[12:21] If someone is bored please comment on http://www.mpe.mpg.de/~ach/kubuntu/breezy/Pkgs.php#rsibreak pkging. [12:22] 0.0.3 will contain a decent desktop file and some other fixes I've discussed with upstream (toma on #digikam) [12:23] hello RobertKnight [12:24] hi === _Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === RobertKnight [n=robert@exten-halls-243.soton.ac.uk] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Kopete] === hunger [n=hunger@p54A63C95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:10] allee: http://kubuntu.org/~jr/tmp/rsibreak.text [02:10] nothing major === spstarr_home [n=sh0n@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:12] Thx Riddell ;) So "Thanks to Tom" ? He own some honour. [02:15] yes, it was just that abbreviations might confuse non-native english speakers [02:17] about the 'not configred' warning I already mentioned it to Tom. I'll pester him again. [02:18] I'll stick with 3.6.2 The 4th .x does not affect packages and is optional according to debian-policy [02:18] kmail: error while loading shared libraries: libkmime.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory [02:18] :( [02:19] Rest I'll fix. thx for the good catches! [02:22] i have 109 mails i cant read cause kmail is borked in beta2 ;-( [02:30] Riddell: ah, about -ubuntu in alioth. Why not? Ah, well s/ubuntu/kubuntu/ E.g. svn ls --recursive svn+ssh://ach-guest@svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-kde/kde-extras/ | grep ubuntu [02:30] will find libkexif and libkipi backports (I've 3 more on disk, not commited) [02:32] oh better: svn ls --recursive svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-kde/kde-extras/ | grep ubuntu [02:55] allee: I just thought you were more of a debian guy first [03:00] Riddel: servers debian, laptop/desktop kubuntu. But I plan to give the ubunts LTSP setup a try and server with cluster FS support a chance soon. [03:00] Riddell: I think/feel I'm a debuntu that fights against duplicate effords in KDE pkging ;) [03:04] Riddell: http://rafb.net/paste/results/1JMnQY47.html [03:12] Riddell: I have more or less fixed amarok to works with libvisual [03:13] Riddell: (and of course packaged libvisual [03:13] ) === claydoh [n=claydoh@65.99.186.103] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel [03:25] yippee everything fixed [03:42] http://jr.falleri.free.fr/files/kubuntu/amarok_libvisual1.jpg === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel === claydoh [n=claydoh@65.99.186.103] has joined #kubuntu-devel === spstarr [n=sh0n@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [05:54] hrm, is artsd borked right now, it segfaults with beta2/beta1 [05:54] 1.4.91-0ubuntu1 [06:26] #24 0xb7f75232 in Arts::SoundServerStartup_base::_fromString () from /usr/lib/libsoundserver_idl.so.1 [06:26] #2 0xb7fa08a0 in Arts::SampleStorageEntry_base::_IID () from /usr/lib/libsoundserver_idl.so.1 [06:26] hrm [06:36] reverting to 1.4.3 works :) === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel === CaiN_SA [n=cain@rrba-146-94-75.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #kubuntu-devel === cain_ [n=cain@rrba-146-94-75.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #kubuntu-devel === cain_ [n=cain@rrba-146-94-75.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel === _Tonio_ [n=tonio@cac94-5-82-229-219-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F5A46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === CaiN_SA [n=cain@rrba-146-94-75.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #kubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:13] 12:07 <@drac> 6.9RC1 and 7.0RC1 released, please test [11:13] :o === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:40] <_Tonio_> morning everyone [11:40] <_Tonio_> morning Tm_T ;) [11:41] good afternoon [11:43] <_Tonio_> Tm_T: what time is it for you ? [11:52] 12:52 [12:01] <_Tonio_> k [12:02] <_Tonio_> so, good afternoon, and maybe have a good lunch if it not already finished ;) [12:05] Tm_T: x.org? === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:09] Riddell: yup [12:09] _Tonio_: lunch... food... === kkasina [n=ken@212.165.134.38] has joined #kubuntu-devel === kkasina [n=ken@212.165.134.38] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Kopete] === JRe [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:44] hello [01:45] \sh: I have fixed amarok to compile with libvisual [02:01] lol someone filed a debian bug on kompose [02:01] 'kompose slows down window switch' [02:02] _NO KIDDING_. :) === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:05] Lathiat: :) [02:06] <_Tonio_> Riddell: netgo with kcontrol integration would be a good replacement to knetworkconf. I tested and it works very well [02:12] does it save to /etc/network/interfaces? [02:13] <_Tonio_> didn't check.... I don't have it here [02:14] <_Tonio_> I will tell you [02:14] <_Tonio_> Riddell: you would like to know if defining a profile as the default one to start while booting is possible right ? [02:14] well I just want to know if it works nicely with the rest of the debian network stuff [02:15] that's the advantage of knetworkconf [02:15] (or would be if it wasn't buggy) [02:15] <_Tonio_> yes... I'm installing it, make a few tests and let you know === _Tonio_ [n=tonio@cac94-5-82-229-219-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:24] <_Tonio_> Riddell: it works really well, but doesn't save informations in /etc/network/interfaces [02:26] <_Tonio_> I just tested [02:28] \sh: http://jr.falleri.free.fr/files/kubuntu/libvisual_changes.diff [02:28] \sh: this is the debdiff of the libvisual enabled amarok package === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #kubuntu-devel [03:17] <\sh> JRe: please send me the url to sh@sourcecode.de thx...I'm a bit busy right now :( only just saw your ping [03:18] \sh: ok [03:27] Test needed: deb-src http://dinton.no-ip.org/kubuntu breezy main [03:27] packages amarok, libvisual and libvisual-plugins === spstarr_work reverted to beta1 [03:32] beta2 broke _bad_ [03:32] artsd crashes on start up, kmail is broke === spstarr_work_ [n=spstarr@192.219.104.10] has joined #kubuntu-devel === spstarr_work_ is now known as spstarr_work === _Tonio_ [n=tonio@cac94-5-82-229-219-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel === guinsel [n=guinsel@81-203-46-54.user.ono.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel === JRee [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === JRee [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:47] Setting up avahi-daemon (0.5.2-1) ... [06:47] /var/lib/dpkg/info/avahi-daemon.postinst: line 29: dbus-send: command not found [06:47] Lathiat: that'll be a beastie then [06:48] Riddell: yeh [06:48] Riddell: i tried to get a sync before breezy closed [06:48] Riddell: but it wasnt done [06:48] i guess elmo was too busy [06:48] ah well === claydoh [n=claydoh@65.99.187.196] has joined #kubuntu-devel === JRee [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === JRee [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel [07:32] sebas: ping [07:38] bye ! [07:39] Sime: Lathiat says he wants an avahi control module in guidance :) [07:39] (well, I said it really, but he's more elite than me in such things) [07:41] sure, (what the hell is avahi?) [07:41] that's the spirit :) [07:41] it's a zeroconf daemon [07:42] which for security has to be off by default, so there needs to be an easy way to turn it on [07:42] and configure stuff like turning on ssh [07:42] ssh advertising [07:42] dunno what else [07:42] you mean configure what the daemon advertise on the LAN. [07:43] yes [07:57] in adept, when you have a package that can be upgraded you have an upgrade button. But what if I want to uninstall the package??? [07:57] you mean the upgrade button replaces the uninstall button? [07:57] yes [07:57] odd [07:58] yeah, it needs some usability review [08:00] changing a button's label on the fly is a big no-no. [08:00] right click [08:00] it's all about the right click [08:01] you can't possibly ever get all the actions to buttons [08:01] something gotta go -- into context menu [08:02] hmm, for some reason it's not intuitive to do a right click there [08:02] everything should be possible from the normal menus. [08:02] same on the sources.list editor you have to right click to enable/disable, took me a while to find that [08:02] with the most important also on buttons. [08:02] (is there really not enough room for the most important and common actions?) [08:02] normal menus however don't work -too- well -- way too disconnected from selection [08:03] Sime: that would be? [08:03] toolbar is about as crowded as it gets... maybe 1 more button -- and things need to be kicked out for more [08:03] Install, Remove, Upgrade... [08:04] for expanded package view, again, one more button and it's full, i guess [08:04] Sime: that's already 3 of them, about 2 being useless in 80% of situations [08:04] I don't know if those should be buttons anyway, buttons I expect something to happen instantly, tickboxes or radios might be better [08:04] add a Package menu with the actions... [08:05] Sime: yes, but that's even worse than context menu, usage-wise [08:05] Sime: it can be easier to find, sure [08:05] errrr... normal people don't even know that context menus exist. It is all about the main menus. [08:05] Sime: but it's terrible usability (select, go to menu, click action) [08:05] *and* there's the problem of defining selection [08:06] Sime: define normal people [08:06] Sime: i guess most people who want to uninstall upgradable package -will- somehow deduce how to do it :) [08:06] Sime: even now [08:07] Sime: for the menu, sure i can add it... but it's not going to save much [08:07] people are people who don't spend more than 4 (or 10?) hours a day on computers. :) [08:07] and you already have selection for packages. [08:07] (that blue thing on the left hand side) [08:07] what blue thing? [08:07] selection is selection [08:07] and is independent of expansion [08:07] just FYI :) [08:08] I'm looking at a list of packages where one line is highlighted in blue. That is what I call a selection. [08:08] GUI for management of thousands of items is *bound* to be complicated... the trick is to make it useful even for people who won't use more than 20% of the possibility [08:09] Sime: okey, it's black here :-) [08:09] Sime: and it's over whole width, not left hand side [08:09] well, for expanded packages, anyway [08:09] unexpanded* [08:10] left side was for expanded, yes. === Sime does in fact like adept. It is neato. [08:10] and i guess that the whole concept of selection is completely not intuitive :-)) [08:11] i bet nontrivial amount of users will just confine themselves to the "logical" button (that is the one showing upgrade/install/remove depending on state) and toolbar actions [08:12] I still say radio buttons would be bestest [08:13] I agree with Riddel. If the action occurred immediately then I would go for buttons. [08:13] mornfall: in the docteam subversion directory there is a kynaptic manual, any thoughts about an adept manual or is there one created elsewhere we can import into Kubuntu? [08:13] i don't know of anything [08:13] Riddell: bestest, uh? :) [08:14] https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kde/kynaptic/C/ is the kynaptic one [08:15] mornfall: I'm using the language of a 5 year old for dramatic effect. if I'd done better in my english exams I would know which effect it was [08:15] Riddell: hyperbole? ;-) [08:16] yeah, something like that [08:16] anyway, i don't like radiobuttons [08:16] it would mean i need to make huge amount of them and disable some of them [08:16] it's... evil [08:16] there's -no space- [08:17] also, there will be another button, and it will invariably be a button [08:17] i could -maybe- settle on a combobox [08:17] but it's stretching it [08:17] a lot [08:18] replace the button with a 2x2 grid of radios [08:18] never [08:18] is that an idea? [08:18] the radios will never fit the space of that button [08:18] they'll take like 3 times more [08:19] sure? there are only 4 actions [08:19] hmm; keep, upgrade, install, remove are there now; purge and reinstall are to be added [08:19] this does not scale === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:20] it also adds complexity [08:20] (btw, i am arguing here -- if you win the argument, i submit -- it's just not easy to win an argument with me :p) [08:21] anyway, you can try to put radios there and see for yourself :-)) [08:21] the code isn't that hard [08:21] it's in lister.{h,cpp} [08:23] I'll try that out right after I implement dualhead support in the X kmodule. :) [08:23] :-)) [08:23] see, i'll do whatever i think is best for adept =) [08:23] like it or not [08:23] of course, distributor has the veto power -- they can change the product to whatever they like :) [08:24] that's a long way of saying that it could take a long time before i get to it. ;) [08:25] Riddell: get me an usability review and i'll read it :-) === Riddell browses openusability [08:28] you know, i'm such a terrible sceptic [08:28] you have it hard with me :-) [08:29] wow, openusability looks busy, I wonder if it's along queue [08:29] Sime: Pong. [08:29] hoi sebas [08:29] long? i guess it's bigger than they can process in any sane time [08:29] Hi! [08:29] someone has been overestimating capacity :p [08:30] (that's the price for hype -- too many people want things from you and noone really helps) [08:30] Sebas and I are kind of waiting for some OU feedback [08:30] Still a good sign, much better than being ignored. [08:30] true [08:31] i was more productive in the "being ignored" phases of everything, i guess [08:31] sebas: working on the dualhead stuff on Kubuntu I see that the hwdata and discover1 data file simply do not contain the hardware info that we need. [08:32] sebas: so I've added the Mandriva files to SVN. [08:32] sebas: also, what is the fate of the Power tab in displayconfig? [08:32] eh, the "one true foo" problem :-)) [08:33] Sime: Short term: move it, it's just one widget, long term: Kill it (there has to be a powermanagement control module) [08:34] sebas: eruit slopen [08:34] I forgot what I the solution I thought out with usability-Jan was, have to wait for the report... [08:34] Yeah, but that'd mean a regression, right? [08:34] sebas: HDD spindown settings would also be good for a power module === JRee [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:39] Sime: Yeah. [08:39] Such a module probably wouldn't be too hard to do. [08:39] Tuning these settings is pretty trivial, code-wise. [08:41] Is there a syntaxhighlighted diff, btw? [08:41] of what? [08:41] Would be great for reviewing patches. [08:41] For example svn diff producing syntax highlighted output. [08:43] kubuntu.pastebin.com might do that === JRee [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:45] Hm, yeah. But that's not really intuitive ... [08:46] emacs [08:47] (for syntax-hilighted diffs) [08:47] or colordiff, but that does diff coloring, not the unterlying syntax [08:48] or use kompare [08:48] it has a nice kpart [08:49] another possibility... it just doesn't work that great for konsole users... [08:49] nothing's perfect, i guess [08:50] Yeah, most gui based svn tools have syntax highlighting. [08:50] (And I'm a vim user :-)) [08:51] and a hungry one... brb. [08:53] I'm hungry too come to think of it :) [08:54] Let's eat! (And colordiff accepts diff from STDIN, which is good.) [08:56] And it even has a manpage with cute examples! [08:56] function cvsdiff () { cvs diff $@ | colordiff |less -R; } === _Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === _Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === claydoh [n=claydoh@65.99.187.196] has joined #kubuntu-devel === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:48] Sime: you mentioned that would like to make keyboard setup easier. Care to explain? [ oI just started a thread on the xkb list, after fighting last night to get the infos for the MM keys together for submition to xkeybaord-config] === claydoh [n=claydoh@65.99.187.196] has joined #kubuntu-devel === claydoh [n=claydoh@65.99.187.196] has joined #kubuntu-devel