[03:43] <jsgotangco> hi all
[03:43] <mhz> jsgotangco: I subscribed to ML and read about DocumentationTeam. Also i read about a WikiTeam
[03:43] <jsgotangco> well there's a small group that actually clean up the wiki (not change content)
[03:44] <mhz> is that part of same ML?
[03:44] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:44] <jsgotangco> its a subgroup of the docteam
[03:44] <mhz> oh, I see.
[03:45] <mhz> jsgotangco: so, basically, any time I clean up wiki pages towards more wiki like code, I am being part of WikiTeam ? :)
[03:46] <jsgotangco> sure coordinate with people like mdke and robitaille they're wiki people...
[03:46] <jsgotangco> and Madpilot
[03:46] <Madpilot> mhz: you can't escape being part of the WikiTeam! ;)
[03:46] <mhz> lol
[03:47] <jsgotangco> ahh i see dapper seeds...
[03:48] <mhz> Madpilot: when you specify on WikiTeam ToDo's " Convert all pages to MoinMoin Syntax and deactivate the other input methods"...
[03:48] <mhz> especifically, does that involve CamelCasingPages?
[03:49] <mhz> jsgotangco: seeds? already?
[03:49] <jsgotangco> not necessarily
[03:49] <Madpilot> mhz: as far as I know, that's basically what it means, yes.
[03:49] <jsgotangco> sometimes you'll get ridiculous titles with CameCase
[03:50] <Madpilot> there doesn't seem to be a lot of old-wiki markup left
[03:50] <mhz> Madpilot: but based on the ML discussion and my talk to mdke, CamelCase is not a real favourite here.
[03:50] <mhz> exactly
[03:51] <mhz> So, how should one understand this?
[03:51] <jsgotangco> CamelCase is useful but can be limiting
[03:51] <mhz> jsgotangco: i agree
[03:52] <mhz> so, basically, it's the 'librarian' personal judgment to decide?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> nice
[03:57] <mhz> jsgotangco: unvelievably.. I agree with you on not using Moin to fulfil the Ubuntu goal.
[03:58] <mhz> So now, soon enough, I'll have to learn DocBook and Bazaar
[05:22] <jsgotangco> bleahhh
[05:23] <Madpilot> hmm?
[05:23] <jsgotangco> something is borked in kubuntu...
[05:23] <jsgotangco> it doesn't even load my usb stick
[05:25] <jsgotangco> its still too loud too
[05:25] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:25] <Madpilot> Kubuntu is too loud? huh?
[05:26] <jsgotangco> i should disable the sound events
[05:34] <mhz> jsgotangco: is kde set to 'auto-mount' or manual?
[05:35] <jsgotangco> its supposed to auto-mount dohhhh
[05:35] <jsgotangco> the previous version did
[05:35] <mhz> could you try 'manula' mounting?
[05:35] <mhz> 'manula' = manual
[05:37] <jsgotangco> i'll try that later
[05:37] <jsgotangco> need to sort things out first with the kubuntu docs (reviewing them now)
[05:38] <jsgotangco> the kde docs are very nicely formatted
[05:38] <jsgotangco> Automounting
[05:39] <jsgotangco> If you are sick of hunting for where your CD-ROM and Memory stick are setup, in Kubuntu 5.10, these are automounted for ease of use.
[05:39] <jsgotangco> An error occurred while loading media:/sda1:
[05:39] <jsgotangco> The file or folder media:/sda1 does not exist.
[05:39] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:39] <mhz> hehehe
[05:39] <mhz> lol
[05:40] <jsgotangco> oh my god Katapult is great
[05:40] <mhz> AFAIK, it shoul not exist when we talk about automounting
[05:40] <mhz>  /media/something should be autogenerated
[05:40] <mhz> right?
[05:44] <jsgotangco> right
[08:03] <spear> hi !
[08:23] <jsgotangco> hi there
[08:24] <spear> :)
[08:25] <spear> i'm trying to grab documentation about usplash from the development team
[08:25] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[08:25] <jsgotangco> documentation is always welcome
[08:25] <jsgotangco> :)
[08:25] <jsgotangco> what we lack at the moment are developer docs
[08:25] <jsgotangco> (but most debian docs apply)
[08:26] <jsgotangco> you might be interested to join in the meeting on the 21st at 14UTC
[08:28] <spear> i belong to the french translation team, so partly documentation, but i'll send feedback if i get some :)
[08:30] <spear> i'm requesting information about Usplash
[08:30] <spear> i needed to install it on a home built kernel, but it's so poorly documented i did't know what the prerequisites are ???
[08:31] <Madpilot> hi robitaille
[08:31] <spear> i have the information :)
[08:32] <robitaille> Hello Madpilot 
[08:34] <robitaille> I still can't believe that the way to list to Lessig talk on free culture is via a flash presentation (http://lessig.org/freeculture/)
[08:34] <robitaille> the best way...alternate ways are via mp3 and powerpoint slides...
[08:35] <Madpilot> oops. So much for 'free culture', hmmm?
[08:37] <robitaille> since my "free week" is up on my laptop, maybe I should reinstall flash just for this.
[08:40] <rob^> hi
[08:40] <Madpilot> robitaille: so how did your "free week" go?
[08:41] <robitaille> it was fine.  I'm goingb to briefly blog abo0ut before gonig to bed.  The only thing I notice was flash; for that presenation, and a couple of other web sites I visited.  Everything else I used was available in the main and universe repos.
[08:44] <Burgundavia> robitaille, Lessig also uses a non-free wiki
[09:07] <sladen> spear: I don't know there is much.  there is the specs and the source code
[09:11] <spear> i asked the development team : all that is needed is framebuffer & initramfs in the kernel
[09:13] <spear> Hi Paul, thought you were in Finland or something like that ?
[09:16] <spear> i wanted to contact you about Usplash, visiting you homepage, but i thought you were busy, or maybe i'm too shy :D
[09:18] <sladen> spear: if you looked at my away message, you probably noticed that I'm currently in Helsinki ;-)
[09:19] <sladen> spear: what would you like?
[09:20] <spear> i only wanted to know about Usplash what the prerequisites were once you use a home-built kernel (not an Ubuntu all made kernel) ; but i asked to the development channel, excusing about annoying them, and they kindly told me that in a new kernel, initramfs and framebuffer are the only required things that need to be activated in the kernel for usplash to work
[09:22] <sladen> there is nothing in the kernel at all for usplash
[09:22] <sladen> usplash == user-splash
[09:22] <spear> :D
[09:22] <sladen> done entirely in userspace
[09:22] <sladen> all it wants is a framebuffer
[09:22] <spear> darn, so these options aren't required either ?
[09:23] <sladen> vga16fb (16 colours) is used because that's the only one that also gives us hibernate and suspend
[09:23] <sladen> what options?
[09:23] <spear> kernel options ?
[09:23] <spear> frambuffer & initramfs have to be activated ?
[09:23] <sladen> you need to pass the 'splash' otherwise usplash doesn't know that it should start
[09:23] <sladen> and you need to pass 'vga=' so that the kernel knows which video mode to use
[09:24] <sladen> ...not all of the options on the commandline are used by the kernel, several are passed through to the programs starting up the system
[09:25] <spear> i think that, like many, things that got me confused about Usplash is that i looked after splash things, and read about bootsplash, and as mentioned on the dev channel, i should forget everything about bootsplash (kernel patches, options in the kernel) because it has nothing to do with Usplash
[09:25] <sladen> correct
[09:26] <spear> i'll try to be clear and repeat it on our french sections : usplash has nothing to do with bootsplash (and it is not a fork)
[09:26] <sladen> oui
[09:26] <spear> :)
[09:26] <spear> merci Paul pour votre patience
[09:26] <sladen> spear: merci, et pardon je petite Francais ;-)
[09:27] <spear> :) thanks Paul
[09:28] <spear> can i say in the post i contacted you and you clarified things or should i only mention i found the answer on the channel ?
[09:29] <spear> (the irc channel, not on a ferry boat bringing me to UK to ask you directly the question (and as you're in Helskinki ...))
[09:29] <sladen> spear: I don't mind
[09:29] <sladen> :)
[09:30] <sladen> sur la Marche dans la Eurostar
[09:30] <sladen> l'Eurostar I think
[09:30] <spear> la Manche !
[09:30] <spear> marche is " step "
[09:31] <spear> i'll take the Eurostar next week to visit London :)
[09:31] <spear> I livein Lille
[09:31] <sladen> ooh, I pass through there from time-to-time.  Normally to/from Brussels.
[09:32] <sladen> and I have a friend in Gent, so if I leave it too late to go Gent->Brussel I take the slow train across the border (Toursca?) and then try to blag my way on at Lille
[09:33] <spear> Gent is a hard time because not many speak french there ...
[09:34] <spear> i remember, years ago, i was called (am a technician) to fix a computer in a shop selling Whool ... the employee didn't speak french, and MS-DOS was in flamand (kinda dutch) ... nightmare :)
[09:36] <spear> what's the weather like in Helsinki ?
[10:15] <spear> so
[10:15] <jsgotangco> so?
[10:15] <spear> :)
[10:15] <spear> soso
[10:23] <spear> thanks, bye !
[05:37] <silbs> hi folks
[05:37] <silbs> is there any doc on the oem installer? couldn't find it on the wiki
[06:16] <mdke> silbs, don't think so
[06:16] <silbs> mdke: thanks
[06:22] <jjesse> argh froud pisses me off sometimes (see his last email)
[06:22] <mdke> silbs, np sorry i didn't have a better answer :)
[06:22] <mdke> jjesse, yes, speak to Riddell and sort it out
[06:22] <mdke> there is no point allowing him to make "plans" about kubuntu documentation without going through the people who are doing the work (yourself and Riddell)
[06:23] <jjesse> mdke:  working on a reply to the group and copying Riddell  in on it
[06:23] <mdke> k
[06:26] <Riddell> hmm?
[06:27] <jjesse> frustrating email to the doc list, i'll forward it on to you
[06:29] <jjesse> Riddell:   did you merge branches/breezy/kde back to trunk/kde?
[06:29] <Riddell> jjesse: nope, I'll try and do that now
[06:31] <jjesse> what's going on with the previews on doc.ubuntu.com not working for any of tthem
[06:33] <mdke> not working in what sense?
[06:33] <apokryphos> check the links
[06:33] <mdke> ah i see
[06:33] <mdke> fucking hell
[06:33] <mdke> someone has changed the index.html
[06:34] <mdke> mental note: get backups
[06:38] <mdke> ok will sort it at some stage
[06:44] <jjesse> apokryphos: just submitted your patch
[06:44] <apokryphos> cool, thanks
[06:45] <apokryphos> Not sure if you guys want to use it, but on kde docs we have a docbook sanitizer which comes in very handy (and you could use): http://englishbreakfastnetwork.org/sanitizer/
[06:45] <apokryphos> not *as* useful since your markup is a *lot* less strict than the kde docbook, but it could be good for a consistency with particular word-spellings etc
[06:45] <jjesse> apokryphos:  thanklook into its ill 
[06:46] <mdke> bookmarked
[06:47] <jjesse> me as well
[07:14] <WaterSevenUb> hi
[07:15] <WaterSevenUb> jbailey, could you please look to http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18050
[07:22] <Riddell> jjesse: I got distracted by 3.5beta2 and I'm off out now but poke me if I don't put them in svn this evening
[07:23] <jjesse> Riddell: no worries is it easy to upgrade to kde 3.5 beta 2?
[07:31] <WaterSevenUb> jbailey, I'll ping you tomorrow... g go..
[07:33] <jbailey> I've taken 18050, I'll look at it.
[09:40] <mdke> hi jjesse 
[09:49] <froud> mdke: ping
[09:52] <mdke> hi
[09:52] <froud> I am concerned about branches/breezy and trunk drift
[09:53] <mdke> ok
[09:53] <froud> it's getting hard to merge back to trunk
[09:53] <mdke> getting?
[09:53] <mdke> nothing has changed really in the branch
[09:53] <froud> yah the number of conflicts arising in increasing
[09:54] <mdke> ok
[09:54] <mdke> well feel free to help out with the merge
[09:54] <froud> the branch was created at 1771
[09:54] <mdke> will you be involved in -docs stuff in the future?
[09:55] <froud> as the gap between 1771 and HEAD grows it will be more and more difficult to resolve the problems
[09:55] <froud> I am going to try merge back now
[09:55] <mdke> please speak to jbailey before doing that
[09:55] <froud> you can still use branches/breezy
[09:55] <mdke> sure i know
[09:55] <froud> just we need to merge back to trunk more often
[09:56] <froud> is jbailey working in trunk on something?
[09:56] <froud> ping jbailey 
[09:56] <froud> :-( Oh no
[09:57] <froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca/about-ubuntu-ca.omf
[09:57] <froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca/Makefile
[09:57] <froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca
[09:57] <froud> D trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/ca
[09:57] <froud> error (1)
[09:57] <froud> that's the second time it has failed
[09:57] <froud> Arhgghh
[09:57] <mdke> what is the problem?
[09:58] <froud> was anyone taking care of the branches/breezy to trunk diff
[09:58] <mdke> i think that jeff will do it
[09:59] <froud> when last did he try do it
[09:59] <froud> I cant get the merge to work
[09:59] <froud> svn merge -r 1771:HEAD https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy trunk
[09:59] <mdke> he may not have tried yet
[09:59] <mdke> froud, you didn't answer my question about working on -docs in the future
[09:59] <froud> We may have a problem :-(
[10:00] <froud> I do stuff when I can and when I see a way to do so without conflict
[10:00] <froud> my itches are not those of the others
[10:00] <mdke> true
[10:01] <mdke> like "i am planning to do x, y, z with kubuntu-docs"
[10:01] <froud> what do you mean?
[10:01] <froud> x y z ?
[10:01] <froud> Ah you mean fork it out
[10:02] <mdke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-October/003901.html
[10:02] <froud> I just feel that kubuntu-docs does not do well in ubuntu
[10:02] <froud> the people here are focused on ubuntu not kubuntu
[10:02] <mdke> true
[10:02] <froud> from the past releases experience they dont care much for kubuntu
[10:03] <mdke> but your sudden appearance after several months of silence just saying "I am forking kubuntu docs and making them a subset of upstream kde" is odd
[10:03] <froud> as a result newbies comming to do kubuntu work are often left unloved
[10:03] <mdke> especially after the hard work of jjesse and Riddell 
[10:03] <froud> no I have discussed this with kubuntu devel
[10:04] <froud> mdke: Riddell should remember me discussing the problems with kubuntu docs in Ubuntu svn
[10:05] <froud> the aim is to work in the good of kubuntu-docs
[10:05] <froud> its not a negative thing
[10:05] <froud> the sources will be open
[10:05] <froud> as they must
[10:05] <froud> and people who work only on kubuntu can get bandwdith
[10:06] <froud> The breaking of faqguide profiles was a big problem
[10:06] <mdke> whatever
[10:07] <froud> mdke: can you really say that staying in the ubuntu svn will benefit kubuntu-docs?
[10:07] <mdke> sure
[10:07] <mdke> the svn is completely irrelevant
[10:07] <froud> people like Riddell and jjesse can continue in another repository
[10:07] <mdke> there is nothing to stop the two trees from being separate
[10:07] <mdke> but there is absolutely not one single reason to have 2 repositories
[10:08] <froud> mdke: see this and tell me so https://mirror1.cvsdude.com/trac/techdocs/turbocash
[10:09] <mdke> ok i've had enough
[10:10] <froud> OK
[10:10] <froud> well, hop you will be OK with the merge back to trunk
[10:10] <mdke> thanks
[10:10] <froud> bye
[10:57] <thechitowncubs> any of you use Network Profiles?
[11:35] <mdke> no more linode slowness for us!
[11:35] <thechitowncubs> neato
[11:35] <mdke> hi thechitowncubs 
[11:36] <mdke> thechitowncubs, did you see the recent stuff I posted to the list about the wiki, specifically wiki forum relations?
[11:39] <thechitowncubs> mdke: i'm reading it now
[11:39] <mdke> cool
[11:40] <mdke> thechitowncubs, basically the idea is to clean up the forum page and to make a decent and simple wiki guide
[11:41] <thechitowncubs> ya sounds good
[11:41] <thechitowncubs> i'll check out the Draft page
[11:41] <mdke> good on ya
[11:42] <mdke> are you still doing wiki work?
[11:42] <thechitowncubs> mdke: every once and a while
[11:42] <mdke> cool
[11:43] <mdke> thechitowncubs, can I ask you about the LP wiki team?
[11:43] <thechitowncubs> mdke: alrighty
[11:44] <mdke> thechitowncubs, who approved SteveMyers?
[11:45] <mdke> i think we need to set up a scheme for approval, to try and encourage people to get in touch with the docteam mailing list if they do wiki work/join that team
[11:45] <thechitowncubs> I approved him, has he done something wrong?
[11:45] <mdke> yeah
[11:46] <mdke> he did loads of random editing on the wiki, deleted our comments on his homepage, and hasn't answered my emails
[11:46] <mdke> in general, never contacted the doc team at all
[11:47] <thechitowncubs> Wow, do you want me to do anything about it?
[11:47] <mdke> IMO if we want to use the LP team for a concrete reason, I think we should use it to encourage people to come forward and engage in dialogue before approving them
[11:47] <mdke> most LP teams have a some barrier to entry
[11:47] <thechitowncubs> ya, sounds good, at the time when i got the email I hadn't been in touch for a while
[11:48] <mdke> that could be ours
[11:48] <ajmitch> eg MOTUs have to go through the TB grilling
[11:48] <mdke> also, perhaps saying that they have read and understood the guide when we finalise it
[11:48] <ajmitch> so a doc team grilling should be a good step
[11:48] <mdke> ajmitch, ++
[11:48] <mdke> not a grilling, just a "come and talk to us"
[11:48] <thechitowncubs> That was the original reason for the approval scheme but I slipped a bit
[11:48] <mdke> because that SteveMyers guy really has ignored all our efforts to involve him
[11:48] <ajmitch> well, grilling in the sense of 'what do you want to do, and how?'
[11:49] <mdke> also read his homepage on the wiki
[11:49] <mdke> it contains a number of untruths (Ubuntu Forum Staff) and some weird stuff
[11:49] <mdke> ajmitch, yeah the translation teams also have a barrier to entry too
[11:50] <thechitowncubs> mdke: thats really odd
[11:50] <ajmitch> his writing skills are poor on his own wiki page
[11:50] <mdke> yeah, perhaps disactivate him with a nice message to get in touch with us at the docteam list
[11:50] <mdke> ajmitch, you should see the wiki pages he's created ;)
[11:50] <ajmitch> mdke: I shudder to think..
[11:51] <thechitowncubs> mdke: no problem
[11:51] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostFix
[11:51] <ajmitch> CamelCase & all?
[11:51] <mdke> it gets worse as you go down
[11:51] <ajmitch> oh dear
[11:51] <mdke> i started tidying up the top and then just gave up
[11:51] <mdke> gtg to bed now
[11:51] <ajmitch> eek
[11:52] <ajmitch> that's one scary howto
[11:52] <mdke> lol
[11:52] <mdke> compare and contrast with this, by a complete newcomer who announced it nicely on the mailing list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mailman
[11:52] <mdke> (bed)
[11:53] <thechitowncubs> Alright I deactivated, we'll see if he really does want to get involved.