[04:10] <Madpilot> anyone know about the "Under no circumstances should this page be edited unless" '''authorized.''' and other changes here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum?action=diff
[04:11] <Madpilot> it seems a bit... odd?
[04:11] <Madpilot> SteveMyers has basically rewritten the entire intent of that page, and made UserDocumentation a dumping ground for every half-complete howto
[04:15] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, reverting to the old version
[04:16] <Burgundavia> the edits to UserDocs can stay for now
[04:16] <Madpilot> OK, thanks.
[04:17] <Madpilot> now let's see if SteveMyers notices; he doesn't seem to have noticed the edits I did to his Modem pages...
[04:19] <Burgundavia> I dropped a note on his user page
[04:21] <Madpilot> with visible Talk pages? 
[04:22] <Burgundavia> yes, and notification when your user talk page changed
[04:22] <Madpilot> there was also talk a while ago about making Edit Comments mandatory. +1 to that idea
[04:22] <Burgundavia> indeeed
[04:23] <HrdwrBob> mm
[04:23] <HrdwrBob> possibly have a 'trivial edit' button
[04:23] <HrdwrBob> if you're fixing spelling or somesuch
[04:24] <Madpilot> there already is a trivial edit checkbox
[04:24] <HrdwrBob> yeah
[04:24] <Madpilot> which disables the sending of emails to ppl subscribed to that page
[04:24] <Madpilot> it could likely disable mandatory comments as well
[04:26] <HrdwrBob> yeah
[07:07] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiskSpace  <-- this is short enough that it really should be rolled into another page, but I'm not quite sure where... somewhere in the Install pages?
[07:11] <nickrud> I would read that, as something that should be broken out: the swap, the /, and the archive-copier as a really obscure thing under 'if all else fails'
[07:13] <Madpilot> except that currently it's not linked to from *anywhere*, which rather defeats the purpose
[07:13] <nickrud> heh
[07:14] <Madpilot> we've got another enthusiastic newbie running all over the wiki making a mess, and firing stuff off at random... that's one of his pages
[07:14] <nickrud> the one unique thing on that page is the archive-copier option, that is what should be abstracted out\
[07:15] <nickrud> speaking of wanting to run all over the wiki ...
[07:15] <nickrud> except I've tripped while running often enough
[07:15] <Madpilot> heh
[07:16] <Madpilot> I'm sure SteveMyers means well, but he really, really needs to coordinate some of his work with what's already in the wiki...
[07:17] <nickrud> :)
[07:18] <nickrud> I really want to do do something usefull with the wiki, but, it can be hard to see how to coordinate with what's there
[07:18] <Madpilot> it turns out we now have some dailup modem info appearing on THREE seperate and different wiki pages; have a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems
[07:19] <nickrud> I look towards dapper, and a 3 or so year stable thing to write about
[07:23] <nickrud> heh
[07:23] <nickrud> so, who knows all those modems? not me
[07:24] <Madpilot> I'm actually going to fire off an email to the doc-list later; someone who actually knows modems is going to have to clean that whole area up
[07:24] <Madpilot> I've used broadband for 5+ years now, and never had to set up a dailup modem on Linux...
[07:26] <nickrud> I have, too often, but, I had enough knowledge (luck, if you consider the hardware) to use a basic serial modem
[07:27] <nickrud> but, I see your point in general. 
[07:28] <nickrud> it's not just modems, it's the video card issues I see on ubuntu over and over again, and other hardware issues
[07:28] <Madpilot> there are lots of winmodems in the world... :(
[07:29] <nickrud> I ran up against that again tonight, and fell flat. 
[07:29] <Madpilot> graphics cards? y
[07:29] <Madpilot> yeah. I've been lucky, my ATI "just worked" with the fglrx drivers
[07:30] <nickrud> 3fdx rules ;)
[07:30] <nickrud> but, seriously
 actually, I've been incredibly lucky with hardware - *everything* I've got has worked right away, with a minimum of fiddling or none at all
[07:31] <nickrud> I've only had a chance to give the faq a quick over view, there's a lot of fleshing out needed
[07:32] <Madpilot> the FAQ is pretty skeletal... I'm going to wait  until I see the released Breezy FAQ before I start playing with that side of it
[07:32] <Madpilot> the wiki is enough!
[07:32] <nickrud> Madpilot, you have had access to useful info, your purchases were guided, I think
[07:33] <Madpilot> actually, I bought intending to run XP, not Linux
[07:33] <nickrud> heh, your karma must be fine :)
[07:34] <Madpilot> I just bought the best I could budget for, read lots of reviews, and was actually pretty conservative
[07:34] <nickrud> a sec, the cat's on the keyboard
[07:39] <nickrud> Anyhoo, I do want to help with useful docs over the long haul. 
[07:40] <nickrud> And, I can be extremely ruthless, when it comes to culling bad writing
[07:40] <Madpilot> good
[07:41] <nickrud> But, I am not so arrogant to think I know how things work. 
[07:42] <Madpilot> yeah, I hear you
[07:42] <nickrud> So, I guess I'm about at where the wiki is now, an amorphous mess
[07:43] <Madpilot> I've only been using Linux at all since May this year, so I'm very, very cautious about what I write & edit
[07:43] <nickrud> Well
[07:44] <nickrud> I am in the midst of fixing your addendum to CronHowto, actually
[07:45] <Madpilot> probably just typos & formatting?
[07:45] <nickrud> no, you pointed out that anacron is in universe; it's actually a fundamental part of ubuntu-desktop
[07:45] <nickrud> in main
[07:46] <nickrud> ;P
[07:46] <Madpilot> I don't think I changed that, I think it's a hangover from Warty when the doc was first written
[07:47] <nickrud> I only mention it because I made a fool of myself on #ubuntu, and had to re-educate myself
[07:48] <nickrud> and I've been using debian for almost 5 years; I dont' have newness as an honest reason
[07:50] <nickrud> and, in case I've not made myself clear: Your work has been useful to me
[07:50] <Madpilot> glad to hear that
[07:50] <nickrud> So.
[07:51] <Madpilot> I've basically been working on the docs that I've actually used, or building the ones that I wish I'd been able to read
[07:51] <nickrud> lol, what other reason is there to write docs
[07:52] <Madpilot> for volunteer doc maintainers? it seems to be the only good reason!
[07:52] <nickrud> you won't get any other perks, trust me, I did this 20 years agoi
[07:52] <Madpilot> there's always ego ;)
[07:52] <nickrud> and, now and then, a beer
[07:54] <nickrud> of course, if you doc your work, it may get you a decent job down the line. Not a bad goal.
[09:50] <Burgundavia> so far, I am not really that impressed
[09:50] <ajmitch__> don't mention autopackage to mdz
[09:51] <ajmitch__> it's like a red flag
[09:51] <Burgundavia> I couldn't find a .deb for SCOURGE and it wouldn't build from sourced
[09:52] <Burgundavia> ajmitch__, aside from the obivious, anything specific that mdz hates?
[09:52] <ajmitch__> not that I recall
[09:53] <ajmitch__> but we're not going to put it in universe anytime soon, afaik :)
[09:53] <Burgundavia> the lack of integration with .deb is kind of scary
[09:53] <Burgundavia> what if we hacked it so that it would install into /opt?
[09:54] <Burgundavia> ok, no I am seriously not impressed
[09:56] <Burgundavia> if it integrated with apt, then I might be more interested
[09:56] <ajmitch__> I'd be scared
[09:56] <Burgundavia> there is a use case
[09:57] <ajmitch__> sure
[09:57] <ajmitch__> binary software distributed by others
[09:57] <ajmitch__> but the most common will be users wanting crack of the day
[09:57] <ajmitch__> and screwing up their ubuntu system
[09:57] <ajmitch__> and then filing bugs in bz/malone about it
[09:58] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:58] <Burgundavia> the other use case is stuff that isn't there yet
[09:59] <Burgundavia> such as scourge
[11:51] <mdke> morning
[11:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi mdke
[11:55] <mdke> has SteveMyers come in yet?
[11:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> not if he uses that nic, not while iv been here, no
[11:58] <mdke> no idea about his nick
[11:58] <Madpilot> mdke: you've been tracking his changes in the wiki too, huh?
[11:58] <mdke> not really
[11:58] <mdke> i subscribe to UserDocumentation though
[11:59] <mdke> i left a message on his homepage the other day and saw that corey left one yesterday
[11:59] <mdke> he has deleted them both however and is still not commenting his changes :/
[11:59] <Madpilot> I've also left message on a couple of the pages he's done
[11:59] <Madpilot> *messages, rather
[12:00] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems  <-- most noticably on here
[12:00] <mdke> are his changes very bad?
[12:01] <Madpilot> not really bad, mostly he's either duplicating pages that already exist or creating seperate pages for stuff that should be added to existing pages
[12:01] <Madpilot> and editing is not his strong point
[12:02] <mdke> damn
[12:03] <Madpilot> I had a quick search of the Ubuntu forums for his name, but came up blank there
[12:03] <mdke> he's a forum user I guess and is just placing howtos on the wiki without checking if they already exist
[12:03] <Madpilot> and some of the howtos he's dumping are pretty rough still
[12:03] <mdke> yeah
[12:03] <mdke> i'm gonna clean up that postfix one now
[12:04] <Madpilot> If you can have a go at the lm-sensors one, please do. I've done a bunch of cleanup and additions there, but it's still rough
[12:04] <mdke> nah
[12:04] <Madpilot> plus he misspelled 'sensors' as 'censors' in the original title... oops
[12:05] <mdke> lol
[12:05] <mdke> damn
[12:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol Madpilot. ouch.
[12:06] <Madpilot> on his userpage, he talks about some 'official' team to get the Forum howtos into the wiki - I haven't heard anything about that via the mailing list - just how official is this?
[12:06] <mdke> sort of
[12:07] <mdke> there is no team that I am aware of, but we tried to get an initiative to get the two working better together
[12:07] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum
[12:08] <mdke> jeez that postfix guide sucks balls
[12:08] <Madpilot> right - except that one of the first and messiest things SteveMyer did was tear that forum-wiki page apart and dump all the draft-copy howtos out into the regular wiki
[12:08] <Madpilot> Corey reverted it a few hours ago...
[12:09] <mdke> okay...
[12:10] <mdke> what can we do?
[12:10] <mdke> we need to get dialogue going with the forum users
[12:11] <mdke> i might post a message
[12:14] <mdke> erm
[12:14] <mdke> Steve Myers has the following as his forum post signature
[12:14] <mdke> # Bahamut Wiki Publisher For : Ubuntu Forums
[12:15] <Madpilot> on his wiki userpage he describes himself as "Ubuntu Forum staff"
[12:15] <Madpilot> what is 'Bahamut', anyway?
[12:16] <mdke> a user
[12:16] <Madpilot> ah
[12:16] <mdke> he's not forum staff though
[12:16] <mdke> weird
[12:16] <Madpilot> he's 21 - delusions of grandeur? j/k
[12:16] <mdke> possibly
[12:16] <mdke> he is scary lookin
[12:17] <ajmitch__> heh
[12:17] <Madpilot> still can't find his name in the Forum - got a URL?
[12:17] <mdke> i'll email him privately
[12:17] <ajmitch__> mdke: don't be biased against those of us who look scary ;)
[12:17] <mdke> nah, just kidding
[12:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[12:17] <mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=14347
[12:17] <Madpilot> I think that the forum search doesn't search usenames...
[12:20] <mdke> ok i'll email him and we'll see what happens
[12:21] <Madpilot> get him to join the doc mailing list, so that at least we've got a contact point...
[12:22] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: he's mostly been dumping stuff into the main wiki that should still be in the draft pages, so it's really roughly written
[12:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, right. :| *goes to read about wiki and avoid making another dumper*
[12:22] <Madpilot> and some of it doesn't seem current, and there's also a lot of stuff that we're not supposed to encourage, like running as root...
[12:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> so all round not good?
[12:24] <Madpilot> not edited, more than not good
[12:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> mmmm. ok. 
[12:26] <mdke> we are going to have to document some guidelines for wiki posting
[12:26] <mdke> and thing about access control for UserDocumentation
[12:26] <mdke> if we are serious about the wiki being a documentation resource
[12:26] <Madpilot> I'm all for making edit comments mandatory, as a first step
[12:27] <mdke> you'll have to pay someone to hack the code
[12:27] <mdke> or convince someone else to pay
[12:27] <mdke> hmm
[12:28] <mdke> there are a few quite leet moin/python hackers around who we could approach I guess
[12:28] <ajmitch__> python is simple
[12:28] <ajmitch__> hacking moin probably not quite so simple, but manageable
[12:28] <mdke> ;)
[12:29] <Madpilot> we've talked about doing mandatory comments on the mailing list, after the last round of 'overenthusiastic new person goes berserk' a few months ago...
[12:29] <mdke> yes
[12:29] <mdke> Madpilot, but the point is that there is no option to do that, unless you rewrite some of the wiki software
[12:29] <mdke> it's all very well being agreed on it, but someone needs to do it
[12:30] <Madpilot> yeah... but at least we can keep the idea in circulation... ;)
[12:30] <mdke> sure
[12:31] <mdke> ok i'm starting this page, please leave thoughts and ideas
[12:31] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftWikiRules
[12:32] <Madpilot> looks pretty complete already...
[12:32] <mdke> i copied them out of my email to Steve
[12:32] <Madpilot> heh
[12:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: so catagory cleanup is all the unfinished pages? not just stuff that people find on the wiki and think needs work?
[12:40] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: Cleanup seems to be both; unfinished = needs work, anyway...
[12:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. thanks
[12:50] <Madpilot> good night/morning/whatever, all. need sleep...
[12:50] <mdke> we could turn that page into a general guide to the wiki
[12:50] <mdke> rather than "rules"
[12:51] <Madpilot> your DraftWikiRules one? yes...
[12:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> later Madpilot. see you then then :)
[12:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryDocteam <-  is that this docteam? thats a long list
[12:53] <mdke> ajmitch__, the guidelines would be mainly for docs as i see it
[12:55] <ajmitch__> right
[12:59] <mdke> hi zyga 
[01:00] <zyga> :)
[01:00] <mdke> couple of points to make straight away
[01:00] <mdke> the wiki aims to be new user friendly
[01:00] <mdke> so where it isn't, we need to improve that
[01:00] <mdke> and we'd be glad of your help
[01:01] <zyga> wiki is wrong at the start
[01:01] <zyga> hello Yagisan 
[01:01] <Yagisan> hello zyga
[01:01] <zyga> wiki is BIG
[01:01] <mdke> wrongt?
[01:01] <zyga> it is overwhelming IMHO
[01:01] <mdke> zyga, have you looked at UserDocumentation?
[01:02] <mdke> it is structured in a way to make it accessible
[01:02] <zyga> mdke: no, I didn't even know it exists - neither will random new users probably - checking 
[01:02] <mdke> the wiki is searchable, and so is that page
[01:02] <mdke> zyga, it is the first and most prominent link on the front page of the wiki
[01:02] <Yagisan> zyga: The wiki just needs to be promoted better
[01:03] <mdke> we can't do much better than that
[01:03] <zyga> mdke: mmm 
[01:03] <mdke> a massive bold link at the top of the front page of the wiki...
[01:03] <Yagisan> zyga: what are the main user issues you see ?
[01:03] <zyga> mdke: it looks better than the last time I've checked
[01:03] <mdke> zyga, ok. we'd be glad of your help in improving it, pls join the docteam mailing list if you are interested
[01:03] <mdke> the second point I wanted to make
[01:04] <mdke> have you seen the ("official") Ubuntu starter guide?
[01:04] <Yagisan> zyga: I poped my 70 year old parents-in-law in front of Ubuntu boxes (in a foreign language) and they didn't have trouble ?
[01:04] <zyga> that page should be a homepage :)
[01:04] <zyga> Yagisan: I poped mine mom and dad and they did have some issues 
[01:04] <zyga> Yagisan: quite minor though
[01:05] <zyga> but the 1) didn't want to play movies initially (they did want that later)
[01:05] <mdke> the starter guide can be accessed in breezy by clicking System -> Help, then clicking on the starter guide
[01:05] <zyga> 2) didn't want to interface with their inexisting windows boxes
[01:05] <mdke> you will find answers to common tasks there
[01:05] <Yagisan> zyga: then the problem isn't actually New Users but rather "medium-advanced" Windows users
[01:05] <zyga> Yagisan: true
[01:05] <zyga> Yagisan: yet they might be a massive amount of actuall converts
[01:06] <Yagisan> that lack the interest to distinguish that Ubuntu isn't Windows
[01:06] <zyga> IMHO we either get totally new users or medium advanced that are not afraid to change their os
[01:06] <mdke> anyhow
[01:07] <mdke> regardless of that
[01:07] <mdke> please feel free to make any suggestions about improving docs on our mailing list
[01:07] <zyga> mdke: I'll read the archives first
[01:07] <Yagisan> Is there a table of Ubuntu/Windows equivalents anyware ?
[01:07] <zyga> Yagisan: I've seen something like that some time ago
[01:08] <Yagisan> that might be more of what you are after zyga
[01:08] <zyga> Yagisan: I cannot remember the name though
[01:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> Yagisan: lotsof them, just i cant find any up to date ones
[01:08] <zyga> Yagisan: I'm not after anything :) but answering a simple question in #ubuntu shows common issues
[01:08] <Yagisan> zyga: eg if you burned cd's using nero, heres how to do it in k3b
[01:08] <mdke> zyga, try the starter guide, you should find it has most of those answers
[01:09] <mdke> gtg now
[01:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> later mdke
[01:09] <Yagisan> mdke: see you
[01:10] <mdke> we can't force them to read docs
[01:10] <mdke> but we can help to make things as obvious as possible
[01:10] <zyga> mdke: next time I'll point users to that page, thanks
[01:10] <mdke> cool
[01:10] <mdke> for breezy, they will have that guide too
[01:11] <Yagisan> mdke: are you talking about http://ubuntuguide.org/ ?
[01:11] <mdke> no
[01:11] <Yagisan> good
[01:11] <mdke> we took that and hacked it up
[01:11] <mdke> and made this
[01:11] <Yagisan> but that is top of googles hits
[01:11] <mdke> well, we'll publish ours and people can choose
[01:11] <zyga> mdke: this? :)
[01:11] <zyga> mdke: is there any fixed uguide then/
[01:11] <mdke> this = our ("official") guide
[01:12] <zyga> guide.ubuntu.com would be lovely
[01:12] <Yagisan> mdke: where can I see this ?
[01:12] <mdke> dude
[01:12] <mdke> system -> Help -> starter guide
[01:12] <mdke> if you have Breezy
[01:12] <zyga> heh
[01:12] <zyga> thanks mdke
[01:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[01:15] <zyga> how about a system->help submenu
[01:15] <zyga> :)
[01:15] <Yagisan> so ahh - what package should I install to get this guide :-[
[01:16] <zyga> Yagisan: ubuntu-docs
[01:16] <zyga> arhhh
[01:17] <zyga> a quote from the guide
[01:17] <zyga> Co znaczy sowo Ubuntu?
[01:17] <zyga>     Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. To find out more, visit http://www.ubuntu.com
[01:17] <zyga> 'what does ubuntu mean'
[01:17] <zyga> 'yada yada yada, english stuff'
[01:17] <mdke> i hope so too
[01:17] <zyga> helpfull ;-)
[01:17] <mdke> go translate!
[01:17] <zyga> mdke: I do :)
[01:18] <zyga> hmm 
[01:18] <mdke> what language?
[01:18] <zyga> AFAIR ubuntu-docs was translated already, strange
[01:18] <zyga> mdke: pl
[01:18] <zyga> mdke: launchpad.net/people/zkrynicki/translations
[01:18] <zyga> mdke: launchpad.net/people/zkrynicki/+translations
[01:18] <zyga> that is
[01:18] <mdke> polish is about 10% done
[01:19] <mdke> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide
[01:19] <zyga> ah, different package then
[01:21] <zyga> The following admonitions will be found throughout the book:
[01:21] <zyga> what does 'admonitions' mean??
[01:21] <zyga> from, faqguide.xml:180(emphasis)
[01:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> 'admonish' usualy means to 'tell off'
[01:21] <Yagisan> does ubuntu-docs require yelp to show up ?
[01:22] <zyga> Kamping_Kaiser: so basically things to be wary about
[01:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> Yagisan: yes, i think it does
[01:26] <Yagisan> Kamping_Kaiser: heh - I removed that and the 64 bit firefox from my system - that explains why I can't see it even after putting on ubuntu-docs
[01:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. 
[01:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> iirc yelp is used to display the docs. t
[01:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> -t
[01:34] <mdke> best check dictionary.com or something for admonitions, i don't think it means that
[01:35] <mdke> ah yeah it does
[01:35] <mdke> warnings
[01:36] <zyga> mdke: that word should be removed from the docs IMHO 
[01:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> how much email goes through the ubuntu-doc-commit list? im guesing not much (judging by hte files updated by svn), but is it anything like breezy-changes ?
[02:28] <mdke> no
[02:28] <mdke> zyga, yes I agree, please file a bug
[02:28] <mdke> it is not consistent with the docteam styleguide
[02:28] <zyga> mdke: okay
[02:53] <zyga> mdke: bugzilla or malone?
[02:54] <mdke> bugzilla
[02:54] <mdke> under documentation
[03:16] <jsgotangco> mdke, nice one on draftwikiguide maybe when its done we can incorporate it on the styleguide and eventually make it a docmanual
[03:33] <mdke> jsgotangco, nice idea
[03:34] <mdke> i think we should make it a general help page on the wiki
[03:34] <mdke> add some things about markup and so on
[03:34] <jsgotangco> yeah i was thinking to add that on the current styleguide
[03:34] <jsgotangco> the gdp has a bigger manual like that
[03:34] <jsgotangco> the styleguide is just a chapter of sorts
[03:35] <mdke> the thing is
[03:35] <mdke> the styleguide has kinda an overreaching scope
[03:35] <mdke> it applies to all our docs
[03:35] <jsgotangco> you suggest to limit the scope?
[03:35] <mdke> whereas the wiki guide would just be for the wiki and wouldn't apply to (eg) books
[03:35] <jsgotangco> true
[03:36] <mdke> no i don't suggest limiting the scope, just to keep em separate
[03:36] <mdke> and reference the styleguide in the wiki page
[03:36] <jsgotangco> mmm
[03:36] <jsgotangco> have you seen this
[03:36] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamPlansDapper
[03:37] <mdke> yes
[03:37] <mdke> here is my opinion
[03:37] <jsgotangco> 'tis too early
[03:37] <mdke> what in god's name is the point of a BOF at UBZ for the docteam, when there is gonna be one person there?
[03:38] <jsgotangco> its not even a BOF rob just wrote that stuff
[03:39] <mdke> ah ok
[03:39] <mdke> well it is something we can talk about at a meeting
[03:39] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:39] <mdke> we will need to start sorting ourselves out soon
[03:39] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:41] <mdke> hey ho
[03:41] <mdke> we'll be ok
[03:41] <jsgotangco> oh of course =)
[03:41] <jsgotangco> we've been through this before hehe
[03:41] <mdke> sure
[03:42] <jsgotangco> i'll just finish the release notes in a few days
[03:42] <mdke> cool
[03:44] <jsgotangco> i'll probably remove known issues as fabbione commented on removing the only one written at the moment
[03:45] <mdke> okay
[04:20] <jsgotangco> hi mpt
[04:20] <mpt> hi jsgotangco 
[04:45] <jsgotangco> mdke, you still around?
[04:56] <jsgotangco> n1c0las, hi
[04:58] <n1c0las> hi
[04:58] <n1c0las> How is it going here
[04:58] <jsgotangco> ahh not so much its a weeekend
[04:59] <n1c0las> hmm, I would expect to see more traffic then :)
[05:00] <jsgotangco> not on a sunday really
[05:00] <n1c0las> how was the DocTeam meeting last friday? 
[05:01] <jsgotangco> oh i came in late and no one came
[05:01] <n1c0las> sorry to hear that
[05:01] <n1c0las> I also saw there was no agenda
[05:02] <n1c0las> although the discussion on the list is an interesting one, re: docs management post freeze
[05:02] <jsgotangco> its my fault i didnt update the agenda its my responsibility
[05:02] <jsgotangco> but we'll manage those things a few days after release =)
[05:03] <n1c0las> I know that some members of the dutch team will do a huge translation effort in about a month on a weekend
[05:03] <jsgotangco> mmm that's nice
[05:03] <n1c0las> for now I am familiaring myself with Breezy
[05:04] <jsgotangco> the translations are still going in
[05:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi n1c0las
[05:04] <n1c0las> I dist-upgraded my laptop yesterday
[05:04] <n1c0las> and am now preparing a presentation I need to give in two weeks
[05:04] <n1c0las> Hi Kamping_Kaiser
[05:05] <jsgotangco> n1c0las, neat
[05:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[05:05] <n1c0las> Seveas and I spend some time together today to talk a bit about it.
[05:05] <n1c0las> He lives about an hour drive fromme.
[05:05] <jsgotangco> wow
[05:06] <n1c0las> He send me some presentation examples from himself and others
[05:06] <n1c0las> Yeaj, it is fun to chat with someone and find out he lives close by :)
[05:06] <jsgotangco> have you checked out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations
[05:07] <n1c0las> Yep. I got some neat examples from there
[05:08] <n1c0las> I also will use the new FAQ from Mark to explain to people why Ubuntu is and will always be free
[05:08] <n1c0las> Of course we dutch like stuff free :)
[05:09] <n1c0las> When the presentation is ready I can put it up there as well.
[05:10] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. dont we all?
[07:31] <mvirkkil> I've been thinking about an interactive help system which would be based on xmmp (the jabber protocol). Thoughts?
[10:52] <claude> hi
[10:53] <claude> does someone know if faqguide-fr has still a chance to be part of breezy ?
[10:53] <claude> i finished translation on Tuesday
[10:54] <claude> #@&%* of freeze :(
[11:21] <mdke> claude, no chance to have it in for release, but i will battle hard on your (and others') behalf to get an update in
[11:22] <claude> mdke, thanks :)
[11:23] <claude> maybe it will imply to include them in lang-packs ?
[11:24] <mdke> claude, not for breezy I'm afraid
[11:24] <mdke> hopefully for dapper
[11:25] <claude> maybe we'll block any translation on ubuntu-docs in our French team until a solution is found
[11:25] <mdke> claude, if you want to. But i thought you said you'd finished translation?
[11:26] <claude> yes, for this time it's finished
[11:26] <mdke> this question is the top of my todo list for now anyhow
[11:26] <claude> i know you'll do your best :)
[11:26] <mdke> i am quite confident
[11:27] <claude> do you think my proposal of not freezing documentation has a chance to be accepted ?
[11:30] <mdke> no
[11:30] <mdke> i hope not :)
[11:30] <mdke> we need to freeze documentation otherwise translation cannot be done properly
[11:30] <mdke> and for a number of other reasons
[11:30] <mdke> e.g. making sure bugs are fixed and don't break the release
[11:31] <claude> bugs in documentation ?
[11:31] <mdke> sure
[11:31] <mdke> there have been loads of bugs in ubuntu-docs
[11:31] <claude> and freeze did not help ;-)
[11:31] <mdke> claude, it helped us fix them in time for the release
[11:32] <claude> i think there are still some
[11:32] <claude> i understand that new docs should not be delvelopped
[11:33] <claude> but i think it's a pity that current errors cannot be corrected after freeze
[11:33] <mdke> well, they should be corrected before freeze
[11:34] <mdke> that is why we have several statuses for docs
[11:35] <claude> you know it's impossible to release entirely bug free docs
[11:35] <mdke> true
[11:35] <mdke> so why try?
[11:36] <mpt> Does anyone have a screenshot of Adept handy?
[11:36] <mdke> we do our best
[11:36] <mpt> I can't find one even on Adept's own site
[11:36] <mdke> mpt, no, why?
[11:36] <mpt> I'm just interested in seeing its design, that's all
[11:37] <claude> mdke, i only think that freeze concept should not apply to documentation correction
[11:37] <claude> but maybe i need some nore thinking :)
[11:37] <claude> s/nore/more
[11:37] <mdke> mpt, better install it :D
[11:38] <mdke> claude, yeah, we all need to think about it
[11:38] <claude> mdke, like we do for translation with lang-packs
[11:38] <mdke> anyhow, i'll do my best on the translation
[11:38] <mdke> claude, translation is different IMO
[11:39] <mpt> mdke, yeah, if I had Ubuntu running I would
[11:39] <mpt> goodnight
[11:41] <mdke> mpt, there must be a screenshot around somewhere