho it's possible to repackage it..
[07:36] <ajmitch> fabbione: maybe for universe?
[07:37] <fabbione> ajmitch: for sure not main
[07:39] <mdz> fabbione: it's in the Binary field for xfree86 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu26, which was in hoary
[07:40] <fabbione> mdz: hmmm it shouldn't...
[07:41] <fabbione> because the last xfree86 upload had only the server
[07:41] <daniels> libxft1 used to exist, yes, but libxft-dev has not existed for years
[07:41] <fabbione> daniels: right..
[07:41] <infinity> I assume these matlab packages are binary-only.
[07:41] <fabbione> and we shouldn't resurrect the -dev at all
[07:41] <fabbione> just the lib
[07:41] <fabbione> daniels: Xft1 is not autotooled.. but it builds fine using imake & Co.
[07:42] <fabbione> daniels: i guess i am going to create a source package out of lib/Xft1
[07:42] <fabbione> but absolutely no -dev
[07:42] <fabbione> it has to die
[07:44] <daniels> is it worth packaging?
[07:44] <infinity> matlab is pretty heavily used in certain fields.
[07:44] <infinity> Of course, some bizdev folks hitting up mathworks and suggesting they should rebuild their binaries to not require the library would be good too.
[07:45] <infinity> (but not likely to happen in a week)
[07:45] <fabbione> daniels: yeah well it's an easy pkg to do
[07:45] <daniels> all yours if you want it
[07:45] <fabbione> + what infinity said
[07:45] <fabbione> daniels: yeah i will do it
[07:46] <fabbione> daniels: did you decide what to do with mkdirhier?
[07:47] <daniels> mdz: ping
[07:47] <daniels> fabbione: not yet, although now mdz and I are actually around at the same time, maybe something can come of it
[07:49] <Mithrandir> lamont: awake now
[08:06] <mdz> daniels: yes?
[08:07] <daniels> mdz: did you get my comments over the past few days about mkdirhier?
[08:07] <mdz> daniels: I heard from you that you think we don't need it, and from a user that he does need it
[08:08] <daniels> that his custom scripts use it, yes.
[08:08] <daniels> my contention being that a separate package for a shell script that does something posix-compliant versions of mkdir do anyway is pointless overkill.
[08:10] <daniels> so, I'd appreciate your final word on whether or not we need a separate package for mkdir -p.
[08:10] <mdz> no, I don't think we need a separate package
[08:10] <mdz> but we shouldn't assume that it's OK to silently drop it
[08:12] <daniels> i think that this is an extreme case; it's a reimplementation of a feature of POSIX mkdir.
[08:12] <mdz> it could have been written and added back to xutils in the time you've spent talking about it
[08:13] <infinity> Just sneak it into the xmkmf package or something, and call it done.
[08:13] <daniels> isn't xutils a dummy package?
[08:13] <mdz> yes, currently it only contains copyright and changelog
[08:14] <mdz> daniels: any progress on that xkb bug?
[08:16] <fabbione> mdz: permission to upload libxft1 (only the library, no -dev or -dbg)
[08:16] <fabbione> mdz: it has to stay in universe..
[08:16] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[08:16] <pitti> Morning
[08:16] <mdz> as we discussed
[08:16] <fabbione> because we want to get rid of it
[08:16] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[08:16] <fabbione> infinity: i tend to agree on that
[08:17] <fabbione> or even imake
[08:17] <mdz> daniels: that is, of course, a higher priority
[08:18] <fabbione> mdz: done
[08:19] <infinity> fabbione : Nah, imake is a single binary with a reasonably specific purpose, xmkmf claims to be a "build system" which is nice and meaningless, and the perfect place to toss extra useless shell scripts. :)
[08:19] <daniels> mdz: no, I've not looked at that XKB bug at all
[08:20] <daniels> mdz: i've fixed others, however (as you saw, given I assume it was you that approved xk-c)
[08:20] <fabbione> xmkmf is used only to generate Makefile out of Imakefile :)
[08:20] <fabbione> sort of an imake wrapper
[08:21] <fabbione> well it's all the same crack anyway
[08:21] <bob2> that's sick
[08:21] <fabbione> bob2: not really..
[08:21] <mdz> daniels: beg your pardon?  I what?
[08:22] <infinity> mdz : Should I work on a post-RC lrm upload to make the -src packages actually work?
[08:23] <mdz> infinity: how bad is it?
[08:23] <infinity> mdz : Well, I think #17071 sums it up nicely.
[08:23] <daniels> mdz: they don't work full stop, and never really have.
[08:23] <mdz> I thought they were in universe, but apparently not
[08:23] <infinity> mdz : They look to be effectively useless currently.
[08:23] <infinity> They should be in multiverse, if they're not.
[08:23] <fabbione> restricted you mean
[08:24] <mdz> if they've never worked since hoary and no one noticed until now, we can do without them for breezy too
[08:24] <infinity> I see no reason to support that in main/restricted.
[08:24] <infinity> fabbione : No, I mean multiverse.  ie: they should be demoted.
[08:24] <infinity> daniels : Oh, they were just as broken in hoary?
[08:24] <fabbione> infinity: oh right
[08:24] <infinity> mdz : Okay, if it's not a regression, I'm happy with fixing it all up for dapper.
[08:24] <mdz> infinity: please verify that it's broken in hoary before giving up on it
[08:24] <infinity> mdz : I'd be all for demoting the -source stuff to multiverse, though.
[08:25] <daniels> infinity: yes
[08:25] <daniels> infinity: and just as broken in warty
[08:25] <daniels> one person appears each release cycle and bitches about it
[08:25] <lifeless> day before release?
[08:25] <infinity> Apparently so.
[08:25] <daniels> no, usually about halfway through, to be fair
[08:25] <infinity> daniels : This one was yesterday. :)
[08:25] <infinity> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17071
[08:26] <mdz> daniels: this xkeyboard-config upload which is sitting in accepted doesn't have any bug numbers in it; which ones does it fix?
[08:26] <infinity> mdz : I'll grab a hoary CD and see if the breakage there is similar enough to call it "pretty much just as bad".
[08:26] <infinity> In breezy, it looks to be 12 kinds of bad.
[08:28] <daniels> mdz: 'none'
[08:28] <daniels> mdz: several reports on irc and lists.  it's also demonstratably correct.
[08:28] <daniels> i don't think the breakage pattern has actually changed since warty
[08:29] <daniels> (breakage pattern -> for fglrx source and probably nvidia too)
[08:41] <fabbione> mdz: what install do we need to test more?
[08:41] <fabbione> imho we did cover everything
[08:41] <mdz> fabbione: only what I already mentioned on the list
[08:41] <mdz> Kamion may have one or two cases he wants to check
[08:42] <fabbione> yeah but i did test OEM and server installs
[08:42] <fabbione> so there is not much left to do
[08:42] <mdz> yes, I saw
[08:42] <daniels> mdz: three-level layouts without any kind of level 3 switch are as good as useless, if not work (being that a us layout is more useful)
[08:42] <daniels> s/work/worse/
[08:43] <mdz> daniels: what does that mean in the context of this being a regression from hoary?
[08:45] <infinity> Hrm, are restricted/multiverse not seeded like main/universe?
[08:45] <mdz> assuming you're talking about 15372
[08:45] <daniels> mdz: it means that it's a regression from hoary, and that there's a fix uploaded
[08:45] <mdz> infinity: they're overridden by hand by elmo I think
[08:45] <daniels> mdz: 15372 is a clusterfuck regression from hoary
[08:46] <infinity> mdz : Ahh.  Would explain it.  Would you have any objections to dropping the -source packages to multiverse?
[08:46] <daniels> mdz: my current thoughts on that are just to force alts_toggle to ctrls_toggle and remove alts_toggle from being selected
[08:46] <mdz> infinity: no
[08:46] <infinity> Kay, I'll poke elmo about it when he gets back, then.
[08:47] <mdz> I believe he's due back today
[08:47] <daniels> mdz: if I 'fix' the alts_toggle stuff, then we won't have any xkb-related hoary regressions that I know of
[08:48] <mdz> daniels: what would alts_toggle->ctrls_toggle do?  wouldn't that result in a different layout from hoary?
[08:48] <daniels> mdz: yes
[08:48] <daniels> mdz: alts_toggle -> switch between layouts by holding down both alt keys.  ctrls_toggle -> switch between layouts by holding down both ctrl keys.
[08:49] <daniels> it's simply too late to come up with a proper, auditable, fix that I know won't break other stuff.
[08:49] <infinity> mdz : Okay, I just extracted the tarball from the hoary fglrx-kernel-source and looked at it; it's broken in exactly the same ways, so this is no regression, just an unfortunate maintenance of the status quo.
[08:49] <mdz> infinity: to multiverse with them
[08:50] <maswan> Whee. I'm walking in through the building on my way to my office, and out in the corridor on a table I suddenly see a stack of Ubuntu CDs. :)
[08:51] <infinity> maswan : hoary CDs?... Just in time for them to become obsolete? :)
[08:51] <maswan> infinity: I guess, I didn't check though. :)
[08:52] <hunger> infinity: Well, you can install them and upgrade.
[08:52] <maswan> infinity: they had people on the front. :P
[08:53] <pitti> doko: argh, did you recently change the name of libstdc++6-0? jigdo-file got uninstallable
[09:02] <sivang> Morning all!
[09:02] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[09:12] <pitti> mdz: permission to upload a no-change jigdo to rebuild against the current libstdc++ and make the package installable again?
[09:12] <mdz> pitti: jigdo is in universe
[09:12] <pitti> mdz: right
[09:13] <pitti> mdz: we don't need to ask for universe?
[09:13] <pitti> ah, ok
[09:13] <torkel> maswan: where are they? :-)
[09:13] <pitti> mdz: I need jigdo for testing CD images :-)
[09:15] <siretart> from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/weekly-dvd/current/breezy-dvd-i386.list I see that fglrx is missing. is this on purpose?
[09:15] <siretart> nvidia is there, after all.. hmm
[09:16] <mdz> fglrx has never been on the CD
[09:16] <infinity> nvidia is in the ship seed for multiseat, according to the comment in the seeds.
[09:16] <infinity> Not sure what that comment means when expanded. :)
[09:17] <siretart> aah. okay, this explains..
[09:17] <infinity> pitti : Erm, jigdo is built against the latest C++ ABI here..
[09:17] <siretart> mdz: wouldn't that be an option for the dvd?
[09:17] <daniels> if we're not promoting fglrx, we should demote nvidia
[09:17] <daniels> it would free up a ton of space on the cd
[09:17] <pitti> infinity: Depends: wget, libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libdb4.2, libgcc1 (>= 1:3.4.1-3), libstdc++6-0 (>= 3.4.1-3), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)
[09:17] <pitti> infinity: and libstdc++6-0 does not exist
[09:17] <infinity> Depends: wget, libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libdb4.2, libgcc1 (>= 1:3.4.1-3), libstdc++6 (>= 3.4.1-3), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)
[09:17] <infinity> powerpc, I guess?
[09:17] <daniels> mdz: ^^ recommend nvidia for demotion from ship
[09:17] <pitti> infinity: amd64
[09:18] <infinity> Ahh, yeah.
[09:18] <pitti> infinity: a local rebuild worked perfectly
[09:18] <infinity> pitti : Please rebuild then. :)
[09:18] <pitti> infinity: already happened :-)
[09:18] <mdz> daniels: why?  does multiseat no longer need it,  or is multiseat broken by the new l-r-m?
[09:18] <infinity> mdz : Installs on my i386 laptop and amd64 desktop went smoothly.
[09:18] <mdz> infinity: thanks
[09:20] <fabbione> pitti: that was really mandatory
[09:21] <pitti> fabbione: I know :-/
[09:21] <fabbione> there were people overabusing rsync with 10 connections at the same time
[09:21] <pitti> fabbione: ah, I'll ssh to chinstrap and rsync from there :-)
[09:22] <fabbione> that would work too
[09:23] <pitti> Hey Seberino
[09:23] <pitti> mdz: which tests are required most urgently? desktop, server, or OEM?
[09:23] <seb128> hey Martin
[09:24] <seb128> pitti: you can download again? :)
[09:24] <mdz> seb128: I noticed in my tests that the network monitor applet was missing from the panel in some cases; do you know why that might be?
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: yes, my network is back
[09:24] <mdz> pitti: yes :-)
[09:24] <seb128> mdz: nop, read that on your mail, I'll have a look
[09:25] <pitti> mdz: I interpret this as "I should do all at once" :-)
[09:32] <mdz> infinity: we should flush the amd64 cloop after RC goes out
[09:33] <mdz> hopefully it will shrink
[09:33] <mdz> currently all 3 live CDs are oversized; we have some new and smaller WinFOSS which may help but we may need to squeeze a little harder
[09:33] <jordi> mdz: hey
[09:34] <Treenaks> lzip ;)
[09:34] <seb128> mdz: so the laptop config has the applet but not the desktop config
[09:34] <seb128> mdz: I'll fix that now
[09:34] <jordi> mdz: if locales ended up not changing, how slim are the chances of updating belocs-locales-data in universe instead?
[09:34] <mdz> seb128: that explains it
[09:34] <mdz> jordi: universe is entirely unfrozen
[09:34] <jordi> That would help the Kurdish guys a bit, even if they had to rely on a universe package to operate in Kurdish
[09:35] <jordi> mdz: ie, I can ask for a sync right away?
[09:35] <mdz> jordi: I haven't said no to a glibc update after RC
[09:35] <jordi> mdz: I mean universe-for-breezy
[09:35] <mdz> jordi: no one has sent me a diff yet
[09:35] <seb128> mdz: would an update of gnome-screensaver to universe considered a bad idea?
[09:35] <jordi> mdz: I'm talking about alternatives.
[09:35] <jordi> just in case
[09:35] <mdz> seb128: I've no problem with it
[09:35] <jordi> mdz: I'll get jbailey to send one as soon as he rises
[09:35] <seb128> mdz: cool, thanks
[09:36] <mdz> jordi: if it is only adding a new locale, and not modifying existing ones, then I am unlikely to take issue with it
[09:36] <jordi> mdz: ack
[09:36] <infinity> seb128 : Err, I thought the lack of network applet in the desktop config was intentional, since desktops don't tend to have networks come and go much.
[09:36] <seb128> mdz: should I mail you Cc: Kamion on my uploads, after candidate, to describe the fixes/with a debdiff of the changes?
[09:37] <seb128> infinity: how was hoary? I'm not sure now
[09:37] <mdz> seb128: for main?  that would be helpfuul
[09:37] <seb128> mdz: k, will do
[09:37] <infinity> Neither am I... Grab the relevant deb and peek inside? :)
[09:37] <seb128> yeah
[09:37] <mdz> seb128: if you have them prepared already, go ahead and send
[09:37] <seb128> mdz: read what infinity just said?
[09:38] <mdz> I don't see any reason why it should be different
[09:38] <mdz> infinity: this is the network monitor applet, not netapplet or network-managre
[09:38] <mdz> it doesn't actually do anything as far as interface configuration, it just goes blinky blink
[09:39] <infinity> mdz : yeah, I know.  But there's not much to monitor on a (generally) wired network that doesn't change.
[09:39] <infinity> Sure, some desktop are more laptop-like with a wireless interface and such, but that's a rare case.
[09:39] <mdz> infinity: it has activity like any other network; that's all the applet shows
[09:39] <infinity> Well, it also shows wireless connectivity and signal strength and such, which is the more useful reason to have it on the panel.
[09:39] <infinity> If I didn't have wireless, I'd disable the applet here.
[09:39] <mdz> oh, right, that's the same applet
[09:40] <mdz> agreed then
[09:40] <mdz> it's just a nuisance on the desktop
[09:40] <seb128> k
[09:40] <mdz> it's rather a nuisance on my laptop, too, since it's usually wired
[09:40] <seb128> so NOTABUG :)
[09:40] <mdz> but if we need to accept the annoying wired display in order to get the wireless display, so be it
[09:41] <mdz> jordi: you can request syncs (or make uploads) to universe at any time until the MOTU team says no more (if they do at all)
[09:42] <jordi> mdz: nod
[09:42] <jordi> so, can anyone sync belocs-locales-* from unstable?
[09:43] <mdz> jordi:  the procedure is to mail elmo and tell him which version of the package to sync
[09:43] <jordi> ok. IRC has worked all the time before though :)
[09:43] <pitti> jordi: wait
[09:43] <pitti> jordi: did unstable add the install/remove-language-locales scripts?
[09:43] <jordi> pitti: AFAICT, yes.
[09:43] <pitti> jordi: ah, ok
[09:43] <jordi> let me check.
[09:44] <pitti> jordi: because the Debian maintainer said to me he didn't want to do that
[09:44] <mdz> carlos,pitti: what's the latest story on langpacks?
[09:45] <mdz> someone was reporting earlier that they saw regressions in translations
[09:45] <mdz> Oct 05 17:21:12 <Surak> some strings reverted these days. Like screensaver is written in pt-pt when the rest of the system is pt_BR
[09:45] <pitti> mdz: current packs look fine and yesterday I set up automatic merged tarball generation
[09:45] <pitti> mdz: oh, I missed that, let me check
[09:45] <mdz> pitti: why do we need a merge?  are the exports still incomplete?
[09:46] <pitti> mdz: yes, Rosetta currently exports only 40% of main translations
[09:46] <mdz> pitti: why?
[09:46] <pitti> mdz: so I merge them with my buildd downloads
[09:46] <pitti> mdz: no idea, apparently their import logic is still flawed
[09:46] <pitti> mdz: carlos said that they have a new algorithm that works much better, but it's not in production yet
[09:47] <mdz> carlos: when can we have complete exports?
[09:47] <carlos> mdz, seems like the problem there is that the pt_BR was not imported into Rosetta
[09:47] <carlos> mdz, so the gettext algorithm gets the pt translations 
[09:48] <carlos> mdz, I will take a look to know where is the problem there
[09:48] <pitti> carlos: humm, but then we shuold have the buildd pt_BR
[09:48] <pitti> carlos: was there an empty pt_BR in Rosetta? or an old one?
[09:48] <carlos> pitti, could be that we have an empty one... seems like the import failed and thus the export produced an empty file
[09:49] <carlos> mdz, it will take sometime as there are a lot of templates to rename, I'm fixing the code to let Jordi help me with that task
[09:50] <pitti> carlos: why do you need to rename templates?
[09:52] <jordi> because "review-breeze-1" isn't the best name :)
[09:52] <carlos> pitti, as I told you yesterday, if the import script was not able to guess a good translation domain, we set it to review-breezy-*
[09:52] <pitti> seb128: darn, it seems my ISP still has trouble - I get no more than 20 kB/s downstream *grumble*
[09:52] <pitti> carlos: "guess"???
[09:52] <pitti> carlos: ah, you don't use the .mo files yet? I remember...
[09:52] <carlos> pitti, I use them
[09:53] <carlos> but sometimes the .mo files are missing
[09:53] <pitti> carlos: please tell me if that is still the case; it should be fixed now
[09:53] <carlos> or we have one .mo file and several directories with .po files
[09:53] <carlos> pitti, for instance, gtk+ has that problem
[09:54] <pitti> carlos: yes, for this case I need manual overrides, too
[09:54] <pitti> carlos: but I only need to override some 30 source packages, not more
[09:54] <carlos> we have two translation domains, so we get two different .mo files but we have multiple times those domains as po files
[09:55] <carlos> pitti, Again, I now we have a design problem there, and I'm fixing it, it's too late to fix that for breezy, that's why I'm wotking on a new approach for that
[09:55] <fabbione> maswan: ping?
[09:55] <pitti> jordi: the Debian changelog of b-l-data does not tell anything about the scripts
[09:55] <pitti> jordi: so please merge, don't sync
[09:55] <carlos> pitti, another issue is the tarballs that use a build directory that depend on tha package version
[09:56] <carlos> because we use the path too as a way to guess the right translation domain
[09:56] <pitti> jordi: belocs-locales-bin should be fine, though
[09:56] <pitti> jordi: (syncing)
[09:57] <pitti> jordi: if you are at it, maybe the scripts make more sense in -bin anyway
[09:59] <jordi> pitti: I'm not at it, no
[09:59] <pitti> infinity: bah, jigdo failed on i386 on installation of Setting up libghc6-cabal-dev
[09:59] <jordi> I mean, I'm not in the belocs team
[09:59] <maswan> fabbione: pong
[09:59] <infinity> pitti : Oh, right, I need to go clean up those chroots.  Thanks. :)
[09:59] <pitti> infinity: is that a known broken package? or a chroot issue?
[09:59] <pitti> infinity: ah, ok
[10:00] <infinity> pitti : I'll rebuild it in a sec for you.
[10:00] <infinity> pitti : Which buildd was that?
[10:00] <pitti> infinity: vernadsky
[10:00] <infinity> Danke.
[10:00] <fabbione> maswan: do you happen to remember what kind of processors are installed on buttercup?
[10:00] <pitti> infinity: well, the current i386 version is fine  anyway, so not urgent :-)
[10:01] <infinity> It's urgent for me.  With no uploading happening, now is the ideal time to make sure everything's squeaky clean again. :)
[10:01] <maswan> fabbione: hmm.. not offhand, I'll take a look
[10:01] <fabbione> maswan: thanks
[10:02] <fabbione> maswan: if they are Sparc IIIi processors we know why they were crashing and we will have a fix tomorrow
[10:02] <maswan>   The sparcv9 processor operates at 400 MHz,
[10:02] <maswan> II
[10:02] <fabbione> i recall different infos from /proc/cpuinfo
[10:02] <fabbione> but ok
[10:02] <fabbione> than it might not be the same problem
[10:03] <fabbione> basically there is a user page corrupts on heavy load that affects only certain CPUs
[10:03] <fabbione> it might as well affect that one too
[10:05] <maswan> ok
[10:05] <maswan> we can go back to linux then in a few days to try
[10:06] <doko> pitti: libstdc++6-0 was dropped in May ...
[10:06] <fabbione> maswan: sure..
[10:06] <fabbione> that'd be great
[10:07] <pitti> doko: I did a rebuild to make it work again. Odd though, probably I still had the old package in my apt cache
[10:07] <pitti> doko: since I successfuly installed it two weeks ago
[10:08] <fab-ltsp> mdz: ltsp install 100% success
[10:08] <fab-ltsp> the howto seems pretty complete
[10:09] <carlos> mdz, pitti latest pt_BR.po file from ubuntu's archive has 0 translations
[10:09] <carlos> mdz, pitti so I don't think we have any regression...
[10:10] <carlos> unless jwz broke it with latest release...
[10:10] <pitti> carlos: maybe the guy mixed up gnome-screensaver and xscreensaver?
[10:10] <dholbach> good morning
[10:10] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[10:10] <carlos> carlos@rookery:/home/lamont/public_html/translations/temp/source/po $ msgfmt pt_BR.po -v --statistics -o /dev/null
[10:10] <carlos> 0 translated messages, 11 fuzzy translations, 1698 untranslated messages.
[10:10] <pitti> dholbach: btw, what happened to "Hellas"?
[10:10] <dholbach> hey martin :)
[10:10] <dholbach> pitti: it's not every day that i'm in a greek mood :)
[10:11] <carlos> pitti, let me check gnome-screensaver...
[10:12] <carlos> pitti, I doubt it, gnome-screensaver has translations for pt_BR but there are not translations for pt so the regression is not possible unless someone is translating into pt_PT using pt_BR
[10:12] <pitti> carlos: ok, so the regression is in the package itself
[10:12] <pitti> carlos: thanks for checking
[10:12] <seb128> hey dholbach carlos 
[10:12] <carlos> pitti, I think so, yes
[10:13] <carlos> seb128, hi
[10:14] <seb128> carlos: this is not a main package
[10:15] <carlos> gnome-screensaver?
[10:15] <seb128> yep
[10:16] <seb128> it has been demoted to universe for the moment
[10:16] <seb128> not sure if that makes a difference for you
[10:16] <carlos> seb128, not for me but for language packs
[10:23] <mdz> Kamion: awake?
[10:25] <zyga> morning guys
[10:26] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[10:26] <mdz> draft RC announcement at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftBreezyRCAnnouncement (proofreading and feedback welcome)
[10:27] <mhz> hi
[10:27] <zyga> pitti: hacking on language packs :)
[10:28] <mhz> could someone see my dhcpd.conf and tell me what is I am doing wrong, please?
[10:28] <mhz> I got ltsp running, tftp running, but dhcp.
[10:30] <fabbione> mhz: check /etc/defaults/dhcpd
[10:30] <pitti> mdz: just read the announcement - maybe it is worth mentioning that we now use Rosetta translations?
[10:30] <fabbione> and see if it is configured to listen on the correct interface
[10:31] <mhz> fabbione: it's set ok
[10:33] <zyga> mdz 
[10:33] <zyga> mdz:   * The second stage of the installation now has a progress bar
[10:33] <mhz> var/log/syslog says it is not configured to listen, but ltspcfg says it is :(
[10:33] <zyga> mdz: this is really not interesting to many people IMHO, it's too technical
[10:33] <mdz> pitti: yes, please add it
[10:33] <Treenaks> mhz: do you have a weird network setup with multiple network interfaces?
[10:33] <jsgotangco> zyga, for a release notes POV, its a new feature =)
[10:34] <mdz> zyga: it's a significant usability improvement
[10:34] <infinity> mhz : What else does syslog have to say?
[10:34] <mhz> Treenaks: only eth0 and eth1 plus a dlink router
[10:34] <zyga> mdz: then perhaps it could be re-worded to sound like such
[10:34] <mdz> zyga: for example?
[10:34] <zyga> mdz: new progress indicator will tell you how long the install is going to take, yada yada
[10:34] <infinity> mhz : Anything like "no subnet declarations found for ethX"?
[10:34] <mdz> zyga: it doesn't do that
[10:35] <zyga> hmm :D
[10:35] <zyga> mdz: maybe we should display cheerful messages while the installer is running ;-)
[10:35] <mhz> infinity: not now, but it did
[10:35] <doko> mdz: add python-2.4.2 (and plone-2.1) to the announcement?
[10:35] <jsgotangco> zyga, a fortune cookie
[10:35] <mdz> doko: yes, please do
[10:35] <Treenaks> zyga: yeah, like the "New Features" ads during Windows installations
[10:36] <zyga> jsgotangco: including porn and politically-incorrect fortune cookies
[10:36] <mdz> jsgotangco: will you fold these changes from the RC announcement into the release notes?
[10:36] <zyga> ;-)
[10:36] <jsgotangco> mdz, yup looking at the changes now
[10:36] <mdz> jsgotangco: thanks
[10:36] <zyga> Treenaks: silly as that may sound IMHO it was a *good* feature
[10:36] <zyga> Treenaks: imagine mom and dad installing their brand new ubuntu system
[10:37] <Treenaks> zyga: not for breezy, though
[10:37] <infinity> mhz : Just sounds like a broken config, then.  Can you post it somewhere, or paste it on pastebin or something?
[10:37] <mhz> infinity: ltsp generated a dhcpd.conf that it looked very good so i used that.
[10:41] <fabbione> mdz: the announce looks ok to my itaglish
[10:42] <doko> mdz: the windows programs on the i386 dvd seem to be outdated
[10:45] <infinity> doko : We used the wrong tarball (apparently)
[10:46] <infinity> doko : The newer one is both newer (one hopes), and a bit smaller.
[10:46] <doko> infinity: fine, if it's known
[10:48] <doko> infinity: is there a "main" HTML page, which I can open with a browser?
[10:48] <doko> on the DVD?
[10:49] <infinity> Not sure....
[10:51] <sivang> Mithrandir: where are your deinotified kernels you rolled for #15571 ?
[10:52] <Mithrandir> sivang: on the buildd, I haven't pulled them out yet.  Are you able to reproduce the problem?
[10:55] <sivang> Mithrandir: I am with my Dell Inspirion ATA100 laptop, I reduced all the GNOME fancy stuff to minimum, and got a bit better on GUI responsivness, yet from time to time it pains me with performance stops
[10:56] <mdz> doko: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17125
[10:56] <sivang> Mithrandir: After noticing disk access, I think it's the same issue
[10:57] <Mithrandir> sivang: excellent! I'll get you the kernels in a few seconds.
[10:59] <Mithrandir> sivang: http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/noinotify/
[10:59] <bob2> does anything use inotify in breezy, by default?
[11:00] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if that works.. fix userland later :)
[11:00] <fabbione> bob2: gamin
[11:00] <bob2> hah
[11:00] <Mithrandir> sivang: if you could test those, I'd be grateful
[11:02] <sivang> Mithrandir: I will do that as soon I get home, that issue has been killing my hacking performance for a week :)
[11:02] <Mithrandir> sivang: ook.  Ping me when you have something
[11:02] <sivang> Mithrandir: sure
[11:02] <Kamion> mdz: still awake?
[11:02] <Kamion> morning all
[11:03] <seb128> hi Kamion 
[11:03] <mdz> Kamion: yep
[11:03] <mdz> Kamion: is this your idea of an early start? ;-P
[11:03] <sivang> morning Kamion 
[11:03] <mdz> Kamion: I thought you had a few more tests you wanted to do
[11:03] <Kamion> mdz: not really - I'd've liked to be up earlier, but my body rebelled
[11:03] <sivang> Mithrandir: I need to use only linux-image* right? (there are several other files there)
[11:03] <pitti> Hi Kamion 
[11:03] <Mithrandir> sivang: the linux-image should be enough, yes.
[11:04] <Kamion> mdz: pre-publishing just in .pool - even if we have to change, the rsync diff will be small
[11:04] <mdz> Kamion: the LWE awards dinner sounded like a good scene ;-)
[11:04] <mdz> Kamion: ok, sounds good
[11:04] <mdz> Kamion: what's the procedure for pre-publishing?
[11:05] <sivang> pitti: I didn't know you can track build logs by maintainer :)
[11:05] <pitti> sivang: you can't
[11:05] <Kamion> mdz: $ publish-release daily 20051005.1 install poolonly rc
[11:05] <pitti> sivang: but ogra's page is nice to track the current builds
[11:06] <Kamion> mdz: see cdimage/README
[11:06] <sivang> pitti: I wonder how does he do that :)
[11:06] <pitti> sivang: you mean so many failutes?
[11:06] <mdz> Kamion: does that trigger any mirrors?
[11:06] <pitti> sivang: probably just a glitch in the build log upload
[11:07] <Kamion> mdz: publish-release never triggers mirrors; you have to sanity-check the results and then run sync-mirrors
[11:08] <mdz> Kamion: I mean, do we have the ability to trigger some external mirrors, or do we need to wait for them?
[11:09] <Kamion> mdz: I believe .us and .se are triggered automatically when syncproxy updates (syncproxy is triggered by sync-mirrors)
[11:09] <sivang> pitti: no I mean, the script he wrote to track those builds :)
[11:09] <pitti> sivang: oh, it's just some fancy wrapping for lamont's exported scripts
[11:10] <pitti> sivang: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/ and .../byDate
[11:10] <mdz> Kamion: draft announcement at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftBreezyRCAnnouncement
[11:10] <pitti> sivang: but since lamont's logs are compressed, you can't just click'n'view
[11:11] <infinity> pitti : The failures are intentional (though I'd like to see some successes in there too, just for fun)
[11:13] <Kamion> mdz: ok, just catching up on mail then I'll read it
[11:17] <Kamion> pre-publishing done
[11:19] <Kamion> mdz: are we putting the DVDs on releases.ubuntu.com?
[11:19] <Kamion> (we haven't before, but we can do)
[11:20] <mdz> Kamion: I'm all for having the DVDs be less obvious
[11:21] <mdz> but I did want to mention them in the announcement this time around in hopes of getting some real testing
[11:21] <mdz> RC should be as close to final as possible in process
[11:21] <mdz> not quite a dry run, but just slightly damp
[11:22] <Kamion> cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/ is the alternative location, not so widely mirrored
[11:22] <sivang> mdz:re, * Support for automatic storage allocation into LVM volumes, maybe we want to make this less obvious in view of #15017 ?
[11:22] <Kamion> it's mostly a question of how much disk space releases.u.c mirrors have :-)
[11:22] <fabbione> sivang: it's in the release notes
[11:23] <mdz> sivang: that's only about using free space; afaik erasing the entire disk and using LVM works fine
[11:23] <mdz> fabbione: perhaps we should disable the freespace+lvm option?
[11:24] <fabbione> mdz: i don't mind that, but it will require a p-a-l upload
[11:24] <sivang> mdz: I choose "Use free space for LVM...etc" and it left my system inbootable, as noted in the bugreport
[11:24] <fabbione> or Kamion to do some magic..
[11:24] <mdz> sivang: yes, that's #15017
[11:25] <Kamion> partman-auto-lvm isn't in the initrd so it's no harder than most packages to upload
[11:25] <sivang> mdz: so erasing entire drive and using LVM (automatically) is not working, but manually it would.
[11:25] <fabbione> sivang: EH????
[11:25] <Kamion> sivang: "use free space for LVM" != "erase entire drive and use LVM"
[11:25] <mdz> sivang: as Kamion says
[11:25] <sivang> err, ok sorry
[11:26] <mdz> Kamion: RC is appearing in the us.cdimage pool
[11:26] <sivang> right, I apologize for misunderstanding.
[11:26] <fabbione> mdz: i can do the upload.. just tell me what's your preference.. Kamion?
[11:26] <mdz> fabbione: preference?
[11:27] <mdz> is there another option available apart from disabling that case?
[11:27] <fabbione> what you prefer me to do
[11:27] <fabbione> demoting p-a-l to extra
[11:27] <fabbione> that will take it away from the default install path
[11:28] <Kamion> that loses the entire feature, effectively
[11:28] <Kamion> few people know how to select extra features in anna
[11:28] <fabbione> right
[11:28] <fabbione> ok.. i will kill the Use free space thing
[11:29] <Kamion> disabling the option can be a one-liner in choices, I'd've thought
[11:29] <fabbione> Kamion: i checking it right now
[11:30] <fabbione> shouldn't be enough to remove it from _numbers?=
[11:32] <Kamion> fabbione: same effect, sure
[11:33] <mdz> announcement is locked and loaded
[11:33] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. i am testing the changes just to be 200% sure
[11:34] <jsgotangco> mdz, BreezyReleaseNotes updated on the wiki as well (just in case)
[11:37] <mdz> jsgotangco: thank you
[11:37] <zyga> where does 'About Ubuntu' menu item in system come from?
[11:38] <infinity> zyga : Erp.  Nowhere, on my system.
[11:38] <zyga> infinity: update - it's there
[11:38] <mdz> infinity: known bug
[11:38] <sivang> zyga: you probably want to ask seb128 about that
[11:38] <zyga> I've just checked all .pot files that pitti exports daily and it wasn't there
[11:38] <zyga> seb128: :-)
[11:39] <mdz> infinity: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16982
[11:39] <infinity> mdz : Good, cause I never owuld have clicked on it wihtout someone prompting.
[11:39] <seb128> zyga: gnome-panel
[11:39] <zyga> seb128: thanks
[11:39] <seb128> zyga: but it depends on ubuntu-doc package beeing installed
[11:39] <mdz> infinity: one of these days we will have formal test plans
[11:40] <zyga> seb128: it's not in the .pot file
[11:40] <zyga> seb128: no such package, ubuntu-doc... hmm
[11:40] <Kamion> ubuntu-docs
[11:40] <zyga> .sss :)
[11:40] <zyga> okay I've got ubuntu-docs
[11:41] <seb128> zyga: what do you ask?
[11:41] <seb128> zyga: the "About Ubuntu" translations? That's a desktop file
[11:41] <zyga> seb128: the phrase 'About Ubuntu' is not in the .pot file - it's not translatable
[11:41] <seb128> the menu item?
[11:41] <zyga> yes
[11:42] <zyga> cd
[11:42] <seb128> that's ubuntu-about.desktop
[11:42] <seb128> from gnome-panel
[11:42] <seb128> and desktop files don't use language-packs
[11:42] <seb128> so this string is frozen and not translatable now
[11:42] <zyga> uhh, okay 
[11:44] <zyga> seb128: the desktop file does contain some translations, how can I get another one inside it?
[11:44] <seb128> you can't, it's frozen now
[11:44] <seb128> subscribe to ubuntu-translators
[11:44] <seb128> a mail has been sent friday about that
[11:45] <seb128> pointing to a wiki page for the desktop files to translate
[11:45] <seb128> and the packages have been uploaded with the translation this week
[11:48] <fabbione> Kamion, mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/pal.diff <- tested
[11:50] <mdz> fabbione: not much context in the diff, but I trust that you tested it.  ok with me.
[11:51] <Kamion> fabbione: I think I prefer the _numbers change you suggested earlier
[11:51] <Kamion> but that diff works too
[11:51] <fabbione> mdz: it basically disable the feature by exiting the script that checks if the feature can be used
[11:51] <fabbione> Kamion: that didn't work in my test.
[11:51] <fabbione> Kamion: i rather be safe
[11:51] <Kamion> ok
[11:52] <Kamion> mdz: I'm doing various CD tests for the hell of it, but it seems everyone already did those last night. Time to just release it?
[11:52] <fabbione> uploaded
[11:52] <zyga> seb128: are you talking about this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTranslations
[11:52] <Kamion> mdz: oh, perhaps worth noting in the announcement that the release candidate images require 700MB+ media
[11:53] <Kamion> non-install/i386 anyway
[11:53] <mdz> Kamion: sure
[11:53] <jsgotangco> good idea
[11:54] <jordi> mdz: ping :)
[11:54] <mdz> jordi: WHAT IS IT NOW
[11:54] <seb128> zyga: yep
[11:54] <jordi> mdz: BOSTON
[11:54] <jordi> err, no
[11:54] <jordi> mdz: do you have a minute to look at this bug report? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=148565
[11:54] <daniels> jordi: CONSPIRACY
[11:54] <mdz> jordi: when is boston?
[11:55] <zyga> seb128: aww, is it really too late for one more translation? :/
[11:55] <jordi> should I consider applying it? I'm uploading gtk1 :)
[11:55] <seb128> zyga: yeah, upload are frozen
[11:55] <mdz> jordi: omg that bug is 3 years old
[11:55] <jordi> mdz: YES
[11:55] <seb128> zyga: as said, the translation freeze was one week ago
[11:55] <jordi> mdz: Boston is just after UBZ
[11:55] <jordi> ie, 11-15 nov
[11:55] <mdz> jordi: I am gonig to be in SF at that time
[11:55] <seb128> zyga: if you are interested by translation you should read the translators list
[11:55] <jordi> SF SUCKS
[11:56] <jordi> I SENSE THERE WILL BE AN EARTHQUAKE
[11:56] <mdz> SF is one of my favorite cities in the whole world
[11:56] <mdz> whereas boston is NOT
[11:56] <zyga> seb128: okay thenks
[11:56] <jordi> seek shelter at the Acetarium.
[11:56] <fabbione> Boston rocks!
[11:56] <jordi> mdz: I know SF is cool. But it's not on my travel plan this time :)
[11:57] <fabbione> my grandma lives in boston.. so it must be better than SF
[11:57] <jordi> mdz: so, is the patch safe, do you remember any drawbacks?
[11:57] <mdz> jordi: have you been there? we should go sometimes
[11:57] <mdz> sometime
[11:57] <mdz> jordi: dude, it was THREE YEARS AGO
[11:57] <jordi> mdz: nope
[11:57] <mdz> that's like 30 open source years
[11:57] <jordi> mdz: so what. I'm going to fix your bug. )
[11:57] <jordi> :)
[11:57] <Kamion> mdz: announcement edited
[11:57] <mdz> I don't remember what I ate for dinner yesterday
[11:57] <mdz> Kamion: I already edited my copy
[11:58] <jordi> You're going to get a nice BTS email stating that your 3 YEAR OLD bug has been dealt with.
[11:58] <mdz> jordi: I have even older open bugs
[11:58] <Treenaks> jordi: _are_ you coming to UBZ?
[11:59] <mdz> jordi: I don't even care about that bug anymore; the world has moved on to gtk2
[11:59] <zyga> seb128: just one more question ... AFAIR some desktop files *were* translated inside each application, for example disks-admin and language-selector, did this change?
[12:00] <mdz> jordi: but anyway this is way off-topic for this channel
[12:00] <jordi> mdz: UBUNTU DOESN'T USE XMMS!?!?
[12:00] <mdz> Kamion: us.releases is synched up, se.releases is almost there
[12:00] <jordi> ok
[12:00] <jordi> the patch doesn't apply anyway :)
[12:00] <mdz> jordi: @#$#@%$!@%!@5
[12:01] <seb128> zyga: they are, why?
[12:01] <mdz> jordi: I just went to SF this past weekend, I had a blast
[12:01] <zyga> seb128: then why are they listed on that wiki page? they can be translated through rosetta
[12:02] <seb128> zyga: <seb128> and desktop files don't use language-packs
[12:02] <seb128> zyga: we have updated the packages by hand with the translations from this page
[12:02] <zyga> seb128: I know - but installing language-selector used to install a desktop file containing all translations
[12:02] <seb128> zyga: no way
[12:02] <zyga> seb128: yes
[12:02] <jordi> mdz: mako is preparing a totally PUNKROCK party that weekend.
[12:02] <seb128> that's a new app and there is no a lot of translations
[12:03] <zyga> seb128: I did translate language-selector and disks-manager this way anyway
[12:03] <seb128> zyga: maybe the title changed and that reseted the translations
[12:03] <zyga> seb128: I'm sure it didn't :/
[12:03] <seb128> zyga: disks-manager don't use rosetta translations for the .desktop
[12:03] <zyga> seb128: I'll track this and let you know 
[12:04] <seb128> zyga: translation from rosetta don't work for desktop files
[12:04] <seb128> again
[12:04] <seb128> the desktop is generated during the build
[12:04] <seb128> so it has the .po from the build
[12:04] <seb128> ie: the upstream one
[12:04] <infinity> mdz, Kamion : Happy publishing, guys.
[12:04] <seb128> we don't push rosetta po to the source package
[12:04] <jsgotangco> its probably safe to grab the image now in the main links
[12:05] <seb128> zyga: not sure if that's clear for you how that works, but no .desktop get its strings from rosetta
[12:05] <mdz> infinity: dude, I've seen you leave and then come back and then leave again
[12:05] <mdz> infinity: during one work day
[12:05] <zyga> seb128: I understand now I think
[12:05] <mdz> I need to go to bed
[12:05] <seb128> 'night mdz :)
[12:05] <jsgotangco> night mdz
[12:05] <mdz> need to release RC first
[12:05] <zyga> seb128: but some .pots do contain strings from .desktop.in files and those pots get translated in rosetta and find their way back into the package (do they?)
[12:05] <jsgotangco> ahh
[12:05] <zyga> then buidling the package updates the translation
[12:05] <seb128> zyga: we didn't bother to do this wiki package for nothing
[12:06] <seb128> zyga: no
[12:06] <seb128> zyga: building the package is done from source
[12:06] <seb128> zyga: there is no rosetta po for the build
[12:06] <zyga> okay I see
[12:06] <mdz> Kamion: can we push the symlinks out while se is still getting the isos?
[12:06] <mdz> us is up to date
[12:06] <Kamion> mdz: certainly; I'll do that now
[12:06] <seb128> zyga: rosetta export its po to language-packs, no to source package
[12:06] <zyga> seb128: I understand now
[12:06] <seb128> good
[12:07] <mdz> jordi: I could maybe go, but only for like a day
[12:07] <jordi> you'd cross the con tinent just foor one day?
[12:08] <ajmitch> hey jordi, how's it going? :)
[12:08] <jordi> hi ajmitch 
[12:08] <jordi> Treenaks: _yes_
[12:09] <ajmitch> jordi: good, I hope you're in better health at UBZ than you were in sydney :)
[12:09] <mdz> jordi: only  for a very good party
[12:09] <jordi> mdz: then mako is the man you should ask.
[12:09] <jordi> I hope it will be :)
[12:09] <Treenaks> jordi: _cool_ :)
[12:09] <mdz> ajmitch: jordi is accident-prone.  he was run over at debconf5
[12:09] <jordi> startgirl will be around I think
[12:09] <jordi> mdz: NEARLY KILLED
[12:09] <ajmitch> mdz: the swim didn't help?
[12:11] <mdz> ajmitch: he swam through the pain
[12:11] <ajmitch> hah
[12:11] <ajmitch> he'd do that
[12:11] <ajmitch> he put up with me as an NM applicant
[12:11] <Treenaks> there's a lot of water around montreal too...
[12:12] <mdz> FROZEN water
[12:12] <ajmitch> hi kobold 
[12:12] <kobold> ajmitch: hi!
[12:12] <Treenaks> mdz: it wasn't frozen in Finland?
[12:12] <mdz> Treenaks: Finland was incredibly hot
[12:13] <jordi> it wasn't
[12:13] <ajmitch> jordi: you'll be happy to know that my packaging skills have picked up a bit since NM :)
[12:13] <mdz> it was incredibly hot unless you come from Spain
[12:14] <mdz> it was incredibly hot to me and I live in southern california
[12:14] <jordi> you didn't feel the temperature when walking out the aiport in Valencia at my return.
[12:14] <jordi> ajmitch: that's good :)
[12:14] <jordi> so, what do you guys think about this?
[12:14] <jordi>   * Patch the file selector to do file autocompletion like every other
[12:14] <jordi>     application (thanks, Matt Zimmerman, even if you don't care at all :)
[12:14] <jordi>     closes: #148565).
[12:14] <jordi> is it a good changelog entry?
[12:14] <mdz> it should also highlight the fact that the patch was made 3 years ago
[12:15] <doko> mdz: is it necessary, that the CD Rom is searched (/pool scanned) on the live CD?
[12:15] <mdz> doko: it is only useful on the live CD actually
[12:15] <mdz> it speeds up the d-i unpacking process there
[12:15] <mdz> elsewhere it is a waste of time
[12:16] <Lathiat> a big one
[12:16] <jordi> mdz: Done.
[12:16] <doko> ahh, ok. maybe we can title the progress bar with "caching ..." instead of searching
[12:16] <mdz> jordi: pop it
[12:16] <jordi>     application (thanks, Matt Zimmerman, even if you don't care at all
[12:16] <jordi>     just and because the patch is 3 years old and everyone is using GTK2
[12:16] <jordi>     anyway :) closes: #148565).
[12:17] <mdz> s/just //
[12:17] <Kamion> doko: it used to speed things up pretty noticeably; that may not be true any longer
[12:17] <Kamion> but everybody complained before I did that, and I get fewer complaints having done it
[12:17] <mdz> Kamion: no RC on us.releases yet
[12:17] <jordi> mdz: you don't care about poor orphan free software packages. You're a MONSTER
[12:18] <mdz> jordi: I live to destroy
[12:18] <doko> Kamion: yes, just the wording
[12:18] <mdz> jordi: I especially like to destroy Linux distributions
[12:18] <jordi> mdz: you maintain the ultimate tool for that, yes.
[12:19] <jordi> I'm proposing a poll for debianplanet: Was mdz's apt6 upload TOO EARLY or TOO LATE?
[12:19] <mdz> on the bright side, se.releases has an up-to-date pool now
[12:20] <mdz> jordi: or BOTH?
[12:20] <mdz> so that you have an option for joeyh
[12:20] <Mithrandir> too late in this universe, too early in other universes?
[12:21] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: so ask the MOTU
[12:21] <jordi> mdz: of course
[12:22] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: they're just masters of this universe, right?
[12:22] <jordi> Mithrandir: the fun think is that joeyh told mdz in Finland that that upload was both early and late, after he had got quite some heat afor "totally breaking Debian" :)
[12:22] <jordi> s/think/thing/
[12:22] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: hm, good point.. how about MOTM?
[12:23] <Mithrandir> jordi: which means that he shouldn't have uploaded at all?
[12:23] <mdz> jordi: that was in #debian-devel actually
[12:23] <ajmitch> sivang: don't try
[12:23] <Zomb> whoever mastered the Hoary live CD (mdz? Mithrandir?) : when you have time, have a look at https://www.redhat.com/archives/dm-devel/2005-October/msg00008.html and tell me if you have encountered that before
[12:23] <sivang> ajmitch: lol
[12:23] <maswan> mdz: well, it took an hour to sync it at 1 meg/s
[12:24] <jordi> mdz: ah
[12:25] <mdz> Zomb: I had some weird problems until I un-broke cloop
[12:25] <Zomb> mdz: ok... un-broke? how? 
[12:25] <Mithrandir> Zomb: I haven't seen it (except in cases where the media was bad, which obviously gave me problems)
[12:26] <mdz> Zomb: it wasn't interfacing with the 2.6 block layer correctly
[12:26] <Zomb> mdz: ok, are there any useful patches on the net? it is not in the cloop package AFAICS
[12:26] <fabbione> hmm
[12:26] <mdz> Zomb: the ubuntu sources are on the net, so yes
[12:27] <fabbione> Zomb: i think we merged it into our kernel so it's on the net
[12:27] <Zomb> aaah
[12:28] <mdz> this channel is getting increasingly off-topic tonight
[12:28] <infinity> mdz : Well, I'd stick around to make you feel better, but I'm not much help at this point, and I have a celebration dinner to attend. :)
[12:28] <jsgotangco> ti's waitin' for RC prolly
[12:28] <mdz> Kamion: something go wrong with that mirror push?
[12:29] <mdz> oop
[12:29] <doko> seb128: which package belong the "About Ubuntu" docs to (seen in the help app)? At least the german ones still reference Hoary
[12:29] <mdz> doko: ubuntu-docs
[12:30] <seb128> what mdz said
[12:30] <seb128> jbailey: around?
[12:30] <fabbione> seb128: too early
[12:31] <seb128> fabbione: right
[12:32] <Kamion> mdz: looks fine to me; I'm still preparing the push with the symlinks
[12:32] <Kamion> (and the source images)
[12:32] <Kamion> shouldn't be long now
[12:33] <mdz> Kamion: please no source; I can't stay awake that long
[12:34] <Kamion> too late, already done
[12:34] <Kamion> just verifying indices and such now
[12:34] <mdz> it took an hour to get install+live mirrored
[12:34] <mdz> and source is twice as big
[12:35] <Kamion> source < install+live
[12:35] <mdz> oh, true. only one arch worth of source ;-)
[12:35] <mdz> but still
[12:36] <Kamion> like I say, too late, sorry :(
[12:36] <Kamion> it's all on its way
[12:36] <Kamion> (i.e. mirroring)
[12:37] <Kamion> the DC mirrors are up-to-date
[12:38] <mdz> yay, the symlinks went up first
[12:39] <mdz> us and se are set
[12:39] <Kamion> indices not though, apparently
[12:39] <Kamion> i.e. the page still says "preview"
[12:40] <jsgotangco> yea
[12:40] <mdz> us says "index of ..."
[12:41] <mdz> I can absolutely live with that though
[12:41] <mdz> announcement is away
[12:41] <pitti> yay
[12:41] <doko> jsgotangco: are the hardware requirements synced with the CD cover layouts?
[12:41] <pitti> mdz: congrats
[12:41] <mdz> time to sleep
[12:42] <pitti> mdz: sleep well
[12:42] <janimo> sleep tight mdz
[12:42] <Kamion> night
[12:42] <mdz> someone add a link to the announcement to /topic if it shows up in the list archives
[12:42] <Zomb> fabbione, mdz: thanks
[12:42] <mdz> good night all
[12:42] <fabbione> kdz
[12:42] <Kamion> mdz: will do
[12:42] <doko> night
[12:42] <fabbione> mdz: good night
[12:42] <pitti> Kamion: since uploads are happening again, do you think I can upload the Greek fontconfig fix?
[12:42] <ogra> night mdz
[12:42] <mdz> we'll do this for real next week ;-)
[12:42] <Kamion> pitti: I checked that before RC and it looked fine, so yes
[12:42] <ajmitch> sleep well mdz 
[12:42] <pitti> Kamion: ok, thanks
[12:43] <pitti> Kamion: I also checked with Greek, Japanese, and Chinese, I didn't see any regression
[12:43] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion: thanks for letting the new kernel in
[12:43] <Kamion> pitti: oh, good
[12:44] <jsgotangco> doko, sent an email to silbs about it a few minutes ago
[12:44] <pitti> Kamion: I was afraid to break the Asian fonts (since mgopen then has a higher priority)
[12:44] <mvo> night mdz
[12:45] <seb128> 'night mdz
[12:45] <fabbione> infinity: you around?
[12:48] <doko> jsgotangco: thanks, jsgotangco: 128MB is ridiculous
[12:48] <jsgotangco> doko, please updated as needed, mdz will look over it again prolly this weekend
[12:49] <jordi> mdz: I'm uploading gtk+1.2. THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION!
[12:51] <pitti> jordi: I wonder how many Ubuntu users will notice a GTK 1 change :-)
[12:52] <jsgotangco> lol
[12:52] <jsgotangco> xmms users?
[12:52] <doko> fabbione, Kamion: can you really recommend 64MB minimum RAM for server installations? ok to double that to 128MB?
[12:52] <jordi> pitti: many. MANY
[12:52] <Kamion> doko: server installation => minimal base install
[12:53] <Kamion> not ok
[12:53] <fabbione> doko: 64MB are a lot to run a bunch of services
[12:53] <jordi> I'm mailing the GNOME foundation, I have this great plan for GNOME 3.0
[12:53] <pitti> doko: my home server (router, dhcp, ssh, files) has 20 MB :-)
[12:54] <jordi> it'll be based on GTK 1.2.10 again, which is so much faster.
[12:54] <pitti> doko: (well, it doesn't run Ubuntu, though)
[12:54] <pitti> jordi: *ahem*
[12:54] <tseng> jordi: we can bring back awesome gdk-xft hacks
[12:54] <doko> well, on the other hand, I really can't recommend running our desktop with 128MB ...
[12:54] <tseng> jordi: im in!
[12:54] <jordi> tseng: who needs xft! that was one of the slowing agents!
[12:55] <jordi> plain type 1 fonts. No unicode.
[12:55] <jordi> unicode is overrated
[12:55] <fabbione> doko: minimum required to install != recommended to run *
[12:55] <ajmitch> jordi: might as well just go back to motif
[12:55] <jordi> no man, motif was so bad.
[12:56] <doko> fabbione: well minimum, or recommended, but "minimum recommended" doesn't make sense
[12:56] <seb128> jordi "noise generator" mallach
[12:56] <seb128> jordi: shut up now, that's a working chan :p
[12:56] <jordi> yeah, I guess I'll shut up now. :)
[12:56] <doko> jordi: go running
[12:56] <jordi> i'll go pop the trunk
[01:00] <Kamion> us.releases is fully up-to-date now
[01:00] <Kamion> se.releases still has a bit to go
[01:01] <Kamion> Riddell: have you tested the current set of Kubuntu daily install/live images? Are they ready for RC?
[01:02] <fabbione> Kamion: 
[01:02] <Riddell> Kamion: testing now
[01:02] <fabbione>   partconf_1.09ubuntu2
[01:02] <fabbione>   archive-copier_0.3.6
[01:02] <fabbione> any of these 2 are in the initrd if you remember?
[01:02] <Kamion> fabbione: neither
[01:02] <Kamion> fabbione: we'll need a new initrd build for the other architectures for the new kernel anyway
[01:02] <Kamion> fabbione: so don't worry about getting the timing exactly right now
[01:03] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. but  i can get more test on ubuntu18 in the meanwhile
[01:03] <Kamion> fine
[01:03] <fabbione> if that's ok with you to process it BYHAND
[01:04] <Kamion> fabbione: that's not a problem
[01:04] <fabbione> perfect
[01:14] <Kamion> se.releases up-to-date
[01:14] <jordi> pitty is alive!
[01:14] <pitti_live> jordi: it's "pitti", not "pitty" :-)
[01:14] <pitti_live> hmm, the old ffox start page was much nicer
[01:15] <jordi> pitti_live: that's a pitty!
[01:15] <pitti_live> brb
[01:16] <seb128> firefox sucks anyway
[01:22] <pef> hello
[01:23] <jordi> seb128: when do you push for ubuntu to ship ephy by default?
[01:24] <kikidonk> yes ! yes !
[01:24] <ogra> booo
[01:24] <jordi> ff sucks so much
[01:24] <doko> pitti: why are english language packs installed for a german installation?
[01:25] <ogra> doko, they are always installed
[01:25] <ogra> not only in german installs
[01:25] <Kamion> doko: by mdz's request pre-hoary
[01:25] <Kamion> we always install English
[01:26] <Kamion> so there's always a fallback; it's not like they're large
[01:26] <doko> ok
[01:27] <fabbione> has it been approved?
[01:27] <seb128> jordi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EpiphanyDefaultBrowser
[01:27] <rob^> eww.. try Opera now that its free
[01:27] <Kamion> fabbione: ah, I guess not
[01:28] <ogra> rob^, free ?
[01:28] <rob^> yes
[01:28] <ogra> did the chnage it to opensource ? 
[01:28] <ogra> thats news to me
[01:28] <rob^> its been free (not opensource) for a few weeks now
[01:28] <ogra> rob^, its "bennerfree" thats all...
[01:28] <ogra> *banner
[01:29] <rob^> no banner
[01:29] <ogra> thats what i typed
[01:29] <rob^> no banner + free = free opera
[01:30] <ogra> before it was free and had a banner...
[01:30] <rob^> they removed licensing fees too
[01:30] <ogra> the only change i see is that they ripped out the banner
[01:30] <Treenaks> rob^: Free as in money != free as in freedom
[01:30] <rob^> yes, Treenaks thats what I said
[01:30] <jordi> seb128: that's a nice page.
[01:31] <rob^> 21:28| rob^ its been free (not opensource) for a few weeks now
[01:31] <Treenaks> rob^: yes, and ubuntu only includes Free software..
[01:31] <ogra> rob^, its been like that since years... it just had a banner
[01:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: which meant it stole  screen estate. :-)
[01:32] <ogra> Mithrandir, true....
[01:32] <rob^> I didn't say we had to include it, I just said its another option to firefox now that its free as in free (not as in freedom)
[01:32] <doko> DVD images for i386 and amd64 look ok
[01:32] <ogra> but that doesnt make it more free for me than before :) just more usable
[01:32] <rob^> well, it won't cost you anything ;)
[01:33] <ogra> it never did cost me anything 
[01:34] <seb128> jordi: yeah :)
[01:36] <\sh> rob^: it's not an alternative for ubuntu, only for kubuntu as konqui replacement
[01:36] <\sh> rob^: and this should never happen
[01:38] <rob^> well it will never replace ff as the browser of choice in Ubuntu
[01:38] <\sh> hmmm...who has the powers to check if linphone-common for amd64 is handled as NEW?
[01:38] <\sh> rob^: opera is QT
[01:39] <\sh> rob^: that's the point ;)
[01:39] <rob^> but I don't see why we would want to drop ff for Epiphany
[01:39] <Kamion> bam, 14MB freed up on the install CD
[01:39] <Lathiat> heh
[01:39] <Lathiat> not more? ;p
[01:39] <Lathiat> thats like 10 language packs or something :)
[01:39] <Kamion> if it was more, I'd have said more
[01:39] <Kamion> that's the figure germinate gives for i386
[01:40] <rob^> its such a popular internet browser that people would question why we would remove it
[01:40] <kikidonk> rob^ epiphany is gnome
[01:40] <kikidonk> ubuntu uses gnome
[01:40] <Kamion> \sh: linphone-common is not in NEW
[01:40] <\sh> Kamion: not for i386 or ppc but I don't find amd64 (which I enabled with the last upload)
[01:41] <Kamion> \sh: the decision about whether something lands in NEW isn't architecture-specific, anyway
[01:41] <Kamion> once it's added to the overrides once, that applies to all architectures
[01:41] <\sh> Kamion: hmmm....
[01:41] <rob^> kikidonk, yes, but ubuntu doesn't just use gnome
[01:42] <\sh> I'm such an idiot
[01:42] <Kamion> \sh: judging from (a) the build log and (b) the state of the archive, your upload does not build linphone-common/amd64
[01:43] <\sh> Kamion: is ok...I changed the control file on ravel and not locally...but adjusted the changelog on my local machine *bangmyheadonmydesk*
[01:43] <kikidonk> rob^ do you know what browser kubuntu uses ?
[01:44] <rob^> yes
[01:44] <\sh> Kamion: bug thx
[01:44] <kikidonk> that was a question, actually :)
[01:44] <\sh> but even
[01:45] <\sh> kikidonk: konqueror as for kde and ff 
[01:46] <kikidonk> so they use konqueror by default, i bet
[01:47] <rob^> I'd much rather tell new users that Ubuntu uses ff, because a lot of non-technical users know what that is
[01:47] <kikidonk> do you think new users care about which browser they use ?
[01:47] <rob^> yes
[01:47] <kikidonk> they don't even know there are more than IE :)
[01:48] <rob^> most know about ff now days
[01:48] <rob^> for example, on sfd this year I had several people ask me what applications Ubuntu ships with
[01:49] <rob^> I said OOo, firefox.. all knew or at least heard of them
[01:49] <rob^> if I was to say Epiphany they would just look at me strangely
[01:49] <kikidonk> ok
[01:49] <kikidonk> it might be an argument
[01:50] <kikidonk> but you can always install firefox beside epiphany
[01:50] <rob^> yes, but you can also always install epiphany beside ff
[01:50] <rob^> if thats what you prefer
[01:50] <kikidonk> that is not saying that epiphany is superior to firefox :P
[01:50] <kikidonk> that' what i do, indeed, i guess this is all just a stupid "flamewar"
[01:51] <rob^> yeah
[01:51] <poningru> if I may chime in
[01:51] <kikidonk> but i still do think that being gnome a gnome distro it should a least ship with all gnome components
[01:51] <rob^> not trying to have a flamewar, ff has its problems but I think sticking with it would be better for Ubuntu 
[01:51] <poningru> I think an end user distro should ship with transitional software
[01:52] <poningru> transitional software meaning the user has some exp with it so that s/he doesnt feel lonely in the linux world
[01:52] <poningru> it has some familiar apps there
[01:52] <rob^> yes, for example the Open CD
[01:52] <rob^> very handy on sfd :)
[01:52] <poningru> exactly
[01:52] <kikidonk> i don't like the idea of ubuntu being windows, just without the price problem
[01:53] <rob^> its far from that kikidonk 
[01:53] <kikidonk> we deserve more than being just transistional software
[01:53] <rob^> ff just happens to be best of breed at the moment, and the most popular non-ie browser
[01:54] <poningru> kikidonk: you have to ween people off
[01:54] <poningru> even if that means crappy software at first
[01:55] <infinity> What's so 'crappy' about firefox that epiphany solves, anyway?
[01:55] <poningru> they get frustrated then you say to them look we have better software sitting two clicks away
[01:55] <slomo> seb128: something fast to fix: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/nautilus-cd-burner/+bug/2889
[01:55] <poningru> infinity: thats what kikidonk is saying
[01:55] <poningru> so I just went along with a 'for the sake of the argument'
[01:55] <seb128> slomo: no, it's not
[01:55] <kikidonk> yes :)
[01:56] <slomo> seb128: not? ok :/
[01:56] <rob^> ok I'm off to bed
[01:56] <rob^> night all
[01:56] <seb128> slomo: cdrdao has to be promoted first
[01:56] <kikidonk> but infinity are you using any QT software on a gnome install by default, no because QT doesn't "integrate" with the gnome way
[01:56] <kikidonk> same can be said with firefox
[01:56] <seb128> slomo: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13168
[01:56] <kikidonk> nd is the main point i think
[01:56] <infinity> kikidonk : Until a large number of OEM systems ship with Ubuntu (or Linux in general), you have to deal with that fact that we can't target "completely newbie users", but we also have to target people who are a little more "web savvy" and "brand conscious", because those are the people who will suggest Ubuntu to their "normal" friends.
[01:56] <seb128> slomo: will be fixed after 5.10
[01:56] <infinity> kikidonk : The Firefox brand id very helpful with that, given its prevelance on the web.
[01:57] <kikidonk> yes i do agree about that, what is saddening right now, is that epiphany isn't even installed by default
[01:57] <infinity> kikidonk : People are used to seeing "works with IE and Firefox" out there at this point, and they don't want to see some "no name browser" shipped by default.
[01:57] <mvo> Kamion: how are uploads handled now? I have a fix for a users-admin crash on amd64 pending
[01:57] <jbailey> seb128: Am now
[01:57] <mvo> slomo: cdrdao dosn't have a working -scanbus ATM :/
[01:57] <infinity> kikidonk : Installing two browsers by default (or two of anything by default) is silly.
[01:57] <seb128> jbailey: hi
[01:57] <Kamion> mvo: as pre-RC, but showstoppers only
[01:58] <seb128> jbailey: do you know why yelp summary has "Courte description du systme Ubuntu Hoary" for " propos d'Ubuntu" ?
[01:58] <kikidonk> yes that is true :)
[01:58] <infinity> Kamion : I assume "segfaults hideously on one arch" is a showstopper?  (I have a pending php5 upload for that)
[01:58] <mvo> Kamion: ok, thanks. a crash on amd64 each time a user is added is serious enough I figure?
[01:58] <infinity> Kamion : Which I will make when I'm not innebriated.
[01:59] <Kamion> mvo: yes
[01:59] <seb128> infinity: read the webpage about what epiphany fixes
[01:59] <jbailey> seb128: Err, no. =)
[01:59] <Kamion> infinity: yes, that's acceptable
[01:59] <jbailey> seb128: I can remove that translation. 
[01:59] <seb128> infinity: better GNOME integration, gettext translation shipped with the package, schedule matching the GNOME one
[01:59] <poningru> seb128: dude its all a giant flamewar
[01:59] <jbailey> seb128: The OMF files weren't put into Rosetta, but there were some bits that were already translated.
[01:59] <kikidonk> :)
[01:59] <poningru> on planet deb
[01:59] <poningru> on here
[01:59] <poningru> please stop
[02:00] <seb128> jbailey: can't you fix it rather? What title is that supposed to translate?
[02:00] <jbailey> seb128: So I kept those.  they come from before me.
[02:00] <Kamion> kikidonk: speaking as the guy currently trying to make CD images fit, I completely agree with infinity; we don't need duplication
[02:00] <seb128> poningru: who are you?
[02:00] <poningru> seb128: sorry just a random guy
[02:00] <kikidonk> yes that was a stupid proposal
[02:00] <seb128> poningru: why do you talk about flamewar here?
[02:00] <poningru> didnt mean to yell at a dev in here
[02:00] <kikidonk> and beside ephy needs gecko anyway so currently you have to install both
[02:00] <jbailey> seb128: This document aims at answering questions that are asked frequently. It contains Wiki entries from the ubuntu.com web site, the mailing lists and all contribution that we received through the Ubuntu Bugzilla.
[02:01] <poningru> seb128: kikidonk and someone else were arguing about epiphany and firefox
[02:01] <seb128> jbailey: it has an english subtitle?
[02:01] <jbailey> seb128: No, that'
[02:01] <jbailey> s what the English version of that has.
[02:01] <seb128> poningru: yeah, you can have a discussion on the topic without doing a flameware
[02:01] <poningru> ok
[02:02] <poningru> well I assumed this was a continuation of what was going on many blogs
[02:02] <seb128> how firefox is translated is enough to hate it to start :)
[02:02] <doko> seb128: the gnome startup analysis is a nice read
[02:02] <seb128> doko: yeah
[02:02] <seb128> jbailey: k, thanks ... so could you fix it? :)
[02:03] <seb128> jbailey: or should that be fixed on rosetta?
[02:03] <jbailey> Well, it should go through Rosetta and have someone whose French is more perfect than mine do the Translation.
[02:04] <seb128> will do it, thanks
[02:05] <jordi> jbailey: JEFF
[02:05] <jordi> got my email?
[02:05] <jordi> seb128: Subject: Bug#148565: marked as done (libgtk1.2: gtkfilesel completion does not behave like anything else)
[02:06] <jordi> :)
[02:06] <seb128> bah
[02:12] <fabbione> Kamion: d-i- ubuntu 18 is up.. mind ot BYHAND it?
[02:13] <Kamion> fabbione: done
[02:15] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[02:27] <jordi> pitti: so did will belocs-locales be up to date? did you request a sync?
[02:34] <Kamion> seb128: should launchpad-integration bugs go to you, or to sivang, or what?
[02:35] <seb128> Kamion: me is fine, I can reassign them then if required
[02:35] <Kamion> ok
[02:36] <pitti> jordi: I didn't request a sync since that would destroy my changes
[02:36] <pitti> jordi: please merge
[02:38] <seb128> pitti: do you know about #17148 ... we already talked about such stuff, do you have some other such bugs?
[02:38] <segfault> is there any new CD image, or its the same as yesterday?
[02:38] <jordi> pitti: I don't know how to do that
[02:38] <jordi> pitti: if it's not "mail elmo"
[02:38] <Lathiat> hrm, the umu.se rsyn cmirror seems to be having issues
[02:39] <Lathiat> it randomly wont list stuff in the breezy dir,a nd then when it does, i try to get the .iso and it says its not a regular file
[02:39] <seb128> jordi: mege? that's easy, you diff Debian and Ubuntu version and you apply the Ubuntu specific changes then you do and upload :p
[02:39] <Nafallo> Lathiat: ping maswan about that :-)
[02:39] <Kamion> Lathiat: well, it's not, it's a symlink
[02:39] <pitti> jordi: as seb said
[02:40] <pitti> jordi: we used to have merge-o-matic for this, too, but it seems to be broken ATM
[02:40] <Kamion> Lathiat: could be one of the machines is missing a file though; as Nafallo says, ping maswan
[02:40] <Lathiat> Kamion: well, thats broken
[02:40] <Lathiat> Kamion: ok
[02:40] <Lathiat> maswan: ping
[02:40] <Kamion> Lathiat: what's broken?
[02:40] <pitti> got the dreaded keyboard dialog
[02:40] <Kamion> segfault: all CD image building has been disabled for the RC.
[02:40] <Lathiat> Kamion: it says its a non regular file when i try to rsync, and sometimes a directory listing of releases/breezy/ just shows "breezy", and sometimes it works
[02:41] <Kamion> definitely sounds like one frontend is out of kilter
[02:41] <Nafallo> pitti: you should find a way to tell people about /var/lib/postgres -> /var/lib/postgresql :-)
[02:41] <jordi> pitti, seb128 : I can't upload ubuntu packages.
[02:41] <pitti> daniels: hmm, I still got the keyboard question after hoary->breezy upgrade; keyboard now works fine, though
[02:41] <Nafallo> pitti: hi btw :-P
[02:41] <pitti> Hi Nafallo 
[02:41] <jordi> If anyonme wants to do this merge for me, the Kurdish people will be happy
[02:41] <seb128> jordi: you can do the work and be sponsored
[02:41] <Kamion> jordi: (they still won't get installer support in breezy ...)
[02:42] <Lathiat> ok i see
[02:42] <pitti> jordi: the Kurdish people will be happy if glibc's locale supports the locale; jbailey promised that, but I'm not sure whether Breezy will get it
[02:42] <Lathiat> Kamion: seems one of the machines showed a release/ instead of ubuntu-releases/
[02:42] <Lathiat> *releases/
[02:42] <Kamion> -> maswan then
[02:42] <jordi> Kamion: minor glitch
[02:42] <jordi> "minor" as in you only install once, you use ubuntu many times after that
[02:43] <Kamion> true
[02:44] <Lathiat> gha, us.releases gives the same non-regular file thing
[02:45] <pitti> Nafallo: pg_lslclusters will tell you the path
[02:45] <pitti> Nafallo: seriously, why do you think it's so important?
[02:47] <Nafallo> pitti: I have that path on a seperate lvm-partition. I had a 100% full /var yesterday :-P
[02:47] <pitti> Nafallo: if /var/lib/postgres is a separate partition, the transition does not touch it
[02:47] <pitti> Nafallo: the path is pretty much arbitrary in the new architecture, you can use whatever you want
[02:47] <pitti> Nafallo: the transition just tries to use the canonical path
[02:48] <pitti> Nafallo: so you dist-upgraded, and the cluster was moved to another partition?
[02:48] <Nafallo> seems like it, can't be sure though. I was rather tired ;-).
[02:48] <Nafallo> my databases got prunned to :-P
[02:49] <pitti> "prunned"?
[02:49] <Nafallo> removed, deleted, stopped to exist :-)
[02:49] <pitti> Nafallo: hmmm?
[02:49] <Treenaks> pruned
[02:49] <Nafallo> so I have NFC what I did :-P
[02:49] <pitti> Nafallo: they were removed automatically? there is no code that does this
[02:50] <Nafallo> clearly, I don't consider this a bug since I don't know what I did :-)
[02:51] <pitti> Nafallo: ok; if you feel like checking and see an important bug, please cry immediately :-)
[02:51] <Nafallo> hehe, I will :-)
[02:51] <Nafallo> otherwise I figure someone else will if the hit it ;-)
[02:52] <pitti> Nafallo: many people upgraded since them (myself included, on 3 machines)
[02:52] <pitti> Nafallo: I had some minor things, but never total data loss
[02:52] <pitti> Nafallo: maybe the cluster is just misconfigured now?
[02:52] <pitti> Nafallo: i. e. the transition failed to configure the new path properly?
[02:52] <Nafallo> could be, but the old path only had lost+found :-)
[02:53] <pitti> hmm
[02:53] <Nafallo> working not anyway, with /var/lib/postgresql and a new database :-P
[02:53] <Nafallo> s/not/now/
[02:54] <pitti> seb128: I don't have a similar bug; we eject USB devices deliberately (see the old iPod bug)
[02:54] <pitti> seb128: I'll answer
[02:55] <maswan> Lathiat: Ah, rsync on releases? That's because the uk.releases have that as a "releases" rsync module, while se.releases has it as "ubuntu-releases"
[02:55] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[02:56] <maswan> Lathiat: I've asked the uk.releases admins to fix this, since rsync has no vhosting, we're not comfortable with calling anything just "releases". that would appear as ftp.se.debian.org::releases and ftp.mozilla.org::releases and ftp.gnome.org::releases
[02:57] <Nafallo> wow
[02:57] <Nafallo> what would FOSS be without that cluster :-P
[03:01] <Nafallo> doko: ping :-)
[03:08] <Robinho_Peixoto> which is the burn cd/DVD default of Ubuntu ?
[03:08] <pitti> Robinho_Peixoto: #ubuntu
[03:09] <pitti> Robinho_Peixoto: you mean the default program? nautilus-cd-burner
[03:09] <\sh> Kamion: can u do me a favour when you have time? Please check the control file of linphone_1.0.1-6ubuntu7 and tell me what's wrong with linphone-common? it doesn't show up for amd64 on archive.ubuntu.com...
[03:10] <pitti> Kamion: ok to upload security updates to Breezy?
[03:10] <pitti> Kamion: (with minimal backported patches, as usual)
[03:13] <doko> Kamion: Nafallo: png
[03:14] <Nafallo> doko: openoffice.org2-core deps openoffice.org2-common (>1.9.129-0.1ubuntu3) but 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu3 will be installed.
[03:14] <Robinho_Peixoto> The programs update-manager and gnome-app-install are not in rosetta.  It has forecast to place in rosetta?
[03:17] <mvo> Robinho_Peixoto: gnome-app-install is availabe at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gnome-app-install/+pots/gnome-app-install
[03:18] <mvo> carlos: any idea why update-manager is not imported yet?
[03:20] <bddebian> Morning
[03:21] <Nafallo> morning god ( bddebian ) :-)
[03:21] <bddebian> pfft.  Hi Nafallo
[03:21] <Nafallo> hihi
[03:22] <sivang> hey bddebian 
[03:22] <bddebian> Howdy sivang
[03:22] <doko> Nafallo: oh crap, thanks for the pointer
[03:23] <Nafallo> doko: np. I got hit by it ;-).
[03:24] <bddebian> Kamion: ping?
[03:24] <bddebian> seb128 or ogra: ping also? :)
[03:24] <lamont> doko: I'm wondering what exactly you did change in the oo.o2-amd64 control file... add ia64 perhaps?
[03:25] <lamont> doko: if you're in there, see 17119
[03:25] <seb128> bddebian: what about just asking?
[03:29] <doko> lamont: just updating it from the oo.o2 control file (two deps, adjusting descriptions)
[03:30] <doko> lamont: that looks like a defect deb on ia64?
[03:31] <lamont> doko: that bug says that everywhere in that control file that says 'Architecture: amd64' should also say 'ia64'
[03:31] <lamont> see oo.o-amd64.
[03:32] <bddebian> seb128: Sorry, I never know when someone is actually "here".  I have a "working" gnome-launch-box but it is a combo of an svn update and a patch from a user.  Should I even bother?
[03:32] <lamont> OTOH, I'm not sure that I _want_ that fixed for breezy... livecd is on the bitter edge of going back over 700MB again...
[03:33] <seb128> bddebian: you can let a message for people not here
[03:33] <seb128> bddebian: you worked on it, if it works upload it yep
[03:34] <doko> lamont: your call, I did an upload without that ...
[03:34] <bddebian> seb128: Should I add some svnblahblah version to it?
[03:35] <seb128> bddebian: yeah
svn2005nnnn
[03:35] <slomo> bddebian: you fixed it? good work :) svn didn't work for me because of new gnome-menus api ;)
[03:35] <bddebian> slomo: Yeah, I worked on it but I got a better patch from StoneTable.
[03:36] <slomo> seb128: wouldn't <currentversion>+svn2005abcd be better? with the +
[03:36] <bddebian> I hate all that crap :-)
[03:36] <slomo> bddebian: hehe so i can finally test it and see whether it is really useful ;)
[03:36] <seb128> slomo: no, why?
[03:36] <bddebian> slomo: It's not. ;-)  Actually it is kinda neat but the interface sucks
[03:37] <bddebian> So here is current version: 0.1-0ubuntu4  I would make it 0.1-0ubuntu4+svn20051004  ?
[03:38] <bddebian> Err ubuntu5...
[03:38] <slomo> seb128: almost everybody uses it ;) maybe dpkg has some magic to let 0.1sz be higher than 0.1+svnbla so upstream can release some version like that ;) no idea...
[03:39] <slomo> bddebian: 0.1svn20051004-0ubuntu1... or with the +
[03:39] <bddebian> Ugh
[03:40] <seb128> slomo: no magic, 0.1anything is less than 0.2
[03:40] <slomo> seb128: and 0.1anything less than 0.1.1?
[03:41] <seb128> man dpkg
[03:41] <seb128> dpkg --compare-versions
[03:42] <bddebian> seb128: So what would the "correct" way be?
[03:43] <seb128> bddebian: anyway you want
[03:43] <seb128> version as you want
[03:43] <seb128> or put the diff to a patch
[03:43] <bddebian>  0.1svn20051005-0ubuntu1?
[03:43] <seb128> by example
[03:44] <slomo> seb128: ok, 0.1anything < 0.1.1 ;) btw, who was the gstreamer maintainer and in which irc channel can i find him? except one bug (that should be fixed soon) wavpack should be ready for inclusion
[03:45] <Riddell> Kamion: i386 and powerpc kubuntu CDs are good
[03:45] <seb128> #gnome-debian on gimpnet, lool is the maintainer
[03:45] <Riddell> jbailey: did you get a chance to test the amd64 kubuntu CDs?
[03:45] <seb128> but he's quite busy atm
[03:46] <bddebian> I'll try the patch route and see if it works
[03:47] <slomo> seb128: ok, thanks... then i'll wait until the beginning of next week :) this can wait
[03:47] <rob^^^> hrmm, VirtualPC works very well but DefaultDepth needs to be 16 for video not to be garbled.
[03:48] <rob^^^> Is there a way to have that autodetected?
[03:48] <Treenaks> rob^^^: what kind of video card is emulated?
[03:48] <rob^^^> Treenaks: hold, a sec, it's loading ... slowly ;)
[03:49] <rob^^^> VPC is a great way to take a look at dailys without closing down my 20 apps I have open ;)
[03:50] <jbailey> Riddell: I haven't, sorry.  I've just been looking at a couple bugs that might be RC worthy.
[03:50] <Lathiat> jbailey: any idea on my slow loading modules one?
[03:50] <Lathiat> jbailey: that causes usplash to timeout
[03:50] <Lathiat> cus not having usplash any boot sucks :(
[03:50] <jbailey> Lathiat: Nope, but it won't be fixed for Breezy.
[03:50] <jbailey> Lathiat: And post-breezy, that whole module-loading bit will change significantly.
[03:50] <Lathiat> is the usplash early load change going to be reverted then?
[03:51] <jbailey> No
[03:51] <rob^^^> Treenaks: I'm having a hard time from Device Manager, dmesg, and /proc
[03:52] <rob^^^> hrmm, maybe the hardware reporting wizard can help
[03:52] <Lathiat> jbailey: well, that sucks
[03:52] <Treenaks> rob^^^: lspci
[03:52] <jbailey> Lathiat: If you can still manage to boot, then it's not going to be important enough to risk breakage during RC.
[03:52] <Lathiat> well, i already count it broken, heh.
[03:52] <jbailey> Lathiat: You do eventually get to a gdm screen, right? =)
[03:53] <Lathiat> yes, but i go through all sorts of horrid pain and suffering
[03:53] <Lathiat> and withdrawl
[03:53] <rob^^^> 86c764/765
[03:53] <jbailey> Lathiat: It's true, the withdrawl method is not terribly effective.
[03:53] <Lathiat> and it burns my eyes
[03:53] <jbailey> Lathiat: But it will have to do until the dapper cycle.
[03:53] <Lathiat> pff
[03:53] <jbailey> Lathiat: Just be brave and test with us for that release.
[03:53] <Lathiat> jbailey: so, whats ahead for dapper?
[03:53] <Lathiat> jbailey: your lucky it doesn't break on my canonical laptop or i'd jump up and down harder ;p
[03:54] <jbailey> Lathiat: Hard to say.  Dapper discussions mostly take place at UBZ.  I'm hoping for a more conservative release, given how long we have to support it.
[03:54] <Lathiat> jbailey: i more meant specifically the modules stuff
[03:54] <Lathiat> jbailey: since you mentioned that was changing
[03:54] <Lathiat> curious what to
[03:54] <rob^^^> exact string is 0000:00:08.0 VGA compatible controller: S3 AInc. 86c764/765 [Trio32/64/64V+] 
[03:54] <jbailey> Lathiat: The udev upstream posted a patch to make it possible to watch hotplug events.
[03:55] <Lathiat> jbailey: meaning?
[03:55] <jbailey> Lathiat: So we'll be much more conservative of what we load at the startup time, and mounting root will trigger based on a uevent.
[03:55] <jbailey> Lathiat: so USB booting will Just Work(tm)
[03:55] <Lathiat> jbailey: oh, nice
[03:55] <jbailey> Lathiat: Beyond that, it means that we can go very quickly from there into gdm, because we can order the bits needed for that first.
[03:56] <Lathiat> i hope the gnome login stuff will get niced too
[03:56] <jbailey> In what way?
[03:56] <Lathiat> since it seems that we can get large optimizations very easy from the various reports
[03:56] <rob^^^> Treenaks: Xorg will run but it's quite stretched horziontally
[03:56] <Lathiat> just things like not reading from 370 files every login
[03:56] <rob^^^> like 5x as wide as it should be or something
[03:56] <Lathiat> like this one for example
[03:56] <Lathiat> http://www.gnome.org/~lcolitti/gnome-startup/analysis/
[03:56] <jbailey> Lathiat: Ah pure upstream stuff.
[03:56] <Lathiat> jbailey: oh, kyeh
[03:57] <Lathiat> jbailey: but its still related
[03:57] <Lathiat> its a shame avahi support can't work out of the box :\
[03:57] <Lathiat> damn no server policy
[03:57] <Lathiat> our network code is flawless, honest ;)
[04:00] <slomo> Lathiat: no server policy?
[04:00] <Lathiat> slomo: can't have any open ports out of the box
[04:00] <bddebian> Grrr, I need my NEW stuff to come through.. :-(
[04:01] <slomo> Lathiat: :(
[04:01] <slomo> jbailey: are there any news on the ppc-xfs problem?
[04:02] <jbailey> slomo: No, I wasn't able to figure out what the problem is for certain, and I don't know the ondisk XFS layout well enough to get it.
[04:03] <slomo> jbailey: did you report this to the yaboot guys? otherwise i would do now...
[04:03] <jbailey> slomo: I spoke to Ben about it, yes.
[04:04] <slomo> jbailey: ah ok... thanks :) well so i can't use initramfs for breezy... when you get something to test for me just tell me ;)
[04:05] <rob^^^> Treenaks: any thoughts on what it could be?
[04:07] <jbailey> slomo: Will do. =)
[04:08] <Treenaks> rob^^^: read the docs
[04:10] <Kamion> \sh_away: linphone-common seems to have built fine for amd64; I assume it just arrived later
[04:10] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[04:10] <Kamion> doko_: pong
[04:10] <Kamion> bddebian: pong
[04:10] <Kamion> jbailey: testing Kubuntu/amd64's relatively urgent; it means we can do a Kubuntu RC release
[04:11] <Kamion> I can do it in principle, but it'll take hours
[04:11] <jbailey> Kamion: 'k
[04:11] <jbailey> Kamion: I can't easily test an install, but I can test live CD definetly, and live DVD is my burner feels up to it today.
[04:12] <jbailey> (The DVD burner has been giving me alot of coasters lately)
[04:14] <doko_> Kamion: pong for what?
[04:14] <Kamion> doko_: 14:13 < doko> Kamion: Nafallo: png
[04:15] <doko_> Kamion: hmm, something left in the buffer ;)
[04:15] <bddebian> Kamion: Can you please look at libchipcard2 stuff for me?  I think one of the binaries came in as NEW
[04:16] <Kamion> bddebian: been on it for the last few minutes or so
[04:17] <Kamion> (having cocked up the override change the first time round)
[04:19] <wickedpuppy> hi guys got a question ... suppose i would like to port a program from another distro to ubuntu .. how would  i go about doing that ?
[04:19] <wickedpuppy> any links ?
[04:20] <jbailey> wickedpuppy: Do you only wnt to do one, or are you interested in helping keep a bunch of packages happy in Ubuntu?
[04:20] <Kamion> bddebian: libchipcard2* and libofx* are in queue/accepted/ now
[04:21] <wickedpuppy> eh i am new so i start with one ?? 
[04:21] <wickedpuppy> i will take on more as i get more confidence
[04:21] <jbailey> wickedpuppy: Well, just that if you're interested in getting involved, the Masters of the Universe team is a good place to get involved with.
[04:22] <wickedpuppy> yup i am prepared ... i am on wiki , launchpad and setting up my pbuilder as of now
[04:22] <jbailey> wickedpuppy: They have little tasks that will help you learn packaging, and after you develop confidence and have some experience, you'll be able to upload your packages to Universe.
[04:22] <jbailey> wickedpuppy: Great!  It's probably best to poke your head into #ubuntu-motu
[04:22] <bddebian> Kamion: Awesome, thank you sir
[04:23] <wickedpuppy> oh greats .. where can i find those little tasks jbailey ? in wiki ?
[04:23] <jbailey> wickedpuppy: I'm not involved with them on a day-to-day basis, so it's probably best to ask in there.
[04:24] <wickedpuppy> oh ah ...
[04:25] <wickedpuppy> heh ... actually my problem is i am fully aware of the ubuntu dev process
[04:25] <wickedpuppy> so i am not sure who does what and where things are sent to
[04:26] <wickedpuppy> if you guys know any guide on it , i appreciate if you could point out to me
[04:26] <wickedpuppy> thanks
[04:32] <bddebian> Kamion: Any idea how long that will take?  I'm sorry to be a pest but I have a user that will test the ofx stuff in gnucash for me.
[04:45] <Kamion> bddebian: "cron.daily" (the name's historical) runs at 3 and 33 minutes past every hour, and takes under 10 minutes to run. Mirrors (including archive.ubuntu.com) are triggered at the end of every cron.daily run.
[04:45] <Kamion> bddebian: in other words, it's there now (it being ~45 minutes past the hour)
[04:45] <bddebian> Kamion: OK, thx, sorry
[04:48] <bddebian> Kamion: Do you know if the dep-wait for libaqbanking self-cleared also?  Lamont's site still shows it?
[04:49] <seb128> grumpf, no needinfo nor upstream for malone
[04:49] <bddebian> seb128: Aye :-(
[04:50] <bddebian> And afaict no way to view bugs I have subscribed to or made comments on :-)
[04:51] <Kamion> bddebian: yes, libaqbanking's building now. There's a slight delay (only 20 minutes or so, I think) on lamont's buildlogs mirror
[04:51] <Kamion> dep-waits generally auto-clear unless they're on virtual packages or something like that
[04:51] <daniels> pitti: can you please send /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and the output of xprop -root | grep _RULES?
[05:02] <bddebian> elmo!! Welcome back :-)
[05:15] <carlos> mvo, update-manager still lacks the .pot file
[05:15] <Lathiat> lamont, elmo, infinity: about?
[05:16] <Kamion> elmo: welcome back. archive hasn't crashed and burned, you'll be glad to hear
[05:16] <Kamion> 5.10RC on LWN
[05:16] <Kamion> (http://lwn.net/Articles/154760/)
[05:17] <Lathiat> It seems nothings attempted to build oprofile for amd64 but its listed in arches, any idea why?
[05:18] <bddebian> Kamion: :-)
[05:18] <mvo> carlos: it looks to me like it's available (0.37.1+svn20050404.14)?
[05:19] <Lathiat> ouch, ogras buildlog page is like a sea of red
[05:19] <Kamion> Lathiat: Packages-arch-specific says "%oprofile: i386 ia64 alpha hppa powerpc sparc"
[05:20] <Lathiat> Kamion: is that that silly override thing?
[05:20] <Kamion> Lathiat: s/silly //, but yes
[05:20] <Lathiat> ok, i guess i'll try find out if it actually works on amd64
[05:20] <Kamion> Lathiat: you'll need to get elmo/someone to update it
[05:20] <Lathiat> Kamion: can i get that list?
[05:21] <Lathiat> well, it seems to be building on debian
[05:21] <Kamion> Lathiat: I believe it currently matches http://cvs.debian.org/srcdep/Packages-arch-specific?rev=HEAD&cvsroot=dak&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
[05:21] <Kamion> Lathiat: Debian/amd64 may well just blatantly ignore P-a-s
[05:21] <carlos> mvo, yeah
[05:21] <Lathiat> cheers
[05:22] <Kamion> it wouldn't surprise me
[05:22] <carlos> mvo, http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/translations/20051005/update-manager_0.37.1+svn20050404.14_hppa_translations.tar.gz
[05:31] <mvo> carlos: looks like there was a missing build-dep on intltool; D'Oh
[05:31] <carlos> mvo, ok
[05:34] <mvo> Kamion: uploaded update-manager with "intltool" added as build-dep, no other changes. hope that's ok
[05:35] <mvo> carlos: new version uploaded, thanks for leting me know about the problem
[05:35] <carlos> mvo, I will try to add in the future some kind of notification to the maintainers about this issue automatically, in the mean time I need to check the logs manually, sorry...
[05:37] <desrt> where are the archives?
[05:38] <tseng> desrt: which?
[05:38] <desrt> ca.
[05:38] <desrt> it was down yesterday and today
[05:39] <desrt> hmm.. maybe it's just a connectivity problem between school and it
[05:39] <mvo> carlos: yeah, some sort of notification would be nice
[05:39] <carlos> mvo, my main concern is if we have a way to know if the maintainer field has an Ubuntu maintainer or a Debian one...
[05:40] <carlos> I don't think a Debian one will be interested on that kind of "SPAM"
[05:40] <mvo> carlos: oh, right. that's a pretty big problem indeed 
[05:41] <carlos> hmm, I suppose I would check if is an Ubuntite or not
[05:42] <Kamion> mvo: should be fine
[05:43] <bddebian> elmo: If you are around and happen to have a second could you look at my @ubuntu.com e-mail?  I don't get any and I'd really like to start using that on my uploads.  Thanks.
[05:43] <Kamion> carlos: I'd've thought this would be best dealt with by having separate Ubuntu owners registered for packages in Launchpad, and some kind of "none" field there if there's no explicit Ubuntu maintainer.
[05:44] <Kamion> carlos: (we get lots of other nice effects from that)
[05:44] <Kamion> indeed, except more global and exported to the Maintainers file etc.
[05:44] <carlos> Kamion, well, whatever solution you find is ok for me, as soon as I can get that info ;-)
[05:45] <Kamion> we could seed it from the bugzilla default-assignee list, even
[05:45] <carlos> Kamion, anyway, I can get that information from launchpad, I don't need it directly from hte source package so I suppose it's easier for me that way
[05:45] <Kamion> carlos: I've already asked for it in the context of Malone, although (as discussed then) it's clearly a Launchpad-global thing; I don't know if I got anywhere
[05:45] <carlos> Kamion, yeah, that would be useful for Rosetta to send this kind of notifications
[05:46] <Kamion> nobody seemed to know whether it was possible to make a package have a different owner in different distributions
[05:46] <Kamion> I sincerely hope the data model allows for that
[05:46] <Kamion> I'm sure it did originally ...
[05:54] <whiprush> jdub: ping
[05:58] <wickedpuppy> Failed to fetch cdrom:[Ubuntu 5.10 _Breezy Badger_ - Alpha i386 (20050902)] /dists/breezy/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Please use apt-cdrom to make this CD-ROM recognized by APT. apt-get update cannot be used to add new CD-ROMs
[05:58] <wickedpuppy> hi how to solve this error message ?
[05:59] <wickedpuppy> i did apt-cdrom add to added the cdrom 
[05:59] <mdke> wickedpuppy, you should ask in #ubuntu
[05:59] <wickedpuppy> but still having this error
[05:59] <wickedpuppy> okie sorry
[05:59] <mdke> np
[06:00] <slomo> daniels: as you seem to be one of the dbus maintainers in debian... do you know when we can expect dbus 0.50 in unstable?
[06:01] <Robot101> slomo: its in experimental
[06:01] <Robot101> slomo: has been for ages
[06:02] <slomo> Robot101: yes i know... but i asked for unstable ;)
[06:02] <Robot101> oh
[06:02] <Robot101> lalala :)
[06:02] <Robot101> it breaks stuff or something
[06:02] <Robot101> quite a lot of foo needs to be recompiled I think
[06:02] <seb128> not only recompiled
[06:02] <seb128> the API changed
[06:02] <slomo> yes... and ported to new apis :/
[06:02] <Robot101> so its a horrific transition of dhoom
[06:02] <pitti> but many packages are in experimental that just wait for dbus
[06:03] <Robot101> which presumably is done already in ubuntu?
[06:03] <pitti> Robot101: we did it for breezy
[06:03] <pitti> Robot101: everything is ready and just waits for dbus
[06:03] <seb128> Robot101: I'm not sure than universe is
[06:03] <Robot101> hm
[06:03] <Robot101> what do the release badgers say?
[06:03] <pitti> Robot101: I assume daniels waits until the other transitions are complete in etch
[06:03] <seb128> pitti: GNOME 2.12 should go with it and it's not ready atm
[06:03] <pitti> Robot101: vorlon asked not to break etch further
[06:04] <seb128> yeah, new GTK is waiting too because of that :p
[06:27] <slomo> who wants to patch dbus? ;) http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2005-October/003514.html
[06:27] <slomo> or is it already too late?
[06:27] <Lathiat> heh
[06:28] <Lathiat> its probably waaaay late ;p
[06:28] <Kamion> seems far too late for that
[06:28] <slomo> Kamion: even for a small bugfix like that? ok...
[06:29] <infinity> There are lots of small bugfixes to be made, but the only ones getting in a reasonably critical ones.
[06:29] <bddebian> Aren't new l33t versions of ANYTHING critical? ;-P
[06:29] <infinity> Too many unimportant small bugfixes add up to big archive churn, which adds up to "stuff magically becoming unstable and not being ready for release anymore"
[06:29] <Kamion> slomo: a simple URL with no justification is not enough; if you provide justification, i.e. major breakage caused by the lack of this patch, then that might be different
[06:29] <Lathiat> it breaks avahi. :)
[06:30] <slomo> Kamion: see Lathiat ;) but as avahi isn't in main this is probably not critical enough...
[06:31] <Robot101> Kamion: it means nothing in python can send/recieve unicode strings on dbus
[06:32] <Robot101> Kamion: (and a unicode string isn't necessarily one that contains unicode, its just however python is representing it internally)
[06:39] <\sh> Kamion: did you find the time to have a look over linphone and the missing amd64 package of linphone-common?
[06:42] <Lathiat> \sh: i've requested it be added to packages-arch-specific
[06:42] <Lathiat> oh
[06:42] <Lathiat> wait 
[06:42] <Lathiat> wrong pcakage, i was looking at that one too 
[06:44] <\sh> Lathiat: well...it should be already be build...but somehow it's not in the archive...
[06:44] <Lathiat> \sh: interesting
[06:46] <infinity> \sh : http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/l/linphone/linphone-common_1.0.1-6ubuntu7_amd64.deb
[06:46] <infinity> \sh : Looks there to me.
[06:46] <infinity> Are you just being impatient again? :)
[06:47] <\sh> infinity: wow...the last time I checked (before 2 hours) it was compiled, and all other archs where there, but not the amd64
[06:47] <Lathiat> yeh ditto
[06:47] <infinity> \sh : Which means the amd64 upload probably just missed the previous dinstall run, that's all.
[06:48] <arkais> hi
[06:49] <\sh> infinity: ok...you're right...my doctor says all the time that I'm a terrible patient ;) I can't wait ;)
[06:50] <bddebian> :-)
[06:57] <bddebian> How can I tell for sure that libofx2 conficts and/or replaces libofx1c2 ?
[06:57] <azeem> why should they conflict?
[06:57] <infinity> Or replace, for that matter.
[06:57] <bddebian> azeem: On installing the new gnucash
[06:58] <infinity> ...
[06:58] <azeem> bddebian: so you want libofx1c2 removed when upgrading gnucash?
[06:58] <azeem> bddebian: this should be left to the admin/the APT frontend 
[06:58] <infinity> bddebian : If they have different SONAMEs, they shouldn't need to conflict, that's kinda the point.
[06:58] <\sh> guys...TB reschedule meeting @ 20 UTC?
[07:02] <bddebian> azeem / infinity: trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libofx.la', which is also in package libofx1c2
[07:03] <azeem> bddebian: .la files should be in -dev packages, no?
[07:03] <infinity> .la files shouldn't be in the library package.
[07:03] <infinity> (Well, we really shouldn't ship them at all, but if you must, they should be in the -dev package)
[07:03] <bddebian> hmm
[07:03] <azeem> having the -dev libraries conflict is alright
[07:04] <azeem> Thomas Bushnell, BSG is responsible for this Debian package
[07:04] <azeem> bah
[07:04] <infinity> bddebian : So, move the .la to the -dev package, and have the -dev package "Replaces: libofx1c2, libofx1, lobofx1c102" (or whatever packages had that .la file in them)
[07:05] <bddebian> azeem: Aye ;-)
[07:05] <infinity> bddebian : Alternately, just say "screw it, it's wrong, but I refuse to deal with it right now", and have the library package do the replaces, and file a report with Thomas to get his act in gear.
[07:05] <bddebian> Heh, OK
[07:05] <infinity> bddebian : Either way, no need to Conflict, just use Replaces to overwrite the file.
[07:06] <desrt> this is why the archive appears to be offline, i suspect:
[07:07] <desrt> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/06/level3_cogent/
[07:08] <infinity> Damn, makes me wish I was an affected Cogent customer.
[07:08] <desrt> the two places i can't hit it from are on cogent
[07:08] <infinity> A year of free bandwidth, when I don't even want to talk to L3 customers, sounds pretty good.
[07:15] <Amaranth> infinity: you probably have to sign a contract
[07:34] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[07:35] <mdz> nothing like a solidly wedged video card to help one wake up with confidence
[07:35] <bddebian> Heh.  Good morning mdz
[07:35] <mdz> thanks to whoever moderated the announcement...I realized when I woke up this morning that I forgot to do it
[07:36] <\sh> guys...u really made my day...the first time in the last months I don't have to tweak the initrd of the installer iso :)
[07:37] <mdz> \sh: tweak the initrd?
[07:37] <\sh> mdz: sk98lin problem
[07:38] <\sh> mdz: before I could install breezy I had to open initrd and include a separate sk98lin driver and put it back into the installer media
[07:43] <mdz> Zomb: thanks for the nasty comments.  I sent the patch upstream ages ago.
[07:45] <bddebian> Doh
[07:46] <\sh> bddebian: conflicts/replaces i think is a good idea for libofx2
[07:46] <bddebian> \sh: Or I should probably fix it correctly as infinity pointed out..
[07:46] <\sh> bddebian: yes this would be better
[07:47] <infinity> \sh : No need to conflict for a file overwrite.  Just replaces.  Please.
[07:47] <Zomb> mdz: does not change the fact that it has been broken in Debian for months, fixed in Ubuntu for months, and nobody did know about that except of the few Ubuntu developers. And upstream does not care unless some bug hits him directly.
[07:47] <infinity> \sh : There's no reason why two libraries with different SONAMEs should ever have to conflict.
[07:48] <mdz> Zomb: that is no excuse
[07:48] <\sh> because of the .la?
[07:48] <mdz> Zomb: you asked me for help, I answered your questions gladly, and you responded with rudeness in your changelog
[07:49] <infinity> \sh : What about it?... That doesn't make the packages conflict, just means the new one needs to overwrite the file in the old one.  That's what "Replaces" does.
[07:49] <\sh> infinity: *bang* yes
[07:49] <infinity> \sh : Again, two packages that have libraries with different SONAMEs should (almost) never conflict.  If they do, you break smooth transitions, locally-compiled packages, etc.
[07:49] <Lathiat> infinity: i think you need to write a guide on this stuff :)
[07:50] <bddebian> Oh, hehe, libofx2 does have Replaces but the -dev doesnt
[07:50] <infinity> Lathiat : It's called Debian Policy. :)
[07:50] <Lathiat> with easy steps for diagnosing what you need to do :)
[07:50] <bddebian> Weird
[07:50] <spayne> doko: ping
[07:50] <Lathiat> heh 
[07:50] <\sh> bddebian: not in your package
[07:50] <bddebian> \sh: I just re-pulled the source
[07:51] <bddebian> Package: libofx2
[07:51] <bddebian> Architecture: any
[07:51] <bddebian> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
[07:51] <bddebian> Replaces: libofx1c2
[07:51] <Zomb> mdz: fine, see it as you wish. IMO "rude" is a bit different.
[07:51] <\sh> bddebian: from whom?
[07:51] <bddebian> \sh: apt-get source libofx
[07:51] <\sh> bddebian: in debian libofx.diff.gz there is nothing to see 
[07:52] <infinity> bddebian : That should probably be a longer list (1, 1c2, 1c102), I'm betting the .la file has been there forever.
[07:52] <mdz> Zomb: I took time to talk with you about it even though we were in the middle of preparing a release.  The least that you could do was to be civil.
[07:52] <doko> spayne: pong
[07:52] <infinity> bddebian : And yes, I see no Replaces on the libofx2 package in the archive.
[07:52] <\sh> +Package: libofx2
[07:52] <\sh> +Architecture: any
[07:52] <spayne> doko: when i go to change the icon theme in OOo2, there are no options
[07:52] <\sh> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
[07:52] <\sh> this is the diff from debian
[07:53] <spayne> doko: so i can't change it to the standard one - is this a known bug?
[07:53] <bddebian> Well it's there.. WTF???
[07:53] <mdz> Zomb: if you have a complaint about me in the future, talk to me rather than writing it in a changelog.
[07:53] <zyga> hello
[07:53] <infinity> bddebian : Oh, it's there in -3ubuntu2, which isn't built/uploaded yet.  La la la.
[07:53] <zyga> who build the live cds?
[07:53] <\sh> lol
[07:53] <Lathiat> maswan: about?
[07:53] <infinity> bddebian : My most recently available binary is -3ubuntu1
[07:53] <\sh> my source as well was -3ubuntu1
[07:54] <doko> spayne: you can file an enhancement request, very low priority ...
[07:54] <infinity> bddebian : Anyhow, a -3ubuntu3 that fleshes out that Replaces line would be nice.
[07:54] <spayne> doko: a few versions ago, i could do it
[07:54] <bddebian> Smurf fixed it
[07:54] <spayne> doko: but seems to have disappeared in recent uploads
[07:55] <\sh> hmmm...
[07:55] <Lathiat> maswan: it seems my rsync client has problems dealing with your symlinks
[07:55] <bddebian> But he only added libofx1c2 not libofx1
[07:55] <Lathiat> maswan: e.g. the isos symlink to ../.pool/
[07:56] <Zomb> mdz: hookay, the next issue will go through open mailing lists first... no irc, no changelog comments.
[07:56] <infinity> bddebian : Hrm, probably no need to add libofx1c102, looks like it never was in a stable Debian or Ubuntu release.  But yes, please add libofx1, it's in Sarge at least.
[07:57] <bddebian> Ahh, WTF happened to gnome-launch-box?? :-(
[07:58] <ogra> mdz, the "|| true" solution wont give me the opportunity to notify the user what to do, will it ? (re: ltsp)
[07:58] <mdz> ogra: you mean if they read base-config.log?
[07:59] <ogra> mdz, nope, if i add a debconf notification... i didnt plan to have any echo stuff in a final version, its just to outline the principle
[07:59] <mdz> ogra: it is too late to add debconf templates
[07:59] <ogra> ok
[08:00] <mdz> keep it absolutely dead simple
[08:00] <ogra> so only a "|| true" and a notification in the install notes then... better than the current state at least
[08:01] <mdz> mvo: around?
[08:01] <mvo> mdz: yes
[08:03] <mdz> mvo: never mind, I see you attached the patch in bugzilla
[08:03] <mvo> mdz: which one in particular? gnome-system-tools?
[08:04] <mdz> pitti: is there any possibility for these fontconfig changes to affect non-greek languages?
[08:04] <mdz> mvo: yes
[08:04] <mvo> mdz: I have fixed another crash (on amd64, services-admin). I would like to fix it too 
[08:04] <pitti> mdz: in theory yes, since it moves priority of the Asian fonts below mgopen
[08:04] <mvo> mdz: one line fix: G_TYPE_INT -> G_TYPE_POINTER
[08:04] <Kamion> Lathiat: those aren't his symlinks, they're my symlinks
[08:04] <pitti> mdz: but in practice Kamion, ogra, and I checked that Asian fonts work as before
[08:05] <Kamion> Lathiat: there are rsync options to deal with that
[08:05] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu amd64 CDs are good, i386 DVD is good
[08:05] <Kamion> pitti: I didn't test this myself; I only quickly eyeballed the diff
[08:05] <Kamion> Riddell: yep, amd64/install working for me
[08:05] <Lathiat> Kamion: oh, what do i have to pass?
[08:05] <pitti> mdz: since mgopen does not provide Asian fonts, it does not "shadow" them
[08:05] <Lathiat> Kamion: unfortunately just using rsync with no flags makes it die
[08:05] <Kamion> ogra: there are Edubuntu CDs and DVDs waiting for you to test if you're going to do a release candidate
[08:05] <Riddell> Kamion: great, can you put them on the server?
[08:05] <Kamion> Lathiat: man rsync, search for 'symlink'
[08:06] <mdz> dholbach: gparted?
[08:06] <Kamion> Riddell: we have many servers :-)
[08:06] <Kamion> Riddell: but I'll assume you meant "please release the Kubuntu RC" and do that ;)
[08:06] <ogra> Kamion, i didnt plan a RC way to much stuff to fix... but i can test the isos indeed
[08:06] <Riddell> Kamion: that'll be the one
[08:06] <mdz> mvo: sounds fine
[08:07] <dholbach> mdz: it's a couple of fixes from cvs, upstream advised me to get in
[08:07] <mdz> dholbach: we're post-RC; we need to be very cautious
[08:09] <dholbach> mdz: the changes all made sense and were reported either in out BTSs or in gnome's one, but if you want me to do a patch for more clearity, i can do so
[08:09] <dholbach> mdz: a cherrypicked patch
[08:09] <mdz> pitti: so mgopen contains only greek glyphs?
[08:09] <Riddell> do uploads still have to be vetted by mdz or Kamion?
[08:09] <mdz> Riddell: all uploads still require manual approval, through the final release
[08:09] <Riddell> mdz: ok
[08:10] <mdz> Riddell: you don't need to ask in advance if it's obvious and safe
[08:11] <mdz> pitti: there are many more speakers of asian languages than greek; we don't want to cause problems for them ;-)
[08:11] <pitti> mdz: mgopen probably also contains latin glyphs, but we have higher priority fonts for them
[08:11] <pitti> mdz: right, I checked Japanese and Chinese, and mgopen does not contain *any* asian glyphs
[08:12] <mdz> pitti: ok, thanks
[08:12] <pitti> mdz: I compared a Japanese and CHinese desktop without and with the patch
[08:12] <pitti> mdz: I didn't see any difference in terms of glyphs
[08:14] <pitti> mdz: btw, would it be possible for uploads to only appear at b-changes after they are actually accepted?
[08:15] <pitti> mdz: in the case of a rejected upload the mail cannot be undone...
[08:15] <mdz> pitti: that's an elmo question, but I suspect it isn't worth the effort
[08:15] <mdz> this is a temporary hack for breezy
[08:15] <pitti> mdz: propably depends on the number of uploads that are actually rejected
[08:16] <Kamion> pitti: UNACCEPTing stuff is nasty anyway
[08:16] <mdz> pitti: they can't be rejected because they've already been accepted
[08:16] <mdz> I don't expect to reject anything
[08:16] <pitti> ok
[08:16] <mdz> only hold things until after release
[08:16] <Kamion> pitti: we don't reject stuff generally, we either ignore them or get people to supersede them with different uploads that resolve problems
[08:16] <Kamion> (e.g. bash)
[08:21] <bddebian> infinity: Did kmymoney2 ubuntu2 come through?  It's been a while since changes got accepted and it's not showing up on lamonts site
[08:22] <mvo> mdz: gnome-system-tools uploaded with a amd64 crash fix for services-admin
[08:23] <fabbione> mvo: is that ubuntu9 or ubuntu10?
[08:24] <mvo> fabbione: ubuntu10 is the updated one, ubuntu9 fixes another amd64 crash
[08:25] <mdz> jbailey: ping
[08:26] <fabbione> mvo: thanks
[08:26] <fabbione> mvo: i mean.. thanks for making my life impossible ;) i am trying to build get the last 2 pkgs built for sparc to have RC CDs :P
[08:27] <fabbione> super itaglish++
[08:27] <bddebian> infinity: Never mind :-)
[08:27] <fabbione> but you get the point :P
[08:28] <mvo> fabbione: is the sparc a 64 bit arch? if so, you probably need ubuntu10 :)
[08:29] <fabbione> mvo: yes it's a 64 bit kernel arch, but userland is 32
[08:30] <mvo> fabbione: can I help you in some way? send you the ubuntu10 packages or something?
[08:31] <fabbione> mvo: nah.. don't worry.. just stop fixing bugs :)
[08:32] <mvo> fabbione: heh :) ok
[08:33] <mdz> lamont: did you or infinity flush the amd64 cloop?
[08:33] <mdz> ogra: is 16726 actually a bug, or just sabdfl's screensaver selection?
[08:34] <spayne> doko: i've took a screenshot (http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/OOo2-NoIcon.png) and it looks like there is a fault with the actual chaning of icon themes as the correct .zip files are present
[08:34] <ogra> mdz, i'll have to look at it...
[08:35] <ogra> mdz, normally rss-glx shoud add the screensavers in postinst to /etc/X11/app-defaults
[08:35] <ogra> i didnt change a thing on this package except settin the default volume for skyrocket to zero during this release cycle
[08:37] <spayne> doko: this feature works fine on Debian and SUSE
[08:39] <Kamion> mdz: I believe lamont did it a week or so back
[08:39] <bddebian> Where is the "missing" stuff on people.u.c/~cjwatson   ??
[08:39] <Kamion> ogra: not that I'm complaining about having less to do, but it must be nice to have a choice about whether to do an RC ;-)
[08:39] <Kamion> bddebian: eh?
[08:40] <jbailey> mdz: pong
[08:40] <bddebian> Kamion: Doesn't he have a page that shows "missing" stuff. (I.E. NEW) ?
[08:40] <Kamion> bddebian: dude, *I* am cjwatson
[08:40] <mdz> ogra: it doesn't have a postinst and I see no mention of it being removed
[08:40] <bddebian> Kamion: The reason that I ask is that I still don't see the libaqbanking 1.5.99... binary stuff yet?
[08:41] <Kamion> and no, I do not have anything that monitors the state of the NEW queue. The closest I have to what you might be thinking of is http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/, which is main-only
[08:41] <ogra> Kamion, the current image is lacking fixes... i dont see that it should be a RC before these are in... since it will take time i think a RC before release doesnt make sense
[08:41] <bddebian> Kamion: Oohhh *red face*
[08:41] <mdz> ogra: don't waste time on it; it isn't a regression
[08:41] <mdz> ogra: the package didn't have a postinst in hoary either
[08:41] <ogra> mdz, i didnt say i removed a postinst... and except me nobody touched it... give me time to look at it
[08:41] <ogra> mdz, exactly...
[08:42] <Kamion> ogra: I hope you realise that you can only get a very, very limited class of fixes into the archive from now on
[08:42] <ogra> Kamion, yes i'm discussing with mdz since yesterday for my most critical one...
[08:42] <Kamion> you will have to cut your losses at some point; better do it at a point when the problems are well-understood
[08:43] <bddebian> Kamion: Is the libaqbanking-libgwenhwfar-plugin still hung up in NEW ?
[08:43] <Kamion> bddebian: YES
[08:44] <bddebian> Oh :-(
[08:44] <bddebian> Why the caps?  How would I know that?
[08:44] <Kamion> NEW processing is not instant, nor will it be; I've been processing it since your last question about it a whole three minutes ago
[08:44] <bddebian> Kamion: I thought you did it this morning, sorry.
[08:44] <Kamion> sorry to be tetchy, but I mean, really
[08:44] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but this one was a installation blocker it needed fixage
[08:45] <Kamion> ogra: in universe
[08:45] <Kamion> I am also busy dealing with the Kubuntu release
[08:45] <mdz> Kamion: he's talking about edubuntu
[08:45] <Kamion> ah
[08:45] <Kamion> fair enough
[08:45] <mdz> bddebian: coincidentally, I was just processing queue/new while you were nagging :-P
[08:45] <ogra> Kamion, err you meant MOTU ?
[08:45] <bddebian> I'm not trying to NAG.. Sheesh :-(
[08:45] <ogra> heh
[08:46] <ivoks> calm down guys... you are doing great stuff...
[08:46] <bddebian> Is there any chance of getting someone appointed later on to handle Universe specific stuff so we don't have to bug you main guys?  Kind of a laison or something?
[08:46] <Kamion> mdz: um ... you can't do universe NEWs like that
[08:46] <Kamion> there is an obscure and undocumented process :-/
[08:47] <mdz> Kamion: I thought the process was "just do it and then move it later"
[08:47] <Kamion> oh, well, I guess you can
[08:47] <mdz> that's what elmo recommended to me
[08:47] <Kamion> there's a new_universe program in katie's path
[08:47] <Kamion> you add the output to the overrides using natalie, and then move everything back into queue/unchecked/
[08:48] <Kamion> then it goes straight into universe
[08:48] <Kamion> bddebian: ultimately it'll all be in Launchpad; any processes we define now will change anyway ...
[08:50] <Kamion> mdz: I had to ask elmo a couple of times how he did it before he told me that method; for some reason he seems to believe it's a bit of a hack ;-)
[08:50] <bddebian> Kamion: I didn't mean immediately obviously, just thinking out loud.
[08:51] <Kamion> bddebian: ok - release day is not the best time for all of us, really :-)
[08:51] <ivoks> :)
[08:51] <ivoks> as i said... calm down :)
[08:51] <bddebian> Kamion: I know sorry.  I have goals too ya know.. ;-P
[08:53] <Kamion> bddebian: I know, no problem. I did try to do a universe version of http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/ a while back, since it's been on my to-do list for some time and I know it'd be helpful - but it took longer than the cron.daily cycle to generate
[08:53] <Kamion> so I need to get it going on some other machine with a full mirror, probably rookery itself (i.e. people)
[08:53] <Kamion> takes a shedload of memory though
[08:54] <bddebian> I can imagine
[08:54] <ogra> mdz, there is a mechanism in xscreensaver (thom added it i think) to prevent GL screensaver to be run in software rendering mode... i guess thats the prob with rss-glx...
[08:54] <infinity> bddebian : No, you probably can't imagine, until you've seen britney in action.
[08:54] <infinity> bddebian : It's twelve kinds of scary.
[08:54] <bddebian> If I stay at this job maybe I'll throw up a mirror
[08:54] <bddebian> infinity: Heh
[08:56] <Kamion> britney used to be ulimited to 900MB of memory in Debian. It overflowed that on a regular basis ...
[08:58] <infinity> (and a fix uploaded)
[09:00] <slomo> infinity: you mean cabal? or something else?
[09:02] <infinity> slomo : No, tipa.  Bad remove/purge conffile handling.
[09:04] <mvo> mdz: is #17172 something that should be fixed for -final?
[09:04] <Kamion> Riddell: Kubuntu release is syncing out to mirrors now; will be a while
[09:04] <Kamion> Riddell: sorry for the delay
[09:05] <jbailey> mdz@ubuntu.com  2005-10-06 19:53 UTC  Target Milestone  ---  Ubuntu 5.10
[09:05] <jbailey> Is my clock, or the DCs confused?
[09:06] <Riddell> Kamion: no problem, thanks for that
[09:06] <Riddell> Kamion: are the DVDs there as well?
[09:06] <tseng> jbailey: i thought bugzilla was in UK local time for some reason
[09:06] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah
[09:06] <Kamion> tseng: shouldn't be claiming UTC, then :)
[09:07] <Riddell> Kamion: did you or jbailey test the AMD64 DVD?
[09:07] <tseng> this is true.
[09:07] <Kamion> Riddell: I didn't; I don't think jbailey did either
[09:07] <jbailey> 'k,np.  I knew Matt was super-human, but this was a new one to me. ;)
[09:07] <Kamion> but if the Ubuntu DVDs work (which they do) and the Kubuntu amd64/{install,live} CDs work (which they do), then I'm not too worried
[09:08] <infinity> jbailey : bugzilla is in Europe/London, but in certain places claims to be UTC.  Known issue.
[09:09] <jbailey> infinity: Luvly, thx.
[09:10] <mdz> bugzilla calls Europe/London UTC for some reason
[09:11] <lamont> mdz/Kamion: I manually reset the amd64 cloop a bit ago
[09:11] <mdz> lamont: ok
[09:12] <mdz> lamont: depending on how pressed we are for space, we may need to do it again
[09:12] <lamont> but since we hadn't deployed sladen's zero-er earlier, I was unwilling to deploy it post-preview on amd654
[09:12] <mdz> Kamion: have you done a build since all your changes?
[09:12] <lamont> (ia64 has it turned on in the daily script, to give us testing)
[09:13] <lamont> mdz: np.  it's a straightforward run of the python script... the long part is the diff of the entire fs afterwards, just to be pedantic....
[09:13] <lamont> (when I reset it, it was copy, zero, mount both, diff, make sure we're happy, replace.)
[09:13] <Kamion> mdz: not yet, no
[09:14] <lamont> mdz/kamion: and btw, I'll be mostly offline from tomorrow morning until monday evening...
[09:15] <lamont> wait.. this is thursday...  off and on tomorrow, gone sat-am thru mon late evening
[09:21] <grayman> When you install something in synaptic you get that status bar with terminal. The questions is... can i use it in my own application in someway, because i noticed that gnome-app-install uses the same one too
[09:22] <mvo> grayman: yes you can, please join #synaptic for details (I don't want to be too OT in this channel)
[09:22] <grayman> i can? thanks
[09:23] <lamont> mdz: actually, the only one I reset was ubuntu-live... still need to reset the others.
[09:26] <lamont> mdz/kamion: since I know how much you love changes just before release....
[09:27] <lamont> ia64 has been running sladen's zero-er for a couple weeks, with no ill effects... we could consider just turning it on...
[09:30] <jbailey> Anyone able to install pieces in the chroot on concordia?
[09:31] <fabbione> jbailey: i guess both elmo and Znarl can
[09:31] <lamont> mdz: I'll reset all of the amd64 images today sometime, in any case.
[09:31] <lamont> the advantage of deploying the zero-er is that the image then has no wastage, instead of 'just today's wastage'
[09:32] <jbailey> fabbione: YEah, probably not the right timezone for them.
[09:32] <jbailey> Ah well.  /me fires up the test build on a slow local machine.
[09:33] <lamont> fabbione: and pretty much only them.
[09:34] <fabbione> lamont: yeah
[09:43] <mvo> mdz: sorry for pestering you, I wonder if #17172 is something that can/should be fixed for -final (one line fix)?
[09:44] <zyga> mvo: one line fix that fixes an issue is a good fix
[09:44] <mdz> mvo: that's fine
[09:44] <mdz> mvo: remember that you already have 3 existing bugs with 5.10 milestone, though; don't forget about those
[09:45] <mdz> jbailey: did I already ask you about #14456?  something to be concerned about for 5.10, or not?
[09:45] <Kamion> ooh, need a preset query for me + 5.10 milestone
[09:45] <mdz> Kamion: you only have 2 and you are quite aware of them already ;-)
[09:46] <Kamion> yep, just checked
[09:46] <jbailey> mdz: Adding the define would allow us to match the kernel change from the end of September.  Nothing is relying on it, though.
[09:47] <jbailey> mdz: So path of least resistance is 'no', path of completeness is 'yes'.  I don't know inotify well enough to know if anyone would notice if it weren't there.
[09:48] <mdz> jbailey: so the things that use inotify in breezy are  including their own copy of the header?
[09:48] <mvo> mdz: thanks for reminding me :) I'm not sure if #8502 is a "must-fix" for 5.10 and I'm not sure if it is possible to produce a "simple and obvious" fix for this. what do you think?
[09:49] <mdz> mvo: you are the one who set the milestone to 5.10 :-)
[09:49] <mdz> mvo: if it isn't fixed upstream and the fix isn't obvious, let's defer it
[09:49] <jbailey> mdz: The header is there.  There's one define that's missing because the feature wasn't in the kernel when I added the header.  Ben added the feature at the end of September, so most things either include their own header or use this one without the define.
[09:49] <jbailey> mdz: It's not a standard feature in 2.6.12, it's one we added, so I don't think it's high-impact to not have it in.
[09:50] <mvo> mdz: I set that months ago :) 
[09:50] <tepsipakki> mdz: #17151, yes the swap is on LVM, sorry for not making that more clear
[09:50] <mdz> jbailey: oh, the patch made it look as if l-k-h wasn't shipping the header at all
[09:51] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl
[09:51] <mdz> tepsipakki: please follow up to Bugzilla so that this information is recorded there
[09:51] <sabdfl> hey bddebian
[09:51] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[09:51] <sabdfl> mdz: T-8mins, right?
[09:51] <tepsipakki> mdz: sure, just can't do it from here ;)
[09:51] <fabbione> tepsipakki: there is already a bug open for it
[09:52] <jbailey> mdz: Right.  I added it partway, then marked it as upstream, since it wasn't part of 2.6.12.  Ben patched inotify after.
[09:52] <tepsipakki> fabbione: oh?
[09:52] <fabbione> it's a duplicate of another one...
[09:52] <jbailey> mdz: It's literally adding the line: +#define IN_MASK_ADD0x20000000
[09:52] <jbailey> mdz: To the header.
[09:52] <ajmitch_> morning all
[09:52] <jbailey> tepsipakki: What sort of problem are you facing?  I tested resume from lvm swap 2 days ago on my laptop with no problems.
[09:52] <tepsipakki> jbailey: i tested it several times on monday
[09:53] <mdz> sabdfl: er, I never heard back from you or scott
[09:53] <mdz> sabdfl: or claire
[09:53] <sabdfl> ok
[09:53] <tepsipakki> jbailey: I'll test it tomorrow to make sure, and to get the message from boot
[09:53] <jbailey> tepsipakki: First take a look at /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf.  Is the RESUME= line set?
[09:53] <mdz> so I didn't announce a meeting
[09:53] <sabdfl> i'm here, just :-)
[09:54] <tepsipakki> jbailey: yes
[09:54] <\sh> hmm..who is responsible for the wiki.ubuntu.com?
[09:54] <mdz> jbailey: if that's the only change, then let's get it in
[09:54] <Kamion> mdz: running daily-live builds now, so we'll see how the sizes look. I've re-enabled the cron jobs.
[09:55] <mdz> Kamion: sounds good
[09:55] <Kamion> can't believe we were shipping all those powerpc initrds; I should've checked /install/ earlier :)
[09:56] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 'kay.  I will need you to add the word 'break' to your kernel command line.
[09:56] <tepsipakki> jbailey: sounds cool ;)
[09:56] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Then when you're inside the initramfs-tools, make sure that your RESUME= line is defined in /conf/initramfs.conf
[09:56] <jbailey> tepsipakki: What's the path that's there?
[09:57] <doko> mdz: please accept openoffice.org2-amd64_1.9.129-0.1ubuntu3-0ubuntu3, openoffice.org2-amd64_1.9.129-0.1ubuntu3-0ubuntu2 had too tight deps
[09:57] <mdz> doko: it's already in the archive
[09:57] <tepsipakki> jbailey: in /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf? /dev/mapper/poo-swap
[09:58] <sabdfl> fabbione: why?
[09:58] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 8-P
[09:58] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 'kay, so when you're in the initramfs, that should trigger it fine.
[09:58] <doko> mdz: thanks, checked some minutes before
[09:58] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Do you have another machine that you can use to IRC from while you're looking at this?
[09:58] <fabbione> sabdfl: never mind.. it's yet another ISP in the middle falling apart
[09:58] <sabdfl> ok
[09:58] <tepsipakki> jbailey: the "break" makes it to boot interactively?
[09:59] <fabbione> never had so many problems recently
[09:59] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Right.  That tells it to give you a shell inside the initramfs
[09:59] <\sh> fabbione: you don't have problems with level3 and cogent? 
[09:59] <tepsipakki> jbailey: well, maybe my home installation uses lvm too, don't remember
[09:59] <fabbione> \sh: no.
[10:00] <\sh> but my company has *gnarf* we can't reach parts of romania anymore :(
[10:00] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Well.  If you can remember, set the RESUME variable exactly as you see it in that file.  Then look in scripts/local-premount
[10:00] <mdz> has anyone checked if the torrent tracker is working for RC?
[10:00] <mdz> the status page is giving its usual 'server error'
[10:01] <jbailey> tepsipakki: There's a script in there called 'suspend'
[10:01] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Follow the commands in there by hand, and let me know which one isn't behaving right.
[10:01] <jbailey> tepsipakki: The echo ${major}:${minor} >/sys/power/resume
[10:02] <jbailey> tepsipakki: command shouldn't return.
[10:02] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok, I'll write these down ;)
[10:02] <bddebian> Heh
[10:03] <mdz> mvo: what can we do about 16678 for 5.10, if anything?
[10:05] <mvo> mdz: I have no idea yet, the strange thing is that it doesn't happen for "de and fr", I was only able to reproduce it for it_IT
[10:05] <mdz> mvo: curious
[10:05] <mvo> mdz: yes
[10:05] <mdz> mvo: so it is supposed to work?
[10:06] <seb128> gdm doesn't detect new locale without beeing restarted
[10:06] <mvo> mdz: seb128 thinks that gdm should be restarted in any case if new locales are generated
[10:06] <seb128> restart = /etc/init.d/gdm restart
[10:07] <fabbione> is there anything that actually detects locales changes when in "daemon" mode?
[10:07] <seb128> mvo: that's my experience with it from before hoary
[10:07] <fabbione> since the daemon inherits the env from the moment in which it's executed
[10:07] <fabbione> seb128: imho NOTABUG
[10:08] <mvo> seb128: curiously it did work for fr and de (see pitts comment too)
[10:08] <jbailey> mvo: Doesn't restarting gdm cause the session to restart?
[10:08] <pitti> fabbione: it's not about the env
[10:08] <fabbione> pitti: it's a dameon..
[10:08] <pitti> fabbione: it's about re-reading "locale -a" when the current session ends
[10:08] <seb128> fabbione: what I said
[10:08] <jbailey> Otherwise it's easy to add to the list.
[10:08] <seb128> jbailey: yep it does
[10:08] <fabbione> pitti: locale -a | wc -l
[10:08] <fabbione> 17
[10:09] <fabbione> pitti: which one should pick than?
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: all
[10:09] <seb128> fabbione: the issue is
[10:09] <seb128> - run gdm
[10:09] <jbailey> mvo, seb128: Then restarting automatically would be a fairly large mistake, I think.
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: the problem is not that gdm itself has the wrong locale
[10:09] <seb128> generate a new locale
[10:09] <mvo> jbailey: yes, we can't do that
[10:09] <seb128> pick it from the language menu on login screen
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: but that it does not offer new locales for the next session
[10:09] <seb128> you get a message saying it's a known language
[10:10] <fabbione> i am with seb128 on this one
[10:10] <pitti> somewhere in the gdm code there must be a function that reads available locales
[10:10] <fabbione> i might temporary add locales for other reasons
[10:10] <fabbione> and i don't want them available on gdm
[10:10] <mvo> the strange thing is that gdm offer the it locale but then complains on login
[10:10] <pitti> fabbione: if there is a locale *after* the session ended, it shuold be available for the next one
[10:10] <mvo> s/it/"it_IT"/
[10:11] <pitti> right
[10:11] <fabbione> pitti:not necessarely
[10:11] <pitti> fabbione: gdm shuold either not offer the new locale at all, or it should work for the next session
[10:11] <pitti> fabbione: so either way you look at it, it's a bug
[10:12] <seb128> pitti: we have it since warty
[10:12] <fabbione> pitti: it's a chicken egg
[10:12] <fabbione> pitti: i would rather leave it as it is
[10:12] <pitti> seb128: sure, I'm not arguing that we must/can fix it for breezy
[10:12] <fabbione> well known behaviours
[10:12] <fabbione> -s
[10:12] <pitti> I'm just confirming that this is broken
[10:12] <seb128> yeah, that's known to be since before hoary :)
[10:12] <seb128> but nobody cared enough to fix it before
[10:12] <seb128> so it can wait after 5.10 now
[10:12] <pitti> so, some locales just have bad luck :-)
[10:13] <fabbione> pitti: who cares about it_IT anyway
[10:13] <fabbione> ;)
[10:13] <mvo> heh :)
[10:13] <sistpoty> is (rescheduled) TB-meeting now?
[10:13] <pitti> fabbione: they should make good spaghettis, not good locales :-)
[10:13] <mvo> and great pizza
[10:13] <mvo> *yum*
[10:14] <fabbione> pitti: that's why i cook and my desktop is in pure english :)
[10:14] <pitti> fabbione: I like your attitude
[10:14] <diamond> is there a known hindi display glitch in the installer? searching bugzilla for 'hindi' shows up nothing. this is a (very bad) photo of the issue: http://diamond.nonado.net/misc/pics/hindi.jpg
[10:14] <diamond> this is from the rc btw
[10:14] <pitti> fabbione: I have a German desktop and don't cook every day
[10:14] <fabbione> pitti: heheh
[10:14] <pitti> diamond: yes, known bug
[10:14] <diamond> pitti: grand, thanks
[10:14] <fabbione> i don't cook everyday either
[10:16] <poningru> did someone say hindi?
[10:16] <Simira> hi fabbione, how are you?
[10:16] <fabbione> hey Simira !
[10:16] <fabbione> Simira: i am fine thanks and you?
[10:16] <poningru> oh
[10:16] <Simira> fabbione: harassing Tollef to get the kitchen done. Have to get things in order for the party on saturday. Moving-in-party
[10:17] <tepsipakki> jbailey: just crossed my mind: would it suffice if I opened up the initrd-img and see what's inside?
[10:17] <fabbione> Simira: hehehe
[10:17] <seb128> mdz: can we drop the gdm Depends on ubuntu-artwork and "desktop" it instead?
[10:17] <jbailey> tepsipakki: that would let you make sure the conffile was updated, but I generally assume it is.
[10:17] <jbailey> tepsipakki: The problem is likely elsewhere.
[10:17] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok
[10:18] <jbailey> tepsipakki: I include that step for completeness because if it's *not*, we could spend hours troubleshooting a very simply problem. ;)
[10:19] <tepsipakki> jbailey: it's my laptop, but it is online so I can easily take a look
[10:19] <mdz> seb128: I would prefer not to do any seed changes before final.  what bugs would it fix?
[10:20] <mdz> s/seed/desktop or minimal or standard seed/
[10:20] <sabdfl> does anything require the artwork in minimal? usplash?
[10:20] <seb128> mdz: people complaining because they have forced to use the panel logo branding
[10:21] <seb128> mdz: would a panel patch with a gconf key for that been accepted?
[10:21] <jdong> hey, I'm trying to make flashplayer/msttcorefonts style fetcher packages for w32codecs and libdvdcss
[10:22] <jdong> any pointers? ;)
[10:22] <jdong> decided breezy-extras needs to be a bit more legal
[10:22] <mdz> seb128: for kubuntu and edubuntu, or someone else?
[10:23] <mdz> well, not kubuntu obviously
[10:23] <seb128> mdz: for anybody who wants to change the panel logo
[10:23] <mdz> seb128: people who want to run ubuntu but with the gnome foot?
[10:23] <seb128> mdz: let's say GNOME liveCD
[10:23] <mdz> I see
[10:23] <seb128> by example
[10:24] <infinity> jdong : There's no way to make that legal.
[10:24] <seb128> I don't really get why we force the artwork installation
[10:24] <infinity> jdong : The difference is that flash and msttcorefonts are freely available, we're just not allowed to distribute them.
[10:24] <mdz> I thought we added that dep intentionally to solve a problem
[10:24] <seb128> mdz: the workaround are easy, we can keep that the current way for 5.10 if you prefer
[10:24] <jdong> infinity: no; but it shifts the legality from me to the users :)
[10:25] <jdong> infinity: Gentoo's been doing this for ages, and nobody's gone after them
[10:25] <infinity> jdong : w32codecs, on the other hand, is not freely available at all.  The only legal package you could do is one that copies the files from the user's Windows partition.
[10:25] <seb128> mdz: gdm default theme is ubuntu one, I though it was due to that
[10:25] <mdz> seb128: sounds right
[10:25] <mdz> seb128: I really prefer not to change the dep at this late stage
[10:25] <mdz> seb128: what are the workarounds currently? dpkg-divert?
[10:25] <Riddell> Kamion: there's no torrents for the kubuntu install CDs
[10:26] <infinity> jdong : For w32codecs, where would you fetch it FROM?.. In the end, someone's still distributing it illegally, so you may as well just point users at that remote deb, if that's what they really want to do.
[10:26] <fabbione> hmmm
[10:26] <mdz> there is no gconf key etc. to set the panel logo currently?
[10:26] <\sh> jdong: gentoo pulls in the sources from somewhere...it's source...not distributed by gentoo 
[10:26] <jdong> infinity, \
[10:26] <fabbione> what did pull libaqbanking into main without the source??
[10:26] <jdong> infinity, \sh: it's from mplayer.hu... the authoritative source of w32codecs :)
[10:26] <seb128> mdz: install a variant of the icon for your the theme you use, or divert it
[10:26] <seb128> s/your//
[10:26] <bddebian> fabbione: How did it go to main??
[10:26] <\sh> jdong: which means, it doesn't distribute the source package
[10:27] <fabbione> mdz: sorry that was for you
[10:27] <jdong> \sh: they're binaries....
[10:27] <\sh> jdong: sure..but you know what I mean
[10:27] <\sh> jdong: the source of distribution is not gentoo :)
[10:28] <jdong> \sh: yeah, but how's that different from what I'm trying to accomplish?
[10:28] <mdz> fabbione: don't panic; new packages go into main by default and then get moved
[10:28] <fabbione> bddebian: how did it go to main without source
[10:28] <infinity> \sh : Yes, that's what he's driving at anyway, with a "fetcher package"... My point is that, no matter where you DL w32codecs from, it's still illegal, so why did you bother to add indirection?
[10:28] <fabbione> mdz: ah ok. wasn't the other way around before?
[10:28] <bddebian> fabbione: It should be Universe??
[10:29] <bddebian> Ohh
[10:29] <jdong> infinity: so the Backports team is free of legal blame
[10:29] <fabbione> bddebian: it's a completely different problem.. i am asking about the source.. 
[10:29] <seb128> mdz: what do you think about patch from http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17049 ? is that ok to upload ?
[10:29] <mdz> fabbione: did it build?
[10:29] <\sh> infinity: that's the idea of gentoo...they're pointing you to anywhere else...what gentoo is, is only python/bash scripts..nothing else..the rest comes from unknown places...they don't care
[10:29] <mdz> fabbione: I was waiting for the binaries so I could move it
[10:29] <infinity> jdong : Meh.  Fair enough.  If you need/want help with it, post-release, ping/mail me.
[10:29] <fabbione> mdz: it's on my local mirror.. that's why i noticed
[10:30] <jdong> infinity: sure... I'll see if I can modify the msttforeconts source to work in the meantime
[10:30] <jdong> (err, wow I'm dyslexic today)
[10:30] <mdz> seb128: hmm, I don't like it too much; I would rather disable the button honestly
[10:30] <bddebian> fabbione / mdz: You two are confusing me.  What of libaqbanking is in main?  apt-cache madison shows both in Universe here??
[10:30] <infinity> jdong : Make sure the files get installed to the same paths as they are in the current .deb
[10:30] <jdong> yep
[10:30] <mdz> bddebian: all of its binary packages
[10:31] <seb128> mdz: what's wrong about it? (not that I care either way)
[10:31] <mdz> bddebian: and I've just moved tem
[10:31] <bddebian> mdz: OK, gotcha, thx
[10:31] <mdz> seb128: not wrong, just intrusive
[10:32] <mdz> seb128: it's also ok with me to just leave it as-is for 5.10
[10:33] <mdz> hehe, we are in that time of the release when bug reporters start to lobby for their pet bugs to be fixed
[10:33] <Seveas> :)
[10:33] <bddebian> Heh
[10:34] <Seveas> it was not my pet bug (i created the patch) but I just didn't like the security issue disks-admin gives
[10:34] <Seveas> disbling the button would work too, this was just as easy though :)
[10:34] <seb128> mdz: right :)
[10:34] <seb128> Seveas: what security issue?
[10:35] <Seveas> seb128, browsing things as root
[10:35] <Seveas> or running gnome-cd/totem as root
[10:36] <seb128> Seveas: that as secure as running g-s-t tools or gdmsetup or synaptic with sudo imho
[10:37] <Seveas> agreed for totem/gnome-cd, but not for nautilus
[10:39] <fabbione> Kamion, mdz: one of your last ubuntu-meta uploads did kill ubuntu-desktop on sparc..
[10:39] <fabbione> is there any chance to get it fixed?
[10:39] <tepsipakki> jbailey: the initrd-img is fine
[10:39] <Zomb> mdz: again, please take my appologies for the bad sarcasm... and Knopper says he did not receive any fix.
[10:40] <fabbione> mdz:  powermanagement-interface and openoffice.org2* should be removed.. (they were not there, but apparently a refresh did add them back)
[10:40] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 'kay.  So you'll need to step through it and figure out why it's not poking the major:minor in.
[10:40] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Can you look to see what's in /sys/power/resume now?
[10:40] <jbailey> tepsipakki: (Just cat it, it's a plain file)
[10:40] <tepsipakki> jbailey: but the machine is not at my hands currently, so I can check those things tomorrow
[10:41] <tepsipakki> jbailey: or is there something I _can_ do it via ssh?
[10:41] <jbailey> tepsipakki: cat /sys/power/resume can be done now. =)
[10:41] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Let's see if it's actually being set in the first place.
[10:41] <tepsipakki> jbailey: 0:0
[10:41] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Yup, not set. =)
[10:41] <jbailey> tepsipakki: So I definetly need you to walk through that fiel and figure out why it's not being run.
[10:42] <mdz> Zomb: thank you.  if there is an upstream mailing list for cloop, please tell me and i will send patches there instead so that you receive them also
[10:42] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Putting your initramfs somewhere I can download it would help me look quickly for obvious things, too.
[10:42] <Zomb> mdz: Knopper has left LinuxTag and is constructing something on alioth right now
[10:42] <tepsipakki> jbailey: the image you mean?
[10:42] <jbailey> tepsipakki: S=)
[10:43] <ogra> thanks :)
[10:43] <doko> fabbione: could you start on OOo2 test build without java, please?
[10:44] <fabbione> doko: on what arch?
[10:44] <doko> sparc
[10:44] <fabbione> doko: yes in theory
[10:45] <doko> no, I mean in practice
[10:45] <tepsipakki> jbailey: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/tmp/
[10:45] <fabbione> doko: yes.. in a few minutes it will be practise
[10:46] <doko> thanks
[10:46] <fabbione> doko: is it just a random test to see if it builds, or is it know to fix the FTBFS?
[10:50] <jdong> SUCCESS :)
[10:50] <jdong> lol
[10:53] <jdong> I just put the installation and removal code in postinst/postrm... is that a no-no? ;)
[10:54] <fabbione> doko: ??
[10:55] <xTina> Is the daily installer from yesterday (Oct. 5) the same as the RC? I tested the automated installs in our labs just last night with that one, but I definitely would test the RC again if it isn't the same.
[10:55] <doko> fabbione: AFAIK, the build failure is in java related code, therefore the retry without java
[10:55] <fabbione> doko: ok
[10:56] <doko> fabbione: maybe keep the build tree around
[10:56] <fabbione> doko: yes.. i am doing it in a dedicate chroot
[10:57] <jbailey> jordi: File a bug against the translator for bad LC_COLLATE implementation ;)
[10:59] <sistpoty> mdz: is the rescheduled TB-Meeting today?
[11:00] <jordi> jbailey: maybe it was a BUG IN HIS LOCALE DATA!
[11:00] <hunger> Hehe... The RC announcements are all over the web, but I can't spot it on www.ubuntu.com:-)
[11:00] <jbailey> jordi: See?  And if it was all in Rosetta...
[11:00] <jordi> haha
[11:00] <hunger> Good work, guys. Breezy is a really great distri!
[11:01] <jordi> "you've got mud on your face...", Queen music for our wrestling,
[11:01] <[-Jarod-] > i agree :)
[11:01] <mdz> sistpoty: no, I didn't hear back from anyone in time
[11:01] <sistpoty> mdz: ok, thanks
[11:02] <jbailey> jordi: It's as good as any I can think of. =)
[11:03] <jcohen85> jbailey, well, the last update has slowed my startup by 10 seconds. There's a delay when setting up the network that i never had before.
[11:03] <jbailey> jcohen85: I thought we agreed that you were never updating again? ;)
[11:03] <jcohen85> i didn't
[11:03] <jcohen85> from the previous update
[11:17] <fabbione> doko: ENABLE_JAVA is already off on sparc
[11:18] <fabbione> i can try to rebuild tho
[11:18] <fabbione> i didn't test it for a while
[11:18] <doko> if you do have the cpu time ...
[11:19] <fabbione> doko: i will make space..
[11:19] <fabbione> not that i have much given release is close
[11:33] <zyga_amd64> hi
[11:37] <Kamion> fabbione: ubuntu-desktop does not depend on either powermanagement-interface or oo.o2 on sparc
[11:38] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, we just verified that, but i can't understand why they get pulled in..
[11:38] <fabbione> or better.. by waht
[11:38] <fabbione> what
[11:38] <zyga_amd64> I've just installed RC for amd64
[11:38] <fabbione> in a chroot is ok.. not on install
[11:38] <ploum> jdub, can I annoy you with planet ?  (I just want a 1.0 tarball)
[11:38] <fabbione> there must be a difference that's triggering the problem
[11:38] <zyga_amd64> I don't know if that is a known issue but users-admin pretty much crashes all the time
[11:39] <Kamion> (as per elsewhere, it's due to lack of architecture-specific Task: headers)
[11:40] <Kamion> zyga_amd64: I thought mvo fixed that today; have you tried upgrading to current?)
[11:41] <mvo> zyga_amd64: do you run 1.4.0-0ubuntu10?
[11:44] <doko> mdz: I think I found all bugs, for building and using OOo2 help. but I need another OOo2 upload (followed by an OOo2-amd64 upload)
[11:46] <mdz> doko: send me a diff, please
[11:47] <mdz> doko: this would enable help on all architectures?
[11:48] <doko> mdz: yes
[11:48] <g14> Will gnome integrate any of the patches for improving gnome startup time?
[11:49] <tseng> in 2.14 they will surely have a look
[11:50] <g14> tseng: One of the patches got rejected, because it breaks backwards compatibility for people who have gnome < 2.6 installed side by side with newer gnome
[11:50] <g14> But that one improves startup time for me personally about 6 seconds
[11:50] <tseng> sorry, you'll have to take that up with the gnome developer in question
[11:50] <Kamion> I think you'd be better off asking GNOME upstream directly about what they plan to do
[11:50] <Kamion> we're just another distributor, albeit one with fairly close connections to GNOME
[11:51] <g14> It doesnt make sense for gnome to distribute it if it breaks backwards compat
[11:51] <g14> But ubuntu doesnt have a problem with backwards compat
[11:51] <g14> So why not?
[11:52] <g14> Im not trying to flame, breezy is amazing
[11:52] <Kamion> I don't understand that claim, since people NFS-mount home directories between different distributions quite frequently
[11:53] <g14>  gconf-merge-tree /usr/local/gnome/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults
[11:53] <Kamion> in any case, these patches only seem to have been produced well after the stage in our release process when we could have considered integrating it for breezy
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> Oh My. JaneW, did you just about double the size of the wiki, or what? ;)
[11:53] <g14> gnome < 2.6 doesn't support merged configuration files
[11:53] <g14> No, for dapper
[11:53] <g14> Not breezy
[11:53] <fabbione> g14: wait to ask after breezy is released :)
[11:53] <tseng> file a bug in a few weeks :)
[11:53] <Kamion> we haven't started dapper development yet; we are concentrating very hard on getting breezy out the door right now.
[11:53] <fabbione> we are all a bit overloaded
[11:53] <g14> understood
[11:58] <fabbione> night everybody
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> can anyone braindump on those spec-pages?
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> wiki