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| judax | <- Troy Williams | 04:03 |
|---|---|---|
| mdke | hello | 04:03 |
| judax | hiya | 04:03 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | hi :) | 04:03 |
| hno73 | <- Henrik Nilsen Omma | 04:03 |
| mdke | Matthew East | 04:04 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | Karl Goetz | 04:04 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | (not on wiki) | 04:04 |
| rob^ | Robert Stoffers | 04:04 |
| mdke | i will just be in and out, as per my email today | 04:05 |
| === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| rob^ | hmm, looks like I'll have to forward a lot of the agenda to the mailing list | 04:05 |
| mdke | is jbailey coming? | 04:05 |
| rob^ | not sure | 04:05 |
| mdke | yeah i was just hilighting him | 04:06 |
| mdke | :) | 04:06 |
| rob^ | heh | 04:06 |
| jbailey | Nick highlights in irssi suck. | 04:06 |
| jbailey | fabbione: Thanks. | 04:06 |
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| Kamping_Kaiser | lol | 04:06 |
| mdke | :) | 04:06 |
| mdke | hey jeff | 04:06 |
| jbailey | For some reason they only seem to highlight at the beginning of a sentence. | 04:06 |
| === jbailey needs to switch back to x-chat soon. | ||
| mdke | jbailey, mine go a different colour if it is in the middle | 04:06 |
| Mithrandir | jbailey: it does that by default. Nice feature. | 04:06 |
| rob^ | mmm xchat | 04:06 |
| mdke | jbailey, [15:06:53] hilightwin /home/matt/.irssi/scripts/autorun/hilightwin.pl | 04:07 |
| jbailey | Mithrandir: Suck feature. I miss pings all the time. | 04:07 |
| mdke | oh no, that's something else | 04:07 |
| mdke | jbailey, i guess you can set it to hilight in the middle | 04:07 |
| Mithrandir | jbailey: define your own highlight thingy, then | 04:07 |
| jbailey | Mithrandir: What I really want is my graphical x-chat do be able to work in a screen session. | 04:07 |
| jbailey | Mithrandir: But I think I've mentioned this wish to you and you suggested NX | 04:08 |
| mdke | me too | 04:08 |
| mdke | anyhow are we go? | 04:08 |
| Mithrandir | jbailey: yes, true. Be aware of the crack levels therein. | 04:08 |
| rob^ | yes, I gotta go to work soon | 04:08 |
| mdke | merging back to trunk: kubuntu has been done already, who is going to do ubuntu stuff? | 04:08 |
| === jbailey grabs the agenda. | ||
| rob^ | what does it intail? just copy/paste? | 04:09 |
| mdke | i don't know | 04:09 |
| mdke | there is some clever svn merge thing | 04:09 |
| jbailey | What it needs is the layout of the repo thought about first. | 04:09 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| jbailey | I wound up in the end just hacking things so that they'd work. | 04:09 |
| jbailey | So it's not just a clean merge back. | 04:09 |
| mdke | ok | 04:09 |
| jbailey | Can you move this to after the repo layout item? | 04:09 |
| jbailey | s/you/we/ | 04:09 |
| mdke | good idea | 04:09 |
| rob^ | can we do that? | 04:10 |
| mdke | sure, why not? | 04:10 |
| jbailey | Up to whoever is running the meeting, really. =) | 04:10 |
| rob^ | ie can we merge back to a new layout automagically? | 04:10 |
| jbailey | Oh. =) | 04:10 |
| mdke | oh | 04:10 |
| judax | why not merge back, then chop up? | 04:10 |
| jbailey | No, it'll be a series of copies, but that won't be hard I don't think. | 04:10 |
| rob^ | oh ok, I thought so | 04:11 |
| jbailey | The other thought is that if all the work went onto the trunk and the branch, we don't really need to merge anything back. | 04:11 |
| hno73 | why not just import to baz while we are moving stuff around anyway | 04:11 |
| mdke | jbailey, what about judax's idea there | 04:11 |
| mdke | hno73, we'd have to take the decision to use baz | 04:11 |
| hno73 | that's meant to have better merging right? | 04:11 |
| jbailey | Right, but what I'm wondering is if all the data is already on the trunk, what's to merge back except my changes for the packaging which have to be rethought anyway. | 04:12 |
| hno73 | mdke: it seems to be on the agenda | 04:12 |
| mdke | jbailey, changes made since the branch | 04:12 |
| mdke | hno73, yeah :) | 04:12 |
| jbailey | mdke: I thought everyone had been trunking those as well? | 04:12 |
| mdke | jbailey, nope | 04:12 |
| jbailey | Ah, okay. | 04:12 |
| jbailey | Umm. I guess I'm the most familiar with the stuff, so I should do it. | 04:13 |
| mdke | i like judax's idea | 04:13 |
| mdke | merge back and then rearrange directory structure accordingly | 04:13 |
| rob^ | i like jbailey's idea | 04:13 |
| jbailey | Right, but merging back means what? | 04:13 |
| judax | I think that would make life easier | 04:13 |
| jbailey | Rearranging the repo should happen on the trunk, yes. | 04:13 |
| jbailey | The branch needs to be pretty much considered locked at the point. | 04:14 |
| mdke | ok, so it's the same idea | 04:14 |
| rob^ | yep | 04:14 |
| jbailey | Changing it would make doing occasional snapshots quite hard. | 04:14 |
| === jbailey ^5's judax | ||
| === rob^ brb | ||
| mdke | ok so what does the merge entail | 04:15 |
| === rob^ back | ||
| mdke | copying anything in the branch that has changed since it was branched right? | 04:15 |
| jbailey | mdke: Right, except in cases where people have contributed stuff on the trunk. | 04:15 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| mdke | when are we gonna do it? | 04:16 |
| jbailey | Can do this afternoon or maybe Monday. | 04:17 |
| jbailey | I'll try this afternoon so it doesn't block people. | 04:17 |
| judax | you can examine the changes in the working copy (trunk) and the branch | 04:17 |
| judax | by doing a --dry-run | 04:17 |
| rob^ | nice one | 04:18 |
| jbailey | Yeah. | 04:18 |
| jbailey | diff is my friend, too. =) | 04:18 |
| jbailey | I don't think svn has much of a concept of merging changesets from branches to the trunk (like bzr would) | 04:18 |
| mdke | ok cool | 04:19 |
| mdke | shall we move on | 04:19 |
| rob^ | ok | 04:20 |
| rob^ | gonna be hard seeing as hes not here.. | 04:20 |
| mdke | UBZ is a bit of a red herring afaics because only corey will be there, there might not be much docs discussion | 04:20 |
| jbailey | I will be as well, but I'm not sure how my time will be spread out. | 04:20 |
| mdke | yeah | 04:21 |
| mdke | perhaps the best thing is to play it by ear and comment on any relevant BOFs on the mailing list? | 04:21 |
| judax | there is a nice chapter in the svnbook (svnbook.red-bean.com) about Branching and Merging, just FYI | 04:21 |
| jbailey | judax: Thanks, I'll reread it. | 04:21 |
| rob^ | mdke, sounds like a good idea | 04:21 |
| rob^ | the only thing I'm concerned about is some of the stuff mentioned in the BOFs | 04:22 |
| jbailey | judax: I have the page bookmarked for how to do .cvsignore equivalents. =) | 04:22 |
| jbailey | rob^: Like what? | 04:22 |
| mdke | rob^, don't forget bof's are just ideas | 04:22 |
| judax | jbailey: ah :) | 04:22 |
| rob^ | things like in line help are a little pie-in-the-sky | 04:22 |
| rob^ | ms has been doing it for years anyway with their question mark thing, and no body cares about that either | 04:23 |
| rob^ | in the end I expect pretty much the status quo to happen anyway | 04:23 |
| jbailey | rob^: It would be interesting to get a commitment from mdz and sabdfl that all specs must have a documentation component to them in order to be complete. | 04:24 |
| jbailey | I don't know if it's doable or not. | 04:24 |
| rob^ | jbailey, thats a lot of work | 04:24 |
| jbailey | rob^: It's far more work for the docteam to do it after the fact. | 04:24 |
| Kamion | some specs are just "fix <deep thing>" | 04:24 |
| jbailey | Kamion: Sure, but should that fix not be documented so that it's understood after? | 04:25 |
| Kamion | I think we'd want a little more selectivity than a blanket requirement | 04:25 |
| jbailey | Kamion: Mmm. When I think of the specs that I went to at UDU, most of them could've used at least some basic documentation. It would be nicer if it were an "apply for exception". | 04:25 |
| Kamion | depends on how much the person who scheduled the BOF knew about the code - I've had specs that were utterly obvious | 04:25 |
| rob^ | I'm thinking that such a change would mean we would be forking everything from upstream, ie adding lots of code to each program | 04:26 |
| Kamion | as long as there's an exception process, no problem | 04:26 |
| rob^ | ubuntu already gets accused of being a Debian fork, this would only serve to make it worse I think | 04:27 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | jbailey: what do you mean by 'doc component' in a spec? | 04:28 |
| jbailey | rob^: I see less of those accusations now that the random nay-sayers are getting ignored =) | 04:28 |
| rob^ | heh | 04:28 |
| rob^ | I'm not saying it is, but why give them more ammunition? | 04:28 |
| mdke | i think you two are talking at cross purposes, jbailey's proposal was not to add code to every program | 04:29 |
| mdke | as i understand it | 04:29 |
| mdke | he is just saying, specs should be documented | 04:29 |
| rob^ | how else would you implement in line help? | 04:29 |
| jbailey | Kamping_Kaiser: What I'd like to see is that we build up a documentation set for Ubuntu. But the problem is that the docteam is just a small group of people not involved in the development. I would like to see the coders responsible for creating the needed documentation as part of completeing the spec (So before payment of the bounty, or whatnot) | 04:29 |
| mdke | rob^, he is not talking about in line help at all afaics | 04:29 |
| jbailey | Sorry, I was still mention things for UBZ | 04:30 |
| rob^ | mdke, thats what I was on about | 04:30 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | jbailey: so the programers write all/some help, and what does the docteam do? make it usefull? other? | 04:30 |
| mdke | rob^, true but that doesn't stop the subject from being changed | 04:31 |
| rob^ | mdke, heh yeah | 04:31 |
| jeffsch | the docteam can edit it and de-geekify it so users can understand it | 04:31 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol. i see. well put jeffsch :) | 04:31 |
| mdke | the problem is really that the docteam only has a handful of contributors | 04:31 |
| apokryphos | if you don't mind me saying, the job of the coder is to code; we don't wanna waste their time with documentation (hence a docteam), but of course it's good to have coordination between these | 04:31 |
| mdke | at least at the moment | 04:31 |
| mdke | apokryphos, that is quite a controversial statement | 04:31 |
| apokryphos | I stand by it | 04:32 |
| mdke | lots of people accept that part of writing programs is documenting them | 04:32 |
| jbailey | I don't think I know any programmer who has the task of just coding. There's always meetings, documentation, end-user troubleshooting, etc. | 04:32 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| apokryphos | small things like those; but, for example, it shouldn't be a coders job (per se) to write a handbook for a given app | 04:32 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | not a handbook, a basic help to help the doc team, surely? | 04:33 |
| apokryphos | in my ideal, you have a given docteam, who tries/uses the given application, and coordinates with the programmer on questions; the doccer takes note of these, then documents them | 04:33 |
| judax | not full-on documentation, but at least 'spec-form' documentation | 04:33 |
| apokryphos | the way I've always done things in the past, is just arrange to have a chat with the person in question online; have a quick talk asking questions etc, then go away and write it up | 04:34 |
| apokryphos | (quite like a reporter, in some ways) | 04:34 |
| rob^ | whos going to have the time to round all these up and de-geekify them anyway? | 04:34 |
| jbailey | rob^: Well, it's best-effort. =) | 04:34 |
| rob^ | heh | 04:35 |
| jbailey | I tend to think that if we ship geeky documentation, that it will still be an improvement on shipping just three documents like we did now. | 04:35 |
| rob^ | I wonder if we can wiki-ify them to allow anyone to help us | 04:35 |
| jbailey | My thought is that the people implementing the specs should have some interest in seeing the documentation written. | 04:35 |
| apokryphos | basic user documentation is probably paramount, but more geeky documentation is necessary for giving other users the better user-experience | 04:36 |
| apokryphos | jbailey: definitely | 04:36 |
| Kamion | apokryphos: handbook-style documentation definitely isn't appropriate for every development task. In many cases (non-end-user-facing ones), comments or a simple document for developers is sufficient and the developer should write those | 04:36 |
| apokryphos | definitely; things like "What's This" help are of course the job of the coder | 04:37 |
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| rob^ | apokryphos, thats what I was touching on before | 04:37 |
| rob^ | shall we move on? | 04:40 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | going back to jbaileys comment on 'geeky doc is better then nothing', im not sure thats always right. rob^ and the ohter auther of the faq have a great intro text, but i cant see a user wanting to go deeper into geeky help untill they feel comfortable. that faq and similar help is requiered | 04:40 |
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| jjesse | too late? | 04:40 |
| mdke | no, hi | 04:40 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | hi :) | 04:40 |
| jjesse | sorry had to solve an emergency at work | 04:40 |
| mdke | shall we progress to the next agenda item? | 04:41 |
| mdke | or do people have more points about docs at UBZ | 04:41 |
| Kamion | Kamping_Kaiser: that's "not optimal" certainly but doesn't refute "better than nothing", I think | 04:41 |
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| rob^ | it would be nice to get something for each program, but unless someone wants to stand up and do all the work it will probably just mostly go to waste | 04:42 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | Kamion: sure. and i dont mind about next item fwiw | 04:42 |
| rob^ | any more for any more? | 04:43 |
| mdke | ok translations - does anyone want more information than I've set out in my email to the list today? | 04:43 |
| rob^ | no, it all sounds good mdke | 04:43 |
| rob^ | any idea of time frame? | 04:44 |
| judax | that covers it, imho | 04:44 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | i didnt realy follow, but i havent seen it in action :| | 04:44 |
| rob^ | Kamping_Kaiser, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/3521 | 04:44 |
| mdke | i had originally said about a month | 04:44 |
| rob^ | ok | 04:44 |
| mdke | because that is about time of language-packs | 04:44 |
| rob^ | oh ok cool | 04:44 |
| mdke | but i don't think that is a major thing | 04:45 |
| jbailey | Yay, langpacks. | 04:45 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | ta rob^ | 04:45 |
| rob^ | np | 04:45 |
| mdke | jbailey, got any issues about translation updates? | 04:46 |
| === jsgotangco [i=jsgotang@info1-190.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| jbailey | mdke: Nope. Just need to figure out the langpack thing with Martin. | 04:46 |
| jsgotangco | bloody hell | 04:46 |
| === jsgotangco is in a cafe in a hotel | ||
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol | 04:47 |
| jsgotangco | mirc has the lousiest interface ever | 04:47 |
| === jsgotangco lurks | ||
| rob^ | heh | 04:47 |
| mdke | jbailey, well that is for dapper. We're on breezy | 04:47 |
| jbailey | mdke: Right, sorry. | 04:47 |
| jbailey | None for breezy. =) | 04:47 |
| mdke | cool | 04:48 |
| rob^ | next | 04:48 |
| rob^ | sorry, I have to get up in ~4 hours for work | 04:48 |
| jbailey | Big picture stuff for dapper - for me is just langpacks and nightly snapshots. | 04:49 |
| jsgotangco | snapshots +1 | 04:49 |
| jjesse | snapshots of ? | 04:49 |
| jbailey | jjesse: The trunk of the repository | 04:49 |
| jbailey | Uploaded weekly to dapper for wider review. | 04:49 |
| jjesse | jbailey: which will then include the kubuntu-docs? | 04:50 |
| rob^ | snapshots is good | 04:50 |
| jbailey | jjesse: I'm not clear on what we should do for that. I'm a bit concerned that the docteam is reponsible for Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu and Xubuntu (per the agenda) | 04:50 |
| jsgotangco | well we can ask Ridell for that.... | 04:50 |
| jbailey | jjesse: I'm not really clear how much there is in common between them and if they should really be done out of the same repository. | 04:51 |
| jbailey | In terms of producing snapshots, though, no skin off my teeth. =) | 04:51 |
| jjesse | did i miss the discussion of the infrastructure? | 04:51 |
| judax | jjesse: no | 04:51 |
| jbailey | It'll be largely automated. | 04:51 |
| jjesse | i can talk to Riddell about the daily snapshots of kubuntu dapper including the docs | 04:51 |
| jbailey | jjesse: Cool. I just don't want to see all of those treated as second-class citizens. | 04:52 |
| jbailey | jjesse: But I'm not sure the best way to do that. | 04:52 |
| jjesse | jbailey: don't worry i'll keep bugging Riddell for any help i need we have worked together for the breezy docs | 04:53 |
| mdke | jbailey, why are you concerned about the docteam doing ubuntu, kubuntu etc? there is only one docteam, not more than one. | 04:53 |
| jbailey | mdke: I'm wondering how the docteam decides whether it cares about a derivative or not. | 04:53 |
| mdke | jbailey, it's a question of having willing contributors | 04:53 |
| === Riddell turns up | ||
| rob^ | I hope this bloody thunderstorm goes away or I'm gonna have to go | 04:53 |
| jbailey | mdke: Like, someone decides to do Xubuntu. Does it suddenly become the docteams responsibility? | 04:53 |
| judax | it seems that way | 04:54 |
| mdke | jbailey, i think that would be a question for the team, but certainly it has decided to include kubuntu | 04:54 |
| mdke | and jerome has done work on edubuntu | 04:54 |
| apokryphos | jbailey: it cares about them if they're official projects, I'd imagine (i.e. being in MAIN etc) | 04:55 |
| rob^ | if its *ubuntu and someone wants to write docs sure | 04:55 |
| jjesse | what you would get is teams that only have 1 member | 04:56 |
| jsgotangco | i don't want to do work on some other svn for sure | 04:56 |
| jjesse | agreed jsgotangco | 04:56 |
| jbailey | Right. | 04:56 |
| jsgotangco | i'd say we remove the upstream stuff though... | 04:56 |
| jsgotangco | the current trunk is like 250MB | 04:56 |
| jbailey | I just don't want suddenly it to become "do your own derivative, have the docteam take care of it" | 04:56 |
| judax | that is where you have a problem though, you need to do what is right for the distro | 04:57 |
| mdke | jbailey, yeah, the team can decide what to work on | 04:57 |
| jbailey | Half of the model of Ubuntu is to make it easy to do derivatives. So making it easy to derive the docs should be part of that. | 04:57 |
| rob^ | maybe, but that doesn't mean we have to accept them | 04:57 |
| jbailey | I wonder if having it all in one source package works towards that. I don't have the thoughts all clear in my head. | 04:57 |
| mdke | obviously we need to build contributors for ubuntu and kubuntu, but if people want to work on other ubuntu-related, that is cool | 04:57 |
| jsgotangco | i'd like to focus on Partner Projects | 04:58 |
| mdke | jbailey, we can have separate source packages, and one repository with a number of separate directories, as suggested by rob^ | 04:58 |
| jsgotangco | so that's 3 projects | 04:58 |
| jjesse | shouldn't we have a "head" of ubuntu-docs a | 04:58 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | if somone has comit on svn, can they commit to an project corrently? or can it be restricted? | 04:58 |
| rob^ | jbailey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamRepositoryLayout | 04:58 |
| jsgotangco | Kamping_Kaiser: its an open svn :) | 04:59 |
| rob^ | Kamping_Kaiser, no all | 04:59 |
| jjesse | "head" of kubuntu-docs and "head" of edubuntu-docs, etc | 04:59 |
| jbailey | rob^: Cool. I save comments until the right part of the agenda. | 04:59 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | ok :| thats not helpfull ;O | 04:59 |
| jbailey | (Lagging a bit, conference call) | 04:59 |
| mdke | it is true that we need to encourage contribution to partner projects before we can have the manpower to contribute on things like xubuntu | 04:59 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 05:00 |
| === jsgotangco will focus on kubuntu and edubuntu | ||
| mdke | anyhow, what other big pictures for dapper? | 05:00 |
| jjesse | i will focus on kubuntu | 05:00 |
| mdke | we need to think about what docs to write | 05:00 |
| jsgotangco | let's make the specs again from DocteamProjects | 05:01 |
| jjesse | for dapper i have started wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs | 05:01 |
| rob^ | mdke, as a side thing I would like to get some of the upstream xubuntu docs and have them available maybe with modification in xubuntu | 05:01 |
| jsgotangco | upstream xubuntu? | 05:01 |
| rob^ | I mean xfce | 05:01 |
| rob^ | they have an svn repo | 05:01 |
| jsgotangco | please make efforts as much as possible to look at upstream work just in case :) | 05:01 |
| jsgotangco | or fix our upstream as well :) (scrollkeeper borkage) | 05:02 |
| rob^ | thats what I have been/am going to do | 05:02 |
| jsgotangco | for gnome, there's current upstream 2.12 on the works, but not optimistic about it :) | 05:02 |
| rob^ | xfce have a nice user guide | 05:03 |
| mdke | are we going to try and complete the ubuntu userguide? | 05:03 |
| mdke | it has a distinct aim from the faqguide, but overlaps in many respects | 05:03 |
| rob^ | yes, I did a lot of work during breezy to not overlap as much as possible | 05:04 |
| mdke | i would favour trying to get it back up and running | 05:04 |
| jjesse | mdke: for kubuntu docs that i have started to focus on for dapper please see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs | 05:04 |
| mdke | jjesse, ok, you need to mark things in DocteamProjects if you can | 05:04 |
| jsgotangco | jjesse: we have to update the KQuickGuide though... | 05:05 |
| jsgotangco | even halfway... | 05:05 |
| jsgotangco | at least there won't be that much changes for Dapper unless we actually see KDE 3.5 :) | 05:05 |
| jjesse | jsgotangco: yes we do, update it all the way, quickguide release notes, userguide are the ones | 05:05 |
| rob^ | jjesse, do we still want to use kudos for a kubuntu faq guide? | 05:05 |
| jjesse | rob^: yes i have seen some requests in #kubuntu for faq guide | 05:05 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 05:06 |
| jjesse | rob^: maybe we can work together on that one | 05:06 |
| judax | kudos would be a good start | 05:06 |
| rob^ | jjesse, I'd like to have it done for dapper | 05:06 |
| rob^ | jjesse, sure | 05:06 |
| jjesse | rob^: ok | 05:06 |
| === jsgotangco is still getting used to KDE...but doing good atm | ||
| rob^ | jjesse, does kudos have an xml version by any chance? | 05:07 |
| jsgotangco | none | 05:07 |
| jsgotangco | we can grep it though | 05:08 |
| jjesse | sorry kudus is? | 05:08 |
| judax | it is like ubuntuguide.org | 05:08 |
| jjesse | ah | 05:08 |
| rob^ | jjesse, the kubuntu unofficial faq guide | 05:08 |
| jsgotangco | that's the kubuntu faqguide... | 05:08 |
| rob^ | yeah | 05:08 |
| rob^ | I'd like to use that to save work | 05:08 |
| jjesse | do i need to get permission to create a docbook file of that from someone? | 05:08 |
| rob^ | we need to check the licences | 05:08 |
| jsgotangco | if its licensed accordingly, you can use it | 05:08 |
| rob^ | I think sean said we have premission to use it under our current licences though | 05:09 |
| jsgotangco | but dig the list archive for details | 05:09 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 05:09 |
| jsgotangco | i asked the author about it | 05:09 |
| judax | didn't sean talk to the author? | 05:09 |
| jsgotangco | me and sean | 05:09 |
| rob^ | apparently | 05:09 |
| jsgotangco | we have permission | 05:09 |
| judax | jsgotangco: ok | 05:09 |
| rob^ | ok | 05:09 |
| jsgotangco | we'll just see if its updated | 05:09 |
| jsgotangco | its in berlios | 05:09 |
| rob^ | an xml? | 05:09 |
| jjesse | i heard on #kubuntu that it's not updated | 05:10 |
| jsgotangco | (actually its a good ton of work) | 05:10 |
| jsgotangco | rob^: we wish | 05:10 |
| jjesse | but haven't checked myself | 05:10 |
| rob^ | jsgotangco, yes we do :) | 05:10 |
| jsgotangco | its quite good....very visual for an faqguide | 05:10 |
| rob^ | do we have premission to use the site as is? | 05:10 |
| rob^ | ie can I copy it from there tomorrow? | 05:10 |
| jsgotangco | well that's another story | 05:10 |
| judax | does not look updated to me atm | 05:11 |
| jsgotangco | we asked the author to work in svn before, but he declined | 05:11 |
| rob^ | I'd like to start some work on that in about 6 hours if I could | 05:11 |
| jsgotangco | rob^: no rush, focus on your xubuntu :) | 05:11 |
| rob^ | heh | 05:11 |
| jsgotangco | we can take kde from here :) | 05:11 |
| jjesse | jsgotangco: do you want to create the file or should i? | 05:11 |
| rob^ | ok | 05:12 |
| rob^ | I'll just follow your lead | 05:12 |
| jsgotangco | i'll fix the kquickguide first | 05:13 |
| rob^ | ok can we move on? | 05:13 |
| jsgotangco | i'll grep the kudos site later when i get home | 05:13 |
| mdke | help.ubuntu.com and doc.ubuntu.com on the new server are now available for all to see | 05:14 |
| rob^ | holy heck its pouring outside | 05:14 |
| mdke | comments to the mailing list i would say, otherwise we'll be here for hours | 05:14 |
| jsgotangco | mdke: both are in server pronto already? | 05:14 |
| mdke | yes | 05:14 |
| mdke | refresh your caches | 05:14 |
| jsgotangco | good good | 05:14 |
| === mdke points at hno73 's funky artwork | ||
| rob^ | no css on doc.u.c? | 05:15 |
| hno73 | :) | 05:15 |
| mdke | rob^, eh? | 05:15 |
| apokryphos | re: kudos. They guy seems generally pretty understanding, but has very big plans | 05:15 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | rob^: got none here | 05:15 |
| rob^ | hmm no there we go mdke | 05:15 |
| apokryphos | (said he wanted to make most of the steps into shell scripts, so users could just run them) | 05:15 |
| rob^ | apokryphos, ouch | 05:15 |
| judax | yikes | 05:16 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | hm. | 05:16 |
| apokryphos | in some ways suffers some of the same blunders as ubuntuguide guy, but kudos-guy said he did plan to add more explanations (which would be cool). The whole idea, he says, is a proof of concept (Linux being user-friendly etc) | 05:16 |
| rob^ | each to their own I guess | 05:16 |
| mdke | k, back to help.ubuntu.com, some things to discuss as per my email | 05:17 |
| apokryphos | there's some really useful stuff (I incorporated some stuff into kde docs), like the given Linux application with win/mac equivalent -- very handy for newbies | 05:17 |
| mdke | 1. whether to include translations | 05:17 |
| judax | yes, that matrix is nice | 05:17 |
| mdke | 2. whether and how to include the bar and side panel to all docs | 05:17 |
| mdke | 3. please fix the kde docs so I can add them | 05:18 |
| rob^ | 1 - yes I think we should | 05:18 |
| rob^ | 2 - Yes, I think we should | 05:19 |
| mdke | i think we shouldn't, because I think that locoteams will want to host their own | 05:19 |
| mdke | -fr and -it are already in that process | 05:19 |
| mdke | and they will no doubt change things like appearance to make the guides in tune with their websites | 05:19 |
| rob^ | :) | 05:19 |
| mdke | also, it will get messy if we host 30 translations | 05:19 |
| rob^ | can we alter the html on help.u.c at all? | 05:19 |
| rob^ | mdke, maybe we can have an additional translations page | 05:19 |
| mdke | rob^, comments about the page itself are probably best postponed to the list imo | 05:19 |
| rob^ | yep | 05:19 |
| mdke | but sure, we can change anything | 05:19 |
| mdke | it's our server | 05:20 |
| rob^ | hmm nice | 05:20 |
| mdke | i had thought, a link to a list of the various locoteam webpages | 05:20 |
| === rob^ thinks about using his l33t html/php coding skillz | ||
| rob^ | oh crap | 05:20 |
| rob^ | I gotta go, the thunderstorm outside is getting pretty bad | 05:21 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | later rob^ :) | 05:21 |
| mdke | bye | 05:21 |
| rob^ | cyas | 05:21 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | later | 05:21 |
| whiprush | did I miss the meeting? | 05:21 |
| mdke | so does anyone else have any thoughts about translations? perhaps we can ask the locoteams themselves? they would be well placed to offer advice | 05:21 |
| jsgotangco | whiprush: not much :) | 05:21 |
| whiprush | whew | 05:21 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | mdke: ask locos on the list? i dont hav any ideas about it | 05:22 |
| jsgotangco | mdke: add them to d.u.c.? nice idea although we'll have to get their work or they upload it themselves (bit of work) | 05:22 |
| jeffsch | mdke: link to all translations; some will be hosted locally, others on translation team sites | 05:22 |
| mdke | jeffsch, that will take quite a bit of maintaining | 05:22 |
| mdke | jsgotangco, no, not their work, translations of the docteam stuff | 05:22 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | this would be hard, but on a help page offer links to the same page translated by the doco teams? | 05:23 |
| hno73 | mdke: not if it's a wiki page :) | 05:23 |
| jsgotangco | it'd be nice if we can just link 'em but if we got a nice server why not... | 05:23 |
| Riddell | mdke: what's the status of translations at the moment? | 05:23 |
| hno73 | then teams can update the links themselves | 05:23 |
| jsgotangco | aye, like the one in edubuntu.... | 05:23 |
| mdke | Riddell, for ubuntu-docs the status is at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-docs | 05:23 |
| mdke | hno73, nice idea | 05:23 |
| mdke | Riddell, kubuntu stuff isn't translated | 05:24 |
| mdke | hno73, have you got moin up on there already? | 05:25 |
| hno73 | mdke: no, but I expect it to be up later today | 05:25 |
| mdke | cool | 05:25 |
| hno73 | I have a side menu thing working in moin now | 05:25 |
| jsgotangco | wow | 05:25 |
| hno73 | so we can have the same side menu as the rest of the site | 05:26 |
| mdke | excellent | 05:26 |
| jsgotangco | hno73: is the frontpage of the edubuntu.org site in moin too? it has a side menu thing | 05:26 |
| jjesse | i have to split have another work meeting :( | 05:26 |
| jsgotangco | later jjesse | 05:26 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | :( later jjesse | 05:27 |
| mdke | bye | 05:27 |
| judax | bye jjesse | 05:27 |
| hno73 | jsgotangco: no, that's plain html | 05:27 |
| judax | mdke: concerning #3, I just built kak (About Kubuntu), what problem are you experiencing | 05:27 |
| hno73 | but it would be nice to make it moin based | 05:27 |
| === jeffsch goes off to work :( | ||
| Kamping_Kaiser | later mate | 05:28 |
| jbailey | I think we've lost a pile of people. Should we punt the other items to next time? | 05:28 |
| mdke | judax, i'm experiencing this: http://help.ubuntu.com/kde/about-kubuntu/C/ | 05:28 |
| === jeffsch [n=jeffsch@fatwire-204-157.uniserve.ca] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["gone] | ||
| mdke | jbailey, yes we can, or pursue them on the mailing list | 05:29 |
| Riddell | mdke: that's using the KDE non-web stylesheet | 05:29 |
| judax | mdke: the style | 05:29 |
| mdke | yes | 05:29 |
| mdke | if that can be sorted out, I'll put em up and link em | 05:30 |
| Riddell | you want to use the KDE web stylesheet, which is in a top secret place. or just a normal stylesheet | 05:30 |
| === jsgotangco will have to learn more KDE steylesheets | ||
| judax | what stylesheet do you want | 05:31 |
| mdke | Riddell, either way, if you fix it, I'll build it and put it up on that site | 05:31 |
| Riddell | mdke: what do I need to fix? what's the command used to generate that? | 05:32 |
| judax | make kak | 05:32 |
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| Riddell | We probably need a make kak-web | 05:32 |
| mdke | ok | 05:34 |
| mdke | also for whatever other documents to be hosted online | 05:34 |
| jsgotangco | ahhh Riddell you seem to have svn access now? | 05:34 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | are we still meeting? | 05:35 |
| jsgotangco | well i can't stay long, i'm still outside, its almost midnight here, need to catch a cab | 05:36 |
| === jsgotangco will just check the log later | ||
| Kamping_Kaiser | doestn seem like ther will be mucht o check | 05:37 |
| mdke | ok we're done i think | 05:37 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | ok. fair enough | 05:37 |
| mdke | we need to chase up this directory structure, use of gnome-doc-utils build stuff at a later date | 05:37 |
| judax | ok | 05:38 |
| jsgotangco | ah so we're stalemate on the structure? | 05:38 |
| jsgotangco | is it merged already? | 05:38 |
| mdke | we didn't get that far | 05:38 |
| judax | merge first | 05:38 |
| jsgotangco | ok sounds good | 05:39 |
| mdke | shall I prepare an announcement for help.ubuntu.com? | 05:39 |
| mdke | hno73? | 05:39 |
| hno73 | mdke: sure, thanks | 05:39 |
| mdke | great | 05:39 |
| judax | take care all | 05:40 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | :) | 05:40 |
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| jsgotangco | ok gotta go too | 05:40 |
| mdke | hno73, will you link it in www.u.c/support? | 05:40 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | sounds like it done then :) | 05:40 |
| jsgotangco | ok guys later | 05:41 |
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| Kamping_Kaiser | later mate | 05:41 |
| hno73 | mdke: yepp. Shall we launch now or on monday? | 05:42 |
| mdke | up to you | 05:42 |
| hno73 | the wiki stuff isn't ready | 05:42 |
| mdke | true | 05:42 |
| mdke | that will take a while | 05:42 |
| hno73 | but that can come later I guess | 05:42 |
| mdke | and things can be added gradually | 05:42 |
| hno73 | cool, ok | 05:42 |
| mdke | Riddell, ping me if you manage to sort that kak-web thing out :) | 05:47 |
| Riddell | ok | 05:49 |
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| cyphase | hey everyone | 05:56 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | hi | 05:57 |
| whiprush | mdke: if you need something announced on the fridge let me know. | 06:05 |
| whiprush | I'd like to showcase more docteam stuff on it. | 06:05 |
| mdke | cool | 06:07 |
| mdke | if I ever get onto planet I'll do it there too | 06:07 |
| mdke | whiprush, i'll copy you the announcement? are you jorge@u.c? | 06:07 |
| whiprush | I'm always on irc so ping me when you want something done. | 06:08 |
| whiprush | I don't have a u.c address yet. | 06:08 |
| whiprush | fridge-devel@ works though | 06:08 |
| mdke | ok | 06:08 |
| whiprush | jdub can run stuff also, but he's on tour. :p | 06:08 |
| mdke | yup | 06:09 |
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| Treenaks | http://foodfight.org/movies/2005-10%20Ubuntu%20Fanpeople/ | 10:14 |
| mvo | Treenaks: nice! | 10:20 |
| Treenaks | mvo: thanks :) | 10:20 |
| Treenaks | mvo: I'll take my cam to UBZ, so you can try it too :) | 10:20 |
| ajmitch | heh | 10:21 |
| mvo | haha, jeff is the best! | 10:21 |
| === ajmitch is trying to load it.. | ||
| ajmitch | haha | 10:23 |
| Treenaks | mvo: try Jono Bacon too | 10:23 |
| Riddell | I've never seen any of the films Jono has taken | 10:24 |
| Riddell | wrong channel for this but | 10:25 |
| mvo | Treenaks: hahaha | 10:26 |
| === mvo shouldn't see this stuff while drinking tea | ||
| ajmitch | :) | 10:26 |
| === Treenaks tries to imagine one of sabdfl :) | ||
| mvo | that's going to be fun | 10:27 |
| === senecastudent [n=shanks@69.158.2.94] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| senecastudent | Hello everyone | 11:21 |
| senecastudent | anyone in here? | 11:22 |
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| === doko [n=doko@dslb-084-059-081-172.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
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