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| cyphase | hey everyone | 04:06 |
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| lordk4rf | waiting for the meeting too? | 05:13 |
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| \sh | evening world | 09:49 |
| Loiosh | Good evening! | 09:50 |
| ajmitch | hi | 09:51 |
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| pitti | Hi | 09:59 |
| ajmitch | hello pitti | 10:00 |
| bddebian | Heya pitti | 10:00 |
| sabdfl | evening all | 10:00 |
| bddebian | Hello sabdfl | 10:00 |
| mvo | hi | 10:03 |
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| mdz | good morning all | 10:03 |
| sabdfl | hey mdz | 10:04 |
| mdz | do we have a Keybuk today? | 10:04 |
| sabdfl | keybuk? | 10:04 |
| Loiosh | Goood mornin' | 10:04 |
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| mdz | I'll SMS | 10:04 |
| pitti | Hi mdz | 10:04 |
| sabdfl | after developer candidates, we have mjg59's Q&A, and Any Other Business | 10:05 |
| sabdfl | ok, should we get going? | 10:06 |
| mdz | we could, or we could give Keybuk a few minutes to turn up | 10:07 |
| sabdfl | on the https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members page i see only tomrules345 and Farias who are new | 10:07 |
| ajmitch | benjamin montgomery has been unable to attend TB meetings due to time | 10:07 |
| ogra | Keybuk was around earlier | 10:08 |
| Nettobr | Good Evening 2 all, gotta go | 10:08 |
| === pitti discovers that we have two mdzs according to https://launchpad.net/people/techboard | ||
| mdz | the launchpad team infrastructure seems to be working well, but I think we need more process around it | 10:08 |
| jbailey | pitti: launchpad has some issue around renames. Known bug. | 10:09 |
| pitti | I know, it's just funny | 10:09 |
| mdz | quite a few folks seem to drop by the web page and apply for membership to one of the dev teams without knowing that there is more they need to do | 10:09 |
| mdz | sabdfl: is there a way we can add some instructions at that point? | 10:09 |
| bddebian | mdz: Agreed | 10:09 |
| ogra | sabdfl, but there are some who couldnt attend the last meetings... | 10:09 |
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| mjg59 | There's two of me in Launchpad, too | 10:10 |
| sabdfl | mdz: anything is possible. you mean a "message on subscription page" attribute? definitely feasible | 10:10 |
| sabdfl | as a general rule its best to add all of your email addresses to LP, so it does not create new you's when it sees you under a different name | 10:10 |
| jbailey | Maybe have something like the Debian NM concept where you get someone to sponsor your name to the team? | 10:10 |
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| === ogra is SO PROUD http://www.stroven.org/blog/?postid=63 | ||
| bddebian | Actually I still am not a member of Ubuntu Members apparently?? | 10:11 |
| jbailey | advocate. | 10:11 |
| ogra | :-D | 10:11 |
| sabdfl | well, we can make them invitation-only teams | 10:11 |
| bddebian | jbailey: :-) | 10:11 |
| mdz | sabdfl: oh, didn't know that | 10:11 |
| sabdfl | but then the admins have to do the work | 10:11 |
| mdz | sabdfl: that would be better | 10:11 |
| mdz | sabdfl: can it be such that any member of the team can invite someone? | 10:11 |
| ajmitch | jbailey: next you'll want AMs as well :) | 10:11 |
| sabdfl | mdz: not currently | 10:11 |
| mdz | since all of those folks have been through the process, they can provide guidance | 10:12 |
| bddebian | ajmitch: Heh | 10:12 |
| sabdfl | at the moment "invite" == "approve", and is admins only | 10:12 |
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| mdz | ah | 10:12 |
| jbailey | ajmitch: I've dragged enough people kicking and screaming through that process to not want to replicate it. =) | 10:12 |
| ivoks | ogra: :) | 10:12 |
| mdz | so far, it seems like most of the people who have applied through launchpad never actually turn up | 10:12 |
| sabdfl | for the moment, a message-to-potential-subscribers will do | 10:12 |
| === sistpoty is here too | ||
| \sh | sistpoty: nice :) | 10:13 |
| sistpoty | hi folks ;) | 10:13 |
| bddebian | Heya sistpoty | 10:13 |
| sabdfl | i've often thought we should have a "new team members" team, that can have more frequent meetings, and approve people | 10:13 |
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| ogra | yay sistpoty !!! | 10:13 |
| ajmitch | so far it seems that most don't understand the process or read the wiki pages that link to it | 10:13 |
| mdz | ok, I guess we need to move along without Keybuk | 10:13 |
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| sabdfl | but then, having every new dev come through the TB is a good thing too | 10:13 |
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| sabdfl | hey seb | 10:13 |
| seb128 | hi sabdfl | 10:13 |
| seb128 | hi everybody | 10:13 |
| sabdfl | ok, are there any developer candidates here now? | 10:13 |
| ogra | sabdfl, sistpoty | 10:14 |
| === sistpoty is StefanPotyra | ||
| sabdfl | ah, welcome sistpoty | 10:14 |
| sabdfl | three-line summary? | 10:14 |
| ogra | who really deserves it to finally get approved | 10:14 |
| Mortas | if you need more candidates I can put myself on the list, but don't think I've done enough to be eligable for the process | 10:14 |
| sabdfl | Mortas: thanks :-) | 10:14 |
| ogra | Mortas, you need to be a member first | 10:14 |
| ajmitch | sabdfl: we've also got some absent who have been unable to be here again | 10:14 |
| sabdfl | ajmitch: timezone issues? | 10:14 |
| Mortas | see that's what I mean :) | 10:14 |
| ajmitch | sabdfl: seems to be | 10:15 |
| sabdfl | ok, maybe we can have a special meeting of the TB for dev appointment at different times | 10:15 |
| sistpoty | ok... what i've done: fixed many things... what i plan: 1) revu2 2) work on motu-games and if time left, 3) eventually found a motu-haskell group... what should the third line be about again? | 10:15 |
| sabdfl | will help to have more people on the TB too | 10:15 |
| mdz | sabdfl: not when you only nominate people on UK time ;-) | 10:16 |
| \sh | sabdfl: sistpoty is one of the guys who actually brought revu1 to life | 10:16 |
| ajmitch | and one of the people that fought through the ghc mess :) | 10:16 |
| sabdfl | sistpoty: tell me about motu-games? | 10:16 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: siretart invited me to join... and I found quite a few promising games on the page of a library (just looking which one it was) | 10:17 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: so maybe i could get some of these to dapper which are not packaged yet | 10:18 |
| mdz | sistpoty: is there a list? | 10:18 |
| sabdfl | can anybody comment on sistpoty's packaging style, and quality of work? | 10:18 |
| sistpoty | mdz: there is a page which lists many... mom, still looking ;) | 10:19 |
| mdz | sistpoty: who has sponsored your uploads so far? | 10:19 |
| dholbach | mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNEWGames | 10:19 |
| ogra | sabdfl, hes with the team since 2/3 of the hoary timeframe... | 10:19 |
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| bddebian | mdz: I've done a few for sistpoty | 10:19 |
| mdz | ogra: style and quality, not length of time ;-) | 10:19 |
| sistpoty | mdz: different people... dholbach did some, some slomo, some from \sh, some from ajmitch | 10:19 |
| ogra | sabdfl, he did quite complicated packages already, didnt fear to touch haskell which nobody wanted... | 10:19 |
| ivoks | sistpoty isn't motu yet?! | 10:19 |
| \sh | ivoks: no | 10:20 |
| mdz | dholbach,slomo,\sh,ajmitch: specific feedback about sistpoty's work? | 10:20 |
| ogra | he's a great teamworker i'd say | 10:20 |
| dholbach | i sponsored a couple of his packages, and i was quite pleased with 1) the packaging, 2) the fix itself, 3) the way he worked on it | 10:20 |
| sabdfl | sistpoty: also, tell me about REVU 2? | 10:20 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: actually revu1 was written fast and not very cleanly, making it hard to add new features | 10:20 |
| \sh | mdz: as I said in the last meeting, he's a team player, he's doing great work on really serious troubling packages like the ghc stuff, he's in the team with siretart and they're reinventing a better REVU tool | 10:21 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: that's why siretart and /me decided to start it all over... but siretart has big plans for revu2 which he'd like to discuss at UBZ | 10:21 |
| dholbach | he didn't just stick to the easy stuff, but he was eager to find things out and did this "in public", so other could participate and learn from it | 10:21 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: s.th. like launchpad integration if possible ;) | 10:21 |
| ogra | most noticeable feature of revu2 will be testbuilding of packages if i understood right | 10:22 |
| \sh | ogra: yes | 10:22 |
| \sh | ogra: to have even a full QA structure for new packages from MOTU helpers | 10:22 |
| sistpoty | btw.: just found the page with games: http://www.clanlib.org/games.html (seems like many are not packaged yet) | 10:22 |
| sabdfl | sistpoty: could you spec that for us for UBZ? are you coming to UBZ? | 10:23 |
| \sh | sabdfl: siretart's coming | 10:23 |
| sabdfl | cool | 10:23 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: unfortunately i don't have time to come :(... as said, siretart has the big plans... and imo he'll be doing the specs as well ;) | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | geez, those games look great | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | ok | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | work with him on the wiki... be just like being there without the beer! | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | (or, on the one night, the tights) | 10:24 |
| sistpoty | sabdfl: sure, will do ;) | 10:24 |
| sabdfl | sistpoty: which timezone are you? | 10:25 |
| sistpoty | utc+2 | 10:25 |
| ogra | germany | 10:25 |
| \sh | motu-de ,-) | 10:25 |
| sabdfl | ok... be nice for you to review the relevant specs in the morning before everyone else gets there and add your comments | 10:25 |
| sabdfl | +1 from me for sistpoty on the basis of a sustained contribution and good comments from dholbach and others on code and teamwork | 10:25 |
| ogra | +10 from me if i could | 10:26 |
| mdz | +1 for sistpoty as MOTU | 10:26 |
| ogra | for excellent work and teamwork | 10:26 |
| bddebian | +10 for me if I could :-) | 10:26 |
| ogra | (and for a lot of patience with becoming a MOTU btw) | 10:27 |
| mdz | sistpoty: welcome! | 10:27 |
| ogra | YAY | 10:27 |
| dholbach | excellent!!! :) | 10:27 |
| ivoks | sistpoty: :> | 10:27 |
| pitti | welcome sistpoty | 10:27 |
| === ogra hugs sistpoty | ||
| sistpoty | yeehaa... thanks :) | 10:27 |
| \sh | CONGRATS sistpoty :) | 10:27 |
| ogra | finaly | 10:27 |
| mdz | are there any other candidates present? | 10:27 |
| ogra | +l | 10:27 |
| bddebian | Yeah! Welcome sistpoty | 10:27 |
| dholbach | we need the motu-de meeting soon :) | 10:27 |
| dholbach | motu-de party rather ;) | 10:27 |
| sistpoty | hehe | 10:27 |
| Loiosh | Beer =) | 10:28 |
| \sh | oh daniel invited us to come to berlin and have a party there ;) | 10:28 |
| bddebian | Bier? | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | i've just fixed something in LP | 10:28 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: well done :) | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | memberships are supposed to be 2 years initially, then 1 year upon renewal | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | all the existing ones are indefinite | 10:28 |
| ajmitch | sabdfl: and maintainer status sits that as well? | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | well need to fix that, but there's no fast interface to do it for 25 people | 10:28 |
| sabdfl | ajmitch: membership. yes | 10:29 |
| ajmitch | I noticed I'm the only one with an expiry date in the core-dev team :) | 10:29 |
| jbailey | ajmitch: The rest of us are immortal. | 10:29 |
| bddebian | ajmitch: They are trying to tell you something ;-P | 10:29 |
| ajmitch | due to when I was added | 10:29 |
| ajmitch | bddebian: I'm not past it yet :) | 10:29 |
| sabdfl | ajmitch: that's probably because you joined after i fixed that | 10:29 |
| bddebian | ajmitch: Don't feel bad apparently I'm still not even a member ;-P | 10:30 |
| mdz | sabdfl: if this can be fixed in the UI, send me the info and I'll take care ofit | 10:30 |
| ajmitch | bddebian: so ask someone (when it's the right time) | 10:30 |
| sabdfl | mdz: it's done for future guys, just need to set expiration dates for the existing folks | 10:31 |
| mdz | sabdfl: right, that's what I meant | 10:31 |
| bddebian | ajmitch: Who is the someone? | 10:31 |
| HiddenWolf | Guys, what is needed for membership, generally? | 10:31 |
| ogra | HiddenWolf, a valuable contribution ... | 10:31 |
| ajmitch | bddebian: a CC member | 10:32 |
| === ajmitch has to go | ||
| HiddenWolf | ogra, it's the valuable that I'd like to see defined. :) | 10:32 |
| ogra | HiddenWolf, and a CC meeting that notices it :) | 10:32 |
| bddebian | Later ajmitch | 10:32 |
| sabdfl | mdz: sure it can, just click on "edit" next to their name on the +members page | 10:32 |
| === sabdfl shivers at bad ui | ||
| ogra | HiddenWolf, CC considers how valuable it is... | 10:32 |
| sabdfl | ok, was sistpoty our only victim for the evening? | 10:32 |
| mdz | ok, last call for developer candidates | 10:32 |
| \sh | bmonty is not with us today | 10:33 |
| bddebian | Aye, we need a special time for him I think :-( | 10:33 |
| ogra | HiddenWolf, but some docs a bit of artwork bugfixing or helping packaging is generally ok already ... | 10:33 |
| mdz | bddebian: if he can't make the normal meeting time, it's his responsibility to contact us. we can't know his schedule | 10:33 |
| sabdfl | alright. mjg59 around? | 10:33 |
| mjg59 | Yup | 10:34 |
| bddebian | mdz: Well the "path" isn't exactly clear. Such as I don't know who to bug about not being a "member" on Launchpad. | 10:34 |
| \sh | sabdfl: btw...is there any possibilty to see the actual voting stats? | 10:34 |
| mdz | bddebian: regarding the tech board meeting time, contact the tech board :-) | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | \sh: if you're the dba, probably | 10:34 |
| mdz | bddebian: for team matters, contact a team administrator | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | otherwise, nope | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | it's a secret ballot | 10:34 |
| sabdfl | i don't know that code but i assume the results are visible to everybody after the poll is done | 10:35 |
| \sh | sabdfl: so the result is coming in less then 2 weeks | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | yes | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | 10 days, currently | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | barring a major issue with LP | 10:35 |
| \sh | yes | 10:35 |
| sabdfl | i must apologise for the pages, they are hideous, and i believe there are crashes too, though i managed to vote | 10:35 |
| === mdz cringes at the text formatting | ||
| === bddebian was able to vote | ||
| sabdfl | guys, does anyone have questions for mjg59 | 10:36 |
| === ogra waits for the canvassing | ||
| === sabdfl waits for the curve balls | ||
| === bddebian waits for a beer | ||
| mjg59 | Oh, come on. /Someone/ must have something to ask me :) | 10:37 |
| === Loiosh joins bd. | ||
| mdz | mjg59: what do you see as the most important responsibility of the technical board? | 10:37 |
| sabdfl | /invite godot | 10:37 |
| ogra | lol | 10:37 |
| pitti | mjg59: do you closely follow MOTU development to be able to judge new candidates? | 10:38 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: can you think of areas of the technical infrastructure of ubuntu that need serious cleaning up? | 10:38 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Ensuring that we don't accidently do something *really stupid* | 10:38 |
| sabdfl | i.e. "staring down the sabdfl" | 10:38 |
| zenrox | mjg59 follow up question how your you inforce the most important responsibility? | 10:39 |
| zenrox | your=would | 10:39 |
| ogra | mjg59, how do you plan to relate your work for dccalliance to the work on ubuntu ? | 10:39 |
| mjg59 | pitti: I don't have enough time to follow every MOTU in detail. However, it's easy enough to check how candidates are doing | 10:40 |
| mdz | mjg59: for example? (something stupid, and how the board would prevent it) | 10:40 |
| pitti | mjg59: I for my part find it nontrivial | 10:40 |
| mjg59 | (I'm giving short answers here because of the number of sudden questions - please ask if you'd like any elucidation) | 10:40 |
| zenrox | elucidation?? | 10:41 |
| mjg59 | ogra: You're joking, right? | 10:41 |
| ogra | sure | 10:41 |
| mjg59 | Haha | 10:41 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: can you think of ways we COULD work constructively with the DCCA? | 10:42 |
| mjg59 | mdz: We don't have the same sort of personal responsibility for packages as Debian has. It's possible for someone to alter a set of packages in a way that they believe solves a real problem - if someone else disagrees, there's not necessarily a good claim of authority in one case over the other | 10:42 |
| mjg59 | In general, one of these opinions will be more technically correct than the other, and that's the sort of decision the tech board ought to be making | 10:42 |
| sabdfl | what would you see as the most effective way to improve the usefulness of ubuntu to people who run servers, not desktops? | 10:42 |
| mdz | sabdfl: -EWOULDBLOCK, you already have a question in the queue ;-) | 10:43 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: the idea of arbitrating between two good ideas is very interesting, and i think a good example. | 10:43 |
| bddebian | heh | 10:43 |
| sabdfl | mdz: ESORRYBACKINGOFFNOW | 10:44 |
| mjg59 | sabdfl: Lacking technical infrastructure - if I said "The ability to release a distribution right now", would I be punched? :) | 10:44 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: that's really up to them to organise :-) | 10:44 |
| mjg59 | But other than that, not really - bugzilla makes it a bit too easy to lose track of what still needs doing, but I'm hoping Malone should make that easier | 10:45 |
| mjg59 | How could we work constructively with the DCCA? I think trying to work with them (and, by proxy, Debian) on LSB compliance would be a good plan as far as possible | 10:46 |
| mdz | mjg59: what qualities do you feel are most important when considering potential Ubuntu developers? | 10:47 |
| mjg59 | Improving Ubuntu for server users - GUI tools for managing large numbers of machines | 10:48 |
| ogra | ++ | 10:48 |
| \sh | "How to package empty packages"? | 10:48 |
| ogra | \sh, the Mez syndrome ? | 10:48 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Ability to understand how their contributions impact upon the entire distribution | 10:48 |
| bddebian | Uh oh :-) | 10:49 |
| mjg59 | That's important both from the point of view of functioning as a team, but also in terms of producing a distribution that's well integrated | 10:49 |
| mdz | mjg59: what methods would you use to measure that understanding on the part of a particular individual? | 10:50 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Look for packages that interoperate with other packages in the distribution | 10:50 |
| mjg59 | Ideally where that's been done by working with people looking after those other packages | 10:51 |
| mjg59 | That's not always possible, but I think it ought to be encouraged | 10:51 |
| mdz | further questions for mjg59? | 10:53 |
| bddebian | Are they open to anyone or just TB? | 10:53 |
| mdz | remember, folks, it's the community at large who will be voting here, not just the tech board | 10:53 |
| mjg59 | Questions from anyone | 10:53 |
| ogra | bddebian, anyone | 10:53 |
| jbailey | mjg59: What's in it for you? =) | 10:53 |
| jbailey | More fully: It seems like alot of work and responsibility. | 10:54 |
| jbailey | You already do alot. Why do you want to do more? | 10:54 |
| bddebian | mjg59: I'm curious if you have any thoughts about a closer relationship between MOTU's and main or do you even see an issue there? | 10:54 |
| mjg59 | jbailey: Somebody needs to do it. | 10:55 |
| mjg59 | And I think for someone to do it well, they need to be heavily involved in the project | 10:55 |
| mjg59 | If I didn't do it, some other poor bastard would end up with the job :) | 10:55 |
| jbailey | =) | 10:56 |
| bddebian | Heh | 10:56 |
| pitti | mjg59: in the beginning of the TB meetings, we had a lot of technical discussions, nowadays the main action is about approving new maintainers; do you feel that you have enough experience with the MOTU community for the latter? | 10:56 |
| Loiosh | Just because I'm missing this... what is the DCCA? | 10:56 |
| \sh | mjg59: was it not more the case, that the call came from sabdfl, and there is nothing in the ubuntu which can overrule sabdfls call? ,-) | 10:56 |
| \sh | +world even ;) | 10:56 |
| mjg59 | More importantly, I think it's important that the tech board have input from the community, not just from Canonical staff | 10:57 |
| jbailey | mjg59++ | 10:57 |
| ogra | \sh, the suggestion came from sabdfl but the TB expressed the need fr an additional member before | 10:57 |
| ogra | *suggestion for mjg59 | 10:57 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: +1 on that | 10:58 |
| \sh | ogra: how many smilies should i draw? :) | 10:58 |
| ogra | ;) | 10:58 |
| mjg59 | pitti: I don't think approving MOTUs should be seen as the most important role of the TB. It's one role amongst many. I'll happily admit that there are people with a better understanding of the state of play of MOTU, and I'm also happy to admit that I'd rely on them for guidance. But any TB member has to be able to deal with the other responsibilities as well. | 10:58 |
| mjg59 | Finding someone who could satisfy all criteria perfectly is fairly unrealistic :) | 10:59 |
| pitti | mjg59: right, that was my impression, too. thanks | 10:59 |
| bddebian | How many/what members are close to the MOTUs? | 10:59 |
| pitti | mjg59: I did not mean that as an offence, by no way | 10:59 |
| mjg59 | \sh: He hasn't got my signature on a contract yet, so I get to ignore him as much as I want to :) | 11:00 |
| pitti | mjg59: I'd love to see your weight in technical decisions | 11:00 |
| ajmitch | bddebian: TB members? | 11:00 |
| \sh | mjg59: hehe :) | 11:00 |
| mjg59 | pitti: Oh, yes - I hadn't interpreted it as one | 11:00 |
| mjg59 | Loiosh: www.dccalliance.org | 11:01 |
| mjg59 | (not to be confused with www.dccalliance.biz) | 11:01 |
| pitti | mjg59: I'm not sure why there are so few technical discussions on TB nowadays - maybe they have moved to the specification BoFs :-) | 11:01 |
| bddebian | ajmitch: How many of the Technical Board itself I should say | 11:01 |
| mjg59 | bddebian: I think it's fairly inevitable that main and MOTU will remain separate, simply because of the different standards demanded from the two groups | 11:02 |
| pitti | mjg59++ | 11:02 |
| bddebian | mjg59: I got that. My question is more around taking resources from main and vice versa. Elmo for example gets inundated with sync requests from us | 11:02 |
| \sh | mjg59: two serious questions: 1. When the LaptopTesting started, and we had the problems with the sk98lin driver, you explained (and even fabbione) that we're not including the driver of syskonnect. Why did you change your opinion, patched it and included it in the final "product"? | 11:02 |
| mjg59 | Personally, I think it would be great to see more community members with main upload privileges. But for that to be possible, we need to be sure that they're able to package software we can commit to supporting for a long time | 11:02 |
| === crimsun [i=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| pitti | mjg59: not only that, we should also be reasonably sure that they are available for a longer time | 11:03 |
| pitti | Hi crimsun | 11:03 |
| bddebian | Heya crimsun | 11:03 |
| \sh | 2. Do you, personally, see a success story of the dcca, regarding the unsuccessfull tries of SuSE and others to establish such a thing like an alliance? (UnitedLinux it was I think) | 11:03 |
| crimsun | (hi, don't want to interrupt :-) | 11:04 |
| mjg59 | \sh: The original decision was made because a supportable driver was appearing in the near future. In the end it turned out that the decent driver wasn't adequate for us. | 11:04 |
| ajmitch | mjg59: for dapper, what is your opinion of what we should focus on (technically) for it to be 'enterprise-ready'? | 11:04 |
| \sh | mjg59: but what was important for you? The need of the User or "the decent driver wasn't adequate for us"? | 11:04 |
| mjg59 | The sk98lin driver is basically impossible to support for any length of time. It's effectively the Windows driver with a think Linux layer around it. Supporting it would have been a nightmare. In the end, we took the decision to ship it only for the small set of devices that wouldn't otherwise be supported. | 11:05 |
| mjg59 | \sh: Shipping a driver that we can't support is not necessarily preferable than shipping no driver, as far as the user is concerned | 11:05 |
| mjg59 | Users want us to be able to keep to our commitments | 11:05 |
| mjg59 | The sky2 driver simply didn't work for most people | 11:06 |
| mjg59 | So in the end that wasn't an option | 11:06 |
| mjg59 | ajmitch: Stability, stability, stability | 11:06 |
| pitti | ajmitch: which process changes would you prefer to achieve that? | 11:06 |
| pitti | erm | 11:06 |
| pitti | s/ajmitch/mjg59/ | 11:06 |
| ajmitch | mjg59: with that stability in mind, what do you think about when UVF & feature freeze should be? earlier? | 11:07 |
| mjg59 | For the long-term supported releases, certainly | 11:07 |
| mjg59 | pitti: Reducing code churn earlier in the process | 11:08 |
| mjg59 | It'd also be good to see more management utilities | 11:08 |
| mvo | mjg59: what kind of utils do you have in mind here? | 11:09 |
| mjg59 | The infrastructure needed for Ubuntu to be enterprise ready certainly exists - that's easy enough to see from it being used in the enterprise... | 11:09 |
| mjg59 | mvo: Better tools for managing user profiles and lockdown | 11:09 |
| mjg59 | But it ought to be easy for me to push a package out to 500 machines | 11:10 |
| === mvo nods | ||
| ogra | mjg59++ | 11:10 |
| mjg59 | If I'm managing a set of servers, I want to be able to check that they're all up to date with security patches in under 30 seconds | 11:10 |
| mjg59 | Linux tends to be lacking in that sort of area - making life easy for the admin of large networks | 11:11 |
| mjg59 | So the admin ends up writing a bunch of scripts to do it, and we get code duplication all over the planet | 11:11 |
| Kamion | mjg59: I'm guessing that running the LaptopMission project has given you a fair amount of experience with working with maintainers and packages throughout a pretty good cross-section of Ubuntu. Is there anything you'd change as a result of that experience? | 11:11 |
| Kamion | (either technical matters of laptop support, or process) | 11:12 |
| mjg59 | Sometimes small changes to large packages are needed in order to support something | 11:12 |
| mjg59 | Writing that change is easy enough, but it's not practical to integrate it and upload it, especially when that may disrupt what the maintainer is working on | 11:13 |
| mjg59 | So you submit a patch to bugzilla or whatever, and it's queued for inclusion | 11:13 |
| mjg59 | But from then on, there's no good way to see what's happening | 11:13 |
| mjg59 | And, inevitably, some of those patches get overlooked, and then you have to resort to chasing people up about it | 11:14 |
| Mithrandir | from the maintainer's side, it's also way too easy to drop/not include patches unintentionally. | 11:14 |
| mjg59 | And that sucks | 11:14 |
| Kamion | right, I can agree with that on both sides | 11:14 |
| mjg59 | Some way of managing those patches would be excellent | 11:14 |
| mjg59 | So, if I could change one thing, it would be to have that. And a pony. | 11:15 |
| ogra | *g | 11:15 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: are you coming to UBZ? | 11:15 |
| bddebian | There is a patch tracker on alioth iirc, maybe something like that for LP? | 11:15 |
| Mithrandir | what's this sudden obsession with geeks wanting a pony? | 11:15 |
| mjg59 | sabdfl: Afraid not | 11:15 |
| === bddebian doesn't want a pony | ||
| Mortas | Mithrandir: girls love them | 11:15 |
| ogra | Mithrandir, dont you want one ? | 11:15 |
| mjg59 | Mithrandir: I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT | 11:15 |
| === ogra wants 10 | ||
| Mithrandir | ogra: I don't have a balcony to put one on, so no. Once I want one, I get one. | 11:15 |
| sabdfl | girls love puppies too, and puppies take up less space | 11:16 |
| Mortas | he raises a good point there | 11:16 |
| bddebian | And are MUCH less expensive, believe me! :-) | 11:16 |
| Mithrandir | bddebian: the patch tracker on *forge sucks, but the idea is good, I agree | 11:16 |
| === ogra already has dogs and cats and a lot other animals... | ||
| \sh | hmm...ponys? I like horse meat...I have to try someday a pony | 11:16 |
| bddebian | hehe | 11:16 |
| \sh | ogra: an \sh ;) | 11:16 |
| === ogra wants bees ! | ||
| sabdfl | ok guys | 11:17 |
| Mithrandir | ogra: I'd also need to buy a house rather than a flat, but Karianne wants one, so we'll probably get one at some point. | 11:17 |
| mdz | sounds like we've exhausted the on-topic discussion | 11:17 |
| === Mithrandir stops sidetracking the meeting | ||
| ajmitch | amazing how OT the questions get when ponies come up | 11:17 |
| mdz | that's the end of the agenda | 11:17 |
| mdz | any other business? | 11:17 |
| === bddebian blames mjg59 | ||
| \sh | I think mjg59 is a good choice for the TB | 11:17 |
| bddebian | Me too | 11:18 |
| === pitti agrees | ||
| ogra | absolutely | 11:18 |
| sabdfl | \sh: go vote :-) | 11:18 |
| \sh | sabdfl: i did already on saturday morning :) | 11:18 |
| HiddenWolf | mjg59, with what slogan will you go forth and campaign? :) | 11:18 |
| pitti | let's test LP with a vote DDoS | 11:18 |
| === Mithrandir couldn't vote, since LP crashed, but he agrees that mjg59 should be on the TB. | ||
| dholbach | sabdfl: where was that page again? | 11:18 |
| ajmitch | mjg59: will you be posting a summary of your position on things to the devel list? :) | 11:18 |
| bddebian | pitti: :) | 11:18 |
| ajmitch | mjg59: since many people wouldn't turn up to the TB meeting to hear your wisdom | 11:18 |
| dholbach | ajmitch: it will be called interview :) | 11:19 |
| \sh | sabdfl: or is my vote lost somehow? | 11:19 |
| sabdfl | https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nomination-mjg59-2005/ | 11:19 |
| dholbach | merci beaucoup | 11:19 |
| === ogra already votd on the eifel release party weekend with \sh | ||
| pitti | Application error. Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication. | 11:19 |
| pitti | yay | 11:19 |
| pitti | but I *am* logged in *whine* | 11:19 |
| mdz | ajmitch: I'd planned to post the log as a followup on -devel | 11:19 |
| ajmitch | mdz: good idea | 11:20 |
| \sh | pitti: standard support question: Did you enable "Cookies"? *eg* | 11:20 |
| Mithrandir | sabdfl: "system error" if you click "show all options" and "I vote for mjg59". | 11:20 |
| Mithrandir | (without being logged in, at least.) | 11:20 |
| === pitti logs out and back in | ||
| Mithrandir | when logged in as well. | 11:20 |
| dholbach | worked fine for me | 11:20 |
| ajmitch | sabdfl: when do you think we'll need to get another TB member? | 11:21 |
| sabdfl | ajmitch: soon | 11:21 |
| mvo | worked for me too | 11:21 |
| pitti | now it works | 11:21 |
| sabdfl | ok, we're done | 11:21 |
| ajmitch | great | 11:21 |
| pitti | thanks mjg59 | 11:21 |
| dholbach | thanks | 11:21 |
| mdz | adjourned, thanks everyone | 11:22 |
| pitti | bye | 11:22 |
| === \sh goes to bed then...after rushing between two places (office -> home -> office) I'm tired :) | ||
| \sh | cu tomorrow | 11:22 |
| === pitti [n=pitti@box79162.elkhouse.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] | ||
| sabdfl | night all | 11:23 |
| ogra | night sabdfl | 11:23 |
| mvo | night sabdfl | 11:23 |
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| sabdfl | thanks mjg59 | 11:23 |
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| jbailey | ajmitch: Another TB member? You gonna run? = | 11:24 |
| jbailey | ) | 11:24 |
| bddebian | Heh | 11:24 |
| === bddebian votes for ajmitch ;-) | ||
| ajmitch | jbailey: somehow I don't think I'm quite qualified :) | 11:24 |
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| ajmitch | jbailey: besides, I'm too well known as a MOTU supporter ;) | 11:25 |
| bddebian | That's a BAD thing? ;-P | 11:25 |
| ajmitch | bddebian: yes | 11:26 |
| ajmitch | I'm tainted now | 11:26 |
| bddebian | Heh | 11:27 |
| === bddebian makes a note not to support MOTUs :-) | ||
| Loiosh | LoL | 11:27 |
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| === olemke [n=olemke@p54897EE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] | ||
| === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B085D.versanet.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] | ||
| === Loiosh gets an error | ||
| ajmitch | Loiosh: doing? | 11:39 |
| Loiosh | Voting? =) | 11:39 |
| ajmitch | are you a MOTU or main uploader? | 11:39 |
| Loiosh | OHH | 11:39 |
| Loiosh | No! =) | 11:39 |
| ajmitch | :) | 11:39 |
| mdke | even so, it shouldn't be an error | 11:39 |
| mdke | it should be "no permission" | 11:39 |
| === mdke has seen that one too | ||
| Loiosh | No, it throws an error | 11:40 |
| Loiosh | Oops | 11:40 |
| Loiosh | Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad. | 11:40 |
| mdke | yeah i believe you | 11:40 |
| mdke | i had it too | 11:40 |
| === Loiosh licks launchpad. | ||
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| === ivanelmafufopunt [n=ivan@customer-201-133-157-189.prod-infinitum.com.mx] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| sistpoty | ajmitch: what do I have to do if I want to get a package i maintain in ubuntu to debian? file an itp and find a sponsor who uploads this package? | 11:51 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: yes | 11:51 |
| sistpoty | ajmitch: ok, i did file an itp... could you sponsor me an upload ;) | 11:51 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: join the queue ;) | 11:52 |
| sistpoty | *g* | 11:52 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: drop me an email with something about sponsoring in the topic | 11:52 |
| ajmitch | s/topic/subject line/ | 11:52 |
| sistpoty | ok, will do... thx :) | 11:52 |
| ajmitch | too much irc rots the brain.. | 11:52 |
| sistpoty | what do i need... just a source package or a binary as well? | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | source package | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | I won't touch the binary :) | 11:53 |
| sistpoty | hehe... just thougth there was s.th. that you need one binary for debian uploads ;) | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | yes | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | and that binary is one I'll build | 11:54 |
| sistpoty | k, thx ;) | 11:54 |
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