[01:22] <Diablo-D3> hey all
[01:22] <Diablo-D3> is the branch for breezy+1 open yet?
[01:22] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[01:22] <LaserJock> I heard Tuesday, but I dont' know
[01:23] <Diablo-D3> blargh
[01:23] <tseng> make a sid chroot
[01:23] <Diablo-D3> by updates, I meant ones that wernt from sid ;)
[01:23] <Diablo-D3> sid is still soooo behind
[01:24] <tseng> you dont need to use the chroot
[01:24] <Kyral> but thier VLC works ;P
[01:24] <tseng> just update it daily
[01:24] <tseng> for your fix
[01:24] <Diablo-D3> I dont use vlc
[01:24] <Diablo-D3> tseng: lol
[01:24] <LaserJock> yeah, I keep apt-get update but there is nothing. I am starting to get withdrawl symptoms ;-)
[01:24] <Diablo-D3> yargh, backports is dead
[01:24] <tseng> you could also all switch to gentoo
[01:24] <Diablo-D3> tseng: lol gentoo
[01:24] <tseng> updating daily is FUN
[01:24] <Diablo-D3> tseng: funroll-loops.org
[01:24] <tseng> figuring out how to fix it
[01:24] <tseng> even more fun
[01:25] <Kyral> Thats for saying I should use Gentoo ;P
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> I wonder if breezy has a breezy-updates distro
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> er source
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> or whatever
[01:25] <tseng> yes
[01:25] <Nafallo> repo :-)
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> yes, repo
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> low caffiene
[01:26] <tseng> mmm caffeine
[01:26] <Nafallo> hmm
[01:26] <Nafallo> I wonder when I last drank something with caffeine in it :-P
[01:26] <Kyral> Anyone know how to use Apt-Spy in Ubuntu?
[01:26] <Kyral> its only grabbing Debian mirrors...
[01:27] <Diablo-D3> we dont need apt-spy
[01:27] <Diablo-D3> we dont have half a billion mirrors
[01:27] <Kyral> lol
[01:27] <Nafallo> hmm
[01:27] <Nafallo> maybe I should remove dapper from my sources.list :-P
[01:27] <Kyral> I'm just waiting until my college syncs its Ubuntu Mirror back to Breezy
[01:27] <Kyral> after some idiot wiped it out ;P
[01:27] <Diablo-D3> why do you even use your local mirror?
[01:28] <Diablo-D3> use us.archives.ubuntu.com or whatever
[01:28] <Kyral> Because its on campus
[01:28] <Kyral> within the LAN
[01:28] <Diablo-D3> bleh
[01:28] <Diablo-D3> 2 updated packages
[01:28] <Diablo-D3> how sad.
[01:28] <Kyral> hence hyper quick speeds ;P
[01:28] <Diablo-D3> blah 2 worthless updates
[01:28] <Diablo-D3> just a version number bump
[01:28] <Kyral> I should recompile my kernel again...
[01:29] <Nafallo> looks like us.archive.ubuntu.com is still in England.
[01:29] <Kyral> IPTables is kinda gonky
[01:29] <crimsun> it's necessary for smooth upgrades
[01:29] <Diablo-D3> lol
[01:29] <Diablo-D3> crimsun: Yeah I know
[01:29] <Diablo-D3> DAMNIT I NEED MORE UNSTABLE!
[01:29] <Kyral> crimsun, didja look at the VLC data I sent you?
[01:30] <crimsun> Kyral: I'm getting around to it; I know there's a possible fix from upstream svn
[01:30] <Kyral> okay
[01:30] <crimsun> trying to square away my own Breezy system atm
[01:30] <Kyral> Xine is working for now...
[01:30] <Kyral> I'm trying to make the most streamlined kernel I can for my system ;P
[01:31] <Diablo-D3> actually
[01:31] <Diablo-D3> all I want is a working lsm-realtime module
[01:32] <Nafallo> wow.
[01:32] <Nafallo> we have an avahi team :-P
[01:32] <Diablo-D3> a what who what now?
[01:32] <Nafallo> rock :-)
[01:33] <crimsun> isn't Lathiat the upstream? ;-)
[01:33] <Nafallo> yes? :-)
[01:33] <sivang> Nafallo: what's avahi ?
[01:34] <Diablo-D3> whats breezy+1 called again?
[01:34] <crimsun> dapper
[01:34] <Nafallo> sivang: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
[01:34] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:34] <Diablo-D3> oh yeah, thats right
[01:34] <Nafallo> dapper drake :-)
[01:34] <Diablo-D3> in the mean time
[01:35] <tseng>  please dont do that in here
[01:36] <Diablo-D3> I wish I could edit what the chorus says
[01:36] <Diablo-D3> "Ubuntu! Ubuntu! Ubuntuuuu Liiiinuuuuuuxxxxx!"
[01:36] <Diablo-D3> tseng: shush, I was setting up the stage for a joke.
[01:37] <tseng> you can make jokes after you make useful contributions
[01:37] <tseng> thats my rule
[01:37] <ogra> :)
[01:37] <Diablo-D3> filing bugs are useful cotnrubtions.
[01:37] <tseng> ogra lives!
[01:37] <ogra> sure
[01:38] <Diablo-D3> and converting the known universe to ubuntu is a useful contribution too
[01:38] <ogra> i cared for \sh the whole weekend and relaxed a bit :)
[01:38] <tseng> great
[01:39] <Diablo-D3> I'm like a zambatou to gentoo's cavalry
[01:39] <tseng> sigh
[01:39] <Diablo-D3> or a orbital bombardment to redhat's resistance
[01:45] <Kyral> Kernel recompile GO
[01:45] <Diablo-D3> <kernel recompile GET>
[01:46] <Kyral> Anyone know if enabling the "Use 4kb kernel stacks instead of 8kb" option has any performance impact?
[01:46] <Diablo-D3> it increases performance
[01:46] <Kyral> niiiic
[01:46] <Kyral> e
[01:46] <Diablo-D3> not as much as you think
[01:46] <Kyral> I don't think I have any modules...
[01:46] <Diablo-D3> it allows the kernel to only allocate one memory block for the stack instead of 2.
[01:47] <Diablo-D3> after extended periods of time, memory sometimes becomes so fragmented that finding 2 continuous blocks of memory is hard
[01:47] <Kyral> like if you don't reboot for a while
[01:47] <Diablo-D3> yeah
[01:47] <Diablo-D3> or you just trash memory a lot
[01:47] <Kyral> which is good because my computer usually goes weeks without a reboot
[01:48] <Diablo-D3> you usually see this after months
[01:48] <Kyral> I'm trying to make the slimmest kernel I can
[01:49] <Diablo-D3> that wont make it much slimmer.
[01:49] <Kyral> the stock Ubuntu Kernels run about 50 MB (Kernel + Initrd + Modules)
[01:49] <Diablo-D3> yeah, which is unfortunate
[01:49] <Kyral> I got mine down to about 7 MB (Kernel + Modules) last night
[01:49] <Diablo-D3> but the savings from 4kbstacks is less than a meg
[01:49] <Diablo-D3> you probably cant even measure it in 100k
[01:50] <Diablo-D3> this only effects kernel stacks, not userland stacks
[01:50] <Diablo-D3> iirc it effects stuff like the kernel's nfs server the most
[01:51] <Kyral> which I/O Schedular should I use...
[01:51] <Diablo-D3> ubuntu chooses a good default.
[01:51] <Kyral> all three are enabled thats why
[01:51] <Diablo-D3> they arent very big.
[01:52] <Nafallo> morning ajmitch :-)
[01:52] <Diablo-D3> remember, modules arent very big
[01:53] <ajmitch> wow, a great lack of useful discussion in here again :)
[01:53] <Kyral> Its not about that
[01:53] <Diablo-D3> btw, how much memory do you have?
[01:53] <Kyral> I just want to create a slimlined kernel
[01:53] <Kyral> SYSTEM i686 Ubuntu (Debian) GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.13.4-GNUGenerationCustom, LIBC 2.3.5, GNU Bash Shell | CPU AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2700+, 2167Mhz, 256KB Cache, 4339 BMIPs | MEM 179/500MB RAM Used, 2/1333MB Swap Used | STORAGE 4.7GB ReiserFS, 6.5GB Ext3, 9.4GB ReiserFS, 10MB TmpFS, 154GB ReiserFS, 251MB TmpFS, 266GB ReiserFS, 603MB ISO9660 | STATS Uptime 0.73d, Users 1(2), Procs 91(27043), Load 0.46 | X11 1280x1024x24bit | http://au
[01:53] <Diablo-D3> then wtf.
[01:53] <Diablo-D3> tmpfs                1015M   13M 1002M   2% /lib/modules/2.6.12-9-k7/volatile
[01:53] <Diablo-D3> thats not 15 megs.
[01:53] <Diablo-D3> er not 50
[01:54] <Kyral> not the volitle ones
[01:54] <Kyral> the Module dir itself for the kernel
[01:54] <Diablo-D3> except thats not loaded into memory.
[01:55] <Diablo-D3> or rather, it doesnt stay in memory
[01:56] <Kyral> still
[01:56] <Kyral> if I don't need it I don't want it ;P
[01:56] <Diablo-D3> -_-
[01:56] <Kyral> I'm bored, sheesh...
[01:56] <Diablo-D3> then go use micro-ubuntu or something
[01:57] <Kyral> nah
[01:57] <Kyral> I have a ****load of diskspace
[02:25] <Diablo-D3> okay, ignore what I said earlier
[02:25] <Diablo-D3> realtime does work now
[02:30] <Diablo-D3> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/realtime-lsm/+bug/2092
[02:30] <Diablo-D3> can someone close that bug?
[02:34] <Diablo-D3> crapola
[02:35] <Diablo-D3> jack now hates realtime-lsm
[02:41] <Diablo-D3> ugh there we go
[02:41] <Diablo-D3> er /etc/default/realtime
[03:18] <Kyral> Anyone know what kernel module Athereos based wireless cards use?
[03:57] <zul> airo i think
[04:03] <Kyral> eh?
[04:08] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:08] <Amaranth> hey
[04:09] <Amaranth> it basically has everything 0.7.5 did, plus working with the System menu
[04:09] <Kyral> cool
[04:09] <Kyral> I'm cooling my jets until Dapper goes open
[04:10] <Kyral> Hey if someone could like review my DCBU before like the end of the month (MIDTERM!) it would be cool. Then I could mark it as complete in time for the midterm grade ;P
[04:10] <LaserJock> hi bddebia, what's up?
[04:11] <LaserJock> *bddebian
[04:11] <ajmitch> it's the bddebian!!
[04:12] <Kyral> hmm, I think I shall master IPTables and then create a (simple) frontend
[04:12] <ajmitch> will he grace us mortals with words? :)
[04:12] <Kyral> He should now ;P
[04:12] <ajmitch> Kyral: yeah, that's pretty silly
[04:12] <LaserJock> maybe we haven't made enough sacrifices ;-)
[04:12] <Kyral> I know
[04:12] <Kyral> but I get bored
[04:13] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[04:13] <bddebian> Damn, what'd I do now?? :-)
[04:13] <Kyral> Oh that was just to get your attention ;P
[04:13] <Kyral> If you had done something I would have pulled out my much more annoying and childish alias ;P
[04:14] <ajmitch> bddebian: it's either that or we humbly grovel at your feet
[04:14] <LaserJock> bddebian: I've got karma (33). Whoo hoo!!
[04:15] <LaserJock> ajmitch: not me
[04:15] <bddebian> LaserJock: Nice, good work :)
[04:15] <Nafallo> ajmitch: baah, you probably have more than me already.
[04:15] <bddebian> ajmitch: Grovel at my feet?? Hahahahaha :-)
[04:16] <Nafallo> I knew it! :-P
[04:16] <Nafallo> 27 more than me.
[04:16] <Kyral> 17 Karma ;P
[04:16] <Amaranth> i'm pretty sure i have 0 launchpad karma
[04:16] <Kyral> I've been busy with school stuff ;P
[04:16] <Amaranth> all the bugs i can deal with are in main :)
[04:16] <Kyral> psh bastard ;P
[04:17] <LaserJock> well, I kinda did it sneaky like. I found some bugs that were already fixed but I got to mark them fixed or rejected
[04:17] <bddebian> I'll get to work this week :-)
[04:17] <Kyral> lol
[04:17] <Kyral> I scored my first changelog entry to ;P
[04:17] <Amaranth> all i know is english
[04:17] <ajmitch> considering that I'll be away for probably 1/4 of the dapper cycle at least, then I don't think it'll be any challenge to get more than I do
[04:17] <Amaranth> people who are listed as package maintainers should get extra points :)
[04:17] <Lathiat> heh
[04:18] <LaserJock> totally
[04:19] <bddebian> ajmitch: Away??
[04:19] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/2772 <---Should I request this be fixed in upstream?
[04:20] <ajmitch> bddebian: yes, AWAY
[04:20] <bddebian> ajmitch: Where ya going, if you don't mind me asking?
[04:20] <ajmitch> so I should give up on MOTUness
[04:20] <Lathiat> Kyral: well, it really needs more investigation
[04:20] <Kyral> Lathiat, its confirmed. VERY confirmed ;P
[04:20] <ajmitch> bddebian: canadia, initially
[04:21] <ajmitch> then up north for christmas & a couple of weeks following
[04:21] <ajmitch> then LCA in late jan
[04:21] <Lathiat> Kyral: doesn't mean its not specific to us, try latest upstream, etc
[04:21] <ajmitch> the weeks add up
[04:21] <bddebian> ajmitch: Dang.. :-)
[04:21] <Kyral> Lathiat, I would, IF it would install
[04:21] <bddebian> ajmitch: And I won't allow you to give up on MOTUness ;-P
[04:21] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/3191 <--- Should I mark as Rejected?
[04:21] <bddebian> ajmitch: You are my Master after all ;-)
[04:21] <ajmitch> bddebian: we have approx 25 week development cycle, and I'll be away for at least 7
[04:21] <ajmitch> bddebian: no, I'm the master of nothing
[04:22] <LaserJock> is .desktop files not going to be on the MOTU meeting agenda?
[04:22] <bddebian> ajmitch: No, you are the Master of The Universe ;-P
[04:22] <ajmitch> LaserJock: add it if you want
[04:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: if it's something you think we need to talk about at a meeting
[04:23] <crimsun> Kyral: #2772 has not been fixed upstream.
[04:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: was it discussed last time? I see that the agenda changed. I though it was on the next one
[04:23] <crimsun> Kyral: #3191 will NOT be fixed anytime soon, because it's a wxwidgets2.6 issue.
[04:23] <Kyral> so should I request fix in upstream?
[04:23] <ajmitch> bddebian: I'm not worthy of the MOTU title :)
[04:23] <Kyral> so 2772 = Upstream Fix and 3191 = Rejected?
[04:23] <crimsun> ajmitch: bah, you're going ubuntu.com ;-)
[04:24] <ajmitch> crimsun: excuse me?
[04:24] <crimsun> ajmitch: aren't you joining the core dev team?
[04:24] <bddebian> ajmitch: Oh stop it, you're starting to sound like me :-)
[04:24] <crimsun> bddebian: precisely!
[04:24] <ajmitch> crimsun: joined, but what difference does that make?
[04:24] <crimsun> ajmitch: I think that speaks a bit about "worthiness" ;-)
[04:25] <ajmitch> crimsun: and all of us motus have ubuntu.com addresses (or should)
[04:25] <crimsun> ajmitch: yeah, I meant ubuntu.com->core dev team
[04:25] <crimsun> sorry, kinda slow tonight
[04:26] <Kyral> if no one has any objections I'm gonna mark those as I said I would...
[04:26] <crimsun> Kyral: it's fine by me.
[04:26] <crimsun> (I would have rejected all complaints about it being compiled against wxwindows2.4 anyhow)
[04:27] <Lathiat> bddebian: not a member?
[04:27] <ajmitch> crimsun: right, and core dev team != employed, of course :)
[04:27] <crimsun> ajmitch: true
[04:28] <Kyral> done
[04:28] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but I think it still speaks to your worthyness of the MOTU title ;-)
[04:28] <Kyral> should I change its status in Ubuntu to closed or...
[04:29] <Kyral> for 2772
[04:29] <crimsun> just leave it.
[04:29] <Kyral> kk
[04:29] <crimsun> we can't do anything about it currently anyhow.
[04:30] <Nafallo> this laptop needs more ram :-/
[04:30] <ajmitch> Nafallo: what, it only has 1GB?
[04:30] <bddebian> Lathiat: Yes, I'm a member :-)
[04:30] <Nafallo> indeed
[04:30] <ajmitch> yes, I feel so sorry for you Nafallo
[04:30] <Lathiat> bddebian: are you in the ubuntu members launchpad group/
[04:30] <Lathiat> bddebian: if so, you should have an @ubuntu.com
[04:30] <crimsun> bddebian: mine doesn't work either due to my GPG key being sign-only :-)
[04:30] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/libtrash/+bug/2702 <---Wishlist anyone?
[04:30] <Lathiat> crimsun: thats fixed (so im told)
[04:30] <ajmitch> LaserJock: he's not
[04:31] <ajmitch> s/laserjock/lathiat/
[04:31] <crimsun> Lathiat: I keep trying, and it keeps giving me the lovely red oops page.
[04:31] <Lathiat> hm ok
[04:31] <ajmitch> Lathiat: so as I've told him, he needs to bug a CC member :)
[04:32] <Nafallo> bddebian: I think the sab is alive... :-)
[04:32] <bddebian> Lathiat: I'm not in the launchpad group apparently
[04:32] <Lathiat> apparently you suck then ;p
[04:32] <bddebian> Nafallo: The sab?
[04:33] <ajmitch> bddebian: so get in the group
[04:33] <Nafallo> bddebian: sabdfl
[04:33] <bddebian> Lathiat: Yeah, pretty much
[04:33] <bddebian> Nafallo: Ah
[04:33] <ajmitch> bddebian: you're not cool if you're not in the group
[04:33] <Nafallo> bddebian: go bug him :-)
[04:33] <bddebian> ajmitch: I don't need to be in the group to get things done apparently :-)
[04:33] <ajmitch> yes, I'm sure sabdfl will welcome a break from getting soyuz ready by tuesday
[04:33] <Lathiat> heh
[04:33] <Nafallo> :-)
[04:33] <Lathiat> hows that going anyway?
[04:34] <ajmitch> getting there
[04:34] <Nafallo> Lathiat: like I said... he's still awake ;-)
[04:34] <Lathiat> heh
[04:34] <ajmitch> 09:51 < SteveA_> sabdfl: we gonna see some soyuz action om monday?
[04:34] <Lathiat> guess i wont pester him then ;p
[04:34] <ajmitch> 09:52 < sabdfl> SteveA_: err.. lots of test failures
[04:34] <Nafallo> hehe :-)
[04:34] <bddebian> soyuz?  WTF is soyuz?
[04:34] <Lathiat> bddebian: launchpad infrastructure for package building etc
[04:34] <Lathiat> it is
[04:34] <ajmitch> so it's coming close
[04:34] <Lathiat> launchpad
[04:34] <Lathiat> soyuz
[04:35] <Lathiat> i dunno what malone is
[04:35] <ajmitch> bddebian: yes, one that sabdfl rode on
[04:35] <bddebian> Ahh
[04:36] <ajmitch> on his little trip up to space
[04:36] <Amaranth> soyuz is the thing the takes off from launchpad ;)
[04:37] <TiMiDo> hey everyone, i want to get involved, in the ubuntu community where do i star from?
[04:38] <Lathiat> woo
[04:38] <crimsun> start from wiki/MOTU
[04:38] <Lathiat> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[04:41] <ajmitch> Kyral: when you have a number of contributions over a period of time
[04:41] <Kyral> yah, but when is enough :P
[04:41] <crimsun> membership? right away.
[04:41] <crimsun> MOTUship needs more involvement, like ajmitch said
[04:42] <ajmitch> crimsun: I dunno, membership also needs a sustained contribution
[04:42] <Kyral> How many bugs do I have squish, how many packages do I need to fix
[04:42] <TiMiDo> ok at was reading there and i already signed in on the launchpad what else do i do?
[04:42] <Lathiat> all of mine :)
[04:42] <crimsun> ajmitch: fair 'nuff, I'm still in the fast-track frame of mind
[04:43] <TiMiDo> what else do i do?
[04:43] <ajmitch> crimsun: I remember some highly active now-MOTUs who were turned down at CC the first time because they'd only been working a couple of weeks
[04:44] <ajmitch> bddebian: were you turned down at CC?
[04:44] <crimsun> TiMiDo: With what area are you interested in helping?
[04:45] <TiMiDo> testing, programming or write docs,
[04:45] <TiMiDo> or whatever i can do
[04:45] <bddebian> ajmitch: First time yes.  They said come back in two weeks :)
[04:45] <crimsun> TiMiDo: pick out some things you want to do. Make sure you document them on a wiki page.
[04:46] <ajmitch> the MOTU team does packaging & fixing of universe packages
[04:46] <ajmitch> if that's the area you want to start in
[04:46] <TiMiDo> crimsun; oh i'm not really good with wiki =)
[04:47] <Kyral> Someone clear out REVU...'P
[05:04] <Nafallo> w00t!
[05:05] <Nafallo> seems like we are getting Karma for uploads soon :-P
[05:06] <ajmitch> Nafallo: well yeah
[05:06] <ajmitch> that was intended from the beginning
[05:06] <ajmitch> so that bddebian can be top of the karma table
[05:06] <Nafallo> hehe
[05:07] <Nafallo> lol anyway :-P
[05:07] <Nafallo> wow
[05:07] <Nafallo> 7 points for non-FTBFS ;-)
[05:08] <Kyral> Do you have to be in the MOTU Group?
[05:08] <ajmitch> Kyral: to upload?
[05:08] <Nafallo> to upload?
[05:08] <ajmitch> for uploads you need to be in the ubuntu developers group
[05:08] <Kyral> yah (Not to REVU)
[05:08] <bddebian> Heh
[05:09] <ajmitch> team membership will control who uploads for dapper
[05:09] <Kyral> which team...
[05:09] <ajmitch> so the tech board would have to approve you joining that group
[05:09] <ajmitch> ubuntu-dev, as I said
[05:09] <Kyral> okay
[05:10] <Kyral> sorry I just like fainted kinda
[05:10] <ajmitch> http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
[05:10] <Kyral> Yah I'm a part of Ubuntu Users
[05:11] <ajmitch> unlike ubuntu users, this one has some significance for uploads :)
[05:11] <Kyral> I know///
[05:11] <Kyral> I need to be a Member first right?
[05:11] <Nafallo> yes
[05:12] <Kyral> yah so I'll be content to smash bugs and make packages for REVU in the time being ;P
[05:12] <ajmitch> member first at a CC meeting
[05:12] <ajmitch> MOTU next at a TB meeting
[05:12] <ajmitch> then main uploader at TB as well
[05:12] <Nafallo> I think I became member and MOTU with a week inbetween ;-)
[05:13] <ajmitch> Nafallo: some got them at the same meeting
[05:13] <ajmitch> when it was really fast-tracked
[05:13] <Kyral> I'm going to cite my work as a MOTU-In Training when I go for Member Power
[05:13] <Nafallo> ajmitch: yea, buts that's only wrong :-P
[05:13] <ajmitch> Kyral: what work have you done?
[05:13] <Amaranth> and i haven't been to one since
[05:13] <Kyral> Smashed bugs mostly
[05:14] <Nafallo> Amaranth: hehe. you where on all before that one, right? ;-)
[05:14] <Kyral> A lot of stuff in UbuntuForums
[05:14] <Amaranth> Nafallo: Almost every single one, no matter what time.
[05:14] <Nafallo> :-)
[05:14] <ajmitch> Kyral: what bugs have you fixed?
[05:14] <Nafallo> there you got hen
[05:14] <Nafallo> s/t\ /\ t/
[05:14] <Amaranth> It was summer, I was staying awake 24 hours at a time and sleeping 16. :D
[05:15] <Kyral> I'm trying to find my activity track
[05:16] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
[05:16] <jsgotangco> morning
[05:16] <ajmitch> Kyral: I just haven't seen many sponsored uploadss for you to fix bugs :)
[05:17] <Kyral> Sponsored Uploads? Like for REVU?
[05:17] <ajmitch> like uploads to ubuntu
[05:17] <Kyral> I don't have those kinda rights yet
[05:18] <ajmitch> Kyral: I said sponsored uploads
[05:18] <ajmitch> which means that a MOTU uploaded something you had done
[05:18] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, i was cleaning up my key this weekend, you didn't sign my key hehe or forgot to send it
[05:18] <Kyral> Mez is supposed to upload this one for me soon...
[05:18] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3129
[05:19] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: that's probably right
[05:19] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: I probably still have your key fingerprint in my old laptop bag :)
[05:19] <Nafallo> noone can upload now :-P
[05:20] <jsgotangco> heh no rush, i'm catching up on fingerprints lately
[05:20] <Kyral> I've mainly been going around confirming, changing priority, whatnot. Its rare that I have time to actually build something as of late (school..)
[05:20] <ajmitch> right
[05:20] <Kyral> Check the Universe Bugs mailing list. Name's Chris Peterman ;P
[05:21] <ajmitch> not sure what criteria the CC will use, but you want to have as much as possible done to apply for membership :)
[05:21] <Kyral> Yah I know
[05:21] <ajmitch> yes, I've been busy on that list as well ;)
[05:21] <Kyral> I have a new package sitting in REVU limbo right now
[05:22] <Kyral> lol
[05:22] <Kyral> During semester break it will pick up for me
[05:22] <Kyral> I tend to do more tech support while on UbuntuForums ;P
[05:23] <ajmitch> right, that questionable futurama package
[05:23] <Kyral> Actually not the Futurama package
[05:23] <Kyral> look for "dcbu"
[05:23] <ajmitch>  yes, spotted it
[05:24] <ajmitch> -1ubuntu1 should be -0ubuntu1 :)
[05:25] <Diablo-D3> Futrama has its own package now?
[05:25] <Kyral> dch -v "Because the MOTU is very very picky" :P
[05:26] <ajmitch> Kyral: most MOTUs aren't
[05:26] <ajmitch> I'm just pedantic
[05:26] <Nafallo> :-)
[05:26] <Kyral> twas a joke ;P
[05:26] <Kyral> and WTF does pedantic mean?
[05:27] <Diablo-D3> nheh
[05:27] <Kyral> because I didn't know shell scripted when I started writing it ;P
[05:27] <Diablo-D3> Kyral: its a polite word for anal.
[05:27] <ajmitch> and I notice that it doesn't backup the critical parts of dpkg
[05:28] <ajmitch> just the list of installed packages
[05:28] <Kyral> eh?
[05:28] <Diablo-D3> Kyral: anal retentive
[05:28] <ajmitch> the actual status db
[05:28] <ajmitch> Diablo-D3: thank you for your contribution :P
[05:28] <Kyral> where IS the actual status db
[05:28] <ajmitch> oh my
[05:28] <ajmitch> it's in /var/lib/dpkg
[05:28] <Diablo-D3> BBQ!
[05:28] <ajmitch> Diablo-D3: stop it now, please
[05:29] <Kyral> can't that be wiped with autoclean...
[05:29] <Diablo-D3> ajmitch: what? I'm roasting you.
[05:29] <ajmitch> Diablo-D3: you're being silly
[05:29] <ajmitch> Kyral: not at all
[05:29] <Diablo-D3> ajmitch: well, its not like breezy+1 is open for buisness yet =/
[05:29] <Kyral> well, mark what you think should be added...I need to shower ;P
[05:29] <ajmitch> Diablo-D3: it doesn't give you license to be annoying
[05:30] <ajmitch> Kyral: if I remember to look at it again, I will :)
[05:30] <Kyral> lol
[05:30] <Kyral> so no sponsor?
[05:30] <ajmitch> I'm just not sure that a program to copy a few files is worth a package as it stands at the moment
[05:30] <ajmitch> certainly not right now
[05:30] <Kyral> okay
[05:30] <ajmitch> this package might not pass the debian 'trivial package' test
[05:30] <Kyral> Now I know what I'm doing in December
[05:31] <Kyral> It may be trivial, but I have found that people like the idea of this thing
[05:32] <ajmitch> or some shell solution with rdiff-backup :)
[05:32] <Kyral> So basically backup a crapload of stuff
[05:32] <ajmitch> and keep some history
[05:32] <Kyral> I may wind up modifying it into a mass deployment script (for like computer labs)
[05:32] <ajmitch> heck, even copying into a bzr repository would be useful :)
[05:33] <Kyral> bzr repo?
[05:33] <ajmitch> yes
[05:33] <Kyral> wzzat
[05:33] <ajmitch> google it :P
[05:33] <Nafallo> apt-cache show bzr :-)
[05:33] <Kyral> Yah I will
[05:33] <Amaranth> ooh, firefox 1.5 coming soon: "No known major regressions."
[05:33] <ajmitch> it's a revision control system
[05:33] <Kyral> 'cause I need to shower
[05:34] <Kyral> Is there anythign for mass deployment on Ubuntu yet...
[05:34] <Kyral> I dunno....but shower calls
[05:35] <Nafallo> I hope mvo makes that in dapper :-)
[05:39] <Nafallo> I hope apt-proxy gains min_age soonish
[05:43] <bddebian> heh
[05:51] <Kyral> I'll finish Fortune-Mod-Futurama tomarrow
[05:52] <Kyral> all I have to do is find the right copyright for Futurama right (99% sure that this kinda thing is covered under Fair Use)
[05:59] <Nafallo> wow soyuz!! :-)
[06:11] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[08:39] <pef> hello
[09:12] <dholbach> good morning
[09:13] <\sh> hey dholbach
[09:13] <dholbach> hey stephan
[09:17] <ajmitch> hi dholbach
[09:17] <dholbach> hey andrew
[09:17] <dholbach> how are you all?
[09:17] <ajmitch> good
[09:18] <\sh> couple of beers and half a bottle of bacardi rum....so RELAXED ,-)
[09:18] <ajmitch> haha
[09:18] <Lathiat> haha
[09:18] <dholbach> ouch
[09:19] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:19] <\sh> not at the same time ;)
[09:19] <ajmitch> was ogra leading you astray again?
[09:19] <\sh> ajmitch: i think it was the other way around
[09:19] <ajmitch> :)
[09:20] <\sh> i promised Jane that I will comfort him, so he can sleep long without a disturb...I think I succeed with the plan ;)
[09:21] <ajmitch> hehe
[09:21] <ajmitch> he's nice & relaxed then?
[09:21] <ajmitch> and not too hungover?
[09:21] <\sh> no...everything is ok :)
[09:22] <Treenaks> \sh: he's just catching up? :)
[09:23] <\sh> Treenaks: he has to...we need him at ubz :)
[09:23] <Treenaks> \sh: true..
[09:23] <ajmitch> UBZ is coming closer..
[09:23] <Treenaks> ajmitch: 2 weeks!
[09:27] <Lathiat> pff
[09:27] <Treenaks> Lathiat: tired of it already?!
[09:27] <Lathiat> no, im not going
[09:27] <Treenaks> Lathiat: you're not?!
[09:28] <Lathiat> no
[09:28] <Lathiat> i can't afford it, and was rejected for sponsorship
[09:28] <Treenaks> hm. too bad
[09:28] <Lathiat> its ok, ajmitch and jdub can do my hard work for me
[09:28] <Lathiat> :)
[09:29] <ajmitch> *cough*
[09:29] <Treenaks> Lathiat: oh I'll be seeing jdub this week :)
[09:29] <Treenaks> ajmitch: "I pretended to be Lathiat and all I got to show for it is this lousy t-shirt" ?
[09:29] <Lathiat> all the important people go to linux.conf.nz^H^Hau anyway
[09:29] <\sh> Lathiat: u mean sitting with dropped pants in cold montreal and shouting "Love Ubuntu! Love Ubuntu"? ,-)
[09:30] <Treenaks> Lathiat: I can't afford _that_ ;)
[09:30] <Lathiat> and \sh
[09:30] <Lathiat> Treenaks: i can :)
[09:30] <Lathiat> its much cheaper to go there, and i got travel assistance
[09:30] <Treenaks> Lathiat: ah, you're swimming? :)
[09:30] <Lathiat> ehe
[09:30] <Lathiat> ^h
[09:30] <ajmitch> travel assistance = a canoe
[09:30] <Treenaks> ajmitch: LOL
[09:31] <Treenaks> ajmitch: with a guy in it shouting the rhythm
[09:31] <Lathiat> Dear Trent, We are pleased to offer you a canoe for travel assistance to LCA2006, I hope you can soon confirm you will be coming. Cheers, Nick, LCA2006
[09:32] <\sh> Treenaks: with a guy who is playing the drums for the rhythm ;)
[09:32] <Treenaks> \sh: yeah :)
[09:32] <Treenaks> galley-slaves ;)
[09:34] <\sh> "The Gauls, The Crazy Gauls"
[09:40] <sivang> \sh: do we have a breezy goals list today?
[09:40] <Treenaks> I mean.. I can almost see the hotel where EuroOSCON is being held
[09:40] <Treenaks> but I couldn't go :(
[09:41] <ajmitch> sivang: dapper?
[09:41] <sivang> ajmitch: yes
[09:41] <dholbach> \sh: bug triage :)
[09:41] <dholbach> sivang: bug triage :)
[09:41] <dholbach> \sh: sorry :)
[09:41] <sivang> dholbach: what about bug triage?
[09:41] <KraetziChriZ> Morning Guys :-P
[09:42] <dholbach> sivang: it's a thing we can do now that the archive is closed, we need a good cleanup, that's why i'm going to run a bug day on wednesday
[09:43] <dholbach> are we prepared for some hundreds of bug triagers on wednesday? :)
[09:43] <ajmitch> dholbach: maybe, I've been doing some cleanup today
[09:44] <ajmitch> remember that we have a MOTU meeting coming up as well
[09:45] <dholbach> it'll be on 20 utc, right?
[09:45] <ajmitch> yes
[09:45] <ajmitch> so 9am thursday for me
[09:45] <dholbach> then we'll have enough time to show the guys around :)
[09:47] <Lathiat> gah
[09:47] <Lathiat> i'll forget that
[09:47] <Lathiat> i bet
[09:47] <Lathiat> im doing well so far
[09:47] <Lathiat> ajmitch: phone me on thursday. ;)
[09:48] <ajmitch> Lathiat: sure, I've got your number on my phone ;)
[09:48] <sivang> dholbach: cool, I'll perpare myself as well
[09:48] <Lathiat> wait, that means i have to fix my phone, beh
[09:48] <Lathiat> chagers dead :\
[09:48] <Lathiat> *chargers
[09:48] <Lathiat> decided to stop charging yesterday :(
[09:56] <ivoks> uh... i don't know about you, but people are confused with kubuntu, edubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu...
[09:57] <ivoks> every newbie i met thinks that this are all diferent distributions
[09:57] <ivoks> and dream about one single ubuntu distribution :)
[09:57] <dholbach> we need a WeAreOneFamily page on the wiki to send them too :)
[09:58] <ivoks> :)
[09:58] <ivoks> and we had a wrong aproach, imho
[09:59] <jsgotangco> xubuntu?
[09:59] <jsgotangco> there's an initiative for it already?
[09:59] <ivoks> yes
[09:59] <ivoks> it's in breezy :)
[09:59] <jsgotangco> well xfce is in breezy
[09:59] <jsgotangco> but it ain't called xubuntu
[09:59] <jsgotangco> unless there's a metapackage?
[09:59] <ivoks> xubuntu-*
[09:59] <jsgotangco> WOW
[09:59] <ivoks> good morning jsgotangco :)
[10:00] <jsgotangco> Package: xubuntu-desktop
[10:00] <jsgotangco> Priority: optional
[10:00] <jsgotangco> Section: universe/misc
[10:00] <jsgotangco> Installed-Size: 32
[10:00] <jsgotangco> Maintainer: Jani Monoses <jani@email.ro>
[10:00] <jsgotangco> oohhhh
[10:01] <ivoks> yup, still universe :/
[10:01] <jsgotangco> still a good start imo
[10:01] <ivoks> of course
[10:02] <ivoks> it's fresh project
[10:02] <jsgotangco> nice i'll do a server install later and grab the metapackage
[10:02] <jsgotangco> s/server/base
[10:07] <ivoks> jsgotangco: you said it right... server install
[10:08] <ivoks> uh..
[10:08] <ivoks> ubuntu is topic #1 in linux.hr community
[10:08] <jsgotangco> nice
[10:08] <ivoks> just check out linux.hr
[10:09] <ivoks> and hr.comp.os.linux is all covered with ubuntu questions
[10:39] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, ping?
[10:39] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: pong
[10:39] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, are we adopting Unfrgiven's intro doc?
[10:40] <ajmitch> it was going to go into breezy but didn't make it through NEW
[10:40] <ajmitch> do you mean we==doc team?
[10:40] <jsgotangco> no, ubuntu in general
[10:41] <ajmitch> yes, we are
[10:41] <herve> hello
[10:41] <ajmitch> hi herve
[10:41] <herve> dholbach, yo daniel!
[10:41] <herve> hey ajmitch!
[10:41] <jsgotangco> we can easily integrate that stuff into one huge book like the freebsd handbook
[10:41] <dholbach> herve!
[10:41] <dholbach> NICE TO SEE YOU BACK!
[10:41] <herve> woohoo!
[10:42] <ajmitch> herve: back & ready to work on dapper?
[10:42] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:42] <jsgotangco> i've lost the doc
[10:42] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, do you have the link again?
[10:43] <herve> ajmitch, on a slower pace but yes
[10:44] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: not the very latest package
[10:47] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, even an old one that'll do
[10:49] <ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=787 for the source package
[10:49] <jsgotangco> thanks so there's a deb
[10:50] <herve> yes! revu
[10:50] <herve> I have a package to register
[10:50] <herve> those dumbs at Debian won't ever reply to my request for sponsorship
[10:52] <\sh> herve: CoC CoC ,)
[10:52] <herve> I stayed polite :-)
[10:52] <dholbach> haha
[10:52] <dholbach> herve, how we know him :)
[10:52] <dholbach> ... know and love him ... :)
[10:53] <zakame> hi all
[10:53] <jsgotangco> zakame, hi!
[10:53] <dholbach> you have a screenshot somewhere, jsgotangco?
[10:53] <dholbach> hi zakame
[10:54] <zakame> just got back to Daet :D
[10:54] <jsgotangco> dholbach, you don't want ME posting my desktop to Planet
[10:54] <ajmitch> dholbach: probably some random photo from planet ;)
[10:54] <jsgotangco> you wouldn't want to start another "fridge" trend
[10:54] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: why not?
[10:54] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[10:54] <jsgotangco> good idea
[10:54] <ajmitch> I'm all for another fridge trend
[10:55] <jsgotangco> the face of motu trend?
[10:55] <zakame> hehe
[10:55] <freeflying> what does these mean:
[10:55] <freeflying> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to scons-local-0.96.1/SCons/Environment.pyc: binary file contents changed
[10:55] <freeflying> dpkg-source: building skim in skim_1.4.2-1.dsc
[10:55] <freeflying> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
[10:56] <dholbach> you changed a binary file
[10:56] <ajmitch> freeflying: you need to rm .pyc files in the clean target
[10:56] <dholbach> try running    sudo fakeroot debian/rules clean
[10:56] <zakame> freeflying: it means you probably changed a binary, or deleted a file
[10:56] <Sepheebear> hey guys, i spammed the hell out of this bug report  Malone #3255. I added the *.diff.gz for each update. is there a better way I could report these?
[10:56] <ajmitch> Sepheebear: please please don't paste them inline
[10:57] <ajmitch> as malone mangles comments
[10:57] <dholbach> Sepheebear: do a debdiff on both .dsc files and "+ add attachment"
[10:57] <Sepheebear> thanks will do
[10:57] <ajmitch> add attachment is the only way they'll be usable
[10:57] <Sepheebear> ah ok now i know
[10:57] <freeflying> same error after doing sudo fakeroot debian/rules clean
[10:58] <dholbach> then you should fix up the clean target to remove the .pyc files
[10:58] <zakame> freeflying: are you using debuild? if so, you can look at the .build logfile and tell us what happened there...
[10:58] <freeflying> i'm using dpkg-buildpackage directly
[10:59] <zakame> freeflying: hmmm, try running that under a script log: `script <logfile>` and `dpkg-buildpackage ...`
[11:00] <Lathiat> we already know the problem...
[11:11] <\sh> hmmm...
[11:11] <\sh> "Format USB Stick" is missing somehow ;)
[11:16] <Sepheebear> i updated the bugreport with the diff, thanks. so far i've been messing around with font packages to get my feet wet, is there a listing anywhere of other packages that need love?
[11:18] <dholbach_> Sepheebear: that's nice of you, thanks - i guess you'll have to harvest across malone and bugzilla for that :(
[11:19] <Sepheebear> hey anyway i can help. its funny i now use ubuntu 90% just looking for bugs to fix
[11:19] <freeflying> still give the same errors
[11:20] <freeflying> have build it correctly a week ago
[11:44] <herve> how many of you are already using baazar-ng?
[11:45] <ajmitch> I've been using it for awhile now
[11:48] <dam_ned> hello all
[11:48] <dam_ned> I package a requested package from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
[11:49] <dam_ned> How can I make it available in universe?
[11:49] <dholbach_> we need to review it
[11:49] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU has all the information
[11:49] <dam_ned> Does there exist something like the debian sponsors system, or do I have to become a member?
[11:50] <ajmitch> revu is where we review stuff & sponsor
[11:50] <dam_ned> I read most of it, but maybe I missed something
[11:50] <dam_ned> aha
[11:50] <dholbach> if we reviewed it and like it, somebody will sponsor an upload
[11:50] <dam_ned> perfect, I'll check it out
[11:50] <herve> ajmitch, no major flaw, no blocking bug?
[11:53] <ajmitch> herve: hmm?
[12:20] <herve> ajmitch, baazar-ng, you're happy with it?
[12:32] <ajmitch> herve: I'm quite impressed
[12:35] <herve> I'm looking for a replacement of tla
[12:35] <herve> bzr is a good candidate but may be too young
[12:35] <ajmitch> right
[12:35] <ajmitch> bazaar is probably a better direct replacement at the moment
[12:35] <herve> my point too, in can read tla archives
[12:36] <herve> s/in/it
[12:36] <herve> siretart: ping
[12:38] <lifeless> bzr is ready, for sure
[12:38] <lifeless> :)
[12:38] <lifeless> and baz-import is working for many folk now
[12:39] <herve> but not all :-)
[12:39] <lifeless> herve: have you tried it ?
[12:41] <dholbach> which team aliases in launchpad do we have?
[12:41] <herve> not yet, just stuying the alternatives for now
[12:41] <ajmitch> dholbach: hm? there are quite a few now
[12:41] <dholbach> could you all shout in the names of them?
[12:41] <dholbach> mono? gnome? motumedia?
[12:41] <dholbach> kubuntu-team?
[12:42] <ajmitch> mono, motu, motuim, avahi, pkg-zope
[12:42] <ajmitch> those are a few I know of
[12:42] <Lathiat> teams?
[12:42] <Lathiat> moturuby, motugames
[12:42] <dholbach> ah pkg-zope is the one
[12:42] <dholbach> cool
[12:42] <ajmitch> dholbach: heh, it was renamed
[12:42] <Lathiat> we really should make them members of the motu team or something
[12:43] <ajmitch> that's possible
[12:43] <Lathiat> i know thats why i mentioned it :)
[12:43] <ajmitch> but they'd probably get all the motu bugs then
[12:43] <Lathiat> you think?
[12:43] <Lathiat> hrm
[12:43] <ajmitch> you want to try it with avahi? ;)
[12:43] <Lathiat> haha
[12:43] <Lathiat> ell as a ember of the motu team i dont get motu bug stuff..
[12:43] <ajmitch> make avahi a member & see if sebest complains
[12:44] <ajmitch> actually yeah
[12:44] <Lathiat> so why would another team?
[12:44] <ajmitch> since motu's contact address is a mailing list
[12:44] <ajmitch> rather than all team member
[12:44] <ajmitch> it might work ok
[12:44] <Lathiat> ah right
[12:50] <dholbach> motuxfce?
[12:53] <sebest> ajmitch: why would i complain? :)
[12:53] <Lathiat> sebest: getting mailed every bug assigned to MOTUs :)
[12:53] <sebest> ah yes, i would complain :s
[12:54] <Lathiat> haha
[12:54] <sebest> as i'm not (yet) a motu :)
[12:55] <dholbach> i changed wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeams a bit
[12:55] <dholbach> i guess we'll need it as a lookup table for bug days soon
[01:05] <herve> so what is the priority when the dapper archive is open?
[01:06] <dholbach> merges and bug triage/fixing
[01:06] <dholbach> we can do triage now too :)
[01:06] <Mortas> I'm a new noob who wants to join in, please give me tedious boring jobs so I can learn :)
[01:06] <ajmitch> dapper is special - we want universe to be extra nice
[01:07] <ajmitch> Mortas: oh we've got *lots* of those
[01:07] <Mortas> I was assuming that
[01:07] <Mortas> I've been looking around at the wiki but haven't found the 'we don't wanna touch this, let the new guy do it' parts
[01:07] <dholbach> Mortas: nice of you to drop in
[01:07] <dholbach> Mortas: basically you can touch everything
[01:07] <dholbach> if you don't have upload privileges yet, we will have somebody review your changes
[01:08] <dholbach> but the archive isnt open yet, so we're currently "cleaning up" :)
[01:08] <dholbach> meaning we're having a look at all the bugs in malone that are tagged as "motu"
[01:08] <dholbach> and make sure we understand what the reporter is talking about and we look for fixes, if we can't do them ourselves
[01:09] <Mortas> I was looking at malone but haven't really figured out how to filter out the motu stuff
[01:09] <dholbach> checking in upstreams bugzillas is cool too, since they sometimes have the fix around already (if not, we can forward them our bug)
[01:09] <Mortas> is that everything assigned to moto?
[01:09] <Mortas> or is there a generic category of some sort
[01:09] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs
[01:09] <ajmitch> has the bugs assigned to the motu team
[01:10] <Mortas> ah that's a lot more than I found *bookmarks*
[01:11] <dholbach> cool :)
[01:12] <Mortas> ah k, didn't think of looking at the people & teams yet
[01:12] <dholbach> launchpad takes a bit of time to get used to
[01:12] <dholbach> to grok all the concepts - i daresay i didnt manage all of them myself yet :)
[01:12] <Mortas> that was to be expected :)
[01:13] <Mortas> I just to the usual brute-force learning method, click on everything
[01:13] <Mortas> do*
[01:13] <Mortas> so the general idea is, pick a bug, see if you can test/fix it, submit to reviewer?
[01:13] <dholbach> sometimes we have to make sure we have all the information a reporter can give us
[01:14] <dholbach> "this doesnt work" isnt really helpful :)
[01:14] <Mortas> and sadly enough most likely the content of atleasy 70% of the bug reports
[01:14] <dholbach> for example: if you don't manage to reproduce a crash, you can tell them to follow the instructions on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[01:15] <dholbach> good resources for fixed bugs are of course http://packages.debian.org/<package> (the changelog section) or bugs.debian.org
[01:15] <Mortas> is there a page on the wiki with a collection of this links or should I just start bookmarking a lot?
[01:15] <dholbach> i'm just writing up a couple of notes for bug squashing
[01:15] <dholbach> :)
[01:15] <dholbach> i wanted to announce a bug day on wednesday
[01:15] <dholbach> so keep on asking, so i don't forget :)
[01:16] <Mortas> haha ok
[01:16] <dholbach> for example gnome wiki has a couple of stock answers, which are put in a nice way
[01:16] <dholbach> so you don't go and write "Reporter, which version of Ubuntu do you use?"
[01:16] <dholbach> i read that once and was quite shocked
[01:17] <Mortas> the could have been said a lot better
[01:17] <Mortas> that*
[01:17] <Mortas> still to early for my fingers to have woken up
[01:17] <dholbach> :)
[01:18] <dholbach> in launchpad you can add a link to a upstream bug tracker (if you forwarded it upstream or you found a duplicate of the report)
[01:19] <dholbach> and i just updated MOTUTeams, with a list of launchpad names, which we can assign bugs to
[01:19] <Lathiat> unfortunately linked debain bugs dont seem to show the status unlike bz bugs
[01:19] <Mortas> another question I have is if there is some sort of list of why a certain package will not be included
[01:19] <Mortas> I know for example tomcat isn't in there and that there are people who want it
[01:19] <Mortas> but not why it isn't in there
[01:19] <ajmitch> Mortas: usually because they haven't been synced from debian
[01:19] <ajmitch> since dapper isn't open yet
[01:19] <dholbach> Mortas: we list packages users want to have on UniverseCandidates (on the wiki)
[01:20] <ajmitch> and new packages had to be manually approved after the upstream version freeze for breezy
[01:20] <Lathiat> well theres 2 categories
[01:20] <Lathiat> those in debian not in ubuntu
[01:20] <ajmitch> dholbach: tomcat is in debian :)
[01:20] <Lathiat> and those not in either
[01:20] <Lathiat> the latter can be for a number of reasons
[01:20] <Lathiat> not packaged, not free, requires some non-free part, etc
[01:20] <dholbach> ajmitch: just a more general answer :)
[01:20] <Lathiat> totally illegal in 90% of the world, etc :)
[01:20] <ajmitch> dholbach: I know..
[01:20] <dholbach> ajmitch: but cool, people will love it
[01:21] <herve> ouch, I'm not a memeber of universe-bugs
[01:22] <dholbach> herve: you will cry under the load :)
[01:23] <herve> dholbach, it happened when I commented on malone
[01:23] <herve> but you're right
[01:23] <Lathiat> herve: oh
[01:23] <dholbach> herve: ah ok
[01:23] <herve> I wasn't asking for someone to suscribe me!
[01:23] <ajmitch> dholbach: subscribe him quick!
[01:23] <dholbach> somebody please tell me how to fix up mailman
[01:23] <herve> suscribing to gmane.org will be fine
[01:23] <dholbach> thanks :)
[01:24] <herve> so I guess I'm not the only one to receive those moderator messages?
[01:24] <dholbach> herve: no, i'm the moderator, because i can't filter Reply-To or Organisation or whatever properly
[01:25] <herve> strange, there are bugs listed twice in the launchpad url given by ajmitch
[01:25] <Mithrandir> dholbach: hmm?  What are you wondering about mailman?
[01:25] <dholbach> dups probably
[01:25] <Lathiat> herve: probably because they were targetted at more than 1 distro
[01:25] <Lathiat> herve: e.g. targetted at breezy+hoary+current
[01:26] <herve> dholbach, no, same numner
[01:26] <herve> number
[01:26] <Lathiat> which people do misunderstandubly sometimes
[01:26] <ajmitch> herve: such as?
[01:26] <ajmitch> herve: same bug, different bug tasks :)
[01:26] <ajmitch> it's a malone feature
[01:26] <herve> 3145
[01:26] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i don't want to filter From:, but Reply-To or whatever only lets lunchpad mails through
[01:26] <ajmitch> somebody marked the same bug as a task against gnucash & ubuntu
[01:27] <Mithrandir> dholbach: one level up.  What is the problem you're trying to solve?
[01:27] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i want to permit just launchpad mails and the ones of subscribed guys on the mailing list (universe-bugs@)
[01:28] <Mithrandir> dholbach: ok, that's possible to do.
[01:28] <herve>  elmo crashes on startup  -- I think we would know :-)
[01:28] <Lathiat> haha
[01:29] <dholbach> Mithrandir: could you give me a hand?
[01:30] <herve> yoohoo! malone finally has a "subscribe me" action
[01:30] <Mithrandir> dholbach: list admin page -> sender filters -> accept_these_nonmembers = ^.*@launchpad.net
[01:30] <herve> no need to type its own login
[01:31] <dholbach> Mithrandir: that's only for "From:"
[01:31] <dholbach> Mithrandir: which is not accurate for the recent launchpad mails
[01:31] <Mithrandir> hmm, point
[01:31] <Mithrandir> add it to header_filter_rules?
[01:31] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i tried 'privacy options' -> 'spam filters' -> header_filter_rules
[01:32] <dholbach> yeah, but i didnt manage a good expression to fix it
[01:32] <Mithrandir> ^Reply-To:.*launchpad.net ?
[01:32] <Mithrandir> or x-Malone-Bug or whatever meta-header malone sets
[01:33] <Treenaks> they just need to fix their Envelope-From
[01:33] <Treenaks> because current behaviour breaks RFCs
[01:33] <dholbach> i'll try to
[01:34] <dholbach> we'll see with the next comments on malone bugs
[01:34] <dholbach> so please: triage motu bugs, thank you
[01:34] <ajmitch> ok, sleep time, night all
[01:35] <dholbach> sleep tight andrew
[01:35] <zenrox> yawn
[01:36] <dholbach> i'm off to get some food, see you
[01:36] <zenrox> see you dholbach
[01:38] <dholbach> Mithrandir: doesnt seem to have worked :(
[01:38] <\sh> damn.
[01:39] <Mithrandir> dholbach: hmm, that sucks.  If you can convince elmo to run more of my code, I can just write a plugin like I wrote for -changes.
[01:39] <dholbach> i was thinking about just un-moderating the whole list
[01:40] <dholbach> because it got on my nerves
[01:40] <dholbach> (apart from everybody elses)
[01:40] <Mithrandir> you just want it moderated 'cause of spam?
[01:41] <dholbach> it was moderated, when i got hold of it, and yes, i thought that spam might be a good reason
[01:42] <dholbach> ok... i'll see you later
[01:42] <Mithrandir> sure
[01:42] <Mithrandir> just tell me if I should write the plugin
[01:42] <dholbach> it should work... somehow with that spam thingie
[01:42] <dholbach> SteveA told me to use it
[01:43] <herve> I can't find how to change the assigment in malone
[01:44] <herve> ok, found...
[02:02] <herve> did I dream or discover1 is not required anymore on ubuntu?
[02:05] <Mithrandir> it hasn't been required for a long time, iirc
[02:09] <Kyral> cya guys. I'm off to class
[02:09] <herve> I just noticed the dependency was dropped when switching to breezy
[02:26] <tseng> whiprush: what is that cross pc clipboard thing again
[02:54] <herve> bye
[02:55] <whiprush> tseng: synergy?
[03:44] <koke> hey whiprush are you going to UBZ?
[03:47] <xerxas> Hi
[03:47] <xerxas> what's going on ?
[03:49] <Treenaks> lots of partying ;)
[03:50] <xerxas> Treenaks ;)
[03:50] <xerxas> when will developpement restart ?
[03:51] <Treenaks> see topic
[03:55] <xerxas> Treenaks: you mean the REVU thing ?
[03:55] <Treenaks> oh wait, that's in -devel
[03:59] <siretart> xerxas: bug triage is also development ;)
[03:59] <siretart> xerxas: dapper is likley to open tomorrow, from what I heard. seeds have already been created
[04:05] <xerxas> siretart: dapper ?
[04:05] <xerxas> what is dapper ?
[04:06] <slomo> xerxas: breezy+1 ;)
[04:06] <xerxas> Dapper Drake , ok
[04:06] <xerxas> next release
[04:06] <xerxas> ok
[04:06] <xerxas> gone on the wiki :)
[04:08] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:08] <dholbach> re
[04:09] <Mortas> dholbach: if you have a second, I got's another question :)
[04:10] <dholbach> fire away
[04:10] <Mortas> is stuff like the comment I posted on #3208 usefull?
[04:10] <Mortas> or are there other things I should do?
[04:11] <dholbach> that's excellent
[04:11] <dholbach> thank you
[04:12] <Mortas> ok, I'll read throught the rest of the list then :)
[04:12] <Mortas> hmm apparantly this generates a post on the universe bugs list?
[04:13] <Mortas> should subscribe first then I guess
[04:14] <dholbach> you can have a look at http://lists.ubuntu.com/, how much traffic it is, before subscribing :)
[04:14] <Mortas> yeah I was reconsidering my previous statement already :)
[04:15] <bddebian> Mortas: So you are our new BugMaster? :-)
[04:16] <Mortas> I'm still in the not knowing what I've gotten myself into phase
[04:16] <dholbach> we'll try to un-moderate the list for a while and see how it copes with spam
[04:16] <Mortas> so don't enlighten me so I'll continue the boring work :)
[04:26] <tseng> whiprush: i found it
[04:26] <tseng> whiprush: using it now
[04:30] <bddebian> Mortas: :-)
[04:36] <dereks__> does the tkabber client include the tkabber plugins?
[05:06] <Riddell> who is  Sebastian Drge and did he make an mp3 musicbrainz?
[05:07] <Riddell> ah, it's slomo_
[05:11] <bddebian> Riddell: Slomo
[05:11] <bddebian> ohh, heh
[05:13] <siretart> a
[05:13] <bddebian> Later siretart
[05:36] <_Tonio_> may I require help from one of you guys ? I'm experiencing a very strange thing and I would like your point of view......
[05:39] <bddebian> _Tonio_: Shoot
[05:39] <_Tonio_> okay, I installed kubuntu on my girlfriend desktop
[05:40] <_Tonio_> she has a non lcd screen.
[05:40] <_Tonio_> everything is okay, but from time to time, when she boots, she has very little fonts.....
[05:40] <_Tonio_> she has to reboot to get the normal size.
[05:41] <_Tonio_> there is no rules, it can happen 3 times a week, everyday, or not happen for 10 days....
[05:41] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: I get that too with ubuntu breezy
[05:41] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: ah ? cool ;) Not the only one ;)
[05:42] <_Tonio_> I assume this is due to something maybe missing in xorg.conf, but what ???? I searched without any success.....
[05:42] <ogra> there was a bug in the last kdelibs upload if i grokked that right... involving font antialiasing
[05:42] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: yeah - it mostly affects my thin clients, I think something doesn't start or crashes on login
[05:43] <ogra> _Tonio_, it doesnt happen in gnome at all, i doubt xorg.conf is involved
[05:47] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: do you have use kde or gnome ?
[05:49] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: gnome, but some kde apps
[05:49] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: if it was kde I would have said kubuntu
[05:49] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: and when it happens, doesn it for all the desktop or only kde apps ?
[05:50] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: the whole desktop - I can tell because when I go to login at gdm my name is tiny
[05:50] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: so I reboot the system
[05:50] <_Tonio_> yes that's exactly the same for my girlfriends desktop.....
[05:50] <_Tonio_> and here is my last question : do you have a crt or lcd screen ?
[05:51] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: beautiful mitsubishi 1770G crt 17" flatscreen :)
[05:52] <_Tonio_> I have a crt on that machine too..... never had any problem with my lcd screens
[05:52] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: it's bloody heavy though
[05:52] <tseng> er
[05:52] <tseng> i had a 21" crt
[05:52] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: so maybe that's one of the reasons...
[05:52] <tseng> i have a 22 in front of me atm
[05:52] <tseng> *thats* heavy
[05:53] <_Tonio_> tseng: did you experience the same issue ?
[05:53] <tseng> what issue
[05:54] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: I really feel it's something not loading or crashing that causes it
[05:54] <_Tonio_> tseng: font size sometimes changing while rebooting
[05:54] <tseng> no.
[05:54] <Yagisan> tseng: boot up, and X is suddenly all mini-fonts
[05:55] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: possibly..... but well It was like that last week I completly reinstalled, fresh install, this WE, and the problem remains...
[05:56] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: to be honest - It also happened to me in hoary too
[05:56] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: restarting the system or restarting X usually cleared it up for me
[05:56] <_Tonio_> ah..... that's strange, really.....
[05:57] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: it would be a bug with some screens ???
[05:59] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: I don't know - if thats the case then all my monitors would be classed as broken
[05:59] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: possibly......
[06:00] <_Tonio_> but what would it happen on some computers and not other ones if it not a hardware issue ?
[06:02] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: well, when I ran Debian woody - It didn't happen to me
[06:08] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: here is what I found in xorg logs :
[06:08] <_Tonio_> (II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 1280 x 1024
[06:08] <_Tonio_> (==) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (75, 75)
[06:08] <_Tonio_> 75, 75 is really defined to be small..... maybe here is the problem
[06:08] <ogra> yes, should be ~96
[06:09] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: does it only happen with NVIDIA binary module ??????
[06:09] <_Tonio_> didn't try at the moment
[06:09] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: I didn't use nvidia with my woody system ...
[06:10] <_Tonio_> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[06:10] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: I see you just had the same brainwave I did
[06:11] <_Tonio_> okay, so a temorary solution could be to test with "nv"
[06:12] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: or vesa if it's too new for nv
[06:13] <_Tonio_> it is not too new (geforce 4 mx 400)
[06:16] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: nv will support that on breezy - I have one in a p2 233!
[06:16] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: apparently it is not an nvidia problem
[06:33] <shadoi> I've created e17 ubuntu 5.10 packages here: deb http://soulmachine.net/breezy unstable/
[06:36] <LaserJock> hi azeem
[06:44] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: here is a solution given to me that may work....
[06:45] <_Tonio_> forcing X to dpi 100
[06:45] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: ok - but why does it misdetect ?
[06:45] <_Tonio_> Yagisan: don't know..... certainly a problem with some screens apparently....
[06:46] <_Tonio_> this is not a very common problem so....
[06:46] <_Tonio_> what you can try is to add "-dpi 100" to ServerArgsLocal in /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc
[06:47] <_Tonio_> if that doesn't work, another solution is to disable dde in xorg.conf and manualy specify your screen's dimensions
[06:48] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: ah - I don't use kdm, but I'm sure I can find one for gdm
[06:49] <_Tonio_> gdmrc ?? ^^
[06:49] <_Tonio_> sorry I forgot that you were on gnome
[06:50] <Yagisan> _Tonio_: no worries, If you can find a solution for kde, I will find a way to do it in gnome
[06:51] <shadoi> ogra: I restructured my packages and built them on breezy, what are the chances of getting them into universe and/or sid?
[06:51] <_Tonio_> well I assume that X is launched within gdmrc too.....
[06:51] <dholbach> shadoi: for dapper they're quite well
[06:51] <_Tonio_> you may have a way to add parameters somewhere in the config file
[06:51] <dholbach> shadoi: dapper universe - sid is a different story
[06:52] <ogra> shadoi, quite good as soon as the archive opens again for dapper
[06:52] <shadoi> ok
[06:52] <shadoi> Let me know if I need to do anything to help it happen...
[06:52] <dholbach> shadoi: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU is the place :)
[06:52] <dholbach> shadoi: that's where we upload packages for review
[06:53] <shadoi> ok cool.
[06:53] <dholbach> rock :)
[06:54] <dholbach> :)
[06:54] <jamessan|work> is e17 that stable now?
[06:54] <_Tonio_> hi Daniel, fine ?
[06:54] <dholbach> _Tonio_: i'm quite fine, yes, thank you - how are you?
[06:54] <dholbach> eubuntu? :)
[06:55] <shadoi> jamessan|work: it's progressing quite rapidly.
[06:55] <dholbach> is that the strictly european version?
[06:55] <jamessan|work> shadoi: excellent.  I may have to try it again
[06:55] <_Tonio_> good ;) Just (maybe) resolved a strange bug on my girlfriend's desktop, and had a marvellous WE ;)
[06:55] <jamessan|work> last time I did, it wasn't quite usable (for me) on a day-to-day basis
[06:55] <shadoi> jamessan|work: most unstable feature right now is the integrated file manager.
[06:55] <dholbach> _Tonio_: me too, too much party, when i ask my head, but it was nice to relax a bit :)
[06:56] <Yagisan> dholbach: e17+libdvdcss2 :)
[06:56] <_Tonio_> dholbach: hehe ^^
[06:56] <jamessan|work> shadoi: ah, well that won't bother me.  I very rarely use a GUI fm
[06:56] <dholbach> libdvdcss ... erm - don't thik so :(
[06:56] <shadoi> jamessan|work: most work now is on configuration dialogs (user friendliness) and the file manager.
[06:57] <jamessan|work> shadoi: good to hear.  I've been looking forward to e17 for quite some time  :)
[06:57] <dholbach> who would kindly volunteer to rewrite UbuntuBugDay for thursday, 20th?
[06:58] <shadoi> jamessan|work: check this out: http://elive.xasein.com/misc/elpanel.avi
[06:58] <shadoi> jamessan|work: control panel going into the Elive CD.
[06:59] <ogra> dholbach, a bugday 2 days after the auto imports started ??
[06:59] <jamessan|work> oh yeah, I forgot there was a live cd to try out e17
[06:59] <dholbach> ogra: i don't see those two interrelated
[06:59] <dholbach> ogra: we have to process our bugs
[06:59] <ogra> dholbach, we'll get toins of new upstream versions first
[06:59] <dholbach> ogra: and everybody is VERY busy working on them
[07:00] <Nafallo> actually one day after dapper opens as it seems now...
[07:00] <ogra> i'd say lets settle the dust of the automerges and jump on the merge bugs first... else we'll be missing them again this release
[07:00] <dholbach> but there are quite a lot of other bugs as well
[07:01] <ogra> dholbach, and you know that UVF is planned for universe in this release ...
[07:01] <dholbach> some we can process and close with the merges
[07:01] <dholbach> i don't see this interrelated
[07:01] <ogra> so we should change startegy a bit...
[07:01] <dholbach> we have to process bugs
[07:01] <ogra> sure it is
[07:01] <dholbach> and it's a good time to get people involved
[07:01] <ogra> you need to care for everything that can get fixed through aew upstream first of all
[07:02] <ogra> s/aew/a new
[07:02] <dholbach> that's one of the thing i always have to do
[07:02] <ogra> not after UVF
[07:02] <dholbach> read the bug, understand it, check for fixes (which includes debian)
[07:02] <dholbach> we're not after uvf
[07:02] <Yagisan> dholbach: I though libdvdcss was still legal in europe
[07:02] <dholbach> so this is a good time :)
[07:02] <ogra> UVF will be earlier this time and we'll have to concentrated more o stabilization
[07:02] <dholbach> Yagisan: i don't think so
[07:02] <dholbach> ogra: so this is the time to report stuff upstream
[07:03] <ogra> so all pre UVF work should be cocentrated *now*
[07:03] <ogra> indded also looking at bugs that have their fix upstream...
[07:03] <dholbach> yeah and report new stuff upstream, so we have the change to include it in dapper
[07:04] <ogra> but if we again have 200 merge bugs left after UVF this time, we can give up...
[07:04] <dholbach> you're too pessimistic for me
[07:04] <dholbach> really
[07:04] <ogra> not at all
[07:04] <dholbach> we won't give up
[07:04] <Nafallo> europe != sweden (re: libdvdcss)
[07:04] <dholbach> that's not the MOTU spirit
[07:04] <dholbach> :)
[07:04] <ogra> we simply ignored merge bugs due to cxx transition in breezy...
[07:04] <Lathiat> Nafallo: sure but its a problem for 90% of the rest of the world
[07:04] <dholbach> yeah, that was a shame
[07:05] <dholbach> but we'll fix it up for dapper :)
[07:05] <ogra> so a lot of merged sowftware didn recieve the necessary love
[07:05] <Nafallo> Lathiat: well, that's not my problem since sweden provide the sources to compile for people :-P
[07:05] <dholbach> i'm not saying we should only follow one goal, if that's what you mean
[07:05] <ogra> and we'll have to go with dapper for at least 3 years, so it must be a lot better organized...
[07:05] <ogra> especially if the release schadule applis hard this time
[07:06] <ogra> *applies
[07:06] <dholbach> yeah, sure
[07:06] <dholbach> but i'd like to have a healthy bug community
[07:06] <dholbach> and we better start that one of early
[07:06] <ogra> dholbach, i say we should concentrate all forces on merging first...
[07:06] <dholbach> mom doesnt produce good diffs atm
[07:06] <ogra> bugfixes are allowed after UVF....
[07:07] <dholbach> and it will take QUITE a while to build all that stuff
[07:07] <Yagisan> Lathiat: actually, how I see it is, its a problem for most western countries + japan. No one else cares about it
[07:07] <dholbach> ogra: i can't wait until uvf to fix bugs
[07:07] <ogra> dholbach, thats not what i said
[07:08] <ogra> but all pre UVF work should have priority this time
[07:08] <ogra> so we go smoothly with the schedule
[07:08] <dholbach> bug forwarding included
[07:08] <ogra> sure
[07:08] <dholbach> so what is this argument about?
[07:09] <LaserJock> what do you guys think about having a MOTU-Assistant or MOTU-Helper level on contribution for Universe for people who don't want to be full fledged MOTU's?
[07:09] <ogra> prioritizing merge bugs :)
[07:09] <dholbach> ogra: i will happily make that happen, now let me please do a bug day, kthxbye :)
[07:09] <Yagisan> LaserJock - I prefer to be called freelance thanks
[07:09] <ogra> dholbach, do what you want
[07:09] <dholbach> :)
[07:09] <ogra> :)
[07:09] <Mortas> the merging start tomorrow?
[07:10] <Nafallo> Mortas: probably not.
[07:10] <Lathiat> I think the soyuz stuff is suffering a couple setbacks
[07:10] <Mortas> hmm too bad, I like loads of broken stuff to fix
[07:10] <ogra> Mortas, everything starts tomorrow... no idea if MOM is ready already for us
[07:10] <Yagisan> dholbach, ogra. Who wants to fix amule ?
[07:10] <dholbach> Yagisan: why don't you try?
[07:10] <Nafallo> ogra: soyuz is delayed it seems...
[07:11] <Yagisan> dholbach: because I can't read C
[07:11] <Nafallo> current ETA is ~Wednesday
[07:11] <dholbach> Yagisan: try, check upstream/debian's changelogs, maybe they have a fix already
[07:11] <ogra> Yagisan, you just need to find the right patch ;)
[07:11] <ogra> Nafallo, gah....
[07:12] <ogra> Nafallo, shortening the release cycle but delaying the start....
[07:12] <ogra> fun :)
[07:12] <Nafallo> ogra: hehe :-). we don't want to make soyuz destroy the archive, right? ;-)
[07:12] <LaserJock> dholbach|ogra: do you think my thought is worth discussing? or has it been discussed before? or is it just plain stupid?
[07:13] <Nafallo> insert "to" on a proper location...
[07:13] <Nafallo> :-)
[07:13] <dholbach> LaserJock: i'm not quite sure what you're talking about
[07:13] <Nafallo> or maybe not. baah. I should sleep more :-P
[07:13] <ogra> LaserJock, i guess with rainsing amount of people we'll need to organize this, yes...
[07:13] <ogra> *raising
[07:13] <Nafallo> was up all night reading SoyuzSpecs ;-)
[07:13] <ogra> LaserJock, currently all people contributing in here are on their way to become MOTU
[07:14] <LaserJock> dhobach: well, everything right now seems to be geared toward making MOTU, but what about people who don't have the knowledge or time to be MOTU
[07:14] <ogra> so we dont really have the usecase now... but i guess it will come up once
[07:14] <LaserJock> I think I would be like that
[07:14] <ogra> LaserJock, we have revu where many non MOTU supload ...
[07:15] <LaserJock> I really don't think I would make a good MOTU but I still want to contribute
[07:15] <Nafallo> LaserJock: what's the problem with the current procedure in pushing some MOTU to do the upload till you made enough to be one yourself? :-)
[07:15] <LaserJock> yes there is revu, but there isn't much for organization
[07:15] <ogra> so just get upload rights to revu...
[07:15] <ogra> we have the ubuntu-devel mailing list the wiki and this channel for organization...
[07:16] <ogra> as i said i dont see the usecase yet... but it might become something to consider in the future...
[07:16] <LaserJock> well, I just see that the MOTU's are always saying "We need more people" and the people are like, "We want to help"
[07:17] <ogra> feel free to prepare something r to bring it up in the MOTUMeeting on wednesday
[07:17] <dholbach> LaserJock: could you do a wiki page with your proposal?
[07:17] <Yagisan> LaserJock: I send my stuff to revu - when it's judged as non-shit(tm) watch me harrass and harrass until it's uploaded
[07:17] <dholbach> LaserJock: that'd be the best i guess... so we can identify problems and come up with ideas how to tackle them
[07:17] <dholbach> LaserJock: and discuss it in one of our motu meetings
[07:17] <ogra> Yagisan, else we upload it to the its-shit repo :p
[07:18] <LaserJock> Yagisan: that's my point, I think that we could have more offical structure for that kind of thing
[07:18] <ogra> LaserJock, revu is already a very good structue imho
[07:18] <LaserJock> dholbach: fine, I just wanted to know if you guys thought it would be worthy of disscussion at the MOTU meeting
[07:18] <Lathiat> Is a package that doesn't operate anymore (e.g. a gmail checker) a good candidate for -updates ?
[07:19] <LaserJock> ogra: well, I guess I am thinking more about wiki's and information
[07:19] <LaserJock> and maybe I'm just stupid ;-)
[07:19] <Yagisan> ogra: nah - some of it is tainted with an activision license that both gives and revokes re-distribution rights, that needs a licensecluebat-repo
[07:19] <ogra> Lathiat, in any case it would be one if it wipes data from your disk or something like that
[07:19] <dholbach> LaserJock: it is, but we should put more work in a proposal, to know what we're really going to do
[07:20] <Lathiat> ogra: right, it doesn't do that
[07:20] <Lathiat> ogra: its just useless
[07:20] <ogra> Lathiat, i would make such a decision based on user complaints (for my personal work)... its your call :)
[07:21] <ogra> bddebian, :P
[07:21] <Nafallo> lol
[07:21] <Lathiat> hrm, well, its fixed in breezy actually
[07:21] <Lathiat> just not in hoary
[07:21] <Lathiat> so i think i'll pass that up
[07:30] <slomo_> Riddell: not yet... i'll do it when dapper is open
[07:34] <Riddell> slomo_: cool.  probably a candidate for backports too that :)
[07:35] <slomo_> Riddell: yes... or maybe better breezy-updates? what is the policy for -updates?
[07:36] <Riddell> slomo_: updates is only very small patches, no new packages
[07:36] <ogra> slomo_, i think it must not introduce intrusive changes to the package and fx serious bugs
[07:37] <ogra> (dont ask how serious serious is ;) )
[07:37] <slomo_> hehe... i just wanted to ask that ;)
[07:37] <ogra> wiping your HD would be serious.... a missing feature wouldnt
[07:38] <slomo_> usability improvements?
[07:38] <ogra> i dont think thats serious ... but in the ed Kamion and mdz decide how serious something is
[07:38] <Mortas> that would be more of a feature improvement
[07:38] <ogra> *end
[07:39] <slomo_> ok... then i have exactly nothing atm for -updates, only for -backports ;)
[07:46] <Lathiat> we want to keep MOTU bugs assigned to motu right? (and not reassign them to us when we're working on them?)
[07:47] <bddebian> Lathiat: Ideally yes so the ML gets the mail
[07:47] <dholbach> just reassign to another team
[07:47] <dholbach> (if there is one)
[07:48] <Lathiat> nah just osmeone reassigning it to themself
[07:49] <slomo_> dholbach: in the future it would be nice to let people assing packages to themselfs... would make it much easier to find bugs one wanted to work on ;)
[07:50] <dholbach> slomo_: true that
[07:50] <dholbach> hmhmhmh
[07:50] <dholbach> it's just for the sake of the list
[07:50] <dholbach> a qa-contact like in bugzilla would be cool
[07:50] <slomo_> yes... hmm
[07:50] <dholbach> so we could still get the mails on the list
[07:50] <slomo_> or maybe cc the list?
[07:51] <dholbach> yeah that'd work too, but it wouldnt turn up in the motu bugs, i guess
[07:51] <slomo_> hmm
[07:51] <dholbach> but maybe we don't need that
[07:52] <dholbach> if assigning to oneself means: i 1) have the patch in place, 2) really really really work on it and i'm close to a solution :)
[07:52] <Lathiat> it'd still be nice if we coudl keep track of all motu related bugs
[07:52] <slomo_> hm, assigning would mean for me that this is a bug i want to take care of ;)
[07:52] <Lathiat> else bugs will get lost
[07:52] <Lathiat> it would help if you could get a list of bugs yoru subscribed too
[07:53] <Lathiat> so you know what yoru working on
[07:53] <slomo_> Lathiat: how it's done now bugs get also lost... i bet i have at least one bug lurking around which i set to accepted
[07:53] <Lathiat> slomo_: sure but they can be found still on the
[07:53] <Lathiat> motu page
[07:53] <Lathiat> if you reassign it to yourself, you cant
[07:53] <slomo_> yes but then i can find it on my page ;)
[07:54] <Lathiat> sure
[07:54] <Lathiat> but if you forget about it
[07:54] <Lathiat> or you go away
[07:54] <Lathiat> and dont do things fo ra while
[07:54] <Lathiat> its forgotten about
[07:54] <slomo_> yes... that's the problem...
[07:54] <Mortas> the idea of assigning to oneself is nice, however it will happen that someone gets bored with it and doesn't want to fix it anymore
[07:54] <Mortas> or other random reason
[07:54] <Mortas> and then it gets lost
[07:55] <Mortas> so you'll need to keep track in the general motu bug list aswell
[07:55] <Mortas> to kick the lazy one :)
[07:55] <Lathiat> bugs need to "belong" to motu
[07:55] <Lathiat> and have the bugs goto the list
[07:55] <Lathiat> and available as bugs in packages <something> by motu
[07:55] <Lathiat> an dthen i can reassign bugs to myself
[07:55] <Lathiat> if need be
[07:55] <Mortas> if someone is working on it, might aswell leave a comment stating so
[07:55] <Lathiat> without worry
[07:58] <LaserJock> what if there is Belongs To: MOTU and Assigned To: *me*  that way you have a bit of both? and *me* has to be a member of MOTU?
[08:07] <pef> have to go, bye !
[08:07] <dholbach> bye pef
[08:13] <LaserJock> is Revu only used for new packages or can it be used for patches, bug fixes, etc?
[08:13] <dholbach> both :)
[08:14] <LaserJock> anything you want uploaded, pretty much?
[08:14] <dholbach> the changelog should be very verbose about the changes
[08:15] <dholbach> so nobody has to guess your intentions
[08:15] <LaserJock> can you upload debdiffs, or is just source packages?
[08:15] <dholbach> source packages
[08:16] <LaserJock> ok, thanks
[08:29] <Mortas> dholbach: I added the page to the todo list, can you check if it's ok?
[08:30] <dholbach> Mortas: sure
[08:31] <dholbach> Mortas: looks superb
[08:31] <Mortas> ok, then I'll update the lbreakout bug with a reference to this page
[08:31] <dholbach> Mortas just created UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath
[08:32] <dholbach> if you touch a package on that list, be sure to ping upstream/debian before changing the desktop file, but all the theme guys will be happy if you change the Icon path
[08:33] <Mortas> gheh I'm almost feeling usefull here ;)
[08:34] <Mortas> added the upstream/debian note to the page
[08:34] <dholbach> :)
[08:36] <dholbach> made some additions also
[08:38] <dholbach> i suppose we'll have a DesktopIconTeam soon too :-p
[08:38] <dholbach> j/k :)
[08:39] <Mortas> ok altered my list to remove dupes and correspond with your layour
[08:39] <Mortas> layout*
[08:39] <Mortas> yay
[08:39] <Mortas> next! :)
[08:39] <ogra> dholbach, make that a subteam of the artwork team ;)
[08:39] <dholbach> merci beaucoup :)
[08:40] <dholbach> ogra: i thought a subteam of the desktopteam, to circumvent^Wensure naming confusion :-p
[08:40] <ogra> dholbach, i guess art and desktop should work tighter then :)
[08:41] <dholbach> sure :)
[08:42] <ivoks> hi
[08:44] <ivoks>  Drugi ce spustiti cijene
[08:44] <ivoks> sorry...
[08:44] <ivoks> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26935
[08:44] <ivoks> that's whay i ment :)
[08:44] <bddebian> Heya ivoks
[08:44] <ivoks> hey
[08:50] <LaserJock> dholbach: could you take a quick look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU_Apprentice_Proposal and see if it is along the lines of what you are looking for?
[08:50] <dholbach> sure
[08:51] <LaserJock> I think I am going to also add to the bottom a mock up of a MOTU Apprentice wikipage
[08:51] <Mortas> hmm wel this helps, having a bouncing mail address on launchpad while being subscribed to a filed bug
[08:52] <dholbach> LaserJock: i'll read it more properly later
[08:52] <dholbach> LaserJock: we should work on that page and discuss it in one of the next meeting
[08:52] <dholbach> s
[08:52] <LaserJock> ok, but it is along the lines of what you are wanting?
[08:54] <dholbach> LaserJock: as i said WE all should work on it :)
[08:54] <ivoks> nice idea
[08:54] <dholbach> but some ideas towards more mentoring are GOOD
[08:54] <LaserJock> dholbach: I think so too
[08:57] <ivoks> dholbach: your picture is on planet :)
[08:58] <dholbach> ivoks: yeah, jeff wanted to "show me around" :)
[08:58] <ivoks> dholbach: getting even more popular :)
[08:58] <dholbach> and i really forgot that the picture existed
[08:58] <dholbach> "popular" ;)
[08:58] <ivoks> dholbach: now whole planet knows about you :)
[10:15] <zyga> hello
[10:15] <magnusthe> hi
[10:39] <sbartleylinux> Is this where I would ask questions about universe provided packages that dont work on breezy?
[10:39] <zyga> dholbach: ping
[10:39] <sbartleylinux> or at least dont work as expected.
[10:41] <crimsun> Have you aske in #ubuntu first?
[10:41] <crimsun> asked^
[10:41] <sbartleylinux> crimsun, yes.  no reply/no knowledge.
[10:41] <crimsun> ok, shoot.
[10:41] <sbartleylinux> working with xdm.
[10:42] <sbartleylinux> have tried both server and full install.
[10:42] <sbartleylinux> xdm starts but never gives login.  just drops back to text.
[10:42] <sbartleylinux> does not seem to be accessing the /etc/X11/xdm config files at all.
[10:42] <crimsun> cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager
[10:43] <sbartleylinux> /usr/bin/X11/xdm
[10:43] <crimsun> this really belongs in #ubuntu
[10:44] <sbartleylinux> crimsun, have tried there for several days with nobody able to define a solution.
[10:44] <ajmitch> morning all
[10:44] <Mortas> 20:59 < ivoks> dholbach: now whole planet knows about you :)
[10:44] <Mortas> ehm woops
[10:44] <crimsun> morning ajmitch
[10:44] <Mortas> damned paste
[10:44] <crimsun> ajmitch: a bit early, no?
[10:45] <ajmitch> 9:45AM is early?
[10:45] <crimsun> ah
[10:45] <crimsun> yeah, it's early =)
[10:46] <\sh> ajmitch: where?
[10:46] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU_Apprentice_Proposal
[10:46] <ajmitch> I was reading the scrollback
[10:46] <ajmitch> which is why it takes me so long to say good morning in some channels ;)
[10:46] <ajmitch> hey koke
[10:46] <ajmitch> koke: got UBZ sorted now?
[10:46] <koke> hi all!
[10:47] <koke> ajmitch: yep, I'll be there :)
[10:47] <ajmitch> yay
[10:47] <koke> I've found some weird thing :(
[10:47] <ajmitch> will be good to have you round..
[10:47] <koke> try apt-cache show php-banana
[10:48] <dholbach> zyga: pong
[10:48] <Mortas> hmm a foobar package
[10:48] <ajmitch> koke: probably an old apt-get.org import
[10:48] <zyga> dholbach: since I'm new to this I'd rather ask: libnarray-ruby only appears in debian.jp, I've found some old source package and will probably be able to make it work
[10:48] <zyga> dholbach: I've tracked the package to it's home page
[10:48] <zyga> dholbach: it's all in japanese though (yay)
[10:48] <zyga> I've found a more recent version .5.8 instead of .5.4
[10:49] <zyga> I'll contact the author and last packager for help
[10:49] <zyga> I can read some japanese but only very basic stuff
[10:50] <dholbach> zyga: rock :)
[10:51] <zyga> dholbach: you do know I don't know jack about ruby, don't you?
[10:51] <dholbach> i have no idea :)
[10:51] <zyga> h,,
[10:51] <zyga> mitsuhiko^bb: hi
[10:51] <zyga> mitsuhiko^bb: ping :-)
[10:52] <zyga> when in doubt ask someone who can speak japanese ;-)
[10:52] <mitsuhiko^bb> zenrox: hi
[10:52] <mitsuhiko^bb> zyga: lol. sorry. i'ma german user ^^
[10:52] <zyga> mitsuhiko^bb: do I assume right you speak japanese?
[10:52] <zyga> :/
[10:52] <mitsuhiko^bb> zyga: but what to translate
[10:52] <zyga> http://www.ir.isas.ac.jp/~masa/ruby/
[10:53] <zyga> google translate..
[10:53] <zyga> heh
[10:53] <zyga> cool
[10:53] <zyga> http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ir.isas.ac.jp%2F%7Emasa%2Fruby%2F&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8
[10:54] <mitsuhiko^bb> It is multidimensional numeric array class. 1,2,4 byte integers, it is possible to have the single/time precision real number/complex number, and Ruby object in the element. Because of this, the calculation which handles mass numerical value even with Ruby, it reaches the point where it can make simple and high speed.
[10:54] <mitsuhiko^bb> altavista powered ^^
[10:57] <zyga> mitsuhiko: what's with the nickname BTW?
[10:58] <mitsuhiko> zyga: i like the japanise culture. because blackbird was reserved on freenode i was creative :-)
[10:58] <mitsuhiko> s/japanise/japanese
[10:59] <koke> zyga: do you have any ideas for packaging gems?
[11:00] <zyga> koke: no, I'm really new to ruby actually :-)
[11:00] <zyga> koke: that's a nice way to say I don't know ruby at all
[11:01] <koke> I have to play more with them but I don't like the idea of having another system != apt installing stuff in /usr/bin :)
[11:01] <koke> :P
[11:01] <koke> zyga: don't worry, I didn't know 2 months ago
[11:02] <zyga> koke: what are gems in one sentence?
[11:02] <mitsuhiko> sorry guys but i hate you. ubuntu works out of the box on my notebook :p i don't have to do anything. that's unfair
[11:02] <mitsuhiko> thx. you did a great job
[11:02] <dholbach> mitsuhiko: bugzilla and malone are waiting for you
[11:02] <dholbach> :)
[11:02] <mitsuhiko> dholbach: query :-)
[11:03] <zyga> mitsuhiko: I like the japanese culture too :-) I've studied japanese for one year; I know very little though
[11:03] <koke> it may sound a bit embarrassing, but I've find a bug in p0rn-comfort ;)
[11:03] <zyga> heh
[11:03] <zyga> :D
[11:05] <mitsuhiko> Oo
[11:09] <\sh> siretart: can u tell me if I'm write what I wrote just now to the java issue on backports?
[11:11] <\sh> s/write/right/ even
[11:12] <ajmitch> \sh: where? :)
[11:13] <\sh> ajmitch: on backports ml
[11:14] <ajmitch> right
[11:14] <zyga> ajmitch: why?
[11:14] <Lathiat> heh
[11:14] <Lathiat> not another one
[11:14] <Lathiat> ;p
[11:14] <ajmitch> zyga: because most teams are small enough to just sort things out informally
[11:15] <zyga> ajmitch: someone added 'we need a team leader' so I've opened this poll
[11:15] <zyga> ajmitch: anyway I do agree with you
[11:15] <ajmitch> heh
[11:15] <\sh> ajmitch: read it via gmame or archive,)
[11:15] <zyga> ajmitch: BTW: the poll is broken anyway so we need to wait untill fixes are merged into production launchpad
[11:15] <ajmitch> for the other teams it generally just happened :)
[11:15] <ajmitch> zyga: I know, I saw it in #launchpad :)
[11:28] <LaserJock> ajmitch: would you mind looking at MOTU_Apprentice_Proposal and giving me some feedback? If your not busy, that is ;-)
[11:28] <ajmitch> but I ask.. why me? ;)
[11:29] <LaserJock> well, I just was trying to get some feedback from some of the people here I know somewhat
[11:29] <ajmitch> right
[11:29] <Mortas> w00t my page got in the list without being a motu member
[11:29] <Mortas> mwuhaha :)
[11:29] <dholbach> Mortas: i un-moderated it :)
[11:29] <ajmitch> so far the main differences I see are that people would have a title :)
[11:29] <ajmitch> Mortas: your page?
[11:29] <Mortas> laserjack put the absolute path thingy in the proposal
[11:29] <Mortas> ehm laserjock even
[11:29] <dholbach> ah ok... sorry, i was mistaken
[11:30] <crimsun> I'm not really sure what MOTU_Apprentice_Proposal really does over and beyond the current
[11:30] <LaserJock> well, I guess not much but I think it might foster mentoring
[11:30] <LaserJock> and if there is a plea on ubuntuforums or something for more help
[11:30] <crimsun> right, so a title like ajmitch was saying?
[11:30] <ajmitch> at the moment we do a fair bit of mentoring, and new people are welcome to join teams or get into the action
[11:30] <tseng> we dont want to mentor anyone
[11:30] <LaserJock> it might help
[11:30] <tseng> when i say that
[11:30] <ajmitch> tseng: we still end up doing it though
[11:31] <tseng> i mean mentor in the most strict sense
[11:31] <ajmitch> right
[11:31] <Mortas> well I must say that for the rendom new guy that hasn't been talking here there isn't a good starting point on the wiki
[11:31] <tseng> ideally people show up here and get their questions answered by anyone
[11:31] <ajmitch> we generally just sit around on irc & help out
[11:31] <Mortas> and I should know as random new guy :)
[11:31] <tseng> they dont hook onto a single person
[11:31] <Mortas> there should be more 'get on irc' in there
[11:31] <tseng> i think working with everyone is better for everyone than a "mentor"
[11:31] <ajmitch> Mortas: so wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU should be cleaned up?
[11:31] <crimsun> right, mentoring is misleading, because it gives the impression that there's a one-to-one correspondence
[11:32] <LaserJock> well, it "seems" to me that people get somewhat different answers to questions that are asked here
[11:32] <Mortas> well everything became a lot clearer when I joined this channel, mainly thanks to dholbach
[11:32] <LaserJock> depending on who the ask
[11:32] <Mortas> so a bigger hint to join this channel would be nice
[11:32] <dholbach> yeah
[11:33] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so that's more of a difference of opinion within the motu group
[11:33] <tseng> difference = good
[11:33] <tseng> you get to see different methods
[11:33] <tseng> which you need...
[11:33] <tseng> every package is different
[11:33] <LaserJock> difference isn't necessary good if you are looking for consistency
[11:34] <tseng> then you are in the wrong place to be painfully truthful
[11:34] <Mortas> well my guess would be that there are a lot of people who would like to join, but are afraid to ask where to start because they've gotten used to a flame by now
[11:34] <crimsun> dholbach: perhaps we should state up front on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU that MOTU and #ubuntu-motu are strongly linked
[11:34] <tseng> no 2 packages are consistant
[11:34] <dholbach> crimsun: yeah
[11:34] <LaserJock> well, for instance, we have  Guidelines for using dpatch on the meeting agenda
[11:34] <Mortas> so some generic things like package cleanup or other simple stuff should be on the wiki as a starting point for new people
[11:34] <Mortas> with an 'ask X on irc for more information if you get stuck'
[11:34] <tseng> LaserJock: i think you are reaching too far to justify your conclusion
[11:35] <dholbach> and we should have a wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURoundTrip, which shows people around
[11:35] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, because use of dpatch is ok in some situations but not all
[11:35] <LaserJock> I think my problem is that I didn't have access to IRC for a long time
[11:35] <Mortas> good point dholbach, there should be atleast a few basic tutorials or single page with links to information
[11:35] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but the MOTU are making a "best use" policy on that, correct?
[11:35] <Mortas> including for example packaging guidelines, and a link to the motu bugs on linkpad
[11:36] <Mortas> ehm launchpad even :)
[11:36] <dholbach> we have PackagingTips
[11:36] <dholbach> but it's not entirely complete :)
[11:36] <ajmitch> and we'll probably link intro developer docs up there
[11:36] <tseng> if you guys want to organize the docs, great :)
[11:36] <ajmitch> LaserJock: do you think a policy on dpatch is needed?
[11:37] <LaserJock> ok, well maybe what I am seeing is not very common and I should just shut up
[11:37] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well there has been some complaints that there is some excessive use
[11:37] <Mortas> ok as a total noob I got to the wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU page because I saw it on the participate page on the ubuntu site
[11:37] <ajmitch> yes
[11:38] <tseng> there are flames against ubuntu developers from debian all the time
[11:38] <ajmitch> LaserJock: which I'm going to talk about at the meeting
[11:38] <Mortas> but from that page you got the tips page, and the developer resources I would look at
[11:38] <Mortas> and that's basically it
[11:38] <Mortas> not really enough info if you don't know where to look
[11:38] <ajmitch> Mortas: what else do you suggest?
[11:38] <ajmitch> dholbach: as I said to ogra, the time is right to put out a recruitment email to -devel & -users
[11:39] <dholbach> not only one ;)
[11:39] <Mortas> I would suggest to combine the wannabe tips and resources pages a bit
[11:39] <LaserJock> ok, here are my 2 main complaints. 1) MOTU documentation is sometimes scattered and hard to find  2) what about people who want to contribute but not be MOTU?
[11:40] <Mortas> to make a list of pages with references to package building, a summary of how the bug systems works, a generic bug triaging guide
[11:40] <LaserJock> maybe the Apprentice concept is not what I am looking for
[11:40] <Mortas> maybe a short intro to the regulars around here
[11:40] <LaserJock> Mortas: well, that is what I have in the mockup in my proposal
[11:41] <Mortas> making it a bit more of a 'Welcome to our IRC channel' page, with basically a FAQ and Usefull links section
[11:41] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I think that what I was thinking might help with the recruitment
[11:41] <crimsun> LaserJock: RE: (2) there's an entire page on participating: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/
[11:41] <dredg> urgh i think my eyes are going to start bleeding
[11:41] <Mortas> and maybe a list of 'Motu and non-motu fun projects to work on'
[11:42] <bddebian> Fun?? ;-)
[11:42] <ajmitch> bddebian: get back to work! ;)
[11:42] <crimsun> certainly bddebian could use help with all those desktop bugs we're going to punt his way
[11:42] <Mortas> Fun aka they're noobs so don't know better, let's give them the boring janitor like jobs mwuahaha page
[11:42] <LaserJock> crimsun: yes but that is not very MOTU specific and it doesn't seem to have specific things that need to be done
[11:42] <crimsun> ;-)
[11:42] <ajmitch> crimsun: s/desktop//
[11:42] <crimsun> hehe
[11:43] <crimsun> LaserJock: but why does it have to be MOTU-specific?
[11:43] <LaserJock> crimsun: well it doesn't have to be, but I think it makes sense to have a MOTU specific one
[11:44] <crimsun> MOTU tends to deal with packaging
[11:44] <Mortas> well, if you look at the participation page it comes down to 'join the ubuntu-devel mailing list' or 'join motu'
[11:44] <bddebian> Bah bddebian is worthless :)
[11:44] <Mortas> people are afraid of talking on a mailing list if they've been around previous linux development groups
[11:45] <Mortas> aka <insert flamewar here>
[11:45] <Mortas> the whole 'yes we're a friendly community thing' doesn't show on most of the dev lists
[11:45] <Mortas> more like 'rtfm stfu n00b'
[11:45] <ajmitch> Mortas: oh we try to keep flames to a minimum around here
[11:45] <bddebian> Mortas: :-)
[11:45] <Mortas> yes which is an exception sadly enough
[11:45] <crimsun> well, there are 87 nicks in here, but only about a dozen actually pipe up
[11:46] <LaserJock> crimsun: sleeping maybe?
[11:46] <Mortas> hmm strange people who live in a different timezone
[11:46] <crimsun> I think we certainly can make the tie between MOTU and #ubuntu-motu more prominent
[11:46] <Mortas> burns them!
[11:46] <Mortas> no wait :)
[11:46] <Mortas> yes I think that would make it a lot easier
[11:46] <ajmitch> we can probably have more of a gentle introduction of things to do on the wiki
[11:47] <Mortas> although of course to be honest most of the wannabee linux distro hackers are shy
[11:47] <ajmitch> dholbach: taking notes? ;)
[11:47] <Mortas> but that's not our problem :)
[11:47] <ajmitch> true
[11:47] <Mortas> ehm same here, I just joined this afternoon
[11:47] <Mortas> and I've been ranting a bit too much maybe :)
[11:47] <LaserJock> ok, well this proposal is just they way I would got about getting involved, but if other people see it differently I am certianly not stuck on the idea
[11:47] <Mortas> plus spammed the wiki and bugs list
[11:47] <LaserJock> I
[11:48] <LaserJock> I'm not even close to being a MOTU so you guys can just tell me to shut up ;-)
[11:48] <ajmitch> LaserJock: critical discussion is good :)
[11:49] <dholbach> ok guys, i'm off to bed - have a nice evening :)
[11:49] <crimsun> night daniel
[11:49] <dholbach> ajmitch: no, i was a bit too tired for that, sorry
[11:49] <dholbach> night daniel
[11:50] <LaserJock> I think the big thing for me is that I learn a lot by reading (more so than on IRC)
[11:50] <ajmitch> dholbach: j/k, I was logging & will look over what we discussed
[11:50] <dholbach> rock
[11:50] <LaserJock> gnight dholbach
[11:50] <dholbach> :)
[11:50] <ajmitch> dholbach: good night :)
[11:50] <dholbach> night andrew, night LaserJock
[11:52] <LaserJock> do you guys think that there are many non-MOTU are here that wouldn't become MOTU given the chance?
[11:52] <LaserJock> because of time constraints or whatever
[11:53] <ajmitch> possibly
[11:53] <ajmitch> although the bar to entry in't that high
[11:53] <LaserJock> see, that is kinda where I am at and maybe that is why I like the idea of having MOTU Apprentices
[11:53] <ajmitch> we already have a number of lapsed MOTUs due to time commitments or otherwise
[11:54] <dredg> like me
[11:54] <LaserJock> well, if you have 2 bars, one can be quite a bit higher
[11:55] <LaserJock> I was kinda thinking about if a lot of people get recruited to MOTU then it might be harder to ensure quality
[11:55] <dredg> though i'm now in a position where i'll soon be able to contribute to ubuntu again
[11:57] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so what do you suggest is possible for apprentices? since they wouldn't be able to upload directly
[11:57] <LaserJock> basicly, not much would be different just organized more
[11:57] <ajmitch> which is pretty much the only bar we have separating MOTU from non-MOTU
[11:57] <ajmitch> and that is set by the TB
[11:58] <LaserJock> they would be in contact with their team leader and they would be using REVU
[11:58] <ajmitch> they can do that now
[11:58] <ajmitch> we have non-MOTU forming teams
[11:58] <LaserJock> right, I am not saying anything radical, I don't think
[11:59] <LaserJock> I am just saying, make it more organized
[11:59] <LaserJock> It seems to be working fine now
[11:59] <LaserJock> but what about in the future?
[11:59] <Mortas> more like writing it down for the future then?
[11:59] <LaserJock> s/fine/mostly/
[11:59] <ajmitch> then how would one qualify to be an apprentice?
[12:00] <LaserJock> I'm not sure but I think that being an Ubuntit with a signed GPG key would be good
[12:00] <LaserJock> basicly what ever you need for REVU
[12:00] <Kyral> okay...
[12:00] <Kyral> are the mirrors like crapped?
[12:01] <Kyral> 'cause I was helping someone install Ubuntu and when I tried to install like dev libs, I got 404 Errors
[12:01] <ajmitch> Kyral: not that I'm aware of
[12:01] <LaserJock> I just think it might help the MOTU keep better track of what the non-MOTU are doing
[12:01] <Kyral> Well, trying to install Java-Package gave him a 404
[12:02] <ajmitch> which is why we have teams for those specific areas