[12:03] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: and also continue my work on introdeveloper docs
[12:04] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: alas, i wont be able to attend UBZ due to work (probs getting leave,etc.) but ill do general motu stuff :)
[12:04] <Unfrgiven> speaking of which, who do i need to see to get approved into UbuntuMembers on launchpad? I've applied almost a week back.
[12:05] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven: email a CC member, saying when you were approved at a CC meeting
[12:08] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ok thanks.
[12:08] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: you going to UBZ?
[12:08] <ajmitch> yeah
[12:09] <ajmitch> once I get everything sorted :)
[12:09] <Unfrgiven> awesome... sounds like its going to be great
[12:09] <ajmitch> hopefully :)
[12:11] <Unfrgiven> ive been trying to do a rough usability review of ubuntu lately. just from a newbie-type perspective. while Breezy rocks, I found a few things lacking
[12:12] <whiprush> hi Unfrgiven!
[12:12] <Unfrgiven> for one, you can't easily play mp3s from a Samba share (without manually mounting it). this is in Rhythmbox and also Amarok.
[12:12] <ajmitch> hey whiprush
[12:12] <whiprush> hi aj
[12:12] <ajmitch> we should stick those intro docs on the fridge! ;)
[12:13] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: hey dude! how are you? nice pics from the Gnome summit :)
[12:13] <whiprush> hey!
[12:13] <whiprush> yeah, the summit rocked
[12:13] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: yeah good idea. i'll do that in the next day or so - i did a bit more clean up on the docs
[12:15] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: what was the focus of the summit?
[12:16] <whiprush> performance
[12:16] <whiprush> mostly. I mean, people just show up to hack. But it seems like everyone was big on performance and memory usage
[12:20] <tseng> hi whiprush
[12:22] <whiprush> hi tseng
[12:30] <LaserJock> I got a debdiff to fix #3252, should I change it's status?
[12:31] <ajmitch> to pendingupload?
[12:32] <LaserJock> ajmitch: is that alright?
[12:32] <LaserJock> that is what I would think
[12:32] <ajmitch> I guess so
[12:33] <ajmitch> I regularly look at the list of pendingupload bugs
[12:33] <LaserJock> well, I didn't know if accepted would be more appropriate since I'm not a MOTU or anything
[12:35] <LaserJock> since the debdiff needs to be sponsored to actually be uploaded
[12:35] <ajmitch> set it as accepted if you wish, then :)
[12:35] <ajmitch> as long as someone will set it & upload to dapper
[12:36] <LaserJock> well, pending upload is fine as long as a MOTU is going to look at it
[12:43] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why did you need to add a dpatch build-dep?
[12:44] <LaserJock> for some reason it was in debian/control but not debian/control.in
[12:44] <ajmitch> right
[01:12] <LaserJock> is there a way to look at your subscribed bugs from your launchpad homepage?
[02:09] <sistpoty> gn8 all
[03:15] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:15] <ajmitch> good day sir
[03:16] <bddebian> Whassup?
[03:16] <ajmitch> at work
[03:17] <bddebian> Joy
[03:30] <Kyral> Farking hell
[03:30] <Kyral> I busted my glasses
[03:31] <Amaranth> mine are running on superglue until next week
[03:31] <Kyral> lol
[03:31] <Kyral> Masking tape
[03:32] <Kyral> so I have the classic busted glasses look ;P
[03:32] <Kyral> thing is I'm up at school...
[03:33] <Kyral> I'm debating running to the hardware store and buying some epoxy...
[03:33] <minghua> I had my glasses hold up by masking tape for almost two months :-)
[03:34] <minghua> my problem was a broken frame though
[03:36] <Amaranth> my frame broke right where the top of the right wire connects to the middle
[03:46] <Kyral> Mine snapped right where the bridge (Thing connecting the two halfs) connects to the oval part holding hte lenses
[03:46] <Kyral> guy down the hall is trying to soder them back together
[03:48] <Kyral> bbl
[03:48] <minghua> Kyral: good luck
[04:03] <schweeb_> howdy ogra
[04:03] <ajmitch> schweeb_!
[04:03] <ajmitch> long time no see
[04:04] <schweeb_> indeed
[04:04] <schweeb_> busy busy busy
[04:04] <ajmitch> ready for some motu action?
[04:04] <schweeb_> quite
[04:04] <ajmitch> wonderful
[04:05] <schweeb_> how's things on the motu front... haven't really been keeping track
[04:06] <ajmitch> fairly hectic
[04:06] <schweeb_> just been apt-get upgrading breezy all these months
[04:06] <ajmitch> managed to get breezy out
[04:07] <schweeb_> been busy making my millions myself :)
[04:07] <ajmitch> so we're gearing up for dapper work now
[04:08] <ajmitch> I've been busy scraping out a meagre living :)
[04:08] <schweeb_> got my contract extended another 6 months, so I'll be gainfully employed a bit longer
[04:09] <ajmitch> congrats
[04:09] <schweeb_> I'm curious to see what the focus of dapper will be
[04:09] <schweeb_> breezy is great, everything works on my laptop... some nice work by mjg59
[04:09] <bddebian> Kyral: You still here?
[04:09] <Amaranth> short or no MoM run
[04:10] <Amaranth> mostly polish and bug fixes
[04:10] <Amaranth> except for KDE, GNOME, X, and etc
[04:11] <ajmitch> Amaranth: that's under discussion
[04:12] <ajmitch> we've still got a fairly long list of features
[04:12] <tseng> sabdfl says we will sync
[04:12] <ajmitch> that will be discussed & developed
[04:12] <schweeb_> tseng!
[04:12] <tseng> sabdfl is.. sabdfl
[04:12] <tseng> schweeb_: dud
[04:12] <tseng> e
[04:12] <Amaranth> ajmitch: it's pretty much decided that there will either be no automatic merging or that UVF will be in 4 or so weeks
[04:12] <bddebian> tseng: Hey, do you know if jaldhar is close too?  Maybe we could try to get him together too?
[04:13] <bddebian> I think he's in Jersey
[04:13] <ajmitch> Amaranth: not decided, from what I can tell :)
[04:13] <schweeb_> you guys all goin to UBZ?
[04:13] <jaldhar> Jersey City to be precise
[04:13] <tseng> bddebian: who?
[04:13] <bddebian> jaldhar: :-)
[04:13] <tseng> meh
[04:13] <ajmitch> UVF will be earlier, but I'm thinking 4 weeks is *short*
[04:13] <Kyral> bddebian, in and out
[04:13] <tseng> if he wants to come here, great
[04:13] <tseng> im not going to jersey
[04:13] <Amaranth> i wish i could come
[04:13] <Amaranth> but i am 1) broke and 2) in school
[04:13] <ajmitch> schweeb_: I'll be there
[04:13] <jaldhar> tseng: so where is here exactly?
[04:13] <bddebian> Kyral: Did you look at mgp.spec?  prefix=/usr/X11R6
[04:14] <schweeb_> UVF?
[04:14] <Kyral> bddebian, nopre
[04:14] <ajmitch> evening jaldhar
[04:14] <bddebian> tseng: Afraid of Jersey are you? ;-P
[04:14] <ajmitch> schweeb_: upstream version freeze
[04:14] <jaldhar> hello ajmitch
[04:14] <schweeb_> oh, yes
[04:14] <Kyral> I'll fix it after my glasses are fixed mkay?
[04:14] <tseng> jaldhar: we are both a bit otuside philly, in different directions
[04:14] <tseng> i think a nice middle is KOP
[04:14] <schweeb_> ajmitch: I planned on being there, but as it is, I think I'm on call those weeks
[04:15] <ajmitch> Amaranth: 4 weeks would give maybe 1 week of dev time after UBZ for new upstream merging
[04:15] <schweeb_> I may convince jorge to make a road trip out there or something for 2 days
[04:15] <Kyral> bddebian, did you already upload the fix
[04:15] <schweeb_> not sure if he's going at all
[04:16] <ajmitch> Kyral: upload where? :)
[04:18] <tseng> bddebian: jersey is scary, sure
[04:19] <bddebian> Kyral: No, that doesn't totally fix it yet
[04:19] <Kyral> bddebian, ah
[04:19] <bddebian> xmkmf pukes with some weird stuff
[04:19] <bddebian> tseng: Isn't that just Camden? ;-P
[04:19] <Kyral> well I'll leave it with you. You know more about xmkmf than I do ;P
[04:20] <bddebian> Kyral: No, I don't know shit about it quite honestly
[04:20] <Kyral> Score! A guy down the hall fixed my glasses with soder and superglue!
[04:20] <bddebian> solder
[04:20] <bddebian> I think
[04:20] <Kyral> brb..
[04:21] <bddebian> Kyral: Ask ajmitch, he knows EVERYTHING :-)
[04:22] <tseng> damn its bedtime already
[04:23] <tseng> i set up my canonical laptop for real work now
[04:23] <tseng> we'll see how long that lasts before i have to install dapper of the day
[04:23] <ajmitch> 'real work'?
[04:23] <ajmitch> my real work for it will have to be dapper crack
[04:23] <tseng> all my packages and configs
[04:23] <tseng> vs...
[04:23] <tseng> firefox
[04:24] <ajmitch> with extra things that I break on top
[04:24] <tseng> which is about the only usable thing for me ootb
[04:24] <schweeb_> I set up my laptop up for real work... vpnc and all
[04:24] <tseng> Amaranth has a cool new smeg version
[04:24] <tseng> he wants testers
[04:24] <tseng> someone volunteer
[04:24] <Amaranth> :)
[04:25] <schweeb_> wtf is smeg
[04:25] <tseng> simple menu editor for gnome
[04:25] <Amaranth> the menu editor in breezy
[04:25] <schweeb_> ah
[04:25] <bddebian> A fungus I believe :-)
[04:25] <tseng> yeah it means something nasty in europe
[04:25] <tseng> or something
[04:25] <bddebian> ajmitch: Are dapper repos open?
[04:25] <tseng> bddebian: nope.
[04:26] <Amaranth> it can be short for smegma or a swear word from red dwarf
[04:26] <ajmitch> they were meant to open today
[04:26] <schweeb_> sounded suspiciously close to smit from AIX
[04:26] <ajmitch> but 'unexpected features' got in the way, I suspect
[04:26] <tseng> sigh, aix is a swear word
[04:26] <schweeb_> meh, I like it more than Solaris
[04:26] <Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/alacarte-0.8beta2.tar.gz
[04:26] <Amaranth> i changed the name
[04:26] <schweeb_> by a long shot
[04:27] <ajmitch> Amaranth: great
[04:27] <Amaranth> extract it and run alacarte-0.8/src/alacarte
[04:27] <whiprush> nice!
[04:27] <ajmitch> smeg wasn't terribly professional, as funny as it might seem
[04:27] <Amaranth> the setup.py is broken right now
[04:27] <ajmitch> just a tarball? no bzr repository or similar? :)
[04:27] <tseng> yes, alacarte smacks of professionalism
[04:27] <Amaranth> ha
[04:27] <ajmitch> tseng: a lot more than smeg
[04:28] <tseng> ok im sleeping
[04:28] <tseng> bye
[04:28] <Amaranth> i was using gnome cvs but since my dialup is windows only i just do it all locally now
[04:28] <ajmitch> good night
[04:28] <whiprush> it beats smeg-ng
[04:28] <Amaranth> night tseng
[04:28] <whiprush> nite tea-seng
[04:28] <tseng> har har miguel
[04:28] <schweeb_> just call him whorehay
[04:29] <bddebian> Gnight tseng
[04:30] <schweeb_> I should probably sleep soon too... stupid early meetings
[04:38] <Kyral> booyah
[04:38] <Kyral> guy fixed my glasses
[05:19] <Am|NickTaken> bed time
[05:53] <zenrox> ajmitch,  and look how many ppl are thare thay neet to be split to smaller groups of ppl
[05:53] <zenrox> of maby 50 -60
[05:54] <zenrox> not 200+
[05:55] <ajmitch> zenrox: yes, and good luck achieving that
[05:55] <zenrox> true
[05:55] <ajmitch> well-meaning people who give bad info are annoying :)
[05:55] <zenrox> but the idea has bine around a long time
[05:56] <whiprush> ajmitch: first, I need you to add the marillat repository
[05:56] <whiprush> ajmitch: then, install autopackage
[05:56] <zenrox> put ppl in every channel and a bot with info
[05:56] <ajmitch> whiprush: omg ok
[05:56] <ajmitch> now what?
[05:56] <crimsun> plz add dapper-backports
[05:56] <ajmitch> grab a package from debian experimental & install?
[05:56] <whiprush> nm, I'll just make a script for you, you just run it.
[05:57] <ajmitch> k
[05:57] <ajmitch> you want to vnc?
[05:57] <crimsun> tehe
[05:57] <whiprush> ./EasyAJ
[06:06] <bddebian> Heh.  Gnight gang.
[07:26] <alexr> Hi! Is this the right place to ask advice on modifying the Breezy install CD?
[08:05] <Sepheebear> does reportbug work with launchpad?
[08:06] <dholbach> hey, how are you?
[08:07] <ajmitch> hi dholbach
[08:07] <ajmitch> Sepheebear: no, it doesn't
[08:07] <dholbach> hey andrew
[08:07] <Sepheebear> ah ok, i thought there was a config somewhere
[08:07] <ajmitch> reportbug was written for debian & is just another package we inherited
[08:08] <Sepheebear> but it does work with bugzilla
[08:08] <Sepheebear> heard of any plans for a ubuntu tool like reportbug?
[08:09] <Yagisan> ajmitch: but it is a nice package, it actually grabs the deps as well :)
[08:09] <dholbach> Sepheebear: they are talking about xml rpc for malone, which will make stuff like that possible
[08:10] <Sepheebear> hrm, sounds interesting
[08:10] <Yagisan> Sepheebear: from experience, reportbug didn't send bugs to bugzilla
[08:10] <Sepheebear> it didnt?
[08:11] <ajmitch> no, it didn't and there's still an open bugreport about that
[08:11] <Yagisan> Sepheebear: when i first switched to Ubuntu from Debian, I ran reportbug when I found bugs - they never appeared
[08:11] <ajmitch> it wouldn't be hard to write a reportbug replacement
[08:11] <ajmitch> for at least most of the functionality that people will use
[08:12] <Sepheebear> report bug + query bugs what else is there for the typical user?
[08:14] <Sepheebear> i love bug# 10315
[08:18] <Sepheebear> dapper opens today no?
[08:19] <ajmitch> when launchpad is ready for it
[08:19] <ajmitch> which was meant to be yesterday :)
[08:19] <Sepheebear> bugs in dapper/main will be in launchpad too?
[08:22] <ajmitch> quite probably, although that's not certain yet
[08:24] <Sepheebear> that'd be cool, my only real gripe with launchpad is that it isnt brown, but bugzilla forget it
[08:26] <Yagisan> I'd say a bigger problem with launchpad is that it is not intuitive to search for existing bugs
[08:29] <Sepheebear> well, that and it's blue. bleh!
[08:59] <herve> morning
[09:00] <Amaranth> night folks
[09:00] <dholbach> hi herve
[09:01] <herve> am I late for the coffee?
[09:03] <dholbach> no, not really, still have here :)
[09:32] <\sh> moins
[09:32] <herve> ?
[09:33] <herve> hello \sh
[09:35] <Treenaks> \sh: your blog broke again
[09:35] <jsgotangco> its puking a lot lately
[09:36] <Treenaks> (is it reshuffling GUIDs? Is it restamping timestamps?)
[09:50] <\sh> Treenaks: nothing...I didn't even touch the blog
[09:50] <\sh> Treenaks: it's planet
[09:50] <\sh> Treenaks: i didn't even touch my server
[09:51] <\sh> Treenaks: the problem is known anyways...and planet seems to be broken somehow...
[09:51] <jsgotangco> Treenaks, yeah and jdub says its not planet so stalemate :)
[09:52] <\sh> jsgotangco: every planet implementation has problems with it :( but I'll think about changing to pybloxom if it has the features of s9y
[09:52] <herve> you guys don't have a problem with the tab key in xchat?
[09:52] <jsgotangco> herve, no
[09:53] <Treenaks> \sh: jdub claims the problem is your blog
[09:53] <jsgotangco> \sh, what happened to kgpg in kubuntu?
[09:53] <ajmitch> herve: there are a couple of different tab completion settings
[09:54] <herve> yes but nothing for setting the key
[10:03] <Treenaks> \sh: does planet ubuntu get your Atom 1, Atom 0.3 or RSS feed?
[10:04] <herve> yoohoo! I can't access the Zope 2.8.3 page with the security fix.
[10:11] <Mortas> morning guys
[10:11] <herve> hello
[10:12] <dholbach> hey Mortas, hey herve :)
[10:18] <_Tonio_> morning everyone
[10:18] <dholbach> hi _Tonio_
[10:20] <ajmitch> herve: you want to be in the pkg-zope team on launchpad?
[10:20] <siretart> morning
[10:21] <ajmitch> morning siretart
[10:21] <siretart> huhu ajmitch! :)
[10:21] <\sh> Treenaks: rss2 feed
[10:21] <siretart> say, did I miss something important in the meeting yesterday?
[10:21] <\sh> siretart: stefan is motu now
[10:22] <ajmitch> siretart: yes
[10:22] <siretart> \sh: w00t!
[10:22] <dholbach> siretart: and mjg59 gave an interview :)
[10:22] <ajmitch> siretart: we're depending on you to have good ideas for REVU2 at UBZ
[10:22] <ajmitch> because we said that you'll be there to talk about it in a BOF :)
[10:22] <dholbach> siretart: are you better now?
[10:23] <siretart> ajmitch: I have a lot of good ideas for revu2, and will implement some in near future ;)
[10:23] <ajmitch> siretart: great :)
[10:23] <herve> ajmitch, it would just be somewhat symbolic, I'm afraid I can't take commitments
[10:23] <ajmitch> siretart: is the BOF on the wiki?
[10:23] <ajmitch> herve: that's ok
[10:23] <herve> hey siretart
[10:23] <ajmitch> it just means you'll get the bugs that are assigned to it :)
[10:23] <Treenaks> \sh: ask him to switch to Atom, it might work better?
[10:23] <Treenaks> \sh: or something?
[10:23] <siretart> dholbach: yes!
[10:23] <siretart> brb (afk)
[10:24] <ajmitch> either that or I set the debian pkg-zope mailing list as the team contact address
[10:24] <dholbach> siretart: that's all that counts :)
[10:24] <ajmitch> which might be a good idea
[10:24] <herve> siretart, could you make me reviewer on REVU?
[10:24] <ivoks> ok
[10:25] <\sh> Treenaks: is atom giving the full article, like rss2?
[10:25] <herve> hey ivoks
[10:25] <ivoks> scim/uim brakes couple of apps
[10:25] <ivoks> we should fix that asap
[10:25] <ajmitch> doko: if you're around.. https://launchpad.net/people/pkg-zope
[10:25] <ivoks> herve: hi
[10:25] <Treenaks> \sh: it's your blog/feed... :)
[10:25] <ivoks> herve: what's up?
[10:25] <\sh> Treenaks: as I said as well to jdub, it would be nice, to have an error log or trace log, what's happening when planet fetches the rss2 feed
[10:25] <Treenaks> \sh: you can install a planet on your own local machine and try..
[10:26] <herve> nice launchpad, I have links to edit a page but to learn I don't have permission
[10:26] <ajmitch> heh
[10:26] <herve> sorry, always whining :-)
[10:26] <ajmitch> typical launchpad ;)
[10:26] <herve> ivoks, vacation in Paris
[10:27] <ivoks> herve: :)
[10:30] <zakame> wow, bug day tomorrow! =)
[10:34] <siretart> herve: sure, give me a sec
[10:34] <herve> it said to send an encrypted mail but I needed the REVU public key
[10:37] <siretart> herve: can you already login to revu?
[10:37] <herve> yes, my email is hcauwelier@oursours.net
[10:37] <siretart> great. mom
[10:38] <ivoks> herve: no, it's herve@ubuntu.com :)
[10:38] <siretart> herve: you should be reviewer now
[10:38] <dholbach> yay
[10:38] <dholbach> :)
[10:39] <herve> thanks siretart
[10:39] <herve> I'd prefer hcauwelier@ubuntu.com
[10:39] <herve> otherwise people won't believe it's me :-)
[10:40] <ivoks> herve: maybe it's that :)
[10:40] <siretart> herve: ;) - I think revu2 should really work on launchpad logins
[10:41] <ivoks> herve: 550 <hcauwelier@ubuntu.com>:
[10:41] <herve> yes, an unified directory is not a bad idea
[10:41] <herve> ivoks, yes I don't have any
[10:42] <siretart> ajmitch: I don't have a BoF for revu2 yet on the wiki, because there will be probably several BoFs for revu, because I want to solve several problems
[10:42] <ajmitch> ok
[10:42] <ajmitch> we need to get BOFs registered ASAP for scheduling
[10:42] <siretart> ajmitch: will work on it today or tomorrow, depending on how things go here at work
[10:42] <ajmitch> great :)
[10:43] <siretart> ajmitch: oooh. ok, I will then definitly do that tonight. at any cost. no problem
[10:43] <ajmitch> hmm
[10:43] <ivoks> ubz :)
[10:43] <ajmitch> sabdfl is disagreeing with our policy of -0ubuntu1 for new packages
[10:43] <ivoks> have a good time guys :)
[10:43] <\sh> ajmitch: where?
[10:43] <ajmitch> #u-devel
[10:44] <ajmitch> he made the change on DeveloperResources this morning
[10:44] <herve> well, if he has a better idea...
[10:44] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:44] <jsgotangco> "in sabdfl we trust"
[10:44] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: I still feel free to disagree with him ;)
[10:46] <herve> I like the idea of easily knowing which packages are not yet in ubuntu
[10:46] <\sh> bah
[10:46] <\sh> bsht
[10:46] <ajmitch> heh
[10:46] <ajmitch> \sh: what are your thoughts on it?
[10:48] <\sh> ajmitch: I say bullseggs
[10:56] <ajmitch> mm
[10:57] <herve> I thought worms are found in the ground :-)
[10:57] <ajmitch> heh
[11:29] <TMM> is dapper open yet?
[11:29] <TMM> :)
[11:29] <ajmitch> no
[11:29] <ajmitch> go back to sleep :P
[11:29] <TMM> ok
[11:30] <TMM> ;)
[11:30] <TMM> can we do bugfixes already? I read some stuff on motuwannabe, and I felt it applied to me
[11:30] <TMM> :)
[11:31] <herve> we won't prevent you but you can't upload!
[11:31] <TMM> upload fixes to revu then?
[11:32] <ajmitch> sure
[11:32] <TMM> what is the normal process for these things then? I'm not motu, but I can upload to revu, say I fix a package with unmet deps do I upload it to revu? or just put it on the wiki?
[11:32] <dholbach_> yeah, or if you fix a bug, attach a debdiff to the bug
[11:32] <herve> and one of the motu will review it and upload for you
[11:33] <herve> unless it has changed since I left :-)
[11:33] <ajmitch> I think we'll be using revu less for changes to packages, and more for reviewing new packages
[11:33] <TMM> ok
[11:33] <ajmitch> especially if we have transitions & file them as malone bugs
[11:34] <TMM> so, I find a package with that magic command on UniverseUnmetDeps
[11:34] <TMM> I fix it, and make a bug in malone, attachine the debdiff
[11:34] <TMM> ?
[11:34] <ajmitch> well, universeunmetdeps should get cleaned up now that breezy is released, and we can do syncs again
[11:34] <ajmitch> (once dapper opens, real soon now) :)
[11:35] <TMM> so, I do nothing... ? :)
[11:35] <dholbach_> yeah
[11:35] <dholbach_> ajmitch: yeah
[11:35] <dholbach_> TMM: no
[11:35] <ajmitch> the packages that were left on UniverseUnmetDeps were quite broken :)
[11:35] <dholbach_> :)
[11:35] <herve> opening a bug just for uploading may be cubersome when you have a motu under your hand
[11:35] <ajmitch> dholbach_: we'll talk about this use of malone at the MOTU meeting :)
[11:35] <TMM> there is still a bunch of packages shown with that magic command
[11:36] <ajmitch> herve: but opening a bug when the wiki page would be created is useful
[11:36] <TMM> fine, I'll have to wait a bit then
[11:36] <TMM> :'(
[11:36] <herve> I prefer bugs to maintaining a wiki page anyway
[11:36] <TMM> I'll NEVER be motu at this rate ;)
[11:36] <herve> but not opening a bug just for asking an upload
[11:36] <ajmitch> I *hateses* the wiki for those sorts of tasks :)
[11:36] <herve> if the bug already exists, ok
[11:37] <ajmitch> decent bug searches are essential for replacing the wiki though
[11:37] <dholbach> TMM: there is always bug triage, really :)
[11:37] <TMM> ow yeah, and who is this man we are supposed to make happy?
[11:37] <TMM> http://gplan.info/blog/mvo.png
[11:37] <TMM> :)
[11:37] <ajmitch> mvo!
[11:37] <herve> I thought malone was ready :-)
[11:37] <ajmitch> we really need to make this man happy : http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/2005/face-of-motu.png
[11:38] <herve> itou :-)
[11:38] <TMM> ajmitch, he looks pretty happy already
[11:38] <ajmitch> he's a happy guy by nature, but fixing stuff makes him extra-happy
[11:38] <ajmitch> and we want him to be as happy as possible
[11:38] <TMM> dholbach, hey, I was already at that! :)
[11:38] <herve> berhappy :-)
[11:38] <jsgotangco> what happens when he's not happy
[11:38] <TMM> ajmitch, what? does he do tricks then?
[11:38] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: then we have to work harder
[11:39] <ajmitch> TMM: no..
[11:39] <TMM> dholbach, but, like I said, the bugs in malone are all pretty good, and apparently, I can't fix anything yet :)
[11:39] <ajmitch> TMM: you can fix plenty
[11:40] <ajmitch> TMM: we just can't upload yet
[11:40] <dholbach> TMM: fix yes, upload later :)
[11:40] <TMM> ok then
[11:40] <ajmitch> dholbach: shall we try & make that fellow happy? ;)
[11:40] <TMM> I'm struggeling with that usplash doesn't work on s3 virge now
[11:40] <TMM> pretty funny
[11:40] <TMM> well... interesting ;)
[11:40] <dholbach> ajmitch: jhehe :)
[11:41] <ajmitch> dholbach: we can try & make him happy with beer at UBZ ;)
[11:41] <dholbach> :)
[11:42] <herve> I hope you're not buying him!
[11:45] <ajmitch> herve: will you be at UBZ at all?
[11:46] <herve> nope
[11:46] <ajmitch> a shame
[11:46] <ajmitch> it would have been good to meet
[11:46] <herve> maybe next time
[11:47] <ajmitch> seems that madduck might be there
[11:47] <ajmitch> so I think I'll talk to him about zope :)
[11:47] <ajmitch> (and doko, of course)
[11:49] <TMM> ajmitch, talk to him about django, he'll love that
[11:49] <ajmitch> :P
[11:50] <TMM> was the goal 'every app in universe has a .desktop' reached? or is that going to go on for dapper?
[11:51] <TMM> err
[11:51] <TMM> ongoing
[11:51] <TMM> :)
[11:51] <ajmitch> ongoing
[11:51] <Treenaks> TMM: it's always ongoing
[11:51] <ajmitch> and we have to work out a way to get translations, etc
[11:51] <TMM> hmm, yeah
[11:52] <TMM> perhaps some cdbs scripts for desktop files, and some rosetta integration would be in order
[11:52] <ajmitch> what would you do with cdbs?
[11:52] <ajmitch> considering that the majority of packages that need .desktop files wouldn't use cdbs
[11:52] <TMM> have it fetch rosetta translations during build?
[11:52] <ajmitch> ewww
[11:52] <ajmitch> nasty
[11:53] <TMM> meh, there are a bunch of packages that fetch the source.tar.gz from upstream in rules
[11:53] <TMM> and I hate that a lot more
[11:53] <ajmitch> which is nasty enough
[11:53] <Mithrandir> TMM: eh, no?  They have a rule which _can_ do that.
[11:53] <Mithrandir> TMM: you can't rely on network access in the build process.
[11:53] <Mithrandir> it a) doesn't work and b) is a blatant violation of everything sane.
[11:53] <ajmitch> I often build on my laptop, disconnected from the world
[11:54] <TMM> Mithrandir, I present to you : kpvnc
[11:54] <TMM> Mithrandir, kvpnc
[11:54] <TMM> Mithrandir, :)
[11:54] <ajmitch> it's just asking for breakage
[11:54] <Mithrandir> TMM: what about that?
[11:54] <Mithrandir> TMM: it has a get-orig-source which is never called by the build-process, so?
[11:55] <TMM> Mithrandir, isn't that where the upstream sources come from?
[11:55] <ajmitch> TMM: upstream sources are the orig.tar.gz on the archive
[11:55] <ajmitch> which we build from
[11:55] <Mithrandir> TMM: it's _never called as part of the build process_.  run debuild and grep the log for wget.
[11:56] <Mithrandir> why the _fuck_ does it depend on wget?
[11:56] <TMM> Mithrandir, it's called during apt-get source then?
[11:56] <Mithrandir> no
[11:56] <TMM> Mithrandir, because of the get-orig-source?
[11:56] <ajmitch> and get-orig-source was used only to remove debian/ from the upstream tarball according to the changelog
[11:56] <TMM> Mithrandir, ok... when IS it called then, because that is what it does to the orig.tar.gz
[11:57] <TMM> It looks like I just misunderstand this whole deal :)
[11:57] <TMM> sorry about that
[11:57] <Mithrandir> TMM: *sigh*, it's never called as part of the build process and so has no business being in the build-depends.
[11:57] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: that change was made by an ubuntu person, too
[11:57] <ajmitch> (non-maintainer)
[11:57] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: loic@dev.erodia.net, whoever that is, it appears.
[11:57] <herve> pef?
[11:57] <ajmitch> pef
[11:57] <TMM> Mithrandir, would you mind explaining to me what it does do then? :) I'm ignorant apparently :) sorry
[11:58] <Mithrandir> TMM: you can have a erase-the-world rule which does rm -rf / too, but unless some other rule depends on it, it won't be called.
[11:58] <Mithrandir> TMM: the debian/rules file is a program.  It's called with an argument, usually "binary".  If you lot hadn't used cdbs it would have been a lot simpler to see what's happening. :-P
[11:59] <Mithrandir> TMM: basically, make just traverses the dependency tree and kicks off the rules which it needs for "binary" to be fulfilled.
[11:59] <Mithrandir> TMM: get-orig-source is not part of that tree, so it's never called.
[11:59] <TMM> Mithrandir, ok... so, what is it doing there?
[12:00] <TMM> Mithrandir, just for completeness?
[12:00] <Mithrandir> TMM: it's a convenience target, so you can run debian/rules get-orig-source by hand.
[12:00] <TMM> Mithrandir, ok, thanks, that explained a lot :)
[12:01] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: can you please hit pef over the head with something appropriate next time you see him and get him to nuke that wget build-dependency and tell him why?
[12:01] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: certainly
[12:01] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: thanks.
[12:01] <TMM> coooooool!!! :) I was useful for something ;)
[12:02] <TMM> I think that build-dep on wget got me a bit confused
[12:02] <TMM> it made it seem like it used it
[12:03] <Mithrandir> yeah, that build-dep is totally bogus
[12:03] <ajmitch> at least he listed that change in the changelog, so we know who to blame
[12:04] <TMM> what if we added a convenience target to get translations from rosetta?
[12:04] <TMM> I think rosetta would be the way to go, the motus can never expect translators in all languages to submit patches to the .desktop files
[12:04] <Mithrandir> TMM: that would be fine, but those are supposed to be grabbed from langpacks, so it doesn't make that much sense.
[12:05] <Mithrandir> TMM: since translations are generally stripped from the package as part of the build process
[12:05] <TMM> aren't the translations for .desktop entries supposed to go in the .desktop file with Name[isocode
[12:05] <TMM> ] 
[12:05] <TMM> ?
[12:05] <Mithrandir> true, I was thinking for .po files.
[12:06] <TMM> I was thinking .desktop :)
[12:06] <TMM> I think it would need to be automated in some way... the .po files as well
[12:06] <Mithrandir> anyway, I was just told we don't strip universe translations, so having that convenience target there can make sense for universe packages.
[12:07] <TMM> however, I think that the target would have to be run on the ubuntu build farm, otherwise they'd never end up in the distro...
[12:07] <TMM> shall I perhaps spec something like this on the wiki?
[12:09] <Mithrandir> the buildds don't have access to the 'net.
[12:09] <TMM> that makes sense actually :)
[12:10] <TMM> how would a rosetta integration work then?
[12:10] <Mithrandir> for main, we have the langpacks
[12:10] <TMM> Mithrandir, does that work for .desktop entries as well?
[12:11] <Mithrandir> unsure
[12:11] <TMM> Mithrandir, because, all the .desktop entries in /usr/share/applications have all the translations in them
[12:11] <Mithrandir> it might be seb128-o-rama which does that.
[12:11] <TMM> :)
[12:12] <TMM> sounds cool, what is it? :)
[12:12] <ajmitch> a magical beast that uploads at an incredible rate
[12:13] <herve> now I know where dholbach learnt that!
[12:13] <TMM> ajmitch, ah....
[12:17] <TMM> Mithrandir, do you think we could use a similair system for universe?
[12:18] <Mithrandir> TMM: it would make for insanely huge langpacks
[12:18] <TMM> Mithrandir, yeah, but for .desktop files then? I think that for universe it is a good idea to just include upstream .po files
[12:18] <slomo> and it would make useless langpacks... nobody has more than maybe 10% of universe installed but would have ALL translations
[12:18] <TMM> I didn't mean that
[12:19] <TMM> I was referring to that sen128-o-rama thing
[12:19] <Mithrandir> TMM: you might want to ask on #rosetta, I'd imagine.
[12:21] <TMM> Mithrandir, ok
[12:21] <TMM> Mithrandir, there's no such thing :)
[12:22] <Mithrandir> heh, ok.
[12:22] <Mithrandir> #launchpad, then?
[12:23] <TMM> I suppose, there is SOME way of communication between the build process and rosetta. if we 'template' the .desktop files, and create a dh_ script and cdbs stuff for it, I suppose they could be generated off off the translations in rosetta
[12:23] <TMM> there'd need to be a standardised way to do that though
[12:38] <ivoks> quote " it's become something of a joke that the only things you can't avoid in life are death, taxes and Ubuntu reviews"
[12:39] <slomo> hehe
[12:42] <ajmitch> hehe
[12:43] <slomo> we should create some kind of review-counter for the next release ;)
[12:43] <ajmitch> sounds good ;)
[12:44] <ajmitch> put it on the fridge..
[12:44] <TMM> I haven't read one negative review on breezy yet!
[12:44] <TMM> I did read some semi-negative reviews of hoary :)
[12:44] <TMM> it looks like breezy is being liked a lot :)
[12:45] <ajmitch> yep
[12:45] <ajmitch> a lot of hard work went into breezy
[12:45] <TMM> it payed off
[12:45] <slomo> there were only reviews where the reviewer didn't like brown ;)
[12:45] <TMM> between RC and release my hibernation even got fixed :)
[12:46] <TMM> and I couldn't get it to work manually :P
[12:46] <TMM> great stuff
[01:17] <\sh> hmm...bob young left redhat
[01:17] <\sh> wow
[01:21] <TMM> he's going to join canonical ;)
[01:21] <TMM> j/k
[01:21] <Lathiat> really or your jok... ok. :)
[01:22] <TMM> that would have been too funny :)
[01:22] <Lathiat> according to wikipedia he left in 1999?
[01:42] <\sh> Lathiat: no...he was in the board of redhat...he left the chairman position of redhat in 99...
[01:42] <\sh> s/in/on/
[01:42] <\sh> Lathiat: szulik took over...and now bob is joining lulu.com
[01:42] <Lathiat> a9
[01:43] <Lathiat> \sh: ah ok
[01:43] <\sh> but it would be a cool idea if he would join canonical...;)
[01:44] <sivang> \sh: what has he steered in RedHat ?
[01:44] <sivang> \sh: (he can also join rpath ;-) )
[01:44] <\sh> sivang: He built up redhat :)
[01:45] <\sh> sivang: Robert 'Bob'  Young
[01:48] <sivang> eh ;-) silly me
[01:53] <pef> hello
[01:55] <herve> hey pef
[01:56] <pef> motu meeting is at 20:00 UTc, right ?
[01:56] <pef> herve: hello herv
[02:03] <Lathiat> one thing i absolutely hate about svn, when you first start it
[02:03] <Lathiat> you cant kill it for a bit
[02:44] <ajmitch> night all, I hope I get up in time for MOTU meeting ;)
[02:54] <pef> ajmitch: good night
[03:13] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:17] <siretart> hi bddebian!
[03:17] <bddebian> Heya siretart
[03:19] <koke> is the launchpad server down, or it's just me?
[03:20] <pef> koke: works for me
[03:21] <koke> hmm, konqueror says it can't connect, but firefox works
[03:21] <bddebian> apt-get remove konqueror ;-P
[03:22] <herve> --purge :-)
[03:23] <bddebian> Heya herve
[03:24] <Lathiat> haha
[03:26] <herve> yes, I'm still here!
[04:05] <Mithrandir> pef: please remove the wget build-dependency in kvpnc.  It's bogus.
[04:07] <pef> Mithrandir: I use it for get-orig-source target
[04:07] <Mithrandir> pef: it's not a build-dependency.  It's never called as part of the build-process.
[04:08] <herve> for updating the package to a new upstream release, right?
[04:08] <Mithrandir> yes, and that's not done by the buildds as part of the build process.
[04:09] <pef> no
[04:09] <pef> to clean the dirty upstream package
[04:09] <pef> home made debian layout, etc
[04:09] <Mithrandir> it's still not called by the build process
[04:11] <pef> Mithrandir: so everything not needed by buildds should not be a Build-Depends ?
[04:12] <siretart> pef: yes. In fact Build-Depends is for the buildds
[04:12] <Mithrandir> pef: correct.
[04:13] <pef> ok, should I correct this now, or wait for new upstream release, or bug fix to do this minor change to the package ?
[04:13] <Mithrandir> it's not a hurry, just fix it with your next upload.
[04:14] <pef> Mithrandir: added to my todolist, thanks for the info
[04:14] <Mithrandir> or if you're not doing a new upload in a long time, just upload a new revision when dapper opens or so.
[04:14] <Mithrandir> it's mainly a cosmetic issue
[04:15] <herve> I too like my (build-)depends to be as small as needed
[04:19] <herve> ok I read the tutorial, now I dream of bzr :-)
[04:19] <Nafallo> herve: :-)
[04:20] <herve> it seems like it does more features with less commands
[04:46] <\sh> http://www.ogmaciel.com/?p=200
[04:54] <herve> woohoo! trac+bzr
[04:55] <Lathiat> heh
[04:55] <tseng> herve: REALLY?
[04:55] <tseng> i just started using trac with svn
[04:55] <tseng> it rocks
[04:55] <Lathiat> yeh?
[04:55] <herve> I lost the link
[04:56] <Lathiat> whats it good at
[04:56] <herve> I found it on the bzr wiki
[04:56] <tseng> Lathiat: it has a simple wiki, bugtracker, and viewsvn all in one
[04:56] <herve> ha
[04:56] <herve> http://artiemestieri.tn.it/~lele/projects/trac+darcs
[04:56] <Lathiat> tseng: ah cool
[04:56] <tseng> Lathiat: its good for managing medium sized projects
[04:56] <tseng> too small for standalone wiki/bugzilla
[04:56] <tseng> too big to have nothing
[04:57] <herve> http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/wiki/VersioningSystemBackend
[04:57] <tseng> the darcs backend works for bzr?
[04:57] <herve> wohoo! my day is over
[04:57] <herve> see you later
[04:57] <tseng> erm, bye
[05:06] <Nafallo> tseng: no, for trac. bzr also works as backend for trac :-).
[05:08] <tseng> hm
[05:08] <tseng> ajmitch: so is there a good reason i should use bzr over svn?
[05:08] <tseng> ajmitch: i dont need any local control/branching in this case
[05:08] <tseng> hm maybe i do
[05:15] <tseng> looks like i have 14k lines of code now
[05:17] <siretart> trac+bzr?!
[05:19] <Nafallo> siretart: according to some page I found on the bzr wiki, yes :-)
[05:19] <siretart> w00t. that could be useful for revu2 ;)
[05:21] <Nafallo> indeed :-)
[05:21] <Nafallo> tailor seems promissing also ;-)
[05:30] <tseng> i wonder if j^ will give us new NM love
[06:17] <spayne> hi di hi
[06:18] <tseng> uh
[06:19] <spayne> hi tseng
[06:19] <spayne> glad you are happy to see me :)
[06:23] <spayne> tseng: what have i done now?
[06:24] <tseng> made silly noises in at least 3 channels simultaneously
[06:25] <spayne> tseng: silly noises?
[06:25] <spayne> just a vareity of greetings
[06:25] <tseng> sigh
[06:26] <spayne> i could comment that is a silly noise :)
[06:26] <bddebian> Heya spayne
[06:26] <spayne> hey bddebian
[06:26] <spayne> how's it going?
[06:26] <bddebian> Poorly, you?
[06:26] <spayne> not too bad, what's up?
[06:27] <bddebian> Just RL job sucks ass :-(
[06:27] <Lathiat> quit, and sit in town with a big sign and dredded clothes
[06:27] <Lathiat> Ubuntu MOTU
[06:27] <Lathiat> Please give generously!
[06:27] <Lathiat> and a hat for all the 5 cent pieces
[06:27] <Lathiat> and then see what your landlord says when you pay yoru rent in a bucket of 5 cent pieces
[06:28] <dholbach> Lathiat: you're an incredibly good carreer advisor
[06:29] <Lathiat> i was thinking of taking it up as a career
[06:38] <bddebian> Lathiat: :-)
[06:39] <bddebian> Lathiat: Somehow my wife and kids probably wouldn't enjoy living on the street with me and my laptop. ;-P
[06:41] <Lathiat> heh
[06:41] <crimsun> put them in a big Ubuntu box
[06:41] <crimsun> they won't mind!
[06:41] <Lathiat> haha
[06:42] <ogra> probably jdub has a spare box from a fridge for you to live in :)
[06:43] <bddebian> Heh
[06:43] <spayne> NEWS JUST IN: Fridge Mainia has hit Ubuntu Land!
[07:10] <LaserJock> hi all
[07:25] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[07:25] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[07:26] <LaserJock> how's it going?
[07:26] <LaserJock> karma up to 5000 yet? ;-)
[07:28] <bddebian> Shiite, not even close.  RL work is kicking my arse :'-(
[07:28] <LaserJock> so there is going to be karma for uploads right?
[07:29] <LaserJock> RL?
[07:30] <Nafallo> reallife
[07:30] <LaserJock> Nafallo: thanks
[07:50] <\sh> re
[07:51] <bddebian> Heya \sh
[07:52] <bddebian> \sh doesn't love me anymore.. :'-(   :-)
[07:52] <\sh> hey bddebian
[07:52] <LaserJock> we all love you bddebian! *cough* ya right
[07:54] <LaserJock> \sh: me too, I wonder if it could be a post-Breezy cold ;-)
[07:55] <\sh> LaserJock: well..the weather changed here a lot since the last weekend :(
[07:56] <LaserJock> \sh: well I always get colds when I get stressed. Like finals, oral comprehensives, etc.
[07:57] <chris_> \sh: time to look on klibido? :|
[07:59] <bddebian> \sh: I know that feeling :-(
[07:59] <bddebian> LaserJock: Thanks buddy :-)
[08:00] <\sh> chris_: sorry no...I had too much of stress at office
[08:01] <chris_> \sh: no problem.. the pr0n i can download with broken menues, too :PPP
[08:01] <LaserJock> bddebian: I heard that you will be able to get karma for uploads. Is that true?
[08:03] <\sh> btw...benc will attend motu meeting today....because of the question about kernels in universe
[08:04] <siretart> puh. finally at home
[08:04] <siretart> these jtag server are really scary :/
[08:05] <ivoks> \sh: we shouldn't provide kernels in universe
[08:05] <ivoks> maybe source, but not images...
[08:06] <ogra> ivoks, we have to cover certain cases where you need to patch the kernel
[08:06] <\sh> ivoks: the issue was raised...and I'm totally against it...that's why we will discuss the need and if we should at all
[08:07] <ivoks> ogra: ?
[08:07] <slomo_> ogra: for example?
[08:07] <ivoks> ogra: kernel source is in main
[08:07] <ivoks> we can provide patches, that's ok
[08:07] <ivoks> but not image...
[08:07] <ivoks> imho
[08:08] <ogra> there were several attempts of mucicians that tried to form a musician team on ubuntu...
[08:08] <ivoks> great
[08:08] <ivoks> i don't see why we need to provide kernel for that...
[08:08] <ogra> they struggled every time because its not possible without some low latency patches that need to go in the kernel
[08:09] <\sh> ogra: patches != complete other kernel sources
[08:09] <ivoks> eh, we should provide that patch
[08:09] <ogra> you cant use an unpatched kernel for several things there
[08:09] <Loiosh> Oh yeah, the realtime music stuff.
[08:09] <ivoks> ogra: i understand that...
[08:09] <ivoks> ogra: but we should provide that patch, only that patch
[08:09] <ogra> the offer fabbione and mdz made back then was to have a kernel image with the patches in universe...
[08:09] <ivoks> ogra: test it with main's source and put a wiki how to compile your own kernel
[08:10] <ogra> nope, we shouldnt... either we provide the kernel package or we dont, but we shouldnt force musicians to be hackers ;)
[08:10] <ivoks> ogra: that's not hacking
[08:10] <ivoks> there are easy to use tools
[08:10] <ogra> its handling source code using compilers etc
[08:11] <ivoks> ogra: it's make-kpkg and leaving it to do everything alone
[08:11] <\sh> it's one of the same questions of "what to support in dapper" the image with modules...or the source with different options to compile
[08:11] <ogra> give them something that works or give them nothing... dont provide half working solutions that only generate a lot of support
[08:11] <ivoks> i agree
[08:11] <ogra> if we decide against kernels in universe, thats fine...
[08:11] <slomo_> ogra: will the main kernel guys maintain it?
[08:12] <ivoks> but supporting that kernel.. do we have someone with kernel skills?
[08:12] <ogra> they can then set up their own repo and have the packages there... even if sabdfl wnt be happy with that
[08:12] <ogra> slomo_, nope...
[08:12] <ogra> who says we need to support it ?
[08:12] <ivoks> lol
[08:12] <ogra> having a package that works is enough
[08:12] <ivoks> ok
[08:12] <Nafallo> meeting already started? :-)
[08:13] <ogra> universe is unsupported...
[08:13] <\sh> works as in build ok, or works as in rock solid
[08:13] <ogra> we can always use that excuse ;)
[08:13] <ivoks> ogra: what about security
[08:13] <Nafallo> ...but we want universe to be community-supported ;-)
[08:13] <ivoks> but ok, let's say we create kernel image
[08:13] <slomo_> ogra: ok, then we can do it probably... when it's only main kernel + low-latency stuff i can do some work for it
[08:13] <ivoks> we should name that package different then linux-image-...
[08:13] <ogra> \sh, works as in doesnt lock your box and doesnt wipe your HD (at least not without saying so before ;) )
[08:14] <ivoks> slomo_: i would be interested in that, too
[08:14] <\sh> ogra: so..what about a "totally-lack-of-support-from-everywhere-but-motu-build" repos?
[08:14] <ogra> linux-image-low-latency-audio-enhanced-but-we-dont-support-it_2.6.12-37-ubuntu109.deb :)
[08:14] <slomo_> ogra: but i don't want to maintain a too big patchset from the main kernel... so only low-latency and maybe other really small stuff
[08:15] <ivoks> no :)
[08:15] <ivoks> universe-linux-image
[08:15] <ogra> slomo_, i didnt say *we* should do it
[08:15] <\sh> ogra: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper black-hole
[08:15] <slomo_> \sh: good idea ;)
[08:15] <siretart> hrhr
[08:15] <ogra> i'm just not opposing the idea if someone comes and wants such a package in universe... and i think we should be open for it
[08:16] <ivoks> ok
[08:16] <slomo_> ogra: ok, but i would help with it when it's only low-latency ;) maybe with ivoks help ;)
[08:16] <ogra> exactly...
[08:16] <siretart> didn't have enough time to build and test it for breezy, though
[08:16] <ogra> and probably someone wants a XEN kernel in universe
[08:16] <ivoks> ok
[08:16] <slomo_> siretart: hm, but that would be a second kernel image in universe
[08:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: Xen might very well go into main.
[08:16] <ivoks> you convinced me
[08:16] <ogra> Mithrandir, *might*
[08:16] <slomo_> ogra: yes, i know of at least 3 people who want XEN kernels ;)
[08:16] <ivoks> it should go in main :/
[08:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: it was a medium/low-priorite release goal for breezy.
[08:16] <siretart> slomo_: which is the first one?
[08:17] <ogra> Mithrandir, i know....
[08:17] <ivoks> slomo_: count me in
[08:17] <slomo_> siretart: low-latency audio stuff
[08:17] <siretart> slomo_: *patsch*.. sure..
[08:17] <ogra> Mithrandir, but i also know how short pre UVF time is for dapper :)
[08:17] <\sh> ogra: where is the time table for dapper? ,-)
[08:18] <ogra> there is none yet... but it looks like we have ~ 1 month less than in breezy...
[08:18] <ivoks> yup...
[08:19] <\sh> bah...these tortellinis were salty
[08:19] <ivoks> yay! we got 3th mobile network :)
[08:20] <ivoks> prices are going down 60% :)
[08:21] <eruin> ivoks, mobile network or mobile operator?
[08:21] <eruin> we have a gazillion operators but only two networks, so prices suck. :O
[08:21] <slomo_> siretart: will sistpoty be online later? i want to ask him if we want to found a MOTUStrangeLanguages team or something similar ;) he has done good work with the haskell stuff and some scheme stuff so maybe this would be of interest for him
[08:21] <ivoks> eruin: both...
[08:21] <ivoks> eruin: t-com, vip (a1) and tele2
[08:22] <eruin> 0.1/min is insane
[08:22] <ivoks> i hate t-com
[08:22] <ivoks> L?
[08:22] <eruin> pounds
[08:22] <eruin> I don't know the dollar rate anymore... it's in freefall
[08:22] <ivoks> here tele2 offers 0.05euros/min
[08:22] <eruin> gah. you bastards
[08:23] <ivoks> :>
[08:23] <ivoks> vip offers 0.15euros/min
[08:23] <ivoks> and t-com arround 0.14e/min
[08:23] <ivoks> so, you can see how we all love tele2 :)
[08:24] <eruin> hehe
[08:24] <eruin> watch out
[08:24] <eruin> it might just be a trick to get everybody to switch
[08:24] <eruin> tele2 did that here
[08:24] <ivoks> they guarantee this prices forever
[08:24] <ivoks> eruin: really? what did they do?
[08:25] <eruin> they told us their prices would stay at the insanely low introduction price, then upped them due to "competing price levels and financial difficulty at their current price"
[08:25] <ivoks> hehe classic
[08:26] <eruin> plus, they have annoying salespeople everywhere in the streets ;)
[08:26] <ivoks> lol sounds like 24sata newspaper here :)
[08:26] <ivoks> these guys are everywhere
[08:26] <ivoks> even on ski tracks :)
[08:29] <eruin> annoying isn't it ;p
[08:29] <eruin> I've also got two amnesty-people on both ends of my street
[08:29] <ivoks> yup
[08:29] <eruin> they ask me to join/pay every day
[08:29] <ivoks> :>
[08:29] <eruin> trying to make me feel like a bastard when I decline
[08:29] <eruin> rah.
[08:49] <siretart> slomo_: hrhr. sounds great :)
[08:50] <siretart> slomo_: and no sorry, I haven't heard from him since some time
[08:52] <slomo_> siretart: ok ;) i'll wait for him :P
[08:53] <slomo_> siretart: hmm, and i hate math exercises where one has to prove something and it isn't clear what can be used to prove it and what not ;)
[08:54] <siretart> slomo_: ooh. unclear preconditions.. thats annoying ;)
[08:56] <slomo_> siretart: well, i know at least one possible way to prove every single exercise... but the problem is that it's the first paper with exercises and we didn't do anything yet :/ hm, let's wait until next wednesday... i have time until then
[08:57] <siretart> slomo_: thats not too unusual. normaly the prof should say something to that
[08:58] <slomo_> siretart: normally... but this guy is strange. he talks too slow and talks hours about trivial things... well, let's see :)
[09:04] <ivoks> see you at 22:00UTC
[09:04] <ivoks> bye
[09:06] <bddebian3> What's at 22:00 this time?
[09:07] <slomo_> siretart: but can you act for me in the meeting? i'm so tired and must be in the train tomorrow at 6:30 :( just tell them that i would help with some universe kernel stuff if at least someone else works with me... i don't have anything useful to say for the other topics except that i've already started doing merges (mono stuff) and that we really have to get some kind of stricter UVF for dapper but maybe a few weeks after the main-UVF to r
[09:07] <slomo_> espond to any changes in main
[09:07] <slomo_> bddebian3: motu meeting... 20:00 UTC, 22:00 CEST ;)
[09:07] <bddebian3> :-)
[09:08] <siretart> slomo_: ok, will do
[09:08] <siretart> slomo_: what policy would you suggest for kernel images in dapper/universe?
[09:10] <slomo_> siretart: no support and big warning message when installing them ;) and only kernel images for stuff that can't be integrated in the main kernel because it changes general behaviour like the XEN or low-latency or vserver stuff
[09:11] <siretart> okay
[09:11] <slomo_> and changes something that isn't useful or even bad for the masses and only useful in special cases ;)
[09:12] <siretart> would that be then a fork of the linux-source sourcepackage? or 'just' some additional patches to the linux-source?
[09:12] <crimsun> I still think that's a very bad idea
[09:12] <crimsun> we can't possibly support those kernels
[09:13] <slomo_> siretart: linux-source + patches... and must be uptodate with the main kernel for release...
[09:14] <siretart> slomo_: this means extra merging work
[09:14] <siretart> slomo_: I think a close collaboration with ubuntu-kernel would be a requirement, then
[09:14] <siretart> crimsun: true.
[09:15] <siretart> crimsun: the thing is: I really want to have some linux-vserver kernels. I know there are some linux-lowlatency folks who definitly need those kernels
[09:15] <slomo_> siretart: yes... that would be good anyway ;)
[09:15] <crimsun> I'm willing to help with patches, but full-blown kernels? That's a nightmare.
[09:15] <siretart> crimsun: for me I see 2 possibilities: uploading these kernel-images to universe, or keep them in some 'private' repositories, separated from universe
[09:16] <\sh> we won't get any support from the kernel guys
[09:16] <slomo_> \sh: why?
[09:16] <siretart> slomo_: they are already nearly overloaded, I think
[09:16] <\sh> but this is for the meeting..benc will attend and you can read quotes of fabbione on irclogs in ubuntu-kernel
[09:16] <crimsun> way past overloaded
[09:16] <Lathiat> slomo_: because they dont have time to chase after our kernels, tey have enough to worry about
[09:16] <Lathiat> eh repeat++
[09:17] <siretart> \sh: yes. I understand this. But beeing informed about problems/patches in the 'main' kernel would be really helpful with this task ;)
[09:17] <slomo_> siretart: hmm... i'll get a coffee and try to stay awake then ;)
[09:18] <siretart> slomo_: if you need to get up this early.. uuuh
[09:18] <crimsun> the only thing I can conceivably say would be anything close to manageable would be something akin to Debian's old kernel-patch-foo stuff
[09:18] <\sh> siretart: the problems of the "main" kernel are known from bugzilla/malone...but this is not the issue...the issue is, that we play with "unknown" patches etc. and we have to bugfix them
[09:18] <slomo_> siretart: i have 5 free hours tomorrow... i can sleep ;)
[09:19] <siretart> \sh: yepp. I see the problem
[09:19] <\sh> siretart: or do you have the possibilty to test something, e.g. without having the hardware
[09:20] <\sh> siretart: if you say, that you build a whatever support in main-kernel then you are responsible...but if community user X tells us, he needs this and that for that and this, so he should do it, but we shouldn't do it
[09:20] <\sh> siretart: because we don't know
[09:21] <crimsun> (and not only do you take on the main kernel's bug matrix but you exponentially increase it with each additional 'universe' patch)
[09:21] <siretart> \sh: this would mean private repositories then. okay, I can live with that
[09:22] <\sh> what we can provide are packages with patches for module-assistent but I'm not willing to maintain patchlevels I can't test
[09:22] <crimsun> right, I can see patches being a possibility
[09:22] <crimsun> at least then the burden is still on the user
[09:22] <\sh> siretart: as I wrote in one of the mails about the kernel support thread...sysadmins will roll out their own compiled kernels anyways..
[09:23] <\sh> siretart: when and if they need special drivers e.g. for EMC
[09:23] <siretart> module-assistant is only applicable to loadable kernel modules, not to stuff like audio-lowlatency or linux-vserser
[09:23] <\sh> siretart: which is quite unsupported..either by emc (only redhat has EMC supported drivers in it, and only in the delivered kernel)
[09:23] <crimsun> siretart: we still have the kernel-patch-foo (well, I think linux-patch-foo will be better)
[09:23] <siretart> crimsun: perhaps we can provide some infrastructure for faciliating baking kernels. and document that
[09:24] <\sh> siretart: but e.g. I know EMC drivers are working nicely in stock woody kernels ;)
[09:24] <crimsun> siretart: that sounds like a plan
[09:24] <siretart> so we would 'only' need to support the infrastructure ;)
[09:25] <\sh> siretart: this is at least a good idea...:)
[09:25] <siretart> as far as I understood, the linux-images are not built by kernel-package, but normal 'dpkg-buildpackage', right?
[09:25] <siretart> but anyway, thats details. need to go back speccing revu2..
[09:25] <\sh> hehe
[09:25] <\sh> hurry up...35 mins left ;)
[09:26] <slomo_> siretart: hm, thought about it again... better to go sleeping now ;) but whatever you decide, i would help with the kernel stuff...
[09:26] <slomo_> so gn8 everybody :)
[09:27] <crimsun> cya slomo_
[09:27] <\sh> slomo_: sleep well :)
[09:27] <siretart> slomo_: great! :) - sleep well, cu tomorrow
[09:40] <ajmitch> morning all
[09:42] <dholbach> hi andrew
[09:44] <Lathiat> i think it might be easy to just copy data about in an array
[09:44] <siretart> hey ajmitch! :)
[09:44] <ajmitch> Lathiat: oh good, so I don't have to ring you ;)
[09:44] <Lathiat> :)
[09:44] <Lathiat> wouldnt have worked anyway
[09:44] <Lathiat> my phones dead to the world
[09:44] <ajmitch> hi siretart
[09:44] <ajmitch> haha
[09:44] <Lathiat> charger doesn't charge :(
[09:44] <Lathiat> i was gonna take it in for service today
[09:44] <Lathiat> but at this rate it'l be friday :)
[09:44] <ajmitch> ~4 hours sleep is not enough
[09:45] <dholbach> ajmitch: who wrote the UbuntuBugDay page with you last time?
[09:45] <dholbach> ajmitch: robitaille?
[09:45] <ajmitch> yep
[09:46] <dholbach> hrm, i added some "tasks" for it, but i have no idea, how to put the text above it in such a nice way
[09:47] <ajmitch> and badger colony..?
[09:47] <ajmitch> you'd have to change the references to making breezy good
[09:47] <ajmitch> "this coming Thursday"...
[09:47] <ajmitch> " you all on Saturday."...
[09:47] <ajmitch> :D
[09:49] <Lathiat> should include malone tasks too
[09:52] <dholbach> it's a wiki... please help out :)
[09:52] <siretart> what is a group of ducks (drakes) called? colonys?
[09:53] <ajmitch> tasty ;)
[09:54] <bddebian3> gaggle isn't it?  Or is that just geese?
[09:54] <ajmitch> gaggle of geese
[09:54] <ajmitch> duck:  brace, flock, gaggle, paddling, team, raft, badling, bunch, waddling
[09:55] <\sh> duck: food
[09:55] <ajmitch> :)
[09:55] <ajmitch> http://dictionary.reference.com/writing/styleguide/animal.html
[09:55] <LaserJock> a team of ducks? doesn't sound quite right
[09:56] <LaserJock> unless its a sports team maybe
[09:56] <siretart> bunch of drakes doesn't sound too bad to me, but I'm not a native speaker either..
[09:58] <sivang> guys, is there any fixing / packaging work to do before the archive opens?
[09:59] <dholbach> motu meeting - who's missing?
[09:59] <ajmitch> well we're expecting the archive to be open any minute now ;)
[09:59] <siretart> sivang: what do you mean? do you have something specific in mind?
[09:59] <bddebian3> \sh: ;-)
[10:00] <sivang> siretart: no, I was hoping for some packaging practice :)
[10:00] <siretart> ah. I see :)
[10:00] <sivang> actually, I see some bugs on malonoe that wouldn't mind hetting fixed probably
[10:00] <Nafallo> bddebian3: hmm, could you give us back the first incarnation please? :-)
[10:01] <bddebian3> Oh, hehe, sure
[10:01] <bddebian> Better? :-)
[10:02] <siretart> sivang: do you have some overview over the specs for UBZ?
[10:02] <sivang> siretart: overview? over your specs?
[10:02] <siretart> sistpoty: congratulations to motuness, dude!
[10:02] <sistpoty> hi folks
[10:02] <Nafallo> :-)
[10:02] <sivang> ah right, yay for siretart
[10:02] <sivang> err,
[10:02] <sistpoty> thx siretart :)
[10:02] <sivang> sistpoty:
[10:02] <sivang> but for siretart as well :)
[10:02] <siretart> sivang: My question is if you know about someone interested in NetworkAuthentication
[10:03] <siretart> sivang: ;)
[10:03] <sistpoty> :)
[10:03] <sivang> siretart: are we assigning people to specs already?
[10:04] <siretart> sivang: no, but I wanted to make sure that we don't miss that at UBZ, it is quite important to me
[10:04] <siretart> sivang: But I don't think I'm competent enough to implement/spec that completly on my own.
[10:04] <siretart> so I look for people, I can work with about that
[10:04] <sivang> siretart: neither do I, although it's interesting
[10:04] <siretart> okay
[10:11] <Kyynara> could someone tell my why this doesnt work? http://pastebin.com/398973
[10:12] <TiMiDo> Kyynara there's an error on the makefile
[10:12] <TiMiDo> debugi386/q2glx/ui_addressbook.o(.text+0x78): In function `AddressBook_MenuKey':ui/ui_addressbook.c:46: undefined reference to `Default_MenuKey'
[10:12] <TiMiDo> debugi386/q2glx/ui_addressbook.o(.text+0x8c): In function `AddressBook_MenuDraw':
[10:17] <ajmitch> ogra: what are my chances of getting a data-munching bug fixed in breezy-updates?
[10:18] <TiMiDo> ajmitch look at the ubuntu webpage
[10:18] <TiMiDo> check the release
[10:18] <ajmitch> TiMiDo: I think I know what I mean :)
[10:18] <TiMiDo> ok ;P
[10:18] <TiMiDo> then why did you ask +)
[10:18] <ajmitch> because getting things into -updates requires stringent manual approval
[10:19] <ajmitch> and I was asking about my chances
[10:19] <marcin_ant> hi all
[10:19] <TiMiDo> hi marcin_ant
[10:19] <marcin_ant> I got pretty strange and propably stupid question but I really need to know it
[10:19] <TiMiDo> ok ask
[10:20] <marcin_ant> question is - is this possible to build two totally different packages from single source?
[10:20] <TiMiDo> yea
[10:20] <marcin_ant> and with single rules and other debian/ files?
[10:20] <ajmitch> yes
[10:20] <koke> hi all
[10:20] <ajmitch> hi koke
[10:20] <TiMiDo> hi koke
[10:20] <ajmitch> MOTU meeting on in #ubuntu-meeting, btw
[10:20] <marcin_ant> and by totally different I mean with different names and different _version_
[10:20] <TiMiDo> when is the meeting?
[10:20] <bddebian> Right now :-)
[10:21] <TiMiDo> oh ok nice
[10:21] <koke> ajmitch: thanks :)
[10:21] <koke> I need the power of iCal for my life :)
[10:21] <marcin_ant> I know that I can add more than one Package: tag to control
[10:21] <marcin_ant> but I don't know how to add info about version
[10:22] <ajmitch> marcin_ant: right, why would you want separate versions?
[10:22] <koke> marcin_ant: if I uderstand you, version info is taken from last entry in debian/changelog
[10:22] <ajmitch> which means that 1 source, 1 version
[10:23] <marcin_ant> ajmitch: well because this software is so weird that it keeps two (well more than two) applicatinos in single source package
[10:23] <marcin_ant> ajmitch: it's emacs - and I would like to create separate package for gnus
[10:24] <marcin_ant> ajmitch: and emacs is currently 22.x.xx version while gnus is 5.xx
[10:26] <marcin_ant> so there is no way (in single *.orig tree) to buld two debs with different versions?
[10:26] <ajmitch> nope, not that I'm aware of
[10:32] <Lathiat> 4:31 < CIA-9> * avahi-discover-standalone is now working on osx
[10:32] <Lathiat> watch out apple
[10:32] <Lathiat> avahi is coming to get yoooooooooooooo
[10:33] <TiMiDo> ok I'm here
[10:34] <Lathiat> TiMiDo: meeting isnt finished yet :)
[10:34] <TiMiDo> oh i see
[10:37] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/avahi-discover-macosx.jpg
[10:37] <Lathiat> pietrus: heh
[11:04] <Lathiat> are .desktop files fair game to go upstream to debian?
[11:04] <Lathiat> do debian care?
[11:04] <Lathiat> (for the merging guide)
[11:05] <ajmitch> sivang: I've had a merge script since the start of breezy
[11:05] <dholbach> TiMiDo: this is the right place to do something :)
[11:05] <sivang> ajmitch: interesting, is it published somewhere online? (curious for looking at the code)
[11:05] <TiMiDo> dholbach yeah
[11:06] <dholbach> because we're in a meeting :)
[11:06] <ivoks> ok, i missed most of the meeting
[11:07] <ajmitch> sivang: well I'm going to rewrite it so that it doesn't royally suck ;)
[11:07] <ivoks> are we going to roll out our image?
[11:07] <ajmitch> image?
[11:07] <ajmitch> face of motu? ;)
[11:07] <sistpoty> ajmitch: in python or s.th. different?
[11:07] <ivoks> kernel image
[11:07] <ajmitch> sistpoty: currently in python
[11:07] <ivoks> and what's with dpatch?
[11:08] <ivoks> i've been using it a lot for every small change
[11:08] <sistpoty> ajmitch: cool... maybe we can reuse code for revu2 then (we plan to create debdiffs to debian and ubuntu sp's) :)
[11:08] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I've already got stuff on tiber :)
[11:08] <sistpoty> ajmitch++ :)
[11:08] <ajmitch> and I'm getting more skilled in patch-fu
[11:09] <ajmitch> I feel like going wild with bzr on tiber
[11:09] <sistpoty> sounds cool... sadly enough I'm not really familliar with bzr yet (apart from "simple commits")
[11:11] <ivoks> ok... so what's the conclusion on topic 1?
[11:11] <ajmitch> ivoks: no kernel images in universe
[11:11] <ivoks> ok
[11:11] <ivoks> and #2? :)
[11:12] <ajmitch> try not to introduce dpatch usage
[11:12] <ajmitch> if it's there, use it
[11:12] <ivoks> aha... ok
[11:12] <ivoks> if not?
[11:13] <ajmitch> suggestion was to stick patches in debian/ubuntu-patches, but apply them *before* build time
[11:13] <ivoks> and small change in source needed?
[11:13] <ivoks> i see... ok
[11:13] <ivoks> so, messing with patch inside rules, ok
[11:13] <ajmitch> no
[11:14] <ajmitch> no
[11:14] <ajmitch> no
[11:14] <ivoks> ?
[11:14] <ajmitch> I said not at build time :)
[11:14] <ajmitch> so apply patch manually, and keep a record of it in that dir ;)
[11:14] <ivoks> huh?!
[11:14] <ivoks> before build
[11:14] <ivoks> manually?!
[11:14] <ivoks> wtf?
[11:15] <ajmitch> yes
[11:15] <ajmitch> do you see that as a problem?
[11:15] <ivoks> maybe i don't understand it well
[11:16] <ivoks> patch and then dpkg-buildpackage?
[11:16] <ajmitch> yes
[11:16] <ajmitch> to keep relations with debian nice & cordial :)
[11:16] <ivoks> don't you think that will slow us down?
[11:16] <ajmitch> there has been some rage from DDs about our indiscriminate usage of dpatch
[11:16] <ivoks> i understand that
[11:16] <ajmitch> not particularly
[11:17] <ivoks> and i agree with that rage
[11:17] <ajmitch> I do this already myself, except with bzr
[11:17] <ajmitch> since bzr is *way* better for me to track my patches to my debian packages
[11:17] <ivoks> i'm just installing bzr :/
[11:17] <ivoks> well, ok
[11:17] <ivoks> i was late to meeting
[11:18] <ivoks> now it's too late to talk about this...
[11:18] <ajmitch> well this was based on input from kamion & seb128
[11:18] <ajmitch> not just a MOTU decision :)
[11:18] <ivoks> ok
[11:19] <ivoks> is there bzr tutorial? :)
[11:19] <ivoks> except man pages
[11:20] <ajmitch> yes
[11:20] <ajmitch> see the webpage
[11:20] <ajmitch> http://bazaar.canonical.com/BzrDocumentation
[11:20] <ivoks> thanks
[11:32] <siretart> sistpoty: can you please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU2Spec
[11:32] <siretart> sistpoty: if you see something which I forgot, please add it
[11:35] <ajmitch> ah, rock on
[11:36] <koke> damn! I've lost the ability to follow a meeting on IRC :/
[11:36] <ajmitch> rewrite it all using zope! :D
[11:36] <Lathiat> haha
[11:36] <Loiosh> Yeah
[11:36] <Lathiat> hahaha
[11:36] <Loiosh> It's pretty hard.
[11:36] <Lathiat> rails!
[11:36] <koke> It's being really hard todat
[11:36] <Lathiat> ruby! ruby!
[11:36] <koke> today
[11:37] <Loiosh> I've had to scroll back repeatedly
[11:37] <koke> Lathiat: so you are another ruby fan?
[11:37] <Lathiat> koke: yep
[11:37] <koke> great!
[11:37] <koke> any ideas on rubygems packaging
[11:37] <Lathiat> koke: im a member of moturuby
[11:37] <Lathiat> koke: hrm, no
[11:37] <koke> or gem2deb? :)
[11:37] <Lathiat> koke: we should look at that
[11:37] <Lathiat> something like that python -> debian thing
[11:38] <koke> I'm not sure what is better:
[11:38] <koke> - a rubygems package which installs gems in /usr/local/gems
[11:39] <Lathiat> koke: ideally we could make the gem install as a proper ruby library
[11:39] <Lathiat> koke: since /usr/local shouldnt be touched by packages for a start
[11:39] <koke> - or a gem2deb magic script who transforms foo_generator in libfoo-generator-gem-ruby
[11:40] <koke> Lathiat: debian-policy 9.1.2: However, the package may create empty directories below /usr/local so that the system administrator knows where to place site-specific files. These directories should be removed on package removal if they are empty.
[11:40] <koke> :)
[11:40] <Lathiat> koke: right
[11:41] <Lathiat> i'll have to look at the specifics of gems
[11:41] <koke> are you going to UBZ?
[11:41] <Lathiat> koke: itd also be nice to like
[11:41] <Lathiat> koke: package rubygems :)
[11:41] <Lathiat> koke: unfortunately not :(
[11:41] <koke> or someone from the ruby team?
[11:41] <Lathiat> its very expensive to get there from australia
[11:41] <Lathiat> koke: not sure
[11:41] <koke> discussing alone is lot more boring ;)
[11:42] <sivang> let's do the meeting over a game of Mao, ogra ?
[11:42] <sivang> :)
[11:43] <koke> that crazy game
[11:43] <koke> I escaped from it last time :)
[11:43] <sivang> koke: lucky for you :)
[11:49] <ogra> sivang, will get hard if you want to keep IRC on track :)
[11:49] <siretart> puh. /me has just submitted 5 specs for ubz.. quite massive for my taste
[11:49] <siretart> sistpoty: did you see the Revu2Spec wiki?
[11:49] <sistpoty> siretart: not yet
[11:49] <sivang> ogra: right :)
[11:49] <siretart> okay
[11:50] <sivang> siretart: which reminds me, I need to get going with my overview spec and do the other pieces..
[11:50] <sivang> siretart: (SetupSnapshots)
[11:51] <siretart> sivang: yeah, we should talk about in how much detail this overlaps with NonpersistantUsers
[11:51] <siretart> I really think that we could share code
[11:51] <siretart> and energy
[11:51] <ogra> siretart, i dont see them on the BOF wikipage
[11:52] <siretart> ogra: NonpersistantUsers should be there
[11:52] <ogra> siretart, yes, that a old one... i thought you added BOPF proposals
[11:52] <sivang> siretart: I'm interested :)
[11:53] <siretart> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications said specs should be tracked via malone rather than that wiki page
[11:53] <ogra> this BOF list is way to long already ...
[11:53] <siretart> it is in fact listed here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
[11:53] <sivang> siretart: thing is, I have no idea if anybody is actually interested in achieving this for Dapper, and I see great importance for this on the enterprise side
[11:53] <siretart> but I will add it on BOFs
[11:53] <Lathiat> you have to add specs to the wiki
[11:53] <Lathiat> with details
[11:53] <Lathiat> btu track them on launchpad
[11:54] <siretart> sivang: I need NonpersistantUsers for an Internetcafe, and I think Edubuntu will be interested in this
[11:54] <sivang> siretart: I thought at start to roll a POC version of some of the features, but then again - what happens if there is no interest on the decision makers..
[11:54] <ogra> siretart, i dont add any spec stuff before i had a BOF to work out the spec :)
[11:54] <siretart> cu sistpoty
[11:54] <sistpoty> bbl
[11:54] <sivang> siretart: see, ogra made up an interesting point
[11:55] <siretart> ogra: ah okay
[11:55] <siretart> ogra: what do you think about NonpersistantUsers? is this something for edubuntu?
[11:55] <ogra> siretart, indeed you can add the skeleton already :)
[11:55] <ogra> siretart, sure, but i doubt we'll have time to get it into dapper...
[11:56] <ogra> my edubuntu goals are already stuffed... such things will only work if i find more devs that are willing to help with additional features
[11:57] <siretart> ogra: just curious, does your edubuntu goals include some kind of authentication service?
[11:57] <ogra> my edubuntu goals are: local device support on thin clients, sound, centralized user management...
[11:58] <ogra> and all the gui tools for ltsp management that didnt make breezy... (a lot)
[11:58] <siretart> ogra: centralized user managment? can I read somewhere about this?
[11:59] <ogra> siretart, not before we had the bof... the only thing i think about currently is that it will be ldap based and probably have kerberos bits... standards...
[11:59] <ogra> go ahead guys, i need any help i can get :)
[12:00] <siretart> ogra: this sounds like a great idea. I'm really interested in getting something like this into dapper
[12:00] <ogra> oki, attend the BOF then :)
[12:00] <sivang> ogra: I'm interested to help you :) But I know nothing about Edubutu or what lies underneath
[12:00] <ogra> sivang, ubuntu lies underneath
[12:01] <sivang> ogra: sure, so everything stays apart for a different package selection?
[12:01] <ogra> call it "package addition"
[12:01] <ogra> and configuration ...
[12:01] <tseng> hi ogra
[12:01] <tseng> sivang
[12:01] <ogra> hey tseng
[12:02] <ajmitch> hello tseng