[08:39] <pef> hello
[08:56] <pef> Riddell: hello, about unsermake and qtparted, I understand why notice upstream, but not why notice debian maintainer ? their current version (0.4.4) builds fine, the problem is with 0.4.5 release, not yet into Debian
[09:07] <Tm_T> pef: something about helping each other?
[09:09] <pef> Tm_T: if a package is newer in ubuntu, it will be integrated by utnubu team, no ?
[09:13] <Tm_T> yu
[09:16] <pef> Tm_T: so the debian maintainer will have all my corrections to get the package working :)
[09:19] <Tm_T> pef: sounds good to me :)
[09:20] <pef> :] 
[09:20] <Tm_T> they are in our side afterall
[09:42] <pef> mail sent :)
[09:42] <Tm_T> :)
[10:41] <\sh> guys...can somebody try out klibido? I get strange crashes here
[10:41] <\sh> (breezy version)
[10:43] <pef> \sh: what are you doing to have the crash ?
[10:43] <\sh> pef: adding a server, downloading the grouplist, trying to subscribe to groups
[10:43] <pef> downloading grouplist...
[10:44] <Lathiat> seems to run here 
[10:44] <Lathiat> ah ok
[10:44] <\sh> crashing?
[10:45] <pef> slow link, wait :)
[10:47] <Lathiat> working fine here
[10:48] <pef> \sh: no crash
[10:48] <pef> \sh: maybe corrupted grouplist database
[10:48] <\sh> pef: argl
[10:49] <\sh> then our need to check with a normal usenet client :(
[10:53] <\sh> hmmm
[10:53] <\sh> now it's crashing when I delete a server *grmpf*
[10:53] <\sh> think I'll delete my .kde klibido stuff first
[10:54] <Lathiat> heh
[10:55] <\sh> no...again...subscribe to groups -> crash
[10:55] <\sh> but not with knode
[01:03] <Riddell> who wants to test kde 3.5 beta 2 for me?
[01:04] <Tm_T> you mean install and say if it works?
[01:04] <Tm_T> o/ o/
[01:05] <Riddell> yes
[01:05] <Riddell> or say if it installs
[01:06] <Riddell> deb http://kubuntu.org/~jr/archive-kde35beta/ breezy mai
[01:06] <Riddell> deb http://kubuntu.org/~jr/archive-kde35beta/ breezy main
[01:10] <Tm_T> ok I'll let you know
[01:10] <Riddell> thanks
[01:12] <Tm_T> trying upgrade 267 packages, proceeding ->
[01:12] <Tm_T> oh, ubuntu has upgraded lynx :)
[01:13] <Tm_T> just downloading packages take almost an hour
[01:13] <Tm_T> hmm, is it an hour or a hour ?
[01:14] <Riddell> an hour
[01:14] <Riddell> a euopean hour
[01:14] <Riddell> no, it doesn't make sense :)
[01:14] <Tm_T> I thought so
[02:03] <Tm_T> Riddell: installing... looks like all going fine
[02:09] <Tm_T> Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.92-0ubuntu2_all.deb
[02:09] <Tm_T> I'll do dpkg -i to it
[02:10] <Tm_T> ok, then it wen't ok
[02:11] <Tm_T> went
[02:11] <Tm_T> anyway
[02:14] <Riddell> Tm_T: what was the error?
[02:16] <Tm_T> just gave that, dpkg -i to it wen't ok
[02:16] <Tm_T> went
[02:16] <Tm_T> and now I think I got them all installed
[02:17] <Tm_T> kept back: kdeedu kdegames kdepim libkcal2-dev libkcal2a
[02:17] <Riddell> Tm_T: but did it say what the error was at all?
[02:17] <Tm_T> Riddell: in subprocess dpkg etc
[02:17] <Riddell> hmm
[02:18] <Tm_T> dpkg does it sometimes :)
[02:18] <Tm_T> should I run it then?
[02:19] <Riddell> run which?
[02:19] <Riddell> KDE 3.5? yes
[02:19] <Tm_T> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[02:19] <Tm_T> that was it
[02:19] <Riddell> how unuseful of it
[02:21] <Tm_T> yup, those two lines was all what it gave from error, doesn't tell about it at all :p
[02:21] <Tm_T> but I think I reboot, time of it ->
[02:31] <Tm_T> hahha
[02:31] <Tm_T> no X here then
[02:34] <Tm_T> complaining about parse error of xorg.conf
[02:35] <Tm_T> "FontPath" is not a valid keyword in this section.
[02:35] <Tm_T> what's that?
[02:36] <Tm_T> aah, sorry, my mistake
[02:37] <Tm_T> was # in wrong place
[02:37] <Tm_T> =)
[02:37] <Tm_T> ->
[02:40] <Tm_T> ok
[02:40] <Tm_T> artsd crashed immediately
[02:44] <Tm_T> Riddell: ok, what you need to know?
[02:46] <Riddell> Tm_T: that it all installed and is sane
[02:46] <Riddell> arts crashing isn't too unusual :)
[02:46] <Tm_T> true
[02:47] <Tm_T> it crashes all the time :p
[02:47] <Tm_T> but I don't care
[02:47] <Tm_T> amarok does give sound, I'm happy
[02:47] <Tm_T> :)
[02:47] <Tm_T> yup, beta2 working here o/
[02:53] <Riddell> groovy
[02:53] <Tm_T> I like :)
[02:53] <Tm_T> haven't noticed any problems
[02:53] <Tm_T> yet
[02:54] <Tm_T> ok, all packages installed, no problems at all
[02:55] <Tm_T> now I have to install my svn stuff too ->
[03:06] <Riddell> Tm_T: thanks for that
[03:13] <Tm_T> np
[03:13] <Tm_T> thanks for this opportunity :)
[03:56] <Tm_T> Riddell: hmm, when beta2 will be released?
[03:56] <Riddell> Tm_T: tomorrow it seems
[03:56] <Tm_T> ok
[03:57] <Tm_T> so I know advertise it ;)
[04:21] <jjesse> Riddell: I'm back any major changes to any docs for Kubuntu post-release?
[04:22] <Riddell> jjesse: yeah I made some changes
[04:22] <Riddell> and I have an account on the svn server now so I can merge them back to branch
[04:22] <Riddell> then we merge them back to trunk
[04:22] <Riddell> then we go dapper
[04:22] <jjesse> cool, ready to get started again :) updating svn right now
[04:24] <Riddell> well see the kubuntu-docs package for my changes
[04:24] <jjesse> ok will do
[04:25] <Riddell> jjesse: so you plan to keep doing kubuntu docs for dapper?
[04:25] <Riddell> he said hopefully
[04:26] <jjesse> Riddell:  yes i plan on working on kubuntu for all distros
[04:26] <Riddell> ?
[04:26] <jjesse> dapper plus post dapper
[04:26] <Riddell> kubuntu for all distros?
[04:26] <jjesse> i want to keep doing them as long as can i said it wrong
[04:26] <Tm_T> s/distro/release
[04:27] <Tm_T> ;)
[04:27] <Riddell> excellent
[04:27] <jjesse> i think right now i'm the only member on the doc-team working on kubuntu docs
[04:28] <jjesse> everyone else is working on ubuntu 
[04:28] <Riddell> I wonder if they hand out bounties for docs
[04:29] <Riddell> jjesse: I've added a KubuntuDocs BoF to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
[04:29] <Riddell> jjesse: if you could write down any thoughts on what the ideal docs for dapper would look like that would be cool
[04:29] <jjesse> Riddell: i will work on that
[04:29] <Riddell> just bullet points or whatever
[04:29] <jjesse> as i can't come to UbuntuBelowZero
[04:30] <Riddell> leave a space in your calendar for 6 months time, well get you to the next one :)
[04:30] <jjesse> grin thanks
[05:46] <apokryphos> Riddell: beta2 works fine (went home briefly earlier; figured I'd try it out)
[05:46] <apokryphos> but dang debuild gives the evil pic error again :/
[05:47] <Riddell> apokryphos: even arts?
[05:48] <apokryphos> hm, didn't check sound -- it did install fine though
[05:48] <Riddell> apokryphos: could well be one of the missing debian common patches that does that, I'll add those back soonish
[05:48] <Riddell> apokryphos: but arts didn't crash on startup?
[05:48] <apokryphos> nope
[05:48] <Riddell> good good
[05:49] <Tm_T> then it was good random in my case ;)
[05:50] <Tm_T> touch of "home" to windows users =)
[05:56] <apokryphos> Riddell: if you can, let me know if someone builds kdebase successfully on amd64 -- I'll be happy to try any other packs once that's out the way
[05:56] <Riddell> apokryphos: sure
[05:56] <Riddell> apokryphos: have you tried just building it without the debian stuff?
[05:57] <Riddell> plain ./configure && make
[05:57] <apokryphos> nope, can do
[05:58] <seaLne> is it expected after logining out a just dist-upgradede to 3.5 that kdm will continue running but X will die?
[05:59] <Riddell> seaLne: X should restart
[05:59] <seaLne> ah sorry kdm died but ofcourse left its pid file
[06:01] <_Tonio_> Riddell: I have a question for a Linux expert, if you have a second ;) a problem making me crazy !
[06:01] <_Tonio_> Riddell: and first : hello ;)
[06:01] <seaLne> and as others have mentioned arts crashes when starting
[06:02] <seaLne> kd@manson:~$ artsd
[06:02] <seaLne> unix_connect: can't connect to server (unix:/tmp/ksocket-kd/localhost.localdomain-7a8b-4353caae)
[06:05] <Riddell> hi _Tonio_ 
[06:05] <_Tonio_> hi Riddell  ;)
[06:05] <Riddell> _Tonio_: if I see a linux expert I'll put you in touch :)
[06:05] <_Tonio_> haha ! You may have the key, can I ask ?
[06:08] <Riddell> _Tonio_: try me
[06:09] <_Tonio_> Riddell: okay
[06:09] <_Tonio_> on my girlfriend's desktop, fonts size sometimes change while booting
[06:09] <_Tonio_> generally it gets the correct size, but sometimes fonts are really small
[06:10] <Riddell> on the console or on X?
[06:10] <_Tonio_> on X
[06:10] <_Tonio_> I searched in the logs and found this :
[06:10] <_Tonio_> (II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 1280 x 1024
[06:10] <_Tonio_> (==) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (75, 75)
[06:11] <_Tonio_> 75 is too little.... but why does it happen on that machine especially ?
[06:11] <Riddell> it asks the monitor what to set it to, monitors arn't always reliable for a sensible reply
[06:11] <Riddell> I havn't worked out how to turn that off yet although it can't be hard
[06:11] <Tm_T> hmm
[06:11] <Tm_T> ddc ?
[06:12] <_Tonio_> okay but is there a way to force the fonts size value in xorg ?
[06:12] <_Tonio_> I'm not the only one with that problem apparently
[06:12] <Tm_T> _Tonio_: ddc can be disabled, then you can give your own screen sizes
[06:12] <_Tonio_> Yagisan on #ubuntu-motu has exactly the same
[06:12] <Tm_T> like I do
[06:13] <_Tonio_> Tm_T: nice, but what means ddc ?
[06:13] <Tm_T> ddc is "the system" what your hardware & xorg uses to determine stuff
[06:14] <Tm_T> like your monitor info
[06:14] <Tm_T> wiki tell more
[06:14] <_Tonio_> okay... so according to you this is not a problem with the nvidia driver ?
[06:14] <Tm_T> nope
[06:14] <Tm_T> afaik
[06:14] <Tm_T> and even if it is, it can be easily "fix"
[06:14] <_Tonio_> okay..... I'm gonna look on the wiki
[06:15] <Tm_T> _Tonio_: and I mean wikipedia ;)
[06:15] <_Tonio_> Tm_T: so I would just have to make a dpkg-reconfigure xorg-server and put the good values and that's it ?
[06:15] <Tm_T> no
[06:15] <_Tonio_> Tm_T:  okay ;)
[06:15] <Tm_T> you have to add some lines to your xorg.conf
[06:15] <_Tonio_> could you eventually send me yours to get an example ?
[06:16] <Tm_T> section "device" -> add line: Option "ddc" "no"
[06:16] <cmvo> _Tonio_: Hi! How about using the -dpi switch for the X server in kdmrc?
[06:17] <_Tonio_> cmvo: which would change what ???
[06:17] <Tm_T> section "monitor" -> add line:  DisplaySize  370  277 (use your values;))
[06:17] <Tm_T> I do it that way
[06:17] <_Tonio_> and that's all ?
[06:18] <Tm_T> yup
[06:19] <cmvo> _Tonio_: Changes the dpi setting the X server uses. I use it to fore 75 dpi fonts if the server chooses 100 dpi.
[06:19] <Tm_T> cmvo: hmm, that give larger fonts ?
[06:20] <Tm_T> and I have trouble with too large fonts, so I use that technique I explained to have smaller fonts :)
[06:22] <cmvo> Tm_T: I don't like large fonts either and use the -dpi switch since, I think, XFree 4.1.?.
[06:22] <Tm_T> :)
[06:23] <Tm_T> and I use ddc disable to get higher resolutions
[06:24] <cmvo> _Tonio_: Try adding "-dpi 100" to ServerArgsLocal in /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc, should give you large fonts if the server insists on small.
[06:24] <Tm_T> :)
[06:25] <Tm_T> hmm, how I can get my dpi from Konsole?
[06:25] <Tm_T> can't remember
[06:26] <_Tonio_> cmvo: I may try that, cause it seems to be easier, and then if it fails, I'll try Tm_T's technique
[06:26] <Tm_T> :)
[06:29] <cmvo> Tm_T: If you use startx, the setting is in /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc.
[06:33] <cmvo> Tm_T: Even "startx -- -dpi 75" works for testing
[06:33] <_Tonio_> cmvo: I'll try this, thanks a lot for the info
[06:34] <cmvo> _Tonio_: You're welcome :-) Hope it works for you.
[06:37] <cmvo> But I didn't mean to clutter the -devel channel with configuration stuff :-) I just happended to come across the question.
[06:38] <cmvo> I acually wanted to ask how the GUI apps are configured to expect the user password and not the root password?
[06:38] <cmvo> Is this done in the PAM settings or by a source patch?
[06:39] <Tm_T> cmvo: I know, but I just boot my pc to X ;)
[06:39] <Tm_T> cmvo: but I mean how I can get the dpi information
[06:41] <_Tonio_> cmvo: I already asked elsewhere without any success before asking here. I know configuration problems isn't the purpose here ;)
[06:41] <cmvo> Tm_T: Which dpi information? What the X server currently uses?
[06:41] <Tm_T> yup
[06:42] <Tm_T> actually, I can count it myself :o
[06:42] <Tm_T> :(
[06:42] <_Tonio_> cmvo: for root launching, I personnaly do that by patching the .dektop file in the sources, adding "kdesu" to the launch command....
[06:42] <_Tonio_> cmvo: I don't know how it works for gnome...
[06:43] <cmvo> _Tonio_: Thats why I've come here too, just don't want to anger anybody.
[06:47] <cmvo> Tm_T: Hm, never needed the setting info myself before, but the should be a small utility somewhere. Just can't find one at the moment, at least among the programs starting with x...
[06:53] <cmvo> _Tonio_: Thanks, I take a look a the .desktop files.
[06:54] <_Tonio_> no pb ;)
[06:55] <pef> \sh_away: I'm thinking about updating klibido to a newer upstream release
[06:56] <_Tonio_> pef: I already tried, but there is something like a bug....
[06:57] <_Tonio_> pef: I already sent an email to the upstream and whe're currently searching.
[06:57] <_Tonio_> but well, if you can find by yourself, that would be perfect ;)
[06:58] <pef> _Tonio_: if you can tell me more about the bug, why not ;)
[06:58] <_Tonio_> hum let me check for the email
[06:58] <_Tonio_> yes that's it..... there is a file that is "not found", but present....
[06:59] <_Tonio_> I can forward you the email, maybe
[06:59] <pef> _Tonio_: loic at dev dot erodia dot net please 
[07:00] <_Tonio_> okay
[07:01] <_Tonio_> the attachment is missing, but you may have enough informations with just the email...
[07:03] <pef> ok :] 
[07:03] <_Tonio_> pef: mail gone
[07:04] <pef> _Tonio_: je l'ai ;)
[07:05] <_Tonio_> pef: According to what I remember, compilation works, but dpkg-buildpackage, debuild don't work
[07:05] <_Tonio_> pef: french ?
[07:05] <pef> yep
[07:05] <_Tonio_> ah oki ;) ben bonne reception alors ;)
[07:30] <cmvo> Tm_T: Try KInfoCenter in X-Server is lists the resolution.
[07:37] <Tm_T> cmvo: yu
[07:37] <Tm_T> but I said "in konsole" ;)
[07:38] <Tm_T> but it doesn't matter, I can count it myself actually
[07:39] <Lathiat> hrm
[07:39] <Lathiat> if i try and start kwalletmanager it just does nothing
[07:39] <Lathiat> it just returns
[07:39] <Lathiat> oh i see, its in the systray
[07:39] <Lathiat> thats kinda confusing since its a menu item
[07:40] <cmvo> Tm_T: Hm, I think I didn't see your initial question. I just came across KInfoCenter while searching for something else :-)
[07:57] <apokryphos> Riddell: make error; http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/396581 
[07:57] <apokryphos> kind of wondering what "No rule to make..." errors mean; they pop up often
[07:58] <Tm_T> cmvo: :)
[07:58] <Riddell> it means it's expecting to find either that file or a Makefile rule to create that file
[07:59] <Riddell> it's quite muddled if it's expecting kbookmarknotifier.h in that directory
[08:00] <apokryphos> Riddell: are these things down to bad code, or down to your system state?
[08:07] <pef> have to go, bye !
[08:08] <Riddell> apokryphos: randomness of automake?
[08:09] <apokryphos> it's not being used for kde 4, is it? Thank God =)
[08:11] <Riddell> no it's not
[08:11] <apokryphos> :-O
[08:24] <_Sime> question: is hwdata the standard hardware database (think pci ids) for kubuntu?
[08:25] <_Sime> i'm getting some guidance stuff working on my newly installed breezy installation.
[08:26] <Riddell> hwdata is installed as default
[08:26] <Riddell> guidance working is always good
[08:28] <_Sime> cool, i'm working on displayconfig. It needs to scan the pci bus and work out what kind of gfx card you've got. Including things like dualhead cards.
[08:28] <Riddell> ah, sime must be simon :)
[08:29] <Riddell> can you use hal for that?
[08:29] <_Sime> yes, and in theory hal should do it.
[08:29] <_Sime> but
[08:30] <_Sime> on my machine at least HAL doesn't identify the second head on my gfx card.
[08:30] <_Sime> (the second head should show up as an extra gfx card on the pci bus)
[08:30] <_Sime> so I think I'm still stuck with doing it manually.
[08:30] <_Sime> (not hard)
[08:31] <Riddell> right
[08:31] <_Sime> I take it that guidance was stable enough for 5.10. :-)
[08:33] <Riddell> well it's in main so it must be :)
[08:33] <Riddell> main problem actually is that it doesn't fit on 1024 screen when using systemsettings
[08:34] <Riddell> only the user module and only just, other modules are a lot worse
[08:35] <_Sime> sure?
[08:35] <_Sime> system services should be ok.
[08:35] <_Sime> looks ok here.
[08:36] <Riddell> sorry, I ment other kcontrol modules are worse.  other guidance modules are fine
[08:36] <_Sime> users & groups might be too tall though....
[08:37] <_Sime> I also notice that system settings has trouble with admin'ed modules. If you go to admin mode in a module, then go to another module, and THEN go back to your admin'ed moudle...
[08:38] <_Sime> then you get a message "This configuration section is already opened in system settings".
[08:39] <Riddell> yeah, I need to look into that
[10:00] <Riddell> \sh meet _Sime, pykde dude
[10:00] <Riddell> _Sime: are you the official maintainer of pykde these days?
[10:00] <\sh> Oh :) nice :) Hi _Sime 
[10:00] <_Sime> hey, and don't forget I'm also the guy that makes the mess of kdebindings. ;-)
[10:01] <\sh> _Sime: ROCK :)
[10:01] <_Sime> hi \sh
[10:02] <\sh> _Sime: nice to meet you :)
[10:02] <Riddell> _Sime: \sh did a great job of packaging pyqt and pykde for breezy
[10:02] <_Sime> Riddell: I try to make sure that KDE ships with working Python+KDE bindings each time.
[10:02] <Riddell> _Sime: is KDE 3.5 going to?
[10:03] <_Sime> yeah, I'm using them right now.
[10:03] <Riddell> winderful :)
[10:03] <Riddell> wonderful
[10:03] <\sh> _Sime: i just tryed to fix the issue with kconfigskeleton...
[10:03] <_Sime> it's a bit of a mess since PyQt and PyKDE and SIP run on thier own schedules which don't match KDEs.
[10:04] <_Sime> especially w.r.t. bin-compat.
[10:04] <\sh> _Sime: and I managed to catch up with a patch from the pykde ml from 2004..
[10:04] <_Sime> \sh: i'm not familiar with kconfigskeleton
[10:05] <\sh> _Sime: it's the nice kconfigXT stuff of kde..which makes config dialogs etc. quite easy...didn't work...and I think it won't work in the latest snapshots from a couple of days before
[10:05] <_Sime> oh,
[10:06] <\sh> _Sime: are you even the maintainer of the debian packages?
[10:06] <_Sime> nope
[10:07] <_Sime> I generally try to make sure that Mandriva has decent packages, though
[10:07] <\sh> sad..cause I send the patches I included to debian and even to gentoo..nobody is including them...
[10:07] <_Sime> but I just stepped over kubuntu. :)
[10:07] <\sh> ha..I just forget the rpm universe
[10:07] <\sh> forgot even
[10:08] <_Sime> well, I was after a distro that followed KDE most closely, and also which kind of shared what I wanted to see in a distro.
[10:11] <Riddell> _Sime: what do you want to see in a distro?
[10:12] <_Sime> KDE as primary desktop. #1.
[10:12] <_Sime> and the goal of integrating KDE with the rest of the system to create the best desktop OS possible
[10:13] <_Sime> it is difficult to do this in KDE itself, since it tries to be for all unix-like platforms
[10:14] <_Sime> while I'm of the opinion of first focusing on one (linux) and when that is perfect, worrying about the rest. :)
[10:14] <\sh> _Sime: welcome to kubuntu
[10:15] <_Sime> :)
[10:15] <Riddell> _Sime: got any other future plans for guidance?  other modules you think should be in there?
[10:16] <_Sime> I would like to know what you guys want... but since you asked...
[10:16] <\sh> _Sime: it would be nice, to have pykde maitained in kde upstream directly :)
[10:16] <_Sime> a decent cron editor thingy would be nice, something that actually showed what was going to happen when...
[10:17] <Riddell> yes, definatly
[10:17] <_Sime> ... a decent way of selecting a keyboard and keyboard settings. (I want to choose my keyboard from a _picture_, not guessing if I have US international or whatever)
[10:18] <\sh> _Sime: well...make it kde conform and fix some issues between c++ and python where python has problems...
[10:18] <_Sime> understandable compose key support would be good to. Right now it is not obvious how you configure it.
[10:18] <\sh> call by ref inside a function call
[10:19] <_Sime> \sh: it would be nice if Jim Bublitz could open development more
[10:20] <_Sime> \sh: then there is also the issue of commercial licensing.
[10:20] <Riddell> Bublitz is pyqt dude?
[10:20] <_Sime> \sh: Jim is now the address to go to for a commerical license of PyKDE.
[10:20] <_Sime> Riddell: yes
[10:20] <\sh> _Sime: not for pykde
[10:20] <_Sime> no
[10:20] <_Sime> Riddell: PyKDE.
[10:20] <Riddell> I'm confused
[10:20] <\sh> Riddell: hmmm....parts of kde are gpl, aren't they?
[10:20] <_Sime> Riddell: SIP and PyQt are done by Phil Thompson at Riverbank computing
[10:21] <Riddell> right
[10:21] <_Sime> Riddell: PyKDE is based on PyQt though.
[10:21] <Riddell> of course
[10:21] <_Sime> PyKDE runs on the LGPL KDE libs.
[10:21] <\sh> so the interfaces from some things are GPL as well, or are all library interfaces lgpl?
[10:21] <Riddell> \sh: all libraries are lgpl
[10:21] <_Sime> that is standard KDE policy, yes
[10:21] <_Sime> libs => LGPL
[10:22] <Riddell> so this Jim guy makes pykde and sells it?
[10:22] <\sh> _Sime: isn't it right now something like gpl licensed this pykde?
[10:22] <_Sime> I don't know if he has actually sold it to anyone yet.
[10:22] <_Sime> but in theory, yes
[10:22] <Riddell> but I thought _Sime looked after pykde
[10:22] <_Sime> pykde is also published under the GPL.
[10:23] <_Sime> Jim is the copyright holder though.
[10:23] <\sh> so lets fork it and make it work better ;)
[10:23] <_Sime> \sh: but the leaves the issue of commerical licensing.
[10:24] <_Sime> s/the/that/
[10:24] <Riddell> _Sime: so what do you do if he makes pykde?
[10:24] <\sh> but it's open for development...and if we fork it and leave under gpl it's ok
[10:25] <_Sime> Riddell: maintian the copy in KDE SVN, write stuff on PyKDE, give talks etc etc
[10:25] <_Sime> \sh: yes, but a commerical company can't buy a non-GPL license from anyone.
[10:25] <_Sime> i know that this is a concern for Eve at least.
[10:25] <\sh> _Sime: why buying a license? 
[10:26] <\sh> _Sime: I'm thinking of including a fork to kde
[10:26] <Riddell> who's Eve?
[10:26] <_Sime> Riddell: I mean Eve whatshersname from KDE eV.
[10:26] <Riddell> Eva
[10:26] <_Sime> my bad.
[10:26] <Riddell> Eva wants a commercial pykde?
[10:26] <\sh> kde e.v. is non-commercial
[10:27] <_Sime> She once asked me a Jim if the option existed for companies to get a closed souce license for PyKDE etc.
[10:27] <_Sime> right now you can use KDE in a closed source app iff you have a Qt license from TrollTech.
[10:27] <\sh> u can link against the lib
[10:28] <Riddell> right
[10:28] <Riddell> _Sime: is pykde extensions likely to go into SVN?
[10:28] <Tonio-> Riddell: I think there is a little bug with konqueror and kde 3.4.3 with ftp.
[10:29] <_Sime> Riddell: that is certainly possible. is there demand? I'm guessing yes.
[10:30] <\sh> _Sime: if kde have it (the gpl version) in svn...kde community + others can improve and bugfix the pykde stuff
[10:30] <_Sime> \sh: then you have a GPL open source PyKDE version + a closed source version (Jim) that is different.
[10:31] <_Sime> \sh: that's bad.
[10:31] <_Sime> \sh: besides, it might be possible to get Jim to open PyKDE up more.
[10:31] <\sh> _Sime: why? if ours is working much better, he can forget about selling ;)
[10:31] <_Sime> \sh: PyQt isn't a real problem.
[10:32] <\sh> _Sime: or he is doing a dual license like trolltech
[10:32] <\sh> _Sime: cause right now the compatiblity of pykde is more then a mess
[10:32] <_Sime> \sh: as I said. I don't think Jim is making any money off PyKDE, so he might be happy to LGPL development... dunno
[10:33] <_Sime> \sh: you can get a close source license for PyKDE from Jim on similar terms as PyQt.
[10:34] <\sh> _Sime: I don't want to have a closed source license, i want to have it free to have a better way to fix it...right now, we're fixing stuff which could be fixed already
[10:34] <Riddell> Tonio-: what's up?
[10:34] <Tonio-> simple test
[10:34] <Tonio-> ftp://aude.planetemu.net
[10:34] <_Sime> \sh: it doesn't have to close source, just closed source friendly, like KDE libs (LGPL)
[10:34] <Tonio-> login : aude
[10:35] <Tonio-> password : test
[10:35] <Tonio-> you don't see any file
[10:35] <Tonio-> go with ftp in the shell and that works perfectly.... kbear also works....
[10:35] <Tonio-> but it doesn't cause problems with all servers, so I don't know if it is a konqueror bug, or a proftpd bug
[10:35] <\sh> _Sime: so...we can do whatever we want..send patches upstream to jim, if he doesn't want to include them, it's his decision...so why is kde not including it into svn (i think it's in kdebindings module already)
[10:36] <Tonio-> maybe the proftpd package is a bit crappy...
[10:36] <_Sime> \sh: patches you mean?
[10:36] <Tonio-> Riddell: password isn't test, but "friend"
[10:37] <Tonio-> ftp://aude:friend@aude.planetemu.net
[10:37] <\sh> _Sime: the whole source and then we can patch it directly in kde svn, make it compatible with latest kde development and send the patches upstream to jim
[10:37] <_Sime> \sh: that sounds like an option.
[10:38] <\sh> _Sime: because latest snapshot only works correctly with 3.4.2 (in some areas is segfaulting badly), 3.4.3 and 3.5 will be supported (as I read his announcement correctly) in one of the next releases...(not the upcoming one)
[10:38] <_Sime> \sh: Jim is very busy.
[10:39] <Tonio-> Riddell: the remote ftp server is a kubuntu fresh install with proftpd all by default...
[10:39] <_Sime> \sh: KDE 4 is a good time to change things.
[10:39] <_Sime> \sh: Jim will probably recreate the PyKDE bindings from scratch. Maybe we could persuade him to use KDE SVN + LGPL.
[10:39] <Riddell> Tonio-: hmm yes
[10:39] <_Sime> \sh: just open it right up.
[10:39] <Riddell> Tonio-: it's working on one of my servers
[10:40] <Riddell> (not a kubuntu one)
[10:40] <Tonio-> with my debian server + proftpd it works like a charm......
[10:40] <_Sime> \sh: binary compatibility is also an issue.
[10:40] <Tonio-> Riddell: so I assume a problem with the proftpd package maybe.....
[10:41] <\sh> _Sime: well...I can raise this issue on the pykde ml
[10:41] <\sh> _Sime: I think more people are interessted to see a community driven development of pykde in kde svn
[10:41] <Tonio-> Riddell: listing works with certain clients but not all.... maybe it requires LIST -La instead of LIST or NLST.... A bug like that....
[10:42] <_Sime> \sh: yeah, agreed.  Jim does a good job. But he just doesn't have the time
[10:42] <\sh> _Sime: yepp...because of this he should leave it to the people who have the time
[10:42] <\sh> (or actually thinking they have the time)
[10:42] <_Sime> \sh: another option is to create a new PyKDE using PyQt+SIP, but without Jim's support.
[10:43] <\sh> _Sime: no option...because there are apps which are relying on that API
[10:43] <_Sime> \sh: at the same time I don't want to piss the guy off...
[10:43] <_Sime> \sh: the PyKDE api?
[10:43] <_Sime> \sh: if we did that for KDE 4, it wouldn't be an issue.
[10:44] <_Sime> \sh: besides we could still aim for compatibility.
[10:45] <_Sime> \sh: yet another option is using the SMOKE library in KDE 4 for Python as well.
[10:45] <_Sime> \sh: one guy on the bindings list has been playing around with other ways of binding Qt/KDE for Python.
[10:45] <\sh> _Sime: is it near the kde api, just like pykde?
[10:46] <_Sime> \sh: but yeah, Smoke would be more work.
[10:46] <_Sime> \sh: what do you mean?
[10:49] <\sh> _Sime: that the object names etc. are just as close to the kde c++ class names?
[10:50] <_Sime> \sh: yes
[10:51] <\sh> _Sime: hmm..need to have a look :) 
[10:51] <\sh> _Sime: do u have a pointer?
[10:52] <_Sime> \sh: are you talking about method names in PyKDE or Smoke?
[10:52] <\sh> _Sime: smoke...want to have a look at it
[10:54] <_Sime> \sh: smoke is in the KDE SVN, kdebindings module
[10:55] <Riddell> \sh: smoke is used by the ruby bindings
[10:57] <\sh> ah
[11:49] <Riddell> _Sime: feel free to add stuff to the bottom of this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuSystemTools
[11:49] <Riddell> (also that might well be bountyable for anyone interested)
[11:56] <Tm_T> :)
[11:56] <Tm_T> good night comrades
[11:57] <Riddell> sleep tight
[11:57] <apokryphos> don't let the bed-bugs bite
[11:57] <Riddell> or the computer bugs
[11:58] <apokryphos> not as easy