/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/10/26/#ubuntu-motu.txt

tsengthe mib path is set wrong12:02
lucashave you filed a bug ?12:03
tsengno, BTS makes my bloodpressure go up12:03
tsengwhen is a web interface not a web interface?12:03
lucastseng: there's no such bug in debian. it would be great if you could file one12:05
tsengyes im aware, i searched for it12:05
tsengthere are actually no bugs for libsnmp-ruby last i checked12:05
lucasthen don't expect this to get fixed :-)12:05
tsengwhich is funny because its relatively useless with the bug12:05
lucashttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=33019612:05
lucasthere's this bug12:05
tsengyes that12:06
lucasseems this package is in bad shape12:06
lucasah ok12:06
tsengvery good.12:06
lucassee, the bug is in debian's BTS, not ubuntu's12:06
tsenguh12:06
lucasan example of my theory about ubuntu users being less prone to file bug reports12:06
tsengwhich is obviously where i looked for it12:07
tsengi file bugs to gnome12:07
tsengdebian bugtracker is not usable12:07
lucasyou can submit by mail12:07
lucasif your MUA allows to change some headers12:08
tseng*I* cant be arsed to submit debian bugs12:08
tsengits no wonder no one else can12:08
lucasanyway12:12
lucasif this bug report is the same bug as yours, and you have more info, just mail xxxxxx@bugs.debian.org12:12
tsengid rather make a patch12:14
tsengand give it to you12:14
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ajmitchyay, another bddebian12:15
lucasthe previous version worked12:15
lucasso It's probably just a packaging bug12:15
lucasI'll ping the maintainer12:15
tsengyou can ping him with a patch12:15
tseng /usr/share/doc/libsnmp-ruby1.8/yaml/ is the right path12:16
tseng2 minutes12:16
dholbachgood night guys12:16
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lucastseng: ok12:17
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lucasre12:23
lucassorry12:23
lucaskilled X by mistake :-)12:23
LaserJockhiya bddebian12:24
lucastseng: you have a patch or a better analysis of the bug ?12:24
tsengyes12:24
tsenghttp://tseng.ath.cx/snmp-ruby-path.diff12:24
tsengthe debian package insists on diverting the mibs12:25
lucasis this url stable, or should I copy the patch ?12:25
tsengits stable12:25
tsengthanks for having a look12:25
lucasnp12:26
tsengi will mail it to the bts12:26
lucasok, as you want12:27
lucasjust mail 330196@bugs.debian.org12:27
tsengsent12:29
lucasok12:29
lucasthe mail queue is processed every 15 minutes I think12:29
lucasyou'll receive a confirmation that your info was received12:29
tsengexciting12:30
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whiprushheh12:30
whiprushpoor tseng12:30
lucastsss12:31
KyralOMG I <3 Beagle12:32
lucasgood night12:33
bddebian2Heya LaserJock12:33
KyralAnyone know how often Beagle re-indexes?12:34
tsenggood, its there12:35
tsengKyral: um12:35
tsengKyral: constantly12:35
tsengit uses inotify to find out when files change12:35
KyralI mean I love this thing, but I typed in "int main()" and it didn't pick up on a file12:35
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whiprushKyral: you'll know it's working when your system starts to swap. ;p12:35
KyralSYSTEM i686 Ubuntu (Debian) GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.13.4-GNUGenerationCustom, LIBC 2.3.5, GNU Bash Shell | CPU AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2700+, 2167Mhz, 256KB Cache, 4339 BMIPs | MEM 250/500MB RAM Used, 2/1333MB Swap Used | STORAGE 4.7GB ReiserFS, 6.5GB Ext3, 9.4GB ReiserFS, 10MB TmpFS, 154GB ReiserFS, 251MB TmpFS, 266GB ReiserFS, 603MB ISO9660 | STATS Uptime 1.19d, Users 1(1), Procs 88(51797), Load 0.20 | X11 1280x1024x24bit | http://auk12:36
Kyralwhat swapping ;P12:36
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LaserJockbddebian2: I got my gpg key signed yesterday. I was quite excited because there were only 2 people in my area that were in the strong set (according to biglumber)12:45
bddebian2Nice12:45
KyralNo one has signed my key12:46
KyralI hope to change that at UBZ ;P12:46
LaserJockKyral: that would be the place :)12:46
LaserJockI'm not going to UBZ unfortunately12:47
NafalloI went to visit Mithrandir and got my key signed, that was the last argument for making me a member and MOTU really ;-)12:50
Kyrallol12:50
Nafallowas really fun :-). I still miss Norway.12:51
=== ajmitch got his key signed by the debian gnu/hurd cd packager ;)
KyralHey mitch will you sign my key at UBZ?12:53
ajmitchmaybe12:53
ajmitchyou've got a chance if you bring government-issued photo ID12:54
KyralDoes a Learners Permit count?12:55
ajmitchmaybe12:55
ajmitchI can't really say, not having seen one :P12:55
KyralThink Trainee Drivers License12:56
Kyral(Yes I'm 20 and I don't have a Drivers License)12:56
=== ajmitch is 23 & doesn't have one :P
ajmitchbut that's mainly because I live < 10 min walk from work12:57
lifelessKyral: does it have a photo? is it government issued? does it have name, dob ?12:57
tsenghis name is andrew btw12:57
KyralYah. It says in BIG letters "NEW YORK STATE" at the top ;P12:58
ajmitchtseng: I'm used to it by now12:58
Kyraldamn thats an old pic. No wonder, it was issued in 0212:58
ajmitchKyral: http://librarian.launchpad.net/942825/942858/vm.debdiff has wrong version12:58
KyralI gotta get a new one next year it seems ;P12:58
Kyraleh?12:59
ajmitchshould be -4ubuntu112:59
ajmitchnot -512:59
=== Kyral falls down
KyralI'll redo it12:59
ajmitchthanks12:59
KyralMeans I'll have to redownload the sourcecode and redo the patch...12:59
tsengdoes it?01:00
KyralI01:00
tsengfix the changelog01:00
Kyralyah I tend to delete source packages when I'm done01:00
tsengoh good one01:00
Kyralunless they are my personal projects01:00
KyralI'm trying to remember if I got that from Sid or not...01:01
ajmitchbbl, lunchtime01:01
KyralWell, it looks like it doesn't matter01:03
KyralSid has a new version anyway01:03
KyralShould I patch the Breezy version or the Sid version...01:04
Kyralaww hell I'll patch both and ask mitch which I should upload01:05
Kyralhey \sh01:10
\shre01:11
KyralLooks like I made a versioning blunder on one of my patchs :/01:11
Kyralfixed...man don't I feel like an idiot01:14
LaserJockKyral: well look at it this way, what if it had gotten uploaded to main or something. I could have been worse01:16
Kyralgood point01:17
LaserJockdoes anybody know what happens to subscriptions when a wikipage is renamed?01:20
sivangLaserJock: interesting quesiton01:23
LaserJockI was wanting to rename some MOTU wikipages but I don't want to destroy subscriptions that are already in place01:23
Kyralhey sivang01:24
KyralOkay homework time...01:26
sivanghey Kyral !01:26
sivangKyral: how is it going?01:26
KyralCalc2 Homework....01:26
KyralI'll tell you after I finish01:26
LaserJockcalc2, I think I disliked that more than calc1 or calc301:30
LaserJockIn fact I don't think I liked it much at all ;-)01:30
LaserJockof course I'm a chemist so that's not a big suprise01:31
crimsunwhat about physics?01:31
crimsundid you love that?01:31
LaserJockyeah, physics was better01:32
crimsunfigures. pchem is a good one with lots of yummy math.01:32
LaserJockcrimsun: yeah, I'm a pchemist so I had to do the math01:32
crimsunrockin'01:32
LaserJockI'm in my 4th year of my Phd and I can't remember much of calc201:33
LaserJockbut it wasn't pretty01:33
crimsunwe just approximate anyhow :p01:33
LaserJockno kidding01:34
LaserJockI sometimes wonder why I had to do all the math classes when all I ever do is an approximation ;-)01:34
crimsun:-)01:34
\shk..good night...#01:35
LaserJockQuantum, now there is some wierd stuff01:35
LaserJockstudent:"hmm, all I am getting is imaginary numbers."   Prof: "just square it and it becomes real."01:37
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crimsunhaha01:40
LaserJockthat's why I just stick to my lasers and let the physicists handle the "real" math01:41
Trashcan connection problems solved :)01:45
Trashcansorry for the 200 or so join/quits earlier01:45
LaserJockgreat, that was definately interesting01:45
LaserJockI thought your computer had ADD or something01:46
Trashcanhehe01:46
Trashcanmust have been my ISP. Everything was going haywire :(01:46
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LaserJockgotta go home, cya all01:55
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lucashi02:01
lucastseng: still here ?02:01
lucasogra: here ?02:06
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Diablo_D3hey all02:33
Diablo_D3does kubuntu have its own channel by any chance?02:33
kokeDiablo_D3: #kubuntu02:33
Diablo_D3this might be interesting for people in here too: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/kdegraphics/+bug/343702:34
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KyralCalc SUCKS02:46
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TiMiDohey people03:32
LaserJockhi03:33
TiMiDowuz up LaserJock03:33
LaserJocknot much, homework mostly03:33
LaserJockTiMiDo: how about you?03:38
TiMiDohere, dude looking at bugs, and writting some codes,03:38
TiMiDoand i want to be a motu (:03:38
LaserJocksame here pretty much03:39
TiMiDooh nice03:39
LaserJockare you an Ubuntu member yet?03:39
TiMiDonot really are you?03:40
KyralI'm trying for it :D03:40
TiMiDointeresting03:40
LaserJockno, not yet03:40
TiMiDooh03:40
TiMiDowhat you're doing for ubuntu LaserJock?03:40
KyralMost of my involvement has come through UbuntuForums....03:40
TiMiDooh nice03:40
LaserJockwell, right now I am working on the MOTU wiki and I have been trying to do bugfixes and03:40
LaserJockI did some on the FTBFS and UniverseUnmetDeps03:41
TiMiDooh nice,03:41
Kyralwhy the heck is SourceForge being slow?03:42
tsengthis shoudl come as no suprise03:42
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LaserJockTiMiDo: are you documenting your work on the wiki?03:45
Kyraldangit, dholbach got to the Deskbar Applet...I thought I was gonna have an easy compile03:46
LaserJockKyral: all the easy ones are taken ;-)03:46
KyralNOW you tell me03:46
LaserJockwell, I don't know, but that is what I would assume03:47
LaserJocksince that is the way it works in life03:47
KyralHey if something I think should be in Universe already has a debpack, what should I do?03:48
LaserJockbut it isn't in Debian?03:49
Kyralnope, isn't in Debian03:49
KyralAuthor made the Debpack themselves03:49
LaserJocksource?03:50
KyralIts available03:50
LaserJockI mean a debian source package03:50
Kyralnope03:50
Kyralits a debpack or a source tarball03:51
LaserJockwell, I suppose you could make a debian source from the tarball or ask the author for it but I don't think just the binary .deb is going to do03:52
KyralNo prob03:52
LaserJockI don't know though, any MOTU around03:52
Kyralthis should be easy :D03:52
KyralThing is a frontend to Deborphan :D03:52
KyralWhich I love :D03:52
LaserJockcool03:52
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crimsunask the author for the diff.gz03:59
crimsunyou obviously have access to the orig.tar.gz, since you have access to the source tarball :-)04:00
KyralCan't I just build it myself?04:01
ajmitchif you really really want04:02
ajmitchbut it's duplication of effort04:02
KyralIt'll feel good to see a clean compile for once ;P04:02
ajmitchyeah, and packaging does help you learn04:03
ajmitchI think my record is 10 min from grabbing the source tarball to having a package ready for upload04:03
Kyrallol04:03
Kyralnice :D04:03
ajmitchand in the archive < 1 hour later04:03
LaserJockwow, that seems fast04:03
ajmitchit was a simple package04:04
ajmitchand I've seen so many packages now04:04
=== ajmitch has to get it into debian, still
ajmitchmaybe I should do that this weekend04:05
KyralWhoa, this is going to force a new version of DebOrphan into Ubuntu...04:09
ajmitchwell we're going to get the latest from sid anyway04:10
Kyralokay, so its not a problem then I take it?04:10
ajmitchnot particularly04:10
Kyralokay04:10
ajmitchas soon as dapper is open & autosyncs begin, it's open season for us04:11
KyralI can't wait04:11
ajmitchneither can we :P04:11
ajmitchat least I can still upload ;)04:11
LaserJockkyral: is the new version of deborphan you need the one in Debian sid or is it newer?04:12
ajmitchthe debian version should be the only version :)04:13
ajmitchsince 1.7.18 is in sid04:13
LaserJockajmitch: oh, ok. I didn't know but I though that might be an issue04:13
=== ajmitch might do some uploads tonight to relieve stress :)
Kyraland testing is 1.7.1804:14
ajmitchtesting is 1.7.1704:14
ajmitchhttp://packages.qa.debian.org/d/deborphan.html04:14
Kyralwhooops04:14
ajmitchunless that page is behind again04:14
KyralI meant that ;P04:14
ajmitchwhich is quite possible :)04:14
ajmitchsigh04:15
KyralSo what is the version number on this one?04:15
ajmitchI think I've got about 10 packages of my own to get uploaded into sid04:15
ajmitchand countless others to sponsor04:15
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Kyralwell if this PBuild works and it passes Lintian and Linda then it should be ready for upload tonight :D04:25
ajmitchyou hope ;)04:25
KyralYah, I hope04:25
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Kyralhow do I get rid of the "build-depends-without-arch-dep" error?05:09
ajmitchis the package Architecture: all ?05:09
ajmitchor arch: any?05:09
Kyralall05:10
ajmitchBuild-Depends-Indep then05:10
KyralAh thanks05:10
Kyralthat only leaves two more warnings from Lintain05:11
Kyralchangelog-should-mention-nmu05:11
ajmitchignore the NMU warning05:11
Kyraland05:11
ajmitchit's a debianism05:11
Kyralsource-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.1.0-0ubuntu105:11
ajmitchthough you should make sure that Maintainer is set properly in debian/control05:11
KyralI believe it is05:12
Kyralwait...dangit I put an extra space between my name and my email05:14
ajmitch:)05:14
KyralLintain checks out, Linda checks out05:14
ajmitchnow to see if it gets past the MOTU review05:15
=== ajmitch gets out the knives
KyralIf it doesn't I'll just fix it until it does :D05:15
KyralIts not like I've been doing this for months05:15
ajmitchhehe05:15
Amaranthhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/osx1y737.html <--ugly, ugly python code05:17
KyralUploaded to REVU05:17
Kyralhave fun blasting it apart ajmitch ;P05:17
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hubI didn't follow05:33
hubthat dapper drake been open?05:33
hubs/that/has/05:33
hubI'll have a lot of time now05:34
Amaranth#ubuntu-devel says the topic will change when dapper opens05:34
Amaranthso i guess not05:34
hubah well05:34
hubthanks05:35
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tritiumI can't find irc logs of the meeting from the 18th06:44
tritiumthere's no -meeting log for that day, and the -motu log is empty on people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs06:44
Lathiati think someone is running a logbot06:44
Lathiatfabbione or something06:44
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Lathiatah06:44
tritiumyeah, thanks, but I think something's wrong with it06:45
Lathiatannoy fabbione i guess :)06:45
tritiumheh06:46
=== ajmitch is going to write up the minutes this weekend
ajmitchand I've got my own log06:49
tritiumOh, thanks, ajmitch.  I could not attend.  I'm on business travel, and had a dinner meeting.06:49
ajmitchunderstandable :)06:49
tritium:)06:49
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minghuajust a quick question - is REVU for NEW universe packages only, or all universe packages?07:16
crimsunNEW07:17
minghuacrimsun: oh, thanks.  I just see my debian package on REVU list, thus the question07:18
minghuathe package in question is scim.  freeflying, you may want to know this07:18
ajmitchpeople have been using it for posting fixes as well as NEW07:19
crimsunyeah, I've been recommending it as a stop-gap until dapper opens, too07:19
minghuaajmitch: oh I see, that makes sense07:20
crimsungeez, OOo2 final out yesterday, and already people asking for it07:20
minghuaI used bugzilla (during the c++ transition) for fix though, never played with REVU :-)07:20
minghuaI really should apply for a uploader on REVU07:21
minghuaif only for my own packages07:21
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Trashcani'm still connected! hurrah!08:08
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Trashcanoh great.. look what i did >:(08:12
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pefhello08:30
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Burgundavia\sh_away, fix your blog link please, you are spamming planet every few days08:35
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lucashi09:22
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lucashi12:18
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zygahello lucas12:42
lucasI'm interested in feedback about "Thoughts about management of packages in universe" in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby12:43
lucasit's basically my conclusions after yesterday's discussion here12:43
zygachecking12:43
ajmitchlucas: at UVF, nothing new is automatically imported12:45
ajmitchnot just new upstream12:45
lucasah12:45
lucassomebody said yesterday that if x.y-(z+1) releases, it gets imported12:46
ajmitchso if we have 1.2.3-1, debian has 1.2.3-9, we still have to ask for a manual sync, but it doesn't require a freeze exception12:46
tsengz.y = allowed12:46
tsengnot imported12:46
zygalucas: what about packages in ubuntu, not in debian12:46
lucaszyga: I think the main goal here is improve free software in general, and debian-based distributions in particular12:47
lucashaving packages in ubuntu but not in debian sucks, and should only happen for very short period of time12:47
tsengyou are spending more time talking about merges and syncs12:47
tsengthan you are about ruby12:47
zygalucas: okay so I've packaged alexandria and a lib it requires that is not in debian yet12:47
tsengevery motu has to deal with these issues, its not specific to ruby team12:48
=== zyga does not know any debian ruby team
lucaszyga: mail to pkg-ruby-extra@alioth.debian.org12:48
lucastseng: I know12:48
zygalucas: mail the source package?12:48
lucaszyga: a link to them12:48
ajmitchlucas: so don't stick it on a page that noone will see12:48
zygalucas: since those are my first packages I'd prefer that someone user friendly first has a look12:48
tsengajmitch: is there a breezy-changes alike for debian12:49
lucasfrom the top of the part:12:49
ajmitchtseng: hell yes12:49
ajmitchtseng: you get flooded12:49
lucas"By Lucas, feel free to edit or send comments. I put this here, *it might go elsewhere, but I dunno where.12:49
zygaI still don't have a pbuilder around and I'm generally unsure about the quality12:49
lucastseng, ajmitch: I'm tired of your angry comments.12:49
tsengi am not angry, i am critical12:49
ajmitchhaha12:49
lucasI chose to put it there because I thought people could complain if I put it elsewhere12:49
tsengthere is a large difference12:49
ajmitchyou think that was angry? ;)12:49
ajmitchtseng: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.changes.unstable/12:50
lucasthen, people complain because I put it on MOTURuby12:50
lucaszyga: try #debian-ruby@freenode12:50
lucasor more specifically paulvt@debian.org, who is my sponsor12:50
tsengMOTURuby could use a popcon sorted list12:51
tsengor as a subpage12:51
tsengcertainly useful to any group of packages of that size12:51
lucastseng: there's a list higher in the page with the command I used to generate it12:51
tsengyes, i am refering to it12:52
lucasah, yes12:52
lucaswe should create a motutools package12:52
lucaswith all those scripts12:52
lucashowever, the problem with that is that if ruby people do it, it will be in ruby, not python12:52
ajmitchmajority of my scripts are bash, actually12:53
lucasthe version comparison script might not be trivial to write in bash12:54
lucasif you want to parse the Packages file to get the versions12:54
ajmitchdpkg --compare-versions12:54
lucasajmitch: no12:54
lucasI meant a list with 2 columns : version in debian, version in ubuntu12:54
lucaswith colors etc12:55
ajmitchmy output isn't pretty, but it works12:55
lucashow do you get the version in Debian from Ubuntu ?12:55
ajmitchby using the debian package list12:56
lucasyou mean the Packages file ?12:56
kokeiirc, there was some chat about that on last meeting12:56
ajmitchI could have done it using python-apt, but I found it just as easy to do it myself12:56
ajmitchkoke: yeah12:56
kokeit's not specific to ruby12:56
ajmitchI think I was talking about it as well12:56
=== ajmitch did it in python
ajmitchbut I could have done it with a shell script12:57
kokeI think ruby team should worry about the BIG thing with Ruby nowadays12:57
kokehow to handle rubygems12:57
lucaskoke: there is a lot of work on this area in pkg-ruby-extra12:57
lucas(a debian team)12:57
ajmitchlucas: are you in the debian team?12:57
lucasyes12:57
lucas(sort of)12:58
ajmitchgood12:58
ajmitchsort of?12:58
Lathiatman12:58
Lathiatmy laptop cant run quake4 :(12:58
zygaLathiat: :D12:58
Lathiatjust tried it, chugs like a mofo12:58
Lathiatprobably the ram12:58
lucaspkg-ruby-extra is still being created12:58
Lathiatonly 256M in this12:58
zygaLathiat: where did you get quake4 packs12:58
kokelucas: then they should advertise that more on the website12:58
koke:)12:58
Lathiatzyga: somewhere? ;p12:58
lucaskoke: it's not public yet12:58
lucaskoke: there a common position12:59
lucasbut we'll try to get wider acceptance of it12:59
zygaLathiat: cannot remember, eh ;-)12:59
kokelucas: where can I read something more about that? lists archives mybe?12:59
Lathiatzyga: yeh i must have bougth it last week ;p12:59
zygaQ4 is out already?01:00
lucaskoke: 1 min01:00
kokehttp://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?RubyGems01:01
koke:)01:01
lucasmore http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?RubyGemsProposal01:01
lucasRubyGems is more like the discussion page. RubyGemsProposal is the summary01:02
lucaswhy don't we get an ubuntu-motu mailing list ?01:04
crimsunissue raised and rejected already01:05
lucasI can't find the time to follow ubuntu-devel01:05
=== ajmitch find ubuntu-devel to be a rather quiet list
crimsunyeah, compared to debian-* it's pretty tame01:05
ajmitchmaybe that's because I have > 2000 unread on debian-devel01:05
lucasthat's not the problem01:05
=== lucas has better things to do than trying to find what's relevant for his issues ;)
kokeajmitch: or maybe becasu ubuntu-devel folder is quite close to breezy-changes one ;901:06
ajmitchbreezy-changes was easy to read through ;)01:06
ajmitchmark all as read..01:06
koke:D01:06
tsengexactly01:06
lucasajmitch: if I want to move the "Thoughts about management of packages in universe" to somewhere else01:07
tsenguntil something broke01:07
tsengand you wondered who to blame01:07
lucaswhere should I move it ?01:07
ajmitchlucas: you could put it on a new wiki page if you want, and link to it from a MOTU page01:07
ajmitchI don't know where you might want it01:07
lucasmmh01:07
lucasI'll discuss this with ogra and dholback01:07
lucasdholbach01:08
ogra<lucas> having packages in ubuntu but not in debian sucks, and should only happen for very short period of time01:10
ogra??01:10
ograif we want something in, we'll package it...01:10
ograif debian doesnt adopt it, thats not our prob01:10
lucasplease #include <context>01:11
lucasanyway01:11
lucasforget about this01:11
=== zyga now understands gems
lucaszyga: the wiki page was helpful ?01:11
ograour main goal is to improve ubuntu, not "debian based distros"01:11
zygalucas: quite01:12
zygalucas: seems a little like appdirs but more convulse01:12
zygathe worst worst thing is require_gem01:12
ograits totally up to debian if it wants packages we packaged01:12
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zygait's like m$ office install on demand thing01:12
lucasogra: is this the official point of view of ubuntu ?01:12
ograyes01:12
lucasok01:12
zygait has its uses but is very difficult to join with debian packaging system01:12
ogralucas, all we can do is offer,if debian takes it its fine01:12
zygaanyone: can require_gem be hacked to invoke external command?01:12
zygaanyone: so require_gem foo will apt-get install foo-rubygem01:13
ogralucas, but we cant force anyone01:13
lucasogra: agreed.01:13
kokezyga: but that needs privilieges01:13
ograso there will always be an amount of packages we have only in ubuntu01:13
zygakoke: eh, true01:13
zygakoke: OTOH01:14
ograand this amount rises with every release, you cant do anything aginst it01:14
zygagksudo apt-get install ... ?01:14
ajmitchhi ogra :)01:14
lucasogra: yes, but it would be better to keep it low01:14
zygaand hack gksudo to provide optional explaination box :)01:14
kokezyga: what if no X? :)01:14
zygakoke: then sensible-sudo01:14
ogralucas, why ? if there is a user demand, i'll happily package everything...01:14
zygaI know it doesn't exist01:14
ograits up to debian if it is kept low, not up to us01:15
zygaeh :)01:15
lucasogra: if there's a user demand, it's strange there isn't the same user demand in debian01:15
zygathis is a minefield01:15
kokezyga: an option could be to include the name of the package and instructions to install it in the genereated exception message01:15
ajmitchlucas: our responsibilities as a community are to our users, not just to debian01:15
ogralucas, thats debians prob then01:15
kokeI wouldn't touch more than that01:15
ajmitchlucas: although individuals are welcome & encouraged to get things into debian if they wish01:15
kokezyga: and worst... if there's no terminal ??01:16
ograour responsibilitys are only in ubuntu... the responsibilitys for debian are for DDs01:16
kokethink in... mod_ruby or cgis01:16
zygakoke: okay there is no way this can work ;-)01:16
koke:D01:16
ajmitchwhich quite a few people do - they learn packaging here, get things packaged in ubuntu, and then choose to get the packages into debian01:16
zygadpkg is unable to install stuff as user01:16
zygaand it's not going to be really01:16
lucaskoke,zyga: rubygems is broken by design. hacking it in broken ways is not a good idea01:16
zygalucas: I don't concider that broken, just very very different01:17
kokelucas: what's wrong in it01:17
zygaI'd love to have install on demand in linux that works01:17
lucaszyga: mixing packaging with source code is broken01:17
kokeI don't like gems too, but I think is just a different aproach01:17
zygaand other things that exist on other platforms01:17
kokemore like rpm01:17
ograindeed every package debian adopts makes our workload lower, but we're not having the target to improve all debian based distros, as progeny doesnt have it or knoppix or linspire01:17
zygakoke: like rpm?!!01:17
lucaskoke: no, rpm packagers have raised exactly the same issues01:18
zygaa pure-ruby distro could use gems I guess01:18
zygabut then again thats irrelevant to us01:18
lucaszyga: exactly01:18
zygahow does ruby locate gems at runtime01:18
zygahardcoded gems directory?01:18
kokeI just meant the gem command reminds me to the rpm command :)01:19
lucaszyga: it doesn't01:19
=== ajmitch likes to have all his packages in both ubuntu & debian :)
lucasthe require_gem command does01:19
zygahmm01:19
zygaso how does it look stuff up?01:19
zygaand another question, can gems contain non-ruby code?01:19
lucasogra: I like ajmitch's POV, I think yours is a bit egoist. anyway, it's not important here01:20
ajmitchlucas: my POV is biased as well since I'm a DD01:20
zygaI agree with ogra01:20
zygabecause:01:20
ajmitchand so I can upload to both distros01:20
zyga1) if we get it right debian adopts it01:20
zyga2) if we get it wrong there is no point in trying to force it01:20
lucaszyga: all gems install in the same place, so it's easy to find packages01:21
zygalucas: so, hardcoded01:21
ajmitchI spent a long time working on debian that I'm not going to just abandon now01:21
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ogralucas, why is it egoistic, i work for ubuntu and not for debian... no other distro has the focus to "improve all debian based distros"01:21
zygaogra: heh, apart from...debian01:21
ograyes01:21
zygaanyway let's drop debian + ubuntu issue now01:22
zygalet's think of a way to make this work01:22
zygalucas: can gems contain non-ruby code?01:22
kokeyes, afaik01:22
ogralucas, but we do a lot more than other distros, linspire doesnt feed back anything for example... xandros as well... so its a bit mean to say i'm egoistic01:22
zygaokay is there any way to package non-ruby parts without the ruby parts?01:22
lucaszyga: gems can contain non-ruby code, they get compiled on install-time, so it requires a compiler01:22
zygalucas: that's a no option IMHO01:23
lucasogra: I was asked to contribute to MOTURuby, not the ruby team in linspire01:23
zygacompiling sucks, this is not gentoo01:23
lucasogra: I prefer to contribute to project who want to improve free software as a whole01:23
zygaogra, lucas: please stop arguing this is not helping to find the right thing to do01:23
lucasogra: not just distribution #12301:23
ogralucas, but you say that if i want to improve the distro i put work in that is egoistic01:24
zygasay guys, maybe some clubs to start bashing each other on the head?01:24
=== ajmitch knows that ogra puts in a *lot* of hard work to improve ubuntu
lucaszyga: this is not bashing, just differences in POV01:24
ogralucas, we want to improve free software but we dont want to improve "all debian based distros" thats up to the other distros to care for01:24
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zygaokay so can we stop talking about POV and start talking about thinking of a way to package ruby right?01:25
lucaszyga: can we switch the rubygems stuff to #debian-ruby ?01:25
ograwhy not #ubuntu-ruby ?01:26
zygalucas: we can probably go to #rubygems-packaging-without-install-time-compile01:26
lucasbecause it doesn't exist ?01:26
ogramake it exist, so we can point other intrested users there01:26
zygaI don't care about ubuntu vs debian I care about ruby, please01:26
zyga:)01:26
lucasogra: I'm not interested.01:26
lucasogra: do it, if you want01:26
zygaokay guys01:27
zygaplease join #zk-ruby01:27
zygaand dont talk about debian and ubuntu01:28
zygaonly about dpkg and ruby01:28
ograzyga, thats not very helpful... if you want to be the ubuntu ruby team do as all other ubuntu team do01:28
ogra*teams01:28
zygaogra: I want to resolve technical issues first01:28
zygaogra: communication issues later01:28
kokeplease #debian-ruby01:28
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zygaogra: so what do yu suggest?01:29
kokeit makes more sense to discuss all together with people who has been thinking about it for some months01:29
zygatrue01:29
zygaokay can we all agree to go to debian-ruby and talk about technical issues?01:30
ogra*sigh*01:30
ogrado as you like01:30
ograi have work to do01:30
kokeI'm already there :)01:30
zygaokay01:30
Treenaksargh, where's dholbach when you need him :)01:31
ajmitchat berlinux, iirc :)01:31
ograTreenaks, berlinux01:31
ograpresenting ubuntu and edubuntu01:31
Treenaksogra: coolness01:32
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lucashow do I send a mail to all members of a launchpad team ?01:54
KyralMornin'....01:56
kokelucas: I think there's no way to do dat01:59
kokethat01:59
lucasok01:59
lucasI'll file a wishlist bug02:00
Kyralhmm, UBZ is gonna start at like 9 AM02:02
Kyraland it takes ~ 2 1/2 hours to get to Montreal from Clarkson...02:02
ajmitchyes, same start time each day02:02
Kyralwhich means I'm gonna have to leave at about 6:30 AM to get there in time02:02
ajmitchand if it's like UDU, it'll run till 9pm or later each day :)02:02
Kyralwhich means I have to get up at 6 AM...02:03
Kyraldamn I haven't done that since High School....02:03
ajmitchnight all02:03
TreenaksLuckily my hostel seems to be close to the hotel02:03
KyralYah...getting a hotel room might be a good idea...02:04
Lathiathaha02:05
Lathiatajmitch: night02:05
KyralIt should end by 502:06
Lathiatits a hacker conference02:06
Lathiatit wont02:06
Lathiat;p02:06
Kyralgood point02:06
KyralI don't mind that02:06
Lathiatcept when your 2.5hours away? ;p02:06
Kyralits having to get up at 6 AM to make it by 9 that bugs me02:06
Lathiatsteal someones floor or something :)02:06
KyralDude I've been up to 4 AM playing HALO02:06
Lathiati've been up to 6am hacking code and then left for uni02:07
Lathiatand came back at 5p02:07
Lathiatm02:07
Lathiati think that was the most awake day at uni i ever hard02:07
Lathiatbrain probably pumping me lots of drugs02:07
Kyrallol02:09
KyralI'm thinking I'm bringin a notebook + digicam02:09
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Kyraleh?02:10
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Kyralah02:11
KyralRock on02:11
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hubKyral: clarkson? where is that?02:18
hubLathiat: it is a hacker conference, people drink beer02:19
hubso it is a bad idea to drive02:19
Lathiatheh02:19
Lathiattoo true02:20
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Lathiati wouldnt know *ah hrmm*02:20
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hubwtf, it is damn too early for me02:20
Kyralhub: Checkout www.clarkson.edu02:24
KyralI need to get going if I02:24
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hubah, it is on the other side. no womder why I don't know02:24
Kyralam gonna get breakfast in time to get to class. Damnit answering that question on the Forums took longer than I could give it02:24
hubKyral: 2.5 hours + the border crossing02:24
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KyralCome visit sometime. The COSI (cosi.clarkson.edu) would be glad to have a guest02:25
Kyralbut CYA!02:25
hubKyral: can't enter y our country02:25
Kyraly not?02:25
Kyralyanno what tell me later CLASS02:25
Kyralleave it in a PMSG02:26
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Firetechhmm, when running llxdoom (doomlegacy-x11), I get the following error when it tries to play sound (after that it crashes):02:34
Firetech"/usr/bin/llsndserv: relocation error: /usr/bin/llsndserv: symbol errno, version GLIBC_2.0 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference"02:34
Firetechrunning breezy02:34
Firetechllsndserv is part of doomlegacy-x1102:34
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lucashttp://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motucompareversion.html03:51
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lucasI have a meeting, so I'll check comments later03:52
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freeflyingwhy don't we make grub perform more beautifuly with patch from suse04:29
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dfarningHey a new Ubuntu guy here, I am interested on build the spell checking, hyphenation pattern s05:56
dfarningand thesaurus packages for OOo2.05:56
dfarningWho should I contact about that?05:56
ogradfarning, doko05:59
ogradfarning, but he's busy on a fair today06:00
dfarningIs it best to email him?06:00
ograyup06:06
dfarningogra, thanks.06:10
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LaserJockman, do you guys have any tips for reducing eyestrain, my eyes are killing me?06:52
poningrustop looking at the comp screen?06:52
jamessan|workmake sure your monitor's refresh rate is higher than 60Hz (if it's a CRT)06:53
LaserJockponingru: not what fun would that be ;-)06:53
LaserJockjamessan|work: it is a CRT and I think it is at 75Hz, maybe it's my fonts06:54
poningruhehe06:54
poningruhow old is your crt?06:54
LaserJockmaybe 2 or 3 years06:55
LaserJockit's a Dell 19" that I got when I bought a computer from them06:56
LaserJockmaybe it's the fontsize06:57
LathiatLaserJock: apt-get install workrave07:00
Lathiatits for RSI but helps eyes too. :)07:00
jamessan|workheh07:01
LaserJockLathiat: does it work? I might have to try that. Of course, I could just do so real life work too, but who want's to do that ;-)07:03
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LathiatLaserJock: yeh07:04
LathiatLaserJock: i mean you coudl always drop to a console and kill it07:04
LathiatLaserJock: but RESIST THE URGE :)07:04
Lathiatit gives you a postpone time if your in the middle of something07:04
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vuntzso08:15
vuntzis anyone working on a sysprof package?08:15
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xhakershouldn't dholbach keep repackage the tango icon theme frequently?08:32
xhakers/keep/""08:33
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crimsunxhaker: he's probably tied for time, and Dapper isn't open yet08:40
xhakercrimsun, so dapper needs to open first?08:42
crimsunxhaker: for the packages to be officially updated in Ubuntu, yes08:42
xhakerthanks for the info then :)08:42
crimsunxhaker: I don't know if he keeps an unofficial repo08:42
xhakeri thought that it could be updated since it's not in main08:43
crimsunnope, the entire pool freezes once a release goes stable08:45
crimsunonly updates are in -security and -updates08:45
crimsun(bugfix-related)08:46
xhakergreat08:46
xhakerlearned something today already08:46
xhakerwell. i kinda knew it.. but thought universe was an exception08:46
crimsunnope. In fact, we're going to be a lot more strict about upstream version freeze for Dapper due to the longer support period.08:47
crimsunhey \sh08:47
\sh*yawn*08:48
\shevening crimsun08:48
xhakercrimsun, i've been reading about that in the list08:51
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xhaker\sh, i'm developing some hatred towards your blog software08:53
xhakerinfact i don't know if it is the culprit.. but the planet.ubuntu.com has all your old blogging in the front :S08:54
xhakerusually i say08:55
\shxhaker: pls thank planet...I never touched my blog08:55
\shnot even a comment came in....08:56
\shI hate planet too...08:56
\shjdub should switch to s9y planet implementation08:56
\shwhich works (tm)08:56
xhakerthats what i thought.. it seems to happen in refreshes08:56
\shxhaker: well..I just checked everything...but not even on timestamp is changed from one day to another...and planet hickuped as always08:57
\sha mess08:57
xhakerargh.. i always have to pass through that bollywood pictures to check new posts :P08:57
\shs/on/one08:57
\shhehehe08:57
\shsry for that...it's really not my fault08:57
xhakeri wonder if it doesn't mess in the Rss08:58
=== \sh slept since 12 UTC today...so I never changed, touched, did anything
xhakerRSS08:58
xhaker:P08:58
\shxhaker: nope...the rss is generated dynamically...and the entries are out of a mysql...no change08:58
\shthe timestamps are per article...and it's set when it was posted08:59
\shxhaker: there are other planet implementations...and they don't mess around08:59
xhakeri wonder what it is that messes this one tho09:00
\shxhaker: planet works like this09:00
\shxhaker: it fetches the feeds and build a timestamp database internally...when it sees, that he had this entry, with the same timestamp, he disregard the entry and check for the newer ones.09:01
\shxhaker: I don't know what happens with my rss or any other s9y blogs rss09:01
\shs9y devs were asking to fix this bug09:02
\shbut there is nothing to fix in s9y09:02
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hervehello09:02
xhakersilly question.. are the timestamps in the same format in both?09:02
crimsunhi herve09:02
\shxhaker: the timestamps are standardized09:03
xhakerjust thought it could be misdetecting mm/dd/yyyy dd/mm/yyyy or something09:04
\shxhaker: <pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:42:59 +0200</pubDate> this is the timestamp for an article in rss209:05
xhaker<pubDate>09:05
xhaker was seeing that now :P09:05
xhakerhaha.. managed to crash firefox scrolling the rss209:07
hervethis is some HTML standard, no?09:07
hervemaybe ISO09:07
\shxhaker: hmm..no problems here09:09
xhakeri usually have no problems too09:09
xhakerdon't bother :P09:10
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=== \sh is drinking now a beer and watches some dvds....
\shlaters09:17
zyga\sh_away: cheers09:36
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slomo\sh_away: do you know how the progress with non-ascii chars and pyicq-t is?09:45
herveslomo: unicode problems in Python?10:01
slomoherve: don't know... messages coming from icq users are iso8859-1 and must be utf8... but they were working on it afaik10:07
herveseems pretty easy10:08
slomoif it was easy they would have fixed it already ;)10:09
hervefrom what you said, it's a matter of " message.decode('iso-8859-1').encode('utf-8')10:10
hervealthough any Python program is supposed to deal with Unicode internally10:10
slomoit is maybe a bit more difficult... maybe it's not always iso-8859-1 but can be different for every user and no one knows how to know what it is or whatever...10:12
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herveprobably yes10:13
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mdkehave you guys seen newton (.sf.net)?11:03
mdkeit really rocks, and needs to go into universe :)11:03
ajmitchyet another wiki? :)11:04
mdkeit is a gnome dock app personal wiki11:04
ajmitchimho the sid packages they have should go into debian11:04
mdkenot a server11:04
ajmitchand we should get them from there11:04
mdkeprobably11:05
mdkeapparently the app is written by an Ubuntu user :)11:05
ajmitchright11:05
mdkedamn it is a nice app11:06
mdkeso fast11:06
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senecastudentanyone in here?11:23
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herveyoungs and patience...11:24
herve:-)11:24
ajmitchhaha11:25
sivangwhos that user who did that app?11:27
herveThe name of Dennis reminds me someone11:31
truluxhey sivang11:39
sivanghey trulux11:43
sivangI wonder if sf.net has screenshots11:44
mdkesure11:44
mdkeloads of projects on sf.net have screenshots11:44
hervemany ones right on newton.sf.net11:46
truluxsivang: how are going things over there?11:48
sivangtrulux: fine, however I'm hitting bed now. talk to you tommorow?11:53
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hervenight all11:54
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truluxsivang: sure, sleep well!12:02

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