[12:02] <HiddenWolf> yup
[12:02] <HiddenWolf> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3001
[12:02] <HiddenWolf> why? strings got dumped?
[12:02] <zyga> HiddenWolf: 21 updated, 0 new -> needs extra 61,4KB
[12:03] <zyga> strange
[12:03] <HiddenWolf> see the paste
[12:03] <zyga> hmm
[12:03] <zyga> this is the final update before the release
[12:03] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: a lot of unnecessary images were removed from ubuntu-docs
[12:04] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, _images_
[12:04] <HiddenWolf> 26mb of images?
[12:04] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: yes. the difference comes to about 30MB
[12:04] <Kamion> according to Installed-Size:
[12:05] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, *unk*
[12:05] <Kamion> was very useful for live CD space freeage
[12:06] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, what kind of images are we talking?
[12:06] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: lots of .png files that weren't referenced by the documentation (according to jbailey)
[12:06] <Kamion> screenshots, by the look of it
[12:07] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, oops
[12:07] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root   1311123 2005-08-31 17:00:08 ./usr/share/ubuntu-docs/gnome/images/C/stones.png
[12:07] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root    546775 2005-08-31 17:00:08 ./usr/share/ubuntu-docs/gnome/images/C/ubuntubugzilla.png
[12:07] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root    461365 2005-08-31 17:00:08 ./usr/share/ubuntu-docs/gnome/images/C/evolution-calendar.png
[12:07] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root    768240 2005-08-31 17:00:08 ./usr/share/ubuntu-docs/gnome/images/C/aisleriot.png
[12:07] <Kamion> that sort of thing
[12:07] <HiddenWolf> Glad to be rid of it _before_ release
[12:07] <Kamion> they were in the docteam svn, possibly for web-published docs - dunno exactly
[12:08] <HiddenWolf> that's a couple of gigs bandwith saved. :)
[12:09] <HiddenWolf> mdz, Kamion be nice, post a abc to -devel-list tellling me how I can rsync an ubuntu-daily to final when it's out, then seed it, please.
[12:10] <mdz> Kamion: ready to approve d-i?
[12:12] <Kamion> mdz: I'll push a cron.daily first to make sure sparc has this kbd-chooser upload
[12:12] <Kamion> but otherwise, yes
[12:12] <Kamion> will do it in a few minutes
[12:13] <Kamion> hppa is out of time for kbd-chooser and can live with the old version; the udeb is the same anyway
[12:20] <Riddell> what is the OEM install mode?
[12:22] <Kamion> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OEMInstaller
[12:33] <mdz> Kamion: there is some serious crack in ubuntu-docs
[12:33] <mdz> it is going to need attention post-release
[12:34] <ogra> Kamion, mdz, i suppose a edubuntu-meta upload for the python-opengl chane is ok ? 
[12:34] <ogra> *change
[12:34] <mdz> one of the "frequently asked questions" about installing packages is "How to backup/restore downloaded repositories cache?"
[12:34] <ogra> lol
[12:34] <mdz> ogra: only if your CD is overflowing
[12:34] <ogra> mdz, its a ripoff from ubuntuguide.org ...
[12:35] <mdz> the section on installing packages talks about apt-get and synaptic but not gnome-app-install
[12:35] <ogra> mdz, mine arent :) edubuntu is fine, i just wanted to syncronize
[12:40] <mdz> ogra: what's this about a 10-minute gimp job as the default edubuntu background?
[12:41] <ogra> mdz, the former background was a placeholder, people seemed to like it
[12:42] <ogra> but there was complaint in #edubuntu that it wasnt coulorful enough, the current one is http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/13
[12:42] <wasabi> There a better way to make a chroot Ubuntu install than debootstrap? Perhaps some post-debootstrap thing to run to do the basic configuration
[12:42] <wasabi> /etc/modules, oem-config, etc?
[12:43] <wasabi> guess my only idea is to install oem-style into a vmware and copy that to a chroot. =/
[12:43] <zyga> ogra: is there any *.ubuntu.com map?
[12:43] <ogra> zyga, ??
[12:44] <zyga> ogra: I've just learned about art.ubuntu.com
[12:44] <ogra> ah
[12:44] <Kamion> wasabi: no, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/apcs04.html is the standard approach, involving debootstrap
[12:44] <ogra> zyga, feel free to investigate and make one on the wiki ;)
[12:44] <Kamion> wasabi: oem-config has quite a narrow range of uses at present, although they may be expanded in the future
[12:44] <wasabi> yeah
[12:48] <wasabi> I just want some friendly "please enter your hostname" on boot.
[12:49] <Kamion> elmo: please sync putty from Debian (fixes build failure with gcc 4.0)
[01:02] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[01:06] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu live CDs still in progress?
[01:07] <Kamion> Riddell: yes
[01:22] <Riddell> Kamion: quite a difference in dsize there.  do you think we'll revert to the i386 winfoss or should I adjust for this new size?
[01:25] <mdz> Riddell: er, you intend this kdebase for 5.10?
[01:26] <doko> mdz: please could you answer to the zope/plone sync email from Monday?
[01:26] <mdz> doko: at first glance it was a whole bunch of new upstream versions that I could not hope to review, and we could not hope to QA, in 24 hours
[01:26] <Riddell> mdz: yes please
[01:27] <mdz> Riddell: you realize this means all new livefs builds as well?
[01:27] <Riddell> mdz: yeah, but I think we'll get as lot of complaints if it doesn't use anti-aliases fonts
[01:27] <mdz> Riddell: at this point we are only stopping for real showstoppers
[01:28] <Riddell> I consider it one
[01:28] <mdz> Riddell: if it's safe and important, it can be considered for breezy-updates after the release
[01:28] <Kamion> Riddell: I don't think there's room to switch back; you'd need an extra >10MB
[01:28] <Kamion> Riddell: let's just leave it as it is
[01:28] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[01:29] <mdz> Riddell: is it a regression? when did it regress? there isn't even a bug open about it
[01:29] <mdz> Riddell: is this fallout from 3.4.3?
[01:29] <doko> mdz: these were subminor versions, partly needed for plone-2.1. I can go over them again, but please approve the other ones
[01:29] <Riddell> mdz: yes, it was a typo in converting the patch for 3.4.3
[01:30] <mdz> doko: you didn't provide justification for any of these
[01:33] <goonie> I'm sorry to post a user problem, but could someone help me repairing my Grub installation, please? (Error 17)
[01:33] <Riddell> mdz: how frozen are we?  I still have to adjust the language packs for size on some of the CDs
[01:33] <mdz> Riddell: we are VERY VERY FROZEN
[01:34] <doko> mdz: you did agree to these on 09/14, if uploaded on 09/15. kobold did send the sync list on 09/16.
[01:34] <Riddell> mdz: so we have to leave these CDs oversized?
[01:34] <ogra> Riddell, will you adjust the size up or down ? up affects edubuntu
[01:34] <ogra> ah, ok
[01:34] <Riddell> ogra: how would it affect eubuntu?
[01:35] <mdz> doko: if I approved them for 09/15, they needed to go in on 09/15
[01:35] <ogra> Riddell, if you size it up, my CDs get bigger
[01:35] <mdz> that was a month ago
[01:35] <mdz> it's now the day before release
[01:35] <Riddell> ogra: why?  it's only the kubuntu seeds
[01:36] <ogra> Riddell, you said you'd change the language packs, you didnt talk about seeds :)
[01:36] <Riddell> language packs in the seeds
[01:36] <ogra> yes, got that now :)
[01:38] <mdz> doko: if it's safe enough that you feel it could be uploaded the day before release, you can propose it for breezy-updates after release
[01:39] <mdz> that is the level of freeze we are in right now
[01:39] <mdz> Riddell: which of your CDs are oversized?
[01:40] <Kamion> mdz: only the install CDs; quick ship changes would probably do the trick
[01:40] <Kamion> oh, no, powerpc/live too
[01:40] <doko> mdz: ok, will do
[01:40] <Riddell> mdz: powerpc live and amd64 install
[01:41] <Kamion> Riddell: amd64 install is easy to fix without archive changes
[01:41] <Riddell> Kamion: what needs done?
[01:41] <mdz> Kamion: did you work the same powerpc initrd magic for kubuntu that you did for ubuntu?
[01:41] <Kamion> remove 'amd64' from language packs for less-popular languages in ship
[01:41] <Kamion> (in the seed)
[01:42] <Riddell> that was my plan
[01:42] <Kamion> mdz: yes, that change was global
[01:42] <mdz> Kamion: or perhaps the cloop needs to be reset?
[01:42] <Kamion> mdz: powerpc doesn't need that - partimage works fine there
[01:42] <mdz> oh, amd64/install and powerpc/live, not the other way around ;-)
[01:42] <Kamion> yes
[01:42] <Kamion> kubuntu/amd64/live has been reset
[01:43] <mdz> and is still oversized? ick
[01:43] <mdz> can we trim winfoss?
[01:43] <Kamion> no, amd64/live is not oversized
[01:43] <Kamion> only amd64/install
[01:43] <Kamion> that one is easily dealt with by trimming language packs
[01:44] <mdz> why is powerpc/live larger than amd64/live?
[01:44] <mdz> isn't it the reverse for ubuntu?
[01:44] <Kamion> language packs again
[01:44] <mdz> argh
[01:44] <Kamion> fixing that will require an archive change
[01:44] <Kamion> sorry I didn't notice that earlier; I was busy fixing lots of other images ;-)
[01:45] <mdz> it's Riddell's responsibility to monitor the kubuntu images
[01:45] <mdz> and ogra's to monitor edubuntu
[01:46] <mdz> an oversized kubuntu/powerpc is not necessarily a showstopper
[01:46] <Kamion> indeed
[01:46] <mdz> I don't think anyone plans to press aluminum ones
[01:48] <mdz> let's go ahead with it unless we find something worse
[01:50] <mdz> this new ubuntu breezy-live-amd64 is going to take ages to download
[01:50] <mdz> I'm getting <200k/sec from cdimage
[01:50] <Riddell> should I adjust ship for the oversized amd64 CD?
[01:50] <Kamion> Riddell: yes
[01:51] <Kamion> subtract Size: fields of .debs from the image size, starting from the bottom of the list, until you get to a bit less than 650MB (safety margin)
[01:52] <Kamion> then remove all of those from amd64
[01:52] <Riddell> ok
[02:00] <dholbach> i'm off to bed, see you in a couple of hours
[02:00] <mvo> good night dho
[02:00] <mvo> good night dholbach 
[02:01] <elmo> do I want to process this d-i?
[02:02] <elmo> Kamion/mdz: ^--
[02:02] <mdz> elmo: I thought Kamion had done it already...if not, maybe he has a reason for waiting
[02:03] <mdz> Kamion: so this current CD build is not final anyway, then?
[02:03] <Kamion> elmo: yes, please do
[02:03] <Kamion> sorry, forgot to handle it
[02:03] <Kamion> mdz: the CD build that's happening right now is a cronned Edubuntu build
[02:03] <mdz> Kamion: I mean the ubuntu build which is currently on cdimage
[02:03] <Kamion> correct
[02:04] <mdz> the one I'm downloading now, with the non-rsyncable amd64 livefs
[02:04] <Kamion> we won't be seriously breaking rsyncability from now to release
[02:05] <mvo> the current image (20051011.1) is not the final one? no sense in testing it now?
[02:05] <Kamion> it is certainly worth testing
[02:05] <elmo> done
[02:06] <Kamion> mvo: don't bother testing OEM installations with that image, because a fair bit has changed there, but other than that there are few changes left
[02:06] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[02:06] <Riddell> Kamion: done
[02:06] <mvo> I'm doing a expert install, it asks me for a root pw. is that intended (I guess so)?
[02:07] <Kamion> mvo: yes, and it's always been that way
[02:07] <mvo> ok
[02:07] <Kamion> elmo: I wouldn't object if you were to nuke breezy's daily-installer-*, either
[02:08] <Kamion> there will be no more daily d-i builds there
[02:08] <elmo> ok\
[02:08] <elmo> what about the last two d-i uploads?  still want them?
[02:09] <Kamion> and we may as well free that gigabyte of archive space
[02:09] <Kamion> elmo: 17 can go, leave 18 for now
[02:12] <Kamion> mdz: FYI, all cdimage cron jobs disabled from now to breezy release
[02:13] <Kamion> I'll set off a sequence of builds after the currently-running build completes, and then go to bed
[02:19] <karthik085> I tested today's image and it passed all desktop tests
[02:19] <mdz> Kamion: ok, I'll get those down and see how they look
[02:19] <mdz> karthik085: thank you
[02:20] <karthik085> Where should 
[02:20] <karthik085> I indicate the status?
[02:20] <mdz> karthik085: I'll take care of it, thanks
[02:20] <karthik085> Ok. Thanks. later
[02:21] <Kamion> elmo: can you chase up the language-pack OODs in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/breezy_outdate.txt?
[02:22] <Kamion> elmo: [urgent for CD builds] 
[02:23] <Kamion> infinity: alternatively, if you're around ...
[02:24] <mdz> probably not; he's been gone <7 hours I think
[02:24] <elmo> en-mass given back
[02:24] <elmo> the first one I looked at had, silly buildd vs. archive race crap, so I'm asuming that's the problem for all of them
[02:24] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[02:24] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, that happened in the last l-p-* batch too
[02:26] <mvo> Kamion: does 20051011.1 contains the latest german langpack? or will it be part of the next build?
[02:27] <Kamion> mvo: the .list files should tell you
[02:27] <Kamion> breezy-install-i386.list:/pool/main/l/language-pack-de/language-pack-de_20050930_all.deb
[02:27] <Kamion> looks like not
[02:29] <mvo> Kamion: ok, next build I guess? otherwise the expert install worked fine (just completed the desktop tests
[02:29] <Kamion> mvo: next build, yes
[02:29] <Kamion> mvo: thanks, that's good to know
[02:30] <mvo> Kamion: should I add this result to the BreezyTestPlan wiki yet? or will we start with that tomorrow?
[02:31] <Kamion> I think we should probably start with that once we really have candidate images
[02:31] <elmo> I think most, if not all, will make this cron.daily
[02:31] <elmo> Kamion: ^-- l-p
[02:31] <Kamion> elmo: all, by the looks of it
[02:31] <Kamion> thanks for that
[02:36] <ogra> yeah, edubuntu isos look good :)
[02:43] <Kamion> cdimage@little:~$ for-project ubuntu cron.daily; for-project ubuntu cron.daily-live; for-project kubuntu cron.daily; for-project kubuntu cron.daily-live; for-project edubuntu cron.daily; for-project ubuntu-server cron.daily
[02:43] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[02:44] <Kamion> mdz: all primary image builds queued up; I'm off to bed, feel free to kill those cdimage processes and restart if they run amok for some reason
[02:44] <mdz> Kamion: I'll test those and kick off dvd builds after
[02:45] <Kamion> perfect
[02:46] <Kamion> mdz: btw, you have an ancient tail -f process running on little
[02:48] <wasabi> great. at some point my rear surround volume disappeared from g-v-c
[02:49] <wasabi> oh cool something to add it. ;)
[02:52] <elmo> (Kamion: did they fix your router then?)
[02:53] <wasabi> haha and on 2.6.12-9 my monitor turns itself off randomlly with the ATI driver.
[02:53] <wasabi> breezy is going to be fun. ;)
[02:55] <ogra> wasabi, do you have gnome-screensaver installed from an old upgrade we switched to it for some days... the symptom sounds familiar
[02:55] <wasabi> hmm might
[02:56] <wasabi> yes, do.
[02:56] <wasabi> oh cool this power management stuff i just noticed is niec
[02:56] <wasabi> nice
[02:56] <ogra> remove it ... or if you want to keep it, adjust the dpms setting in configuration editor... 
[02:56] <wasabi> Just going to remove it. It never worked with my pam setup anyways.
[02:57] <wasabi> Every time it came up I had to switch to VT1 and kill it... but I kept being too lazy to remove it.
[02:57] <ogra> the first upstrem version had a dpms setting to switch the monitor off after 10 mins... :)
[02:57] <wasabi> Well, it turns off WHile I'm Using It.
[02:57] <wasabi> But comes back in about 4 seconds.
[02:57] <ogra> yup, it was buggy
[02:57] <wasabi> Oh heh
[02:58] <ogra> should be solved in recent versions...
[02:58] <wasabi> good to know that was the problem though
[03:05] <ogra> mdz, the xscreensaver fix was already in the archive before d-i doesnt that mean it gets on the current CD ?
[03:14] <mdz> ogra: version number?
[03:14] <ogra> ubuntu17
[03:14] <ogra> xscreensaver 4.21-4ubuntu17
[03:15] <mdz> ogra: ARGH
[03:16] <mdz> it is in the archive but not on the current livefs
[03:16] <mdz> so we are out of sync again
[03:16] <mdz> I thought Kamion was doing a new livefs build
[03:16] <ogra> oh, the livefs wont be rebuild... damn.. 
[03:16] <ogra> does it nee d-i ? 
[03:16] <ogra> *need
[03:16] <mdz> has nothing to do with d-i
[03:16] <ogra> i thought the new builds were caused by it
[03:17] <mdz> the livefs and d-i are completely independent
[03:17] <ogra> yes
[03:17] <mdz> well now we are forced to rebuild it and we lose a few more hours
[03:18] <ogra> sorry, i didnt know that...
[03:18] <mdz> not your fault, I wouldn't have approved the upload if I realized there wasn't a livefs build pending
[03:19] <mdz> I should have left it for breezy-updates
[03:20] <ogra> yes... :/ 
[03:21] <wickedpuppy> could i report a bug here ? or should i send it to bugzilla ??
[03:21] <ogra> wickedpuppy, bugzilla
[03:22] <wickedpuppy> okie
[03:22] <ogra> except it could block the release which must be a really really serious bug
[03:41] <sistpoty> gn8 folks
[03:53] <dhonn> whats with my computers the System > About Ubuntu  errors on all my systems!
[03:53] <elmo> dhonn: update, it's fixed
[03:54] <bddebian> Heya elmo 
[03:56] <ajmitch> bddebian: got breezy reinstalled?
[03:56] <bddebian> Just finished burning the CD
[03:59] <wasabi> is there a possible way to install a package unconfigured?
[03:59] <wasabi> with apt.
[04:01] <ajmitch> wasabi: I guess you're wanting something similar to crosshurd, are you?
[04:01] <wasabi> depends what that is. ;)
[04:02] <ajmitch> sets up a chroot (a partition usually), and I think it leaves the configuring step until first boot
[04:02] <ajmitch> I haven't used it in a long time though
[04:03] <wasabi> Hmmm
[04:28] <LaschW> Is there a BreezyTestPlan for OEM-Install?
[04:57] <mdz> LaschW: I thought I saw Kamion add something to the wiki today
[04:58] <mdz> ah, it's in the release notes
[04:58] <mdz> LaschW: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[04:58] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:58] <jsgotangco> mdz, can you review the notes before i ask jbailey to add it to the distro?
[04:59] <mdz> jsgotangco: it's too late
[04:59] <jsgotangco> oh ok..so its frozen
[04:59] <mdz> yeah, I sent a release status update to -devel earlier
[04:59] <mdz> we're in the very final freeze
[05:00] <mdz> is there a link from the existing release notes to the wiki version so we can continue to update it?
[05:00] <mdz> well, we can always continue to update it, but it would be nice to have a quick link there for dapper if we don't already
[05:00] <jsgotangco> we don't have anything in the distro
[05:01] <mdz> for dapper maybe it should just be a link
[05:02] <mdz> since the release notes tend to get edited very close to (and after) the release
[05:02] <mdz> especially errata
[05:02] <mdz> one of the things we use the release notes for is to document issues that are discovered too late to be fixed
[05:02] <mdz> which by definition means it's too late to update the release notes as well ;-)
[05:02] <jsgotangco> yeah but that would mean a user should be online just to read the notes
[05:03] <mdz> there isn't much we can do about that; changing the release notes in .deb form on the CD requires a complete livefs and CD rebuild which takes hours
[05:03] <mdz> and then another test cycle
[05:04] <mdz> if we are to put a version on the CD, it'll only contain what we have ~7 days before release
[05:04] <mdz> or at least 2-3
[05:05] <jsgotangco> ok sounds good then next time we should just use a permalink i guess
[05:06] <mdz> we could include older release notes and have a link "go here for the latest release notes online"
[05:07] <mdz> we had a fairly reasonable start on the release notes as of RC; why didn't those get incorporated into the package?
[05:08] <jsgotangco> well it was my fault really, i didn't fix it up in time along with the omf so it wasn't uploaded along
[05:08] <mdz> I'll add it to the release checklist for next time
[05:09] <jsgotangco> the last upload of jbailey had fixed a lot of the translations or so...
[05:16] <elmo> OK, *.ubuntu.com, launchpad.net, etc. is going down for some emergency network maintenance - ETD is 10 minutes or so
[05:28] <calc> hmm releases.ubuntulinux.org appears to be down
[05:29] <segfault> yeap, we know
[05:29] <calc> ok
[05:29] <jsgotangco> being fixed by elmo
[05:41] <bslima> GnuKemist, hi
[05:42] <GnuKemist> sup dude?
[05:42] <GnuKemist> bslima, sup dude?
[05:42] <bslima> still down ?
[05:43] <GnuKemist> bslima, believe so
[05:43] <bslima> =/
[05:49] <wasabi> yay
[05:49] <wasabi> up
[05:51] <Trashcan> yay :D
[05:51] <jsgotangco> crack fiends! :P
[05:55] <xhaker> why did planet went back a week or so?
[05:56] <xhaker> or should i say.. why did Stephen Herman get ontop like that.. 
[05:58] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:58] <LaschW> mdz: Thanks, I'll have a look...
[06:18] <wasabi> Ya know, a new type of dependency: Configure-Depends, would be nice. Packages required to configure the package, but not to use it.
[06:18] <wasabi> So I can install all this crap, but ditch perl because I have no need for it to USE the crap heh
[06:19] <mdz> wasabi: then when the time came to upgrade the package, you'd need to reinstall all that stuff anyway
[06:19] <wasabi> yup
[06:19] <wasabi> but neverthe less, it would make building this embedded system easier.
[06:24] <fabbione> morning
[06:25] <sivang> good morning fabbione 
[06:30] <fabbione> mdz: how do we look?
[06:31] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[06:34] <sivang> mdz: just took a look at BreezyTest plan, shouldn't we add something to test printing as well, "if appropriate hardware available" ?
[06:37] <mdz> fabbione: slow
[06:37] <mdz> fabbione: install is up, live is mirroring
[06:37] <Lathiat> whats this for?
[06:37] <fabbione> mdz: ok. i am rsyncing now
[06:37] <Lathiat> test isos for release?
[06:37] <mdz> yes, a first cut
[06:38] <Lathiat> ok
[06:38] <fabbione> mdz: go and get some rest, we will start the test plan asap. If there is any big issue i will drop a phone call
[06:38] <mdz> sivang: it's meant to be a very fast test. I have to do it 12 times for every test cycle
[06:38] <sivang> mdz: ah I see, understood.
[06:38] <mdz> fabbione: it is not even 2200 yet here
[06:39] <ajmitch> 20051012.1 is the image to grab?
[06:39] <mdz> I am going to test this set, and if it is good, I will bugger off for a while
[06:39] <fabbione> oh.. it's me a bit too early :)
[06:39] <mdz> ajmitch: daily -> 20051012.1, daily-live -> 20051012.2
[06:39] <ajmitch> ok
[06:44] <wasabi> my flash system boots to gdm + X now. ;)
[06:45] <wasabi> usplash is busted for some reason though. hmm
[07:07] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[07:12] <spstarr> erm, did we forget to include libavformat and libavcodec packages in breezy? i only see the -dev ones im trying to port xvidcap 1.1.4-pre2 to ubuntu
[07:12] <spstarr> i know they come from ffmpeg
[07:14] <fabbione> mdz: did you also rebuild dvds?
[07:15] <mdz> fabbione: not yet, I will once kubuntu and edubuntu have CDs
[07:15] <fabbione> mdz: ok
[07:15] <mdz> amd64/live and powerpc/live OK here
[07:16] <fabbione> mdz: still resyncing i386.. burning i386 install and rsyncing mirror for netinstall
[07:16] <spstarr> it looks like we are missing it :(
[07:17] <wasabi> naw, i think they're all in the ffmpeg package
[07:17] <wasabi> for some reason
[07:17] <wasabi> or somewhere
[07:18] <fabbione> spstarr: they are not shared libs
[07:18] <spstarr> should be?
[07:18] <fabbione> you get the devel to link static
[07:18] <fabbione> no, if the ABI is not stable
[07:18] <spstarr> hmm, so i need to build it as part of xvidcap..hmm 
[07:18] <spstarr> _ugly_
[07:19] <spstarr> that explains the failure in finding the .so
[07:19] <spstarr> /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.0.2/../../../../lib/libavcodec.a(h263.o): In function `ff_mpeg4_encode_video_packet_header':
[07:19] <spstarr> : undefined reference to `ff_log2_tab
[07:19] <spstarr> then why do we include the -dev is the lib ABI is changing?
[07:20] <fabbione> spstarr: -> #ubuntu
[07:20] <fabbione> we are in the middle of a release
[07:20] <fabbione> there is no time to look at this stuff
[07:20] <fabbione> not right now
[07:21] <spstarr> hmm, i'll make do with what i have i'd like to get this into next ubuntu
[07:21] <spstarr> xvidcap is rather useful
[07:21] <mdz> my powerpc test box is so b0rked
[07:21] <mdz> it has become progressively slower during the time I've had it
[07:22] <fabbione> mdz: my powerpc is so not here yet :/
[07:22] <ajmitch> ah, rsync at ~4K/sec is painful
[07:22] <mdz> it's now at a point where the desktop is becoming unusable on the live CD
[07:22] <mdz> it takes about 3x as long to boot to the point of accessing the CD
[07:22] <fabbione> mdz: how old is that?
[07:22] <fabbione> perhaps a good cleaning and new CDrom would do
[07:23] <mdz> fabbione: about a year I guess
[07:23] <mdz> a bit before warty
[07:23] <tritium> I can't get breezy to get along with my iMac G5
[07:23] <mdz> tritium: did you use the 64-bit kernel?
[07:23] <tritium> mdz, yes
[07:23] <tritium> I haven't tried the dailys from the 12th yet
[07:25] <tritium> mdz, has it been successfully tested on a newer iMac, as far as you know?
[07:25] <sivang> mdz: that's weird. The hardware just deteriorates to slowness ? :)
[07:25] <fabbione> tritium: what kind of iMac is that?
[07:25] <tritium> fabbione, a recent 20" iMac G5
[07:26] <fabbione> tritium: i know there are some limitations in the kernel with the most recent G5's
[07:26] <fabbione> tritium: support is still on the way into the kernel
[07:26] <tritium> fabbione, thanks, that's not too surprising.
[07:27] <fabbione> tritium: you will have to wait for dapper kernels
[07:27] <fabbione> kernel's even
[07:27] <tritium> not a problem.  I'll be glad to try them
[07:33] <pitti> Good morning
[07:34] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:39] <elmo> fabbione/pitti: I'm about to kill your rsync sessions I'm afraid
[07:39] <fabbione> elmo: meh...
[07:39] <fabbione> is it urgent?
[07:39] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[07:39] <elmo> fabbione: no, I'm just doing it out of spite
[07:39] <fabbione> ok
[07:39] <elmo> so, once more with feeling
[07:39] <pitti> ok
[07:40] <fabbione> elmo: go ahead.. i did stop them
[07:40] <pitti> ah, shit
[07:40] <pitti> Ctrl-C'ing it removed the original file
[07:41] <elmo> ok, *.ubuntu.com, launchpad.net going down again for emergency network maintenance. ETD is 10 mins.  Really this time.
[07:41] <mdz> yes, rsync sucks in this situation
[07:41] <mdz> pitti: you were using --partial I assume
[07:41] <fabbione> bah great.. one cdrom is dead..
[07:41] <mdz> --partial loses if you just started on the file, the default loses if you are near the end
[07:41] <mdz> fabbione: drive or disc?
[07:41] <fabbione> drive
[07:42] <pitti> mdz: yes, I use -P
[07:42] <fabbione> mdz: no bigge.. machine promoted as candidate for net install :)
[07:44] <pitti> nice to see the powerpc and amd64 CDs fit well now
[07:44] <pitti> 33 MB free space on i386, what a waste...
[07:45] <elmo> we back, happy?
[07:46] <infinity> Max connections 15 already.  Dang, you guys are quick.
[07:47] <fabbione> infinity: nah... just kick it again
[07:47] <infinity> Yeah, I did.  All good now.
[07:47] <dhonn> hey i noticed in suse10 that metacity renders windows proportional to the menu bar.  how do i do that in ubuntu
[07:48] <infinity> mdz : Oh, if you're curious, ath-in-di broke due to a udpkg bug, which Mithrandir has now fixed in upstream svn, so we're good to go for getting it into early dapper.
[07:48] <infinity> mdz : Shame we didn't try this a week earlier, other than the one bug, it seems fine. :)
[07:49] <mdz> i386, amd64, powerpc live OK
[07:49] <sivang> infinity: will be finally able to join the ath testing, will be getting my X300 powered T43 soon :)
[07:49] <mdz> amd64 install OK, powerpc,i386 installs in progress
[07:50] <infinity> sivang : You got one with an ath, not an ipw2200?
[07:50] <infinity> sivang : I specifically ordered mine with "intel wireless" (ipw2200) rather than "IBM wireless" (ath) to avoid the hassle.
[07:51] <\sh> infinity: what to test?
[07:51] <infinity> \sh : Hrm?
[07:52] <\sh> infinity: I just read ath-in-di...just curious if I can test installation via wifi
[07:53] <fabbione> mdz: winfoss on i386 looks good
[07:53] <sivang> infinity: ah bah, I didn't get it, that's what the dealer said he can give - I will talk to him shortly then, ath0 support is poor?
[07:54] <mdz> fabbione: oh, good. please add a column for that to the test plan page
[07:54] <mdz> er, rows
[07:54] <mdz> er, row
[07:54] <mdz> I feel a migraine coming on
[07:54] <fabbione> mdz: do we have winfoss on DVD too i assume
[07:55] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[07:55] <\sh> mdz: send it to me and I'll stay home today :(
[07:57] <infinity> sivang : It's not poor, per se, but it involes a binary-only blob, and can be a bit sketchy at times.
[07:58] <infinity> \sh : No, cause we didn't get it in in time (due to the one aforementioned bug... Updating udpkg on the day of release would be very dumb)
[07:58] <infinity> \sh : Talk to me after the release, and maybe I can build some test images for ath users.
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: i386 liveCD is good
[07:59] <mdz> CDs all good here except powerpc install which is STILL going
[08:00] <infinity> CD drive buggered?
[08:00] <\sh> infinity: well..we have to try to overcome the madwifi wpa-psk dhcp bug...cause sitting here now with a ndiswrapper enabled card, all the nice wpa-supplicant stuff and dhcp is working out of the box
[08:01] <fabbione> mdz: i386 install is good too
[08:01] <fabbione> (CD)
[08:01] <fabbione> waiting the mirror to rsync for netinstall
[08:02] <\sh> and now it's time to hit the bathroom and to have a look to myself...and I'm really afraid of it :(
[08:02] <\sh> later guys
[08:03] <fabbione> mdz: do you prefer the reports via email or are you tracking them via IRC?
[08:04] <mdz> fabbione: tracking them in the wiki, see my latest edits to BreezyTestPlan
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: ok
[08:06] <mdz> ok, 6/6 in my first test pass
[08:07] <mdz> now I can sleep for a bit
[08:08] <fabbione> mdz: i will add your i386 install to the wiki
[08:08] <fabbione> good night
[08:10] <mdz> fabbione: my i386 install was custom partitioning
[08:10] <mdz> I didn't have a row for that yet
[08:10] <fabbione> oh ok
[08:10] <mdz> you can add one if you want and add my test there
[08:11] <fabbione> sure
[08:11] <mdz> but erase disk still needs to be tested
[08:11] <fabbione> i did test it
[08:12] <pitti> mdz: to speed it up, would it be sufficient to do "erase disk" and/or "autopartitioning" and stop the installation after checking what it did?
[08:13] <fabbione> pitti: you still want to install all of it
[08:13] <fabbione> specially in custom mode :)
[08:13] <fabbione> if you make a 10MB /var is unlikely to work :)
[08:14] <pitti> fabbione: yes, I thought about erase all, then break, then automatic, then break, then custom and install completely
[08:14] <fabbione> ah yeah
[08:14] <fabbione> that makes sense
[08:14] <fabbione> my god.. all these langpacks are slowing down my mirror to death
[08:15] <infinity> elmo : Are we still letting universe builds trickle in?
[08:16] <mdz> pitti: I suppose so, yes
[08:16] <daniels> mdz: so I assume that #15372 will not be resolved for breezy?
[08:16] <pitti> mdz: I'd just check if the automatically created partitions are big enough
[08:17] <mdz> daniels: that is unfortunately correct
[08:17] <daniels> wa-hey.
[08:17] <mdz> daniels: though if the fix is simple and safe we can consider it for -updates
[08:17] <jsgotangco> should we add that as a known issue?
[08:17] <daniels> well, aside from that, I have no major bugs that aren't in NEEDINFO or UPSTREAM.
[08:17] <ajmitch> infinity: I hope so
[08:17] <mdz> (which it would have needed to be tobe uploaded the day before release anyway)
[08:17] <daniels> jsgotangco: i have three of them.  can I edit this as a wiki page or something?
[08:17] <jsgotangco> daniels, feel free to do so i'll just clean it up later
[08:17] <mdz> daniels: how is your bandwidth these days?  mini test plan in /topic
[08:18] <daniels> mdz: it's not simple, but I feel it's safe
[08:18] <daniels> mdz: and yes, I'm working on getting CDs for testing
[08:18] <daniels> jsgotangco: URL?
[08:18] <jsgotangco> daniels, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[08:18] <daniels> mdz: half of it's from me, and half from the other guy on the planet who still does stuff with XKB
[08:19] <mdz> daniels: it should be just as worthwhile in -updates; the bug doesn't screw the install
[08:19] <daniels> fair enough
[08:19] <mdz> so we can even take a few days and get confident in it
[08:19] <elmo> infinity: no ones' told me not to
[08:19] <infinity> elmo : Cool, can I get a P-a-s sync, then?
[08:20] <mdz> Riddell: kubuntu install+live CDs are up
[08:20] <mdz> ogra: edubuntu CDs are building
[08:20] <infinity> Dear god, we're only up to "g" on the langpack mirror.
[08:21] <elmo> infinity: done
[08:21] <mdz> I'm going to try to escape this migraine by going to sleep.  please cover the test cases in the plan, with a fair variety of languages, while I'm away
[08:22] <mdz> if any showstopper is found, or something which needs a decision as to whether it is a showstopper, call my mobile
[08:22] <mdz> night all
[08:22] <jsgotangco> night mdz
[08:23] <fabbione> mdz: night
[08:23] <pitti> night mdz
[08:23] <pitti> Hi dho
[08:23] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[08:23] <dholbach> good morning
[08:23] <dholbach> good night mdz
[08:24] <ajmitch> hi dholbach 
[08:32] <zyga> morning
[08:35] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[08:35] <zyga> hello pitti :)
[08:35] <zyga> first day when I don't have to work all day :)
[08:42] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync xloadimage 4.1-14.3 and xli 1.17.0-18sarge1 (both from sarge-security)?
[08:42] <pitti> elmo: both universe, and both only security updates
[08:42] <dholbach> pitti: he went to bed
[08:43] <pitti> ah, I see
[08:49] <maswan> mdz/whoever: can I get an irc ping when the pool is updated on se.releases? I need to get copies to the offload hosts too.
[09:01] <pitti> argh, why aren't there jigdo images for DVDs?
[09:03] <infinity> Because they take forever and a day to generate.
[09:03] <pitti> Kamion: is it possible to generate jigdo files for the latest dvd to allow us less bandwith equipped folks to test them? By scanning the live CD, install CD, and /var/cache/apt/archives, the required download amounnt would become bearable
[09:03] <jsgotangco> a jigdo dvd would take prolly a day to build
[09:03] <pitti> so what
[09:03] <pitti> it would take me a week to rsync for nothing
[09:03] <pitti> for the final images one day seems worth the effort
[09:04] <jsgotangco> you have a point there
[09:04] <pitti> it takes 8 minutes for a CD, it shouldn't be a whole day for the five-fold amount
[09:14] <Burgundavia> whiprush, relicensing http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/33275644/ under GFDL or CC-by-sa 2.0 for the doc teams' quicktour
[09:15] <dholbach> Burgundavia: we just had a brief conversation over cc-by-sa 2.0 - debian-legal doesnt consider it free enough, but i dunno about 2.5
[09:15] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, its probably not his image even...
[09:15] <Burgundavia> dholbach, regardless, that is what the doc team stuff is currently under
[09:16] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, if it isn't, then we start again
[09:16] <Burgundavia> dholbach, as for not being dfsg-free, it is an issue, but not a current huge one (we can't do anything this late anyway)
[09:17] <dholbach> it was merely a heads-up
[09:17] <jsgotangco> chill
[09:17] <Burgundavia> dholbach, When we decided back in Mataro it came up. We realized we were totally squeezed and it sucks
[09:24] <Mirv> pitti: thanks for the new language packs, with the expection of serpentine (the translation of which was in the "main" rosetta template until yesterday noon when I uploaded it also to the breezy's serpentine-template), everything seems now translated
[09:26] <dholbach> morning seb128 
[09:28] <pitti> Mirv: nice
[09:28] <seb128> hey dholbach
[09:28] <pitti> Mirv: the missing bits will come in the first round of updates
[09:28] <zyga> pitti: do you sync that .tar.gz from carlos manually? today's archive is identical to yesterdays
[09:28] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[09:28] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:29] <dholbach> sabdfl: morning mark
[09:29] <pitti> zyga: yes, rosetta did not export a tarball today, and we don't currently need it
[09:29] <zyga> ah, okay
[09:29] <seb128> hi pitti sabdfl
[09:30] <sabdfl> ogra: ping
[09:30] <sabdfl> moin moin all
[09:31] <fabbione> morning sabdfl 
[09:31] <ajmitch> hi sabdfl 
[09:32] <sabdfl> Kamion: can we delay edubuntu without affecting everything else?
[09:32] <zakame> hi sabdfl 
[09:32] <sabdfl> hi zakame
[09:33] <siretart> can someone else than elmo remove obsolete binary packages from the archive?
[09:34] <dholbach> morning siretart 
[09:34] <siretart> hi dholbach!
[09:36] <infinity> siretart : Others have the power to, but generally defer to elmo for removals, as they prefer not to break anything. :)
[09:39] <siretart> infinity: I've sent him an email. The particular issue is the binary package 'mplayer-amd64', which is no longer built from source 'mplayer', confusing users
[09:40] <siretart> so mplayer should really be removed. perhaps there are more cases, but can't check that..
[09:40] <siretart> argl
[09:40] <siretart> so the binary package mplayer-amd64 should be removed
[09:40] <siretart> not mplayer as whole..
[09:41] <infinity> Old binaries that are no longer built from source tend to be purged on a reasonably regular basis.
[09:41] <siretart> okay. didn't know that
[09:42] <siretart> just wanted help avoiding having this particular mplayer-amd64 package remove before breezy. a friend was confused by this
[09:43] <pitti> ouch - I can't start the OO.o help on ppc/install - any confirmations?
[09:45] <pitti> doko_: oo.o2-help-en-us is not installed on powerpc - any idea?
[10:03] <jhank> i know... but i just want download the final.... so is there a time set when the new cd image is to be released?
[10:04] <jhank> i'm sorry, that's the wrong channel guys :(
[10:09] <atripathi> is it the place where suggestions could be given ?
[10:09] <jsgotangco> suggestions? we're already testing the cds heh
[10:10] <Skid> not sure if this is the place, tried the motu channel but its a lil quiet ;) - what does it take to become a mirror, and are there any estimates on usages?
[10:10] <dholbach> Skid: mirrors@ubuntu.com is the right place afaik
[10:11] <dholbach> might be mirror@ too... hmm
[10:11] <Skid> dholbach: alright cheers, I'll cc both.. going to 'unoffically' mirro the breezy dvd/images tomorrow anyway and try to pass them around our peers etc to lighten the load a teeny bit :)
[10:11] <atripathi> anyway i will put it here. I would like better GUI support to network connections. I am having adsl and need to type pon dsl-provider evertime to connect. I would like better dialing app which could also ping to the dhcp host to keep the connection alive.
[10:11] <Skid> +r
[10:12] <atripathi> though its not a big problem but i feel it is essentially required for the pppoe i am using over dsl
[10:12] <atripathi> and yes....before migrating to Ubuntu i used fedora3 and it had better GUI support to it
[10:13] <dholbach> Skid: cool
[10:13] <atripathi> I guess it was worth suggesting here
[10:13] <pitti_live> DARN - /me beats OO.o help to death
[10:13] <seb128> ?
[10:14] <atripathi> Hoary rocks.....hope breezy rocks even more. Likely to get the CDs pretty soon
[10:14] <maswan> Skid: We're hoping for 2Gbit/s :)
[10:14] <pitti_live> doko_, Kamion: on amd64-live, ooo2-help-en-us is installed, but pressing F1 just brings "Help system could not be started". on ppc/install, the package is not even installed, and same effect
[10:15] <Skid> heh I've got a few 100Mb links unused
[10:15] <pitti_live> doko_, Kamion: it works fine for me on ppc-live
[10:15] <Skid> but it won't be on outbound gig, sorry :P
[10:15] <Skid> that'd push me over our cdr
[10:15] <Skid> s/me/us
[10:16] <maswan> Skid: Well, if you are around for the peak demand, we might be in need of http redirect targets. I'm se.releases btw.
[10:16] <maswan> Skid: But hopefully we won't get that much above 2Gbit demand
[10:16] <Skid> what sort of usages do you see?
[10:17] <Skid> I've got dual fe's bonded up ready atm..
[10:17] <maswan> a couple of hundred Mbit/s, I think
[10:17] <Skid> alrighty :)
[10:17] <maswan> the entire mirror sees 300:ish Mbit/s daily average, 500Mbit/s peak, but that's more than just ubuntu
[10:17] <Skid> http redirect targets = ?
[10:18] <jsgotangco> the mighty hand of maswan at work...
[10:18] <Skid> heh
[10:18] <maswan> A bit over half of that seems to be ubuntu
[10:18] <Skid> rest is what, repo's etc?
[10:19] <maswan> Skid: During releases I try to find a few extra boxes with lots of ram and gigE that I can redirect the popular files to.
[10:19] <maswan> http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/index.html.en
[10:20] <maswan> we're also ftp.se.debian.org, ftp.gnome.org, ftp.mozilla.org, se.archive.u.c, and mirror some hobbyist movies
[10:20] <Skid> ahhh see what oyu mean now :)
[10:20] <Skid> if only uk transit was cheap :)
[10:20] <Skid> suppose i could get some cheapo clognet crap in, but like that's nolonger a full table so :P
[10:20] <maswan> the trick is to be on an NREN where they like usage :)
[10:21] <jhank> is there a specific time set, when the ubuntu is to be released tomorrow?
[10:21] <Skid> ah, uni netowkr
[10:21] <infinity> jhank : When we're good and ready.
[10:22] <jhank> is there a time set for that? *fg*
[10:23] <jsgotangco> jhank, nope
[10:23] <jhank> hehe okay :)
[10:41] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync pvm from sid?
[10:45] <jsgotangco> hey silbs 
[10:46] <fabbione> Kamion,mdz: install CDs still carry the "Release Candidate" thing around.. noticed on expert install
[10:46] <fabbione> Kamion: oem install is ok, i found a few glitches tho.. 
[10:47] <jsgotangco> fabbione, did you oem loop into the creation of the user?
[10:47] <fabbione> Kamion: aborting the "test phase" brings you back to X.. i didn't see the message that the machine will be reconfigured at the next reboot (i might have just overlooked at it)
[10:48] <fabbione> Kamion: at the next reboot.. when oem-config runs in X and select "other locations" i am not offered the option to select which one. So either i live in the ones that are presented there or i can't select ;)
[10:48] <fabbione> jsgotangco: no
[10:48] <fabbione> how did you get there?
[10:48] <silbs> jsgotangco: good morning
[10:49] <jsgotangco> i was testing yesterday's x86 build and somehow after the reboot, the creation of the first user looped
[10:51] <fabbione> jsgotangco: try with the new images
[10:51] <fabbione> jsgotangco: Kamion did fix a bunch of oem bugs right 12 hours ago
[10:51] <fabbione> or so
[10:51] <jsgotangco> right
[11:09] <pitti_live> Hi again
[11:10] <seb128> wb pitti_live
[11:10] <pitti_live> seb128: do you get OO.o help breakage, too?
[11:11] <seb128> pitti_live: on a new i386 install no
[11:11] <seb128> pressing F1 from the writer works fine
[11:12] <pitti_live> seb128: on which arch and install/live? can you add your results to the wiki?
[11:12] <pitti_live> ah, ok
 pitti_live: on a new i386 install no
[11:12] <seb128> "i386 install"
[11:12] <pitti_live> yep, sorry :-)
[11:12] <seb128> and I'm going to, I just logged to the desktop like 1 min ago
[11:12] <seb128> let me play with it before updating the wiki :)
[11:12] <seb128> I've the wiki page open on my browser :)
[11:13] <pitti_live> ok, I finished editing the page
[11:14] <pitti_live> ah, wait, I add i386/live
[11:15] <seb128> WTF
[11:15] <seb128> the language-selector has not boxes to the second column
[11:18] <mvo> seb128: that usually means that your sources.list is either missing some deb entries or a apt-get update is missing
[11:19] <ogra> sabdfl, pong (sorry was up late)
[11:20] <sabdfl> ogra: artwork email
[11:20] <ogra> yes, i just see it
[11:21] <seb128> mvo: right, that's due to this crappy bug making that eth0 is not set on boot
[11:22] <mvo> seb128: will be fixed very early in dapper 
[11:22] <mvo> seb128: oh, no. I was confusing this with the ifconfig bug
[11:23] <seb128> and running dhclient breaks lo which makes GNOME unhappy :)
[11:24] <seb128> k, I've the boxes now
[11:25] <mvo> seb128: that one is getting fixed very early :)
[11:25] <Kamion> sabdfl: we can delay the Edubuntu release a bit, certainly, but changing the archive for Edubuntu now is very awkward and risky
[11:25] <sabdfl> ok, then let's go ahead
[11:25] <Kamion> fabbione: release candidate> thanks, will fix that
[11:26] <Kamion> fabbione: oem> yeah, I know the UI is pretty glitchy - if you could file bugs about those things, I'd appreciate it
[11:26] <Kamion> I'm not going to sort them out now, but we can polish it up for dapper
[11:26] <sabdfl> which UI is that Kamion?
[11:26] <Kamion> sabdfl: OEMInstaller
[11:26] <Kamion> pitti_live: it's really hard to generate jigdos after the image has been built at the moment
[11:27] <ogra> Kamion, could you just wipe the current edubuntu-artwork ? the only diff for the last upload was the wallpaper, su that would revert it
[11:27] <Kamion> pitti_live: I might do a run with jigdo turned on, but can't guarantee it
[11:27] <ogra> s/su/so
[11:27] <Kamion> ogra: er, no, I can't "just wipe" anything
[11:27] <Kamion> what's the problem?
[11:27] <ogra> Some people, sabdfl included dont like the wallpaper 
[11:28] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. i will do in a minute.. i need to get some food first :)
[11:28] <ogra> my last upload changed exactly this... so if we culd revert the package one revision, it wold at leas be the former one
[11:29] <Kamion> meh, ReleaseChecklist says that artwork is to be sorted a week before release for a reason
[11:29] <pitti_live> mvo: ok, so language-support-en was installed for you on i386/oem?
[11:29] <Kamion> so, Edubuntu doesn't have a live CD, and edubuntu-artwork isn't on any other CD image
[11:29] <Kamion> which gives us a slim window
[11:29] <ogra> Kamion, yup
[11:29] <pitti_live> Kamion: I have severe troubles with OO.o help on various configurations (ppc, amd64), can you confirm?
[11:30] <Kamion> pitti_live: not yet, I was up late last night and have just got up
[11:30] <pitti_live> ok, nm
[11:30] <infinity> pitti_live : I'm about to do amd64 tests.
[11:30] <pitti_live> I'm running amd64/oem ATM
[11:30] <pitti_live> and will do ppc/expert now
[11:30] <ivoks> hi all
[11:30] <mvo> pitti_live: I haven't tested i386/oem yet
[11:30] <Kamion> ogra: make a new edubuntu-artwork upload with wallpaper the way sabdfl wants it
[11:30] <ogra> Kamion, ok
[11:30] <Kamion> and do it quickly
[11:30] <pitti_live> mvo, ah, misread, that was expert
[11:30] <Kamion> (but not without testing ...)
[11:30] <ivoks> i know this is not the place, but i'm at client, and don't have time for bugzilla
[11:31] <ivoks> but we have major loss of functionaly with samba and tiger OSX
[11:31] <ogra> sabdfl, any opinion ? any wallpaper you like best ?
[11:31] <doko_> pitti_live: why is oo help not on the powerpc cd? oo2-core _depends_ on it ...
[11:31] <Kamion> ogra: we have one chance to get this right
[11:32] <Kamion> doko_: it *is* on the powerpc CD. You could have found this out yourself by looking in the .list files
[11:32] <ogra> Kamion, ok... i would have stayed with the former one... but several people spoke up it was to boring for kids... no idea what to take now
[11:33] <pitti_live> doko_: the thing is, on ppc/install, l-support-en is *installed* but ooo2-help-en-us is not; it is in the apt cache, though
[11:33] <pitti_live> on ppc/oem, language-suppor-en is not even installed, and neither is ooo2-help-en-us
[11:33] <Kamion> pitti_live: check /var/log/base-config-pkgsel.log
[11:34] <infinity> Kamion : The images are still labelled "Release Candidate"... I assume that means there's one more CD build required?
[11:35] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, fabbione told me that earlier
[11:35] <infinity> ivoks : Known issue, a bug has been filed, but without someone isolating the patch to fix it, I can't do much about it, sorry.
[11:35] <Kamion> dists/breezy/Release needs to be changed too
[11:36] <ivoks> infinity: it's fixed in .20
[11:36] <infinity> ivoks : You can always blame Apple for being the only vendor in the world that doesn't fall back to a working auth method when their shiny-new-auth-method fails, though.
[11:36] <ivoks> infinity: i do blame Apple :/
[11:36] <infinity> ivoks : Yes, and .20 is a HUGE upgrade.  We're not putting it in.
[11:36] <ivoks> infinity: i'll try to isolate patch
[11:36] <infinity> ivoks : So, again, without someone isolating a small and sane patch, no fix until dapper.
[11:36] <infinity> ivoks : If you can isolate a patch that's sane, I'll argue to get it into breezy-updates post-release.
[11:37] <ivoks> infinity: i didn't mean to import .20, just that patch...
[11:37] <ivoks> infinity: ok
[11:37] <sabdfl> technically, dapper in *Tuesday* for the brave :-)
[11:37] <pitti_live> Kamion: I'm in ppc/oem installation now. the log has no trace of language-support-en
[11:37] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[11:37] <pitti_live> Hi jdub 
[11:37] <pitti_live> Kamion: neither of ooo help
[11:38] <\sh> jdub: please...not so loud...my brain is paining a lot
[11:38] <sabdfl> Kamion, ogra: edubuntu artwork can go as-is
[11:38] <sabdfl> jdub is clearly in release mode this morning ;-)
[11:38] <Kamion> pitti_live: please investigate starting with the code in /usr/lib/base-config/menu/pkgsel; it will be a while before I can investigate myself
[11:38] <Kamion> sabdfl: ok
[11:39] <ogra> sabdfl, ok :)
[11:39] <ivoks> infinity: i'll contact you when i have a success... see you
[11:40] <infinity> ivoks : there's an open bug about it in bugzilla, you can follow up to that and attach the patch.
[11:40] <ajmitch> morning jdub 
[11:40] <ivoks> infinity: ok
[11:40] <infinity> ivoks : http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17509
[11:40] <ivoks> infinity: thanks
[11:41] <infinity> ivoks : I narrowed it down to about a month worth of Jeremy fiddling with rewriting, like, half ot thr RPC code.  Which is unacceptable.  If you can fix it in a tiny and obvious patch, cool.
[11:41] <ivoks> infinity: can you provide url with patches (or they are in svn?) since i would like to test them
[11:41] <ivoks> infinity: uh... sounds bad :/
[11:42] <infinity> We may just suffer with being incomatible with Tiger until dapper.  We're not alone in that boat.
[11:42] <ivoks> infinity: yeah, i know...
[11:43] <infinity> Just about everyone out there right now is incompatible with Tiger, and IMO, the onus is on Apple to release an update that works with older SMB implementations.
[11:43] <ivoks> infinity: trouble is that my buissness depends on osx compatibility :)
[11:43] <ivoks> infinity: so i'll work on fix and contact you about that
[11:44] <ivoks> bye all
[11:44] <jdub> sabdfl: BOS->LON arriving at 6am mode, methinks ;)
[11:50] <hno73> Of those who are testing images with the very latest artwork, could you grab 4-5 screenshots and send them to me? I'll want to update this page today http://www.ubuntu.com/screenshots (henrik@ubuntu.com) Thanks
[11:50] <pitti> doko_: ping
[11:52] <Kamion> pitti: incidentally, if you didn't know already, you can also rsync one of our DVDs more quickly by starting from the concatenation of the install and live CDs ...
[11:52] <pitti> Kamion: ok, right
[11:52] <pitti> doko_: on both amd64/live and install-oem, ooo-help-en-us is installed, but help does not work; how can I debug this?
[11:53] <Kamion> if you were only going to be jigdoing from basically the contents of the install and live CDs anyway, it should be about the same
[11:53] <Kamion> 10:38 < Kamion> pitti_live: please investigate starting with the code in /usr/lib/base-config/menu/pkgsel; it will be a while before I can investigate myself
[11:53] <Kamion> pitti: ^--
[11:53] <Kamion> for the case where it isn't installed, in case you didn't see that
[11:56] <doko_> pitti: looking at it, I usually use strace, but that doesn't seem to work with 32bit bianries
[11:57] <pitti> doko_: on my previously installed system help works fine, but not with the freshly installed one; I'll try a fresh normal installation, too
[11:57] <doko_> pitti_: the 32bit strace does work however
[12:06] <doko_> Mithrandir: ping
[12:06] <Mithrandir> doko_: pong
[12:07] <seb128> is there a place to describe issues?
[12:07] <seb128> i386 with custom partitionning doesn't boot
[12:07] <seb128> "Hard disk boot sector invalid. Press 'H' to retry ..."
[12:07] <fabbione> seb128: works here.. where did you put / or /boot ?
[12:08] <seb128> I made a automatic-partitionning install before
[12:08] <seb128> booted this one
[12:08] <seb128> picked the manual partitionning
[12:08] <seb128> deleted the previous one
[12:08] <fabbione> (+ that sounds like a BIOS can't read MBR issue)
[12:08] <seb128> create a 10G / and a swap
[12:08] <seb128> and didn't put any boot flag (should I?)
[12:08] <doko_> It looks like if I add the 32bit libdb-4.2.so in LD_PRELOAD, I can start the help on amd64. Is there a way to determine other libs, which are preloaded, as well?
[12:08] <seb128> dunno if that's an user error or not ...
[12:08] <doko_> s/preloaded/dlopened/
[12:09] <fabbione> seb128: did you put swap before / ? if so how big?
[12:09] <seb128> no
[12:09] <seb128> hda1 is 10Go /
[12:09] <Diziet> Ah, fabbione.  Hello.
[12:09] <seb128> hda2 is 500M swao
[12:09] <seb128> swap
[12:09] <Kamion> seb128: did you make hda1 active?
[12:09] <Kamion> some BIOSes don't like it if you don't
[12:09] <fabbione> seb128: looks ok
[12:09] <fabbione> Diziet: yo, yes?
[12:09] <Kamion> s/active/bootable/, whatever the terminology in use is
[12:10] <seb128> Kamion: nop, what I said with "<seb128> and didn't put any boot flag (should I?)"
[12:10] <doko_> Mithrandir: ^^^
[12:10] <Diziet> In scrollback you say something about gs and an ICE ?!
 dunno if that's an user error or not ...
[12:10] <Kamion> seb128: yes, you probably should
[12:10] <fabbione> Diziet: i already fixed it.. sort of..
[12:10] <Kamion> seb128: I have a bug open about this; we tried to fix it for hoary, but it was more complicated than expected so we deferred until, um, breezy (oops)
[12:10] <seb128> Kamion: k, I thought than first partition was set automatically 
[12:10] <Diziet> Um, OK, I'll go and look ...
[12:10] <fabbione> Diziet: i had to switch sparc back to gcc-3.4.. one of your patches manage to ICE on sparc with gcc-4.0
[12:10] <seb128> Kamion: do you have the bug number so I can point it on the wiki?
[12:11] <Diziet> The stdarg one, no doubt.  But even so I didn't think it was very controversial.
[12:11] <Kamion> seb128: I'm just looking, one sec
[12:11] <seb128> thanks
[12:11] <Kamion> seb128: it's not a regression in breezy though
[12:11] <doko_> pitti: please check for the amd64 help: copy the 32bit libdb-4.2.so to /usr/lib32, add it in /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin to LD_PRELOAD (white space separated), then start ooo again
[12:11] <pitti_live> shit, amd64/expert hangs at installing grub
[12:11] <Diziet> Just in case I'm wrong somehow, I'd like to see it for myself.  DYK what our sparc in the colo is called ?
[12:11] <Kamion> seb128: #7906
[12:11] <seb128> Kamion: probably not, I had such issue before hoary
[12:11] <SteveA> mjg59: hi, around?
[12:11] <seb128> thanks
[12:12] <infinity> Diziet : We don't have one.
[12:12] <pitti_live> doko_: ok, next time when my amd64 has finished stuff
[12:12] <Diziet> inf: Oh.
[12:12] <Kamion> sparc's an unofficial port, fabbione runs it more or less solo
[12:12] <Diziet> Right, OK.
[12:12] <Mithrandir> doko_: no, there isn't.
[12:12] <Diziet> In that case, fabbione, can you tell me file and line number or do you not get the line number ?
[12:13] <fabbione> Diziet: one second...
[12:13] <fabbione> Kamion: i am not THAT alone :) just for the buildd/integration side :)
[12:13] <Kamion> right
[12:13] <fabbione> Diziet: http://bld-3.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/g/gs-gpl/8.01-5ubuntu4/gs-gpl_8.01-5ubuntu4_20051011-1533-sparc-failed.gz
[12:14] <fabbione> Diziet: anyway.. that's stuff to look for dapper
[12:14] <fabbione> Diziet: nothing to worry about for now..
[12:14] <seb128> Kamion, fabbione: setting the hda1 bootable flag with fdisk fixes the issue
[12:14] <Kamion> seb128: good
[12:14] <fabbione> perfect
[12:14] <Kamion> seb128: what machine?
[12:15] <seb128> Kamion: the packard bell laptop that jdub had during the Oxford time
[12:16] <Kamion> right, I think we only ever had this problem with some dodgy laptop BIOSes
[12:17] <doko_> Kamion: are there 360k place on the amd64 CD's? to get the ooo help working, we need the 32bit libdb-4.2.so
[12:17] <Kamion> but yeah, we really must actually fix this in dapper rather than forgetting about it
[12:18] <Kamion> doko_: yes, we certainly have that much room; shame it'll require a livefs rebuild
[12:18] <fabbione> Kamion: bugs filed..
[12:18] <doko_> Mithrandir: which package should contain the 32bit libdb4.2.so?
[12:19] <Kamion> oh, but having to rebuild ooo2 is going to SUCK
[12:19] <Kamion> ah, only ooo2-amd64
[12:19] <doko_> Kamion: no, just repackaging the amd64 bits
[12:19] <pitti_live> Kamion: expert install at both ppc and amd64 hangs; I have an idea about the reason, do you want to discuss this now or shall we ignore this?
[12:19] <Kamion> pitti_live: now
[12:19] <fabbione> pitti_live: how do they hang?
[12:19] <Mithrandir> doko_: ia32-libs, probably.
[12:20] <pitti_live> Kamion: on amd64 it hangs at installing grub
[12:20] <pitti_live> Kamion: I killed d-i's apt and chrooted into /target and apt-get install grub
[12:20] <Kamion> I bet it's having trouble in apt-install
[12:20] <pitti_live> Kamion: it asks me to insert the CDROM, I press enter, it asks me again
[12:21] <mvo> pitti_live: do you have working network at this stage?
[12:21] <pitti_live> Kamion: d-i's apt hogs 100% CPU, I assume it tries to ask that question, too (non-interactively)
[12:21] <Kamion> ok, I think I saw this on i386 too yesterday, but I was on a heavily-hacked installer so I disregarded it in favour of other problems
[12:21] <pitti_live> mvo:  yes, I can ping
[12:21] <Kamion> in retrospect that was probably a mistake
[12:21] <Kamion> I suspect the apt-setup integration
[12:22] <pitti_live> Kamion: same happens on ppc in stage 2 - apt-get hangs without any progress
[12:22] <pitti_live> Kamion: with the same reason (does not recognize the CD)
[12:22] <Kamion> perhaps it is buggy and generates a different sources.list at low priority
[12:22] <fabbione> pitti_live: hangs at the end of the installation?
[12:22] <Kamion> pitti_live: what's in /target/etc/apt/sources.list?
[12:22] <sabdfl> hmm... our spell check is broken
[12:22] <pitti_live> fabbione: amd64 expert: at grub install, ppc install: right at the beginning of stage2
[12:23] <sabdfl> could someone try to spell check a document in openoffice please?
[12:23] <pitti_live> Kamion: let me go over and look
[12:23] <fabbione> oh begining.. pitti_live: bad burn?
[12:23] <fabbione> no
[12:23] <Kamion> fabbione: no, this is a real problem
[12:23] <fabbione> never mind
[12:23] <fabbione> Kamion: yeah.. it can't be bad burn if it did copy successfully pkgs at stage1
[12:24] <fabbione> sabdfl: checking now
[12:24] <pitti_live> fabbione: no, the same CD worked fine for server and normal install
[12:24] <seb128> sabdfl: works fine for me with the writer
[12:24] <doko_> sabdfl: do you see the "ABC" icon in the language preferences?
[12:24] <pitti_live> Kamion: sources.list has the CD-ROM with main aind restricted; on my iBook that's the only source (no nework), on amd64 I have the network sources, oo
[12:25] <fabbione> sabdfl: looks good here
[12:25] <Diziet> zcsdevn.i (gcc -E output) from old and new gs-gpl are identical modulo one embedded pathname in a #... line number annotation.  So it's not my change that broke it.
[12:25] <pitti_live> Kamion: since apt does ask for the CD, it seems that apt wants a different one
[12:25] <Kamion> pitti_live: is this after installation, or when it hangs?
[12:25] <doko_> Mithrandir: are the cups libs somewhere in ia32-libs?
[12:25] <pitti_live> Kamion: I killed d-i's apt and logged in VC 2
[12:25] <pitti_live> Kamion: still at end of stage 1
[12:25] <pitti_live> Kamion: and grub is not installed
[12:25] <fabbione> Diziet: it did build fine previously.. with gcc-4.0.. so something did change :)
[12:26] <Kamion> hmm, that's very odd
[12:26] <Diziet> GCC ?  
[12:26] <Diziet> Are you sure the hardware is reliable ? :-)
[12:26] <Mithrandir> doko_: I don't think so.
[12:26] <fabbione> Diziet: dude.. yes. the hw is realiable
[12:26] <pitti_live> Kamion: as already said, it works fine for normal and server mode, just expert
[12:26] <Kamion> I'll investigate this myself right now
[12:26] <Mithrandir> doko_: but printing works fine, so please don't fuck around with that.
[12:26] <Kamion> pitti_live: yeah, that makes me inclined not to suspect apt
[12:26] <pitti_live> Kamion: shall I try apt-setup again on amd64? (too late for ppc, already stage 2)
[12:26] <Kamion> pitti_live: no
[12:27] <pitti_live> mvo: how do I compare the signature of apt-setup with the actual CD I have in the drive?
[12:27] <mvo> pitti_live: greek chars look much better after the fontconfig fix btw
[12:27] <Kamion> I'm betting strongly that sources.list looks different between normal and expert installs at that stage, or else that apt-get update hasn't been run in one of those scenarios
[12:27] <mvo> pitti_live: apt-cdrom ident should do
[12:28] <pitti_live> mvo: but apt-get seems to have a different idea of my CD; where can I see the stored id?
[12:28] <infinity> mvo : Have you learned to reed greek, so you can enjoy your greek install a bit more?
[12:29] <doko_> Mithrandir: I "don't fuck around with that", please change your tone
[12:29] <fabbione> hey guys... come on... easy.. we are all overstressed for release
[12:29] <mvo> pitti_live: "apt-cdrom ident" gives you a identifier for the cd, then you can check /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list
[12:29] <pitti_live> Kamion: I partially solved ppc: I inserted the CD again and killed the apt-get, now it installs
[12:30] <pitti_live> Kamion: I didn't copy the debs on hd for ppc; however, it should ask to insert the CD in that case (no blocker, though)
[12:31] <mvo> infinity: no, of course not. but I still enjoy the nice glyphs
[12:31] <segfault> too late for a kernel change?
[12:31] <segfault> :D
[12:31] <segfault> i mean, recompile.
[12:32] <fabbione> segfault: yes way too late
[12:32] <segfault> Your kernel was built with "gcc" version "3.4.5", while you are trying to use
[12:32] <segfault> "/usr/bin/gcc" version "4.0.2".
[12:32] <segfault> :(
[12:32] <Kamion> pitti_live: we don't have a UI for CD insertion at the moment, but that should not be happening at all and is a blocker bug
[12:33] <fabbione> segfault: no.. that's the correct behaviour... you are doing something wrong to build your nvidia drivers
[12:33] <fabbione> segfault: export CC=gcc-3.4 and recompile whatever you are doing
[12:33] <Kamion> UI> in base-config that is - it requires funky fd handling to get a newline back to aptitude's stdin
[12:33] <segfault> i'm trying to compile vmware, but shouldn't the kernel be compiled with gcc4 too?
[12:33] <Mithrandir> segfault: no.
[12:34] <pitti_live> Kamion: ok, more ideas: fingerprints are identical
[12:34] <fabbione> segfault: -> #ubuntu and no..
[12:34] <segfault> mithrandir: why not?
[12:34] <pitti_live> Kamion: but when I chroot /target, I cannot mount the CD
[12:34] <segfault> its not a user question, i know how to fix it
[12:34] <Mithrandir> segfault: because it breaks.
[12:34] <segfault> i'm just trying to figure out why its not using gcc4 :)
[12:34] <fabbione> segfault: it is a user question.. and it's not a bug
[12:34] <mvo> Kamion: the strange thing is that it shouldn't hang when the question is asked but fall back to some other source or fail complettly
[12:34] <pitti_live> Kamion: it says it is "busy"; I can only mount it when I umount it from the d-i root fs before
[12:35] <Kamion> pitti_live: I think you're on the wrong track, because none of that sort of thing should be affected by the prevailing debconf priority, surely?
[12:35] <Kamion> not that I know the problem yet, but ...
[12:35] <pitti_live> mvo: /v/l/apt/cdroms.list has two entries for the CDs: same fingerprint, but the second has a ::Label thing; is that right?
[12:35] <Kamion> CD handling in the installer is delicate and doing stuff by hand at the same time may well break it; that in itself is not surprising
[12:36] <Kamion> the question is what happens at DEBCONF_PRIORITY=low that is different from what happens at DEBCONF_PRIORITY=high
[12:36] <pitti_live> Kamion: how does the package install work? does d-i chroot into /target and calls apt-get?
[12:36] <infinity> Kamion : I have a spot of good news for you.  In my crazy HDD setup on my girlfriend's computer, the installer managed to get the crazy grub remap-and-chainload magic right for the first time so it dual-boots without hanging.
[12:36] <Kamion> pitti_live: see /bin/apt-install
[12:36] <Kamion> infinity: rah :-)
[12:36] <pitti_live> Kamion: or does it call apt-get with a --target option?
[12:36] <segfault> What it breaks?
[12:36] <Kamion> no, it chroots
[12:37] <Kamion> I cannot paste the line right now because my mouse is acting up
[12:38] <mvo> pitti_live: yes, two lines should be ok
[12:45] <mull> Hello I think I have found an X11 bug .. but it would be nice if someone could confirm it
[12:45] <mull> If I reach the end of certain "input buffers" the screen flickers (turns to black and redraws)
[12:46] <infinity> Hrmph.  We really should have the installer dpkg-divert fc-cache, and run it once at the end of the install.
[12:46] <infinity> I think the collective font postinsts are responsible for about 30% of my install time.
[12:46] <jdub> infinity: i thought Kamion had done that?
[12:46] <Kamion> infinity: does it do significant duplicate work each time?
[12:46] <Kamion> jdub: no, that was scrollkeeper
[12:46] <mull> Test case: open gvim. press "i". and then the down button.
[12:46] <infinity> Kamion : Yes.
[12:46] <Kamion> scrollkeeper *does* do significant duplicate work each time, due to insufficient caching
[12:46] <Kamion> infinity: ok, can do that in dapper then
[12:47] <ogra> infinity, i think its more than 30%
[12:47] <Kamion> jdub: you did? I don't remember
[12:47] <Kamion> infinity: file a base-config bug for me please, milestone Ubuntu 6.04
[12:47] <dholbach> mull: works for me
[12:47] <mull> typing a not nown search entry in firefox search bar also shows that behavior
[12:48] <infinity> The only other installer complain I had is the complete lack of password-safety checking.  It let me set a password I'd never be allowed to set at runtime ("foo")
[12:48] <infinity> Again, far too late to care.
[12:48] <mull> err nown == found
[12:48] <Kamion> infinity: iz passwd.config bug, but yeah
[12:49] <dholbach> mull: i suggest you write a detailed bug report on bugzilla.ubuntu.com (hardware, attach xorg.conf, test cases, versions of stuff you use)
[12:49] <mull> ok
[12:49] <infinity> ... And the installer doesn't clear out kernel update-notifications, so the first boot sees a lightbulb.
[12:49] <infinity> Yay.
[12:49] <infinity> (Will be fixed differently in dapper anyway, I suppose)
[12:49] <Kamion> base-config has code to do that
[12:49] <Kamion> does it not work?
[12:50] <infinity> Kamion : I'm going to go with "no"... My freshly-installed amd64 system showed me a kernel reboot notification.
[12:50] <Kamion> it's near the bottom of /usr/lib/base-config/menu/pkgsel
[12:50] <Kamion> mvo: ?
[12:50] <seb128> mull: you probably use the visual bell?
[12:50] <Kamion>                 find /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/ -type f -printf '%P\n' \
[12:50] <Kamion>                         | sed "s/\$/ $(date +%s) 0/" \
[12:50] <Kamion>                         > /etc/update-notifier/hooks_seen
[12:51] <mvo> Kamion: that should work...
[12:51] <seb128> mull: gnome-sound-properties, System Bell ... do you use "Visual feedback"?
[12:53] <infinity> mvo : I'm going to run through the installer all over again and not click the icon this time, so I can see what state the installer is leaving the notifications in...
[12:53] <doko_> -rw-r--r--  1 doko 2500 8815840 Oct 12 10:35 ia32-libs_1.4ubuntu2_amd64.deb
[12:53] <doko_> -rw-r--r--  1 doko 2500 9172382 Oct 12 10:51 ia32-libs_1.4ubuntu3_amd64.deb
[12:53] <doko_> Kamion: ok to upload?
[12:53] <mvo> infinity: thanks, I'll look for it on my next install too
[12:54] <Kamion> doko_: subject to having a look at the debdiff afterwards, yes
[12:54] <Kamion> doko_: (tested, I assume :-))
[12:54] <Kamion> infinity: FWIW I don't remember seeing the same thing recently
[12:55] <infinity> If it doesn't do it on the second run, then this is non-deterministic, and I'm frightened.
[12:55] <infinity> I'm hoping it shows up again this time.
[12:55] <doko_> Kamion: testing from the package makes sense with the changed oo-amd64 package only. but tested by copying the lib manually
[12:55] <infinity> Also, do we do a reverse DNS lookup to guess the hostname in the installer?.. I found it infinitely creepy that it knew my machine's name.
[12:56] <infinity> (And cool)
[12:56] <fabbione> infinity: yes.. since a long time
[12:56] <infinity> I probably didn't have functioning reverse DNS the last time I did installer tests. :)
[12:56] <fabbione> when was that? pre-warty?
[12:57] <fabbione> i recall it working since warty :)
[12:57] <pitti> bah, I got disconnected
[12:57] <pitti> pitti_live Kamion: I just saw it myself
[12:57] <pitti> pitti_live Kamion: mounting the CD in the chroot fails
[12:57] <pitti> pitti_live Kamion: that might be the reason
[12:57] <pitti> * pitti_live tries something
[12:57] <pitti> pitti_live Kamion: confirmed: when I umount /cdrom in VC2, it works
[12:58] <pitti> hno73: did you say something?
[01:00] <hno73> pitti: It's just a general request to people who are doing testing to grab some screenshots of the latest desktop, if you have a chance (for the website)
[01:00] <hno73> if it's convenient 
[01:01] <Kamion> doko_: "changed oo-amd64 package"> I didn't think oo-amd64 needed to be changed
[01:05] <pitti> Kamion: since the install was totally screwed now, I'll try it again and report back
[01:06] <doko_> Kamion: why? I need to add the lib to LD_PRELOAD
[01:06] <Mithrandir> doko_: why do you need to do that?
[01:07] <doko_> Mithrandir: to get the help working?
[01:08] <Mithrandir> doko_: I hope ooo2 doesn't try to dlopen with full path?
[01:08] <Kamion> pitti: hmm, it just worked fine for me on i386/expert
[01:08] <Kamion> pitti: did you select all the defaults?
[01:09] <segfault> Has anyone tried the latest breezy kernel and VMware 5?
[01:09] <pitti> Kamion: mostly; I said no to pcmcia support and did not copy the packages to hd at first
[01:09] <Kamion> pitti: AH
[01:09] <pitti> Kamion: after the first failure and killing, I copied the packages to hd and tried again, but same result
[01:09] <segfault> some oops around here.
[01:09] <Kamion> pitti: don't do that then :-)
[01:09] <doko_> Mithrandir: ahh, ok, I was missing a ldconfig after the manual installation
[01:10] <mvo> Kamion: i386/expert worked fine for me too, I didn't copied the packages, but inserted the cd during boot
[01:10] <mvo> ^--- pitti 
[01:10] <pitti> Kamion: copying packages to hd is evil (from my POV), so I first tried without :-) and the menu doesn't force me to do it, so I didn't
[01:10] <pitti> mvo: ok, that's the case of my ppc; but I'm not even at the reboot stage on amd64
[01:10] <Kamion> pitti: if that's the only situation where it fails, I'm happy to live with the problem for breezy
[01:11] <pitti> yes
[01:11] <pitti> I try it with copying ackages now
[01:11] <pitti> bbl, maybe my main network returns soon
[01:11] <pitti> mvo: please ring my mobile or landline if I should go online
[01:11] <pitti> mvo: is that possible?
[01:11] <pitti> mvo: I need to go offline for a bit
[01:12] <mvo> pitti: /msg
[01:13] <Lathiat> when do the archives close?
[01:13] <Lathiat> universe wise
[01:14] <ajmitch> Lathiat: not yet, it seems
[01:14] <ajmitch> for hoary it was just before release
[01:14] <Lathiat> i guess
[01:15] <Lathiat> just wanting to sync avahi 0.5.2-2
[01:15] <ajmitch> what's new in it?
[01:15] <Lathiat> just a couple dependancy fixes
[01:15] <Riddell> Kamion: are the current ubuntu dvds excpected to be final?
[01:16] <Kamion> Riddell: no
[01:16] <ajmitch> getting a sync might be a challenge, mdz/kamion/elmo will be flat out
[01:16] <Kamion> but more or less final in terms of content
[01:16] <ajmitch> I guess you could do a straight upload with those fixes as -1ubuntu1
[01:16] <Kamion> no don't do that
[01:16] <Kamion> I'll do a sync in a moment
[01:16] <ajmitch> though it's not the best thing 
[01:16] <ajmitch> Kamion: oh good, thanks :)
[01:16] <Kamion> where does avahi come from? debian?
[01:16] <ajmitch> experimental
[01:16] <Lathiat> Kamion: experimental
[01:16] <Lathiat> bah i just mailed elmo
[01:17] <ajmitch> Lathiat: so mail him to say it's been done
[01:17] <mvo> Kamion: amd64/expert looks fine so far (with pkg copyied to hd), stage2 almost finished
[01:18] <Kamion> Lathiat: ITYM incoming
[01:18] <ajmitch> yeah, it's probably still stuck there
[01:19] <infinity> mvo : Second fresh install, lightbulb is back again.  What state files do you need to see to debug this?
[01:20] <mvo> infinity: I'm doing a fresh install myself right now, but you can /msg me /etc/update-notifier/hooks_seen, ls -laR /var/lib/update-notifier/ and cat /proc/uptime
[01:21] <Kamion> Lathiat: I don't know how to do syncs from incoming (i.e. how to get the Sources file); you'll have to ask elmo
[01:21] <Lathiat> Kamion: ok
[01:21] <pitti> yay network back
[01:21] <Lathiat> hopefully by the time elmo gets my mail it will hit experimental
[01:22] <pitti> doko_: do you know the amd64 ooo failure reason now?
[01:22] <pitti> doko_: I just did ppc/expert and it worked
[01:22] <infinity> mvo : Kay, will in a bit.  I need to make some food; the natives are restless.
[01:23] <infinity> mvo : On a hunch, try installing with "the clock isn't set to UTC" (which I did, because this dual-boots with Windows)
[01:24] <doko_> pitti: copy libdb-4.2.so from an i386 installation into /usr/lib32
[01:26] <mvo> infinity: I think that's the problem. I haven't seen it in the test-installs I did so far (and I did a lot :) but that's because I always set to UTC 
[01:27] <mvo> infinity: strange, this bug is probably around for some time then
[01:27] <pitti> doko_: ok, so you know the reason; thanks
[01:28] <pitti> Kamion: bad news - I did the expert installation again (amd64) with copying packages
[01:28] <pitti> Kamion: same result - I have to umount /cdrom and kill the apt-get process, then reattempt grub instalation
[01:29] <mvo> pitti: worked fine here (amd64, with copying)
[01:29] <Kamion> pitti: was grub copied to /target/var/cache/apt/archives/, *before* you fiddled with it?
[01:30] <jkrogh> Is the latest amd64-smp kernel broken? 
[01:31] <jkrogh> Kernel BUG at "mm/mmap.c":1937   
[01:31] <jkrogh> http://krogh.cc/~jesper/report
[01:32] <Treenaks> who uses mmap anyway :P
[01:43] <Kamion> elmo: please change breezy's Release file to say "Ubuntu Breezy 5.10"; we don't want it Untouchable yet, but this will let me build really-candidate CDs
[01:43] <\sh> I hope my day off from work tomorrow will be approved
[01:43] <pitti> Kamion: I'm 80% sure that it wasn't, but I have to check
[01:44] <mjg59> Kamion: Can I upload a new acpi-support to disable laptop-mode by default?
[01:44] <Kamion> mjg59: urgh. What exactly's the problem?
[01:44] <mjg59> It causes various machines to hang
[01:44] <mjg59> In a way that I can't reproduce and which seems to make no sense whatsoever, but still
[01:45] <Kamion> and the consequences (apart from making us have to rebuild all the live filesystems)?
[01:45] <ajmitch> \sh: you deserve a day off :)
[01:45] <pitti> Kamion: 100% sure; it isn't in apt cache even after installing it (obvious, since installing from CD doesn't copy packages)
[01:45] <ajmitch> \sh: feeling ill still, or just want to rest?
[01:45] <mjg59> Kamion: Higher power consumption on laptops
[01:45] <\sh> ajmitch: I want it, because I want to have a test install run tonight :)
[01:45] <mjg59> mdz requested the change
[01:45] <Lathiat> mmm nifty, just got a support request through to a little non profit isp i look after and the user was using breezy firefox :)
[01:45] <ajmitch> haha
[01:45] <ajmitch> \sh: nearly 1AM here, but I doubt I can get a day off tomorrow :)
[01:45] <pitti> Kamion: so probably grub should be copied, too, or even better, the CD should always be unmounted after apt setup?
[01:46] <Kamion> pitti: what effect would DEBCONF_PRIORITY=low have on either of those things?
[01:46] <\sh> ajmitch: *g* 
[01:46] <Kamion> pitti: grub wasn't copied in hoary and it did no harm
[01:46] <Kamion> and it isn't copied in normal installa
[01:46] <Kamion> installs
[01:46] <ajmitch> \sh: I'll just have to have a quiet beer to celebrate the release after work :)
[01:47] <Kamion> mjg59: when did he request it?
[01:47] <Kamion> (bug number?)
[01:47] <mjg59> Kamion: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6108
[01:48] <Kamion> mjg59: urgh, that was a week ago :(
[01:48] <mjg59> Kamion: I'd also like to disable starting irda services on resume, because it hangs some machines on resume (including the HPs)
[01:48] <Kamion> but ok
[01:49] <mjg59> Kamion: Yeah. Sorry, I missed the mail
[01:49] <Kamion> right, do what you have to and no more
[01:49] <mjg59> Ok
[01:49] <Kamion> thanks
[01:50] <seb128> Kamion: is the eom stage2 of the installer different? it has some untranslated strings
[01:50] <pitti> Kamion: I have no idea; I just reproduced it three times now
[01:50] <Kamion> seb128: #17366. they're untranslatable right now
[01:50] <seb128> thanks
[01:51] <mvo> pitti: that was amd64/export, any other options? I can't reproduce it here :/
[01:51] <Kamion> pitti: I'm strongly disinclined to randomly perturb an area of code I know to be very delicate when we don't even understand the problem
[01:52] <pitti> mvo: yes, I only changed one question (not install pcmcia)
[01:52] <Kamion> pitti: AFAIK the CD is left mounted at that point in order to allow apt to read packages from it
[01:52] <Kamion> unmounting it would break things
[01:52] <mvo> pitti: ok, I didn't included that too. I'll give it another try soon
[01:52] <pitti> Kamion: but if you can't mount the CD in the chroot a second time, it at least explains the effect
[01:53] <pitti> ok, if it works for mvo, it's prolly not a blocker
[01:53] <Kamion> pitti: why is apt trying to mount it a second time at all? it shouldn't be
[01:54] <Kamion> we bind-mount /cdrom to /target/cdrom in base-installer, and leave it that way until near the start of prebaseconfig
[01:54] <pitti> Kamion: because it wants to install grub, which is on the CD, but not in apt cache
[01:54] <Kamion> pitti: but the CD is already mounted; it should not be remounting it
[01:54] <pitti> Kamion: the CD does not appear as mounted in /target
[01:54] <pitti> ok, I will check the bind mount next time
[01:54] <Kamion> ok, so the question is what is unmounting it
[01:55] <pitti> Kamion: unmouting?
[01:55] <Kamion> presumably apt-setup, but why only in expert installs?
[01:55] <pitti> I'll just finish this installation to test the desktop stuff, update the wiki, and try it again
[01:55] <pitti> and I'll watch out for the bind mount
[01:55] <pitti> I definitively know that "mount" does not print the CD
[01:55] <pitti> I'll check
[01:55] <Kamion> I think apt-setup unmounts and remounts
[01:56] <Kamion> but that's normally ok
[01:56] <pitti> ok, I change computer and give back this one, brb
[01:56] <Kamion> 'mount' might not print it
[01:56] <Kamion> 'ls /target/cdrom/' to be sure
[01:58] <Kamion> pitti: I really wish you'd use screen ... makes it hard to have a conversation with you when you keep disappearing
[01:58] <Kamion> pitti: anyway, if you could put 'set -x' near the top of /target/usr/sbin/apt-setup before the apt configuration stage runs, that'd be helpful
[01:58] <Kamion> the shell trace should land in /var/log/syslog
[02:00] <\sh> wow....breezy update party today in the NOC of ISH ;)
[02:00] <pitti> Kamion: will do
[02:01] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, incoming
[02:03] <Kamion> doko: your ia32-libs upload includes a number of non-changelogged package updates
[02:03] <Kamion> doko: I would much prefer to have *only* the libdb4.2 addition
[02:07] <doko> Kamion: hmm, so don't rebuild the package, just do a fake rebuild?
[02:07] <devid> hi to all . there is someone who can help me?
[02:07] <bob2> devid: this is not a support channel, particularily when people are trying to do a release; if you need help, try #ubuntu
[02:07] <jkrogh> Can I find "older" kernel packages somewhere? 
[02:07] <Kamion> doko: yes - I'd like the only change in a debdiff from 1.4ubuntu2 to be the addition of libdb4.2
[02:07] <devid> i must use the command top to modify the priority of the process
[02:08] <Kamion> and the libdb-4.2.so munging
[02:08] <Kamion> we don't have time to deal with any unexpected problems caused by a general fetch-and-build update any more, I'm afraid
[02:08] <doko> Kamion: reupload as ubuuntu3 or ubuntu4?
[02:08] <Kamion> ubuntu4, please
[02:10] <pitti> doko: I unpacked the i386 libdb-4.2.so, put it into /usr/lib32, called ldconfig, but no change - did I forget anything?
[02:10] <maswan> \sh: ISH?
[02:11] <sabdfl> devid: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+tickets
[02:13] <pitti> seb128: in oem, you have to reboot to be able to log in, that's intended
[02:13] <seb128> pitti: how so?
[02:13] <seb128> pitti: beeing pushed to a gdm screen asking for a login with no login available is intended? That's plainly wrong ...
[02:14] <doko> pitti: that was the thing, that did work for me. please call: strace32 -e trace=open -EGTK_PATH=/usr/lib32/gtk-2.0 -ELD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib32/libpangohack.so.0.0 /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin.real
[02:14] <pitti> seb128: the intention is that the OEM installs the system, does a check, shuts down, and at next reboot, the user will register his account
[02:14] <pitti> fabbione: you tried autoresizing - does that only work with vfat? I never got this alternative offerered
[02:14] <seb128> pitti: right, but it didn't reboot, it jumped on the gdm login screen
[02:15] <pitti> seb128: right, that should be improved
[02:15] <fabbione> pitti: i did try with ext3.. i got it in partman
[02:15] <seb128> pitti: do you have some free space?
[02:15] <doko> pitti: updated ia32-libs on p.u.c/~doko
[02:15] <mvo> ogra: in oem-hwdb mode I get "network test", under it "is your *mouse* working properly" and then it hangs (I don't have a network setup)
[02:15] <pitti> seb128: on my hd? yes
[02:15] <nomed> i'm trying breezy .. it seems /etc/hal/device.d is not present ...where should i put my old hald scripts?
[02:15] <seb128> pitti: that's probably why you don't get the option
[02:16] <seb128> mvo: exactly the same here
[02:16] <pitti> fabbione: ok, thanks. I only have reiserfs, vfat, and xfs partitions
[02:16] <seb128> mvo: then cancel and welcome to gdm with no login :p
[02:16] <pitti> doko: where is strace32?
[02:16] <fabbione> pitti: i did try ext3 because it was there
[02:16] <ogra> mvo, hmm, i never tested in oem mode...
[02:16] <mvo> seb128: hrm :/
[02:16] <pitti> ogra: confirmed, for me too
[02:16] <mvo> ogra: is there a way to cancel the the network test?
[02:16] <pitti> ogra: and the sound check is broken
[02:16] <seb128> yeah, no sound here neither
[02:16] <ogra> f*ck
[02:17] <doko> pitti: copy from i386
[02:17] <seb128> during the eom mode
[02:17] <seb128> works fine once on the desktop
[02:18] <mvo> Kamion: is pkgsel run before the timezone question?
[02:18] <doko> pitti: help works for me
[02:18] <pitti> doko, I try your package
[02:18] <pitti> seb128: why free space?
[02:18] <mvo> ogra: anything I can kill to cancel the network test?
[02:18] <dholbach> mvo: fping?
[02:19] <dholbach> ogra: didnt you use fping?
[02:19] <seb128> pitti: no need to autoresize if you have an available partition
[02:19] <ogra> dholbach, yup, its a dependency
[02:19] <seb128> pitti: just a random guess
[02:19] <mvo> dholbach: thanks, but looks like it's not runing
[02:19] <pitti> seb128: ah, no, everything is already partitioned
[02:20] <dholbach> mvo: gets called in the code though
[02:20] <mvo> dholbach: haven't seen it in ps ax :/
[02:20] <dholbach> mvo: :-(
[02:20] <pitti> doko: I installed your new ia32-libs, start OO.o, no help
[02:21] <seb128> dholbach: the network tab just breaks, it has no "next" button and a label about the mouse
[02:21] <pitti> doko: ah, -help-en-us is not installed
[02:21] <doko> pitti: works for me on two different installations ...
[02:21] <doko> pitti !!!
[02:21] <doko> :)
[02:21] <pitti> doko: l-support-en is not installed in expert more as it seems
[02:21] <pitti> doko: ok, confirmed, works now
[02:23] <pitti> mvo: in your amd64/expert installation, was l-support-en installed?
[02:23] <pitti> mvo: for me it's not, but I don't regard it as blocker for expert
[02:24] <mvo> pitti: I'm going to test that next
[02:24] <Kamion> mvo: no, pkgsel runs long after, in the second stage
[02:25] <pitti> mvo: you marked OO-o failure, so you just didn't check the reason?
[02:25] <Kamion> seb128: login 'oem' with the password you selected in the first stage
[02:25] <Kamion> seb128: that stuff was changed too late to be able to add UI for it
[02:25] <pitti> mvo: would be nice to confirm that from a second person
[02:26] <mvo> pitti: I didn't check the reason, no
[02:26] <Kamion> seb128: it should be in the release notes; I'll fix that
[02:27] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[02:32] <dholbach> i'll rush out for some fresh air and something to eat, brb
[02:32] <Kamion> seb128: done
[02:33] <Kamion> pitti: you don't get autoresize offered if sufficient numbers of partitions won't fit in your partition table
[02:33] <Kamion> pitti: this is not uncommon with PC partition tables because they suck
[02:33] <\sh> maswan: 2nd biggest cable tv provider in germany :)
[02:34] <Kamion> pitti: we attempt to offer autoresize on swap/ext2/ext3/fat32/ntfs at the moment; can probably extend that to reiserfs/xfs in future
[02:34] <Kamion> oh, and hfs/hfsplus
[02:34] <pitti> Kamion: yes, that sounds reasonable; I have three primary partitions on hda, and four on hdb
[02:35] <pitti> (hdc actually, but doesn't matter)
[02:35] <pitti> I'll play around with it, though
[02:35] <mjg59> Kamion: Did automounting ntfs partitions ever get fixed?
[02:36] <mvo> Kamion: the notification comes up when I install internal clock not UTC, the ctime of the notification message is almost 2h newer than the time writen into the hooks_seen file
[02:36] <Kamion> mjg59: yeah, partman-basicfilesystems 32ubuntu2, five days ago
[02:37] <mjg59> Kamion: Rock, thanks
[02:37] <pitti> bah, resolvconf is soo broken...
[02:37] <Kamion> mvo: oh, don't tell me I got the date invocation wrong :(
[02:37] <Kamion> pitti: right, need one primary partition for / and somewhere to put a logical partition for swap
[02:37] <Kamion> at minimum
[02:37] <mvo> Kamion: I'm looking into it now, after so many test installs my head is spinning a bit, give me some minutes
[02:39] <maswan> \sh: ah :)
[02:41] <fabbione> hey maswan 
[02:44] <Kamion> doko: ia32-libs approved
[02:44] <Kamion> thanks for that
[02:45] <doko> pitti: just did see, that I missed openoffice.org2-help-nl. breezy-updates ...
[02:48] <\sh> wooo....hoary -> breezy upgrade on another nc6000 with {ubuntu,kubuntu}-desktop went really smooth...
[02:51] <pitti> ah, autoresize worked great this time
[02:52] <xhaker> hard time accessing cdimage
[02:53] <xhaker> elmo?
[02:56] <Znarl> xhaker : Can I help?
[02:57] <xhaker> just wondering why i can't access cdimage.ubuntu.com
[02:58] <fabbione> xhaker: what protocol?
[02:59] <xhaker> simple http
[02:59] <fabbione> works from here
[02:59] <xhaker> wait. i'll try again
[02:59] <xhaker> connection re
[02:59] <xhaker> reseted
[02:59] <xhaker> so it seems it's being hammered?
[03:00] <Kamion> day before release, not surprising
[03:00] <fabbione> xhaker: it must be something between you and cdimage
[03:00] <fabbione> works fine here
[03:00] <fabbione> Kamion: we are actually doing less traffic than usual (according to an italian isp)
[03:00] <xhaker> must be my university then
[03:00] <fabbione> because mirrors are all in sync
[03:01] <fabbione> and few uploads
[03:01] <xhaker> oh..talking about mirrors
[03:01] <xhaker> how would i go about making a mirror on my university?
[03:01] <Znarl> xhaker : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive?highlight=%28mirror%29 has the details
[03:02] <xhaker> if i can get them to mirror the isos, or the archives.. do i need any permission from you?
[03:02] <Znarl> You do not need permission.  
[03:02] <xhaker> thanks
[03:02] <xhaker> another thing.. is the daily image still 12.1?
[03:02] <pitti> Kamion: I'm on it: before apt-setup, there is /target/sys, /target/proc, and /target/media/cdrom0 mounted
[03:03] <pitti> Kamion: after apt-setup detected and added the CD source, this is still true
[03:03] <Kamion> xhaker: yes
[03:03] <pitti> Kamion: but then it asks me for net sources, adds them, and afterwards all bind mounts are gone
[03:03] <rob_lap> is anyone else having issues with the update-notifier package?
[03:03] <rob_lap> 404 not found?
[03:04] <pitti> Kamion: I have the set -x output, I'll copy it to another hd partition and will send it to you once my desktop has network back
[03:04] <pitti> mvo: did you add apt network sources in expert mode?
[03:05] <bddebian> Hello
[03:05] <pitti> Kamion: shall I try anything? I can add back the bind mounts and execute something manually if you want
[03:06] <mvo> pitti: not sure, what was your setting
[03:06] <mvo> ?
[03:06] <Kamion> pitti: set -x output will do for now
[03:07] <maswan> fabbione: hi, sorry, we didn't get around to swapping disks. Hopefully RSN.
[03:07] <pitti> mvo: see above; the bind mounts disappear when I add network sources
[03:07] <fabbione> maswan: no problem :) main is all done ;)
[03:16] <xhaker> will you rebuild an image today for testing? it looks like 12.1 is already well tested from what fabbione said
[03:18] <Kamion> xhaker: yees
[03:18] <Kamion> er, yes
[03:19] <Kamion> if nothing else, 12.1 says "Release Candidate", we can't release it like that :)
[03:19] <HiddenWolf> Is anyone here a canonical guru involved marginally with PR?
[03:19] <xhaker> Kamion.. i meant for testing
[03:19] <xhaker> not release
[03:19] <Kamion> xhaker: yes, so did I
[03:20] <mvo> Kamion: what do you think about http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3011 ?
[03:20] <Kamion> we need to test the final image, we can't just rebuild and release
[03:20] <xhaker> ohh
[03:20] <xhaker> :)
[03:20] <xhaker> any ETA?
[03:20] <Kamion> xhaker: no
[03:21] <Kamion> mvo: hmm, I think it's post-breezy
[03:21] <Kamion> mvo: thanks for the fix though, we can roll it in first thing in dapper
[03:21] <ajmitch> pitti: moodle in universe has security holes, want me to lookup CANs & put them in changelog?
[03:22] <Kamion> mvo: (I've applied it to my local copy)
[03:22] <pitti> ajmitch: sure
[03:22] <ajmitch> ok, google found it :)
[03:22] <mvo> Kamion: thanks, it now uses the ctime of the hook as initial timevalue, that shouldn't lead to any problem (at least I can't think of any)
[03:23] <Kamion> yeah, I think the problem is probably minor enough that we can get away with it as a known issue
[03:24] <pitti> mvo, Kamion: I described everything in #17637
[03:25] <mvo> pitti: thanks, I just rebootet to test (wanted to figure the notification issue first)
[03:27] <\sh> ajmitch: wanna do the phpmyadmin security upload, too? :)
[03:27] <\sh> grmpf...brb
[03:27] <jkrogh> The amd64-k8-smp kernel oopses for me (#17636) Where can I find older versions to test with? 
[03:27] <ajmitch> \sh: erm, what's the hole there?
[03:28] <ajmitch> since pitti uploaded it awhile ago
[03:28] <doko> Kamion: hmm, ia32-libs did FTFBS on ia64, cannot fetch the changelog yet
[03:29] <Kamion> doko: aargh
[03:29] <doko> s/changelog/build log/
[03:29] <dholbach> elmo: could you please add pvm (sid) to your sync list?
[03:33] <bddebian> dholbach: No, you have to stand in line too ;-)
[03:33] <Kamion> dpkg-deb: failed to open package info file `debian/lib32z1/DEBIAN/control' for reading: No such file or directory
[03:33] <Kamion> dh_builddeb: command returned error code 512
[03:33] <Kamion> doko: ^--
[03:34] <Kamion> doko: 1.4ubuntu2 failed too, we'll ignore this
[03:34] <Kamion> the last version to succeed was 0.5ubuntu6
[03:34] <Kamion> and that didn't make it to the archive
[03:34] <Kamion>  ia32-libs | 0.5ubuntu3 |        breezy | ia64
[03:35] <doko> hmm, the fix looks simple however
[03:36] <Kamion> doko: it's post-breezy
[03:42] <mvo> Kamion: vim is acting strange in the install. I choose "edit sources.list by hand (in apt-setup)"
[03:43] <Kamion> mvo: #6627
[03:43] <Kamion> best solved by disabling the editor option, I suspect
[03:43] <Kamion> (but only in the first stage)
[03:43] <mvo> Kamion: ok, thanks
[03:46] <mvo> pitti: I can reproduce the hang now too (after adding the network sources)
[03:46] <pitti> mvo: see my bug report
[03:46] <Kamion> I need the log file before looking at it
[03:48] <pitti> Kamion: my desktop install finsihed 30 seconds ago, I'm at the phone, I'll attach it ASAP
[03:48] <Kamion> ok
[03:48] <Kamion> I'll be off testing the powerpc install for a while to see if I can duplicate this oo.o2-help-en-us thing
[03:50] <dholbach> amd64 dvd memtest gives million rows of "0104"
[03:50] <dholbach> will check with amd64 cd
[03:50] <dholbach> same
[03:53] <dholbach> same for live :/
[03:54] <mvo> dholbach: amd64 memtest gives me "Loading...." here (nothing more)
[03:54] <dholbach> hrm
[03:54] <dholbach> will try on i386
[03:54] <dholbach> i386 dvd gives me 4000, but in a slower rate
[03:54] <mvo> dholbach: i386 just gave me the same result (but 6 times "Loading....")
[03:55] <mvo> on two different machine with two different cds :/
[03:56] <\sh> later guys
[03:57] <zyga> hi again
[03:57] <Kamion> dholbach, mvo: I'll look, but if you can try to figure out what's up, that would be great
[03:57] <Kamion> this used to work
[03:58] <zyga> mvo: hi
[03:58] <dholbach> i'll look
[03:58] <mvo> hi zyga 
[03:58] <zyga> mvo: problems with update-manager?
[03:58] <mvo> zyga: I hope not, why do you ask?
[03:59] <pitti> mvo: are you still in the installer? I can't find my log, I must have put it on a partition that was overwritten
[03:59] <zyga> mvo: ah, some people on u-translators have noticed a regression in translations
[04:00] <mvo> zyga: I'm not aware of this, it should be a rosetta thing I imagine?
[04:01] <zyga> mvo: yes something murky is still happening
[04:01] <Kamion> I'm fairly sure I tested memtest86+ since the last sync
[04:02] <zyga> mvo: okay back to work - I'll be out of your way untill dapper
[04:02] <mvo> Kamion: it works fine after the install, it seem to be broken when run from the cd
[04:03] <Kamion> whoa, DVD drive goes CHUNKCHUNKCHUNKCHUNKCHUNKCHUNKCHUNKCHUNK when I boot memtest
[04:03] <dholbach> mine didnt
[04:03] <mvo> Kamion: nice way to describe the sound :)
[04:03] <bddebian> hehe
[04:04] <bddebian> That's what my HD sounded like last night before it died completely :'-(
[04:04] <zyga> Kamion: lol :'-)
[04:04] <johnm> Kamion: freeloading tray, or a laptop tray? Thats normally unbalanced cd's or some such
[04:05] <Kamion> johnm: no, the disc is fine and boots normally otherwise
[04:05] <Kamion> tray's fine too
[04:05] <johnm> Kamion: btw.. gold star for the sound->text :)
[04:05] <johnm> Kamion: I blame electromagnetic solar interference.
[04:07] <zyga> mvo: back so soon?
[04:07] <mvo> zyga: nah, just needed to switch network connection
[04:08] <Kamion> it's printing 8000 repeatedly for me on amd64/install
[04:10] <dholbach> i had 0104 on all amd64 disks and 4000 on all i386 disks
[04:10] <dholbach> mvo was lucky, he even got a "Loading" test
[04:10] <dholbach> text
[04:12] <j^> arg, x cashes again after suspend
[04:12] <j^> XV
[04:12] <j^> i830m
[04:13] <j^> it did not do this for some time now
[04:13] <j^> could this be a regression in 6.8.2-77
[04:14] <pitti> mvo: got thrown out again, but in case you said something: I recovered the log now (forgot to umount last time)
[04:14] <mvo> pitti: ok, I rebooted since then
[04:15] <bslima> launchpad.net is down ?
[04:16] <jdub> bslima: looks ok here
[04:17] <bslima> trying to Save & Continue in translation and all i get is Programming Error
[04:17] <infinity> Argh.
[04:17] <Kamion> bslima: #launchpad would be a better place to ask about that
[04:17] <infinity> So, am I the only person who's noticed that hibernate just plai ndoesn't work anymore?
[04:17] <jbailey> infinity: WFM
[04:18] <infinity> jbailey : Did you try on a fresh install?
[04:18] <jbailey> From abvout a week ago
[04:19] <infinity> I get "reading image ... done" <random junk> "suspend= needs to be in your command line"... And yes, it IS specified in initramfs.conf, and yes I regenerated my initrd and tried again, for paranoia's sake.
[04:19] <infinity> Try with today's image.  Humour me.
[04:19] <Kamion> Unpack the file
[04:19] <Kamion>     from the package and rename it to an 8.3 filename with an extension other
[04:19] <Kamion>     than .bin
[04:19] <Kamion> oh, bugger
[04:20] <dholbach> did the file name change in the meantime?
[04:20] <dholbach> (because as you said... it used to work)
[04:20] <Kamion> I changed it a while back to fix isolinux problems, but I think it always had .bin
[04:20] <Kamion> however, not sure, and it's worth pursuing
[04:21] <infinity> jbailey : Interestingly enough, on my "ripe" installation, it doesn't work anymore either (though it used to), so it's not just new installs.
[04:21] <Kamion> if s/\.bin// fixes it, I can do that very quickly in debian-cd
[04:21] <dholbach> cool
[04:21] <infinity> s/\.bin/\.tst/ or something.
[04:21] <infinity> If it really wants the .3
[04:21] <Kamion> nah, the FAQ suggests dropping the extension altogether
[04:24] <infinity> Kamion : What editor is invoked in the "edit sources.list by hand" step in expert?
[04:24] <mvo> infinity: it's vim, but the bug about it is known
[04:25] <infinity> Kamion : Whatever it is (well, it was /usr/bin/editor, apparently, but not sure what that would really be), it looked vi-like, and it also didn't work.
[04:25] <ivoks> jdub: ping
[04:25] <infinity> mvo : Oh, okay.  Cool.
[04:25] <infinity> I had to kill it, use nano, then run apt-get update in the chroot.
[04:25] <infinity> \o/
[04:25] <mvo> infinity: I noticed it a bit earlier, don't have the bugnumer in scrollback anymore, sorry
[04:25] <infinity> I assume vim + boglterm = death?
[04:25] <jdub> ivoks: pong
[04:26] <ivoks> jdub: could you, please, add me to planet? :)
[04:26] <infinity> Well, other than known bugs, then, my only bug is hibernate.  I should look into that and see if it's simple breakage, or something to live with for 6 months.
[04:26] <jdub> ivoks: you're in the config, but it hasn't been updated
[04:26] <infinity> mvo : Did you test hibernate on any of your installs?
[04:27] <ivoks> jdub: ?
[04:27] <mvo> infinity: no, doing that now
[04:27] <ivoks> hm..
[04:27] <jdub> ivoks: hrm, actually, no you're not
[04:27] <ivoks> :)
[04:27] <jdub> and i can't see an email with a planet addition requesti from you
[04:28] <infinity> If it's only failing on my laptop, that'd be some kinda special.
[04:28] <infinity> But I can also deal.
[04:28] <ivoks> jdub: i didn't send any request
[04:28] <jdub> ivoks: aha, there you go
[04:28] <ivoks> jdub: i talked only with you about that
[04:28] <jdub> ivoks: please send your feed url to me via email
[04:29] <ivoks> ok
[04:29] <dholbach> did anyone try amd64-dvd-install yet?
[04:31] <mvo> infinity: works here 
[04:31] <doko> dholbach: yes, life works fine, install as well
[04:31] <mvo> infinity: on my i386 test-system at least
[04:32] <dholbach> doko: ok, then it was just a bad burn, it broke spectactularly for me
[04:32] <infinity> mvo : PATA, SCSI, or SATA?
[04:32] <infinity> mvo : I suspect it may only be broken (again) on SATA.
[04:35] <mvo> infinity: PATA, I have a SATA system here to test (but it sync the amd64 dvd right now, so I have to test later)
[04:36] <mjg59> Hang on, just let me get grub back on this system
[04:36] <jbailey> I always find the "failed to initialize HAL!" message a bit disturbing.
[04:36] <Kamion> dholbach, mvo: memtest86+ fixed; thanks for the report
[04:36] <jdub> Kamion: chance of seeing you at the formal hall tonight, score from 1 to 10?
[04:36] <pitti> jbailey: when did yo see this?
[04:36] <mjg59> jdub: 0
[04:36] <dholbach> Kamion: de rien
[04:36] <Kamion> jdub: meeting you at the pub afterwards
[04:36] <mjg59> But he'll be along later
[04:36] <jbailey> pitti: A couple seconds ago on an i386 live CD
[04:37] <jdub> Kamion: ok, rad.
[04:37] <jbailey> pitti: It's still on my screen, I was just digging for the install report instructions.
[04:37] <pitti> jbailey: hm, WFM - can you please try to run "sudo hald --verbose=yes --daemon=no" to find where it crashes?
[04:37] <Kamion> jbailey: just on a hunch, can you check that /sbin/start-stop-daemon isn't the dummy version?
[04:37] <pitti> jbailey: maybe it also was never started in the first place
[04:37] <Kamion> I saw that the other day and still don't know quite why, but it might have been an artifact of other problems
[04:38] <bddebian> Hey what is sabdfl doing sending out an e-mail to vote for mjg59 when we can't even do it yet.. :-)
[04:38] <jbailey> Kamion: It seems to be a binary file.  Is the dummy one a shell script?  Otherwise, how do I tell?
[04:38] <Kamion> jbailey: it's not the dummy one then
[04:38] <Kamion> yes, the dummy one is a shell script
[04:39] <pitti> bah, brb
[04:39] <jbailey> pitti: I did see a /dev/mem permission denied fly past.
[04:43] <infinity> mvo : Alright, mjg59 can't reproduce it either, so I'm going to assume I'm just special, and investigate it post-release.
[04:44] <infinity> mvo : Weird corner-case "only Adam is affected" bugs hardly seem critical.
[04:44] <bddebian> infinity: You are definetly special ;-P
[04:44] <Kamion> come back, pitti, I want to talk to you
[04:46] <whiprush> jdub: chief refrigeration engineer!!
[04:46] <mjg59> Ooh, it's raining
[04:46] <whiprush> jdub: i'd like to run the stars of the universe tonite. but i can't for the life of me figure out how to inline screenshots.
[04:47] <bddebian> Stars of the Universe?
[04:47] <whiprush> just an overview of cool stuff in universe
[04:47] <whiprush> for the fridge
[04:47] <bddebian> Ahh, cool
[04:47] <dholbach> and cool people in universe :)
[04:48] <jdub> whiprush: can't do atm, other than using <a>
[04:48] <bddebian> Oh so \sh, slomo, dholbach, ajmitch, etc :-)
[04:48] <whiprush> k
[04:48] <dholbach> bddebian: and you
[04:48] <bddebian> pfft
[04:50] <whiprush> jdub: would you be opposed to putting that story on the wiki then and just linking it? It kind of really needs screenshots.
[04:50] <pitti> jbailey: /dev/mem should be inaccessible to hal, that's fine
[04:50] <pitti> jbailey: did the hal process stop or did it stay running?
[04:52] <jbailey> pitti: It stayes running.  I hit C-c, though to clear away the terminal
[04:52] <Kamion> pitti: right, so apparently you answered "yes" to the "Add another apt source" question, when the default is "no"
[04:52] <Kamion> the bug appears to only trigger in that circumstance
[04:52] <pitti> Kamion: yes, right
[04:53] <pitti> Kamion: but default install does add network sources - it does that differently?
[04:53] <Kamion> pitti: yeah
[04:53] <pitti> jbailey: hm, so it is unlikely that it died when it was called by dbus at boot
[04:53] <Kamion> it's a fabbione special
[04:53] <jbailey> pitti: Anything I can do to check it?
[04:54] <Kamion> we're ditching the current apt-setup and moving to a version specially written for use in d-i in dapper
[04:54] <Kamion> until then I think we'll just live with it - it's too complex to fix in a rush :(
[04:54] <pitti> jbailey: on the live CD it's hard since you can't alter the boot sequence
[04:54] <pitti> Kamion: I agree
[04:54] <pitti> Kamion: but at least we know the reason now
[04:54] <jbailey> pitti: Does it use initramfs?  Can I issue a break to stop in that and climb in somehow?
[04:55] <pitti> jbailey: I doubt; dbus is started from normal init script, and hal from dbus
[04:55] <pitti> jbailey: at boot you could watch out for the dbus and hal messge, though
[04:56] <mdz> morning
[04:56] <Kamion> pitti: yep, glad about that
[04:56] <dholbach> morning matt
[04:56] <Kamion> pitti: just this powerpc oo.o2-help issue now
[04:56] <mdz> how do we look?
[04:56] <Kamion> mdz: what I just said to pitti, basically
[04:56] <fabbione> mdz: pretty good
[04:56] <mdz> Kamion: what's the issue?
[04:56] <Kamion> oo.o2-help-en-us isn't getting installed on powerpc, as yet undiagnosed
[04:57] <Kamion> I'm about to boot and try it out
[04:58] <ogra> morning mdz 
[04:58] <pitti> Hi mdz
[04:58] <seb128> hi mdz
[04:58] <pitti> Kamion: actually, language-support-en is not installed
[04:59] <Kamion> mdz: other than that, not bad - rebuilt livefses for acpi-support and ia32-libs bugs, everything else deferred unless it can be fixed easily in CD builds
[04:59] <Kamion> mdz: dholbach and mvo caught a broken memtest installation on the CD, fixed
[04:59] <pitti> mdz: we updated the BreezyTestPlan page eagerly
[04:59] <mdz> I asked for a phone call if showstoppers were found
[05:00] <pitti> darn, brb
[05:01] <fabbione> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyTestPlanServer <-
[05:02] <dholbach> fabbione, Kamion: installed nicely on amd64, just doing some basic testing 
[05:03] <Kamion> mdz: I'm sorry, I clearly missed that in scrollback :-(
[05:04] <Kamion> also, CONF.sh still said Release Candidate at last build (updated now) and dists/breezy/Release needs to say "Ubuntu Breezy 5.10" likewise before final builds
[05:05] <mdz> Kamion: you weren't up yet, but fabbione and pitti certainly were
[05:06] <fabbione> mdz: yes, but it's all undercontrol and the OO2 is fixed already. it only needs propagation
[05:06] <fabbione> mdz: so it's not so bad as it seems.. instead the tests look pretty good
[05:06] <Kamion> er, it is? the ia32-libs fix only affects amd64; pitti reported lots of failures on powerpc
[05:06] <mdz> fabbione: yes, but it was a showstopper and I was explicit
[05:06] <fabbione> oh ppc..
[05:06] <fabbione> Kamion: missed the ppc bit...
[05:07] <mdz> ubuntu-desktop on powerpc doesn't depend on language-support-en either
[05:07] <Kamion> and so it shouldn't
[05:07] <Kamion> base-config installs l-s-* separately
[05:08] <mdz> ah, yes, only live
[05:08] <mdz> I thought we just added that to desktop ages ago
[05:08] <Kamion> nah, I made archive-copier/base-config always install en
[05:08] <jdub> mdz: good luck
[05:08] <Kamion> I'm trying to reproduce the failure now
[05:11] <mdz> the oo.o2 help seems to work fine in my powerpc install from last night
[05:11] <Kamion> hmm
[05:11] <mdz> which was a plain english/us install
[05:11] <pitti> mdz: hm, then I did something different - did you install with network?
[05:11] <Kamion> pitti: was this a German install?
[05:11] <pitti> Kamion: yes, German without net
[05:11] <Kamion> pitti: please mention these little details
[05:12] <pitti> ok, sorry
[05:12] <mdz> pitti: that one had network, I believe
[05:12] <Kamion> it'll certainly only affect non-networked installs
[05:12] <mdz> pitti: so it's language-support-de which was missing?
[05:12] <Kamion> well, likely
[05:12] <pitti> mdz: no, -en
[05:12] <pitti> mdz: -de is not on the CDs, and not essential
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: but l-support-en depends on ooo-help-en-us, which makes ooo help work
[05:13] <pitti> after installing it manually, it worked fine
[05:13] <mdz> pitti: oo.o2-help-de should make it work, too, of course
[05:13] <pitti> right
[05:13] <Kamion> it's possible language-support-de was out of date on de.archive.ubuntu.com at the time of the install
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: l-support-en and the help package are even on the CD, jsut not installed
[05:13] <Kamion> that explains oo.o2-help-de not being there, but not oo.o2-help-en-us
[05:13] <pitti> Kamion: btw, we talk about -en, which is on the CD (just to make sure)
[05:14] <Kamion> oh, of course, non-networked, so it won't have been able to grab -de
[05:14] <Kamion> pitti: yep
[05:14] <pitti> yes
[05:14] <fabbione> Kamion: could it be that base-config doesn't attempt -en if -de is to be installed?
[05:14] <Kamion> I don't think this is a showstopper, as described
[05:14] <Kamion> but I'll test it to make sure
[05:15] <fabbione> Kamion: see. i was right.. ppc was ok :P
[05:15] <Kamion> fabbione: anything's possible, but that's not what the code's supposed to do ...
[05:15] <bddebian> Hey folks, I don't know if it's an issue or not but last night I was re-installing on my thinkpad and my install died (bad CD I think) so I tried to update manually and metacity and thunderbird want to remove themselves but fail on postrm
[05:15] <pitti> well, installation without network should work
[05:15] <Kamion> pitti: I'm not disagreeing it's a bug
[05:15] <infinity> bddebian : postrm bugs aren't particularly release critical at this stage, but filing bugs never hurt anyone.
[05:16] <bddebian> infinity: OK, thx
[05:16] <bddebian> Except that I can't get the damn things to remove even with --force
[05:16] <infinity> No amount of forcing will fix a broken postrm, only editing /var/lib/dpkg/info/${package}.postrm will do it for you.
[05:17] <bddebian> Doh
[05:17] <infinity> But, odds are, you're in a special case group where "it broken because other stuff broke first"
[05:17] <bddebian> Aye
[05:17] <bob2> unless it's dpkg --force-dont-run-maintainer-scripts or whatever it is
[05:17] <Lathiat> dpkg could dow ith an option not to run postrm
[05:17] <Lathiat> or prerm, etc
[05:17] <infinity> Anyhow, file a bug with the output and wtf appears to be wrong, postrm shouldn't fail even if the package is hideously broken, so it's a bug, just not a critical one.
[05:17] <bddebian> Lathiat: So fix it ;-)
[05:18] <Riddell> there's a lot of kernel output messages on these CDs.  I'm sure that didn't happen in breezy
[05:18] <Riddell> in hoary rather
[05:18] <bddebian> infinity: Will do when I get home, I can't get to the machine from work since I couldn't install ssh because of it :-)
[05:18] <Kamion> You can certainly install packages even in the presence of a broken postrm. You might have to resort to dpkg rather than apt.
[05:20] <Kamion> pitti: could you 'echo GET localechooser/supported-locales' on the system that failed to install language-support-en, please?
[05:21] <fabbione> Riddell: if you are referring to the [$lotsofnumbers]  it's wanted and on purpose
[05:22] <pitti> Kamion: hm, I only saved the log files from that system; I need to reinstall it (takes ~ 45 minutes)
[05:22] <Riddell> fabbione: what's the purpose?
[05:22] <Kamion> pitti: does that include /var/log/installer/cdebconf/?
[05:22] <Kamion> pitti: if so, questions.dat from there will do fine
[05:22] <pitti> Kamion: yes
[05:23] <fabbione> Riddell: be able to trace async kernel events that leads to crash and track it back to the real order of events.
[05:23] <fabbione> Riddell: and no.. it's not a boot option
[05:23] <Simza> hi fabbione :)
[05:23] <Simza> you're joining us harer, aren't you`http://www.montrealcam.com/en-biodome.html
[05:24] <pitti> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/shots/questions.dat
[05:24] <bddebian> Kamion: Aye, it was 1:00am so I wasn't thinking well :-(
[05:24] <fabbione> Simza: hey
[05:24] <Simza> hm, when did I reconnect..
[05:24] <Riddell> fabbione: ok, sounds useful :)
[05:24] <Kamion> pitti: hm, looks fine
[05:25] <pitti> Kamion: I said "no" to "download language support", but I thought that only referred to l-support-de
[05:25] <fabbione> Simira: i  guess so... 
[05:26] <Kamion> pitti: ah, now the penny drops
[05:26] <Kamion> pitti: that's the bug - saying no there affects -en too
[05:26] <pitti> Kamion: aah
[05:27] <fabbione> pitti: TADADA
[05:27] <Kamion> pitti: if you answer yes, it should be harmless (install won't break due to that just because you have no network, AFAIK) and you'll get l-s-en
[05:27] <Kamion> definitely a bug, but not a showstopper because there's a workaround
[05:29] <pitti> Kamion: ok, since it said "download" I always said "no" since I can't download
[05:29] <pitti> alright, great
[05:29] <pitti> so if we get the new ia32-libs, everything should be fine? or are there any open issues left?
[05:29] <pitti> I assume we can't fix hwdb-client 
[05:30] <Kamion> yeah; perhaps we should have just put oo.o2-help-en-us in desktop since it's more essential than the rest of language support
[05:30] <Kamion> but too late now
[05:30] <Kamion> I know of no other open issues, beyond the need for a CD rebuild in about ten minutes to fix the labelling
[05:30] <ogra> pitti, in oem mode ? i didnt even know it had a versio there
[05:30] <Kamion> ogra: the OEM installer's "system test" is hwdb-client
[05:31] <ogra> oh
[05:31] <Kamion> seemed about as good as anything else
[05:31] <Kamion> pitti: what's the hwdb-client problem?
[05:31] <pitti> Kamion: sound test is broken, and network test hangs when there is no network
[05:31] <ogra> do you have fping in this mode ? it uses fping to get the replys
[05:31] <Kamion> pitti: bug, but not showstopper
[05:31] <pitti> but in the latter case you can kill the X server to continue
[05:32] <pitti> right
[05:32] <Kamion> ogra: we install hwdb-client and its dependencies
[05:32] <pitti> ogra: hwdb sound check works fine in normal system - what do you use? aplay?
[05:32] <ogra> else i'm not sure why it shows the network test at all, since it should skip it if no defaultroute is available
[05:32] <ogra> pitti, a gnome function...
[05:33] <pitti> ... which in turn uses esd maybe?
[05:33] <Kamion> ogra: GNOME isn't started at this point
[05:33] <Kamion> we just fire up hwdb-client in a custom display manager
[05:33] <ogra> pitti, which in turn uses what gnome uses
[05:33] <pitti> ogra: ok, that explains it - maybe use aplay then?
[05:33] <ogra> Kamion, ahh, that explains it..
[05:33] <ogra> is aplay always available ? 
[05:33] <Kamion> ogra: if you need something, depend on it ...
[05:34] <pitti> ogra: should be
[05:34] <Kamion> anyway, this is all post-breezy
[05:34] <ogra> Kamion, i depend on python-gnome2 iirc
[05:34] <mdz> Kamion: if we're going to rebuild anyway, is there a safe fix for the l-s-en issue?
[05:34] <pitti> mdz: we could seed l-s-en to the desktop seed, no?
[05:34] <pitti> erm, maybe only ooo help
[05:34] <mdz> pitti: we could, but that's intrusive
[05:35] <pitti> otherwise, let's just forget about it
[05:35] <Kamion> mdz: everything that doesn't touch desktop that I can think of carries a risk of breaking server installs
[05:35] <Kamion> server installs preseed that archive-copier question to make sure language-support-* isn't installed
[05:35] <mdz> so this affects non-English, non-networked installs? or all non-networked installs?
[05:36] <Kamion> all non-networked installs where you answer "no" to that question
[05:36] <Kamion> (the default is "yes")
[05:37] <Kamion> oh, in fact, that means only non-English installs, because that question isn't shown in English installs
[05:37] <pitti> for dapper, it should not offer the question in the first place when installing without network
[05:37] <Kamion> we can't reword the question because it's translated and shown in all non-English installs
[05:37] <fabbione> Kamion: isn't possible to just hide the question?
[05:37] <pitti> but that's not too bad for breezy now IMHO
[05:37] <mdz> Kamion: what's the text of the question?
[05:38] <Kamion> fabbione: no, the question is there because it downloads lots of stuff, and if you're doing only two or three installs at the same time it really canes your network
[05:38] <Kamion> _Description: Download language support?
[05:38] <Kamion>  The installation CD does not contain full support for your language. Do you
[05:38] <Kamion>  want to download the required packages from the Internet?
[05:38] <Kamion> it's been there since hoary
[05:38] <mdz> and it asks this question even if no Internet connection is available?
[05:38] <pitti> yes
[05:38] <Kamion> yes, archive-copier doesn't know
[05:38] <pitti> that's why I said "no" in the first place
[05:38] <Kamion> and the first-stage network might be broken
[05:39] <Kamion> (e.g. ath0)
[05:39] <mdz> the natural response will be to say no if the network is unavailable
[05:39] <Kamion> I'm trying to think of a safe fix
[05:39] <pitti> Kamion: would seeding ooo-help-en-us to desktop be too intrusive?
[05:39] <mdz> I thought l-s-en was part of desktop
[05:40] <Kamion> pitti: well, mdz said above that it was
[05:40] <Kamion> that's certainly the safest fix
[05:40] <mdz> pitti: it also doesn't solve the problem
[05:40] <mdz> it's language-support-en which is missing
[05:40] <mdz> that contains other important English stuff
[05:40] <Kamion> yeah, it solves the most obvious manifestation though
[05:40] <pitti> mdz: but non-english installs won't miss them
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: l-support-en does not need to be installed by default on non-english systems in the first place (I always kill it)
[05:41] <mdz> what's the post-install workaround?  can this be corrected with language-selector?
[05:41] <Kamion> I can possibly hack base-config and debian-cd in tandem
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: if you select English input help in l-selector, it should work (as any other language should, too)
[05:42] <Kamion> fwiw, the underlying bug has I think been there since hoary
[05:43] <mdz> that's easy enough to test
[05:43] <mdz> pitti: could you repeat your test with hoary and verify?
[05:43] <pitti> mdz: sure
[05:43] <mdz> if it's a hoary bug that no one has reported in 6 months then it's not a  showstopper
[05:43] <mdz> it may not be anyway, but it certainly is a wart
[05:44] <Kamion> mdz: hmm, one safe fix would be to munge the Ubuntu preseed file to install language-support-en with desktop
[05:44] <Kamion> possibly Kubuntu and Edubuntu too, but inclined to leave those alone if we can't test them in time
[05:45] <Riddell> I can test
[05:45] <Kamion> that will be faster, too, since it doesn't require an upload
[05:45] <Kamion> hm, although Ubuntu proper doesn't actually have a preseed file right now; it would be better to upload base-config with a new default
[05:45] <Kamion> (less intrusive to people doing custom work)
[05:46] <pitti> Kamion: can I test this with hoary without doing a full install? it lasts forever on an iBook
[05:46] <mdz> Kamion: meanwhile, let's build final live CDs
[05:46] <Kamion> pitti: not any easy way I can think of
[05:46] <pitti> ok
[05:46] <Kamion> mdz: building
[05:47] <fabbione> pitti: isn't that bug reproducible on all arches given no-net and no-english install? if so you can use anything else than ppc :)
[05:47] <Kamion> right
[05:47] <pitti> ok, I use amd64
[05:47] <pitti> but I have to log off IRC then
[05:47] <pitti> cu later
[05:48] <bddebian> OK, I have no patience for installing on a PIII 550Mhz.. :-)
[05:50] <bddebian> jbailey: Tell me about it :-)
[05:51] <Kamion>  Template: base-config/package-selection
[05:51] <Kamion>  Type: string
[05:51] <Kamion> -Default: ~tubuntu-standard|~tubuntu-desktop
[05:51] <Kamion> +Default: ~tubuntu-standard|~tubuntu-desktop|language-support-en
[05:51] <Kamion>  Description: preseeded set of packages to install
[05:51] <Kamion> mdz: ^--
[05:51] <mdz> Kamion: any new failure modes you can think of?
[05:52] <spayne> jbailey: don't waste you life - it will take most of it :)
[05:52] <Kamion> Riddell: to test with Kubuntu, do a normal install (without net and answering no to that question) and, just before you reboot, edit /var/log/debconf-seed and change '~tkubuntu-standard|~tkubuntu-desktop' to '~tkubuntu-standard|~tkubuntu-desktop|language-support-en'
[05:53] <Kamion> mdz: if language-support-en isn't installable, none of the standard or desktop system will get installed
[05:53] <Kamion> mdz: oh, and the progress bar will jump a bit, probably
[05:54] <Kamion> (because language-support-en will take zero time to install the second time round ...)
[05:54] <mdz> I'm leaning toward leaving it alone at this point
[05:54] <mdz> I'm not sure we have time for another round if something goes wrong
[05:55] <mdz> we already need to roll a full set of CDs and DVDs and test them all
[05:55] <mdz> we don't do edubuntu DVDs, right?
[05:56] <ogra> mdz, we do
[05:56] <Kamion> mdz: before doing any CD builds, please remove mcmurdo.ubuntu.com from ~/.ssh/known_hosts and 'ssh mcmurdo.ubuntu.com', ctrl-c'ing the password prompt
[05:56] <ogra> its essential
[05:56] <Kamion> I've done that for myself and cdimage
[05:57] <mdz> Kamion: done
[05:57] <ogra> mdz, the CD had only space for -en ... kde langpacks are awfully big (15Mb and more) 
[05:57] <mjg59> Craptop works.
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: that's my slight inclination too
[05:57] <bddebian> Craptop?
[05:57] <mdz> ogra: we barely have support for non-english languages on the ubuntu CD
[05:57] <Kamion> at least we know the failure mode here, and it's not *that* bad
[05:58] <ogra> mdz, yes, thats why a edubuntu DVD is important for people without internet access
[05:58] <mdz> ogra: they can only be essential if you can actually test them
[05:58] <ogra> my DVD writer is broken... let me see if i can get a new one until tomorrow... i'll download the DVD iso in any case
[05:59] <Kamion> if you can't test it, find somebody you trust to delegate it to
[06:00] <ogra> yup
[06:00] <dholbach> me too
[06:01] <dholbach> and i'll get a bunch of new DVDs (as i take it, i'll need them)
[06:01] <mdz> dholbach: I bought 10 DVD+RW  and they have lasted the entire lifetime of Ubuntu
[06:02] <dholbach> mdz: i got CD+RW, but didnt manage to get hold of DVD+RWs, so i burned away all my DVD+Rs
[06:02] <ogra> dholbach, i have 10 lying around... come over and pick them up :P
[06:03] <dholbach> anyway, i'll be off to get some and get some food as well, brb
[06:03] <ogra> mine erase quite well...
[06:03] <jbailey> Lathiat: Occasional stretch breaks are good. =)
[06:03] <ogra> and i use the same media since hoary for hoary, breezy and edubuntu testing
[06:03] <Lathiat> jbailey: heh
[06:04] <segfault> kamion: the second stage of installation is not translated to pt_BR, but those strings were translated in Rosetta
[06:05] <Kamion> segfault: those strings are not subject to language packs and need to be imported into the apt package
[06:05] <Kamion> segfault: I do not know what translations were imported before release
[06:06] <segfault> i sent to mvo, iirc
[06:06] <Keybuk> I just bought 200 CD-Rs instead, for about 10p
[06:06] <ogra> mdz, have you seen ThinClientHowto ? it has some weird additions 
[06:06] <mdz> ogra: no
[06:07] <ogra> editing hosts.allow etc...
[06:07] <mvo> segfault: I probably only imported them into rosetta 
[06:07] <segfault> mvo: :(
[06:07] <mvo> IIRC thery where after the non-langpack translation freeze, sorry :/
[06:08] <ogra> mdz, and wasnt a hint to run ltsp-update-sshkeys in there before (in case the key isnt populated to the chroot) ? 
[06:08] <segfault> mvo: you said i had one day, heh
[06:08] <Kamion> segfault: I'm afraid it definitely wasn't updated in the package
[06:08] <Kamion> it is too late to fix it now for breezy
[06:09] <mdz> ogra: no, ltsp-update-sshkeys is automatically run by -build-client
[06:09] <mvo> segfault: wasn't that the mail with the missing attachment ;) ?
[06:09] <ogra> mdz, i know, but i thought there was a sentence before...
[06:09] <jbailey> pitti: hal error didn't reproduce on reboot.
[06:09] <mvo> (or am I confusing you now with someone else)
[06:09] <Kamion> mdz: daily-live updated
[06:09] <pitti> mdz, Kamion: ok, install finished
[06:09] <segfault> mvo: yeah, that with missing attach i sent 27/09, then i sent another one in 28/09
[06:09] <pitti> mdz, Kamion: l-support-en is not installed either, but OO.o help WORKS
[06:10] <Kamion> pitti: hoary?
[06:10] <pitti> mdz, Kamion: (with hoary/amd64 networkless no download)
[06:10] <segfault> and the nonlangpack freeze was in 29/09
[06:10] <Kamion> OO.o help was naturally handled in a completely different way in hoary
[06:10] <pitti> right, probably integrated into the main packages, or so
[06:10] <pitti> doko might know it
[06:11] <mvo> segfault: sorry, it looks like it got lost then. it is part of the installed system though (through rosetta)
[06:11] <Kamion> segfault: if this had been reported after the release candidate (when we'd fixed things not to strip translations from apt), it's possible we could have fixed it; it's too late now, I'm afraid
[06:12] <pitti> mdz, Kamion: hmm, looking closer: the help browser works, but you do need to install the help packages to make use of it; sorry, didn't look close enough at first
[06:12] <mdz> Kamion: we can live with the l-s-en bug; let's get install CDs and DVDs going
[06:12] <pitti> mdz, Kamion: so no regression
[06:12] <segfault> humm, no problem then
[06:12] <Kamion> mdz: they're going
[06:12] <doko> pitti: ?
[06:12] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[06:12] <Keybuk> all passes on i386 for me, and with netboot
[06:13] <Kamion> Keybuk: cool, we've been light on pre-release netboot testing
[06:13] <pitti> doko: nevermind
[06:13] <Kamion> I did a Kickstart test the other day to make sure that still worked
[06:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: I always make sure I do, as it's the only way to install stuff on my laptop
[06:14] <Keybuk> X config still fails on my desktop, but I'm getting increasingly convinced it's a card fault
[06:14] <Keybuk> as the ATI fglrx driver doesn't think there's any monitors connected!
[06:15] <ivoks> maybe it's keyboard? :)
[06:15] <ivoks> kickstart has some issues when there allready are some partitions
[06:16] <ivoks> installation freezes when one trys to run manual partitioning
[06:16] <mdz> Kamion: fabbione traditionally does netboot testing
[06:16] <bddebian> Damn, I can't catch a break.  Now this machine at work hangs trying to configure xorg... :'-(
[06:17] <Kamion> ivoks: doesn't surprise me; interaction during a Kickstart install can be tricky, particularly in partman
[06:17] <ivoks> yup :/
[06:18] <ivoks> i tried interactive since non-interactive didn't work :)
[06:18] <ivoks> Kamion: but appart that, kickstart works great with netboot
[06:18] <ivoks> i did 60 clients install in one day with it
[06:18] <fabbione> mdz: it's already tested for i386 (see wiki)
[06:19] <fabbione> Kamion: 99% of my installs are done via netboot
[06:19] <fabbione> Kamion: only at release i fire up CD's
[06:19] <Kamion> ivoks: cool
[06:20] <ivoks> Kamion: only thing that needs love is ldap auth after install :)
[06:21] <seb128> fabbione: where are the netinstall files?
[06:22] <fabbione> seb128: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/20050317ubuntu19/images/netboot/
[06:22] <fabbione> change $arch as required
[06:23] <seb128> fabbione: thanks
[06:23] <fabbione> np
[06:25] <Keybuk> seb128: make sure you have tftpd-hpa installed
[06:25] <Keybuk> not the ordinary tftpd, it doesn't work for netboot
[06:25] <fabbione> and you also need a proper dhcpd config
[06:25] <fabbione> otherwise it's foobar
[06:25] <seb128> Keybuk: k
[06:26] <Keybuk> yeah, untar the netboot tarball, and stick "next-server blah; filename pxelinux.0;" in the config for your dhcp
[06:27] <Keybuk> (where blah is your tftp server)
[06:28] <fabbione> Keybuk: yeah i just pasted him the config snippet
[06:28] <ivoks> there is one great howto
[06:29] <ivoks> http://wiki.koeln.ccc.de/index.php/Ubuntu_PXE_Install
[06:29] <Keybuk> you can get a bit used to netbooting though :p  I actually seed a couple of extra keybuk-* packages into it, which automatically pull stuff I always want and have postinsts to configure shit :p
[06:30] <Keybuk> so if I netboot my laptop, once it's done, it already has all the packages I want installed and is ready for me to drop in my home directory
[06:30] <fabbione> Keybuk: that's more or less what i do :)
[06:30] <ivoks> Keybuk: hehe i did script that does that for me :)
[06:31] <Keybuk> keybuk-launchpad-devel is a scary package, it rewrites postgresql config and stuff :p
[06:31] <ivoks> installs new kernel, compiles openmosix tools, sets up ldap auth, etc :)
[06:36] <jbailey> The ppc64 live test that's wanted is just hte ppc image on a ppc64 box, yes?
[06:36] <jbailey> I don't see a separate ppc64 image.
[06:36] <mdz> i386/live, powerpc/live, amd64/live OK here
[06:36] <fabbione> jbailey: there should be a ppc64 kernel on it
[06:36] <mdz> jbailey: yes
[06:36] <mdz> jbailey: as fabbione says
[06:37] <Kamion> jbailey: boot with live-powerpc64
[06:37] <mdz> BenC also has ppc64 I believe; has anyone seen him?
[06:37] <jbailey> 'k, thanks.
[06:47] <ogra> janimo, you added ubuntu-express to your metapackage ??
[06:48] <Kamion> it's in ubuntu/live too
[06:48] <ogra> heh
[06:49] <ogra> feels a bit like overhead :)
[06:50] <mdz> Kamion: live CDs are OK here; ping me once there are install CDs to sync
[06:51] <Lenhador> Hi! I'm trying to install an "user script" on Greasemonkey/Firefox, on Hoary, but my Firefox break with "segmentation fault"... what's happen?
[06:51] <Lenhador> how I fix it?
[06:52] <janimo> ogra, I don't bu tI see it's there in both kubuntu/ubuntu
[06:52] <janimo> maybe it's a diffrenece that they are doen on the server?
[06:52] <janimo> I just run update locally
[06:52] <janimo> and d onot use germinate
[06:52] <janimo> ogra, I thought ubuntu-express was postponed so I am suprised to see it there
[06:52] <ogra> yes, and the package you have in there is pretty useless... more a proof of concept than a program
[06:53] <ogra> janimo, nice that you pulled xscreensaver in, make sure it gets started in xfsession ... in a sidenote, i tried xubuntu on edubuntu yesterday, its really slick :)
[06:55] <Kamion> janimo: did you adjust the seed URL in update to point to your modified seeds?
[06:55] <Kamion> look for http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/
[06:58] <pitti> why do we disable power management now by default?
[07:00] <mdz> pitti: why do we what?
[07:01] <pitti> mdz: I just dist-upgraded, and the new acpi-support disabled power management
[07:01] <ogra> mdz, laptop mode disabled ? 
[07:01] <mdz> pitti: what do you mean by 'power management' in this context?
[07:01] <pitti> mdz: well, the package just said so
[07:01] <pitti>  * Disabling power management.
[07:01] <pitti> I'm sure it is intended, I'm just curious about the reason
[07:02] <elvirolo> hi all
[07:02] <ogra> mdz, http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6108
[07:02] <ogra> pitti, ^^^
[07:02] <mdz> ogra: I am familiar with that bug, yes
[07:02] <ogra> thats what was talked about before today in this channel
[07:02] <mdz> pitti: at what point does it print that message?
[07:02] <pitti> ah, thanks
[07:03] <pitti> mdz: after package installation (postinst, I assume)
[07:03] <pitti> oh, no, preinst
[07:03] <mdz> pitti: that is the message from the 'stop' action of the init script
[07:03] <infinity> pitti : Just edit /etc/default/acpi-support and enable laptop-mode, if you know it works for you.
[07:03] <mdz> nothing to do with 6108 or laptop-mode
[07:03] <infinity> It breaks for too many people to have it on by default.
[07:03] <ogra> mdz, 
[07:03] <ogra>    * Add some extra machines to the whitelists
 nothing to do with 6108 or laptop-mode
[07:03] <ogra>    * Depend on powermgmt-base
[07:03] <ogra>    * Disable restarting irda services by default
[07:03] <ogra>    * Disable laptop-mode by default
[07:03] <mdz> ogra: that has nothing to do with pitti's question or the message he saw
[07:03] <elvirolo> does anyone know whether the spca5xx bug has been fixed in the last update or not ?
[07:03] <mdz> ogra: trust me, I do read breezy-changes
[07:04] <infinity> Oh, and yes, that message just meant it was stopping/staring on upgrade, I assume.
[07:04] <ogra> mdz, ah, sorry
[07:04] <pitti> infinity: yes, it did not start again
[07:04] <infinity> Neat.
[07:04] <pitti> infinity: so that's the new intended default; fine
[07:04] <mdz> pitti: errr
[07:04] <pitti> I really was just curious
[07:04] <mdz> pitti: no, you should get 'checking battery state' in postinst
[07:04] <elvirolo> ideas anyone ?
[07:04] <pitti> sorry if I caused confusion
[07:04] <Kamion> elvirolo: no
[07:04] <mdz> pitti: I do
[07:04] <mdz> Setting up acpi-support (0.46) ...
[07:04] <mdz> Installing new version of config file /etc/acpi/power.sh ...
[07:04] <mdz> Installing new version of config file /etc/acpi/resume.sh ...
[07:04] <mdz> Installing new version of config file /etc/default/acpi-support ...
[07:04] <mdz>  * Checking battery state...                                             [ ok ] 
[07:04] <pitti> me too
[07:04] <mdz> pitti: the start/stop messages are quite confusing
[07:05] <pitti> ok
[07:05] <mdz> since they don't correspond to each other
[07:05] <janimo> Kamion, I adjusted the seed url to http://localhost/seeds as I have the branch only locally 
[07:05] <infinity> pitti : Right, that's the (rather unintuitive) output from acpi-support starting.
[07:05] <elvirolo> Kamion: you don't know or you do know it hasn't been fixed ?
[07:05] <mdz> elvirolo: the kernel has been frozen for a week now
[07:05] <Kamion> elvirolo: no, it has not been fixed, and in any case the place for tracking bugs is bugzilla, not polling a development channel
[07:05] <mdz> elvirolo: it has not and cannot be fixed for 5.10
[07:05] <elvirolo> OMG, this is an *absolutely critical* bug
[07:05] <mdz> I don't agree
[07:06] <pitti> elvirolo: it's not; it just affects a particular piece of hardware
[07:06] <elvirolo> the complete system *freezes* whenever one tries to access his/her webcam, even sysreq keys don't work
[07:06] <elvirolo> it would be better to have *no* support for these webcams rather than a system freeze!
[07:06] <Keybuk> it's not clear that this affects everyone
[07:07] <fabbione> elvirolo: it's absolutelu not critical
[07:07] <segfault> I've just finished an installation of x86 20051012 release in pt_BR, everything worked like a charm.
[07:07] <Keybuk> those it does affect have a simple fix, they can blacklist the module
[07:07] <elvirolo> and there's aslo the hp printers' bug
[07:07] <janimo> ogra, yeah xfce is slick but in the current state while better then what we had in hoary there are still rough edges.Many :(
[07:07] <segfault> besides that segond stage typo
[07:07] <Kamion> segfault: good, thanks
[07:07] <pitti> k, gotta leave for a while
[07:07] <Kamion> segfault: if you could note that on BreezyTestPlan, that'd be good
[07:07] <pitti> cu later
[07:07] <elvirolo> many people use hp printers, and many comments have been sent in the bugzilla, but nodoby seems to care
[07:07] <mdz> elvirolo: see /topic
[07:07] <ogra> janimo, yes, but its great as a lightweight desktop, i have many requests for this in edubuntu
[07:08] <elvirolo> ok sorry
[07:08] <Keybuk> elvirolo: there are always bugs in releases
[07:08] <mdz> elvirolo: I use an HP printer myself, and it works quite nicely
[07:08] <Kamion> janimo: ok, well that should work
[07:08] <ogra> janimo, note that we dont support sound yet in ltsp :) 
[07:08] <segfault> and some wrong strings inherited after the latest langpack release, there's others relating same stuff in ubuntu-translators
[07:08] <elvirolo> Keybuk: yes but these have been reported AGES ago
[07:08] <Kamion> janimo: are you saying that the stuff filled in by update doesn't correspond to your seeds
[07:08] <Kamion> elvirolo: I have open bugs since before warty
[07:08] <Kamion> janimo: ?
[07:08] <elvirolo> well that's very bad
[07:08] <Keybuk> elvirolo: we don't aim to fix every reported bug within the 6-months; sometimes it takes more than one release to do it
[07:09] <Kamion> elvirolo: no, it's not
[07:09] <Keybuk> that's one of the advantages of a 6-monthly release process, if a bug misses a release it's not that long to the next one
[07:09] <Kamion> elvirolo: don't presume to tell me how I'm performing without having checked what the bugs in question *are*
[07:09] <elvirolo> well, my printer doesn't work, one of my friends' printer doesn't work ... what am I to say ? I can't use Ubuntu anymore!
[07:09] <Kamion> they're either less-important or hard
[07:09] <elvirolo> and she doesn't want to use free software anymore 
[07:10] <fabbione> elvirolo: do you have patches for this bugs?
[07:10] <elvirolo> i don't mean to be blaming you, i know you're doing a great job
[07:10] <janimo> Kamion, sorry was away
[07:11] <elvirolo> i'm just telling that some things are wrong and are a drawback for ubuntu
[07:11] <Keybuk> there will always be bugs
[07:11] <Kamion> yes, we sadly do not have the resources to fix everything
[07:11] <mdz> elvirolo: we're working on putting the release together right now; please take this conversation elsewhere or wait until after the release
[07:11] <mdz> we need to keep this channel clear
[07:11] <zyga> elvirolo: look at the problem like this
[07:11] <mdz> all of you, please
[07:11] <mdz> this is not on-topic right now
[07:11] <elvirolo> mdz: ok, i'm sorry
[07:11] <zyga> elvirolo: if there is anyone who can fix this, please - step up
[07:11] <mdz> I'm happy to discuss it, just not in the middle of release prep
[07:11] <elvirolo> yeah i understand
[07:12] <janimo> Kamion, no it corresponds to what I have in the  local baz branch of the breezy seed list (I hope)
[07:12] <zyga> elvirolo: if not - then releasing another version is good anyway, it fixes lots of other bugs and brings new features
[07:12] <elvirolo> it's not the right time
[07:12] <Kamion> janimo: ok, great. sorry I haven't got back to you yet, it's just a nightmare week
[07:12] <janimo> Kamion, np
[07:12] <Kamion> you seem to be keeping up by yourself for the moment :-)
[07:12] <janimo> yes, but I guess I am too late in the game for breezy :(
[07:13] <Kamion> janimo: your universe change will go in
[07:13] <ogra> janimo, what i saw yesterday was really ok... 
[07:13] <dieman> so with this reboot requried information in the info applet, is there any way to glean this information from scripts? (ie: some sort of reboot advised flag?)
[07:13] <Kamion> janimo: we can see what's doable w.r.t. CD builds later
[07:13] <Kamion> janimo: note that cdimage is maxed out on the number of derivatives I can support on it, but I'm happy to help you set up CD builds elsewhere later on
[07:14] <janimo> Kamion, thanks, but the packages are not in the polished state I'd like either
[07:14] <fabbione> janimo: it's still a very good start for dapper..
[07:14] <janimo> ogra, I was planning integration with a volume manager, display mgr etc
[07:14] <janimo> fabbione, thanks
[07:15] <ogra> janimo, yes, but its a goot first timer to build on... 
[07:15] <fabbione> janimo: so don't be too upset.. you have time to fix stuff around
[07:15] <ogra> *good
[07:15] <janimo> these two past weeks I was working all day but it's too much new stuff for me I guess
[07:16] <ogra> janimo, edubuntu has probably 70% of the stuff i wanted in... it will get released and attract people to help improve it in dapper... to get more helpinghands, you muist have something to present ;)
[07:16] <Kamion> mdz: install CDs published; I'll work through the other jobs as time progresses this evening
[07:17] <dieman> n/m figured out whats there
[07:17] <mdz> Kamion: shortest job first, please
[07:17] <janimo> ogra, yes I guess :)
[07:17] <mdz> Kamion: perhaps for dapper we can work out a sane way to do parallel CD builds
[07:18] <mdz> the build cycle has become incredibly long
[07:18] <Kamion> it ought to be doable, it's just a matter of making sure nothing overlaps
[07:18] <fabbione> or spread it across more machines
[07:18] <infinity> Is there a reason we can't do CD builds from the buildds like we do with livefs builds?
[07:19] <Kamion> infinity: LP will do it that way, AFAIK; rejigging it to happen before that is WAB
[07:19] <infinity> (other than debian-cd currently still requiring a local on-disk mirror, afaik?)
[07:19] <infinity> Kamion : Ahh.  Right.
[07:19] <Kamion> infinity: if you're sane, you have an on-disk mirror regardless of whether you're using debian-cd or not
[07:19] <fabbione> well inside the DC local or not, the access is fast enough not to show much difference imho
[07:20] <Kamion> CD building is already reasonably careful to use different paths for different projects; install and live builds currently overlap
[07:20] <infinity> Sure, but having an on-disk ftproot on every buildd is a lot of rsync traffic all over, and a lot of extra disk space required.
[07:20] <Kamion> fabbione: it's not happening pre-LP, no way
[07:20] <infinity> Anyhow, off-topic, carry on with your releasing.
[07:20] <Kamion> fabbione: I think we did the sums and found out it would add an appreciable amount of time (20 minutes or so) to every CD build even at max bandwidth
[07:20] <Kamion> but, later
[07:20] <infinity> I need to get some sleep.  I'll have another test cycle in the morning, I assume.
[07:21] <fabbione> infinity: good night
[07:21] <dholbach> re
[07:21] <dholbach> night infinity
[07:21] <jbailey> The ppc64 livecd works better than my current install, apparently. =)
[07:21] <mvo> night infinity 
[07:21] <infinity> Kamion : 20 mins added to each CD build when they're all done in parallel seems a win.
[07:21] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, that's right, but losing 20 minutes.. as infinity said..
[07:21] <Kamion> infinity: doing them all in parallel without the extra 20 minutes seems like a bigger win
[07:21] <infinity> True dat. :)
[07:22] <jbailey> The only things off were that the keyboard map it detected was wrong jp102 instead of US, so it had the @ in the wrong place, and the CD didn't eject at the end
[07:22] <jbailey> Aside from that, it has sound from a kernel that I thought had no sound driver for it. =)
[07:22] <fabbione> jbailey: eheheh
[07:22] <Kamion> mdz: so basically, I can probably make it use a per-project lock easily enough, so that you can do ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu/ubuntu-server builds in parallel; since it's all I/O bound, that should be a nice speedup
[07:23] <mdz> Kamion: multiple CD build machines might be useful too
[07:24] <mdz> Kamion: though we'd need to consider how to ensure archive consistency
[07:24] <mdz> Kamion: what was the ia32-libs problem while I was away?
[07:26] <Kamion> mdz: libdb4.2 was missing, which openoffice.org2 needed to start the help browser
[07:26] <doko> mdz: missing libdb4.2
[07:26] <janimo> Kamion: you wrote earlier but just saw now "janimo: your universe change will go in". You mean xubuntu-related changes in uni after todays release?
[07:26] <mdz> doko: I could see that much from the changelog :-P
[07:26] <Kamion> janimo: not after the release, no
[07:26] <janimo> ok
[07:26] <Kamion> janimo: I meant the xubuntu-meta upload you made today
[07:27] <janimo> I see
[07:27] <Kamion> (openoffice.org2-core Depends: libdb4.2)
[07:27] <Kamion> we should have an automated way to check this, if multiarch is still some way off
[07:27] <mdz> yes
[07:28] <mdz> of course, this is really just fallout from bringing back oo.o2-help at the last minute
[07:28] <Kamion> right
[07:28] <mdz> which we won't (need to) do again
[07:28] <Kamion> yeah, but I wouldn't like to bet money on oo.o2's dependencies never changing again
[07:29] <janimo> ogra, btw xscreensaver was already in upstream xfce-session so change needed :) .Just need to start with startxfce4 instead of startx
[07:29] <ogra> janimo, yup...
[07:29] <janimo> so _no_ change needed
[07:30] <doko> mdz, Kamion: native builds look better for 2.0, maybe it's worth to evaluate these for dapper
[07:30] <ogra> as long as it runs and you can click the lock icon its fine :)
[07:30] <mdz> doko: definitely
[07:30] <Kamion> doko: oh god yes
[07:30] <janimo> how long till universe closes?
[07:30] <Kamion> janimo: answering that encourages people to race the deadline
[07:31] <janimo> :)
[07:31] <Kamion> finish off, assume it's closing RSN
[07:31] <sistpoty> Kamion: will morgues be possible after the deadline?
[07:31] <ogra> janimo, i'd guess during the day tomorrow ... based on hoary experience
[07:31] <Kamion> sistpoty: after the deadline, breezy will become untouchable, so no
[07:31] <sistpoty> k, thx
[07:31] <ogra> but breezy isnt hoary, so who knows :)
[07:31] <Kamion> and it's "removals", sheesh. "morgue" is a noun :P
[07:32] <sistpoty> sorry, no native speaker ;)
[07:32] <mjg59> elmo: Do you know what time jdub left?
[07:32] <doko> elmo: is there still to remove zope(2.6) from breezy?
[07:32] <elmo> mjg59: dunno, if he has - I think he detoured via sabdfl's
[07:33] <mjg59> Crap. Do you have a phone number for him?
[07:36] <Kamion> Riddell: final-candidate kubuntu daily-live build published
[07:37] <Riddell> Kamion: what's the difference?
[07:38] <Kamion> Riddell: updated acpi-support, ia32-libs
[07:38] <Kamion> Riddell: fixed memtest boot option on CDs
[07:39] <Riddell> Kamion: is there a new install CD coming?
[07:39] <fabbione> it's already out
[07:39] <Kamion> fabbione: no
[07:39] <fabbione> oh sorry
[07:39] <fabbione> Kubuntu
[07:39] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, it's been building for the last few minutes
[07:39] <fabbione> never mind
[07:40] <Riddell> Kamion: ok.  and DVDs coming today?
[07:40] <Kamion> Riddell: later, but yes
[07:40] <Kamion> (don't know exactly how much later yet, before you ask ... I expect it to be a long night)
[07:40] <Riddell> ok :)
[07:41] <dieman> dieman@runabout:~$ ./machine-needs-reboot
[07:41] <dieman> 1
[07:41] <dieman> ok, that was simple enough
[07:50] <Kamion> Riddell: oh bugger, I forgot to rebuild the live filesystems :-(
[07:51] <Kamion> Riddell: don't spend too much time on that, I'll do another build later
[07:51] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[07:51] <Kamion> sorry about that, entirely my fault; kubuntu live filesystem builds running now
[07:52] <zyga> Kamion: to build that faster you can use another boxes on your lan 
[07:53] <Kamion> zyga: I have no particular interest in keeping multiple cdimage build machines perfectly in sync pre-LP
[07:53] <zyga> Kamion: all you need is one process running on all those LAN boxes
[07:53] <zyga> Kamion: create_compressed_fs -l
[07:54] <Kamion> zyga: I do not control the buildds that do this
[07:54] <Kamion> I just trigger them remotely
[07:54] <zyga> ah
[07:54] <Kamion> zyga: and it's going to be about the live filesystem build time before cdimage is free to do the actual CD build anyway; there's no need to optimise stuff that is not on the critical path
[07:55] <zyga> building DVDs without this is a real pain unless you've got 8Gs of ram
[07:57] <mvo> Kamion: but the install/20051012.2 is fine (I'm testing it now)?
[07:58] <mdz> i386, powerpc and amd64 installs all in progress here
[07:58] <Kamion> mvo: yes, that's candidate
[08:04] <Keybuk> 20051012.2 downloading ...
[08:04] <fabbione> i386 install in phase 1, burning live i386
[08:05] <fabbione> given no uploads netinstall is still good
[08:07] <mdz> please update BreezyTestPlan for the latest  build when you test
[08:10] <fabbione> Riddell: ping?
[08:12] <slomo> elmo: please sync gpass from debian/unstable :)
[08:13] <Riddell> fabbione: hi
[08:14] <fabbione> Riddell: it looks like that "login manager" in Kubuntu control panel doesn't work. it asks to push the Administration mode button, you click, you get prompted for a password (the right passewd) and it resets the control like if you have done nothing. You can't change the settings
[08:15] <fabbione> Riddell: there might more in that status, that was the most obvious one
[08:16] <Riddell> fabbione: that's a known problem with stikes randomly and malitiously, it's been in KDE for years but seems to happen more often when using sudo
[08:16] <mvo> mdz: update BreezyTestPlan in what way? clean from the results of older images? 
[08:17] <fabbione> Riddell: it was working before the upgrade from 3.4.2 to 3.4.3
[08:17] <mdz> mvo: replace the old entries with your new tests, or add it if there was no previous test in that cell
[08:17] <Riddell> fabbione: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/8681
[08:18] <mdz> mvo: my amd64/cd/erase install gets a PASS
[08:18] <mdz> i386 and powerpc are in stage 2
[08:18] <mvo> mdz: i386/custom partition gets a PASS here too, doing server-install now and burning cds for amd64
[08:21] <mdz> i386/custom PASS
[08:22] <mdz> Riddell: any luck with kubuntu install CDs?
[08:24] <mdz> Kamion: there doesn't appear to be any build in progress on little
[08:25] <mdz> running an ubuntu dvd build then
[08:27] <fabbione> i386/erase/standard is go
[08:28] <mvo> mdz: i386/server/custom is fine here
[08:28] <fabbione> mvo: ok i am updating the page
[08:28] <mdz> fabbione: while you're there, my powerpc/erase install is PASS
[08:29] <mdz> since it takes 4 hours to save the page each time we should batch the updates ;-)
[08:29] <fabbione> sure no problem :)
[08:29] <fabbione> ps i am also cleaning up the old tests
[08:29] <fabbione> the new live is .3 right?
[08:30] <mvo> fabbione: thanks, I clicked on "save" a moment before you wrote it :)
[08:30] <seb128> fabbione: don't clean them, let people update them rather
[08:30] <mdz> Diziet: have you tested the current build yet?
[08:30] <mdz> fabbione: seb128++, keep the old tests in case we aren't able to repeat them at least we have the old data
[08:30] <seb128> fabbione: other way you trash the issue before knowing if the new builds fix them for people who had them
[08:31] <fabbione> seb128: if we don't clean, it gets extremely messy to undestand who did test waht
[08:31] <fabbione> seb128: the new builds have only 2 bug fixes.. Release Candidate -> //
[08:31] <\sh> ok...now for the laptop testing and breezy testing
[08:31] <fabbione> and the ia32-libs
[08:31] <seb128> still, they don't hurt
[08:32] <fabbione> seb128: ok i cancelled my edits
[08:32] <seb128> thanks
[08:32] <fabbione> seb128: please add i386/CD/erase .2 is ok
[08:32] <fabbione> seb128: add also what mvo and mdz did
[08:32] <fabbione> seb128: + i386/livecd is go
[08:32] <seb128> k
[08:33] <fabbione> seb128: winfoss from .3 livecd i386 is go
[08:33] <seb128> you could as well update the wiki instead of listing here, that takes the same time
[08:33] <seb128> and that would not dup work
[08:33] <mvo> heh, the problem with the wiki is that it's so painfully slow in saving
[08:33] <seb128> and you would be sure there is not a com issue
[08:34] <seb128> anyway, updating
[08:34] <seb128> seems you are not happy to keep previous linue :)
[08:34] <fabbione> the page is too messy.. that's why i was cleaning it
[08:34] <seb128> mvo: yeah
[08:35] <mvo> how importend is the "ubuntu-server" image?
[08:35] <seb128> fabbione: easy, let's do a new table for the new set 
[08:36] <mdz> seb128: good plan
[08:38] <\sh> elmo: please sync clisp 2.35-2 from debian unstable, thx
[08:38] <Riddell> mdz: all the kubuntu CDs are working but there's a new install build just done that I'm rsyncing and new live on its way
[08:42] <mdz> Riddell: live is waiting on new livefs builds, no?
[08:43] <Riddell> mdz: yes, I believe so
[08:43] <mdz> there was nothing building on little, so I did an ubuntu dvd build
[08:43] <mdz> once that's finished, kubuntu live should be ready to build
[08:43] <sistpoty> Riddell: after today's update, kmail lacks of opengpg... says s.th. about gpgme being compiled w.o. opengpg support. my fault or a bug?
[08:43] <Kamion> mdz: sigh, the command I typed into shell history was ignored when control returned to the shell
[08:44] <Riddell> sistpoty: a bug
[08:44] <Kamion> I'm keeping a list of what's done, I'll take it from here
[08:44] <sistpoty> Riddell: already known or should i file one
[08:44] <Riddell> sistpoty: known, I don't think a bug has been filed though
[08:45] <\sh> ok..step 1 in installation went without problems 
[08:45] <sistpoty> Riddell: as in "go ahead file a bug report" or "don't mind, this is being cared for"
[08:45] <sistpoty> ;)
[08:45] <seb128> wiki updated, I'm away a few min for dinner
[08:45] <Riddell> sistpoty: go ahead please
[08:45] <sistpoty> Riddell: will do, thx
[08:45] <mvo> seb128: bon appetite
[08:46] <Kamion> mdz: I'll do edubuntu daily next, since that's more out of date
[08:49] <jkrogh> About #17636 .. where can I find older Breezy kernel-packages to test with, so I can find the last "usable" kernel? 
[08:50] <dholbach> jkrogh: you ask that for the 3rd time now, it's not the appropriate place, try in #ubuntu
[08:51] <jkrogh> Ok, I just thought it was a development issue that the current kernel wont boot on the hardware, that's why I ask here. 
[08:52] <sistpoty> Riddell: one last question to gpgme-bug, what package? libgpgme11?
[08:57] <mdz> who tested a server install with 20051012.2?
[08:58] <mdz> it has my name in the table, but I didn't test that case
[08:58] <mdz> ah, mvo
[08:59] <mvo> mdz: yes, that was me
[08:59] <mdz> fixed
[08:59] <mvo> mdz: are you editing right now? live/i386 is fine here too
[08:59] <mdz> jbailey: what was the result of your ppc64 test?
[08:59] <mdz> mvo: just saved
[08:59] <mvo> mdz: ok, I'm editing now
[09:00] <fabbione> i386/liveCD/good on 2nd machine
[09:00] <mdz> mvo: I think I got the lock
[09:00] <mdz> mvo: added your test
[09:00] <mdz> gah, you stole the lock
[09:01] <jbailey> mdz: Work.  Keyboard misdetection in the installer (filed as a bug), and the CD didn't eject at the end of the live test.
[09:01] <mvo> mdz: sorry, I'll keep my fingers off it now
[09:01] <jbailey> I'm just rsync'ing up new images.
[09:01] <mdz> jbailey: how long did you wait for the eject?  sometimes it takes a long time on powerpc for some reason
[09:01] <mdz> jbailey: oh, you were testing the old build?
[09:02] <mdz> jbailey: when you test the new build, update BreezyTestPlan please
[09:02] <jbailey> Right, it was from my nightly last night 20051012
[09:02] <jbailey> I just saw that BreezyTestPlan has a new table. =)
[09:03] <Riddell> sistpoty: kontact
[09:03] <Riddell> or kmail
[09:03] <sistpoty> Riddell: thx... will do
[09:03] <Riddell> thanks
[09:05] <ogra> mdz, if you have some spare ressources free, i think a edubuntu build is needed too for acpi-support changes...
[09:06] <ogra> otherwise the current iso is fine...
[09:07] <sistpoty> Riddell: FYI, i just found out that 17546 is already adressing this ;)
[09:08] <\sh> hmmm...
[09:11] <mdz> ogra: Kamion is driving the builds
[09:11] <mdz> ogra: <Kamion> mdz: I'll do edubuntu daily next, since that's more out of date
[09:11] <ogra> mdz, ok...
[09:12] <ogra> ah, fine...
[09:12] <ogra> i dont expect any regression though
[09:14] <mdz> ubuntu dvds are almost ready
[09:14] <mdz> ogra: we are not testing for expected regressions, only for unexpected ones :-)
[09:14] <ogra> hehe
[09:15] <ogra> mdz, if you catch them all in ubuntu and i know all my edubuntu specific issues, whats left  ? 
[09:15] <mdz> ogra: installation and live CD testing
[09:15] <Kamion> random weird shit
[09:15] <fabbione> ogra: moon rays hitting little while building CD
[09:15] <ogra> i just wanted to say no need to put me on high priority with edubuntu :)
[09:16] <Kamion> we rather hope nothing will go wrong with any of these builds
[09:16] <mdz> edubuntu needs to be tested in order to release on time
[09:16] <ogra> yes, but i cant chage contents, so worst case i'll have a new build if its littles fault
[09:16] <Kamion> ogra: still needs to happen sooner rather than later
[09:16] <ogra> mdz, sure thats what i'm doing over here... beside fixing merged wikipages
[09:17] <apokryphos> a lot of people have been asking if there's an exact time of breezy release so they can organise/arrange events accordingly; is there one?
[09:17] <mdz> apokryphos: no, there isn't
[09:17] <apokryphos> ok thanks
[09:18] <mdz> apokryphos: we could set one late in the day, but I prefer to release as soon as we're satisfied with it, rather than hold it until a scheduled release time
[09:18] <apokryphos> definitely; keep them on their toes 8)
[09:21] <mdz> DVD candidates mirroring now
[09:21] <mdz> Kamion: little is all yours
[09:22] <Kamion> ok, let me queue up a batch of stuff
[09:23] <Kamion> cdimage@little:~$ for-project edubuntu cron.daily; for-project kubuntu cron.daily-live; for-project ubuntu-server cron.daily; for-project kubuntu cron.dvd; for-project edubuntu cron.dvd
[09:23] <Kamion> that should keep her busy for a while
[09:24] <Kamion> after that it's just non-release stuff like ports and livecd-base left from the crontab
[09:34] <mdz> ubuntu DVDs are up; get 'em while they're hot
[09:34] <mdz> latest candidate 20051012
[09:35] <Lathiat> i would if it wouldnt eat half my months quota :\
[09:35] <LaserJock> elmo, I would like to request a sync of dvi2ps and wterm from Debian (allowed by \sh)
[09:38] <\sh> lamont__ / infinity: could you take a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/c/clisp/1:2.35-2/clisp_1:2.35-2_20051012-2010-i386-failed.gz and tell me, why this is not happening in my pbuilder?
[09:39] <\sh> this message "Add -falign-functions=4 to CFLAGS in the Makefile." I never saw in my pbuilder...:(
[09:39] <mvo> doko: amd64 is fine, OO.o help works too now, good work!
[09:41] <mvo> dholbach: please add me to amd64-live (I see you have the lock)
[09:44] <dholbach> Kamion: memtest works nicely :)
[09:45] <seb128> mvo: first line i386 for me
[09:45] <seb128> ups
[09:45] <seb128> dholbach: 
[09:45] <dholbach> i didnt have the lock any more
[09:45] <dholbach> but i can type for all of you guys, no problem :)
[09:45] <smurf> the DVD .torrent for ppc isn't registered correctly with its tracker, and apparently nobody is seeding the bittorrent files yet ?
[09:46] <dholbach> smurf: i guess it will be done for the announce, right?
[09:46] <mvo> dholbach: thanks, amd64-live pass for me then :)
[09:47] <fabamd64live> yadadada
[09:47] <fabamd64live> can somebody update the wiki please?
[09:47] <dholbach> mvirkkil: dude, i added that already
[09:47] <fabamd64live> i need to do winfoss test on amd64
[09:47] <dholbach> hahaha :)
[09:47] <fabamd64live> amd64/live/go
[09:47] <smurf> dholbach: it might make sense to seed them before the announcement, but then I can easily pull the files directly, and do it myself ;-)
[09:48] <fabamd64live> dholbach: are you going to add it to the wiki please?
[09:48] <dholbach> yes
[09:48] <fabamd64live> thanks
[09:49] <fabamd64live> dholbach, add also the hostname ;)
[09:49] <dholbach> no :)
[09:49] <fabamd64live> ahah
[09:49] <fabamd64live> later
[09:51] <Kamion> smurf: need to ping an admin (elmo/Znarl) about that; last I checked it wasn't done automatically
[09:51] <Kamion> we'll do it once everything's built
[09:52] <elmo> Kamion: torrent should just work when you trigger it
[09:52] <elmo> that's the theory anyway, but the torrent software is complete crack
[09:53] <Kamion> oh, a while back you said it was disabled?
[09:53] <fabbione> hmmm
[09:53] <smurf> elmo: seems to be working -- the ppc DVD torrent now registered OK
[09:53] <elmo> Kamion: nah, re-enabled now
[09:53] <Kamion> hmm, Colony 5 doesn't need to be torrented any more!
[09:54] <elmo> Kamion: znarl spent a couple of days beating it into shape
[09:54] <Kamion> ah, cool, thanks
[09:54] <fabbione> dholbach: winfoss amd64 is go
[09:54] <Kamion> god, torrent.u.c is just enormously huge
[09:54] <Kamion> plz write smaller software kthxbye
[09:55] <Kamion> we might want to consider stopping torrenting the daily builds
[09:55] <Kamion> I doubt they get very much seeding
[09:55] <Kamion> can we get statistics on that?
[09:56] <ajmitch> morning all
[09:56] <dholbach> hey andrew
[09:57] <ajmitch> how's progress on going? scrollback is lookcing promising :)
[09:57] <Kamion> the bi-weekly DVDs make marginally more sense to torrent
[09:57] <bddebian> elmo: Thanks for the syncs!  Did atlas-cpp come through as NEW?
[09:57] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[10:00] <dholbach> wow... french keyboards are really crackful, i'll never install a french server again :-p
[10:00] <bddebian> heh
[10:04] <elvirolo> hey what's wrong with French keyboards :-D ?  !
[10:04] <dholbach> elvirolo: the keys are all mixed up :)
[10:05] <elvirolo> dholbach: ah... well ... yeah :-D
[10:05] <dredg> hah. german keyboards are just plain weird to use
[10:05] <dredg> really and truly bizarre things
[10:05] <dholbach> not really
[10:05] <ogra> nah...
[10:06] <ogra> if all the world would use them, we'd never have keymap problems again :)
[10:06] <ogra> and you could type , thats a big advamtage :p
[10:06] <dredg> using your logic, we should all be using my new and improved alphabet :)
[10:06] <ogra> s/m/n
[10:06] <dholbach> dredg: do you type from right to left?
[10:06] <ogra> dredg, publish it, we might condsider *g*
[10:07] <dredg> dholbach: no. there's not much difference between an irish keyboard and a uk one
[10:07] <dredg> i think the euro symbol is the sum total of the differences
[10:07] <ajmitch> heh
[10:08] <dredg> only if you spill things on it and forget to clean it :)
[10:08] <ogra> bah, i shouldnt chat with such a lack of sleep
[10:08] <ogra> lol
[10:08] <ogra> dredg, that can get very hairy...
[10:09] <dredg> speaking of irish, i must prod my girlfriend to do some translation
[10:09] <dredg> ogra: indeed :)
[10:15] <StR> Hi all
[10:15] <StR> How can I have php4 and php5 working on the same instalation?
[10:20] <\sh> I need at least one of the two buildd pros ;)
[10:22] <carstenh> StR: you will not get a answer here, try #ubuntu
[10:22] <carstenh> #ubuntu-devel is for develoment only
[10:23] <RobinhoPeixoto> when will be generated the new version of language-pack?
[10:23] <ogra> after release
[10:23] <fabbione> hno_away: ping?
[10:23] <\sh> elmo: please sync busybox , dbishell , lde from debian unstable, thx
[10:27] <StR> carstenh: well.. yes, but beacuse it is a feature that comes in breezy (the php5 thing) I thought I would find the answer here
[10:27] <carstenh> StR: see topic, so support, even with breezy
[10:27] <Keybuk> no support
[10:27] <Keybuk> :)
[10:28] <fabbione> Keybuk: sorry.. are we there yet?
[10:28] <fabbione> ;)
[10:28] <Keybuk> fabbione: with?
[10:28] <fabbione> the release..
[10:28] <fabbione> :P
[10:28] <Keybuk> how would I know?  I'm just a monkey
[10:28] <Keybuk> ook
[10:28] <RobinhoPeixoto> ogra: Already it has some day certain to leave the new version language-pack?
[10:28] <fabbione> ahha
[10:29] <fabbione> RobinhoPeixoto: no there is no ETA yet
[10:29] <fabbione> RobinhoPeixoto: we still need to release and we are overloaded doing testing right now
[10:29] <fabbione> it's really not a good time
[10:30] <dholbach> you all should do some test installs :)
[10:30] <RobinhoPeixoto> Can I generate this package?  How?
[10:31] <dholbach> of the CD
[10:31] <dholbach> s
[10:42] <Keybuk> how to make Yelp crash
[10:42] <RobinhoPeixoto> fabbione: I am testing the Ubuntu
[10:42] <dredg> Keybuk: erm... type while it's doing something?
[10:42] <dredg> move your mouse?
[10:42] <dredg> look away? look at it? 
[10:42] <Keybuk> Load it.  Click "Ubuntu 5.10 Starter Guide".  Click "Desktop" in the main window.  Click "Panel Applets".
[10:42] <fabbione> dredg: why so sofisticate? just open it
[10:43] <srbaker> hey
[10:43] <srbaker> i'm insttalling ubuntu on a Tecra M2.  should i post my experience somewhere?
[10:44] <srbaker> is there a place to post that it didn't fuck up or catch fire?
[10:44] <xhaker> you're free to post it on the wiki.ubuntu.com
[10:44] <srbaker> okay, i may do that.
[10:44] <fabbione> srbaker: or post the bugs to bugzilla and send a report to the mailing list
[10:44] <fabbione> it's more useful
[10:44] <xhaker> infact, it's good practice that you do that.. and if anything really bad happens fill some bugzilla bugs
[10:45] <xhaker> fabbione, beat me by 5 seconds
[10:45] <xhaker> lol
[10:45] <RobinhoPeixoto> I qill test
[10:45] <RobinhoPeixoto> I will test
[10:46] <xhaker> RobinhoPeixoto, brasil?
[10:46] <RobinhoPeixoto> xhaker: yes
[10:46] <xhaker> portugal here
[10:50] <juliux> is it known that it is not possible to print landscape from gnome programs e.g. gtklp, abiword, evince
[10:55] <doko> juliux: where did you get libnspr4 version 2:1.7.12-0ubuntu05.04 from?
[10:56] <seb128> jdub, robitaille: do you have the url for the ics file?
[10:56] <Nafallo> seb128: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical that one?
[10:56] <seb128> yeah
[10:56] <juliux> doko, it was on my system since i have installed hoary
[10:57] <seb128> Nafallo: I want to URL to the file, not a redirection
[10:57] <Keybuk> random thought about server installs ... does it really make sense to create a new user?  we could replace that with a "enter the root password" kind of affair
[10:57] <Nafallo> ah
[10:57] <juliux> doko, and under breezy it is a newer version
[10:58] <juliux> doko, i searched the mirror manual but i do not found any libnspr4 package
[10:59] <doko> pitti: ^^^ looks like you messup version numbers in hoary security fixes?
[10:59] <juliux> doko, and apt-get --reinstall install linspr4 also not works
[10:59] <seb128> Nafallo: you should just click on the .ics and get the webcal stuff asking if you want to put that to your calendar, atm it opens the download dialog
[10:59] <Nafallo> seb128: I just pasted the url to evo :-)
[11:00] <seb128> Nafallo: yeah, but just clicking on it would be nice :)
[11:00] <Nafallo> baah :-P
[11:00] <seb128> I want to get the website changed 
[11:01] <mvo> ping doko 
[11:01] <doko> mdz, Kamion: uploads to breezy/universe still possible? the mozilla version in hoary-security is newer than in breezy
[11:01] <doko> mvo: pong
[11:03] <mvo> doko: see /msg
[11:04] <ogra> doko, universe is still open
[11:04] <doko> ogra: thanks
[11:06] <mdz> doko: universe uploads are still possible, but mozilla is in main
[11:07] <doko> mdz: so breezy-updates ...
[11:08] <doko> juliux: download the packages by hand: "aptitude download mozilla-browser libnspr", then install them with sudo dpkg -i ...
[11:09] <doko> pitti: !
[11:09] <doko> $ dpkg --compare-versions 1.7.12-0ubuntu2 gt 1.7.12-0ubuntu05.04; echo $?
[11:09] <doko> 1
[11:09] <pitti> Hi
[11:10] <juliux> doko, thxs
[11:12] <pitti> doko: so what? that version compare looks just fine?
[11:12] <pitti> doko: oh, wait, it doesn't...
[11:13] <pitti> doko: ubuntu0.5.04 would be better...
[11:13] <pitti> but that looks like a bug in the version comparison? ubuntu2 should be newer than ubuntu0...
[11:15] <juliux> doko, thanks for your help
[11:15] <doko> pitti: no, it never was.
[11:15] <wasabi_> guess the unichrome drivers never made it in
[11:15] <wasabi_> did they?
[11:16] <robitaille> seb128,  it seems the ical redirect change every day...right now it points at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/2005/10/12/ical/all/all/
[11:16] <pitti> doko: bah; is this weird way documented somewhere?
[11:16] <pitti> doko: nm, I'll ask keybuk
[11:16] <Orborde> Is Breezy on bugzilla.ubuntu.com, I suppose?
[11:17] <robitaille> seb128,  but jdub must know more about the behind the scene stuff.... I'm only an user :)
[11:17] <doko> pitti: don't know, but I checked on a warty and woody system
[11:17] <seb128> robitaille: k, I've noticed the redirection but that's still not a direct .ics to click on
[11:17] <doko> pitti: #17579
[11:18] <Keybuk> pitti: 'sup?
[11:18] <dieman> anyone here on i2 or a reasonably fast network? want to see if this gigE card helped :)
[11:19] <Riddell> mdz, Kamion: all 6 kubuntu CDs are good
[11:20] <doko> mdz: should we add this upgrade glitch to the release notes?
[11:20] <pitti> Keybuk: why is -ubuntu05.4 newer than -ubuntu2?
[11:21] <Keybuk> because 5 > 2 ?
[11:21] <pitti> Keybuk: because 0 < 2?
[11:21] <Keybuk> at least, it is in my universe <g>
[11:21] <Keybuk> 05 is still numerically 5
[11:21] <Keybuk> sticking a 0 in front doesn't make it bigger
[11:21] <Keybuk> 000000000005 is still greater than 2
[11:21] <doko> Keybuk and pitti live in parallel universes ;-P
[11:22] <pitti> not stringwise, though
[11:22] <pitti> bah
[11:22] <ozamosi> pitti: remember that 0.10 is greater then 0.9, and then you see why
[11:22] <Keybuk> dpkg doesn't compare versions stringwise
[11:22] <doko> Keybuk: it should be octal
[11:22] <Keybuk> otherwise we'd just use strcmp
[11:22] <Keybuk> doko: go stand in the corner
[11:22] <pitti> ozamosi: that's different; 0.010 is smaller than 0.9
[11:22] <seb128> Keybuk: what version of Ubuntu do you use? The FAQ has no item "Desktop" here on a fresh install ...
[11:22] <Keybuk> pitti: not in dpkg-land
[11:22] <mdz> doko: what changes are in breezy relative to hoary-security?
[11:23] <HrdwrBob> ozamosi: greather than (sorry, pet hate)
[11:23] <Keybuk> seb128: hmm?
[11:23] <Keybuk> which FAQ?
[11:23] <pitti> you mean 0.01 is bigger than 0.9? weird
[11:23] <seb128> Keybuk: your crasher
[11:23] <Keybuk> seb128: that was me testing yelp
[11:23] <Keybuk> so 20051012.2
[11:23] <pitti> mdz: mainly building against new libraries
[11:23] <seb128> yeah, but and now that's me trying to click on the same items to get the crash
[11:23] <Keybuk> it was because I clicked Desktop while it was still loading the FAQ I think
[11:23] <seb128> and I've no "Desktop"
[11:23] <pitti> mdz: we could upload a newer version to breezy-updates if necessary
[11:24] <mdz> we could potentially allow an update to breezy as well
[11:24] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah, has always been thus
[11:24] <mdz> can someone check if the binaries are on any CDs?
[11:24] <fabbione> what pkg is that?
[11:24] <doko> mdz: libnspr4 definitely is on all cd's ...
[11:24] <Keybuk> seb128: if I load Yelp, the first thing is "Desktop" under "Help Topics"
[11:25] <Keybuk> that's what I clicked
[11:25] <Keybuk> after clicking the FAQ thing
[11:25] <mdz> doko: that is unfortunate
[11:25] <seb128> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[11:25] <mdz> elmo: can we add a katie check for this?
[11:26] <mdz> elmo: (hoary-security > breezy)
[11:26] <doko> mdz: so we learn for the testing plan :-) test-upgrades from released hoary and security-updated hoary
[11:26] <Keybuk> s/katie/soyuz/ no?
[11:26] <pitti> doko: with all installed packages, that is - mozilla is not installed by default
[11:27] <seb128> pitti: libnspr4 is
[11:27] <mdz> pitti: please prepare an upload for breezy-updates
[11:28] <mdz> I'm still waiting for DVDs to rsync; has anyone been able to  test them yet?
[11:28] <doko> mdz: already did
[11:29] <Riddell> I'll need a volunteer to test the amd64 dvd in an hour or so
[11:29] <Riddell> kubuntu one
[11:29] <mdz> doko: oh, please update BreezyTestPlan then
[11:29] <mdz> we seem to be lacking powerpc testing too
[11:29] <Unfrgiven> mdz: i tried grabbing the latest daily off the torrent last night (as per the test plan) but its stopped at 77% :(
[11:29] <Keybuk> mdz: everyone's powerpc is broken
[11:30] <mdz> mine isn't broken, it's just sick
[11:30] <Riddell> I have a powerpc if something needs testing
[11:32] <mdz> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyTestPlan
[11:33] <pitti> mdz: mozilla_1.7.12-1ubuntu1_source.changes for breezy-updates prepared
[11:33] <pitti> mdz: shall I upload now?
[11:33] <mdz> pitti: check with elmo first
[11:33] <pitti> ok
[11:34] <pitti> elmo: ok to upload a mozilla with newer version to breezy-updates?
[11:35] <jbailey> Does /current/ point to 20051012.3?  The CD seems to still say 20051012
[11:36] <mdz> jbailey: the CD doesn't include the fractional digit
[11:36] <mdz> unfortunate but true
[11:37] <jbailey> mdz: What's the best way to confirm that I've got the .3 version?
[11:37] <jbailey> ppc64 passed everything but cd eject at the end, but I want to make sure it was on the right version.
[11:37] <ajmitch> md5sum?
[11:38] <doko> somebody did ignore the lock on BreezyTestPlan
[11:38] <Kamion> jbailey: .disk/info on the CD-ROM
[11:38] <Kamion> oh, maybe not
[11:38] <Kamion> yeah, md5sum
[11:38] <Keybuk> hmm
[11:38] <Keybuk> no test sound on OEM install
[11:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: known, it's because most of GNOME isn't running
[11:38] <Keybuk> heh
[11:39] <Kamion> mdz: btw, jdub says that when he gets back from the pub he has an artwork upload to do
[11:39] <Kamion> ...
[11:39] <mdz> Kamion: very funny
[11:39] <pitti> we get dapper artwork so early? :-P
[11:40] <ogra> Kamion, oh, he took pictures in the pub ? 
[11:40] <Kamion> I think he wanted to troll about it earlier today but silbs made him stop
[11:40] <mdz> Kamion: tell him to stop by on his way through here next time for a whipping
[11:40] <Kamion> :-)
[11:40] <Keybuk> send him to Brum, I've got one
[11:41] <fabbione> ok
[11:41] <fabbione> Kamion: OEM install is still go
[11:41] <Keybuk> does the oem installer not detect the keyboard?
[11:42] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, haven't figured out how to extricate that code from cdebconf yet
[11:42] <Keybuk> shame it doesn't auto-fill in the username box either
[11:42] <Kamion> ... oh, damn, and it may not tell X about the change either
[11:42] <Kamion> whoops
[11:42] <Keybuk> interesting different in partman behaviour, btw
[11:42] <Kamion> well, there's one for the errata; I'm not banging in a dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg at this stage
[11:42] <Kamion> Keybuk: que?
[11:42] <fabbione> AH AHHHHHH
[11:43] <Keybuk> if I do an "automatic" partman, I just get the partitions it made in fstab
[11:43] <Keybuk> if I hit manual, I suddenly get every partition on every drive in fstab
[11:43] <fabbione> mdz: remember that livecd/casper problem? i can reproduce it on one of my box...
[11:43] <mdz> fabbione: no, I don't
[11:43] <fabbione> mdz: i just noticed...
[11:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: gah, that's a bug
[11:43] <fabbione> mdz: the one that you reassigned to me from kiko / minimac
[11:43] <Keybuk> I have a /media/hda1, /media/hda3, /media/hdc1, et. al. now
[11:43] <fabbione> let me find the number
[11:43] <mdz> fabbione: screaming during release prep is prohibited except for showstoppers
[11:43] <fabbione> mdz: xresprobe not detecting the resolution
[11:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: that's really sucky, but too late to fix
[11:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, it's not critical or anything
[11:44] <Keybuk> would be nice to fix for next time
[11:44] <mdz> fabbione: my poor nerves :-)
[11:44] <Kamion> definitely; I don't know where the problem would be offhand
[11:44] <mdz> fabbione: are you able to strace it etc.?
[11:44] <fabbione> mdz: i will try
[11:45] <mdz> Kamion: the DVD has a different winfoss tarball, right?
[11:45] <Kamion> mdz: no, I don't think anyone ever asked for one
[11:45] <Kamion> no IMAGE_TYPE casing in find-live-filesystem at all
[11:46] <mdz> Kamion: oh, ok. one less test case
[11:46] <wasabi_> so like, any idea how to tar some files up perserving perms and untar them preserving them, when /etc/passwd with the original uids doesn't exist?
[11:46] <Kamion> it probably *should* have
[11:46] <mdz> fabbione: are you able to test the amd64 winfoss at all?
[11:46] <fabbione> mdz: i already added it to the wiki
[11:46] <fabbione> i did it
[11:46] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, surely hno73 has a larger tarball
[11:46] <doko> well, what's up with you, second time the lock on BreezyTestPlan is ignored ...
[11:46] <mdz> fabbione: oh, just saw it. thanks.
[11:47] <fabbione> mdz: no problem :)
[11:47] <Keybuk> Kamion: also, I'm not sure, but I don't think I got an ntfs partition in fstab for automatic
[11:47] <Lathiat> wasabi_: if tar wont do it
[11:47] <Lathiat> wasabi_: one of the other tools might
[11:47] <Lathiat> cpio or whatever
[11:47] <Kamion> Keybuk: I thought I fixed that a couple of days ago
[11:47] <Keybuk> dunno, will do a reinstall to test that one specifically
[11:47] <Kamion> Keybuk: but if there's a generic problem with stuff not getting automounted by partman-auto, it would apply to ntfs the same as everything else
[11:47] <Keybuk> it's on a different drive, don't know if that makes a difference
[11:47] <fabbione> mdz: i noticed only one small detail about the winfoss implementation. The browser windows that gets autoplayed is like 50 lines too short..
[11:47] <fabbione> mdz: the rest is perfect
[11:48] <Kamion> Keybuk: if it's in manual partitioning, that's more annoying, because it worked for me
[11:48] <fabbione> it tends to cut away the bottom
[11:48] <Keybuk> it's in manual partitioning yeah
[11:48] <Keybuk> that definitely worked
[11:48] <ivoks> so, when do we open champain? :)
[11:48] <fabbione> but i definetely don't consider it a show stopper :)
[11:53] <Keybuk> Kamion: live cd doesn't seed fstab either, but that may be a feature ?
[11:54] <Kamion> Keybuk: missing feature deferred at preview time, didn't get implemented in time
[11:54] <Bicchi> Sorry to ask but at what time is the release of ubuntu?
[11:54] <Kamion> Mithrandir's got the code for dapper, I think
[11:54] <Riddell> Bicchi: sometime in the next 24 hours
[11:54] <xhaker> 00:00 i think
[11:55] <mdz> I am getting terrible throughput from cdimage
[11:55] <Kamion> xhaker: on any particular basis? :-) (wrong)
[11:55] <mdz> via rsync anyway
[11:55] <mdz> wonder if http is better
[11:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, didn't make FF.
[11:55] <pitti> mdz, elmo: btw, the prepared upload is on chinstrap:~pitti/mozilla_1.7.12-1ubuntu1_source.changes, so it it is ok, just dput it
[11:55] <xhaker> Kamion. atleast is what it says in the Fridge.. haha
[11:55] <pitti> s/so it/so if/
[11:56] <Kamion> xhaker: was just set arbitrarily I think
[11:56] <Bicchi> xhaker: yeah but 00:00 where
[11:56] <Bicchi> xhaker: UK ?
[11:57] <mdz> in fact my bandwidth everywhere seems to suck :-/
[11:57] <mdz> I seem to be capped at 1.5mbit
[11:57] <mdz> FURY
[11:58] <HrdwrBob> haha
[11:58] <HrdwrBob> welcome to australia
[11:58] <doko> mdz: are the three proposed upgrade tests too much=
[11:58] <doko> ?
[11:58] <xhaker> Bicchi i just assume everything is UTC in dev sites
[11:59] <fabbione> mdz: it's slow from here too
[11:59] <mdz> doko: should be ok, except s/hoary/breezy/, too late for more hoary CD upgrade testing ;-)
[12:00] <mdz> fabbione: that may be, but I definitely have a local problem
[12:01] <Kamion> Bicchi: don't worry about the timezone, since the given time isn't correct anyway; it will be released at some point during 2005-10-13, but no time has been set