[05:02] <jabra> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/breezy-docs.html
[05:02] <jabra> a little something I wrote up
[05:02] <jabra> may be of use to someone
[05:29] <jabra> anyone have docs on install flash that works ?
[05:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> what part doesnt work?
[05:30] <jabra> uh swf doesn't load various swf's
[05:41] <robitaille> jabra,  install the package "flashplugin-nonfree"  from the multiverse repository  (if you are using Breezy)
[05:44] <jabra> multiverse? don't see that in /etc/apt/source.list?
[05:46] <jabra> nm, sorry my mistake
[05:48] <jabra> music is broke after I install it
[05:48] <jabra> damn 
[06:45] <Liz> did yelp make it back as the default help menu reader?
[06:50] <Madpilot> hi all
[06:51] <robitaille> hi Madpilot . So hows your computer?
[06:51] <Madpilot> well, I'm in Breezy now... 
[06:51] <Madpilot> after dropping down to the command line and completing the upgrade w/ apt-get...
[06:51] <Madpilot> X crashed (or something) overnight
[06:51] <Madpilot> and wouldn't come back...
[06:52] <robitaille> apt-get is the only true way to dist-upgrade a computer.  none of that fancy gui thing :)
[06:52] <Madpilot> heh
[06:52] <Liz> i do it both ways
[06:52] <Madpilot> the fancy gui thing didn't work anyway...
[06:52] <Liz> from the fancy gui :P
[06:53] <Madpilot> I've got a couple of complaints, though...
[06:53] <Madpilot> ;)
[06:53] <robitaille> I'm reinstalling the final Breezy of my laptop right now.  Then the faimily PC will get the Breezy treatment tomorrow
[06:53] <Liz> i did my upgrade this morning
[06:54] <Madpilot> Muine no longer clears to the background with "ESC", and it doesn't appear in the notification area anymore...
[06:56] <robitaille> you are missing muine-plugin-trayicon from universe is my guess
[06:57] <Madpilot> ah, OK, checking Synaptic now...
[06:58] <Madpilot> that works, thanks. why the heck did they split that out into a seperate package?
[06:59] <robitaille> don't know.  Don't use muine
[07:00] <Madpilot> wiki question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserComments <-- this is odd, not to useful, and should probably have been a forum post. Should I nuke it?
[07:02] <robitaille> yeah, I think it should go.  
[07:05] <Madpilot> will do
[07:25] <nickrud> Madpilot, the resticted format page really should be more explicit about disabling marillat, and explain why, I think
[07:25] <Madpilot> nickrud: it probably should...
[07:25] <Madpilot> do you want to edit it, or should I?
[07:32] <nickrud> Madpilot, sorry, I missed that. Take a look, will you :)
[07:36] <Madpilot> is there a way to get the wiki to produce coloured text? red, for example?
[07:36] <nickrud> no clue. I'm pretty much a newbie with wiki stuff.
[07:37] <Madpilot> I could do it in about 3 seconds with HTML/CSS, but wiki markup is such a kludge...
[07:38] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MoinMoinMarkupExamples
[07:38] <Madpilot> robitaille: why isn't that page linked to from the HelpOnEditing page?
[07:38] <robitaille> last item is about colours
[07:39] <robitaille> we have a HelpOnEditing page?
[07:39] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnEditing
[07:39] <robitaille> I'm a bit out of the loop for the wiki...
[07:39] <Madpilot> it's immutable, though
[07:39] <nickrud> it's moinmoin generic
[07:39] <Madpilot> robitaille: the colours thing only applied to table backgrounds, AFAIK
[07:40] <robitaille> I know, but it's a start
[07:40] <Madpilot> hmmm
[07:41] <Madpilot> <span style="color:red">Blathering</span> doesn't work, dammit...
[07:42] <nickrud> http://harmonies.tzone.org/RPGLex/index.cgi/DiffParser has colors
[07:44] <nickrud> don
[07:44] <nickrud> 't know python well, either :)
[07:44] <Madpilot> nickrud: that's inside code blocks only, I think
[07:44] <Madpilot> blasted wiki engine makes doing simple markup way too complex sometimes
[07:44] <nickrud> Madpilot, I saw that
[07:49] <nickrud> bold is better than nothing, I guess
[07:49] <Madpilot> bold is about the only formatting option we've got...
[07:50] <nickrud> is there a wiki channel?
[07:51] <nickrud> ah, #moin
[11:09] <mdke> morning
[11:10] <Madpilot> hi
[11:28] <mdke> jbailey, no luck with that Makefile?
[12:30] <rob^> is the css still an outstanding issue?
[12:30] <rob^> (with help.u.c)
[12:33] <mdke> yes
[12:33] <rob^> ok, I'll take a look then :)
[12:33] <mdke> cool
[12:33] <mdke> thanks
[12:33] <rob^> np
[12:35] <rob^> mdke, have you seen /build/gnome/faqguide.css?
[12:51] <mdke> rob^, yes
[12:52] <rob^> I might mess around with that
[12:52] <mdke> rob^, best to work on the css before it is generated
[12:52] <mdke> not the one in build
[12:52] <rob^> no good?
[12:53] <mdke> branches/breezy/generic/faqguide/faqguide.css
[12:53] <mdke> that's the right one i think
[12:53] <mdke> but the css issue is really the most minor right now
[12:53] <mdke> we could easily release with the current css
[12:54] <rob^> so its just the css, the make file and rev history?
[12:55] <rob^> is there any way to make html versions of the translations with the current make file?
[12:55] <rob^> I guess not
[12:56] <mdke> no that's the problem
[12:57] <rob^> I might have to have a think about how to tackle that one
[12:58] <rob^> we should be able to do it with some messing around..
[12:58] <rob^> I'll have a look tomorrow
[12:59] <mdke> there are three problems with the Makefile right now
[12:59] <mdke> first it is generating three arch-specific versions of the faqguide
[01:00] <mdke> second it is not building translations
[01:00] <mdke> third, I would like it to build a one-page version as well as the multipage versions
[01:00] <mdke> plus, the revhistory thing
[01:01] <rob^> I think the second (and maybe the first to boot) solution is to change where the xsltproc is pointing
[01:01] <rob^> (the line)
[01:01] <mdke> possibly yeah
[01:01] <mdke> i will ask sean too
[01:01] <mdke> he'll know how to solve all 4
[01:01] <rob^> heh yeah
[01:04] <rob^> I have an idea, I'll have a think about the best way to do it, if sean doesn't come up with something in the mean time I'll have a play tomorrow
[01:04] <mdke> cool
[01:06] <mdke> have fun!
[01:06] <rob^> yay
[05:34] <froud> ping mdke 
[05:41] <mdke> hi froud 
[05:41] <mdke> i'm just about to go to the supermarket tho
[05:41] <froud> hi
[05:41] <froud> just quick question
[05:41] <froud> do you want three arches or not?
[05:41] <mdke> nope, cos they are all the same
[05:41] <froud> at present nobody did profile markups to support it
[05:41] <froud> OK
[05:41] <froud> np
[05:41] <froud> later
[05:41] <mdke> thanks matey
[05:42] <froud> when are you merging to trunk?
[05:42] <mdke> the main thing is the translations tho
[05:42] <mdke> next week hopefully
[05:42] <froud> Ok
[07:35] <froud> ping mdke 
[07:37] <mdke> froud, yo, just got your email
[07:37] <mdke> thanks a lot dude
[07:37] <froud> np, please test and let me know if it works for you
[07:37] <mdke> ok i will
[07:37] <mdke> that revhistory thing
[07:37] <froud> note your build depends on the xsl
[07:37] <mdke> is that a later version of docbook than is in breezy?
[07:38] <froud> not on ubuntu now
[07:38] <mdke> ah erm
[07:38] <froud> pls check docbook-xsl with apt-cahche
[07:39] <mdke> Version: 1.68.1-0.1ubuntu1
[07:39] <froud> If not then you and team will have to bump breezy docbook-xsl ver
[07:39] <mdke> :/
[07:39] <froud> :-) 
[07:39] <mdke> we can't do that!
[07:39] <mdke> breezy has been released already
[07:39] <froud> well just you as team
[07:40] <mdke> hmm
[07:40] <mdke> is there no way to do that with an earlier version?
[07:40] <froud> yeah, but why when I have it in newer version would I want to do that
[07:41] <froud> break mdz's legs and it will get done?
[07:41] <mdke> can you tell me how?
[07:41] <mdke> i need to build the stuff on the linode server and it has Ubuntu
[07:41] <froud> yes, but then I may aswell do it myself
[07:41] <mdke> true
[07:41] <froud> just install the new version
[07:42] <mdke> I'd rather not play around with that unless I really have to
[07:42] <mdke> getting errors on the build btw
[07:42] <mdke> lots of this:
[07:42] <mdke> runtime error: file ../libs/faqguide-html-chunk-cust.xsl line 43 element call-template
[07:42] <mdke> xsl:call-template : template inline.boldseq not found
[07:42] <mdke> no result for ../generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml
[07:43] <froud> did you svn up on breezy
[07:43] <mdke> YES
[07:43] <mdke> oops
[07:43] <mdke> sorry caps
[07:43] <froud> Hmm sec
[07:44] <mdke> lines 40, 43 and 46 seem to be the problem
[07:44] <froud> oops my bad sec
[07:46] <froud> svn up
[07:46] <froud> I forgot to replace the import paths with those on an ubuntu system
[07:46] <mdke> testing
[07:46] <mdke> thanks
[07:46] <mdke> i'd really appreciate the thing being compatible with Ubuntu re 1.68
[07:46] <mdke> given that it's an ubuntu repo
[07:47] <froud> Well it will not fail
[07:47] <froud> it will just output as it does now
[07:47] <mdke> yeah
[07:47] <froud> faq-DE is empty
[07:47] <froud> so I have taken it out of the faq:
[07:47] <mdke> empty?
[07:48] <froud> and C has XInclude errors
[07:48] <mdke> yeah i saw that
[07:48] <froud> Yah DE is a blank file
[07:48] <mdke> oh yeah
[07:48] <mdke> i'll sort that
[07:48] <mdke> thanks
[07:49] <mdke> i thought we'd sorted that already
[07:49] <froud> You will see in thr translations that the docbook localizations are automatically kickin in
[07:49] <froud> best example look at HE
[07:49] <mdke> ah that is cool
[07:50] <mdke> because in yelp they are ltr rather than rtl
[07:50] <froud> Just one of the advantage of Docbook Whahhaahha feel the power
[07:50] <mdke> yeah but still, yelp should do it automatically from the xml i reckon
[07:50] <froud> The yelp concept is nice, but it is too broken for production at present, MHO
[07:51] <froud> but I think you know my thoughts ... :-)
[07:51] <mdke> ok i'm going for dinner
[07:51] <mdke> yep
[07:51] <froud> me to enjoy
[07:51] <mdke> thanks again
[07:51] <froud> np
[07:52] <mdke> jbailey, that Makefile stuff is done :)
[08:18] <mdke> shit we're gonna have to edit all the faqguide po's manually again
[08:24] <jabra> here are some docs I wrote 
[08:24] <jabra> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra/breezy-docs.html
[08:25] <mdke> cool jabra 
[08:26] <mdke> s/allocated/allocate
[08:27] <mdke> nice screenshots!
[08:27] <mdke> you could include instructions on how to do the partitioning via the installer I guess
[09:05] <mdke> hey rob^ 
[09:05] <mdke> the guide got a mention at http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2005101401026OPDT
[10:35] <mdke> hey there burgs
[10:35] <Burglaptop> hello
[10:39] <mdke> :)
[10:40] <mdke> but hey, you're the ideas man :)
[10:40] <Burglaptop> if nobody dreams big, then we get nowhere
[10:41] <mdke> well actually i think that if we aim to do too much, we'll get nothing done, a bit like for Breezy
[10:41] <Burglaptop> hmm
[10:41] <mdke> hmm
[10:42] <Burglaptop> I think that was more lack of fully spec-ing everything out
[10:42] <Burglaptop> if the faqguide had been better speced other could have worked on it earlier
[10:42] <Burglaptop> and I kind of screwed the pooch with the quicktour
[10:42] <mdke> not sure dude
[10:42] <mdke> we have about 3 contributors right now
[10:43] <mdke> maybe 4
[10:43] <Burglaptop> yes
[10:43] <Burglaptop> the issue was that we need to start specing in the next month
[10:43] <Burglaptop> to start writing as soon after UBZ as possible
[10:43] <mdke> ok i agree with that
[10:43] <mdke> except the UBZ bit
[10:44] <Burglaptop> you want to start writing earilier?
[10:44] <mdke> since only you are gonna be at UBZ, the specs will mostly have to be done in irc meetings/email
[10:44] <mdke> we can't do the specs at UBZ
[10:44] <Burglaptop> yes, I mean specing before UBZ
[10:44] <mdke> we need a big fat meeting
[10:44] <mdke> ASAP
[10:45] <Burglaptop> you want me to organize it?
[10:45] <mdke> heh
[10:45] <mdke> i would get jerome on it
[10:45] <mdke> but feel free
[10:46] <mdke> i would say, a short period of brainstorming/ideas, followed by gathering them together, followed by meeting
[10:46] <mdke> and we need to put to bed the UbuntuHelp/faqguide debate
[10:47] <Burglaptop> that is going to be the most contentious issue
[10:47] <mdke> yes
[10:48] <mdke> but in my opinion, apart from the "design a new help interface", actually the contentiousness is basically a matter of calling the doc a different name, and making it more user friendly
[10:48] <Burglaptop> yes
[10:48] <mdke> the two ideas are pretty reconcilable
[10:48] <Burglaptop> the Breezy faqguide talks a lot about hwat you need to add, but nothing about what is already on the system
[10:48] <mdke> yes that is true
[10:48] <mdke> that is the basic distinction we've been making between faqguide and userguide
[10:49] <mdke> perhaps they should be in the same document
[10:49] <mdke> btw did you see the good mention of the guide at http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2005101401026OPDT
[10:49] <mdke> ?
[10:50] <Burglaptop> I skimmed that and assumed he meant ubuntuguide.org (which seems to be down
[10:50] <mdke> i don't think so
[10:51] <Burglaptop> hmm, is up again
[10:51] <mdke> "onboard documentation"
[10:51] <Burglaptop> yes, I just read that
[10:52] <Burglaptop> mdke, what your goals for dapper?
[10:54] <Burglaptop> ok, aboutubuntu for dapper needs some serious hacks
[10:55] <Burglaptop> hey jjesse 
[10:58] <jjesse> hiya Burglaptop
[10:58] <jjesse> wow there was a lot to catch up on after a week being gone
[10:58] <Burglaptop> how goes life in Kubuntu-land?
[10:58] <jjesse> Burglaptop just got back from a week being !internet on vacation w/ wife
[10:59] <Burglaptop> ah
[10:59] <mdke> Burglaptop, i don't really have any right now
[10:59] <mdke> better infrastructure in our repo i would say
[11:00] <mdke> maybe we could adopt the gnome-doc build system
[11:00] <Burglaptop> ok
[11:00] <Burglaptop> to be honest, translations and building docs are things I should care about but cannot seem to
[11:01] <jjesse> Burglaptop: i agree w/ you right now I would rather get the docs done then build them
[11:06] <Burglaptop> ok, just sent something to the list about About Ubuntu/browser start page for dapper
[11:12] <Burglaptop> ok, I think I sent enough stuff to the list for now
[11:20] <Burglaptop> salut mpt 
[11:47] <mdke> Burglaptop, tbh, i don't think the browser start page is going to be much our decision
[11:49] <Burglaptop> mdke, we can talk about it
[11:49] <mdke> true
[11:49] <Burglaptop> even if it isn't ours, we can think about it and present what we think is the best idea
[11:49] <mdke> but there is not a lot of point if we come to decisions and then other decisions are made over the top of us
[11:50] <Burglaptop> code speaks volumes
[11:50] <Burglaptop> I intend to start hacking something together with my brother before UBZ
[11:50] <mdke> okay
[11:50] <mdke> but be aware that they will probably employ professionals to do it
[11:51] <mdke> they tried to for breezy already but too late
[11:51] <Burglaptop> ya
[11:51] <Burglaptop> but the professionals they hire could come and talk to us, you know
[11:51] <mdke> they could
[11:51] <Burglaptop> mpt had designs on redesigning all of ubuntu.com
[11:52] <mdke> heh
[11:52] <mpt> redesigning? noooo
[11:52] <mpt> just minor improvements
[11:52] <mpt> like no longer playing hide-the-links
[11:52] <Burglaptop> yes
[11:53] <Burglaptop> and a much briefer front page
[11:53] <Burglaptop> but that is really more a job for the marketing team
[11:53] <mdke> hmm
[11:54] <mdke> it is really more a job for canonical employees
[11:54] <Burglaptop> yes
[11:54] <Burglaptop> should we pass the quicktour off to the marketing team?
[11:54] <mdke> if they want it
[11:55] <mdke> it's a quite young team right?
[11:55] <Burglaptop> it is a better fit for them
[11:55] <mpt> There's a marketing team??
[11:55] <Burglaptop> yes
[11:55] <mdke> mpt, yeah, see lp
[11:55] <ajmitch_> apparatnly
[11:55] <Burglaptop> lots of startup energy
[11:56] <Burglaptop> I expect a lot of that to simply die
[11:56] <mdke> it's another one of these teams that springs up
[11:56] <mdke> like new user network
[11:56] <Burglaptop> mdke, I think that we did well for this release
[11:56] <mdke> -doc?
[11:56] <Burglaptop> it is usually after the first energy dies that things fail. Observe the nun
[11:56] <mpt> or ubuntu-artwork
[11:56] <Burglaptop> yes
[11:56] <mpt> Burglaptop, the nun?
[11:56] <mdke> i think that jane and others at canonical have marketing well in hand tbh
[11:57] <mpt> the sun?
[11:57] <Burglaptop> mpt, New User Network
[11:57] <Burglaptop> mdke, you can never have enough marketing
[11:57] <mpt> yes, yes you can
[11:57] <mdke> yeah
[11:57] <mdke> bad marketing is counterproductive
[11:58] <Burglaptop> yes, I should have clarified that
[11:58] <Burglaptop> but Ubuntu has not yet hit that point, imo
[11:58] <mpt> For example, in Ubuntu's current state, TV advertisements declaring it as an alternative to Windows would be counterproductive
[11:58] <Burglaptop> yes
[11:59] <mdke> ok i'm off
[11:59] <mdke> ciao
[11:59] <mpt> tchau
[12:00] <Burglaptop> mpt, where do you want to go for dapper?
[12:00] <Burglaptop> doc-wise, I mean
[12:01] <mpt> the HelpfulHelp direction, I think
[12:01] <mpt> and DefaultHomePage
[12:01] <ajmitch_> lovely, launchpad usability complaints filed as a critical bug :)
[12:02] <Burglaptop> mpt, you beaten bradb over the head for the new malone look yet?
[12:03] <mpt> Burglaptop, don't blame bradb or myself
[12:03] <mpt> We're operating under managerial constraints
[12:03] <Burglaptop> I see
[12:04] <Burglaptop> was that layout directed from above?