[12:02] <tseng> the mib path is set wrong
[12:03] <lucas> have you filed a bug ?
[12:03] <tseng> no, BTS makes my bloodpressure go up
[12:03] <tseng> when is a web interface not a web interface?
[12:05] <lucas> tseng: there's no such bug in debian. it would be great if you could file one
[12:05] <tseng> yes im aware, i searched for it
[12:05] <tseng> there are actually no bugs for libsnmp-ruby last i checked
[12:05] <lucas> then don't expect this to get fixed :-)
[12:05] <tseng> which is funny because its relatively useless with the bug
[12:05] <lucas> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=330196
[12:05] <lucas> there's this bug
[12:06] <tseng> yes that
[12:06] <lucas> seems this package is in bad shape
[12:06] <lucas> ah ok
[12:06] <tseng> very good.
[12:06] <lucas> see, the bug is in debian's BTS, not ubuntu's
[12:06] <tseng> uh
[12:06] <lucas> an example of my theory about ubuntu users being less prone to file bug reports
[12:07] <tseng> which is obviously where i looked for it
[12:07] <tseng> i file bugs to gnome
[12:07] <tseng> debian bugtracker is not usable
[12:07] <lucas> you can submit by mail
[12:08] <lucas> if your MUA allows to change some headers
[12:08] <tseng> *I* cant be arsed to submit debian bugs
[12:08] <tseng> its no wonder no one else can
[12:12] <lucas> anyway
[12:12] <lucas> if this bug report is the same bug as yours, and you have more info, just mail xxxxxx@bugs.debian.org
[12:14] <tseng> id rather make a patch
[12:14] <tseng> and give it to you
[12:15] <ajmitch> yay, another bddebian
[12:15] <lucas> the previous version worked
[12:15] <lucas> so It's probably just a packaging bug
[12:15] <lucas> I'll ping the maintainer
[12:15] <tseng> you can ping him with a patch
[12:16] <tseng>  /usr/share/doc/libsnmp-ruby1.8/yaml/ is the right path
[12:16] <tseng> 2 minutes
[12:16] <dholbach> good night guys
[12:17] <lucas> tseng: ok
[12:23] <lucas> re
[12:23] <lucas> sorry
[12:23] <lucas> killed X by mistake :-)
[12:24] <LaserJock> hiya bddebian
[12:24] <lucas> tseng: you have a patch or a better analysis of the bug ?
[12:24] <tseng> yes
[12:24] <tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/snmp-ruby-path.diff
[12:25] <tseng> the debian package insists on diverting the mibs
[12:25] <lucas> is this url stable, or should I copy the patch ?
[12:25] <tseng> its stable
[12:25] <tseng> thanks for having a look
[12:26] <lucas> np
[12:26] <tseng> i will mail it to the bts
[12:27] <lucas> ok, as you want
[12:27] <lucas> just mail 330196@bugs.debian.org
[12:29] <tseng> sent
[12:29] <lucas> ok
[12:29] <lucas> the mail queue is processed every 15 minutes I think
[12:29] <lucas> you'll receive a confirmation that your info was received
[12:30] <tseng> exciting
[12:30] <whiprush> heh
[12:30] <whiprush> poor tseng
[12:31] <lucas> tsss
[12:32] <Kyral> OMG I <3 Beagle
[12:33] <lucas> good night
[12:33] <bddebian2> Heya LaserJock
[12:34] <Kyral> Anyone know how often Beagle re-indexes?
[12:35] <tseng> good, its there
[12:35] <tseng> Kyral: um
[12:35] <tseng> Kyral: constantly
[12:35] <tseng> it uses inotify to find out when files change
[12:35] <Kyral> I mean I love this thing, but I typed in "int main()" and it didn't pick up on a file
[12:35] <whiprush> Kyral: you'll know it's working when your system starts to swap. ;p
[12:36] <Kyral> SYSTEM i686 Ubuntu (Debian) GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.13.4-GNUGenerationCustom, LIBC 2.3.5, GNU Bash Shell | CPU AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2700+, 2167Mhz, 256KB Cache, 4339 BMIPs | MEM 250/500MB RAM Used, 2/1333MB Swap Used | STORAGE 4.7GB ReiserFS, 6.5GB Ext3, 9.4GB ReiserFS, 10MB TmpFS, 154GB ReiserFS, 251MB TmpFS, 266GB ReiserFS, 603MB ISO9660 | STATS Uptime 1.19d, Users 1(1), Procs 88(51797), Load 0.20 | X11 1280x1024x24bit | http://auk
[12:36] <Kyral> what swapping ;P
[12:45] <LaserJock> bddebian2: I got my gpg key signed yesterday. I was quite excited because there were only 2 people in my area that were in the strong set (according to biglumber)
[12:45] <bddebian2> Nice
[12:46] <Kyral> No one has signed my key
[12:46] <Kyral> I hope to change that at UBZ ;P
[12:46] <LaserJock> Kyral: that would be the place :)
[12:47] <LaserJock> I'm not going to UBZ unfortunately
[12:50] <Nafallo> I went to visit Mithrandir and got my key signed, that was the last argument for making me a member and MOTU really ;-)
[12:50] <Kyral> lol
[12:51] <Nafallo> was really fun :-). I still miss Norway.
[12:53] <Kyral> Hey mitch will you sign my key at UBZ?
[12:53] <ajmitch> maybe
[12:54] <ajmitch> you've got a chance if you bring government-issued photo ID
[12:55] <Kyral> Does a Learners Permit count?
[12:55] <ajmitch> maybe
[12:55] <ajmitch> I can't really say, not having seen one :P
[12:56] <Kyral> Think Trainee Drivers License
[12:56] <Kyral> (Yes I'm 20 and I don't have a Drivers License)
[12:57] <ajmitch> but that's mainly because I live < 10 min walk from work
[12:57] <lifeless> Kyral: does it have a photo? is it government issued? does it have name, dob ?
[12:57] <tseng> his name is andrew btw
[12:58] <Kyral> Yah. It says in BIG letters "NEW YORK STATE" at the top ;P
[12:58] <ajmitch> tseng: I'm used to it by now
[12:58] <Kyral> damn thats an old pic. No wonder, it was issued in 02
[12:58] <ajmitch> Kyral: http://librarian.launchpad.net/942825/942858/vm.debdiff has wrong version
[12:58] <Kyral> I gotta get a new one next year it seems ;P
[12:59] <Kyral> eh?
[12:59] <ajmitch> should be -4ubuntu1
[12:59] <ajmitch> not -5
[12:59] <Kyral> I'll redo it
[12:59] <ajmitch> thanks
[12:59] <Kyral> Means I'll have to redownload the sourcecode and redo the patch...
[01:00] <tseng> does it?
[01:00] <Kyral> I
[01:00] <tseng> fix the changelog
[01:00] <Kyral> yah I tend to delete source packages when I'm done
[01:00] <tseng> oh good one
[01:00] <Kyral> unless they are my personal projects
[01:01] <Kyral> I'm trying to remember if I got that from Sid or not...
[01:01] <ajmitch> bbl, lunchtime
[01:03] <Kyral> Well, it looks like it doesn't matter
[01:03] <Kyral> Sid has a new version anyway
[01:04] <Kyral> Should I patch the Breezy version or the Sid version...
[01:05] <Kyral> aww hell I'll patch both and ask mitch which I should upload
[01:10] <Kyral> hey \sh
[01:11] <\sh> re
[01:11] <Kyral> Looks like I made a versioning blunder on one of my patchs :/
[01:14] <Kyral> fixed...man don't I feel like an idiot
[01:16] <LaserJock> Kyral: well look at it this way, what if it had gotten uploaded to main or something. I could have been worse
[01:17] <Kyral> good point
[01:20] <LaserJock> does anybody know what happens to subscriptions when a wikipage is renamed?
[01:23] <sivang> LaserJock: interesting quesiton
[01:23] <LaserJock> I was wanting to rename some MOTU wikipages but I don't want to destroy subscriptions that are already in place
[01:24] <Kyral> hey sivang
[01:26] <Kyral> Okay homework time...
[01:26] <sivang> hey Kyral !
[01:26] <sivang> Kyral: how is it going?
[01:26] <Kyral> Calc2 Homework....
[01:26] <Kyral> I'll tell you after I finish
[01:30] <LaserJock> calc2, I think I disliked that more than calc1 or calc3
[01:30] <LaserJock> In fact I don't think I liked it much at all ;-)
[01:31] <LaserJock> of course I'm a chemist so that's not a big suprise
[01:31] <crimsun> what about physics?
[01:31] <crimsun> did you love that?
[01:32] <LaserJock> yeah, physics was better
[01:32] <crimsun> figures. pchem is a good one with lots of yummy math.
[01:32] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I'm a pchemist so I had to do the math
[01:32] <crimsun> rockin'
[01:33] <LaserJock> I'm in my 4th year of my Phd and I can't remember much of calc2
[01:33] <LaserJock> but it wasn't pretty
[01:33] <crimsun> we just approximate anyhow :p
[01:34] <LaserJock> no kidding
[01:34] <LaserJock> I sometimes wonder why I had to do all the math classes when all I ever do is an approximation ;-)
[01:34] <crimsun> :-)
[01:35] <\sh> k..good night...#
[01:35] <LaserJock> Quantum, now there is some wierd stuff
[01:37] <LaserJock> student:"hmm, all I am getting is imaginary numbers."   Prof: "just square it and it becomes real."
[01:40] <crimsun> haha
[01:41] <LaserJock> that's why I just stick to my lasers and let the physicists handle the "real" math
[01:45] <Trashcan>  connection problems solved :)
[01:45] <Trashcan> sorry for the 200 or so join/quits earlier
[01:45] <LaserJock> great, that was definately interesting
[01:46] <LaserJock> I thought your computer had ADD or something
[01:46] <Trashcan> hehe
[01:46] <Trashcan> must have been my ISP. Everything was going haywire :(
[01:55] <LaserJock> gotta go home, cya all
[02:01] <lucas> hi
[02:01] <lucas> tseng: still here ?
[02:06] <lucas> ogra: here ?
[02:33] <Diablo_D3> hey all
[02:33] <Diablo_D3> does kubuntu have its own channel by any chance?
[02:33] <koke> Diablo_D3: #kubuntu
[02:34] <Diablo_D3> this might be interesting for people in here too: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/kdegraphics/+bug/3437
[02:46] <Kyral> Calc SUCKS
[03:32] <TiMiDo> hey people
[03:33] <LaserJock> hi
[03:33] <TiMiDo> wuz up LaserJock
[03:33] <LaserJock> not much, homework mostly
[03:38] <LaserJock> TiMiDo: how about you?
[03:38] <TiMiDo> here, dude looking at bugs, and writting some codes,
[03:38] <TiMiDo> and i want to be a motu (:
[03:39] <LaserJock> same here pretty much
[03:39] <TiMiDo> oh nice
[03:39] <LaserJock> are you an Ubuntu member yet?
[03:40] <TiMiDo> not really are you?
[03:40] <Kyral> I'm trying for it :D
[03:40] <TiMiDo> interesting
[03:40] <LaserJock> no, not yet
[03:40] <TiMiDo> oh
[03:40] <TiMiDo> what you're doing for ubuntu LaserJock?
[03:40] <Kyral> Most of my involvement has come through UbuntuForums....
[03:40] <TiMiDo> oh nice
[03:40] <LaserJock> well, right now I am working on the MOTU wiki and I have been trying to do bugfixes and
[03:41] <LaserJock> I did some on the FTBFS and UniverseUnmetDeps
[03:41] <TiMiDo> oh nice,
[03:42] <Kyral> why the heck is SourceForge being slow?
[03:42] <tseng> this shoudl come as no suprise
[03:45] <LaserJock> TiMiDo: are you documenting your work on the wiki?
[03:46] <Kyral> dangit, dholbach got to the Deskbar Applet...I thought I was gonna have an easy compile
[03:46] <LaserJock> Kyral: all the easy ones are taken ;-)
[03:46] <Kyral> NOW you tell me
[03:47] <LaserJock> well, I don't know, but that is what I would assume
[03:47] <LaserJock> since that is the way it works in life
[03:48] <Kyral> Hey if something I think should be in Universe already has a debpack, what should I do?
[03:49] <LaserJock> but it isn't in Debian?
[03:49] <Kyral> nope, isn't in Debian
[03:49] <Kyral> Author made the Debpack themselves
[03:50] <LaserJock> source?
[03:50] <Kyral> Its available
[03:50] <LaserJock> I mean a debian source package
[03:50] <Kyral> nope
[03:51] <Kyral> its a debpack or a source tarball
[03:52] <LaserJock> well, I suppose you could make a debian source from the tarball or ask the author for it but I don't think just the binary .deb is going to do
[03:52] <Kyral> No prob
[03:52] <LaserJock> I don't know though, any MOTU around
[03:52] <Kyral> this should be easy :D
[03:52] <Kyral> Thing is a frontend to Deborphan :D
[03:52] <Kyral> Which I love :D
[03:52] <LaserJock> cool
[03:59] <crimsun> ask the author for the diff.gz
[04:00] <crimsun> you obviously have access to the orig.tar.gz, since you have access to the source tarball :-)
[04:01] <Kyral> Can't I just build it myself?
[04:02] <ajmitch> if you really really want
[04:02] <ajmitch> but it's duplication of effort
[04:02] <Kyral> It'll feel good to see a clean compile for once ;P
[04:03] <ajmitch> yeah, and packaging does help you learn
[04:03] <ajmitch> I think my record is 10 min from grabbing the source tarball to having a package ready for upload
[04:03] <Kyral> lol
[04:03] <Kyral> nice :D
[04:03] <ajmitch> and in the archive < 1 hour later
[04:03] <LaserJock> wow, that seems fast
[04:04] <ajmitch> it was a simple package
[04:04] <ajmitch> and I've seen so many packages now
[04:05] <ajmitch> maybe I should do that this weekend
[04:09] <Kyral> Whoa, this is going to force a new version of DebOrphan into Ubuntu...
[04:10] <ajmitch> well we're going to get the latest from sid anyway
[04:10] <Kyral> okay, so its not a problem then I take it?
[04:10] <ajmitch> not particularly
[04:10] <Kyral> okay
[04:11] <ajmitch> as soon as dapper is open & autosyncs begin, it's open season for us
[04:11] <Kyral> I can't wait
[04:11] <ajmitch> neither can we :P
[04:11] <ajmitch> at least I can still upload ;)
[04:12] <LaserJock> kyral: is the new version of deborphan you need the one in Debian sid or is it newer?
[04:13] <ajmitch> the debian version should be the only version :)
[04:13] <ajmitch> since 1.7.18 is in sid
[04:13] <LaserJock> ajmitch: oh, ok. I didn't know but I though that might be an issue
[04:14] <Kyral> and testing is 1.7.18
[04:14] <ajmitch> testing is 1.7.17
[04:14] <ajmitch> http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/deborphan.html
[04:14] <Kyral> whooops
[04:14] <ajmitch> unless that page is behind again
[04:14] <Kyral> I meant that ;P
[04:14] <ajmitch> which is quite possible :)
[04:15] <ajmitch> sigh
[04:15] <Kyral> So what is the version number on this one?
[04:15] <ajmitch> I think I've got about 10 packages of my own to get uploaded into sid
[04:15] <ajmitch> and countless others to sponsor
[04:25] <Kyral> well if this PBuild works and it passes Lintian and Linda then it should be ready for upload tonight :D
[04:25] <ajmitch> you hope ;)
[04:25] <Kyral> Yah, I hope
[05:09] <Kyral> how do I get rid of the "build-depends-without-arch-dep" error?
[05:09] <ajmitch> is the package Architecture: all ?
[05:09] <ajmitch> or arch: any?
[05:10] <Kyral> all
[05:10] <ajmitch> Build-Depends-Indep then
[05:10] <Kyral> Ah thanks
[05:11] <Kyral> that only leaves two more warnings from Lintain
[05:11] <Kyral> changelog-should-mention-nmu
[05:11] <ajmitch> ignore the NMU warning
[05:11] <Kyral> and
[05:11] <ajmitch> it's a debianism
[05:11] <Kyral> source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.1.0-0ubuntu1
[05:11] <ajmitch> though you should make sure that Maintainer is set properly in debian/control
[05:12] <Kyral> I believe it is
[05:14] <Kyral> wait...dangit I put an extra space between my name and my email
[05:14] <ajmitch> :)
[05:14] <Kyral> Lintain checks out, Linda checks out
[05:15] <ajmitch> now to see if it gets past the MOTU review
[05:15] <Kyral> If it doesn't I'll just fix it until it does :D
[05:15] <Kyral> Its not like I've been doing this for months
[05:15] <ajmitch> hehe
[05:17] <Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/osx1y737.html <--ugly, ugly python code
[05:17] <Kyral> Uploaded to REVU
[05:17] <Kyral> have fun blasting it apart ajmitch ;P
[05:33] <hub> I didn't follow
[05:33] <hub> that dapper drake been open?
[05:33] <hub> s/that/has/
[05:34] <hub> I'll have a lot of time now
[05:34] <Amaranth> #ubuntu-devel says the topic will change when dapper opens
[05:34] <Amaranth> so i guess not
[05:34] <hub> ah well
[05:35] <hub> thanks
[06:44] <tritium> I can't find irc logs of the meeting from the 18th
[06:44] <tritium> there's no -meeting log for that day, and the -motu log is empty on people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[06:44] <Lathiat> i think someone is running a logbot
[06:44] <Lathiat> fabbione or something
[06:44] <Lathiat> ah
[06:45] <tritium> yeah, thanks, but I think something's wrong with it
[06:45] <Lathiat> annoy fabbione i guess :)
[06:46] <tritium> heh
[06:49] <ajmitch> and I've got my own log
[06:49] <tritium> Oh, thanks, ajmitch.  I could not attend.  I'm on business travel, and had a dinner meeting.
[06:49] <ajmitch> understandable :)
[06:49] <tritium> :)
[07:16] <minghua> just a quick question - is REVU for NEW universe packages only, or all universe packages?
[07:17] <crimsun> NEW
[07:18] <minghua> crimsun: oh, thanks.  I just see my debian package on REVU list, thus the question
[07:18] <minghua> the package in question is scim.  freeflying, you may want to know this
[07:19] <ajmitch> people have been using it for posting fixes as well as NEW
[07:19] <crimsun> yeah, I've been recommending it as a stop-gap until dapper opens, too
[07:20] <minghua> ajmitch: oh I see, that makes sense
[07:20] <crimsun> geez, OOo2 final out yesterday, and already people asking for it
[07:20] <minghua> I used bugzilla (during the c++ transition) for fix though, never played with REVU :-)
[07:21] <minghua> I really should apply for a uploader on REVU
[07:21] <minghua> if only for my own packages
[08:08] <Trashcan> i'm still connected! hurrah!
[08:12] <Trashcan> oh great.. look what i did >:(
[08:30] <pef> hello
[08:35] <Burgundavia> \sh_away, fix your blog link please, you are spamming planet every few days
[09:22] <lucas> hi
[12:18] <lucas> hi
[12:42] <zyga> hello lucas
[12:43] <lucas> I'm interested in feedback about "Thoughts about management of packages in universe" in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
[12:43] <lucas> it's basically my conclusions after yesterday's discussion here
[12:43] <zyga> checking
[12:45] <ajmitch> lucas: at UVF, nothing new is automatically imported
[12:45] <ajmitch> not just new upstream
[12:45] <lucas> ah
[12:46] <lucas> somebody said yesterday that if x.y-(z+1) releases, it gets imported
[12:46] <ajmitch> so if we have 1.2.3-1, debian has 1.2.3-9, we still have to ask for a manual sync, but it doesn't require a freeze exception
[12:46] <tseng> z.y = allowed
[12:46] <tseng> not imported
[12:46] <zyga> lucas: what about packages in ubuntu, not in debian
[12:47] <lucas> zyga: I think the main goal here is improve free software in general, and debian-based distributions in particular
[12:47] <lucas> having packages in ubuntu but not in debian sucks, and should only happen for very short period of time
[12:47] <tseng> you are spending more time talking about merges and syncs
[12:47] <tseng> than you are about ruby
[12:47] <zyga> lucas: okay so I've packaged alexandria and a lib it requires that is not in debian yet
[12:48] <tseng> every motu has to deal with these issues, its not specific to ruby team
[12:48] <lucas> zyga: mail to pkg-ruby-extra@alioth.debian.org
[12:48] <lucas> tseng: I know
[12:48] <zyga> lucas: mail the source package?
[12:48] <lucas> zyga: a link to them
[12:48] <ajmitch> lucas: so don't stick it on a page that noone will see
[12:48] <zyga> lucas: since those are my first packages I'd prefer that someone user friendly first has a look
[12:49] <tseng> ajmitch: is there a breezy-changes alike for debian
[12:49] <lucas> from the top of the part:
[12:49] <ajmitch> tseng: hell yes
[12:49] <ajmitch> tseng: you get flooded
[12:49] <lucas> "By Lucas, feel free to edit or send comments. I put this here, *it might go elsewhere, but I dunno where.
[12:49] <zyga> I still don't have a pbuilder around and I'm generally unsure about the quality
[12:49] <lucas> tseng, ajmitch: I'm tired of your angry comments.
[12:49] <tseng> i am not angry, i am critical
[12:49] <ajmitch> haha
[12:49] <lucas> I chose to put it there because I thought people could complain if I put it elsewhere
[12:49] <tseng> there is a large difference
[12:49] <ajmitch> you think that was angry? ;)
[12:50] <ajmitch> tseng: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.changes.unstable/
[12:50] <lucas> then, people complain because I put it on MOTURuby
[12:50] <lucas> zyga: try #debian-ruby@freenode
[12:50] <lucas> or more specifically paulvt@debian.org, who is my sponsor
[12:51] <tseng> MOTURuby could use a popcon sorted list
[12:51] <tseng> or as a subpage
[12:51] <tseng> certainly useful to any group of packages of that size
[12:51] <lucas> tseng: there's a list higher in the page with the command I used to generate it
[12:52] <tseng> yes, i am refering to it
[12:52] <lucas> ah, yes
[12:52] <lucas> we should create a motutools package
[12:52] <lucas> with all those scripts
[12:52] <lucas> however, the problem with that is that if ruby people do it, it will be in ruby, not python
[12:53] <ajmitch> majority of my scripts are bash, actually
[12:54] <lucas> the version comparison script might not be trivial to write in bash
[12:54] <lucas> if you want to parse the Packages file to get the versions
[12:54] <ajmitch> dpkg --compare-versions
[12:54] <lucas> ajmitch: no
[12:54] <lucas> I meant a list with 2 columns : version in debian, version in ubuntu
[12:55] <lucas> with colors etc
[12:55] <ajmitch> my output isn't pretty, but it works
[12:55] <lucas> how do you get the version in Debian from Ubuntu ?
[12:56] <ajmitch> by using the debian package list
[12:56] <lucas> you mean the Packages file ?
[12:56] <koke> iirc, there was some chat about that on last meeting
[12:56] <ajmitch> I could have done it using python-apt, but I found it just as easy to do it myself
[12:56] <ajmitch> koke: yeah
[12:56] <koke> it's not specific to ruby
[12:56] <ajmitch> I think I was talking about it as well
[12:57] <ajmitch> but I could have done it with a shell script
[12:57] <koke> I think ruby team should worry about the BIG thing with Ruby nowadays
[12:57] <koke> how to handle rubygems
[12:57] <lucas> koke: there is a lot of work on this area in pkg-ruby-extra
[12:57] <lucas> (a debian team)
[12:57] <ajmitch> lucas: are you in the debian team?
[12:57] <lucas> yes
[12:58] <lucas> (sort of)
[12:58] <ajmitch> good
[12:58] <ajmitch> sort of?
[12:58] <Lathiat> man
[12:58] <Lathiat> my laptop cant run quake4 :(
[12:58] <zyga> Lathiat: :D
[12:58] <Lathiat> just tried it, chugs like a mofo
[12:58] <Lathiat> probably the ram
[12:58] <lucas> pkg-ruby-extra is still being created
[12:58] <Lathiat> only 256M in this
[12:58] <zyga> Lathiat: where did you get quake4 packs
[12:58] <koke> lucas: then they should advertise that more on the website
[12:58] <koke> :)
[12:58] <Lathiat> zyga: somewhere? ;p
[12:58] <lucas> koke: it's not public yet
[12:59] <lucas> koke: there a common position
[12:59] <lucas> but we'll try to get wider acceptance of it
[12:59] <zyga> Lathiat: cannot remember, eh ;-)
[12:59] <koke> lucas: where can I read something more about that? lists archives mybe?
[12:59] <Lathiat> zyga: yeh i must have bougth it last week ;p
[01:00] <zyga> Q4 is out already?
[01:00] <lucas> koke: 1 min
[01:01] <koke> http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?RubyGems
[01:01] <koke> :)
[01:01] <lucas> more http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?RubyGemsProposal
[01:02] <lucas> RubyGems is more like the discussion page. RubyGemsProposal is the summary
[01:04] <lucas> why don't we get an ubuntu-motu mailing list ?
[01:05] <crimsun> issue raised and rejected already
[01:05] <lucas> I can't find the time to follow ubuntu-devel
[01:05] <crimsun> yeah, compared to debian-* it's pretty tame
[01:05] <ajmitch> maybe that's because I have > 2000 unread on debian-devel
[01:05] <lucas> that's not the problem
[01:06] <koke> ajmitch: or maybe becasu ubuntu-devel folder is quite close to breezy-changes one ;9
[01:06] <ajmitch> breezy-changes was easy to read through ;)
[01:06] <ajmitch> mark all as read..
[01:06] <koke> :D
[01:06] <tseng> exactly
[01:07] <lucas> ajmitch: if I want to move the "Thoughts about management of packages in universe" to somewhere else
[01:07] <tseng> until something broke
[01:07] <tseng> and you wondered who to blame
[01:07] <lucas> where should I move it ?
[01:07] <ajmitch> lucas: you could put it on a new wiki page if you want, and link to it from a MOTU page
[01:07] <ajmitch> I don't know where you might want it
[01:07] <lucas> mmh
[01:07] <lucas> I'll discuss this with ogra and dholback
[01:08] <lucas> dholbach
 having packages in ubuntu but not in debian sucks, and should only happen for very short period of time
[01:10] <ogra> ??
[01:10] <ogra> if we want something in, we'll package it...
[01:10] <ogra> if debian doesnt adopt it, thats not our prob
[01:11] <lucas> please #include <context>
[01:11] <lucas> anyway
[01:11] <lucas> forget about this
[01:11] <lucas> zyga: the wiki page was helpful ?
[01:11] <ogra> our main goal is to improve ubuntu, not "debian based distros"
[01:12] <zyga> lucas: quite
[01:12] <zyga> lucas: seems a little like appdirs but more convulse
[01:12] <zyga> the worst worst thing is require_gem
[01:12] <ogra> its totally up to debian if it wants packages we packaged
[01:12] <zyga> it's like m$ office install on demand thing
[01:12] <lucas> ogra: is this the official point of view of ubuntu ?
[01:12] <ogra> yes
[01:12] <lucas> ok
[01:12] <zyga> it has its uses but is very difficult to join with debian packaging system
[01:12] <ogra> lucas, all we can do is offer,if debian takes it its fine
[01:12] <zyga> anyone: can require_gem be hacked to invoke external command?
[01:13] <zyga> anyone: so require_gem foo will apt-get install foo-rubygem
[01:13] <ogra> lucas, but we cant force anyone
[01:13] <lucas> ogra: agreed.
[01:13] <koke> zyga: but that needs privilieges
[01:13] <ogra> so there will always be an amount of packages we have only in ubuntu
[01:13] <zyga> koke: eh, true
[01:14] <zyga> koke: OTOH
[01:14] <ogra> and this amount rises with every release, you cant do anything aginst it
[01:14] <zyga> gksudo apt-get install ... ?
[01:14] <ajmitch> hi ogra :)
[01:14] <lucas> ogra: yes, but it would be better to keep it low
[01:14] <zyga> and hack gksudo to provide optional explaination box :)
[01:14] <koke> zyga: what if no X? :)
[01:14] <zyga> koke: then sensible-sudo
[01:14] <ogra> lucas, why ? if there is a user demand, i'll happily package everything...
[01:14] <zyga> I know it doesn't exist
[01:15] <ogra> its up to debian if it is kept low, not up to us
[01:15] <zyga> eh :)
[01:15] <lucas> ogra: if there's a user demand, it's strange there isn't the same user demand in debian
[01:15] <zyga> this is a minefield
[01:15] <koke> zyga: an option could be to include the name of the package and instructions to install it in the genereated exception message
[01:15] <ajmitch> lucas: our responsibilities as a community are to our users, not just to debian
[01:15] <ogra> lucas, thats debians prob then
[01:15] <koke> I wouldn't touch more than that
[01:15] <ajmitch> lucas: although individuals are welcome & encouraged to get things into debian if they wish
[01:16] <koke> zyga: and worst... if there's no terminal ??
[01:16] <ogra> our responsibilitys are only in ubuntu... the responsibilitys for debian are for DDs
[01:16] <koke> think in... mod_ruby or cgis
[01:16] <zyga> koke: okay there is no way this can work ;-)
[01:16] <koke> :D
[01:16] <ajmitch> which quite a few people do - they learn packaging here, get things packaged in ubuntu, and then choose to get the packages into debian
[01:16] <zyga> dpkg is unable to install stuff as user
[01:16] <zyga> and it's not going to be really
[01:16] <lucas> koke,zyga: rubygems is broken by design. hacking it in broken ways is not a good idea
[01:17] <zyga> lucas: I don't concider that broken, just very very different
[01:17] <koke> lucas: what's wrong in it
[01:17] <zyga> I'd love to have install on demand in linux that works
[01:17] <lucas> zyga: mixing packaging with source code is broken
[01:17] <koke> I don't like gems too, but I think is just a different aproach
[01:17] <zyga> and other things that exist on other platforms
[01:17] <koke> more like rpm
[01:17] <ogra> indeed every package debian adopts makes our workload lower, but we're not having the target to improve all debian based distros, as progeny doesnt have it or knoppix or linspire
[01:17] <zyga> koke: like rpm?!!
[01:18] <lucas> koke: no, rpm packagers have raised exactly the same issues
[01:18] <zyga> a pure-ruby distro could use gems I guess
[01:18] <zyga> but then again thats irrelevant to us
[01:18] <lucas> zyga: exactly
[01:18] <zyga> how does ruby locate gems at runtime
[01:18] <zyga> hardcoded gems directory?
[01:19] <koke> I just meant the gem command reminds me to the rpm command :)
[01:19] <lucas> zyga: it doesn't
[01:19] <lucas> the require_gem command does
[01:19] <zyga> hmm
[01:19] <zyga> so how does it look stuff up?
[01:19] <zyga> and another question, can gems contain non-ruby code?
[01:20] <lucas> ogra: I like ajmitch's POV, I think yours is a bit egoist. anyway, it's not important here
[01:20] <ajmitch> lucas: my POV is biased as well since I'm a DD
[01:20] <zyga> I agree with ogra
[01:20] <zyga> because:
[01:20] <ajmitch> and so I can upload to both distros
[01:20] <zyga> 1) if we get it right debian adopts it
[01:20] <zyga> 2) if we get it wrong there is no point in trying to force it
[01:21] <lucas> zyga: all gems install in the same place, so it's easy to find packages
[01:21] <zyga> lucas: so, hardcoded
[01:21] <ajmitch> I spent a long time working on debian that I'm not going to just abandon now
[01:21] <ogra> lucas, why is it egoistic, i work for ubuntu and not for debian... no other distro has the focus to "improve all debian based distros"
[01:21] <zyga> ogra: heh, apart from...debian
[01:21] <ogra> yes
[01:22] <zyga> anyway let's drop debian + ubuntu issue now
[01:22] <zyga> let's think of a way to make this work
[01:22] <zyga> lucas: can gems contain non-ruby code?
[01:22] <koke> yes, afaik
[01:22] <ogra> lucas, but we do a lot more than other distros, linspire doesnt feed back anything for example... xandros as well... so its a bit mean to say i'm egoistic
[01:22] <zyga> okay is there any way to package non-ruby parts without the ruby parts?
[01:22] <lucas> zyga: gems can contain non-ruby code, they get compiled on install-time, so it requires a compiler
[01:23] <zyga> lucas: that's a no option IMHO
[01:23] <lucas> ogra: I was asked to contribute to MOTURuby, not the ruby team in linspire
[01:23] <zyga> compiling sucks, this is not gentoo
[01:23] <lucas> ogra: I prefer to contribute to project who want to improve free software as a whole
[01:23] <zyga> ogra, lucas: please stop arguing this is not helping to find the right thing to do
[01:23] <lucas> ogra: not just distribution #123
[01:24] <ogra> lucas, but you say that if i want to improve the distro i put work in that is egoistic
[01:24] <zyga> say guys, maybe some clubs to start bashing each other on the head?
[01:24] <lucas> zyga: this is not bashing, just differences in POV
[01:24] <ogra> lucas, we want to improve free software but we dont want to improve "all debian based distros" thats up to the other distros to care for
[01:25] <zyga> okay so can we stop talking about POV and start talking about thinking of a way to package ruby right?
[01:25] <lucas> zyga: can we switch the rubygems stuff to #debian-ruby ?
[01:26] <ogra> why not #ubuntu-ruby ?
[01:26] <zyga> lucas: we can probably go to #rubygems-packaging-without-install-time-compile
[01:26] <lucas> because it doesn't exist ?
[01:26] <ogra> make it exist, so we can point other intrested users there
[01:26] <zyga> I don't care about ubuntu vs debian I care about ruby, please
[01:26] <zyga> :)
[01:26] <lucas> ogra: I'm not interested.
[01:26] <lucas> ogra: do it, if you want
[01:27] <zyga> okay guys
[01:27] <zyga> please join #zk-ruby
[01:28] <zyga> and dont talk about debian and ubuntu
[01:28] <zyga> only about dpkg and ruby
[01:28] <ogra> zyga, thats not very helpful... if you want to be the ubuntu ruby team do as all other ubuntu team do
[01:28] <ogra> *teams
[01:28] <zyga> ogra: I want to resolve technical issues first
[01:28] <zyga> ogra: communication issues later
[01:28] <koke> please #debian-ruby
[01:29] <zyga> ogra: so what do yu suggest?
[01:29] <koke> it makes more sense to discuss all together with people who has been thinking about it for some months
[01:29] <zyga> true
[01:30] <zyga> okay can we all agree to go to debian-ruby and talk about technical issues?
[01:30] <ogra> *sigh*
[01:30] <ogra> do as you like
[01:30] <ogra> i have work to do
[01:30] <koke> I'm already there :)
[01:30] <zyga> okay
[01:31] <Treenaks> argh, where's dholbach when you need him :)
[01:31] <ajmitch> at berlinux, iirc :)
[01:31] <ogra> Treenaks, berlinux
[01:31] <ogra> presenting ubuntu and edubuntu
[01:32] <Treenaks> ogra: coolness
[01:54] <lucas> how do I send a mail to all members of a launchpad team ?
[01:56] <Kyral> Mornin'....
[01:59] <koke> lucas: I think there's no way to do dat
[01:59] <koke> that
[01:59] <lucas> ok
[02:00] <lucas> I'll file a wishlist bug
[02:02] <Kyral> hmm, UBZ is gonna start at like 9 AM
[02:02] <Kyral> and it takes ~ 2 1/2 hours to get to Montreal from Clarkson...
[02:02] <ajmitch> yes, same start time each day
[02:02] <Kyral> which means I'm gonna have to leave at about 6:30 AM to get there in time
[02:02] <ajmitch> and if it's like UDU, it'll run till 9pm or later each day :)
[02:03] <Kyral> which means I have to get up at 6 AM...
[02:03] <Kyral> damn I haven't done that since High School....
[02:03] <ajmitch> night all
[02:03] <Treenaks> Luckily my hostel seems to be close to the hotel
[02:04] <Kyral> Yah...getting a hotel room might be a good idea...
[02:05] <Lathiat> haha
[02:05] <Lathiat> ajmitch: night
[02:06] <Kyral> It should end by 5
[02:06] <Lathiat> its a hacker conference
[02:06] <Lathiat> it wont
[02:06] <Lathiat> ;p
[02:06] <Kyral> good point
[02:06] <Kyral> I don't mind that
[02:06] <Lathiat> cept when your 2.5hours away? ;p
[02:06] <Kyral> its having to get up at 6 AM to make it by 9 that bugs me
[02:06] <Lathiat> steal someones floor or something :)
[02:06] <Kyral> Dude I've been up to 4 AM playing HALO
[02:07] <Lathiat> i've been up to 6am hacking code and then left for uni
[02:07] <Lathiat> and came back at 5p
[02:07] <Lathiat> m
[02:07] <Lathiat> i think that was the most awake day at uni i ever hard
[02:07] <Lathiat> brain probably pumping me lots of drugs
[02:09] <Kyral> lol
[02:09] <Kyral> I'm thinking I'm bringin a notebook + digicam
[02:10] <Kyral> eh?
[02:11] <Kyral> ah
[02:11] <Kyral> Rock on
[02:18] <hub> Kyral: clarkson? where is that?
[02:19] <hub> Lathiat: it is a hacker conference, people drink beer
[02:19] <hub> so it is a bad idea to drive
[02:19] <Lathiat> heh
[02:20] <Lathiat> too true
[02:20] <Lathiat> i wouldnt know *ah hrmm*
[02:20] <hub> wtf, it is damn too early for me
[02:24] <Kyral> hub: Checkout www.clarkson.edu
[02:24] <Kyral> I need to get going if I
[02:24] <hub> ah, it is on the other side. no womder why I don't know
[02:24] <Kyral> am gonna get breakfast in time to get to class. Damnit answering that question on the Forums took longer than I could give it
[02:24] <hub> Kyral: 2.5 hours + the border crossing
[02:25] <Kyral> Come visit sometime. The COSI (cosi.clarkson.edu) would be glad to have a guest
[02:25] <Kyral> but CYA!
[02:25] <hub> Kyral: can't enter y our country
[02:25] <Kyral> y not?
[02:25] <Kyral> yanno what tell me later CLASS
[02:26] <Kyral> leave it in a PMSG
[02:34] <Firetech> hmm, when running llxdoom (doomlegacy-x11), I get the following error when it tries to play sound (after that it crashes):
[02:34] <Firetech> "/usr/bin/llsndserv: relocation error: /usr/bin/llsndserv: symbol errno, version GLIBC_2.0 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference"
[02:34] <Firetech> running breezy
[02:34] <Firetech> llsndserv is part of doomlegacy-x11
[03:51] <lucas> http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motucompareversion.html
[03:52] <lucas> I have a meeting, so I'll check comments later
[04:29] <freeflying> why don't we make grub perform more beautifuly with patch from suse
[05:56] <dfarning> Hey a new Ubuntu guy here, I am interested on build the spell checking, hyphenation pattern s
[05:56] <dfarning> and thesaurus packages for OOo2.
[05:56] <dfarning> Who should I contact about that?
[05:59] <ogra> dfarning, doko
[06:00] <ogra> dfarning, but he's busy on a fair today
[06:00] <dfarning> Is it best to email him?
[06:06] <ogra> yup
[06:10] <dfarning> ogra, thanks.
[06:52] <LaserJock> man, do you guys have any tips for reducing eyestrain, my eyes are killing me?
[06:52] <poningru> stop looking at the comp screen?
[06:53] <jamessan|work> make sure your monitor's refresh rate is higher than 60Hz (if it's a CRT)
[06:53] <LaserJock> poningru: not what fun would that be ;-)
[06:54] <LaserJock> jamessan|work: it is a CRT and I think it is at 75Hz, maybe it's my fonts
[06:54] <poningru> hehe
[06:54] <poningru> how old is your crt?
[06:55] <LaserJock> maybe 2 or 3 years
[06:56] <LaserJock> it's a Dell 19" that I got when I bought a computer from them
[06:57] <LaserJock> maybe it's the fontsize
[07:00] <Lathiat> LaserJock: apt-get install workrave
[07:00] <Lathiat> its for RSI but helps eyes too. :)
[07:01] <jamessan|work> heh
[07:03] <LaserJock> Lathiat: does it work? I might have to try that. Of course, I could just do so real life work too, but who want's to do that ;-)
[07:04] <Lathiat> LaserJock: yeh
[07:04] <Lathiat> LaserJock: i mean you coudl always drop to a console and kill it
[07:04] <Lathiat> LaserJock: but RESIST THE URGE :)
[07:04] <Lathiat> it gives you a postpone time if your in the middle of something
[08:15] <vuntz> so
[08:15] <vuntz> is anyone working on a sysprof package?
[08:32] <xhaker> shouldn't dholbach keep repackage the tango icon theme frequently?
[08:33] <xhaker> s/keep/""
[08:40] <crimsun> xhaker: he's probably tied for time, and Dapper isn't open yet
[08:42] <xhaker> crimsun, so dapper needs to open first?
[08:42] <crimsun> xhaker: for the packages to be officially updated in Ubuntu, yes
[08:42] <xhaker> thanks for the info then :)
[08:42] <crimsun> xhaker: I don't know if he keeps an unofficial repo
[08:43] <xhaker> i thought that it could be updated since it's not in main
[08:45] <crimsun> nope, the entire pool freezes once a release goes stable
[08:45] <crimsun> only updates are in -security and -updates
[08:46] <crimsun> (bugfix-related)
[08:46] <xhaker> great
[08:46] <xhaker> learned something today already
[08:46] <xhaker> well. i kinda knew it.. but thought universe was an exception
[08:47] <crimsun> nope. In fact, we're going to be a lot more strict about upstream version freeze for Dapper due to the longer support period.
[08:47] <crimsun> hey \sh
[08:48] <\sh> *yawn*
[08:48] <\sh> evening crimsun
[08:51] <xhaker> crimsun, i've been reading about that in the list
[08:53] <xhaker> \sh, i'm developing some hatred towards your blog software
[08:54] <xhaker> infact i don't know if it is the culprit.. but the planet.ubuntu.com has all your old blogging in the front :S
[08:55] <xhaker> usually i say
[08:55] <\sh> xhaker: pls thank planet...I never touched my blog
[08:56] <\sh> not even a comment came in....
[08:56] <\sh> I hate planet too...
[08:56] <\sh> jdub should switch to s9y planet implementation
[08:56] <\sh> which works (tm)
[08:56] <xhaker> thats what i thought.. it seems to happen in refreshes
[08:57] <\sh> xhaker: well..I just checked everything...but not even on timestamp is changed from one day to another...and planet hickuped as always
[08:57] <\sh> a mess
[08:57] <xhaker> argh.. i always have to pass through that bollywood pictures to check new posts :P
[08:57] <\sh> s/on/one
[08:57] <\sh> hehehe
[08:57] <\sh> sry for that...it's really not my fault
[08:58] <xhaker> i wonder if it doesn't mess in the Rss
[08:58] <xhaker> RSS
[08:58] <xhaker> :P
[08:58] <\sh> xhaker: nope...the rss is generated dynamically...and the entries are out of a mysql...no change
[08:59] <\sh> the timestamps are per article...and it's set when it was posted
[08:59] <\sh> xhaker: there are other planet implementations...and they don't mess around
[09:00] <xhaker> i wonder what it is that messes this one tho
[09:00] <\sh> xhaker: planet works like this
[09:01] <\sh> xhaker: it fetches the feeds and build a timestamp database internally...when it sees, that he had this entry, with the same timestamp, he disregard the entry and check for the newer ones.
[09:01] <\sh> xhaker: I don't know what happens with my rss or any other s9y blogs rss
[09:02] <\sh> s9y devs were asking to fix this bug
[09:02] <\sh> but there is nothing to fix in s9y
[09:02] <herve> hello
[09:02] <xhaker> silly question.. are the timestamps in the same format in both?
[09:02] <crimsun> hi herve
[09:03] <\sh> xhaker: the timestamps are standardized
[09:04] <xhaker> just thought it could be misdetecting mm/dd/yyyy dd/mm/yyyy or something
[09:05] <\sh> xhaker: <pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:42:59 +0200</pubDate> this is the timestamp for an article in rss2

[09:05] <xhaker>  was seeing that now :P
[09:07] <xhaker> haha.. managed to crash firefox scrolling the rss2
[09:07] <herve> this is some HTML standard, no?
[09:07] <herve> maybe ISO
[09:09] <\sh> xhaker: hmm..no problems here
[09:09] <xhaker> i usually have no problems too
[09:10] <xhaker> don't bother :P
[09:17] <\sh> laters
[09:36] <zyga> \sh_away: cheers
[09:45] <slomo> \sh_away: do you know how the progress with non-ascii chars and pyicq-t is?
[10:01] <herve> slomo: unicode problems in Python?
[10:07] <slomo> herve: don't know... messages coming from icq users are iso8859-1 and must be utf8... but they were working on it afaik
[10:08] <herve> seems pretty easy
[10:09] <slomo> if it was easy they would have fixed it already ;)
[10:10] <herve> from what you said, it's a matter of " message.decode('iso-8859-1').encode('utf-8')
[10:10] <herve> although any Python program is supposed to deal with Unicode internally
[10:12] <slomo> it is maybe a bit more difficult... maybe it's not always iso-8859-1 but can be different for every user and no one knows how to know what it is or whatever...
[10:13] <herve> probably yes
[11:03] <mdke> have you guys seen newton (.sf.net)?
[11:03] <mdke> it really rocks, and needs to go into universe :)
[11:04] <ajmitch> yet another wiki? :)
[11:04] <mdke> it is a gnome dock app personal wiki
[11:04] <ajmitch> imho the sid packages they have should go into debian
[11:04] <mdke> not a server
[11:04] <ajmitch> and we should get them from there
[11:05] <mdke> probably
[11:05] <mdke> apparently the app is written by an Ubuntu user :)
[11:05] <ajmitch> right
[11:06] <mdke> damn it is a nice app
[11:06] <mdke> so fast
[11:23] <senecastudent> anyone in here?
[11:24] <herve> youngs and patience...
[11:24] <herve> :-)
[11:25] <ajmitch> haha
[11:27] <sivang> whos that user who did that app?
[11:31] <herve> The name of Dennis reminds me someone
[11:39] <trulux> hey sivang
[11:43] <sivang> hey trulux
[11:44] <sivang> I wonder if sf.net has screenshots
[11:44] <mdke> sure
[11:44] <mdke> loads of projects on sf.net have screenshots
[11:46] <herve> many ones right on newton.sf.net
[11:48] <trulux> sivang: how are going things over there?
[11:53] <sivang> trulux: fine, however I'm hitting bed now. talk to you tommorow?
[11:54] <herve> night all
[12:02] <trulux> sivang: sure, sleep well!