[12:05] <lifeless> wow
[12:05] <mfuentes> Hi,
[12:05] <lifeless> so yes, nothing merged
[12:05] <mfuentes> Is the registration system of the launchpad ok?
[12:06] <mfuentes> The URL sended to the mail for activate my account es 404 :\
[12:06] <lifeless> kiko: btw the changes were not bzr related, they were a reorganisation requested by steve
[12:07] <kiko> lifeless, thank god
[12:07] <kiko> mfuentes, what URL was that?
[12:07] <mfuentes> launchpad.net/token/...
[12:07] <kiko> mfuentes, did you take too long?
[12:07] <kiko> mfuentes, can you try again?
[12:08] <mfuentes> page not found :(
[12:09] <lifeless> mfuentes: ask for another email kiko means
[12:09] <lifeless> mfuentes: they time out.
[12:10] <carlos> lifeless, hi
[12:10] <kiko> mfuentes, they time out, and we haven't yet fixed the bug that would lead the token to have a less horrible page
[12:10] <carlos> lifeless, I'm following the instructions at https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup
[12:11] <lifeless> carlos: ok
[12:11] <carlos> lifeless, but I get an error with bzr, seems like it does not understand the sftp:// when branching
[12:11] <lifeless> carlos: do you have paramiko installed ?
[12:11] <carlos> lifeless, yes
[12:11] <lifeless> can you do this for me
[12:12] <lifeless> python -c 'import bzrlib.transport.sftp'
[12:12] <carlos> lifeless, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filelgXnkv.html
[12:12] <carlos> ImportError: No module named sftp
[12:13] <lifeless> python -c 'import bzrlib;print bzrlib.__version__'
[12:14] <carlos> 0.6pre
[12:14] <lifeless> this is decidely strange
[12:14] <lifeless> are you running from source or debs ?
[12:14] <carlos> debs
[12:14] <lifeless> dpkg -l bzr
[12:15] <carlos> ii  bzr            0.1.1+20051018
[12:15] <lifeless> ah
[12:15] <lifeless> update :0
[12:15] <carlos> lifeless, I had to revert to that version because latest one is broken
[12:15] <lifeless> carlos: there is a newer one than the broken one
[12:16] <carlos> yeah, it was not there latest time I did the dist-upgrade ...
[12:16] <carlos> anyway, I get the same error
[12:19] <Nafallo> is it?
[12:19] <Nafallo> 20051020 is the latest one, no?
[12:19] <carlos> lifeless, sorry, my fault, it's working now
[12:20] <lifeless> carlos: cool
[12:20] <lifeless> I'm going to do a faster import process
[12:21] <lifeless> so don't do the big branch conversion yet.. but making sure you can checkout everything and so on is good
[12:21] <Nafallo> hmm, worked here to ;-)
[12:22] <carlos> lifeless, ok
[12:24] <lifeless> if you want to do branch conversion on non-launchpad branches, thats cool
[12:31] <cprov> time to sleeeeeeeeep, see you tomorrow guys, good night 
[12:32] <lifeless> kiko: clean checkout, imports ok :[
[12:37] <carlos> see you tomorrow!
[12:38] <sivang> any chacne spec tracker is experiencing problem? I just got the "please report a bug" page trying to add just another one
[12:38] <lifeless> Kinnison: ping
[12:43] <kiko> lifeless, no clue as to why?
[12:43] <lifeless> kiko: its mystifying me
[12:44] <kiko> shucks
[12:44] <lifeless> I've disabled pqm and when the current merge stops, I'll try inline
[12:44] <kiko> pyc leftovers?
[12:44] <lifeless> clean tree every time
[12:44] <lifeless> it gets rm -rf'ed
[12:45] <sivang> Removing Default Programs - better mechanism to remove programs included in the default installation. Not removing ubuntu-desktop, maybe somehow remembering this is a default installation minus program removed, so you won't have problems when upgrading to a new distro version.
[12:45] <sivang> oops
[12:45] <sivang> sorry
[12:45] <kiko> no! you're fired!
[12:45] <sivang> haha :)
[12:48] <sivang> kiko: I filed a bug. spec tracker seem to really no like JUST the spec data I inputted at #3431
[12:48] <sivang> kiko: otherwise it feels fine with the other specs I;ve registered
[12:50] <sivang> how can I reassign a bug after already entering it?
[12:52] <sivang> kiko: you were joking right? (although you're silence is somewhat disturbing ;-) )
[12:52] <kiko> heh
[12:52] <kiko> sivang, you can click on the link in the top box and then change the assignee
[12:53] <sivang> kiko: where? ;-)
[12:53] <kiko> in the little box at the top of the bug page
[12:53] <sivang> kiko: bug details?
[12:54] <kiko> huh? no, fix requested in
[12:54] <sivang> kiko: ok, should I enter "launchpad" as the upstream product?
[12:55] <sivang> becasue pressing "Add" again ives the "error occured in launchpad page"
[12:55] <sivang> (launchpad/+bug/3431/+upstreamtask)
[12:56] <sivang> ah! man, I just clicked the whole region there, and finally got it
[12:56] <kiko> crack
[12:56] <kiko> yeah
[12:56] <kiko> it's horrible
[12:56] <kiko> horrible
[12:56] <kiko> nobody wants to fix it
[12:56] <sivang> I wasn't sure this:
[12:56] <kiko> I might do that next week
[12:56] <sivang> launchpad (upstream)    New   Normal   
[12:56] <kiko> yeah
[12:56] <sivang> ^^^^^^^
[12:56] <kiko> totally horrible
[12:56] <sivang> is the link :-D
[12:56] <kiko> please don't rub it in
[12:56] <lifeless> kiko: nobody wants to fix it ? I'm sure brad would love too
[12:56] <sivang> hehe
[12:56] <sivang> kiko: that's should be a relatively small UI change no?
[12:57] <kiko> mpt and the sab are in a deadlock over it
[12:57] <sivang> (/me is still uneducated aboue it, sorry for how this may sound)
[12:57] <kiko> it is a trivial change
[12:57] <kiko> but nobody agrees on how to do it
[12:57] <sivang> kiko: I see
[12:57] <sivang> kiko: spec it for UBZ ? :-D
[12:58] <lifeless> I think we should let the same wave his wand
[12:58] <lifeless> anything would be better
[12:59] <kiko> anything
[12:59] <kiko> even no link
[12:59] <sivang> I suggst to add another "obvious" action link
[12:59] <sivang> like "Request fix" thingies
[01:01] <sivang> I'm also wondering what the rationale about seperating editing the description, and the other details.
[01:02] <sivang> also, would be nice to ahve a way to search bugs by reporter
[01:02] <kiko> sivang, can you reproduce the system error you got in +upstreamtask?
[01:03] <sivang> kiko: let's try
[01:03] <kiko> I can't
[01:04] <sivang> kiko: I think that will happen again on a new bug, which has never been "+editbugs'd"
[01:04] <sivang> kiko: I'll test that again with a dummy one
[01:05] <sivang> bah!
[01:05] <sivang> EWORKFORME
[01:06] <sivang> ah ok
[01:06] <sivang> it happened while I Was trying to request and +upstreamtask,
[01:09] <kiko> yeah
[01:09] <kiko> can't reproduce, sivang?
[01:10] <kiko> oh
[01:10] <kiko> you typed in launchpad
[01:10] <kiko> gotcha
[01:11] <sivang> yes :)
[01:11] <sivang> I was just trying to tell you, but my breezy crashed!
[01:11] <sivang> (had to do full blown reboot)
[01:12] <sivang> should I not have typed in launchpad?
[01:14] <sivang> kiko: when there will be a way to remove specs?
[01:17] <sivang> hmm, proxy error on a spec again
[01:25] <kiko> someday
[01:25] <kiko> :)
[01:25] <kiko> lifeless, no love?
[01:26] <sivang> kiko: so, was me inputting "launchpad" a bad move ?
[01:26] <lifeless> kiko: its checking out still
[01:27] <lifeless> doing a make check
[01:27] <kiko> darn
[01:28] <lifeless> if this passes
[01:28] <lifeless> I'll do a merge of your pending request
[01:28] <lifeless> and make check again
[01:28] <kiko> thanks
[01:28] <lifeless> if that fails, then I think I know what the problem is
[01:28] <kiko> there were two actually
[01:28] <lifeless> are you merged up with lp ?
[01:29] <kiko> yes
[01:29] <lifeless> good
[01:29] <kiko> I can resubmit of course
[01:29] <kiko> should I?
[01:29] <lifeless> not yet
[01:29] <kiko> I need to leave soonish
[01:29] <kiko> no lunch today
[01:29] <kiko> 9:30pm
[01:29] <kiko> gina still being loved
[01:29] <lifeless> in your tree, do 'ls -ld lib/hct'
[01:29] <lifeless> dude. 
[01:30] <lifeless> christian.reis@canonical.com--lozenge/launchpad--trivialities--1--patch-69 <- I'm trying to get this one in
[01:30] <kiko> cool
[01:31] <lifeless> so - 'ls -ld lib/hct' pleas
[01:31] <sivang> man, another system error on a spec. probably unrelated to the data itself
[01:32] <lifeless> stub: what branch did your import error on ?
[01:33] <stub> cookiecrumber something. I think that branch has given us grief before and is stuffed even for baz IIRC. I suspect we need to skip it.
[01:33] <stub> Or delete it.
[01:34] <stub> importing stuart.bishop@canonical.com/cookiecrumbler--canonical--1.2 into /home/warthogs/archives/stuart.bishop@canonical.com/cookiecrumbler/1.2/canonical
[01:34] <stub> Cleaning up
[01:34] <stub> bzr: ERROR: conflict when applying pybaz.Revision('stuart.bishop@canonical.com/cookiecrumbler--release--1.2--patch-1') to /home/warthogs/archives/stuart.bishop@canonical.com/cookiecrumbler/1.2/baz2bzr-yLd8cN/rd
[01:34] <stub>   command: '/home/warthogs/source/bzr.integration/bzr' 'baz-import' 'stuart.bishop@canonical.com' 'stuart.bishop@canonical.com'
[01:34] <stub>   pwd: /home/warthogs/archives
[01:34] <stub>   at /home/pqm/source/pybaz/pybaz/_builtin.py line 2078, in apply()
[01:34] <stub>   see ~/.bzr.log for debug information
[01:36] <lifeless> stub: ok. uhm, do we use cookiecrumbler ?
[01:36] <lifeless> stub: also, do you need help getting staging to build configs with cm ?
[01:36] <lifeless> and dogfood
[01:37] <stub> Yes, but I think we use the modified copy in my Plone tree rather than my modified copy in the CookieCrumbler tree
[01:37] <stub> lifeless: Dogfood is Kinnison now, although he might want to take my staging work. I'll give staging a go myself once I'm running with bzr and ping you if I get stuck.
[01:38] <stub> I guess we will need bleeding edge bzr installed on asuka, gangotri, emperor, maquarie & macaroni if it isn't already
[01:38] <lifeless> yes
[01:39] <lifeless> well, 0.1.1 at least
[01:39] <kiko> lifeless, Kinnison wrote about dogfood, did you see that?
[01:39] <lifeless> kiko: yes, and its two fold
[01:39] <lifeless> kiko: I have fixed the dogfood config for him
[01:39] <lifeless> but his rollout stuff does need to change.
[01:44] <gneuman> night guys
[01:45] <stub> lifeless: So should I give the archive conversion another spin after moving the offending branch out of the way, or is there a way I can tell it to skip that one?
[01:46] <stub> I don't think it will cause any issues if we lost it.
[01:52] <lifeless> stub: I'm going to do archive conversions for people
[01:52] <lifeless> to bootstrap faster
[01:52] <lifeless> so, just do branch conversions of your dists branches
[01:53] <lifeless> I'll look at that branch for you later
[01:53] <lifeless> its a project of its own right ?
[01:53] <stub> If you are doing the archive conversion then there is no need for me to convert my dist branches.
[01:53] <lifeless> or is it an lp branch ?
[01:54] <lifeless> well, you need your dist branch to send in changes to dists, no ?
[01:54] <stub> CookieCrumber is a 3rd party project for cookie authentication, used as part of plone, that I hacked to stop passwords flying about in clear text.
[01:54] <lifeless> ok.
[01:55] <lifeless> well that, if you dont need the history, yes, just delete
[01:55] <stub> lifeless: I can make a new dists branch happily
[01:55] <lifeless> stub: I'd kind of like to be sure the process works
[01:55] <lifeless> making new branches is trivial
[01:55] <lifeless> in fact, after you delete dists, just start the archive converter
[01:55] <lifeless> it will do dists for you
[01:55] <lifeless> (c..d)
[01:56] <stub> ok. So I should remove the CookieCrumbler evil and run the conversion again as per the wiki?
[01:56] <stub> you just confused me :-/
[01:57] <lifeless> yes
[01:57] <lifeless> but when it gets onto launchpad, hit ctrl C
[01:59] <lifeless> kiko: tests pass in rf
[01:59] <lifeless> kiko: now with your merge
[02:01] <sivang> celso is on france TZ right ?
[02:03] <lifeless> kiko: I have the bug isolated
[02:03] <lifeless> kiko: fixing
[02:07] <kiko> thank god
[02:07] <lifeless> broken Makefile in hct
[02:07] <kiko> lifeless, are you merging me /up-to/ patch 69, or just 69?
[02:08] <lifeless> kiko: as you are here, just resubmit whatever you would like merged
[02:08] <lifeless> ok, 2701 will fix this
[02:09] <lifeless> BTW, if you have a situation where pqm fails and local tests do not, run 'make check_merge' it will do exactly what pqm does.
[02:09] <lifeless> pqm reenable
[02:09] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Disable autodetection of sourcecode/projects-to-test due to Makefilefiles not working in all cases. (patch-2701)
[02:09] <lifeless> ok. that should be good now.
[02:11] <stub> ok. conversion ran, including dists, and I ctrl-C'd it on the first launchpad branch
[02:11] <lifeless> ok
[02:11] <kiko> thanks lifeless 
[02:12] <lifeless> now you should sign your revisions
[02:12] <lifeless> kiko: np.
[02:12] <lifeless> kiko: If things are completely bolluxed, you can ring me at stupid hours
[02:12] <lifeless> I wont be happy, but I will try to help.
[02:13] <stub> So it is correct that the conversion scripts stuffed the bzr branches into my baz archive?
[02:13] <lifeless> stub: no, what dir did you run the conversion from ?
[02:14] <stub>  /home/warthogs/archives/
[02:14] <lifeless> stub: there is a 'cd $usercode' that you skipped
[02:14] <stub>  /home/warthogs/source/bzr.integration/bzr baz-import stuart.bishop@canonical.com stuart.bishop@canonical.com
[02:14] <stub> ok
[02:15] <stub> Which already exists if you did the stuff up the top
[02:15] <lifeless> yes
[02:15] <lifeless> :[
[02:18] <stub> To stop other losers doing what I just did, the mkdir can be a mkdir -p, followed by a cd to the $userid directory, then gpg --import ../allcommitters.gpg
[02:18] <lifeless> stub: good idea, can you edit it ?
[02:18] <stub> Sure
[02:38] <lifeless> revisions 2555/2727 0:57:57
[02:39] <lifeless> are we there yet!
[02:40] <kiko> lifeless, why do these latest commits not include any patchlogs?
[02:46] <stub> Resigned my dists branch, but I suspect that modifying that rsync line will trash my chinstrap bzr archive
[02:47] <lifeless> stub: hmm
[02:47] <lifeless> kiko: which commits ?
[02:47] <sivang> good night people
[02:47] <lifeless> stub: we should detangle your archives
[02:48] <stub> eh? I think I have if you mean the dud bzr branches created in my baz archive
[02:48] <lifeless> ok, so what did you mean then 
[02:49] <stub> I've rsynced stuff, using the example command line, locally and resigned one of my branches. If I use the same command line with the source and dest reversed it will delete all the .py files on chinstrap I think
[02:49] <kiko> lifeless, patch-2701 and 2702?
[02:50] <kiko> err 2700 and 2701
[02:50] <lifeless> kiko: I commited them directly
[02:51] <lifeless> kiko: its the only way to get tree-nesting changes done.
[02:57] <kiko> spiv?
[02:57] <kiko> I see
[02:59] <lifeless> stub: thats ok.
[03:00] <lifeless> stub: those .py files are not needed
[03:00] <lifeless> stub: each bzr branch is *both* an 'archive of history' (the .bzr dir), and a working tree (the launchpad source)
[03:00] <lifeless> the only value in the working tree is in changes that have not been committed
[03:01] <kiko> spiv, stub:
[03:02] <kiko> http://localhost:58000/search?digest=2d227a7e3e67d59c92cd265003ac882b76ae45eb
[03:02] <kiko> does this look like a reasonable librarian URL?
[03:02] <lifeless> why the ?
[03:02] <lifeless> (the ? will stop a lot of proxies caching it)
[03:02] <stub> That is a search by sha1, which should only work on the LAN
[03:02] <kiko> dunno, it's how you talk to the librarian.
[03:02] <spiv> kiko: Yeah, it is.
[03:03] <kiko> stub, not even on localhost?
[03:03] <stub> you are your own lan
[03:03] <kiko> hmmm
[03:03] <lifeless> spiv: do we have ? in our urls for the librarian to the public ?
[03:03] <stub> and everyman is an island
[03:03] <kiko> why does this return notfound for me :-(
[03:03] <stub> nope
[03:03] <spiv> It doesn't have any localhost-only access restrictions, but it's never linked.
[03:04] <kiko> spiv, I'm uploading and then doing a pull for that URL
[03:04] <spiv> kiko: the "search" resource ought to be configured by daemons/librarian.tac
[03:04] <kiko> should work, shouldn't it?
[03:04] <lifeless> kiko: has it finished the commit ?
[03:04] <kiko> hummm
[03:04] <spiv> kiko: Are you getting a 404, or something else?
[03:04] <kiko> checking.
[03:05] <spiv> Also, I'm curious about why you need to use that resource -- if you have direct access to the database, just use the database.
[03:05] <kiko> I got.. a zero.
[03:05] <kiko> spiv, hmmm. okay, good point.
[03:05] <spiv> Ah.  So, no results.  Sorry, "notfound" was rather unclear :)
[03:06] <spiv> I'm not sure that anything is actually using that feature in production...
[03:07] <kiko> it worked!
[03:07] <kiko> checking the database directly was a good idea.
[03:08] <kiko> no clue how I actually saw it without committing.
[03:08] <lifeless> you get the id back before the transaction finishes IIRC
[03:09] <kiko> indeed
[03:09] <spiv> lifeless: The default mode now is that the client does the database access, including committing.
[03:09] <lifeless> spiv: ah
[03:09] <spiv> So it's perfectly possible that the client has an id that the librarian can't see in the db yet.
[03:09] <lifeless> in my day ... :)
[03:09] <spiv> lifeless: :)
[03:09] <spiv> Yeah, nothing in production is actually using the search "feature".
[03:15] <stub> You should never need to construct URLs to the librarian anyway. The only thing clients should deal with to get to the librarian is client.py, and bypassing that is unsupported.
[03:15] <stub> Or LibraryFileAlias/LibraryFileContent which make use of client.py
[03:17] <kiko> client.py unfortunately is chock-full of deprecated methods
[03:17] <stub> kiko: LibrarianGarbageCollection is cleaning them out
[03:18] <kiko> stub, you added bug 3438 which is a dupe of bug 3436
[03:18] <stub> Anyway - the good stuff should be exposed on LibraryFileAlias, LibraryFileAliasSet etc.
[03:18] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[03:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3436: no sensible error message when adding a spec which has already been added. Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3436
[03:18] <kiko> stub, how about searching malone before filing bugs? :-)
[03:18] <stub> kiko: But you do a much better job of it than I ever would ;)
[03:19] <kiko> I have one big mailbox full of bugs!
[03:23] <mpool> hm
[03:23] <mpool> is it possible to get Ubugtu to join #bzr?
[03:25] <kiko> if you ask Seveas /nicely/
[03:29] <mpool> so if i just mention bug 3049 ...
[03:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3049: revert doesn't remove conflicts Fix req. for: bzr (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3049
[03:30] <mpool> nice!
[03:30] <mpool> Seveas: ping?
[03:37] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.37: Cherry picks (patch-4: christian.reis@canonical.com, stuart.bishop@canonical.com, carlos.perello@canonical.com ...)
[03:44] <kiko> thanks stub 
[03:51] <lifeless> Seveas: can you get Ubugtu to join #bzr ?
[03:57] <kiko-zzz> night guys
[03:57] <kiko-zzz> gina's almost there
[03:57] <kiko-zzz> almost
[03:58] <ajmitch> yay
[04:29] <Alinux> alive? 
[04:29] <Alinux> :D
[04:29] <Alinux> hello all.
[04:34] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: rs=stevea, stub, ddaa [hackish]  fix for bug 3410: Bazaar index page is broken. Split ProductSeriesSet into a separate ProductSeriesSourceSet class, and use that for the bazaar views. Will have a followup bug to fix this properly. Also Fix for bug 2668: product visible despite being inactive and bug 2669: project still visible, despite being flagged as inactive. Remove inactive products and projects from
[04:49] <lifeless> win 17
[05:23] <patr1ck> Hello! is the ability to create new accounts down or something? I ask only cause i've been waiting like 20 minutes for this registration URL to be emailed.
[05:31] <patr1ck> ah, nevermind, it seems hotmail just sucks. whodathunkit? :) bye!
[05:57] <jamesh> lifeless: just looked at the pending-reviews page: your bzr branch didn't turn up because it didn't have the branch name in backticks
[05:58] <jamesh> lifeless: I fixed that, but it also looks like the path is wrong
[05:58] <lifeless> ok
[05:58] <lifeless> checking
[05:58] <jamesh> I don't see a /home/warthogs/archives/robertc/dists/devel
[05:58] <lifeless> ah yes
[05:58] <lifeless> I moved
[05:58] <lifeless> done
[05:59] <jamesh> I also had the rocketfuel branch URLs wrong initially, but that should be fixed for the next run
[05:59] <lifeless> can you kick one off now ?
[06:00] <jamesh> sure.
[06:11] <jamesh> well, it definitely picked up some bzr rocketfuel branches that time: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews.new/rocketfuel-branches
[06:12] <jamesh> (it will probably be a while before it hits your branch)
[06:13] <mpool> jamesh: how's bzr going for your branches?
[06:13] <jamesh> mpool: I haven't converted any of my launchpad branches
[06:14] <jamesh> mpool: I've played with it a bit for some personal projects though, and it seems quite nice
[06:15] <jamesh> mpool: I'm looking forward to the switching though -- baz was getting to the point where I was considering buying another gig of memory
[06:15] <mpool> wow
[06:15] <mpool> jamesh: robert is pretty keen on using twisted in bzrlib
[06:16] <mpool> have you used it at all or run into it in pygtk?
[06:16] <jamesh> my experience with twisted is very limited
[06:16] <mpool> i wrote a pygtk & http toy on top of twisted and it seemed to go well
[06:18] <jamesh> cool.
[06:19] <lifeless> jamesh: so, hows it running ?
[06:19] <jamesh> lifeless: chugging away.
[06:20] <jamesh> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews.new/ <- you can see the progress there
[06:22] <mpool> how does one authenticate to cinstrap http?
[06:22] <jamesh> I'll /msg you the password
[06:40] <fabbione> hey guys
[06:40] <fabbione> what does provide ImportError: No module named gettextpo
[06:40] <fabbione>  ?
[06:41] <lifeless> you have not done 'make build' probably
[06:41] <fabbione> lifeless: there is no such thing in the wiki...
[06:42] <fabbione> make build where and when?
[06:42] <jamesh> fabbione: in the launchpad/ directory
[06:43] <fabbione> jamesh: as i told yesterday to lifeless i am following the wiki step by step
[06:43] <fabbione> there is no such thing
[06:43] <fabbione> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup
[06:43] <fabbione> i am at Database Setup
[06:43] <fabbione> the Database setup assume the presence of gettextpo
[06:43] <fabbione> so either we are missing a package in the apt-get steps
[06:44] <fabbione> or as you say it's missing a command
[06:46] <jamesh> what was being run when you got that error, out of interest?
[06:50] <fabbione> cd $your_launchpad_checkout/database/schema; make; cd -
[06:50] <fabbione> from DatabaseSetup
[06:52] <jamesh> I mean what command was make running at the time it failed?
[06:52] <fabbione> * Installing tsearch2 into ts2 schema
[06:52] <fabbione> Traceback (most recent call last):
[06:53] <fabbione> do you want the full error?
[06:54] <jamesh> nope.  that's fine
[06:54] <jamesh> does running "make" in $your_launchpad_checkout beforehand fix the problem?
[06:56] <fabbione> dunno.. i can try
[06:58] <fabbione> make fixes that problem
[06:58] <fabbione> but the same module comes out with a different error now
[06:59] <fabbione> and yes pg is running
[06:59] <fabbione> and configured as requested
[07:01] <jamesh> what error?
[07:01] <fabbione> jamesh: see /msg
[07:02] <jamesh> is there a unix domain socket by that name?
[07:02] <fabbione> nope
[07:02] <jamesh> you installed the postgres 8 packages ?:)
[07:02] <fabbione> yes
[07:02] <jamesh> okay
[07:03] <jamesh> the postgres 8 packages are set to listen on a different port (presumably so that you can run both 7.4 and 8.0 at the same time)
[07:03] <fabbione> hmmmm
[07:03] <fabbione> ah i think i know what's wrong
[07:03] <jamesh> if you want to use postgres 8, I think you need to set the port back to the default
[07:03] <fabbione> jamesh: no there is a problem with the procedure
[07:07] <fabbione> jamesh: hmm no
[07:08] <fabbione> jamesh: the make in db/schema is accessing pgsql via unix socketsd
[07:08] <fabbione> sockets
[07:08] <fabbione> not via port
[07:08] <fabbione> so that shouldn't matter at all
[07:10] <fabbione> ok the problem is the default pgsql config
[07:10] <fabbione> it sticks the socket in /tmp instead of /var/run/postsgresql
[07:11] <jamesh> fabbione: sure, but the unix domain sockets are named after the TCP port number used
[07:11] <jamesh> fabbione: so postgres is listening on /var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5433 rather than /var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432
[07:12] <jamesh> either use postgres 7.4, or edit 8.0's postgresql.conf to use the default port number
[07:13] <fabbione> jamesh: no, the problem is not the socket name.. that one is OK
[07:13] <fabbione> it's the path
[07:13] <fabbione> to the socket
[07:14] <fabbione> if you look in /etc/postgresql/8.0/main/postgresql.conf
[07:14] <fabbione> on a default pgsql8.0 install
[07:14] <fabbione> unix_socket_directory points to /tmp
[07:14] <fabbione> instead of /vat/run/postgresql
[07:14] <fabbione> the socket number is irrelevant since apparently make was able to detect it automatically without me changing anything
[07:19] <SteveA_> morning
[07:19] <fabbione> hi SteveA 
[07:20] <SteveA_> hey fabbione.
[07:20] <SteveA_> what kinda time in the morning do you call this!
[07:20] <fabbione> "morning"? ;)
[07:21] <SteveA_> man, this is morningmorning
[07:21] <SteveA_> for emphasis
[07:21] <fabbione> ehheeh
[07:55] <SteveA_> hi stub 
[07:55] <SteveA_> i've tried a few times to land that 'top 10 bugfixes' branch
[07:55] <SteveA_> but pqm won't let me
[07:56] <SteveA_> lifeless: you know about the problems landing stuff in pqm, right?
[07:56] <lifeless> SteveA_: fixed
[07:56] <SteveA_> cool
[07:56] <lifeless> SteveA_: hct had a makefile
[07:56] <lifeless> the makefiles check statement did not work in the new location
[07:56] <lifeless> so I have manually listed the things to test, for now.
[07:57] <lifeless> so, finally.
[07:57] <lifeless> I have bzr commits doing email
[07:57] <SteveA_> hurrah
[07:57] <stub> SteveA: I tried merging in your trivial-1 branch, but there is too much extra junk in there. If you give me a list of patches I can merge it all into a local branch and roll it out (if you promise you havn't broken any tests since we havn't got PQM to verify it this way)
[07:57] <lifeless> see the latest arch-commits email
[07:57] <SteveA_> stub: the only extra there will be is a straight merge from RF
[07:58] <SteveA_> so you can try the patchlevel below its latest
[07:58] <stub> SteveA: ok
[08:44] <lordk4rf> am i crazy or did the internet just hiccup/split
[08:45] <fabbione> lordk4rf: Level3 is half dead
[08:46] <lordk4rf> can anyone explain the ISP agreement between level3 & cogentco or do i have to settle for the articles on news.com about it?
[08:46] <lordk4rf> http://news.com.com/Net+backbone+outage+fixed%2C+for+now/2100-1036_3-5891274.html http://news.com.com/Network+feud+leads+to+Net+blackout/2100-1038_3-5889592.html http://news.com.com/Blackout+shows+Nets+fragility/2100-1038_3-5890424.html etc, and so forth
[08:50] <fabbione> lordk4rf: this is highly offtopic here
[08:56] <lordk4rf> i know that
[08:56] <lordk4rf> but i figured i could strike up a conversation since it seemed to be lulling
[09:01] <jamesh> lordk4rf: most Launchpad developers have nothing to do with the internet connection to the data centre
[09:01] <lordk4rf> understood, sorry to interrupt your sleep
[09:11] <SteveA_> spiv, stub, jamesh: are you there?
[09:11] <jamesh> yeah
[09:11] <stub> yeah
[09:11] <SteveA_> so, what database / infrastructure / production specs do we have for UBZ?
[09:11] <SteveA_> i have a few
[09:12] <SteveA_>  - new security stuff to allow different handling of different sets of attributes without extreme pain
[09:12] <SteveA_>  - standard patterns of Content and ContentSet classes
[09:12] <SteveA_>  - better logins
[09:12] <SteveA_>  - better calendaring
[09:13] <stub> OscarTheGrouch now has use cases
[09:13] <stub> SuggestionSearchControl might be wanted to get that back on the rails
[09:14] <SteveA_> mark wants some infrastructure to so 
[09:14] <SteveA_> mark wants some infrastructure to do 'incremental' queries in the web ui
[09:14] <spiv> I'm here.
[09:14] <SteveA_> sort of filtering step by step
[09:14] <stub> ShipitWorkflow (not really infrastructure)
[09:14] <SteveA_> there are examples online we can look at
[09:14] <jamesh> incremental == displaying chunks of a result set?
[09:14] <SteveA_> stub: kind of is... to do with logins
[09:15] <SteveA_> jamesh: more like being offered filtering criteria as you go
[09:15] <spiv> Oh, right.
[09:15] <SteveA_> so you start off say with bugs in a context
[09:15] <SteveA_> and then you can say 'not fixed'
[09:15] <spiv> I thought you meant batch navigation :)
[09:15] <SteveA_> and then say 'urgent'
[09:15] <stub> Sounds like data mining
[09:15] <SteveA_> and then say 'containing "foo"'
[09:15] <jamesh> I added a ValidatingSignOnlyGpgKeys spec (not sure if that counts as infrastructure)
[09:15] <SteveA_> but, for many different things, not just bugs
[09:15] <stub> GpgSmtpRelay we might want
[09:16] <stub> person-name-blacklist for sure
[09:16] <stub> launchpad-email-addresses
[09:16] <SteveA_> ajmitch: cool.  there's a phone meeting in a while for just the infrastructure team, so we're talking about infrastrcuture-related specs now
[09:16] <stub> perhaps finalize the rss-feeds
[09:16] <ajmitch> ok
[09:17] <SteveA_> launchpad over HTTP
[09:18] <stub> Perhaps postgresql-transaction-isolation might be worth bofing
[09:19] <SteveA_> maybe
[09:19] <jamesh> stub: especially if it helps with interactions between the webapp and cronscripts
[09:19] <SteveA_> ajmitch: you can just add them to the wiki, and add them in launchpad
[09:19] <stub> Nut out how SQLObject and stuff will handle with <serialized, and what level various cronscripts should be running as.
[09:19] <SteveA_> ajmitch: if they're about bug tracking, talk to bjornt about it
[09:19] <ajmitch> SteveA_: I will, they've come out of MOTU discussions
[09:20] <ajmitch> not bugtracking this time
[09:20] <SteveA_> so bjorn can discuss it in a different phone call later
[09:20] <SteveA_> ok
[09:20] <SteveA_> stub: we need to get error handling polished up
[09:20] <stub> ok
[09:21] <stub> All the ones I mentioned except transaction isolation are already in Launchpad atm (but not necessarily scheduled for ubz)
[09:21] <SteveA_> ok
[09:21] <jamesh> stub: with the lower synchronisation levels, rows get added to the transaction when they're first touched, right?
[09:21] <jamesh> stub: I think sqlobject should be fine with that
[09:22] <stub> jamesh: read committed gives you phantom reads - If you issue the same select twice in the same transaction you might get different results.
[09:22] <SteveA_> spiv: can you check that all these specs we've discussed are added to launchpad before the phone call?  i have an appointment right now, until the phone call.
[09:22] <spiv> SteveA: Ok.
[09:22] <stub> jamesh: which is the default level in psycopg2 I think
[09:22] <SteveA_> than you
[09:22] <SteveA_> k
[09:23] <stub> ok
[09:23] <SteveA_> jamesh: did you talk with the travel agent?
[09:23] <jamesh> stub: okay.  That might cause troubles with sqlobject's caching
[09:23] <jamesh> SteveA_: yeah.  I'm picking up the reissued tickets on Monday
[09:24] <SteveA_> jamesh: please put your new dates on the wiki, if you haven't already
[09:24] <stub> jamesh: I'm not so sure. We already have plenty of issues like this, which we work around by invoking the sync routines as needed
[09:24] <stub> jamesh: I'm also pretty sure many of the cronscripts won't care, as they have a very simple workflow (stuff like the karma updater and the statisticians for example)
[09:25] <jamesh> stub: really? the existing sync functions are needed to fix problems that can occur in a single transaction at full isolation
[09:27] <stub> jamesh: Yes. eg. the select you issue not seeing results you expect to see because the modifications you have made to objects has not yet been synced to the database. Also, SQLObject works in databases with less strict isolation I think. But I don't think launchpad is the main target - the cronscripts should be since they tend to have longer running transactions.
[09:28] <jamesh> stub: I was talking about the caching of reads rather than the caching of updates
[09:28] <jamesh> stub: sqlobject caches a copy of all the field values when you grab an instance, which is different to the problem of lazy updates
[09:31] <stub> jamesh: Sure. But the issues are similar. Any code that issues raw SQL (which we need to do whenever SQLObject doesn't cut it) will cause a desync with the caches.
[10:17] <carlos> morning
[10:22] <stub> morning
[10:30] <stub> 15:29:20~ $ bzr branch sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/stub/stuart@stuartbishop.net/dists/devel production
[10:30] <stub> bzr: WARNING: Adding ssh-rsa host key for stuartbishop.net: 25C22626CBB79A58BE0CDC45B7F943C0
[10:30] <stub> SSH id_rsa password:
[10:32] <stub> lifeless: If I hit enter to each of the three prompts, it continues happily. ie. bzr is trying password auth before realizing that there are ssh keys available to be used.
[10:32] <stub> erm... I take that back
[10:32] <spiv> stub: Heh.
[10:32] <carlos> lifeless, shouldn't we change the setup information for Zope to use python2.4 at https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup ?
[10:32] <spiv> It's geting confused by the "@" it would seem.
[10:33] <stub> I see.
[10:33] <stub> So the archive name created by the migration script is bogus (for everyday use anyway)
[10:34] <spiv> It seems like it.
[10:34] <spiv> Or,
[10:34] <spiv> try sftp://stuart@chinstrap/.... to workaround it.
[10:34] <SteveA_> re
[10:35] <spiv> Although I wouldn't be shocked if you have to give a full host name too, I have no idea if paramiko tries to make use of openssh's config files.
[10:35] <stub> I have no idea what a paramiko is :)
[10:35] <spiv> stub: The SFTP library bzr is using :)
[10:35] <stub> heh... it is the think that blows up when I do your suggestion ;)
[10:36] <spiv> Hooray! ;)
[10:38] <jamesh> stub: try percent encoding the @?
[10:39] <stub> ok. Seems to be doing something (ie. sitting there giving me no feedback) if I put in the stub@ at the start of the URL and use the fully qualified domain name of chinstrap.
[10:39] <jamesh> %40
[10:39] <stub> jamesh: I'd rather just rename the directory on chinstrap
[10:42] <SteveA_> stub, jamesh, spiv: can you join the phone call
[10:42] <stub> eh?
[10:43] <SteveA_> number on #canonical
[10:43] <spiv> SteveA: following instructions from #canonical a moment ago?
[10:43] <SteveA_> yes
[10:44] <stub> Erm... this could be a problem. I'm used to conference calls that call me. I don't think I have many Baht on my card
[10:44] <SteveA_> oh.  we'll have to do this online then.
[10:45] <jamesh> so I should hang up?
[10:45] <SteveA_> hang on a sec
[10:48] <SteveA_> spiv: are you on the call?
[10:49] <spiv> SteveA: nearly
[10:49] <SteveA_> stub: anything you can do to sort it out?
[10:50] <stub> Not really. I can go buy a chargeup card, work out how to activate it, and then hope I bought enough because I havn't the foggiest idea what the i18n rates are.
[10:50] <zyga> carlos: ping :)
[10:50] <carlos> zyga, pong
[10:51] <zyga> carlos: I was wondering about something
[10:51] <carlos> zyga, tell me
[10:51] <SteveA_> stub: if you can do that in the next 20 mins, then yes
[10:51] <zyga> carlos: AFAIK final langpacks for breezy contained only about 40% of the stuff in rosetta, is that true?
[10:51] <SteveA_> if not, then we'll do your part on irc
[10:51] <carlos> zyga, more or less, yes
[10:52] <zyga> carlos: is the remaining 60% exportable?
[10:52] <carlos> zyga, don't know if the 60% but most of it, yes but need manual review to set the right translation domain
[10:53] <carlos> zyga, next language pack update should contain a full export
[10:53] <stub> SteveA: I honestly don't know how long it will take me. I can head off now and see what happens or hang around here online.
[10:53] <SteveA_> hang around here then
[10:53] <zyga> carlos: hmm? translation domain is incorrect? I don't understand how that could happen
[10:53] <carlos> zyga, because we were not able to guess it automatically
[10:54] <zyga> carlos: but....... all the translations come from some .po files anyway and are bound to a .pot file, how cannot you know the domain?
[10:54] <zyga> I'm surely missing something
[10:54] <carlos> zyga, because the .pot's filename is no always the translation domain
[10:55] <carlos> there are many 'template.pot' files
[10:55] <zyga> ah
[10:55] <zyga> true
[10:55] <zyga> okay one more question
[10:55] <SteveA_> stub: maybe you can get a calling card recharge online?
[10:55] <zyga> those tarballs I'm using - they contain everything or are they just the 40% we're talking about
[10:57] <carlos> zyga, the 40% we are talking about + anything we fix
[10:57] <zyga> okay
[10:57] <zyga> hmm
[10:58] <zyga> I'm having a tough nut to crack (I hope that's a saying in english too)
[10:58] <stub> Charge on you credit card (available                          soon)
[10:58] <zyga> carlos: what is the approximate size of all messages?
[10:58] <zyga> and the total number of messages?
[10:58] <zyga> if you know
[10:58] <carlos> zyga, I don't know if it's the same in english, I don't understand it anyway ;-)
[10:59] <carlos> zyga, no idea, sorry
[10:59] <zyga> carlos: it means that I've got a hard things to do
[10:59] <zyga> difficult
[10:59] <carlos> ok
[11:00] <zyga> okay launchpad says there are 0.5M msgids
[11:00] <zyga> in 191 languages
[11:00] <zyga> I'd guess that's about 1.4GB of data
[11:01] <carlos> zyga, but that includes Hoary and Breezy
[11:01] <zyga> ah..
[11:02] <zyga> hmm
[11:02] <zyga> okay thanks
[11:04] <zyga> carlos: does it count duplicates?
[11:04] <carlos> zyga, I think so, yes
[11:04] <zyga> carlos: if I've got 3 identical messages, I get +3 not +1
[11:04] <zyga> hmm
[11:04] <zyga> darn :)
[11:04] <zyga> I'm trying to 
[11:05] <zyga> 1) minimze number of files that need to be on a single mirror
[11:05] <zyga> 1) minimize server-to-server traffic
[11:05] <zyga> 2) minimize server-to-client traffic
[11:05] <zyga> 4) minimize the amount of wasted download per client (so that the client fetches only what it really needs to use)
[11:06] <zyga> without 1) everything else is easyt
[11:06] <zyga> but I don't know what the 'good' value is
[11:06] <zyga> having 25K small files is bad
[11:09] <zyga> only 11K files
[11:09] <carlos> zyga, I think is easier if you write down a small specification with the requirements you have and I would try to tell you if it's possible or not
[11:09] <zyga> the rest is junk/directories I guess
[11:09] <zyga> carlos: I don't have a specs at all
[11:10] <zyga> I'm trying to get two things possible
[11:10] <zyga> 1) daily translation update
[11:10] <zyga> 2) rare translation update
[11:10] <carlos> zyga, I know you don't have specs, that's why I'm asking you one ;-)
[11:11] <zyga> if I'd just put all the .po files in a big tree I've got 2 as easily as 1 but then performance sucks on various parts
[11:11] <carlos> that way I will know exactly your requirements
[11:13] <zyga> carlos: in progress, good idea :)
[11:23] <zyga> carlos: does rosetta keep any extended stats around?
[11:23] <zyga> carlos: like the daily number of commits
[11:23] <carlos> no
[11:23] <zyga> carlos: that kind of stuff
[11:23] <zyga> :/
[11:23] <zyga> darn
[11:23] <carlos> I think we would get that from the database
[11:24] <carlos> but we don't have any UI for that
[11:24] <zyga> carlos: is it possible to extract this kind of information from the commit logfiles
[11:24] <zyga> (curse the ui)
[11:25] <carlos> we store the date when a translations was added
[11:25] <carlos> so yes, we could build that kind of information
[11:25] <zyga> I'd like to get the number of daily upgrades per each language
[11:25] <zyga> so I guess every day we could count the number of entries that were updated today
[11:26] <zyga> groupped by language
[11:26] <carlos> zyga, please, file a bug report with the request
[11:26] <zyga> carlos: okay
[11:29] <SteveA_> (really good qa on links based on navigation)
[11:36] <SteveA_> stub: i have a breezy package of skype if you want to try it for later
[11:37] <zyga> SteveA_: skype built updated packages?
[11:37] <zyga> that work with breezy?
[11:37] <SteveA_> yes
[11:37] <stub> Any more planned calls? I rarely make phone calls, let alone international ones.
[11:37] <zyga> SteveA_: cool
[11:37] <SteveA_> i followed some instructions online
[11:38] <zyga> is it possible to put them into multiverse?
[11:38] <SteveA_> about getting the existing package, unpacking it, changing dependencies and repacking
[11:38] <SteveA_> dunno, maybe
[11:39] <stub> It aint 'free' so I suspect that is as likely as canonical talking to sun about java
[11:40] <zyga> stub: it's free as in beer
[11:40] <carlos> zyga, there are other options using standard SIP protocol
[11:40] <zyga> stub: equally not free are the binary drivers and we ship those
[11:41] <carlos> I don't remember the URL, but they aim to offer the same services than skype
[11:41] <carlos> and you don't need to use their client, a SIP compatible program is enough
[11:41] <zyga> carlos: I don't know what that is but I assume that's something for voice, right?
[11:41] <jamesh> zyga: we have to pay for beer over here.
[11:41] <carlos> zyga, yeah
[11:41] <zyga> carlos: as usual,  I care about the namespace
[11:42] <zyga> carlos: If I canot find my friedns/clients online other client is not good enough
[11:42] <zyga> jamesh: :-)
[11:43] <carlos> zyga, but this one is Free software and follows the standards and exists for Windows, MacOS and Linux...
[11:45] <carlos> zyga, http://www.gizmoproject.com/
[11:45] <zyga> checking
[11:45] <zyga> carlos: can I connect to skype namespace?
[11:45] <carlos> no, skype is not using open protocols so is impossible to connect with them, that's exactly its problem!
[11:46] <zyga> eh
[11:46] <zyga> so we're stuck again
[11:46] <zyga> carlos: thst's free software?
[11:46] <zyga> I cannot see any source code
[11:47] <zyga> nm, got it
[11:47] <zyga> anyway I think that skype in multiverse could be nice
[11:47] <zyga> especially since a few of my firends with ubuntu were angry when I upgraded their system to breezy
[11:47] <zyga> 'skype went away, aww'
[11:47] <carlos> zyga, I think it was last time I looked at it, anyway if it's not (I'm not able to see the source code download link now), it's using open standards
[11:48] <zyga> carlos: the source is misslabeled as a debian package
[11:48] <zyga> carlos: the link goes to .tar.gz
[11:48] <stub> Oh, I'm all for skype in Multiverse. I'm just drawing a parallel with Java, which last I heard we had never contacted Sun about shipping.
[11:49] <carlos> right
[11:49] <zyga> sun officials said numerous times that they are willing if anyone asks them about it
[11:49] <Lathiat> well we are shipping ibm java not sun java
[11:49] <Lathiat> be nice to ship sun 1.5
[11:49] <zyga> but I care for skype more then for java
[11:50] <zyga> java has many implementations
[11:50] <zyga> skype does not
[11:50] <SteveA_> shtoom, man
[11:50] <zyga> we've got some java, none skype to say it better
[11:50] <stub> Indeed. Whenever I have raised the issue, the converstation degrades into discussions about free jvm implementations despite the original topic being *sun's* java. Which is what 99% of people mean and want when they say 'java'.
[11:51] <zyga> how about a dapper goal
[11:51] <stub> And strangely enough, the same thing just happened here with Skype ;)
[11:51] <zyga> we could support 3rd party stuff that is free as in beer and works for linux I guess 
[11:51] <zyga> vmware player could be there too
[11:51] <SteveA_> stub: no
[11:51] <SteveA_> stub: i was telling you to keep shtoom ;-)
[11:52] <zyga> what is shtoom?
[11:52] <SteveA_> voip
[11:52] <SteveA_> free
[11:52] <SteveA_> in python
[11:52] <zyga> (by support I mean, hey-its-nice-of-you-to-show-some-effort-we-will-at-least-not-ignore-you)
[11:52] <stub> Indeed, which has nothing to do with Skype besides providing similar functionality
[11:53] <zyga> stub: exactly
[11:53] <zyga> okay 
[11:53] <zyga> SteveA_: is it legal to repackage the .deb they provide?
[11:53] <zyga> ajmitch: why?
[11:53] <stub> ajmitch: Has anyone actually contacted the company in question? Until then, it is nothing but speculation.
[11:54] <zyga> skype as in company will just ignore individual requests
[11:54] <ajmitch> stub: as it stands, it's not redistributable iirc
[11:54] <stub> They might say 'no', or they might say 'sure - you can distribute it under these conditions'. And if those conditions meet our requirements too, it can go in.
[11:54] <zyga> they will get a ton of lubricant if a company asks though
[11:55] <stub> 'Hi. We would like to ship out over 1M CDs containing your software'
[11:55] <zyga> :>
[11:55] <stub> Well.. it wouldn't go on the cd...
[11:55] <zyga> stub: hehe
[11:56] <zyga> stub: we would like to facilitate the installation of your software on over 1M boxes 
[11:56] <ajmitch> it'd depend on canonical making a request to redistribute, I guess
[11:56] <zyga> yes
[11:56] <ajmitch> which is just speculation as to whether it might happen :)
[11:56] <zyga> but I'd say skype would bend over and say 'please do'
[11:57] <stub> Sorry... 1.4M and counting
[11:57] <zyga> http://support.skype.com/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=200&nav=+%26gt%3B+%3Ca+href%3D%27index.php%3F_a%3Dknowledgebase%26_j%3Dsubcat%26_i%3D11%27%3ESkype+for+Linux%3C%2Fa%3E
[11:57] <zyga> we can redistribute it
[11:58] <ajmitch> it'd be canonical encouraging users to support a closed program & closed protocol
[11:58] <zyga> ajmitch: yes that's bad
[11:58] <zyga> ajmitch: but then again fglrx and nvidia are bad 
[11:58] <ajmitch> zyga: the text says that we can ship a downloader
[11:58] <zyga> but it's what the users want
[11:58] <zyga> and I'd say ubuntu wants users
[11:58] <ajmitch> it doesn't say we can distribute
[11:58] <ajmitch> users at what cost? (getting OT)
[11:58] <zyga> ajmitch: ah, true
[11:59] <zyga> ajmitch: good point
[11:59] <zyga> but then again
[11:59] <zyga> there will always be some software that is non-speach-free
[12:00] <zyga> that is beer-free and for which there is a demand
[12:00] <ajmitch> I know
[12:00] <zyga> saying 'no' is only partially good
[12:00] <ajmitch> I can accept that there's some use of this
[12:00] <zyga> we kind of support free software this way
[12:00] <ajmitch> but skype is a closed protocol as well
[12:00] <ajmitch> which I really don't like :)
[12:00] <zyga> skype is all but open - true
[12:01] <zyga> but that is irrelevant to the culeless and that's what I'm talking about
[12:03] <zyga> oh god
[12:03] <zyga> a skype autopackage that gains popularity ...
[12:03] <zyga> :-)
[12:03] <zyga> that could be hell :D
[12:04] <stub> Gaim supports a number of closed protocols as well as Jabber for IM.
[12:04] <zyga> stub: untill it support skype it's off topic
[12:05] <zyga> users don't care about protocols, they care about namespace
[12:06] <ajmitch> stub: they're 'open' enough that someone has reverse-engineered them
[12:06] <stub> Yer. So people writing VoIP stuff will see all their audience is on Skype, so they need to get some sort of compatibility in order to migrate people away from it.
[12:06] <ajmitch> which hasn't successfully been done yet on skype 
[12:06] <ajmitch> afaik
[12:07] <zyga> remember that skype was written by the people who created kazaa
[12:07] <zyga> it might be a complex protocol
[12:08] <Kinnison> ajmitch: there's a huge rework of those pages due to land soon IIRC
[12:09] <ajmitch> Kinnison: right, I'm thinking of functionality seen on debian for checking dependencies & installability
[12:09] <ajmitch> I was going to write up some code to do that for the MOTU team but figured it'd be better suited for launchpad
[12:10] <Kinnison> ajmitch: well, sabdfl knows most about those pages, but I imagine he'll be very busy on the lead-up to UBZ
[12:10] <ajmitch> alright
[12:10] <Kinnison> ajmitch: writing a spec for UBZ would be a good way to get involved in this
[12:10] <ajmitch> yes, I was going to write it up this weekend
[12:11] <Kinnison> thanks
[12:11] <Kinnison> cool
[12:14] <carlos> hmm
[12:15] <carlos> launchpad's specs page starts to be a bit difficult to follow
[12:25] <carlos> see you later
[12:26] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/software/bzr-conflicts.el
[12:27] <Keybuk> ^ for emacs users, now we're switching to bzr
[12:33] <Kinnison> Okay, I have a spec against soyuz but I think it'd be better filed against rosetta
[12:33] <Kinnison> how do I reassign the spec in launchpad?
[12:35] <jamesh> Kinnison: no web UI for that at the moment
[12:35] <Keybuk> UPDATE specs ...
[12:35] <Kinnison> oh FFS
[12:35] <Kinnison> great
[12:35] <jamesh> there is a bug for it
[12:36] <jamesh> bug 3426
[12:37] <jamesh> apparently it is really unfair
[12:39] <cprov> morning guys
[12:39] <Kinnison> hi cprov
[12:40] <cprov> jamesh: interesting new SingleJoin property in sqlobject0.7 ...how difficult would be to backport it ?
[12:40] <cprov> Kinnison: hi
[12:40] <jamesh> cprov: I don't know.  I just saw it in the documentation
[12:40] <jamesh> cprov: it probably wouldn't be too difficult
[12:41] <cprov> jamesh: do you think it'd be worth to have it ?
[12:41] <jamesh> cprov: if it makes it easier to express what you want to do, then sure.
[12:42] <jamesh> cprov: the question is whether to back port it or try to move forward to the new sqlobject version
[12:43] <cprov> jamesh: yes, it does, 2 or 3 points in soyuz, we might have other
[12:44] <cprov> jamesh: indeed, I thought  we are going near upstream, at least, in sqlobject
[12:46] <stub> So does bzr give us any sort of aliasing ability, or do we need to setup environment variables to avoid having to type sftp://blahblahblahblahblahblah/the_branch all the time?
[12:48] <Keybuk> there's a branches.conf thingy
[12:48] <Keybuk> you could also just use shell variables like subversion
[12:49] <Kinnison> s/z$/s/
[12:49] <Kinnison> spit it out girl
[12:50] <Kinnison> oh, she's not even here
[12:50] <Kinnison> that'd explain it
[12:56] <Kinnison> anyway... wooyay \o/ process-upload finally landed
[12:57] <ajmitch> yay
[12:57] <ajmitch> well done
[12:59] <stub> bah. No HTML bzr documentation installed :-(
[12:59] <stub> Would that be because the daily .deb is currently rooted?
[12:59] <ajmitch> I'd hope not
[01:00] <Kinnison> stub: is that 'rooted' in the same manner as people laugh when I pronounce 'routed' the correct way?
[01:00] <jamesh> Kinnison: we pronounce "routed" the way we do to avoid confusion
[01:01] <stub> Kinnison: That is the one
[01:01] <stub> ajmitch: The ReST documentation is in there. The HTML could be generated from there with a script on install.
[01:01] <stub> Which would fail atm because the post inst stuff dies
[01:02] <mpt> Goooooood morning
[01:03] <ajmitch> morning mpt 
[01:03] <Kinnison> mpt.
[01:04] <gneuman> mornig!
[01:04] <mpt> rats, forgot my headphones this morning
[01:05] <ajmitch> stub: yes, I see build-api could be run to get api documentation
[01:09] <Keybuk> jamesh: the funny thing is that the way you pronounce "routed" is English slang for exactly the same thing that Australian slang is for the way we pronounce "routed"
[01:15] <kiko> Kinnison, yo?
[01:16] <Kinnison> kiko: hey dude
[01:17] <kiko> Kinnison, I wonder if I could get some review time from you for gina... tomorrow morning. :)
[01:17] <Kinnison> Uhm
[01:17] <Kinnison> it's my grandmother's 90th birthday party
[01:18] <Kinnison> I can certainly have a look over it
[01:18] <Kinnison> but you shouldn't rely on just me to review it
[01:18] <kiko> well
[01:18] <kiko> I travel out of here monday
[01:18] <kiko> it will be in your hands from saturday onwards
[01:18] <kiko> so I suggest you /do/ make time for it
[01:19] <kiko> just make it stop for gina
[01:19] <kiko> do you remember that twilight zone episode?
[01:19] <kiko> the one where the lady finds a watch buried in her garden?
[01:20] <kiko> well, if you do, think about how that episode ends :)
[01:20] <SteveA_> hi
[01:20] <kiko> heya SteveA_ 
[01:21] <kiko> SteveA_, #canonical-meeting
[01:21] <SteveA_> i'm there
[01:21] <kiko> cool
[01:49] <SteveA_> bug 3451
[01:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3451: Test pages exposed on normal layer when they need not be Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Stuart Bishop, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3451
[01:50] <SteveA_> bug 3449
[01:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3449: Common HTML quoted variable interpolation code Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3449
[01:50] <SteveA_> bug 3450
[01:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3450: NotificationList has a bogus __getitem__ Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Stuart Bishop, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3450
[02:01] <mpt> nooooo
[02:01] <mpt> lifeless?
[02:01] <SteveA_> away
[02:01] <SteveA_> what's up
[02:02] <mpt> baz crashed during a switch
[02:02] <SteveA_> baz?
[02:02] <mpt> and now nothing works
[02:02] <SteveA_> what kind of crash?
[02:02] <mpt> unable to rmdir "/home/mpt/ubuntu/launchpad/,,merge-three-way.1129895862.16407.3/,,changeset/patches/lib" (Directory not empty)
[02:02] <mpt> baz: uncaught exception: -1:(I/O error)
[02:02] <SteveA_> seeing as it is baz
[02:02] <SteveA_> which we won't need from monday
[02:03] <SteveA_> i suggest getting your tree back into shape
[02:03] <mpt> sure, that's all I wanted instructions for
[02:03] <mpt> not to report a bug or anything
[02:04] <SteveA_> okay
[02:04] <mpt> Is it as simple as rm -r, then baz get?
[02:05] <kiko> mpt, try nuking the ,, directories
[02:05] <SteveA_> well...
[02:05] <kiko> and trying again
[02:05] <SteveA_> yeah
[02:05] <SteveA_> but
[02:05] <SteveA_> do baz status after nuking the directories
[02:05] <SteveA_> just to check it can still do that
[02:05] <mpt> ok
[02:05] <SteveA_> and hasn't got thoroughtly hosed
[02:05] <mpt> status: launchpad--bug-listings-love--0 is not imported yet.
[02:06] <SteveA_> i don't know what that means
[02:06] <kiko> weird
[02:06] <stub> I've done what mpt has done a few times and never been able to recover (although I don't recall that last message)
[02:06] <mpt> that's after deleting the ,,*
[02:07] <kiko> sheesh
[02:08] <mpt> dilys!
[02:08] <mpt> I've missed you
[02:09] <mpt> aha, RocketFuelSetup is (almost) all about bzr now
[02:12] <mpt> kiko: So, rm -rf ~/ubuntu/launchpad; baz get mpt@canonical.com/launchpad--bug-listings-love--0 ~/ubuntu/launchpad
[02:12] <mpt> Does that look right"?
[02:12] <kiko> mpt, well. do you really want to nuke sourcecode?
[02:12] <mpt> probably not
[02:14] <kiko> mpt, so mv sourcecode somewhere else
[02:14] <kiko> then baz get
[02:14] <kiko> them move your sourcecode back in
[02:15] <SteveA_> don't forget lib
[02:15] <SteveA_> in lib there are other trees too
[02:15] <kiko> SteveA_, oh. I thought that was no longer the case?
[02:15] <mpt> If sourcecode/ and lib/ are moved somewhere else, so baz get doesn't see them, how will that speed things up?
[02:15] <mpt> Won't baz get think "oh, they're not there, I'd better download them"?
[02:15] <SteveA_> kiko: it will be changed by monday
[02:15] <SteveA_> don't know what the current state is
[02:16] <SteveA_> mpt: you'd need to keep just the external trees in lib, not the canonical subdir or symlinks
[02:17] <mpt> why?
[02:28] <kiko> mpt, because baz isn't recursive.
[02:29] <SteveA_> bzr handles this better
[02:29] <SteveA_> of course ;-)
[02:31] <kiko> Keybuk, SteveA_, niemeyer, sabdfl: time
[02:31] <Keybuk> kiko: I'm waiting for the leader, apparently
[02:34] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=stevea]  Add dependency-aware scoring algorithm (patch-2705: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
[02:34] <carlos> see you later
[02:35] <cprov> carlos: see you
[02:36] <Keybuk> kiko: apparently I'm still waiting
[02:36] <Keybuk> the hold music is nice
[02:37] <kiko> Keybuk, so am I. so you like new age? I like nokia 770s
[02:38] <Keybuk> mine hasn't arrived yet
[02:38] <Keybuk> either today or tomorrow
[02:38] <kiko> cvd has mine
[02:39] <kiko> niemeyer, ping?
[02:39] <niemeyer> kiko: Pong!
[02:40] <kiko> niemeyer, are you not dialled in?
[02:40] <niemeyer> kiko: Nope..
[02:40] <niemeyer> kiko: Dialing
[02:40] <kiko> you're late
[02:42] <kiko> niemeyer, 00 21 44 1452 567 588
[02:43] <niemeyer> kiko: What's the "valid digits"?
[02:43] <kiko> niemeyer, don't you read email?
[02:44] <kiko> privmsgd it
[02:59] <egoleo> Launchpad could not import GPG key, the reason was:.Check if you published it correctly in the global key ring (using gpg --send-keys KEY) and that you add entered the fingerprint correctly (as produced by gpg --fingerprint YOU). Try later or cancel your request
[02:59] <egoleo> can someone help me
[02:59] <Kinnison> what is your key fingerprint?
[03:00] <egoleo> 578A 9920 F14C 2474 E126  4EEC 8156 5CE7 1445 0D1B
[03:00] <egoleo> that is it
[03:00] <Lathiat> i cant find that key on subkeys.pgp.net, 
[03:00] <Lathiat> how long ago did you --send-keys it?
[03:01] <Lathiat> it takes a while for them to sync around the keyserver
[03:01] <Lathiat> +s
[03:24] <egoleo> ok
[03:24] <egoleo> i just did it
[03:24] <kiko> egoleo, I'm going to update that message, cool
[03:25] <egoleo> ok
[03:31] <egoleo> how do u mean kiko
[03:41] <kiko> egoleo, the message launchpad gives you is a bit cryptic. I have improved it.
[03:49] <mpt> bah
[03:49] <mpt> Can I switch to bzr now? </whine>
[03:50] <kiko> Kinnison, I had an idea.
[03:51] <Kinnison> kiko: I have them all the time. Let me know if you ever work out how to get rid of them
[03:51] <Kinnison> ideas get me into all sorts of trouble
[03:52] <kiko> Kinnison, this one might be good. can I send you an updated gina.txt file today, to see what you think of it?
[03:52] <kiko> it will take you 30m-1h of reading through it to fully grasp all the little corner cases
[03:52] <kiko> you can reply to me by tomorrow morning my time
[03:53] <kiko> I won't ask for your code review
[03:53] <Kinnison> sure, send it over
[03:53] <kiko> thanks
[03:53] <Kinnison> I may have to review it tomorrow morning my-time
[03:53] <Kinnison> but I'll definitely make sure to take it with me to my parents' place
[03:53] <kiko> thanks.
[03:54] <kiko> just found a friggin failure
[03:54] <kiko> @#!$@!@!#$
[03:54] <stub> bradb: Do you happen to remember why we allow milestones to be linked to both a product and a distribution at the same time? Or did I write a bad constraint?
[03:55] <bradb> I think that would be a bad constraint.
[03:55] <kiko> stub, wow, gneuman asked about this yesterday
[03:55] <stub> kiko: He just asked me. My thinking is with brad
[03:55] <sivang> 'afternoon all
[03:56] <kiko> hmmm
[03:56] <kiko> hey sivang 
[03:56] <stub> We discussed this but the only write up is a photo of a whiteboard. I remember drawing diagrams in there, but don't remember the conversations ;)
[03:56] <mpt> The launchpad! It runs!
[04:04] <sivang> mpt: Where does it run?
[04:06] <mpt> sivang: on this computer
[04:06] <mpt> after major surgery
[04:06] <BjornT> mpt: how's the bug-listing-love landing going?
[04:07] <kiko> surgery
[04:07] <sivang> mpt: I hope it sustained more of his natural parts :)
[04:07] <kiko> stub, note that I /think/ that mark plans to redo our milestoning.
[04:07] <kiko> the current situation is a hack, we all know that
[04:07] <mpt> BjornT: The 6th landing attempt just failed
[04:08] <bradb> dear baz, you DON'T need 2G of revlib to cache b.b@c.c, mmkay?
[04:10] <BjornT> mpt: ok, let me know if i can do anything to help. i have a branch that i want to land after yours.
[04:10] <bradb> mpt: Do you run the tests with "python test.py -f canonical.launchpad" (after making sure you're synched with rf) and make sure there are no failures before submitting a merge request?
[04:11] <mpt> bradb: normally I just run the pagetests
[04:11] <kiko> BjornT, can you explain to me the technical difficulty in getting our tests to run a single story of pagetests?
[04:11] <mpt> that's what caught me in the 1st and 2nd attempts, because the failure was a doctest and I didn't realize
[04:11] <bradb> ah
[04:12] <kiko> mpt, type make check and go have lunch
[04:12] <kiko> when you come back, you'll have results
[04:12] <SteveA_> kiko: there isn't a great difficulty.  it just needs coding
[04:12] <kiko> or submit to pqm and wait
[04:12] <mpt> kiko: I know what the problem is, PQM told me
[04:12] <kiko> SteveA_, how much coding? I'd buy a DVD to the person who did it
[04:12] <kiko> SteveA_, it /really/ makes life slower for development
[04:12] <SteveA_> i just run all the pagetests
[04:12] <mpt> BjornT, kiko: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3425
[04:12] <SteveA_> which doesn't take too long
[04:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3425: Mysterious failure of pagetests/foaf/30-mergepeople.txt Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3425
[04:13] <SteveA_> i'd guess 3 hrs max coding
[04:13] <kiko> SteveA_, a DVD of /your/ choice
[04:13] <SteveA_> bradb: did you run the pagetests instead?
[04:13] <kiko> SteveA_, they take 25 minutes here
[04:13] <bradb> SteveA: no, make check
[04:13] <SteveA_> kiko: i know about your clandestine connections to the porn film industry...
[04:14] <SteveA_> bradb: well, there you go
[04:14] <SteveA_> you have the ability already to run all page tests
[04:14] <kiko> SteveA_, 25 minutes. think about it.
[04:14] <SteveA_> kiko: i accept that point
[04:14] <kiko> multiply by 4 * 5 per day. for 3h + a DVD.
[04:15] <mpt> You could watch the DVD while waiting for the tests to run!
[04:15] <stub> I think the bounties system only accepts $US estimates. There is no support for DVDs
[04:15] <SteveA_> whatever, *i* wont' be doing it today... specday ate my code
[04:16] <kiko> stub, I can change that, just watch me
[04:16] <bradb> SteveA: Unless I'm missing something, the README.txt in pagetests/ seems to refer to a binary "pagetests" that doesn't exist.
[04:17] <stub> kiko: I would suggest a quick and dirty hack to test_pages.py, where it only builds a single story if an environment ariable is set. Should only take 5 minutes, plus PQM landing time.
[04:17] <SteveA_> bradb: you know how to run just the pagetests don't you?
[04:18] <bradb> SteveA: Like most people here, no, I don't. :)
[04:18] <SteveA_> stub: passing in --story=name should be just a bit longer
[04:18] <SteveA_> bradb: i told you it repeatedly on irc
[04:18] <SteveA_> you ran them
[04:18] <bradb> We still get people asking how to run *one* test :)
[04:19] <mpt> oh, for smeg's sake
[04:19] <mpt> I just got the same error
[04:19] <mpt> so my tree is hosed again
[04:25] <ddaa> mpt: humbly suggesting you go write specs and come back on monday.
[04:26] <ddaa> no point on pulling your hair out on baz today
[04:26] <kiko-fud> he probably has changes in that tree he doesn't want to lose
[04:26] <bradb> mpt knows that more conflicts await him!
[04:27] <bradb> my changes /shouldn't/ conflict with mpt's, mind. I'm mostly writing Python code to display feedback in the UI.
[04:29] <Kinnison> Umm, I'm getting a ForbiddenAttribute error
[04:29] <Kinnison> but the attribute in question is in the interface
[04:30] <Kinnison> And the interface is in the zcml
[04:30] <kiko-fud> read the traceback carefully
[04:30] <Kinnison> anyone have any ideas?
[04:30] <mpt> ddaa: yeah, I was thinking about that, except I'm kinda blocking Bjorn
[04:30] <mpt> BjornT: Perhaps you could branch off my branch to fix the mass editing?
[04:31] <SteveA_> Kinnison: paste the traceback
[04:31] <BjornT> mpt: actually, we could do like this. i merge your branch into mine, and land both.
[04:31] <kiko-fud> BjornT, please, do that.
[04:31] <Kinnison> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filedNiJ11.html
[04:31] <SteveA_> kiko-fud: i think we should get some time with the infrastructure team to improve test infrastructure in general, pair programming at ubz
[04:32] <bradb> Kinnison: who's allowed to edit that attrib?
[04:32] <mpt> BjornT: That's kinda what I meant, though I would suggest branching instead otherwise you'll have a lot of merge conflicts
[04:32] <SteveA_> Kinnison: what permission does that attribute have?
[04:32] <kiko-fud> SteveA_, sounds good.
[04:32] <Kinnison>     status = Int(
[04:32] <Kinnison>             title=_("Queue status"), required=True, readonly=False,
[04:32] <Kinnison>             )
[04:33] <Kinnison> bradb: I don't understand your question
[04:33] <Kinnison> SteveA_: that's all I know ^^
[04:34] <BjornT> mpt: our branches already have conflicts, that's why i was waiting for you to land yours, so i would be the one to resolve the conflicts.
[04:34] <SteveA_> Kinnison:  in the zcml
[04:34] <Kinnison>     <content class="canonical.launchpad.database.DistroReleaseQueue">
[04:34] <Kinnison>         <allow interface="canonical.launchpad.interfaces.IDistroReleaseQueue" />
[04:34] <SteveA_> where is the interface mentioned... 
[04:34] <bradb> btw, are the conferences running on time this morning?
[04:34] <Kinnison>     </content>
[04:34] <SteveA_> yeah, there
[04:34] <SteveA_> bradb: calls, yes
[04:34] <bradb> ok
[04:34] <SteveA_> and is 'status' from that interface?
[04:35] <Kinnison> yep
[04:35] <Kinnison> it's on IDistroReleaseQueue
[04:35] <Kinnison> and DistroReleaseQueue implements(IDistroReleaseQueue)
[04:35] <SteveA_> ah
[04:35] <SteveA_> you're setting it
[04:35] <SteveA_> what permission do you want to protect setting that attribute?
[04:36] <Kinnison> I haven't got a clue
[04:36] <SteveA_> what code needs to set it?
[04:36] <Kinnison> the queued
[04:36] <SteveA_> a cron script
[04:36] <SteveA_> or deamon then
[04:36] <Kinnison> yes
[04:36] <SteveA_> so, protect it with launchpad.Admin
[04:36] <SteveA_> like this
[04:36] <Kinnison> Umm, what happens if later we want to put it in the webapp too?
[04:36] <mpt> ok, see y'all Monday for hot bzr action
[04:36] <Kinnison> and have distro admins be able to edit it?
[04:37] <Kinnison> (this is a *VERY* likely scenario)
[04:37] <SteveA_>   <require permission='launchpad.Admin' set_attributes='status' />
[04:37] <SteveA_> at that point, we'll need to use an appropriate permission for that
[04:37] <SteveA_> maybe launchpad.Admin, maybe launchpad.Edit
[04:37] <SteveA_> or maybe i'll have removed permissions entirely by then... depending when it is
[04:37] <Kinnison> urgh
[04:38] <SteveA_> to make it run in a cron script or daemon
[04:38] <Kinnison> okay, so for now it's only changed in tests and the scripts on appservers
[04:38] <SteveA_> you just need it to have *some* permission
[04:38] <SteveA_> it ought to work like that in your cronscript, but might still fail in your doctest
[04:38] <SteveA_> because they're running with different security policies
[04:38] <Kinnison> oh
[04:38] <Kinnison> the cronscript works, yes
[04:39] <SteveA_> sorry -- cruft alert
[04:39] <Kinnison> which is nice
[04:39] <egoleo> kiko
[04:39] <egoleo> my thing is still not updated
[04:39] <egoleo> is still not working
[04:39] <SteveA_> Kinnison: you'd need to add a security adapter class for IDistroReleaseQueue and permission launchpad.Admin
[04:39] <egoleo> key fingerprint
[04:39] <Kinnison> SteveA_: urgh, how do I do that?
[04:39] <SteveA_> that says anonymous is allowed to or something... erg... not nice, just for the purposes of testing
[04:39] <SteveA_> so instead
[04:39] <Kinnison> all I want to do is test it
[04:39] <SteveA_> in the test
[04:40] <SteveA_> you should remove its security proxy
[04:40] <Kinnison> uhm
[04:40] <egoleo> Launchpad could not import GPG key, the reason was:.Check if you published it correctly in the global key ring (using gpg --send-keys KEY) and that you add entered the fingerprint correctly (as produced by gpg --fingerprint YOU). Try later or cancel your request.
[04:40] <egoleo> any help
[04:40] <Kinnison> won't that ruin the purpose of the test?
[04:40] <SteveA_> i think something like  from zope.security.proxy import removeSecurityProxy
[04:40] <SteveA_> if you grep for 'naked' in the launchpad source code, you'll find an example
[04:41] <SteveA_> this will be easier once i've refactored the security stuff, as needed for some other things
[04:41] <Kinnison> if I'm gonna have to remove the proxy I may as well get the object directly instead of through the utilities
[04:41] <SteveA_> yes and no
[04:41] <SteveA_> yes, in one way
[04:41] <SteveA_> no because then we're left with wanting to re-do it later when the security works appropriately
[04:41] <SteveA_> but anyway, do what you need to do now
[04:42] <SteveA_> i'm glad you're putting together tests
[04:42] <egoleo> Launchpad could not import GPG key, the reason was:.Check if you published it correctly in the global key ring (using gpg --send-keys KEY) and that you add entered the fingerprint correctly (as produced by gpg --fingerprint YOU). Try later or cancel your request.
[04:43] <Kinnison> You can put that on my next review. "Seems more positively disposed towards actually testing his goddamned code" :-)
[04:43] <Kinnison> I assume the next review is around april time?
[04:45] <egoleo> Launchpad could not import GPG key, the reason was:.Check if you published it correctly in the global key ring (using gpg --send-keys KEY) and that you add entered the fingerprint correctly (as produced by gpg --fingerprint YOU). Try later or cancel your request.
[04:47] <SteveA_> Kinnison: i think there's a small review coming up in the next couple of months
[04:47] <SteveA_> and a full review next year
[04:49] <Kinnison> SteveA_: I remove the security proxies at as small a granularity as the tests will allow for now
[04:49] <Kinnison> SteveA_: and I've added an XXX and am just filing a bug
[04:50] <SteveA_> okay, that's great
[04:50] <SteveA_> thanks
[04:50] <Kinnison> woo \o/.
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3456: upload-and-queue (upstream) - queue doctest removes security proxies Fix req. for: launchpad-upload-and-queue (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3456
[04:50] <ddaa> I have a little dbschema problem that needs fixing urgently (need it for some code to be done before UBZ)
[04:51] <Kinnison> ddaa: What's up?
[04:51] <ddaa> Kinnison: I did not mean dbschema, but db schema :)
[04:51] <Kinnison> ddaa: Oh, database schema
[04:51] <ddaa> Here's the problem: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/GhostRevisions
[04:53] <ddaa> In a nutshell, I want to be able to say "i know this revision id is an ancestor of that revision, but I know nothing more about it", and
[04:53] <SteveA_> sabdfl: feature for the spec tracker: when you get a spec not found, render a custom 404 page that gives you a one click option to create that spec
[04:53] <SteveA_> that way, people need to enter the spec url once only ,in the wiki page.  click it, register it. done.
[04:54] <ddaa> be able to fill in the revision details if I ever find it at a later time, but without ever doing UPDATE on the Revision table, and without loosening the non-NULL constraints there.
[04:54] <ddaa> I sort of guess I might get away with another level of indirection, but that would suck.
[04:55] <ddaa> IOW, I want polymorphism...
[04:56] <SteveA_> bug 3457
[04:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3457: spec tracker should have 404 page that lets you make new spec Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3457
[04:56] <rjwittams> I am getting "Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication." when trying to post a bug in malone. I am logged in. 
[04:57] <ddaa> Mh... maybe I could get away with adding Revision.ghost boolean, and telling sqlobject to refuse doing UPDATE on a Revision where the ghost is False.
[04:57] <ddaa> SteveA_: do you think that can be done?
[04:58] <SteveA_> ddaa: you can write the logic for that in sqlobject, sure
[04:58] <SteveA_> hi rjwittams 
[04:58] <bradb> SteveA, kiko-fud, BjornT, jbailey: conf time for us?
[04:58] <bradb> and sabdfl, of course
[04:58] <ddaa> SteveA_: got a pointer to get me going, this "refuse to update if FOO" logic is new to me...
[04:58] <SteveA_> rjwittams:  if you go back to the previous page, and shift+reload it, and try again, same problem or not?
[04:59] <SteveA_> ddaa: write a method.  use the method to do updates... ?
[04:59] <ddaa> SteveA_: but then I want to prevent other code from being careless and directly setting attributes.
[04:59] <rjwittams> SteveA_: I tried a few times. 
[05:00] <SteveA_> rjwittams: sorry that i can't look into this right now.  got a phone conference call about to start
[05:00] <SteveA_> ddaa: use your interface
[05:01] <ddaa> SteveA_: the code that updates this tables is zopeless
[05:01] <SteveA_> so
[05:01] <bradb> "The leeduh has not yet arrived. Please stuhned by."
[05:02] <ddaa> well... I wrote the code to bypass getUtility because i could not get it to work in the zopeless importd environment...
[05:02] <ddaa> sigh
[05:02] <ddaa> Ignorance sucks.
[05:02] <rjwittams> SteveA_: is there somewhere else to report the bug? This kind of thing makes people just give up. 
[05:02] <SteveA_> ddaa: write the interface to not allow access to the 'direct' attributes
[05:03] <SteveA_> BjornT: ping
[05:03] <SteveA_> jbailey: ping
[05:03] <BjornT> SteveA_: pong, i'm calling now
[05:03] <jbailey> SteveA_: Yes? =)
[05:03] <rjwittams> SteveA_: Oh, it finally worked. 
[05:03] <kiko-fud> Kinnison, ping
[05:03] <SteveA_> rjwittams: cool
[05:03] <ddaa> SteveA_: I tell you I did not manage to use the interface plumbing there...
[05:03] <Kinnison> kiko-fud: yo
[05:03] <SteveA_> please file a bug on it
[05:04] <ddaa> nevermind
[05:04] <SteveA_> rjwittams: most error pages have an email address you can report bugs to
[05:04] <SteveA_> rjwittams: it is a bug that this page doesn't do so
[05:04] <ddaa> I'll just do make it unsafe
[05:04] <kiko-fud> Kinnison, can I get a phone call with you in about 45m
[05:04] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.37: Cherry pick steve.alexander@canonical.com/launchpad--trivial--1 (patch-5: steve.alexander@canonical.com, stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
[05:04] <rjwittams> rjwittams: This one seemed to just be a single text line with that error. Odd. 
[05:04] <SteveA_> thanks stub
[05:04] <SteveA_> rjwittams: yes.  that's a bug we should fix
[05:05] <SteveA_> actually, i'll file that bug
[05:05] <ddaa> Thanks for bearing with me. I got an idea to do it in some completely different way to avoid the trouble :)
[05:06] <Kinnison> kiko-fud: erm, I was planning on packing to leave before my spec meeting
[05:06] <Kinnison> kiko-fud: how long will the call take?
[05:06] <kiko-fud> it's a gina issue
[05:06] <Kinnison> sooner rather than later is better for me
[05:06] <kiko-fud> i'm on the phone now though :-(
[05:07] <Kinnison> 16:45 if it'll be no more than a 15m call is fine
[05:08] <SteveA_> bug 3459
[05:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3459: 'application error, POSTing...' error needs to be a proper error page Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3459
[05:08] <SteveA_> rjwittams: this is the bug about that error page.  i've accepted it.
[05:08] <kiko-fud> thanks steve
[05:18] <kiko-fud> Kinnison, UTC?
[05:19] <Kinnison> kiko-fud: local time
[05:19] <Kinnison> kiko-fud: I.E. ring me in 25 minutes
[05:23] <Kinnison> woohoo!
[05:28] <carlos> Kinnison, congratulations!
[05:29] <Kinnison> carlos: how's that rosetta thing coming along?
[05:30] <carlos> Kinnison, busy preparing the specs session for today but I have the whole weekend, don't worry
[05:30] <Kinnison> carlos: coolio
[05:31] <carlos> kiko, did you added any Rosetta spec to launchpad already?
[05:35] <kiko> nope
[05:41] <Kinnison> kiko: can I except a call in 5m?
[05:41] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=stub,mpt (email template)]  add cron script that sends out reminders regarding answered support questions. (patch-2706: bjorn.tillenius@canonical.com)
[05:42] <kiko> I'll try
[05:43] <silbs> hi guys
[05:43] <kiko> hi
[05:43] <silbs> so, for UBZ elmo is setting up a server to bring with us that will have a complete copy of the wiki
[05:43] <silbs> (in case of connectivity issues, etc)
[05:43] <kiko> yeah
[05:43] <silbs> given the specs in LP, does that server have to have a copy of the LP produciton db??
[05:43] <SteveA_> arg
[05:44] <SteveA_> that will be really hard to sort out...
[05:44] <kiko> ...
[05:44] <silbs> arg is exactly what I was thinking...
[05:44] <kiko> *args
[05:44] <silbs> and why I brought the issue to the attention of the experts
[05:44] <Kinnison> If connectivity sucks, we're gonna have so many more issues than just the wiki
[05:44] <SteveA_> unless we smash the spec table for launchpad / ubuntu on our return...
[05:44] <kiko> uhm
[05:44] <kiko> SteveA_, I got dropped
[05:44] <kiko> from the confcall
[05:44] <SteveA_> ok
[05:44] <kiko> SteveA_, plus, I have a call with Kinnison 
[05:45] <kiko> it's an urgent gina issue
[05:45] <SteveA_> ok, go for it
[05:45] <kiko> can I make that call and then rejoin?
[05:45] <kiko> thanks
[05:45] <SteveA_> yes
[05:45] <SteveA_> i'll ping you if questions
[05:45] <carlos> kiko, I'm doing it atm
[05:45] <kiko> thanks
[05:45] <carlos> so don't worry about that
[05:46] <carlos> btw, the small icon that should appear near our name if you upload a file does not appear at the specs page. I only see the default one there
[05:46] <carlos> The "Emblem"
[05:52] <kiko> weird
[06:00] <SteveA_> emblems should be for teams only
[06:00] <Kinnison> I thought emblems always replaced team icons everywhere
[06:00] <kiko> because the sab loves portlets :)
[06:01] <Kinnison> they make little/no sense in the portlet though
[06:03] <SteveA_> Kinnison, cprov: call in 27 mins
[06:03] <Kinnison> SteveA_: *nod*
[06:03] <cprov> SteveA_: right
[06:03] <Kinnison> SteveA_: should we ring in at 17:30 or a little before?
[06:05] <SteveA_> ring dead on
[06:05] <Kinnison> right
[06:06] <sivang> there a developers meetin gnow?
[06:07] <kiko> sivang, no, worse: phone calls :-P
[06:07] <sivang> ah ok :)
[06:07] <kiko> I guess I should brush my teeth so I don't smell funny
[06:07] <Kinnison> poor kiko will have to hear my dulcet tones
[06:07] <sivang> in a phone call? :)
[06:08] <kiko> sivang, these are special nuclear phones
[06:08] <kiko> russian technology
[06:08] <sivang> heheh
[06:08] <SteveA_> what package is 'mail' in?
[06:08] <SteveA_> i need it to run submit-merge
[06:08] <kiko> you don't want to talk about that in israel, sivang 
[06:09] <Kinnison> SteveA_: Umm, mailx ?
[06:09] <Kinnison> yep, mailx
[06:09] <sivang> kiko: lol, stop it :)
[06:09] <SteveA_> ta
[06:09] <SteveA_> i'll add it to the dependencies page
[06:10] <Kinnison> SteveA_: better yet, add a python script to rocketfuel to do SMTP
[06:10] <kiko> dude
[06:11] <kiko> Kinnison, wasn't there a way to get a longer name than SSPPH?
[06:11] <kiko> Kinnison, can you take a phone call now?
[06:11] <SteveA_> Kinnison: i think not
[06:11] <Kinnison> SteveA_: :-(
[06:11] <Kinnison> kiko: sure
[06:11] <SteveA_> Kinnison: well... i dunno... i like to be able to queue things up when i'm offline
[06:11] <SteveA_> so do you mean smtp to localhost?
[06:12] <SteveA_> if so, yay
[06:12] <Kinnison> SteveA_: then you'd best add an MTA to the deps
[06:12] <SteveA_> damn
[06:12] <SteveA_> it won't allow me to cancel its installatation!
[06:14] <SteveA_> and bugzilla is being horrid to me
[06:16] <bradb> ddaa: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~dsilvers/paste/file32O561.html -- is there a quick way to pinpoint where the (seemingly likely) revlib or arch cache corruption is?
[06:16] <bradb> I'd rather not apply 133 revisions all over again.
[06:17] <ddaa> not that I know of
[06:18] <ddaa> but a tar error is more likely something else
[06:18] <ddaa> mh...
[06:18] <ddaa> gzip error
[06:18] <bradb> Yup
[06:18] <bradb> Last time I had the exact same thing, and it appeared to be cache/revlib corruption.
[06:19] <ddaa> I fail to see how a cache/revlib problem would cause gzip to fail...
[06:19] <ddaa> I'd rather attribute that to bad local mirror, network problem, or hardware problem
[06:19] <bradb> ddaa: maybe it didn't finish downloading the tarball when I Ctrl-C'd or ran out of disk space?
[06:19] <ddaa> I think that would cause something else to fail
[06:20] <ddaa> like... I don't know, were you runnin rsync on roketfuel at the same time?
[06:20] <bradb> Last time I had this exactly same problem, spent a lot of time narrowing down exactly which patch it was that caused the problem, and then removed the relevant patch from the arch cache and my revlib, and all went smoothly after that.
[06:21] <bradb> ddaa: no :)
[06:21] <ddaa> patch in the arch cache?
[06:21] <ddaa> never seen that...
[06:21] <ddaa> only seen ancestry information there...
[06:21] <bradb> *shrug* I understand nothing about the arch cache. I removed something in the arch cache though.
[06:22] <ddaa> I'd be more inclined to think that you are having the same exact problem you had before
[06:22] <bradb> Me too
[06:22] <ddaa> frankly, I'll tell you two things
[06:22] <bradb> Last time it was caused (seemingly) by the fact that I ran out of disk space near the end of a commit ;)
[06:23] <ddaa> That should not cause gzip error in the builder...
[06:23] <carlos> who is OndejSur ?
[06:23] <kiko> Kinnison, one more problem
[06:23] <Kinnison> kiko: hurrah
[06:23] <carlos> is he a member of the launchpad development team?
[06:23] <ddaa> what the gzip error means here is that there's a bad compressed changeset somewhere
[06:24] <ddaa> why and how it got bad, and how serious that is, i have no idea
[06:24] <kiko> Kinnison, if a package doesn't change over releases but is moved from one component to another, boom.
[06:24] <ddaa> bradb: so the two things I want to tell you
[06:24] <Kinnison> kiko: boom?
[06:24] <kiko> Kinnison, I don't think that will happen with pockets
[06:24] <Kinnison> kiko: shouldn't be boom
[06:24] <ddaa> 1. I have no clue how to fix your problem
[06:24] <Kinnison> kiko: it's just a different publishing record
[06:25] <ddaa> 2. I really cannot be bothered to pretzel my brain about baz issues anymore, since the switch to bzr is next week
[06:25] <bradb> ddaa: ok, fair enough. just one small question then: is it safe to remove .arch-cache/archives/rocketfuel@canonical.com?
[06:26] <ddaa> bradb: might cause unbearable slowness once (thought I think there's some stuff to avoid it), but it's perfectly safe
[06:27] <bradb> thanks, i'll try that. other than that, it's all about monday.
[06:30] <bradb> Hm, it's at about this time that I'm really wishing specs were priority null by default
[06:31] <SteveA_> null meaning 'unassigned' ?
[06:31] <bradb> SteveA: null priority, i.e. like bugtask.priority is null by default, so as not to mislead you into thinking you've prioritized it at all.
[06:32] <kiko> yep
[06:56] <SteveA_> bradb: just replied, after talking with mark on the phone
[06:56] <SteveA_> bradb: it is a nice idea, but there are other things to consider there
[06:56] <carlos> kiko, all Rosetta specs set as Braindump and draft are now at https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+specs
[06:57] <carlos> kiko, SteveA, sabdfl I suppose we don't need the ones already Approved or Implemented for the meeting, right?
[06:57] <bradb> SteveA: Such as?
[06:57] <bradb> I was mainly considering the fact that my life is much more painful due to the way it currently works.
[06:58] <kiko> carlos, no, but it would be nice to have them
[06:59] <carlos> kiko, I know, but I need to prepare the meeting so I will add them later or another day
[06:59] <kiko> sure
[07:00] <carlos> I think it's a bit weird that the only easy way I have to handle Rosetta specs "easily" is from my personal +specs page to filter out the specs that I don't care about....
[07:32] <Kinnison> ciao all
[07:33] <sivang> Kinnison: bye 
[07:34] <sivang> carlos: we should have a way for a launchpad person to tag specs that are interested to him and then be able to view only "Specs interesting to me"
[07:35] <sivang> or call it "My Specs"
[07:35] <carlos> Kinnison, bye
[07:35] <carlos> sivang, that exists
[07:35] <carlos> sivang, you can subscribe to specs
[07:35] <Kinnison> sabdfl: mail sent to cvd and edward
[07:35] <sivang> carlos: Doh! right :)
[07:36] <carlos> and then visit, for instance, https://launchpad.net/people/carlos/+subscribedspecs
[07:36] <sabdfl> cheers Kinnison
[07:40] <SteveA_> we need a spec tracker spec
[07:41] <SteveA_> to collect these comments in
[07:41] <kiko> definitely
[07:43] <SteveA_> maybe there is one already...
[07:43] <kiko> yeah right
[07:44] <sivang> SteveA_: to spec furhter improvments etc?
[07:44] <SteveA_> sivang: yes
[07:45] <SteveA_> and also to document what it is all about
[07:45] <SteveA_> so that there's a place people can go to learn the whys and wherefores
[07:46] <sivang> SteveA_: I see, well paste the link here if you come across it :)
[07:49] <SteveA_> oh here it is https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SpecTracker
[07:49] <kiko> sabdfl, there was nothing in your gina-improvements branch
[07:50] <SteveA_> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/specification-tracker
[07:59] <carlos> SteveA, kiko, sabdfl should I call now to the number Claire gave me?
[08:00] <kiko> yes
[08:01] <carlos> ok
[08:01] <SteveA_> i'm on there
[08:03] <sivang> I have reported a couple of bugs while doing the mass spec registering yesterday and the day before, do anybody think they can count as use cases in the spec that may be worth implementing ? #3375, #3436, #3248
[08:11] <jordi> this is fucking incredible
[08:11] <jordi> not only I don't have internet at home
[08:11] <jordi> The internet access I was using at my mother's house has been cancelled
[08:13] <kiko> heh
[08:13] <kiko> sivang, pester SteveA_ about that, sounds good
[08:13] <jordi> now I'm at my father's, which is somewhat away from Valencia.
[08:14] <SteveA_> bug 3375
[08:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3375: No way to continue adding specs after adding a previous one. Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3375
[08:14] <SteveA_> bug 3436
[08:14] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[08:14] <SteveA_> bug 3428
[08:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3428: Cross platform failure Fix req. for: ltsp (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3428
[08:15] <SteveA_> bug 3459
[08:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3459: 'application error, POSTing...' error needs to be a proper error page Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3459
[08:15] <SteveA_> bug 3457
[08:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3457: spec tracker should have 404 page that lets you make new spec Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3457
[08:16] <SteveA_> sivang: you can list bugs 3375, 3436, 3248 and 3457 on the spec tracker spec
[08:16] <SteveA_> is bug 3436 a security-related one?
[08:16] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[08:16] <sivang> SteveA_: let's talk later, ping me up :)
[08:17] <SteveA_> sivang: would like to, but i'm on calls all night long
[08:17] <sivang> SteveA_: ok, monday ?
[08:17] <sivang> or sunday :) , or tommorow. I will be available
[08:17] <sivang> 3436 was somehow made private,
[08:17] <sivang> duonno why
[08:18] <sivang> (I didn't tag it as a secret bug)
[08:20] <SteveA_> bug 3248
[08:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3248: SupportTracker should have the notion of "Tracks" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3248
[08:21] <SteveA_> bug 3436
[08:21] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[08:21] <sivang> SteveA_: I myself cannot access it, I think it was something about adding a specname that already existed
[08:22] <SteveA_> bug 3436
[08:22] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[08:22] <SteveA_> bradb: interesting malone bug here
[08:24] <SteveA_> BjornT_: also ^^^
[08:24] <SteveA_> bug 3436 is not private
[08:24] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[08:24] <SteveA_> but inaccessible to Ubugtu 
[08:24] <sivang> SteveA_: I'm getting "no permission" error when trying to view it
[08:25] <SteveA_> sivang: okay
[08:25] <SteveA_> sivang: i'll leave it as it is, so that brad or BjornT_ can diagnose the problem
[08:25] <sivang> SteveA_: ok, should I open a bug about it?
[08:26] <SteveA_> sure
[08:26] <sivang> okay
[08:30] <sivang> bradb: what you're email in launchpad to assign you a bug?
[08:31] <bradb> At first instinct, that's a Ubugtu bug, not a Malone bug
[08:31] <bradb> s/a/an/
[08:31] <bradb> Probably because the null bugtask page returns a 404, though a useful page is presented to the user.
[08:32] <sivang> bradb: what does a null bugtask means?
[08:32] <kiko> bradb, a 404?!
[08:32] <SteveA_> sivan gets an error going to that bug
[08:32] <bradb> sivang: it comes from the null object pattern. i.e. being able to represent an object when you don't have one.
[08:32] <sivang> bradb: ah
[08:32] <SteveA_> kiko: null bugtasks give you a 404
[08:32] <bradb> kiko: yeah, that's what SteveA and mpt told me to do
[08:32] <SteveA_> so you don't get them in history / bookmarks
[08:32] <SteveA_> but this seems to be a different bug
[08:33] <SteveA_> bradb: that bug, it is a real bug in that context
[08:33] <sivang> bradb: I was able to access it before
[08:33] <SteveA_> bradb: and sivan can't access it
[08:33] <bradb> sivang: what URL are you referring to, exactly?
[08:34] <bradb> sivang: so, to clarify in human terms a null object allows us to present a page to you about bug #42 on Launchpad, even though it may not have yet been directly reported on Launchpad (instead giving you a button that says "Yes, I want to report this on Launchpad", etc.)
[08:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #42: Bug description listed in task is not the correct description Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/42
[08:35] <sivang> bradb: I listed all the bugs I reported, then tried to click it following : https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3436
[08:35] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[08:36] <sivang> bradb: I see then. But still this is a real bugreport :)
[08:36] <bradb> oh right, darn
[08:37] <bradb> there's a dup of that bug that is marked private, shown on that bug page
[08:37] <sivang> uh-ha :)
[08:37] <bradb> i meant to have fixed this kind of error from happening, but i perhaps this page tries to access an attribute that i haven't made public for priv bugs
[08:38] <sivang> bradb: I wonder why that bug would have been kade unpublic in the first place , then.
[08:40] <jordi> carlos?
[08:41] <jordi> carlos: are we doing a big import today? Files are taking a while to appear.
[08:42] <carlos> don't think so
[08:43] <jordi> hmm
[08:43] <jordi> two tiny imports I've done don't appear
[08:43] <jordi> net6 and obby
[08:43] <sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebaker/+translations
[08:43] <sabdfl> jordi's been busy :-)
[08:45] <jordi> heh
[08:45] <jordi> a needed update for lliurex, including Spanish, so why not :)
[08:45] <jordi> gnomebaker needs language cleanup
[08:45] <bradb> sivang: the private bug has traceback info in it, which makes some people decide to mark it private
[08:45] <jordi> There's a lot of Foo (Country) pots that should be removed as soon as possible
[08:45] <sivang> bradb: ah , I see. UNderstood
[08:46] <SteveA_> bradb: can you make sivang a subscriber to the private bug?
[08:47] <bradb> sure
[08:47] <SteveA_> sivang: then, you'll be able to see it
[08:47] <jordi> right now, the feature to see the translation of a string in any of your preferred languages is not enabled, is it?
[08:48] <sivang> SteveA_: thanks
[08:49] <jordi> sabdfl: do you know why this was removed (seeing French strings as reference when translating to Catlaan)
[08:49] <bradb> sivang: done
[08:50] <sivang> lol
[08:51] <sivang> bradb: btw, that window needs ALOT of improvment. it's usable, but has it's amount of pain :)
[08:51] <sivang> should be faster to search people etc, maybe cache some of the results and let user choose them client side
[08:52] <bradb> sivang: I've been hoping for a Google Suggest widget for quite a while now, but we haven't seen much movement on that end, unfortunately.
[08:53] <SteveA_> bradb: on the ubz list
[08:53] <bradb> Hm, it looks like null bugtasks *aren't* returning 404's.
[08:53] <SteveA_> no test?
[08:54] <sivang> bradb: ah, that's the twisted/ajax thingy?
[08:54] <bradb> or an incorrect test
[08:54] <bradb> sivang: yeah :)
[08:56] <bradb> SteveA: hm, the tests look like this:
[08:56] <bradb> >>> check("/products/netapplet/+bug/1")
[08:56] <bradb> >>> check_not_found("/products/netapplet/+bug/1/+viewstatus")
[08:56] <bradb> >>> check_not_found("/products/netapplet/+bug/1/+editstatus")
[08:56] <bradb> (i.e. for testing when a bug is not yet reported on a context)
[09:04] <SteveA_> looks right
[09:04] <SteveA_> write a 'manual' 404 page test
[09:04] <SteveA_> to check it out
[09:06] <bradb> SteveA_: does it look right though? i thought you wanted: /products/netapplet/+bug/1 to return a 404 as well (i.e. that's the page that provides the button to easy-file the bug)
[09:06] <SteveA_> mpt: hi
[09:07] <sivang> may I as what /netapplet/ means in the path?
[09:08] <mpt> hi SteveA_, just got back from class
[09:08] <kiko> yo SteveA_ you dropper
[09:08] <bradb> sivang: it's a Product.name
[09:09] <bradb> so, /products/firefox/+bug/1, /products/bazaar/+bug/1, etc.
[09:32] <kiko> Kinnison?
[09:33] <sivang> Kinnison: I think he left for somewhere dunno
[09:33] <kiko> yeah
[09:33] <kiko> I think so too
[09:33] <kiko> that was a last desperate measure
[09:37] <sivang> bradb: how do you know/make netapplet not have a bug #1 ?
[09:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1
[09:38] <bradb> sivang: Well, it's either reported in netapplet or it isn't, but you can always view bug #1 in the context of netapplet.
[09:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1
[09:38] <bradb> more generally, you can always view the context of any bug in any context
[09:39] <carlos> jordi, around?
[09:39] <bradb> er, s/the context of//
[09:40] <sivang> bradb: so for the sake of testing, you will change it when bug 1 will become exisiting for netapplet?
[09:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1
[09:40] <mpt> sivang: In other words, netapplet already doesn't have a bug 1. But if it was useful to do so, you could ask for that bug to be fixed in netapplet specifically, and one of the ways of doing that would be by hacking the URL.
[09:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share Fix req. for: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1
[09:41] <sivang> bradb: what the context of bugs in the path of /malone/bugs/... ? 
[09:41] <bradb> sivang: that redirects to the first context it finds
[09:42] <SteveA_> bug 0
[09:42] <Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #0: Bug does not exist
[09:44] <zyga> bug latest
[09:44] <zyga> (this should display bug with highest id)
[09:44] <zyga> :D
[09:47] <sivang> zyga: tell Seveas , I think he's the Ubugtu hacker :)
[09:48] <Seveas> zyga, why would it be useful?
[09:51] <kiko> SteveA_, I'm buzzing mpt back in
[09:51] <kiko> one moment
[09:52] <SteveA_> mpt: ???
[09:54] <mpt> SteveA_: Sorry, I was just trying to find out what to dial before the country code
[09:54] <zyga> Seveas: I've just filed a bug about this thing being missing
[09:54] <zyga> Seveas: it;s the latest bug
[09:54] <zyga> ;-)
[09:54] <zyga> just kidding thoug (no bug)
[09:54] <zyga> I think it could be usefull when someone is talking about a just-filed bug
[09:55] <Seveas> I doubt it (and it would not be too easy given malones crappy interface for automation
[09:55] <sivang> mpt: is MaloneSupportINtegration part of the sprint agenda for launchpad already ?
[09:56] <zyga> Seveas: how does ubugtu work ATM?
[09:56] <zyga> Seveas: can id do sql queries?
[09:56] <Seveas> no
[09:56] <Seveas> it parses malone html
[09:56] <zyga> Arghhh
[09:56] <Seveas> (or bugzilla xml, which is MUCH nicer ;))
[09:57] <zyga> parsing html is like getting dust off the desert
[09:57] <Seveas> I can't access the database directly (for a good reason, i'm no launchpad dev or canonical employee :)) so it's the only option since malone has no xml interface yet
[09:57] <sivang> Malone is going to have XML-RPC support schduled for discussion on UBZ, by bradb  and jbailey 
[09:58] <Seveas> I know, can't wait for it to become a reality :)
[09:58] <bradb> That was the one spec I added yesterday but forgot to mention in the conf call earlier.
[09:58] <sivang> going to get something to eat, bbl
[09:58] <bradb> Hopefully that is a fairly high priority at UBZ
[10:02] <zyga> Seveas: what is Ubugtu written in?
[10:02] <Seveas> python
[10:02] <zyga> cool
[10:02] <zyga> can I see the source code?
[10:02] <Seveas> it's a supybot, I merely enhanced the bugzilla plugin to spak malone-ish
[10:02] <zyga> I've always wanted to know how that stuff works
[10:03] <Seveas> No, I'm too ashamed of it :) You can get the supybot code (includes the normal plugin) though with apt-get
[10:03] <Seveas> I'm still working on a neat rewrite of my malone hacks
[10:04] <zyga> :)
[10:04] <zyga> okay
[10:04] <zyga> Seveas: oh come on
[10:04] <zyga> please?
[10:04] <Seveas> If you promise not to laugh ;)
[10:04] <zyga> I'll show you my code if you want to laugh
[10:05] <Seveas> The standard bugzilla code is good enough to look at though
[10:05] <Seveas> I just added lots of special cases (if bz == 'malone': do something diffrent)
[10:05] <zyga> just cut to the bzr repo URL
[10:05] <Seveas> and the do something different is grabbing the html and letting a massive regex extract things :)
[10:06] <Seveas> lol, it's not in version control :)
[10:06] <zyga> Seveas: than make it :)
[10:06] <zyga> s/than/then/
[10:06] <Seveas> http://binaries4all.nl/~dennis/Bugzilla.py
[10:08] <mpt> sivang: I hadn't heard of MaloneSupportIntegration until two minutes ago
[10:08] <mpt> iirc
[10:11] <zyga> Seveas: can you share your config file :)
[10:11] <zyga> I'd like to see how this bugger works in real time
[10:12] <mpt> sivang: wow, that spec is from the Cape Town era
[10:12] <Seveas> zyga, make sure you don't join any 'production channels' like #launchpad
[10:12] <mpt> and it talks about RT rather than about Launchpad's own support tracker
[10:12] <zyga> Seveas: don't worryt
[10:13] <Seveas> zyga, s/Bugzilla.py/Ubugtu.conf/
[10:13] <Seveas> there's the config
[10:13] <zyga> k
[10:13] <Seveas> did you grab it already?
[10:14] <Seveas> if so: please delete without looking....
[10:14] <zyga> not yet
[10:14] <Seveas> (contains the bots nickserv pass)
[10:14] <zyga> ah
[10:14] <zyga> BTW
[10:14] <zyga> after fresh boot
[10:15] <zyga> start synaptic or anything else that touches dpkg's database
[10:15] <zyga> IMHO the performance severely degraded since hoary 
[10:15] <zyga> I was recently playing with readahead for gnome-terminal
[10:15] <Seveas> ok, grab the config now :)
[10:15] <zyga> cat > /dev/null all files it reads
[10:15] <zyga> ok
[10:15] <zyga> got it
[10:24] <bradb> mpt: ping
[10:26] <mpt> bradb: pong
[10:27] <bradb> mpt: I was curious: let's say you have bug #42 and #55, #55 is a dup of #42...
[10:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #42: Bug description listed in task is not the correct description Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/42
[10:27] <bradb> #55 is private, #42 is public.
[10:28] <bradb> how do you show bug #55 in the dups portlet on the bug #42 page when 1. the user isn't logged in, 2. they are, but not with a user that has perms to view that (private) bug and 3. they are logged in as someone who does have the perms to view that bug
[10:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #55: pybaz needs commit --no-cacherev Fix req. for: bazaar (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Robert Collins, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/55
[10:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #42: Bug description listed in task is not the correct description Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/42
[10:28] <bradb> ?
[10:29] <mpt> For (1) and (2), "55: [secret] "
[10:29] <mpt> For (3), *probably* "55: Summary of bug", but I'm not certain of that
[10:29] <mpt> er, summary->title
[10:29] <mpt> (damn Malone data model)
[10:30] <bradb> hm, titles seem like microcontent to me, where portlets are like nanocontent
[10:30] <mpt> what?
[10:31] <bradb> n/m, i guess we're already wedging the bug title into other portlets
[10:31] <mpt> oh!
[10:31] <mpt> right
[10:31] <mpt> the portlet doesn't show the title currently, does it
[10:31] <bradb> the "latest bugs" one does
[10:31] <mpt> but, but
[10:31] <bradb> the dups one does not
[10:31] <mpt> it should do
[10:31] <mpt> then it's more googlable
[10:31] <bradb> the anchor title is the title
[10:32] <mpt> After all, it's quite likely that the reason the duplicate was reported in the first place is that the reporter was using different terminology, and failed to search for the terminology of the original bug
[10:32] <mpt> so when the duplicate gets marked, the original bug page gets that terminology printed on it
[10:32] <mpt> in the duplicates portlet
[10:32] <mpt> which is good
[10:33] <bradb> mpt: ok, so IOW make the dups portlet look like the latest bugs portlet?
[10:33] <mpt> yep
[10:33] <mpt> anyway, that should be part of BugHistory
[10:33] <mpt> rather than a portlet
[10:33] <mpt> eventually
[10:33] <mpt> btw, the terminology for portlets isn't "nanocontent", it's "chartjunk" ;-)
[10:34] <bradb> amen to that
[10:35] <bradb> in this case, the dups portlet and the recent bugs portlet, though meaning very different things, will look nearly identical
[10:48] <nanouck> Hi
[10:48] <nanouck> I would like to know how to browse launchpad code source?
[11:00] <Seveas> you can't unless you are a launchpad developer
[11:01] <jordi> carlos?
[11:02] <jordi> carlos: can you add https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-hr/ to the Ubuntu translators group?
[11:07] <jordi> carlos: same for Slovak: they are more than one, so it needs to change from "Peter Chabada" to ubuntu-l10n-sk in Ubuntu translators.
[11:22] <nanouck> why cannot I get launchpad source in read only mode?
[11:25] <Seveas> because it is not open source yet
[11:26] <zyga> launchpad is not open source?
[11:27] <Seveas> not yet
[11:27] <zyga> whoah
[11:27] <zyga> why?
[11:27] <sivang> hmm, is mpt going to be back?
[11:27] <Seveas> and this is not really the place to discuss that, come to UBZ if you want to talk about launchpad with the developers...
[11:27] <zyga> I cannot come to UBZ
[11:27] <zyga> I really dont understand why launchpad is closed source
[11:36] <kiko> zyga, I'll explain a bit
[11:36] <kiko> launchpad is really bleeding edge conceptual
[11:36] <kiko> a lot of it is untested and being designed
[11:37] <kiko> so if we released it today we'd probably get a lot of traffic but not a lot of contributions
[11:37] <kiko> the plan is for it to be OSS
[11:37] <kiko> but we need to prove it works minimally (by supporting ubuntu first)
[11:38] <kiko> we don't even support ubuntu main yet in the processes we want to
[11:38] <kiko> that's a sign of immaturity
[11:38] <Seveas> and currently it is not nearly in a release-able state
[11:38] <kiko> we'll get there, but we don't have much in the way of concrete plausible promise yet
[11:38] <kiko> just ask mdz 
[11:38] <kiko> he's tell you all about it
[11:38] <kiko> you can ask sabdfl for more details
[11:39] <nanouck> ok kiko
[11:39] <kiko> man am I tired today
[11:40] <nanouck> I'm looking tools for create devel portail like gforge
[11:40] <sivang> kiko: what's time is it for you now?
[11:40] <kiko> 7:40pm
[11:40] <kiko> but I've been at it for a couple of days
[11:40] <sabdfl> elmo: ping
[11:40] <kiko> and the days have been long
[11:41] <nanouck> so when I have seen  launchpad I would have been interested
[11:41] <sabdfl> kiko: rather get some sleep and nail it in the morning
[11:41] <kiko> well, this testing is fun :)
[11:42] <kiko> downloading the releases files is not however
[11:42] <nanouck> kilo: on which web server is based launchpad interface
[11:42] <kiko> people need to stop uploading to universe
[11:42] <kiko> nanouck, it's a zope3 application, so it uses zope's web server
[11:43] <sivang> kiko: however, there is an apache at web end that redirects requests to zope no?
[11:43] <kiko> sivang, there's pound, a caching web proxy, AIUI
[11:43] <kiko> I've never studied that part of our setup
[11:44] <nanouck> ok thanks, when I discovered plone, I thought it will be great to include a good tracker, mailing and many components to make it a great devel web app
[11:44] <kiko> nanouck, we use part of the plone style, so the UI actually looks more than a bit plonish
[11:44] <sivang> nanouck: you're invited to register your products against launchpad, and use its facilities to help you 
[11:44] <kiko> oh, yes, I should have said that
[11:45] <sivang> nanouck: there are already some that use it
[11:45] <sivang> nanouck: not ubuntu/gnome/[...]  related :)
[11:45] <nanouck> kiko, I registered half hour ago
[11:45] <sivang> eh :)
[11:46] <jordi> oi kiko 
[11:46] <nanouck> In fact I study tools for intranet
[11:46] <ajmitch> evening jordi :)
[11:46] <jordi> kiko: can you do those two bits I said before,
[11:46] <jordi> 23:02 < jordi> carlos: can you add https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-hr/ to the Ubuntu translators group?
[11:46] <jordi> 23:07 < jordi> carlos: same for Slovak: they are more than one, so it needs to change from "Peter Chabada" to ubuntu-l10n-sk in Ubuntu translators.
[11:46] <kiko> jordi, I can always do anything for you but what are these bits and how much will you pay me
[11:47] <nanouck> the firm where I work was long time closed sources
[11:47] <nanouck> but now it begins enjoying free software
[11:47] <jordi> kiko: I will get up at 7 if you do it.
[11:47] <jordi> ajmitch: hey man
[11:47] <kiko> jordi, 6.
[11:47] <sivang> yo jordi 
[11:47] <carlos> jordi, sorry, I was not here
[11:47] <kiko> and that's wimping out
[11:47] <jordi> carlos: no worries
[11:47] <jordi> I'm about to leave
[11:47] <jordi> hey sivan
[11:47] <carlos> hmmm
[11:48] <kiko> carlos, doing it already
[11:48] <carlos> jordi, ask kiko
[11:48] <jordi> sivan: you'll be in UBZ, right?
[11:48] <sivang> jordi: yes :)
[11:48] <carlos> kiko, you owe me 50% of the money that jordi pays you :-)
[11:48] <jordi> coolio
[11:48] <carlos> uuppps, wasn't it a private message?
[11:48] <carlos> :-D
[11:48] <jordi> so
[11:48] <nanouck> sivang, "nanouck: there are already some that use it" which ones?
[11:48] <carlos> jordi, I will do it now, don't worry
[11:48] <jordi> I'm going to a techno party I'm probably not going to like that much
[11:48] <kiko> nanouck, look at /products
[11:48] <kiko> don't techno for an answer
[11:49] <sivang> jordi: are you preparing something interesting for me ? :)
[11:49] <jordi> but the gf is sooooooooooooooooooooooo interested
[11:49] <jordi> and has free tickets
[11:49] <carlos> jordi, ;-)
[11:49] <kiko> dude
[11:49] <jordi> sivang: probably not :)
[11:49] <carlos> jordi, do you want to see Antonio Orozco next Thursday? 
[11:49] <jordi> kiko: techno is ok, but just ok. The real thing needs a guitar, a bass and some drums
[11:49] <sivang> jordi: just meeting is also coolio indeend :-)
[11:50] <jordi> yeah
[11:50] <kiko> jordi, done
[11:50] <jordi> even if it's not in Spain :)
[11:50] <carlos> kiko, you did it?
[11:50] <jordi> kiko: great. I will be UP AT 5AM.
[11:50] <kiko> jordi, you should come to some of the serious psytrance raves
[11:50] <kiko> carlos, yes
[11:50] <carlos> man, you are too fast for me....
[11:50] <jordi> BUT ONLY IF THE SAB DOES TOO
[11:50] <kiko> live guitar
[11:50] <kiko> the sab does nothing
[11:50] <kiko> he commands the view
[11:50] <jordi> heh
[11:50] <sivang> jordi: oh, I love catalunya :)
[11:51] <kiko> anyway
[11:51] <kiko> I'm GTFOOH
[11:51] <jordi> you think he won't join us any day?
[11:51] <jordi> kiko: there's a swimming pool too. COOL
[11:51] <sivang> nanouck: https://launchpad.net/products
[11:51] <jordi> sivang: Catalan politics are so fucked up these days :)
[11:52] <sivang> jordi: I imagine :) anyway, gotta say good night for the night!
[11:52] <sivang> bye all!
[11:52] <sabdfl> carlos: if we open dapper on katie now, do we need to have rosetta ready for the PO files or will they just queue up?
[11:52] <jordi> nite
[11:52] <sabdfl> nite sivang
[11:52] <sivang> night sabdfl, jordi :)
[11:52] <carlos> sabdfl, the translations will not be queued
[11:52] <kiko> jordi, he told me he doesn't like you
[11:52] <sabdfl> kiko: so... vote of no confidence in gina?
[11:52] <kiko> that's why he doesn't wake up at 6
[11:52] <carlos> sabdfl, will be lost unless Kinnison stores a link to the tarball so we could import them later manually
[11:53] <sabdfl> carlos: katie is the same infrastructure we were using for breezy
[11:53] <carlos> sabdfl, oh, we are not using the new buildd?
[11:53] <kiko> sabdfl, I'm confident I'll deliver something that is tested on a fraction of sampledata tomorrow, and I think it stands a 80% chance of succeeding the import of the archive without blowing up or damaging data. It may drop packages it couldn't parse. 
[11:53] <carlos> sabdfl, then nothing will be lost
[11:54] <jordi> kiko: REALLY
[11:54] <nanouck> Another question, which p2p protocol or network are "promoted" canonical or ubuntu?
[11:54] <kiko> sabdfl, tested across multiple releases, components, archictectures and pockets
[11:54] <kiko> nanouck, IRC?
[11:54] <carlos> but I would prefer if the attatch script is removed from the cronscript (if it's not done already) so we don't start importing potemplates
[11:54] <sabdfl> kiko: so are you +1 or -1 on going live on dapper monday?
[11:55] <kiko> sabdfl, -1, on the basis this is mission-critical and has never been tested with real data 100% successfully.
[11:55] <sabdfl> kiko: speak up then
[11:55] <kiko> but then again, people want to migrate to bzr on monday, and that's true for bzr as well :)
[11:55] <jordi> carlos: ah, those imports did appear in rosetta after all
[11:55] <carlos> jordi, :-)
[11:55] <jordi> hmm
[11:55] <jordi> no, not obby
[11:56] <jordi> only net6
[11:56] <jordi> obby is stuck
[11:56] <sabdfl> kiko: does staging have enough space to do the whole enchilada? warty / hoary / breezy, all architectures?
[11:56] <kiko> sabdfl, no. only i386.
[11:56] <carlos> jordi, are you subscribed to the launchpad-error-reports ?
[11:56] <carlos> you can see any problem with hte imports there
[11:56] <sabdfl> oh for pete's sake, so the plan was to go live with no test of all architectures?
[11:56] <jordi> carlos: isn't having access to /errors enough?
[11:56] <sabdfl> that would be exciting
[11:57] <sabdfl> Znarl: ping
[11:57] <sabdfl> elmo: ping
[11:57] <carlos> jordi, no, /errors are only the errors from the website
[11:57] <carlos> jordi, the imports are done by a script
[11:57] <jordi> carlos: ah. well, not subscribed, no
[11:57] <kiko> sabdfl, you'd have to bring that up with Kinnison, I've not been really in the loop, but I believe that's true.
[11:57] <sabdfl> that's no good
[11:57] <kiko> sabdfl, gina wouldn't have run over multiple pockets successfully.
[11:57] <kiko> (without my work)
[11:57] <sabdfl> kiko: but it will tomorrow?
[11:57] <kiko> yes
[11:57] <jordi> carlos: sent subscription request
[11:57] <kiko> it will tonight, it's really not complicated
[11:57] <sabdfl> ok, well done, and thanks
[11:58] <kiko> just that it needs to be tested
[11:58] <kiko> sabdfl, I didn't speak up because I was never asked. the issue with opening dapper on this is that, well, we learned from language packs: real world data is painful.
[11:58] <nanouck_> sorry
[11:59] <nanouck_> Another question, which p2p protocol or network are "promoted" by canonical or ubuntu?
[11:59] <sabdfl> ok. kiko: speak up when you have a strong opinion, then let me take a bad decision if i must ;-)
[11:59] <sabdfl> i do not think we should open without a full test
[11:59] <kiko> sabdfl, okay. there is one more thing, then.
[11:59] <sabdfl> bzr?
[11:59] <kiko> sabdfl, I think opening dapper on the week we are moving to bzr is a shot in the foot.
[11:59] <kiko> bzr is going to cause issues for us
[12:00] <carlos> jordi, I think htat it will be retried tomorrow, we had a concurrent update of the same table and the import failed and stub wrote code so we don't retry it until one day later
[12:00] <kiko> we in launchpad are accustomed to the toolchain kicking our ass
[12:00] <sabdfl> we'll have to try to get staging in shape for a proper run on sunday
[12:00] <kiko> but sabdfl, the distro expects a higher level of service than we do :-(
[12:00] <sabdfl> that's ok, we'll raise our game to meet expectations
[12:01] <sabdfl> and LP will do far more for the distro team than they are expecting, given time
[12:01] <kiko> given time, I agree entirely. but it needs serious QA if we need reliable launches
[12:01] <sabdfl> well, i'm a little pissed at the plan to roll out with no real testing
[12:01] <sabdfl> but we can fix that
[12:01] <kiko> language packs could have been tested 200% more
[12:01] <kiko> 2000% more even
[12:02] <kiko> but there was no consideration for that
[12:02] <kiko> sampledata testing and off we go
[12:02] <sabdfl> i do want to know where lifeless is going to be, hour by hour, while we are in bzr transition
[12:02] <kiko> that's why the distro guys were so unhappy with it
[12:02] <lifeless> sabdfl: given I fly on tuesday, perhaps we should wait for after dapper ?
[12:02] <carlos> kiko, yeah, real data sucks
[12:02] <kiko> carlos, it's a fact of life.. just need to plan for it
[12:03] <sabdfl> carlos: would have been easy to be testing with it from early on
[12:03] <kiko> with the full dataset
[12:03] <kiko> I mean
[12:03] <kiko> ubuntu gives us this amazing opportunity
[12:03] <kiko> we have so much data we can flow through launchpad
[12:03] <kiko> just need to cut time out to use it