=== Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === asw [n=asw@karuna.med.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:35] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarksUbuntuBook === asw [n=asw@karuna.med.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:16] hey all [04:16] hi jsgotangco [04:25] forking? [04:25] sean on crack === mhz [n=mhz_chil@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jabra [n=jabra@polish.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === segfault [i=carlos@prognus.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jordi [n=jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === silbs [n=sbsm0084@host86-129-107-185.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^lt [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:12] hello rob^lt [08:12] hi jsgotangco [08:13] intresting day on the mailing list :) [08:14] oh you always need a sean to stir up the natives heh [08:15] heh yeah [08:16] jonathan has a valid point though, he's the only guy who was left during breezy [08:16] so i promised jonathan i would install kubuntu after release and do it again [08:17] kubuntu wise yeah [08:17] well, it will be an intresting meeting, hopefully sean will be there :) [08:18] im inrested to hear out on the other people as well who expressed great interest in reviving traffic [08:18] yes me too [08:18] altough its not really a documentation thing, it was interesting to know that the idea sprang up as a doc issue [08:19] well if its going to happen again most likely it will be by us [08:20] we'll see, when people have nothing to write, things like this happen :-) [08:21] heh === Madpilot [n=bburger@S0106000d88b9f3db.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:02] hmmm... why do Stephan Hermann's blog posts always seem to re-appear on planet.u.c days after they first appeared? [09:04] oh jdub says its on \sh's rss not on planet itself [09:04] maybe he is playing with the setup of his blog server. just complain to him when he gets up; should be soon :) [09:05] it's especially noticable because he usually does a bunch of posts at once, then the whole chunk reappears again... [09:05] Keybuk's blog entries are few and far in between but they sure are nice [09:06] heh... Corey mentioned my Scribus stuff in his blog... lucky me ;) === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:07] it seems everyone but me has a blog these days [09:07] I used to have one but got sick of the spam bots [09:07] just catching up on my blogs reading; it's nice to see that Mako keeps himself very busy these days with these talks on short notice; I wish I was closer to Boston... [09:07] you don't have to force youself on getting one :) [09:08] heh yeah [09:08] I kind of figured it was a bad idea for me anyway [09:10] but the blog tools now have some authentication for blog spammers [09:10] hehe theres a new chicken toy that makes choking noises when you strangle it around the neck === robitaille only got a couple of spam comment in his blog in the last few months [09:11] yeah [09:11] sometimes the spam is funny [09:11] "what a wonderful and insightful blog" [09:11] I kept getting texas holdem poker bots [09:13] rob^lt, what's your take on sean's suggestion [09:14] well I can see the benifits in what he is saying [09:14] ubuntu docs sometimes overshadow kubuntu docs [09:14] hmm my spelling sucks tonight [09:15] i don't like working in different svns === jsgotangco already has 4 svn at the moment [09:15] yes, I don't think that is a good idea though [09:16] hence my suggestion of a new svn layout [09:16] a branch would probably be acceptable [09:16] we could have /ubuntu and /kubuntu directories [09:17] and share common things like licences in /common [09:17] yeah === jsgotangco needs to get trunk soon [09:17] having more then one svn is a stupid idea [09:18] well i think sean is concerned on granting svn rights [09:18] jsgotangco, yeah but be careful its about a 200mb download due to all the upstream stuff thats in there [09:18] (or in other words unorganised crap) [09:18] if the svn is elsewhere, he can easily add people on it [09:19] maybe, but why should he have control of it? [09:19] yeah i was waiting for a jbailey cleanup but we'll know that this friday [09:19] oh he's pretty good at it actually he's more than capable to handle a team really [09:20] although its hard to get new accounts with commit access, its probably a good thing as far as security and general wellbeing of svn is concerned [09:20] yes [09:21] people can just send patches to the list, I think its a minor issue at the moment [09:21] the current svn is also pretty much limiting to him... [09:21] vendor drops, etc. [09:22] I don't seem to have a problem with it, and I have used it more then him in the last few months at least [09:22] yes [09:22] we don't really use more than 15% of what svn can do [09:22] heh [09:23] our needs are simple and our focus should be content :) [09:23] yep [09:23] technology and infrastructure are easy to discuss when we have content :) [09:24] i think we have a good base with the starter guide :) [09:24] another reason why simply changing our directory structure is a better idea, nice and simple [09:24] yeah :) [09:25] despite a few bugs everyone I talk to loves it [09:25] yeah [09:25] it will go off when we unleash help.ubuntu.com [09:25] then people on IRC/wiki/forums can link to it [09:27] oh, I remember there being a pretty good userguide on the xfce website, I was thinking about asking to use it as a base for xubuntu docs [09:27] have you seen the freebsd handbook [09:27] now thats a very good book === n1c0las [n=niklas@beryl.wknl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:27] I've read a little of it [09:28] I almost put freebsd on this laptop [09:28] heh [09:29] ok so i see myself doing kubuntu, improve the styleguide, an upstream doc and finish up on edubuntu [09:29] not bad [09:29] heh [09:30] keeping yourself busy :) [09:31] oh the upstream doc is almost done, lots of time :) [09:31] well I plan on improving the ubuntu faq guide, doing the kubuntu faq guide depending on what happens there and also starting work on a xubuntu doc, maybe the userguide I mentioned before [09:31] kubuntu has this nice app called katapult [09:32] you do an alt + space and a translucent box appears and you can type the app you want [09:32] have you checked the gnome user guide? [09:32] like a terminal? [09:32] no its not a terminal [09:32] yeah, ubuntu has a panel applet that does that [09:32] or I should say gnome [09:33] yeah but katapult is uber cool :) [09:34] heh [09:35] anyone want to have a look at the THREE php5 install pages we've got cluttering up the wiki? (given that php5 is now installable via repo in Breezy...) [09:36] gnome user guide? yeah I've thought about it === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:54] hmm, this could be bad: the faqguide on help.u.c doesn't have the licences attached [09:54] due to using xinclude [09:55] does anyone know if its using branch or trunk? [10:02] bloody hell [10:03] yes hell awaits === rob__ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:03] yep [10:03] my bike just got stolen [10:04] that sucks [10:04] go run them over in your car :) [10:04] don't have one [10:04] the worst part is that it was off my friends porch [10:04] sucks [10:05] who's steal a bike? [10:05] it was a half decent one [10:06] victoria, city of bike crime. my wife lost a bike when it got stolen inside our house (it was inside the entrance lobby, and the door wasn't locked...). [10:06] i live in the carjacking capital of the philippines [10:07] Burgundavia: you lost your bike? [10:07] Madpilot, yep [10:07] crap [10:07] Burgundavia: you reported it? (not that that'll do much good, but...) [10:08] I just got home, discovered it stolen less than 1/2 hour ago [10:08] the cops are up all night too [10:08] ya, I will call in a sec [10:09] did you loose your lights and stuff as well? [10:09] yes, that is crappy part [10:09] that expensive headlight? === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:09] because I was at John&Lindas, I didn't remove it [10:09] yep, the expensive one [10:10] Burgundavia: well, at least you're employed now... [10:10] that is no consolation [10:11] it means having income to replace the bike with, at least [10:13] yes [10:13] but having it stolen is a major downer [10:13] yeah, that sucks [10:13] I am going to call bike stores tomorrow [10:14] I might get lucky [10:14] I've been lucky, being downtown a lot, I've only lost a few lights and stuff [10:14] does yours or your friends insurance cover it? [10:14] rob^, there deductable is likely more than the bike is worth [10:14] s/there/their [10:14] ouch [10:15] well, replacement cost is about $700. Light system is about $100 [10:15] deductable is likely $500 [10:15] not that it helps, but I saw this kind on a pimped out bicycle today, it had fire painted on it and everything [10:15] one minor consolation: end-of-model-year bike sales are probably starting soonish... [10:15] s/kind/kid [10:16] Madpilot, yes [10:17] incredibly strange bike link: http://dclxvi.org/chunk/index.html [10:17] whatda? [10:18] people are weard [10:18] s/weard/weird [10:18] those people are insane, which is different to weird... :) [10:19] lol [10:19] this is like a rock band [10:19] heheh [10:19] see even spidey bikes [10:20] any ideas on how to get help.u.c links from http://help.ubuntu.com/faqguide/C/ch03s02.html#jre to help.ubuntu.com/faqguide/jre ? [10:20] my favourites, because they look so unridable: http://dclxvi.org/chunk/meet/long/index.html [10:21] Plopulator Son Of Chopulator. [10:24] it is impossible to read this page through without laughing out loud: http://dclxvi.org/chunk/meet/multiwheel/index.html [10:26] Poppa Chop. [10:26] oh man [10:26] The Gynecological Station. [10:27] It took Vog the Smeltor several nights without sleep to craft the Dog, the juggernaut of battle wagons. [10:27] The Dog of War [10:27] with metal picnic tables for wheels [10:27] no brakes [10:27] heh === Madpilot considers a trip down to Portland to drink beer with these insane people... [10:28] This ride is all about comfort and convenience. Our bi/tri-cycle technology makes worrying about how far back that wheelie can be popped nothing but a sad memory. Moreover, it also nearly eliminates the need to steer. One need only point the helm towards one's objective, pop back, and relax. [10:28] Madpilot, lets go next year when I go to OSCON [10:29] Burgundavia: sounds good, I'll loiter in Powell's and meet insane bike builers, and you can do geeky computer things [10:29] ;) [10:29] s/builers/builders [10:39] well, I just spoke to the cops [10:39] hmm? [10:39] got a police file number [10:40] well, that'll help w/ John's insurance, if they wind of filing, anyway [10:41] *wind up, that is... bleh [10:41] ya, tomorrow morning comes the fun part, calling all the bike stores in town [10:42] weeee [10:43] start with ChainChainChain - if they see it they'll call you - so will North Park, I think. [10:43] yes [10:44] jsgotangco: the real fun part is the large number of bike stores in this city - it's popular here and we're well supplied with stores... [10:45] the most bicycles and most bicycle thefts per-capita in Canada [10:45] lucky us [10:45] ;) [10:46] anyway, I need to get off the computer and crash out. Later, everyone. [10:46] night [11:07] night all, need to work tomorrow === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:29] jbailey, if you need some input on http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18050 let me know... === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Karl@ppp227-37.lns2.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [n=matt@unaffiliated/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:58] hi mdke [11:59] the licences are not showing up in the faq guide on help.u.c because of the xinclude === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Karl@ppp227-168.lns2.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:09] WaterSevenUb: I probably will eventually. [02:09] WaterSevenUb: It's not on my immediate priority list. [02:10] jbailey, ok :) It woud be great if could be solved through breezy-updates. [02:10] Yeah. I don't know if an upload for this will be approved or not. Probably, I guess [02:11] Sometimes is worse to see the translation in Brazilian than in pure English for some Portuguese people that are not familiar with Portuguese Brazilian terms... so I hope so. [02:12] anyway, thx. === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.138.168.170] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaise1 [n=Karl@ppp214-139.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:24] jbailey: awake? [02:25] jsgotangco: Maybe. =) [02:25] How's it going? [02:26] not much interesting thread on the list on the trunk structure what's your take? [02:26] Haven't caught up on it yet. [02:26] oh [02:27] well its the time of the year where all of a sudden people who didn't write that much suddenly appear after a release and make suggestions so [02:27] Right. [02:27] And you think it's worth reading these? =) === jbailey hides. [02:28] sure [02:28] well i was expecting your reply at least since you said a while back you already have an idea how trunk be structured.... [02:29] hi ppl [02:29] jsgotangco: Yeah. [02:29] I'll dive in there a bit later today. [02:29] Kamping_Kaiser: hi [02:29] :) [02:29] I had some catchup stuff to do on the support side the past couple days. [02:31] ahhh [02:40] morning [02:40] jbailey: its not worth reading all of it [02:41] i think we should make the structure changes that were suggested early in the discussion [02:43] morning jjesse [02:43] lol [02:43] jjesse: where did kgpg go? [02:47] morning jsgotangco [02:48] don't know i think there is a bug w/ it ? [02:48] i remember some discussion on kubuntu-devel the other day [02:48] Riddell: can you confirm? [02:49] kgpg is in universe where its always been [02:49] kmail was compiled without gpg support which has been fixed in -updates [02:50] hrmmmm [02:50] i thought kgpg was in main in hoary... [02:50] oh well i'm beginning to like what im seeing now though... === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:07] hey mgalvin [03:08] hey jsgotangco [03:08] hows it going [03:09] not bad interesting discussion on the list and you? [03:10] can't complain, been busy with life, finally getting some of my free time back, hopefully I can start contributing again [03:11] im not sure what i think about the split bit :| im trying to make up my mind [03:13] don't want to split want to change the directory structure [03:15] i asumed that this was for ubuntu and there was a kubuntu-doc as well, as i have seen a kubuntu and ubuntu irc chans, so i asumed it went the whole way through [03:16] it shouldn't be that way for docs, kubuntu writers and ubuntu writers can examine code [03:17] the only reason why sean would like to fork and move to another server is that it would be easier to add more svn accounts... [03:17] that's the most obvious [03:18] like i said in one of the emails, he seems to come out only when he wants to change everything to his way and then leaves when it doesn't go his way [03:18] plus the fact that our current svn is quite dated, some svn/docbook voodoo ain't possible [03:18] ok. so is the problem with the layout? or the server having support for a limited number of users? [03:19] or other?\ [03:19] Kamping_Kaiser: the layout isn't a -problem, it can be easily structured accordingly [03:19] limited access to who can create users and give access [03:19] another svn won't answer that [03:20] a distrbuted revision system will [03:21] right, im new to the concepts regarding how doco is done (more or less), so to me its all as good as any other bit [03:22] my experiance with doco is 'i write it, tehy use it, get feed back, change it, forget it' [03:22] Kamping_Kaiser: yes in my opinion infrastructure talk only hampers.... [03:22] we've got an established system let's improve on it [03:30] jsgotangco: i totatlly agee [03:30] agree [03:30] everyone always wants to change things drastically post release [03:30] it happened post-hoary and now the discussion has started post-breezy === jgotangco [i=jsgotang@202.138.169.34] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:40] bleahhh [03:40] wtf my dsl died suddenly [03:41] :( wb [03:42] where was i [03:42] oh yes [03:42] 'improve on it' ;) [03:42] right ok so... [03:42] the structure isn't the problem [03:42] the problem is people committing to write somethign then disappear midway [03:43] even if its a volunteer project at least saying "hey sorry, i can't continue, can someone continue my work, here's what i planned, good luck" sort of thing... [03:43] but nooooo [03:44] :( oh, those sort of issues [03:44] how much of the doc is in that position? [03:45] well at the moment, the trunk is full of useless stuff [03:45] that needs obvious cleanup === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:46] it got filled up because of upstream crap we have no use at the moment [03:46] its 200MB! [03:46] svn? yeh, i know :| [03:46] i downloaded it twice :S [03:47] it shouldnt be like that [03:47] i downloaded it, then i did something so i had to get it again ( i forget the details) [03:47] docbook is pretty simple really... [03:47] *fears* [03:48] i don't understand the fuss on the contributor barrier... [03:48] it really is, you can follow what other people have done and then build the doc to see if it works [03:48] OOo 2 can do docbook, let the docteam clean up just in case.... [03:49] but people who contribute in anyform is welcome [03:49] im going to learn docbook, because i despise wysiwyg editing, but its still quite a mountain (learning docbook, then offering patches) [03:50] the toolchains for gnome and kde are a bit different on the presentation layer, but it shouldn't be an issue really... [03:53] Kamping_Kaiser: i just use kate as my editor to change the docs [03:53] plus you can download the full version of the orilley guide that was written for docbook [03:53] instead of forking over money for the book [03:54] im going to end up using vim or gedit myself (depending where i am relative to computer), but an orilley sounds like a good idea [03:54] Kamping_Kaiser: use Bluefish if youre in gnome, it has docbook functionality [03:55] if i want to play with stuff, should i do that on my svn repo? or make a file somewhere else and do it there? [03:56] Kamping_Kaiser: http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/ [03:56] thanks jjesse [03:56] np [03:56] Kamping_Kaiser: well you can play around with your working copy actually...you still don't have commit access yet so you won't mess up the svn trunk... [03:57] if it doesn't work with you, you can always revert to the lastest from the server... [03:57] and another question (sorry, i have plenty for another time ), should i officaly join the docteam? [03:58] Kamping_Kaiser: if its interesting enough for you, sure we need all the help we can get... [03:59] submit a patch and stuff we'll eventually get you an svn account for sure [03:59] im not aiming at svn, its more a 'if i have to' atm ;) [04:00] Kamping_Kaiser: feel free to participate, we're an open group..eventually when you get the feel of it and it interests you, it'll be much easier to make the decision :) [04:01] :) it intrests me, its getting the hang of docbook+svn that will take time. but ill print out a bit of reading material+save a copy and se ehow i go [04:02] once we create specs for docs in a few weeks you'll have a clearer view on what you want to do... [04:03] as for now, assume its in flux [04:04] we have a good base doc atm so its natural to build upon it [04:04] nice, im still putting off fileing a heap of bugs on the (ubuntu)faq, because its going to flood rob :( but ill do it later i suppose [04:04] Kamping_Kaiser: sure flood bugzilla whenever possible [04:04] we can't spot stuff by ourselves [04:05] ok. over the next few days your going to get hit by a wave from bugzilla :( [04:05] fun :) [04:06] yeh.... [04:06] Kamping_Kaiser: don't limit yourself to Ubuntu/Kubuntu docs... [04:06] if you see errors in other documentation you see in Yelp for example, file it too [04:06] so we can tag it to upstream just in case [04:06] ok. i thought id be a bit systematic, so i have a ton of bugs against the faq. when i do them, ill look elseware ;) [04:07] ill only be trying to offer doc for ubuntu (and maybe edubuntu) as i dont have any kubuntu paackages/machines [04:08] no problem [04:08] i'm going to fill up with kubuntu for dapper... [04:09] cool. if i find i have time (i have to get a real job soon, so time might get scarse, ill see) i will see about what i can do there, but it would only be reading for bugs in doc, not adding more [04:09] me as well [04:10] Kamping_Kaiser: if you find any bugs in the kubuntu docs in svn feel free to change them (typos, grammer problems, etc) === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Karl@ppp214-139.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:26] why didnt that time out and reconnect :( oh well [04:37] ok good night going to sleep early [04:38] night === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:04] what's the subversion URL for checking out? [06:05] the non-annonymous one [06:13] you mean this? https://docteam.ubuntu.com [06:14] svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos [06:44] jjesse: that's non anonymous? [06:44] it doesn't ask for my password [06:45] Riddell: i guess i don't know the difference [06:45] when i try and commit the first time it asked for my password, and then it hasn't since [06:45] clever [06:46] is there a .svn or something that it saves in? [07:42] Riddell: your commit worked btw saw it come across the commit mailing list [07:44] cool, I'll merge stuff in, sorry for the delay [07:44] Riddell: no worries i'm really busy at work today so i haven't gotten a chance to do more then just chat here === guillaumeB [n=guillaum@HSE-Toronto-ppp3487064.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Konversation] === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [09:52] evenin [09:53] Madpilot, around? [09:54] hi mdke [09:54] ah cool [09:55] Madpilot, any thoughts on DraftWikiGuide? [09:56] mdke: looks pretty good - there should be a link to HelpOnEditing, though [09:57] well that is linked from HelpContents [09:57] but please add anything you think [09:57] i was hoping you would! [09:57] ah, so it is. [09:58] I'm going to add the piece of code that UserDocumentation uses to float the ToC over to the right under the Useful Tricks category, then [09:59] okie dokie [09:59] feel free to add guidelines [09:59] i'm conscious the page hasn't had enough edits yet [10:09] mdke: made a couple of edits and additions to DraftWikiGuide [10:11] one problem is that "Editing This Wiki" is currently at the very bottom of the FrontPage; I'm inclined to move it right back up near the top, to right below the UserDocumentation section [10:11] thoughts? [10:14] where did we leave this madnessa that was occuring on the mailing list in regards to kubuntu-docs? [10:15] jjesse: kubuntu-docs should be merged now [10:15] Riddell: thanks [10:18] Madpilot, lemme look === karlheg [n=karlheg@host-250-237.resnet.pdx.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:24] Madpilot, i think i would disagree actually [10:24] hmm [10:24] maybe [10:25] mdke: having "Editing This Wiki" right below "Searching This Wiki" and "Using This Wiki" made some sense to me, anyway [10:25] yeah fair enough [10:25] the important thing is that people can see the relevant section in UserDocumentation about how to contribute [10:26] Madpilot, so do you think DraftWikiGuide is ready for general release and linking around the wiki? [10:27] mdke: pretty much, yes [10:27] ok i'll rename it to WikiGuide [10:28] I guess we should move it first [10:30] done [10:31] geez the wiki is so slow nowadays [10:31] fingers crossed for the hardware upgrade [10:33] editing the FrontPage now [10:35] cool [10:35] (gone) [10:43] later, all - work... === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico_ [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@201-26-76-37.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc