/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/10/13/#ubuntu-doc.txt

jbaileyIt seems like the gnome docbook translator doesn't like legalnotice as a toplevel notice?12:04
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rob^jbailey, yes I noticed that too01:03
jbaileyI'm trying to figure out if it should actually be a toplevel01:04
jbaileyOr if it should be wrapped in an appendix tag.01:05
rob^if it works then sure, why not?01:05
jbaileyWell, trying for correctness, too. =)01:22
ajmitch__hi01:25
rob^I hate how yelp just decides to do its own thing like that01:30
jbaileyHeya Andrew01:36
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jsgotangcorob^: wouter has a valid point on "Add Applications"04:15
rob^well, I did bring it up ages ago..04:40
rob^maybe having a string freeze before the final product is released is a bad thing04:43
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jbaileyI think the idea is that string freeze is supposed to be after feature freeze to allow for that.05:19
jbaileyWhat we need is to make sure that all specs  include a documentation component.05:20
rob^but thats not whats happening05:25
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mdkemorning10:25
rob^hi mdke 10:26
MadpilotPPChi all10:27
rob^my laptop is having a hard time with breezy10:27
rob^debian is ok though10:28
rob^I'll bbs once its soughted out10:28
rob^:)10:28
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MadpilotPPCblast... people duplicating pages that already exist is *such* a waste of effort...10:45
MadpilotPPCthis --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- has links to pages about various modems/linmodems10:45
=== mdke nods
MadpilotPPCwhich is good - except that SteveMyers has created new pages and new info for these modems, when there is already at least some information elsewhere in the wiki10:46
mdkebitchslap em!10:46
MadpilotPPCabout these modems...10:46
mdkeyeah I made a note on his homepage encouraging him to get in touch with us10:46
MadpilotPPCmdke, heh. I'm sure he means well, but right now he's just making a mess10:47
mdkei don't think he is subscribed to his homepage...10:47
MadpilotPPCI wasn't subscribed to my own homepage when I first created it, either... 10:47
MadpilotPPCI'm going to do a bit of cleanup now, but it's late here10:48
MadpilotPPCat least bumping stuff back up the RecentChanges list will get other ppl looking at it10:48
MadpilotPPChttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=modem&fullsearch=Text10:49
MadpilotPPCbleh... this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto  <-- is a mess too, for different reasons...10:51
mdkeoh well10:52
MadpilotPPCI'm just going to bump a few things up RecentChanges, and leave it10:53
MadpilotPPCI don't even use dailup myself...10:53
MadpilotPPCadded a note about the modem mess here --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- we'll see what happens11:20
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rob__https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpfulHelp   <- not again..03:22
rob^tweak yelp.. oh god03:25
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jsgotangcorob^, ping?04:49
rob^jsgotangco, pong04:49
jsgotangcorob^, who made those bof topics?04:50
rob^which ones?04:50
jsgotangcoDocteamPlansDapper?04:51
rob^that one was me04:51
rob^the rest wasn't04:52
jsgotangcomdz is the one who prioritizes bofs and stuff04:52
jsgotangcono one will discuss it in montreal04:52
rob^well its better then having helpfulhelp on there04:52
rob^we have already been through that one04:52
jsgotangcohelpfulhelp?04:53
jsgotangcohave you ever seen the baz rep on that?04:53
rob^something has to be discussed, I figured I better put something down thats relevent04:53
rob^well, can you really picture what would need to happen for some of the things in helpfulhelp to work?04:54
rob^integrated help for one is impossible04:54
jsgotangcosorry i can't agree on that04:55
rob^to have fully intergrated help, one would have to alter the code for each app, right?04:55
jsgotangcoa rolling release within milestones is the answer04:55
rob^to do it, we would end up with forks of everything04:56
jsgotangcoehh?04:56
rob^I don't think the devels are gonna like us pushing work on em like that either04:56
jsgotangcowhy not?04:57
jsgotangcothe aim of the rolling release is to push docs as early as possible even if its not complete04:57
rob^00:55| rob^ to have fully intergrated help, one would have to alter the code for each app, right?04:57
rob^rolling release is a seperate issue04:57
jsgotangcoim not getting you in the integrated help04:58
jsgotangcoits just yelp/khelpcenter really04:58
rob^its listed as embedded help on that page, also see the diagram04:58
jsgotangcothat's a really old issue that borked a lot of things04:58
jsgotangcowe're not talking about infrastructure here04:59
rob^so whats the point of discussing it again then?04:59
rob^all of the use cases go against it too04:59
jsgotangcothe purpose of a BOF is to study the feasibility05:00
jsgotangconot implement05:00
rob^the problem is that the page is a hacked together version of the old helpfulhelp page by mpt05:00
rob^when he was pushing the issue of changing licences and stuff05:00
jsgotangcobecause its going to be tied up with launchpad that's why05:00
jsgotangcowe're already seeing the beginnings of helpful help in breezy05:01
jsgotangcothe backend is already taking place05:01
rob^I agree that h.u.c, launchpad and rolling releases are a good thing05:02
rob^embedded help etc is not05:02
jsgotangcobecause?05:02
rob^I also think its a bit harsh to say that no one cares about books chapters etc05:03
rob^people do, its just the interface to view them sucks05:03
jsgotangcorob^, because in the first place, we're writing books/articles not help pages05:03
rob^so no one could be bothered finding the info they need05:03
jsgotangcojust look at the docbook syntax05:03
jsgotangcoeven project mallard is rethinking this book/article thing05:04
rob^I know what project mallard is05:04
rob^there isn't much we can do about that until he decides to change yelp or others do it for him05:04
jsgotangcothen again, help != books really05:05
rob^yes, but help != causing more work for devels and forking software either05:05
rob^the main reason I have a problem with some of this is because most of the key players (us) won't be there to discuss this05:06
rob^and I don't want to be lumped with some crap I disagree with05:07
jsgotangcothat's fine and dandy but going against the flow (as i perceive DocteamPlansDapper) won't fix it05:08
rob^I'm not, I'm just pointing out that we need to also keep focused on reality05:08
rob^a good chuck of helpfulhelp has already been discussed and caused a lot of problems within the docteam05:09
=== jsgotangco is into helpful help sorry
rob^what we ended up with was two documents, because although people like to talk the talk most of them couldn't walk the walk when it came to contributing05:10
rob^I even had people trying to tell me how I should be contributing05:11
rob^who wern't contributing themself05:11
jsgotangcowell that's open source buddy not just the docteam experience that05:12
jsgotangcowe can't force people to do things when they ended up with no time doing so05:13
rob^right, but I also don't apoligise for the fact that I stand up to myself05:13
rob^or for myself rather05:13
rob^but that didn't stop others from trying05:13
jsgotangcorob^, just don't jump the gun yet, we don't even have a roadmap for dapper05:19
rob^I'm not, I only just checked out the BOF page before and saw what I saw05:20
jsgotangcoBOFs are just BOFs nothing happens till someone picks it up and successfully implements it05:21
jsgotangco(not to mention if its tagged as a priority)05:21
jsgotangcothe nice thing about this is that everything will be in flux so anything's possible05:24
rob^we will see what happens I guess05:24
jsgotangcoso its actually possible that those existing books will be obsoleted, merged or retained as is05:27
jsgotangcowe'll only know after the roadmap is released05:27
rob^yeah05:28
jsgotangco(besides we can do more than just write) =)05:28
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jsgotangcogood night06:09
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