=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:19] http://www.alistapart.com:80/articles/ambientfindability [04:20] http://www.mb.com.ph/TECH2005101246550.html [04:29] warpforge Colonel: One does not simply "migrate" to Gentoo. It's a life decision. === thechitowncubs [n=thechito@c-67-175-52-127.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:34] Hey friends [04:34] hello [04:37] hi [04:39] jsgotangco: so what's the status of release notes now? [04:40] ekkk i have to edit it further in a few minutes [04:40] ah right [04:40] i haven't checked the changes in the wiki [04:40] but after that, i'll fix the xml and bug jbailey to upload it [04:40] mostly grammar/spelling [04:40] and fabbione removed that LVM issue [04:40] yes [04:41] apparantly it was disabled in the last partman upload [04:41] no known issues at all? [04:41] partman-auto-lvm (2ubuntu8) breezy; urgency=low [04:41] . [04:41] The "Release Notes" aren't enough release. [04:41] oh there are probably a few known issues [04:41] I just don't know them :) [04:43] well like i tell them, they'll feel the wrath of bugzilla in a few days if they don't add known issues [04:43] I'll check when I do a test install on my laptop [04:44] feel free to edit the wiki page but i'd like to freeze it in a couple of hours [04:44] I won't be able to test for at least a couple of hours [04:45] well ok i'll have someone review it first..but it seems ok already as is [04:45] good thing release is soon [04:45] I'm nearly through my 10GB data quota for the month :) [04:46] download ETA is about 90minutes for daily install image [04:46] about the time I'll get home from work [04:49] jsgotangco: Talking about the release notes? [04:49] yes [04:50] jsgotangco: How is it? I should upload that in the next hour or so, I guess. [04:50] ok kamion made 1 known issue [04:50] jbailey, enough time for me to fix it [04:50] In all likelyhood, the archive will be frozen by the time I get up tomorrow so that kamion can start the CD builds. [04:50] Which issue> [04:50] 14485 [04:51] Oh, you mean with the release notes. [04:51] I thought you meant with the ubuntu-docs upload I did. [04:51] no [04:51] heh [04:51] i haven't got time to grab a daily build i don't even see the changes anymore === jsgotangco haven't even updated this laptop for 3 days [04:53] it would be nice if mdz can make a final pass on the notes before we upload [04:53] It's 10pm there, it's pretty unlikely. [04:53] err [04:53] 8pm [04:54] once he wakes up he probably won't sleep till release :) [04:54] goodie we'll all be doing an all-nighter just in case [04:55] yay [04:56] jbailey: I was meaning to ask you about certification stuff :) [04:56] ajmitch_: I know nothing. [04:56] ok [04:57] jbailey, give me an hour to finish this [04:58] jsgotangco: 'k. [04:59] hrmmm we can't add the notes anymore [04:59] no? [04:59] Eh? [04:59] mdz says its already frozen [05:00] mdz in #u-devel === ajmitch_ forgot he read that email === otep [n=paltok@AP-203.167.31.158.sysads.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenwhen [n=zenwhen@localghost.us] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:06] Burgundavia, I thought you had started doing some of the screenshots for the quicktour. I don't see any in the repo [05:07] are they all to be done? [05:07] they won't get in the disc for sure [05:07] they still should be done... [05:08] robitaille, I haven't done any === zenwhen [n=zenwhen@localghost.us] has left #ubuntu-doc ["555"] [05:09] ok. I guess I misunderstood a past email. I'll try to generate some later tonight [05:10] robitaille, likely, I am pretty tired right now [05:11] long work days? [05:11] robitaille, http://www.mb.com.ph/TECH2005101246550.html [05:12] rob_, yes [05:12] robitaille, yes [05:14] jsgotangco: Well, the nice part is at least they can stay in the wiki for now. [05:14] I wonder if there's some sane way that we can automatically export release notes from the wiki to the package. [05:14] jbailey, actually the wiki is good enough instead of shipping an inaacurate release notes [05:14] And ask them to do that as one of the last steps in freezing the archive. [05:14] True. [05:15] jsgotangco, that's a great link. I think that should go on the fridge [05:15] "If you are reading this, it means that you don't have the problem booting on an XFS partition" [05:15] hehe [05:17] Then with that in mind, I think I will go to sleep soon and wake up early for CD testing. [05:17] sleep tight [05:18] Thanks. Have a lovely day. [05:28] anyone know if the Ubuntu servers are having some sort of trouble? [05:29] Madpilot, its down for maintenance [05:29] thanks. === rob_ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Karl@ppp238-149.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [n=matt@unaffiliated/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:29] salut mdke [08:30] hi [08:30] morning [08:30] my stupid internet keeps going down [08:30] dunno if its the router or the connection [08:43] jsgotangco, what is the status with releasenotes? [08:45] we've started test pass on gold and mdz said we'll just leave it in the wiki instead of uploading it [08:46] because it will mean that the cds will be rebuilt again [08:46] mdke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes is the authoritative page [08:48] ok [08:49] so it will be released there, or on the Ubuntu website? [08:49] we'll push both for sure [08:50] we just added 2 more known issues in the wiki so there [08:50] hi [08:50] push both? [08:50] 's no reason to publish an old doc in the distro [08:50] hey rob [08:50] hi mdke [08:50] jsgotangco, agreed, but will the releasenotes be on the wiki or the website? [08:51] i said both the wiki is still not final until all the cds pass [08:52] right [08:53] so for translation purposes, the wiki page will be final and people will translate from there? [08:53] its quite safe to translate it now i'd say [08:53] ok [08:53] the only thing that would be added are known issues really [08:54] cool [09:06] http://www3.telus.net/robitaille/quicktour/quicktour.html [09:06] still not done yet...but I'm about to go to bed :) [09:06] nice [09:06] its ok we still have a day left =) [09:07] and I'm looking for ideas for a screenshot of ltsp... [09:08] robitaille: the screenshots look great [09:08] robitaille, thanks [09:09] for LTSP, could you grab a PD image of a bunch of monitors on a desk or something? [09:09] shot from the back, maybe, so nobody can tell what OS they're running? [09:09] maybe something from here [09:09] http://openclipart.org/cgi-bin/navigate/computer [09:09] anyone remember that picture of the schoolbus in Brazil wih all the Ubuntu terminals? [09:10] I think it was on planet.u.c at one point [09:10] i know a local netcafe over here that runs all their stations in hoary (around 15 heads) [09:11] robitaille: if you can track one of those Brazillian pics down that would be very cool [09:12] even if that isn't actually LTSP in operation... ;) [09:12] http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/33275644/ [09:13] excellent... [09:13] however, you need to contact whiprush for permission (shouldn't be an issue) [09:13] as the image is currently Non-comm [09:13] no deriv [09:13] Ubuntu counts as commerical, I guess? [09:14] commercial is anything for profit [09:14] can one of you talk to him? [09:14] if I sell you an ubuntu cd for one dollar, that is commercial [09:14] robitaille, just pinged him on #ubuntu-devel [09:15] erm [09:15] you can sell the CDs [09:15] yes you can, but if the cd contained non-comm stuff you couldn't [09:15] HrdwrBob: search on EBay, ppl resell the Shipit CDs there [09:16] the CDs can't contain non-commercial stuff [09:16] that's the whole point of 'free' [09:16] 'non commericial use only' is not 'free' [09:17] Debian and Wikipedia don't consider non-comm to be "free" [09:17] HrdwrBob: we know, but the guy who took the pic we want is already involved in Ubuntu, so he can give permission [09:17] yeah [09:17] I think the key difference you're looking for is 'commercial' [09:17] and 'proprietry' [09:17] nothing wrong with commercial [09:21] robitaille: for the "Coming to a language near you" screenshot, maybe you should zoom in and cut it down to just part of the list of languages on the lefthand side of that box? [09:25] Madpilot, sounds good [09:58] I'm going to bed...I'm way past my bed time...and only 2 snaphots the quicktour are now missing :) [09:59] robitaille: good stuff - Corey didn't think this would make released time! [10:00] robitaille: you still up for Thursday, here, around 7:30 (or whenever?) [10:00] Madpilot, I'm still a maybe for Thursday. Is it at the same place I went last time, or somewhere else? [10:01] same place - need directions again? [10:02] I will be fine; I still have your address. I'll let you know tomorrow if I'm coming [10:02] good. hope you can make it! === n1c0las [n=niklas@beryl.wknl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico_ [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:13] can i remove QuickTour in the release notes since its not part of the CD anymore [10:15] ok removing then =) [10:22] if someone (i was thinking me specificaly right now) finds bugs in the doco, do they have to file in bugzilla? or post to the list? or both? i asume bugzilla is required, but if its not im happy, because i hate it ;) [10:22] bugzilla [10:22] ok. thanks [10:22] file it and i'll assign it accordingly [10:23] mm. ok. ta [10:32] bloody wiki spambots [10:32] they've found the Ubuntu wiki? or are you talking about idiot humans? [10:34] no, they found my wiki [10:34] ouch. lots of reverts to do? [10:35] about 15 [10:35] looks like I got it just in time [10:35] and then security to review, I guess? [10:35] lucky the wiki isn't huge like the ubuntu one [10:35] what topic? [10:35] debian [10:36] http://www.debianguide.org [10:36] I'd have thought a Debian wiki would be a lot bigger than the Ubuntu one... [10:36] mine has been around for a while, there is a bigger one thats been around longer but it was a piece of crap [10:37] heh [10:37] they have just started an official one, so a lot of my content has been moved over [10:40] good luck with bot-hunting... [10:41] yeah I got em all now [12:11] does anyone know whats happening with help.ubuntu.com? [01:08] anyone alive? [01:08] chapter 1 section 7 [01:08] number 4 [01:08] yeah [01:08] ? [01:08] on faq [01:08] sorry [01:09] 4. IRC chat: irc.freenode.net channel ubuntu [01:09] yes [01:09] needs a # in front of ubuntu [01:09] 4. IRC chat: irc.freenode.net channel #ubuntu [01:09] yep [01:10] it must have lost it somewhere in the last few nightmare weeks [01:10] hehe [01:10] I remember it having a # at one stage :) [01:10] also I was wondering if we should recommend another cd burning software under windows [01:10] something free [01:11] no biggie though, and theres not much we can do about it [01:11] obviously too late now [01:11] most people get nero free with their burners now days [01:11] right [01:11] meh [01:11] I just picked a common app that everyone knew [01:11] It also has a Linux version, so I though "hey why not" [01:13] oh true [01:13] also for realplayer [01:13] I thought we were recomending /usr/local/bin [01:13] how come we switched [01:15] it should be /usr/local/bin rather then the non-standard /usr/bin/RealPlayer [01:15] Chapter 3. Movies and Music Section 3 [01:16] When prompted for a location to install RealPlayer 10, type /usr/bin/RealPlayer [01:16] Chapter 3, Movies and Music, Section 3 [01:16] yeh. i have a few like that on the 'check in bugzilla' list [01:16] should I just submit on bugzilla/ [01:16] ? [01:17] yeah sure [01:17] the problem being I dont have time for all of the write up [01:17] then I'll be able to fix it when I do the next rewrite [01:18] rob_: are you in charge of the faq guide? [01:18] Kamping_Kaiser, yes, I'm the maintainer of it [01:19] ah ok. i went through page by page for bugs ... so i have a few. i was wondering who was going to wind up with them :( [01:20] hehe without the ^ rob^ is unrecognizable [01:20] lol. [01:20] Some one needs to write a guide telling how to get WMV's, MOVs, and other things to play inside of Firefox [01:21] That would be extremely helpful and popular [01:21] that would be I [01:21] there are a few bugs there already, so don't forget to do a search first [01:21] mostly they will be left open until after breezy is released (tomorrow) then I will go through one by one and address them [01:21] thechitowncubs, the wiki is the best place for that [01:21] see restrictedformats and beepmediaplayer [01:21] mostly for ff plugins though use the mplayer plugin [01:22] thechitowncubs, feel free to add to the wiki :) [01:22] rob^, If I had the info I would do it [01:23] But I'm the one requesting the info [01:23] ok rob^. im hoping to get involved after breezy goes stable, so i might file them this weekend (after checking , naturaly....). because i want to get involved, im finding out who does what ;) [01:23] the plan is to get help.ubuntu.com going on the webserver, and serve a copy (updated) from there as well as maybe releasing an update to the package with the fixes [01:23] Kamping_Kaiser, have you checked out the docteam pages? [01:24] nice. i know if the packages could be updated, it would help a lot of ppl a lot [01:24] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects [01:24] rob^: yeh, im looking through all the docteam stuff [01:24] one bit at a time :) [01:24] :) === Kamping_Kaiser has a growing bookmarks list ;) [01:25] you can always start with helping out on the wiki if your not to comfortable with docbook [01:26] matt doesn't have too much to do with the faq lately, so I'm it for that one [01:26] :| ok. and yes, i saw docbook for the first time a few days ago ;) [01:27] hmm I should start messing around with docbook [01:27] also are we writing dev docs? [01:27] like things for oem installs [01:27] how to change the icons etc. [01:27] is that allowed? [01:28] yes, if someone wants to propose one [01:28] the idea was bought up a while ago I think.. but nothings happened [01:28] hmm ic [01:29] I mean wouldnt it be as simple as changing the usplash png [01:29] ? [01:29] the best way to start is to submit small patches to one of the docs in our repo to the mailing list, the userguide needs lots of love (which is why its not in Breezy) [01:29] wait I thought the faq was the userguide? [01:29] no, its a more indepth thing [01:30] hmm ic [01:30] link? [01:30] see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects [01:32] wait I remember this [01:32] didnt this come out of the 'why?' article? [01:33] sorry? [01:33] there was a lengthy article written by some guy [01:33] yeah ;) [01:33] the title was something like why or something [01:33] hehe [01:34] some guy [01:34] basically was an intro to linux/ubuntu with history and other howtos integrated [01:34] back in reality what we have is what has happen [01:34] people have big ideas but few really see them through [01:35] hehe true [01:35] UBZ might be more intresting, they plan on maybe touching on some of it there [01:35] but I doubt much will change [01:35] hmm [01:39] also are we the ones who have to handle edubuntu docs? [01:39] yes [01:39] crap [01:40] thats a lot of work [01:40] yep. it is ;) [01:40] :) [01:40] thats why there have been calls to simplify docbook [01:41] something I agree with, which will help potential contributors greatly [01:41] :) [01:42] true === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.138.169.212] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@201-27-7-139.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsg_ [n=jsg@202.138.169.212] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.138.169.212] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === rob_ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^lt [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:19] wb [03:19] hi [03:41] jsgotangco: Awake? [03:41] hi [03:41] i'm gonna crash in a few minutes though (really tired) [03:41] hi jbailey jsgotangco [03:41] np, I'll chat with you about svn layouts some other time. ;) [03:41] Heya Rob [03:42] i'll just have to test some few then logout [03:42] jbailey, were you able to solve the riddle of the entities? === p-h-i [n=phi@C59ba.c.strato-dslnet.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:43] jsgotangco: ... [03:43] right... [03:43] I thought I got all the entities in the last upload? [03:43] morning jbailey [03:43] jbailey, i haven't checked i'm installing the last build atm...it should be fixed im sure [03:44] jbailey, i meant on the svn... [03:44] Oh. [03:44] Yes. =) [03:44] I think that there are two reasonable ways to do it. [03:44] The simplest is to model the svn after the installed filesystem. [03:44] jbailey, i'd LOVE THAT [03:44] The other is to actually use Makefiles, and generate the entities based on whether you're installing or building locally. [03:45] the svn is a mess [03:45] if we can implement any of those we'll surely solve packaging issues and easily make rolling releases every milestone [03:45] rob^lt, that's the fun part [03:46] Dude, I'll be doing weekly uploads. =) [03:46] heh yep [03:46] is there a chance of getting an updated ubuntu-docs package for breezy after release? [03:46] i doubt that [03:47] we can ask it to be pushed as breezy-update i guess [03:47] my thoughts exactly [03:47] But I always want to teach the docteam that "debuild; sudo debi" is enough for doing all their testing. [03:50] ok let's add that to the agenda for next week's meeting then [03:51] 'k [03:51] what time is the meeting? [03:52] I don't know if dapper will be open next Monday. If it is, I'll do an upload anyway. [03:52] tuesday or so, we heard [03:52] gmt? [03:52] 1400 isnt it? [03:53] hm. ill find out closer to teh event i expect [03:53] jbailey, upload what? an update? [03:53] jsgotangco: Whatever is in the archive at that moment. [03:53] jsgotangco: I'll port all of the -docs stuff to the mainline and start the snapshots. [03:54] ok in my m ind we're releasing dapper [03:54] heh [03:54] jeezz [03:54] *lol* [03:55] I think it would be fun to run sed over it and replace all the "breezy" instances with "dapper" =) [03:55] lol [03:55] yeah === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.2.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:57] Guys, can I offer a suggestion? [03:57] go ahead [03:58] How about creating a "this isn't clear to me" page. And piont to it from various userdocumentation pages. So people have a place to tell us what is not clear about current docs? [03:59] hmm [03:59] bug reports covers that [03:59] HiddenWolf, in the wiki? [04:00] jsgotangco, yeah [04:00] sure...that would be a nice idea [04:00] grr the au archive has some missing packages [04:00] it might be a good metric once the page matures i guess [04:00] rob^lt, bugzilla has a bit of a high threshold [04:00] true [04:00] but it allows us to keep track and keep a history of it [04:01] rob^lt, true, but what you need is for users to give you feedback [04:01] peer review can be helpful really [04:01] if it's a choice between less than ideal, or not at all, I'd rather have the former. [04:02] A link at the bottom of a wiki page "was this helpfull and clear for you? if not, let us know" might help [04:03] well, at the moment I have a few bugs I need to address in bugzilla for the faq guide, I'm holding off until after release though [04:03] (breezy) [04:03] You're kidding me? :) [04:03] Do we have another devel release out? ;) [04:03] in a few days [04:03] heh [04:03] well there isn't much I can do about it now anyway, its too late [04:04] we'll surely be swamped with bugs in the faqguide, but hey, that's the fun part [04:04] yeh. i should do my part to swamp you actualy [04:05] yay :) [04:05] rob^, as with any idea, it's an idea, not a must have _now_ [04:05] HiddenWolf, yeah I know, just providing a different view is all [04:05] we have a good document base with the faqguide, we can build on it for sure =) [04:05] that's what makes things fun [04:06] rob^lt, I was hallucinating when I woke up this morning, and thought it up. Thought I'd share. :) [04:06] lol [04:06] yeah I do that sometimes, I wish I had a notepad next to my bed to jot some of it down [04:07] see? sleep is helpful then [04:07] I came up with a good calendar idea for my lug website, but danged if I can remember it === Kamping_Kaiser slams head against wall [04:07] ouch [04:07] why didnt i see the 'change password' bit on bugzilla before :( [04:07] i could have been bug reporting for the last 3 weeks :$ [04:07] rob^lt, learn your pc to use voice recognition, and talk in your sleep. :) [04:08] :D [04:08] I just bought a new laptop, maybe I should stick it next to my bed :) [04:09] (but then I'll be tempted to search for pron :) ) [04:09] lol. [04:09] grr looks like the au breezy repo has died [04:10] huh? ouch. i usuualy use internodes, so i havent noticed, but i was about to use the au one :( [04:10] so htats a pita [04:11] yep, I want to install airsnort on my lappy! [04:11] heh. [04:11] have to hit the masters or the US [04:12] the gb is always up to date earlier [04:12] they are tehy same servers as the master servers arnt they? [04:12] im just thinking speed wise, AU has some fat pipes to the US, but not to GB [04:12] yeah [04:13] i think that's were se starts [04:14] Yeah, that's the only way in which debian still beats us hands down. Nice, fast mirrors [04:15] thank god. back in bugzilla. time to start searching [04:15] we have mighty bandwidth actually, not just enough 3rd party mirrors yet...but that's where bittorrent and jigdo come in =) [04:15] it'll improve [04:16] pity i dont have some bandwidth to donate :( im using a plac ei works bandwidth to download the packages i need for a mirror :0 [04:17]