| === n1c0las [n=niklas@nicolas.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === Madpilot [n=yh728@S0106000d88b9f3db.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Madpilot | anyone know about the "Under no circumstances should this page be edited unless" '''authorized.''' and other changes here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum?action=diff | 04:10 |
|---|---|---|
| Madpilot | it seems a bit... odd? | 04:11 |
| Madpilot | SteveMyers has basically rewritten the entire intent of that page, and made UserDocumentation a dumping ground for every half-complete howto | 04:11 |
| Burgundavia | Madpilot, reverting to the old version | 04:15 |
| Burgundavia | the edits to UserDocs can stay for now | 04:16 |
| Madpilot | OK, thanks. | 04:16 |
| Madpilot | now let's see if SteveMyers notices; he doesn't seem to have noticed the edits I did to his Modem pages... | 04:17 |
| Burgundavia | I dropped a note on his user page | 04:19 |
| === Burgundavia pines for Mediawiki | ||
| Madpilot | with visible Talk pages? | 04:21 |
| Burgundavia | yes, and notification when your user talk page changed | 04:22 |
| Madpilot | there was also talk a while ago about making Edit Comments mandatory. +1 to that idea | 04:22 |
| Burgundavia | indeeed | 04:22 |
| HrdwrBob | mm | 04:23 |
| HrdwrBob | possibly have a 'trivial edit' button | 04:23 |
| HrdwrBob | if you're fixing spelling or somesuch | 04:23 |
| Madpilot | there already is a trivial edit checkbox | 04:24 |
| HrdwrBob | yeah | 04:24 |
| Madpilot | which disables the sending of emails to ppl subscribed to that page | 04:24 |
| Madpilot | it could likely disable mandatory comments as well | 04:24 |
| HrdwrBob | yeah | 04:26 |
| === nickrud [n=aias@adsl-69-152-236-188.dsl.snantx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Madpilot | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiskSpace <-- this is short enough that it really should be rolled into another page, but I'm not quite sure where... somewhere in the Install pages? | 07:07 |
| nickrud | I would read that, as something that should be broken out: the swap, the /, and the archive-copier as a really obscure thing under 'if all else fails' | 07:11 |
| Madpilot | except that currently it's not linked to from *anywhere*, which rather defeats the purpose | 07:13 |
| nickrud | heh | 07:13 |
| Madpilot | we've got another enthusiastic newbie running all over the wiki making a mess, and firing stuff off at random... that's one of his pages | 07:14 |
| nickrud | the one unique thing on that page is the archive-copier option, that is what should be abstracted out\ | 07:14 |
| nickrud | speaking of wanting to run all over the wiki ... | 07:15 |
| nickrud | except I've tripped while running often enough | 07:15 |
| Madpilot | heh | 07:15 |
| Madpilot | I'm sure SteveMyers means well, but he really, really needs to coordinate some of his work with what's already in the wiki... | 07:16 |
| nickrud | :) | 07:17 |
| === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Karl@ppp210-102.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| nickrud | I really want to do do something usefull with the wiki, but, it can be hard to see how to coordinate with what's there | 07:18 |
| Madpilot | it turns out we now have some dailup modem info appearing on THREE seperate and different wiki pages; have a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems | 07:18 |
| nickrud | I look towards dapper, and a 3 or so year stable thing to write about | 07:19 |
| === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| nickrud | heh | 07:23 |
| nickrud | so, who knows all those modems? not me | 07:23 |
| Madpilot | I'm actually going to fire off an email to the doc-list later; someone who actually knows modems is going to have to clean that whole area up | 07:24 |
| Madpilot | I've used broadband for 5+ years now, and never had to set up a dailup modem on Linux... | 07:24 |
| nickrud | I have, too often, but, I had enough knowledge (luck, if you consider the hardware) to use a basic serial modem | 07:26 |
| nickrud | but, I see your point in general. | 07:27 |
| nickrud | it's not just modems, it's the video card issues I see on ubuntu over and over again, and other hardware issues | 07:28 |
| Madpilot | there are lots of winmodems in the world... :( | 07:28 |
| nickrud | I ran up against that again tonight, and fell flat. | 07:29 |
| Madpilot | graphics cards? y | 07:29 |
| Madpilot | yeah. I've been lucky, my ATI "just worked" with the fglrx drivers | 07:29 |
| nickrud | 3fdx rules ;) | 07:30 |
| nickrud | but, seriously | 07:30 |
| Madpilot | <grin> actually, I've been incredibly lucky with hardware - *everything* I've got has worked right away, with a minimum of fiddling or none at all | 07:31 |
| nickrud | I've only had a chance to give the faq a quick over view, there's a lot of fleshing out needed | 07:31 |
| Madpilot | the FAQ is pretty skeletal... I'm going to wait until I see the released Breezy FAQ before I start playing with that side of it | 07:32 |
| Madpilot | the wiki is enough! | 07:32 |
| nickrud | Madpilot, you have had access to useful info, your purchases were guided, I think | 07:32 |
| Madpilot | actually, I bought intending to run XP, not Linux | 07:33 |
| nickrud | heh, your karma must be fine :) | 07:33 |
| Madpilot | I just bought the best I could budget for, read lots of reviews, and was actually pretty conservative | 07:34 |
| nickrud | a sec, the cat's on the keyboard | 07:34 |
| nickrud | Anyhoo, I do want to help with useful docs over the long haul. | 07:39 |
| nickrud | And, I can be extremely ruthless, when it comes to culling bad writing | 07:40 |
| Madpilot | good | 07:40 |
| nickrud | But, I am not so arrogant to think I know how things work. | 07:41 |
| Madpilot | yeah, I hear you | 07:42 |
| nickrud | So, I guess I'm about at where the wiki is now, an amorphous mess | 07:42 |
| Madpilot | I've only been using Linux at all since May this year, so I'm very, very cautious about what I write & edit | 07:43 |
| nickrud | Well | 07:43 |
| nickrud | I am in the midst of fixing your addendum to CronHowto, actually | 07:44 |
| === Madpilot can't remember what he changed on CronHowto... | ||
| Madpilot | probably just typos & formatting? | 07:45 |
| nickrud | no, you pointed out that anacron is in universe; it's actually a fundamental part of ubuntu-desktop | 07:45 |
| nickrud | in main | 07:45 |
| nickrud | ;P | 07:46 |
| Madpilot | I don't think I changed that, I think it's a hangover from Warty when the doc was first written | 07:46 |
| nickrud | I only mention it because I made a fool of myself on #ubuntu, and had to re-educate myself | 07:47 |
| nickrud | and I've been using debian for almost 5 years; I dont' have newness as an honest reason | 07:48 |
| nickrud | and, in case I've not made myself clear: Your work has been useful to me | 07:50 |
| Madpilot | glad to hear that | 07:50 |
| nickrud | So. | 07:50 |
| Madpilot | I've basically been working on the docs that I've actually used, or building the ones that I wish I'd been able to read | 07:51 |
| nickrud | lol, what other reason is there to write docs | 07:51 |
| Madpilot | for volunteer doc maintainers? it seems to be the only good reason! | 07:52 |
| nickrud | you won't get any other perks, trust me, I did this 20 years agoi | 07:52 |
| === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Madpilot | there's always ego ;) | 07:52 |
| nickrud | and, now and then, a beer | 07:52 |
| nickrud | of course, if you doc your work, it may get you a decent job down the line. Not a bad goal. | 07:54 |
| === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-13-23.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === Burgundavia is actually installing something using Autopackage | ||
| Burgundavia | so far, I am not really that impressed | 09:50 |
| ajmitch__ | don't mention autopackage to mdz | 09:50 |
| ajmitch__ | it's like a red flag | 09:51 |
| Burgundavia | I couldn't find a .deb for SCOURGE and it wouldn't build from sourced | 09:51 |
| Burgundavia | ajmitch__, aside from the obivious, anything specific that mdz hates? | 09:52 |
| ajmitch__ | not that I recall | 09:52 |
| ajmitch__ | but we're not going to put it in universe anytime soon, afaik :) | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | the lack of integration with .deb is kind of scary | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | what if we hacked it so that it would install into /opt? | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | ok, no I am seriously not impressed | 09:54 |
| Burgundavia | if it integrated with apt, then I might be more interested | 09:56 |
| ajmitch__ | I'd be scared | 09:56 |
| Burgundavia | there is a use case | 09:56 |
| ajmitch__ | sure | 09:57 |
| ajmitch__ | binary software distributed by others | 09:57 |
| ajmitch__ | but the most common will be users wanting crack of the day | 09:57 |
| ajmitch__ | and screwing up their ubuntu system | 09:57 |
| ajmitch__ | and then filing bugs in bz/malone about it | 09:57 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 09:58 |
| Burgundavia | the other use case is stuff that isn't there yet | 09:58 |
| Burgundavia | such as scourge | 09:59 |
| mdke | morning | 11:51 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | hi mdke | 11:51 |
| mdke | has SteveMyers come in yet? | 11:55 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | not if he uses that nic, not while iv been here, no | 11:56 |
| mdke | no idea about his nick | 11:58 |
| Madpilot | mdke: you've been tracking his changes in the wiki too, huh? | 11:58 |
| mdke | not really | 11:58 |
| mdke | i subscribe to UserDocumentation though | 11:58 |
| mdke | i left a message on his homepage the other day and saw that corey left one yesterday | 11:59 |
| mdke | he has deleted them both however and is still not commenting his changes :/ | 11:59 |
| Madpilot | I've also left message on a couple of the pages he's done | 11:59 |
| Madpilot | *messages, rather | 11:59 |
| Madpilot | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- most noticably on here | 12:00 |
| mdke | are his changes very bad? | 12:00 |
| Madpilot | not really bad, mostly he's either duplicating pages that already exist or creating seperate pages for stuff that should be added to existing pages | 12:01 |
| Madpilot | and editing is not his strong point | 12:01 |
| mdke | damn | 12:02 |
| Madpilot | I had a quick search of the Ubuntu forums for his name, but came up blank there | 12:03 |
| mdke | he's a forum user I guess and is just placing howtos on the wiki without checking if they already exist | 12:03 |
| Madpilot | and some of the howtos he's dumping are pretty rough still | 12:03 |
| mdke | yeah | 12:03 |
| mdke | i'm gonna clean up that postfix one now | 12:03 |
| Madpilot | If you can have a go at the lm-sensors one, please do. I've done a bunch of cleanup and additions there, but it's still rough | 12:04 |
| mdke | nah | 12:04 |
| Madpilot | plus he misspelled 'sensors' as 'censors' in the original title... oops | 12:04 |
| mdke | lol | 12:05 |
| mdke | damn | 12:05 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol Madpilot. ouch. | 12:06 |
| Madpilot | on his userpage, he talks about some 'official' team to get the Forum howtos into the wiki - I haven't heard anything about that via the mailing list - just how official is this? | 12:06 |
| mdke | sort of | 12:06 |
| mdke | there is no team that I am aware of, but we tried to get an initiative to get the two working better together | 12:07 |
| mdke | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum | 12:07 |
| mdke | jeez that postfix guide sucks balls | 12:08 |
| Madpilot | right - except that one of the first and messiest things SteveMyer did was tear that forum-wiki page apart and dump all the draft-copy howtos out into the regular wiki | 12:08 |
| Madpilot | Corey reverted it a few hours ago... | 12:08 |
| mdke | okay... | 12:09 |
| mdke | what can we do? | 12:10 |
| mdke | we need to get dialogue going with the forum users | 12:10 |
| mdke | i might post a message | 12:11 |
| mdke | erm | 12:14 |
| mdke | Steve Myers has the following as his forum post signature | 12:14 |
| mdke | # Bahamut Wiki Publisher For : Ubuntu Forums | 12:14 |
| Madpilot | on his wiki userpage he describes himself as "Ubuntu Forum staff" | 12:15 |
| Madpilot | what is 'Bahamut', anyway? | 12:15 |
| mdke | a user | 12:16 |
| Madpilot | ah | 12:16 |
| mdke | he's not forum staff though | 12:16 |
| mdke | weird | 12:16 |
| Madpilot | he's 21 - delusions of grandeur? j/k | 12:16 |
| mdke | possibly | 12:16 |
| mdke | he is scary lookin | 12:16 |
| ajmitch__ | heh | 12:17 |
| Madpilot | still can't find his name in the Forum - got a URL? | 12:17 |
| === Kamping_Kaiser looks at wiki page | ||
| mdke | i'll email him privately | 12:17 |
| ajmitch__ | mdke: don't be biased against those of us who look scary ;) | 12:17 |
| mdke | nah, just kidding | 12:17 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol | 12:17 |
| mdke | http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=14347 | 12:17 |
| Madpilot | I think that the forum search doesn't search usenames... | 12:17 |
| mdke | ok i'll email him and we'll see what happens | 12:20 |
| === mdke prides himself on his diplomacy | ||
| === Kamping_Kaiser wonders whta the deal with this steve bloke is anyway... is he not doing stuff to standard? | ||
| Madpilot | get him to join the doc mailing list, so that at least we've got a contact point... | 12:21 |
| Madpilot | Kamping_Kaiser: he's mostly been dumping stuff into the main wiki that should still be in the draft pages, so it's really roughly written | 12:22 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | oh, right. :| *goes to read about wiki and avoid making another dumper* | 12:22 |
| Madpilot | and some of it doesn't seem current, and there's also a lot of stuff that we're not supposed to encourage, like running as root... | 12:22 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | so all round not good? | 12:24 |
| Madpilot | not edited, more than not good | 12:24 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | mmmm. ok. | 12:24 |
| mdke | we are going to have to document some guidelines for wiki posting | 12:26 |
| mdke | and thing about access control for UserDocumentation | 12:26 |
| mdke | if we are serious about the wiki being a documentation resource | 12:26 |
| Madpilot | I'm all for making edit comments mandatory, as a first step | 12:26 |
| mdke | you'll have to pay someone to hack the code | 12:27 |
| mdke | or convince someone else to pay | 12:27 |
| mdke | hmm | 12:27 |
| mdke | there are a few quite leet moin/python hackers around who we could approach I guess | 12:28 |
| ajmitch__ | python is simple | 12:28 |
| ajmitch__ | hacking moin probably not quite so simple, but manageable | 12:28 |
| mdke | ;) | 12:28 |
| Madpilot | we've talked about doing mandatory comments on the mailing list, after the last round of 'overenthusiastic new person goes berserk' a few months ago... | 12:29 |
| mdke | yes | 12:29 |
| mdke | Madpilot, but the point is that there is no option to do that, unless you rewrite some of the wiki software | 12:29 |
| mdke | it's all very well being agreed on it, but someone needs to do it | 12:29 |
| Madpilot | yeah... but at least we can keep the idea in circulation... ;) | 12:30 |
| mdke | sure | 12:30 |
| mdke | ok i'm starting this page, please leave thoughts and ideas | 12:31 |
| mdke | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftWikiRules | 12:31 |
| Madpilot | looks pretty complete already... | 12:32 |
| mdke | i copied them out of my email to Steve | 12:32 |
| Madpilot | heh | 12:32 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | mdke: so catagory cleanup is all the unfinished pages? not just stuff that people find on the wiki and think needs work? | 12:35 |
| Madpilot | Kamping_Kaiser: Cleanup seems to be both; unfinished = needs work, anyway... | 12:40 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | ok. thanks | 12:40 |
| Madpilot | good night/morning/whatever, all. need sleep... | 12:50 |
| mdke | we could turn that page into a general guide to the wiki | 12:50 |
| mdke | rather than "rules" | 12:50 |
| Madpilot | your DraftWikiRules one? yes... | 12:51 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | later Madpilot. see you then then :) | 12:51 |
| === ajmitch__ has a bad habit of not writing wiki comments since most of his changes are to MOTU status pages | ||
| Kamping_Kaiser | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryDocteam <- is that this docteam? thats a long list | 12:52 |
| mdke | ajmitch__, the guidelines would be mainly for docs as i see it | 12:53 |
| ajmitch__ | right | 12:55 |
| === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mdke | hi zyga | 12:59 |
| zyga | :) | 01:00 |
| mdke | couple of points to make straight away | 01:00 |
| mdke | the wiki aims to be new user friendly | 01:00 |
| mdke | so where it isn't, we need to improve that | 01:00 |
| mdke | and we'd be glad of your help | 01:00 |
| === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-122-217.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| zyga | wiki is wrong at the start | 01:01 |
| zyga | hello Yagisan | 01:01 |
| Yagisan | hello zyga | 01:01 |
| zyga | wiki is BIG | 01:01 |
| mdke | wrongt? | 01:01 |
| zyga | it is overwhelming IMHO | 01:01 |
| mdke | zyga, have you looked at UserDocumentation? | 01:01 |
| mdke | it is structured in a way to make it accessible | 01:02 |
| zyga | mdke: no, I didn't even know it exists - neither will random new users probably - checking | 01:02 |
| mdke | the wiki is searchable, and so is that page | 01:02 |
| mdke | zyga, it is the first and most prominent link on the front page of the wiki | 01:02 |
| Yagisan | zyga: The wiki just needs to be promoted better | 01:02 |
| mdke | we can't do much better than that | 01:03 |
| zyga | mdke: mmm | 01:03 |
| mdke | a massive bold link at the top of the front page of the wiki... | 01:03 |
| Yagisan | zyga: what are the main user issues you see ? | 01:03 |
| zyga | mdke: it looks better than the last time I've checked | 01:03 |
| mdke | zyga, ok. we'd be glad of your help in improving it, pls join the docteam mailing list if you are interested | 01:03 |
| mdke | the second point I wanted to make | 01:03 |
| mdke | have you seen the ("official") Ubuntu starter guide? | 01:04 |
| Yagisan | zyga: I poped my 70 year old parents-in-law in front of Ubuntu boxes (in a foreign language) and they didn't have trouble ? | 01:04 |
| zyga | that page should be a homepage :) | 01:04 |
| zyga | Yagisan: I poped mine mom and dad and they did have some issues | 01:04 |
| zyga | Yagisan: quite minor though | 01:04 |
| zyga | but the 1) didn't want to play movies initially (they did want that later) | 01:05 |
| mdke | the starter guide can be accessed in breezy by clicking System -> Help, then clicking on the starter guide | 01:05 |
| zyga | 2) didn't want to interface with their inexisting windows boxes | 01:05 |
| mdke | you will find answers to common tasks there | 01:05 |
| Yagisan | zyga: then the problem isn't actually New Users but rather "medium-advanced" Windows users | 01:05 |
| zyga | Yagisan: true | 01:05 |
| zyga | Yagisan: yet they might be a massive amount of actuall converts | 01:05 |
| Yagisan | that lack the interest to distinguish that Ubuntu isn't Windows | 01:06 |
| zyga | IMHO we either get totally new users or medium advanced that are not afraid to change their os | 01:06 |
| mdke | anyhow | 01:06 |
| mdke | regardless of that | 01:07 |
| mdke | please feel free to make any suggestions about improving docs on our mailing list | 01:07 |
| zyga | mdke: I'll read the archives first | 01:07 |
| Yagisan | Is there a table of Ubuntu/Windows equivalents anyware ? | 01:07 |
| zyga | Yagisan: I've seen something like that some time ago | 01:07 |
| Yagisan | that might be more of what you are after zyga | 01:08 |
| zyga | Yagisan: I cannot remember the name though | 01:08 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | Yagisan: lotsof them, just i cant find any up to date ones | 01:08 |
| zyga | Yagisan: I'm not after anything :) but answering a simple question in #ubuntu shows common issues | 01:08 |
| Yagisan | zyga: eg if you burned cd's using nero, heres how to do it in k3b | 01:08 |
| mdke | zyga, try the starter guide, you should find it has most of those answers | 01:08 |
| mdke | gtg now | 01:09 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | later mdke | 01:09 |
| Yagisan | mdke: see you | 01:09 |
| === zyga knows his way around distros, thanks guys :) | ||
| === zyga just wanted to know how to help people in #ubuntu better | ||
| mdke | we can't force them to read docs | 01:10 |
| mdke | but we can help to make things as obvious as possible | 01:10 |
| zyga | mdke: next time I'll point users to that page, thanks | 01:10 |
| mdke | cool | 01:10 |
| mdke | for breezy, they will have that guide too | 01:10 |
| Yagisan | mdke: are you talking about http://ubuntuguide.org/ ? | 01:11 |
| mdke | no | 01:11 |
| Yagisan | good | 01:11 |
| mdke | we took that and hacked it up | 01:11 |
| mdke | and made this | 01:11 |
| Yagisan | but that is top of googles hits | 01:11 |
| mdke | well, we'll publish ours and people can choose | 01:11 |
| zyga | mdke: this? :) | 01:11 |
| zyga | mdke: is there any fixed uguide then/ | 01:11 |
| mdke | this = our ("official") guide | 01:11 |
| zyga | guide.ubuntu.com would be lovely | 01:12 |
| Yagisan | mdke: where can I see this ? | 01:12 |
| mdke | dude | 01:12 |
| mdke | system -> Help -> starter guide | 01:12 |
| mdke | if you have Breezy | 01:12 |
| zyga | heh | 01:12 |
| === zyga got used to avoid clicking on any help button after his years of experience with 'usefull docs' | ||
| zyga | thanks mdke | 01:12 |
| === Yagisan realises he doesn't actually have it installed =-O | ||
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol | 01:13 |
| zyga | how about a system->help submenu | 01:15 |
| zyga | :) | 01:15 |
| Yagisan | so ahh - what package should I install to get this guide :-[ | 01:15 |
| zyga | Yagisan: ubuntu-docs | 01:16 |
| zyga | arhhh | 01:16 |
| === zyga really really hopes that breezy will get after-release i18n upgrades | ||
| zyga | a quote from the guide | 01:17 |
| zyga | Co znaczy sowo Ubuntu? | 01:17 |
| zyga | Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. To find out more, visit http://www.ubuntu.com | 01:17 |
| zyga | 'what does ubuntu mean' | 01:17 |
| zyga | 'yada yada yada, english stuff' | 01:17 |
| mdke | i hope so too | 01:17 |
| zyga | helpfull ;-) | 01:17 |
| mdke | go translate! | 01:17 |
| zyga | mdke: I do :) | 01:17 |
| zyga | hmm | 01:18 |
| mdke | what language? | 01:18 |
| zyga | AFAIR ubuntu-docs was translated already, strange | 01:18 |
| zyga | mdke: pl | 01:18 |
| zyga | mdke: launchpad.net/people/zkrynicki/translations | 01:18 |
| zyga | mdke: launchpad.net/people/zkrynicki/+translations | 01:18 |
| zyga | that is | 01:18 |
| mdke | polish is about 10% done | 01:18 |
| mdke | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide | 01:19 |
| zyga | ah, different package then | 01:19 |
| === zyga thinks that .desktop files suck l10n wise ;/ | ||
| zyga | The following admonitions will be found throughout the book: | 01:21 |
| zyga | what does 'admonitions' mean?? | 01:21 |
| zyga | from, faqguide.xml:180(emphasis) | 01:21 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | 'admonish' usualy means to 'tell off' | 01:21 |
| Yagisan | does ubuntu-docs require yelp to show up ? | 01:21 |
| === Kamping_Kaiser is still trying to his head around svn, docbook and other doc-team things | ||
| zyga | Kamping_Kaiser: so basically things to be wary about | 01:22 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | Yagisan: yes, i think it does | 01:24 |
| Yagisan | Kamping_Kaiser: heh - I removed that and the 64 bit firefox from my system - that explains why I can't see it even after putting on ubuntu-docs | 01:26 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol. | 01:26 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | iirc yelp is used to display the docs. t | 01:27 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | -t | 01:27 |
| === Kamping_Kaiser shakes hand out - its sore from clicking the down arrown in FF so much reading the wiki ;D | ||
| mdke | best check dictionary.com or something for admonitions, i don't think it means that | 01:34 |
| mdke | ah yeah it does | 01:35 |
| mdke | warnings | 01:35 |
| zyga | mdke: that word should be removed from the docs IMHO | 01:36 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | how much email goes through the ubuntu-doc-commit list? im guesing not much (judging by hte files updated by svn), but is it anything like breezy-changes ? | 01:50 |
| mdke | no | 02:28 |
| mdke | zyga, yes I agree, please file a bug | 02:28 |
| mdke | it is not consistent with the docteam styleguide | 02:28 |
| zyga | mdke: okay | 02:28 |
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| zyga | mdke: bugzilla or malone? | 02:53 |
| === zyga never really knows where | ||
| mdke | bugzilla | 02:54 |
| mdke | under documentation | 02:54 |
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| jsgotangco | mdke, nice one on draftwikiguide maybe when its done we can incorporate it on the styleguide and eventually make it a docmanual | 03:16 |
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| mdke | jsgotangco, nice idea | 03:33 |
| mdke | i think we should make it a general help page on the wiki | 03:34 |
| mdke | add some things about markup and so on | 03:34 |
| jsgotangco | yeah i was thinking to add that on the current styleguide | 03:34 |
| jsgotangco | the gdp has a bigger manual like that | 03:34 |
| jsgotangco | the styleguide is just a chapter of sorts | 03:34 |
| mdke | the thing is | 03:35 |
| mdke | the styleguide has kinda an overreaching scope | 03:35 |
| mdke | it applies to all our docs | 03:35 |
| jsgotangco | you suggest to limit the scope? | 03:35 |
| mdke | whereas the wiki guide would just be for the wiki and wouldn't apply to (eg) books | 03:35 |
| jsgotangco | true | 03:35 |
| mdke | no i don't suggest limiting the scope, just to keep em separate | 03:36 |
| mdke | and reference the styleguide in the wiki page | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | mmm | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | have you seen this | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamPlansDapper | 03:36 |
| mdke | yes | 03:37 |
| mdke | here is my opinion | 03:37 |
| jsgotangco | 'tis too early | 03:37 |
| mdke | what in god's name is the point of a BOF at UBZ for the docteam, when there is gonna be one person there? | 03:37 |
| jsgotangco | its not even a BOF rob just wrote that stuff | 03:38 |
| mdke | ah ok | 03:39 |
| mdke | well it is something we can talk about at a meeting | 03:39 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 03:39 |
| mdke | we will need to start sorting ourselves out soon | 03:39 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 03:39 |
| mdke | hey ho | 03:41 |
| mdke | we'll be ok | 03:41 |
| jsgotangco | oh of course =) | 03:41 |
| jsgotangco | we've been through this before hehe | 03:41 |
| mdke | sure | 03:41 |
| jsgotangco | i'll just finish the release notes in a few days | 03:42 |
| mdke | cool | 03:42 |
| jsgotangco | i'll probably remove known issues as fabbione commented on removing the only one written at the moment | 03:44 |
| mdke | okay | 03:45 |
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| jsgotangco | hi mpt | 04:20 |
| mpt | hi jsgotangco | 04:20 |
| jsgotangco | mdke, you still around? | 04:45 |
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| jsgotangco | n1c0las, hi | 04:56 |
| n1c0las | hi | 04:58 |
| n1c0las | How is it going here | 04:58 |
| jsgotangco | ahh not so much its a weeekend | 04:58 |
| n1c0las | hmm, I would expect to see more traffic then :) | 04:59 |
| jsgotangco | not on a sunday really | 05:00 |
| n1c0las | how was the DocTeam meeting last friday? | 05:00 |
| jsgotangco | oh i came in late and no one came | 05:01 |
| n1c0las | sorry to hear that | 05:01 |
| n1c0las | I also saw there was no agenda | 05:01 |
| n1c0las | although the discussion on the list is an interesting one, re: docs management post freeze | 05:02 |
| jsgotangco | its my fault i didnt update the agenda its my responsibility | 05:02 |
| jsgotangco | but we'll manage those things a few days after release =) | 05:02 |
| n1c0las | I know that some members of the dutch team will do a huge translation effort in about a month on a weekend | 05:03 |
| jsgotangco | mmm that's nice | 05:03 |
| n1c0las | for now I am familiaring myself with Breezy | 05:03 |
| jsgotangco | the translations are still going in | 05:04 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | hi n1c0las | 05:04 |
| n1c0las | I dist-upgraded my laptop yesterday | 05:04 |
| n1c0las | and am now preparing a presentation I need to give in two weeks | 05:04 |
| n1c0las | Hi Kamping_Kaiser | 05:04 |
| jsgotangco | n1c0las, neat | 05:05 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | :) | 05:05 |
| n1c0las | Seveas and I spend some time together today to talk a bit about it. | 05:05 |
| n1c0las | He lives about an hour drive fromme. | 05:05 |
| jsgotangco | wow | 05:05 |
| n1c0las | He send me some presentation examples from himself and others | 05:06 |
| n1c0las | Yeaj, it is fun to chat with someone and find out he lives close by :) | 05:06 |
| jsgotangco | have you checked out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations | 05:06 |
| n1c0las | Yep. I got some neat examples from there | 05:07 |
| n1c0las | I also will use the new FAQ from Mark to explain to people why Ubuntu is and will always be free | 05:08 |
| n1c0las | Of course we dutch like stuff free :) | 05:08 |
| n1c0las | When the presentation is ready I can put it up there as well. | 05:09 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol. dont we all? | 05:10 |
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| mvirkkil | I've been thinking about an interactive help system which would be based on xmmp (the jabber protocol). Thoughts? | 07:31 |
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| claude | hi | 10:52 |
| claude | does someone know if faqguide-fr has still a chance to be part of breezy ? | 10:53 |
| claude | i finished translation on Tuesday | 10:53 |
| claude | #@&%* of freeze :( | 10:54 |
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| mdke | claude, no chance to have it in for release, but i will battle hard on your (and others') behalf to get an update in | 11:21 |
| claude | mdke, thanks :) | 11:22 |
| claude | maybe it will imply to include them in lang-packs ? | 11:23 |
| mdke | claude, not for breezy I'm afraid | 11:24 |
| mdke | hopefully for dapper | 11:24 |
| claude | maybe we'll block any translation on ubuntu-docs in our French team until a solution is found | 11:25 |
| mdke | claude, if you want to. But i thought you said you'd finished translation? | 11:25 |
| claude | yes, for this time it's finished | 11:26 |
| mdke | this question is the top of my todo list for now anyhow | 11:26 |
| claude | i know you'll do your best :) | 11:26 |
| mdke | i am quite confident | 11:26 |
| claude | do you think my proposal of not freezing documentation has a chance to be accepted ? | 11:27 |
| mdke | no | 11:30 |
| mdke | i hope not :) | 11:30 |
| mdke | we need to freeze documentation otherwise translation cannot be done properly | 11:30 |
| mdke | and for a number of other reasons | 11:30 |
| mdke | e.g. making sure bugs are fixed and don't break the release | 11:30 |
| claude | bugs in documentation ? | 11:31 |
| mdke | sure | 11:31 |
| mdke | there have been loads of bugs in ubuntu-docs | 11:31 |
| claude | and freeze did not help ;-) | 11:31 |
| mdke | claude, it helped us fix them in time for the release | 11:31 |
| claude | i think there are still some | 11:32 |
| claude | i understand that new docs should not be delvelopped | 11:32 |
| claude | but i think it's a pity that current errors cannot be corrected after freeze | 11:33 |
| mdke | well, they should be corrected before freeze | 11:33 |
| mdke | that is why we have several statuses for docs | 11:34 |
| claude | you know it's impossible to release entirely bug free docs | 11:35 |
| mdke | true | 11:35 |
| mdke | so why try? | 11:35 |
| mpt | Does anyone have a screenshot of Adept handy? | 11:36 |
| mdke | we do our best | 11:36 |
| mpt | I can't find one even on Adept's own site | 11:36 |
| mdke | mpt, no, why? | 11:36 |
| mpt | I'm just interested in seeing its design, that's all | 11:36 |
| claude | mdke, i only think that freeze concept should not apply to documentation correction | 11:37 |
| claude | but maybe i need some nore thinking :) | 11:37 |
| claude | s/nore/more | 11:37 |
| mdke | mpt, better install it :D | 11:37 |
| mdke | claude, yeah, we all need to think about it | 11:38 |
| claude | mdke, like we do for translation with lang-packs | 11:38 |
| mdke | anyhow, i'll do my best on the translation | 11:38 |
| mdke | claude, translation is different IMO | 11:38 |
| === mdke goes to bed | ||
| mpt | mdke, yeah, if I had Ubuntu running I would | 11:39 |
| mpt | goodnight | 11:39 |
| mdke | mpt, there must be a screenshot around somewhere | 11:41 |
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