[12:29] <mxpxpod> nice work everyone on a sweet release
[12:30] <mxpxpod> I installed fresh today and it was great
[12:50] <TMM> hey all!
[12:51] <TMM> I've got a question, it appears that there is a bug in compaq laptop biosses that put the critical(S5) temperature and the passive temperature both at 73 degrees
[12:51] <TMM> this is rather stupid, and has some rather undesirable side-effects
[12:51] <TMM> namely, the laptop shuts down before it gets the chance to cool :)
[12:52] <robertj> heya all. I've determined that for my sound chipset, a few alsa settings must be set to off for sound to work without headphones, what package should get the bug?
[12:52] <TMM> should I make a patch to acpi-support to decrease the passive temperature if it is found to be the same as the S5 temperature? or should I just file a bug and let someone else sort it out?
[12:54] <crimsun> robertj: alsa-base or alsa-utils, we'll punt it to the proper one
[12:55] <crimsun> robertj: keep in mind it's not possible to always set it, since your ac97 quirk may be chipset-specific
[12:55] <robertj> crimsun: it is chipset specific
[12:56] <robertj> without jack sense and headphone jack sense and line jack sense it doesn't work properly
[12:56] <crimsun> robertj: if it's chipset-specific, have you passed the appropriate ac97_quirk option (depending on your driver)?
[12:56] <crimsun> robertj: additionally, some quirks have been hard-coded into the appropriate drivers, and you can pass that model as a parameter to the driver. modinfo <your driver>
[01:00] <mpt> TMM, try reporting a bug and attaching the patch to the bug report :-)
[01:00] <TMM> mpt, I am still wondering what software should get the bug actually :)
[01:01] <TMM> mpt, acpi-support is the only bit of software that has the magic to determine the vendor, but currently has no infrastructure to do special things based on that... because, ideally, you need to poke 2 memory adresses for this laptop to get all the buttons to work 
[01:03] <lifeless> TMM: so, what you do is:
[01:03] <lifeless> TMM: write the thing to patch the memory address, and use acpi-support to trigger it
[01:06] <TMM> that's it?
[01:06] <TMM> this pretty much involves all the recent presario models bij compaq and hp's evo and presario line
[01:07] <TMM> I've got another one :)
[01:07] <lifeless> that should be all thats needed
[01:07] <lifeless> and acpi-support, when you look at it, depends on a bunch of packages, but doesn't have the actual per-platform hacks in it itself.
[01:07] <lifeless> it would be really good to fix those models :)
[01:08] <TMM> there is also a light next to the 'mute' button for sound, that, with the poking of the correct address will either turn on or off, I figured it out, but it would require wrapper scripts for the mute button handler in gnome... would such a thing be acceptable?
[01:08] <TMM> lifeless, actually, acpi-support includes quite a lot of scripts and other goodies
[01:09] <lifeless> scripts yes.
[01:10] <lifeless> but all they do is determine what features, and what things from other packages, to run
[01:11] <TMM> ok
[01:12] <TMM> so what about the mute light? :)
[01:12] <lifeless> anyway, however you do it, I'm positive mjg59 will love you for a patch
[01:12] <lifeless> he can tweak it to be 'right' later :)
[01:12] <lifeless> for the mute light, I suspect a kernel patch is the 'right way' but.. file a bug with the info you have, and/or chat with mjg59
[01:13] <lifeless> hes teh acpi king
[01:13] <TMM> ok, I'll make 2 patches then, one for insane temperature triggers(that is not compaq specific imgo), one to enable the buttons for the compaq
[01:13] <TMM> lifeless, hard to do, the kernel doesn't really need or want to know the mute-state of the soundcard :)
[01:14] <TMM> lifeless, although, I suppose I could work it into a soundcard drivers, but the button has nothing to do with soundcards, from a technical point of view, I'd have to add that code to all the soundcards that are in the different laptops that have this weird button
[01:15] <lifeless> not as a soundcard button
[01:15] <lifeless> just as an event 
[01:15] <lifeless> oh, I misread
[01:15] <lifeless> so you can turn the light on or off, but it is not a button ?
[01:15] <TMM> the button and the light AND the soundcard don't have anything incommon
[01:15] <TMM> the light is next to the button
[01:16] <TMM> but you need to trigger the state of the light manually
[01:16] <TMM> it's a stupid setup
[01:16] <TMM> but, hey, here it is! :)
[01:17] <lifeless> right
[01:17] <lifeless> so its just a visual that is labelled 'muted'
[01:17] <TMM> basically, yeah
[01:17] <lifeless> mmm, so, probably a driver patch to allow setting it
[01:17] <TMM> in what? :)
[01:17] <lifeless> and then whatever for gnome to set that thing if present
[01:17] <lifeless> hardware is usually kernel :)
[01:18] <lifeless> can you tell that the light is there  ?
[01:18] <TMM> there is rather a lot of kernel
[01:18] <TMM> no, you can't tell that the light is there
[01:18] <lifeless> bugger
[01:18] <TMM> you can't probe for it or anything
[01:18] <lifeless> makes it kinda hard.
[01:18] <TMM> I know :)
[01:18] <TMM> I know roughly what laptops have it based on their type#'s
[01:18] <lifeless> so , I think you definately need to talk this through with mjg59 - I suggest filing bugs for each thing, with as much info as possible.
[01:19] <TMM> I have 3 laptops here that have the light, all 3 with different soundcards
[01:19] <TMM> all three compaq
[01:19] <TMM> 'sound chip' is a better term probably :)
[01:19] <TMM> I have code to set the light that works on all three, I have code to enable the extra buttons 
[01:19] <TMM> I just don't have a place to stick it :)
[01:20] <TMM> well, I have a place I could 'stick it up to' but that's hardly productive :)
[01:26] <TMM> lifeless, I'll dick around a bit, I'll figure something out
[01:26] <mdz> TMM: mjg59 is our laptop guru, but if he has any sense he's attending the release party right now ;-)
[01:26] <mdz> he would be the one to talk to about it
[01:27] <TMM> I'll go do that
[01:27] <TMM> I hope he's having a couple of drinks :)
[01:27] <TMM> I see a lot of the regulars are idling now, so I hope everyone is getting nice and drunk :)
[01:28] <Keybuk> knowing mjg59 he's having a couple of bottles of drink
[01:28] <mdz> Keybuk: I would see to it personally, but being on the other side of the planet etc...
[01:28] <mdz> Keybuk: why aren't you there?
[01:28] <Keybuk> wasn't invited
[01:28] <Keybuk> and didn't find out anything about where it was until late this evening when it was too late to get there
[01:29] <mdz> puh-leeze, you're implicitly invited
[01:29] <mdz> it did sound like rather a last-minute affair
[01:31] <Keybuk> yeah
[01:31] <mdz> I think mark just went wherever the wiki said there was a party
[01:32] <TMM> mark has a chopper :)
[01:32] <TMM> that helps in those cases :)
[01:32] <ProN00b> sorry to tell you, but you suck for forcing users to have gcj !!!!!!
[01:33] <TMM> who?
[01:33] <ProN00b> the one whos responsible for it
[01:33] <mdz> ProN00b: first, the code of conduct applies in this channel
[01:33] <mdz> ProN00b: second, openoffice.org are the ones responsible
[01:33] <deb_user_ba> Hi!!
[01:33] <ProN00b> i don't care, i am not a dev anyway
[01:34] <mdz> that makes no difference
[01:34] <ProN00b> openoffice needs it ?
[01:34] <ProN00b> whee
[01:34] <ProN00b> but why does it have a java binary *_*
[01:34] <ProN00b> thats just strange
[01:34] <TMM> ProN00b, the alternative would have been to depend on sun's closed source javaVM, your choice 
[01:34] <TMM> ProN00b, :)
[01:35] <ProN00b> i will download it
[01:36] <ProN00b> still can't you somehow hide that java binary from console
[01:36] <ProN00b> rename it or something ?
[01:36] <TMM> ProN00b, yeah, but openoffice will work without it, isn't that a good thing? plus, using gcj is a hell of a lot faster than vm stuff
[01:37] <ProN00b> nothing against gcj in general, i actually like the idea, but i need to run my jar's and i think there might be some fuckup having two java binaries on the system
[01:38] <daniels> ProN00b: dude, if you can't be polite and respectful (as well as remain on-topic -- this is more of an #ubuntu question/rant), please leave
[01:41] <ProN00b> i rather fell this is a development issue, as having a working (as in running sun javavm made for packages) java is quite important to some people  
[01:42] <xTina> ProN00b: install a package with your proprietary jvm of choice that supports /etc/alternatives, and then use update-alternatives to make it defaut. that's exactly what update-alternatives is for.
[01:43] <HiddenWolf> daniels, that's way too polite. :)
[01:43] <ProN00b> whats that strange alternatives stuff, i have never heard of it
[01:44] <HiddenWolf> ProN00b, openoffice is sponsored by sun, sun develops java, at least openoffice.org2-base is disfunctional without java, and many other options in -writer and -calc also
[01:44] <daniels> ProN00b: at this point, I'm pretty sure it's ceased to be anything to do with development.
[01:44] <HiddenWolf> ProN00b, we can't ship javaVM, so we use gcj
[01:44] <HiddenWolf> ProN00b, and you're trolling, and voilating the code of conduct.
[01:44] <xTina> ProN00b: I second daniels, please take this discussion to #ubuntu, there you can learn more about update-alternatives.
[01:45] <HiddenWolf> ProN00b, ubotu Ubuntu is an African concept of "humanity towards others".  The code of conduct is at: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct
[01:47] <TMM> daniels, to his credit, he stopped being impolite and disrespectful a while ago
[01:48] <HiddenWolf> TMM, he shouldn't have started in the first place
[01:48] <TMM> HiddenWolf, true
[01:48] <TMM> but it's also wrong to bash someone for something he stopped doing :)
[01:48] <HiddenWolf> TMM, "you give me a free OS which works out of the box, but you suck, because it's not exactly how I like it!, Die" 
[01:49] <daniels> TMM: right, but -devel isn't for answering what update-alternatives is.
[01:49] <HiddenWolf> daniels, true, that. :)
[01:49] <TMM> daniels, no, you are right
[01:49] <TMM> well, I'll just shut up now, I was having a nice converation on intercal in #ubuntu-nl
[01:49] <HiddenWolf> TMM, but really, if you voilate the coc, you lose credit. :)
[01:50] <TMM> HiddenWolf, obviously, but violating it yourself to tell it to someone in an unpleasant way isn't the way to go either
[01:50] <TMM> "You will stop making war, even if I have to kill each and every last one of you"
[01:50] <TMM> something like that
[01:50] <HiddenWolf> TMM, curt, not unpleasant.
[01:51] <HiddenWolf> TMM, and let's start by porting beagle and that mono cruft to python, then we can talk about intercal. :)
[01:51] <xTina> Once you get the hang of d-i preseeding, infecting the whole world with Ubuntu is a joy :)
[01:51] <TMM> HiddenWolf, noooo, let's port it to intercal!!! :)
[01:51] <TMM> xTina, d-i preseeding?
[01:52] <HiddenWolf> xTina, nice
[01:52] <xTina> TMM: fully-automated installation just with debian-installer, a few python scripts, and cfengine2 abused as just an interpreter
[01:53] <xTina> though this server here is bugging me with its network interfaces
[01:53] <xTina> I should have checked before how it was done :(
[01:53] <TMM> xTina, I usually assimiate with a good talk and a bunch of cd's :)
[01:55] <xTina> TMM: :)
[02:23] <carstenh> 02:23:02 < strahler> o.k ich geh wieder off. carstenh und  man-di vielen dank.
[02:23] <carstenh> ECHAN sorry
[02:38] <Mez> fecking hell
[02:38] <Mez> people want backports already
[02:39] <calc> Mez: just open dapper that would work well enough ;)
[02:39] <Mez> calc :P
[02:39] <Mez> for now
[02:39] <Mez> lol
[02:43] <sivang> Mez: it's always like this :) get used to it :)
[03:14] <TMM> Mez, ARE there any backports? :) there is nothing to backport FROM... :P
[03:14] <Mez> TMM
[03:14] <Mez> my point exactly
[03:16] <Keybuk> it's just occurred to me ... I can't wait to see what the "Drake Dance" looks like
[03:16] <TMM> Mez, what did they want for backports then? or just backports in general? :)
[03:16] <Mez> keybuk: at the JD again?
[03:17] <Mez> TMM: Azureus
[03:17] <TMM> Mez, azureus is not going to come in universe or multiverse, right?
[03:17] <TMM> Mez, I'm still trying to get it to work and build with free java SDK :) or is someone else also at that?
[03:18] <Keybuk> mdz: I assume you have it all planned to the last step by now? :p
[03:24] <mdz> Keybuk: it?
[03:24] <Mez> mdz: the drake dance
[03:24] <mdz> ah
[03:24] <mdz> I have 2 more weeks to come up with something
[03:25] <Keybuk> we could all just stand around waiting
[03:25] <Keybuk> no, no, bad keybuk; cheap shot
[03:26] <Mez> lol
[03:33] <jbailey> That should be the hallowe'en costume contest.
[03:33] <jbailey> The best Dapper Duck.
[03:34] <Keybuk> are we having a ball?
[03:35] <jbailey> No idea, but if you want tickets to Rocky Horror... ;)
[03:35] <Mez> if we are, I'll bring my uniform and come as a croupier
[03:36] <jbailey> Mez: I plan to come to UBZ in costume on the 31st.  It would be nice if I weren't the only one.
[03:36] <jbailey> It wouldn't slow me down either way.
[03:36] <jbailey> =)
[03:36] <Mez> lol
[03:36] <Mez> I can do a croup easy
[03:36] <Mez> lol
[03:37] <Mez> but... costume  = PITA
[03:47] <Keybuk> jbailey: I think the last costume I wore to Rocky Horror would scare people
[03:48] <Mez> jdub, ping
[03:49] <Keybuk> Mez: almost certainly at the release party
[03:49] <Mez> lol - just wondering why the wiki is so slow
[03:49] <Mez> and where is the release party?
[03:50] <Keybuk> London somewhere
[03:50] <Mez> ah shame
[03:50] <Mez> next week and I coulda gone
[03:51] <Keybuk> there will be more than sufficient parties at UBZ
[03:51] <Mez> PackageHeadersEducationSession - lol @ Keybuk
[03:58] <Mez> when was debconf 4
[03:58] <Keybuk> 2004
[03:59] <Keybuk> May I think
[03:59] <Mez> fair enough
[03:59] <Mez> lol
[03:59] <Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/events/2004/debconf4/
[03:59] <Mez> elmo didnt like backports back then apparently
[03:59] <Mez> :D
[03:59] <Keybuk> 26th May2nd June 2004
[03:59] <Mez> http://people.debian.org/~taggart/talks/debconf4-backporting/img0.html
[03:59] <Mez> lmao
[04:01] <Keybuk> you know, I _STILL_ have chocolate left over from DC4
[04:01] <Mez> lmao
[04:01] <Mez> acutally
[04:01] <Mez> this is funny
[04:01] <Mez> http://people.debian.org/~taggart/talks/debconf4-backporting/img12.html
[04:02] <Mez> hmm... how much chocolate did you buy?
[04:05] <Keybuk> SSDS is what HP guys used to call us before we were Canonical
[04:06] <Mez> yeah I know :D
[04:06] <Mez> I just found the slide amusing
[04:09] <Keybuk> mmm, baz missing --skip-present is today's friend
[04:12] <Keybuk> so I actually have two non-merged launchpad branches -- and I swear I submitted one of them wayyy back
[04:44] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[04:46] <Keybuk> dude, you're keeping the wrong timezone
[04:47] <jdub> just got back from GLLUG + release party
[04:48] <Keybuk> any good?
[04:48] <jdub> fun
[04:48] <jdub> GLLUG was smaller than their usual crowd, but they usually meet on saturdays during the day, so this was quite odd
[04:52] <xTina> Ok, I'm desperate. It's 4:44 am, I spent the past 7 hours debugging a network problem with breezy. Are there _any_ known issues related to using 2 network interfaces on breezy, routing , receiving but not replying on icmp echo requests ... anything?
[04:56] <Keybuk> none that I know of
[04:56] <Keybuk> are both interfaces receiving and sending packages separately?
[04:56] <Keybuk> are the iptables clear?
[04:56] <Keybuk> if you're trying to forward, do you have forwarding enabled and appropriate lifting between the two?
[05:03] <xTina> Keybuk: I am not trying to forward, no iptables, both interfaces work just fine unless you are trying to send packets from subnet A to the Interface in Subnet B or from any subnet other than A to the interface in subnet A.
[05:04] <Keybuk> so it's a forwarding issue?
[05:04] <Keybuk> you're trying to accept packages on interface A and output them to interface B ?
[05:04] <xTina> Keybuk: not really
[05:04] <Keybuk> it would help greatly if you could be clear and precise about what you're trying to do
[05:06] <xTina> I want a machine to have 2 IPs, each on a separate interface in a separate subnet.
[05:06] <xTina> It worked this morning on Fedora, it doesn't work any more tonight on breezy.
[05:07] <xTina> I have a machine still working fine on Fedora with a similar setup, there is no difference except for the last 2 digits of the IP address, routing table is the same, forwarding is off on both.
[05:07] <Keybuk> right
[05:08] <xTina> The machine is not supposed to play router.
[05:08] <Keybuk> from the machine can you ping addresses on either interface?
[05:08] <xTina> yes.
[05:08] <Keybuk> so it works?
[05:08] <xTina> from the machine it works
[05:08] <xTina> to the machine, packets arrive but the machine doesn't seem to be sending anything out.
[05:08] <Keybuk> and from subnet A, can you ping the machine's interface A
[05:08] <xTina> yes
[05:08] <Keybuk> and from subnet B, can you ping the machine's interface B
[05:08] <xTina> yes
[05:09] <Keybuk> and from the machine, can you ping a machine on subnet A
[05:09] <xTina> yes
[05:09] <Keybuk> and from the machine, can you ping a machine on subnet B
[05:09] <xTina> yes
[05:09] <Keybuk> so you've just described a working machine
[05:09] <Keybuk> ...what is your problem? :p
[05:09] <xTina> that from any subnet other than A I can't ping the interface A, and from subnet A I can't ping the interface B
[05:10] <Keybuk> right
[05:10] <Keybuk> that's entirely expected behaviour!
[05:10] <xTina> which should work, did work and does work with the other machine
[05:10] <Keybuk> no, it shouldn't work
[05:10] <Keybuk> from subnet A you should not be able to ping interface B
[05:10] <Keybuk> because it's on a different subnet
[05:10] <Keybuk> if you want that to work, you need to enable IP Forwarding
[05:10] <xTina> no
[05:10] <Keybuk> think: firewall configuration -- you really don't want the kernel lifting packets between the two networks
[05:11] <Keybuk> you have to enable that
[05:11] <xTina> I am on a machine in A. If I ping the IP of the interface on B, the packets should go out to my default gw, go through * hops and then end up on interface B at some point.
[05:11] <xTina> They _do_ end up on interface B.
[05:11] <xTina> (says tcpdump)
[05:11] <Keybuk> right, now here's the interesting question ... how do you expect the packets to get back? :p
[05:11] <xTina> But the machine refuses to reply.
[05:12] <Keybuk> they have to go back out of B
[05:12] <Keybuk> but the machine's routing table will tell it to send them out of A
[05:12] <Keybuk> which requires forwarding, which is disabled by default
[05:12] <Keybuk> likewise if you ping the machine from a subnet that's not A or B, you need a default route for each interface to indicate how to get the packets back
[05:13] <Keybuk> iirc. RedHat and Fedora have always enabled forwarding by default
[05:13] <Keybuk> we choose to disable it by default for security reasons, because it's nearly always someone playing silly buggers
[05:14] <Keybuk> and you end up with horrible network configurations where your machine takes the ping on interface B but sends the reply out of A
[05:14] <Keybuk> so the incoming and outgoing packets go totally different routes
[05:14] <xTina> It's still that /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward tells me if forwarding is enabled, right?
[05:14] <Keybuk> yeah
[05:14] <xTina> it's 0 on both machines
[05:15] <xTina> the working and the non-working
[05:15] <Keybuk> ok, fedora are doing something else evil then
[05:15] <Keybuk> but that network topology you described shouldn't work
[05:15] <xTina> Keybuk: So, what about having 2 default routes?
[05:15] <xTina> Keybuk: multiple people have assured me it should be working
[05:15] <Keybuk> you're basically trying to make your machine behave as if it has two networking stacks
[05:16] <Keybuk> anyway, this is expected behaviour, so there's no bug here
[05:16] <Keybuk> there are plenty of howtos and documentation on the net for doing networking correctly
[05:17] <Keybuk> I'd especially start by learning the ip(8) tool, rather than ifconfig/route
[05:18] <xTina> I still don't understand why you think this could only work with forwarding packets.
[05:18] <xTina> The incoming packet and a response are independent to my knowledge.
[05:18] <xTina> So if I receive a packet on network interface A, nothing prevents me from sending out the response on B.
[05:18] <xTina> If the routing table says so, that is.
[05:19] <Keybuk> icmp is treated specially I think
[05:19] <Keybuk> it's been a while since I heavily played with the Linux networking stack
[05:19] <xTina> Keybuk: It's the same for SSH.
[05:19] <Keybuk> I quit working for ISPs a couple of years back, it's seriously not fun
[05:20] <xTina> ;)
[05:20] <xTina> I think I have to give up for now.
[05:20] <xTina> 8 hours in a noisy server room is taking a toll
[05:20] <Keybuk> I _think_ the responses are generated by flipping the headers around
[05:20] <Keybuk> so it deliberately replies from the IP that was ping'd
[05:21] <Keybuk> so it's already generating the reply "from B", and then trying to deliver that
[05:21] <Keybuk> which it can't do through interface A
[05:22] <xTina> Keybuk: But this implies that SSH should work.
[05:22] <Keybuk> the same may be true for TCP too
[05:23] <Keybuk> certainly I'm not surprised by the behaviour
[05:27] <Keybuk> check the values of (amongst others) conf/*/arp_filter and stuff
[05:32] <xTina> identical
[05:34] <Keybuk> what value?
[05:34] <Keybuk> certainly dig about; it's almost surely configurable behaviour -- one of the default network options may be different
[05:38] <xTina> Oh dammit. You're right
[05:38] <xTina> it's rp_filter
[05:38] <xTina> it's set to the same value on both machines
[05:38] <xTina> but turning it off makes it work on the non-working machine
[05:40] <xTina> it's probably not a good idea though :(
[05:47] <xTina> it is!
[05:47] <xTina> apparently it's only useful in combination ip forwarding turned on
[05:48] <xTina> Keybuk: thanks, i really appreciate your help
[05:48] <xTina> i thought i was going slightly nuts
[05:50] <Keybuk> :)
[06:43] <lilo> hi all.... apologies for our problems earlier
[06:43] <lilo> we're still piecing it together.... the scope of access was actually fairly limited
[06:44] <lilo> apparently it was partly social engineering and partly something else, we're still looking at the logs
[06:46] <lilo> anyway, I have a few more stops to make
[08:32] <sivang> Morning all
[08:51] <zyga> morning
[09:06] <pitti> Good morning
[09:08] <fabbione> hey pitti
[09:08] <fabbione> pitti: security pkgs for sparc are on the way
[09:08] <fabbione> breezy is done
[09:08] <fabbione> hoary is building
[09:08] <pitti> for kernels?
[09:08] <sivang> morning pitti , fabbione 
[09:08] <fabbione> nope
[09:09] <fabbione> pitti: the kernel was already done
[09:09] <fabbione> pitti: openssl/curl/wget
[09:09] <fabbione> hi sivang 
[09:09] <pitti> ah
[09:18] <hunger> Good morning
[09:19] <fabbione> hunger: what archive are you using?
[09:19] <fabbione> i get no problems here
[09:19] <fabbione> perhaps it's an out of sync mirror
[09:19] <hunger> fabbione: archive.ubuntu.com breezy-updates Release
[09:20] <fabbione> hunger: are you sure your ISP doesn't have a transparent proxy?
[09:20] <fabbione> i rsynced this morning and updated all of my machines
[09:20] <fabbione> no problem at all
[09:20] <hunger> fabbione: I am not. But I never had this problem before.
[09:20] <hunger> fabbione: I'll try a different mirror...
[09:22] <hunger> fabbione: You were right... switching protocolls to ftp helped.
[09:22] <hunger> Sorry for the noise.
[09:23] <hunger> Strange... it does work now, even after switching back to http.
[09:32] <ajmitch> evening all
[09:40] <bob2> hey ajmitch 
[09:57] <siretart> morning folks
[09:57] <ajmitch> hi siretart 
[09:58] <siretart> fabbione: I see igor stopped building. How much of universe did he managed to build? do you have an overview?
[10:11] <fabbione> siretart: we manged 90.28% of the entire archive
[10:11] <fabbione> yes.. igor is stopped becuase breezy is closed
[10:11] <fabbione> we will start building again when dapper opens
[10:11] <siretart> fabbione: whoa. thats great! that means poor old igor managed to build almost all of universe :)
[10:12] <fabbione> siretart: not really.. it did its fair share :)
[10:13] <siretart> well, there is another sparc upcoming anyway. (perhaps after ubz)
[10:13] <siretart> ;)
[10:13] <fabbione> siretart: hopefully we will get buildd's at the datacenter
[10:13] <sivang> siretart: you coming to UBZ ?
[10:13] <fabbione> not sure yet tho
[10:14] <zyga> where does UBZ take place?
[10:14] <bob2> canadia
[10:14] <siretart> sivang: yepp :)
[10:14] <siretart> fabbione: that would be even better! :)
[10:14] <zyga> bah
[10:14] <fabbione> siretart: yup
[10:15] <zyga> ubuntu in center should take place in central europe ;] 
[10:16] <sivang> zyga: there was a conf in Spain
[10:17] <zyga> spain is better than canada but I cannot turn time :)
[10:17] <zyga> I didnt know of ubuntu back then
[10:19] <Mez> though it's usually in exotic locations
[10:19] <Mez> so, skegness?
[10:19] <ajmitch> Mez: it was in oxford, iirc
[10:20] <Mez> ajmithc :P
[10:21] <ajmitch> isn't oxford exotic enough? :)
[10:23] <Mez> ajmitch: you're not from the UK are you
[10:23] <ajmitch> NZ
[10:29] <bob2> Mez: the first two-ish conferences were in england, i'd be surprised if it was back anytime soon
[10:29] <Mez> bob2 :(
[10:32] <infinity> I mean, they'r enice, large, world-class cities, but hardly "exotic".
[10:33] <infinity> Except for all the people here in Australia who talk funny.
[10:33] <sivang> bob2: ah, I thought there was only Oxford one time, where/when was the other?
[10:33] <bob2> don't be grousing on us like that, mayte
[10:33] <infinity> Don't get agro, mate.
[10:34] <sivang> bob2: do you know if spephan richter's cookbook still available on the web?
[10:35] <sivang> s/spephan/stephan/
[10:38] <Keybuk> mommy!  GtkTreeView is breaking my fragile little mind!
[10:39] <sivang> Keybuk: what's wrong?? :)
[10:40] <Keybuk> it's eeeevil
[10:40] <sivang> Keybuk: what's it doing to ya ?
[10:40] <Keybuk> just trying to learn how to use it
[10:41] <sivang> eh, you bumped into the way the model corrosponds to it? (took me some time to get that in g-s-t)
[11:01] <gilligan_> sorry to ask here but no-one from the user channel knew -- does anyone know which package includes 'alsasrc' ?
[11:02] <carstenh> .oO(use apt-file or packages.ubuntu.com?)
[11:04] <gilligan_> well packages.ubuntu.com brings no results
[11:04] <gilligan_> so that leaves me puzzled
[11:05] <bob2> that just means it's not in ubuntu
[11:05] <bob2> or wasn't when the index was last updated
[11:05] <crimsun> this belongs in #ubuntu
[11:05] <bob2> jah
[11:06] <gilligan_> yes it does.. but as no-one seemed to have any clue..
[11:06] <crimsun> I'll address that there.
[11:06] <gilligan_> plus the program ought to be in ubuntu as it is supposed to be used in the  multimedia systems selector as pipeline
[11:08] <crimsun> please migrate this to #ubuntu
[11:09] <gilligan_> ok,sorry
[11:11] <sivang> carstenh: that's nice how you did that comics style thinking ballon ;)
[11:11] <carstenh> :)
[12:42] <\sh> moin moin sabdfl :)
[12:43] <sabdfl> moin moin!
[12:43] <sabdfl> hey ogra, \sh
[12:43] <sabdfl> breezy gave me a headache, but only for today :-)
[12:44] <ogra> hey sabdfl :)
[12:44] <dmk> sabdfl, good release party then
[12:44] <sabdfl> rather
[12:44] <ogra> heh
[12:44] <\sh> ouch 
[12:44] <ogra> heh
[12:46] <ogra> **snorrr**
[12:47] <\sh> or was it the server room next door
[12:47] <dmk> quick question guys..in Launchpad there is a bug raised that is fundementally a feature request for gnomebaker. If I mark it for fix in upstream is it going to ask me for the severity so I can put enhancement? if not what should I do?
[12:48] <dmk> sorry if this seems a stupid one, just don't want to piss off upstream
[12:49] <ogra> dmk, feature requests are mostly enhancements, sounds ok ...
[12:50] <dmk> orga, cool - I just did want to click it and it to go in as a bug. wanted to make sure I could change it the enhancement
[12:50] <dmk> orga, to instead of the at the end
[12:51] <sabdfl> dmk: we do need a good way to move from a bug to a spec
[12:51] <sabdfl> i think you can link the two of them, iirc
[12:51] <sabdfl> so if there is a spec for the feature, registered in LP, you can link to it from the bug
[12:52] <Mez> morning sabdfl, did the oarty go well?
[12:52] <sabdfl> Mez... my head thinks
[12:52] <sabdfl> so
[12:52] <HiddenWolf> updates _again_?
[12:52] <infinity> You can never have enough updates.
[12:52] <dmk> sabdfl, yeah
[12:53] <HiddenWolf> infinity, I haven't really felt that Breezy is done yet, with -security updates left and right. :)
[12:53] <infinity> -security will always happen.
[12:54] <HiddenWolf> infinity, not to mention the version bumps. :D
[12:55] <infinity> Yeah, uhm.  "oops."
[12:55] <Lathiat> version bumps?
[12:55] <infinity> Lathiat : Minor embarassment where the versions for mozilla, thunderbird, and enigmail were lower in breezy than hoary-security, so upgrades wouldn't happen.
[12:55] <infinity> Go me.
[12:55] <Lathiat> oh
[12:55] <infinity> (and pitti)
[12:55] <Lathiat> how did that happen?
[12:56] <infinity> Inability to count.
[12:56] <Lathiat> lol
[12:56] <\sh> why don't I have a digicam now...this picture is so nice...a white cat in suses arms, and ogra is petting her (the cat) and the cat is closing her eyes..and is relaxing...this is really a nice picture
[12:56] <Lathiat> wow archive.u.c is up to 15K/s
[12:56] <Lathiat> woot :)
[12:57] <infinity> Yeah, I can't wait until it's back to "normal"... Should only be a few more days, I suspect.
[12:57] <infinity> And sinze we're not opening dapper until Tuesday (at the earliest), that works out well.
[12:57] <infinity> s/sinze/since/
[12:58] <infinity> See, my fab typing may have had something to do with the version issues.
[01:02] <lifeless> mjg59: ping
[01:03] <jdub> "ugh."
[01:04] <lifeless> howza
[01:04] <\sh> jdub: "ugh" or "arghl my head"?
[01:05] <jdub> a little of both
[01:05] <\sh> jdub: perfect...;)
[01:06] <ogra> hehe... all this release party victims
[01:07] <\sh> ogra: don't be loud....you're one of them *eg*
[01:08] <ogra> lol
[01:08] <\sh> and now I will have a look in the mirror and I hope I'm not scaring myself
[01:11] <sabdfl_still_diz> mjg59 just headed for the train station from y place
[01:11] <lifeless> sabdfl_still_diz: thanks
[01:11] <lifeless> still_diz ?
[01:12] <TMM> ah, is mjg59 coming here today?
[01:12] <TMM> lifeless, still need to talk to him about the laptop stuff :)
[01:14] <bob2> lifeless: "zy$", I'd assume
[01:29] <jdub> http://www.ucc.asn.au/services/ubuntu.ucc
[01:29] <jdub> ^ UBUNTU ON TAP
[01:32] <\sh> and a nice picture of a toshiba portege r200 which is working NOW OUT OF THE BOX !
[01:40] <Riddell> who can review uploads to breezy-updates?
[01:43] <Mez> lmao at ubuntu on tap
[01:44] <HiddenWolf> Riddell, more updates?!
[01:48] <Riddell> HiddenWolf: same ones, still needing review
[01:49] <HiddenWolf> Riddell, ok
[01:57] <jdub> sabdfl_still_diz, mjg59: "EBay buys VeriSign payment service division" -> heh
[01:58] <Lathiat> wow, plane ticket pricese really do vary sildly from day to day
[01:58] <Lathiat> from $377 to $690 one day to the next
[02:00] <Lathiat> jdub: talking on avahi at lca. :)
[02:00] <Lathiat> i should do a gca talk "now it actually works..." :)
[02:00] <Riddell> Lathiat: are you an avahi developer?
[02:00] <Lathiat> Riddell: yeh
[02:00] <Lathiat> Riddell: one of the original authors
[02:01] <Riddell> Lathiat: excellent, I'll come to you when I have questions about getting the KDE avahi support working :)
[02:01] <Lathiat> Riddell: cool :)
[02:01] <Lathiat> Riddell: we have qt main loop integration
[02:01] <Lathiat> and it works with kdnssd now
[02:01] <Lathiat> altho its a bit hacky, it works
[02:09] <pitti> hello
[02:09] <jdub> Lathiat: rawk
[02:09] <jdub> yo pitti
[02:09] <Lathiat> jdub: indeed
[02:15] <Riddell> Lathiat: what's hacky about the qt integration?
[02:17] <sivang> pitti: hey Martin :)
[02:19] <\sh> siretart: hey pitti
[02:19] <\sh> argl
[02:19] <\sh> shouldn't even
[02:19] <tseng> nice stir, jeff
[02:19] <jdub> hmm?
[02:20] <tseng> release process thread
[02:21] <pitti> Hi sivang! I just bought a printer :-)
[02:21] <tseng> i dont feel like telling this guy that thinks it will create "huge flak" that all of the FUD he references comes straight from Ian
[02:21] <tseng> and that no one cares
[02:21] <jdub> oh right
[02:22] <siretart> heh. hy * 
[02:22] <siretart> ;)
[02:22] <\sh> siretart: sorry...didn't want to disturb you while u r relaxing ,-)
[02:22] <siretart> hrhr
[02:22] <tseng> i guess it means i need a proper spec for approval for keeping up with mono, though
[02:24] <sivang> pitti: oh you did :) ?
[02:24] <sivang> pitti: cool, then I need to get one as well - preferbly a laser one,
[02:24] <sivang> pitti: my deskjet here is dying
[02:27] <pitti> sivang: yes, I bought a laser
[02:55] <Riddell> sabdfl_hungover: irn-bru.  best thing for it
[02:56] <sabdfl_hungover> Riddell: where do i find that?
[02:56] <Riddell> sabdfl_hungover: scotland mostly I'm afraid
[02:57] <sabdfl_hungover> it may be worth the trip
[02:59] <Lathiat> Riddell: the qt integration isnt hack
[02:59] <Lathiat> y
[02:59] <Lathiat> Riddell: the kdnssd integration is
[02:59] <Lathiat> Riddell: because it was designed around howl
[02:59] <Lathiat> and their usage model is different to ours
[03:10] <Mez> mdz: ping
[03:10] <Mez> actually.... probably elmo ping... I'm not too sure
[03:12] <Mez> either way, can someone please create the breezy-backports archive, people are enabling it, as it's commented out in default sources.list, and it's causing errors and we're geting a load of complaints
[03:55] <gilligan__> i'll dare asking a small #ubuntu question... the totem mozilla plugin does not have a seperate package ? how can I get rid of it ?
[03:57] <backports-r-us> are there any kernel folks in here?
[03:57] <backports-r-us> I'm trying to get rid of the time stamps on all the kernel messages...
[03:57] <backports-r-us> not having much luck googling or on #ubuntu
[03:58] <gilligan__> backports-r-us, what do you want to get rid of them for?
[03:58] <Mez> backports-r-us, backports are me
[03:59] <backports-r-us> gilligan__: logwatch doesn't enjoy reporting duplicates properly anymroe :)
[03:59] <backports-r-us> Mez: backup nick; logged in @ home right now
[03:59] <Mez> :P
[03:59] <backports-r-us> (too lazy to register it, too)
[04:00] <backports-r-us> Mez: but now that you've brought it up, do u have a functioning Hoary pbuilder/whatever-you-use environment?
[04:10] <infinity> backports-r-us : You have to recompile and disable CONFIG_PRINTK_TIME
[04:10] <backports-r-us> infinity: grr, it takes a recompile?
[04:11] <infinity> backports-r-us : Hrm, botting with "time=no" might work.
[04:11] <infinity> backports-r-us : Booting with "time" turns them ON, so maybe time=no turns 'em off. :)  Untested.
[04:12] <backports-r-us> infinity: LOL, good logic... will test :)
[04:12] <Mez> godamn
[04:12] <Mez> ~I realy wish i didnt have backports on a highlight
[04:13] <backports-r-us> i
[04:13] <backports-r-us> am
[04:13] <backports-r-us> annoying
[04:13] <backports-r-us> mez
[04:13] <backports-r-us> right
[04:13] <backports-r-us> now
[04:13] <backports-r-us> :)
[04:14] <jdong__> make you happier?
[04:14] <Mez> actually only when you said mez did it ding me
[04:14] <Mez> ty
[04:14] <jdong__> lol
[04:33] <ivoks> hi
[04:34] <mantiena> hi
[04:47] <TMM> mjg59, are you alive yet?
[04:47] <TMM> mjg59, still having a hangover no doubt ;)
[04:52] <moyogo> hi I'm one of the dejavu-font developers, how do i got about to update the package in breezy?
[04:52] <moyogo> should I just contact the package maintainer?
[04:54] <moyogo> oh... actually, i should just contact peter
[04:55] <jordi> moyogo: it's late to update the package in breezy
[04:55] <moyogo> jordi: for the next update then
[04:55] <jordi> yeah, for 6.04
[04:56] <moyogo> jordi: actually, could the font be installed by default? at least along with bitstream?
[04:57] <jordi> moyogo: you should discuss that with the Ubuntu Desktop guys, I think
[04:57] <moyogo> what channel?
[04:57] <jordi> I'd guess #ubuntu-desktop
[04:58] <moyogo> oh... thanks
[05:06] <jdub> moyogo: we'll ship dejavu with dapper
[05:06] <moyogo> jdub: thanks, we'll need to follow up with the updates there too, 1.14 has been out for a month, breezy only has 1.11 packaged
[05:07] <jdub> moyogo: highly unlikely that we'd update breezy
[05:07] <moyogo> no prob
[05:09] <Mez> elmo:ping
[05:34] <dieman> oh, now thats a nifty idea
[05:34] <dieman> use jabber to tell machines to update packages
[05:34] <dieman> or to install something 
[05:34] <dieman> if the machine is down, it will get the message when it starts back up.
[05:40] <Robot101> dieman: unlike e-mail how exactly...?
[05:40] <Robot101> having a jabber client with root priveledges fills me with joy
[05:43] <dieman> heh
[05:43] <dieman> theres going to be something evil with any agent implementation.
[05:47] <jdub> Robot101: wouldn't need to have root - don't be silly :)
[05:47] <Robot101> jdub: it has root privs to do something, like invoke the pkg manager
[05:48] <jdub> Robot101: the jabber client wouldn't - separate the tasks (cf. pmount)
[05:48] <Robot101> yes obviously
[05:48] <Robot101> but it's still a jabber client which can invoke at least your pkg manager as root
[05:48] <Robot101> :P
[05:49] <jdub> you can do plenty to fence that
[05:49] <jdub> it's a good idea
[05:49] <dieman> saw the idea on planet gnome
[05:49] <Robot101> I don't see how jabber is suddenly a better way to do it than e-mail
[05:49] <jdub> it's not
[05:50] <Robot101> as they say in london, please mind the crack :)
[05:50] <dieman> philip van hoof's post recently.
[05:51] <Robot101> dieman: yes, I read it too
[05:51] <dieman> ahh, ok
[05:51] <dieman> im not sure if its better yet, but i hadn't thought about it
[05:52] <dieman> i was always leaning towards using web services to communicate back to the clients -- having them check a website every so often. 
[06:17] <dieman> hah, someone finally replied to my mirrors@canonical.com email :)
[06:17] <mantiena> dieman, no :-P
[06:21] <dieman> heh
[06:21] <\sh> hmm...i just got a shock
[06:22] <dieman> at least the mirror is back down to sub 1-loads
[06:22] <dieman> instead of 30-80 
[06:22] <\sh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/elmo/+bug/3122 <- elmo crashes on startup 
[06:25] <HiddenWolf> dieman, and that's good news? :P
[06:28] <dieman> "
[06:28] <dieman> After over half a year not doing anything with Elmo I decided to admit that nothing is going to change. "
[06:29] <dieman> heh, that sounds like a dead mailer project
[06:29] <dieman> HiddenWolf: yes and no :)
[06:29] <dieman> means my fai installs at work will go fast again
[06:30] <dieman> :)
[06:30] <HiddenWolf> dieman, I'd rather have archive.u.c was swamped any day. I'm smart enough to find a mirror.
[06:30] <dieman> oh, im talking aobut the mirror at work :)
[07:00] <zyga_> hmmm
[07:00] <zyga_> elmo is a script?
[07:01] <zyga_> script/program
[07:02] <psusi> what package do you have to install to get io.h for things like open()?
[07:03] <Lathiat> you mean stdio.h ?
[07:03] <psusi> no....
[07:03] <psusi> stdio is C standard IO
[07:03] <psusi> fopen()
[07:03] <Lathiat> you said open not fopen ;p and iirc its in the same header file
[07:03] <psusi> it is?
[07:04] <psusi> it shouldn't be
[07:04] <Lathiat> apt-get install manpages-dev
[07:04] <Lathiat> man fopen
[07:04] <psusi> ahh, there's the bloody man pages
[07:04] <jdub> psusi: libc6-dev, but i recommend installing build-essential
[07:04] <psusi> I have build-essential an libc6-dev installed
[07:04] <jdub> oh, but you need the man pages
[07:04] <Lathiat> and fopen is in stdio.h im sure of it
[07:05] <jdub> libc6-dev: /usr/include/sys/io.h
[07:05] <Lathiat> ah i see
[07:05] <psusi> yes, fopen is in stdio.h, but where is open()?
[07:05] <psusi> I looked at sys/io.h and it just had stuff for IO port access, not file IO
[07:06] <Lathiat> isnt open like
[07:06] <Lathiat> an internal function
[07:06] <Lathiat> or something
[07:06] <psusi> it's a kernel system call that is wrapped by the libc library
[07:09] <psusi> strange.... the man page on open doesn't list O_BINARY
[07:12] <Yagisan> Is something wrong with the archive ? I'm getting
[07:12] <Yagisan> W: GPG error: http://192.168.1.1 breezy-updates Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[07:12] <Yagisan> on my updates now.
[07:15] <Lathiat> i saw someoen else get that too
[07:15] <Lathiat> mine are fine
[07:16] <Yagisan> Lathiat: all my boxes go to the apt-cacher machine at 192.168.1.1, which in turn uses the au.archive.ubuntu.com mirror
[07:18] <Yagisan> I am not going to upgrade my boxes if the signature fails. I checked and apt-cacher doesn't cache Release files
[07:19] <Yagisan> so unless the key was changed, I'd have the mirror checked for possible compromise
[07:20] <Mez> Yagisan, it does that sometimes
[07:20] <Lathiat> Yagisan: im updating fine
[07:20] <Lathiat> of au.archive.ubuntu.com
[07:20] <Lathiat> i figure your apt-cache is b0rked
[07:20] <Lathiat> or if your really paranoid
[07:20] <Lathiat> someone is MITMing you ;p
[07:20] <Lathiat> or your ISP has a proxy
[07:20] <Lathiat> that cached the gpg sig file or something
[07:21] <Yagisan> Lathiat: Several boxes get that (I know my isp has a hidden transparent proxy, I found it when mapping my connection)
[07:22] <Yagisan> Lathiat: It's my job to be paranoid - someone has to do it :)
[07:22] <Lathiat> your isp has probably just cached the Release.gpg file then
[07:22] <psusi> shouldn't the cachability of the file on the server be set correctly so that the proxy should go ask it to validate that the file has not changed at relatively short intervals?
[07:23] <Lathiat> shouldnt ISPs use proxys that actually pay attention to the cache settings? ;)
[07:23] <psusi> hehe
[07:24] <Treenaks> Lathiat: why would they? they're transparent!
[07:24] <psusi> they loose transparency when they fail to obey the cachability rules
[07:24] <Treenaks> psusi: not to windows people
[07:24] <Lathiat> because isps suck :)
[07:24] <psusi> the OS you are running has nothing to do with it
[07:25] <psusi> if the proxy is caching stale data, you're going to have problems
[07:26] <Yagisan> excellent - 6 updates and only one without error :-/ somethings stuffed
[07:28] <Lathiat> yeh in a windows world
[07:28] <Lathiat> transparent is 'almost opaque' :)
[07:32] <Znarl> We've got two of our master archive machines out of sync.  This is being worked on.
[07:34] <Znarl> au.archive.ubuntu.com points to archive.ubuntu.com as we don't have an Australian archive mirror yet.  (But hopefully will soon)
[07:35] <Lathiat> ah
[07:35] <Lathiat> that makes sense
[07:35] <Yagisan> Znarl: thanks. I know enough about gpg to be concerned when the sig fails. Will try again in 12 hours or so
[07:36] <Lathiat> Yagisan: basically your probably getting Releases off one server
[07:36] <Znarl> You could use security.ubuntu.com, if you're not already.
[07:36] <Lathiat> Yagisan: and Releases.gpg off the other
[07:37] <Yagisan> Znarl: already have that :)
[07:37] <Yagisan> Lathiat: seems like that is the case
[07:38] <Yagisan> Znarl: the mirror is in london isn't it (it has a horrible ping from here)
[07:38] <Znarl> Yes, in London.
[07:39] <Znarl> There's a good local mirror at http://mirror.isp.net.au/ftp/pub/ubuntu/
[07:39] <sabdfl_hungover> Znarl: has the bandwith situation calmed down?
[07:39] <Znarl> sabdfl_hungover : Yes, but our machines are still very busy.
[07:40] <sabdfl_hungover> phew
[07:40] <sabdfl_hungover> i guess we know to call for more mirror support before dapper :-)
[07:42] <Lathiat> beats 1K/s / timeouts tho
[07:42] <Lathiat> Znarl: ftp.uwa.edu.au is good too
[07:42] <Znarl> sabdfl_hungover : I've added a number of mirrors today.  Working on a Australia and New Zealand mirror right now.
[07:42] <Lathiat> and ftp.debian.pacific.net.au
[07:42] <Yagisan> perhaps next time only give to torrents to slashdot ??
[07:42] <Lathiat> Znarl: ftp.uwa.edu.au is possibly willing to be a proper AU mirror, the guy there mailed the list a while back
[07:42] <sabdfl_hungover> Znarl: cool
[07:42] <Lathiat> their on gig, and connected to the WAIX exchange in perth
[07:42] <Znarl> Lathiat : Yep, just sent him an email.
[07:43] <Lathiat> Znarl: cool
[07:43] <Lathiat> pacific is usually good too
[07:43] <Lathiat> dont touch iinet their mirror is useless
[07:44] <Yagisan> Lathiat: it could be worse, it could be tpg
[07:44] <Lathiat> haha
[07:44] <Lathiat> or dodo
[07:45] <Znarl> I remember when iinet's backbone was a 56k modem.
[07:45] <Yagisan> ha, dodo - internet that dies
[07:47] <Yagisan> how smart is apt ? if I add multiple deb lines to different servers - will it pick the best one ?
[07:48] <Lathiat> it does it based on new version and then order
[07:48] <Lathiat> it will still whinge about gpg sigs tho
[07:48] <Lathiat> so i got new stuff, but other stuff for free
[07:49] <Yagisan> Lathiat: I'm with the $50 isp, so I don't get free downloads
[07:49] <Lathiat> Yagisan: well
[07:49] <Lathiat> Yagisan: in perth we have WAIX
[07:49] <Lathiat> and most isps (except iinet really)
[07:49] <Lathiat> give you free traffic to it
[07:49] <Lathiat> you often get the same with PIPE and VIX
[07:50] <Lathiat> unless your on the cheap cheap plans
[07:50] <Lathiat> (because their already making a loss on those plans, dont want leechers on theM)
[07:50] <Yagisan> Lathiat: well, there is only one $50 1500/256 plan I can find.
[07:51] <Lathiat> 10G peak, 10G off-peak
[07:51] <Lathiat> 1500/256
[07:51] <Lathiat> free waix
[07:52] <Yagisan> Lathiat: 20G then shape, uploads not shaped (I host a unoffical repo - I got complaints when I took the box offline to upgrade to breezy)
[07:53] <Lathiat> Yagisan: so same as me
[07:53] <Lathiat> i get shaped to 96
[07:53] <Lathiat> tyhen if i do over 120%
[07:53] <Lathiat> (another 2G)
[07:53] <Lathiat> i get shaped to 33.6
[07:53] <Lathiat> no, its 72
[07:53] <infinity> No shaping here, your ISPs suck.
[07:53] <Lathiat> then 33
[07:53] <Lathiat> infinity: yes, they do
[07:53] <Lathiat> welcome to australia
[07:53] <infinity> I'm in .au, dude.
[07:54] <infinity> There are 1001 people reselling Telstra's crap service, pick one that doesn't shape.
[07:54] <infinity> (I'm using cyberone.com.au)
[07:54] <Yagisan> Lathiat: 64 flat down for me, infinity - they want more the $50 for that
[07:54] <infinity> Oh, true, I pay 90/month for unlimited unshaped usage.
[07:54] <Lathiat> i pay 70
[07:54] <Lathiat> i cant really afford anymore
[07:54] <Lathiat> 90/month for what speed?
[07:55] <Lathiat> infinity: and you are? didnt know that
[07:55] <infinity> Though I'm pondering switching to iinet, now that my exchange is almost ready for ADLS2....
[07:55] <Lathiat> infinity: eh iinet suck
[07:55] <infinity> And then I'll be stuck with limits. :/
[07:55] <Lathiat> crap quotas
[07:55] <Lathiat> no free waix
[07:55] <infinity> Stupid iinet.
[07:55] <Lathiat> and the autotrainign is crap
[07:55] <Lathiat> cus
[07:55] <infinity> Yeah, but the 12Mbps (and 1Mbps up) is tempting.
[07:55] <Lathiat> a lot of peoples line quality moves around a bit
[07:55] <Yagisan> infinity: you have to take their phone to get adsl2
[07:55] <Lathiat> so it autotrains to some speed
[07:55] <Lathiat> oh yeh
[07:55] <Lathiat> and that
[07:55] <Lathiat> and then yoru line quality drops a bit
[07:55] <Lathiat> so you get bad packet loss
[07:55] <Lathiat> you reconnect, it renegs lower
[07:55] <Lathiat> and then it'l decide later to reneg higher again
[07:55] <Lathiat> and f**k up again
[07:55] <infinity> Yagisan : I don't care, I already pay 30/month for Telstra's line, what's the difference if the 30 goes to iinet instead?
[07:55] <Lathiat> it gets quite annoying
[07:56] <infinity> (Like I really want to give Telstra money?)
[07:56] <Lathiat> infinity: hrm, most people i know pay 18.50
[07:56] <infinity> Well, I also make phone calls. :)
[07:56] <infinity> iinet's plans are much less crap than Telstra's, for call charges.
[07:56] <Lathiat> as in, 18.50 for rental
[07:56] <Lathiat> and iinet cahrge 30 for rental
[07:56] <infinity> But, yeah.  Still evaluating.
[07:56] <Lathiat> infinity: eh, voip is so m uch cheaper
[07:56] <Lathiat> or my mobile
[07:57] <infinity> iinet does voip now.
[07:57] <Lathiat> yeh its not as cheap as other voip providers but P:)
[07:57] <Yagisan> infinity: I do vo-ip, and my mobile is cheaper then telstra, I call Japan cheaper!
[07:57] <Lathiat> and you still have to pay line rental
[07:57] <Lathiat> you can get 1c/min australia-wide from siphone.com.au
[07:57] <Lathiat> and it works fine
[07:57] <infinity> Yagisan : Canada was much cheaper, but I moved, so I'm stuck with this.
[07:57] <Lathiat> i know a few people that moved it
[07:57] <Lathiat> s/moved/used
[08:00] <bddebian> Hello
[08:00] <Yagisan> G'day bddebian
[08:01] <sivang> hey bddebian 
[08:01] <sivang> what's cracking?
[08:01] <bddebian> Heya Yagisan, sivang 
[08:01] <bddebian> sivang: Not much,  you?
[08:01] <sivang> bddebian: fine, working on some BOF ideas, trying to remember all the ideas I had and outline them good enough for proposal.
[08:02] <bddebian> Nice
[08:10] <LaserJock> bddebian: do you use the web interface when making comments on Malone?
[08:11] <bddebian> LaserJock: Yep
[08:11] <LaserJock> bddebian: is there some sort of formatting guide? Or am I just dense?
[08:12] <Lathiat> formatting?
[08:12] <Lathiat> their comments ;p
[08:12] <LaserJock> well, they never come out the way I put them in
[08:12] <Lathiat> in what way
[08:12] <LaserJock> look at the bottom of https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/xfig/+bug/2066
[08:13] <LaserJock> I bulleted it with - but they came out all running together
[08:13] <bddebian> Hmm
[08:14] <LaserJock> I have yet to have a comment formatted the way it was when I was typing it, and there is no preview sooo
[08:14] <LaserJock> I think I must just retarded or something
[08:15] <bddebian> It's a comment, who cares :-)
[08:15] <LaserJock> I guess, it is just frustrating for me. Especially compared to the wiki's
[08:15] <LaserJock> ohh, well
[08:17] <sivang> siretart: what is "trac" ?
[08:17] <Lathiat> sivang: its like a mini wiki style thign with integration to svn to track a project
[08:47] <mdke> elmo, not around by any chance?
[08:51] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl.  Congrats! :-)
[08:51] <Znarl> Only Znarl right now.
[08:54] <sabdfl> thanks bddebian. still dealing with the fallout from the party :-)
[08:54] <infinity> Znarl : Talk about yourself in the third person a lot?
[08:54] <Znarl> He some times does, yes.
[08:55] <tseng> there is only zul
[08:56] <bddebian> sabdfl: Heh, nice :-)
[08:56] <bddebian> Heya tseng 
[08:56] <tseng> hi barry
[08:57] <mdke> Znarl, :)
[08:58] <mdke> Znarl, it was about planet.u.c. Jeff said (if I understood right) that he added my blog to the source but that it needed to be synched. Can you do that?
[08:59] <Mez> mdke: it does it automatically once a certain amount of time goes by
[08:59] <mdke> or perhaps I got the totally wrong end of the stick
[08:59] <mdke> jeff said something about synching with a baz archive
[08:59] <Mez> oh, maybe it has a baz archive which it syncs to and he edited you into the baz archive
[08:59] <mdke> i think that is right
[09:00] <Znarl> mdke : I can't help you.
[09:00] <mdke> Znarl, np
[09:09] <Lathiat> im having withdrawl symptoms
[09:09] <Lathiat> no updates!
[09:10] <Lathiat> i might have to do some security work to get my daily fix ;p
[09:10] <bddebian> Lathiat: Aye :-)
[09:26] <Mez> *bangs head on keyboard
[09:26] <Mez> there is something seriously f**ked up here
[09:27] <sabdfl> Mez: did you do surgery on your archive?
[09:28] <Mez> ...?
[09:28] <Mez> what do you mean sabdfl?
[09:28] <Mez> oh, you mean referring to my comment
[09:29] <Mez> no - I'm getting an error saying that I need version 2.53 or higher of autoconf, but I only have 2.59 :D
[09:29] <Mez> sabdfl: no I didnt
[09:29] <Mez> sorry
[09:29] <Mez> I'm all over the place
[09:30] <sabdfl> ah, i thought it was a reference to your earlier archive issues
[09:30] <Mez> oh.. no my archive is fine
[09:30] <Mez> it's the stuff IN the archive that isnt
[09:32] <Mez> sabdfl: just out of curiosityL do ubuntu have a sort of server farm anywhere where people can build on architectures they dont have? because I've hit a few stumbling blocks before on amd64 stuff :D and access to an amd64 machine woulda been useful
[09:33] <bddebian> Mez: Good question ;-)
[09:33] <sabdfl> Mez: no, we just have the normal buildd's
[09:33] <sabdfl> a couple of guys do have porting access to those machines
[09:34] <sabdfl> we could probably arrange access to a DMZ
[09:34] <sabdfl> put it on the tech board agenda, ok?
[09:34] <Mez> shame :D I gues sit'll have to be a "throw at buildd till sticks"
[09:34] <Mez> anyway, I'm going to lunch, Ill talk after
[09:34] <Mez> have fun, speak soon
[09:34] <tseng> hah look at the mono build logs from last april
[09:34] <tseng> total "throw at buildd till sticks" action
[09:35] <Robot101> it builds -> ship it! :)
[09:52] <Mez> sabdfl: I would do, but I wont be availble for a TB meeting till after UBZ
[09:54] <sabdfl> put it on the agenda, we can discuss it anyway
[09:55] <maswan> thank you breezy: http://stats.sunet.se/stat-q/plot-all/umea2.umea-srp,2005--41,raw,traffic-kbit
[09:55] <maswan> :)
[09:55] <sabdfl> dude
[09:55] <sabdfl> did you *peak*?
[09:55] <spayne> bddebian: ping
[09:55] <maswan> university bandwidth is neat
[09:56] <maswan> during thursday afternoon and evening, we were saturated
[09:56] <maswan> we "only" had 2Gbit/s
[09:56] <maswan> but by friday, we've had enough bandwidth and resources to satisify demand
[09:57] <bddebian> spayne: Yo?
[09:57] <spayne> bddebian: i got my key signed :)
[09:57] <bddebian> Awesome
[09:57] <spayne> bddebian: can you download and check it is good? I'm new to the whole GPG thing
[09:57] <spayne> bddebian: key ID is C137
[09:57] <maswan> Znarl: if the DC is still having bandwidth issues, feel free to point more releases iso downloads our way.
[09:57] <spayne> bddebian: key ID is C137358E
[09:59] <spayne> bddebian: how do know if it is in the strong set?
[10:00] <bddebian> gpg: searching for "C137358E" from hkp server subkeys.pgp.net
[10:00] <bddebian> gpg: key "C137358E" not found on keyserver
[10:02] <spayne> bddebian: i ran gpg --send-key C137358E and gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-key C137358E
[10:03] <LaserJock> how do you know that a key has been signed?
[10:03] <spayne> because he sent me a .sig file
[10:04] <spayne> look at http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xC137358E
[10:05] <spayne> LaserJock: is that not signed?
[10:06] <LaserJock> no, I think you are good, I just was wondering for myself
[10:07] <LaserJock> for instance mine is http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0x92742B33
[10:07] <LaserJock> obviously mine is not signes
[10:07] <LaserJock> *signed
[10:08] <spayne> why do i get this error at http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?STAT=C137358E&STATS=statistics
[10:10] <LaserJock> spayne: I am wondering what constitutes the "strong set"
[10:11] <pef> when does dapper will start ? when the mass sync from Debian will occurs ?
[10:13] <HiddenWolf> pef, under debate.
[10:14] <spayne> can anyone help me? i am new to GPG :)
[10:16] <bddebian> spayne: http://wwwkeys.ch.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xC137358E&fingerprint=on
[10:17] <spayne> bddebian: great (i think)
[10:17] <spayne> bddebian: but why didn't it apper before?
[10:21] <spayne> bddebian: ?
[10:21] <LaserJock> is anybody listed at biglumber.com as being in the strong set acceptable for key signing?
[10:22] <spayne> LaserJock: don't you need to find someone who is near you first?
[10:22] <spayne> LaserJock: and then see if they are acceptable?
[10:22] <pef> HiddenWolf: ok, thanks :)
[10:22] <HiddenWolf> pef?
[10:23] <LaserJock> well, I found 3 in my area but only 2 are listed as being in the strong set
[10:23] <spayne> LaserJock: so why are you asking then? :)
[10:24] <pef> about strongset, I can't remember the website where I can search people on this set and see where and when they travel, bigslumber or something like this
[10:24] <LaserJock> spayne: from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnsignedGpgKey "If you can find someone in your area, confirm with a current Ubuntu member that their signature is acceptable for access to Ubuntu resources"
[10:25] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what "acceptable" means
[10:25] <spayne> LaserJock: there ain't many around now
[10:25] <spayne> bddebian seems to have disappeared :(
[10:28] <mdke> LaserJock, it means you need to find someone in the strong set
[10:30] <spayne> mdke: how can i check if my key is in the strong set?
[10:31] <mdke> spayne, has any ubuntu member or developer signed your key?
[10:31] <spayne> mdke: no, a debian developer
[10:31] <spayne> mdke: he was 4 steps away from \sh
[10:31] <mdke> that is fine then afaik
[10:32] <spayne> mdke: but it is worrying me that it isn't showing up on some key servers
[10:33] <mdke> keyservers all sync with each other, so if you uploaded it somewhere usual then it will be fine
[10:35] <HiddenWolf> Backports suck, officialy. :(
[10:36] <Mez> HiddenWolf, er... why
[10:36] <HiddenWolf> Mez, lots of people for whom it breaks upgrading, apperantly.
[10:37] <Mez> yeah... firefox
[10:37] <Mez> or... the archive not being there cause.... it's not been created for FF yet
[10:38] <HiddenWolf> Mez, there is no breey backports, that's scary when upgrading for backporting noobs, but not terrible.
[10:38] <Mez> HiddenWolf, I know... and the shitty firefox thing is the only other thing that bust
[10:39] <Mez> that was reallu bad
[10:39] <Mez> and hopefully we can really get it sorted now
[10:39] <Mez> sudo apt-get clean; sudo apt-get remove firefox; sudo apt-get remove firefox
[10:39] <Mez> sudo apt-get clean; sudo apt-get remove firefox; sudo apt-get install firefox
[10:40] <HiddenWolf> throw in an apt-get update for good measure.
[10:40] <shack\out> --reinstall wasn't enough?
[10:42] <HiddenWolf> shack\out, firefox is a bit, even on straight upgrades. :P
[10:48] <spayne> hey Mez
[10:49] <Mez> hi
[10:55] <spayne> mdke: this page confuses me: http://keyserver.kjsl.com/~jharris/ka/current/C1/C137358E , can you help?
[10:59] <mdke> probably not
[11:02] <spayne> mdke: who knows all about gpg then?
[11:05] <trulux> heya
[11:22] <mpt> mjg59: ping
[11:29] <arkalon> can anyone comment on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/linux-meta/+bug/3115
[11:29] <HiddenWolf> mpt, people have been trying that all day. :)
[11:30] <mpt> heh
[11:30] <arkalon> Malone bug #3115: meta (Ubuntu) - Kernel oops when unplugging USB device Fix req. for: linux-meta (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3115
[11:35] <mjg59> mpt: Hi
[11:38] <mpt> mjg59, usplash worked in Breezy a few weeks ago, but after upgrading to 5.10 it doesn't. What information/files should I include in my bug report?
[11:41] <mjg59> mpt: What do you mean by "it doesn't"?
[11:41] <mae> Is there any talk of having some sort of delta support in apt? so updates don't suck up so much bandwidth? :)
[11:42] <mpt> mjg59, it boots in text mode and the splash never appears
[11:42] <mjg59> mpt: What are your kernel arguments, and is usplash actually installed?
[11:43] <mpt> so it's not the same as bug 14497
[11:43] <jdub> mae: there has been talk, but not a lot of design and implementation
[11:45] <mae> jdub :)
[11:46] <mpt> mjg59, usplash is installed, and I know the kernel arguments include "splash" at the end because I saw that during startup (how do I find out what the full set of arguments are?)
[11:46] <jdub> mae: definitely something we'd like to do, but may end up involving deeper packaging infrastructure changes than just "deb+delta+apt support"
[11:46] <mdke> spayne, #gnupg
[11:46] <mdke> jdub, got a moment?
[11:46] <Christophe971> well well well
[11:46] <jdub> mdke: sure
[11:46] <Christophe971> hello everybody
[11:46] <ploum> hm, I've just noticed a weird and confirmed bug in epiphany for people upgrading from hoary to breezy. (malone #3203). 
[11:47] <jdub> mdke: depends how long, i want to grab some food
[11:47] <jdub> but an actual moment is easy
[11:47] <mdke> jdub, did I understand right that for me to get onto planet.u.c elmo needs to sync something? if so, how can I tell when it is done?
[11:47] <jdub> mdke: you can tell when it's done when your blog entries appear on planet ;)
[11:48] <mdke> jdub, so I can blog now and they will appear backdated?
[11:48] <jdub> of course
[11:48] <mdke> ah cool
[11:48] <mdke> thanks a lot
[11:48] <jdub> puc is quite slow
[11:48] <jdub> not a lot of people on it atm
[11:48] <jdub> so it's not like an entry today would be off-page by tomorrow
[11:48] <mdke> sure
[11:48] <jdub> to food!
[11:48] <mdke> did you put in a request for the sync?
[11:48] <mdke> or shall I bug him?
[11:49] <jdub> there are other things in the way of it atm
[11:49] <Christophe971> i just want to know what about "ubuntu-multimedia" and other packages evoked in the devel list ?
[11:49] <jdub> you don't need to bug either of us - we know it's in the queue :)
[11:49] <ploum> jdub, just thank you for correcting me in ubuntu-desktop for dapper and not drapper. You cannot imagine how it saved my life !
[11:49] <Christophe971> we talked about "ubuntu-game-arcade" metapackage and others, will they be included in dapper ?
[11:50] <jdub> ploum: heh
[11:50] <mdke> jdub, ok sorry! I wasn't sure if it was in the queue or not
[11:50] <mdke> say no more about it :)
[11:51] <mjg59> mpt: cat /proc/cmdline
[11:53] <mpt> mjg59, root=/dev/hda1 ro quiet splash
[11:53] <Christophe971> so so so ? No one remember about this idea ?
[11:55] <ajmitch> morning all
[11:55] <mjg59> mpt: Ok. Uhm.
[11:55] <mjg59> mpt: In that case, I have no idea what's going on
[11:57] <mae> jdub, what do you think of canary?
[11:59] <Christophe971> ploum: you're following the devel list no ?