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| jsgotangco | hi robitaille, Burgundavia | 07:48 |
|---|---|---|
| Madpilot | hi everyone | 07:49 |
| Madpilot | robitaille: you going to be out on the protest lines tomorrow morning? | 07:49 |
| jsgotangco | protest? | 07:49 |
| jsgotangco | for what? | 07:49 |
| Madpilot | our provicial gov't has tried to impose a contract on the province's teachers, and removed various collective bargaining rights | 07:50 |
| Madpilot | the rest of the labour movement is going to shut down the city tomorrow to remind the gov't who actually does the work in this province | 07:51 |
| jsgotangco | wow | 07:51 |
| Madpilot | http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/10/11/strike-bc-teachers051011.html | 07:52 |
| Madpilot | http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=bc_bc-fed-teachers20051014 | 07:52 |
| Madpilot | I've spent most of my weekend organizing our union local's actions for tomorrow... I'm tired, and the blasted week hasn't even really started! | 07:53 |
| jsgotangco | ok so victoria will be closed for business today... | 07:53 |
| Madpilot | tomorrow, locally, but yes, pretty much | 07:54 |
| jsgotangco | rob^, congratulations! | 09:29 |
| rob^ | ? | 09:35 |
| jsgotangco | http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2005101401026OPDT | 09:36 |
| jsgotangco | "Another thing that stands out is the excellent onboard documentation, particulrly the Getting Started guide. Every tried getting Java running in Firefox in Fedora? I have, and even when I would find decent instructions out on a third-party site, I would still not have Java working. For someone who needs his local radar to go into an animated loop on Noaa.gov, this was torture." | 09:37 |
| rob^ | oh yeah | 09:37 |
| rob^ | thanks | 09:37 |
| rob^ | :) | 09:38 |
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| Kamping_Kaiser | i asked on wed/thurs last week if anyone knew when the next meeting was but there wasnt any clear idea. is there a meeting tomorrow? or is that rumor? | 02:33 |
| mdke | friday | 02:50 |
| mdke | see DocteamMeetingAgenda | 02:50 |
| mdke | thanks for your patience in hanging around btw Kamping_Kaiser | 02:50 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | thats ok. ill make sure teh day[night] is free :) | 02:52 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | thanks mdke :) its in teh calander :D | 02:58 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | heh. i just got the the 'we need a meeting thread' :| sorry for noise | 03:11 |
| mdke | :) | 03:11 |
| mdke | couple of days lag on your email? | 03:11 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | yeh. last read thursday, started today with 700 messages+ :| | 03:12 |
| mdke | gd luck | 03:13 |
| jjesse | grin i had the same problem when i got back on saturday | 03:14 |
| jjesse | just finished all my messages :) | 03:14 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol wd | 03:14 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | :P | 03:14 |
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| jbailey | mdke: Heya, sorry. | 05:07 |
| jbailey | mdke: Went offline for the weekend. | 05:07 |
| mdke | jbailey, hi, np | 05:09 |
| mdke | mhz_cooking, ping | 05:25 |
| mdke | mhz_cooking, i don't understand your recent email, can you clarify here? | 05:25 |
| mhz | mdke: pong | 05:30 |
| mdke | hi | 05:30 |
| mdke | what's up? | 05:30 |
| mhz | "recnet email" i have just responded another one. | 05:31 |
| mdke | ok | 05:31 |
| mdke | I think that is the one I'm talking about | 05:31 |
| mhz | "recnet email" i have just responded another on? | 05:32 |
| mhz | "recnet email" i have just responded another on? | 05:32 |
| mhz | sorry | 05:32 |
| mdke | the one I'm talking about starts "Matthew East" | 05:32 |
| mhz | mdke: anything particular you want me to clarify on? | 05:32 |
| mdke | yes lots | 05:32 |
| mhz | hehehe | 05:32 |
| === mhz reading ir | ||
| === mhz reading it | ||
| mdke | mhz, ok first of all, are you suggesting that subpages are a good idea, or not | 05:33 |
| mhz | ohhh, that. | 05:33 |
| mdke | second, are you suggesting that CamcelCase is a good idea, or not? | 05:34 |
| mdke | third, what do you mean by "sugar on top"? | 05:34 |
| mdke | fourth, what did I do to piss you off? | 05:34 |
| mdke | i didn't really understand your message in the context of the subject of that thread (wiki-forum relationship) | 05:36 |
| mdke | mhz, still here? | 05:36 |
| mhz | /subpages are good if people involved on using them (writing and reading) are aware that there's some rules to implement them. Ideally, a wiki works 100% perfectly if it keeps horizontal layout (no subpages), because then everyone can just think of a page name and it is very likely that page actually exists. Example of diff: EdubuntuDhcpdSetUp is very diff to DHCPServerSetUp in terms of linking pages while you write and remembering. | 05:37 |
| mhz | mdke: sorry I take so long to respond but I am at a keyboard I am not used to and also english is not my native one :) | 05:38 |
| mdke | no problem | 05:38 |
| === mhz will respond to everything because he believes this is a very important issue, esp. at this point where docing is really needed. | ||
| mdke | thanks | 05:39 |
| mhz | piss me off? nop, not at all! I thought I was pissing people off by insisting on this matter :D lol | 05:39 |
| mdke | it was the "sugar on top" thing that made me think you were angry. And the "Matthew East" at the beginning of your email :) | 05:40 |
| mdke | glad to hear you're not | 05:40 |
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| mhz | mdke: sugar on top, in terms of Please be rude if you need to, as long as I get to understand | 05:40 |
| mhz | and the Matthew East, just because I realized there were two Mats. | 05:41 |
| mhz | :) | 05:41 |
| mhz | now, as for the 2nd question... | 05:42 |
| mdke | ah ok | 05:42 |
| mhz | CamelCase is the most simple way to generate links. Also, if we get used to CamelCase, when we are writing, we'll get more chances to autcreate links instead of using [] symbols | 05:43 |
| mhz | CamelCase is simple and yet extremely effective | 05:43 |
| mhz | IF we use them on regular basis. | 05:43 |
| mdke | ok so you like CamelCase | 05:44 |
| mdke | and you don't like subpages | 05:44 |
| mdke | i have the reverse opinion, at least for documentation. | 05:45 |
| mhz | My perception about the "chaos" is that I have seen more than a couple of pages that are very very similar in content but with names that either are hard to remember or have [] on them. So if I needed to link them from any page, I would always have to come back and make sure of the name. | 05:45 |
| mdke | pages that are very very similar in content really shouldn't exist, they should be merged into one page | 05:46 |
| mdke | but yeah, I take your point about easy-to-remember names | 05:46 |
| mhz | Documentation is clearer if it has subpages, imho, when we talk about "master documentation" and not "100% public" wikis. | 05:47 |
| mhz | MoinMaster is lot diff from MoinWiki | 05:47 |
| mdke | how about question 4? | 05:48 |
| mdke | oh no you did that one | 05:48 |
| mhz | Basically, if there were agreement on Dhcp or DHCP, or Ltsp or LTSP, etc., then we'd be more organized. Also, if we knew when we can use /subpage and when we should choose PageName, we'd also have more standarized wiki docs | 05:48 |
| mdke | that is pretty much impossible, there is no right answer about "when" to use subpages and so on, especially because anyone can edit the wiki | 05:49 |
| mhz | that's my point | 05:49 |
| mhz | What if... | 05:49 |
| mhz | we had at least some simple restrictions: | 05:50 |
| mhz | a) You want to edit a page? Excellent! Please register and commit to these simple guidelines. | 05:50 |
| mdke | we may go that way in the future. However, that is not my decision to take and I have grave doubts about it | 05:50 |
| mhz | b) Please use CamelCase on regular Basis | 05:51 |
| mhz | c) Please use Acronyms in a CamelCase fashion | 05:51 |
| mdke | mhz, the general view of the docteam members who work on the wiki is that camelcase is not useful for documentation | 05:51 |
| mhz | why not? | 05:51 |
| mdke | because it is difficult to read, and people looking for help do not care about making the life of the wiki editors easier. The focus is on usability | 05:52 |
| mdke | c.f. wikipedia | 05:52 |
| mhz | I have worked close to one Chilean "librarian" of WikiPedia. Yes usability is an issue but they still have librarians to admin docs :) | 05:54 |
| mdke | indeed | 05:54 |
| mdke | Camelcase is simply difficult to read | 05:55 |
| mdke | anyhow, i don't want to get into an extended discussion on this because everyone has different opinions | 05:55 |
| mhz | people looking for help can use any search method and still get to a page because Moin results are CaSe independant | 05:55 |
| mdke | yes | 05:56 |
| mdke | but when they get there, it is harder to read. Also, if they are searching by EYE, it is harder for them | 05:56 |
| mhz | yes, indeed | 05:56 |
| mhz | Hence I mentioned in my email that unfortunately, is a pity people are not used to wikis. IMHO, a wiki is the fastes way to generate and organize docs. I does have its limitations but if one understands how to bypass them, then it is a real powerfull resource. | 05:58 |
| mdke | i love wikis | 05:58 |
| mdke | have you seen the edubuntu website? you'd like it | 05:58 |
| mhz | Actually, I have used Moin for CMS, Address Book, Calendar, ToDo, Quotation maker, Version Controling, Translation platform, News, etc. | 05:59 |
| mdke | you are obsessed! | 05:59 |
| mhz | edubuntu? Yes, I have seen it and already loved it | 05:59 |
| mhz | LOL | 05:59 |
| mhz | I used to actively participate in Moin gang (I am big fan of simplicity when it comes to power) | 06:00 |
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| mhz | mdke: it may logically sound "obsession", i agree. But the fact is that Moin does have a flexibility that may get people confused or may get people to just refuse it. | 06:01 |
| mdke | i like Moin, it's good | 06:01 |
| mhz | I have tried at least 5 diff wikis, and still moin beats them | 06:02 |
| mhz | however, I do agree that when it comes to have official documentation, then either have a "freeze" ACL for some pages or just use another tool | 06:02 |
| mdke | we use html | 06:03 |
| mhz | MoinMoin gang is using moinmaster for a frozen or offcial /data dir and moinmoin for regular basis. | 06:03 |
| mdke | yes | 06:03 |
| mhz | I have "ported" Moin to Html with no bigger issues. | 06:07 |
| mhz | (moin2html does it all) | 06:07 |
| mhz | :) | 06:07 |
| mhz | Some guys are even generating PDF from moin pages | 06:07 |
| mhz | and they all seem to be happy | 06:08 |
| mhz | :) | 06:08 |
| mdke | sure | 06:08 |
| mdke | but right now docbook is the best place for us to go | 06:09 |
| mdke | we're not going to move to moin | 06:09 |
| mhz | mdke: myabe my humble point here is taht if we have this tool (moin) and we can get the most out of it, why not just give it a try? | 06:09 |
| mdke | that is not good enough I'm afraid | 06:10 |
| mhz | mdke: ok | 06:10 |
| mdke | we can't just change the way we work to just give things a try | 06:10 |
| mdke | docbook is also a tool we have | 06:10 |
| mhz | i absolutely agree, I am not asking to "move". | 06:10 |
| mdke | ah | 06:11 |
| mhz | I am saying, that is we have some basic "WikiConduct" or something, and we wisely combine moin power with docbook, we may end up having a gtreater work | 06:11 |
| mhz | that is = that if | 06:12 |
| mdke | well i agree with having a wikiconduct, although not with what you think wikiconduct should be. But I am not clear on your proposal for "combining" the two | 06:13 |
| mdke | perhaps you can clarify in an email proposal | 06:13 |
| mhz | okidoki | 06:14 |
| mhz | mdke: thx for your time and patience :D | 06:15 |
| mdke | np | 06:15 |
| mdke | thank you | 06:15 |
| mhz | mdke: any WikiLibrarianTeam like? | 06:15 |
| mdke | WikiTeam | 06:15 |
| mhz | duh! | 06:15 |
| mhz | i had no idea | 06:16 |
| mhz | cool | 06:16 |
| mdke | (gone) | 06:33 |
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| apokryphos | many of the links on doc.ubuntu.com aren't working | 12:03 |
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