[12:02] <mpt> mjg59, ok, thanks anyway -- reporting the bug now
[12:02] <Christophe971> ploum_: you're following the devel list no ?
[12:09] <jdub> mae: conary? interesting, but with the burden of complexity very mich on the user
[12:10] <ploum__> Christophe971, yes, I'm following it
[12:10] <Christophe971> ploum__: so what about "ubuntu-multimedia" and "ubuntu-*" metapackages ? it's for dapper ?
[12:12] <mae> jdub, yeah, but some of its ideas could be taken and integrated into apt, it would require alot of infrastructure change.. would probably need to branch off for awhile... but the transactional features are very nice.
[12:12] <Christophe971> ploum__: ton pseudo est enregistr ?
[12:12] <ploum__> yes
[12:12] <Christophe971> ben alors
[12:12] <ploum__> (ploum at least)
[12:12] <Christophe971> tu rponds pas ? :D
[12:12] <Christophe971> arf
[12:13] <Christophe971> ploum__: au fait, t'as qu'a nettoyer ta liste jabber, c'est facile
[12:14] <Christophe971> ploum__: so, this teasing about the marketing campain of ubuntu
[12:14] <Christophe971> ?
[12:14] <ploum__> Christophe971, please tell me this in private, not on this channel
[12:15] <Christophe971> impossible, you're not registered
[12:15] <Christophe971> kill your ghost
[12:24] <jdub> mjg59: so
[12:25] <jdub> mjg59: have you seen the buzzy image you get when you switch an intel card to display on both the lcd and vga?
[12:25] <jdub> mjg59: which you don't get if you output to the vga alone?
[12:28] <crimsun> yeah, that's problematic
[12:28] <mjg59> jdub: Yes
[12:28] <mjg59> No, there's currently no good workaround
[12:29] <jdub> bum
[12:30] <jdub> it's okay when you get another screen in front of you
[12:30] <jdub> but really annoying when you only have your laptop screen as a reference - or the main projector screen
[12:31] <mjg59> Yes
[12:31] <mjg59> Need to speak to alanh about it, really
[01:49] <ogra> yeah, hi shermann 
[01:49] <\sh__> jo ogra :) 
[01:49] <ogra> mdz, around ? 
[01:50] <\sh__> hehe...funny
[01:50] <ogra> *g*
[01:50] <\sh__> my laptop (netboot) via ogras laptop over his wlan card...
[01:50] <ogra> mdz, we're just running multiarch ltsp over here ...
[01:51] <\sh__> ogra, it works :) great :)
[01:51] <ogra> yeah
[01:56] <\sh__> ok..shutting down the laptop...good night ;)
[02:09] <shadeofgrey> hello!  im not a coder or developer or anything so ill get out of everybody's way i just...,...  wanted very much to say thanks to everybody who makes ubuntu possible and free for people like me...  i always wanted to learn linux and failed miserably thanks to the daunting task of learning fedora core...
[02:09] <shadeofgrey> but thanks to ubuntu ive managed to learn thousands of times more than i ever thought possible by myself, and for that, you all deserve far better than my heartfelt thanks could ever give you...
[02:10] <shadeofgrey> anyway...  my name is Chris and my email address is shadeofgrey@gmail.com -- send me an email if i could ever be of any help - especially with your assistive software because im very physically handicapped, so id make an excellent guinea pig
[02:12] <shadeofgrey> thanks again for all your hard work and dedication..  you've made it possible for me to kill windows with an Ice pick, and now that I've broken free, I'll never ever go back...  even if i hgave to pay for ubuntu... I would.
[02:12] <shadeofgrey> keep up the good work and thanks!
[03:16] <Robot101> love that xorg bug where xine initialising the screen makes it hang
[03:16] <Robot101> crash
[03:17] <Robot101> and then gdm restarts it in an infinite loop
[03:17] <Robot101> displaying the cursor before the server crashes again
[03:17] <Robot101> apparently indefinitely
[03:17] <Robot101> its not in the slightest bit annoying
[03:18] <Keybuk> heh
[03:18] <Keybuk> Robot101: you know gtk stuff a bit, right?
[03:19] <Robot101> The display server has been shut down about 6 times in the last 90 seconds. It is likely that something bad is going on.  Waiting for 2 minutes before trying again on display :0.
[03:19] <Robot101> oh it got the message. making me wait a minute and a half sure sucks
[03:19] <Robot101> Keybuk: yes
[03:19] <Keybuk> so I have a TreeView, and I want to draw in one of the cells with cairo
[03:19] <Keybuk> and I've got the puzzle in front of me, and all I have is sky
[03:20] <Keybuk> if I put a CellRendererPixbuf in there, I can't get a cairo context for it
[03:20] <Keybuk> etc.
[03:20] <dieman> http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?page_id=15
[03:20] <dieman> someones ranting on ubuntu bugs
[03:20] <dieman> hope hes reporting them
[03:21] <dieman> looks like a former windows user, too, though.
[03:21] <Robot101> Keybuk: how do you usually render cairo in a gtk widget?
[03:22] <Keybuk> Robot101: no idea
[03:22] <Robot101> Keybuk: I think that's the source of the problem :D
[03:22] <dieman> when do we get opengl accelerated cairo? :)
[03:22] <Keybuk> like I say, I just have sky at the moment, looking for a corner or an edge <g>
[03:22] <Keybuk> never had time to play with this new cairofied gtk
[03:22] <Keybuk> and I figure what I'm doing is perfect for cairo
[03:25] <Keybuk> maybe I just need to stop fiddling with pixbufs and sub-class GtkCellRenderer myself to implement a Cairo one
[03:27] <dieman> with ubuntu server, does it just installa different task and have different stuff on cd?
[03:28] <dieman> christ, search for ubuntu server edition and you get my mirror instead of ubuntulinux.org
[03:29] <Robot101> Keybuk: if cairo can target an X window, you should be able to ferret out the right thing from the cell renderer
[03:30] <jdub> dieman: it installs the minimal server selection by default, includes different extra packages on cd
[03:30] <Robot101> Keybuk: GTK_WIDGET(foo)->window is the GdkWindow
[03:30] <dieman> jdub: ok.
[03:30] <Robot101> Keybuk: but I don't seem to have found any code that does this, or pixbuf rendering
[03:30] <Robot101> http://live.gnome.org/ProjectRidley_2fGnomeCanvas
[03:30] <Robot101> there's some vapourware plans
[03:30] <dieman> jdub: is it a task or just ubuntu-base?
[03:31] <Robot101> http://www.gtk.org/plan/meetings/20050913.txt refers to some "example code" which I can't find
[03:32] <jdub> dieman: ubuntu-standard i think, but you should check with Kamion to be sure
[03:32] <dieman> jdub: thanks tho, just wondering. dont want to stare at bits of d-i to find this ;)
[03:32] <dieman> d-i is confusing as heck last time i looked
[03:33] <dieman> just wondering, as I do most of my ubuntu installs through fai
[03:33] <dieman> (and do work in-house to make fai work well with ubuntu for our needs)
[03:33] <Keybuk> Robot101: I've worked out how to grab a CairoContext from any drawable
[03:33] <Keybuk> so I just need to sub-class cellrenderer and override its render function (which gives me a drawable)
[03:34] <dieman> i've got a new guy to help out at work too, i threw him at the debian policy manual first ;)
[03:38] <Robot101> Keybuk: cairo_t *gdk_cairo_create(GdkDrawable *drawable) ?
[03:38] <Keybuk> yeah
[03:55] <Mithrandir> dieman: pft, d-i is sensibly laid out and easy to grasp, even more so after you understand the basic concepts.
[03:58] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: oh! why are you awake? :-)
[03:58] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: just got home from a party.
[03:59] <Nafallo> ah :-)
[04:00] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: I've pounded on the www.magicalforest.se ;-)
[04:19] <jcohen85> One of the breezy goals was to have the ubuntu update manager automatically inform users when a new Ubuntu release was available and to allow a distribution upgrade w/o having to edit the repositories. This goal was unfortunately deferred. Will this be something that's done for dapper?
[04:24] <eazel7> hi ppl
[04:37] <fede2> Hey guys about the sparc port... what's the deal with it? I haven't been able to find mutch information other that the repository at http://sparc.ubuntu.com/.
[04:38] <Lathiat> there was an announcement that went out
[04:38] <Lathiat> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-October/000040.html
[04:40] <fede2> Lathiat, _thanks_.
[04:53] <mpt> jcohen85, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomaticUpgrade should answer your question within a month
[05:47] <jcohen85> mpt: why have a seperate application? It makes far more sense to have the ubuntu upgrade manager inform you of a new release and offer to upgrade as that application is used by users on a regular basis anyways. 
[05:56] <mpt> jcohen85, I entirely agree, and said so on that wiki page
[05:57] <jcohen85> wasn't the breezy goal an addition to the upgrade manager rather than the creation of a new program?
[05:57] <mpt> I have no idea
[05:57] <jcohen85> thanks for the info
[05:57] <mpt> I didn't know it was a Breezy goal
[05:58] <jcohen85> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemUpgradeTool
[05:58] <mpt> Hopefully we can reduce the number of graphical installation/update tools from 3 to 1
[05:59] <jcohen85> 3?
[05:59] <jcohen85> aren't the main ones synaptic and ubuntu update manager?
[05:59] <mpt> synaptic, gnome-app-install, update-manager
[06:00] <jcohen85> gnome-app-install is the "Add/Remove Applications" one for new users?
[06:00] <mpt> yeah
[06:00] <jdub> mpt: update and install are different enough that it's not worth combining (you'd just end up with an over-stuffed ui)
[06:00] <jcohen85> each one seems to serve different purposes
[06:00] <jdub> (like synaptic)
[06:00] <jdub> (which ought to stay, as the advanced admin tool)
[06:00] <jcohen85> i like the fact that the upgrade tool has a simple interface and just lists the packages to be updated with info on what was changed as an option
[06:01] <jdub> (so the current number and split is fairly reasonable)
[06:01] <jcohen85> i think it should also have an option to upgrade automatically- to make the process even simpler. It's good that the upgrade tool is trivially easy to use
[06:01] <mpt> jdub: The combined tool would be simpler than synaptic is currently
[06:01] <jcohen85> mpt: what would you do with g-a-i?
[06:02] <jdub> mpt: it would still be over-stuffed, if attempting to combine install and update
[06:02] <jdub> (into one ui)
[06:02] <jcohen85> i can't see it as a replacement to synaptic. synaptic offers many advanced features g-a-i doesn't have and shouldn't have
[06:02] <mpt> well, there's not much I can say to that, except, I disagree
[06:02] <jdub> there needs to be more commonality, but not combination at the ui level
[06:03] <jdub> otherwise you end up going down the path of the windows add/remove thingy, then red carpet, then synaptic (in order of complexity)
[06:03] <jcohen85> what's red carpet?
[06:03] <jdub> teh novell/ximian synaptic-like tool
[06:04] <jdub> it used to be quite simple, but had a frustrating ui
[06:04] <jdub> now it's almost as complicated as synaptic
[06:04] <jdub> but a bit nicer for the admin use case than synaptic
[06:05] <whiprush> i find redcarpet much easier to use than synaptic
[06:05] <jdub> yeah
[06:05] <jdub> much clearer
[06:06] <whiprush> well, except for that monkey molesting a computer icon they have. :p
[06:06] <jcohen85> what's wrong with synaptic?
[06:06] <jcohen85> i came from mandrake and i thought synaptic was a great improvement
[06:06] <jcohen85> very powerful and easy to use
[06:07] <jcohen85> if you haven't used mandrake- they had a tool for installing AND a tool for removal- it was essentially the same program but you couldn't do both at once which was very frustrating. 
[06:07] <jdub> it's fine for admin-level users, but still has a difficult user interface for that use case
[06:07] <jcohen85> isn't g-a-i for new users?
[06:07] <mpt> jcohen: It's not obvious how to upgrade, editing repositories is very awkward, making selections is very awkward, the workflow isn't obvious
[06:07] <jdub> gai is for the common use case (not just new users)
[06:08] <mpt> and every so often update-manager will say "This is too hard for me, use synaptic"
[06:09] <jcohen85> so- for users that want to view changelogs, need to do a dist-upgrade (run the development version), lock an application at a certain version etc. you would use synaptic. But you see gai as what the average user will use?
[06:09] <mpt> eww
[06:10] <mpt> scrolling tabs
[06:10] <SuperLag> Any of you guys happen to use Ubuntu on PPC?
[06:11] <jdub> jcohen85: hopefully most users (not new, not average) will find a gai equivalent straight-forward and easy to use for installing and removing applications
[06:11] <jdub> SuperLag: sounds like a question coming that would be more appropriate on #ubuntu
[06:12] <jcohen85> jdub: huh- maybe i have to look at gai again. I found it pitifully inadequate in hoary. I spoke with the developer of the new gai and found some of the new features quite interesting but I never saw it as a synaptic replacement.
[06:12] <SuperLag> jdub: Well.  Normally I'd say yes.  I'm not a newbie though, and though I develop for another distro... I've got things going on with this install that I think I'd get quicker help from a fellow developer.
[06:13] <jdub> probably easier to ask straight up
[06:13] <jdub> jcohen85: it landed first in hoary
[06:13] <jdub> jcohen85: it is not a 'synaptic replacement'
[06:13] <SuperLag> Yaboot isn't playing nice, and is trying to install a new version from the installer when it's already installed.
[06:14] <SuperLag> I know I have this set up right, because I can get an install with Gentoo, but no matter what combination of options I try, yaboot fails every time.
[06:14] <jdub> jcohen85: it's an application add/remove tool, which is overwhelmingly the major goal users have with this kind of tool - synaptic is much more appropriate as an admin tool (and could be vastly better at handling that use case, too)
[06:16] <jdub> jcohen85: (and gai is going to keep improving release to release)
[06:27] <Amaranth> and, best of all, the new gai works with newer pyxdg versions! ;)
[06:44] <Lathiat> Amaranth: gai?
[06:44] <Amaranth> gnome-app-install
[06:44] <Lathiat> ah
[07:59] <jsgotangco> greets
[08:43] <spacey_ki> morning
[10:04] <jsgotangco> dum dum dee dum
[10:05] <sivang> Morning all
[10:05] <jsgotangco> morning sivang 
[10:05] <sivang> jsgotangco: hi there, what's up?
[10:05] <jsgotangco> ahhh just relaxing on a sunday afternoon (its raining outside so i can't really go out)
[10:14] <sivang> jsgotangco: ah nice, where are you in?
[10:16] <jsgotangco> sivang, here in Manila (Philippines)
[10:27] <sivang> jsgotangco: oh cool, that's a nice place :)
[10:29] <zyga> hello
[10:30] <sivang> hi there zyga 
[10:38] <siretart> morning folks!
[10:40] <swestres> mornin' siretart 
[11:29] <pitti> Hi
[11:30] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[11:30] <ajmitch> how are you this morning?
[11:37] <pitti> Hi ajmitch! fine, thanks
[11:37] <pitti> and you?
[11:38] <ajmitch> good thanks
[11:38] <ajmitch> just went & visited parents for the weekend
[11:38] <ajmitch> so it was nice & quiet :)
[11:38] <ajmitch> now it's time for me to write up some stuff for UBZ
[11:41] <\sh> todo for tomorrow: package new python-kde3 and hope it's fixed by upstream 
[11:49] <sivang> pitti: Hi Martin!
[11:50] <sivang> ajmitch: goign to plan SELinux ?
[11:56] <ndazza> hi! i have a local mirror of the ubuntu repo and i'm looking to build the official CDs/DVDs for all the arch's for my local LUG. can this be done through jigdo or some other mechanism? I have found the jigdo files for the install CDs but not for DVDs or live CDs
[12:03] <ajmitch> sivang: sure
[12:56] <pef> hello
[01:00] <sivang> hey pef 
[01:13] <Solatis> hello, i'm having some glibc problems (linking never works, returns errors that there are undefined references in the glibc library), did a clean breezy install and still have the same problems, and my bug report @ bugzilla doesn't really get any real responses (other than "do you have all the latest packages installed") ... any recommendations on what to do ? I've created a really simple test case that reproduces the problem... 
[01:21] <Solatis> anyone has any idea where to go next ? i'm getting really desperate (which is why i'm spamming here)
[01:22] <mdke> not much more you can do apart from keep answering questions on the bug report
[01:22] <mdke> maybe try the mailing list -devel
[01:22] <Solatis> ok, if there are still no respnses to the bug report today i'll do that
[01:34] <infinity> Solatis : Have you attached your testcase to the bug report?
[01:34] <Solatis> infinity: no not yet, at the moment i've only pasted it inside the comments ( basically, to show the problem couldn't be my code )
[01:35] <mvo> Solatis: what bug number?
[01:36] <Solatis> 17771
[01:39] <infinity> Solatis : Your testcase works here.  Which arch is this one?
[01:39] <infinity> s/one/on/
[01:39] <Solatis> athlon xp, if that's what you mean
[01:40] <infinity> Kay, this is an i386 system here too, and your test case (compiled exactly as you did) works fine.
[01:40] <Mithrandir> Solatis: is the system otherwise stable?  Without looking very much at it, it sounds like hardware trouble.
[01:40] <Solatis> then do you have any idea why/how this can go wrong on a clean breezy install ? i just created one inside vmware
[01:41] <Solatis> yes, last thursday it worked perfectly... then i upgraded to breezy, and this happened
[01:41] <Solatis> and the system is perfectly stable otherwise, yes
[01:45] <infinity> Solatis : What's the output of:
[01:45] <infinity> nm -D /lib/libpthread.so.0 | grep libc_stack_end
[01:46] <Solatis>          U __libc_stack_end
[01:47] <infinity> Right, kay.  Nothing wrong there, then.
[01:47] <infinity> Does adding "-lc" to your linker line magically make the error go away?  (no, this shouldn't be necessary)
[01:47] <Solatis> `g++ -lc -o test ./test.cpp` still gives the error
[01:48] <infinity> Same error?  Cause that's pretty weird, then.
[01:48] <infinity> Err, you don't have another libc in your search path, do you?
[01:49] <Solatis> well, no, not really... if i add -pthread option, it finds a fault in libpthread.so.6, if i don't add that option, it find a fault in libc.so.6....
[01:49] <Solatis> not that i know of
[01:49] <Solatis> it's a clean breezy install, so it should be... how can i easily check on libc's in my search path ? using ldconfig -p ?
[01:50] <Solatis> by the way, if i rewrite my application to be fully c instead of c++ it still gives linking errors
[01:51] <Solatis> this time:
[01:51] <Solatis> /lib/libc.so.6: undefined reference to `__libc_stack_end@GLIBC_2.1'
[01:51] <Solatis> /lib/libc.so.6: undefined reference to `_rtld_global_ro@GLIBC_PRIVATE'
[01:51] <infinity> I assume libc6-dev is installed, and not messed up in some way?
[01:51] <Lathiat> what on earth are you doing :\
[01:52] <Solatis> yes, version 2.3.5-1ubuntu12 is installed, and no i did no configuring whatsoever
[01:56] <infinity> So, I assume a basic C printf("Hello World"); fails to link too?
[01:57] <Solatis> yep
[01:57] <Solatis> ok, this does it... i'm going to test if my machine fails even under a totally different linux distro
[01:57] <infinity> Yeah, very unusual, and you're quite obviously the only person with this issue, or our archive wouldn't build. :)
[01:58] <Solatis> because i really get the feeling this indeed is very unusual
[01:58] <infinity> Can you dup your environment to the bug log?
[01:58] <Solatis> yeah, i'm getting the feeling this really is some problem you guys cannot help
[01:58] <infinity> s/dup/dump/
[01:58] <Solatis> sure, what command do i have to use to do that ?
[01:59] <infinity> The output of "set" would be fine.
[01:59] <Solatis> ok
[01:59] <infinity> But it looks like linc isn't being linked.
[01:59] <infinity> (Well, the RIGHT libc isn't being linked)
[02:00] <infinity> Which is so clearly not an issue in breezy, or we'd all be broken.  So, it's got to be something local.
[02:00] <Lathiat> not mounting an old /usr/local or something ?
[02:00] <Lathiat> or have a LD_LIBRARY_PATH\or LD_PRELOAD
[02:00] <Solatis> nop, i am mounting an nfs /home
[02:00] <Lathiat> or something
[02:00] <infinity> linker looking anywhere in you ~ for libs?
[02:01] <infinity> s/you/your/
[02:01] <Solatis> yeah, one of my own homebrew libs, no glibc as far as i'm aware
[02:01] <infinity> Solatis : An strace of the linker call would be nice too.
[02:01] <Solatis> ok
[02:01] <infinity> Solatis : Do a hello world, compile to a .o, then link it.  strace the link.
[02:01] <infinity> That should show us where it's looking, and hopefully why it's not getting libc.
[02:02] <infinity> Attach all of this to the report, please don't inline it in massive comments. :)
[02:02] <Solatis> haha kay kay :)
[02:02] <Solatis> thanks for your help, i really appreciate it
[02:02] <Mithrandir> to see if it's something in the environment, try compiling hello as root?
[02:03] <infinity> Or just with a clean env.
[02:03] <Solatis> ok, lemme try that
[02:03] <Solatis> oh boy.... 
[02:03] <Solatis> ok, that worked
[02:03] <infinity> "env -i gcc foo.c"
[02:03] <Solatis> ok, i guess at the moment i'm wasting your time - it's clearly something with my environment
[02:03] <Lathiat> Solatis: run an export and paste that into a file somewhere
[02:03] <Lathiat> with your normal env
[02:04] <infinity> Solatis : Oh, I assumed it was your environment long ago, I'm still curious how you're managing to not link libc, though. :)
[02:05] <infinity> The only way I can think of off the top of my head is with -fno-default-libs.
[02:05] <Lathiat> shouldnt -lc change that tho
[02:05] <infinity> And I somehow doubt your environment contains "alias gcc="gcc -fno-default-libs", y'know?
[02:05] <Lathiat> Solatis: export output?
[02:06] <infinity> And yes, -lc would bring libc back even with -fno-default-libs, good point.
[02:06] <Lathiat> i think the appropriate description is 'f**ked' :)
[02:06] <infinity> So, the assumption here is that you ARE linking libc from somewhere, just not the one in /lib/
[02:06] <Solatis> yeah indeed
[02:06] <Solatis> but where...
[02:06] <Solatis> :)
[02:07] <Lathiat> Solatis: run export, and put the output on pastebin or something
[02:08] <infinity> Solatis : As previously-suggested, an strace of the failing linker call will probably point out your problem in big blinking letters.
[02:08] <infinity> Cause you should see it scanning the (wrong) directory, and opening the (wrong) libc to link.
[02:08] <Lathiat> indeed
[02:10] <Solatis> http://pastebin.com/395292
[02:10] <Solatis> that's the export
[02:10] <Solatis> now the strace
[02:11] <Lathiat> Solatis: nothing strange looking there
[02:11] <infinity> Not a very exciting environment.
[02:11] <Lathiat> quite
[02:11] <Lathiat> strace then
[02:11] <Solatis> infinity: it's a clean install! i am exciting, usually... :P
[02:14] <Solatis> ahhhh!
[02:14] <infinity> I take it the strace was enlightening? :)
[02:14] <Solatis> ok, i see that he indeed is using a library version i put somewhere in my home directory
[02:15] <Solatis> but who put it there
[02:15] <Solatis> hmmmm
[02:15] <Lathiat> your mother
[02:15] <Lathiat> its the eyes in the back of her head :)
[02:15] <infinity> Lathiat : Very helpful.
[02:15] <Solatis> ahhh, sheesh, i'm so sorry i took so much of your time :)
[02:15] <Lathiat> infinity: totally
[02:15] <infinity> Solatis : No big deal.  I live to give.
[02:15] <Lathiat> Solatis: heh, its ok
[02:15] <Lathiat> i didnt realise ld searched out libraries in the current dir tho
[02:15] <infinity> Solatis : Just go update and close the bug, and we're even. :)
[02:15] <Solatis> haha :)
[02:15] <Solatis> infinity: roger :)
[02:21] <\sh> infinity: can u do me a favour for dapper? and include the nice splitlog script from gentoos apache..it works much better in vhost environments then the original ones
[02:21] <\sh> -s
[02:23] <infinity> \sh : Uhh, what's wrong with having a log for each vhost, which is what most sane people do?
[02:24] <infinity> (Okay, if you have millions of vhosts and don't want to eat file descriptors, i could see logging to one log and splitting it, but that's an unusual setup)
[02:25] <infinity> (One unusual enough that you probably have some pretty interesting custom logging and splitting anyway)
[02:25] <\sh> infinity: no...it's not unsual...using a ENV var for setting the log to vhost bla and everything works niceley...and the cpu consumption is not worth to mention...
[02:26] <\sh> infinity: the vhost setup from gentoo is really easy to administrate...and fits perfectly in debians "sites-available, sites-enabled" system....i can give u an example of the config ;)
[02:27] <\sh> infinity: but it's just an idea of improvement...a nice to have
[02:28] <\sh> CustomLog "|/usr/sbin/split-logfile" vhost env=VLOG
[02:29] <\sh> and in virtualhost section
[02:29] <\sh> Setenv VLOG /var/www/blogweb.de/logs/
[02:29] <\sh> that's all..ok I missed out the LogFormat line for vhost
[02:31] <\sh> then a nice clean install of templated mod-logan analyzer stuff, a small script which replaces the hostnames and a hourly cron script...and voila -> \sh is happy, because he's a lazy admin ;)
[03:05] <infinity> \sh : I don't see how that ends up being drastically different from just setting CustomLog for each vhost.
[03:06] <\sh> infinity: u set it once serverwide and the rest is done by the split-log script automatically...and using mod_vhost for mass hosting is much easier to handle
[03:09] <infinity> \sh : Err, but you just said you do a custom SetEnv for each vhost.  That seems pretty much identical to a custom CustomLog for each vhost.
[03:10] <\sh> infinity: for mod_vhost u do only one 
[03:13] <infinity> Alright, I'll bite.
[03:13] <ndazza> hi! i have a local mirror of ubuntu and i'd like to build my own cds/dvds from them, including live CDs. I can probably figure out building the install CDs from jigdo but how can i build the live CDs/DVDs
[03:13] <infinity> File a bug in Debian's BTS, with the script attached (including whatever license Gentoo is licensing it with, I won't include it if it's not Apache-compatible)
[03:14] <infinity> ndazza : You don't, at least, not easily.
[03:14] <ndazza> infinity: bugger! there's no automagic scripts to build a live cd then?
[03:15] <infinity> \sh : Err, wait.  split-logfile comes from the apache sources.
[03:15] <infinity> \sh : Unless Gentoo's is somehow different..
[03:15] <infinity> \sh : Yeah, we include it.  So, how is theirs better?
[03:17] <infinity> \sh : Ahh, I see, the upstream one doesn't allow you to specify the target of the logs.
[03:17] <infinity> \sh : Well, file a bug and a patch, please.
[03:17] <\sh> infinity: will do :)
[03:18] <infinity> \sh : And make sure the behaviour is backward compatible with the upstream split-logfile, if called the same way.
[03:18] <\sh> infinity: I'm using it btw on my hoary install :)
[03:18] <\sh> infinity: yeah it's called the same way
[03:18] <infinity> (I'm not going to break existing installs)
[03:18] <infinity> Right, but if it's called without specifying the target location, does it behave the same way?  (split logfiles into ./$(vhost).log)?
[03:19] <\sh> infinity: hmmm..we can provide a new name for it and bring it in as alternative
[03:19] <\sh> infinity: yes...including date etc.
[03:19] <Lathiat> 8/win 38
[03:19] <\sh> infinity: so it's doing logration on it's own
[03:19] <\sh> infinity: I'll send you a test setup as well...
[03:20] <infinity> Alright.
[03:20] <infinity> Debian BTS, package "apache2-utils".
[03:20] <\sh> k
[03:27] <\sh> looks like if libofx is our waterloo
[03:27] <\sh> motus waterloo to be exactly
[03:29] <\sh> infinity: can we make an update to libofx via breezy-updates?
[03:29] <infinity> After all those uploads, you still got it wrong
[03:29] <infinity> ?
[03:31] <\sh> infinity: we focused the replaces on libofx1 and not on hoarys libofx0
[03:31] <\sh> grmpf
[03:31] <\sh> two people one bug
[03:31] <siretart> hm. do we have a breezy-updates policy somewhere on the wiki or elsewhere?
[03:32] <infinity> \sh : Erm, when have we ever shipped a libofx0?
[03:32] <infinity> \sh : Oh, you mean libofx0c102?
[03:32] <\sh> infinity: yes
[03:32] <infinity> I vaguely recall mentioning that one, way back when. :)
[03:32] <infinity> You realise that finding overlapping files is as easy as searching for that file on packages.ubuntu.com, right?
[03:33] <infinity> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=libofx.la&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=hoary&arch=i386
[03:34] <infinity> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=libofx.la&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=breezy&arch=i386
[03:34] <\sh> infinity: put some salt into our wounds *headbangingonthetablenexttome*
[03:34] <infinity> So, that shows the three packages which needed Replaces.
[03:34] <infinity> Anyhow, breezy-updates is approval-only, probably even for universe.
[03:35] <siretart> infinity: who approves breezy-updates? and according to what policy?
[03:35] <\sh> infinity: which is fine with me..I only want to have the possibility
[03:37] <\sh> s/want/need/
[03:41] <\sh> and somehow now, this ABBA song is in my head..
[05:04] <janimo> is there a place I can get old versions of binary debs? I am interested in the ati driver deb from 6.8.2-75
[07:51] <einheit> on apt-get update:
[07:51] <einheit> W: GPG error: http://lt.archive.ubuntu.com breezy-updates Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[07:51] <einheit> 
[07:51] <einheit> anything to worry about?
[07:53] <Znarl> einheit : Do you use a proxy server?
[07:53] <SteveA_> hi karl
[07:53] <SteveA_> not on purpose
[07:53] <SteveA_> but i think my isp enforces one
[07:54] <SteveA_> semi-transparently
[07:54] <Znarl> Ah, that could be it and that our archive mirrors are falling out of sync again.
[07:57] <Znarl> I just re-synced our two temp archive servers.  Shouldn't happen now.
[07:59] <SteveA_> looking better
[08:12] <SteveA_> thanks Znarl 
[08:27] <KraetziChriZ> Hi Guys
[08:27] <KraetziChriZ> After Upgrading to KDE 3.4.3 the QT-Tool "klibido" is a littlebit broken -> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/download.php?id=153 -> anyone know what there is going wrong?
[08:28] <KraetziChriZ> (too many menues..)
[09:36] <zyga> everyone is sleeping? :)
[09:41] <ajmitch> morning
[09:41] <mdke> morning
[11:04] <ogra> mdz, around ? 
[11:04] <pitti> Hi ogra
[11:04] <ogra> hey pitti 
[11:04] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[11:08] <sivang> hey pitti , ogra , ajmitch 
[11:34] <ogra> infinity, come over here.-.. quick... then its still sunday evening
[11:34] <sivang> infinity: morning Adam :)
[11:35] <sivang> it's Sun 23:13 here
[11:35] <Lathiat> haha
[11:35] <Lathiat> its mon 5:35 here
[11:35] <ajmitch> infinity: isn't it far too early for people to be up over there?
[11:35] <infinity> 7:30 for me.
[11:35] <infinity> Not that it means anything, I've been up all night.
[11:36] <ajmitch> right, I at least managed to get an early night @ 1AM
[11:37] <infinity> Oh well.  Guess I didn't need them hilighted anyway.
[11:37] <sivang> lol
[11:37] <infinity> It's just trying to save me from myself, I'm sure.
[11:37] <infinity> I had stuff marked "unread" from 8 months ago.
[11:42] <sivang> infinity: this happens to me all the time actually
[12:01] <hughsie> ogra: ping!
[12:02] <ogra> high
[12:02] <sivang> infinity: you in the US ?