[12:02] <JaneW> HiddenWolf: possibly :)
[12:02] <JaneW> HiddenWolf: and I just got started.... *efg*
[12:03] <JaneW> HiddenWolf: yes, if you are adding useful info and insights ;)
[12:03] <HiddenWolf> JaneW, no, i'll troll, what do you think? :P
[12:04] <Nafallo> lol
[12:05] <JaneW> HiddenWolf: nothing surprises me anymore *hide*
[12:05] <zyga_amd64> mvo, checking
[12:05] <zyga_amd64> mvo, yes
[12:06] <zyga_amd64> mvo, it still crashes
[12:06] <zyga_amd64> reboot, new kernel - brb
[12:06] <mdz> seb128: librsvg OK for upload
[12:09] <seb128> mdz: thanks
[12:09] <dand> mdz: thanks for looking at bug 8468 . would it be too late to include a patch for that in xkeyboard-config? (I know I should have pushed for this eariler)
[12:09] <mvo> zyga: hm, strange, works here (on my amd64)
[12:09] <mdz> seb128: what is your feeling on updating evolution-exchange to 2.4.1 as proposed in 16967?
[12:10] <mdz> dand: if you could attach a complete patch for breezy to the bug, we can consider it
[12:10] <Nafallo> mvo, zyga: wfm
[12:10] <dand> mdz: great! I'm working on it
[12:10] <HWolf> JaneW, get half of that implemented in dapper, and MS goes bankrupt. \o/
[12:10] <mdz> seb128: I'm not sure how broken it is currently
[12:11] <robertj> HWolf: half of what ;)
[12:11] <robertj> (for the latecomer)
[12:12] <seb128> mdz: that's a part of GNOME 2.12.1, didn't get uploaded because I thought jbailey was going to do it. Anyway it seems to be quite broken for every connector users atm and has no impact on the non-exchange users ... since it has been following GNOME freeze, patch review, etc, I would be fine with an update
[12:12] <jbailey> mdz: It seems to get frequent complains.  I tracked down the patch that should fix it, and it appears to be in evo-exchange 2.4.1.  The 2.4.1 update also includes fixes for two memory leaks.
[12:12] <mdz> jbailey,seb128: if you guys feel that it poses no significant risk to plain exchange users, go ahead, but do it soon
[12:12] <HWolf> robertj, JaneW is spamming the wiki with suggestions for DapperGoals / things to talk about on the next conference. 
[12:13] <seb128> mdz: I'll do it right now, thanks
[12:13] <mdz> jbailey: is 2.4.1 a conservative bugfix-only release?
[12:13] <mdz> er, s/plain exchange/plain evolution/
[12:13] <JaneW> HWolf: if you want spam subscribe to those pages :P
[12:13] <seb128> mdz: doesn't impact on non-exchange users yeah
[12:13] <robertj> ohh
[12:14] <jbailey> mdz: All of the patches but two have bugzilla entries that they fix.  Of the two, one is a memleak fix, the other is the fix that we need.
[12:14] <robertj> HWolf: hehe, go for it girl
[12:14] <seb128> mdz: and the package is borked for month :/ Evolution was built without the corresponding lib, but since we ignored bug for some months ...
[12:14] <HWolf> robertj, call me a girl again and I'll show you. :P
[12:14] <robertj> (I meant Jane ;)
[12:15] <robertj> DapperGoals deems not exist yet per-say
[12:15] <jbailey> mdz: The original set of bugs are the ones we talked about for me getting the exchange server.
[12:16] <mdz> dholbach: please send me a debdiff for gparted if you still want it in
[12:16] <HWolf> robertj, go figure, we're still waiting on breezy. 
[12:17] <the--dud> is there no anon cvs for breezy?
[12:17] <robertj> HWolf: I'm excited. This is the first time I will have made it all the way to a release without running unstable of some sort
[12:17] <the--dud> thought I'd do some bug hacking as I have some spare time...
[12:17] <jbailey> the--dud: What are you looking for?
[12:17] <robertj> JaneW: where are you spamming at?
[12:17] <the--dud> just a current development source tree generally
[12:18] <jbailey> the--dud: It's not one big source tree.  With 1000-odd packages in made, that would be excessive.
[12:18] <the--dud> so that any bug hacking I'd be doing isnt done by someone else while I actually work with it
[12:18] <HWolf> robertj, take a look at wiki.u.c/RecentChanges
[12:18] <the--dud> jbailey, was thinking the main here ;)
[12:18] <robertj> ahh, should have thought of that
[12:18] <jbailey> the--dud: main is 1000-odd package.  Universe is an order of magnitude larger than that.
[12:19] <the--dud> sorry, should have stated it more clearly. sources for breezy install cd
[12:19] <the--dud> only current development if such a thing is available
[12:19] <ogra> universe > 16000 packages
[12:19] <jbailey> the--dud: Mostly we pick bugs in bugzilla, assign them to ourselves and chase them.  If you're looking for things that will be accepted for Breezy, mdz posted a list to ubuntu-devel recently.
[12:19] <jbailey> the--dud: Other patches are not likely to be accepted now.
[12:20] <the--dud> yeah, the mail post with subject "Release status: 5.10RC complete, approaching 5.10 final"
[12:20] <the--dud> which gives a link to the bugzilla page right
[12:20] <jbailey> That would be the one. =)
[12:20] <zyga_amd64> re
[12:20] <zyga_amd64> okay :-)
[12:20] <zyga_amd64> fglrx fails to load
[12:20] <the--dud> thats what got me coming here in the first place today hehe
[12:21] <zyga_amd64> mvo, I'm running latest and greates - going to check the problem again
[12:22] <mvo> zyga_amd64: make sure you run ubuntu10 of gnome-system-tools
[12:22] <zyga_amd64> I am
[12:22] <zyga_amd64> mvo, was the problem related to sudo?
[12:24] <zyga_amd64> mvo, okay it doesn't crash but there is a bug for sure
[12:24] <zyga_amd64> I added a user, no funky characters in password and login
[12:24] <zyga_amd64> then I edited the user and entered non ascii description
[12:24] <zyga_amd64> I clicked okay and closed the application
[12:25] <zyga_amd64> the changes were not applied
[12:25] <zyga_amd64> is there some low-level issue with non-asci stuff in /etc/passwd?
[12:26] <mvo> zyga_amd64: the crash in users-admins is a problem in the internal md5 implementation of users-admin, it uses crypt(3) now 
[12:27] <zyga_amd64> mvo, I see
[12:27] <mvo> zyga_amd64: no idea, I recently added stuff was only a fix for the amd64 crash
[12:27] <zyga_amd64> mvo, I'm sure I was running latest g-s-t when it crashed before reboot
[12:27] <zyga_amd64> mvo, anyway the bug 'let's put non-ascii stuff into user description and see it dissapear' is still there
[12:28] <mvo> zyga_amd64: is it already reported?
[12:29] <zyga_amd64> mvo, checking
[12:29] <zyga_amd64> 70 bugs on g-s-t ;)
[12:30] <mvo> zyga_amd64: yeah :/
[12:31] <zyga_amd64> wtf?
[12:31] <zyga_amd64> is this amd64 specific or did we just dump a really usefull tool?
[12:31] <ajmitch> zyga_amd64: it had a habit of screwing up grub configs, iirc
[12:32] <zyga_amd64> ajmitch, I see
[12:32] <zyga_amd64> no more GUI tool that enables dual booting with windows :/
[12:32] <ajmitch> I heard that some people lost their update-grub-inserted entries because of it 
[12:32] <zyga_amd64> hmm
[12:33] <zyga_amd64> actually windows was detected..
[12:35] <zyga_amd64> mvo, it's already filed: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12532
[12:38] <seb128> 'night mvo
[12:38] <mvo> zyga_amd64: ok, thanks
[12:39] <mvo> seb128: thanks, n8
[12:44] <doko> mdz: OOo2 patch sent
[12:50] <zyga_> anyone with radeon+amd64 around?
[12:50] <zyga_> (II) LoadModule: "fglrx"
[12:50] <zyga_> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.o
[12:50] <zyga_> Duplicate symbol rol_long in /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.o
[12:50] <zyga_> Also defined in /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libint10.a
[12:56] <jmg> guys, latest update breaks my grub and installs lilo
[12:56] <jmg> and i cant reinstall grub
[12:56] <jmg> cant boot
[12:56] <jmg> i beleive its because im using lvm that lilo wont boot
[12:59] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm still getting preview on this page http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/5.10/  do I just need to be more patient?
[01:01] <Surak> Hello, I just like to report some progress on grub-install running forever on hard drives < 120gb. I noticed that if you create a small /boot partition at the beginning of the disk, it will work, inspite of the fact it still takes several minutes.
[01:01] <Surak> If you create a big / with everything inside it, grub-install will take forever. (I left it for two days here and nothing happened)
[01:04] <the--dud> heh, installing breezy rc1 as a vmware virtual machine now
[01:04] <Surak> I noticed this on every hard drive/mobo combination I have access to, and the minimum hard drive I noticed this is a 120gb one. 80gb ones works just fine. 
[01:04] <the--dud> breeze sure has a lot of packages it needs to install!
[01:07] <dholbach> could it be that  popcon.ubuntu.com  data is stale?
[01:07] <crimsun> more than likely
[01:07] <dholbach> *cry*
[01:08] <Surak> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15594 Is something I'm referring to. 
[01:09] <ogra> dholbach, there are not many people using it
[01:10] <dholbach> ogra: apart from that it lists gcc-4.0 as a universe package
[01:10] <ogra> dholbach, and thim was theonly one who cared for it afaik
[01:10] <ogra> thom
[01:10] <the--dud> hehe, amazing how much stuff breeze comes default with now... beanshell, wtf?
[01:10] <ogra> dholbach, a good project to take over ;)
[01:11] <dholbach> ogra: ...
[01:11] <dholbach> :)
[01:11] <ogra> :)
[01:11] <sabdfl> ANNOUNCING: Breezy release party, in London!
[01:12] <sabdfl> hmm... we should put up a page on the wiki and let people coordinate release parties
[01:12] <ogra> sabdfl, there is a wiki page for it anywhere
[01:12] <Nafallo> sabdfl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseParty :-)
[01:13] <dholbach> i dont get why they didnt use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseParty
[01:13] <dholbach> but ... :)
[01:13] <dholbach> "it's a wiki"
[01:13] <ogra> hehe
[01:13] <Nafallo> dholbach: we should rename that one to HoaryReleaseParty :-P
[01:14] <the--dud> I wonder if the ubuntu wiki is one of the very few wikis which requires https even for anonymous access
[01:14] <dholbach> Nafallo: and the other one to ReleaseParty? :)
[01:14] <Surak> is there a ubuntu for sparc? http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
[01:14] <sabdfl> bugger
[01:14] <sabdfl> i just created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseParties
[01:14] <sabdfl> doh
[01:14] <dholbach> haha :)
[01:14] <ogra> Surak, yes
[01:14] <ogra> Surak, talk to fabbione tomorrow... images should be at ports.ubuntu.com
[01:14] <tseng> it has 2 users :)
[01:14] <Surak> :-)
[01:14] <whiprush> i am doing an announcement for the release parties on the fridge in a bit.
[01:15] <Surak> Would like to know what 'unknow' system is :-D
[01:15] <dholbach> ooohhh baby... the FRIDGE :)
[01:15] <Surak> I thought it was a watch :-)
[01:16] <Nafallo> ogra: go create one then :-)
[01:16] <ogra> Nafallo, my good ole indigo cant even run a console with its extreme graphics card
[01:16] <ogra> (indigo2)
[01:16] <tseng> dude two of the fridge random bits are inspired by me
[01:16] <tseng> awesomeness
[01:17] <Nafallo> hihi
[01:17] <Surak> hehe
[01:18] <the--dud> erm, how can I bypass X from initializing in ubuntu breezy?
[01:18] <the--dud> it obviously failed to set the video driver as vmware, so it locks up completely
[01:18] <Diablo-D3> hey all
[01:18] <Surak> Just noticed some sort of hippie bug: Default colors of GRUB are very sad - white letters on black. It gives negative feelings.
[01:18] <Diablo-D3> any word on when ardour-gtk will be fixed?
[01:18] <Surak> this is #14687
[01:18] <ogra> Diablo-D3, did you file a bug ? 
[01:19] <tseng> hm we are making alot of noise guys, this is bad.
[01:19] <Diablo-D3> ogra: um, it depends on packages that arent in universe
[01:19] <Diablo-D3> ogra: the package maint should already know about that one since he caused it ;)
[01:20] <ogra> Diablo-D3, again, did you file a bug ? 
[01:20] <ogra> we have no package maintainers...
[01:20] <Diablo-D3> uh, why would I?
[01:20] <Diablo-D3> er, crap, universe
[01:20] <ogra> we only work through the bugs....
[01:20] <Diablo-D3> damnit >_<
[01:20] <whiprush> hey is "ubuntero" the preferred term?
[01:20] <ogra> Diablo-D3, thanks a lot :)
[01:20] <Diablo-D3> ogra: I'm used to packages having maintainers.
[01:20] <Surak> whiprush : ubuntero? 
[01:21] <Nafallo> whiprush: not according to launchpad :-)
[01:21] <ogra> Diablo-D3, we're only about 30 MOTUs caring for 16000 packages ;)
[01:21] <whiprush> I think it was Ubuntite before.
[01:21] <sabdfl> Ubuntero sounds cooler. more fridge. less... ite
[01:21] <ogra> Diablo-D3, feel frr to join us in #ubuntu-motu :)
[01:21] <mdz> doko: still here?
[01:21] <ogra> 'free
[01:21] <whiprush> ubuntero it is then
[01:21] <Diablo-D3> how about "God"
[01:22] <Diablo-D3> hrm, wait, that'd only describe me
[01:22] <Nafallo> Diablo-D3: ehm, are you bddebian? :-P
[01:22] <grayman> hah
[01:22] <crimsun> sorry, but only sabdfl can claim that in here.
[01:22] <ogra> Diablo-D3, sounds like we could need your power to rule the universe ;)
[01:23] <Diablo-D3> ogra: ruling the universe is so boring
[01:23] <Diablo-D3> I have poeple do that for me
[01:23] <doko> mdz: half awake, no more uploads today ;)
[01:23] <ogra> Diablo-D3, boooring :)
[01:23] <mdz> doko: ok, sent mail
[01:23] <ogra> Diablo-D3, do something with these muscles
[01:24] <Diablo-D3> if there were women in here, they'd be all over me.
[01:24] <ogra> just flexing isnt impressing
[01:24] <Surak> Diablo-D3: use your muscled fingers to open bugs ;-)
[01:24] <grayman> Diablo-D3, yeah. do something cool
[01:24] <ogra> even they are more impressed by bugfixers :)
[01:24] <tseng> dudes
[01:24] <tseng> flex all you want in #-motu :P
[01:25] <ogra> *g*
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> tseng: happy?
[01:25] <tseng> thanks.
[01:25] <grayman> lol
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> oh wow.
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> best. bug. ever.
[01:25] <grayman> yeah
[01:25] <grayman> nice one
[01:26] <grayman> they should provide a patch that removes windows boot from grub
[01:26] <doko> mdz: upgrade issues: no, we require the same base version, and we add one file (shlib), which was not in any upload with the base version
[01:26] <Diablo-D3> yeah, but then how would I test new viruses?
[01:26] <grayman> :)
[01:27] <grayman> good point
[01:27] <tseng> ok guys to be a little more clear, its release crunch time, these guys need to work in here w/o alot of excess noise
[01:27] <Diablo-D3> breezy is rsn now, isnt it?
[01:27] <ogra> Diablo-D3, yes, so lets keep the channel on topic... noise cn go to #ubuntu-motu
[01:28] <doko> binaries: I have some from the -help build, making some overnight built from the original ooo2 source
[01:29] <Surak>  #ubuntu-noise
[01:29] <mdz> doko: ok, please do a hoary upgrade test and then upload when ready
[01:41] <sabdfl> night all
[02:08] <lamont__> admittedly not current breezy yet
[02:11] <ogra> lamont__, remove gnome-screensaver
[02:11] <ogra> we dropped it again
[02:14] <crimsun> it should be in universe [soon] , actually
[02:14] <crimsun> oh, it is.
[02:14] <lamont__> ogra: ok... does that happen automatically on a hoary upgrade
[02:14] <lamont__> ?>
[02:15] <ogra> #it wont be there on a hoary upgrade... it was only there for 5 days during breezy
[02:15] <ogra> similar to polypaudio...
[02:21] <lamont__> ah, ok
[02:25] <bob2> heh
[02:29] <ogra> mentos !
[02:31] <ajmitch> ogra: how could you? :)
[02:31] <ogra> :)
[02:32] <bddebian> The Freshmaker ;-P
[02:33] <ogra> bddebian, nah, the fruity ones were way cooler
[02:33] <bddebian> :-)
[02:34] <ajmitch> hopefully something with plenty of sugar
[02:34] <bob2> hope it's better than the boiled things from spain
[02:35] <bob2> they become a currency so people would have something to eat between 8am breakfast and 10pm dinner
[02:36] <ogra> ajmitch, at least it wont be pumpkin ...
[02:37] <Riddell> hmm, none of the mirrors have picked up the kubuntu RC
[02:37] <ajmitch> ogra: yeah, I'm not sure if I get to eat with the real conference attendees (not just the groupies) :)
[02:38] <bob2> eat poutine
[02:38] <bob2> over and over
[02:38] <ajmitch> heh
[02:38] <ogra> ajmitch, sure you will... 
[02:38] <ajmitch> ogra: then I'd better sort that out soon..
[02:38] <Riddell> ajmitch: Poutine
[02:39] <Riddell> ah, bob2 beat me
[02:39] <bob2> lifeless: bring me back some poutine
[02:40] <lifeless> bob2: what branch did you want registered?
[02:41] <ogra> could i ask any australian for a glass vegemite to bring to UBZ ? my GF dies for it ...
[02:41] <ogra> a small one would be enough
[02:42] <bob2> haha
[02:42] <womble> ogra: Run away while you still can.  Anyone who likes that smegma of satan is not to be trusted.
[02:43] <ajmitch> ogra: want me to try & bring some vegemite?
[02:44] <ogra> any vegemite will do... 
[02:44] <ajmitch> sure :)
[02:44] <lifeless> ogra: put her out of her misery
[02:44] <ogra> even NZ one
[02:44] <lifeless> ogra: thats a terrible substance she is abusing :)
[02:44] <bob2> womble: traitor
[02:44] <lifeless> bob2: weakling
[02:44] <HrdwrBob> I love vegemite
[02:44] <bob2> lifeless: hm, one sec
[02:44] <bob2> lifeless: I forget, does pqm register branches or archives?
[02:44] <lifeless> HrdwrBob: I'm sorry ;)
[02:44] <lifeless> bob2: archives
[02:44] <ogra> lifeless, she's known for consuming terrible stuff.... 
[02:45] <womble> bob2: Hey, I haven't told him the secret of how to avoid getting mauled by the dropbears
[02:45] <lifeless> womble: its easy to avoid getting mauled...
[02:45] <ogra> womble, wasnt that a hat with forks in it ? 
[02:45] <lifeless> womble: avoiding the squash is the problem
[02:45] <womble> ogra: Forks?!? Are you crazy?!?  That'll attract them like nothing else.
[02:46] <ogra> lol
[02:46] <lifeless> not to mention poking holes in your head
[02:47] <lifeless> bob2: so email me, gpg signed, the details please
[02:47] <bob2> lifeless: will do
[03:20] <dholbach> good night guys
[03:20] <dholbach> mdz: i will look at gparted tomorrow
[03:20] <dholbach> (later)
[03:21] <dholbach> *wave*
[03:42] <sadam> bmonty: you around?
[03:50] <Riddell> mdz: kubuntu announcement in queue
[03:50] <mdz> Riddell: awaiting moderation?
[03:50] <Riddell> mdz: yes
[03:51] <Riddell> none of the mirrors seem to have picked it up though
[03:52] <mdz> let me know when they have, and I'll let it through
[03:52] <whiprush> Riddell: mind cc'ing me? I can fridge it right now.
[03:52] <Riddell> whiprush: http://www.kubuntu.org/announcements/breezy-release-candidate.php
[03:53] <whiprush> ta
[03:54] <whiprush> Riddell: I need to mail you soon, we need a kubuntu guy for the fridge.
[03:55] <whiprush> Riddell: I think you should convince aseigo. :P
[03:55] <Riddell> because he doesn't have enough to do :)
[03:55] <mdz> whiprush: hold off on the fridge until it's actually published on the mirrors, too
[03:55] <mdz> Riddell: did Kamion already trigger a push?
[03:56] <whiprush> mdz: I can publish it in the future, when would a good time be?
[03:56] <Riddell> mdz: I don't know, it's been a good 8 hours
[03:59] <mdz> Riddell: pushing now
[03:59] <mdz> it took about an hour for ubuntu
[03:59] <Riddell> thanks
[03:59] <whiprush> I'll push the fride thing out 2 hours then.
[04:00] <ajmitch> whiprush: thanks for putting the motu report up :)
[04:01] <whiprush> :)
[04:01] <whiprush> wait until post-release. I got a good long distance plan.
[04:01] <whiprush> mdz: I'm calling you first!
[04:01] <jsgotangco> fridge it!
[04:01] <whiprush> dev interviews rule!
[04:02] <mdz> whiprush: this is an unlisted wall!
[04:02] <ajmitch> whiprush: going to UBZ?
[04:02] <whiprush> "mdz released ubuntu twice last night ... it was wonderful."
[04:02] <whiprush> ajmitch: going to try, if I can it will only be for a few days."
[04:03] <ajmitch> whiprush: you'd be able to get in a few inebriated interviews there
[04:03] <whiprush> yeah, because people would love "drunk source package management with scott james remnant."
[04:04] <whiprush> hmmm, we really need an #ubuntu-sounder or somesuch for the fridge and other non-development related marketing.
[04:04] <whiprush> who can I propose this to?
[04:04] <ajmitch> just do it
[04:05] <whiprush> metal. as soon as I get home.
[04:07] <Riddell> mdz: anything you can do about the lack of torrents for the kubuntu install CDs?
[04:08] <mdz> Riddell: hmm, not without fiddling things by hand.  why weren't they generated?
[04:09] <Riddell> mdz: no idea
[04:09] <Riddell> but I don't see them at http://82.211.81.152/kubuntu/5.10/
[04:14] <bob2> wow, suspend3 is sick
[04:14] <bob2> but cool
[04:15] <mdz> bob2: those two words mean the same thing in contemporary US slang
[04:16] <jdong> am I the only to experience EXTREME FF slowness at suspend2.net?
[04:16] <jdong> especially with wheel scroll and autoscroll?
[04:16] <mdz> Riddell: I don't even see RC on releases.ubuntu.com
[04:16] <bob2> "The answer is, of course, another ioctl() command, IOCTL_KMALLOC, which executes a get_zeroed_page() call and returns the address of the resulting page to user space. "
[04:16] <mdz> (kubuntu RC)
[04:16] <bob2> mdz: hah
[04:17] <Riddell> mdz: it depends what IP you get, it's only on http://82.211.81.152/kubuntu/5.10/ as far as I can tell
[04:17] <mdz> Riddell: something's busted
[04:19] <mdz> whiprush: community council
[04:19] <mdz> Riddell: I don't think it's making it onto syncproxy, so it won't get out to the mirrors
[04:25] <Riddell> mdz: anything we can do tonight then?
[04:29] <mdz> Riddell: I don't think so; we need elmo or Znarl
[04:29] <mdz> Riddell: we can either wake them up, or wait until tomorrow.  I recommend the latter.
[04:30] <mdz> Riddell: send mail to elmo explaining the situation and he'll look into it when he wakes up
[04:31] <Riddell> mdz: ok
[04:34] <Riddell> mdz: sabdfl said I should get KDE 3.4.3 into breezy since we now have the sources
[04:34] <jsgotangco> Riddell, wow!
[04:35] <jsgotangco> hmm i seem to have a post-update info notification that is stuck
[04:35] <jsgotangco> i click on it and it doesn't contain anything
[04:37] <mdz> Riddell: I think that's a little aggressive, but it's your funeral ;-)
[04:37] <mdz> (and sabdfl's)
[04:37] <bob2> new upstream after RC? daring!
[04:38] <neuralis> jsgotangco, i saw a few of those. they eventually went away by themselves.
[04:38] <Riddell> KDE release schedule hasn't fitted in the ubuntu as well as it did last release
[04:38] <Riddell> ah well, when I'm KDE release manager..
[04:40] <jsgotangco> Riddell, so evilll...=)
[04:41] <Riddell> ...it'll be a strict 3 month release cycle!
[04:41] <bob2> that's a full 2 times better than gnome
[04:41] <mdz> Riddell: one month of feature development, one month of bugfixing, and one month of sheer panic
[04:41] <Amaranth> haha
[04:44] <Riddell> new koffice on monday too, but those karbon developers seem to have been developing a bit too much in branch http://koffice.kde.org/announcements/changelog-1.4.2.php
[04:57] <dobwan> whiprush, you about? I'm trying to play A/V files you got the time?
[05:03] <bddebian> Riddell: :-)
[05:04] <daniels> slomo_: we've been asked by the debian release managers to hold off until all the other transitions are complete
[05:39] <fabbione> morning
[05:41] <bddebian> Hello fabbione 
[05:41] <magnon> goodd morning
[06:01] <jdub> elmo: ping
[06:08] <crimsun> lamont: not too different from say vlc & libpostproc-dev
[06:09] <lamont> crimsun: still a policy violation
[06:09] <mdz> lamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[06:09] <mdz> it was seeded late and I think some inclusion reports are lacking or unreviewed
[06:10] <lamont> meaning that you're dealing with deciding which package moves to the "correct" component?
[06:11] <lamont> ew.  hopefully we won't demote the kernel packages...
[06:11] <mdz> lamont: it means that there's investigation to be done
[06:11] <lamont> mdz: and it means that you're aware of it. :0)
[06:12] <mdz> yes, though it was temporarily off my radar
[06:13] <lamont> hppa's buildd is spinning trying to build python-qt3 every cron.daily run, is the reason I noticed...
[06:17] <tritium> Kamion, ping
[06:20] <bddebian> WTF is <X11/bitmaps/icon> supposed to bring in??
[06:21] <mdz> tritium: I wouldn't expect him for at least another 3 hours
[06:21] <tritium> mdz, no problem.  Thanks.
[06:21] <bddebian> Nevermind, it's not build-depping on xbitmaps
[06:22] <bddebian> Not that anyone was gonna answer anyway ;-P
[06:23] <daniels> bddebian: i was, but i don't look at IRC every minute
[06:24] <bddebian> daniels: Well why not?? :-)
[06:24] <tritium> bddebian, how late are you going to be up?
[06:25] <bddebian> tritium: I should hit it pretty soon
[06:25] <bddebian> I should actually be in bed already but thanks to dholbach we have this HUGE list ;-)
[06:25] <tritium> okay, I was going to ask you to request the sync of xfig
[06:26] <bddebian> tritium: You want me to e-mail him?  I'm already his favorite PITA :-)
[06:27] <tritium> bddebian, I don't mind emailing him.
[06:27] <bddebian> Boy is xppaut a lame-ass package :-)
[06:36] <bddebian> Aw fsck
[06:41] <lamont> elmo: is king mad, or is it just me?
[06:47] <fabbione> doko: wake up dude
[07:10] <bob2> wasabi: why's tomcat4 not in ubuntu?
[07:14] <jdub> haha: "THe most trusted colour in the world: WHAT CAN BROWN DO FOR YOU?"
[07:14] <jdub> ^ UPS ad on USA tv
[07:14] <Amaranth> you've never seen those?
[07:14] <Amaranth> UPS commercials :)
[07:15] <tritium> jdub, are you already in the US?
[07:15] <infinity> UPS isn't terribly popular in Australia, and maybe jdub doesn't watch much North American TV...
[07:15] <jdub> tritium: yeah
[07:16] <bob2> jdub: come to my lug!
[07:17] <whiprush> bob2: you're in the us?
[07:17] <whiprush> thought you lived in the uk for some reason.
[07:18] <Amaranth> infinity: they play those so much if you've managed to walk by a TV in the US in the last year or two you've probably see them
[07:18] <tritium> jdub, if you pass through New Mexico on your way to Old Mexico, you've got a place to stay
[07:19] <whiprush> jdub, if you want to experience urban decay, there's a place for you to stay in detroit also.
[07:19] <bob2> whiprush: I live in .au, but my lug could do with a jalapeno up it's tailpipe
[07:21] <whiprush> heh
[07:21] <Yagisan> bob2: where is your lug ?
[07:22] <bob2> Canberra
[07:22] <Yagisan> bob2: damm - just a bit too far
[07:29] <womble> bob2: You mean having the annual AusLUB meeting in Canberra wasn't enough for you?
[07:29] <womble> s/AusLUB/AusLUG/ dammit
[07:30] <bob2> then they moved it to NEW ZEALAND
[07:30] <fabbione> does Jani Monoses IRC?
[07:32] <crimsun> yes
[07:32] <crimsun> (janimo)
[07:32] <fabbione> ok thanks
[07:34] <Yagisan> bob2: that's just proof that New Zealand is part of Australia :-P
[07:35] <Lathiat> linux.conf.au is being held in new zealand too, so
[07:35] <Lathiat> nz is just a state of australia :)
[07:35] <jsgotangco> lol
[07:38] <Yagisan> nah - two states - north and south island :-P
[07:38] <Lathiat> haha
[07:47] <lifeless> Yagisan: wrong way around
[07:48] <lifeless> Yagisan: australia is west island....
[07:48] <lifeless> we just dont make a fuss to avoid upsetting them
[07:50] <lamont> mdz: amd64 livecd roots cleaned up, daily build started (albeit 30 minutes late)
[07:55] <fabbione> night lamont 
[07:56] <Yagisan> lifeless: technically Australia is a continent - so it would be west continent.
[07:59] <Yagisan> although it seems the kiwis have established a beachhead at bondi in preparation for an invasion
[08:01] <daniels> (a continent and an island, plus all the terroritories.  and bondi is far more english than kiwi; all the kiwis are infiltrating the melbourne dnb/breaks scene.  but this is getting horrendously off-topic.)
[08:03] <Yagisan> it is off-topic - but a bit of good natured humor - no offense meant to ajmitch and any other kiwis
[08:06] <pitti> Good morning
[08:07] <daniels> morning pitti
[08:07] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:07] <fabbione> yo daniels 
[08:07] <daniels> sup fabio
[08:08] <pitti> Hi daniels
[08:08] <fabbione> daniels: X has been a success on a Creator 3Dsomething..
[08:08] <pitti> daniels: yesterday's hoary->breezy upgrade produced a nice xorg.conf and my keyboard worked, thanks :-)
[08:08] <fabbione> daniels: no autodetection tho.. but we will fix that for dapper
[08:09] <pitti> daniels: however, I still got this dumb X/Gnome keyboard question
[08:09] <pitti> daniels: do you have any idea what Gnome could still complain about?
[08:09] <daniels> fabbione: creator is sunffb, isn't it?
[08:09] <fabbione> daniels: i think so yes
[08:09] <daniels> pitti: could you please /msg me the Xkb bits of xorg.conf and the output of xprop -root | grep RULES?
[08:09] <daniels> pitti: (also, no worries)
[08:10] <fabbione> daniels: generally the autodetecion on sparc sucks.. there are also warnings at keyboard layout code..
[08:10] <fabbione> daniels: nothing we are going to touch for breezy
[08:10] <daniels> cool
[08:11] <fabbione> at least we know the code works
[08:11] <fabbione> and that's good
[08:11] <tepsipakki> jbailey: around?
[08:15] <fabbione> are we still free to upload to universe?
[08:16] <fabbione> hmm i guess so from -changes
[08:16] <pitti> fabbione: yes, until the MOTUs say stop
[08:16] <fabbione> ok
[08:23] <daniels> gar
[08:23] <daniels> sebariiiiiiiiiiiino
[08:23] <pitti> daniels: found a GTK bug?
[08:24] <daniels> pitti: i blame the gnome kb applet at this point :)
[08:24] <Lathiat> i thought all bugs were gtk bugs :)
[08:32] <fabbione> daniels: i think 8468 is an easy fix...
[08:35] <fabbione> 4 hours of sleep at night aren't enough
[08:35] <daniels> +// This RO_US/Programmers layout, although the secondary layout in the 
[08:35] <daniels> +// Romanian standard, has always been the "de facto" standard in the 
[08:35] <daniels> +// Linux/Unix world. It is implemented here as the default layout and it's
[08:36] <daniels> +// fully compatible with an US keyboard (Euro on AltGr+5 doesn't count).
[08:36] <daniels> i can't quite express how much I don't want to apply that patch
[08:36] <fabbione> wasn't that applied to CVS upstream?
[08:36] <daniels> yes
[08:36] <fabbione> ok
[08:37] <daniels> +    // Primary layout in the new Romanian standard.
[08:37] <daniels> +    // Implemented here as a variant because of the lack of hardware 
[08:37] <daniels> +    // Romanian keyboards and because of the predilection of Romanian
[08:37] <daniels> +    // X users towards the secondary layout from the new standard.
[08:40] <fabbione> *ugly*
[08:40] <fabbione> ok
[08:40] <fabbione> i see your point :)
[08:40] <fabbione> when do you plan to upload X?
[08:40] <daniels> as soon as I establish that my current fixes aren't FTBFS
[08:40] <fabbione> (i am getting kind of worried to get too many big pkgs in the last minute to make it with sparc)
[08:40] <fabbione> ok
[08:41] <infinity> fabbione : Dude, what's with that "special case sparc" xubuntu-meta upload?.... Do they not use proper seeds like everyone else?
[08:41] <fabbione> infinity: nope
[08:41] <fabbione> infinity: they use a static file
[08:41] <infinity> Ew.
[08:42] <fabbione> transex3 <- only OO2 could have a dir called that way :P
[08:42] <fabbione> infinity: they planned to bind to seeds, but it looks like they can't?
[08:42] <fabbione> i really have no idea

[08:51] <maswan> "it would be neat if we could saturate our uplink, hope you manage to fill your 2xGigE" -- our netmasters, when asked about bandwidth usage for breezy release. :)
[08:53] <Lathiat> heh
[08:55] <infinity> Not many people think saturating their uplink is "neat".
[08:55] <daniels> only when it's virtually impossible to do so
[08:55] <daniels> e.g. pdx
[08:55] <Lathiat> well we hit what, 1.4gbit last release?
[08:59] <maswan> 1.2-1.4 or so at peak, yeah. sarge peaked at about 2 here, and that's still 500Mbit short of saturation
[09:00] <maswan> this network has been aronud like this for 2-3 years now, without ever having been saturated.
[09:01] <Lathiat> heh
[09:04] <fabbione> hey maswan 
[09:06] <fabbione> maswan: give me access to a box with a lot of disk space and i will saturate that bw easily
[09:06] <maswan> fabbione: hi there
[09:06] <fabbione> lot of space + enough GigaEthernets 
[09:07] <maswan> I can do that with iperf too, that's not the issue. the thing is doing it with something useful.
[09:07] <fabbione> maswan: yeah.. i can do it with something useful
[09:07] <maswan> fabbione: like what?
[09:07] <fabbione> ;)
[09:07] <fabbione> just kidding
[09:23] <pitti> Kamion, elmo: please sync mod-auth-shadow (universe, security update)
[09:28] <robitaille> does anyone know if hoary was using the country codes by default for the urls to the archive servers  in /etc/apt/sources.list? Or that's a new thing for breezy?
[09:38] <sabdfl> Kamion: ping
[09:40] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[09:41] <sivang> GOod morning all
[09:48] <hunger> good morning!
[09:49] <sivang> hey hunger 
[09:59] <pitti> Kamion, elmo: bugzilla sync, please (universe, security)
[10:02] <pitti> ogra: please check http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN-2005-3166
[10:02] <pitti> ogra: ah, forget it, we have 1.4.10
[10:04] <pitti> daniels: ?
[10:04] <daniels> n/m
[10:08] <pitti> OMG - fabbione, joy! 5 new kernel CANs
[10:08] <fabbione> pitti: you kidding right?
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: no, I'm not, but I didn't review them closely yet
[10:09] <fabbione> ok
[10:09] <fabbione> send me the crack :(
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: I evaluate them, collect patches, and mail you
[10:09] <fabbione> sure that's perfect
[10:10] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[10:11] <seb128> hey pitti 
[10:13] <fabbione> pitti: did you get any answer from Herbert?
[10:13] <fabbione> pitti: i would like to have his debdiff before applying the new crack
[10:14] <Lathiat> Kamion: you still cant change the mount point of ntfs partitions
[10:14] <Lathiat> Kamion: is that goign to be fixed?
[10:14] <pitti> fabbione: oh, no, I didn't ask him - it wasn't clear to me that I should be the relay, sorry
[10:14] <pitti> fabbione: I'll ask him immediately
[10:14] <fabbione> pitti: oh sorry.. we misunderstood..
[10:14] <fabbione> no problem dude
[10:15] <daniels> seb128: good morning sunshine
[10:16] <pitti> fabbione: sent
[10:16] <seb128> hey daniels 
[10:16] <Lathiat> Kamion: (#14236)
[10:16] <fabbione> pitti: thanks
[10:16] <daniels> seb128: pitti has an xkb problem that I think is a gnome problem :)
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: on hoary->breezy upgrade I still get the keyboard question, but xorg.conf loks fine
[10:18] <daniels> seb128: basically, we've got rules xorg, model pc105, layout de, variant nodeadkeys, options lv3:lwin_switch
[10:18] <daniels> seb128: and _XKB_RULES_NAMES has exactly that, and _XKB_RULES_NAMES_BACKUP is identical too
[10:18] <daniels> seb128: but we still get the question
[10:18] <seb128> weird
[10:19] <daniels> that's what I said
[10:20] <carlos> seb128, just in case someone else asks, update-manager is already imported into Rosetta (I don't see mvo around...)
[10:20] <seb128> carlos: k, cool
[10:20] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/update-manager/+translations
[10:21] <daniels> seb128: my understanding was that _X_R_N_B was the original settings, and _X_R_N what the kb applet said, so yeah
[10:21] <daniels> seb128: i dunno what's going on
[10:22] <sivang> Bon Jouj seb128 
[10:22] <seb128> hi
[10:22] <sivang> err, Jour even
[10:23] <seb128> daniels, pitti: gnome-control-center/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-keyboard-xkb.c gnome_settings_keyboard_xkb_analyze_sysconfig() is the code for that warning
[10:24] <seb128> 	GSwitchItKbdConfigLoadFromGConfBackup (&backupGConfKbdConfig);
[10:24] <seb128> 	GSwitchItKbdConfigLoadFromXInitial (&initialSysKbdConfig);
[10:24] <seb128> 	isConfigChanged = g_slist_length (backupGConfKbdConfig.layouts) &&
[10:24] <seb128> 	    !GSwitchItKbdConfigEquals (&initialSysKbdConfig, &backupGConfKbdConfig);
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: run gnome-settings-daemon with XKL_DEBUG=200 maybe
[10:34] <Yagisan> G'day all - IA64 (Itanium) - Can run i386 binaries right ?
[10:34] <daniels> no
[10:34] <Lathiat> Yagisan: hah, i was right ;p
[10:34] <daniels> you're thinking of amd64
[10:34] <Yagisan> no - I know amd64 can run i386 - I have one
[10:35] <Yagisan> I thought ia64 could too
[10:35] <fabbione> Yagisan: you want to ask that to lamont when he is around
[10:35] <Yagisan> no worries
[10:35] <bob2> if it had, maybe people would have bought them
[10:36] <Yagisan> I was just making a patch - and wanted to know if I should add ia64 to it
[10:36] <Yagisan> bob2: it still cost too much
[10:36] <daniels> yes, it does cost a hundred times more than competing space heaters
[10:37] <pitti> fabbione: sent
[10:37] <bob2> haha
[10:37] <fabbione> pitti: thanks
[10:40] <fabbione> pitti: got all of it :/
[10:40] <fabbione> pitti: i assume everything is public by now
[10:53] <infinity> ogra : Too late for breezy, but shouldn't the Escape key be bound to "cancel" in the xscreensaver dialog?
[10:53] <infinity> ogra : s/dialog/unlock dialog/
[10:58] <Kamion> tritium: pong
[10:58] <Kamion> sabdfl: pong
[10:59] <sabdfl> hey Kamion. did mdz discuss a new iso with you?
[10:59] <Kamion> pitti: please ask just elmo - I was only doing syncs while he was on holiday
[10:59] <Kamion> sabdfl: not that I've seen so far, although I haven't started on mail yet. Any particular new ISO?
[10:59] <pitti> fabbione: yes, all public
[10:59] <pitti> Kamion: alright
[11:00] <Kamion> Lathiat: /var/log/partman would probably help
[11:00] <fabbione> pitti: ok thanks
[11:00] <pitti> carlos: http://mawson.ubuntu.com/%7Ecarlos/rosetta-breezy.tar.gz
[11:00] <pitti>  is still 403
[11:00] <Kamion> sabdfl: oh, I've got mail about it. give me a bit to digest
[11:01] <carlos> pitti, because as I told you, stub had to kill the script and it's still running since I wake up this morning
[11:01] <pitti> carlos: ah, ok
[11:02] <pitti> carlos: odd, a dangling symlink should be a 404, but anyway
[11:02] <carlos> pitti, removed so you will get a 404 :-)
[11:02] <daniels> pitti: you got a link to these bugs?
[11:02] <pitti> I don't particularly mind :-)
[11:03] <stub> carlos: I'll disable the staging updates if you think it will be running for another 12 hours or more.
[11:03] <pitti> daniels: "these"?
[11:03] <carlos> stub, no, it will take only 3-4 hours and it's already running since 1 hour and a half ago
[11:05] <daniels> pitti: the kernel security ones
[11:09] <jc-denton> hi all
[11:10] <jc-denton> i run breezy and in openoffice i still cannot start the help system
[11:10] <jc-denton> i think i did everything right, i just cannot belive that this is still unfixed
[11:11] <jc-denton> afaik breezy will be shipped with ooffice2
[11:11] <Treenaks> or at least a beta of it
[11:11] <jc-denton> yes
[11:11] <Treenaks> jc-denton: is there a bug in bugzilla for this
[11:11] <Treenaks> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14700
[11:12] <jc-denton> yes
[11:12] <jc-denton> i just saw it
[11:12] <jc-denton> "confirmed. currently the help cannot be built using java-gcj-compat, and fails
[11:12] <jc-denton> to build using the blackdown jdk as well."
[11:12] <jc-denton> wtf
[11:12] <jc-denton> i mean i cannot be shipped w/o help
[11:12] <Treenaks> jc-denton: fix it then
[11:13] <jc-denton> Treenaks: i'm not into openoffice
[11:14] <jc-denton> hrmm
[11:14] <jc-denton> cannot u just use the sun jdk
[11:14] <jc-denton> i mean it's non-free
[11:14] <jc-denton> but at least it works well
[11:15] <daniels> 'i mean it's non-free'
[11:15] <jc-denton> yes
[11:15] <jc-denton> it also ships restricted kernel modules
[11:16] <jc-denton> like the fw for my wlan chipset
[11:16] <jc-denton> so why not java
[11:16] <jc-denton> i'll probably ask on the mailing list
[11:16] <crimsun> non-free does not imply that the license restricts its redistribution
[11:17] <jc-denton> sun java does this?
[11:17] <daniels> sigh, please take this to #ubuntu, but as crimsun implies, we can't redistribute it anyway.
[11:20] <jc-denton> humm
[11:20] <jc-denton> just
[11:21] <jc-denton> to ship ubuntu as a newbie friendly distro w/o help seems to be a pretty stupid idea
[11:21] <bob2> #ubuntu
[11:22] <jc-denton> k i'll shut up
[11:23] <rob^> like bitching in here will help..
[11:23] <jc-denton> humm
[11:23] <jc-denton> of course it does not
[11:24] <jc-denton> but i think redhat also ships ooffice2 in fedora
[11:24] <jc-denton> i wonder how they handle this
[11:24] <rob^> jc-denton, file a bug
[11:25] <jc-denton> there is already one
[11:25] <jc-denton> 11:09 < Treenaks> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14700
[11:25] <rob^> well just sit tight and the dev will get to it
[11:26] <jc-denton> lol
[11:26] <jc-denton> i hope so
[11:26] <Kamion> we also don't really have CD space left for it
[11:26] <jc-denton> but isn't it already frozen ( breezy)
[11:26] <Kamion> yes
[11:27] <jc-denton> humm
[11:27] <jc-denton> ok
[11:27] <rob^> I wonder if its worth changing to dvd, they are pretty cheap now days
[11:27] <Kamion> sigh
[11:27] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/
[11:27] <jc-denton> lol
[11:27] <jsgotangco> yeah right try downloading a dvd
[11:27] <jc-denton> install media fl4am3
[11:28] <rob^> you don't have to fill the whole thing :)
[11:28] <jc-denton> i prefer a small cd
[11:28] <jc-denton> then i can install the rest from the net
[11:28] <rob^> and have a net install iso for download too
[11:28] <bob2> #ubuntu, kthxbye
[11:29] <jc-denton> heh
[11:29] <Lathiat> bob2: 'bai'
[11:29] <jsgotangco> Kamion, do you just change strings in the installer doc in the cd?
[11:29] <bob2> Lathiat: I dunno how you spell in WA, but here it's "bye"!
[11:29] <rob^> heh
[11:30] <Kamion> jsgotangco: ?
[11:30] <jsgotangco> Kamion, it says we support 11 archietectures
[11:30] <Kamion> which installer doc?
[11:30] <Kamion> url?
[11:30] <rob^> jsgotangco, is that one of ours?
[11:31] <jsgotangco> file:///media/cdrom0/doc/install/manual/en/ch02s01.html#id2513920
[11:31] <jsgotangco> rob^, no this is the debain installer doc
[11:31] <rob^> yeah just thought that
[11:31] <jsgotangco> i'm looking for parts of it usable for the release notes
[11:32] <daniels> cool.  7 ubuntu-specific patches, 4 patches to be applied upstream.  the rest are modularisation, already applied upstream, or imake patches.
[11:32] <rob^> are they almost done?
[11:32] <Kamion> jsgotangco: I fixed that in debian-installer 20050317ubuntu16. See http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/ch02s01.html#id2513920 for an updated version.
[11:33] <jsgotangco> Kamion, ahhh i haven't checked the rc doc actually sorry..(i pulled in an old colony cd)
[11:33] <rob^> ah nice
[11:33] <Kamion> jsgotangco: ok, use the net version
[11:38] <ogra> infinity, yes, i'd have preferred that too, but i lost to much time for screensaver stuff already, so i concentrated on the essential bits sabdfl wanted me to do... we'll drop xscreensaver the day after breezy anyway ;)
[11:39] <infinity> Are we planning on dedicating any real development effort to gnome-screensaver, or just praying that it improves upstream?
[11:40] <ogra> infinity, upstream is very responsive to all our requests...
[11:40] <ogra> i wont have much work with it... only the bits we might disagree about
[11:40] <daniels> 'please make it actually function'
[11:40] <azeem> it worked out-of-the-box for me so far, haven't noticed any problems
[11:40] <azeem> didn't touched the dials, of course
[11:41] <azeem> s/touched/touch/
[11:41] <ogra> and note that its the only way to integrate right with gnome-power-manager
[11:42] <ogra> azeem, it had a default dpms value of 2 mintes or so in the first package i got from upstream... it hardlocked many machines in GL mode, it has no option to setany powe management settings for your display and has no options to adjust and settings for any screensaver
[11:42] <infinity> It had many (many) issues for me, so here's hoping we clear them all up very early.
[11:42] <zyga> hello miracle workers
[11:42] <ogra> ... just to mention some drawbacks
[11:42] <fabbione> pitti: you got mail
[11:42] <seb128> infinity: they changed almost everything that has been listed on the ubuntu wiki page already
[11:43] <azeem> heh, cool
[11:43] <ogra> infinity, we'll adopt it right away and due to the swich i already know the weirdest bugs ;)
[11:43] <ogra> so it should become a rocking thing in dapper :)
[11:48] <pitti> Hi carstenh, how are you?
[11:49] <carstenh> hi pitti, fine :)
[11:50] <XtaZ> hi friends
[11:53] <sabdfl> Kamion: server-oriented. default (enter) just does ubuntu-minimal. ship-seed for that cd would include a bunch of server stuff (apache, zope, php, mysql, postgres, ldap, cluster stuff)
[11:53] <sabdfl> no new supported software
[11:53] <sabdfl> keybuk suggested name of 1ubuntu. or one-u-buntu
[11:54] <infinity> I don't know how many poeple would get the pun without it being spelled out for them.
[11:54] <daniels> so you can't install it on dl385s?
[11:54] <sabdfl> daniels: agreed. two-u-buntu seems more industrial strength
[11:55] <Kamion> sabdfl: mdz said ubuntu-minimal + ubuntu-standard by default (which seems more what I'd expect)
[11:55] <fabbione> sabdfl: please skip cluster from default install. it can be dangerous if the user doesn't know about it
[11:55] <fabbione> or it is installing another cluster node
[11:55] <Kamion> sabdfl: should be doable - I'll just have to do some scary juggling :-)
[11:55] <Kamion> I can't decide whether to create a new seed branch or to add a new file to the Ubuntu seeds
[11:55] <sabdfl> Kamion: +1 ubuntu-standard
[11:56] <dholbach> hellas
[11:56] <sabdfl> sivang: yup
[11:56] <Kamion> seed handling will depend on how it's most smoothly implementable in cdimage
[11:56] <sabdfl> Kamion: whatever's lowest risk and easiest to implement
[11:57] <sivang> sabdfl: I was just sure this sort of things would be sorted out for dapper rather then breezy. Well, sooner the better probably.
[11:57] <sabdfl> sivang: if it were more than a few hours, or involved new packages, i would defer
[11:57] <sabdfl> but i keep getting asked for a "server version", and those people are happy with a separate cd, so we should just DOIT
[11:57] <Mithrandir> sivang: did you get around to testing the kernel images yesterday?
[11:58] <Kamion> my inclination is to make it be http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/ (or whatever project name we choose), i.e. a different project on cdimage like kubuntu or edubuntu
[11:58] <infinity> That makes most sense to me.
[11:58] <Kamion> but possibly to use Ubuntu seeds for it rather than branching
[11:59] <infinity> We could have ship-desktop and ship-server...
[11:59] <sivang> sabdfl: ok, but we would have more room to discussing the standard/server-base for dapper over UBZ , right?
[11:59] <Kamion> ship-desktop makes no sense :-)
[11:59] <daniels> whatever happened to buntu?
[12:00] <infinity> Kamion : Well, ship and ship-server, then, whatever.  The point being that the "ship" seed should be the only one that differs.
[12:00] <sivang> Mithrandir: I will have results for you today.
[12:00] <infinity> daniels : I can't type that character on my keymap, so I gave up on the project.
[12:00] <Kamion> infinity: I was thinking of just calling it 'server' and treating it like ship. There's nothing magic about the name 'ship' really
[12:00] <daniels> infinity: rctrl+u
[12:01] <Mithrandir> daniels: deferred.
[12:01] <Kamion> cdimage can select the seeds it wants to use for any given project ...
[12:01] <daniels> infinity: or AD07 L3, whichever you prefer
[12:01] <sabdfl> Kamion: except it would not be installed by default
[12:01] <sivang> Mithrandir: err, rather, this evening.
[12:01] <Mithrandir> sivang: ok
[12:01] <Kamion> sabdfl: ship isn't installed by default either
[12:01] <infinity> Kamion : Nothing magic about it, except that we all know what it means.  But call it whatever you like. :)
[12:01] <Kamion> although it is copied to the hard disk
[12:01] <sabdfl> ok, so cdimage knows which seeds, and which to install?
[12:02] <Kamion> yes
[12:02] <Kamion> lots of strange requests for things over time have made it quite generic ;-)
[12:03] <infinity> sabdfl : Do you have a reasonably concrete package selectoin already, or will you need some help defining this seed over the weekend?
[12:03] <daniels> Kamion: i strongly suggest that nvidia-glx be demoted from ship, and multiseat-udeb be removed from standard, after breezy; any objections?
[12:04] <Kamion> daniels: none to multiseat-udeb (although udebs don't go in standard, but I know what you mean)
[12:04] <daniels> s/standard/thingy/, then
[12:04] <Kamion> daniels: not sure about nvidia-glx; depends on the outcry involved
[12:04] <infinity> Kamion : We don't ship fglrx.  We only ship nvidia-glx, specifically because of multiseat, if the comment in the seeds is to be believed.
[12:04] <daniels> well, nvidia-glx was only seeded for a very specific reason which no longer applies at all; if we're keeping it for more generic reasons (i.e., people find it useful), then we should really be seeding fglrx too
[12:05] <Kamion> infinity: mdz sent me a mail with a draft seed; I can bounce it to you
[12:05] <mjg59> daniels: Weirdly, the daily amd64 build from Tuesday worked fine on the HP amd64
[12:05] <Kamion> infinity: ah, in that case fine by me
[12:05] <daniels> mjg59: the ... fuck?
[12:05] <mjg59> Quite
[12:05] <daniels> mjg59: i blame the kernel.  but I just uploaded something which disables accel on hp rv370s, and r[cs] 4xxs
[12:06] <mjg59> (Sorry, I've been in London without net access since then)
[12:06] <janimo> daniels, if you need more data or live testing on the wavy X600 issue I am here
[12:06] <fabbione> ah janimo 
[12:06] <mjg59> daniels: Had it running all day for two days without any trouble, so...
[12:06] <daniels> janimo: i can't think of anything useful at the moment, sorry, bar 'try without the framebuffer'
[12:06] <fabbione> here you are
[12:06] <janimo> fabbione,, yup :)
[12:06] <daniels> mjg59: bongtasmic.  so, 14446.
[12:06] <daniels> mjg59: what's the maximum keycode of these suckers/
[12:06] <mjg59> Christ knows
[12:07] <fabbione> Janimo: i had to do an xubuntu-meta upload this morning..
[12:07] <mjg59> Why would anyone want autorepeat on any of those keys?
[12:07] <janimo> I put in powermgm
[12:07] <fabbione> hope you don't mind too much
[12:07] <janimo> because I thought it was cross platform
[12:07] <fabbione> but it makes it working on sparc..
[12:07] <janimo> fabbione, not at all :)
[12:07] <daniels> mjg59: just trying to dampen the impact as much as possible
[12:07] <mjg59> daniels: If I confirm this, can you revert the "fuck my acceleration" thing?
[12:07] <mjg59> daniels: They're scattered all over the range
[12:07] <janimo> mjg said pmi should be cross plat so I included it
[12:07] <fabbione> powermgm is cross platform.. but acpi-support no
[12:07] <daniels> mjg59: and I assume that 146 is the minimum keycode rather than 141, since that's what they thing does
[12:07] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:07] <daniels> mjg59: sure thing, I'll just revert it to 'disable on r[cs] 4xx only'
[12:07] <janimo> I thought it cleverly depends on acpi only on selected archs
[12:07] <fabbione> janimo: not your fault.. so don't worry
[12:08] <daniels> mjg59: my current line of thinking is that it's a BIOS thing, given that it varies per-vendor
[12:08] <mjg59> daniels: Well, the HP machine seems unaffected now
[12:08] <mjg59> I'll test again later on
[12:08] <daniels> mjg59: if you're really bored, you could use the table parsing code in radeon_bios.c to modify an IBM BIOS to do your bidding
[12:08] <daniels> or just take it from an equivalent laptop (LVDS on the primary connector, same resolution)
[12:08] <janimo> fabbione so you actually use xubu on sparc?
[12:08] <daniels> then see if it will do your bidding
[12:08] <fabbione> janimo: no i don't.. other people do
[12:09] <janimo> ah ok
[12:09] <daniels> mjg59: so yeah, if it occurs again, I wonder if re-POSTing won't fix
[12:09] <fabbione> janimo: my sparc is headless :)
[12:09] <daniels> mjg59: (or just running an IBM BIOS, then running an HP BIOS immediately after, and hope you don't destroy your display ITMT)
[12:10] <mjg59> daniels: A-ha ha ha.
[12:10] <daniels> mjg59: (seriously)
[12:10] <daniels> i mean, if you want to get funky, you could also disconnect the LCD while you do this
[12:10] <mjg59> I'm not stripping the machine, I'm afraid
[12:10] <daniels> or just modify the BIOS so it doesn't touch FP_GEN_CNTL at all, ever
[12:10] <daniels> and set DISABLE=1
[12:12] <mvo> Kamion: is #16149 ok for -final?
[12:14] <Kamion> mvo: does the API change matter?
[12:14] <Kamion> -void launchpad_integration_add_icon_factory ();
[12:14] <Kamion> +void launchpad_integration_add_item_factory ();
[12:15] <Lathiat> i had to reread that 4 times to see the differene
[12:15] <sivang> why icon was replaced with item?
[12:15] <sivang> (afaik there were two funcs like this)
[12:16] <mvo> Kamion: not really, it just fixes some warnings (because the prototype was mixed up)
[12:18] <mvo> sivang: it wasn't replaced, it was just a wrong prototype
[12:18] <sivang> mvo: ah, k
[12:21] <Riddell> elmo: do you know why Kubuntu RC isn't mirroring?
[12:22] <ogra> Riddell, thats rather a question for the mirror masters ;) poke magnon for example 
[12:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 17183; fix looks ok to you?
[12:23] <sivang> Mithrandir: is it a good idea to run bonnie as well for referehce?
[12:24] <Mithrandir> sivang: I was just using it since it does disk benchmarking.  Any method works for me.
[12:24] <Riddell> ogra: there was a syncing issue on the ubuntu side last night
[12:24] <sivang> Mithrandir: k
[12:24] <ogra> Riddell, ah, ok
[12:25] <Mithrandir> sivang: if you're actually able to track down _what_ is causing the slowdown, I'd be very, very grateful as well. :-)
[12:25] <Riddell> Kamion: do you know why there's no torrents for the Kubuntu RC install CDs?
[12:25] <Kamion> Riddell: I'm fixing
[12:25] <pitti> Riddell: you are reasonably sure that you want kde-guidance in main?
[12:26] <Kamion> I was going to send you mail when done
[12:26] <Riddell> pitti: yep
[12:26] <pitti> Riddell: is it tested enough to be known not to trash your config files?
[12:26] <Riddell> Kamion: cool
[12:26] <Riddell> pitti: not killed mine yet
[12:26] <sivang> Mithrandir: well, if your kenrel solve it, that it's definitely inotify , or are there there any others factors to check?
[12:26] <sabdfl> Riddell: how's progress on 3.4.3?
[12:26] <pef> hello
[12:26] <Mithrandir> sivang: the only difference in those kernel images is the disabling of inotify, yes.
[12:27] <Riddell> sabdfl: mdz said it's mine and (your funeral) so I'm packaging it now and I'll get some people to test it and upload if there's no problems
[12:28] <sabdfl> cool. thanks. kde: the new black
[12:28] <Lathiat> Riddell: whats this, new kde?
[12:28] <Riddell> Lathiat: a badly times bugfix release of KDE, yes
[12:28] <Kamion> Riddell: in any case, though, once I've fixed the torrent generation, it still requires admin action to restart the tracker
[12:28] <Lathiat> Riddell: ah
[12:29] <Lathiat> Riddell: well im not much of a kde user but i'm up for some testing
[12:29] <janimo> jdub, ping
[12:31] <Kamion> Riddell: it probably broke because my connection died in the middle of publishing
[12:32] <sivang> Mithrandir: do you run bonnie default, or use some cmd line args?
[12:35] <Mithrandir> sivang: just bonnnie++.
[12:36] <sivang> Mithrandir: k, on my way now.
[12:36] <Mithrandir> sivang: you need free space equivalent to double the size of your RAM.
[12:37] <sivang> Mithrandir: I have, I didn't specify a subfolder for it to work in, will it clutter all my / ?
[12:37] <Mithrandir> sivang: no, it'll clutter the directory you're running it from, then clean up afterwards
[12:37] <the--dud> wow, installing suse 10.0 OSS now... breezy should have even 40% of the GUI installer that suse has cooked up
[12:38] <the--dud> fucking amazing stuff ;/
[12:38] <Treenaks> the--dud: Suse is hell once you've installed it..yast is SLOW
[12:38] <Treenaks> the--dud: and upgrading to a new version? don't even try if you have custom packages installed
[12:38] <the--dud> Treenaks, I wont dispute that. but the installer
[12:39] <sivang> Treenaks: and what about compat-db ? where has it gone for SUSE ? :)
[12:39] <the--dud> not only is it even more userfriendly than the XP installer for windows... but it's incredibly powerful for expert users
[12:40] <the--dud> the only drawback for this 10.0 installer is that you need all 5 cds it seems
[12:40] <the--dud> but my point is, why can't ubuntu have something like this? :D
[12:40] <Treenaks> sivang: I have no idea
[12:41] <Treenaks> the--dud: because ubuntu wants to be once CD
[12:41] <mvo> the--dud: please move this to some other channel, this is the ubuntu development channel. see the wiki for information about a graphical installer for ubuntu
[12:41] <the--dud> well sorry then, was just wenting an idea... I'll refrain myself from such actions in the future
[12:42] <Treenaks> the--dud: just have a look at the wiki first ;) webwereld.nl/
[12:42] <Treenaks> uh
[12:42] <Treenaks> the--dud: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalInstaller
[12:42] <Treenaks> (doh @ pastebuffer)
[12:43] <mvo> the--dud: I didn't wanted to sound unfriendly/harsh, but there is some information on the wiki already :)
[12:43] <the--dud> yeah, thanks... I'm following it closly
[12:43] <Kamion> the XP installer is anything but user-friendly
[12:43] <Kamion> it's absolutely dreadful
[12:43] <the--dud> Kamion, I meant like... all buttons and lots of colours and shapes
[12:43] <Kamion> that's not user-friendly, that's just shiny. there's a difference.
[12:44] <the--dud> good point
[12:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's not even shiny.  It's plasticy and icky.
[12:49] <sivang> Mithrandir++
[12:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: well, I happen to agree - but even taking the--dud's comments at face value ...
[12:52] <mjg59> Kamion: Tuesday's daily still automounted FAT partitions but not NTFS ones
[12:53] <Kamion> ok, I'll investigate
[12:53] <janimo> Kamion, will you have some time this coming week for seeding/buildd 101 so I can take care of that for xubuntu?thanks
[12:53] <janimo> I ahve read the wiki pages
[12:54] <Kamion> janimo: sure, try me early next week
[12:54] <janimo> ok
[01:02] <Lathiat> mjg59: nice ot see suspend is enable dou tof the box on my m20 now
[01:02] <Lathiat> *nice to see suspend is enabled out of the box
[01:03] <Lathiat> (to ram)
[01:05] <Lathiat> hrm, hibernate didnt work tho, it just booted back up and didnt resume
[01:05] <mjg59> Are you using LVM?
[01:05] <maswan> mvo: excuse me for asking a probably trivial question, but how does the keyring package work wrt getting trusted by apt-key? I can't seem to find anything in it that adds stuff anyway.
[01:07] <Lathiat> mjg59: no
[01:07] <Lathiat> i'll try again and see if i can see an error
[01:09] <mvo> maswan: it calls apt-key update in it's postinst
[01:09] <Riddell> elmo: can you restart the tracker on the kubuntu torrents, kamion added the missing ones
[01:09] <doko> fabbione: is the sparc build still bleeding?
[01:09] <maswan> mvo: yes, but that seems not to include my newly added keyring.
[01:10] <maswan> mvo: does it assume that the ubuntu-archive keyring is already trusted by some other means?
[01:10] <Kamion> maswan: apt.postinst in Ubuntu does it
[01:10] <maswan> Kamion: Ah, thanks. That's what I needed to know.
[01:12] <Lathiat> mjg59: gah, it worked that time
[01:12] <Lathiat> but i did drop out of usplash
[01:13] <pitti> mjg59: do you want radeontool in main for breezy? it does not work at all for me (Radeon 9200) and the description scares me off...
[01:13] <Yagisan> Lathiat: I searched the debian mailing lists - ia64 can run i386 :)
[01:14] <mjg59> pitti: Yes, I do
[01:15] <mjg59> Otherwise I wouldn't have proposed it for main
[01:15] <mjg59> It's only run under tightly controlled circumstances
[01:15] <pitti> mjg59: so it's not supposed to be run by users directly?
[01:16] <mjg59> It has functionality that may be useful to some users, but the reason it's there is so that acpi-support can use it
[01:16] <Lathiat> Yagisan: really?
[01:16] <Lathiat> Yagisan: interesting
[01:16] <Lathiat> mjg59: i thought mdz backed that out
[01:16] <mjg59> He did
[01:16] <pitti> mjg59: hmm, ok. So if some user breaks his hardware with that, I know who to blame :-)
[01:17] <mjg59> The same user can quite happily break his hardware in other ways as root
[01:17] <Lathiat> mjg59: ok i i just hibernated twice
[01:17] <Lathiat> fine
[01:17] <Lathiat> so i dont know what happened the first time :\
[01:18] <Lathiat> i know, i'll try sleep, come out, and then hibernate
[01:18] <Lathiat> mjg59: did the extra dell keycodes go in?
[01:18] <mjg59> Which extra Dell keycodes?
[01:19] <Lathiat> hibernate, eject
[01:19] <mjg59> Yes
[01:19] <mjg59> Some time ago
[01:19] <Lathiat> theres a battery and crt button too
[01:19] <Lathiat> but they dont really ahve any associated action
[01:19] <mjg59> What the CRT button does is up to the BIOS
[01:19] <Lathiat> well in both my dells, the CRT button is software
[01:19] <Lathiat> does nothign in hardware
[01:20] <mjg59> It signals the BIOS
[01:20] <Lathiat> well, my bios does nothing
[01:20] <mjg59> Right
[01:20] <Lathiat> and it gives me an acpi event
[01:20] <Lathiat> or is it a keycode
[01:20] <Lathiat> i forget
[01:20] <mjg59> It's a keycode
[01:20] <Yagisan> Lathiat: it is interesting - it seems to be SLOW - but it's there just like amd64 (well not quite - I think it's done by firmware)
[01:20] <Lathiat> Yagisan: ok
[01:20] <Lathiat> Yagisan: where as amd64 is very much like x86
[01:21] <Lathiat> so its not much of an issue
[01:21] <Yagisan> Lathiat: yes. It reminds me of how apple did m68k on ppc
[01:21] <Lathiat> mjg59: ok i lied, it works on my 8600
[01:21] <Lathiat> mjg59: it doesnt work on the m20
[01:21] <Lathiat> doesnt give a keycode on my 8600 either
[01:21] <mjg59> What chipset is in the m20?
[01:21] <Lathiat> ati firegl v3100
[01:22] <Lathiat> nvidia go 5200 in the 8600
[01:22] <mjg59> Bleah
[01:22] <mjg59> No, I don't think we have any nice easy way of toggling the head from userland
[01:22] <Lathiat> mjg59: ok
[01:22] <Lathiat> do we have support for it at all?
[01:22] <mjg59> You can configure X so it always outputs on the CRT head
[01:23] <Lathiat> hm ok
[01:23] <Lathiat> does xorg 7 have any plans for a dynamic configuration system? :)
[01:23] <Treenaks> Lathiat: plans? always ;)
[01:23] <Lathiat> let me rephrase that
[01:23] <Lathiat> does xorg 7 have any actual momentum
[01:23] <Lathiat> for a dynamic configuration system
[01:23] <mjg59> For that? No
[01:23] <Lathiat> like changing driver options on the fly
[01:23] <Lathiat> maybe even video drivers
[01:24] <Treenaks> mjg59: eventually...
[01:24] <Treenaks> Lathiat: http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/ToDo
[01:24] <mjg59> Treenaks: Not for 87.0
[01:24] <mjg59> Uh
[01:24] <mjg59> 7.0
[01:24] <Treenaks> mjg59: maybe fore 87.0 ;)
[01:24] <Lathiat> hah
[01:24] <Mithrandir> *chuckle*
[01:32] <maswan> Kamion: Hm. That copies the keyring to /etc/apt/trusted.gpg, I don't get what good the apt-key update in the keyring postinst is going to do, a new keyring package won't get copied into /etc/apt.
[01:33] <bob2> lkml needs some sort of anti-crackpot SA rule
[01:34] <Kamion> maswan: pass
[01:34] <maswan> mvo: do you care about the above statement/question to Kamion?
[01:34] <maswan> or are you guys busy with actually trying to release something. :)
[01:35] <mvo> maswan: a bit busy :) apt-key update will add any new keys from /usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg to the apt keyring and remove keys from /usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-removed-keys.gpg 
[01:35] <mvo> maswan: does that not work for you? 
[01:36] <maswan> mvo: Oh, ok. Is the /usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg filename hardcoded into apt-key?
[01:36] <mvo> maswan: yes. do you need something more flexible?
[01:36] <maswan> mvo: The background is that I'm doing a keyring package for our local repository.
[01:37] <maswan> mvo: I just hacked in an apt-key add for our local key in the postinst. I just didn't get how it worked in the first place. :)
[01:39] <mvo> maswan: documentation is a bit sparse :/ could you remind me after the release about this issue again? maybe we can have something more flexible for apt-key update then (there is a patch floating around that adds /etc/apt/keys.d or something
[01:39] <maswan> mvo: Yes, I'll try to remember that.
[01:39] <mvo> maswan: thanks :)
[01:41] <jdub> mjg59: pong
[01:41] <jdub> er, ping
[01:52] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[01:53] <jdub> yo mjg59 
[01:53] <mvo> infinity: do you have a opinion on #17116?
[01:53] <jdub> mjg59: so is this formal hall thing sorted?
[01:53] <mjg59> jdub: Not yet. I was planning on sorting it today (I've been in London for the past couple of days)
[01:54] <jdub> mjg59: aha
[01:54] <jdub> mjg59: you've been in touch with dean wilson?
[01:54] <mjg59> No...
[01:54] <jdub> hrm
[01:54] <mjg59> Who's he?
[01:55] <jdub> greater london lug person
[01:55] <jdub> speaking to someone else from there?
[01:55] <mjg59> Oh, yes
[01:55] <mjg59> Him
[01:55] <jdub> so they're trying to get us on the 4th
[01:55] <jdub> haha
[01:55] <jdub> 14th
[01:55] <mjg59> Yeah
[01:55] <mjg59> That doesn't actually sound ideal
[01:56] <jdub> mmm, i thought you were hoping for the 14th in cambridge
[01:56] <mjg59> You said the 12th for that
[01:56] <mjg59> Release is the 13th, so release party in London is likely to be the 14th
[01:56] <Kamion> mvo: it doesn't seem to be about console fonts - it's about what vt you end up on
[01:57] <Kamion> mvo: maybe S98usplash should 'chvt 1' slightly less conditionally
[01:57] <Treenaks> jdub: we'll have a late party in Amsterdam the week after :)
[01:58] <mjg59> jdub: I have to go out now
[01:58] <jdub> ok
[01:59] <mvo> Kamion: yes, I was thinking of something like "if [ "$(fgconsole)" = "8" ] ; then chvt 1; fi
[02:00] <Kamion> that sounds reasonable
[02:00] <sladen> mvo: if $(fgconsole) != "7"   ...
[02:01] <Kamion> or 'if type usplash_write >/dev/null 2>&1 && [ "$(fgconsole)" = 8 ] ; then ...'
[02:01] <Kamion> or 'type usplash', or whatever
[02:01] <Kamion> sladen: personally I'd rather have it very usplash-specific
[02:03] <mvo> IMHO we should add "post-run-scripts" support for usplash for dapper. so that whenever usplash exits a script can be run that sets the console-fonts and switches the terminal 
[02:04] <xTina> Kamion: Quick question: is the daily-installer from Oct. 5 and the RC's installer the same? I tested that daily in our automated lab install, but if the RC were different I'd test again.
[02:05] <mvo> Kamion, sladen: thanks
[02:06] <Kamion> xTina: slightly different; I did a full (non-daily) installer build on the 5th for RC
[02:06] <Kamion> i.e. installer-* rather than daily-installer-*
[02:07] <Kamion> I doubt the differences are significant, though
[02:07] <xTina> Kamion: ok, thanks :)
[02:08] <xTina> Kamion: btw did I show you the pix? http://tuxtina.de/tmp/ubuntu_lab1.jpg & ...2.jpg
[02:09] <Mithrandir> xTina: cute tux in the corner. :-)
[02:09] <Lathiat> xTina: nice
[02:09] <xTina> Mithrandir: yeah, unfortunately it has been loosing air recently. guess I'll have to take it to the swimming pool or the bath tub at some point to figure out where the hole is ;)
[02:10] <Kamion> xTina: no, hadn't seen that before - neat!
[02:11] <Mithrandir> xTina: oh, it's not one of the plush ones?
[02:11] <xTina> Mithrandir: no, a huge inflatable one :)
[02:11] <mvo> xTina: nice
[02:11] <Kamion> xTina: http://www.livejournal.com/users/ewx/316986.html
[02:12] <xTina> Kamion: *lol* good idea :)
[02:13] <xTina> there's another 70 machines currently on Fedora Core 1 that get Ubuntu at the end of next week
[02:13] <Kamion> xTina: do you reinstall them all every day then, or something?
[02:14] <Kamion> wondering what the automated lab install is
[02:14] <kent> xTina, is it a school classroom or what? 
[02:14] <xTina> Kamion: No, it's installed through d-i preseeding and updated/patched through a custom python-based system.
[02:15] <xTina> Kamion: http://tuxtina.de/archives/2005-09-25T11_40_00.html
[02:15] <xTina> kent: no, a university lab
[02:15] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Was asleep, I'm around now.
[02:15] <pschulz01> xTina: That's a fantastic photo!
[02:15] <xTina> kent: 74 machines in this one and another one with 71
[02:16] <pschulz01> xTina: How long does it take?
[02:16] <kent> xTina, it looks very nice :)
[02:16] <xTina> pschulz01: what? installing? or making the move from Fedora-1 to Ubuntu?
[02:18] <pschulz01> xTina: all of the above... 
[02:19] <pschulz01> xTina: How long would it take to setup a room, given that the machines are already there (plugged in etc.)
[02:19] <lamont> Yagisan: (and fabbione) ia64 runs i386 binaries just fine... see openoffice.org on hoary. :0)
[02:20] <pschulz01> xTina: Do you start from a 'blank' system?
[02:20] <xTina> pschulz01: Well, it took me a few weeks (part-time) of course since I had to get debian-installer partitioning to work and figure out a few of its quirks first. And then I ran into every single bug in hoary I guess ;)
[02:21] <xTina> pschulz01: If I did it now it probably wouldn't be much of a problem to do it in less than a day.
[02:21] <Yagisan> lamont: thanks lamont
[02:21] <xTina> pschulz01: depending on the amount of customization needed that is
[02:21] <pschulz01> xTima: Would torrent help the pre-seeding?
[02:22] <xTina> pschulz01: torrent?
[02:22] <Kamion> xTina: oh, I knww you don't reinstall them all *manually* :-)
[02:22] <Kamion> cool
[02:22] <pschulz01> xTina: Using bittorrent to update to d-i cache.
[02:23] <Kamion> the meaning of "preseeding" there has nothing to do with the BitTorrent meaning of seeding ...
[02:24] <xTina> Kamion: We only reinstall when something's badly screwed up.
[02:24] <Kamion> xTina: *nod*
[02:24] <pschulz01> xTina: sorry.. not what I ment.. just using bittorrent to copy files to pre-seed the d-i cache should be faster..
[02:24] <xTina> pschulz01: The speed of the installation isn't a problem at all. We have a local mirror and gigabit ethernet. And with preseeding I meant the settings.
[02:25] <xTina> Installing all 74 machines simultaneously takes < 30 minutes.
[02:25] <pschulz01> xTima: cool...
[02:25] <Mithrandir> xTina: it would be useful if we got a patch for fixing NIS password changes with pam_unix.. :-)
[02:26] <pitti> fabbione: can you give me a hint how to interpret the kernel timestamps? how much time passed between 4294890.576000 and 4294976.648000?
[02:26] <pitti> fabbione: are these seconds?
[02:27] <pschulz01> pitti: yes they are
[02:27] <xTina> Mithrandir: Well, if you're staying at 0.76 that's no problem (it's the stuff from Debian bugzilla plus a little more since this wasn't the only place where it's broken). But the problem is that there are major changes in any version following that and it doesn't seem to work properly in any (and fixing it is different in any of these versions).
[02:27] <pitti> pschulz01: ok, thanks; is that the uptime, btw? 
[02:28] <pschulz01> pitti: it doesn't look big enough to be seconds since 1970 :-)
[02:28] <Mithrandir> pitti: about 49 days, 16 hours and 48 minutes.
[02:29] <pschulz01> Mithrander: beat me to it.
[02:29] <xTina> pschulz01: The other 70 machines is going to be a lot less fun. They only have 100 MBit and are 5 years old. But I have to modify the install only very slightly so it shouldn't require more than one attempt until it's up and running (I've checked it every few days on one machine and it always worked flawlessly).
[02:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: impossible - that was right after a reboot
[02:30] <pitti> anyway, thanks
[02:30] <pschulz01> xTina: good luck :-)
[02:30] <Mithrandir> pitti: hmm, weird.  IIRC, it's time since the machine was powered on.
[02:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: my own dmesg looks sensible in that regard, too
[02:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm just trying to squeeze iformation about a dmesg log from a bug report
[02:32] <pitti> thanks to you guys
[02:32] <Kamion> mjg59: ok, I see why that ntfs thing's happening; should be easy to fix
[02:34] <zyga> who build live cds for ubuntu?
[02:36] <tepsipakki> jbailey: I made comments to the bug #17151
[02:37] <Kamion> zyga: why?
[02:37] <Kamion> (it's more effective to say *what* you want first, rather than trying to find out *who* you want ...)
[02:37] <zyga> Kamion: true :)
[02:37] <Kamion> zyga: I operate cdimage, which builds all of the official Ubuntu CD images; but I'm not sure if that's what you're really looking for
[02:38] <zyga> Kamion: I've been building live cds for the past week and I'm dying to know if there is some faster way than cloop and create_compressed_fs with 
[02:38] <sivang> Mithrandir: I'm trying to redirect the output of bonnie++ , any idea why it ignores my redirection attemps?
[02:38] <Kamion> zyga: that's what we use too, AFAIK
[02:38] <zyga> I've got a bunch of boxes here that could be used to compress my image in parallel but cloop utils seems buggy 
[02:38] <azeem> sivang: maybe it writes to stderr instead of stdout?
[02:38] <zyga> Kamion: do you use distributed compression?
[02:38] <Kamion> zyga: but now I know you mean the live filesystem image, not the CD wrapper itself, and that's done by lamont/infinity
[02:38] <Kamion> zyga: no
[02:39] <zyga> ah okay :)
[02:39] <Kamion> why bother - we only do it once a day or so
[02:39] <Mithrandir> sivang: it writes to stdout, so just bonnie++ | tee logfile should work fine
[02:39] <zyga> true :)
[02:43] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Thanks.  I'm still just getting started for the morning, I'll check it out in a moment.
[02:44] <pitti> Kamion: when do you think is a good time to build the final langpacks for breezy gold? Monday?
[02:45] <pitti> Kamion: that still gives us enough time to do another emergency build, and the Rosetta guys can fix some export bugs
[02:45] <tepsipakki> kamion: how do I preseed static network configs? I've done a fresh install by hand but don't see any difference comparing to preseeded installation (which uses dhcp despite the preseed-files)
[02:45] <Kamion> pitti: sounds reasonable, given that the language pack translation deadline has passed
[02:46] <Kamion> tepsipakki: have you looked at the preconfiguration file example in the installation manual? it has an example of how to do this
[02:46] <Kamion> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/apcs01.html
[02:46] <tepsipakki> kamion: not for awhile..
[02:49] <jbailey> daniels: ping
[02:49] <bob2> EPUBTIMEIN.AU
[02:49] <jbailey> Ah, 'k
[02:49] <jbailey> Right, it's after the workday Friday there, as opposed to before it, here.
[02:50] <bob2> the magic of timezones ;-p
[02:51] <dholbach> doko: what about berlin release party?
[02:53] <Riddell> Znarl: would you be able to restart the kubuntu rc torrents and look at why the images arn't syncing?
[02:55] <Znarl> Riddell : ok.
[02:56] <tepsipakki> kamion: that example doesn't seem to work. /target/etc/network/interfaces still shows dhcp-config
[02:57] <tepsipakki> kamion: the preseed-file has been loaded correctly
[02:59] <Kamion> tepsipakki: netboot or CD install?
[02:59] <tepsipakki> kamion: netboot
[02:59] <Kamion> tepsipakki: what method are you using to load the preseed file?
[02:59] <tepsipakki> kamio: http
[03:00] <Kamion> tepsipakki: do you think that network configuration might need to happen before loading the preseed file over HTTP? :-)
[03:00] <tepsipakki> hrmh
[03:00] <Kamion> tepsipakki: look up near the top of that example - it has an example of passing netcfg parameters on the command line rather than in a preseed file, to avoid exactly this problem
[03:01] <infinity> mvo : Yeah, having the usplash init script chvt back to 1 iff we're on 8 sounds sane to me.
[03:01] <tepsipakki> kamion: yeah, would've been a lot nicer to do it via preseeding..
[03:01] <Kamion> tepsipakki: you can, but you have to modify the initrd to do that
[03:01] <mvo> infinity: thanks
[03:02] <Kamion> the installer will look for a preseed file in /preseed.cfg in the initrd
[03:02] <Kamion> (passing kernel parameters like that is preseeding, BTW, just a different method)
[03:03] <tepsipakki> kamion: ok, thanks
[03:03] <infinity> mvo : Err, wait.  What will that do if gdm has started?... Will fgconsole report 7, even though the script's parent is vt8?
[03:03] <Kamion> tepsipakki: np
[03:05] <daniels> jbailey: asdfaser
[03:05] <mvo> infinity: fgconsole will report 7 (but I'll re-check that before I upload anything :)
[03:05] <jbailey> daniels: Basically just to say thanks. =)
[03:05] <jbailey> daniels: I knew testing my fix before uploading was the right idea ;)
[03:05] <daniels> jbailey: oh, for fr_CA?
[03:05] <infinity> mvo : Please.  I don't want us to do anything dumb here. :)
[03:05] <daniels> heh
[03:05] <jbailey> daniels: Yup! =)
[03:06] <jbailey> daniels: Since I now live in French Canada, it'll save me much annoyance. =)
[03:06] <mvo> infinity: I wouldn't want to win the brown paperback award either :)
[03:06] <daniels> jbailey: i could've told you off the boot that VARIANT=pc104 was totally wrong, but didn't even look at that bug tbh, so feel free to point me at bugs you've just filed if you want me to actually see it
[03:06] <jbailey> daniels: Honestly, I had assumed it wasn't Breezy material and that you probably had some that were.
[03:07] <infinity> mvo : It's probably safe to assume tha tif we're stuck on vt8, there's a chance we didn't properly reset the fonts, either, so I'd just make this test an || with the pidof usplash test.
[03:07] <tepsipakki> kamion: there should be a netcfg-phase2 that would put preseeded config in /target ;)
[03:07] <jbailey> daniels: mdz pointed me at it and marked it 5.10, so I gave it a shot =)
[03:07] <jbailey> daniels: X now officially scares me more than gcc or glibc. =)
[03:07] <daniels> heh
[03:08] <daniels> jbailey: dude, that's the *easy* bit.  try 15372. :)
[03:08] <mvo> infinity: sounds sane 
[03:08] <tepsipakki> kamion: I mean that its ok if the installer used dhcp internally, but after reboot would use a static config
[03:09] <tepsipakki> kamion: but maybe that's a wishlist item..
[03:09] <jbailey> daniels: Right.  For instance. =)
[03:09] <doko> daniels, seb128: just did a hoary->breezy upgrade, I still get the popup in gnome about non-matching X and Gnome keyboard layouts.
[03:09] <pitti> sivang: here?
[03:09] <jbailey> daniels: I may have to debug things in 4 different assembly languages, but at least all the assembly languages are *Documented* =)
[03:09] <Diziet> I am right in thinking that people aren't supposed to confirm their own bug reports, aren't I ?
[03:09] <jbailey> Diziet: Generally, yes.
[03:09] <ogra> Diziet, yes
[03:10] <jbailey> Diziet: I don't think it would be wrong if 12 people on the channel all said "Hey, we see that too!"
[03:10] <Diziet> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17240, if anyone wants to be slightly amused.
[03:10] <Robot101> wtf does gnome-power-manager register itself to the session manager as "GNOME Power Manager"? unsurprisingly, that binary doesn't exist, so it never restarts.
[03:10] <jbailey> Diziet: But that's pretty rare, and still generally not worth it.
[03:10] <Diziet> jbailey: Right.  Not quite the situation here.
[03:10] <daniels> doko: i know, and not my problem
[03:11] <ogra> Robot101, works fine here
[03:11] <seb128> doko: speak with pitti about it, seems to be german specific
[03:11] <seb128> dunno what weird keyboard you guys use
[03:12] <seb128> I've no issue with french one
[03:12] <pitti> seb128: what's the problem?
[03:12] <seb128> pitti: <doko> daniels, seb128: just did a hoary->breezy upgrade, I still get the popup in gnome about non-matching X and Gnome keyboard layouts.
[03:12] <daniels> Diziet: DUDE.
[03:12] <Robot101> ogra: ver 0.1.2-2ubuntu1?
[03:12] <jbailey> jdub: Eh.  Dis-le moi en Octobre! ;)
[03:12] <seb128> jdub: hey. gdm slowness fixed ? :)
[03:12] <pitti> seb128: ah, I see
[03:12] <jdub> seb128: yes!
[03:12] <seb128> jdub: ROCK
[03:12] <jdub> seb128: i saw you uploaded the canvas fix too
[03:13] <segfault> Man, Ubuntu in pt_BR is rocking.
[03:13] <ogra> Robot101, yes.... since some months...
[03:13] <daniels> Diziet: the only way to input characters for Asian languages is to use input methods, such as scim and uim.  the fact that gecko requires you to set an environment variable to achieve this is neither here nor there.
[03:13] <seb128> jdub: yeah, as jordi bloged some time ago I need to do uploads, upload something ... anything :p
[03:13] <jdub> seb128: heh
[03:13] <Robot101> ogra: really now, it doesn't work
[03:13] <Robot101> 4,id=103e84b0af000112868955800000066950007
[03:13] <Robot101> 4,RestartStyleHint=2
[03:13] <Robot101> 4,Program=GNOME Power Manager
[03:13] <Robot101> ..
[03:13] <jbailey> Diziet: I like how the glibc folks have an open bug in their bugzilla that basically says "We don't support end users building glibc  themselves.  Go away".  They take bad bug reports and mark them of duplicates of that one. =)
[03:13] <Robot101> 4,RestartCommand=GNOME\\ Power\\ Manager --sm-config-prefix /GNOME\\ Power\\ Manager-YBSXVJ/ --sm-client-id 103e84b0af000112868955800000066950007 --screen 0
[03:13] <Robot101> ogra: ^^ NO :P
[03:13] <Diziet> daniels: Ah.  Um, that's very lame.  It's still a hopeless bug report.
[03:14] <doko> pitti, seb128: after the upgrade, language-pack-gnome-de is not installed
[03:14] <ogra> Robot101, thats why we left it in universe... its simply not ready for more than battery status reporting
[03:14] <pitti> doko: sure, there is an upgrade note
[03:14] <daniels> Diziet: a hopeless bug report that I've reopened, in any case; set it to NEEDINFO if you cannot reproduce it and need more information.
[03:14] <pitti> doko: we can't do it automaticalyl
[03:14] <seb128> doko: you should get a notify note about it, no?
[03:14] <jbailey> Diziet: http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=333
[03:14] <seb128> doko: language packs have changed note
[03:14] <ogra> Robot101, but i hae no problem with it staring in the session
[03:14] <Diziet> IME trying to extract information from these kind of submitters is a waste of time.
[03:15] <Lathiat> hrm, gstreamer is defaulting to ESD
[03:15] <Lathiat> i thought we were defaultking to ALSA
[03:15] <daniels> Diziet: no, it is not.
[03:15] <jbailey> Lathiat: esd makes more sense for systems without hardware mixers.
[03:15] <ivoks> Lathiat: libsdl1.2debian is OSS default, not ALSA too :/
[03:15] <daniels> Diziet: ot
[03:15] <daniels> er
[03:15] <Lathiat> jbailey: but we run dmix
[03:16] <daniels> Diziet: it's what helps us fix bugs.
[03:16] <jbailey> Ah do we?
[03:16] <jbailey> Hmm.
[03:16] <doko> well, yes ...
[03:16] <Lathiat> indeed
[03:16] <Diziet> daniels: MMV.
[03:16] <Lathiat> and esd with videos ends up with terrible audio sync *all* th etime
[03:16] <daniels> Diziet: people not knowing first off exactly what bug submitters need does not make the bugs any less relevant.
[03:16] <jbailey> I should check, my wife's machine seems to still suck for multiple inputs.
[03:16] <Lathiat> it was alsa at one point
[03:16] <daniels> Diziet: honestly, if you reported a bug on X, I would not have enough information from you to solve the bug.
[03:17] <daniels> Diziet: you require specialised knowledge to effectively report bugs on various components, and that's not something we can require off the bat.  it requires gentle guidance.  if you need any kind of specific information from the reporter, reply and ask for that exact information.  replying with a generalised URL is pointless and insulting.
[03:18] <Diziet> I disagree.  The generalised URL contains sensible and useful advice that anyone should follow when giving a bug report.  It's unfortunate that our bug reporting channel makes that harder (did I mention how much I hate bugzilla?) but IME people who submit such short and content-free
[03:18] <Diziet> bug reports are rarely able to produce more and useful information.
[03:18] <seb128> carlos: does rosetta force the encoding on a file for export?
[03:18] <carlos> no
[03:19] <carlos> seb128, we use the one that the last .po had when was imported
[03:19] <doko> jbailey: what do I have to do to enable usplash after an hoary->breezy upgrade? it's not enabled automatically
[03:19] <daniels> Diziet: again, if there was a report following that guide to the letter, would not be a useful bug for xorg.
[03:19] <jbailey> doko: Install it, and reinstall the kernel
[03:19] <jbailey> Or dpkg-reconfigure the kernel, rather.
[03:19] <Diziet> Have you actually read what it says ?  It doesn't say anything particularly specific.
[03:19] <daniels> Diziet: my attitude is not to tell them to piss off and magically learn how to report bugs that will be useful with zero interaction, but to instruct them how, so they get their bugs fixed, and my software becomes more useful to people who, say, don't speak english.
[03:19] <seb128> carlos: zyga says that tsclient/ru.po encoding is broken on the source package, on rosetta but correct on export
[03:20] <doko> jbailey: so this not supposed to work out of the box?
[03:20] <jbailey> doko: Because of upgrade ordering, there's only so much we can do.
[03:20] <daniels> Diziet: so how are people supposed to know that they have to attach Xorg.0.log and probably xorg.conf, to enable me to solve their bug?
[03:20] <infinity> Diziet : When someone reports a segfault in software, it's a bug, whether you like the report or not.  There's not such thing as an "invalid segfault".
[03:20] <jbailey> doko: For dapper, we'll force the initramfs to be regenerated.
[03:20] <infinity> Diziet : Asking them for help debugging it and digging deeper is not generally considered a bad thing.
[03:20] <daniels> Diziet: even if they're relatively smart and give me a backtrace, a BT showing that it's hung in drmCommandNone() is utterly useless, because I need to know what command was submitted *before* that that has wedged the chip.
[03:21] <daniels> Diziet: my point is that you need specialised knowledge to properly report bugs, and you cannot just handwave that away.
[03:21] <jbailey> doko: There's an update-initramfs tool in Breezy that could be used, but it requires some changes in the kernel scripts that Ben and Fabio wanted more than a couple weeks of testing  on.
[03:21] <Diziet> What's backtraces got to do with it ?
[03:21] <daniels> Diziet: sigh, my point is about bug reporting in general.
[03:21] <carlos> seb128, hmm the procedure is: we get the encofing field inside the .po file and recode the content of the .po file and recode it from that one to UTF-8
[03:21] <seb128> carlos: so you recode it
[03:22] <carlos> seb128, then, on export, we get that encoding and recode the UTF-8 into that  encoding
[03:22] <daniels> Diziet: the point is this -- if you require more information, ask for it.  you might imagine that a full bug report with a backtrace attached is enlightened, and useful.  it may not be.
[03:22] <carlos> seb128, yes, to store it into our database
[03:22] <Diziet> inf: There are segfaults that are caused by unsupported software.  Obviously I agree that segfaults are bugs (with a few obscure exceptions).
[03:22] <carlos> seb128, but on export time, we recode it again
[03:22] <daniels> Diziet: however, the answer is not to say 'well, clearly you're on acid, and you're not actually experiencing any problems'.  the answer is to go work out what you need to find out to fix the bloody thing.
[03:22] <seb128> carlos: how do you know the encoding? using the charset= from Content-Type: ?
[03:22] <Diziet> You seem to be under the misapprehension that bug reports are a scarce resource.
[03:22] <carlos> seb128, yes
[03:23] <lifeless> Diziet: bug fixes are scare
[03:23] <daniels> Diziet: scarce, no.  useful, yes.
[03:23] <seb128> carlos: how do you recode it on export?
[03:23] <Diziet> daniels: No, not all bug reports are useful.
[03:23] <lifeless> Diziet: closing bugs before you determine the cause means you have lost that fix.
[03:23] <Diziet> lifeless: Quite so.
[03:23] <lifeless> :)
[03:23] <carlos> seb128, using python, from UTF-8 to the encoding from Content-Type
[03:23] <daniels> Diziet: if it transforms someone's system to 'utterly useless' (let's assume that Chinese people actually want to communicate in Mandarin) to 'wonderful', then we should bust our arse to fix that.
[03:23] <Diziet> Err, no.  It's quite likely to recur.
[03:23] <daniels> Diziet: not to say 'please come back when you have a clue'.
[03:24] <Lathiat> pitti: about?
[03:24] <daniels> Diziet: yes, and when it recurs, people will find the now-open report, and contribute to that.
[03:24] <daniels> Diziet: if not, you can close one as a dupe of the other.
[03:24] <pitti> Lathiat: right over here :-)
[03:24] <Diziet> daniels: Could you do me a favour and read Simon's essay and then tell me if you think that it was helpful advice ?
[03:24] <Lathiat> pitti: i thought we were using alsa by default?
[03:24] <doko> fabbione: ping
[03:24] <infinity> Diziet : Even a bug caused by unsupported (in this case, Universe) software isn't "INVALID", it should just be reassigned to that software, or you should kindly ask the submitter to submit a bug in Malone against the affected product (but only AFTER you've confirmed the segv isn't happenning deep in the bowels of firefox or GTK, or something we DO support)
[03:24] <Kamion> There's a case for closing bugs when people don't reply to requests for information for a long time. I'm not so sure about closing them straight off due to incomplete information.
[03:24] <daniels> Diziet: i've read it, and it's very helpful advice.
[03:24] <pitti> Lathiat: as backend, yes
[03:24] <daniels> Diziet: it is not, however, justification for closing bugs off the bat.
[03:24] <Lathiat> pitti: for esd?
[03:24] <Lathiat> pitti: having esd as sync for gstreamer sucks, because the a/v sync is horrid 
[03:25] <pitti> Lathiat: we use libesd-alsa0, yes
[03:25] <Diziet> daniels: So you'd support me saying `please read this essay, and submit more information, and then I will look at your report' ?
[03:25] <pitti> Lathiat: I know, but tell me something better
[03:25] <Kamion> They can always be marked NEEDINFO and you can save a query for your own bugs minus those marked NEEDINFO, if you don't want to see them during triage.
[03:25] <Lathiat> pitti: set the gstreamer sink to alsa?
[03:25] <pitti> Lathiat: polypaudio isn't there yet, and it is pretty much abandoned upstream
[03:25] <daniels> Diziet: debbugs has a + moreinfo tag.  bz has a NEEDINFO status.  there is a reason why bugtrackers have these sort of statuses, rather than closing it with 'fuck off and come back later, or preferably not at all'.
[03:25] <Lathiat> pitti: if esd is only going to use alsa anyway, and we're always using dmix
[03:25] <Lathiat> pitti: it cant' get any worse
[03:25] <pitti> Lathiat: and alsa dmix fails for many people
[03:25] <Lathiat> pitti: dmix isnt configured out of the box anymore?
[03:25] <pitti> Lathiat: I'll try direct alsa again for dapper
[03:25] <ogra> daniels, malone has no such status ;)
[03:25] <daniels> Diziet: depends.  if you can reproduce that bug yourself, then no, I would not.  if you genuinely need more information in order to reproduce it, then yes, go ahead.
[03:25] <pitti> Lathiat: dmix *is* used
[03:26] <Lathiat> pitti: does dmix only screw up when you actually have more than 1 stream then?
[03:26] <pitti> Lathiat: but for the cases where it doesn't work (still too many), folks still get mixing through esd
[03:26] <pitti> Lathiat: it seems so
[03:26] <Lathiat> pitti: ah ok
[03:26] <Lathiat> pitti: makes sense then
[03:26] <Lathiat> i thought when dmix was broken, it just plain didnt work
[03:26] <pitti> Lathiat: for dapper I'll immediately drop it and urge people to report bugs
[03:27] <Lathiat> pitti: ok, nps
[03:27] <pitti> Lathiat: then folks can manually install esound if they really need to
[03:27] <Lathiat> pitti: well, having esd running isnt so bad
[03:27] <Lathiat> pitti: having it used by gstreamer is what sucks :)
[03:27] <Diziet> daniels: Well, obviously if I can reproduce it I'll try to fix it (or decide it's too hard, or look for it upstream, or whatever).
[03:27] <pitti> Lathiat: right, we could switch the gstreamer default for dapper
[03:28] <pitti> Lathiat: makes it easier to switch
[03:28] <Lathiat> pitti: yep, but keep esd
[03:28] <Lathiat> pitti: for sound effects/gnome apps that use it direct
[03:28] <Lathiat> pitti: and then if people have issues, they can easily switch to it
[03:28] <Lathiat> pitti: or we could even employ some kind of blacklist
[03:28] <pitti> Lathiat: yes, as long as dmix sucks
[03:28] <Lathiat> (or whitelist)
[03:28] <daniels> Diziet: so why did you mark it as 'go away' before you even attempted to reproduce it, decide it's too hard, or look for it upstream?
[03:29] <Lathiat> pitti: the other annoyign thign si taht dvd playback with gstreamer is totally broken with esd
[03:29] <Lathiat> as in it hardly works
[03:30] <Lathiat> the video slows right down, etc
[03:30] <Lathiat> and when it does work its verry jittery
[03:30] <Kamion> daniels: (he did attempt to reproduce it and couldn't, as the bug log indicates)
[03:30] <Diziet> daniels: Well, I used the information provided to try to reproduce it (if you'll read what I wrote you'll see that).  Of course it WFM.
[03:30] <pitti> Lathiat: right; for computers where dmix works, people can switch to alsa
[03:30] <Kamion> Lathiat: I'm working on that NTFS thing now
[03:30] <Lathiat> pitti: yup, i know, just throwing that argument on the end :)
[03:30] <Lathiat> Kamion: sweet, thanks
[03:30] <Lathiat> Kamion: if you need any help, shoot, its fairly generic tho
[03:30] <Kamion> Lathiat: nah, I have it fixed already, just needs a bit more testing here
[03:31] <Lathiat> Kamion: cool
[03:31] <Lathiat> Kamion: let me know if you upload it/get a cd with it and i'll try it out
[03:31] <Kamion> Lathiat: the problem is approximately "partman has no support for ntfs other than quickly-hacked-in resize support"
[03:31] <Diziet> Anyway, I should go and do something useful rather than arguing on IRC.  I could go try to fix that gs weirdness.
[03:31] <pitti> Lathiat: yes, we have to find a smooth transition
[03:31] <Lathiat> Kamion: ah, ok
[03:31] <Lathiat> pitti: yup
[03:31] <Diziet> Oh, before I do ...
[03:31] <Lathiat> Kamion: yeh that resize support is horrid :P)
[03:31] <Kamion> Lathiat: so the fix is kind of adding a new feature, which is tricky at this point; but I think it's safe
[03:31] <Diziet> Kamion: I didn't get around to 14236.  (NTFS custom mountpoints._)
[03:31] <Lathiat> it just did something, and i had no idea if it worked, or what :)
[03:32] <Diziet> Is that what you're talking about now ?
[03:32] <daniels> seb128: yeah, it's german-specific.
[03:32] <Lathiat> was afraid i might have trashed mjy windows by just truncating the partition :)
[03:32] <Diziet> It didn't seem vitally important so I kind of let it slide ...
[03:32] <Kamion> Diziet: Yes, it is. No problem; it turned out to be closely associated with another one of my bugs, and easy enough to fix once I realised what was going on
[03:33] <Diziet> (Just after I took it, mdz made me ffox maintainer.)
[03:33] <Diziet> OK.  Shall I assign it back to you ?
[03:33] <Kamion> Diziet: I just did
[03:33] <Diziet> Oh, OK.
[03:33] <Diziet> Thanks.
[03:33] <Kamion> Diziet: It wasn't vitally important in itself, no. A related symptom was that NTFS partitions didn't get automounted, unlike FAT partitions, which was somewhat more important - I only realised today that they were connected.
[03:34] <Diziet> Yes, that sounds more serious, indeed.
[03:34] <Diziet> `Ok, it's the old problem with the flash plugin, i made the page not crash by putting export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 at the beginning of /usr/bin/firefox.'  I do feel like I've come in halfway through lots of these conversations ...
[03:37] <daniels> Diziet: that's a flash bug that xlib exposed when we added argb32 visuals.
[03:38] <daniels> Diziet: basically it just assumes that the default visual exposed will have 0-bit alpha, instead of the 8-bit visual at the top of the list when you have composite.
[03:38] <daniels> macromedia are the suck, is the executive summary.
[03:38] <daniels> (that environment variable was added especially for flash.)
[03:38] <Diziet> Right.  Um, shouldn't we organise a workaround ?
[03:38] <fabbione> doko: pong
[03:39] <Diziet> The whole flash thing is pretty evil anyway, but if we're going to `support' it (plugin finder, etc.) then it should generally work.
[03:39] <fabbione> Diziet: yo
[03:39] <Diziet> fabbione: Hello.
[03:39] <fabbione> Diziet: see /msg :)
[03:39] <fabbione> just a few notes
[03:40] <doko> fabbione: when should the OOo build for sparc finish?
[03:40] <daniels> Diziet: arguably the firefox wrapper script should export that variable, yes.  but we support proprietary software unfortunately, which is just something we all have to deal with.
[03:40] <fabbione> doko: -ENOCLUE
[03:41] <fabbione> doko: probably tomorrow
[03:41] <doko> which module is it currently building?
[03:42] <fabbione> Making: ../../unxlngs.pro/slo/styleexp.obj
[03:42] <Diziet> So another question I'm going to ask is: what effect will it have on the rest of firefox if I just set that variable in the wrapper script ?
[03:42] <fabbione> if it tells you anything
[03:43] <Diziet> NB that firefox invokes all kinds of stuff eg other plugins, xpdf, image viewers, ...
[03:43] <daniels> Diziet: none
[03:43] <Diziet> So what are these new visuals _for_ ?  I mean, which applications use them ?
[03:43] <daniels> Diziet: if things are relying on argb32 visuals right now, they're going to be completely broken
[03:43] <Diziet> Or to put it another way, why don't we just turn them off globally ?
[03:43] <daniels> Diziet: anything which needs to do compositing.  it's just that extra 8 bits of alpha.
[03:43] <Diziet> (Not that I'm suggesting we should, but ...)
[03:43] <daniels> Diziet: because some apps use it.  but not firefox.
[03:44] <doko> fabbione: find a line where you see ooo-build/build/src680-m129 and the dir following that path is the module
[03:44] <Kamion> daniels: stuff like xcompmgr?
[03:44] <Diziet> How do you know that none of those apps will be run from firefox if you don't know what they are ?
[03:44] <fabbione> doko: xmloff
[03:44] <Diziet> Sounds like eg gimp might well use it.
[03:44] <daniels> Kamion: xcompmgr doesn't, but it enables it.
[03:44] <Diziet> I'd have to check the mime bindings to see if firefox can ever run gimp.
[03:45] <Diziet> An alternative would be to try to have firefox arrange for only plugins or perhaps only this plugin to run with that variable.
[03:45] <daniels> Kamion: basically ... it means the alpha bit actually has an effect.  but unless you're using the composite extension (either xcompmgr, or asking the server to do its own internal compositing), it just acts as if all the alpha bits are set anyway.
[03:45] <doko> fabbione: nearly the half ...
[03:45] <fabbione> doko: ok. than i expect to finish by tomorrow morning
[03:46] <fabbione> (take into account it's building in parallel with other stuff)
[03:46] <fabbione> i can't take the risk of killing the buildd for nothing
[03:46] <fabbione> not at this point in time
[03:46] <daniels> Kamion: so if you rely on the alpha bit being meaningful atm (e.g. if you're using subwindows and you're relying on visibility down to the parents), you're stuffed anyway.
[03:47] <fabbione> doko: let say within the next 10 hours it should finish.. i started it this morning at 7am
[03:47] <daniels> Kamion: but it's a graceful degradation -- you just don't expose that visual.  so when your app queries xlib for the available visuals, you just don't find anything which exposes visuals.
[03:47] <fabbione> so you can make your calculation
[03:47] <doko> fabbione: hmm, ok, I'll delay my upload
[03:47] <fabbione> doko: there is also another point.. openoffice-org2-common Depends: oo2-java
[03:47] <fabbione> but sparc doesn't build java
[03:47] <daniels> s/exposes visuals/exposes anything with alpha/
[03:48] <Diziet> daniels: So why wouldn't it be OK to set this variable globally ?
[03:48] <doko> fabbione: ok, I'll change that
[03:48] <fabbione> doko: is that addressed somehow?
[03:48] <fabbione> doko: just verify that
[03:48] <fabbione> doko: because according to debian/rules JAVA=no for sparc
[03:48] <daniels> Diziet: because we don't need it, and it limits our ability to use compositing globally later.
[03:49] <daniels> basically, one of the main reasons our desktop is shit right now is that we don't use composite.  nothing to do with transparency and bling, just the fact that we do Exposes back to the client window to redraw.
[03:49] <Diziet> So does setting it in the firefox wrapper script.  Remember that firefox might run pretty much any program from the mime system, or anything the user selects as `open with ...'.
[03:49] <bddebian> Morning
[03:49] <daniels> there's only one situation we know of at the moment where exposing an argb32 visual breaks, and that's flash.  so let's just work around it for flash.
[03:49] <daniels> Diziet: sure, but that's something we'll just have to suck up.
[03:50] <Diziet> Seems like it would be strange and flakey to me and we risk breaking something else.
[03:50] <segfault> pitti: any plan for the next langpack release?
[03:50] <pitti> segfault: at Monday
[03:50] <doko> fabbione: ?? openoffice-org2-common does not depend on oo2-java
[03:50] <Diziet> I wonder if firefox already has some kind of kludge hook thing for plugins.  If not maybe it should do.
[03:51] <segfault> pitti: nice!
[03:51] <Kamion> Diziet: s/breaking/failing to fix/, I think?
[03:51] <fabbione> doko: sorry right...
[03:51] <daniels> Diziet: well, firefox is your baby, so it's your call.  but it's basically 'breaking flash' vs 'not breaking flash'.
[03:52] <daniels> trust me, if your app cannot deal with not having an argb32 visual, it's fundamentally fucked anyway.  it won't work with >95% of deployed X servers today.
[03:53] <Diziet> kamion: True.
[03:53] <Diziet> I'll see if I can find somewhere more selective to put it.
[03:53] <Diziet> If not I'll try it out in the wrapper script.
[03:53] <Diziet> Not that I have an X server which can do argb32 anyway, but.
[03:54] <Diziet> What's the visual name in X11-speak ?
[03:54] <Diziet> JOOI.
[03:54] <daniels> Diziet: it's called a 'visual'
[03:54] <Diziet> No, I mean, like TrueColor and DirectColor.
[03:54] <daniels> each visual has a visual ID, which is variable per-server, per-start, et al.
[03:54] <Diziet> The `class'.
[03:54] <daniels> true, IIRC.
[03:54] <daniels> er, s/true/direct/
[03:54] <daniels> i'm pretty sure it's not true or pseudo.
[03:55] <daniels> since each of argb has 8 bits, so you don't need to go through a clut
[03:55] <Diziet> Um, so does this reuse some mbz bits in the visual info structure ?
[03:55] <daniels> no
[03:56] <Diziet> Because my xdpyinfo here doesn't show any spare space for alpha channel.
[03:56] <zyga> is it possible to have ubuntu-desktop-no-openoffice.org
[03:56] <Diziet> I mean, it doesn't print `alpha mask: 0x00' or some such.
[03:56] <zyga> so that people that don't need it can get rid of all that java packages 
[03:56] <Kamion> zyga: no, sorry
[03:56] <Kamion> zyga: remove ubuntu-desktop
[04:00] <tepsipakki> kamion: mangling the initrd helped.. now I suppose the usual preseed-tricks apply to /preseed.cfg, that is you can load other files too?
[04:03] <Kamion> tepsipakki: I don't understand the question?
[04:04] <tepsipakki> kamion: sorry... d-i preseed/include_command works?
[04:05] <tepsipakki> kamion: from the /preseed.cfg on the initrd
[04:05] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Oh!
[04:05] <jbailey> Your swap partition isn't in the same volume group as your root volume.
[04:05] <tepsipakki> duh
[04:05] <tepsipakki> should be
[04:06] <tepsipakki> the poo-swap was a joke..
[04:06] <jbailey> Oh.
[04:06] <jbailey> Hmm
[04:06] <jbailey> tepsipakki: I had apparently missed a step.  break stops before lvm is activated, my bad.
[04:07] <tepsipakki> ah
[04:07] <jbailey> tepsipakki: You need to run /scripts/local-top/lvm first
[04:07] <Kamion> tepsipakki: yes
[04:07] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok, I'll test it now
[04:08] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Cool, thanks.
[04:08] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Do you have another box you can stay on IRC with handy?
[04:08] <zyga> Kamion: how are seeds generated?
[04:09] <tepsipakki> jbailey: yes
[04:09] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Lovely.  Lemme know when you're at the break point
[04:12] <tritium> Kamion, sorry I missed your pong.
[04:12] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok, just ran /scripts/local-top/lvm
[04:12] <tritium> Kamion, I emailed elmo for a sync, so I'm taken care of.
[04:14] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[04:14] <jbailey> tepsipakki: 'kay.  Did the /dev/mapper stuff appear?
[04:14] <tepsipakki> jbailey: nope
[04:14] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Is your harddrive visible in /dev ?
[04:15] <jbailey> Like /dev/hda#? 
[04:15] <jdub> mako: ping
[04:15] <tepsipakki> f*ck, us-layout bit me
[04:15] <mako> jdub: dude
[04:15] <mako> jdub: whats up?
[04:15] <jdub> mako: aha! :)
[04:16] <mako> jdub: where are you?
[04:16] <jdub> mako: was stalking your front door last night :-)
[04:16] <jdub> mako: hotel in cambridge
[04:16] <mako> jdub: damnit
[04:16] <daniels> tepsipakki: us layout is love
[04:16] <jdub> dude, your doorbell is a *phone*
[04:16] <mako> jdub: yes i know
[04:16] <tepsipakki> daniels: well, it broke my shell ;)
[04:17] <daniels> tepsipakki: ...
[04:17] <mjg59> jdub: Hello?
[04:17] <jdub> yo mjg59 
[04:17] <mako> jdub: you need to call me and/or mika.. it's in italics.. i got your message but didn't know how to get back to you
[04:17] <mako> jdub: did you get in the building at all?
[04:17] <daniels> mjg59: also -- 141 or 146?
[04:17] <jdub> mako: nup
[04:17] <tepsipakki> daniels: this is the initramfs-shell..
[04:17] <daniels> mjg59: bitch
[04:17] <mjg59> daniels: 146
[04:17] <mako> jdub: blast
[04:17] <jdub> mako: yeah, don't have raoming
[04:17] <daniels> mjg59: okay
[04:17] <daniels> mjg59: represent
[04:17] <mako> jdub: mika is there right now
[04:18] <tepsipakki> jbailey: put zsh in the image ;)
[04:18] <mako> jdub: i thought you were coming today
[04:18] <mjg59> jdub: We need to arrange timings for next week
[04:18] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Ahahahahah
[04:18] <jbailey> no
[04:18] <jbailey> =)
[04:18] <jdub> mjg59: yeah
[04:18] <jdub> mako: aha
[04:18] <jdub> mako: well, i might be having lunch with luis
[04:18] <tepsipakki> jbailey: well atleast the same settings as in the installer, it has completion too =)
[04:19] <mako> jdub: that's fine.. i have lunch with wikipedia people
[04:19] <bddebian> daniels: Isn't there a metapackage that provides libxau-dev, libxmu-dev, etc?
[04:19] <daniels> bddebian: no
[04:19] <mako> jdub: i can probably get off early afternoon.. this evening is sushi feast
[04:19] <bddebian> daniels: Crap, OK, thx
[04:19] <mako> jdub: are you in the hotel the whole time or ONE NIGHT ONKLY
[04:19] <mako> ?
[04:20] <daniels> bddebian: xlibs-dev doesn't provide any of the crap that used to be in xlibs-static-dev
[04:20] <jdub> mako: was hoping just the night
[04:20] <mako> jdub: ok good
[04:21] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok finally.. yes my /dev/hd* is visible
[04:21] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Okay.  Do you have any partial lvm volumes that I might corrupt?
[04:22] <tepsipakki> jbailey: tmp?
[04:22] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Sorry, I'm being unclear, too many things at once.
[04:22] <jbailey> tepsipakki: You don't have removable drives, right?
[04:22] <tepsipakki> no
[04:22] <jbailey> Cool.
[04:22] <jbailey> Please do "vgchange -ay" then.
[04:23] <tepsipakki> failure to communicate with kernel device-mapper driver etc
[04:24] <tepsipakki> jbailey: i don't think the lvm-script actually did anything.. no modules got loaded etc
[04:25] <tepsipakki> if /sys/module is to be trusted?
[04:25] <tepsipakki> or /proc/modules
[04:25] <Lathiat> Kamion: thanks
[04:25] <Lathiat> Kamion: (ntfs)
[04:26] <Lathiat> i'll try out the next dail
[04:26] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Hmm
[04:27] <jbailey> modprobe dm-mod
[04:27] <jbailey> Then try the vgchange -ay
[04:27] <jbailey> Let's brute force this first until it works, then we'll make it right. =)
[04:27] <tepsipakki> yes, 5 logical volume(s) ..... active
[04:28] <tepsipakki> and /dev/mapper/* has them
[04:29] <Riddell> mvo: you had a better kdm patch for me for console fonts?
[04:29] <tepsipakki> jbailey: umm, I have to leave rsn, but will be back in, say, 5-6 hours
[04:31] <jdub> mjg59: so 12th is formal hall, 14th is GLUE
[04:31] <mjg59> jdub: And release party is when?
[04:31] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Cool, thanks.
[04:32] <jdub> oh, i thought you wanted to do release party at one of those?
[04:32] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok, see you then!
[04:32] <mjg59> jdub: Uh, no - that's being organised separately
[04:32] <mjg59> You probably want to speak to Scott
[04:32] <jdub> scott for...?
[04:32] <mjg59> Finding out what's being organised
[04:33] <jdub> for which?
[04:33] <mjg59> The release party
[04:33] <jdub> oh
[04:33] <mjg59> Since Mark generally hosts something
[04:33] <bddebian> Did someone say party?? :-)
[04:33] <jdub> maybe that'll be the 13th
[04:33] <j^> did anyone look into this? http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15309
[04:34] <j^> have the same problem on ibm X30, black screen + pointer, desktop is only visible aber switching to console and back
[04:35] <daniels> j^: can you trigger same with xset dpms force off, then xset dpms force on?
[04:37] <bddebian> daniels: Is libxaw-headers supposed to provide libXaw.so since is replaces libxaw8-dev ??
[04:37] <j^> daniels no,xset dpms force off;xset dpms force on;
[04:37] <j^>  the desktop is back once i move the mouse
[04:37] <daniels> bddebian: no, you want libxaw7-dev
[04:37] <bddebian> daniels: OK, thx
[04:37] <daniels> j^: fuck
[04:38] <daniels> j^: does disabling gl screensavers help it?
[04:38] <j^> i have blank only as screensaver
[04:39] <daniels> hm
[04:40] <Lathiat> hrm, i have a package with a build-dep on xlibmesa-gl-dev, it says it cant find it, but x11proto-gl-dev replaces it, but with that installed, it still doesn't see the dep as satisfied (so i cant build-dep it) is that an apt bug or proper behavior or what?
[04:40] <Kamion> replaces != satisfies-dependencies-on
[04:40] <Lathiat> Kamion: ah ok
[04:40] <Kamion> you want to look for something that provides it
[04:40] <Lathiat> oh i have that
[04:41] <Lathiat> just wondering why it offered that solution btu wasnt happy wiuth it
[04:41] <Lathiat> how i have to manually paste 10 lines of build-deps ;p
[04:41] <Kamion> 'libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev' is probably a suitable replacement build-dep?
[04:42] <Lathiat> Kamion: yeh thats not the problem
[04:42] <Kamion> that apt message has always annoyed me; it fosters misunderstanding of Replaces
[04:42] <Lathiat> the problem was getting the rest installed so i can test the package :)
[04:42] <Lathiat> just inconvenient thats all :)
[04:42] <daniels> libgl1-mesa-dev | x11proto-gl-dev | libgl-dev is the canonical b-d
[04:43] <Lathiat> bah
[04:43] <Lathiat> daniels: you know our glu page doens't say that
[04:43] <Kamion> daniels: really? I'd've thought something more like 'libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev, x11proto-gl-dev | libgl-dev'
[04:43] <Lathiat> it was just libgl1-mesa-dev | libgll-dev
[04:43] <Lathiat> last check
[04:43] <Lathiat> *libgl-dev
[04:43] <daniels> Kamion: oh fuck
[04:43] <Lathiat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGLUTransition
[04:43] <daniels> libgl1-mesa-dev | xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, x11proto-gl-dev
[04:44] <daniels> but you shouldn't be requiring x11proto-gl-dev, I don't think
[04:44] <daniels> handwaving amidst the bongsmoke
[04:44] <Lathiat> i hope not :\ 
[04:44] <Lathiat> libgl1-mesa-dev depends on it
[04:44] <Lathiat> as does glu1-mesa-dev
[04:44] <bddebian> bongsmoke?? w00t
[04:44] <daniels> yeah
[04:44] <daniels> long story
[04:45] <Lathiat> daniels: so, which one is it? ;p
[04:47] <daniels> i don't know, and it's too late on a friday night to be caring about work
[04:47] <Lathiat> heh
[04:47] <Lathiat> Kamion: any insight? :)
[04:48] <Kamion> look at the file lists and see which makes sense
[04:49] <elmo> pitti: ?
[04:49] <pitti> elmo: yes?
[04:49] <elmo> pitti: can you do the sip main inclusion review if you haven't already?
[04:49] <elmo> uninstallables == teh suck
[04:50] <pitti> elmo: I cleared the list today and sent mdz a report
[04:50] <pitti> elmo: everything is ready to be promoted
[04:50] <elmo> ok, great thanks
[04:50] <pitti> elmo: I also did some seed adjustments to clean up anastacia output a bit
[04:56] <SteveA> mjg59: ping
[04:57] <mjg59> SteveA: Hi
[04:57] <pitti> seb128: is it known upstream that the calendar selector in the clock is slightly broken? regardless on which day I click, I always get "today" open, not the day I clicked on
[04:58] <SteveA> mjg59: hi.  running breezy (up to date as of 1 week ago) on my laptop.  hangs on suspending.  hibernates, but hangs on coming back to life again. 
[04:58] <SteveA> mjg59: something you can help with?
[04:58] <SteveA> i'm updating to the latest breezy now
[04:58] <mjg59> SteveA: Yes, grab a later acpi-support package
[04:59] <seb128> pitti: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11336 / http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=162305
[04:59] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[04:59] <seb128> np
[05:03] <seb128> elmo: please sync gnome-blog from Debian
[05:05] <torkel> seb128: do you want me to file evolution bugs in b.u.c even though I already have filed them upstream?
[05:06] <seb128> torkel: no, why would you do that ? :)
[05:07] <torkel> seb128: because it crashes evo? :-)
[05:07] <seb128> that has to be fixed upstream
[05:08] <torkel> seb128: and to make it easier for you to track it? :-)
[05:08] <seb128> fill it to bugzilla.ubuntu.com if you have a really trivial patch that fixes an issue
[05:08] <seb128> other way 5.10 is frozen
[05:08] <torkel> sure
[05:08] <seb128> I don't want to track every single upstream issue
[05:08] <seb128> I'm happy if they fix them upstream and we get the fix for free with the new tarballs
[05:09] <seb128> 5.10 is frozen, and I'm not going to patch unstable packages anyway
[05:09] <bddebian> seb128: You updated gpdf from upstream?
[05:10] <seb128> bddebian: no, I've not touched this package since hoary since we use evince now
[05:10] <seb128> bddebian: why?
[05:10] <bddebian> seb128: It FTBFSs
[05:11] <seb128> maybe gcc4 ?
[05:12] <bddebian> Yes
[05:18] <johnm> fabbione: ping.
[05:22] <mdz> morning
[05:22] <jdub> yo mdz
[05:22] <seb128> hi mdz
[05:22] <fabbione> johnm: pong?
[05:23] <johnm> fabbione: mind if I PM?
[05:23] <fabbione> johnm: not at all, but i am quite busy, so i might not be extremely responsive
[05:24] <bddebian> Morning mdz
[05:30] <Riddell> Znarl, elmo: any news of the kubuntu torrents and mirroring?
[05:33] <Znarl> Riddell : Yep, we're still working on it.  Sorry for the delay.
[05:33] <Riddell> Znarl: ok, good luck
[05:36] <bddebian> seb128: Do you think we should morgue gpdf instead of fixing it?
[05:37] <seb128> so people may still use it
[05:37] <seb128> it's not fixed by debian ?
[05:37] <bddebian> OK
[05:37] <bddebian> seb128: They are still at 2.8.something
[05:38] <zoot_> hi, anyone here working on xfce packages?
[05:39] <seb128> bddebian: upstream is not really working on it since evince
[05:39] <seb128> doesn't mean than nobody uses it
[05:39] <bddebian> seb128: Fair enough, I'll try to fix it
[05:39] <janimo> zoot_, I am
[05:40] <zoot_> janimo: hi, have u guys moved or changed the way xfce reads kioskrc?
[05:40] <janimo> zoot_, come over to #xubuntu
[05:40] <zoot_> janimo: thx, c u there
[05:42] <sivang> hmm
[05:42] <sivang> Unpacking replacement nvidia-glx-legacy ...
[05:42] <sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
[05:42] <sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/eclipse-pde-common_3.1-10ubuntu1_all.deb
[05:42] <sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/linux-image-2.6.12-9-686-smp_2.6.12-9.22_i386.deb
[05:42] <sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/linux-image-2.6.12-9-686_2.6.12-9.22_i386.deb
[05:42] <sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[05:44] <sivang> pitti: still upgrading , when finished I will try to reproduce 17175
[05:47] <mdz> Riddell: your promotions to main are now processed
[05:47] <mdz> Riddell: you'll probably want to roll new kubuntu-meta
[05:47] <mdz> Riddell: you may or may not need to wait for the next cron.daily at :03
[05:49] <Kamion> mdz: we should add libxp{-dev,6-dbg} to "rescued from extra", right?
[05:50] <elmo> how did libxp end up coming back?
[05:50] <mdz> +cat >&4 <<SECTION
[05:50] <mdz> +ection "InputDevice"
[05:50] <elmo> I'm sure it's been demoted at least once
[05:50] <mdz> that can't possibly be right
[05:50] <Kamion> elmo: some commercial apps needed it
[05:50] <elmo> ah
[05:50] <Kamion> ones we were trying to get certified
[05:50] <mdz> elmo: e.g., java
[05:51] <pitti> Hi mdz
[05:52] <mdz> pitti: hi, thanks for knocking out the seed syncage
[05:52] <Riddell> mdz: thanks
[05:53] <Kamion> elmo: (#15739)
[05:56] <bddebian> Anyone have any idea why xprint would bring in it's own Printstr.h instead of using it from /usr/include/X11/extentions/ ??
[05:58] <mdz> bddebian: because it's insane
[05:58] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[05:59] <bddebian> Heya madduck
[05:59] <mdz> Kamion: there's a bunch of stuff in anastacia that should be added there, as long as you're at it
[06:00] <\sh> hmm....
[06:01] <mdz> I've just run cron.sync and updated http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[06:02] <mdz> aspell-es is going away
[06:02] <mdz> pretty much everything else there should be rescued
[06:02] <mdz> with the possible exception of schoolbell. ogra?
[06:02] <Kamion> mdz: xorg> 'Option        "Device"        "/dev/input/event0"' doesn't look like a valid shell command, either ...
[06:03] <Kamion> mdz: ok, I'm checking the d-i stuff too - I demoted ufs-modules-*
[06:03] <Riddell> I'll rescue the pykde/pyqt build-deps
[06:03] <Kamion> mdz: weren't we killing mozilla-openoffice.org?
[06:03] <mdz> Riddell: hmm? germinate should handle those fine
[06:03] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, yes, I believe doko said it didn't work
[06:03] <Kamion> right, please don't list build-deps explicitly
[06:04] <Riddell> python-kde3-doc and libqscintilla-doc should be kept if we're having the actualy pacakges in main
[06:05] <Kamion> yes, those aren't build-deps though :-)
[06:05] <Kamion> Riddell: add them to the appropriate subsections of "Rescued from Extra" in supported
[06:06] <\sh> Riddell: u don't want to have pykde/pyqt in main 
[06:07] <wasabi_> Hmmm.
[06:07] <Diziet> Steaming crack-monkeys !
[06:08] <Diziet> # If this is an "official" build, try to build everything.
[06:08] <Diziet> # I.e., don't exit on errors.
[06:08] <wasabi_> umount -l in the initramfs doesn't seem to work
[06:08] <Diziet> ifdef BUILD_OFFICIAL
[06:08] <Diziet>     EXIT_ON_ERROR               = +e
[06:08] <wasabi_> =(
[06:11] <Kamion> \sh: kde-guidance depends on python-kde3, and is in the Kubuntu desktop seed. So yes, we do
[06:12] <SteveA> mjg59: suspend is better now.  it worked, but the screen backlight is off on resume.
[06:12] <mjg59> SteveA: Did it ever work?
[06:12] <SteveA> mjg59: did what ever work?
[06:12] <SteveA> suspend just didn't work before i upgraded just now
[06:12] <\sh> Kamion: no we don't...because the last patches I made are not upstream, and upstream is refusing to take them, they're at least 1 year old...and I don't see any serious support for python-kde3 in main...honestly
[06:12] <mjg59> How about in Hoary?
[06:12] <SteveA> before, it didn't even fully suspend
[06:13] <SteveA> i didn't have this laptop for hoary
[06:13] <mjg59> Ok
[06:13] <Kamion> \sh: it's a bit late to rip stuff out
[06:13] <mjg59> What model is it?
[06:14] <\sh> Kamion: so with next release cycle I will break main :(
[06:14] <Kamion> I think maintainers are entitled to refuse patches, too, so that alone is not a "must be kicked out" criterion
[06:14] <SteveA> mjg59: dell latitude x1
[06:14] <SteveA> intel 955 graphics chip i think
[06:14] <doko> mdz, Kamion: well, it should go to universe for now, it does work, but needs explicitely to be enabled in the OOo2 preferences
[06:14] <\sh> Kamion: no..upstream (real upstream) is not interessted in python-kde3 it's only a "add-on" src support for this is quite annoying...
[06:14] <mjg59> Odd. Should work fine (and does for other people)
[06:15] <mdz> doko: your python-defaults upload  seems to have inadvertently included some local changes from June
[06:16] <SteveA> mjg59: is there a command to turn on the backlight?
[06:16] <\sh> Kamion: I don't say this to produce more work...but when I patched python-kde3 to fix some really serious bugs, I used patches which are at least one year old..so right now, we have a really good running version, which is better then in any other distro..but will break again in dapper
[06:16] <Kamion> mdz: do we need python2.3-moinmoin? I'm assuming that if we can demote old modules, we should
[06:16] <\sh> Kamion: as I said just now to Riddell , python-sip4-qt is ok for main, but not python-kde3
[06:16] <mjg59> SteveA: No
[06:16] <mjg59> It's very machine specific
[06:17] <SteveA> mjg59: aha... i touched the brightness control, and it came back
[06:17] <mjg59> Ah, interesting
[06:17] <Riddell> \sh: why will is break again in dapper?
[06:17] <mdz> Kamion: most of them are useful with zope, but perhaps not moinmoin 
[06:17] <Kamion> \sh: it is *too late*
[06:17] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks for fixing the seeds merge
[06:17] <Kamion> Riddell: np
[06:17] <Kamion> \sh: removing desktop stuff between RC and release isn't generally OK
[06:17] <\sh> Riddell: because the new releases are completly different...and we have to work on the "patches" which will make python-kde3 running again and not segfaulting again 
[06:18] <SteveA> mjg59: yep... backlight is off after resume.  back on if i nudge the brightness a bit.
[06:18] <mjg59> SteveA: Odd
[06:18] <Kamion> SteveA: do you think python2.3-moinmoin is useful in main (we have the python2.4 version)?
[06:18] <\sh> Kamion: I only tell you my concerncs :) 
[06:18] <Kamion> \sh: if desktop applications didn't depend on it, I'd listen
[06:18] <SteveA> Kamion: i don't think so.  we should be encouraging people to use python 2.4.
[06:18] <doko> mdz: reverting ...
[06:18] <mdz> doko: already did
[06:19] <Kamion> Migrated python2.3-moinmoin_1.3.4-6ubuntu1_all.deb from main to universe in breezy suite.
[06:19] <mdz> Kamion: refreshed anastacia.txt
[06:19] <mdz> Kamion: did you commit your seed changes? if so, we should cron.sync
[06:19] <Kamion> I always just run anastacia anyway
[06:19] <SteveA> mjg59: what information do you want to see in a bug report about this?
[06:19] <Kamion> mdz: haven't done all of them yet
[06:20] <Kamion> fabbione: do we want to support the iseries kernel?
[06:20] <fabbione> Kamion: good question.. i never heard of anybody testing them..
[06:20] <fabbione> so i guess not really
[06:20] <SteveA> Kamion: is there much python2.3 stuff in main?
[06:21] <pitti> carloooooos
[06:22] <Kamion> SteveA: no; python2.3, python2.3-dev, plus eight other module packages
[06:22] <Kamion> well, seven module packages and python2.3-sip4-dev
[06:22] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, I'll demote them
[06:22] <mdz> SteveA: if there are python2.3 modules which ought to be in main, please tell us
[06:23] <SteveA> mdz: i'm really thinking the other way
[06:23] <Kamion> SteveA: otherwise, we have docutils, imaging, numeric, sip4-qt3, tk, xml, and zopeinterface, all pulled in by dependencies and/or build-dependencies
[06:23] <doko> SteveA: it's only zope2.8, which needs it
[06:23] <SteveA> mdz: do you have a good reason that python 2.3 is in main at all?  
[06:23] <mdz> SteveA: zope
[06:23] <SteveA> aw poo
[06:23] <SteveA> this has been an issue for the zope community
[06:23] <fabbione> Kamion: fine for me
[06:24] <SteveA> the zope3 people want to use python 2.4 for various good reasons
[06:24] <SteveA> but zope 2.8 is stuck on python 2.3 until some scary "author python code through the web" features get a security audit for python 2.4
[06:24] <doko> SteveA: yes, they can. but there's still no securtiy audit done for zope 2.x running with python2.4.
[06:25] <SteveA> so, zope3 officially still supports python 2.3, although everyone uses it with python 2.4
[06:25] <SteveA> so, don't see any point nin python2.3-sip-dev really
[06:26] <jsgotangco> k good night
[06:26] <SteveA> docutils and imaging and numeric i can see a point for, given zope
[06:26] <Kamion> it's all there because something depends on it
[06:26] <Kamion> none of it is explicitly seeded
[06:26] <SteveA> i see
[06:26] <doko> Kamion: I think, python2.3-sip-dev is a mistake, pulled in by Riddell'ish stuff
[06:28] <SteveA> mjg59: hibernate works, but resuming from hibernate hangs on a text console sayig "swsusp: Need to copy 43534 pages" at the end
[06:30] <pitti> SteveA: are you interested in evaluating bugs in the Rosetta hoary output?
[06:30] <pitti> SteveA: just typed a mail to carlos, shall I CC: anybody?
[06:31] <doko> Kamion: python2.3-sip-dev is a b-d for sip4-qt3, so demotion looks fine
[06:31] <SteveA> pitti: yes please.  also kiko, please
[06:33] <Kamion> doko: if that were true, anastacia would list it
[06:33] <Kamion> it does not
[06:33] <Kamion> doko: sip4-qt3 is in main
[06:34] <zyga> re
[06:34] <zyga> Kamion: did you catch my last question few hours ago?
[06:35] <Kamion> mdz: what about tagcoll and tdb-tools? they're both tools to access data created by packages in the build-dependency chains of Kubuntu package management tools
[06:35] <Kamion> zyga: yes. seeds aren't generated, they're written
[06:35] <zyga> Kamion: great, thank you :)
[06:36] <wasabi_> jbailey, ping
[06:36] <pitti> Kamion: tdbtools is mentioned in the report; it's poorly (i. e. not at all) documented
[06:36] <\sh> doko: it's not the truth...sip4-qt3 produces python2.3-sip-dev which is not the default anymore..now it's python2.4-sip4-dev
[06:37] <doko> yes, did see that too late
[06:37] <pitti> Kamion: security-wise it is ok, though
[06:38] <sabdfl> mdz: can you prepare to freeze bugzilla, and redirect people to malone?
[06:38] <\sh> hmm...who can I nerve with some sync requests? I don't know if elmo is back and I need at least for one package some more time to test it community wise...
[06:38] <Kamion> pitti: I'll demote tdb-tools
[06:38] <bddebian> OK, I give up xprint is a piece of crap
[06:39] <Kamion> \sh: elmo is back
[06:39] <\sh> Kamion: ok...so I'll write emails ;)
[06:40] <Kamion> sabdfl: I asked on #launchpad, but didn't get a clear answer. What are the provisions for making people the owners of packages in Launchpad (and thus Malone), without having to make them the owner of the whole product (in most cases they won't be upstream, may not be the Debian maintainer, etc.)?
[06:40] <sabdfl> Kamion: owner?
[06:40] <Diziet> firefox on davis tries to build the i386 asm versions of various stuff because config.guess says ppc64 which falls off the bottom of a switch-a-like in mozilla's makefiles ...
[06:40] <Kamion> default assignee for bugs, in this case
[06:41] <sabdfl> in general, the "owner" is now being rebranded "registrant" - it's the person who first told us about a product, or distro, etc
[06:41] <sabdfl> separately we'll have things like maintainership
[06:41] <Kamion> ok, I'm not sure of the appropriate terminology
[06:41] <sabdfl> Kamion: malone doesn't do that right now, it could do
[06:41] <Kamion> but per-distro maintainership
[06:41] <sabdfl> please discuss requirements with bradb
[06:41] <Kamion> that seems somewhat essential
[06:42] <tseng>  the motu has asked him about it many times
[06:42] <tseng> and its never made it to his working list it seems
[06:42] <sabdfl> i know we have spec'd package subscriptions
[06:42] <sabdfl> default assignee is a good idea
[06:42] <doko> Diziet: did you start the chroot using linux32 ?
[06:43] <Diziet> It's not my chroot.  davis, in the colo.
[06:43] <doko> Diziet: but _you_ call dchroot ...
[06:43] <Diziet> I can fudge it up for what I want to do now but it's a bit lame really.
[06:44] <fabbione> Diziet: linux32 
[06:44] <doko> should be linux32 dchroot ...
[06:44] <Diziet> OIC.  I still think it's lame but I wasn't blaming the chroot/abi machinery.
[06:44] <Diziet> I was blaming Mozilla.  But linux32 is a nicer fudge.
[06:45] <Kamion> sabdfl: ok, I'll mail this conversation to him with comments
[06:45] <fabbione> Diziet: did you build that test binary on amd64?
[06:45] <Diziet> Really, there ought to be a standard way in autoconf to get any configure script to use system's config.guess which would just be a small script which would always print a fixed string.
[06:45] <Diziet> fabb: I thought you said ppc ?
[06:45] <fabbione> nope..
[06:45] <Diziet> Oops.
[06:46] <Diziet> Well, I'll think of it as a learning experience.
[06:46] <fabbione> the past i gave to you was for general RISC processors
[06:46] <fabbione> :)
[06:46] <jdub> hrrrm
[06:46] <fabbione> but the bug might be the same i am experiencing here
[06:46] <Diziet> I don't think I have an account on an amd64 in the colo.
[06:46] <Diziet> Yes, it probably is.
[06:46] <fabbione> Diziet: concordia
[06:46] <jdub> if you hibernate after upgrading a kernel
[06:46] <SteveA> mjg59: hello?
[06:46] <jdub> your hibernate image is dumped without any warning :(
[06:46] <fabbione> Diziet: you should have an account there
[06:46] <jdub> perhaps we should try and boot the old kernel in that case? (dapper)
[06:47] <Diziet> fabb: Yep.
[06:47] <fabbione> Diziet: my ppc will arrive while we will be at UBZ :(
[06:47] <fabbione> exactly the day after i will leave dk
[06:47] <Diziet> How convenient.
[06:48] <jbailey> wasabi_: pong
[06:48] <fabbione> Diziet: i am sort of unhappy.. i was really looking forward to take it with me at UBZ
[06:48] <fabbione> but well.. that's the delivery time
[06:48] <Diziet> Oh, a laptop.
[06:49] <fabbione> i could have get it faster i was going to give up on the RAM
[06:49] <wasabi_> jbailey, umount -l doesn't seem to work in initramfs
[06:49] <mdz> Kamion: if we're supporting the source packages for tdb and tagcoll anyway, we may as well have the tools in main
[06:49] <wasabi_> different umount?
[06:49] <zyga> is there any # for translators?
[06:49] <fabbione> but i can't be bothered to go and get it later
[06:49] <jbailey> wasabi_: Right, it's busybox's mount and umount
[06:49] <wasabi_> Umm. Okay, Well, I'm realizing that I should not umount it.
[06:49] <wasabi_> I have to some how MOVE the mount into the real root.
[06:49] <Kamion> mdz: ok for tagcoll. pitti said in the inclusion report "I don't like to see tdb-tools in main."
[06:49] <jbailey> wasabi_: Right. =)
[06:49] <wasabi_> How the heck can I do that?
[06:50] <jbailey> wasabi_: Look at the bottom of /init to see how I move /dev
[06:50] <mdz> Kamion: why?
[06:50] <mdz> sabdfl: can we hold off on migrating to Malone until after the 5.10 release?
[06:50] <Kamion> mdz: lack of documentation apparently
[06:51] <wasabi_> Okay. I see that after root is mounted, it makes /dev/.static/dev
[06:51] <wasabi_> mount -o move?!?!
[06:51] <wasabi_> Interesting.
[06:51] <wasabi_> Never seen that before.
[06:51] <mdz> jdub: booting the old kernel is impossible in the common case of having upgraded to an ABI-compatible version
[06:51] <mdz> jdub: rather, we should refuse to hibernate when the kernel has been upgraded but not booted yet
[06:51] <mdz> jdub: there's a bug in bugzilla somewhere
[06:51] <wasabi_> I suspect I want to do this in init-bottom? I want to move /tmp/flash to ${rootmnt}/boot
[06:51] <zyga> oh, okay then
[06:52] <jbailey> wasabi_: Sounds right.
[06:53] <wasabi_> thx once again
[06:53] <jbailey> Anytime, my friend.
[06:54] <wasabi_> Cool. I get it.
[06:55] <wasabi_> make /boot/.static/boot, bind the original /boot to it, move the /tmp/flash system in place of the real /boot
[06:55] <Kamion> mdz: you seem sceptical, so I've added tdb-tools to the Kubuntu supported seed
[06:55] <doko> wasabi_: forwarded you an eclipse mail
[06:56] <mdz> Kamion: lack of documentation has not stopped us before ;-)
[06:56] <Kamion> heh
[06:57] <Kamion> mdz: go ahead and run cron.sync now; it probably won't quite be complete, but close
[06:57] <Kamion> well, s/now/after this cron.daily/ probably
[06:57] <wasabi_> jbailey, run-init seems to complain if I create any new directories in the initramfs
[06:58] <wasabi_> should I actually be doing /dev/.static/boot or something?
[06:58] <zyga> who manages the wiki page?
[06:58] <Kamion> zyga: what wiki page?
[06:58] <zyga> wiki engine
[06:58] <zyga> 0 rezultatw z liczby 5074 stron. (<ul> <li style="list-style-type:none">0.56 sekund. </li> </ul>)
[06:59] <Kamion> hno73 I believe
[06:59] <zyga> that means 0 results from 5074 page
[06:59] <Kamion> (Henrik Omma)
[06:59] <zyga> that's not source, I see HTML on the page
[06:59] <zyga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=popularity+contest&titlesearch=Tytu%C5%82y
[06:59] <zyga> hno73: ping :)
[07:00] <jbailey> wasabi_: Got a specific error message for me? =)
[07:01] <hno73> zyga: hi :)
[07:01] <zyga> hno73: check above :)
[07:02] <zyga> hno73: separate issue: clicking 'assign category to this page' combo box displays ["CategoryMOTU"] 
[07:03] <zyga> hno73: wiki used polish locale
[07:03] <wasabi_> one sec
[07:03] <doko> mdz: syncing the ooo2-helpcontent2 "source" now, will finish in two hours. I'm waiting with the ooo2 upload for a few hours, until fabbione tells me the sparc results.
[07:04] <wasabi_> doko, odd. Working fine for me. Need more info.
[07:04] <fabbione> doko: it's munging as fast as it can :)
[07:04] <wasabi_> There a bug report?
[07:05] <doko> wasabi_: there's none, I just got the mail
[07:06] <doko> wasabi_: could you test 3.1.1 packages?
[07:06] <wasabi_> Yes, in a bit.
[07:06] <wasabi_> IT BOOTED
[07:06] <wasabi_> MY FLASH BOOTED
[07:06] <mdz> doko: please do not wait for sparc
[07:06] <jbailey> \o/
[07:06] <wasabi_> Hahah.
[07:06] <wasabi_> That kicks freaking ass.
[07:07] <wasabi_> It's up, waiting for login.
[07:07] <mdz> doko: this is already very last-minute
[07:07] <doko> mdz: ok
[07:07] <wasabi_> Okay, next step is I need to get loading/saving configuartion to work.
[07:07] <mdz> doko: I'm not even sure we should do it, since we can't fit it on the CD anyway
[07:07] <wasabi_> My idea is to have a "write" script, like a cisco.
[07:07] <mdz> unless...
[07:07] <wasabi_> Which saves specific modifications to the flash.
[07:07] <wasabi_> like specific files in /etc, etc, and then reloads them at boot.
[07:08] <wasabi_> Oh and I have to figure out how to do a unionfs too. =(
[07:08] <mdz> sabdfl: around?
[07:08] <fabbione> doko: please upload with that patch.. 
[07:08] <tseng> wasabi_: you might take a look at openwrt
[07:08] <fabbione> doko: i think that was the only point were asm love was required
[07:08] <tseng> wasabi_: they have a readonly flash partition, and then an overlay for changed configs
[07:09] <doko> fabbione: sure, I did include it, it's a sparc specific file, which gets patched
[07:09] <dholbach> re
[07:09] <fabbione> doko: exactly..
[07:09] <doko> fabbione: mention Dave in the changelog?
[07:09] <fabbione> doko: it's building binfilters now..
[07:09] <wasabi_> tseng, that's good too. I need to learn how to do overlays right.
[07:09] <fabbione> doko: yes please.. David Miller..
[07:10] <fabbione> doko: are you aware of any other portion of code that are arch specific like that one?
[07:10] <doko> AFAIK the uno bridge is the only one
[07:11] <fabbione> doko: ok.. than we are good to go imho
[07:11] <fabbione> don't wait for me to build..
[07:11] <fabbione> just upload
[07:12] <doko> fabbione: yes, have only 35kB/s upstream and the help.orig is 350MB ...
[07:12] <fabbione> doko: doh
[07:13] <fabbione> that will take at least 4 hours
[07:14] <wasabi_> So, overlay file systems. What's the recommended software for this? I've heard of unionfs, but heard it's unstable.
[07:14] <mdz> doko: assuming the .orig is pristine, you should be able to download to chinstrap and upload from there
[07:15] <\sh> wasabi_: check openwrt or dd-wrt
[07:16] <doko> mdz: no, not the prebuilt help content, which I did build on my server.
[07:17] <wasabi_> Archives down or is it just me?
[07:18] <mdz> wasabi_: so you're going to implement buntu then?
[07:18] <wasabi_> mdz, well, not exactly. I'm implementing a simple initramfs extension to boot off a flash with a stored ro file system.
[07:19] <wasabi_> Two bash scripts, done in about 50 lines each, seem to have completed it. ;0
[07:19] <mdz> wasabi_: that's a big part of it
[07:19] <mdz> plus the saving stuff
[07:19] <fabbione> Diziet: firefox seems much more stable.. any hope to get to test mozilla-browser with the same CFLAGS?
[07:19] <fabbione> (at least it didn't crash yet)
[07:20] <mdz> wasabi_: once you have copy-on-write and a way to save the delta back to flash, the hard bits are done
[07:20] <mdz> the rest is just package selection
[07:21] <mdz> oh, and the installer
[07:21] <wasabi_> yeah.
[07:23] <elmo> bddebian: WTF, dude?
[07:23] <bddebian> elmo: Now what did I do?
[07:23] <elmo> why the hell are you uploading stuff instead of waiting for syncs?
[07:23] <bddebian> elmo: With what?
[07:23] <elmo> I SPECIFICALLY asked you not to do that
[07:24] <elmo> libchipcard2
[07:24] <bddebian> I asked for a sync and Kamion did it
[07:25] <elmo> ok, so why are you emailing me stuff and then not telling me it's done?
[07:25] <bddebian> elmo: The e-mail went out before Kamion did it for me and you are right, I meant to e-mail you that he did it and I did not.  My apologies.
[07:25] <\sh> elmo: forget my wesnoth request...didn't know that Lathiat was requesting it, too :(
[07:26] <Lathiat> \sh: heh
[07:26] <wasabi_> mdz, copy-on-write is my next step. It shouldn't be that hard once I figure out what software to use.
[07:26] <\sh> Lathiat: u should say a word :)
[07:26] <elmo> bddebian: are any of the other emails superseded?
[07:27] <bddebian> elmo: As far as I can recall, just the ones in that one big e-mail.  aqbanking, gnucash, libchipcar2, etc.
[07:28] <Lathiat> \sh: we discussed it in #ubuntu-motu ;p
[07:28] <fabbione> Diziet: ?
[07:29] <\sh> Lathiat: grmpf...I didn't see that..so I requested it as well...ok no harm ;)
[07:29] <Lathiat> perhaps is hould write a sync tracker :)
[07:31] <\sh> Lathiat: a good thing for revu2 ;)
[07:31] <\sh> Lathiat: putting everything on a list, and at the end of the week a mail will be send to elmo :)
[07:31] <siretart> sync and morgue tracker are on my personal todo list
[07:32] <\sh> siretart: rock
[07:32] <Lathiat> btw if something has been thrown out of debian
[07:32] <Lathiat> shoudl we throw it out too?
[07:32] <elmo> guys don't expend too much energy on it - the manual sync process is a result of us  using katie
[07:32] <elmo> it'll go away eventually when we move to LP
[07:32] <Lathiat> e.g. howl
[07:33] <Lathiat> altho we have one program depending on howl, theres code to use avahi in cvs 
[07:33] <\sh> elmo: so LP will have a "please sync" trigger button? 
[07:33] <siretart> elmo: do you have a timeframe for that?
[07:34] <\sh> while gcl is test-compiling, I could grab some beer for tonight...yeah good idea
[07:38] <moyogo> hi, i was wondering if there could be some font evaluation program
[07:38] <moyogo> especially for opentype features
[07:39] <moyogo> right now pretty much all of the fonts and all the programs don't have a decent opentype/unicode support
[07:39] <moyogo> some fonts just have lots of glyphs, without the proper definitions
[07:40] <moyogo> at least in latin script
[07:42] <elmo> siretart: no
[07:48] <sivang> Mithrandir: these are the performance samples I did , with GUI sessions, and without : http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/breezy-performance/
[07:57] <mvo> infinity: does the patch for #17116 looks sane to you?
[08:01] <Riddell> Znarl, elmo: how are the kubuntu CDs?
[08:02] <Znarl> Riddell : Think it's solved.  Just confirming now.
[08:03] <Riddell> Znarl: what was the problem?
[08:04] <Znarl> Riddell : We had to restart the seeding process.
[08:07] <infinity> mvo : type isn't POSIX, is it?  Otherwise, the logic looks sane.  Is it tested?
[08:09] <doko> mdz: OOo2 uploaded, hoary->breezy upgrade didn't show any problems. will upload the help in about three hours, but these cannot be uses without the updated OOo2 anyway
[08:10] <infinity> mvo : Also, you may want to use "fgconsole 2>/dev/null", since it vomits on stderr if it can't figure out our current console.
[08:10] <mdz> doko: accepted
[08:10] <mvo> infinity: tested it with normal setup, multi-head, without gdm, with gdm, with timeout and without
[08:11] <mvo> infinity: yeah, good point (the redirect)
[08:11] <infinity> mvo : Cool, then it has my seal of approval, just needs mdz's.
[08:11] <infinity> mvo : The whole thing is a pretty hideous hack that needs to be rethought, but it's good enough for now, I think.
[08:12] <mvo> infinity: oh yes! right after the release we need to implement a post-run hook for usplash, that is a much better way to handle this IMHO
[08:13] <infinity> Well, we need to know if it was running in the first place, and one what VC, etc.  Having it drop something in the (pivoted) root filesystem that we clean up in the init script might work.  I dunno.  I've not thought about it much beyond "the current solution is scary wrong"
[08:14] <infinity> mvo : I think it's good enough for release, though (and subsequent inclusion in the Hideous Hacks BoF)
[08:16] <mvo> infinity: my current idea is to have something like /etc/usplash/postrun that is a script that is run by usplash when is exists. we register the console-screen.sh stuff in it then
[08:16] <infinity> mvo : Speaking of hooks, remind me at UBZ to corner you and discuss the "pre-upgrade" hooks ideas for synaptic/update-manager.
[08:16] <mvo> infinity: right
[08:17] <opi> g;day
[08:17] <mvo> ping carlos 
[08:17] <infinity> mvo : Yeah, that would work.  Except in the odd case usplash crashes, but I suppose designing for segfaults is a pessimistic view.
[08:17] <mvo> infinity: b, it won't crash
[08:18] <infinity> Hasn't done so for me so far, but give it time. :)
[08:18] <mvo> haha
[08:19] <infinity> "All software has bugs, this goes double for anything with the name 'Adam Conrad' in the changelog."
[08:19] <infinity> A certain truth, I'm sure of it.
[08:19] <carlos> mvo, pong
[08:20] <\sh> I thought I heard bddebian, but I read infinity ;)
[08:20] <mvo> carlos: is there a way to tell if the pot file of gksu in rosetta is up-to-date? it seems to lack a string
[08:20] <mvo> carlos: "Please enter your password\n to run %s"
[08:21] <mvo> carlos: it is part of the pot file that is generated with intltool-update -p 
[08:21] <mvo> infinity: heh :) don't forget that my name is in the changelog as well, that will certainly make things worse
[08:21] <infinity> \sh : I'm not being terribly self-deprecating, just realistic.  Software work (especially on a tight schedule) is a very "two steps forward; one step back" affair.
[08:22] <carlos> mvo, I can give you the version of the imported .pot file, is that enough?
[08:22] <mvo> carlos: yes, that's a good start
[08:23] <mvo> carlos: I wonder if it might be easier to just upload a new pot by hand for now to make sure the string is in
[08:23] <mvo> carlos: it's aobut the only string the users sees from gksu :)
[08:23] <carlos> mvo, I or Jordi can do that, you don't have the rights
[08:24] <bddebian> \sh: What did I do now?? :-)
[08:25] <blueyed> I've posted a patch which fixes some issues with pppoeconf. I think it's important to get it into breezy: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10080 - would be nice if someone could at least re-open it. It's a "popular" bug and still not finally fixed!
[08:26] <mvo> carlos: right, do you want me to send it to you? or will you do a "apt-get source gksu; cd gksu-1.3.0; intltool-update -p" yourself?
[08:26] <jordi> mvo: I was going to do your request right now
[08:26] <carlos> mvo, just a second...
[08:26] <jordi> the synaptic one, is this a new one?
[08:27] <mvo> jordi: not that I know of ...
[08:27] <jordi> carlos: should I handle it?
[08:27] <mvo> jordi: I splited the po dirs into "po and po-manual" recently (like 3 weeks ago). not sure if you mean this
[08:28] <mvo> jordi, carlos: please let me know when a new template is up so that I can translate the missing strings
[08:29] <carlos> mvo, POT-Creation-Date: 2005-06-18 14:57-0300
[08:29] <carlos> that's the one imported
[08:29] <carlos> jordi, if you could, yes, please
[08:29] <infinity> blueyed : I mean to review your patch tomorrow and talk to the release managers about it.
[08:30] <blueyed> Thank you infinity!
[08:30] <jordi> carlos: ok. Do we have all the required filesi n rosetta@?
[08:31] <mvo> carlos: will rosetta import changed pot files automatically in the future?
[08:32] <carlos> mvo, we do that now, what do you mean?
[08:32] <carlos> jordi, we should...
[08:32] <jordi> ok
[08:33] <mvo> carlos: hm, I wonder why the string is missing (or am I just overlooking something)?
[08:34] <carlos> mvo, If it's missing it's because a bug not because we are not syncing
[08:35] <mvo> carlos: ok, that's what I wanted to know, thanks. 
[08:40] <sivang> can anybodyu tell me how does OO finds its font is uses? (trying to figure out #17175)
[08:40] <mdz> carlos: how go the langpacks?
[08:41] <jordi> mvo: so this is for the breezy template, right?
[08:43] <carlos> mdz, breezy langpacks seem to look ok, just missing ones that we are reviewing / fixing every day and does not block the deployment of the language pack
[08:44] <carlos> mdz, hoary ones seems that need some reimports now that we solved many bugs since hoary release
[08:44] <mvo> jordi: yes
[08:44] <doko> sivang: locate show VCL.xcu
[08:44] <doko> sivang: locate VCL.xcu
[08:45] <sivang> doko: k, and so a pakcage that installs font for OO should ship a file like this to let OO know about its fonts?
[08:46] <doko> sivang: no, that's a priority list. OO uses fontconfig
[08:46] <mvo> mdz: does the fix for #17116 looks ok to you?
[08:46] <sivang> doko: k, thanks
[08:47] <doko> so something did change with Diziet's changes, which you have to dig out. have fun :-(
[08:47] <sivang> doko: I have this file both in my home and on /usr/share/
[08:47] <fabbione> doko: oo2 started building right now...
[08:47] <doko> yes, that's ok, edit the system file
[08:47] <fabbione> doko: let's hope for the best or it will be a royal waste of CPU time ;)
[08:48] <doko> fabbione: on sparc, the second time?
[08:48] <fabbione> doko: from ubuntu4...
[08:48] <doko>  ahh, ok
[08:48] <fabbione> doko: i did stop the other.. since this was the last upload anyway
[08:48] <sivang> doko: k
[08:48] <fabbione> pointless to let it go twice..
[08:48] <fabbione> doko: do you have any idea how much space it takes to build it?
[08:49] <fabbione> like 4? 5? 6 GB?
[08:49] <mdz> mvo: is that while pidof usplash .... for paranoia, or have we seen cases where it fails to exit?
[08:49] <mvo> mdz: pure paranoia
[08:50] <mdz> mvo: looks good
[08:51] <mdz> mvo: I think the /proc/cmdline check is superfluous, but harmless
[08:51] <sivang> doko: can fonts be used even if they do not appear in that file ?
[08:51] <doko> fabbione: about 3GB ccache
[08:51] <doko> sivang: yes
[08:51] <mvo> mdz: additional paranoia ...
[08:51] <mdz> mvo: you tested this with gdm disabled and it does the right thing?
[08:52] <sivang> doko: I see, probably when queried from fontconfig ?
[08:52] <mdz> mvo: well, in that case, the paranoia is backwards. :-)  if we have doubt, we should go ahead and execute the conditional
[08:52] <doko> fabbione: debian: 3,5GB, ooo-build: 8,5GB
[08:52] <mdz> because it's harmless if usplash isn't actually running
[08:52] <mvo> mdz: yes, I added a sleep to ntpdate to trigger a timeout
[08:53] <doko> sivang: the file describes priorities/choices. Look in the font selector, you'll see that all fonts are displayed, which are available from fontconfig
[08:54] <fabbione> doko: ccache is not a problem, but i don't understand what you mean by debian: 3,5GB, ooo-build: 8,5GB ?
[08:54] <fabbione> so i need a total of 12GB to build?
[08:54] <doko> fabbione: the whole unpacked tree is about 12GB at the end, yes
[08:54] <mvo> mdz: it's the chvt 1 scares me and that's why I don't want to be extra careful
[08:54] <doko> + the space for the debs
[08:55] <fabbione> shit
[08:55] <fabbione> ops
[08:55] <fabbione> sorry
[08:55] <sivang> doko: font selector in fontconfig?
[08:55] <mvo> s/don't//
[08:55] <doko> sivang: in OOo
[08:55] <mdz> mvo: there seem to be more changes in your lpi upload than in the changelog
[08:56] <mvo> mdz: yes, my bad. some compiler warnings are fixed as well 
[08:56] <mdz> mvo: e.g., x-www-browser
[08:57] <mvo> mdz: that one was already in, I just moved it from debian/patches into my baz tree
[08:57] <mdz> oh, I see
[08:58] <sivang> mdz: that helped us drop dependency on the pakcage holding gnome-open , enable the future use by other desktops.
[08:58] <elmo> doko: why is this oo2-helpcontent stuff so damn big?
[08:59] <mdz> elmo: let me guess...it's another copy of the oo.o2 source
[08:59] <doko> mdz: nah, not that easy ;)
[08:59] <doko> elmo: 12MB per language
[08:59] <elmo> mdz: it's 2 x the size of the oo.o2 source
[08:59] <doko> prebuilt
[08:59] <mdz> SWEET
[08:59] <mdz> that's another source CD right there
[08:59] <jsgotangco> ugghh
[09:00] <doko> elmo: don't exxagerate!
[09:00] <elmo> 185M    /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/ftp/pool/main/o/openoffice.org2/openoffice.org2_1.9.129.orig.tar.gz
[09:00] <fabbione> mdz: if you want i can upload oscar :) it's another 340MB of source ;)
[09:00] <elmo> 338M    openoffice.org2-helpcontent_1.9.129.orig.tar.gz
[09:00] <elmo> doko: ... ?
[09:01] <doko> elmo: 2*185=370
[09:01] <elmo> dude, please
[09:01] <doko> we cannot build it from source, because it requires non-free jars
[09:02] <elmo> 340, 370.  with oo2, what's 30Mb between friends?
[09:02] <doko> so, the "source" package contains the prebuilt help, which is not the preferred format for editing, but good enough for breezy
[09:02] <doko> elmo: 30MB is gcc ;)
[09:06] <mdz> doko: non-free jars?  I thought the issue was that our JDK wasn't up to it yet
[09:09] <jordi> mvo: hey
[09:09] <jordi> mvo: I have no file for gksu in my email
[09:09] <jordi> I do have a request for synaptic
[09:13] <doko> mdz: iff I build the helpcontent from source, I'll have to use old versions of jaxp and xt, which have a non-free license. So we did have the choice of a third copy of source in multiverse, and the binaries not in main, or have the prebuilt binaries put in the source and in main, arguing that it's not code, but documentation, which doesn't come in the preferred format for editing
[09:14] <sivang> doko: weird, there a conf.d conffile , also a fonts.dir for X11 , still no culmus for oo
[09:15] <mvo> jordi: oh, sorry. I asked before if I should send a file or if it easier for you to do "apt-get source gksu; cd gksu-1.3.0/po;intltool-update -p" 
[09:15] <doko> sivang: two weeks ago it did work. maybe try an old live-cd? or old fontconfig packages?
[09:15] <sivang> doko: where I can fetch an old package?
[09:16] <sivang> oh nice, firefox crashed for me on p.d.o
[09:17] <doko> from an old cd. but there are only three cd's from the past ...
[09:17] <jordi> mvo: can you mail me a quick file?
[09:17] <jordi> it's only the pot, not the translations, rihht'
[09:17] <sivang> doko: I can take a hoary package, I have a CD
[09:18] <doko> sivang: what does this help?
[09:18] <mvo> jordi: sure
[09:18] <sivang> doko: nothing, sorry
[09:19] <mvo> jordi: send
[09:21] <jordi> mvo: thanks dude
[09:21] <jordi> mvo: will do synaptic as well
[09:21] <mvo> jordi: thanks! 
[09:27] <jordi> ah, here!
[09:35] <janimo> elmo, I copy pasted the xubuntu-artwork copyright from kubuntu-default-settings that's why it's not CC-...
[09:35] <janimo> I now see that edubuntu's is what you say
[09:39] <jordi> mvo: gksu done, Catalan updated :=
[09:40] <seb128> jordi, mvo: what about gksu?
[09:40] <jordi> seb128: rosetta template update
[09:41] <seb128> k
[09:41] <jordi> don't wrory man :)
[09:42] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/synaptic
[09:42] <jordi> I wonder how much sense this makes
[09:42] <jordi> what does it mean it's not published in breezy?
[09:43] <mvo> jordi: thanks
[09:43] <jordi> mvo: synaptic should be done
[09:45] <mvo> jordi: cool, thanks
[09:57] <mvo> ping smurf 
[09:58] <mvo> smurf: could you please add me to the german translators team?
[10:01] <sivang> doko: is there anything you could suggest to check ? I don't see anything else I can check. and none of the culmus fonts appear on the OOo font selectors
[10:03] <fabbione> good night guys
[10:03] <mdz> night fabbione
[10:04] <fabbione> night mdz
[10:12] <HiddenWolf> mvo, ping
[10:12] <mvo> HiddenWolf: pong
[10:12] <HiddenWolf> mvo, just dist-upgraded, and I get an empty post-update information notice.
[10:15] <mvo> HiddenWolf: anything usefull in your ~/.xsession-errors ?
[10:15] <hno73> Kamion: Slim AMD64 tarball: http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/ubuntu-AMD/current/
[10:16] <HiddenWolf> mvo, empty file
[10:17] <mvo> HiddenWolf: empty? that's unusal. 
[10:18] <HiddenWolf> mvo, nm, typo. :$
[10:18] <mvo> HiddenWolf: can you send the file to me by mail?
[10:18] <hno73> Riddell: Does Kubuntu Live need a slimmed down WinFOSS tarball for AMD64 too? The current one is about 92MB (compressed)
[10:18] <HiddenWolf> mvo, what's the addy?
[10:18] <mvo> HiddenWolf: and test if http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/update-notifier/ helps?
[10:18] <mvo> HiddenWolf: michael.vogt at ubuntu.com
[10:19] <mvo> HiddenWolf: there is a 0.40.13 in there
[10:20] <HiddenWolf> mvo, sent
[10:20] <mvo> HiddenWolf: thanks
[10:22] <xTina> Hm. Who decided on putting that bearded face into the password dialog for xscreensaver?!?
[10:24] <HiddenWolf> mvo, installed the new version, but that froze update-notifier.
[10:25] <Riddell> hno73: breezy live amd64 CD is only 619M
[10:25] <Riddell> Znarl: kubuntu CDs don't seem to be mirrored yet
[10:26] <hno73> Riddell: but is that using an old tarball?
[10:26] <Znarl> Riddell : Noticed another problem.  Fixing it now.
[10:27] <Riddell> hno73: I'm not sure
[10:27] <hno73> Riddell: http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/kubuntu/current/ is the new URL
[10:28] <hno73> http://www.theopencd.org/kubuntu/amd64/latest/ is the old
[10:28] <hno73> 92 vs 35 MB
[10:30] <segfault> who handles people.ubuntu.com?
[10:35] <jdub> mdz: oh, good point (re: same-abi kernel)
[10:49] <seb128> 'night mvo
[10:49] <mdke> segfault, it depends on the person afaik
[10:50] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok, back online!
[10:51] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Cool.  I think I guess why LVM didn't fire for you, we need to make sure the "root" variable is set from your shell
[10:53] <tepsipakki> ROOT='/dev/hda2'
[10:54] <janimo> jdub, I have an esound question
[10:55] <janimo> I want to start it as part of default xfce session
[10:55] <janimo> is it ok to just put it in there with -nobeeps and it will have the same params as in gnome?
[10:57] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Right, now do export ROOT
[10:57] <jbailey> tepsipakki: That way it's visible to the subshell, and run /scripts/local-top/lvm
[10:59] <tepsipakki> jbailey: on the shell if I say 'export' it lists all those variables, including "export ROOT='/dev/hda2'"
[11:00] <tepsipakki> jbailey: is "vg=${ROOT#/dev/mapper/}" right?
[11:00] <tepsipakki> in lvm
[11:01] <jbailey> Mmm, hold on a sec.
[11:01] <jbailey> Your root is on a regular drive, but your swap is on lvm?
[11:01] <tepsipakki> yes
[11:01] <jbailey> Oh.
[11:01] <jbailey> That won't work for resuming in breezy, sorry.
[11:01] <tepsipakki> it has worked, though
[11:01] <tepsipakki> but, ok
[11:02] <jbailey> Right now we only activate the volume group that the root volume is on.
[11:02] <jbailey> It would be reasonable to check the RESUME partition and do it for that one too.
[11:03] <jbailey> tepsipakki: For your local setup, you could just hacka in a "vgchange -ay" somewhere.
[11:04] <jbailey> tepsipakki: But we can't do that generally, because in a multipath case, some of the drives may not be visible until the network stack is up.
[11:04] <jbailey> (Or other bus drivers not needed for booting)
[11:07] <tepsipakki> jbailey: ok, I might just reinstall this some time and add root to the vg
[11:07] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Are you going to be tracking dapper as it goes?
[11:07] <tepsipakki> definately
[11:08] <jbailey> If you could file a bug in bugzilla "initramfs-tools should also activate the lvm VG for the RESUME partition"
[11:08] <jbailey> Then I'll probably nail that one fairly quickly after.
[11:09] <tepsipakki> will do, and I won't reinstall it before it is done ;)
[11:09] <jbailey> Great ;)  Always nice if the submitter can test to see if it's fixed. =)
[11:09] <tepsipakki> of course then there's no need..
[11:09] <tepsipakki> although my root is a bit too small
[11:12] <sivang> Diziet: around?
[11:14] <tepsipakki> jbailey: might I just rename the bug that I created yesterday?
[11:19] <jbailey> tepsipakki: That'll work too. =)
[11:27] <mdz> doko: the help built, but the packages seem to be empty
[11:29] <tepsipakki> jbailey: done
[11:29] <jbailey> tepsipakki: Cool, thanks
[11:42] <mdz> doko: never mind, I've fixed it
[11:57] <doko> mdz: just came home. thanks, thinko. the control file isn't regenerated