| jbailey | It seems like the gnome docbook translator doesn't like legalnotice as a toplevel notice? | 12:04 |
|---|---|---|
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| rob^ | jbailey, yes I noticed that too | 01:03 |
| jbailey | I'm trying to figure out if it should actually be a toplevel | 01:04 |
| jbailey | Or if it should be wrapped in an appendix tag. | 01:05 |
| rob^ | if it works then sure, why not? | 01:05 |
| jbailey | Well, trying for correctness, too. =) | 01:22 |
| ajmitch__ | hi | 01:25 |
| rob^ | I hate how yelp just decides to do its own thing like that | 01:30 |
| jbailey | Heya Andrew | 01:36 |
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| jsgotangco | rob^: wouter has a valid point on "Add Applications" | 04:15 |
| rob^ | well, I did bring it up ages ago.. | 04:40 |
| rob^ | maybe having a string freeze before the final product is released is a bad thing | 04:43 |
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| jbailey | I think the idea is that string freeze is supposed to be after feature freeze to allow for that. | 05:19 |
| jbailey | What we need is to make sure that all specs include a documentation component. | 05:20 |
| rob^ | but thats not whats happening | 05:25 |
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| mdke | morning | 10:25 |
| rob^ | hi mdke | 10:26 |
| MadpilotPPC | hi all | 10:27 |
| rob^ | my laptop is having a hard time with breezy | 10:27 |
| rob^ | debian is ok though | 10:28 |
| rob^ | I'll bbs once its soughted out | 10:28 |
| rob^ | :) | 10:28 |
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| MadpilotPPC | blast... people duplicating pages that already exist is *such* a waste of effort... | 10:45 |
| MadpilotPPC | this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- has links to pages about various modems/linmodems | 10:45 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| MadpilotPPC | which is good - except that SteveMyers has created new pages and new info for these modems, when there is already at least some information elsewhere in the wiki | 10:46 |
| mdke | bitchslap em! | 10:46 |
| MadpilotPPC | about these modems... | 10:46 |
| mdke | yeah I made a note on his homepage encouraging him to get in touch with us | 10:46 |
| MadpilotPPC | mdke, heh. I'm sure he means well, but right now he's just making a mess | 10:47 |
| mdke | i don't think he is subscribed to his homepage... | 10:47 |
| MadpilotPPC | I wasn't subscribed to my own homepage when I first created it, either... | 10:47 |
| MadpilotPPC | I'm going to do a bit of cleanup now, but it's late here | 10:48 |
| MadpilotPPC | at least bumping stuff back up the RecentChanges list will get other ppl looking at it | 10:48 |
| MadpilotPPC | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=modem&fullsearch=Text | 10:49 |
| MadpilotPPC | bleh... this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto <-- is a mess too, for different reasons... | 10:51 |
| mdke | oh well | 10:52 |
| MadpilotPPC | I'm just going to bump a few things up RecentChanges, and leave it | 10:53 |
| MadpilotPPC | I don't even use dailup myself... | 10:53 |
| MadpilotPPC | added a note about the modem mess here --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- we'll see what happens | 11:20 |
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| rob__ | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpfulHelp <- not again.. | 03:22 |
| rob^ | tweak yelp.. oh god | 03:25 |
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| jsgotangco | rob^, ping? | 04:49 |
| rob^ | jsgotangco, pong | 04:49 |
| jsgotangco | rob^, who made those bof topics? | 04:50 |
| rob^ | which ones? | 04:50 |
| jsgotangco | DocteamPlansDapper? | 04:51 |
| rob^ | that one was me | 04:51 |
| rob^ | the rest wasn't | 04:52 |
| jsgotangco | mdz is the one who prioritizes bofs and stuff | 04:52 |
| jsgotangco | no one will discuss it in montreal | 04:52 |
| rob^ | well its better then having helpfulhelp on there | 04:52 |
| rob^ | we have already been through that one | 04:52 |
| jsgotangco | helpfulhelp? | 04:53 |
| jsgotangco | have you ever seen the baz rep on that? | 04:53 |
| rob^ | something has to be discussed, I figured I better put something down thats relevent | 04:53 |
| rob^ | well, can you really picture what would need to happen for some of the things in helpfulhelp to work? | 04:54 |
| rob^ | integrated help for one is impossible | 04:54 |
| jsgotangco | sorry i can't agree on that | 04:55 |
| rob^ | to have fully intergrated help, one would have to alter the code for each app, right? | 04:55 |
| jsgotangco | a rolling release within milestones is the answer | 04:55 |
| rob^ | to do it, we would end up with forks of everything | 04:56 |
| jsgotangco | ehh? | 04:56 |
| rob^ | I don't think the devels are gonna like us pushing work on em like that either | 04:56 |
| jsgotangco | why not? | 04:57 |
| jsgotangco | the aim of the rolling release is to push docs as early as possible even if its not complete | 04:57 |
| rob^ | 00:55| rob^ to have fully intergrated help, one would have to alter the code for each app, right? | 04:57 |
| rob^ | rolling release is a seperate issue | 04:57 |
| jsgotangco | im not getting you in the integrated help | 04:58 |
| jsgotangco | its just yelp/khelpcenter really | 04:58 |
| rob^ | its listed as embedded help on that page, also see the diagram | 04:58 |
| jsgotangco | that's a really old issue that borked a lot of things | 04:58 |
| jsgotangco | we're not talking about infrastructure here | 04:59 |
| rob^ | so whats the point of discussing it again then? | 04:59 |
| rob^ | all of the use cases go against it too | 04:59 |
| jsgotangco | the purpose of a BOF is to study the feasibility | 05:00 |
| jsgotangco | not implement | 05:00 |
| rob^ | the problem is that the page is a hacked together version of the old helpfulhelp page by mpt | 05:00 |
| rob^ | when he was pushing the issue of changing licences and stuff | 05:00 |
| jsgotangco | because its going to be tied up with launchpad that's why | 05:00 |
| jsgotangco | we're already seeing the beginnings of helpful help in breezy | 05:01 |
| jsgotangco | the backend is already taking place | 05:01 |
| rob^ | I agree that h.u.c, launchpad and rolling releases are a good thing | 05:02 |
| rob^ | embedded help etc is not | 05:02 |
| jsgotangco | because? | 05:02 |
| rob^ | I also think its a bit harsh to say that no one cares about books chapters etc | 05:03 |
| rob^ | people do, its just the interface to view them sucks | 05:03 |
| jsgotangco | rob^, because in the first place, we're writing books/articles not help pages | 05:03 |
| rob^ | so no one could be bothered finding the info they need | 05:03 |
| jsgotangco | just look at the docbook syntax | 05:03 |
| jsgotangco | even project mallard is rethinking this book/article thing | 05:04 |
| rob^ | I know what project mallard is | 05:04 |
| rob^ | there isn't much we can do about that until he decides to change yelp or others do it for him | 05:04 |
| jsgotangco | then again, help != books really | 05:05 |
| rob^ | yes, but help != causing more work for devels and forking software either | 05:05 |
| rob^ | the main reason I have a problem with some of this is because most of the key players (us) won't be there to discuss this | 05:06 |
| rob^ | and I don't want to be lumped with some crap I disagree with | 05:07 |
| jsgotangco | that's fine and dandy but going against the flow (as i perceive DocteamPlansDapper) won't fix it | 05:08 |
| rob^ | I'm not, I'm just pointing out that we need to also keep focused on reality | 05:08 |
| rob^ | a good chuck of helpfulhelp has already been discussed and caused a lot of problems within the docteam | 05:09 |
| === jsgotangco is into helpful help sorry | ||
| rob^ | what we ended up with was two documents, because although people like to talk the talk most of them couldn't walk the walk when it came to contributing | 05:10 |
| rob^ | I even had people trying to tell me how I should be contributing | 05:11 |
| rob^ | who wern't contributing themself | 05:11 |
| jsgotangco | well that's open source buddy not just the docteam experience that | 05:12 |
| jsgotangco | we can't force people to do things when they ended up with no time doing so | 05:13 |
| rob^ | right, but I also don't apoligise for the fact that I stand up to myself | 05:13 |
| rob^ | or for myself rather | 05:13 |
| rob^ | but that didn't stop others from trying | 05:13 |
| jsgotangco | rob^, just don't jump the gun yet, we don't even have a roadmap for dapper | 05:19 |
| rob^ | I'm not, I only just checked out the BOF page before and saw what I saw | 05:20 |
| jsgotangco | BOFs are just BOFs nothing happens till someone picks it up and successfully implements it | 05:21 |
| jsgotangco | (not to mention if its tagged as a priority) | 05:21 |
| jsgotangco | the nice thing about this is that everything will be in flux so anything's possible | 05:24 |
| rob^ | we will see what happens I guess | 05:24 |
| jsgotangco | so its actually possible that those existing books will be obsoleted, merged or retained as is | 05:27 |
| jsgotangco | we'll only know after the roadmap is released | 05:27 |
| rob^ | yeah | 05:28 |
| jsgotangco | (besides we can do more than just write) =) | 05:28 |
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| jsgotangco | good night | 06:09 |
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