[01:54] <Seveas> !meeting delete DocTeam
[01:55] <Seveas> !meeting delete DocTeam
[02:38] <mdke> the candidate is BeniaminoCaputo, he has been one of (if not the main) driving forces behind the reorganisation of the italian locoteam, and has contributed to the recent release of the italian website by essentially admining the forum (including writing a from-scratch Ubuntu theme). Everything else that supports his application I think is detailed on his wiki page.
[02:39] <mdke> whoops, wrong window
[03:56] <Seveas> 4 minutes to CC
[03:56] <Seveas> No CC members have arrived yet :)
[03:57] <Mizar> Hi all
[03:57] <Seveas> hi Mizar 
[03:57] <zakame> hi all! =)
[03:57] <jsgotangco> Seveas, you can moderate though =)
[03:58] <\sh> CC meeting now?
[03:58] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:59] <jsgotangco> we can wait in a few
[03:59] <Seveas> the calendar says so
[03:59] <Kamion> I'm busy with a hideous last-minute installer bug; I'll lurk but may not be paying attention
[03:59] <Seveas> Kamion, we'll ping you when a vote is needed :)
[03:59] <ogra> do we have quorum ? 
[04:00] <Seveas> not right now
[04:00] <ogra> so probably votes wont be needed at all 
[04:00] <\sh> ogra: mjg59 voting to TB ;)
[04:00] <Seveas> sabdfl and elmo are active
[04:00] <Seveas> mako not
[04:00] <Kamion> it's early for mako
[04:00] <\sh> and I wanted to go home now...
[04:01] <ogra> \sh, TB != CC
[04:01] <jsgotangco> speak of the devil
[04:01] <zakame> heh
[04:01] <ogra> speaking of the devil :)
[04:01] <\sh> ogra: check CC agenda...mjgs election to TB is for CC to vote
[04:01] <Seveas> mako, !
[04:01] <mako> who else is here from the council?
[04:01] <Seveas> kamion
[04:01] <Kamion> I'm here, but busy with a last-minute installer bug, so was hoping to lurk
[04:01] <Seveas> elmo and sabdfl have idle times of 3 resp 17 minutes
[04:02] <Kamion> elmo is in the datacentre today; he'll probably notice a ping shortly
[04:02] <jsgotangco> there
[04:02] <sabdfl> hi all
[04:02] <Seveas> and that's 3 :)
[04:02] <zakame> hi sabdfl 
[04:03] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl
[04:03] <Tonio-> hi all
[04:03] <Seveas> welcome sabdfl 
[04:03] <bddebian> Heya Tonio-
[04:03] <\sh> moin moin sabdfl 
[04:03] <mako> sabdfl: greetings
[04:03] <sabdfl> ok, mako, will you chair?
[04:03] <Seveas> \begin{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
[04:03] <Seveas> Hello everybody, welcome to the Community Council Meeting. The meeting will start in a few minutes (hopefully). The agenda for today can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda. Please stick to the agenda and don't go off-topic CC meetings take lang enough already. All member candidates, make sure your wikipage is up-to-date and prepare a 3 line introduction (which you will have
[04:03] <Seveas>  to give in this channel) describing your past contributions to Ubuntu, your plans and your vision of the Ubuntu feature. Make sure you ALREADY are on the launchpad Ubuntu members page and that you upload a signed copy of the CoC as soon as possible. Everybody who has an item on the agenda please prepare a few lines describing it so you can easily paste it in the channel later to give everybody an
[04:03] <Seveas>  overview. LocoTeam leaders, prepare a few lines in which you describe the status of your team, what your team is currently doing and what the plans are.
[04:03] <mako> i'd be hpapy to 
[04:04] <Seveas> \end{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
[04:04] <Seveas> Everybody please state your real name for the record
[04:04] <mako> i'm Benjamin Mako Hill
[04:04] <dholbach> i'm Daniel Holbach
[04:04] <Mizar> --> BeniaminoCaputo
[04:05] <mako> is smurf here with us today?
[04:05] <mako> yes
[04:05] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:05] <mako> smurf: cool
[04:05] <smurf> mako: ;-)
[04:05] <mako> i just woke up here :) 
[04:05] <Seveas> Hmm, looks like none of the locoteamcontacts on the agenda are here yet
[04:05] <fabbione> ops
[04:06] <mako> it would be nice to talk to the folks there
[04:06] <mako> smurf: anything to report from the loco front?
[04:06] <smurf> I'll try to ping them; I'd say we proceed with the rest of the agenda in the meantime
[04:06] <mako> alright
[04:06] <mako> new candidates
[04:06] <Tonio-> I'm Anthony Mercatante
[04:07] <Seveas> As far as I can see, only one of the new candidates is here
[04:07] <Seveas> BeniaminoCaputo -- Mizar 
[04:07] <mako> this is a pretty thin showing :)
[04:07] <Seveas> bigcx2
[04:07] <Mizar> I'm here.
[04:07] <mako> Mizar: alright
[04:08] <mako> Mizar: you're up.. want to tell us about yourself in relation to ubuntu?
[04:08] <Mizar> Ok
[04:08] <Mizar> I'm admin of italian mailing list, admin of italian forum, member of Italian LoCoTeam, member of Italian Documentation group and italian translation group in Rosetta and obviously I try to support Ubuntu users in irc, mailing list and forum.
[04:08] <Kamion> Matthew East couldn't make it today, but he asked me to pass on a comment about Mizar
 the candidate is BeniaminoCaputo, he has been one of (if not the main) driving forces behind the reorganisation of the italian locoteam, and has  contributed to the recent release of the italian website by essentially admining the forum (including writing a from-scratch Ubuntu theme). Everything else  that supports his application I think is detailed on his wiki page.
[04:09] <jsgotangco> yeah +1 on the ubuntu-it website
[04:09] <fabbione> Mizar: url to the italian site please?
[04:09] <Mizar> mmm thanks to Matthew.
[04:09] <smurf>  +1 from me too
[04:09] <Seveas> ubuntu-it.org
[04:09] <Mizar> www.ubuntu-it.org wiki.ubuntu-it.org forum.ubuntu-it.org
[04:09] <jsgotangco> they updated it just in time for breezy release
[04:09] <Seveas> Mizars wiki page looks nice
[04:10] <Mizar> We have release 3 distinct sites .. yesterday.
[04:10] <Seveas> assuming he's not lying he would imho be a valuable addition
[04:10] <Seveas> ;)
[04:10] <mako> it looks very nice :)
[04:10] <sabdfl> +1 on Mizar from me, for his help in getting the Italian Job off the ground again
[04:10] <Mizar> And now we have to improve and extend this sites.
[04:11] <bddebian> The Italian Job. Heh
[04:11] <fabbione> Mizar: +1.. well done
[04:11] <Kamion> Mizar: you might want to coordinate with the Firefox maintainer, Ian Jackson, on your default bookmark suggestions
[04:11] <jsgotangco> maybe the ItalianTeam can also help the other locoteams on best practices
[04:11] <Mizar> Thanks.
[04:11] <Mizar> Ok ... Kamion.
[04:11] <mako> Mizar: any sort of vision for the future of ubuntu and a way to fit in it?
[04:12] <mako> Mizar: also, was your re-org mostly limited to website reorganization (just a question)
[04:13] <Mizar> I have no particular indication.
[04:13] <mako> the documentation and translations looks good :)
[04:13] <Mizar> Think to improve hardware recognition .... extend documentation .
[04:13] <Mizar> Thinks like this.
[04:14] <mako> Mizar: how long have you been involved in the team?
[04:14] <Tonio-> back in five minutes... work emergency
[04:14] <Diablo-D3> this meeting is just about locolization?
[04:14] <Mizar> To the begin.
[04:14] <Mizar> I know Andrea Abelli ..
[04:14] <ogra> Diablo-D3, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[04:14] <Seveas> Mizar, what are your plans for ubuntu/ubuntu-it?
[04:14] <Kamion> Diablo-D3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[04:14] <bddebian> Diablo-D3: This meeting is about the Ubuntu Community :-)
[04:15] <Mizar> And I have try to make it return in the team.
[04:15] <Mizar> s/it/him
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> bddebian: hehe
[04:16] <Mizar> Hard to do a plain for ubuntu-it. :)
[04:16] <Mizar> You know about italian people.
[04:16] <Seveas> italian temper
[04:16] <Mizar> I try to do an organizationt that cooperate and work good togheter.
[04:17] <Seveas> sounds cool
[04:17] <Seveas> Kamion, mako, opinions/votes?
[04:17] <Mizar> But ... I'm not alone in this .... MatthewEast FabioMarzocca LorenzoSfarra ... work with me ... for this.
[04:17] <mako> anyway.. i appreciate your work and happy with your wiki page and mdke's recommendation so that's a vote in favor from me
[04:18] <Kamion> likewise, I'm very glad to see the Italian team calming down after my memory of the early days :-)
[04:18] <Kamion> (+1)
[04:18] <Seveas> great, welcome aboard Mizar !
[04:18] <sabdfl> cool
[04:18] <sabdfl> welcome, Mizar
[04:18] <Seveas> Who does launchpad business today?
[04:18] <Mizar> Thanks ... very much.
[04:18] <jsgotangco> kudos Mizar
[04:19] <mako> Seveas: a number of us can.. sabdfl did it at the last couple meetings i think
[04:19] <mako> i've done it in the past too
[04:19] <Seveas> Then there's only one item left, given that no one from the forums is here
[04:19] <sabdfl> i can
[04:19] <Kamion> I'll do it, shall I
[04:19] <mako> i have two LP accounts and can never remember which one has this permissions :)
[04:19] <sabdfl> go ahead :-)
[04:19] <sabdfl> mako: merge them!
[04:19] <Seveas> mako, you can merge them
[04:20] <Seveas> lol :)
[04:20] <ogra> merge :)
[04:20] <Seveas> mako, launchpad can cure split personalities ;)
[04:20] <dholbach> hehe
[04:20] <mako> i've been meaning to. i didn't actually realize i had two until recently.. i was just pretty confused
[04:20] <Diablo-D3> I like the concept of launchpad... only problem is not enough projects use it
[04:20] <Kamion> benjamin approved in lp
[04:20] <mako> Diablo-D3: there are people working on fixing that
[04:20] <mako> so, are there any prospective new member with their name on the wiki that are here?
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> being able to intergrate this in remote bugzillas and the debian db is great, but, still, its not the same thing
[04:21] <Seveas> Diablo-D3, please stay on topic
[04:21] <mako> seb payne, chris cole, zarul shahrin?
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> sorry
[04:21] <dholbach> mako: Anthony Mercatante?
[04:21] <Kamion> seb payne said he'd turn up in 40 minutes from now
[04:21] <ogra> dholbach, he's not listed
[04:21] <Kamion> erm, no, 1 hour and 40 minutes
[04:22] <Kamion> assuming he really meant GMT
[04:22] <dholbach> Tonio-: didnt you add yourself?
[04:22] <ogra> dholbach, he needs to be listed on the agenda too
[04:22] <dholbach> mako: seb payne is spayne but apparently not here
[04:22] <mako> alright
[04:22] <mako> lets move on
[04:22] <Seveas> Last item on the agenda: Initiation of voting to confirm Matthew Garrett appointment to Technical Board.
[04:22] <mako> Tonio-: we can't really have 
[04:22] <arzajac> What about the ubuntuforums^
[04:22] <Seveas> arzajac, ubuntu-geek is not here
[04:22] <mako> people adding new members to the agenda in the middle.. sort of a bad precedent i think'
[04:23] <mako> yeah.. i feel like we skipped a bunch of items
[04:23] <dholbach> Tonio-: :-(
[04:23] <Tonio-> dholbach: I subscribe maybe 15 minutes ago not more, crazy day...
[04:23] <mako> Seveas: lets at least go through and decide not to handle things for things that can be stated in the log
[04:23] <Kamion> I don't understand why mjg59's TB appointment is being brought here
[04:23] <Seveas> mako, right
[04:23] <sabdfl> Kamion: it isn't, this is just the start of voting
[04:23] <Kamion> TB appointments are confirmed by the maintainers, surely?
[04:23] <sabdfl> i'll publish the details in a mail to ubuntu-devel shortly
[04:24] <Kamion> ok
[04:24] <Seveas> sabdfl, do all members get to vote?
[04:24] <sabdfl> Seveas: no, for TB, it's all developers
[04:24] <Seveas> or only maintainers?
[04:24] <Seveas> ok
[04:24] <sabdfl> for CC, all members
[04:24] <mako> sabdfl: details on the MJG59 appointment?
[04:24] <Diablo-D3> I'm not a ubuntu developer, but I do think mjc59 should get appointed to the Technical Board.
[04:25] <sabdfl> mako: nomination
[04:25] <sabdfl> we need to expand the TB a little
[04:25] <sabdfl> i've discussed it with mdz and others, and mjg59 is very widely regarded, i think he is an excellent candidate
[04:25] <mako> ok, right.. i missed that we never started the forums topic
[04:26] <sabdfl> forums topic?
[04:26] <Seveas> mako, ubuntu-geek is not here
[04:26] <mako> sabdfl: i think it's a very good choice
[04:26] <sabdfl> oh, the follow on
[04:26] <Seveas> it would be pointless to start without him
[04:26] <jsgotangco> ogra, hahaha
[04:26] <ogra> :)
[04:26] <arzajac> Seveas:  Not pointless.  He left some documents on the agenda.
[04:26] <Diablo-D3> mjc59 has done a lot for Ubuntu, and I think he could do even more if he joins the TB
[04:27] <azeem> ...
[04:27] <mako> alright
[04:27] <arzajac> The documenta are a work in progress and perhaps some comments from the CC would be helpful, at this point.
[04:27] <mako> sabdfl: so short of an announcment, what needs to be handled here?
[04:27] <Seveas> ogra, lol@dccalliance.biz :)
[04:27] <sabdfl> mako: nothing, except to declare the ballot as open as soon as I can load the details into Launchpad
[04:28] <sabdfl> vote will run for two weeks, giving mjg59 the chance to speak to people at next week's TB
[04:28] <sabdfl> gosh
[04:28] <sabdfl> are we done with members, just waiting for ubuntugeek?
[04:28] <mako> i think it's a great idea to get bring someone from the communkty on that board, to expand the board, and to recognize matthew contributions :)
[04:28] <mako> anyway!
[04:29] <Seveas> There are no other thing left on the agenda that can be treated now sabdfl 
[04:29] <sabdfl> further suggestions welcome
[04:29] <hno73> arzajac: can you explain the forum issue?
[04:29] <mako> apparently, the only thing left for today is forums stuff
[04:29] <sabdfl> let's look at those documents in the meanwhile
[04:29] <hno73> (he is a core forum member)
[04:29] <jsgotangco> gosh and we have a good community presence at the moment...
[04:29] <mako> Seveas: i'm not sure that no treatment at all is the best situation.. we've had a short meetings, we can take some time to look over things
[04:29] <arzajac> hno73:  It is all on the agenda page.
[04:29] <mako> Seveas: even if we hold off for ryan to go over this in more depth
[04:30] <Seveas> arzajac, con you maybe ping ryan?
[04:30] <Kamion> hno73: um, for the avoidance of doubt, arzajac is very firmly on one side of the debate, not a neutral observer :-)
[04:30] <Kamion> we had all this last meeting
[04:30] <hno73> Kamion: ok, thanks 
[04:31] <Kamion> ok, I agree with arzajac that the ombudsmen's decisions when grievances are specifically brought to them need to be enforceable, otherwise there seems little point in having them
[04:32] <Kamion> I don't agree that the ombudsmen should be obliged to monitor the forums more actively than the moderation team, as the second comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumResolutionTeam seems to imply
[04:33] <mako> i'd like to see someone who has historically been outside of the forum community but who is respected inside the larger ubuntu community to particpate no dispute resolutions in the forums
[04:33] <mako> i think that level of cross-fertilization in these sorts of groups can be healthy
[04:33] <Kamion> it's the moderators' job to keep on top of that - ombudsmen should ideally be a little further away from things in order to keep a neutral point of view, IMO
[04:33] <arzajac> Kamion:  I think the point is that they could serve as more than just a complaint department, but as a ressource for the administrators.
[04:34] <Kamion> arzajac: it seems unnecessary to conflate those two things ...
[04:34] <arzajac> OK.
[04:34] <Kamion> I dunno, I'm not invoking any kind of authority here to say "don't do that", it just seems unnecessary and possibly unwise to me. FWIW.
[04:35] <Kamion> other than that, it seems to me from your wiki page that there's a fair possibility of agreement here, following a bit more discussion
[04:35] <smurf> arzajac: Being a complaints department is what an umbudsman is there for; if the people involved want to contribute in other areas, they can certainly do so individually
[04:36] <Kamion> mako: from the point of view of having neutrality in the resolution process, that seems pretty sensible
[04:36] <arzajac> Karmion. Yes, Ryan and I have had some conversations about this in the past two weeks.
[04:36] <mako> i haven't ready it *very* carefully but have looked it over twice and both (esp, the first one) seems quite common sense
[04:36] <Kamion> arzajac: ok, good
[04:36] <arzajac> Smurf:  Ryan is often swa,ped.  My feeling is that a "public relations" committe would be useful to him.
[04:36] <arzajac> swamped
[04:37] <mako> i'd like to talk to ryan and maybe have some more people from the forums sort of step forward and say that they think that this will adequately address issues from the recent past
[04:37] <Kamion> some of the technical support policies seem like they might be better phrased as guidelines
[04:37] <smurf> arzajac: that doesn't necessarily mean the mbudsmen should do it ;-)
[04:37] <Kamion> but that's just a matter of wording really
[04:37] <mako> since the forums are one part of the community i spent very little time, i'm not entirely confident in my own ability to look at potential solutions to problems and evaluate their effectiveness.. i'd like to see what the community has to say
[04:38] <arzajac> mako:  How about starting a thread in the ubuntufourms site discussion section about this?
[04:38] <mako> arzajac: have these been discssed there yet?
[04:38] <sabdfl> arzajac: as i understood it, the admin team has ryan as "chairman", and the ombudsman team effectively reports to the admin team
[04:38] <sabdfl> is that your understanding too?
[04:38] <mako> azeem: or your additions?
[04:39] <arzajac> sabdfl:  It is a clear as it is on the document from Ryan.  I dunno.
[04:40] <mako> alright.. 
[04:40] <arzajac> mako:  There has not really been any formal discussion about it with the forum users.
[04:40] <mako> i'm not sure we're going to get a decision today
[04:40] <arzajac> Like I said, these documents are a work in progress...
[04:40] <mako> can we summarize/offer what we think should be done before we talk about with this with ryan?
[04:40] <sabdfl> in general, i like the direction ryan is going, and i also think some of arzajac's questions need answering
[04:40] <mako> ne
[04:40] <sabdfl> i think there should be more than 3 ombudsmen, but any 3 should be able to rule on something
[04:41] <sabdfl> so you don't have to get all of them together to get a decision
[04:41] <sabdfl> encourage members of the community who are very active to become ombudsmen
[04:41] <mako> i'd like to suggest having the conflict resolution stuff should be a little more independent of the existing forums cabal for neutralitieis sake :)
[04:41] <sabdfl> sort of a frst step towards being moderators / admins
[04:41] <sabdfl> mako: the CC exists to give that neutrality
[04:42] <Seveas> mako/sabdfl indeed -- moderators should not be ombudsmen
[04:42] <sabdfl> i don't think the proposed ombudsmen would be in a position to resolve the conflict we saw between moderators and admins
[04:42] <arzajac> If you want to impact the forum community, maybe we should start a thread there and participate in it over the next few days....
[04:42] <mako> sabdfl: the CC has a rather poor record of dealing well with forums dispute.. we have a pretty poor vision in that area
[04:42] <sabdfl> mako: so what we asked ryan to come up with is a reasonable governance structure internal to the forums
[04:42] <smurf> sabdfl: maybe not resolve, but mediate -- and perhaps that's enough
[04:43] <sabdfl> in addition, we asked him to have a "board", on which he would have only a casting vote, not absolute authority
[04:43] <sabdfl> and even that would report to the CC
[04:43] <arzajac> smurf:  Deffinitely, having things in the open is good.
[04:43] <rejden> smurf, heya 
[04:43] <\sh> sabdfl: then it should be installed for all active official ubuntu-forums...
[04:43] <mako> yes, i understand how the discussion has gone so far
[04:43] <sabdfl> we also asked the forums guys to change their policy w.r.t. hiding and removing debate
[04:43] <sabdfl> i see evidence of good work from ryan in the right direction here
[04:44] <rejden> smurf, sorry i have many meetings ;/
[04:44] <arzajac> +1
[04:44] <sabdfl> arzajac: i disagree with your comment that "the FRT should have authority over the administration"
[04:44] <sabdfl> it should be:
[04:44] <sabdfl> Baby Jesus
[04:44] <ogra> really ? 
[04:44] <Seveas> hm?
[04:44] <sabdfl>   CC & SABDFL
[04:44] <sabdfl>     Forum Admins Team & Ryan
[04:44] <sabdfl>       Ombudsmen
[04:45] <sabdfl> oh, you guys weren't in Oxford
[04:45] <Seveas> ah 
[04:45] <jsgotangco> baby jesus?
[04:45] <sabdfl> oxford...
[04:45] <Kamion> sabdfl: do you not think that ombudsmen's decisions on grievances should be final within the forums, then?
[04:45] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: baby jesus trumps all
[04:45] <sabdfl> Kamion: it might happen that they take a really bad decision
[04:45] <sabdfl> especially if you encourage more folks to become ombudsmen, and you get a mini-cabal
[04:45] <Kamion> sabdfl: I wouldn't put it the same way arzajac did w.r.t. authority, but I do think that there's little point in having them unless they can enforce their decisions
[04:45] <sabdfl> it can happen
[04:46] <Kamion> sabdfl: that seems like the sort of thing that ought to come up to CC & SABDFL
[04:46] <sabdfl> i would expect it to be very rare for the admins team to want to overrule, and same for the CC on the admins team
[04:46] <arzajac> sabdfl:  Well, remember last meeting?
[04:46] <sabdfl> yes, very well, what about it?
[04:47] <Kamion> if ombudsmen's decisions were public and any admin overruling were also public, then we could leave it as it is and see how it goes
[04:47] <Kamion> bad behaviour on the part of the admin team would become clear pretty quickly
[04:47] <arzajac> The issue of the administration of the forum is mostly that they need to be accountable to someone
[04:47] <smurf> Kamion: +1
[04:48] <arzajac> Right.  If everyting is in the open, that solves a lot of problems... I agree.
[04:48] <arzajac> So the accountability would stem from everyti8ng being in the open.
[04:49] <sabdfl> and the CC being able to overrule the admins team
[04:49] <sabdfl> as we basically did last time, in asking them to make their discussions public
[04:49] <sabdfl> and not delete / hide posts that were partial
[04:50] <mako> right
[04:50] <arzajac> sabdfl:  with fine tuning the FRT jurisdiction to avoid every little problem making it's way to the Community Council agenda.
[04:51] <mako> i think we're covering ground that we've already been on in this discussion and i think Seveas was right that we really need Ryan or others from teh admin team here here to finish with this discussion
[04:51] <Kamion> mako: yeah, agreed
[04:51] <arzajac> +1
[04:51] <mako> i will make sure that ryan reads this log and we can plan a special meeting with a subset of interested folks if that's easier or revisit this at the next meeting
[04:51] <mako> so...
[04:51] <mako> is there any other business?
[04:52] <Seveas> did you get my pm?
[04:52] <sabdfl> arzajac: i think we would just refuse to deal with stuff that the admins team had already considered that did not look interesting to the CC
[04:52] <sabdfl> sec
[04:52] <jsgotangco> err BreezyReleaseParty plans?
[04:52] <Seveas> jsgotangco, do you have any?
[04:52] <sabdfl> the appointment of ombudsmen does need to be clarified, it's not clear
[04:52] <mako> jsgotangco: i should plan one of those
[04:52] <arzajac> ok.
[04:52] <jsgotangco> Seveas, not really, just have people announce their plans during the meeting i guess
[04:53] <sabdfl> we have the launchpad voting system, if you want to use it
[04:53] <mako> well, i'll have one in boston this weekend
[04:53] <jsgotangco> we're just 2 days away from release
[04:53] <sabdfl> london on friday night
[04:53] <jsgotangco> mako, in the acetarium??? hehe
[04:53] <mako> jsgotangco: probably, yes
[04:53] <mako> any other release parties?
[04:53] <mako> watch ubuntu planet for details on my party
[04:53] <sabdfl> tons on the wiki page
[04:53] <mako> right
[04:53] <mako> bddebian: nice :)
[04:54] <mako> alright then
[04:54] <mako> last call for ANY OTHER BUSINESS
[04:54] <Seveas> short meeting then :)
[04:54] <ogra> yeah
[04:54] <\sh> ogra: place for mvo ? ,-
[04:54] <Seveas> mako, one thing in private message left, but nothing in here :)
[04:54] <mako> Seveas: the thing about lilo?
[04:54] <ogra> \sh, sure
[04:55] <mako> Seveas: that doesn't need to be handled here dude
[04:55] <\sh> mvo: u have a big one, or a private one?
[04:55] <mako> Seveas: we can just talk later today and handle it
[04:55] <ogra> \sh, you two would have to share the guest room... but an extra air bed is always available 
[04:55] <mako> anyway
[04:55] <Seveas> mako, ah great, didn't know/expect that you would be around 
[04:55] <mako> alright then
[04:55] <mako> yeah.. its show and tell day at the media lab
[04:55] <mako> but i should be on IRC :)
[04:55] <mvo> \sh: medium I except: http://www.das-labor.org/
[04:55] <mako> i'm missing it now
[04:56] <mako> will be running off
[04:56] <mako> cycle says
[04:56] <mako> next meeting is October 25, UTC22
[04:56] <mvo> s/except/expect/
[04:56] <jsgotangco> yay
[04:56] <mako> thanks to everyone for showing up :)
[04:56] <ogra> thanks mako :)
[04:56] <Seveas> !meeting set CommunityCouncil 25 Oct 22:00
[04:56] <jsgotangco> great
[04:56] <mako> Seveas: whoa.. that's cool
[04:57] <\sh> mvo: hehe...if it was a private one, i would say, come along ;)
[04:57] <mako> alright.. time to bike in the rain
[04:57] <mako> joy
[04:57] <mako> later all
[04:57] <Seveas> mako, yeah, a midnight-couldn't-sleep-hacksession brought that up :)
[04:58] <thesaltydog> sorry for the dealy..
[04:58] <jsgotangco> thesaltydog, we just ended
[04:58] <Seveas> thesaltydog, meeting is already over :)
[04:58] <thesaltydog> ok... :-(
[04:58] <thesaltydog> next time.
[04:58] <thesaltydog> I was engaged in office..
[04:58] <zakame> thesaltydog: awww
[04:58] <HiddenWolf> thesaltydog, the office, openoffice, or MS Office? :P
[04:59] <thesaltydog> that shit of work.
[04:59] <\sh> ok...time to go home for me now...cu later guys
[05:01] <Seveas> elmo, welcome, the meeting just finished :)
[05:02] <bddebian> Heh
[05:12] <spayne> sorry i'm late
[05:12] <spayne> just got in
[05:12] <spayne> what is going on then?
[05:13] <zakame> spayne: meetings over :(
[05:13] <spayne> that is very unfiar
[05:13] <spayne> i was TOLD YOU WOULD WAIT FOR ME
[05:14] <Kamion> told by whom? it's difficult to get everyone together for meetings, and two days before release everyone is frighteningly busy and can't spend two hours in a meeting ...
[05:14] <spayne> Mark Shuttleworth?
[05:14] <spayne> i said on the wiki
[05:14] <spayne> this is very upsetting
[05:14] <Kamion> if Mark said that, take it up with him ...
[05:14] <zakame> There's always October 25
[05:14] <spayne> it isn't my fault if i can't be there - i have work
[05:14] <Kamion> so do we! :-)
[05:15] <zakame> spayne: be at my side of the world then, 'tis 11:15pm here ;)
[05:15] <Mizar> I'm going .... bye.
[05:15] <zakame> definitely no work
[05:15] <zakame> bye Mizar 
[05:16] <spayne> zakame: please, don't 
[05:16] <spayne> how can i ever become a member?
[05:17] <spayne> my school doesn't finish until 3:30pm
[05:17] <spayne> and it takes me 30 min to get home
[05:18] <Seveas> Oct. 25 the meeting will be at 22:00 UTC
[05:18] <spayne> oh wonderful!
[05:18] <zakame> spayne: patience is a virtue ;)
[05:18] <spayne> that is 11pm here
[05:18] <spayne> zakame: i am very very annoyed - i put it on the wiki
[05:18] <spayne> what is the point of you just ignoring i
[05:19] <zakame> I would have presented myself again today, but I opted to make my contribution more sustained and significant :))
[05:19] <Seveas> spayne, putting on the wiki that you will be late does *not* guarantee that people will stay.
[05:19] <spayne> Seveas: when did the meating finished?
[05:20] <Seveas> not too long before you arrived
[05:20] <Seveas> but since the wiki said 16:00 we didn't wait
[05:20] <zakame> spayne: hmmm, you do have some sense though, it is in the wiki that: "tell a member of the CommunityCouncil ahead of time that you will be unable to attend."
[05:20] <Kamion> 16:00 GMT is 40 minutes from now
[05:20] <Seveas> zakame, that's just not to get kicked out of the list :)
[05:20] <spayne> zakame: so Mark Shuttleworth doesn't count?
[05:21] <Seveas> zakame, you talked to Mark himself?
[05:21] <zakame> Seveas: no
[05:21] <Seveas> I meant spayne
[05:21] <zakame> Seveas: yes, I was confused there :/
[05:21] <spayne> Seveas: i talked to him yesterday (or Sunday) via irc
[05:22] <Kamion> I'm sorry, but if you say that you're going to turn up two hours after a meeting starts, it's at best a matter of luck if people stay ...
[05:23] <ogra> spayne, ask him why he didnt mentio it in the meeting, he's in #ubuntu-devel
[05:23] <ogra> *mention
[05:24] <Kamion> and if things are still going, then we'll take account of you, but it's harsh on people to have to stay around an extra hour after all other business is finished
[05:25] <spayne> Kamion: they meeting started at 3:00pm my time did it not?
[05:25] <spayne> it is now 16:25
[05:25] <Kamion> you said "16:00 GMT"
[05:25] <Kamion> that is 17:00 London time
[05:27] <Kamion> (actually, you said "4:00pm GMT", but same difference)
[05:28] <Kamion> we use GMT/UTC as a standard global timezone; if you quote times in that, we assume you've already converted from whatever your local timezone is
[06:10] <spayne> Kamion: the next meeting is in half term for me
[06:10] <spayne> Kamion: so i can make it