| allee | If someone is bored please comment on http://www.mpe.mpg.de/~ach/kubuntu/breezy/Pkgs.php#rsibreak pkging. | 12:21 |
|---|---|---|
| allee | 0.0.3 will contain a decent desktop file and some other fixes I've discussed with upstream (toma on #digikam) | 12:22 |
| Riddell | hello RobertKnight | 12:23 |
| RobertKnight | hi | 12:24 |
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| Riddell | allee: http://kubuntu.org/~jr/tmp/rsibreak.text | 02:10 |
| Riddell | nothing major | 02:10 |
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| allee | Thx Riddell ;) So "Thanks to Tom" ? He own some honour. | 02:12 |
| Riddell | yes, it was just that abbreviations might confuse non-native english speakers | 02:15 |
| allee | about the 'not configred' warning I already mentioned it to Tom. I'll pester him again. | 02:17 |
| allee | I'll stick with 3.6.2 The 4th .x does not affect packages and is optional according to debian-policy | 02:18 |
| spstarr_home | kmail: error while loading shared libraries: libkmime.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 02:18 |
| spstarr_home | :( | 02:18 |
| allee | Rest I'll fix. thx for the good catches! | 02:19 |
| spstarr_home | i have 109 mails i cant read cause kmail is borked in beta2 ;-( | 02:22 |
| allee | Riddell: ah, about -ubuntu in alioth. Why not? Ah, well s/ubuntu/kubuntu/ E.g. svn ls --recursive svn+ssh://ach-guest@svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-kde/kde-extras/ | grep ubuntu | 02:30 |
| allee | will find libkexif and libkipi backports (I've 3 more on disk, not commited) | 02:30 |
| allee | oh better: svn ls --recursive svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-kde/kde-extras/ | grep ubuntu | 02:32 |
| Riddell | allee: I just thought you were more of a debian guy first | 02:55 |
| allee | Riddel: servers debian, laptop/desktop kubuntu. But I plan to give the ubunts LTSP setup a try and server with cluster FS support a chance soon. | 03:00 |
| allee | Riddell: I think/feel I'm a debuntu that fights against duplicate effords in KDE pkging ;) | 03:00 |
| allee | Riddell: http://rafb.net/paste/results/1JMnQY47.html | 03:04 |
| JRe | Riddell: I have more or less fixed amarok to works with libvisual | 03:12 |
| JRe | Riddell: (and of course packaged libvisual | 03:13 |
| JRe | ) | 03:13 |
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| JRe | yippee everything fixed | 03:25 |
| JRe | http://jr.falleri.free.fr/files/kubuntu/amarok_libvisual1.jpg | 03:42 |
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| spstarr | hrm, is artsd borked right now, it segfaults with beta2/beta1 | 05:54 |
| spstarr | 1.4.91-0ubuntu1 | 05:54 |
| spstarr | #24 0xb7f75232 in Arts::SoundServerStartup_base::_fromString () from /usr/lib/libsoundserver_idl.so.1 | 06:26 |
| spstarr | #2 0xb7fa08a0 in Arts::SampleStorageEntry_base::_IID () from /usr/lib/libsoundserver_idl.so.1 | 06:26 |
| spstarr | hrm | 06:26 |
| spstarr | reverting to 1.4.3 works :) | 06:36 |
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| Tm_T | 12:07 <@drac> 6.9RC1 and 7.0RC1 released, please test | 11:13 |
| Tm_T | :o | 11:13 |
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| _Tonio_ | morning everyone | 11:40 |
| _Tonio_ | morning Tm_T ;) | 11:40 |
| Tm_T | good afternoon | 11:41 |
| _Tonio_ | Tm_T: what time is it for you ? | 11:43 |
| Tm_T | 12:52 | 11:52 |
| _Tonio_ | k | 12:01 |
| _Tonio_ | so, good afternoon, and maybe have a good lunch if it not already finished ;) | 12:02 |
| Riddell | Tm_T: x.org? | 12:05 |
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| Tm_T | Riddell: yup | 12:09 |
| Tm_T | _Tonio_: lunch... food... | 12:09 |
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| JRe | hello | 01:44 |
| JRe | \sh: I have fixed amarok to compile with libvisual | 01:45 |
| Lathiat | lol someone filed a debian bug on kompose | 02:01 |
| Lathiat | 'kompose slows down window switch' | 02:01 |
| Lathiat | _NO KIDDING_. :) | 02:02 |
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| Riddell | Lathiat: :) | 02:05 |
| _Tonio_ | Riddell: netgo with kcontrol integration would be a good replacement to knetworkconf. I tested and it works very well | 02:06 |
| Riddell | does it save to /etc/network/interfaces? | 02:12 |
| _Tonio_ | didn't check.... I don't have it here | 02:13 |
| _Tonio_ | I will tell you | 02:14 |
| _Tonio_ | Riddell: you would like to know if defining a profile as the default one to start while booting is possible right ? | 02:14 |
| Riddell | well I just want to know if it works nicely with the rest of the debian network stuff | 02:14 |
| Riddell | that's the advantage of knetworkconf | 02:15 |
| Riddell | (or would be if it wasn't buggy) | 02:15 |
| _Tonio_ | yes... I'm installing it, make a few tests and let you know | 02:15 |
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| _Tonio_ | Riddell: it works really well, but doesn't save informations in /etc/network/interfaces | 02:24 |
| _Tonio_ | I just tested | 02:26 |
| JRe | \sh: http://jr.falleri.free.fr/files/kubuntu/libvisual_changes.diff | 02:28 |
| JRe | \sh: this is the debdiff of the libvisual enabled amarok package | 02:28 |
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| \sh | JRe: please send me the url to sh@sourcecode.de thx...I'm a bit busy right now :( only just saw your ping | 03:17 |
| JRe | \sh: ok | 03:18 |
| JRe | Test needed: deb-src http://dinton.no-ip.org/kubuntu breezy main | 03:27 |
| JRe | packages amarok, libvisual and libvisual-plugins | 03:27 |
| === spstarr_work reverted to beta1 | ||
| spstarr_work | beta2 broke _bad_ | 03:32 |
| spstarr_work | artsd crashes on start up, kmail is broke | 03:32 |
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| Riddell | Setting up avahi-daemon (0.5.2-1) ... | 06:47 |
| Riddell | /var/lib/dpkg/info/avahi-daemon.postinst: line 29: dbus-send: command not found | 06:47 |
| Riddell | Lathiat: that'll be a beastie then | 06:47 |
| Lathiat | Riddell: yeh | 06:48 |
| Lathiat | Riddell: i tried to get a sync before breezy closed | 06:48 |
| Lathiat | Riddell: but it wasnt done | 06:48 |
| Lathiat | i guess elmo was too busy | 06:48 |
| Riddell | ah well | 06:48 |
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| Sime | sebas: ping | 07:32 |
| pef | bye ! | 07:38 |
| Riddell | Sime: Lathiat says he wants an avahi control module in guidance :) | 07:39 |
| Riddell | (well, I said it really, but he's more elite than me in such things) | 07:39 |
| Sime | sure, (what the hell is avahi?) | 07:41 |
| Riddell | that's the spirit :) | 07:41 |
| Riddell | it's a zeroconf daemon | 07:41 |
| Riddell | which for security has to be off by default, so there needs to be an easy way to turn it on | 07:42 |
| Riddell | and configure stuff like turning on ssh | 07:42 |
| Riddell | ssh advertising | 07:42 |
| Riddell | dunno what else | 07:42 |
| Sime | you mean configure what the daemon advertise on the LAN. | 07:42 |
| Riddell | yes | 07:43 |
| Sime | in adept, when you have a package that can be upgraded you have an upgrade button. But what if I want to uninstall the package??? | 07:57 |
| Riddell | you mean the upgrade button replaces the uninstall button? | 07:57 |
| Sime | yes | 07:57 |
| Sime | odd | 07:57 |
| Riddell | yeah, it needs some usability review | 07:58 |
| Sime | changing a button's label on the fly is a big no-no. | 08:00 |
| mornfall | right click | 08:00 |
| mornfall | it's all about the right click | 08:00 |
| mornfall | you can't possibly ever get all the actions to buttons | 08:01 |
| mornfall | something gotta go -- into context menu | 08:01 |
| Riddell | hmm, for some reason it's not intuitive to do a right click there | 08:02 |
| Sime | everything should be possible from the normal menus. | 08:02 |
| Riddell | same on the sources.list editor you have to right click to enable/disable, took me a while to find that | 08:02 |
| Sime | with the most important also on buttons. | 08:02 |
| Sime | (is there really not enough room for the most important and common actions?) | 08:02 |
| mornfall | normal menus however don't work -too- well -- way too disconnected from selection | 08:02 |
| mornfall | Sime: that would be? | 08:03 |
| mornfall | toolbar is about as crowded as it gets... maybe 1 more button -- and things need to be kicked out for more | 08:03 |
| Sime | Install, Remove, Upgrade... | 08:03 |
| mornfall | for expanded package view, again, one more button and it's full, i guess | 08:04 |
| mornfall | Sime: that's already 3 of them, about 2 being useless in 80% of situations | 08:04 |
| Riddell | I don't know if those should be buttons anyway, buttons I expect something to happen instantly, tickboxes or radios might be better | 08:04 |
| Sime | add a Package menu with the actions... | 08:04 |
| mornfall | Sime: yes, but that's even worse than context menu, usage-wise | 08:05 |
| mornfall | Sime: it can be easier to find, sure | 08:05 |
| Sime | errrr... normal people don't even know that context menus exist. It is all about the main menus. | 08:05 |
| mornfall | Sime: but it's terrible usability (select, go to menu, click action) | 08:05 |
| mornfall | *and* there's the problem of defining selection | 08:05 |
| mornfall | Sime: define normal people | 08:06 |
| mornfall | Sime: i guess most people who want to uninstall upgradable package -will- somehow deduce how to do it :) | 08:06 |
| mornfall | Sime: even now | 08:06 |
| mornfall | Sime: for the menu, sure i can add it... but it's not going to save much | 08:07 |
| Sime | people are people who don't spend more than 4 (or 10?) hours a day on computers. :) | 08:07 |
| Sime | and you already have selection for packages. | 08:07 |
| Sime | (that blue thing on the left hand side) | 08:07 |
| mornfall | what blue thing? | 08:07 |
| mornfall | selection is selection | 08:07 |
| mornfall | and is independent of expansion | 08:07 |
| mornfall | just FYI :) | 08:07 |
| Sime | I'm looking at a list of packages where one line is highlighted in blue. That is what I call a selection. | 08:08 |
| mornfall | GUI for management of thousands of items is *bound* to be complicated... the trick is to make it useful even for people who won't use more than 20% of the possibility | 08:08 |
| mornfall | Sime: okey, it's black here :-) | 08:09 |
| mornfall | Sime: and it's over whole width, not left hand side | 08:09 |
| mornfall | well, for expanded packages, anyway | 08:09 |
| mornfall | unexpanded* | 08:09 |
| Sime | left side was for expanded, yes. | 08:10 |
| === Sime does in fact like adept. It is neato. | ||
| mornfall | and i guess that the whole concept of selection is completely not intuitive :-)) | 08:10 |
| mornfall | i bet nontrivial amount of users will just confine themselves to the "logical" button (that is the one showing upgrade/install/remove depending on state) and toolbar actions | 08:11 |
| Riddell | I still say radio buttons would be bestest | 08:12 |
| Sime | I agree with Riddel. If the action occurred immediately then I would go for buttons. | 08:13 |
| jjesse | mornfall: in the docteam subversion directory there is a kynaptic manual, any thoughts about an adept manual or is there one created elsewhere we can import into Kubuntu? | 08:13 |
| mornfall | i don't know of anything | 08:13 |
| mornfall | Riddell: bestest, uh? :) | 08:13 |
| jjesse | https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kde/kynaptic/C/ is the kynaptic one | 08:14 |
| Riddell | mornfall: I'm using the language of a 5 year old for dramatic effect. if I'd done better in my english exams I would know which effect it was | 08:15 |
| mornfall | Riddell: hyperbole? ;-) | 08:15 |
| Riddell | yeah, something like that | 08:16 |
| mornfall | anyway, i don't like radiobuttons | 08:16 |
| mornfall | it would mean i need to make huge amount of them and disable some of them | 08:16 |
| mornfall | it's... evil | 08:16 |
| mornfall | there's -no space- | 08:16 |
| mornfall | also, there will be another button, and it will invariably be a button | 08:17 |
| mornfall | i could -maybe- settle on a combobox | 08:17 |
| mornfall | but it's stretching it | 08:17 |
| mornfall | a lot | 08:17 |
| Sime | replace the button with a 2x2 grid of radios | 08:18 |
| mornfall | never | 08:18 |
| Sime | is that an idea? | 08:18 |
| mornfall | the radios will never fit the space of that button | 08:18 |
| mornfall | they'll take like 3 times more | 08:18 |
| Sime | sure? there are only 4 actions | 08:19 |
| mornfall | hmm; keep, upgrade, install, remove are there now; purge and reinstall are to be added | 08:19 |
| mornfall | this does not scale | 08:19 |
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| mornfall | it also adds complexity | 08:20 |
| mornfall | (btw, i am arguing here -- if you win the argument, i submit -- it's just not easy to win an argument with me :p) | 08:20 |
| mornfall | anyway, you can try to put radios there and see for yourself :-)) | 08:21 |
| mornfall | the code isn't that hard | 08:21 |
| mornfall | it's in lister.{h,cpp} | 08:21 |
| Sime | I'll try that out right after I implement dualhead support in the X kmodule. :) | 08:23 |
| mornfall | :-)) | 08:23 |
| mornfall | see, i'll do whatever i think is best for adept =) | 08:23 |
| mornfall | like it or not | 08:23 |
| mornfall | of course, distributor has the veto power -- they can change the product to whatever they like :) | 08:23 |
| Sime | that's a long way of saying that it could take a long time before i get to it. ;) | 08:24 |
| mornfall | Riddell: get me an usability review and i'll read it :-) | 08:25 |
| === Riddell browses openusability | ||
| mornfall | you know, i'm such a terrible sceptic | 08:28 |
| mornfall | you have it hard with me :-) | 08:28 |
| Riddell | wow, openusability looks busy, I wonder if it's along queue | 08:29 |
| sebas | Sime: Pong. | 08:29 |
| Sime | hoi sebas | 08:29 |
| mornfall | long? i guess it's bigger than they can process in any sane time | 08:29 |
| sebas | Hi! | 08:29 |
| mornfall | someone has been overestimating capacity :p | 08:29 |
| mornfall | (that's the price for hype -- too many people want things from you and noone really helps) | 08:30 |
| Sime | Sebas and I are kind of waiting for some OU feedback | 08:30 |
| sebas | Still a good sign, much better than being ignored. | 08:30 |
| Sime | true | 08:30 |
| mornfall | i was more productive in the "being ignored" phases of everything, i guess | 08:31 |
| Sime | sebas: working on the dualhead stuff on Kubuntu I see that the hwdata and discover1 data file simply do not contain the hardware info that we need. | 08:31 |
| Sime | sebas: so I've added the Mandriva files to SVN. | 08:32 |
| Sime | sebas: also, what is the fate of the Power tab in displayconfig? | 08:32 |
| mornfall | eh, the "one true foo" problem :-)) | 08:32 |
| sebas | Sime: Short term: move it, it's just one widget, long term: Kill it (there has to be a powermanagement control module) | 08:33 |
| Sime | sebas: eruit slopen | 08:34 |
| sebas | I forgot what I the solution I thought out with usability-Jan was, have to wait for the report... | 08:34 |
| sebas | Yeah, but that'd mean a regression, right? | 08:34 |
| Sime | sebas: HDD spindown settings would also be good for a power module | 08:34 |
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| sebas | Sime: Yeah. | 08:39 |
| sebas | Such a module probably wouldn't be too hard to do. | 08:39 |
| sebas | Tuning these settings is pretty trivial, code-wise. | 08:39 |
| sebas | Is there a syntaxhighlighted diff, btw? | 08:41 |
| Sime | of what? | 08:41 |
| sebas | Would be great for reviewing patches. | 08:41 |
| sebas | For example svn diff producing syntax highlighted output. | 08:41 |
| Riddell | kubuntu.pastebin.com might do that | 08:43 |
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| sebas | Hm, yeah. But that's not really intuitive ... | 08:45 |
| mornfall | emacs | 08:46 |
| mornfall | (for syntax-hilighted diffs) | 08:47 |
| mornfall | or colordiff, but that does diff coloring, not the unterlying syntax | 08:47 |
| Riddell | or use kompare | 08:48 |
| Riddell | it has a nice kpart | 08:48 |
| mornfall | another possibility... it just doesn't work that great for konsole users... | 08:49 |
| mornfall | nothing's perfect, i guess | 08:49 |
| sebas | Yeah, most gui based svn tools have syntax highlighting. | 08:50 |
| sebas | (And I'm a vim user :-)) | 08:50 |
| sebas | and a hungry one... brb. | 08:51 |
| Riddell | I'm hungry too come to think of it :) | 08:53 |
| sebas | Let's eat! (And colordiff accepts diff from STDIN, which is good.) | 08:54 |
| sebas | And it even has a manpage with cute examples! | 08:56 |
| sebas | function cvsdiff () { cvs diff $@ | colordiff |less -R; } | 08:56 |
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| allee | Sime: you mentioned that would like to make keyboard setup easier. Care to explain? [ oI just started a thread on the xkb list, after fighting last night to get the infos for the MM keys together for submition to xkeybaord-config] | 10:48 |
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