[12:03] <Kyral> and would anyone object to me packing up the remaining DevHelp Books?
[12:03] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I agree it just seems like a lot of the info on the wiki is more internal than for somebody on the outside wanting to help
[12:03] <ajmitch> Kyral: no objection from me
[12:04] <Kyral> http://htmlhelp.berlios.de/books/devhelp.php <-- Like the ones on this list that aren't there ;P
[12:04] <ajmitch> LaserJock: probably, but that's a wiki thing rather than an organisational problem where we need to introduce yet another level of developer
[12:04] <Kyral> 'cause I just found the program and I was like "Holy.....****"
[12:04] <LaserJock> ok, well maybe scrap the MOTU Apprentice thing but reorganize some of the wiki and put some more direction into it
[12:04] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, we'll probably do that
[12:05] <ajmitch> it's just that too many of us having been busy fixing breezy rather than doing wiki work
[12:05] <LaserJock> I am certainly not stuck on the Apprentice thing, it just seemed like an easy way of organizing activity, but maybe it is not that easy
[12:05] <Kyral> Maybe make a MOTU In Training Team (or someting like that)
[12:06] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but that is my point, you guys are working on important stuff, but those of use who can't do that would still like to help we just don't know what to do
[12:07] <LaserJock> I would love to work on the wiki because I had a lot of struggles and I think that most of the MOTU don't really need advice on how to build a package ;-)
[12:07] <Kyral> this shouldn't be too hard
[12:07] <Kyral> just very VERY repetitive...
[12:08] <ajmitch> LaserJock: feel free to add stuff to the wiki then :)
[12:09] <Mortas> just add it, you'll get comments when needed
[12:09] <ajmitch> we'll try to resist mercilessly flaming if you get something wrong ;)
[12:10] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but see I don't know where I fit in, I will probably never be a MOTU and I don't want to mess with things. If there was something on the wiki that said "we need help organizing the wiki", I would have been all over it
[12:10] <LaserJock> and I feel like there must be other people like me
[12:10] <LaserJock> but maybe not
[12:11] <koke> hi again!
[12:11] <ajmitch> wb koke
[12:11] <Mortas> hmm 'we need help organizing the wiki'
[12:11] <Mortas> wait a sec laser
[12:12] <LaserJock> ok, so maybe I will change my my MOTUApprenticeProposal to a MOTUForNewbiesProposal
[12:13] <Mortas> LaserJock: see MOTUTodo
[12:13] <Mortas> and go ahead :)
[12:13] <Mortas> once it finishes updating one sec :)
[12:13] <LaserJock> ;-)
[12:14] <LaserJock> ok, but see I didn't want to mess anything up. Now I can do it ;-)
[12:14] <Mortas> feel free, and just blame me
[12:14] <Mortas> documentation and information is always good
[12:17] <LaserJock> ok, thanks for the feedback, I am going to make an alternative proposal for the MOTU meeting and see what happens
[12:17] <Mortas> just put it online and wait for the feedback
[12:23] <LaserJock> MOTU: is it ok if I reject Bug #3252 ?
[12:23] <Mortas> judging by the response of the filer it is fixed
[12:24] <LaserJock> well, I don't think it was ever a problem
[12:24] <Mortas> and it's also not really adviced to do a upgrade from warty to breezy without the knowledge that something might break
[12:24] <Mortas> I don't see it as a bug
[12:24] <Mortas> but I'm not a MOTU :)
[12:24] <ajmitch> LaserJock: no, it's something we should have caught before release
[12:24] <crimsun> it's a corner case, unfortunately
[12:25] <crimsun> wxgtk2.5.3 should have never been in hoary
[12:25] <LaserJock> so, is it a bug that need's to be taken care of
[12:25] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
[12:25] <crimsun> well, one of Debian ways of fixing it was ripping wxwidgets2.5.3 from the archive
[12:25] <ajmitch> heh
[12:25] <Mortas> that isn't really a fix
[12:25] <crimsun> but yeah, leave the bug there. We'll have to tweak debian/control
[12:25] <ajmitch> we should just add conflicts/replaces
[12:25] <Mortas> that's destruction :)
[12:26] <Mortas> could one of you place a comment then?
[12:26] <LaserJock> ok, I will try to do that
[12:26] <crimsun> Mortas: licensing issue
[12:27] <LaserJock> I am the second person on there so I will follow up and attach a debdiff, unless you guys don't want me too
[12:27] <crimsun> a debdiff would be fine
[12:27] <Mortas> go ahead
[12:29] <Kyral> hmm
[12:29] <Kyral> it looks like I can remake the DevHelp-Books package easy
[12:35] <Kyral> Okay....leave it to me :D
[12:36] <Mortas> go Kyral go Kyral you can do it
[12:36] <Mortas> ;)
[12:37] <Kyral> It should be easy. Just VERY repetitive...
[12:37] <ajmitch> hello jaldhar
[12:37] <Kyral> just to check, a tgz is exactly the same thing as a tar.gz
[12:37] <ajmitch> yes
[12:38] <Kyral> okay
[12:38] <Kyral> I may have to update all the books...
[12:40] <Kyral> package hasn't been touched in almost a year
[12:41] <sivang> Kyral: last one to touch it was probably Mithrandir or doko or smurfix IIRC :)
[12:42] <ajmitch> Kyral: why do they all need updated?
[12:42] <Kyral>  -- Gustavo Noronha Silva <kov@debian.org>  Mon,  1 Nov 2004 21:02:35 -0300
[12:42] <Kyral>  <---Last Entry in the changelog
[12:43] <Kyral> Dunno...the source they were using is all outdated books. I found more recent ones on another site...
[12:43] <sivang> Kyral: what are you trying to do with it?
[12:43] <sivang> (btw)
[12:43] <Kyral> add a lot of books :P
[12:44] <Kyral> http://htmlhelp.berlios.de/books/devhelp.php <---This is the most recent "repo" of books I could find
[12:44] <ajmitch> Kyral: as a note, devhelp-books has been removed from debian unstable
[12:44] <Kyral> ah
[12:45] <Kyral> Its a really cool package.....I like :D
[12:45] <ajmitch> right, DFSG violation..
[12:45] <Kyral> I'm like "Waitaminute....I can have ALL this documentation in one place? That doesn't require web access? NIIIIIIICE!"
[12:45] <Kyral> DFSG?
[12:46] <ajmitch> GFDL, we have to find out what the policy will be with those docs
[12:46] <ajmitch> debian free software guidelines
[12:46] <Kyral> GFDL?
[12:47] <ajmitch> gnu free documentation license..
[12:47] <Kyral> They appear to be all GPL or the FOSS License
[12:49] <Kyral> and bingo.....found something that I was looking for :D
[12:50] <Kyral> the CHM Formatted books are newer than the Devhelp ones
[12:50] <Kyral> and there is a script that converts CHM Books into DevHelp Books :D
[12:52] <crimsun> you have to be careful with the license
[12:52] <Kyral> http://htmlhelp.berlios.de/
[12:52] <Kyral> Its under LGPL
[12:56] <Kyral> Is LGPL alright for Ubuntu?
[12:56] <ajmitch> of course
[12:57] <ajmitch> it's just a question of whether the GFDL is
[12:57] <ajmitch> which the devhelp-books package is under
[12:57] <Kyral> So....many.....licenses...
[12:58] <Kyral> wouldn't GFDL == GPL....some gimme a copy of it
[12:59] <ajmitch> no, GFDL != GPL
[01:00] <Kyral> I'm just skimming the license and it seems like its just the GPL, but applied to Documentation....
[01:00] <Kyral> then again, IANAL
[01:02] <zenrox> lol
[01:02] <Kyral> It means I Am Not A Lawyer...
[01:09] <Kyral> http://www.gnu.org/gear/gnu20th-tshirt.html
[01:20] <sladen> Kyral: unfortunately.  It's not...
[01:42] <koke> iirc, the matter was the GFDL has support for invariant sections, so it was considered non-free according to the dfsg
[01:44] <koke> time to sleep, bye
[01:52] <zyga> marcin_ant: hell
[01:52] <zyga> hello ;)
[02:04] <crimsun> tasty lunch?
[02:04] <ajmitch> yep
[02:05] <ajmitch> bacon & egg sandwich :)
[02:05] <crimsun> yarrr
[02:21] <ajmitch> hm, no herve
[02:41] <Kyral> Seriously, I can understand the need for caring about Licensing, but the GFDL comes from the same place as the LGPL and the GPL, so in my mind there is no problem. </rant caused by excess energy and frustration at homework>
[02:42] <ajmitch> Kyral: that's nice, but it doesn't mean it necessarily fits the DFSG
[02:43] <ajmitch> http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.html as a summary
[02:43] <Kyral> .....since when are we Debian ;P
[02:44] <Kyral> Sorry, I have this ongoing fued with a friend who is Debian and everytime I mention trying to become a developer he tells me "Stay Out Of My Distro"
[02:44] <ajmitch> that's what we have to clarify.. the extent to which we follow things like the DFSG
[02:44] <ajmitch> a friend who is debian?
[02:45] <Kyral> He uses Debian and the fact that I use Ubuntu irks him (Ubuntu in general that is)
[02:45] <ajmitch> so he uses debian, he's not a debian developer..?
[02:45] <Kyral> Nope
[02:45] <Kyral> Its my puny excuse at a pun ;P
[02:45] <ajmitch> what does he have to whine about then?
[02:45] <Kyral> Dunno, but its very funny at times
[02:48] <zenrox> id like to see his look when you install a new ver in 6months
[02:48] <zenrox> and he has to wate for 6 years
[02:48] <Kyral> or when one of my fixes in universe syncs back to sid and he installs it ;P
[02:49] <Kyral> I dunno, the hostility started with him
[02:49] <zenrox> ya i know maby this will help move the unmovable debian ;)
[02:49] <zenrox> lol
[02:49] <Kyral> Frankly I'd mix Debian and Ubuntu at will
[02:49] <zenrox> me too
[02:50] <zenrox> dont get me wrong
[02:50] <Kyral> "Linux For Human Beings" also "Debian For Human Beings" ;P
[02:51] <Kyral> Which is how I sometimes describe it...
[02:51] <zenrox> just that maby the ubuntu devel will get put in to debian and help debian speed it devel process
[02:54] <Kyral> Frankly I'm one of those people who use the best tool for the job. If there are two tools (GNU and Proprietary) that both do the job as well as each other, I'll use the GNU one. If the Proprietary tool works better (and it runs on Linux) I'll use it. If I have to shatter license agreements along the way its all the same to me. I did it enough during my Windows era
[02:56] <Kyral> Indeed something that attracted me to Linux initially was that I could get a lot of stuff free LEGALLY
[02:57] <Kyral> Why did i just do that?
[02:57] <ajmitch> we don't know
[02:57] <Kyral> Neither do I....
[02:58] <Kyral> sorry about that :D
[03:02] <Kyral> I think I need a vacation....between school and clubs I hardly have anytime to relax
[03:04] <Kyral> I need HALO....
[03:05] <ajmitch> vacation for me=UBZ
[03:05] <Kyral> Yah, but I think I have an exam the week after
[03:05] <Kyral> Believe me if I didn't have class I would be there the entire week
[03:05] <Kyral> I wouldn't understand half the technical stuff, but it would be better than sitting in class :D
[03:06] <Kyral> Vacation for me == Thanksgiving Break and my Grandma's cooking :D
[03:06] <ajmitch> are you going to be at UBZ for a couple of days?
[03:07] <Kyral> Nah, just for Ubuntu Love
[03:07] <Kyral> Like I said, I have classes that week :P
[03:08] <Kyral> But I'll wind up giving a presentation on it for the COSI :D
[03:11] <Kyral> So I'll be taking loads of pictures :D
[03:18] <Kyral> ...actually it will be a mini-vacation....yaaaah
[03:19] <Kyral> I'll see you there mitch?
[03:19] <Kyral> yo bddebian
[03:20] <bddebian> Heya Kyral
[03:20] <ajmitch> yes
[03:20] <bddebian> Hi ajmitch
[03:20] <ajmitch> hello Master deFreese
[03:20] <Kyral> I think I'm talking too much again
[03:20] <bddebian> Bah, Master Bater ;-)
[03:21] <ajmitch> bddebian: remember the code of conduct :P
[03:21] <bddebian> What's that? :)
[03:21] <Kyral> But you are a Master Debater ;P
[03:23] <Kyral> bddebian, are you gonna be at UBZ?
[03:23] <bddebian> Kyral: Unfortunately no
[03:23] <Kyral> I'll email you pictures from Ubuntu Love Day ;P
[03:23] <Kyral> Wow....I'm hyper right now.....not good....
[03:24] <ajmitch> Kyral: what exams do you have?
[03:24] <bddebian> They wouldn't let me into Canuckistan with all my NRA and GWB stickers... ;-P
[03:24] <Kyral> The week during UBZ?
[03:24] <Kyral> I think Calculus 2
[03:24] <Kyral> my worst subject....
[03:24] <bddebian> Calculus.. Ugh
[03:25] <ajmitch> mmm
[03:26] <bddebian> When was that, last year youngin'? ;-)
[03:26] <Kyral> Why a hacker needs to know how to find the volume of the region bounded by x=2 and x=6  and the line y=tan(x)cos(x) rotated around the line y=1 is beyond me
[03:26] <ajmitch> no, 2001 :)
[03:26] <ajmitch> Kyral: so will you be of legal drinking age at UBZ? :)
[03:26] <Kyral> In Canada :P
[03:26] <Kyral> I'm 20 ;P
[03:26] <ajmitch> ah yes
[03:26] <Kyral> But I don't drink
[03:26] <ajmitch> canada has a sensible age like NZ does
[03:27] <ajmitch> I don't drink much :)
[03:27] <Kyral> Dude, if you saw what Caffine + Sugar does to me, you'd know why I don't drink
[03:28] <tseng> Kyral: high fives
[03:28] <ajmitch> haha
[03:28] <tseng> for non-drinkers
[03:29] <ajmitch> caffiene+sugar doesn't have the required effect on me
[03:30] <Kyral> Plus I can unlock that mode sometimes (spontaneous energy surge)
[03:30] <Kyral> I'll prolly be near that mode at Ubuntu Love. Being around loads of people also does it to me (kinda like feeding offa the vibe thing)
[03:30] <ajmitch> ah, the vibe..
[03:31] <Kyral> I'll be like "Whoa! Cool! Dude!"
[03:31] <Kyral> eh?
[03:31] <ajmitch> long flights
[03:31] <Kyral> lol
[03:31] <Kyral> Montreal is 2 hours from Clarkson
[03:32] <Kyral> drive that is
[03:32] <ajmitch> NZ is several hours from Montreal
[03:32] <Kyral> No kiddin' ;P
[03:32] <ajmitch> it'll be good to meet some of the guys again though
[03:32] <Kyral> I've never met any of you guys
[03:32] <Kyral> Thats why I'm so psyched
[03:34] <ajmitch> well UDU was the first time I met a lot of the developers in person
[03:34] <Kyral> Actually this is my first Linux Conference type thing period
[03:37] <ajmitch> fun, TB meeting tomorrow
[03:37] <Kyral> Can I come?
[03:37] <Kyral> Just to like watch?
[03:37] <ajmitch> sure
[03:37] <ajmitch> it's a public IRC channel
[03:38] <Kyral> when (GMT if you don't mind)
[03:38] <ajmitch> 2000
[03:38] <Kyral> so 1500 EST.....
[03:39] <tseng> pretend you met me and ajmitch at the same time
[03:39] <tseng> we are clones
[03:39] <Kyral> eh?
[03:40] <bddebian> Are they gonna bring in mjg59 tomorrow?
[03:40] <tseng> rage @ screen + gnome terminal
[03:40] <tseng> yeah it gets old installing urxvt on every box
[03:41] <Kyral> GNOME Term works fine for me
[03:41] <tseng> and copying my .Xdefaults
[03:41] <tseng> Kyral: corner case..
[03:41] <Kyral> but HALO calls :P
[03:41] <tseng> screen hates resizing
[03:41] <tseng> gnome terminal resizes every time you blink
[03:41] <Kyral> it does?
[03:41] <tseng> yes
[03:41] <Kyral> Doesn't for me
[03:42] <tseng> open a tab = bigger window
[03:42] <Kyral> Ah, I don't open tabs :P
[03:42] <tseng> why the other operations cause the same effect im not so sure
[03:42] <tseng> menus and stuff make screen go bonkers
[03:42] <Kyral> if I need another term I just fire up another instance ;P
[03:43] <Kyral> Then agian I also disabled the Menu Bar in GNOME Terminal
[03:43] <Kyral> anyway, HALO!
[03:43] <bddebian> Nah, Dungeon Seige II tonight ;-P
[03:44] <jsgotangco> whoa
[03:44] <jsgotangco> DS II
[03:44] <jsgotangco> awsome
[03:44] <ajmitch> hello
[03:44] <leetcharmer> hail, a donut_01
[03:44] <leetcharmer> hihi :D
[03:44] <bddebian> Not really, I'm getting my arse kicked :-(
[03:45] <ajmitch> bddebian: fix bugs instead
[03:45] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:45] <ajmitch> it's a less painful way to get kicked
[03:45] <ajmitch> yo jsgotangco
[03:45] <ajmitch> what's up?
[03:45] <leetcharmer> ^_^ so -- I wanna get plugged in, where-to-start?
[03:45] <leetcharmer> my skills are limited, but let me be used :D
[03:45] <jsgotangco> hey
[03:45] <leetcharmer> I totally support what you kids are doin' :D
[03:46] <bddebian> leetcharmer: They can't be any more limited than mine :-)
[03:46] <ajmitch> bddebian: oh don't be silly
[03:46] <ajmitch> leetcharmer: we do new packages, fixing existing ones, etc
[03:46] <ajmitch> a start to what we do is at wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[03:46] <leetcharmer> okies
[03:47] <ajmitch> eg we've got a few bugs filed that we want to fix in dapper
[03:47] <leetcharmer> ajmitch, what is the default programming language?
[03:47] <bddebian> A few? ;-)
[03:47] <leetcharmer> I know C++ (but forgetting) + Java (also forgetting)
[03:48] <ajmitch> leetcharmer: we don't do terribly much programming, though some people write applications
[03:48] <leetcharmer> how else would U fix the bugs?
[03:48] <ajmitch> although I'm biased towards python for writing stuff :)
[03:48] <leetcharmer> I know no python
[03:48] <leetcharmer> EZ?
[03:48] <ajmitch> leetcharmer: many of them are packaging bugs, or applying patches from upstream
[03:49] <ajmitch> where upstream = debian or the original author
[03:49] <leetcharmer> have ya'll figured a smooth transition way to upgrade Ubuntu releases rather than always reinstalling completely?
[03:49] <ajmitch> there's about 15000 packages or so in universe
[03:49] <ajmitch> leetcharmer: yes
[03:49] <ajmitch> dist-upgrade
[03:49] <leetcharmer> cool
[03:50] <ajmitch> the last time I reinstalled my system was back in 2001, which was switching to debian
[03:50] <leetcharmer> I hear that Ubuntu = forked from Debian
[03:50] <ajmitch> since then I've managed to just dist-upgrade my way to the latest system
[03:50] <leetcharmer> aka -- didn't comply w/ rules of being under Debian -or- rules to claim to be Debian-based
[03:51] <ajmitch> we are separate from debian
[03:51] <ajmitch> but we stay as close as possible
[03:51] <ajmitch> especially for universe
[03:51] <leetcharmer> what's the point?
[03:51] <ajmitch> and contribute fixes back
[03:51] <leetcharmer> just to still utilize .deb pkg managers?
[03:51] <ajmitch> so that we improve debian as we go
[03:51] <ajmitch> no, to utilise all those packages in debian
[03:51] <leetcharmer> if wishing to improve debian, why be separate?
[03:51] <ajmitch> which we regularly merge with
[03:52] <ajmitch> as I said, we contribute back to debian..
[03:52] <bddebian> leetcharmer: Differing goals
[03:53] <leetcharmer> whereas other distros (such as MEPIS) have similar goals?
[03:53] <leetcharmer> what are those 'goals'?
[03:54] <ajmitch> we have a 6-monthly release cycle, for example
[03:54] <ajmitch> compared to debian's 3-4 years
[03:54] <bddebian> Debian wants to be the Universal OS.  Very stable, etc.  Ubuntu is more desktop / end-user geared.  Too be overly simplistic.
[03:55] <leetcharmer> hmm ... has anyone considered using LFS to be the basis of their OS and build upon the same standards, yet -- not necessarily being apart of a 'mother' distro that way?
[03:55] <ajmitch> a number of us work in debian teams as well, so that fixes we make aren't duplicated
[03:55] <leetcharmer> LFS = Linux From Scratch
[03:55] <ajmitch> leetcharmer: if you want to, go ahead ;)
[03:56] <leetcharmer> ajmitch, is that something ubuntu would be interested in?
[03:56] <ajmitch> we find debian a perfectly acceptable project
[03:56] <ajmitch> leetcharmer: not in the slightest
[03:56] <leetcharmer> ajmitch, I see, then if that's the case, that's fine
[03:56] <ajmitch> there'd be so much that you'd duplicate that debian has built up over the years
[03:58] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I worked on organizing the MOTU wiki a bit but to be honest I really don't think I did much. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUForNewbiesProposal
[03:58] <leetcharmer> ajmitch, ah, so this way we avoid reinvinting the wheel
[03:58] <leetcharmer> http://autopackage.org/ - what are your thoughts about utilizing this?
[03:58] <ajmitch> LaserJock: thanks
[03:59] <ajmitch> leetcharmer: it's not going to happen, it's been discussed to death on the devel lists already
[04:00] <leetcharmer> ajmitch, what's been said?
[04:00] <ajmitch> that it's not going to happen..
[04:00] <leetcharmer> well ya -- but detail-wise
[04:00] <ajmitch> & that it has a number of flaws
[04:00] <leetcharmer> is the concept not good?
[04:00] <ajmitch> you may want to look in the archive yourself
[04:00] <leetcharmer> can U linkme?
[04:01] <ajmitch> no, I'd have to look it up myself
[04:01] <leetcharmer> ah, kk
[04:01] <leetcharmer> so -- then the concept of a universal package manager is pretty whack?
[04:02] <ajmitch> just an example - http://www.netsplit.com/blog/tech/autopackage.html
[04:02] <ajmitch> http://www.netsplit.com/blog/tech/autopackage_II.html
[04:04] <jsgotangco> autopackage is pretty whacked if you ask me
[04:04] <jsgotangco> :)
[04:07] <leetcharmer> hrmm ... well I guess because debs are already taken care of there's really nothing more that needs to be done
[04:07] <leetcharmer> but if you wanted to install something from rpm, you gotta alien first
[04:07] <leetcharmer> (methinks)
[04:08] <leetcharmer> but, I suppose U could always go w/ tars
[04:08] <LaserJock> heah ajmitch: that python-wxversion bug (#3252) isn't as easy to fix as I thought. The Ubuntu source is FTBFS for me (unmet dep)
[04:08] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I doubt that..
[04:09] <leetcharmer> what are your thoughts on if somebody made a tgz installer that resembled autopackage in the way it manages programs?
[04:09] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I get   libgtk2.0-dev: Depends: libpango1.0-dev (>= 1.9.1) but it is not going to be installed
[04:09] <LaserJock>                  Depends: libcairo1-dev (>= 0.6) but it is not going to be installed
[04:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sounds more like a broken system
[04:09] <ajmitch> since those packages are definitely there
[04:09] <LaserJock> hmm, I will go check my pbuilder
[04:10] <Amaranth> libcairo1-dev? doesn't libcairo2 conflict with libcairo1?
[04:10] <ajmitch> Amaranth: yes
[04:10] <Amaranth> so, um, yeah...
[04:10] <ajmitch> and python-wxversion source doesn't mention cairo in build-deps at all
[04:11] <ajmitch> so.. very out-of-date pbuilder, I'd say
[04:12] <LaserJock> hmm, but I just set it up today
[04:12] <Amaranth> i've got a new version of smeg ready for testing but i can't even test it myself because of the old bug where non-local filechoosers freeze
[04:13] <leetcharmer> *hands Amaranth a breezy CD.
[04:13] <leetcharmer> :/
[04:13] <Amaranth> because of something that changed in gnome-vfs, i think
[04:13] <leetcharmer> : uh
[04:13] <leetcharmer> :/
[04:13] <leetcharmer> stupid IRC, I forgot commands
[04:13] <leetcharmer> -.-*
[04:14] <ajmitch> Amaranth: how is that stopping you?
[04:14] <Amaranth> ajmitch: i can't make the filechooser non-local, it's a part of a gnomeui widget i use
[04:14] <ajmitch> and your system needs updated..? or how will a breezy cd help?
[04:15] <leetcharmer> okies -- well, brb, gotta finish PE project :D
[04:45] <LaserJock> hi all: are you getting GPG errors for breezy and breezy-updates when you apt-get update?
[04:45] <ajmitch_> yay
[04:46] <ajmitch_> seems that my computer is cooking & rebooting
[04:46] <crimsun> LaserJock: yes, known, but unknown ETA.
[04:47] <Amaranth> whenever that happened to me before the mirror was in the middle of updating
[04:47] <LaserJock> ok, well does it cause any problems?
[04:47] <Amaranth> so it's probably from the heavy load
[04:50] <LaserJock> I am getting weird versioning with wxwidgets2.6
[04:50] <crimsun> the source?
[04:50] <crimsun> that would be odd
[04:50] <LaserJock> 1st of all: when I try apt-get source wxwidgets2.6 I get 404's
[04:51] <LaserJock> and it's pointing to 2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2
[04:51] <LaserJock> packages.ubuntu.com has the same thing
[04:52] <LaserJock> but on http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wxwidgets2.6/  it only has 2.6.1.1ubuntu3
[04:53] <Amaranth> the mirror is in the middle of updating, p.u.c is out of date
[04:53] <Amaranth> that's the only thing i can think of
[04:53] <Amaranth> unless the archive is just broken
[04:53] <ajmitch> archive broken is probably more like it
[04:53] <LaserJock> so, should I just wait?
[05:19] <LaserJock> does anybody have a guess as to when the archive will be up to date?
[05:20] <LaserJock> hmm, just seems to be us.archive.ubuntu.com
[05:43] <sn9> anybody here?
[05:44] <sn9> the ffmpeg pkg in universe needs to be rebuilt
[05:44] <TiMiDo> ok
[05:44] <TiMiDo> then rebuild it
[05:45] <sn9> i did, for myself, a rebuilt version needs to go into the repository
[05:45] <TiMiDo> then talk to someone,
[05:45] <sn9> s/, a/, but a/
[05:45] <TiMiDo> talk to ogra
[05:47] <sn9> ok, any idea when ogra won't be afk?
[08:33] <dholbach> good morning
[08:33] <ajmitch> morning daniel
[08:33] <dholbach> hey andrew :)
[08:34] <zakame> hi dholbach
[08:34] <dholbach> hey zakame :)
[09:03] <sivang> Good morning all
[09:18] <siretart> morning
[09:19] <ajmitch> hi
[09:20] <Lathiat> postgrsql makes my head hurt
[09:22] <sivang> lawhy so?
[09:23] <Lathiat> i dunno but my head hurts. :)
[09:23] <siretart> \sh_away: jdong is confusing me heavily with his java issues
[09:26] <pef> hello
[10:35] <Mortas> morning
[10:40] <dholbach> hey Mortas
[10:42] <Treenaks> Moin dholbach
[10:43] <dholbach> hey Treenaks - managed some new video crack? ;)
[10:46] <Treenaks> dholbach: no, not yet
[10:46] <dholbach> :)
[10:46] <Treenaks> dholbach: I'll let a few more guys say stuff tonight :)
[10:47] <dholbach> coool
[11:24] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[11:25] <\sh> welcome to my new breezy install ;)
[11:25] <jsgotangco> nice
[11:25] <ajmitch> yay
[11:26] <jsgotangco> i installed kubuntu today..i had some issues....
[11:26] <jsgotangco> my usb keys won't mount...
[11:49] <Mortas> anyone else getting request expired on the motu bugs page?
[11:50] <dholbach> me too
[11:50] <dholbach> filed a bug about that
[11:59] <dholbach> does anybody know how access control in malone works? for people that for example are not part of the motu team?
[12:01] <ajmitch> no, I don't sorry
[12:01] <ajmitch> I've found that people can generally edit bugs as they wish
[12:01] <ajmitch> (I think)
[12:02] <Lathiat> thats not such a bad thing
[12:02] <Lathiat> until it becomes a problem, anyway
[12:06] <herve> hello
[12:09] <ajmitch> hi herve
[12:14] <dholbach> yeah
[12:14] <dholbach> hi herve
[12:14] <dholbach> Mortas: according to ajmitch and Lathiat you should be able to "just do it (tm)"
[12:14] <ajmitch> dholbach: according to what I've heard ;)
[12:15] <dholbach>  ajmitch KNOWS :)
[12:16] <Mortas> yeah description editing ok, but marking a bug fixed nope
[12:16] <ajmitch> *cough*
[12:16] <ajmitch> right
[12:16] <Mortas> my eyes aren't all that good, but I'm not that blind :)
[12:16] <Mortas> I hope
[12:16] <ajmitch> does it not give you the option to change the bug status?
[12:17] <Mortas> nope
[12:17] <ajmitch> or does it say you must be a member of the motu (or other) team?
[12:17] <dholbach> Mortas: don't you get "edit bug status" in the right thing-let?
[12:17] <Mortas> the only time I see 'status' on the page is on the top where it says 'New' most of the time under it
[12:18] <ajmitch> Mortas: ah..
[12:18] <ajmitch> Mortas: click on the package name in that line
[12:18] <ajmitch> it's the most non-obvious thing
[12:18] <ogra> hehe
[12:18] <Mortas> that looks more like it
[12:18] <ogra> well hidden :)
[12:18] <ajmitch> yeah
[12:18] <dholbach> could somebody proof-read UniverseBugs?
[12:18] <ajmitch> and they've changed it a few times on us..
[12:19] <Mortas> ok goody
[12:19] <Mortas> now to wait till I can see the motu assigned bugs again
[12:19] <ajmitch> dholbach: a few grammar problems, but looks good
[12:19] <dholbach> ajmitch: please change them, please please please :)
[12:19] <ogra> dholbach, uh, why didnt you add that to HelpingWithBugs ... mdz is eager for content on that page
[12:20] <dholbach> ogra: you read it?
[12:20] <dholbach> ogra: it has mucho universe-stuff
[12:20] <dholbach> ogra: i'll proceed with HelpingWithBugs
[12:20] <ogra> yes, the What you can do? appliest to general bugtracking
[12:20] <ogra> great :)
[12:20] <ajmitch> dholbach: how about adding bug watches if it's in debian or upstream's bug tracker..
[12:21] <dholbach> ah yes
[12:21] <ajmitch> one of the useful malone features
[12:22] <ogra> dholbach, also look at a bug from Diziet, he always puts a link in his bugs pointing to a nice page "how to submit bugs the right way" we can probably either link it there or copy stuff from it
[12:22] <ogra> it has some helpful instructions...
[12:23] <dholbach> can't you add it?
[12:23] <dholbach> ROCK
[12:25] <ajmitch> :)
[12:32] <dholbach> a
[12:33] <dholbach> ajmitch: did you change the grammar problems? or shall i reread and learn from my mistakes or something? ;)
[12:34] <dholbach> :-p
[12:41] <ajmitch> yay for dodgy dsl
[12:42] <Mortas> awww
[12:42] <dholbach> ajmitch: it'll all be better soon :)
[12:42] <ajmitch> sure
[12:43] <ajmitch> when I move somewhere other than NZ
[12:45] <Lathiat> move to australia, its where all the cool kids are
[12:45] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I said decent DSL
[12:45] <Lathiat> my bad
[12:46] <tseng> har
[12:46] <dholbach> my new dsl in berlin is soooooo good
[12:46] <herve> come to France for probably the best telecom network :-)
[12:46] <Treenaks> herve: ROFL
[12:47] <herve> I mean it!
[12:47] <Treenaks> herve: what's so good then?
[12:47] <herve> I pay almost nothing for 18 MB + televison + illimited phone
[12:48] <herve> almost all of the network is made of optical fibres
[12:48] <herve> and there's a real competition between providers
[12:48] <Treenaks> herve: oh it's the same here.. but 20mbit/telecom/television
[12:48] <Treenaks> herve: but 20mbit down/1mbit up is useless :)
[12:48] <herve> hmm... b or B...
[12:49] <ajmitch> Treenaks: yes, like 2Mbit down/128Kbit up here
[12:49] <Treenaks> ajmitch: find a real county :)

[12:58] <ajmitch> Lathiat: assignedbugs is working fine for me
[01:17] <pef> Lathiat: hello, are you working on kcheckgmail issue ?
[01:20] <Lathiat> pef: not particularly, basically its broken i tried new debian its still broken
[01:21] <pef> Lathiat: i'm trying to fix it, authentication protocol has changed
[01:23] <Lathiat> pef: checked upstream cvs?
[01:25] <pef> Lathiat: got timeout from sf cvs since yesterday :/
[01:26] <Lathiat> pef: heh
[01:27] <pef> Lathiat: but I don't see any changes since last release, http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/kcheckgmail/kcheckgmail/ChangeLog?rev=1.10&view=log
[01:27] <pef> cvs works... very very slowly but it works
[01:27] <pef> oh
[01:58] <ajmitch> sleep time, night all
[02:01] <siretart> gn8 ajmitch
[02:09] <ogra> night ajmitch
[02:12] <StrikeForce> is there a way I can find out who is workig on certain packages?
[02:12] <StrikeForce> e.g. freenx
[02:13] <ogra> StrikeForce, Mithrandir will work on freenx ...
[02:13] <StrikeForce> oh ok
[02:14] <ogra> StrikeForce, since its planned for main once all the strangeness is ripped out of the code...
[02:15] <StrikeForce> ahh fair enough
[02:15] <ogra> s/its/it once was/
[02:15] <StrikeForce> ogra, who is good to talk to relating the python differences between kubuntu and ubuntu
[02:16] <StrikeForce> I've seen 2-3 people have problems with the rufus package in kubuntu but I haven't seen it with ubuntu?
[02:16] <ogra> i have no idea whats missing in kubuntu (i dont use it...) you should find someone who uses both worlds :)
[02:16] <StrikeForce> lol
[02:16] <StrikeForce> thats bloody hard :(
[02:17] <ogra> nope, here are some people around that work on gnome and KDE...
[02:19] <sn9> hi there again
[02:20] <sn9> the powerpc ffmpeg .deb is no good
[02:23] <sn9> ogra: word has it that i should be talikng to you
[02:33] <shawarma> I've been thinking: In hoary, there was a bug in mplayer that made it impossible to play DVD's. Due to the only-security-fixes-are-accepted policy this was true all the way through hoary even though the fix was very simple.. Are we going to continue this policy in Breezy?
[02:34] <sn9> i hope not
[02:35] <sn9> of course, it's still impossible to "play" DVDs in mplayer
[02:35] <sn9> that's by design
[02:35] <slomo> sn9: yes? what doesn't work? ;)
[02:35] <slomo> works for me...
[02:35] <sn9> there is no access to DVDNAV
[02:36] <sn9> you can only play individual titles
[02:36] <shawarma> I understand it's hard to define "trivial bug fix" in a policy, but still.
[02:37] <ogra> sn9, trivial fixes can go to breezy-updates... but they should be very trivial, very well tested and the code change shouldnt even come near a possibility that it could break
[02:37] <slomo> sn9: yes... but that's a problem with mplayer itself... they don't support it afaik... but totem should be able to show menus
[02:37] <ogra> sn9, ffmpeg that is
[02:38] <shawarma> I don't think it's fair or even very clever to force users to live with broken software when the fix is trivial to implement and very clearly won't break anything else.
[02:38] <shawarma> ogra: That would be ok?
[02:38] <ogra> shawarma, how trivial ?
[02:38] <ogra> shawarma, 1 line of code ?
[02:38] <shawarma> ogra: Yup
[02:38] <sn9> ogra: regarding ffmpeg, there is no code change involved; only a change to the build rules
[02:39] <shawarma> ogra: Same for mplayer
[02:39] <ogra> sn9, are you sure that it doesnt break anything ? did you test it on all arches extensively ?
[02:39] <ogra> shawarma, same for mplayer^^^
[02:39] <ogra> :)
[02:40] <sn9> ogra: the fix, and the problem itself, are conditional on building for ppc
[02:40] <ogra> sn9, that doesnt mean the new binary doesnt need testing ;)
[02:41] <sn9> and it also depends on how you define "break"
[02:41] <sn9> clearly the existing binary wasn't tested
[02:43] <slomo> shawarma: show me the fix for mplayer please ;)
[02:45] <shawarma> slomo: It's already fixed in breezy.
[02:45] <shawarma> slomo: I'm talking about the ac3 bug in Hoary mplaer.
[02:45] <shawarma> slomo: mplayer, even.
[02:45] <slomo> shawarma: ok... that one :/
[02:45] <slomo> sn9: and what's the ffmpeg problem?
[02:46] <shawarma> I thought the policy was set in stone since noone bothered to upload the fix to hoary-updates even though the fix has been in malone since June or July..
[02:46] <sn9> slomo: it uses memset(), thereby generating a SIGILL on G3s
[02:46] <_Tonio_> hi all
[02:46] <Lathiat> heh https://launchpad.net/products/gmailfs
[02:46] <Lathiat> someone filed a bug as a product
[02:47] <slomo> sn9: oh, another ppc user ;) can you show me the patch?
[02:48] <sn9> slomo: unfortunately, the patch is rather horrid, but it takes care of the problem
[02:48] <ogra> shawarma, wejust dont proritize hoary as high as the bugs for the next release, probably just nobody looked
[02:49] <shawarma> ogra: I'm ALMOST sure I even put it on the Wiki (it was before REVU came along)...
[02:49] <slomo> sn9: hmm... show it to me anyway ;) btw, why does memset() fail with a SIGILL on g3s? shouldn't be the case with the mplayer packages as they are compiled without altivec support atm, even the -g4 one
[02:49] <shawarma> ogra: So I just hit the not-enough-people limitation, rather than a policy limitation?
[02:49] <ogra> shawarma, still we have to care for the next release with higher proirity
[02:49] <shawarma> ogra: Hmm... That changes everything.
[02:49] <shawarma> sn9: Yeah, what's so bad about memset that it just SIGILL's?
[02:50] <ogra> if you had 300 ppl hanging around here, there would be some bored ones among then that'd look into upadtes stuff more detailed...
[02:50] <ogra> shawarma, so just get is 220 othe people and we are set ;)
[02:50] <ogra> *other
[02:52] <sn9> the fix is to put --disable-altivec on line 16 of debian/rules
[02:52] <sn9> slomo: i'm referring to ffmpeg, not mplayer
[02:53] <shawarma> I hang around a lot of Ubuntu users and when they hear I'm a member and stuff they always asked me about the DVD thing, and all I could tell them was "wait for the next release". I'd much rather have just fixed it and uploaded it myself.. Well, with REVU I suppose it'll be easier to attract attention to it.
[02:53] <slomo> sn9: oh sorry... i definetly need more sleep ;) and yes, i saw that problem before but couldn't find somebody to really test it on a g3... the same should be done for gst-ffmpeg probably
[02:55] <slomo> sn9: i thought that it maybe uses something like autodetection if altivec is available and falls back otherwise but i couldn't test it sadly :(
[02:55] <sn9> nope, it's a ./configure option
[02:56] <slomo> sn9: yes i noticed that... anyway, i will take care of it for dapper
[02:57] <Mortas> hmm interesting, can see bug page as long as I'm not logged in
[02:57] <Mortas> doh
[02:58] <Kyral> Mornin'
[03:27] <koke> wow, I just bought a wacom tablet and works nice in breezy out-of-the-box :)
[03:29] <herve> nice to know, I'll retry my old graphire2
[03:29] <zyga> koke: it worked out of the box on fedora 1
[03:29] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:29] <zyga> koke: did you get two separate input devices for mouse/stylus?
[03:30] <koke> last time I tried was about 2 years ago :)
[03:30] <zyga> hi bddebian
[03:30] <koke> before fedora and ubuntu IIRC
[03:30] <bddebian> Hello zyga
[03:30] <koke> in debian woody
[03:30] <koke> but I can't find info to setup gimp to use pressure sensitivity
[03:30] <koke> :(
[03:37] <herve> last time I tried, the wheel worked backwards!
[03:37] <bddebian> herve!!!
[03:37] <herve> barry!!!
[03:37] <bddebian> How have you been?
[03:37] <herve> not so bad
[03:40] <bddebian> Well we've missed you being around :-)
[03:51] <herve> I missed you too :-)
[03:51] <bddebian> suuuuuure ;-)
[04:00] <freeflying> anyone know MartinPitt
[04:00] <Treenaks> never heard of him
[04:00] <\sh> pitti
[04:00] <Treenaks> freeflying: he's pitti here :)
[04:00] <freeflying> thanks
[04:01] <\sh> ok...time to go home for today...
[04:01] <\sh> bbl
[04:01] <bddebian> freeflying: Isn't that pitti?
[04:02] <freeflying> \sh tell me it's him
[04:02] <freeflying> i want to talk with him something about cjk language support
[04:04] <ogra> freeflying, i think he's gone for the day but this is the wrong channel to meet him...
[04:05] <herve> except when we have problems :-)
[04:05] <freeflying> which channel can i meet him?
[04:05] <bddebian> We NEVER have problem ;-)
[04:05] <bddebian> freeflying: #ubuntu-devel
[04:07] <freeflying> thanks
[04:24] <bddebian> Mark thinks we MOTU's are well organized?  They must have some good drugs in South Africa ;-P
[04:24] <dholbach> where did he say that?
[04:25] <bddebian> dholbach: A reply to ubuntu-devel ML to the Ghanian folks
[04:26] <dholbach> ah cool :)
[04:26] <dholbach> erm... welll ... erm ... :)
[04:27] <ogra> must have been your work, i didnt organize anything :)
[04:27] <herve> have we even have a leader? :)
[04:27] <bddebian> Doh
[04:29] <herve> ouch! malone sorts ids lexicographically, not numerically
[04:30] <bddebian> :)
[04:32] <Amaranth> herve: 1, 10, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9?
[04:32] <herve> yes
[04:33] <herve> bug reported
[04:36] <herve> bug #1 44 weeks old and no one to fix it? :-)
[04:36] <bddebian> Heh
[05:13] <dholbach> guys, look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserContributedDebs
[05:14] <ogra> DanielHolbach2 ? you and your split personality....
[05:15] <dholbach> that's not, what i was referring to
[05:15] <ogra> who is Coolaj86 ?
[05:17] <ogra> why the heck does he want you to download the debs to /usr/local before installing ?
[05:18] <dholbach> dunno
[05:18] <dholbach> i just left the comment
[05:19] <ogra> fine... did you consider 48pt font and blink tags ?
[05:19] <ogra> would be worth it :)
[05:19] <dholbach> dunno how to do that in the wiki
[05:19] <ogra> you could also have pointed him to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreakMyUbuntu :) it still exists
[05:21] <dholbach> *cry*
[05:25] <ogra> you wont be able to avoid people doing strange things on the wiki :)
[05:26] <Mortas> eeeuw it hurts
[05:27] <Mortas> can't we burn those people?
[05:27] <Mortas> just as a little hint
[05:28] <dholbach> tststs
[05:29] <dholbach> Mortas: you signed the CoC? :)
[05:29] <dholbach> did you read it? :)
[05:29] <dholbach> but i understand :)
[05:34] <Mortas> a slight non insulting but slightly violent expression of my feelings
[05:34] <Mortas> should be allowed :)
[05:35] <Mortas> and I never read what I sign anyway
[05:35] <Mortas> it removes the excitement otherwise
[05:40] <TiMiDo> hey everyone
[05:42] <dholbach> hi timido
[05:43] <TiMiDo> wuz up dholbach
[05:43] <dholbach> cool, did you read a bit on the motu wiki pages?
[05:43] <TiMiDo> yes i did
[05:44] <zenrox> TiMiDo,  bitchX
[05:44] <zenrox> ???
[05:44] <TiMiDo> yeah
[05:44] <dholbach> then you already know what to do ;-)
[05:44] <TiMiDo> aaron@bitchx.org
[05:44] <zenrox> sweet
[05:44] <dholbach> just kidding - what are you interested in?
[05:44] <TiMiDo> yeah
[05:44] <Loiosh> Heh
[05:44] <occy> dholbach, howdy
[05:44] <dholbach> hi occy
[05:44] <TiMiDo> dholbach; doing anything as long i'm in the ubuntu community (:
[05:44] <occy> dholbach, join #tango if you don't mind. ;)
[05:45] <dholbach> TiMiDo: cool, bddebian is our workload minister, he surely has an idea of what to do
[05:45] <occy> oops, forgot the magic word.
[05:45] <bddebian> Heh
[05:45] <occy> dholbach, please. :)
[05:45] <TiMiDo> oh
[05:45] <occy> hehe
[05:46] <occy> peace peeps
[05:46] <occy> zenrox, hey!
[05:46] <occy> ;)
[05:46] <zenrox> hay occy
[05:46] <zenrox> just woke up and trying to roll a ciggy
[05:47] <bddebian> Heh
[05:47] <occy> zenrox, good day to stop smoking
[05:47] <zenrox> and damn it wares the coffee
[05:47] <occy> :P
[05:47] <zenrox> lol
[05:47] <zenrox> nope
[05:47] <zenrox> not today
[05:50] <Loiosh> Nice =)
[05:52] <TiMiDo> bob marley feat bone thugs - harmony - weed remix 3m29s 192 kbit/s  44100 Hz
[05:53] <dholbach> TiMiDo: you get cracking on some bug triage, if you'd like to
[05:53] <TiMiDo> is the communitycouncil in a channel
[05:53] <TiMiDo> or you have to be there
[05:53] <dholbach> TiMiDo: Mortas started on it yesterday and there's http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseBugs
[05:54] <ogra> TiMiDo, you have to attend the meeting
[05:54] <dholbach> TiMiDo: it's in #ubuntu-meeting, when there's a meeting
[05:54] <TiMiDo> where is the meeting at
[05:54] <ogra> CommunityCouncilAgenda
[05:54] <TiMiDo> oh nice
[05:54] <ogra> ^^^ wiki ^^^
[05:55] <zakame> dholbach: pardon my ignorance, but how does one do triage? =)
[05:56] <Loiosh> Heh
[05:56] <dholbach> zakame: that's what i wrote the wiki page for :)
[05:56] <bddebian> zakame: Break out the scalpel ;-P
[05:57] <zakame> ah :D
[05:57] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[05:58] <ogra> and especially for universe bugs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[05:58] <ogra> oops
[05:58] <ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseBugs
[05:58] <dholbach> :)
[05:59] <ogra> dholbach, you should really merge them ... to avoid that i make such mistakes :p
[06:02] <dholbach> ogra: i'm on it, but now the tango folks are asking me 246972946246 questions
[06:03] <ogra> youre dancing ? oh, didnt know that
[06:05] <dholbach> the icon giuys
[06:05] <dholbach> guys
[06:06] <ogra> ah
[06:23] <chillywilly> bah, my dpkg keeps segfaulting now
[06:27] <chillywilly> actually dpkg-split is segfaulting
[06:33] <\sh> re
[06:43] <herve> ++
[06:54] <\sh> hmmm
[06:54] <\sh> did I miss a meeting?
[06:55] <\sh> no...today 20 UTC
[06:58] <TiMiDo> is it an open meeting or only member could join
[06:59] <dholbach>  all meetings are open
[06:59] <TiMiDo> oh nice
[07:05] <TiMiDo> oh lol
[07:05] <TiMiDo> is \sh a developer?
[07:06] <Loiosh> Yes
[07:07] <Nafallo> TB
[07:07] <\sh> dholbach: TB
[07:07] <\sh> dholbach: TechnicalBoardAgenda ;)
[07:07] <\sh> it's strange that it isn't on the Calendar
[07:08] <Nafallo> it isn't?
[07:08] <Nafallo> the ical from the fridge has it atleast.
[07:09] <\sh> Nafallo: the wiki not
[07:10] <Nafallo> \sh: well, the fridge is the future anyway ;-)
[07:10] <TiMiDo> when is drape going to be released for testing?
[07:10] <Amaranth> damn, i won't be here in 3 hours
[07:10] <ogra> TiMiDo, 2-3 minths
[07:10] <TiMiDo> oh nice
[07:10] <ogra> *months
[07:11] <ogra> but feel free to work on it before :)
[07:11] <TiMiDo> yeah
[07:11] <TiMiDo> that's what i'm going to do
[07:12] <TiMiDo> ogra; what should i do?
[07:13] <ogra> help fixing bugs... dholbach will lead you ... or wait some days until the archive is open and help fixing packaging bugs, merge buntu changes into debian packages etc
[07:13] <TiMiDo> ok great
[07:14] <Mortas> TiMiDo: you can join me on working through the motu bug list and trying to gather all the required info to fix it
[07:14] <Mortas> keeps ya busy till the archives are open :)
[07:14] <TiMiDo> sure
[07:15] <Loiosh> Yay for upstream loving
[07:16] <pef> I've made a patch to correct this issue http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=328515 and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/kcheckgmail/+bug/2018, how should I report my patch (apart uploading my new package to revu)
[07:17] <dholbach> pef: attach the debdiff to the bug
[07:17] <ogra> pef, revu is fine... and notify the debian developer
[07:17] <ogra> (by doing what dholbach said)
[07:17] <pef> ogra: and about upstream ? a patch submission ?
[07:18] <dholbach> yeah, mail to the bug numbers in debian and on launchpad
[07:18] <pef> but my patch is against a newer release version than the version present in Debian
[07:18] <pef> so for the debdiff ...
[07:18] <dholbach> hrm
[07:19] <ogra> pef, so make a note in the bug that debian will need a new version for the patch
[07:19] <dholbach> that's a bit problematic then
[07:19] <dholbach> if it's not mergeable easily, you can still send a link to your patch saying what it is for
[07:19] <ogra> the DD should upgrade it
[07:20] <pef> ubuntu => upload to revu, set the bug to pending upload | debian => sending the patch to the maintainer, add a link to it into the bts entry | upstream: patch to the sf interface
[07:21] <pef> right ?
[07:21] <dholbach> ROCK
[07:22] <ogra> YEAH
[07:23] <pef> perfect :D
[07:23] <pef> my first really significative patch to opensource world :D
[07:25] <pef> :] 
[07:37] <herzi> pef: congrats
[07:38] <pef> herzi: thank you :)
[07:38] <herzi> who in here has got a router/firewall (this is a "in one machine" slash) driven by ubuntu?
[07:40] <Nafallo> herzi: memememe :-)
[07:41] <herzi> Nafallo: how do you save/restore the iptables settings?
[07:41] <herzi> do you call iptables-{save,restore} manually?
[07:41] <Nafallo> herzi: I run my own script :-)
[07:41] <herzi> okay
[07:42] <herzi> can you send it to herzi@abi02.de, please; i'm currently working on a small package and I'd like to see how others worked on this (to see a bit more than what I think is good)
[07:45] <zenrox> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=76713 <---woohoo updated
[07:46] <Nafallo> herzi: sent
[07:49] <ogra> herzi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT there is a hint ;)
[07:49] <ogra> with iptables-save and iptables-restore
[07:56] <LaserJock> should bug fixes be made for breezy until dapper gets going?
[07:56] <TiMiDo> great another hurricane on Miami
[07:56] <TiMiDo> that's Great
[08:01] <dholbach> LaserJock: some where already uploaded
[08:01] <dholbach> LaserJock: but -updates and -security are for severe stuff
[08:08] <TiMiDo> damn hurricanes
[08:08] <TiMiDo> saturday there's a hurricane coming this way
[08:23] <dereks__> hey guys, good work on the deskbar
[08:23] <dereks__> i love it
[08:24] <tseng> thank kikidonk
[08:24] <tseng> we dont really write software here
[08:24] <dereks__> tseng: it looks like you guys did a lot of the integrating, no?
[08:24] <tseng> dholbach perhaps
[08:24] <dereks__> like with ubuntu package search and beagle and what not
[08:24] <tseng> but i thought it was there
[08:24] <tseng> meh
[08:24] <dereks__> i dunno
[08:26] <Amaranth> ubuntu package search is just a firefox bookmark like the google search one
[08:26] <Amaranth> and i think it already did integration with beagle
[08:28] <dereks__> ohh... i am talking to kikidonk now
[08:35] <ogra> i rather think credits for the breezy integration go to dholbach
[08:35] <tseng> ogra: kikidonk wrote it so
[08:36] <ogra> tseng, yes, he's upstream
[08:36] <tseng> yes
[08:36] <dereks__> haha both deserver credit :)
[08:36] <ogra> (or she ? )
[08:36] <tseng> meh
[08:36] <dereks__> seems to me kikidonk  = gentoo user
[08:36] <ogra> just made me curious since i had in mind that only Mithrandir and dholbach uploaded it
[08:40] <Mortas> is there a way to flag a bug as 'need more info' or 'needs feedback' on malone?
[08:41] <Mortas> there are a few bugs there that have a 'reporter could you please test version X because this seems to fix the issue' and then no reply for days
[08:42] <Mortas> to group those together so they can be closed after while
[08:44] <pef> bye !
[08:49] <LaserJock> dholback: sorry, wan't paying attention ;-) What if I want to post a debdiff for a Malone bug? Should I just use breezy for now? I know it won't get in until dapper.
[08:50] <Kyral> Yo
[08:50] <Kyral> ....brb....nature...calls...
[08:51] <dholbach> LaserJock: yes
[08:54] <Kyral> back
[08:55] <Kyral> Dang LaserJock, leave some bugs for me ;P
[08:56] <sistpoty> hi folks
[08:58] <Loiosh> Hewwo! =)
[08:59] <dholbach> hi sistpoty
[09:02] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty
[09:12] <\sh> KraetziChriZ: no..i didn't check until now klibido
[09:12] <KraetziChriZ> ok :)
[09:12] <KraetziChriZ> thank you...
[09:12] <\sh> I just came back again from work
[09:12] <KraetziChriZ> i come from an LAN-Pardy with my friends
[09:13] <KraetziChriZ> i am "gerdert" :P
[09:13] <ogra> \sh, congrats
[09:14] <Kyral> mmm
[09:14] <ogra> you obviously made it in time :)
[09:14] <sivang> ~1 hr for TB meeting right?
[09:14] <ogra> Kyral, sure, but keep in mind that the underlying libs might change ;)
[09:14] <\sh> ogra: well...no fun at all...tomorrow we have to check all krypton scramblers for broken configuration and I found a new SA krypton software bug....
[09:14] <Kyral> Where is that anyway?
[09:15] <ogra> Kyral, on the wiki
[09:15] <sivang> \sh: krypton is Superman's home planet, no?
[09:15] <\sh> sivang: 45 mins
[09:15] <ogra> Kyral, or did you mean the meeting ?
[09:15] <Kyral> orga: Thats what being the package maintainer is all about isn't it ;P
[09:15] <Kyral> meeting ;P
[09:15] <ogra> thats in #ubuntu-meeting
[09:15] <\sh> sivang: well..yes, but no for scientific atlanta scramber hard+software
[09:16] <sivang> eh I see.
[09:16] <ogra> Kyral, we dont have *the* package mainainer... :)
[09:16] <\sh> scrambler even
[09:16] <ogra> its teamwork... nobody has really personalized packages
[09:16] <Kyral> orga: I meant the maintainer in Ubuntu ;P
[09:17] <Kyral> Ie: Original changes, the guy who updates the Ubuntu package ;P
[09:17] <ogra> Kyral, there is no "maintainer" for a particular package
[09:17] <\sh> Kyral: there is only the guy who broke the package again ,-)
[09:18] <ogra> if i upload a package to universe and it has a bug, feel frr to fix it and upload :)
[09:18] <ogra> *free
[09:18] <Loiosh> Hehe
[09:18] <ogra> we dont *own* packages like in debian
[09:18] <Loiosh> Love Ubuntu-style
[09:18] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/mgp/+bug/3297/ <-- I confirmed, should I changed it to accepted?
[09:18] <Kyral> I'm trying to fix it ATM
[09:19] <ogra> if you keep up with it, then accept it...
[09:19] <Kyral> I'll try to fix it ;P
[09:19] <ogra> Kyral, looks like an easy fix :)
[09:19] <Kyral> orga I know nothing about AutoTools ;P
[09:19] <Kyral> Which this seems to use
[09:20] <ogra> just move the binary to /usr/bin in the package.. thats not an autotools thing
[09:20] <Kyral> oyah...
[09:20] <Kyral> in rules right?
[09:20] <ogra> you can do everything in the debian dir of the package here
[09:20] <Kyral> I know that :D
[09:20] <ogra> in .install or if it doesnt have that in rules...
[09:21] <Kyral> install-sh
[09:21] <Kyral> but why would some binaries get placed in /usr/X11R6/bin and others in /usr/bin?
[09:22] <Kyral> I'll confirm. If I fix it I will Accept it ;P
[09:25] <LaserJock> what is the convention for versioning bug fixes?
[09:26] <ajmitch> morning all
[09:26] <bddebian> LaserJock: You mean like Xubuntu1
[09:26] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[09:26] <ajmitch> I see that soyuz stuff has landed
[09:26] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/avahi
[09:27] <LaserJock> bddebian: seems like I read on a wiki page that it should be XubuntuYbuild1 or something like that
[09:27] <ajmitch> or is in the process of landing ;)
[09:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: then that wiki page is wrong
[09:27] <LaserJock> so it should be Xubuntu(Y+1)?
[09:27] <ajmitch> if it was 1.2.3-4, then it should be 1.2.3-4ubuntu1
[09:28] <LaserJock> ok, good, that is what I have been doing but I swear I saw that on a wiki page somewhere (can't find it at the moment)
[09:28] <ogra> or if its not in debian yet 1.2.3-0ubuntu1
[09:29] <dholbach> LaserJock: buildN is if you have a plain debian package and just rebuild it (and don't do anything else)
[09:29] <ogra> if and only if its only a rebuild to reflect a fix in a lib or something, then you do Xbuild1
[09:29] <LaserJock> dholbach: aaahhh, ok maybe that is what I was thinking of
[09:29] <ogra> the merge scripts respect ubuntuX versions, but ignore buildX versions
[09:30] <dholbach> ok, i take a walk until the meeting
[09:30] <dholbach> brb
[09:30] <bddebian> Oh yeah, meeting..
[09:30] <ogra> so buildX will just get synced from debian, but ubuntuX will wait for manual sync
[09:31] <Kyral> hmm
[09:31] <Kyral> I can't find any reason why this is doing this
[09:31] <ogra> heya ajmitch
[09:31] <Kyral> except I can't find where its defining $(BINDIR)
[09:31] <LaserJock> what is the difference between a control and control.in ?
[09:31] <ajmitch> hi :)
[09:31] <dholbach> hi andrew :)
[09:31] <ogra> control.in is from hell... its evil
[09:32] <LaserJock> well, what do I do with it? can I ignore it or do I have to work with it?
[09:32] <ogra> its used by some group maintained packages in debian to fill in the maintainer field dynamically
[09:32] <ogra> LaserJock, you talk about ontrol.in in the debian dir, right ?
[09:32] <LaserJock> yes
[09:33] <LaserJock> right now the only problem is the .in file doesn't have dpatch as a build deb but the plain control does
[09:33] <ogra> if you want to edit the control file, you have to edit control.in
[09:33] <ogra> .in == input file
[09:33] <\sh> aeh
[09:33] <\sh> it sounds like cdbs with control maintaining system enabled...
[09:34] <ogra> eeek
[09:34] <\sh> LaserJock: check the rules file
[09:34] <LaserJock> maybe somebody edited the control file and not the control.in file last because dpatch is in control but not control.in
[09:34] <\sh> LaserJock: whats written in front of all include statements?
[09:34] <\sh> LaserJock: is there something like @cdbs@ in the control.in?
[09:35] <LaserJock> no, stuff like wx=V-headers and (= ${Source-Version})
[09:35] <\sh> LaserJock: which package?
[09:35] <LaserJock> no @cdbs@ that I can see
[09:35] <LaserJock> wxwidgets2.6
[09:36] <whiprush> dholbach: bug day announcement <-- fridged
[09:37] <LaserJock> I can add dpatch to the control.in but I thought maybe something else was going on
[09:37] <ogra> LaserJock, whats the bug # ?
[09:38] <LaserJock> 3252, it's not anything big
[09:38] <Kyral> What the hell is "Imakefile.in"?
[09:39] <ogra> LaserJock, we dont ship wxpython2.5.3
[09:39] <bddebian> xmkmf
[09:39] <LaserJock> python-wxversion should confilct/replace with wxpython2.5.3
[09:39] <ajmitch> yes
[09:40] <LaserJock> ogra: yes that is right, it is only for people upgrading
[09:40] <ogra> not even them...
[09:40] <ogra> only for people that played with broken breezy stuff ;)
[09:40] <LaserJock> no? well should I reject it then?
[09:40] <bddebian> Kyral: They are processed by xmkmf
[09:40] <ogra> 2,5 wasnt in hoary...
[09:40] <ajmitch> ogra: it was in hoary
[09:40] <Kyral> Now what is xmkmf?
[09:40] <ogra> what ?
[09:40] <ajmitch> iirc :)
[09:41] <ajmitch> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=wxpython2.5.3
[09:41] <ogra> LaserJock, anyway, to be polite you can add a replaces to be polite :)
[09:41] <dholbach> whiprush: ROCK, merci beaucoup
[09:41] <LaserJock> well, in this bug the guy says he went from Warty to Breezy
[09:41] <bddebian> Kyral: kind of a make package for X packages
[09:41] <\sh> LaserJock: add dpatch to control.in
[09:41] <ajmitch> ogra: so sadly we missed that conflicts/replaces
[09:41] <Kyral> Well I think its why somethings are being installed into /usr/X11R6/bin...
[09:41] <bddebian> Kyral: Yes
[09:42] <Kyral> Time to hack it
[09:42] <ogra> ajmitch, eeek, youre right it *was* in hoary...
[09:42] <Kyral> They ain'
[09:42] <LaserJock> ok, just to be clear should it be both replaces and conflicts or just one
[09:42] <Kyral> supposed to be there, which is what the bug is
[09:42] <Kyral> What do I edit to make it go to /usr/bin?
[09:43] <ogra> LaserJock, i think both to make sure 2.5.3 gets removed...
[09:43] <bddebian> Kyral: it should get pulled from the X11.rules stuff unless it has it's own inside the package like xprint-xorg does
[09:43] <LaserJock> ogra: ok, thanks
[09:43] <Kyral> and I don't see anything like that...
[09:43] <Kyral> so I gotta modify the package...to not use xmkmf...
[09:44] <bddebian> Kyral: No, apt-get install xmkmf ;-)
[09:44] <ogra> afaik daniels planed to get rid of xmkmf if possible
[09:44] <Kyral> bddebian, the bug is that binaries install into /usr/X11R6/bin, instead of /usr/bin
[09:44] <bddebian> Kyral: You should get files in: etc/X11/config/cf/ then
[09:44] <ogra> as soon as dapper opens Xorg will break again as much other stuff
[09:44] <bddebian> Kyral: What package?
[09:44] <Kyral> mgp
[09:45] <Kyral> I have an X11.c in the package...
[09:45] <bddebian> Kyral: Does it call xmkmf with the defaults?
[09:45] <Kyral> I'm trying to find out...
[09:45] <LaserJock> I only put the conflicts/replaces on python-wxversion because that was what was in the bug but should I include it in the other places where there are conflicts/replaces?
[09:45] <bddebian> Kyral: Doesn't debian/rules call it?
[09:45] <ogra> Kyral, look for dh_install in rules and for .install files in the debian dir... you dont need to touch the code to change the location where the binary gets installed
[09:46] <ogra> do nothing outside the debian dir ...
[09:46] <ogra> its no necessary
[09:47] <Kyral> Unless my eyes are shot, there isn't dh_install in rules
[09:48] <Kyral> nor are there any .install files in debian/
[09:48] <ogra> how does rules install the stuff then... there might just be cp or mv commands moving the compiled stuff around
[09:49] <dholbach> whiprush: thanks for putting it nicely
[09:49] <whiprush> well, I tried.
[09:49] <whiprush> need practice I guess.
[09:49] <Kyral> install -d install -m
[09:50] <bddebian> Kyral: I'm pulling the source, give me a sec :-)
[09:50] <Kyral> and nowhere is there a mention of xmkmf...
[09:50] <Kyral> Why can't people just use Autotools and makefiles...
[09:50] <Kyral> thanks for your help bddebian and orga :D
[09:51] <bddebian> Kyral: Look at debian/rules.  Right after ./configure...
[09:52] <Kyral> yah?
[09:52] <Kyral> oh..
[09:52] <Kyral> I'm an idiot ;P
[09:52] <Kyral> Just nuke the line?
[09:53] <bddebian> Kyral: NO
[09:53] <Kyral> okay...
[09:53] <bddebian> Kyral: It looks like it's calling xmkmf with defaults so if you rebuild with the newer xmkmf, it might just pick up the correct paths
[09:53] <bddebian> Look at: etc/X11/config/cf/X11.rules
[09:55] <Kyral> hmm
[09:55] <Kyral> this may be why PBuilder wasn't giving me what I needed...
[09:59] <Kyral> and it didn't pick up on the right paths...and my system is up to date...
[09:59] <phanatic> hi
[10:00] <bddebian> Kyral: You installed xmkmf?
[10:00] <Kyral> yah, I can man it ;P
[10:01] <phanatic> i'd like to package something. could somebody help me? (not looking for answers to trivial questions, but a bit of advocacy)
[10:01] <Kyral> Maybe if I append the "-a" option to the command in rules (You think I'm shooting in the dark here? I am ;P)
[10:01] <bddebian> OK, they might be overriding the paths somewhere
[10:01] <bddebian> Kyral: That might work actually
[10:01] <Kyral> yah, the manpage suggests that it might
[10:01] <Kyral> here goes :D
[10:03] <ivoks> \sh: ping
[10:04] <ivoks> \sh: there allready is kernel source in ubuntu main (?)
[10:04] <ivoks> \sh: and it's supported in the same way as images
[10:04] <\sh> ivoks: ah well..I was thinking about another type of support...but later
[10:04] <Kyral> it didn't work
[10:04] <ivoks> \sh: btw, people with >10 systems (as my self) don't have time to compile kernel for every machine - we use stock distribution kernel
[10:05] <ivoks> easier to maintain
[10:05] <\sh> ivoks: well...with 3000 servers we used cfengine to deploy the kernels...took not much time ;)
[10:05] <\sh> ivoks: with all machines of the same type and hardware
[10:05] <\sh> ivoks: but now for the TB
[10:05] <ivoks> \sh: and when you find remote bug
[10:06] <ivoks> you have to compile it again
[10:06] <\sh> ivoks: takes only a couple of minutes to compile a new one ;)
[10:06] <ivoks> it's better to use stock kernel
[10:06] <ivoks> \sh: no, you have to test it and, eventually deploy it
[10:06] <ivoks> \sh: it takes more then few minutes/hours
[10:06] <ajmitch> no bmonty again today?
[10:06] <\sh> ivoks: that's the work of actually 20 people at ops :)
[10:07] <ivoks> \sh: the problem is that we will have a hard time supporting every kernel some admin can create
[10:07] <ivoks> we should avoid that
[10:07] <\sh> ivoks: and when u work for a company which is dealing with special things sometimes it's better to have a hard monolitic kernel...
[10:08] <ivoks> \sh: i've heard so many stories how one can penetrate trough modules - i've never heard one success story :)
[10:08] <\sh> ivoks: that's why I said: Kernel Source base of ubuntu...all modules have to be tested in "monolitic kernel" and "module kernel"
[10:08] <ivoks> \sh: all? ????
[10:08] <\sh> ivoks: we had this problem...once...
[10:08] <ivoks> i can guarantee that zoran module won't compile :)
[10:09] <pef> :
[10:09] <\sh> ivoks: so the module is broken :) but now we have important stuff at -meeting :) lets discuss this later :) dude :)
[10:09] <ivoks> kernel has too many broken parts to test all combinations
[10:10] <ivoks> didn't know it's meeting
[10:10] <\sh> sistpoty: ping you there? -meeting now :) get your motu status ;)
[10:11] <\sh> bmonty: TB meeting now...get your motu status
[10:11] <ajmitch> \sh: what status can I get?
[10:11] <bddebian> STUDMUFFIN
[10:12] <\sh> ajmitch: you will get the "I can drink a beer with \sh"-Status ;)
[10:12] <ajmitch> YAY!
[10:12] <ajmitch> bddebian: no thanks
[10:12] <ajmitch> I'd rather have the beer
[10:12] <\sh> that's even more then a motu status *lol*
[10:14] <pef> ogra, hello
[10:15] <ogra> pef, meeting currently...
[10:15] <pef> ogra, yep :) do you think I've done enough work to apply for motu status ?
[10:16] <ogra> there are a lot packages tagged with your name... i'd think so
[10:17] <pef> :)
[10:17] <dholbach> pef: that would be for next meeting, but i'd be happy to see you there too :)
[10:18] <pef> dholbach, nice, I will add myself to motu candidates on wiki
[10:19] <Kyral> Wait a sec...
[10:19] <pef> and if someone has some free time... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=800 new upstream+ patch for kcheckgmail (fully fonctionnal now)
[10:19] <Kyral> *SMACK!* I haven't been remaking the package when I'm trying to change these...
[10:19] <Kyral> no wonder non of my changes don't work...
[10:19] <Kyral> err
[10:19] <Kyral> none of them work ;P
[10:20] <bddebian> Heh
[10:20] <Kyral> NOW Lets see if adding -a to xmkmf works :D
[10:25] <Kyral> ...but they are still being installed to /usr/X11R6/bin...
[10:25] <Kyral> I have half a mind to add a bunch of mv commands to the end of the install sequence in rules to fix this...
[10:27] <Kyral> It would be a hack, but it would be a hack that WORKED ;P
[10:30] <\sh> sistpoty: well done dude :) now for the real fun ;)
[10:30] <bddebian> Heh
[10:30] <Kyral> sistpoty, got in?
[10:30] <sistpoty> yippieh :)... thx
[10:30] <Kyral> Nice Dude
[10:30] <bddebian> Kyral: Yep
[10:30] <Kyral> Drinks are on you I think :D
[10:30] <\sh> after all this time...finally
[10:31] <sistpoty> hehe... now universe is all mine *eg*
[10:31] <dholbach> excellent
[10:31] <dholbach> well done, sistpoty
[10:31] <Kyral> Anyone object to me putting a bunch of mv commands in debian/rules to move the files to the right place?
[10:31] <sistpoty> thx dholbach :)
[10:32] <tseng> Kyral: uh
[10:32] <tseng> dh_install
[10:32] <Kyral> its not in the rules file...
[10:32] <tseng>        dh_install is a debhelper program that handles installing files into
[10:32] <dholbach> Kyral: dh_install is better, but comments are fine
[10:32] <tseng>        package build directories.
[10:32] <LaserJock> congrats sistpoty, that seemed kinda tough
[10:32] <Kyral> just about every variant of it is, but not "dh_install"
[10:32] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that was gentle
[10:32] <LaserJock> yeah, I suppose
[10:32] <Kyral> I know what dh_install is
[10:33] <LaserJock> That is why I will never be a MOTU ;(
[10:33] <ajmitch> you should see a grilling to get onto the ubuntu-core-dev team :)
[10:33] <ajmitch> LaserJock: rubbish
[10:33] <tseng> my grilling was like
[10:33] <sistpoty> lol ajmitch ;)
[10:33] <tseng> "i think he is the bees knees"
[10:33] <tseng> and we were done
[10:33] <Kyral> LaserJock, hey you can get in
[10:33] <Kyral> I wanna get in too :D
[10:33] <tseng> for core?
[10:33] <Kyral> You think I would fight with this thing for so long for fun? ;P
[10:34] <dholbach> sistpoty will rule dapper-changes :)
[10:34] <ajmitch> tseng: for MOTU
[10:34] <ogra> ajmitch, really ? did i ?
[10:34] <ajmitch> ogra: you did
[10:34] <tseng> ogra: harsh
[10:34] <ogra> oh, sorry for that...
[10:34] <ajmitch> I hadn't really done much :)
[10:34] <ogra> i cant even remember, it seems ages ago
[10:34] <ajmitch> so it was warranted
[10:34] <ajmitch> it was months ago
[10:34] <ajmitch> we're old hands now
[10:35] <bddebian> Heh
[10:35] <LaserJock> I just don't think I have time for the sustained contribution. I am trying to get my PhD, I just don't have time (or skills) to do what you MOTU do.
[10:36] <LaserJock> mostly the skills part
[10:36] <dholbach> LaserJock: you'll manage :)
[10:36] <ajmitch> bddebian always says that too
[10:36] <ajmitch> yet he's probably done the most
[10:36] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[10:36] <ajmitch> so we expect bddebian to be undisputed king of dapper
[10:37] <LaserJock> no doubt there ;-)
[10:37] <bddebian> Heh, yeah right.  Most of the main folks barely speak to me. ;-P
[10:37] <pietrus> i thought bddebian was a god
[10:37] <ajmitch> he is
[10:37] <tseng> bddebian: i speak to you
[10:37] <bddebian> tseng: :-)
[10:37] <ajmitch> bddebian: I speak to you
[10:37] <bddebian> pietrus: Not even close :-)
[10:37] <bddebian> ajmitch: You got your rights? ;-P
[10:37] <ajmitch> even \sh speaks to you
[10:38] <tseng> bddebian: lets have a KOP keysigning/dinner event
[10:38] <bddebian> Well he used too :-)
[10:38] <bddebian> tseng: Aye, definetely
[10:38] <ajmitch> so yeah, I have to go
[10:38] <bddebian> Later ajmitch
[10:39] <LaserJock> cya ajmitch
[10:39] <sistpoty> later ajmitch
[10:39] <tseng> i think i will be stuck at work all night
[10:40] <bddebian> Ugh :-(
[10:40] <Kyral> Okay I gotta go get food then practice
[10:40] <Kyral> If anyone fixes this mgp package, tell me how you did it
[10:41] <bddebian> Kyral: I'll try to take a look and see if I can "help" :-)
[10:41] <Kyral> As I learn more I'll get better. I'm just a beginner ;P
[10:42] <Kyral> and if all else fails, I can just add a bunch of symlinks at the end...
[10:42] <bddebian> Kyral: We are all learning, always :-)
[10:42] <Kyral> By this time next year, I'll be a MOTU. Mark my words!
[10:42] <bddebian> w00t
[10:43] <Kyral> I should have really checked sid to see if there is a fix there...
[10:51] <LaserJock> dang, there are so many questions for mjg59. It's like oral comprehensives all over again ;-)
[10:51] <bddebian> Heh
[10:51] <Kyral> lol
[10:51] <Kyral> I should sit in on one of those
[10:51] <Kyral> But I think I should focus on Ubuntu Membership first
[10:51] <bddebian> AYe
[10:51] <LaserJock> Kyral, yeah I'm thinking about that too
[10:51] <Kyral> Which should be easy, seeing how long I've been active in the Forums for
[10:52] <Kyral> I make it a point not to let a day go by without solving someone's problem there ;P
[10:52] <bddebian> Kyral: Did you join the NewUserNetwork team?
[10:53] <Kyral> ehh nope
[10:53] <Kyral> Hmm, has anyone tackled Dark Oberon in the Universe Candidates yet?
[10:54] <bddebian> Nope
[10:55] <Kyral> Its MINE :D
[10:55] <Kyral> ....do we like the ZLib License?
[10:59] <Kyral> bddebian, you suggest I join NuN?
[11:00] <bddebian> Kyral: You may want to talk to Nalioth.  I'm not even sure it's still around.  A lot of the members abondoned it, including myself :-(
[11:00] <Kyral> It is, at least the channel is
[11:00] <Kyral> and the wiki
[11:00] <Kyral> and the Launchpad Team
[11:01] <tseng> hi ajmitch
[11:01] <ajmitch> hello
[11:01] <ajmitch> I see the mjg59 grilling is still going
[11:01] <ajmitch> any good questions to ask him?
[11:01] <LaserJock> yes, it is quite interesting
[11:02] <Kyral> Can someone send me a log of this?
[11:03] <LaserJock> there is a websit
[11:03] <LaserJock> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[11:03] <LaserJock> it has all the channels
[11:06] <Kyral> Anyway food calls
[11:21] <crimsun> neat, I can vote, but I can't upload a gpg key *g
[11:21] <bddebian> Heh
[11:23] <Nafallo> haha
[11:24] <ajmitch> it's like you can vote, enlist, go off to war, but you can't drink ;)
[11:27] <dholbach> sleep tight MOTUs :)
[11:27] <sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
[11:27] <bddebian> Later Daniel
[11:27] <ajmitch> night
[11:28] <bddebian> Oh well I suppose I should head home.  Later gang
[11:28] <ajmitch> bye bddebian
[11:29] <crimsun> cya barry
[11:37] <ajmitch> great, the last comment in the meeting log mdz posted was the pony comment ;)
[11:43] <TiMiDo> hey everyone
[11:44] <Loiosh> Hewwo, Tim =)
[11:46] <TiMiDo> here here
[11:58] <Unfrgiven> morning all
[11:58] <ajmitch> morning Unfrgiven
[11:58] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: how are you?
[11:59] <ajmitch> good, good
[11:59] <ajmitch> how are you today?
[11:59] <Unfrgiven> good :)
[12:00] <Unfrgiven> where am I supposed to vote from? (for mjg59's tech board)
[12:00] <Unfrgiven> errr mjg59 into tech board
[12:01] <crimsun> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nomination-mjg59-2005/
[12:02] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven: planning to attack dapper with a vengeance?
[12:03] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: yes well definately contribute more than i did for breezy