[12:36] <Topslakr> sry guys, i asked a question earlier and then had to run out. I'm wondering what the terminal clients need to do to link up to the edubuntu terminal server.
[12:38] <ogra> they need to be able to PXE boot from the net if you dont want manual work involved...
[12:38] <ogra> and they need to be connected to the edubuntu server network wise indeed
[12:39] <Topslakr> i belive that they can. I've not tried that yet though, but i'll just need to make them boot pxe and the edubuntu server will handle dhcp ect
[12:39] <Topslakr> this will involve plenty of work on my end i belive. I'd like them to have web access and i already have another DHCP server on network that i'd like to keep
[12:40] <ogra> put a second network card in the server ;)
[12:41] <ajmitch_> ogra: is etherboot acceptable? :)
[12:41] <ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes links to all necessary instructions to set up the server
[12:41] <ogra> ajmitch_, via a rom-o-matic image, yes
[12:42] <Topslakr> I've been thinking about second nic, and it seems like my only option though the logistics are impossible if I want to do this right
[12:43] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowtoNAT has the necessary info for the setup :)
[12:43] <Topslakr> heh, I've been reading and reading. I appreciate your time though
[12:45] <ogra> if you follow the above two docs and come back if you have questions, it should be straight forward to set up :)
[12:45] <Topslakr> ok, thx
[12:45] <ogra> yore welcome :)
[12:46] <ogra> *youre even
[01:01] <Jeromee> has anyone had any luck with a HP Deskjet 3845 Printer?
[01:40] <KRomeleoN> hey
[02:35] <Burgundavia> hmm
[02:35] <Burgundavia> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/kidsthememock2.png
[02:36] <Burgundavia> JaneW, ^
[02:36] <Burgundavia> from --> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/thos/2005/10/18/0
[02:59] <ajmitch_> anyone seen jeff elkner around?
[03:30] <Burgundavia> ajmitch_, the packaging stuff?
[03:31] <ajmitch_> yes
[03:33] <Burgundavia> ajmitch_, is gournal from here packaged sanely? http://www.adebenham.com/debian/
[03:33] <Burgundavia> ajmitch_, whenever
[03:34] <Burgundavia> ajmitch_, if I ask you to do something big like that, I don't expect instant answers. I am not paying you for it.
[03:34] <ajmitch_> I can say straight away that it's not packaged right
[03:35] <ajmitch_> 0.4.1-1, with a native tar.gz
[05:12] <mhz> moin, you all
[05:13] <jsgotangco> moin moin
[05:17] <mhz> jsgotangco: are we all meeting at 12 UTC?
[05:17] <jsgotangco> as always
[05:17] <mhz> jsgotangco: sorry, forget it, I just saw 'topic' :)
[05:18] <mhz> thx anyways
[08:24] <stuporglue> IS there a list somewhere of what software is included in Edubuntu? Or what's on Edubuntu that's not in Ubuntu?
[08:48] <jane_> hi all
[08:49] <jsgotangco> hey jane_ 
[08:49] <jsgotangco> how are you doing?
[08:49] <jane_> hi jsgotangco, well thanks and you?
[08:51] <jsgotangco> err just do /msg nickserv ghost nick password
[08:51] <bimberi> jane_: /msg nickserv ghost JaneW <password> (will, um, kill her :) )
[08:51] <stuporglue> Hi there
[08:51] <jsgotangco> jane_, slacking :)
[08:51] <stuporglue> IS there a list somewhere of what software is included in
[08:52] <stuporglue>                     Edubuntu? Or what's on Edubuntu that's not in Ubuntu?
[08:52] <jsgotangco> stuporglue, its basically the same except the default install is different
[08:52] <jsgotangco> and has the kde-edu apps
[08:52] <jsgotangco> as well as blender, tuxmath and hrmmm so more kiddie apps by bill kendrick
[08:53] <bimberi> blender!
[08:53] <jsgotangco> yes it installls blender by default
[08:53] <stuporglue> I see -- It might be nice to have a list of the different software it includes on the webpage, I couldn't find one anywhere.
[08:53] <jsgotangco> i believe its on the wiki?
[08:54] <bimberi> I haven't used blender for a couple of years but it was a bit of a learning curve :)
[08:54] <stuporglue> It is possible I could have missed it.
[08:55] <stuporglue> What's the target age of Edubuntu? 
[08:55] <jsgotangco> jane_, do we have BOF topics now?
[08:55] <bimberi> i just got my rudimentary logo done and moved on
[08:55] <jane_> bimberi: cool thanks
[08:55] <bimberi> jane_: yw :)
[08:56] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes, but feel free to add more...https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
[08:56] <jsgotangco> ahhh so there's no sched yet...
[08:57] <jsgotangco> i could join a bof online if possible...but that means i'll have to wait for someone to save on the wiki
[09:07] <crimsun> -4h 53m?
[10:07] <JaneW> I have a query from a Dutch guy asking about Edubuntu traslations... what's the status on the apps do we know how many are supported in other languages?
[10:07] <jsgotangco> well ok it depends on his locales
[10:08] <jsgotangco> if theres a ton of apps translated into dutch, it comes in
[10:08] <JaneW> The Hague, Netherlands...
[10:08] <jsgotangco> our Edubuntu basically inherits them from Ubuntu itself so...
[10:08] <jsgotangco> JaneW, basically a lot
[10:09] <jsgotangco> the major european languages are usually in
[10:09] <JaneW> yup but that doesn;t cover the app
[10:09] <JaneW> s
[10:09] <jsgotangco> it does
[10:09] <JaneW> really?
[10:09] <jsgotangco> depends on the app really
[10:09] <JaneW> ogra previously said only menus and help texts etc were covered
[10:09] <JaneW> yup
[10:09] <jsgotangco> well yes
[10:09] <jsgotangco> obviously
[10:09] <jsgotangco> its gnome at work
[10:09] <jsgotangco> if its a non-gnome app, its a different story
[10:09] <JaneW> makes it hard to respond though
[10:10] <JaneW> cos either he has to reasearch all of the apps or I do :P
[10:10] <jsgotangco> well
[10:10] <jsgotangco> that's a big think
[10:10] <jsgotangco> thing
[10:10] <jsgotangco> you'll have to actually check upstream if needed
[10:10] <JaneW> FUN
[10:10] <JaneW> (not)
[10:11] <JaneW> I wish I could clear my inbox at the speed it fills... and most messages need research before answering...
[10:11] <JaneW> calls for a coffee break I think ;)
[10:11] <jsgotangco> well you made yourself point of contact :)
[10:11] <ogra> morning
[10:12] <jsgotangco> i could answer some, not all, but ogra is mr. edubuntu so...
[10:12] <ogra> JaneW, there mya be one or two apps that are not translated... but i'd say for duch we got more tan 90% coverage
[10:13] <ogra> did you guys see the /toipc ... JaneW ?
[10:14] <ogra> *topic
[10:14] <jsgotangco> oohhh blog
[10:19] <JaneW> ogra: great thanks
[10:20] <JaneW> lol
[10:20] <JaneW> Edubuntu deprivation = child abuse!
[10:22] <ogra> :-D
[10:22] <jsgotangco> check this blog entry of a friend of mine
[10:22] <jsgotangco> http://clair.pinoyweb.net/?p=450
[10:25] <JaneW> jsgotangco: very nice :)
[10:25] <ogra> yep :)
[10:25] <jsgotangco> well its actually a whole wallpaper from ubuntu-jp
[10:25] <jsgotangco> ubuntulinux.jp/wiki/ArtWorksFolder/Ubuntu-tan_01-1280x1024.jpg
[10:25] <jsgotangco> http://ubuntulinux.jp/wiki/ArtWorksFolder/Ubuntu-tan_01-1280x1024.jpg
[10:27] <JaneW> hmmm... http://www.eschoolnews.com/eti/2005/10/001200.php
[10:30] <JaneW> "Giving kids Linux in it's present state to teach them about computers is the equivalent of giving kids Maya software to teach them how to draw.
[10:30] <JaneW> The only place where modern-day Linux would be appropriate would be in grades 6 and up, meaning that the kindergarten-level artwork is vastly inappropriate and the kids (teenagers) will not accept it without some whining."
[10:30] <JaneW> should we be focussing on 12 and up rather?
[10:31] <ogra> lets add some theme choice next release
[10:32] <ogra> hmm, would have been nice from him to tell me he does an interview with me when he asked
[10:32] <jsgotangco> i thought the aim was to increase the capacity of clients...
[10:33] <ajmitch_> hi
[10:33] <ogra> ajmitch_, !
[10:33] <ajmitch_> morning ogra, JaneW 
[10:33] <ajmitch_> ogra!!
[10:33] <JaneW> morning ajmitch_ 
[10:33] <ogra> ajmitch_, which wiki pages did you mean above ? i'd like to see them
[10:33] <ajmitch_> just one, I'll see if I can find it
[10:34] <ajmitch_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources?action=diff
[10:35] <ajmitch_> I was mainly wanting to ask him where he got that info from
[10:35] <ogra> DeveloperRessources ????
[10:35] <ajmitch_> yes
[10:35] <ogra> ugh
[10:36] <ogra> yes, please revert it, its plainly wrong
[10:36] <ogra> yesterday someone in -motu told me he read about -XubuntuXbuildX on the wiki
[10:37] <ajmitch_> yes
[10:37] <ajmitch_> ogra: looks like a non-jelkner change
[10:37] <ogra> i hope he just remembered wrongly
[10:38] <ajmitch_> so, nevermind
[10:38] <JaneW> here a bit of a freedom rant, http://educationaltechnology.ca/couros/452#comments
[10:38] <ajmitch_> it's worse - it's a sabdfl change
[10:39] <ajmitch_> so we'll have to clarify with him why he made that change
[10:50] <ogra> . If you are looking for an excuse to try Linux for the classroom, do yourself a favour and download/install Edubuntu. It may be one of the easiest steps into the Linux environment. 
[10:50] <ogra> i like that :)
[10:51] <ajmitch_> very nice :)
[10:51] <ajmitch_> yay for kamion backing me up in -devel
[10:53] <JaneW> ogra: yeah that's a good one :)
[10:55] <JaneW> heh " Maybe I could put a powered by Ubuntu button... though this post is powered by Pentium III and Windows 98.... Stupid school. They should use Edubuntu (Google it) instead. They've had a final release, right?"
[11:00] <JaneW> "Wooo hooo!!!; Edubuntu; Built on top of Ubuntu, this distribution comes packed and configured to be plopped down in a classroom and just simply run. Nice job."
[11:01] <ogra> :)
[12:44] <JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 1.25 Hours
[01:21] <ogra> i just started to create some schema drawings for ltsp setups.... http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ltsp_default.png opinions ?
[01:25] <pere> ogra: it lacks the connection to the internet.
[01:25] <ogra> pere, as our default setup does ;)
[01:25] <pere> ogra: and I would add a printer to the setup, to document where the printer should be connected.
[01:26] <pere> ogra: isn't the default setup expecting two network interfaces?
[01:26] <ogra> ok, i'll do the 2 NIC variant firs and a third one for printer setup...
[01:26] <ogra> *first
[01:26] <ogra> nope
[01:26] <pere> (nice drawing, btw. :)
[01:26] <ogra> our default target (low hanging fruit as you said) is a non networked classroom
[01:26] <pere> but the black screens looks a bit dull. :)
[01:27] <ogra> hmm, i'll probably brigthen them a bit
[01:27] <pere> add a screenshot from celestia. :)
[01:27] <ogra> we have screenshots
[01:27] <pere> on the drawing, I mean. :)
[01:27] <ogra> but they wont be on the page i make this pics for...
[01:27] <pere> to replace the dull black screens. :)
[01:27] <ogra> ah, k
[01:28] <ogra> i think rather a ubuntu gdm shot ;)
[01:28] <pere> or something else with nice colors and graphics. :)
[01:28] <ogra> or simply the logo.. let me experiment a bit...
[01:28] <ogra> someo asked for some schema pics like http://k12ltsp.org/contents.html has... 
[01:29] <ogra> but i find these dia diagrams very boring and not really nice for websites...
[01:36] <JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 25 mins.
[01:37] <JaneW> ogra: nice use of 'edubuntu mustard' ;)
[01:37] <JaneW> hi pere
[01:37] <JaneW> ogra: I agree with outting something nice on the screen (edubuntu logo?)
[01:37] <JaneW> putting even
[01:38] <JaneW> ogra: would the teacher's w/s look diff in any way? (i.e. a fatter client etc?)
[01:38] <ogra> reload ;)
[01:38] <ogra> not in this release
[01:38] <JaneW> COOL
[01:39] <JaneW> looks great :)
[01:39] <ogra> i just want two of these pics... the second one for a internet enabled setup and a detailed pic for printer setups...
[01:39] <JaneW> we must ammend edubuntu girl to have 5-6 skin shades and to randomly display one of them... ;)
[01:39] <JaneW> ogra: they will help a lot
[01:39] <ogra> we can add up in the next release
[01:40] <JaneW> the pics I mean
[01:40] <ogra> yup
[01:40] <ogra> i hope so
[01:44] <mhz> hi there
[01:45] <JaneW> hi mhz!
[01:45] <mhz> JaneW: nice to see ya
[01:45] <JaneW> mhz: ditto
[01:45] <mhz> thx
[01:45] <mhz> JaneW: family ok?
[01:46] <JaneW> mhz: yes thanks, yours?
[01:46] <mhz> .oO(then JaneW is ok, too)
[01:46] <JaneW> mhz: we still haven;t spoken about the CD packaging? want to do it now on in meeting in 15 mins?
[01:46] <JaneW> mhz: indeed :)
[01:46] <mhz> fine, just the eldest kid a liitle fever, but he'll be alright
[01:46] <JaneW> shame :/
[01:47] <mhz> JaneW: "if not now, then When?"
[01:47] <mhz> hehehe
[01:47] <JaneW> agreed
[01:47] <mhz> shoot
[01:47] <JaneW> I updated our press page http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuPress
[01:47] <JaneW> can you give me one minute, just need  a glass of water...
[01:48] <mhz> sure
[01:52] <JaneW> sorry turned into a cup of coffee, which took longer, back now.
[01:53] <mhz> hehehe
[01:53] <JaneW> mhz: ok I like the covers, I presume there's an english version?
[01:53] <JaneW> mhz: also I think the plainer CD label looks better
[01:54] <mhz> english/ sure, as soon as i know which is the definitive
[01:54] <JaneW> mhz: don;t we need some text on the CD label too?
[01:54] <JaneW> well we only have a defualt english version this time...
[01:54] <mhz> label/ you mean white bg?
[01:54] <JaneW> plus since we only have one print run which needs to ship all over the world I reckon we'll have to go with english as the linga franca...?
[01:55] <mhz> text/ of course, it's just that Tecnocimiento gang decided we firt present the 'art' part and then we modify texts.
[01:55] <JaneW> I don't follow?
[01:55] <JaneW> text/ oic, ok np then
[01:56] <JaneW> label/ what do you mean?
[01:56] <mhz> label/ what do you mean by 'plainer'?
[01:56] <JaneW> I saw the one guy said the label must be more colourful, that's not possible we'll only have one colour (the red) and a text colour (white (or black))
[01:56] <JaneW> mhz: there are 2 pics of CDs, one looks plain the other has the world on it
[01:56] <mhz> ohhh
[01:57] <JaneW> we can only print on one side of the CD itself and I prefer the plainer one
[01:58] <JaneW> plus if you have an ubuntu CD (or that design that was sent) - we need to state Edubuntu Install CD - version 5.10 for intel x86. Legally free to copy, modify and redistribute. Edubuntu is a trademark of Canonical Ltd. www.edubuntu.org.
[01:59] <mhz> JaneW: pics/ there are 2, indeed. So you like better the plainer. Do you prefer it on white background (bg) or red bg?
[01:59] <JaneW> does that make sense?
[01:59] <mhz> yes
[01:59] <JaneW> I like the red CD, it's nice and bold and fits well with our theme
[01:59] <mhz> ok, red it is, then
[01:59] <JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 1 min.
[02:00] <mhz> ok, we can finish later
[02:00] <JaneW> sure we can talk in the meeting too
[02:00] <JaneW> it's relevant
[02:00] <mhz> JaneW: cd slips/ any other desing you'd like to see there?
[02:01] <JaneW> I like the design, I am just not sure if it matches perfectly with our orange and red theme...
[02:01] <JaneW> but I am happy to go with the majority vote.
[02:02] <JaneW> there's nothing I don't like about it, I am just not sure if I *love* it...
[02:02] <JaneW> I do like it though ;)
[02:02] <JaneW> ok moving to meeting
[02:03] <JaneW> calling ogra
[02:03] <JaneW> ogra: please report to #ubuntu-meeting ;)
[02:38] <JaneW> CD PACKAGING:  mhz contributed these designs for the CD packaging http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdAndSlip, please have a look and place comments at the bottom of the page.
[02:55] <pere> JaneW: hi. :)
[02:58] <JaneW> :)
[03:10] <pips1> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan
[03:10] <pips1>  more to follow... 
[03:11] <pips1> ah JaneW, you are still in the meeting room
[03:13] <JaneW> going now bbiab
[03:15] <pips1> ok, I will get in touch with henrik and jonathan
[03:26] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ltsp_default.png , http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ltsp_inet1.png , http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ltsp_inet2.png
[03:28] <mhz> ogra: educool
[03:29] <mhz> thx for listening
[03:29] <ogra> :)
[03:29] <mhz> :)
[03:30] <mhz> ogra: have you seen hno73 lately?
[03:31] <ogra> pinged him
[03:31] <hno73> hi
[03:31] <ogra> :)
[03:31] <mhz> hno73: hi
[03:32] <hno73> mhz: hello :)  Sorry, I've been out of touch for a while
[03:35] <mhz> hno73: i'm on the phone. will you be around in 10 mins?
[03:36] <hno73> mhz: I'm going on the phone too. I'll be here in about 30 min.
[03:36] <mhz> lol
[03:41] <mhz> ogra: I am trying to motivate a programmer and sysadmin of Tecnocimiento to participate of edubuntu developing. What kind of info would be key to tell him? What skills would he need? 
[03:42] <ogra> mhz, any skills are fine... i'd like to have more maintainers, but he'd have to become a MOTU first 
[03:44] <mhz> ogra: skills is too general. could you please specify some? 
[03:44] <ogra> liking to program....
[03:45] <ogra> some low python skills would be preferable
[03:50] <mhz> ok
[03:50] <mhz> and then, you 'mentor' him?
[03:50] <mhz> you assign tasks?
[03:51] <mhz> does he need to have diff hw availaable?
[03:54] <hno73> mhz: back
[03:54] <mhz> cool
[03:54] <mhz> can i shoot?
[03:54] <hno73> yep
[03:56] <mhz> Wiki pages and data/ There have been some discussion about the good or bad of the wiki merging. Despite that conversation, I'd like to focus on how to make it easier for users to find the info they look for and for doc contributors to wiki pages in a more organized way.
[03:56] <mhz> Once I thought that 'promoting' the use of standarized wiki names would be ok (EdubuntuHowToNetwork, UbuntuHowToNetwork, KubuntuHowToNetwork, XubuntuHowToNetwork, etc), but then I was told that CamelCase was not a favourite :(  So people would still see HowToNetwork title and can't tell if it is Ubuntu or Kubuntu or anything related.
[03:56] <mhz> Then I thought, CategoryEdubuntuGeneral CategoryEdubuntuHowTo, etc. But then we should train people to wiki page creation by using Templates.
[03:56] <mhz> If training is needed, wouldn't we need to consider ACL first, so people who read the 'training' pages and get familiar with how to wiki pages, get to a WikiContributorGroup or something?
[03:58] <hno73> The wiki is very open, fluid and active (those are also related) and people are keen to keep it that way
[03:59] <hno73> I think imposing ACLs would be good if we need to eliminate spam or vandalism, but not just to force people to use vthe right formats
[03:59] <hno73> why exactly is the current structure (or lack of) a problem?
[03:59] <hno73> btw: we will be adding an extra CPU to that machine tomorrow
[04:00] <mhz> because when you use RecentChanges, for example, you see info about kubuntu, ubuntu specific, etc.
[04:01] <mhz> another cpu? cooooollliiiisimo
[04:01] <hno73> Yes, filtered RecentChanges would be cool
[04:01] <hno73> by category, say
[04:02] <hno73> I think that feature in itself would greatly encourage people to start using categories
[04:03] <mhz> now you see my point :)
[04:04] <mhz> I mean, if i am at wiki.edubuntu.org, I expect everything to be edubuntu related.
[04:04] <hno73> so, how do we go about getting the filtered RC feature coded? :)
[04:04] <mhz> hehehe, my first idea was FlavourPageNames
[04:04] <hno73> but it's not that simple, because the projects are inherently linked
[04:04] <mhz> exactly
[04:04] <hno73> and many ubuntu pages are useful for edubuntu users
[04:05] <mhz> exactly
[04:05] <hno73> and developers too
[04:05] <mhz> exactly
[04:05] <pips1> hello hno73, I'm Philipp from the Edubuntu summit, I'm keen on helping with the Edubuntu website... I did some initial brainstorming today and have started putting it up on the wiki for discussion. Since you and highvoltage weren't at the edubuntu-meeting today, jane suggested I'd get in touch by email. And now you are here! :-) 
[04:05] <mhz> but, IMHO, it all starts from the person who actually starts a wiki page.
[04:06] <ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring
[04:06] <pips1> Hi mhz, you answered an email of mine to the edubuntu list, earlier ;-)
[04:06] <mhz> pips1: oh, you are Philip
[04:06] <ogra> probably someone likes to add more tet or beautify the descriptions a bit :)
[04:06] <mhz> :)
[04:06] <ogra> *text
[04:06] <pips1> mhz: yep
[04:07] <mhz> ogra: so, if FlavouredPageName is not a favourite, then Category is our only hope
[04:07] <hno73> pips1: hello :) reading ...
[04:07] <ogra> yes, i know
[04:07] <mhz> ogra: sorry
[04:07] <mhz> hno73: : so, if FlavouredPageName is not a favourite, then Category is our only hope
[04:07] <ogra> heh
[04:08] <pips1> hno73: the real meat is yet to come.. wip.. :-)
[04:08] <mhz> hno73: i'd say Category + Templates
[04:09] <mhz> and a simple page on which we motivate contributors to use a more "standarized" wiki style
[04:10] <hno73> pips1: ok :)  I'll read the meeting logs as well from earlier
[04:10] <hno73> mhz: agreed
[04:10] <hno73> One option is to drive the front-end websites with a moin wiki
[04:11] <pips1> hno73: in the meeting, there wasn't really too much discussion regarding web site yet
[04:11] <mhz> hmmm, lost me (my english problem)
[04:11] <hno73> that would encourage people to use good markup because only the mature and correct pages would make it into the 'official' site
[04:12] <hno73> mhz: have the main website be a separate moin implementation, where only a few can edit
[04:12] <mhz> .oO(ooh,, having RC differintiate between Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu, etc and also adding an icon on the same line, that'd be just perfect
[04:12] <hno73> that looks like just a website
[04:13] <mhz> hno73: oh, that, too
[04:13] <mhz> hno73: is like wikimaster and wikiwiki
[04:13] <hno73> having a different icon based on category would be cool!
[04:13] <mhz> hno73: I can start 'motivating' moin gang :D
[04:14] <hno73> we are considering a moin-based www.ubuntu.com
[04:14] <hno73> Plone is a real pain sometimes
[04:14] <mhz> we = who?
[04:14] <mhz> hehehehe
[04:14] <hno73> Jane Silber and I
[04:15] <hno73> I need to look into it more closely to see if there are any major obstacles in doing it
[04:15] <mhz> i see
[04:15] <hno73> we need to figure out how to make the side menus
[04:15] <hno73> I have some ideas ...
[04:15] <mhz> what do you need?
[04:15] <mhz> shoot
[04:16] <hno73> Not the same as standard moin menus, they need to be page context sensitive
[04:17] <hno73> perhaps we could put a # menupagename = URL at the top of a page
[04:17] <hno73> which would pull in a pre-made HTML menu
[04:17] <mhz> did you ever see Nir's section proposal for Menus?
[04:17] <hno73> or have python generate one from an array of titles and URLs
[04:18] <hno73> no, I've looked at some plugins, but not that
[04:19] <mhz> Nir used a 'plug in' he developed. He had a PageWhatever thta was called from MoinPage and it was rendered as a very cool menu on either right or left side
[04:19] <mhz> thta = that
[04:20] <hno73> yes, that sounds good. URL?
[04:20] <mhz> i'll get in contact with him again. I've been away from moin for a very while but they still love me :D
[04:20] <hno73> You would need quite a few different menu pages though
[04:20] <hno73> :D
[04:20] <hno73> and you'd have to update them by hand
[04:21] <mhz> no problem. The GOOD SPECTACULAR thing about nir's plugin is that Users control what is shown on that menu, because the plugin is controlled via normal wiki editing
[04:21] <hno73> having a python-based plugin would be even better
[04:21] <hno73> right. It's a good first option
[04:22] <mhz> python-based would be great but that would mean code touching and i don't know programming yet :(
[04:22] <hno73> I might be a able to learn some ...
[04:24] <hno73> So the point is, this page http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ is different from http://www.ubuntu.com/support/ and again from this http://www.ubuntu.com/support/supportoptions/ (the menu changes)
[04:24] <hno73> esp. if you count the moving selector thing as a change
[04:25] <hno73> then every menu is different
[04:25] <mhz> those menus are all piece of cake with nir's
[04:26] <hno73> cool. Well, I think static ones are easy, but the changing ones might be a bit harder
[04:27] <mhz> why?
[04:27] <mhz> do they change automatically?
[04:28] <hno73> no, but each page is different, so that's like 100 different menu files
[04:28] <hno73> each slightly different
[04:29] <mhz> on plone?
[04:30] <hno73> sure, look at the links above. No page has exactly the same menu
[04:30] <mhz> hmm, i mean in Moin you'd just do:
[04:30] <mhz> on a wiki page:
[04:31] <mhz> {{{section!
[04:31] <mhz> TheMenu
[04:31] <mhz> }}}
[04:31] <mhz> then go to TheMenu page
[04:31] <mhz> and just 
[04:31] <mhz>  * OneLine
[04:31] <mhz>  * AnotherLine
[04:31] <mhz>  * ThirdPageLin
[04:32] <mhz> That will render a menu with those line on a WikiPage
[04:32] <hno73> sure, but you would need to call it TheMenu101 or whatever because you'd need 100 different Menu pages
[04:32] <mhz> ahhh
[04:32] <mhz> i see your point, now
[04:33] <hno73> the change is very small, but still
[04:33] <mhz> yes. but how would it be ideal, then?
[04:34] <hno73> menustructure.py would contain an array with the full menu structure
[04:34] <hno73> some plugin would call that file and use it as input
[04:35] <mhz> ah, then you'd 'untick' pages you don't need?
[04:35] <hno73> and would show a slightly different menu depending on the active page
[04:35] <hno73> huh?
[04:36] <jeffc> hi, i'm new under edubuntu, can I expose some point of view ?
[04:36] <mhz> oh, i see now
[04:37] <mhz> jeffc: shoot
[04:37] <jeffc> i want serv some terminals
[04:37] <jeffc> i have some pb with dhcp server
[04:38] <jeffc> because i search on the wrong dhcpd.conf
[04:38] <mhz> hehehe
[04:38] <mhz> jeffc: yet another person who did not read InstallNotes :D
[04:38] <jeffc> i just find it's in /etc/ltsp not /etc/dhcp
[04:38] <jeffc> of course
[04:39] <jeffc> another thing, it's terminal are most off time some old PC
[04:39] <mhz> ogra: should we just eliminate /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf file from there?
[04:39] <jeffc> and PXE don't exist
[04:40] <mhz> jeffc: can they boot from floppy or cd?
[04:40] <jeffc> it's necessary to make an .nbi
[04:40] <ogra> mhz, doesnt work, the dhcp server needs the default file too
[04:40] <mhz> ogra: how about ''DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE"
[04:40] <ogra> mhz, nope... its the default file shiopped by ubuntus dhcp server... 
[04:40] <mhz> hmmm
[04:41] <Yagisan> jeffc: you can make the old pc's boot pxe
[04:41] <Yagisan> jeffc: even if they need to boot from floppy, cd or hard disk
[04:41] <ogra> mhz, the right fix will be in the next release when the /etc/ltso/dhcpd.conf file gets autogenerated and you simply dont need to touch iut
[04:41] <Yagisan> jeffc: to do it
[04:41] <jeffc> now the "terminal" boot but only with the same "LTSP Display Manager"
[04:41] <jeffc> again and again
[04:41] <mhz> hno73: so, to sum up... I contact moin gang and see how possible is to work out the RC thing, first. Then I try to get nir's plugin
[04:42] <ogra> jeffc, you cant log in ? 
[04:42] <jeffc> exact
[04:42] <ogra> but you use a user that exists on the server ? 
[04:42] <Yagisan> G'day mhz, talk go well ?
[04:42] <jeffc> yes
[04:43] <mhz> ogra: I bet people will still start editing dchpd.conf  after installing :D
[04:43] <jeffc> i change hosts.allow
[04:43] <ogra> mhz, yes, i cant do anything about it
[04:43] <ogra> eek
[04:43] <ogra> jeffc, why ? 
[04:43] <jeffc> just in case of ?
[04:43] <hno73> mhz: sound cool, thanks :)
[04:44] <mhz> Yagisan: yes and nop. Yes, people were happy. Nop because mplayer showed the .avi very small and I have never used it so i was no help
[04:44] <ogra> jeffc, there is only one thing you must change, as described on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
[04:44] <jeffc> i 've did that
[04:44] <ogra> jeffc, is your sshd running on the server ? 
[04:44] <mhz> jeffc: I could not login for a while until i ltsp-update-sshkeys
[04:45] <jeffc> i see now
[04:45] <ogra> mhz, that gets run on install
[04:45] <mhz> oh, right
[04:45] <ogra> dont run it a second time, except you changed the IP of the server
[04:45] <jeffc> yes it's in the "service list"
[04:45] <mhz> hehehe, which was my case
[04:46] <Yagisan> mhz: ah, mplayer didn't use the right video driver
[04:46] <jeffc> and in processus list
[04:46] <ogra> mhz, still, you should delete the od ssh keyfile first.. else you got duplicated entrys
[04:46] <ogra> jeffc, ok
[04:46] <mhz> ogra: ooh, good to know
[04:46] <mhz> Yagisan: now it sounds logical. Back then.. we just not use the video :D
[04:46] <jeffc> what file exactly ?
[04:46] <ogra> jeffc, chack if /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts exists
[04:47] <ogra> check even
[04:47] <mhz> hno73: ok, so i'll let you know the advances
[04:47] <ogra> jeffc, and check the content...
[04:47] <Yagisan> mhz: wish I could have given you a quick tut before the talk
[04:47] <jeffc> it's empty
[04:48] <ogra> if its empty/non existent, then run "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys"
[04:48] <ogra> jeffc, thats a edubuntu default install ? 
[04:48] <jeffc> yes a new install
[04:48] <ogra> hmm, very strange
[04:49] <ogra> and the instal finished properly and dropped you to gdm on the server in the end ? 
[04:49] <ogra> *install
[04:49] <mhz> Yagisan: np, I never thought they would have .avi in first place
[04:49] <jeffc> yes, but i can't boot with the kernel 2.6.9-12
[04:50] <ogra> huh ? why ? 
[04:50] <jeffc> I reinstall an old hoary to have 2.6.10
[04:50] <ogra> edubuntu and ltsp is 100% depending on features in the breezy kernel and initramfs
[04:51] <jeffc> and after i load the last kernel 2.6.12-9-k7
[04:51] <ogra> the thin clients wont work right without initramfs, hoarys kernel doesnt support initramfs
[04:51] <jeffc> i've now the 2.6.12-9-k7 of edubuntu
[04:52] <ogra> what didnt work with the default kernel ? 
[04:52] <jeffc> i don't find : error unknow 990
[04:52] <ogra> huh... strange...
[04:53] <jeffc> the hoary : no problem ; breezy : crash
[04:53] <ogra> do the thin clients work after you ran "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys" ?
[04:54] <jeffc> i go try the terminal with the update-sshkeys
[04:54] <ogra> yup
[04:54] <ogra> should let you in now
[04:54] <ogra> probably you have to reboot the client to read the new config from the server
[04:56] <jeffc> MIRACLE all it's fine ;))
[04:56] <ogra> :)
[04:57] <jeffc> my goal it's to use some old PC not for children but for student
[04:58] <ogra> fine :)
[04:58] <jeffc> it is preferable to use ubuntu+ltsp or it's the same with edubuntu ?
[04:58] <ogra> edubuntu is a bit more colourful and brighter... 
[04:58] <mhz> edubuntu is cut out for education and ltsp
[04:59] <ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuScreenShots
[05:00] <jeffc> it's "just" the theme and some packages by default exact ?
[05:00] <ogra> jeffc, techincally they are the same, excep that edubuntu brings nearly everything preconfigured
[05:00] <ogra> and added educational apps indeed
[05:01] <jeffc> do you think that an existant hoary with users can upgrade to edubuntu directly with the CD
[05:02] <ogra> hmm, good question... it should work... but you probably need to install edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop manually afterwards and the autoconfiguration of ltsp wont be done, since this happens in the first part of the CD installer
[05:03] <ogra> but you can come bac here and we can lead you through the setup, its not hard
[05:03] <mhz> ogra: edubuntu-server if i prefer kde or wm, right?
[05:04] <ogra> mhz, edubuntu-server is ltsp, postgres prepared for moodle install, apache and schooltool
[05:04] <ogra> mhz, but no autoconfiguration of ltsp ...
[05:05] <mhz> so, we are forced to install gnome?
[05:05] <jeffc> i try to load the few ltsp package on an test Pc, but i had the same problems than today
[05:05] <jeffc> now i know the pb ssh-key (grace  vous)
[05:06] <jeffc> i can try an other test
[05:06] <ogra> if you install on ubuntu, just follow the ThinClientHowto ... but note thats not necessary on edubuntu
[05:07] <jeffc> what is the state of using the CDrom player and floppy, usb... of the "terminal" ?
[05:09] <ogra> as outlined on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes thats part of the next release
[05:09] <ogra> as well as sound on the thin clients
[05:10] <JaneW> ogra: the TeacherTool meantioned in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs, is that an exisiting product or something we want to spec and produce ourselves?
[05:10] <jeffc> like in thinstation and the other PXES, very excinting ;)
[05:10] <ogra> JaneW, thats SCP which is half existent...
[05:11] <ogra> or 2/3 existent
[05:11] <JaneW> SCP?
[05:11] <ogra> Teachers Pet
[05:11] <JaneW> oic
[05:11] <ogra> the thing we talked about several times :)
[05:12] <ogra> i dont really think it makes sense to have a BOF about it
[05:12] <jeffc> i try automount with samba and "postexecute", but the umount doesn't work ;(
[05:12] <JaneW> ogra: really?
[05:12] <ogra> JaneW, i wont rewrite it... we only have 6-8 weeks development time for dapper
[05:13] <ogra> probably even less...
[05:13] <JaneW> ok
[05:13] <ogra> UVF will be a month earlier.... no features can be developed after UVF
[05:14] <highvoltage> hi.
[05:14] <ogra> in fact that brings us in a similar situation as we had in breezy... way to short time for development
[05:15] <JaneW> sigh
[05:16] <mhz> highvoltage: hi
[05:16] <ogra> JaneW, if we want to make a BOF about student management software, we should rather try to outline the TeachersPet spec more detailed... its planned to have a plugin mechanism, so it can get extended over time by external programmers or even by studen classes 
[05:17] <highvoltage> hi mhz 
[05:17] <ogra> highvoltage, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring if you have any ideas, feel free to add descriptive text 
[05:18] <ogra> its lacking a bit on descriptions whats really going on in such a setup
[05:19] <highvoltage> ogra: nice, i have one too that i wanted to put up in response the the k12 site comments, today was just too hectic.
[05:19] <ogra> but i'll put up a separate howto anyway that describes the technology more detailed step by step
[05:21] <jeffc> i've just see the scheme on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring and it's clear
[05:21] <ogra> great :) 
[05:22] <mhz> in fact, very clear :)
[05:22] <jeffc> may be say that 2 eth card can be interresting in a big network with some server dhcp in place
[05:22] <ogra> but you already know what youre doing... its rather thought for people that dont know what NIC or router means... so there will be more text needed :)
[05:23] <ogra> great suggestion, thanks :)
[05:24] <mhz> ogra: maybe, adding howto make it work when dhcp server is already there
[05:25] <ogra> mhz, then you should also go with the two NIC variant ... probably worth to add at the last pic
[05:26] <mhz> yeah
[05:26] <highvoltage> ogra: here's the one i wanted to modify for edubuntu: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/JonathanCarter/TuxlabTopology?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=topology.pdf - I'll put some explanations with your diagrams this weekend (if no one beats me to it)
[05:27] <ogra> highvoltage, but thats not reflecting our default install
[05:27] <mhz> .oO(that's higher voltage)
[05:27] <ogra> would be the third pic... which requires at least basic networking skills
[05:28] <ogra> highvoltage, do out always route through the server at tuxlabs setups ?
[05:29] <highvoltage> ogra: could you please rephrase that?
[05:30] <ogra> do you always route the thin clients through the server to get them on the net ? 
[05:30] <highvoltage> with xdmcp, you don't have much of a choice, do you?
[05:30] <highvoltage> it doesn't actually get routed,
[05:30] <ogra> thin client --> telekom goes through the server via a second NIC in your diagram
[05:30] <highvoltage> if the server has a connection, everyone has a connection.
[05:30] <ogra> yes
[05:31] <ogra> see my second pic and compare it with my third pic...
[05:31] <ogra> the second is the cheaper setup ... and yo dont have to tweak the servers defaults...
[05:32] <highvoltage> well, yes. when a lab has some kind of internet connection, we add another box that does all the caching, etc, that always connects to the second ethernet port on the server.
[05:32] <highvoltage> we do that also to spare space on the switch.
[05:32] <highvoltage> ok, checking your pic again...
[05:32] <ogra> yup, thats hat i thought
[05:32] <ogra> *what
[05:33] <highvoltage> ogra: yes, your pic 3 and my pic are exactly the same afaict
[05:33] <ogra> yes
[05:33] <highvoltage> except that i have another box between the internet and server.
[05:33] <highvoltage> sorry, you did call it "router/firewall", which could imply some kind of box.
[05:33] <ogra> yes, i was assumuing a firewall/NAT router as internet gateway
[05:34] <highvoltage> i like the way you've done it.
[05:35] <ogra> in fact i'm lazy, i only use the pic2 setup here :)
[05:35] <highvoltage> :)
[05:35] <highvoltage> ogra: what links to that page at the moment?
[05:35] <ogra> the InstallNotes
[05:36] <ogra> nothing else yet... and one mail i snt to edubuntu-devel :)
[05:36] <ogra> *sent
[05:36] <highvoltage> ok. I think I need to put a "Documentation" link on the static page, that links to "/EdubuntuDocumentation" that has a link to all our documentation.
[05:36] <ogra> yup
[05:36] <ogra> feel free to reparent as needed
[05:37] <highvoltage> ok.
[05:37] <highvoltage> ogra: also, which python container would you recommend for the edubuntu site?
[05:37] <highvoltage> i'm thinking of using python to paste together our pages.
[05:37] <ogra> hmm, rather a question for #launchpad, there are our python/web specialists... 
[05:37] <highvoltage> i thought about using psp or mod-python, but many people in my local lug suggest that i use some kind of container framework,
[05:38] <highvoltage> ah, ok.
[05:38] <ogra> they know what to do and which will be the right choice
[05:38] <ogra> :)
[05:42] <highvoltage> ogra: i also always do it as .cgi, but i thought that ubuntu wouldn't approve (and i don't think most people in ubuntu will)
[05:43] <ogra> yes, exactly :)
[05:43] <ogra> cgi is also eating cpu and mem if you have high traffic, its only good for low traffic sites
[05:43] <highvoltage> damn, here i was hoping you would say "no, cgi is fine, no one will mind!"
[05:43] <highvoltage> :)
[05:43] <ogra> dont we have our own server ? 
[05:43] <highvoltage> yes, you're right.
[05:44] <highvoltage> yes, we do.
[05:44] <ogra> so do what you like then ;) 
[05:44] <ogra> but we'll moan if it gets slow, be prepared ;)
[05:44] <highvoltage> ok, i think i'll start with cgi, just to keep things simple at the moment.
[05:44] <highvoltage> then i'll investigate some proper implementations in the meantime.
[05:44] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, i'll be prepared ;)
[05:44] <ogra> *g*
[06:06] <jfc> i've to go , thanks a lot Ogra, i'm be back when i start the server miration (hoary --> edubuntu)
[06:06] <ogra> great :)
[06:06] <ogra> youre welcome :)
[06:18] <ogra> hah... you complain about 45min outage ? 
[06:19] <Yagisan> it's only a small one today , but it's because there damm servers stop authenticating
[08:00] <pips1> highvoltage: ping
[08:01] <gr8nash2> what a cool project guys.. i cant wait to try it out at our school
[09:24] <juliux> ogra, we are at the linux days in essen
[09:25] <juliux> ogra, link is wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Messen/2005 the edubuntu server will be there also
[09:26] <juliux> ogra, just for your information
[10:23] <rem_> anyone knows how to filter porn in aMule ... ?
[10:28] <koke> hmm, sounds quite hard
[10:32] <koke> I'm installing edubuntu now and installation is quite long
[10:32] <koke> wouldn't be better to have the LTSP root in a tarball and unpack it?
[10:33] <koke> oops, maybe it doesn't fit on cd, I presume
[11:23] <ogra> koke, its a bit different, i'll explain afer the meeting...
[11:23] <koke> ok
[11:59] <ogra> still here ? 
[12:02] <ogra> koke, ?
[12:02] <koke> wait, swithcing to laptop...
[12:03] <ogra> hey :)
[12:03] <koke> hi again
[12:04] <ogra> legacy ltsp did what you described above