[12:04] It seems like the gnome docbook translator doesn't like legalnotice as a toplevel notice? === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [01:03] jbailey, yes I noticed that too [01:04] I'm trying to figure out if it should actually be a toplevel [01:05] Or if it should be wrapped in an appendix tag. [01:05] if it works then sure, why not? [01:22] Well, trying for correctness, too. =) [01:25] hi [01:30] I hate how yelp just decides to do its own thing like that [01:36] Heya Andrew === jsgotangco [n=jsg@info1-231.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:15] rob^: wouter has a valid point on "Add Applications" [04:40] well, I did bring it up ages ago.. [04:43] maybe having a string freeze before the final product is released is a bad thing === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:19] I think the idea is that string freeze is supposed to be after feature freeze to allow for that. [05:20] What we need is to make sure that all specs include a documentation component. [05:25] but thats not whats happening === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-48-178.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === segfault [i=carlos@prognus.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-48-178.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru_ [n=poningru@n128-227-13-23.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:25] morning [10:26] hi mdke [10:27] hi all [10:27] my laptop is having a hard time with breezy [10:28] debian is ok though [10:28] I'll bbs once its soughted out [10:28] :) === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@bl5-52-154.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:45] blast... people duplicating pages that already exist is *such* a waste of effort... [10:45] this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- has links to pages about various modems/linmodems === mdke nods [10:46] which is good - except that SteveMyers has created new pages and new info for these modems, when there is already at least some information elsewhere in the wiki [10:46] bitchslap em! [10:46] about these modems... [10:46] yeah I made a note on his homepage encouraging him to get in touch with us [10:47] mdke, heh. I'm sure he means well, but right now he's just making a mess [10:47] i don't think he is subscribed to his homepage... [10:47] I wasn't subscribed to my own homepage when I first created it, either... [10:48] I'm going to do a bit of cleanup now, but it's late here [10:48] at least bumping stuff back up the RecentChanges list will get other ppl looking at it [10:49] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=modem&fullsearch=Text [10:51] bleh... this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto <-- is a mess too, for different reasons... [10:52] oh well [10:53] I'm just going to bump a few things up RecentChanges, and leave it [10:53] I don't even use dailup myself... [11:20] added a note about the modem mess here --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- we'll see what happens === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob__ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has left #ubuntu-doc ["ubuntu-doc"] === Hobbsee [n=sarah@CPE-144-136-127-247.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Hobbsee [n=sarah@CPE-144-136-127-247.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Konversation] [03:22] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpfulHelp <- not again.. [03:25] tweak yelp.. oh god === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Karl@ppp210-102.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@info12-72.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:49] rob^, ping? [04:49] jsgotangco, pong [04:50] rob^, who made those bof topics? [04:50] which ones? [04:51] DocteamPlansDapper? [04:51] that one was me [04:52] the rest wasn't [04:52] mdz is the one who prioritizes bofs and stuff [04:52] no one will discuss it in montreal [04:52] well its better then having helpfulhelp on there [04:52] we have already been through that one [04:53] helpfulhelp? [04:53] have you ever seen the baz rep on that? [04:53] something has to be discussed, I figured I better put something down thats relevent [04:54] well, can you really picture what would need to happen for some of the things in helpfulhelp to work? [04:54] integrated help for one is impossible [04:55] sorry i can't agree on that [04:55] to have fully intergrated help, one would have to alter the code for each app, right? [04:55] a rolling release within milestones is the answer [04:56] to do it, we would end up with forks of everything [04:56] ehh? [04:56] I don't think the devels are gonna like us pushing work on em like that either [04:57] why not? [04:57] the aim of the rolling release is to push docs as early as possible even if its not complete [04:57] 00:55| rob^ to have fully intergrated help, one would have to alter the code for each app, right? [04:57] rolling release is a seperate issue [04:58] im not getting you in the integrated help [04:58] its just yelp/khelpcenter really [04:58] its listed as embedded help on that page, also see the diagram [04:58] that's a really old issue that borked a lot of things [04:59] we're not talking about infrastructure here [04:59] so whats the point of discussing it again then? [04:59] all of the use cases go against it too [05:00] the purpose of a BOF is to study the feasibility [05:00] not implement [05:00] the problem is that the page is a hacked together version of the old helpfulhelp page by mpt [05:00] when he was pushing the issue of changing licences and stuff [05:00] because its going to be tied up with launchpad that's why [05:01] we're already seeing the beginnings of helpful help in breezy [05:01] the backend is already taking place [05:02] I agree that h.u.c, launchpad and rolling releases are a good thing [05:02] embedded help etc is not [05:02] because? [05:03] I also think its a bit harsh to say that no one cares about books chapters etc [05:03] people do, its just the interface to view them sucks [05:03] rob^, because in the first place, we're writing books/articles not help pages [05:03] so no one could be bothered finding the info they need [05:03] just look at the docbook syntax [05:04] even project mallard is rethinking this book/article thing [05:04] I know what project mallard is [05:04] there isn't much we can do about that until he decides to change yelp or others do it for him [05:05] then again, help != books really [05:05] yes, but help != causing more work for devels and forking software either [05:06] the main reason I have a problem with some of this is because most of the key players (us) won't be there to discuss this [05:07] and I don't want to be lumped with some crap I disagree with [05:08] that's fine and dandy but going against the flow (as i perceive DocteamPlansDapper) won't fix it [05:08] I'm not, I'm just pointing out that we need to also keep focused on reality [05:09] a good chuck of helpfulhelp has already been discussed and caused a lot of problems within the docteam === jsgotangco is into helpful help sorry [05:10] what we ended up with was two documents, because although people like to talk the talk most of them couldn't walk the walk when it came to contributing [05:11] I even had people trying to tell me how I should be contributing [05:11] who wern't contributing themself [05:12] well that's open source buddy not just the docteam experience that [05:13] we can't force people to do things when they ended up with no time doing so [05:13] right, but I also don't apoligise for the fact that I stand up to myself [05:13] or for myself rather [05:13] but that didn't stop others from trying [05:19] rob^, just don't jump the gun yet, we don't even have a roadmap for dapper [05:20] I'm not, I only just checked out the BOF page before and saw what I saw [05:21] BOFs are just BOFs nothing happens till someone picks it up and successfully implements it [05:21] (not to mention if its tagged as a priority) [05:24] the nice thing about this is that everything will be in flux so anything's possible [05:24] we will see what happens I guess [05:27] so its actually possible that those existing books will be obsoleted, merged or retained as is [05:27] we'll only know after the roadmap is released [05:28] yeah [05:28] (besides we can do more than just write) =) === jsg_ [n=jsg@info12-72.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:09] good night === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === claude [n=claude@198.120.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-doc === macgyver2 [n=eric@pdpc/supporter/student/macgyver2] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === thechitowncubs [n=thechito@c-67-175-52-127.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc