[12:02] <notmdz> slomo: bugzilla knew it ;-)
[12:03] <slomo> notmdz: oh ok... but anyway, dvd playback works fine here with totem :/ what kind of dvd is it?
[12:03] <notmdz> slomo: TRUMAN_SHOW_SCE
[12:04] <notmdz> I'll try a different disc
[12:04] <seb128> one of the usual upstream reply is "send me a DVD with the issue and I debug it" :)
[12:05] <tseng> and then review it on his blog
[12:05] <seb128> he he
[12:05] <seb128> I was thinking to BBB, but right hadess does that too :p
[12:06] <tseng> yes :P
[12:06] <slomo> notmdz: weird audio? i had some problems because of that in the past... was mostly with dts sound iirc
[12:07] <tseng> are you talking about xine/libdvdcss2 or gst?
[12:07] <notmdz> same crash with the Go Open DVD
[12:09] <slomo> notmdz: crash in what way? freeze? segfault?
[12:09] <slomo> tseng: gst
[12:09] <notmdz> slomo: crash as in restart/inform developers
[12:09] <notmdz> presumably a segfault or similar
[12:10] <seb128> any assertion if running from the command line?
[12:11] <slomo> that backtrace doesn't look useful... hmm... i'll try all my dvds tomorrow if i can reproduce it...
[12:12] <slomo> notmdz: btw, what kind of cpu does your machine have? i suspect that there will be problems with gst-ffmpeg on non-mmx x86... and on non-altivec powerpc
[12:12] <notmdz> slomo: k7
[12:12] <notmdz> totem-xine plays it fine
[12:13] <HWolf> where is the breezy-changes archive located?
[12:13] <notmdz> HWolf: lists.ubuntu.com
[12:14] <HWolf> notmdz, i figured that much, but I can't find the link going from there.
[12:15] <Kamion> HWolf: second link under "List"
[12:15] <Kamion> then first link on the page
[12:15] <HWolf> Kamion, omg, I overlooked it. :$
[12:18] <HWolf> wee, I found the changelog again.
[12:26] <mirak> hi
[12:26] <mirak> I fixed the initrd ppc problem for macintosh
[12:27] <mirak> if there is anyone in charge of that here ...
[12:27] <slomo> mirak: which one?
[12:28] <mirak> a problem with mounting the rootfs
[12:28] <slomo> mirak: #14485?
[12:28] <mirak> a link ?
[12:28] <slomo> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14485
[12:28] <mirak> slomo: do you have a full link ?
[12:28] <backports-r-us> Security team, #17410, typo in Mozilla package
[12:28] <mirak> ok
[12:29] <foxiness> can i tell here a about a bug on breezy ?
[12:29] <backports-r-us> 0ubuntu05.04 > 0ubuntu1, upgrade to Breezy will fail
[12:30] <mirak> slomo: yes ! that's the same issue
[12:30] <foxiness> there are a bug on arabic script on breezy show the txet like this "   " not like this "" 
[12:30] <mirak> slomo: I built a initrd with the old method with mkinitrd and it works
[12:30] <slomo> mirak: also with xfs as root fs? how did you fix it? ;)
[12:31] <mirak> slomo: yes I have xfs as rootfs
[12:31] <foxiness> the arabic font must be join
[12:31] <slomo> mirak: yes that is a known workaround ;) i use it the same way currently...
[12:31] <slomo> mirak: :(
[12:31] <mirak> slomo: I didn't really fixed it, but use the mkinitrd with a cramfs file instead of mkinitramfs
[12:31] <mirak> slomo: for me the reason is that the ide module cmd64x must be forced to load
[12:32] <Kamion> that's definitely not the reason on this hardware
[12:32] <mirak> if you look into the cramfs file, you will see a file loadmodules and you will se there is a bunch of modules forced to load
[12:32] <slomo> mirak: cmd64x is compiled into the kernel for ppc afaik... not as a module
[12:32] <Kamion> we won't be going back to initrd-tools for powerpc
[12:32] <mirak> slomo: no it's not
[12:33] <mirak> Kamion: then you must find a way to explicitely force the load of some modules
[12:33] <mirak> because they are not automatically loaded
[12:33] <mirak> exept if there are built into the kernel
[12:33] <slomo> mirak: oh it was another ide driver which was there... the pmac ide driver... my fault
[12:33] <mirak> the G3 b&w have two ide drivers in fact
[12:33] <Kamion> mirak: on my system, the hang was before the initramfs even started, and it only happened with XFS, not with other filesystems
[12:34] <Kamion> mirak: so with respect I don't think that's the problem
[12:34] <Kamion> if you're using initrd-tools, you're using a completely different code path, and workarounds applicable there are not generally applicable to initramfs-tools
[12:34] <mirak> dmesg says me the ramfs is loaded
[12:34] <mirak> I am aware of that
[12:35] <mirak> anyway a solution must be found
[12:35] <Kamion> yes, it is a major bug
[12:35] <mirak> I already had this problem on debianppc
[12:35] <Kamion> but "must be found" unfortunately does not really help; nobody seems to know what the real problem is
[12:35] <mirak> the problem was about ide drives name swapping
[12:35] <Kamion> Debian is not using initramfs-tools, so you did not encounter this problem there
[12:36] <Kamion> you encountered some different problem with similar symptoms
[12:36] <mirak> device swap I said
[12:36] <Kamion> I'm familiar with the problem you're describing, but it is not the same as bug #14485
[12:36] <mirak> what do you mean ?
[12:37] <mirak> well anyway I had the exact same problem as described in this bug
[12:37] <Kamion> it is not the same bug, even though it has the same symptoms
[12:37] <mirak> I am not sure what you are talking about now
[12:37] <mirak> ^^
[12:37] <Kamion> you can get that message for all kinds of reasons
[12:37] <Kamion> the problem currently encountered by Ubuntu powerpc users using XFS as / is a different one from previous reasons you may have encountered
[12:38] <mirak> ok
[12:38] <Kamion> we know this because it works fine on the same hardware using a different filesystem
[12:38] <backports-r-us> oh yeah, add Warty to the list of hell thanks to USN-186-1
[12:38] <mirak> ok
[12:38] <Kamion> as a workaround, use some different filesystem for /, or just for /boot if you like
[12:38] <Kamion> that should be sufficient
[12:38] <mirak> I was planing to drop xfs 
[12:38] <mirak> and use reiser
[12:39] <Kamion> I don't believe reiserfs currently suffers from that bug
[12:39] <mirak> if I use xfs it's because debian was only proposing a xfs install as an alternative to reiserfs some years ago
[12:39] <mirak> I then switched to ubuntu
[12:39] <backports-r-us> mirak: I've ran into lots of random corruption with XFS
[12:39] <mirak> I never had a problem with xfs
[12:39] <backports-r-us> mirak: it can't survive a hard reboot if my life depended on it
[12:40] <mirak> I had VERY BIG problem with hfsplus read/write
[12:40] <backports-r-us> but that's just me :)
[12:40] <mirak> lol
[12:40] <backports-r-us> I'm personally a JFS fan now
[12:40] <backports-r-us> former reiserfs fan
[12:40] <Kamion> I certainly wouldn't want to rely on being able to write to HFS+ from Linux
[12:40] <Kamion> anyway, bedtime
[12:40] <mirak> I use ext3 for my home because there is windows drivers for it
[12:40] <Kamion> notmdz: I've cronned the ubuntu-server build for 10:29 London time daily
[12:41] <Kamion> looks fine, apart from some redundant and confusing preseed files and boot options
[12:41] <mirak> but I think I will use a real fs and use colinux plus samba to read write on linux fs from windows
[12:42] <mirak> Kamion: what have the FS to do with not beeing able to mount root ?
[12:42] <backports-r-us> mirak: probably the initramfs scripts
[12:42] <backports-r-us> mirak: and I've had a struggle getting Grub to cooperate with XFS roots
[12:42] <mirak> I mean in my case, I should at least see the cmd64x driver be loaded since it's supposed to be in the initrd
[12:43] <mirak> backports-r-us: i managed to use grub and LVM2 so anything seems possible for me now :D
[12:43] <backports-r-us> lol
[12:45] <dholbach> good night, folks, i'm off
[12:45] <sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
[12:45] <dholbach> bye stefan :)
[12:46] <mirak> I am happy I have finnaly found the correspoding bug to my problem
[12:47] <mirak> in fact slomo did :p
[12:47] <mirak> I am not alone on eaarth !
[12:47] <mirak> youpi
[12:47] <mirak> :D
[12:47] <mirak> ok bye
[12:49] <azeem> w72
[12:59] <foxiness> the driver 'smart link' no longer work on breezy
[01:24] <speel> hey did you guys happen to remove the terminal from applications>system tools in gnome
[01:25] <elmo> speel: it's in applications->accessories
[01:25] <speel> ah Lol ok =x
[01:26] <Riddell> I always expect accessories to be full of cheap girly jewlery, but I'm just mistaking it for clair's accessories
[01:27] <speel> same here 
[01:27] <fabbione> elmo: dude. thanks for the chroots :)
[01:27] <opi> Riddell, btw: where's 3.5 link gone on kubuntu.org? Are you uploaded it into main?
[01:28] <opi> (and, btw, Hi:-)
[01:35] <HWolf> gees, seems sh had some time on his hands.
[01:35] <Riddell> opi: not uploaded, under announcements
[01:36] <opi> Riddell, superb
[02:39] <tseng> infinity: i did not upload
[02:39] <tseng> infinity: probably part of it
[02:40] <infinity> :)
[02:40] <bddebian> tseng: Nah, it's lack of my uploads.. ;-)
[03:19] <infinity> notmdz : Ouch, nice catch on the volatile mount mode.
[03:27] <bddebian> How do I stop this build from dumping out on warnings?  I've added -Werror.. What else can I try??
[03:27] <infinity> Uhm, dude.
[03:28] <infinity> -Werror is WHY it's doing that.
[03:28] <ajmitch> I hope that was s/added/removed/ ?
[03:28] <infinity>        -Werror
[03:28] <infinity>            Make all warnings into errors.
[03:28] <bddebian> SOrry, yes removed
[03:28] <infinity> Do you have any other -Werror-foo-bar stuff?
[03:28] <bddebian> No, it's just -g -O2
[03:28] <infinity> Then maybe it's dying on errors? :)
[03:29] <bddebian> Oh and I had to add -fno-strict-aliasing
[03:29] <infinity> (note that it will finish processing the current file, so you could be seeing "error, warning, warning, warning", and missing the error in the haystack of warnings.
[03:30] <bddebian> But most of these are stupid errors.  Extra () and bs like that
[03:32] <bddebian> function foo is not referenced.  Bar is not modified, could be declared constant, etc etc :-(
[04:08] <notmdz> infinity: yeah, that could have been embarrassing ;-)
[04:09] <infinity> notmdz : A wee bit, yes. :)
[04:09] <infinity> In other good news, you got all the minors incremented on the first upload, too.
[04:10] <infinity> (Care to file a big, blinking "as soon as dapper opens" bug for me to fix that mess?)
[04:10] <infinity> Oh, hah.  I lied.
[04:10] <infinity> Just got my first REJECT mail from katie. :)
[04:14] <notmdz> infinity: #@$@#
[04:16] <notmdz> I hereby propose a policy amendment: packages must not arbitrarily build incorrectly when you do OBVIOUS AND REASONABLE THINGS to them
[04:16] <bddebian> Amen to that policy
[04:16] <infinity> I'm sure Manoj will accept it without debate.
[04:17] <infinity> mdz : Uploaded.
[04:30] <mdz> infinity: installed
[05:01] <segfault> ogra: just uploaded a new xscreensaver po. should appear soon.
[07:08] <pitti> Good morning
[07:08] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[07:08] <pitti> Hi ajmitch 
[07:08] <jsgotangco> morning pitti
[07:12] <infinity> Hey pitti.
[07:24] <CaiN_SA> morning
[07:25] <fabbione> morning
[07:32] <infinity> Aww, crap.  I just realised that getting atheros to work in d-i would probably require almost zero effort.
[07:37] <infinity> fabbione : Ugh, I have that bug open elsewhere too.
[07:38] <fabbione> you do?
[07:38] <infinity> fabbione : I meant to look into whether or not festival can take a list of allowed hosts, and fix it.
[07:38] <fabbione> ok.. than you win ;(
[07:38] <fabbione> )
[07:38] <fabbione> i have no idea how festival works
[07:38] <infinity> (The problem is that it's doing a reverse lookup of 127.0.0.1, which reutned "localhost.localdomain", which doesn't match "localhost", and all hell breaks loose.
[07:38] <fabbione> no actually.. i don't even know what it is
[07:38] <fabbione> ahhhhh
[07:38] <fabbione> crap
[07:38] <infinity> I have no idea how it works either, that's why it's been low on the priority list.
[07:39] <infinity> Also, WTF is "reutned"?
[07:39] <infinity> I need new fingers.
[07:39] <pitti> bah, why is suspend to disk so utterly broken again? two weeks ago it was working perfectly...
[07:39] <infinity> pitti : Erm.  Is it?.. I should test after this kernel upgrade.
[07:39] <fabbione> infinity:  it won't make any difference
[07:39] <infinity> Suspend to disk and RAM were both working for me a week or two ago...
[07:39] <fabbione> the last kernel was only security
[07:40] <fabbione> i just figured that i don't have the power to sleep only 4 hours at night
[07:40] <fabbione> i guess i need more coffee
[07:41] <pitti> infinity: at suspend I had to manually create swap partitions because they were not present before; then it suspended fine, but it just ignored the image on the swap, booted normally, and left me without swap again
[07:41] <pitti> fabbione: you need more sleep :-/
[07:42] <fabbione> not only
[07:44] <fabbione> jeee guys stop uploading non bug fixes
[07:44] <fabbione> when a mirror rsync takes more than 30 minutes it ends up being broken ok?
[07:44] <fabbione> and i am not on a slow pipe
[07:44] <infinity> Yeah, I had to re-run my mirror update three times to get it back in sync.
[07:45] <fabbione> infinity: that's the reason why i was awake till 3am
[07:45] <infinity> Okay, if I'm reading the docs okay, this should do what I want.
[07:45] <infinity> -(defvar server_access_list '(localhost)
[07:45] <infinity> +(defvar server_access_list '("127.0.0.1" "localhost\.localdomain" "localhost")
[07:53] <fabbione> i suggest for dapper we must not have sources bigger than 1MB and that produces binary for more than 1MB
[07:53] <fabbione> (aggregate sum of all bins)
[07:53] <pitti> fabbione: hah, happy kernel splitting
[07:53] <pitti> fabbione: what about giving every driver its own source package? :-)
[07:54] <fabbione> pitti: that would be doable per subsystem/class easily
[07:54] <fabbione> it's much easier than you think :P
[07:55] <\sh> *cough* please, dear immunesystem, don't let me get a cold...I don't need it, I don't want it
[07:59] <infinity> I WIN!
[08:00] <infinity> Also, screenreaders are creepy.
[08:01] <pitti> fabbione: oh, I would actually appreciate to not download bazillions of bytes for just a driver update :-)
[08:01] <fabbione> Dear Release Managers, please stop new packages in main. thanks
[08:01] <fabbione> congratulation pitti
[08:01] <fabbione> the kernel one was good too
[08:01] <infinity> Dear Release Manager, please stop new packages in main, after you accept festival.
[08:01] <fabbione> It D1D d51v3 s0rt 0f 1ns4n3
[08:02] <infinity> That bug's been on my list ever since I was hired, I think.
[08:02] <fabbione> infinity: than close mine too.. please
[08:02] <infinity> Hooray for bumped priorities.
[08:02] <infinity> fabbione : I'll close both when the upload is approved and built/uploaded.
[08:02] <fabbione> infinity: thanks dude
[08:03] <jsgotangco> err do you guys know any "known issues" that needs to be listed in the release notes?
[08:03] <infinity> jsgotangco : Yes.
[08:03] <fabbione> jsgotangco: yes..
[08:04] <fabbione> jsgotangco: mention the users NOT to try to talk with the kernel/security guys
[08:04] <jsgotangco> please add them to BreezyReleaesNotes
[08:04] <fabbione> WE ARE GETTING INSANE!
[08:04] <jsgotangco> LOL
[08:04] <fabbione> MUHA MUHA MUHA
[08:04] <fabbione> pitti: dude we need more crack :)
[08:05] <fabbione> pitti: good one this time
[08:05] <pitti> fabbione: DUDE - you talked about "coffee"...
[08:05] <fabbione> pitti: no why??? 3 kernel uploads in a single day are cool :)
[08:06] <fabbione> isn't coffee the white powder you left on my desk?
[08:06] <pitti> fabbione: maybe, I don't drink coffee, so I couldn't tell anyway 
[08:06] <fabbione> pitti: eheh
[08:07] <fabbione> anyway.. let's keep the schizo aside..
[08:07] <fabbione> pitti: did you get all the CAN sorted out?
[08:07] <fabbione> or should we recheck together?
[08:08] <pitti> fabbione: for the kernel?
[08:09] <pitti> fabbione: I didn't yet ask for new ones, but I have tracked current ones well
[08:09] <fabbione> pitti: ok, the new ones can wait..
[08:09] <fabbione> we will add them at the first USN
[08:15] <CaiN_SA> ok right i need some info
[08:15] <CaiN_SA> best way to build a deb file ?
[08:16] <CaiN_SA> or must i go ask in other channel ?
[08:17] <\sh> CaiN_SA: #ubuntu-motu ?
[08:17] <\sh> CaiN_SA: but better to read the "new debian maintainer guide" first :)
[08:17] <Mirv> should I report in bugzilla that the yesterday's language-pack update didn't bring any of the new translations since 20050930 in? serpentine, language selector, disk management, other changes were done to fi...
[08:17] <CaiN_SA> sh url ?
[08:18] <\sh> CaiN_SA: it's all written on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[08:18] <CaiN_SA> thx
[08:18] <\sh> u're welcome
[08:19] <CaiN_SA> cos sh all the things ive seen
[08:19] <CaiN_SA> and used to build .debs
[08:19] <CaiN_SA> doesnt work
[08:21] <\sh> CaiN_SA: then join #ubuntu-motu and we will help u to satisfy your need...and let the hard-ubuntu-core devs do their work :)
[08:21] <\sh> here I mean, without being disturbed 
[08:21] <CaiN_SA> :/
[08:22] <CaiN_SA> well i have to get info somewhere
[08:22] <CaiN_SA> cos #ubuntu is no help
[08:22] <CaiN_SA> and i have to release same day as ubuntu
[08:22] <fabbione> Mirv: yes please do so
[08:22] <CaiN_SA> so thx
[08:34] <fabbione> infinity: how do i undep-wait with wb?
[08:34] <fabbione> it seems one depwait wasn't cleared properly on sparc
[08:34] <fabbione> ah no 
[08:34] <fabbione> never mind
[08:34] <fabbione> it's ok
[08:34] <infinity> If it's a dep-wait on a real package, cron.daily will do it for you.
[08:35] <infinity> If not, you want "--pretend-avail package_version"
[08:35] <infinity> And if the dep-wait is so broken that pretend-avail doesn't work (which can happen if someone types it in manually and fucks up the dpkg-like syntax), then you want to --forget the package (and cron.daily will bring it back in needs-build with no history on the next run)
[08:36] <fabbione> yup thanks
[08:36] <fabbione> i misread -i output
[09:23] <mvo> good morning
[09:23] <ajmitch> morning mvo!
[09:23] <jsgotangco> morning
[09:24] <lifeless> is there an equivalent to debian-keyring for ubuntu ?
[09:25] <mvo> lifeless: we have the ubuntu-keyring, but it only contains the archive keys right now
[09:25] <lifeless> I know
[09:26] <lifeless> we're doing a key-trust analysis in launchpad, would like the ubuntu devs and possible motus 
[09:26] <pitti> Hi mvo
[09:26] <lifeless> in a keyring.
[09:28] <infinity> lifeless : Ask elmo to export the ftp-master keyring for you.
[09:29] <Treenaks> you could screen-scrape the launchpad user pages ;)
[09:30] <mbreit> infinity: can i /query you about a buildd problem (at least it seems like a buildd problem ;))
[09:31] <infinity> How problematic is it?
[09:32] <mbreit> two packages (ardour and cheesetracker) don't get build and they are uninstallable at the moment
[09:32] <mbreit> so that should really get fixed before release
[09:32] <lifeless> elmo: please export the ftp-master keying for stub
[09:33] <infinity> keyring(s)
[09:33] <infinity> Should be one for main and one for universe.
[09:33] <lifeless> elmo: please channel infinity
[09:33] <sabdfl> pitti: did you see the mail from tino jyrinki?
[09:33] <pitti> sabdfl: I can't remember the name; what topic was that about?
[09:34] <sabdfl> Re: Translations (some/all?) weren't updated in 20051010?
[09:34] <infinity> Oh, hurray for the irritating "all your chrome is buggered until you restart all your firefox instances" bug.
[09:34] <siretart> lifeless: I can offer you the revu keyring, and the keyring of universe uploaders elmo passed me when revu started
[09:34] <siretart> if you need something quick
[09:34] <lifeless> siretart: we'll demo with the debian keyring, and do a final run when elmo arises
[09:35] <pitti> sabdfl: I did not get that mail; I wanted to update translations yesterday, but the current langpack was broken again; I contacted carlos
[09:35] <sabdfl> that's what he's saying
[09:35] <sabdfl> no new translations
[09:35] <pitti> sabdfl: if it is still broken today, I have to manually sort out the broken files
[09:35] <infinity> mbreit : ardour quite obviously appears to fail to build, I don't see how that qualifies as a "buildd problem".
[09:36] <pitti> sabdfl: but I didn't talk to carlos yet, he's not yet online
[09:36] <pitti> sabdfl: I sent carlos a list with the issues, maybe it just was a small bug (it worked fine the week before *sigh*)
[09:37] <mbreit> infinity: both packages build fine in each pbuilder i have tried and they have both the same problem: scons cancels the build and says that gcc failed but there is no gcc error... (i hope you understand what i mean ;))
[09:38] <infinity> mbreit : I'll try the builds locally for kicks, but a string of continual build failures over two months doesn't bode well for you.
[09:38] <pitti> Hey hey seb128 
[09:39] <pitti> oh, I scared him...
[09:39] <daniels> yo pitti
[09:39] <pitti> Hi daniels 
[09:39] <pitti> Moin seb128
[09:40] <daniels> yo seb
[09:40] <mbreit> infinity: i already talked with lamont... he did not have enougth time for it but he seemed to think that it _could be_ a buildd problem as well
[09:40] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:40] <infinity> Sure, anything COULD be, doesn't mean it IS.
[09:40] <infinity> I'm about to play.
[09:40] <mbreit> infinity: and i have no chance to find the real problem because i am unable to reproduce it...
[09:41] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, you free?
[09:41] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: yeah
[09:42] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, can you review BreezyReleaseNotes ? I just updated it with the install stuff
[09:42] <ajmitch> ok, will look over it
[09:42] <ajmitch> want me to fix spelling as I go?
[09:43] <mbreit> infinity: in any case, thanks for looking at it!
[09:43] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:43] <daniels> pitti: did you get to that keyboard stuff?
[09:44] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: I wonder if we should mention zope 3.1.0 alongside 2.8.1?
[09:44] <pitti> daniels: argh, sorry, completely forgot about that
[09:44] <pitti> daniels: let's do it right now
[09:45] <daniels> pitti: thanks :)
[09:45] <daniels> pitti: sorry to be a hassle
[09:47] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, it was added nonetheless
[09:48] <jsgotangco> (by doko i believe)
[09:48] <ajmitch> yes
[09:49] <crimsun> made some minor capitalisation corrections to BreezyReleaseNotes
[09:50] <pitti> daniels: I'm doing this now at my ppc, is that right? 
[09:51] <pitti> Hi dho
[09:51] <ajmitch> morning dholbach 
[09:51] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[09:51] <dholbach> hellas andrew, martin
[09:51] <daniels> pitti: yep
[09:53] <\sh> mdz: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16375 <- this issue is fixed in amarok 1.3.3 but I think it's better to backport it after breezy release...my opinion...dunno how do you think about it
[09:56] <pitti> daniels: ok, I installed libxkbfile1 7.0.0-3, and then xkeyboard-config 0.6-6. what now?
[09:57] <daniels> pitti: setxkbmap -print | xkbcomp - :0
[09:58] <pitti> daniels: lots of warnings, shall I email the output to you?
[09:58] <seb128> hey daniels
[09:58] <daniels> pitti: if they're 'no symbols for key <FOO>, ignore it'
[09:58] <seb128> daniels: any xkb crack that needs some testing?
[09:58] <daniels> seb128: represent
[09:58] <daniels> seb128: nothing new, just testing on ppc (kamion asked)
[09:58] <pitti> daniels: also, no symbols for many other prefixes (<K..., <I, and so on)
[09:59] <pitti> daniels: and "Type "ONE_LEVEL" has 1 levels, but <RALT> has 2 symbols"\n Ignoring extra symbols
[09:59] <daniels> pitti: those are fine; the first one is more concerning
[09:59] <daniels> s/first/last/
[09:59] <pitti> daniels: (the last warnign I quoted is actually the first one, in case it matters)
[10:00] <daniels> yeah
[10:00] <daniels> pitti: when did you download 0.6-6?
[10:00] <daniels> pitti: if it wasn't just then, could you please try it again?
[10:00] <pitti> daniels: maybe 5 minutes ago
[10:01] <pitti> daniels: md5sum of the deb starts with 90b829
[10:01] <pitti> erm, 90b820
[10:02] <daniels> hold on a sec
[10:02] <daniels> this is what I have on disk: 8bc3e15c2af8197a8c105b7651679548  xkeyboard-config_0.6-6_all.deb
[10:02] <daniels> seb128: which md5sum do you have?
[10:03] <pitti> daniels: ok, I install the new version
[10:03] <seb128> daniels: ? that's for pitti?
[10:04] <daniels> seb128: no, I'm curious to see which one you got last night
[10:04] <pitti> daniels: still the same output
[10:04] <seb128> daniels: I've dropped the .deb this morning ...
[10:05] <daniels> pitti: please send me the output of setxkbmap -print in /msg
[10:05] <daniels> seb128: okay, thanks
[10:05] <seb128> np :)
[10:06] <pitti> daniels: done
[10:20] <sabdfl> Riddell: ping
[10:21] <sabdfl> Kamion: ping
[10:30] <janimo> pitti, ping
[10:31] <janimo> which lang packs should be included in a base+xfce (no kde/gnome/OOo) install?
[10:31] <Kamion> sabdfl: yes?
[10:33] <pitti> janimo: just the base ones
[10:34] <pitti> janimo: language-pack-XX
[10:34] <janimo> pitti, does that have firefox too?
[10:35] <pitti> janimo: no, ffox has its own locale packages
[10:35] <pitti> janimo: mozilla-firefox-locale-XX
[10:35] <janimo> and how large are the base packs in all languages?
[10:35] <pitti> janimo: the language-support package depend on them, but also on OO.o stuff
[10:36] <janimo> pitti thanks
[10:39] <pitti> janimo: a well translated lang is in the order of 2 MB
[10:42] <janimo> is that the Size: field in apt-cache show?
[10:42] <sivang> Good morning all
[10:43] <janimo> hey sivang
[10:43] <seb128> elmo: kbd sync please
[10:44] <dholbach> Kamion, mdz: how do you think about a ruby1.8 sync to fix #17415? the changelog and the corresponding debdiff are a bit long, but 1) ruby insiders consider it massive breakage, 2) ruby is in main merely as a biuld-dep for redland-bindings and kdebindings, so i'd consider it important enough to do it
[10:44] <dholbach> Kamion: oh, i see that mdz already commented on the bug and doesnt like the idea :(
[10:48] <pitti> janimo: yes
[10:49] <sabdfl> Kamion: what was the name we settled on for the server-oriented iso?
[10:50] <sabdfl> and is that on track?
[10:50] <fabbione> 2ubuntu ?
[10:50] <fabbione> because 1ubuntu was too small ;)
[10:51] <Kamion> sabdfl: I've just labelled it ubuntu-server for now
[10:52] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/1ubuntu/ would just be gratuitously confusing, I think
[10:52] <johnm> I half expected it to go the same way as things like kubuntu. subuntu ;)
[10:52] <sivang> yay for ubuntu-server :)
[10:53] <infinity> one-u-buntu might be less confusing, if you really wanted the catchy name.
[10:53] <Kamion> sabdfl: I did most of the work last night; first cronned build is due to happen at 10:29 today
[10:53] <sabdfl> Kamion: did i ever mention that YOU ROCK!
[10:53] <Kamion> ta :)
[10:53] <Kamion> it wound up being a pretty plausible size for a CD image, actually
[10:54] <Kamion> maybe 15-20MB smaller than our main images
[11:05] <pitti> Kamion: do you have an idea why amd64 live is so much bigger than the other archs?
[11:05] <sabdfl> mdz: ping
[11:05] <sabdfl> does anyone know if there is a draft breezy release announcement?
[11:05] <Treenaks> sabdfl: there is
[11:05] <sabdfl> i see the preview one
[11:05] <sabdfl> and he rc one
[11:06] <Treenaks> sabdfl: oh wait.. the RC one is not the draft for the final one?
[11:06] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[11:06] <Kamion> pitti: not at present
[11:07] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, talk with jsgotangco, he is coordinated that from the doc team side of things
[11:07] <jsgotangco> i've been updating it today
[11:07] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: those are the release notes, not the announcement
[11:07] <sabdfl> jsgotangco: updating it where? can i edit it too please?
[11:08] <jsgotangco> sabdfl, i meant the release notes...
[11:08] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, in that case, it is much too late
[11:08] <jsgotangco> eh?
[11:08] <Burgundavia> night all
[11:09] <pitti> Hi carlos, I missed you :-)
[11:09] <carlos> pitti, Hi
[11:09] <pitti> carlos: did you find the reason for the removals? I'm currently processing today's tarballs
[11:09] <carlos> I'm with the gas installer, it's taking much more time than I expected...
[11:11] <carlos> pitti, the removals are usually removals of msgid and msgstr I'm not completely sure, need to do some extra checks
[11:11] <sabdfl> carlos: please can you set aside some time to bring me up to speed on the langpack status? it's critical for the breezy release
[11:12] <pitti> carlos: for dapper, is it possible to add some checks to the exporter that it never ever removes valid translations?
[11:13] <carlos> pitti, excuse me?
[11:13] <carlos> pitti, those removals are related to .pot files because the msgid is also missing 
[11:14] <pitti> carlos: they are? but I merged my own import with all pot files that rosetta exports
[11:14] <pitti> carlos: is it possible that rosetta exports po files for domains which don't have a pot file?
[11:14] <carlos> sabdfl, well, the fast answer: all things where ok until yesterday's language pack when pitti saw that we were removing some msgids. No code changes done, so I don't have an explanation other than .pot files pending to be imported...
[11:15] <carlos> pitti, no
[11:15] <carlos> pitti, but it's possible that Rosetta exports a .pot file that is not the one currently imported
[11:15] <sabdfl> carlos: have you seen this mornings mail from timo jyrinki?
[11:15] <pitti> carlos: I'm just wondering why it worked so well the last time and now we start to see removals again
[11:15] <carlos> pitti, and as we don't export obsolete messages with language packs the .po files are missing those
[11:16] <pitti> carlos: so you are 100% sure that these are obsolete?
[11:16] <carlos> pitti, I started yesterday a test merging the .pot files too with the .po files exported from Rosetta
[11:16] <pitti> carlos: I will check whether I have a corresponding pot file when I compare the diff
[11:16] <carlos> pitti, but I think your script was not working as expected there (not sure how is possible as it's too simple)
[11:17] <carlos> pitti, no, I'm not 100% sure those are obsolete
[11:17] <carlos> pitti, but it's the only explanation I have for that change without any code change in my side
[11:18] <carlos> as I said, still working on it, but the gas installer is taking too much time this morning and I was not able to resume my work yet
[11:19] <pitti> carlos: ok, I will scrutinize today's diff
[11:19] <carlos> pitti, ok, thans
[11:19] <carlos> thanks
[11:22] <carlos> sabdfl, from the email that Timo Jyrinki sent to the rosetta-user mailing list I see that we have a hard usability problem
[11:23] <carlos> sabdfl, he translated serpentine from the upstream links but he didn't translate it for Breezy, so it's normal that it does not appears in the language pack
[11:23] <sabdfl> bugger
[11:23] <carlos> checking what happens with the other packages
[11:25] <seb128> pitti, Kamion: do you know about #17395 ?
[11:26] <JaneW> hi guys, I am busy proofing the BreezyReleaseNotes, are there any more know issues to be listed in these?
[11:28] <carlos> pitti, seb128, mvo: I'm not sure how python's gettext works... where does it look for the translations?
[11:29] <zyga> carlos: hi
[11:29] <Kamion> seb128: seems a bit like #1291
[11:29] <carlos> zyga, hi
[11:30] <Kamion> don't know what the default ntfs permissions are
[11:30] <seb128> Kamion: I found #1291, but pitti updated it to mention that's a write issue
[11:30] <Kamion> seb128: ... for vfat
[11:30] <Kamion> your bug's about ntfs
[11:30] <seb128> yeah
[11:30] <zyga> carlos: is there any page where I can track stuff language pack, besides the wiki?
[11:30] <carlos> zyga, no, sorry
[11:30] <seb128> Kamion: what is the right place for that? partman?
[11:31] <Kamion> seb128: yes
[11:31] <seb128> Kamion: I'll reassign so, thanks
[11:31] <Kamion> well, partman-basicfilesystems if you want to be specific
[11:31] <pitti> seb128: ntfs has its own permission system, but I don't know about it
[11:31] <Kamion> there's uid= gid= umask= for ntfs mounts
[11:31] <pitti> seb128: it's similar to the "I can't read my UDF cd-rom because files have uid 500"
[11:32] <Kamion> the problem is that partman doesn't know what the first user's uid is going to be
[11:32] <pitti> Kamion: but does these really help?
[11:32] <Kamion> pitti: they're not terribly helpful
[11:32] <pitti> Kamion: in the UDF and hfsplus case, they only help to map uid 0
[11:32] <seb128> in any case an user should be authorized to browser it no?
[11:32] <pitti> (which is a sane thing, but doesn't help in that particular case)
[11:32] <seb128> s/browser/browse/
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: we should not forcefully override permissions of all paritions we see
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: (that would require a kernel patch anyway)
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: but playing around with umask would be worth a try
[11:34] <seb128> pitti: in any case we should not put it on the desktop if it's not browsable
[11:34] <Kamion> TBH I think it's really too late to sort this out for breezy; we get hardly any testing of installer changes at this point, and when we're essentially just trying to hotfix things we don't really understand it makes me scared
[11:34] <seb128> pitti: but that's for 5.10 now anyway
[11:34] <seb128> s/5.10/after 5.10/
[11:34] <Kamion> I think it's the desktop's responsibility to figure out what it should/shouldn't display :-)
[11:35] <Kamion> the installer's just arranging for it to be mounted ...
[11:35] <seb128> Kamion: is there any installer update planned (I could use a string fix)?
[11:35] <Kamion> seb128: no more string fixes
[11:35] <seb128> k
[11:35] <Kamion> there will be some small installer changes but only really critical stuff
[11:35] <Kamion> I need to figure out why oem-config isn't displaying any translations
[11:35] <Kamion> if it's a fix to a string that's translated in Debian too, best get it upstream
[11:36] <Mirv> carlos: (i'm timo jyrinki) the translations are missing also for eg. language-selector and gnome-system-tools (disks part), that were part of breezy. I couldn't find breezy version of serpentine template, but most other were done under the breezy
[11:37] <carlos> Mirv, hi
[11:37] <carlos> Mirv, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/serpentine/+pots/serpentine
[11:38] <pitti> infinity: I'm afraid iI need your help again
[11:38] <seb128> Kamion: k, because the LVM menu item from partman is a bit long so you get the device name cut, but that's not a big deal
[11:38] <pitti> infinity: courier failed to build on adare due to the old procps install failure
[11:38] <pitti> infinity: "error: 'dev.mac_hid.mouse_button_emulation' is an unknown key" and so on
[11:38] <infinity> Ugh.  warty?
[11:39] <pitti> infinity: yes w-security
[11:39] <infinity> I need to get elmo to build those into the kernel until we stop supporting warty..
[11:39] <Mirv> carlos: what about the rest of the problem? are you looking at it?
[11:39] <seb128> pitti: have you done any dia upload to hoary?
[11:39] <pitti> yay, new bzr!
[11:39] <infinity> pitti : I'll kick it manually in a second.
[11:39] <carlos> Mirv, yeah
[11:40] <pitti> seb128: yes, yesterday AFAIK
[11:40] <seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17521
[11:40] <carlos> pitti, what tarball did you use for the language pack?
[11:40] <pitti> well, not yesterday, but recently
[11:40] <pitti> carlos: for which one?
[11:40] <Mirv> (and serpentine wasn't found mainly because it's not in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/ list, the same problem as with some other packages earlier)
[11:40] <seb128> pitti: that's a standard arch all/any out of sync?
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: yes, easy
[11:41] <carlos> pitti, latest one
[11:41] <seb128> pitti: k, thanks
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: he needs hoary-universe security updates
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: dia is universe, dia-gnome and dia-common are main
[11:42] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I've asked for some details, I was thinking the same
[11:42] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[11:42] <pitti> carlos: 20050929 AFAIK
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: shall I answer? If you do, just suggest him to install dia-gnome :-)
[11:43] <carlos> pitti, ok, thanks
[11:44] <Mirv> carlos: as a sidenote; serpentine was now also imported to the breezy version - nice to see upload working so nicely nowadays.
[11:44] <seb128> pitti: I've replied, thanks
[11:44] <carlos> Mirv, cool
[11:44] <sabdfl> mjg59: ping
[11:45] <sabdfl> daniels: ping
[11:45] <daniels> sabdfl: 'evening
[11:46] <Kamion> seb128: ok, that's Ubuntu-specific
[11:46] <sabdfl> daniels: quitting the X server seems to put X into a catatonic state
[11:46] <sabdfl> am using fglrx, kde and kdm
[11:46] <sabdfl> not sure where the issue is
[11:46] <sabdfl> how to debug?
[11:47] <daniels> sabdfl: if you could mount the partition containing /var with 'sync', so you get a full Xorg.0.log and dmesg, that would probably be handy; that is, if it's an error
[11:48] <daniels> if it's just fglrx failing to set the card up right when it exits, then there's not much I can do other than to just pass it up to ATI
[11:48] <sabdfl> it doesn't hang the box
[11:48] <sabdfl> i can still ssh into it
[11:48] <daniels> oh, okay
[11:48] <sabdfl> has fglrx changed recently?
[11:48] <daniels> does the tail of Xorg.0.log show a clean exit rather than a crash?
[11:48] <sabdfl> can i isolate it down to X or Kdm easily?
[11:48] <daniels> we took a new upstream version ... maybe a month ago?
[11:48] <daniels> it won't be kde or kdm; if it tanks the display on exit, then that's wholly fglrx's fault
[11:49] <sabdfl> well, Kdm doesn't respond to -HUP
[11:49] <daniels> is Xorg stil running?
[11:49] <daniels> if so, it could well still be waiting on a child server
[11:50] <daniels> also, maybe HUP just reloads the config file; does it respond to other signals?
[11:52] <sabdfl> daniels: yes, xorg was still running
[11:52] <sabdfl> can i start up to maintainer mode, then just startx?
[11:53] <daniels> sabdfl: you can just sudo Xorg :0 -ac vt7, if you like
[11:53] <daniels> then ctrl-alt-backspace it and see if it dies cleanly
[11:53] <sabdfl> ok, will try that and report
[11:54] <mjg59> a
[11:55] <mjg59> Hrm
[11:55] <mjg59> sabdfl: Hi
[12:04] <Kamion> infinity: I'm thinking an amd64 live filesystem reset might be a good idea shortly, to clear out any cruft; it's large
[12:05] <Kamion> or seems excessively large, anyhow
[12:05] <Kamion> is there any way to see how much wasted space there is there?
[12:06] <infinity> lamont just reset it 3 or 4 days ago, has it been growing?
[12:08] <Kamion> infinity: it's hard to tell, because there's been churn. I've been removing stuff from desktop to try to make things fit; does that need a reset to really be effective?
[12:08] <mvo> carlos: do you still need that python gettext information? it does basicly the same as the (original) gettext patch in glibc
[12:09] <pitti> mvo: oh, does it still compare timestamps?
[12:09] <infinity> Kamion : Quite possibly.  I'm not well-versed in the ways of the rest, but I do have some handy instructions here.  I can play right after I make/eat dinner.
[12:09] <carlos> mvo, ok, so you are 100% sure that will get the .mo files from language packs, right?
[12:09] <infinity> Kamion : If I get back to you in a couple of hours with some numbers (and a reset cloop), is that soon enough?
[12:10] <mvo> pitti: yes
[12:10] <Kamion> infinity: yep, that's fine, plenty of other stuff I can be doing in the meantime
[12:10] <pitti> mvo: *shudder*
[12:10] <mvo> carlos: well, if the patch wasn't ripped out then yes
[12:10] <pitti> mvo: for dapper we should sanitize it to match the current libc patch
[12:10] <mvo> pitti: fine with me
[12:11] <carlos> mvo, ok, thanks for the info
[12:11] <mvo> pitti: the new one is the one with caching support?
[12:11] <pitti> mvo: and without stat()
[12:11] <pitti> mvo: it just prefers a file in /u/s/locale if it exists
[12:11] <pitti> mvo: and falls back to /u/s/locale-langpack otherwise
[12:12] <pitti> mvo: and uses libc's internal caching
[12:12] <zyga> pitti: hmm why was stat needed in the first place, to know which file to pick?
[12:12] <pitti> zyga: yes, for hoary, when we did not strip all the packages yet
[12:12] <mvo> carlos: I'm apt-get sourceing python now to have a look. do you have a test-case where python gettext fails for you?
[12:13] <carlos> mvo, no, I'm just asking, I was not sure if python was patched
[12:13] <zyga> pitti: so now packages never contain .mo files, right?
[12:13] <pitti> zyga: main packages don't, right
[12:13] <carlos> mvo, what about the applications like zope that have a different layout than the other gettext applications?
[12:13] <pitti> zyga: universe packages do
[12:13] <zyga> pitti: k :)
[12:14] <zyga> pitti: is there any change in rosetta-breezy.tar.gz export process?
[12:14] <pitti> zyga: the point was, if you build a package locally, you will get translations in /u/s/locale, and they should be used
[12:14] <pitti> zyga: not recently
[12:14] <mvo> carlos: I don't know about zope, but it sounds pretty bad if it has a different layout then any other gettext app 
[12:15] <zyga> pitti: what is missing? you said it only catches about 40% of the total number of translations in rosetta
[12:15] <mvo> carlos: it seems to work for our various python desktop apps (language-selector, update-manager etc)
[12:15] <pitti> zyga: right, that will be fixed in the near future
[12:15] <zyga> pitti: I've got some progress on my side but nothing spectacular yet
[12:15] <carlos> mvo, they store the .mo files inside their own tree and I think they use directly es/zope.mo
[12:16] <carlos> mvo, ok, thank you for the check
[12:17] <mvo> carlos: I'm happy to have a look at zope after the release (please remind me)
[12:22] <carlos> ok
[12:22] <carlos> thanks
[12:25] <daniels> seb128: what's the usual remedy for 'my desktop is fucked'?
[12:25] <daniels> seb128: couldn't log in before, everything was hanging
[12:25] <Treenaks> daniels: ifup lo
[12:25] <Treenaks> that usually fixes hanging logins for me
[12:25] <daniels> seb128: started a new xterm session, started gnome-panel, gnome-settings-daemon, nautilus, by hand; g-p was useless until I killed the old one by hand, nautilus just crashed then
[12:26] <daniels> but most everything else (started metacity by hand) works okay
[12:26] <daniels> to add to the hilarity, I've been stuffing around with XKB locally, and that had broken VT switching for me
[12:26] <daniels> Treenaks: ah, thanks
[12:26] <daniels> isn't hotplug supposed to do that, or is that too boring for it to be doing in a release week?
[12:27] <seb128> daniels: yeah, you need to have a working loopback
[12:27] <seb128> daniels: did you run dhclient?
[12:28] <daniels> i just started doing dhclient for my wlan, yeah
[12:28] <daniels> bad idea?
[12:28] <daniels> okay, that fixed things -- thanks
[12:28] <seb128> daniels: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10174
[12:29] <daniels> ungh, firefox sessionsaver rocks
[12:30] <daniels> mjg59: we should really switch to a VT around S3 on Intel hardware
[12:30] <daniels> mjg59: else the next use of Xv tanks the engine
[12:30] <daniels> mjg59: in a you-must-reboot kind of way
[12:31] <daniels> seb128: thanks for the link
[12:37] <mjg59> daniels: We do
[12:37] <daniels> mjg59: hrm
[12:38] <daniels> i wonder if POSTing it breaks things
[12:39] <mjg59> daniels: I'm using xv here
[12:39] <CaiN_SA> charles you here ?
[12:39] <mjg59> No problem at all
[12:43] <daniels> mjg59: are you POSTing?
[12:45] <pitti> infinity: courier on warty-security/ppc still seems to hate me :-(
[12:48] <daniels> fucking xkb can bite me
[12:49] <pitti> bah, I get the gnome/X keyboard dialog even on a fresh breezy install
[12:53] <Kinnison> Hi guys
[12:54] <Riddell> sabdfl: pong
[12:54] <Kinnison> Can I have everyone's attention for a moment please.
[12:54] <Kinnison> As you are all (hopefully) aware; dapper will be opening on Launchpad (assuming we don't have any hideous problems)
[12:54] <Kinnison> As a result, you all need to ensure that, 1. you have launchpad accounts
[12:55] <Kinnison> and 2. you have your GPG keys registered with launchpad
[12:55] <Kinnison> Thank you
[12:55] <pitti> Kinnison: will there be a special upload tool for launchpad?
[12:55] <ogra> Kinnison, so we'll switch officially to maolne on friday too ? 
[12:55] <pitti> Kinnison: or will uploading to upload.ubuntu.com work as usual?
[12:55] <mjg59> daniels: Yes
[12:56] <Kinnison> pitti: uploading will be done by FTP as usual
[12:56] <daniels> mjg59: arsing shit
[12:56] <daniels> Kinnison: i have a question
[12:56] <Kamion> Kinnison: would you mind sending instructions to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com, for those who aren't here?
[12:56] <Kinnison> Kamion: I'll do that, yes
[12:56] <Kamion> thanks
[12:56] <daniels> Kinnison: how do you represent <center><h1><font color="red">A system error has occurred.</font></h1></center> in text, if we're just going to be using an FTP client?
[12:56] <crimsun> Kinnison: I can't upload my gpg key (via fingerprint) to launchpad. It explodes with a system error.
[12:57] <Kinnison> daniels: Hah, you think the FTP server runs in zope?
[12:57] <Kinnison> crimsun: then it's essential that you work with the launchpad team to get that fixed
[12:57] <Kinnison> crimsun: please see them on #launchpad
[12:57] <mvo> ha! worked for me
[12:57] <daniels> Kinnison: dude, if this Launchpad meme spreads any further, the kernel will be modified to run on Zope, and all the Ubuntu installs will use it
[12:59] <ogra> daniels, wasnt that planned anyway, after the kernel was rewritten in python ? 
[01:00] <ogra> i think then you'll need a slim replacement for thttpd anyway :)
[01:12] <segfault> ogra: ping
[01:12] <ogra> segfault, ponmg
[01:13] <segfault> ogra: i updated the xscreensaver po file in Rosetta, can you try using that one?
[01:13] <ogra> i'll try... sadly it always generates iso-8859-1 files for pt_BR ... :/
[01:14] <segfault> should be using UTF-8 now. 
[01:14] <seb128> jbailey: around?
[01:14] <ogra> oh, ok
[01:14] <segfault> if that doesn't wok, i can send you the po file by mail
[01:14] <ogra> segfault, i'll have a meeting soon and have to prepare something for that, i'll check it out now, but it will take a moment before i can get to it
[01:15] <segfault> ogra: no problem, good meeting :)
[01:15] <ogra> thanks...
[01:16] <ogra> feel free to attend if you got nothing better to do ;)
[01:22] <Kamion> infinity: I've approved your festival change. #17275 should be closed now, yes?
[01:24] <Kamion> Riddell: your diversions handling in kubuntu-docs looks completely wrong to me
[01:24] <Kamion> Riddell: remember that diversions persist across versions, so there's nothing wrong with a diversion still being there when the preinst runs
[01:25] <\sh> Riddell: it was mine...I'd took it from another package
[01:25] <\sh> aeh Kamion i mean
[01:26] <segfault> heh, ok
[01:26] <nomed> hi all
[01:26] <nomed> just a question .. i have this string in debconf: xserver-xorg/autodetect_keyboard: true
[01:27] <Kamion> \sh, Riddell: please just drop all that and just call 'dpkg-divert --package kubuntu-docs --add --rename --divert /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index-ubuntu.html /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html'
[01:27] <Kamion> dpkg-divert will do nothing (silently, if you also use --quiet) if the diversion is already there
[01:27] <Kamion> none of the dpkg-divert --list stuff is necessary
[01:27] <\sh> Kamion: ok...I'll change it just now..ok for upload then?
[01:28] <Kamion> \sh, Riddell: also, you should only call dpkg-divert 'if [ "$1" = install ] '
[01:28] <nomed> but it seems during dpkg-reconfigure -fnoninteractive xserver-xorg it can't set the keyboard .. this in breezy .. in hoary it was working 
[01:28] <Kamion> no, sorry, 'if [ "$1" = install ]  || [ "$1" = upgrade ] '
[01:28] <\sh> Kamion: fixing 
[01:29] <Kamion> (because the preinst is also called in the abort-upgrade case)
[01:29] <\sh> Kamion: what about postrm?
[01:29] <Kamion> \sh: the postrm's fine except that [ == ]  is a bashism; use = instead of == there
[01:30] <\sh> k
[01:30] <\sh> oh well...
[01:30] <\sh> why don't I get kubuntu-docs_5.10-0.4 from the archives?
[01:31] <Kamion> \sh: there's also a stray kubuntu-docs_5.10-0.4_i386.build in the source package
[01:31] <Kamion> \sh: because I haven't approved it
[01:31] <\sh> Kamion: grmpf...i need the source package :(
[01:32] <\sh> or wait for riddel to fix it
[01:32] <segfault> is anyone looking into that "About Ubuntu" missing link?
[01:32] <Kamion> \sh: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/kubuntu-docs/
[01:32] <\sh> thx
[01:33] <Kamion> segfault: jbailey's assigned to it
[01:33] <segfault> ok
[01:33] <\sh> Kamion: can I upload with the same version again, oder version +0.1?
[01:34] <Kamion> \sh: no, you can't; increase the version
[01:34] <\sh> k
[01:36] <Kamion> infinity: does SUBSTing into a Default: field the way nagios-common.config does actually work, anyway? I didn't think debconf did subst expansion on Default
[01:36] <Kamion> infinity: I'll approve it anyway, since it's not going to do any harm if I'm right
[01:38] <\sh> Kamion: uploaded...thx for the hints :)
[01:41] <Kamion> \sh: did you test this? I suspect not
[01:41] <Kamion> +if [ "$1" = "install"]  || [ "$1" = "upgrade" ] ; then
[01:41] <Kamion> \sh: note the missing space before ] 
[01:42] <\sh> *grrr* vim
[01:42] <\sh> and grrr my space key
[01:42] <Kamion> don't blame your editor for lack of testing
[01:45] <\sh> Kamion: just doing what my son is doing every time he's smashing a glas accidently..it's the tables fault
[01:47] <siretart> hint: piuparts is great for having this automated..
[01:50] <Kinnison> siretart: heck, debuild && sudo debi is a good start
[01:51] <infinity> Kamion : Erm, oh.  Did I miss fucking with the template too?
[01:56] <pitti> infinity: hm, still no ppc build for courier warty-security - is that a buildd problem or does the pacakge merely need a g-b?
[01:58] <hno73> Kamion: you've got a new AMD64 tarball, sans thunderbird and ~6.5MB smaller
[01:58] <dholbach> bbl
[02:00] <zyga> pitti: ping
[02:00] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[02:01] <zyga> pitti: hi, I'm hacking the language pack thing and I'm wondering how does rosetta handle broken .po files, I've noticed that many many .po files have things that msgfmt -c chokes on
[02:01] <pitti> carlos: ^ ?
[02:02] <carlos> zyga, on import or on export?
[02:02] <zyga> carlos: on export
[02:02] <pitti> carlos: ideally, there would not be broken po files in the database, thus not on export either :-)
[02:02] <zyga> carlos: I'm using exported catalogs I fetch from pitty
[02:03] <carlos> zyga, we still have some pofiles that needs some migration done but usually we validate translations on import time or submission time from the website
[02:04] <zyga> carlos: how do you validate them?
[02:04] <carlos> zyga, as we still have some data to migrate, on export time those are exported as fuzzy (when my patch lands on production)
[02:04] <carlos> zyga, using gettext's library
[02:04] <zyga> carlos: is that something different from what msgfmt is using
[02:04] <zyga> carlos: I can show you how many errors I've got if you are interested
[02:05] <carlos> zyga, no, it's the same
[02:05] <carlos> zyga, it depends how do you got the pofile
[02:05] <carlos> zyga, if it's part of the language pack, it should validate
[02:06] <zyga> carlos: ask pitty :) I'm fetching http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/rosetta-breezy.tar.gz
[02:06] <carlos> zyga, http://mawson.ubuntu.com/~carlos/
[02:06] <carlos> those are latest language packs
[02:07] <carlos> hmm
[02:07] <carlos> but that one smells like the latest one
[02:07] <zyga> carlos: who is exporting them?
[02:07] <zyga> carlos: pitty's archive is updated daily
[02:07] <carlos> zyga, pitti didn't tell me anything about msgfmt failing....
[02:08] <carlos> zyga, pitti's archive come from that URL
[02:08] <zyga> carlos: it's failing for me
[02:08] <carlos> zyga, could you show me an example?
[02:09] <zyga> carlos: check this out, it's not compleate though: http://www.suxx.pl/ubuntu/language-packs/
[02:09] <Kamion> infinity: no, the template was like that before you touched it (and messing with it wouldn't make any difference without more invasive changes, so I'm fine with what we have now for breezy)
[02:10] <Kamion> hno73: thanks!
[02:10] <carlos> zyga, don't use -c
[02:11] <zyga> carlos: :-)
[02:11] <carlos> zyga, those errors are because most of the PO header are fuzzy
[02:11] <zyga> heh
[02:11] <zyga> I'll patch header fuziness and try again
[02:11] <zyga> or better
[02:12] <zyga> use --check-format 
[02:12] <carlos> zyga, msgfmt does that check by default
[02:12] <zyga> okay, cool
[02:13] <zyga> thanks, I'm back to hacking
[02:14] <zoot_> ogra: hi, if you have a moment, please pop-in on #ltsp for a sec?
[02:14] <HiddenWolf> mvo, ping
[02:14] <\sh_away> Kamion: tested now...works fine.
[02:15] <zyga> pitti_live: did you concider using qemu to test the live cd?
[02:16] <pitti_live> zyga: I tried qemu once, but first it is nontrivial to set up, second, I'm not sure whether it supports amd64, and third, I want to test the true experience, not a simulated environment
[02:16] <pitti_live> zyga: does qemu work well for that?
[02:17] <zyga> pitti_live: I haven't tested that but AFAIR it does support both amd64 and ppc 
[02:17] <zyga> pitti_live: nontrivial? qemu -cdrom foo.iso
[02:17] <mvo> HiddenWolf: pong
[02:17] <pitti_live> zyga: hm, last time I tried it it fell apart into pieces
[02:17] <pitti_live> zyga: maybe it got better now
[02:18] <zyga> pitti_live: I've been using it lately to test live cds I've been building - it's quite usefull
[02:18] <pitti_live> zyga: but thanks for the hint! will try that
[02:18] <HiddenWolf> mvo, how trivial would it be to patch gksudo to grey out it's 'continue' button when no password is entered?
[02:18] <zyga> pitti_live: for extra hardcore experience - try it now ;D
[02:18] <pitti_live> zyga: qemu on the live CD?
[02:18] <zyga> HiddenWolf: quite :)
[02:18] <zyga> pitti_live: why not
[02:19] <mvo> HiddenWolf: good question, shouldn't be very hard but it's still something I would feel uneasy about so short to the release
[02:19] <zyga> pitti_live: just apt-get install it :)
[02:20] <HiddenWolf> mvo, just put it on the shortlist, it's kinda dumb to pop up a "you did not enter a password, and gksudo needs it" dialog. :)
[02:21] <zyga> HiddenWolf: does gksu works if user has no password?
[02:21] <mvo> zyga: no
[02:21] <mvo> zyga: qemu looks really nice
[02:21] <pitti_live> zyga: it doesn't have amd64, but powerpc
[02:21] <HiddenWolf> Can you get a useraccount without a password?
[02:22] <Kamion> last I looked its powerpc emulation was PReP only
[02:22] <Kamion> but that might have changed
[02:22] <zyga> HiddenWolf: you can disable the password with passwd -d
[02:23] <pitti_live> zyga: I started it with the i386 live image, and it indeed does something :)
[02:23] <zyga> pitti_live: tip: ctrl+alt+f for fullscreen
[02:29] <zyga> carlos: there are some residual errors 
[02:29] <zyga> carlos: default CHARSET as charset, or non-portable charsets (windows stuff mostly)
[02:30] <carlos> zyga, yeah, please, file a bug
[02:30] <carlos> I suppose that the best solution would be to export it as UTF-8
[02:30] <zyga> carlos: a bug?
[02:30] <zyga> carlos: where, to the original project?
[02:30] <zyga> carlos: I agree about utf-8
[02:30] <carlos> well, it's not a problem with Rosetta but someone uploading a broken pofile
[02:31] <zyga> all non utf-8 stuff should DIE unless we invent something better than utf-8 
[02:31] <carlos> zyga, no, against Rosetta so we fix those files
[02:31] <carlos> zyga, see you later, time to have lunch
[02:31] <zyga> okay
[02:34] <mdke> Kamion, around?
[02:35] <Kamion> mdke: yes?
[02:35] <mdke> Kamion, pvt
[02:35] <\sh_away> grmpf
[02:37] <zyga> hno73: ping
[02:39] <pitti_live> zyga: I'm impressed - I run a i386 live image in qemu on top of an amd64 live system 
[02:39] <zyga> pitti_live: how is performance? how much ram do you have?
[02:39] <pitti_live> zyga: if my mouse would actually work in that system, it would be perfect :-)
[02:40] <zyga> pitti_live: tip: alt+ctrl over the emulator window
[02:40] <zyga> (this will transfer the mouse)
[02:40] <pitti_live> zyga: I know
[02:40] <pitti_live> zyga: -> #ubuntu
[02:40] <hno73> zyga: pong
[02:40] <zyga> hno73: hi, IIRC you are responsible for the wiki.ubuntu.com
[02:41] <hno73> zyga: yes
[02:41] <zyga> hno73: I've told you about a trivial error in the search result page (for polish) recently, do you remember?
[02:41] <zyga> hno73: I was wondering if I should file a bug about that :)
[02:42] <hno73> zyga: you can write it up here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/wiki/BugReports
[02:42] <zyga> hno73: okay, thanks
[02:45] <pitti_live> sivang: brb, booting back to my normal system
[02:46] <da_bon_bon> does ubuntus hibernate unmount all disk drives before hibernating ?
[02:48] <zyga> hno73: done
[02:48] <zyga> hno73: that bug seems trivial if you are interested in fixing it now ;-)
[02:50] <JaneW> Guys please read the BreezyReleaseNotes, and add any more know issues which need to be listed in these. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[02:51] <zyga> carlos: full log, some more less critical things that should not have been imported are around too: http://www.suxx.pl/ubuntu/language-packs/
[02:51] <zyga> pitti: ^
[02:52] <hno73> zyga: thanks. I don't think now is a good time though, with various release-related things up in the air
[02:52] <zyga> hno73: sure
[02:54] <da_bon_bon> why does hibernate on ubuntu blank the screen ? that way, people like me, who donot use acpi cant know when to switch of the computer.
[03:35] <HiddenWolf> Guys, my firefox is messed up badly
[03:36] <HiddenWolf> Could that be todays upgrade?
[03:36] <fabbione> messed up how?
[03:36] <HiddenWolf> no menus
[03:36] <fabbione> no
[03:37] <fabbione> there was only a CFLAGS option changed
[03:37] <HiddenWolf> I'll investigate.
[03:38] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: did you exit/restart firefox after the upgrade?
[03:38] <fabbione> (btw it works here)
[03:39] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks, i'll give it a reboot in a minute.
[03:39] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: no, just firefox
[03:39] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: not the entire machine
[03:40] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks, kernel upgrade too, might as well do the machine. :)
[03:40] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks, seven vunerabilities yesterday, remember. :)
[03:40] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: not in breezy
[03:40] <fabbione> read the changelog
[03:41] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, must've cleaned thunderbird out already, i'll believe you on your word. :)
[03:42] <bddebian> Hello
[03:44] <dholbach> re
[03:44] <Kamion> oh crap, that debconf-copydb templatedb translation handling bug has come back to bite me with oem-config
[03:51] <zyga> JaneW: ping
[03:51] <JaneW> zyga: pong
[03:51] <zyga> JaneW: regarding BreezyReleaseNotes
[03:52] <JaneW> zyga: yes
[03:52] <zyga> how about adding a FAQ: where did the terminal from the desktop context menu go
[03:52] <zyga> my friedns keep asking for this after recent upgrade
[03:52] <zyga> (it's in the nautilus extension stuff AFAIR)
[03:52] <Kamion> zyga: there's already a FAQ entry for that
[03:52] <Lathiat> yeh, nautilus-open-terminal package
[03:53] <Kamion>  Where did the Terminal go?
[03:53] <Kamion>     *
[03:53] <Kamion>       Not on the desktop context menu anymore. Install nautilus-open-terminal if you want it.
[03:53] <zyga> ...
[03:53] <zyga> sorry I did read that but I've missed the n-o-t part somehow
[03:53] <Lathiat> tahts not the best description
[03:53] <Lathiat> (question)
[03:54] <JaneW> zyga: that's in BreezyReleaseNotes already
[03:54] <JaneW> ditto what kamion said...
[03:54] <zyga> JaneW: right, sorry
[03:54] <JaneW> np :)
[03:56] <Diziet> Curse gs and it's strange half-reopening and half-closing of the x11 driver.
[03:57] <Diziet> s/it's/its/; # and curse my speling two
[03:57] <zyga> carlos: ping
[03:57] <Seveas> elmo, Kamion, sabdfl, mako, *ping* CC meeting in 3 minutes :)
[03:58] <Kamion> oh god, such a bad time
[03:58] <Kamion> ok
[03:58] <dieman> nice
[03:58] <ogra> oh, there is CC meeting now ? 
[03:58] <dieman> the new .htaccess broke my mirror
[03:58] <dieman> oh well
[03:58] <carlos> zyga, pong
[03:58] <zyga> carlos: nautilus-open-terminal/rosetta/where/question/execute
[03:58] <Kamion> dieman: which new .htaccess?
[03:59] <zyga> carlos: according to mapping.txt it should have separate domain
[03:59] <dieman> Kamion: there were some RedirectTemp entries for ubuntu-releases
[03:59] <carlos> zyga, nautilus-open-terminal/rosetta/where/question/execute ?
[04:00] <Kamion> dieman: right, yeah, I added those 'cos I moved the source off releases back onto cdimage
[04:00] <zyga> carlos: also, re-checked current .po exports with less-strict checks and msgfmt still chokes on some of them, is that okay (since they were alredy imported and had to go through verification)
[04:00] <dieman> Kamion: i didn't have the allowoverrides set to allow those,
[04:00] <dieman> not a huge deal
[04:00] <Kamion> fair enough
[04:00] <dieman> but all the sudden it stopped working :)
[04:01] <zyga> carlos: rosetta doesn't contain nautilus-terminal-open according to search from the main page
[04:01] <Kamion> did you spell it right? you didn't just now ...
[04:01] <Lathiat> nautilus-open-terminal
[04:01] <carlos> zyga, which sourcepackage contains it?
[04:02] <zyga> carlos: n-o-t
[04:02] <carlos> LaschW, thanks
[04:02] <carlos> s/LaschW/Lathiat/
[04:02] <carlos> zyga, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/nautilus-open-terminal/+pots/nautilus-open-terminal
[04:02] <zyga> hmmmm
[04:02] <pitti> Kamion: do we care enough about sparc to warrant a postgresql-8.0 upload which uses gcc-3.3 on sparc? (#17507)
[04:02] <pitti> fabbione: ^ 
[04:02] <janimo> Kamion, can I branch the public ubuntu seed archive locally for xubuntu?
[04:02] <zyga> carlos: then why did searching for it fail?
[04:02] <Kamion> janimo: certainly; see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement for info there
[04:03] <Kamion> janimo: that's what I was going to suggest you do, in fact, as soon as I got time to reply to you
[04:03] <fabbione> pitti: is that required to make it working? 
[04:03] <fabbione> pitti: up to you really.. i have spare cpu cycles to build...
[04:03] <pitti> fabbione: yes, otherwise it just plainly fails
[04:03] <Kamion> janimo: you should also play around with germinate (in breezy)
[04:03] <fabbione> pitti: if you can get it in, the better
[04:03] <pitti> fabbione: it's a simple workaround I already tested in Debian
[04:03] <janimo> Kamion, so no chinstrap account and things like that?
[04:03] <Kamion> pitti: not unless an upload is needed for another reason, I think
[04:03] <Kamion> janimo: no
[04:04] <pitti> Kamion: no, on the primary arches it works fine
[04:04] <janimo> I'll have to ask jblack or lifeless for a place to publish my changes though
[04:04] <Kamion> that's only if you need to commit to the Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu seeds
[04:04] <Kamion> janimo: surely you have some web space somewhere?
[04:04] <pitti> Kamion: the upload would not change anything on the primary arches, though
[04:04] <fabbione> pitti: it's ok.. we will cope with it on dapper
[04:04] <pitti> fabbione: alright
[04:04] <janimo> Kamion, other than a sourceforge account not right now
[04:04] <fabbione> pitti: thanks a lot for looking into it
[04:04] <janimo> will get some though don't worry
[04:06] <carlos> zyga, because the sourcepackage search form does not contain any data
[04:06] <carlos> zyga, it will be fixed soon
[04:07] <zyga> carlos: right, thanks :-)
[04:08] <carlos> zyga, if you know the sourcepackage name will work if you add it by hand, sorry for this usability problem, hope it will be fixed soon
[04:14] <zyga> barf
[04:14] <zyga> anyone know how the hell does msggrep works...
[04:15] <zyga> eg: msggrep -K foo bar.po 
[04:15] <Kamion> -K -E foo
[04:15] <Kamion> ?
[04:15] <Kamion> er, -e
[04:15] <zyga> I want to find 'foo' in msgid in bar.po
[04:15] <Kamion> I think I usually have to give it -e or -f
[04:15] <Kamion> so 'msggrep -K -e foo bar.po'
[04:15] <zyga> hmm
[04:16] <Kamion> that's what the --help says if you read it VERY carefully
[04:16] <zyga> manpage is broken
[04:16] <zyga> ;)
[04:16] <zyga> lacks 'EXAMPLES' section
[04:16] <zyga> Kamion: Message selection:
[04:16] <zyga>   [-N SOURCEFILE] ... [-M DOMAINNAME] ...
[04:16] <zyga>   [-K MSGID-PATTERN]  [-T MSGSTR-PATTERN]  [-C COMMENT-PATTERN] 
[04:17] <zyga> -K pattern -- that is wrong according to real life 
[04:17] <Kamion> MSGID-PATTERN or MSGSTR-PATTERN or COMMENT-PATTERN syntax:
[04:17] <Kamion>   [-E | -F]  [-e PATTERN | -f FILE] ...
[04:17] <zyga> ah
[04:17] <Kamion> therefore [-K MSGID-PATTERN]  => [-K [-E | -F]  [-e PATTERN | -f FILE] ] 
[04:17] <Kamion> not really obvious, but ...
[04:17] <zyga> only GNU people read help files like that
[04:18] <zyga> thanks Kamion :)
[04:20] <zyga> s/read/write/
[04:27] <zyga> it's useless for checking .pot files
[04:38] <zyga> carlos: is there any plan to change the way long long messages are displayed?
[04:39] <zyga> carlos: currently it is very difficult to translate long messages as the translator needs to scroll back and forth to read both texts
[04:40] <carlos> zyga, any suggestion is welcomed, we don't have any solution for that atm
[04:42] <Riddell> mjg59: who made the ubuntu usplash image?
[04:42] <zyga> carlos: since horizontal space is very limited this is difficult
[04:42] <carlos> yeah
[04:42] <zyga> carlos: is it possible to include the contents of both columns as a box atop the page
[04:43] <zyga> so that translations can use all the horizontal space below?
[04:43] <zyga> (hint: this way we could fit a two column interface there)
[04:43] <carlos> zyga, talk with mpt at #launchpad, he's our UI expert
[04:43] <zyga> carlos: ok
[04:46] <zyga> mvo: ping, if busy respond with pong-busy
[04:46] <zyga> (low importance)
[04:50] <infinity> pitti : Build fixed/rescued.
[04:51] <pitti> infinity: thanks
[04:51] <mvo> zyga: pong-busy
[04:51] <mvo> zyga:what is it about?
[04:52] <zyga> mvo: missing patch for update-manager CVS, nothing important really
[04:53] <mvo> zyga: ok
[05:01] <seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17540
[05:01] <pitti> seb128: yep, I'm on it
[05:01] <seb128> pitti: k, just to make you know
[05:01] <pitti> seb128: the current Rosetta export is a mess, I need to clean it up
[05:05] <mvo> pitti: I got a similar report today (just FYI)
[05:06] <pitti> yesyesyes, I'm working as fast as I can
[05:07] <Diziet> kamion: I think I have a fix for at least half of 17141 (strange gs crashes).
[05:07] <Diziet> (on oofice pdf's)
[05:08] <Diziet> I've been investigating with gs-gpl.  Should I (a) port my fix to gs-esp and upload both straight away or (b) wait until I think I know what the second problem is (pdf2ps fails if you use gs-esp but not otherwise) or (c) something else ?
[05:09] <ogra> Kamion, ping
[05:09] <Kamion> Diziet: how long do you think (b)'s likely to take?
[05:09] <Kamion> ogra: pong
[05:10] <ogra> Kamion, can you make todays edubuntu daily a RC ? i tested on amd64 and i386... seems fine for me
[05:10] <Kamion> ogra: I'm working on utterly scarily critical stuff right now, but if I get done with that, yes
[05:11] <Diziet> kamion: I don't know yet, I had been assuming they were the same bug and I haven't looked at the 2nd half yet.
[05:11] <Kamion> Diziet: we're rapidly running out of time, so I'd say (a), if (b)'s as yet uninvestigated
[05:11] <ogra> Kamion, thanks... its not urgent, bureaucracy only anyway :)
[05:11] <Diziet> When is out of time ?
[05:12] <Diziet> In about 15 mins I'll know whether (b) is trivial or nontrivial.
[05:12] <Kamion> you certainly have 15 minutes
[05:12] <Diziet> :-)
[05:12] <Kamion> 'cos I'm not going to have oem-config fixed within that time :)
[05:19] <Keybuk> ...who knows about pcmcia-cs ?
[05:20] <Keybuk> most of the modules seem to be missing from /lib/modules/.../drivers/pcmcia
[05:22] <Diziet> kamion: the crash is in a freeing routine and the first thing valgrind spots is in the garbage collector.  I think it might be best to punt.  gs-gpl and pdftops (from xpdf) both work fine.
[05:23] <spayne> sabdfl: ping
[05:24] <Kamion> Diziet: all right
[05:26] <Diziet> I'll go and fight these nightmare patch systems to prepare a pair of uploads.
[05:31] <pitti> Diziet: does that have anything to do with the bug that ps2pdf cannot convert postscript produced by latex or firefox? (missing fonts)
[05:33] <Diziet> I doubt it.
[05:34] <Diziet> The symptoms from these pdfs is that gs-esp eats a lot of ram and then coredumps.
[05:34] <Diziet> Err, symptoms are.
[05:34] <pitti> Diziet: ok, thanks
[05:34] <Diziet> pdf2ps is pretty ropey.  I'm not sure why you'd use it if you've got pdftops.
[05:34] <pitti> Diziet: it worked fine in hoary
[05:35] <Diziet> Um, yes.  It's still ropey :-).
[05:37] <dieman> yeah
[05:37] <dieman> pstopdf keeps fonts around, too
[05:37] <dieman> doesn't pdf2ps lose them?
[05:37] <pitti> Diziet: erm, btw, I mean ps2pdf, not pdf2ps
[05:38] <Diziet> Err, oh.
[05:38] <dieman> pdftops, rather
[05:38] <dieman> hrm
[05:38] <dieman> broken ps2pdf would suck.
[05:38] <pitti> if there is another way to convert a postscript file to pdf other than ps2pdf (i. e. ghostscript), I'd be interested :-)
[05:39] <N6REJ> May I ask a hardware support question?
[05:39] <pitti> I noticed it yesterday when I wanted to archive my fiscal report for September
[05:39] <zyga> Lathiat: you have reached a zero value!
[05:39] <Diziet> I don't know anything about this other bug, but it doesn't sound at all related to what I have here.
[05:41] <N6REJ> yes? no?
[05:41] <Lathiat> zyga: :)
[05:42] <Kamion> N6REJ: we prefer support questions on #ubuntu, really ...
[05:42] <N6REJ> Kamion: ok, I've tried there, and I believe there to be a bug in the driver is why I'm asking here... But I understand.
[05:43] <Kamion> if you've got it down far enough that you think you can point to a particular bug in a particular driver, then that sounds like good material for a bug report
[05:43] <Kamion> oh, I *hate* cdebconf sometimes
[05:45] <N6REJ> Kamion, I have an ancient S3 Virge video card, with 8mb of ram ( pci ) and it runs great in ubuntu UNTIL you throw the desktop on.  Then it boots gives you the beautiful orange breezy screen and locks up at the username prompt! Its a hardware lock as you can't even [ctrl] +[alt] +[del]  to reboot.  It uses the I850 chipset.  I've tried s3, vesa, s3virge, everything I can think of and all do the...
[05:45] <N6REJ> ...same.  If I dont' use the gui it works great.
[05:46] <N6REJ> Kamion: Its a server, so its not a show-stopper, but sense your so close to release I thought I'd mention it.
[05:47] <Kamion> N6REJ: does it work if you boot in recovery mode?
[05:47] <N6REJ> Kamion: yes
[05:47] <Kamion> N6REJ: file a bug against the usplash component, please; it's probably that
[05:47] <N6REJ> works if you just install in straight server mode too.
[05:49] <bddebian> Who enables whitelists for katie?  Is that mako?
[05:49] <dholbach> elmo
[05:49] <bddebian> Ohh
[05:49] <dholbach> it's explained on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
[05:49] <mako> bddebian: not me :)
[05:49] <N6REJ> kamion, ok.. last one... and this might be a big one..... I just bought belkins 54g F5D7001 wireless nics, and gave my son his first computer ( with ubuntu breezy of course ) and breezy thought it was a "firewire" card.  I fixed the wiki so that others can now use it with ubuntu, but I don't think breezy should think its a firewire card.
[05:49] <N6REJ> ty for listening, and I'll post the bug... I've posted a few others
[05:50] <dholbach> so don't write to his normal adress
[05:50] <Kamion> again, that sounds better as a bug report; if it's an installer issue, use 'debian-installer' as the first-resort component
[05:50] <dholbach> EWINDOW
[05:51] <N6REJ> Kamion: very good... btw, nice job.  Installs fairly easily... not as slick as engarde, but nice.  Better server documentation would be wonderful.  Have a great day hope to be able to participate more.
[05:51] <N6REJ> g'bye
[05:59] <Kamion> ogra: oh, I dunno, you could try the first hit on google ;-)
[05:59] <ogra> heh
[06:00] <ogra> in fact its the second :)
[06:00] <segfault> what a boring day.
[06:00] <ogra> oh, looks like a trulux sideproject :)
[06:01] <ogra> and mentions the word secure in every second sentence ...
[06:01] <Kamion> ogra: *shrug* it's the first here
[06:01] <ogra> Kamion, i ger german ones first... there is a fair booth building company called engarde :)
[06:02] <ogra> s/ger/get
[06:03] <Diziet> Dammit, something has gone wrong here.  gs-gpl ubuntu3 seems to be missing the diff from ubuntu1.
[06:06] <Diziet> Oh for a revision control system !
[06:06] <zyga> Amaranth: hi
[06:09] <Keybuk> Diziet: I'm writing' it, I'm writin' it!  hold yer 'orses
[06:09] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/products/gs-gpl/+series/main
[06:10] <Keybuk> ^ there's a CVS mainline import for gs-gpl, so that one's probably ready earlyish
[06:10] <Keybuk> oh, wait, "Test Failed" ... bug lifeless and ddaa <g>
[06:10] <Diziet> Hrrrrm.  It's my own diffs I'm losing track of !
[06:11] <Keybuk> that's what HCT is for
[06:13] <segfault> ogra: will the new xscreensaver be fixed for breezy?
[06:13] <ogra> segfault, you mean pt_BR
[06:13] <segfault> yeah, heh
[06:13] <Diziet> Indeed.  Should I start to use it yet ?  Given that I'm not really a bleeding-edge type ...
[06:14] <ogra> segfault, i'm on it... i'm just preparing a RC for edubuntu in the other channel
[06:14] <segfault> ah, ok
[06:15] <Amaranth> zyga: hi
[06:16] <zyga> Amaranth: dholbach suggested that you might know something about one thing
[06:16] <Amaranth> zyga: python or menu?
[06:16] <zyga> Amaranth: does the .desktop file specs provide any icon fallback support
[06:16] <Amaranth> zyga: Not that I'm aware of
[06:17] <ogra> zyga, the panel maenu has a fallback
[06:17] <Amaranth> zyga: If the icon doesn't exist ubuntu's patched gnome-panel will add a basic application icon
[06:17] <zyga> hmm 
[06:17] <zyga> ogra: how does the panel select the icon then?
[06:18] <Amaranth> zyga: But you can just say "Icon=foo" and it'll look in the icon theme the user is using for foo.png, foo.svg, etc at all sizes, then fall back to hicolor, then to the basic application icon
[06:18] <ogra> zyga, it doesnt... if there is no icon, it shows a hardcoded default one
[06:18] <zyga> Amaranth: I know
[06:19] <mvo> slomo_: did you had any luck with the updated gnome-terminal? did it fix #17309 for you?
[06:19] <zyga> Amaranth: I've noticed tango-icon-theme and decided to check how it works in reality - nautlius.desktop has Icon=file-manager where t-i-t provides system-file-manager
[06:20] <zyga> Amaranth, ogra: thanks
[06:20] <Kamion> Keybuk: dude. what do you think about adding - flags to programs in dpkg-dev? ;-)
[06:20] <ogra> zyga, did you read all the docs on the websie about new specs ? they want to change naming schemes
[06:21] <Keybuk> Kamion: -?! what
[06:21] <ogra> loool
[06:21] <zyga> ogra: no, not yet I'm parsing thru...
[06:21] <zyga> Kamion: - ;-) ?
[06:22] <Amaranth> zyga: You should email the fd.o xdg-list and suggest making the Icon key a semicolon seperated list
[06:22] <ogra> zyga, afaik, dholbach just packed up quickly what was there i dont think the theme has seen extensive adjustments to match ubuntu
[06:22] <Amaranth> zyga: or have fun with symlinks
[06:23] <zyga> Amaranth, ogra: I'm off job for today so I might hack this stuff for recreation
[06:23] <ogra> (which was the right thing imho regarding its immaturity)
[06:23] <zyga> dholbach: interereted in a tester? :)
[06:23] <dholbach> zyga: tester for what?
[06:23] <zyga> ^^
[06:23] <ogra> zyga, its very young... 
[06:23] <zyga> ogra: I know :)
[06:23] <Amaranth> zyga: If you can hack gnome-panel/gnome-menus (whichever handles loading the file and finding the icon) to work with lists that'd be awesome
[06:23] <zyga> dholbach: the icon theme
[06:24] <ogra> dont expect i to work or have at least the minimal icon set
[06:24] <Amaranth> tango doesn't have many icons actually completed yet
[06:24] <ogra> yup
[06:24] <ogra> so its nice to have... but dont file bugs about it ;)
[06:25] <zyga> Amaranth: I don't care about the icons really 
[06:26] <zyga> Amaranth: what I do like is the idea of another standard for desktop stuff that others might follow
[06:26] <zyga> (linux desktop really needs this)
[06:26] <zyga> IMHO of course
[06:28] <dholbach> bbl
[06:29] <Amaranth> zyga: Unless the gnome-panel handles icon loading like that it'll get no where without support from GNOME and every upstream in the world. :)
[06:29] <jdub> part of the project is standardising icon names
[06:30] <Amaranth> Sure, but we need a gradual change, not a massive all-or-nothing change.
[06:36] <spayne> is this Tango
[06:36] <Amaranth> yeah
[06:41] <mdz> doko: ping
[06:41] <zyga> Amaranth: true
[06:42] <mdz> morning all
[06:42] <zyga> morning mdz
[06:42] <doko> mdz: pong
[06:43] <spayne> Kamion: ping
[06:43] <mdz> doko: can we get #4658 fixed for the release?  it is a long-standing wart
[06:43] <Kamion> spayne: yes?
[06:43] <ogra> morn mdz 
[06:43] <spayne> Kamion: the next meeting is in half term so i can make it :)
[06:43] <spayne> Kamion: sorry again :)
[06:44] <Kamion> spayne: yes, I saw your comment to that effect on #ubuntu-meeting
[06:44] <Kamion> thanks
[06:44] <spayne> Kamion: just when you're thinking about something all day and when it comes to it :(
[06:44] <infinity> mdz : Mornin'.
[06:44] <doko> mdz: yes, looks doable
[06:44] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[06:46] <infinity> mdz : Do you have time to argue once more about atheros in the installer?... Earlier today, I had a revelation that it would be MUCH easier to do than we first imagined, and worked up diffs to make it so.  The changes are tiny, very obvious, and should Just Work.
[06:47] <infinity> mdz : I have the two diffs here: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/ath_di/
[06:47] <infinity> mdz : The nice thing is that no changes in d-i itself are required.
[06:48] <spayne> Kamion: will this go against my application?
[06:48] <Diziet> kamion: After faffing, I've determined that: 1. gs-gpl had accidentally had one of our fixes revered (by me, I assume :-/).  But I have a version with that fix and the new one and it works nicely.
[06:49] <mdz> infinity: isn't a dependency from nic-restricted-modules -> binutils-static-udeb necessary?
[06:49] <Diziet> 2. gs-esp is broken on at least some pdf's from ooffice and this is true for x11 driver as well as pdf2ps.
[06:49] <Kamion> spayne: applications are considered on the basis of ongoing contribution to Ubuntu; persistent disruptiveness or obnoxiousness would be a problem, but a simple mistake isn't
[06:49] <\sh> hmm...hotplug is the responsible piece of software which loads the pcmcia drivers, right?
[06:49] <Diziet> 2. is the heap corruption, which is a different bug to the x11 bug I've just been chasing.
[06:50] <spayne> Kamion: thanks :)
[06:50] <Diziet> So I propose to upload gs-gpl now and carry on faffing with gs-esp.
[06:50] <infinity> mdz : No, binutils-static-udeb will get pulled in by priority overrides.
[06:51] <mdz> infinity: and guaranteed to be there before nic-restricted-modules is configured?
[06:51] <infinity> mdz : Dependencies would be nice, but anna doesn't quite deal with them as expected anyway, so fixing that particular warty can wait for dapper.
[06:51] <infinity> mdz : So Kamion tells me.  It should unpack them in alphabetical order (oo, how frightening is that?)
[06:51] <Kamion> in practice anna unpacks stuff (and configures, for non-menu-item packages) in Packages file order
[06:52] <mdz> I don't think it would be wise to force this into breezy at this point
[06:52] <Kamion> which is sucky, but no way am I fixing it now
[06:52] <Kamion> mdz: we can incorporate these changes into breezy, but not raise the priority of the udebs
[06:52] <mdz> yes, that's fine
[06:52] <Kamion> mdz: that will have zero effect on our current installer, but allow us to give people a boot option that will make atheros work
[06:52] <Diziet> The debdiffs between Debian and the proposed upload and between Breezy and the proposed upload of gs-gpl look as I'd expect.
[06:53] <infinity> mdz : So, I'm okay to upload these, then, and the priorities will determine if stuff gets used or not?
[06:53] <mdz> infinity: sounds good
[06:53] <Kamion> Diziet: gs-gpl> yes, based on the previous discussion we had
[06:54] <Diziet> kamion: Right.
[06:54] <spayne> jdub: do you know at what stage Tango is at?
[06:54] <mdz> infinity: surely this uses a ridiculous amount of memory in the installer
[06:54] <bddebian> elmo is back to doing all the syncs right?
[06:54] <mdz> oh, I suppose it's nvidia and ati which are huge
[06:54] <mdz> ath_hal is fairly small
[06:55] <infinity> mdz : Quite, yes.
[06:55] <infinity> (Hence why we shrunk the udeb)
[06:56] <mdz> infinity: if lrm-manager fails, will it bring down the postinst (and the installer) with it?
[06:56] <spayne> weird thing
[06:56] <spayne> why for some, is it called Trash and others Wastebasket
[06:56] <spayne> is this a bug?
[06:56] <spayne> which should it be?
[06:56] <infinity> mdz : Note the liberal sprinkling of || true in the two places where it might fail for odd reasons.
[06:57] <infinity> mdz : (Well, the true on the touch is necessary because busybox just plain can't do that, the ||true on the ld call is my own paranoia)
[06:57] <mdz> infinity: right, but even safer would be to wrap the lrm-manager call itself
[06:58] <infinity> There is no lrm-manager call, lrm-manager is installed as the postinst.
[06:58] <mdz> oh, you made lrm-managre the postinst
[06:58] <mdz> eek
[06:58] <mdz> infinity: have you tested this?
[06:58] <infinity> It seemed a very di-ish thing to do.
[06:59] <infinity> Not in an installer image, but I've tested lrm-manager-commands-in-busybox
[06:59] <jdub> spayne: kicking off, with a fair few icons done
[06:59] <spayne> jdub: it sounds like a good project
[06:59] <spayne> jdub: do you know about this wastebasket thing?
[06:59] <Kamion> the postinst will definitely get run at what seems to be an appropriate time (during the anna run)
[06:59] <ogra> spayne, i dont think its at a stage where you should file any bugs about stuff yet ;)
[07:00] <ogra> spayne, its *very* young
[07:01] <mdz> Diziet: please send a debdiff for gs-gpl 8.01-5ubuntu4
[07:01] <spayne> ogra: i'm talking about Breezy man!
[07:01] <infinity> mdz : Kamion's giving me a recipe to do a local test right now.
[07:02] <spayne> ogra: on dist-upgraded from Hoary, it is called Trash
[07:02] <spayne> ogra: but on fresh installed, it is called Wastebasket
[07:04] <spayne> has anyone seen this one?
[07:04] <jdub> spayne: wastebasket?
[07:04] <Lathiat> we're moving to malone after breezy?
[07:05] <jbailey> spayne: Are you sure you selected the same locale?
[07:05] <jdub> oh, that's the non-US name for 'trash' :)
[07:05] <jbailey> spayne: From a terminal "set | grep LANG" would tell you. =)
[07:05] <\sh> mdz: ping
[07:05] <mdz> \sh: yes?
[07:06] <\sh> mdz: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16375 <- see last comment...what are you saying? (amarok)
[07:06] <mdz> \sh: there are no comments from me in that bug
[07:06] <spayne> jbailey: i have a dist-upgraded on my ibook and it says trash
[07:06] <spayne> jbailey: the rest say Wastebasket
[07:06] <\sh> mdz: yes, I'm asking you about a comment...for me it's a nogo to include a new untested amarok
[07:07] <mbreit> infinity: thanks for fixing my problem!!! (well... what was the problem??)
[07:07] <jbailey> spayne: Right.  But it's still worth checking to make sure you have the same locale set.
[07:07] <pitti> @all: if package foo version 1 Replaces: foo (<< 1), will that hurt in any way?
[07:07] <jbailey> spayne: My best bet is that you don't.
[07:08] <mdz> \sh: if you feel that it should not be included, then I will not argue with you
[07:09] <spayne> jbailey: they both say LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 and LANGUAGE=en_GB:en
[07:09] <\sh> mdz: what do you feel? I'm scared...cause 1.3.1 gave me enough paine
[07:09] <infinity> mbreit : Not sure right now, actually.  It's a bug we need to debug post-release, right now I just worked around it.
[07:10] <infinity> mbreit : it's a bug in either scons, ccache, or our crazy gcc wrapper.  Or all three.  Or something else.  I'm undecided at this point.
[07:13] <pitti> Kamion, mdz: I'm building new langpacks now; I expect to have them ready in about 1 hour; is uploading ok for you?
[07:14] <mbreit> infinity: okay.... if I can help there just ask... and thanks again for fixing it
[07:14] <spayne> jbailey: ping
[07:15] <Phanatic> hi all
[07:15] <mvo> mdz: I need to revert a launchpad-integration fix: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/launchpad-integration_0.0patch26+mvo20-0ubuntu2.debdiff, it seems to cause problems with gnome-terminal (because it has a different implementation of menu accelerators). this will bring back ugly warnings, but it fixes a (rare) crash
[07:15] <jbailey> spayne: I'm still trying to think of what else is likely.
[07:15] <mvo> mdz: is that ok with you?
[07:15] <\sh> bah...I'll package a new amarok...and lets see
[07:15] <\sh> the bugfixes are more interessting then the ipod issue
[07:15] <spayne> jbailey: i think it could be something in gconf or .gnome
[07:16] <jbailey> spayne: what happens if you force the language with gdm on each of those?
[07:17] <spayne> jbailey: how do i do that?
[07:18] <jbailey> spayne: The gdm screen has a languge option near th bottom.
[07:19] <mdz> Diziet: eek, only 8.01-5ubuntu4 was in the .changes (you forgot -v)
[07:20] <Diziet> mdz: Um ?  -v on debdiff ?
[07:20] <mdz> Diziet: on dpkg-genchanges
[07:21] <mdz> for the actual upload
[07:21] <spayne> jbailey: trying now
[07:23] <mdz> Diziet: oh, -5ubuntu3 is already in the archive (I guess Kamion approved it?)
[07:23] <Diziet> Yes, a little while ago.
[07:23] <Diziet> But ubuntu3 is broken because it's missing the change in ubuntu1.
[07:23] <mdz> you sent a diff for 8.01-5 -> 8.01-5ubuntu4
[07:24] <Diziet> I sent two diffs in the same mail.
[07:24] <Kamion> there's nothing in my shell history approving gs-gpl
[07:24] <mdz> so you did
[07:24] <Diziet> 13th of September.
[07:24] <Kamion> though it might have overflowed
[07:24] <Diziet> The first one is from the Debian version, indeed.  Mainly because ubuntu3 to ubuntu4 is scarier than Debian to ubuntu4.
[07:25] <mdz> Kamion: nor mine
[07:25] <mdz> how long ago was -5ubuntu3?
[07:25] <Diziet> 13th of September.
[07:25] <mdz> oh
[07:25] <mdz> well that explains
[07:26] <Kamion> mdz: I have some oem-config, localechooser, and kbd-chooser changes on the way to fix #17366; they have no effect on the normal installer, despite changing localechooser and kbd-chooser
[07:26] <Kamion> (i.e. they're only the oem-config hooks for the latter)
[07:32] <mdz> Kamion: I'm happy to eyeball them as a sanity check
[07:33] <Kamion> thanks
[07:33] <Kamion> I can only apologise for not sorting out translation earlier
[07:33] <Kamion> I think I also need to arrange for oem-config-firstboot to refuse to drop you to a login prompt until you've created a non-system user
[07:34] <Kamion> today I managed to cancel my way out of oem-config only to arrive at a login prompt on a system which had no users with configured passwords
[07:35] <mdz> seb128: gnome-vfs2 approved, thanks
[07:49] <paulproteus|jhu> There is a very important bug with Ubuntu PowerPC in Breezy.  pbbuttonsd does not start because it does not find /dev/mixer and /dev/dsp .  These are created on "modprobe snd-pcm-oss" and "modprobe snd-mixer-oss".
[07:49] <paulproteus|jhu> Without pbbuttons running, sleep does not work, which is how I noticed this.
[07:49] <paulproteus|jhu> After running those two commands, and doing sudo /etc/init.d/pbbuttons start, sleep works fine.
[07:49] <paulproteus|jhu> Breezy is coming out extremely soon - whose attention can I bring this to?
[07:51] <crimsun> does pbbuttonsd use an initscript?
[07:51] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, Yes.
[07:52] <dilinger> ooh
[07:52] <dilinger> seb128: any particular reason we're not building totem-{gstreamer,xine} w/ --enable-mozilla and --enable-nautilus?
[07:54] <crimsun> paulproteus|jhu: what is its numbering relative to hotplug and to alsa-utils?
[07:55] <mdz> paulproteus|jhu: I have a very good friend who works at JHU
[07:56] <dilinger> neat, it works
[07:57] <pitti> uh - libmad0 is still in main - I though that should disappear?
[07:58] <silbs> mdz: did keybuk talk to you about fixing the network config delay at boot?
[07:59] <mdz> silbs: how recently?  I thought he had fixed it last week or so
[08:00] <mdz> silbs: if not, it's entirely too late now
[08:00] <silbs> mdz: yesterday.  
[08:00] <silbs> it's not fixed now
[08:00] <silbs> he said he knew how to fix it and needed to talk to you
[08:00] <mdz> silbs: no, not yesterday (I was ostensibly on holiday, though I was around most of the day)
[08:01] <silbs> it slows down boot by over a minute. 
[08:01] <mdz> I haven't heard about it from anyone other than you; it certainly doesn't affect any of my test systems
[08:01] <silbs> there are a couple other very obvious, user-facing bugs I've been watching that aren't fixed yet - shall I start questioning those?
[08:02] <mdz> silbs: I plan to start building candidate ISOs today
[08:02] <mdz> for release in <48 hours
[08:02] <silbs> mdz: it happens to claire too, don't know about others. Scott says it is leftover "auto eth" lines in interfaces file
[08:02] <paulproteus|jhu> mdz, Cool!  Who do you know who works at JHU?
[08:02] <silbs> mdz: about ubuntu still doesn't work
[08:02] <silbs> mdz: we put an evolution icon on the panel that doesn't work
[08:02] <mdz> silbs: about ubuntu should have been fixed today
[08:03] <ogra> silbs, not with the update from today (about ubuntu ?)
[08:03] <mdz> silbs: the evolution panel icon has worked fine in all my tests to date; can you be more specific?
[08:03] <silbs> cllick icon, error msg "failed to execute child process evolution-2.2". seb128 knows about it
[08:03] <ogra> mdz, have you clicked it 
[08:04] <mdz> ogra: yes, on the RC live CD
[08:04] <mdz> on 3 architectures
[08:04] <mdz> silbs: hmm, that sounds like a post-RC change that seb128 made
[08:04] <silbs> ogra: I updated this morning (my time) and it doesn't work. If it went in sometime today then I don't have it yet
[08:04] <pitti> FWIW, I always test evo on my live CD tests; WFM
[08:04] <mdz> silbs: and assured me it would have absolutely no visible impact :-P
[08:04] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, Let me check.
[08:05] <silbs> mdz: the evolution problem has been there since I started using breezy (preview-ish time)
[08:05] <mdz> silbs: then probably something is not fixed on upgrade; it had been fixed for new installs for ages
[08:06] <vuntz> silbs: did you upgrade from hoary?
[08:06] <silbs> mdz: yes, it is an upgrade issue. But we have lots of people who upgrade.
[08:06] <mdz> silbs: did you file it in bugzilla at preview-ish time?
[08:06] <silbs> mdz: yes
[08:06] <silbs> yes to upgrade, and yes I filed it
[08:06] <mdz> silbs: there are upgrades, and there are upgrades to pre-release versions
[08:06] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, postinst contains "update-rc.d pbbuttonsd defaults 12 >/dev/null
[08:06] <paulproteus|jhu> "
[08:06] <vuntz> mdz: it's most probably because evolution .desktop file calls the versioned evolution binary
[08:07] <vuntz> (evolution is broken, yes)
[08:07] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, Problem is, even after the system is fully-booted, my iBook doesn't have snd-pcm-oss or snd-mixer-oss loaded
[08:07] <ogra>  vuntz and we have this issue every release
[08:07] <crimsun> paulproteus|jhu: what sound driver is loaded?
[08:07] <vuntz> seb128 should install a evolution-2.2 symlink
[08:07] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, snd-powermac , iirc
[08:07] <vuntz> ogra: will be fixed in 2.14
[08:07] <paulproteus|jhu> (I'm not currently at it.)
[08:07] <ogra> i remember it from warty and i remember it from hoary
[08:07] <vuntz> ogra: I flamed evo people and they'll change it ;-)
[08:08] <mdz> silbs: sometimes we can only fix the upgrade after the fact.  this is all guesswork, though, since I don't know for certain what the bug is
[08:08] <ogra> vuntz, yay
[08:08] <crimsun> paulproteus|jhu: hmm, is snd-powermac loaded automatically? (it should be)
[08:09] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, Yes.
[08:09] <paulproteus|jhu> But snd-mixer-oss and snd-pcm-oss aren't.
[08:09] <silbs> mdz: whenever I bring this up people say "we know about that, we've had that problem before, we need to add a symlink for the update in ersion nnumbers"
[08:09] <crimsun> paulproteus|jhu: ok. You should be able to work around that for now by placing snd-pcm-oss in /etc/modules
[08:09] <silbs> mdz:  but as is, for a large number of users (people who upgrade), one of the few icons we put on the panel doesn't work.
[08:09] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, I can work around it myself.
[08:09] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, It's for the release that I'm worried.
[08:09] <mdz> silbs: well the bug (10164) has been marked "pending upload" for 5 months
[08:09] <zyga> uhh
[08:10] <zyga> does ubuntu use any library prelinking?
[08:10] <Mithrandir> no
[08:11] <silbs> fyi - elmo just updated and says the about ubuntu one is fixed
[08:11] <elmo> the evolution-2.2 one probably isn't fixed
[08:11] <elmo> as I just updated and there isn't an 'evolutuon-2.2' command
[08:12] <vuntz> seb128 just added the evolution-2.2 .desktop file, I think
[08:12] <vuntz> he didn't think about the binary
[08:12] <mdz> elmo: yes, see 10164
[08:12] <crimsun> paulproteus|jhu: that reeks of update weirdness; snd-pcm-oss should be loaded automatically due to line 12 of /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base
[08:12] <mdz> vuntz: why isn't the launcher on the panel just updated on upgrade?
[08:12] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, Okay.  Then perhaps that's the cause.
[08:12] <mdz> that would be much more elegant than adding symlinks
[08:13] <crimsun> paulproteus|jhu: (basically, if you have snd-powermac loaded, you have snd-pcm loaded, and snd-pcm-oss is loaded directly after snd-pcm is loaded)
[08:13] <fabbione> mdz: aren't the panel thing added to ~/.gnome* ? if so i am not sure how you can do that cleanly without treating them as config file
[08:14] <fabbione> mdz: that might be why they are not updated automatically
[08:14] <vuntz> mdz: the launchers on the panel are referenced in gconf
[08:14] <ogra> fabbione, thats not how gconf works... 
[08:14] <vuntz> mdz: it's user data
[08:14] <paulproteus|jhu> crimsun, Glad to hear this won't affect others, then.
[08:14] <vuntz> it can not be upgraded that easily :/
[08:15] <ogra> vuntz, not if its a global setting
[08:15] <vuntz> ogra: the reference to the launcher is in gconf
[08:15] <fabbione> ogra: similar concept
[08:15] <vuntz> the default launchers are in /usr/share/applications, though
[08:15] <vuntz> so evolution-2.2.desktop should use the evolution binary (not evolution-2.2)
[08:15] <ogra> if i have a global setting normally no user setiing is created for it unless i change something, no ? 
[08:16] <vuntz> ogra: wrong for the panel :-)
[08:16] <vuntz> mdz: I suppose it doesn't work for people who manually created a new launcher for evolution
[08:16] <mdz> vuntz: I don't think silbs manually created a new launcher
[08:16] <ogra> uhh, odd... we should use the cdd gconf dirs for that instead
[08:17] <vuntz> mdz: well, it must be
[08:17] <vuntz> mdz: because it's not using the .desktop that's in /usr/share/applications
[08:17] <silbs> vuntz: no, I didn't create a new one. 
[08:18] <dholbach> vuntz: /usr/share/applications/evolution-*.desktop has Exec= evolution-2.4 (or 'evolution --component=mail')
[08:18] <silbs> we had one there by default in earlier versions (to the left of the life preserver).
[08:18] <vuntz> silbs: can you do: "grep evolution ~/.gnome2/panel2.d/default/launchers/" in a terminal?
[08:18] <vuntz> dholbach: indeed. That's why I'm saying silbs is not using the default launcher :-)
[08:19] <TMM> hey, I've got some ideas on some enhancements I want to have in dapper, and I am willing to implement them myself too. What is the way to go about this? I don't really want to implement the tools I would like to see only to find out that they are not going to be accepted. I know the usual way of these things is 'show us the code' :)
[08:20] <TMM> opening a wishlist bug perhaps? but I don't really want someone else to do it :) and I don't want to give people that impression :)
[08:20] <silbs> vuntz: /home/jane/.gnome2/panel2.d/default/launchers/eek-00480999d8.desktop:Exec=evolution-2.2
[08:20] <TMM> (not that I'd mind someone else implementing somethings though) :)
[08:20] <fabbione> TMM: this isn't exactly the right time to discuss dapper
[08:20] <vuntz> silbs: so you manually added the launcher to the panel :-)
[08:21] <fabbione> TMM: we are very close to release and we are all overbloated of work
[08:21] <TMM> whoops, sorry
[08:21] <dholbach> TMM: IdeaPool on the wiki maybe
[08:21] <silbs> vuntz: I really didn't.  I did add other launchers to the panel, but not that one
[08:21] <fabbione> TMM: please stick all your ideas on the wiki
[08:21] <fabbione> TMM: so that nothing will get lost
[08:21] <dholbach> TMM: and if it's desktop related, DesktopTeamVisions, thank you :)
[08:22] <TMM> fabbione, ok, I just want to know the prodcedure :) not discuss the ideas, I know you are busy :)
[08:22] <TMM> carry on :P
[08:22] <TMM> ;)
[08:22] <dholbach> the only option in the evolution issue seems to a symlink
[08:23] <elmo> sorry - not being funny, but what does it matter whether or not it was user added?
[08:23] <silbs> vuntz: and frankly, even if I did add it myself (which I didn't :) ), it should still work
[08:23] <TMM> btw, anything I can do or test? if people are overbloated, perhaps there's some things that non-authorised people can take over?
[08:23] <vuntz> silbs: I'm pretty sure you added it :-)
[08:23] <vuntz> silbs: but it should work, yes
[08:23] <elmo> vuntz: I'm pretty sure she didn't
[08:23] <elmo> vuntz: we have other people in the office with the same symptoms
[08:23] <vuntz> elmo: well, the file can not appear without user interaction
[08:23] <elmo> vuntz: sigh
[08:23] <vuntz> or a script installed it
[08:23] <elmo> anyway, this is STILL missing the point
[08:24] <zyga> I modified libgnome-desktop but I have trouble actually seeing any changes, is there something tricky I need to do to make all binaries use this modified library?
[08:24] <TMM> I couldn't quite get the hang of the FTBFS list for universe, a lot of stuff didn't really seem broken, and I don't have an AMD64 box
[08:24] <TMM> :)
[08:24] <elmo> why can we not just add the symlink and be done with it?
[08:24] <elmo> it's a one line change
[08:24] <vuntz> the point is that someone should add a evolution-2.2 symlink
[08:24] <dholbach> TMM: that's for #ubuntu-motu
[08:24] <zyga> I've tried make install and building & installing 
[08:24] <vuntz> (and probably a evolution-2.0 symlink too, btw)
[08:24] <TMM> dholbach, I know, I just made an example :) asking for something else that would be useful
[08:24] <seb128> re
[08:25] <seb128> dilinger: what? we use mozilla/nautilus
[08:25] <seb128> mdz: thanks for gnome-vfs2
[08:25] <seb128> vuntz: that doesn't work, it gives 2 menu entries, I already said it to you yesterday
[08:26] <vuntz> seb128: if you added a symlink for the *binary* ?
[08:26] <vuntz> s/added/add/
[08:26] <fabbione> mdz: may i suggest you add also an evolution -> evolution-$latest? so we can get over this transition in the next release?
[08:26] <dholbach> as i see it evolution-2.{0,2,4} weren't installable anyway, so that should be no problem to do
[08:27] <mdz> fabbione: that has always been there
[08:27] <fabbione> mdz: like changing the .desktop to point to evolution (neutral version)
[08:27] <dholbach> ... parallel ...
[08:27] <fabbione> ah ok
[08:27] <mdz> fabbione: the problem is that the .desktop file points to evolution-<ver>
[08:27] <seb128> silbs, mdz: the change was supposed to fix that
[08:27] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. we should make it neutral
[08:27] <vuntz> fabbione: evolution people will fix this for 2.14
[08:28] <jdub> vuntz: finally?
[08:28] <silbs> seb128: it didn't
[08:28] <seb128> vuntz: why, evolution-2.2.desktop has Exec=evolution-2.4
[08:28] <vuntz> jdub: yes, I flamed them :-)
[08:28] <mdz> jdub: they get the rusty trowel award
[08:28] <jdub> vuntz: sweet, well done :)
[08:28] <vuntz> seb128: .desktop files added by the user :-)
[08:28] <dilinger> seb128: sorry, was looking at older packages
[08:28] <dholbach> seb128: some dekstop entries still have evolution-2.2
[08:28] <seb128> fabbione, mdz: it is neutral now, issue is upgrades from hoary
[08:28] <mdz> seb128: silbs' launcher still tries to run evolution-2.2
[08:28] <seb128> dholbach: not everybody to the same time please
[08:28] <mdz> seb128: and it doesn't seem neutral now either
[08:29] <mdz> grep Exec /usr/share/applications/evolution-2.4.desktop
[08:29] <mdz> Exec=evolution-2.4
[08:29] <seb128> mdz: panel uses /usr/share/applications/evolution-mail.desktop
[08:29] <seb128> with new installs
[08:29] <mdz> ok
[08:29] <mdz> /usr/share/applications/evolution-2.2.desktop:Exec=evolution-2.4
[08:29] <mdz> /usr/share/applications/evolution-2.4.desktop:Exec=evolution-2.4
[08:29] <mdz> /usr/share/applications/evolution-mail.desktop:Exec=evolution --component=mail
[08:31] <seb128> we use -mail now which is neutral
[08:31] <dholbach> the problem are older launchers in ~
[08:31] <seb128> for update as I understand it the panel looks for evolution-2.2.desktop
[08:31] <seb128> and I've made <mdz> /usr/share/applications/evolution-2.2.desktop:Exec=evolution-2.4
[08:32] <seb128> vuntz: any other option?
[08:32] <seb128> dholbach: I can't change ~ datas from the package
[08:32] <dholbach> seb128: what about providing /usr/bin/eovlution-2.2 in a symlink?
[08:32] <dholbach> evolution
[08:32] <seb128> we can do that right
[08:32] <seb128> so we have 3 binaries *g*
[08:32] <mdz> seb128: I uploaded evolution with an evolution-2.2 -> evolution-2.4 symlink
[08:32] <Amaranth> dholbach: iow, the problem is smeg users who messed with the evolution menu entry :)
[08:33] <seb128> mdz: thanks
[08:33] <mdz> I hope it doesn't break any interesting upgrades
[08:33] <janimo> elmo, please sync wdm, override ubuntu1
[08:34] <vuntz> seb128: only option is symlink, I suppose
[08:34] <Amaranth> although something with a different binary name for every release should probably be considered broken (if they don't make a symlink)
[08:34] <seb128> vuntz: we agree that we need alternatives for both the desktop and the binary?
[08:35] <vuntz> yes
[08:35] <seb128> k
[08:36] <seb128> and after that they try arguing against providing an non-versionned version
[08:36] <ogra> ouch
[08:36] <Amaranth> seb128: What, do they call it user error?
[08:37] <zyga> hey all the kickers
[08:37] <Amaranth> holy shit, class started 7 minutes ago
[08:37] <speel> lol
[08:38] <Lathiat> haha
[08:39] <seb128> mdz: I would rather close #10164
[08:40] <seb128> mdz: since the panel config uses evolution-mail which is neutral now and we ship the 2.2 variant for hoary updates ...
[08:40] <mpt> TMM: In one sentence, what's the enhancements you'd like to implement?
[08:45] <\sh> mdz: I have to revert my opinion about amarok-1.3.3..it's much more stable then 1.3.1 will ever be
[08:45] <mdz> seb128: ok with me if you are happy with my horrible 
[08:45] <mdz> hack
[08:46] <bddebian> \sh: :)
[08:47] <seb128> mdz: there is no other way afaik, those are user datas stored to gconf, we can't update them from the package ...
[08:47] <TMM> mpt, X configuration stuff, a'la sax but working and implemented in pyglade (so it looks good) and fallback X server on vesa in 640x480 because right now people's setups get completly borked if they switch videocards
[08:47] <silbs> goodnight guys, thanks for all your work
[08:47] <TMM> mpt, that fallback X server would be to run the aforementioned tool :)
[08:48] <\sh> bddebian: serious...this is really serious 
[08:48] <bddebian> \sh: That :-)  Was a "good" :-)
[08:48] <kikidonk> dholbach: ping ?
[08:48] <dholbach> kikidonk: pong
[08:48] <kikidonk> ha !
[08:48] <dholbach> :)
[08:48] <kikidonk> do you think it would be wise to release another deskbar ?
[08:49] <\sh> bddebian: oh :) sorry :)
[08:49] <dholbach> kikidonk: i'm not the maintainer anymore, Mithrandir just overwrote it, we're now the deskbar-applet team :)
[08:49] <bddebian> heh
[08:49] <bddebian> dholbach: Dan man, how many teams are you on? :-)
[08:49] <bddebian> Err s/Dan/Dang/
[08:49] <dholbach> bddebian: :)
[08:50] <mpt> TMM: ok, that seems like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XConfigurationModification
[08:50] <mdz> \sh: so it seems that it was a mistake for me to allow 1.3 in the first place
[08:50] <mpt> TMM: So maybe you want to complete that spec, and I could help push it through the review process at Ubuntu Below Zero
[08:50] <mpt> (assuming you're not going yourself)
[08:51] <\sh> mdz: I think "no", because the people wanted it, but I'm not in adventuring mode, so I'll let it test by others until tomorrow...whole kubuntu-devel team is on it ;)
[08:51] <mdz> \sh: I have tried to be flexible about kubuntu in order to accodomate the KDE community, but as long as they aren't stabilizing at the same time that we are, it isn't really going to work
[08:52] <mdz> \sh: we are now at a point where if you change it, and it's worse than what we already have, there is no time left to fix it
[08:52] <\sh> mdz: so I think it would be better to ship 1.3.3 then 1.3.1 (serious now), because most of the patched stuff from riddell is now fixed in upstream and even the ipod generation is happy
[08:52] <ogra> \sh, whats wrong with 1.3.1 i only heard good things until now...
[08:53] <mdz> \sh: in other words, you have exactly one chance to get the absolute final version right.  first try.
[08:53] <mdz> \sh: and if it isn't right, then kubuntu 5.10 will suffer
[08:54] <\sh> mdz: as I said, my decision will be made tomorrow lets say 12 UTC
[08:54] <mdz> \sh: tomorrow is too late
[08:54] <\sh> ok..give me at least 22 UTC
[08:54] <mdz> it is already too late
[08:54] <TMM> mpt, I'll start by finishing the spec then, I have been fixin Xfree and Xorg problems for years now here on freenode, and I think I've got a pretty good idea of stuff that goes wrong, and the stuff you don't get bugreports about because people give up (non working mouse, display frequency trouble etc) 
[08:54] <TMM> mpt, thanks, I'll work from here
[08:55] <TMM> mpt, bbl :)
[08:55] <mpt> TMM: no problem, and welcome
[08:55] <mdz> \sh: either upload it now, or don't.  but if it's wrong, I will not be able to help you.  I will be busy with the Ubuntu release
[08:55] <\sh> mdz: 22 UTC that's 24:00 my time...I'll decide...and we can talk again, deal?
[08:56] <mdz> \sh: so you need to decide whether you trust amarok upstream enough to risk the Kubuntu release
[08:57] <mdz> \sh: personally, i think that a botched release might be a good lesson for the community.  I'm not willing to risk Ubuntu to teach that lesson, but if you want to use Kubuntu for that...
[08:59] <mdz> \sh: I assume Riddell agrees with you?
[08:59] <fabbione> \sh: sometimes a stable release implies to have software that is bugged. better bugged but predictable behaviour than a bugged unknown behaviour
[08:59] <fabbione> \sh: it happens with much more important pkgs than amarok all the time
[09:00] <fabbione> \sh: see the kernel
[09:00] <\sh> fabbione: believe me when I say, that I have really serious stomach-paine, and that I'm running every bloody 5 mins to toilet to pray to montezuma
[09:00] <ogra> segfault, building xscreensaver :)
[09:00] <mdz> Kamion: do you have an ETA for those oem fixes?
[09:01] <fabbione> \sh: yes i understand.. what i am suggesting is a safe path..
[09:01] <fabbione> \sh: you know where you are now, you won't know where you will be in 5 minutes (other than the toilet i mean)
[09:01] <Kamion> mdz: I think they're about as good as they're going to get now; uploading in a few minutes
[09:02] <mdz> Kamion: my eyeball offer still stands
[09:03] <Kamion> can you eyeball them from queue/accepted, or do you want a diff first?
[09:03] <Loevborg> Is there a good reason for installing locate (slocate) by default (even run daily)? (please tell me if this is not a good place to ask)
[09:04] <mdz> Kamion: doesn't much matter, I suppose
[09:08] <Kamion> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/oem-config/
[09:12] <mdz> Kamion: *whimper*
[09:12] <Kamion> tell me about it
[09:14] <Kamion> anything in particular that concerns you, or just the size?
[09:14] <mdz> Kamion: why is the argument passed to translate_labels a dictionary, when translate_labels seems to only use it as a sequence?
[09:14] <mbreit> is it a known bug that about ubuntu is broken?
[09:14] <mdz> Kamion: size
[09:14] <mdz> mbreit: it's a known _and fixed_ bug
[09:14] <bddebian> mbreit: I think so
[09:15] <Kamion>             widget.set_label(self.description(questions[label] ))
[09:15] <Kamion> mdz: ^--
[09:15] <Kamion> the argument is a map from glade widget names to the debconf question names whose (translated) descriptions should be filled in
[09:16] <mbreit> oups... i think i did no dist-upgrade today... so sorry ;)
[09:16] <mdz> Kamion: 'for label, question in questions' would be clearer, but ok
[09:16] <Kamion> oh, fair point, my python-fu is not as strong as it might be
[09:17] <Kamion> mdz: hmm, that doesn't work for dictionaries
[09:17] <Kamion> I think it would have to be a sequence of tuples for that to work
[09:18] <mdz> Kamion: .values()
[09:18] <\sh> mdz: even if i'm being fcking wrong...and I'll get all the amarok fans against me...1.3.1 will be shipped...and I don't mind now Riddell's veto in this...I'll rather backport 1.3.x from dapper to breezy then taking a risk...thx for your ear..last line of gibberish you will hear for breezy about the amarok issue...
[09:18] <mdz> er, .items() -> sequence of key, value
[09:18] <mdz> \sh: you have my full support
[09:19] <fabbione> \sh: wise choise
[09:19] <Kamion> mdz: ah yes, that works
[09:20] <mdz> Kamion: it looks correct and still scares the bejeezus out of me
[09:20] <bddebian> \sh: :'-(
[09:20] <Kamion> oem-config scares the bejeezus out of me without even trying
[09:20] <Kamion> but that's just the mad debconf use
[09:21] <fabbione> Kamion: can't be THAT bed.. it managed to work for me.. 
[09:21] <fabbione> s/bed/bad
[09:21] <Kamion> um, yeah. dunno what to say. I've tested it as much as I can without building new images with the .debs; I can do that if you like, it'll just take a while
[09:21] <Kamion> actually, if I built official images now (with the shadow fix from earlier today), I could test it just by dpkg -i'ing new .debs
[09:22] <Kamion> mdz: (diff updated for the .items thing)
[09:23] <\sh> bddebian: you read my blog article about MOTU work? With the upload rights, you'll have responsibilities? This is what I meant...and as I was telling ogra...I didn't even know parts of my body, that there are  perspiratory glands  
[09:23] <bddebian> \sh: :-)
[09:23] <mdz> Kamion: fire away
[09:25] <mdz> Kamion: anything else pending before we do some CD builds?
[09:25] <mdz> seb128: still here?
[09:26] <mdz> seb128: you have one 5.10/PENDINGUPLOAD bug left
[09:26] <Kamion> mdz: debian-installer build following the OEM changes
[09:26] <mdz> seb128: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12336
[09:26] <Kamion> (which is prepared and ready)
[09:26] <mdz> seb128: now or never
[09:26] <pitti> mdz: langpacks still need maybe 45 minutes until I fully reviewed and tested them
[09:26] <mdz> hmm, looks like it's a "fixed upstream" rather than "ready to upload"
[09:26] <Kamion> mdz: need new live filesystem image builds, too; I'll just check whether the amd64 image has been zeroed
[09:26] <mdz> updated milestone
[09:27] <Kamion> amd64/live should fit with the next build
[09:27] <ogra> mdz, i have a last minute translation fix for pt_BR in xscreensaver, just testbuilding... am i to late ? 
[09:27] <Kamion> mdz: nothing else on my list
[09:27] <mdz> ogra: put it into rosetta instead
[09:27] <mdz> it can go in a post-release langpack update
[09:27] <ogra> mdz, thats wher i got the fix from
[09:27] <mdz> rosetta data is exported to langpacks now
[09:27] <mdz> either it's in pitti's new langpacks, or it will be in the next set
[09:28] <mdz> no need to touch xscreensaver
[09:28] <ogra> oh, ok... so i dont need to touch the code at all... silly me
[09:28] <pitti> ogra: I don't have xscreensaver pt_BR
[09:28] <pitti> ogra: I had to kick many many po files due to some Rosetta export bugs
[09:28] <pitti> that's also why the langpack update was delayed so badly
[09:28] <ogra> pitti, it was changed today
[09:29] <pitti> ogra: ah, then no chance
[09:29] <pitti> ogra: the tarball uses yesterday's data
[09:29] <pitti> next update then
[09:29] <ogra> pt_BR was heavily broken all translations were the same sentence for all mgsstrings :)
[09:29] <ogra> pitti, is there to be one before release ? 
[09:30] <pitti> ogra: no, after releas
[09:30] <ogra> oh, and rosetta always makes it iso-8859-1 ... 
[09:30] <pitti> ogra: but I can manually put in a new file or kill the existing one
[09:30] <ogra> segfault, ^^^
[09:31] <ogra> hmm
[09:32] <jdub> hrm, firefox has started hanging really badly
[09:32] <jdub> gettimeofday({1129058862, 863849}, NULL) = 0
[09:32] <jdub> select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, {0, 11000}) = 0 (Timeout)
[09:32] <jdub> gettimeofday({1129058862, 874813}, NULL) = 0
[09:32] <jdub> select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, {0, 11000}) = 0 (Timeout)
[09:32] <jdub> gettimeofday({1129058862, 885821}, NULL) = 0
[09:32] <jdub> select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, {0, 11000}) = 0 (Timeout)
[09:33] <jdub> gettimeofday({1129058862, 896815}, NULL) = 0
[09:33] <jdub> select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, {0, 11000}) = 0 (Timeout)
[09:33] <jdub> gettimeofday({1129058862, 907786}, NULL) = 0
[09:33] <jdub> select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, {0, 11000}) = 0 (Timeout)
[09:33] <jdub> 
[09:33] <ogra> uuh, whats that ? 
[09:33] <jdub> strace -p $(pidof firefox-bin)
[09:33] <fabbione> it's polling on a FD that timeouts and firefox probably doesn't check for that condition
[09:33] <fabbione> = infinite loop
[09:35] <jdub> nice
[09:35] <jdub> it's happened 3 times in the last few hours
[09:35] <j^> with flash animations i saw that quite often lately
[09:36] <j^> but also the totemplugin(is that installed by default?)
[09:38] <mdz> jdub: google video's .swf does something like that to the flash plugin when I close its tab sometimes
[09:38] <jdub> hrm, was opening a new tab
[09:39] <mdz> Kamion: I've drafted a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyTestPlan#preview ; feedback and edits welcome
[09:39] <Kamion> mdz: oh, only other thing I know about is that initramfs-tools breaks with XFS /boot on powerpc
[09:40] <Kamion> I doubt we'll have time to fix that, but dedicating somebody's time to investigating it would be good, if only for release notes
[09:40] <mdz> Kamion: not a showstopper by any means as far as I'm concerned
[09:40] <mdz> Kamion: definitely release notes caveat material though
[09:40] <fabbione> oh crap
[09:40] <fabbione> Diziet: ping???
[09:41] <mdz> fabbione: don't say something like that during release prep unless you really mean it ;-)
[09:41] <mdz> my poor nerves
[09:41] <ogra> i guess he means it... ?
[09:41] <fabbione> mdz: i meant it.. he did drop something on gs-gpl that made it break on sparc.. and crap at one day from release is the suck..
[09:41] <fabbione> dunno what he changed.. but it hits an ICE on gcc
[09:42] <mdz> fabbione: he mostly just restored older, dropped changes.
[09:42] <mdz> fabbione: if gs-gpl is out of date on sparc, that is not the end of the world
[09:43] <fabbione> mdz: no but it sucks that yet again for one package i can't make the full release
[09:43] <mdz> ogra: I prefer the US equivalent, bourbon
[09:43] <fabbione> and that's really annoying for a last minute fuckage 
[09:43] <mdz> fabbione: gs-gpl is not even part of the default install
[09:43] <ogra> mdz, lets have some at UBZ... :)
[09:43] <fabbione> mdz: i know.. it's all of main that matters after one year of effort :/
[09:44] <fabbione> bah
[09:44] <fabbione> ok
[09:44] <fabbione> we will ROCK dapper!
[09:44] <ogra> yay
[09:44] <mdz> fabbione: it isn't too late if you can fix it immediately ;we need another cron.daily anyway
[09:46] <Kamion> but will take a burn/install cycle before I can test these .debs
[09:46] <fabbione> mdz: checking
[09:46] <mdz> ogra: I brought some fine bourbon to debconf5, perhaps I can find some for UBZ as well
[09:46] <ogra> yeah... i'm rather the scotch type, but i gues i just havent had the right bourbon yet ;)
[09:47] <mdz> ogra: I enjoy scotch as well, but there is no point in me bringing scotch from the us which is imported from scotland ;-)
[09:47] <Kamion> mdz: oh, one other thing; we have some space on the install CD now as a result of changes made to make the live CD fit. Do we want to put some language packs in?
[09:47] <ogra> mdz, *G*
[09:47] <mdz> Kamion: how much?
[09:47] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[09:48] <mdz> ogra: mjg59 and stargirl both brought excellent scotch to debconf5
[09:48] <Kamion> 27MB, 47MB, 37MB
[09:48] <ogra> damned, i need to go next time...
[09:48] <Kamion> unexpectedly quite a bit, in fact
[09:48] <mdz> Kamion: whoa, amd64 > powerpc now?
[09:48] <Kamion> yes
[09:48] <mdz> pitti: what langpacks could we fit in that space?
[09:48] <Kamion> has been for a fair while, I think
[09:48] <Kamion> there's about 10MB free on the i386 and powerpc live CDs
[09:49] <mae> wazzup.
[09:49] <pitti> mdz: I'd wait with the precise calculation until the new packs are in
[09:49] <mdz> lamont/infinity: around?
[09:49] <Kamion> new filesystems are building for amd64, which should get it under, but I don't think it'll be by much
[09:50] <mdz> pitti: ETA still ~30m?
[09:50] <lamont> mdz: ack
[09:50] <pitti> mdz: yes
[09:50] <mdz> lamont: can you confirm that release architectures are up-to-date?
[09:52] <mdz> Kamion: does that build have the fixed evolution x3?
[09:52] <lamont> mdz: the only DC architecture currently building anything is ia6
[09:52] <lamont> 4
[09:52] <lamont> (yes)
[09:52] <mdz> Kamion: not that it matters for purposes of the bug, but for up-to-dateness
[09:52] <mdz> lamont: thanks
[09:52] <Kamion> mdz: no
[09:53] <lamont> mdz: btw, would be nice to let binary uploads for the other 3 finish before making breezy be read-only
[09:54] <seb128> mdz: sorry I was away for dinner
[09:54] <seb128> mdz: no, nothing pending from me
[09:54] <mdz> seb128: ok, it was clear from reading the bug that it was not for 5.10
[09:54] <seb128> yeah
[09:55] <fabbione> mdz: 5 minutes max and i should know if it works or not (test building all over)
[09:56] <mvo> mdz: I have a pending issue with launchpad-integration that I would like to upload very soon
[09:57] <segfault> ogra: sorry, My connection sucks
[09:57] <ogra> segfault, po files are completely handled by langpacks now...
[09:57] <ogra> segfault, sorry, didnt know that...
[09:58] <segfault> ogra: no prob.. should be one langpack release today, right?
[09:58] <ogra> segfault, and the most recent translations that go into the langpack are from yesterday... :/
[09:58] <Kamion> segfault: it'll get fixed in a langpack update after release; don't stress about it now
[10:01] <thesaltydog> seb128, just to inform you that baobab now has an entry in gnome-bugzilla. Just in case you need, move bugs to there.
[10:02] <fabbione> mdz: permission to upload gs-gpl. it's a no op for all arches. sparc switches to gcc-3.4
[10:02] <fabbione> test builded on amd64/i386
[10:02] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/report.html
[10:02] <Kamion> hmm, odd
[10:04] <fabbione> mdz: up to you if you want to reject it.. i will understand
[10:04] <mdz> fabbione: fine with me
[10:04] <mdz> it's not on the CD
[10:04] <fabbione> o
[10:04] <fabbione> k
[10:04] <fabbione> i care relatively 0 about CD given apt borkage on deb file://
[10:05] <Kamion> ogra: (this xscreensaver fix *is* in a .po file, not in a .desktop file, right?)
[10:05] <ogra> yep
[10:05] <Kamion> ok
[10:05] <pitti> mdz: ok, this was a lot of manual surgery and hacking, but the packs look good now
[10:05] <Riddell> Kamion: the contents of the kubuntu live CDs havn't changed in some days, is it possible to get them rebuilt? (I know you don't control the whole process there but I'm not sure who does)
[10:05] <mdz> Kamion: curious
[10:06] <mdz> Riddell: that's not a good sign; usually that means it's been failing
[10:06] <mdz> unless lamont/infinity disabled the automatic builds
[10:06] <mdz> which would be entirely appropriate
[10:06] <Kamion> Riddell: that's strange; there have been successful automatic Kubuntu live filesystem builds for the last several days on all architectures
[10:07] <Kamion> automatic daily d-i builds have been disabled, but not the live filesystem builds
[10:07] <seb128> thesaltydog: thanks
[10:07] <thesaltydog> seb128, np
[10:07] <pitti> mdz: ok to fire langpacks?
[10:07] <Kamion> ah, the kubuntu daily-live CD builds haven't happened
[10:07] <mdz> pitti: go
[10:07] <lamont> mdz: not disabled
[10:07] <Kamion> http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/kubuntu/Kubuntu-WinFOSS-5.10.tgz:
[10:07] <Kamion> 06:32:09 ERROR 404: Not Found.
[10:07] <Kamion> hno73: ?
[10:07] <mdz> lamont: could you disable then, please?
[10:08] <segfault_> ogra: oops, continuing
[10:08] <Kamion> ah, my typo
[10:08] <segfault_> ogra: can you at least fix the desktop entry?
[10:08] <Kamion> hno73: never mind
[10:08] <lamont> ppc built kubuntu-live fs ~16 hours ago
[10:08] <Kamion> lamont: iz my fault, not yours
[10:08] <lamont> ah, ok
[10:08] <segfault_> ogra: the translated entry is UTF8 while the desktop entry is ISO
[10:09] <ogra> segfault, yes, because th po file is iso
[10:09] <lamont> mdz: livecd fs build for all 3 images getting disabled now.
[10:09] <ogra> the new one i got from rosetta was again iso
[10:09] <Kamion> Riddell: fixed, sorry about that
[10:09] <lamont> disabled.
[10:10] <mdz> lamont: thanks
[10:10] <Riddell> Kamion: can you set off a new build now?
[10:10] <lamont> Kamion: please remember to do a "BuildLiveCD base" for the final images, which will need to get published somewhere and pointed to by the LiveCDCustomization page
[10:10] <Kamion> Riddell: fresh build running now
[10:10] <Riddell> Kamion: excellent, thanks
[10:10] <Kamion> lamont: damn, yeah, I really need to sort that out on cdimage
[10:10] <hno73> Kamion: OK, cool. I'm around if there are issues though
[10:11] <Kamion> hno73: thanks
[10:11] <lamont> 635814893 is the magic am64-live number, btw.
[10:11] <segfault_> ogra: thats strange
[10:12] <segfault_> ogra: oops, weird.
[10:12] <segfault_> i did entirely in UTF8
[10:12] <Kamion> lamont: doesn't seem to have shrunk at all?
[10:12] <lamont> 100KB or so
[10:12] <Kamion> lamont: that's ridiculous; we took 2.5MB out of the contents
[10:13] <mdz> Kamion: not entirely surprising for amd64, since it doesn't get zeroed
[10:13] <Kamion> mdz: lamont explicitly zeroed it, apparently
[10:13] <lamont> mdz: that was after zeroing
[10:13] <segfault_> ogra_: how can we fix that?
[10:13] <mdz> oh
[10:14] <lamont> or at least after what we assert is zeroing...
[10:14] <lamont> Kamion: want me to do another build explicitly nuking it to see if it makes a diff?
[10:14] <Kamion> 20051011, 20051011.1, and 20051011.4 are all the same size within a megabyte, despite the first having python2.4-opengl and the other two not, and the last one being zeroed
[10:14] <Kamion> lamont: yes please
[10:14] <lamont> and then move the old old- back into place?
[10:14] <lamont> ok
[10:14] <Kamion> only move the old old- back into place if it doesn't make a difference ...
[10:14] <ogra> segfault_, it will be fixed with the next langpack update... soon after release i cant do much, the .desktop strings are generated
[10:15] <Kamion> segfault_: .desktop files are not in langpacks
[10:15] <Kamion> ogra: ^--
[10:15] <Kamion> (oopS)
[10:15] <ogra> hmm
[10:15] <lamont> if we use this now-in-progress image, it'll be rsync-unfriendly
[10:15] <ogra> the .desktop file is empty... i'll check
[10:15] <Kamion> that's fine, as long as it's now and not release day
[10:15] <mdz> mvo: talk to me about this launchpad-integration upload
[10:16] <mvo> mdz: the problem is that the current version of lpi triggers a segfault in gnome-terminal (#17309)
[10:16] <segfault_> ogra: thanks
[10:16] <mvo> mdz: the old version (that we had in -rc) gives ugly warnings but doesn't trigger the bug and gnome-terminal works fine
[10:17] <mvo> mdz: the segfault dosn't happen a lot and is hard to reproduce but it happens for people (depending on their working pattern ~1-3 times a day)
[10:17] <mdz> mvo: diff?
[10:17] <mvo> mdz: I don't think it's a bug in the lpi change but a different problem that is triggered by the change
[10:17] <mvo> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/launchpad-integration_0.0patch26+mvo20-0ubuntu2.debdiff
[10:17] <mdz> I haven't had it crash at all
[10:18] <zyga> mvo: might be related to this crash
[10:18] <mdz> mvo: ok, approved, but this means we need to do another set of livefs builds
[10:18] <zyga> mvo: are menu items populated in a async fashion?
[10:18] <mdz> mvo: I hope you are staying around to help test them ;-)
[10:18] <lamont> Kamion: for purposes of the exercise, I'll assume that >500KB is "different"
[10:18] <mvo> mdz: try opening a lot of gnome-terminals (with CTRL-SHIFT-N). you need around ~50. then close them and open them again
[10:18] <zyga> mvo: (in gnome-terminal)
[10:18] <mvo> mdz: promised
[10:18] <pitti> mdz: don't we need another build anyway to fit more langpacks?
[10:19] <mvo> zyga: I don't think so, why?
[10:19] <Kamion> lamont: to make it fit, I need at least two megabytes
[10:19] <mdz> pitti: I was only planning to add them to the install CD
[10:19] <mdz> pitti: adding them to live requires a metapackage update
[10:19] <pitti> mdz: ok
[10:19] <zyga> mvo: type something that looks like a link and right-click on it repetadly
[10:19] <lamont> Kamion: ok
[10:19] <mdz> pitti: do you have a list?
[10:20] <zyga> every 10 clicks or so I can get stuff like duplicated 'open this link' items
[10:20] <pitti> mdz: I can generate one
[10:20] <zyga> or items in random order
[10:20] <pitti> mdz: all langpacks uploaded now
[10:20] <lamont> elmo: ping
[10:20] <mvo> mdz: sorry for the trouble (and the late upload). I hoped until now to find the real cause of the problem so that it can be fixed properly (instead of just not triggering it)
[10:20] <mvo> :/
[10:21] <mvo> zyga: -> #ubuntu-desktop?
[10:21] <pitti> mdz: how much space do we have?
[10:21] <Kamion> pitti: 20:48 < Kamion> 27MB, 47MB, 37MB
[10:21] <Kamion> amd64, i386, powerpc respectively
[10:21] <Kamion> pitti: I'd appreciate it if you could stay 5MB or so clear of the limit, to avoid last-minute problems
[10:21] <pitti> ok, I can make a list based on current (not new) langpacks
[10:22] <pitti> the new packs are not considerably bigger, so I just leave some safety margin
[10:22] <Kamion> add that safety margin to 5MB :-)
[10:22] <pitti> right, of course
[10:22] <pitti> so I'll leave 7 MB?
[10:23] <Kamion> should be fine
[10:23] <pitti> so that is nice: 20, 40, 30 MB :-)
[10:23] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[10:25] <elmo> lamont: ?
[10:27] <mdz> pitti: finished?
[10:27] <mdz> pitti: (uploading)
[10:27] <pitti> mdz: yes; 22:20 <pitti> mdz: all langpacks uploaded now
[10:27] <pitti> mdz: not sure whether all of them are in accepted already, though (but should)
[10:28] <elmo> grr
[10:28] <elmo> NEW packages _now_? :P
[10:28] <mdz> pitti: there's nothing left in unchecked, and I've processed everything from accepted
[10:28] <elmo> I assume these want to go into main?
[10:28] <pitti> great
[10:28] <mdz> pitti: -fo is new, eh?
[10:29] <Kamion> Riddell: you have new kubuntu/daily-live builds
[10:29] <pitti> mdz: oh, hm, entirely possible
[10:29] <Riddell> and i386 is even undersized
[10:29] <pitti> mdz: drop it if it creates trouble
[10:29] <Riddell> thanks Kamion 
[10:29] <mdz> elmo: (yes)
[10:29] <mdz> pitti: seed it
[10:30] <mdz> Kamion,Riddell: kubuntu-live wants to move into universe; bad seed merge?
[10:30] <lamont> elmo: nm
[10:31] <pitti> elmo, mdz: seeded
[10:31] <Kamion> mdz: oh, yeah, my fault, fixing
[10:31] <pitti> elmo, mdz: oops, wait, commit failed; gimme 1 minute
[10:32] <pitti> elmo, mdz: -fo committed
[10:32] <mdz> pitti: and the new packs for the install CD?
[10:34] <ogra> mdz, looks like there are some people upset with the broken pt_BR tanslation (see -devel and the bug)... Kamion said .desktop files are not handled by .po files and i have the fix ready for upload here...
[10:34] <ogra> (tesbuilt and tired)
[10:35] <pitti> mdz: shall I commit the seed changes directly? or do you wnat to take a look at the diff?
[10:35] <mdz> ogra: you said a few minutes ago that this was not a .desktop file
[10:35] <mdz> pitti: go ahead
[10:36] <mdz> ogra: which bug?
[10:36] <ogra> mdz, the translation stuff for that .desktop file is in the po
[10:36] <ogra> 16448
[10:36] <Kamion> oh, what's wrong with the timezone screen now
[10:37] <ogra> mdz, i wasnt aware that .desktop files are not handled by langpacks... the .desktop file in the source is empty (us only) inded 
[10:37] <mdz> ogra: upload it; if we need to build a new livefs anyway we will roll it in, otherwise target breezy-updates
[10:38] <ogra> ok
[10:38] <mdz> ogra: the situation with .desktop files is documented on the release schedule and has been for some time
[10:38] <ogra> mdz, i'll read it immediately
[10:38] <mdz> I also mentioned it in my release status update to -devel when the freeze date arrived
[10:40] <mdz> Kamion: are the new ubuntu livefs builds ready?
[10:41] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[10:41] <Kamion> mdz: but probably not amd64
[10:41] <mdz> Kamion: amd64 will need a new one, or has one already in progress?
[10:42] <Kamion> mdz: in progress, lamont's doing it
[10:43] <mdz> unless it's far along, we might as well redo all 3 and get xscreensaver and launchpad-integration in
[10:43] <Kamion> ok, but I want to see the outcome of lamont's build for size purposes
[10:44] <Kamion> oem-config etc. uploads coming up now; tested, and they worked with one small modification (reloading /var/lib/dpkg/info/base-config.templates because something seems to be trashing the translations from it in the templatedb, and I'm buggered if I'm going to track that down now)
[10:45] <Florob> Sorry to bother you all with a silly user question, but nobody else seems to know: Is there any specific reason, why the caligula themes are not packaged for breezy, or is it just lack of time, or do I miss something obvious.
[10:45] <pitti> mdz, Kamion: I added all langpacks to amd64 and i386, they don't even fill the CD up; powerpc is committed, too
[10:46] <mdz> pitti: excellent
[10:49] <pitti> mdz: the complete lack of langpacks on the live CDs is more worrying, but I guess it's too late for that
[10:50] <Kamion> mdz: what about this xkeyboard-config thing in accepted? daniels checked it with a number of people, it apparently works on all arches, fixes a major bug, but I didn't want to touch the actual approval myself
[10:50] <mdz> pitti: how much could we fit?
[10:50] <mdz> Kamion: not touching it
[10:50] <mdz> no bug refs in the .changes, diff is non-obvious
[10:50] <mdz> too late
[10:51] <Kamion> +    $threelevellayouts, although this is only cosmetic (closes: Ubuntu#13527).
[10:51] <mdz> uploads at this stage are subject to the same criteria that breezy-updates will be
[10:51] <Kamion> (point of information)
[10:51] <mdz> so if it's safe for now, it'd be just as good after release
[10:51] <Kamion> oh, the bug number was typoed
[10:51] <pitti> mdz: none to amd64 apparently, four big ones to i386 and ppc
[10:51] <Kamion> no, I'm just looking in the wrong place
[10:51] <Kamion> +    $threelevellayouts, although this is only cosmetic (closes: Ubuntu#15327).
[10:52] <Kamion> argh, and *that* was typoed too
[10:52] <mdz> Kamion: it was obviously hurried
[10:52] <Kamion> #15372 was the number
[10:52] <mdz> xkb is a nightmare and I want no part of it
[10:52] <seb128> daniels is pinging people all around the place for some days
[10:53] <seb128> and those changes seem to fix the weird issues reported on GNOME and duped according to bugzilla feedback
[10:53] <mdz> seb128: we are releasing now
[10:53] <seb128> (not that I'm pushing them)
[10:53] <seb128> mdz: yeah, I agree that's quite late ... we will get them with -update?
[10:53] <mdz> and there are a bunch of other changes in there as well
[10:54] <mdz> seb128: not enough information for me to predict that
[10:54] <fabbione> i guess it's going to be a long long night
[10:54] <\sh> well...I really admire mdz ... no joke
[10:54] <mdz> seb128: if we can get a minimal, well-tested upload prepared, I don't see why not
[10:55] <mdz> seb128: it's not critical at install time, right?
[10:55] <ogra> \sh, we all do
[10:55] <pitti> mdz: ok, let's not touch the live images to have some safety margin for new uploads and the growing new langpacks
[10:55] <\sh> I think gentoo will say: come on...let's get every untested patch get in...actually it's bleeding egde
[10:55] <seb128> mdz: no
[10:55] <Kamion> mdz: I'll approve the oem-config stuff now
[10:55] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[10:55] <Kamion> then we can get debian-installer built, and then get started on images
[10:55] <mdz> Kamion: gparted is also ->dapper btw
[10:56] <pitti> mdz: is it reasonable to sleep now to start the mega-test in about 8 hours? or is it vital to test them ASAP and crash afterwards?
[10:56] <Kamion> mdz: noted
[10:56] <fabbione> Kamion: any of these 3 udebs will land in the initrd?
[10:56] <Kamion> (I thought it probably was)
[10:56] <Kamion> fabbione: yes
[10:56] <Kamion> fabbione: 21:55 < Kamion> then we can get debian-installer built, and then get started on images
[10:56] <\sh> ogra: no...seriously this guy at ISH? and no changerequest will be fulfilled ;)
[10:56] <mdz> pitti: if you are tired, sleep
[10:56] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. 
[10:56] <Kamion> fabbione: only kbd-chooser is arch: any
[10:57] <fabbione> Kamion: roger
[10:57] <mdz> pitti: save it for tomorrow night ;-)
[10:59] <pitti> mdz: btw, I already tested all images today (I thought it made more sense to be able to actually fix things); no big issues
[11:00] <pitti> mdz: powerpc live did not shut down totally cleanly for me, but it works for other people
[11:00] <Kamion> mdz: I'm uploading the new d-i, but please don't approve it just yet
[11:00] <mdz> Kamion: all yours
[11:00] <mdz> pitti: what was the issue?
[11:01] <pitti> ok, I'm dizzy and tired anyway, I'll crash now and get up early, unless there is some catastrophy
[11:01] <mdz> pitti: good night
[11:01] <pitti> mdz: after ejecting the CD it did not ask for pressing Enter
[11:01] <mdz> pitti: sometimes on powerpc there seems to be a long delay there, but it eventually comes up
[11:01] <pitti> mdz: and didn't react to it, but the autoreboot after 30 seconds, or the ctrl+apple+power worked fine
[11:01] <dholbach> night pitti
[11:01] <seb128> elmo: kbd sync please
[11:01] <seb128> "night pitti
[11:02] <pitti> mdz: no blocker IMHO
[11:02] <mdz> there is no autoreboot that I know of
[11:02] <\sh> pitti: I#m dizzy, too...but heavy dizzy
[11:02] <fabbione> \sh: get some reast
[11:02] <pitti> mdz: ok, then it was just the delayed reaction to my enter press, I guess
[11:02] <fabbione> rest even
[11:02] <mdz> pitti: yes, enter seems to work even when the message does not display quickly
[11:02] <fabbione> \sh: we will need everybodys help tomorrow to test the images
[11:02] <pitti> mdz: I leave my mobile on in case there is some trouble with langpacks
[11:03] <mdz> \sh: drink water and sleep
[11:03] <pitti> good night, cu tomorrow
[11:03] <\sh> mdz: too late..
[11:03] <ogra> mdz, he had to much beer already i suppose :)
[11:03] <fabbione> \sh: close IRC, take a break and relax
[11:03] <pitti> langpack buildd output looks fine :-)
[11:04] <\sh> ogra: don't suppose
[11:04] <ogra> heh
[11:04] <\sh> i had a hard day at work...and forget it..going to bed...good night
[11:05] <ogra> \sh, ciao
[11:05] <dholbach> night \sh
[11:05] <\sh> mdz: appreciate your work...really...I would like to see u as project manager in our company...
[11:05] <ogra> lol
[11:05] <mdz> \sh: thanks, but I think I have enough work for now ;-)
[11:06] <ogra> \sh, what a loss for the world having mdz locked in into ISH
[11:06] <mdz> what is ISH?
[11:06] <ogra> www.ish.de
[11:06] <dholbach> a telco/tv company
[11:06] <HWolf> \sh, we all kind of apprecaite your work too. :)
[11:06] <mvo> night \sh 
[11:06] <HWolf> but without typing errors, really. :)
[11:07] <ogra> mdz, my former company... \sh is one of my former colleagues :)
[11:07] <\sh> HWolf: thx :) but I'm just another guy
[11:07] <mdz> ogra: oh, I didn't realize
[11:07] <ogra> mdz, and actually look at mvo's ip ;)
[11:07] <HWolf> \sh, sure, but doing a lot of work. :)
[11:07] <mdz> telcos can be difficult places to work
[11:08] <fabbione> the telco were i was working before, just crossed 50GB/sec of customer traffic today
[11:08] <\sh> mdz: I'm a stoopid ops guy...who kicks only non working servers and appliences
[11:08] <\sh> fabbione: that's nothing
[11:09] <fabbione> \sh: only customers.. without services and anything else.. the real traffic is way higher :)
[11:09] <ogra> fabbione, ISH has 4.5 mio customers...
[11:10] <fabbione> ogra: ISH is not a Tier-1
[11:10] <fabbione> anyway
[11:10] <ogra> nope, they are a cable company that also provides voip and internet
[11:10] <fabbione> sorry i did drag you offtopic
[11:11] <\sh> fabbione: yeah for us, too :) only 30 analog tv streams..and finally 20 transport streams with aehm...20x20 dtv streams..fcking scary when I'm rebooting the scramblers for p0rn stuff
[11:11] <\sh> fabbione: u would have fun :)
[11:11] <fabbione> \sh: get a sleep.. on the unscrambled p0rn ;)
[11:12] <\sh> ah...btw
[11:13] <fabbione> \sh: -> GO TO SLEEP
[11:13] <mdz> lamont: is there a reasonable way for me to check up-to-dateness for myself, using stuff in http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/ perhaps?
[11:13] <\sh> fabbione: YES SIR ;)
[11:13] <fabbione> \sh: you need some rest and we need you fresh tomorrow
[11:13] <\sh> fabbione: well..no prob...I'll have to work at 4 UTC
[11:14] <\sh> quit
[11:18] <mdz> Kamion: is the winfoss issue resolved, or do we need hno73?
[11:18] <mdz> I have his phone number somewhere if so
[11:19] <hno73> mdz: I'm here
[11:19] <hno73> mdz: I made new uploads today, so I think it's resolved
[11:20] <hno73> if not let me know
[11:21] <Riddell> what's the winfoss issue and does it affect kubuntu?
[11:23] <hno73> Riddell: 'too much of it'
[11:23] <hno73> Riddell: AFAICT your ADM image still looks rather big ...
[11:23] <mdz> hno73: reading the log, yes, it looks like Kamion worked out what was wrong and we're OK
[11:23] <hno73> ok
[11:23] <mdz> hno73: he was getting a 404 trying to get a tarball I think, but I guess the URL was wrong or similar
[11:23] <hno73> Riddell: AMD64 even
[11:24] <hno73> The URL might be wrong in the bugzilla entry
[11:24] <mdz> Riddell: yep, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/breezy-install-amd64.OVERSIZED
[11:24] <mdz> Riddell: looks like you have some trimming to do, if that's up-to-date
[11:25] <Riddell> mdz: yep, top of my TODO list after testing the live CDs
[11:25] <hno73> mdz: It's all sitting nicely here: http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/
[11:27] <Kamion> mdz: it's resolved for Ubuntu, AFAIK
[11:27] <Kamion> lamont's latest build is MUCH smaller
[11:28] <Kamion> like, 81MB smaller
[11:28] <Riddell> Kamion: is kubuntu using the image at http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/ ?
[11:28] <Kamion> we could probably go back to using the i386 build on amd64 for Ubuntu, in fact
[11:28] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, as I said before
[11:28] <Kamion>                                                                 echo http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/kubuntu/current/Kubuntu-WinFOSS-5.10.tgz
[11:28] <Kamion>                                                                 echo http://www.theopencd.org/winfoss/kubuntu-AMD/current/Kubuntu-WinFOSS-5.10-AMD.tgz
[11:28] <Riddell> Kamion: great
[11:29] <fabbione> ok guys
[11:29] <mdz> Kamion: that's, err, worryingly smaller
[11:29] <fabbione> i am off to sleep
[11:29] <Kamion> mdz: it's not much bigger than the i386 image, though
[11:29] <fabbione> mdz/Kamion: i have my mobile phone with me if something shows up
[11:29] <mdz> Kamion: where did 81M come from?
[11:29] <Kamion> lamont: have you by any chance only been e2fs-zero.py'ing the amd64 image for some time, not removing the old- cloop?
[11:29] <mdz> fabbione: ok, good night
[11:29] <fabbione> otherwise i will be back in 6 or less
[11:29] <fabbione> night
[11:30] <Kamion> hno73: yeah, the URL was wrong in bugzilla, but it's fixed in cdimage now
[11:31] <hno73> cool
[11:31] <Kamion> lamont: also, could you take the thing you just did to the Ubuntu amd64 image and do it to Kubuntu amd64 as well, please?
[11:32] <Kamion> mdz: I think we've just been using sladen's zeroing script for a while, and not realising that it hadn't in fact been working properly
[11:34] <Kamion> so, with 66MB difference between the WinFOSS tarballs (as of last download), 81MB decrease in cloop size, and amd64 only being 8MB over, I think we can switch amd64 back to the tarball including OOo2
[11:35] <Kamion> mdz: (FWIW, my mobile's AWOL at the moment; use my landline on Offices if you need to call)
[11:36] <hno73> Kamion: or I can make an AMD tarball like the i386 one, but sans gaim, saving ~7MB
[11:37] <Kamion> hno73: it appears that the i386 tarball will now fit on the amd64 live CD, though
[11:38] <hno73> Kamion: cool, all the better
[11:38] <Kamion> so if we're not going to be adding more langpacks to the live CDs (mdz?) then we might as well use the space for WinFOSS
[11:38] <lamont> Kamion: 550601665
[11:38] <lamont> wow.  sladen's code is b0rked.
[11:38] <Kamion> lamont: how long have we been relying on sladen's code for amd64 reduction?
[11:38] <lamont> Kamion: the solution is to reset
[11:38] <Kamion> (by hand or otherwise)
[11:38] <lamont> Kamion: for my manual reductions
[11:39] <lamont> ia64 has been doing it automatically, none of the others have
[11:39] <Kamion> lamont: put another way, when did you last manually reset, roughly?
[11:39] <lamont> Kamion: breezy never reset, other than when I ran sladen's code 2-3 weeks ago
[11:39] <Kamion> mdz: I think that explains it
[11:39] <lamont> (64-bit arch that is...32 is always)
[11:40] <Kamion> lamont: ok, definitely please do that for amd64 then
[11:40] <Kamion> lamont: er, for Kubuntu I mean
[11:40] <lamont> kubuntu to happen, ubuntu already happened.
[11:40] <Kamion> yep
[11:40] <lamont> kubuntu to happen, ubuntu already happened.
[11:40] <lamont> ga
[11:40] <lamont> ubuntu already done
[11:41] <lamont> actually, next kubuntu (and base) loads on ubuntu will already get fresh fsimages.
[11:41] <ajmitch> morning
[11:41] <lamont> Kamion: unless you say "no", I'm going to nuke all 3 on ia64 and start a fresh build of all 3
[11:41] <Kamion> lamont: fine by me
[11:41] <lamont> ok
[11:42] <Kamion> hno73: I'll keep using the special amd64 tarball on Kubuntu for the meantime
[11:42] <Kamion> as it's tighter on space
[11:43] <hno73> Kamion: OK, will you need me for urgent stuff into the night or can I retire :)
[11:43] <lamont> and on that note, must go away for a few hours... back online in approx 7 hours give or take....
[11:43] <lamont> last call
[11:45] <Riddell> Kamion: does that mean I can expect new kubuntu amd64 live CD sometime soon?  I'm a little lost
[11:46] <Kamion> 21:56 < mdz> pitti: if you are tired, sleep
[11:46] <Kamion> 21:57 < mdz> pitti: save it for tomorrow night ;-)
[11:46] <Kamion> hno73: that goes for you too, I think :)
[11:46] <hno73> Kamion: oki :)
[11:46] <lamont> Kamion: ia64 building all 3, I launched no amd64 build besides that test-now-really-it amd64 ubunut
[11:46] <Kamion> lamont: I will start Kubuntu amd64 now, then
[11:47] <Kamion> actually, Kubuntu amd64/i386/powerpc
[11:47] <lamont> and remember base :-)
[11:47] <lamont> (not that we much care - if ubuntu builds, base will)
[11:47] <Kamion> yep
[11:47] <lamont> later then
[11:48] <Kamion> Riddell: in progress, yes
[11:50] <Kamion> fabbione: be careful to upload kbd-chooser before building debian-installer
[11:50] <Kamion> I'm assuming fabbione doesn't autosign
[11:51] <segfault> ogra: thanks! :-)
[11:52] <segfault> ogra: but did you get that po from Rosetta? the diff seems completely different from what i did. But there's no encoding problems, it's ok for breezy.
[11:53] <segfault> :)
[11:53] <ogra> segfault, thats the rosetta po file, converted to utf-8 and the encoding string fixed
[11:54] <ogra> i have no idea how to tell rosetta to give it to me as utf-8 sadly...
[11:54] <segfault> file pt_BR.po
[11:54] <segfault> pt_BR.po: UTF-8 Unicode PO (gettext message catalogue) text
[11:54] <Kamion> that's what msgconv's for
[11:54] <segfault> i sent it as utf8, dunno what happened
[11:55] <mdz> Kamion: might as well go for a fuller winfoss bundle, yeah
[11:55] <Kamion> I think Rosetta always outputs in the encoding that's published in the archive for that .po file if it can
[11:55] <Kamion> it probably should have a fallback case for if the text isn't fully representable in that encoding
[12:00] <HiddenWolf> guys, current dist-upgrade...
[12:00] <HiddenWolf> 29 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[12:00] <HiddenWolf> Need to get 32.7MB of archives.
[12:00] <HiddenWolf> After unpacking 26.8MB disk space will be freed.
[12:00] <HiddenWolf> 26mb will be _freed_ ?
[12:01] <zyga> HiddenWolf: what was updated?