[12:06] <mdke> btw did anyone get istanbul working?
[12:06] <mdke> i'd love to know how
[12:12] <tseng> dholbach did
[12:13] <mdke> tseng, it doesn't work in breezy
[12:13] <tseng> sorry.
[12:13] <mdke> you mean, dholbach got it working for breezy, or he knows how to fix it?
[12:14] <tseng> he got it working
[12:14] <mdke> in breezy, or on his own machine?
[12:14] <tseng> i am pointing in directions, you are talking to the wrong guy
[12:14] <mdke> ok
[12:15] <mdke> sorry
[12:15] <Kyral> Holy **** the Kernel Devel mailing list gets a lot of traffic
[12:43] <alekz> hi, how can i have a inklevel meter ?
[12:54] <Lord_Maynoth> anyone here
[01:02] <Kyral> Yah
[01:52] <LaserJock> ajmitch: so does that mean you can waste more time on Ubuntu ;-)
[01:54] <ajmitch> LaserJock: means I can afford UBZ ;)
[01:54] <LaserJock> well, that is important then
[01:58] <LaserJock> ajmitch: have you set up a Debian chroot from Ubuntu before?
[01:58] <ajmitch> yes
[01:58] <ajmitch> I regularly use it
[01:59] <LaserJock> do you use debootstrap?
[01:59] <ajmitch> yes
[02:00] <LaserJock> ok, I am looking at the DebootstrapChroot wiki page and it seems to indicate that debootstrap is distribution specific (Breezy, Hoary, Sid, etc.) is that right?
[02:01] <ajmitch> yup
[02:02] <ajmitch> for example.. debootstrap sid /sid-root http://ftp.debian.org/debian/
[02:02] <LaserJock> on the wiki though you install a different version of debootstrap depending on which one you want. Is that neccessary?
[02:02] <ajmitch> no
[02:03] <ajmitch> that was necessary at the time
[02:03] <ajmitch> since hoary's debootstrap wasn't setup to create a breezy chroot
[02:03] <LaserJock> ok
[02:03] <LaserJock> but will I be able to install breezy
[02:04] <LaserJock> debootstrap and be able to get Dapper
[02:04] <ajmitch> nope
[02:04] <ajmitch> you'd dist-upgrade a breezy chroot
[02:04] <ajmitch> which is what I'll probably do
[02:05] <LaserJock> ohhh, that makes sense
[02:05] <LaserJock> but I could install the debootstrap from Breezy and make a sid chroot?
[02:07] <ajmitch> yes
[02:09] <LaserJock> ohhh, I see that there are scripts for the dists in /usr/lib/deboootstrap/scripts so that is why
[02:10] <ajmitch> yep
[02:10] <ajmitch> that's why the current debootstrap won't do dapper
[02:11] <ajmitch> maybe for dapper we'll put in a script once we know the name of dapper+1
[02:12] <LaserJock> ok, thanks ajmitch. I think I will be using chroots a fair amount from now on. Before I was just installing distros on spare partitions
[02:13] <crimsun> chroots are handy
[02:13] <ajmitch> certainly
[02:13] <crimsun> I have 64-bit and 32-bit ones in addition to the pbuilders
[02:14] <ajmitch> I think I've got hoary, breezy, sarge & sid chroots
[02:14] <ajmitch> as well as pbuilders
[02:14] <Trashcan> would someone mind unbanning me from #ubuntu? my connection is fixed for the time being :)
[02:14] <LaserJock> you can have more than one pbuilder?
[02:15] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sure
[02:15] <ajmitch> you just have separate base tarballs
[02:15] <ajmitch> and possibly separate configs
[02:15] <LaserJock> wow! It gets better all the time
[02:15] <ajmitch> cat `which bbuild`
[02:15] <ajmitch> #!/bin/sh
[02:15] <ajmitch> sudo pbuilder build $PBOPT --configfile ~/debian/pbuilder/configs/breezy.pbuilderrc $@
[02:15] <ajmitch> an example script on my box
[02:15] <ajmitch> so I'd just bbuild package.dsc
[02:16] <LaserJock> very cool
[02:17] <Trashcan> zcn/
[02:17] <Trashcan> er, oups- keyboard cleaning
[02:17] <LaserJock> lol
[02:18] <ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, I've also got a small script to take a list of packages, increment their versions with a changelog entry, repack the source package, and run them through pbuilder :)
[02:19] <ajmitch> great for massed rebuilds
[02:19] <LaserJock> dang! I guess BddebianIsGod will have to be replaced with AjmitchIsGodAndMasterOfAll
[02:19] <ajmitch> haha
[02:20] <LaserJock> no wonder your Karam is so high, it is all scripted ;-)
[02:20] <ajmitch> nope
[02:20] <ajmitch> uploads aren't counted yet :)
[02:22] <LaserJock> but when they are, watch out
[02:22] <Trashcan> lol
[02:22] <ajmitch> oh I've only just started :)
[02:22] <Trashcan> ajmitch, what is your main profession?
[02:22] <Trashcan> if you don't mind me asking
[02:23] <LaserJock> maybe we will have to have a "ajmitch hits 100,000 party" for Dapper
[02:25] <ajmitch> Trashcan: irc lurker ;)
[02:25] <Trashcan> hehe
[02:25] <ajmitch> actually it's programmer
[02:25] <Trashcan> figures :p
[02:25] <LaserJock> hmm, that explains a lot, lol
[02:25] <ajmitch> currently working with php, but I prefer python :)
[02:26] <LaserJock> well, I'm just a chemist but I am digging python right now
[02:26] <ajmitch> I'd probably need to upload all of universe
[02:26] <crimsun> let's cook up another transition so ajmitch can do his thang
[02:27] <LaserJock> lol
[02:27] <ajmitch> yay, transitions!
[02:27] <LaserJock> well, we could just go back and forth between Xorg and Xfree. How about that?
[02:27] <ajmitch> claw out my eyes with a rusty hammer, thanks
[02:28] <LaserJock> "oh it's an even year, time for Xfree"
[02:28] <Trashcan> ajmitch currently working with php, but I prefer python :) <--- you don't do C/C++ work?
[02:30] <ajmitch> Trashcan: not currently, although I've done C & C++
[02:30] <Trashcan> ok
[02:31] <ajmitch> it wasn't an exhaustive list of languages I know :)
[02:31] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm moving from FORTRAN to Python. No C++ though.
[02:31] <Trashcan> fortran :p
[02:31] <LaserJock> It's basically essential for sciences
[02:31] <crimsun> fortran, the choice of true mathematicians with no time/life
[02:31] <Trashcan> lol
[02:32] <crimsun> f95 is an excellent example of a language that should not have had OOP paradigms hacked onto it
[02:32] <LaserJock> I am trying to convince my advisor (who kinda fits crimsun's description) that python might make or lives simpler
[02:32] <LaserJock> strictly F77 here ;-)
[02:33] <crimsun> tritium used a lot of python in his dissertation as I recall
[02:33] <LaserJock> well, I'm trying to get the hang of scipy right now. It is really cool.
[02:37] <LaserJock> I will probably have a some python in my dissertation but it would be pretty minimal since I am an experimentalist
[03:23] <LaserJock> can I get somebodies sources.list for Debian unstable?
[03:36] <ajmitch> LaserJock:
[03:37] <ajmitch> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib
[03:37] <ajmitch> similar for deb-src
[03:38] <LaserJock> dang it. it's just not working. maybe unstable is not working right now
[03:39] <LaserJock> i'm just trying to install wget
[03:40] <tony_the_cable_g> Whats the best way to install Skype?
[03:57] <Kyral> I'm feeling curious
[03:57] <Kyral> should I fire up nmap and portscan someone.....
[04:01] <ajmitch> no
[04:02] <Kyral> Awww....
[04:02] <Kyral> ooooo I wonder what IRC data looks like
[04:06] <Kyral> Ethereal capture started :D
[04:06] <Kyral> This is gonna be quite interesting
[04:06] <Kyral> Its not a bad thing to trace on yourself right?
[04:19] <Kyral> Wow...IRC doesn't seem to carry any data unencrypted AT ALL
[04:19] <Amaranth> if you're using ssl, of course not
[04:19] <Kyral> I don't think I am
[04:19] <Kyral> I just ran Ethereal for like 3 mins
[04:20] <Kyral> I discovered that AIM transmits in the clear
[04:20] <Amaranth> only for messages
[04:20] <Kyral> and notifications
[04:20] <ajmitch> irc is generally completely cleartext
[04:21] <Lathiat> Kyral: many protocols are unencrypted
[04:21] <Lathiat> Kyral: whats the point of encrypting it
[04:21] <Kyral> Yah but wow....
[04:21] <Lathiat> its silly
[04:21] <Lathiat> if you really want, you can use ssl with some ircds
[04:21] <Lathiat> Kyral: why are you so surprised?
[04:21] <Kyral> In case someone who is curious is running Ethereal
[04:21] <Kyral> Dunno
[04:22] <Lathiat> bwuahahah
[04:22] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/dns-sd-avahi.jpg
[04:22] <Lathiat> ajmitch:
[04:23] <ajmitch> what'd I do?
[04:23] <Lathiat> ajmitch: look at that url. :)
[04:23] <ajmitch> hm, interesting :)
[04:23] <ajmitch> hard to read though
[04:23] <Lathiat> im just waiting for sebest to send me a screenshot of bonjour browser
[04:23] <Lathiat> or itunes ;)
[04:24] <ajmitch> haha
[04:24] <Kyral> Well this was fun
[04:24] <Kyral> Now I want to capture more
[04:25] <Kyral> and brb, reconnecting with SSL...
[04:26] <ajmitch> heh
[04:26] <Lathiat> uh, i dont think freenode does ssl
[04:26] <ajmitch> :)
[04:26] <Lathiat> ps: every other person on the channels your on has it in the clear, so it'l just get sniffed elsewhere or on an inter-server link ;)
[04:27] <Kyral> Does Freenode have any SSL servers...
[04:27] <ajmitch> no..
[04:27] <ajmitch> most irc networks don't, afaik
[04:27] <Kyral> damnit
[04:28] <Amaranth> freenode does
[04:28] <Amaranth> iirc it's ssl.freenode.net
[04:28] <ajmitch> it does? interesting
[04:28] <Amaranth> or ssl.irc.freenode.net, check the website
[04:28] <Kyral> niiice
[04:28] <Amaranth> they used to, anyway
[04:28] <Lathiat> oh, didnt knwo that
[04:28] <ajmitch> Kyral: what is the point of you connecting with ssl?
[04:28] <Lathiat> Kyral: theres no point
[04:28] <Kyral> I mainly ran the Ethereal trace to find out what was being sent from me
[04:28] <Kyral> ajmitch, I'm paranoid ;P
[04:28] <Amaranth> doesn't make a difference if the people you talk to aren't using it
[04:28] <Lathiat> Kyral: everythign you say is only going to end up over a non-ssl inter-server link or someone eles client link
[04:29] <ajmitch> it's like locking the front door when the whole back wall of the house is missing
[04:30] <Kyral> ajmitch, it will be encrypted on the way to the server right?
[04:31] <ajmitch> so?
[04:31] <Kyral> Thats all I care about
[04:32] <ajmitch> I hope your local uni network doesn't allow ethereal to operate
[04:32] <Kyral> eh?
[04:32] <Kyral> Why?
[04:33] <ajmitch> because it's broken if users can sniff packets on their local ethernet segment :)
[04:33] <ajmitch> since you should be all on switches
[04:33] <Kyral> I can only scan the local dorm
[04:34] <ajmitch> scan in what way?
[04:34] <Kyral> Collect packets
[04:34] <Kyral> Ethereal trace
[04:34] <ajmitch> you see all the dorm traffic with ethereal?
[04:34] <ajmitch> or just broadcast traffic?
[04:34] <Kyral> Yah...well, my floor and the one above me. I don't know how far it goes
[04:35] <Kyral> I caught stuff like IMs
[04:35] <Kyral> HTTP Requests, Jabber, ARP lookups,
[04:35] <ajmitch> go beat your network admins
[04:35] <Kyral> lol
[04:35] <ajmitch> arp lookups are expected
[04:35] <Lathiat> http requests and jabber arent tho. :)
[04:35] <Lathiat> hah
[04:35] <Kyral> Well like half the people have routers
[04:35] <ajmitch> Lathiat: yes, I wasn't going to go into those :)
[04:36] <Lathiat> msgsnarf is great
[04:36] <Kyral> so I can't tap them directly
[04:36] <Lathiat> ajmitch: heheh
[04:36] <ajmitch> Lathiat: ettercap? :)
[04:36] <Lathiat> Kyral: errr, what do you mean
[04:36] <Kyral> I can't "aim" at the computers behind routers
[04:36] <Kyral> I can't nmap the things behind routers
[04:37] <Kyral> directly
[04:37] <Lathiat> oh, right
[04:37] <ajmitch> Lathiat: he's trying to h4x0r computers on the dorm network ;)
[04:37] <Kyral> Nah
[04:37] <Lathiat> i thought he was still talking about sniffing
[04:37] <Kyral> I just wanted to see what my IRC Traffic looked like
[04:37] <Lathiat> and was trying to figure out what a router had to do with stopping you doing that
[04:37] <Lathiat> Kyral: go read RFC1459. :)
[04:37] <ajmitch> nmap is not the way to go, honestly
[04:37] <Kyral> catching everything else was a bonus ;P
[04:37] <ajmitch> nmap causes stuff from you to show up as nice flashing alerts on many people's systems
[04:38] <lath|telnet> then you can do this. :)
[04:38] <Kyral> not if you use it right
[04:38] <Lathiat> Kyral: uh, yeh, it does
[04:38] <Lathiat> people know what nmap does inside out
[04:38] <Kyral> Oh
[04:38] <Kyral> remind me not to portscan with nmap
[04:38] <ajmitch> Kyral: don't portscan with nmap
[04:38] <Kyral> I won't
[04:38] <Lathiat> dont portscan
[04:38] <ajmitch> good
[04:38] <ajmitch> you might get a visit from some people
[04:39] <Lathiat> theres no way to portscan that can't be detected in one way or another
[04:39] <Kyral> the most I would do is go knock on the door and show them the output ;P
[04:39] <Kyral> and them help them fix it
[04:39] <ajmitch> that's still cleaning up after the fact
[04:39] <ajmitch> after people have freaked about about a breakin attempt :P
[04:39] <Kyral> Somehow my eth0 runs in Promiscous mode all the time
[04:40] <Lathiat> Kyral: how do you know that?
[04:40] <Amaranth> *sigh*
[04:40] <Kyral>  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST
[04:40] <Amaranth> i'm still getting reports on a simple typo in the about box on smeg 0.7.5
[04:40] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I know there are some methods of portscanning using sequencing that are far harder to detect
[04:40] <Kyral> oh
[04:40] <Amaranth> I DON'T CARE
[04:40] <Kyral> I gues Ethereal killed it
[04:40] <Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh, using zombie boxes is fun too
[04:40] <ajmitch> heh
[04:40] <Lathiat> ajmitch: have you read about how that works?
[04:40] <Kyral> ooo I have experianced people here
[04:41] <Lathiat> its quite cool
[04:41] <ajmitch> idle scanning?
[04:41] <Lathiat> ajmitch: but any which way, its quite seeable
[04:41] <Kyral> Can you show me stuff?
[04:41] <Lathiat> Kyral: yes, ethereal puts PROMISC on when its sniffing
[04:41] <Lathiat> obviously
[04:41] <ajmitch> sit at the feet of the mighty Lathiat, networking guru ;)
[04:41] <Kyral> hmm, then why does chkrootkit tell me that eth0 is in PROMISC?
[04:41] <ajmitch> Lathiat: detectable, but harder to trace back to you
[04:41] <Lathiat> ajmitch: right
[04:42] <ajmitch> anything that sends packets is going to show up somehow
[04:42] <Lathiat> ajmitch: basically, you use spoof packets
[04:42] <Lathiat> ajmitch: (which aren talways available, but often on a lan)
[04:42] <Kyral> Are Ethereal traces detectable?
[04:42] <ajmitch> yeah
[04:42] <Lathiat> ajmitch: and you fire a portscan packet with the source of another computer
[04:42] <ajmitch> Kyral: it's possible
[04:42] <Lathiat> ajmitch: and then you fire a packet at the portsca compute
[04:42] <Kyral> I mean, it just watches what flows past right?
[04:42] <Lathiat> ajmitch: and if that other computer has predictable sequence numbers
[04:42] <ajmitch> yeah, I remember reading about that scanning when it came out
[04:42] <Lathiat> ajmitch: you can use that to figure out if the remote host has the port open, as it would have sent an ACK etc
[04:42] <ajmitch> yep
[04:42] <Kyral> BTW: Technically Tracing from the Dorms is against the rules, except from the ITL
[04:43] <ajmitch> sometimes it's useful having wasted a semester learning the details of tcp/ip ;)
[04:43] <Lathiat> hence patches for randomizing various numbers
[04:43] <Lathiat> to try decrease the possibility of such things
[04:43] <ajmitch> yes
[04:43] <Lathiat> Kyral: sniffing, no
[04:43] <Kyral> But since I'm on the Maintenence Team for the ITL...
[04:43] <Kyral> Tracing == Sniffing?
[04:43] <Lathiat> probabl
[04:44] <Lathiat> y
[04:44] <Lathiat> i set OSPF up over a point-to-multipoint frame-relay link between 3 routers yesterday ;p
[04:44] <Lathiat> they have this rather nifty 'netlab'
[04:45] <ajmitch> yeah that's just evil
[04:45] <Lathiat> that has a bunch of routers in the rack and a computer between telnet and the machine
[04:45] <Lathiat> and you can tell it to do cerain things
[04:45] <Lathiat> scrub the config, etc
[04:45] <Lathiat> and it takes control and drops it into rommon, sets the config register etc
[04:45] <Lathiat> then puts  anew config on and saves it, and gives control back
[04:45] <Lathiat> can also power the devices on and off
[04:45] <zakame> hi all
[04:45] <Lathiat> its quite cool
[04:46] <Kyral> hmm
[04:46] <Kyral> Lets see what this turns up
[04:46] <Lathiat> ajmitch: its a bitch quagga doesnt do OSPF
[04:46] <Kyral> I set Ethereal to a meg of traffic
[04:46] <ajmitch> Lathiat: zebra did when I used it
[04:46] <Lathiat> the routers we work oon are so slow, when i was doing bgp i wused 3 vmwares with minimal hoary installs + quagga and vmware virtual networks. :)
[04:46] <ajmitch> I'm using BGP now though
[04:46] <Lathiat> vmware team networks are sweet
[04:46] <Lathiat> you can set bandwidht
[04:46] <Lathiat> packet loss
[04:46] <Lathiat> etc
[04:46] <Lathiat> put as many hosts on segments
[04:47] <Lathiat> and have as many as you like
[04:47] <Lathiat> its really cool
[04:47] <Kyral> How many packets is a Meg?
[04:47] <Lathiat> Kyral: thats not defined
[04:47] <Kyral> roughly
[04:47] <Lathiat> it could be anywhere between 700 and 16,000 or something
[04:47] <Kyral> hmm, coming up on 700...
[04:48] <Kyral> my trace of a VNC session was much more interesting
[04:48] <Lathiat> ajmitch: baha
[04:48] <Lathiat> ajmitch: *imagines dsniff with a vnc viewer*
[04:48] <Kyral> Keep in mind it was my own VNC session
[04:48] <Kyral> what is dsniff?
[04:48] <ajmitch> the dodgy mind of Lathiat ;)
[04:48] <Lathiat> Kyral: somethign thatl get you in lots of trouble ;p
[04:49] <Kyral> So stick with Ethereal ;P
[04:49] <Lathiat> :)
[04:49] <Lathiat> man i tried quake4 out yesterday
[04:49] <Lathiat> chugged like crazy :(
[04:49] <Lathiat> but 256M surely is nto helping
[04:49] <Lathiat> i might try ti out my othe rmachine with 512M
[04:49] <Lathiat> but i'll hve to use windows or install hoary or something since the nvidia drivers wont work
[04:50] <Kyral> I'm gonna try to see what an Apt download looks like :D
[04:50] <Lathiat> on breezy on my laptop
[04:50] <Lathiat> Kyral: just http
[04:50] <Lathiat> or ftp or whatever you have setup
[04:51] <ajmitch> the novelty of ethereal quickly wears off
[04:51] <Kyral> What does Etherape do...
[04:51] <Kyral> ajmitch, I'm using as a learning experiance
[04:51] <Lathiat> aha usre, thats what they all say ;p
[04:51] <Lathiat> Kyral: it likes
[04:51] <ajmitch> avahi is much much cooler than ethereal
[04:51] <Lathiat> Kyral: gives you a few of all the hosts it sees showing packets
[04:51] <Kyral> eh?
[04:51] <ajmitch> shame about the upstream though ;)
[04:51] <Lathiat> and shows a line, size depending on bandwidht of the packets goign around
[04:51] <Lathiat> try it out
[04:51] <Kyral> I will
[04:51] <ajmitch> :D
[04:51] <Kyral> It won't get me in trouble will it?
[04:52] <Lathiat> nah
[04:52] <Kyral> Seriously I'm gonna take an IT minor, might be good for me to learn about what network traffic looks like :D
[04:52] <Lathiat> well, unless someones standing ove ryour shoulder
[04:52] <Lathiat> im gonna drop out of kde and kill everythign to try get enough ram to make quake4 work ;)
[04:52] <Lathiat> bbiab
[04:53] <Kyral> will avahi get me in trouble...
[04:53] <ajmitch> no
[04:53] <Lathiat> haha
[04:53] <Lathiat> http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
[04:53] <ajmitch> avahi is to 1337 for that
[04:53] <ajmitch> s/to/too/
[04:54] <Kyral> and what can it do?
[04:54] <ajmitch> service discovery
[04:54] <Kyral> ==?
[04:54] <ajmitch> apt-get install service-discovery-applet
[04:56] <Lathiat> avahi-daemon too, and avahi-utils
[04:56] <ajmitch> yeah, s-d-a might need a few more dependencies
[05:03] <Kyral> some idiot is running an FTP, SFTP, and SSH server in the clear...
[05:03] <ajmitch> hah
[05:03] <ajmitch> ssh in the clear? :)
[05:03] <Kyral> yah
[05:04] <ajmitch> what on earth do you mean by that?
[05:04] <Kyral> It showed up on Services Discovery
[05:04] <Kyral> what happens if i click on the name?
[05:05] <ajmitch> generally people refer to 'in the clear' as unencrypted
[05:05] <ajmitch> which sftp & ssh are not
[05:05] <ajmitch> what you mean is that the services are announced, most likely on a mac OSX box
[05:05] <Lathiat> Kyral: the whole point of service discovery is to announce them on the network, duh
[05:06] <Kyral> I got some CDP traffic
[05:06] <Lathiat> as in cisco?
[05:06] <Kyral> yah
[05:08] <ajmitch> yeah, the mac fanatic is out of the house at the moment ;)
[05:08] <Lathiat> haha
[05:08] <Kyral> Wow, caught a CUPS packet
[05:08] <ajmitch> Kyral: you seem amazed at the normal background traffic that goes on :)
[05:09] <ajmitch> Lathiat: it'll be fun to see how much stuff is around on wireless at LCA
[05:10] <Kyral> How do I filter out my own traffic?
[05:12] <ajmitch> ok, time to make a supermarket run
[05:12] <ajmitch> bbl
[05:12] <Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh
[05:12] <Lathiat> Kyral: put ip.addr != <your ip> up the top
[05:13] <Kyral> Can I apply multiple filters at a time?
[05:19] <Lathiat> yes
[05:19] <Lathiat> and
[05:19] <Lathiat> and this and that
[05:20] <Kyral> I'm done for the night
[07:53] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ping?
[07:53] <ajmitch> pong
[07:53] <ajmitch> how may I be of assistance?
[07:53] <LaserJock> did you make a unstable chroot from Breezy?
[07:54] <ajmitch> yes, I did
[07:54] <LaserJock> I can't get debootstrap to work to save my life
[07:55] <LaserJock> I tried sid and everything looks ok, but I don't have less and I can't apt-get anything
[07:55] <LaserJock> etch didn't get through debootstrap
[07:55] <ajmitch> what happens when you try to use apt-get?
[07:56] <LaserJock> I get lot of unmet deps
[07:56] <LaserJock> libssl is one I know of
[07:56] <ajmitch> what's in your chroot sources list?
[07:56] <LaserJock> I just try apt-get install wget and it has at least 3 unmet deps
[07:56] <ajmitch> and have you run apt-get update?
[07:57] <LaserJock> deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
[07:57] <LaserJock> thing is, when I go to any of the debian mirrors I can't find libssl even though packages.debian.org says it should be there
[07:57] <ajmitch> being sid it wouldn't surprise me if there are issues with libssl0.9.8
[07:58] <ajmitch> since they're just transitioning to that from libssl0.9.7
[07:58] <LaserJock> well, that is why I though of starting with etch and dist-upgrading but I can't get etch
[07:58] <ajmitch> I'd dist-upgrade from sarge, never etch
[07:59] <LaserJock> just a sec, let me see if sarge works
[08:05] <LaserJock> ajmitch: seems to be working, thanks
[08:05] <ajmitch> ok
[08:20] <robitaille> what's the date/time of the next motu meeting?
[08:20] <ajmitch> erm
[08:20] <ajmitch> I can't recall if we set a date
[08:20] <ajmitch> since it'll be during UBZ
[08:21] <robitaille> just trying to update the topic in #ubuntu-meeting
[08:22] <ajmitch> right
[08:48] <ajmitch> sivang: brave of you to put the spec on LP for autopackage
[08:50] <Lathiat> hahaha
[09:18] <ajmitch> hi tritium
[09:19] <tritium> hi ajmitch
[09:21] <tritium> Nice to finally be home...
[09:21] <crimsun> no kidding
[09:22] <crimsun> hi ajmitch, tritium
[09:22] <tritium> hi crimsun
[09:22] <tritium> traveling too, eh, crimsun?
[09:24] <crimsun> yeah, hopping about the country
[09:24] <tritium> Is UBZ this coming weekend?
[09:25] <ajmitch> starts on the 30th
[09:26] <whiprush> ajmitch: first time in our hemisphere?
[09:26] <ajmitch> yep
[09:26] <whiprush> cool!
[09:26] <alekz> hi, how can i have a inklevel meter ?
[09:26] <tritium> Hope you guys enjoy it.
[09:26] <ajmitch> tritium: I hope so :)
[09:27] <tritium> :)
[09:27] <crimsun> Canada's pretty swift
[09:27] <ajmitch> ok, I have phpmyadmin update ready
[09:27] <ajmitch> now I just have to get f-spot done properly for breezy-updates
[09:28] <ajmitch> alekz: I'm sorry, what do you mean? something for your printer?
[09:28] <alekz> yes ajmitch
[09:28] <crimsun> I wonder if unmetdeps qualify for breezy-updates
[09:28] <ajmitch> crimsun: not likely
[09:28] <ajmitch> you could try
[09:28] <whiprush> hey aj
[09:28] <whiprush> may I ask a small favor?
[09:28] <ajmitch> f-spot is a data muncher bug
[09:28] <ajmitch> whiprush: sure
[09:28] <whiprush> can you look at this:
[09:28] <whiprush> 00:23 < whiprush> heh
[09:28] <crimsun> yeah, I'll ping mdz in a bit
[09:29] <whiprush> blah
[09:29] <ajmitch> haha
[09:29] <whiprush> stupid copy and paste synergy!
[09:29] <ajmitch> still pasting that?
[09:29] <whiprush> malone bug 2397
[09:29] <whiprush> apparently, this program is popular in my lug.
[09:29] <whiprush> and we go to the bar and people flame me.
[09:29] <whiprush> it
[09:29] <ajmitch> oh man
[09:29] <whiprush> it's a pretty bad situation.
[09:29] <ajmitch> not that one
[09:29] <ajmitch> haha
[09:30] <whiprush> So whom do I have to send a case of beer to?
[09:30] <ajmitch> a few people have looked at it
[09:30] <ajmitch> and I doubt I'll have time to
[09:30] <ajmitch> my TODO list is growing & my time is shrinking :)
[09:30] <whiprush> no prob.
[09:32] <ajmitch> sorry about that
[09:32] <ajmitch> I've got to do debian sponsoring, package updates, and php code
[09:32] <whiprush> heh
[09:32] <whiprush> and I've got to convince them to just dump it and use f-spot.
[09:33] <Lathiat> he3h
[09:33] <Lathiat> pornview
[09:33] <Lathiat> i had a quick look, rebuild didnt help
[09:33] <Lathiat> gave up
[09:33] <whiprush> I think I'll just do a "MOTUs are too busy, but if you've got a patch, and I know you all are capable of making one, maybe we can push it through."
[09:33] <Lathiat> also
[09:33] <whiprush> will that work?
[09:33] <Lathiat> malone needs a damned confirmed state
[09:33] <ajmitch> whiprush: maybe :)
[09:33] <ajmitch> Lathiat: yeah, accepted just doesn't cut it
[09:33] <Lathiat> so you can easily see initially triaged bugs
[09:34] <Lathiat> ajmitch: the whole process needs some thinking out
[09:34] <Lathiat> like
[09:34] <ajmitch> accepted is when someone's working on it
[09:34] <Lathiat> assigning to MOTU is broken
[09:34] <ajmitch> agreed
[09:34] <Lathiat> bugs need to "belong" to motu
[09:34] <Lathiat> somehow
[09:34] <Lathiat> by package association ro whatever
[09:34] <Lathiat> and then be assigned to someone working on it
[09:34] <ajmitch> yes
[09:34] <ajmitch> MOTU should be maintainer & get the bug emails
[09:34] <Lathiat> that could work
[09:34] <ajmitch> and they should get assigned to minions
[09:34] <Lathiat> sortof
[09:34] <Lathiat> but i mean
[09:34] <Lathiat> packages have other maintainers too
[09:34] <Lathiat> i dunno
[09:34] <ajmitch> it's all a mess
[09:34] <Lathiat> i filed a bug about "assignign to both a team and a person"
[09:35] <Lathiat> hasnt really gone anywhere other than "specifically makign bugs assigned ot both teams and people sucks"
[09:35] <Lathiat> so i said "well, some way to sort this issue out -> "
[09:35] <Lathiat> but yeh
[09:37] <ajmitch> something to spec out at UBZ ;)
[09:42] <tritium> ajmitch, did you already post the meeting minutes?
[09:43] <ajmitch> tritium: no, that's also on my todo list
[09:43] <ajmitch> Yagisan: no, probably not
[09:43] <ajmitch> Yagisan: and it's a call from the kernel team
[09:43] <tritium> ajmitch, okay, just curious if that's what Yagisan was reading
[09:43] <ajmitch> tritium: my apologies
[09:43] <zyga> morning
[09:44] <tritium> ajmitch, no need to :)
[09:44] <ajmitch> tritium: yes, I do
[09:44] <ajmitch> I suck, I should have done them by now
[09:45] <tritium> I'll bet the irclogs are back up anyway
[09:47] <Yagisan> ajmitch: That meeting went very different to my chat on ubuntu-kernel
[09:47] <ajmitch> Yagisan: I can't help it if they changed their minds :)
[09:48] <Yagisan> ajmitch: well - at least I logged the "yes go ahead - but only in lockstep" answers
[09:48] <whiprush> ajmitch / Lathiat: http://www.mug.org/pipermail/discuss/2005-October/000078.html
[09:49] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I'll stick my kernels on my private repo as I bake them
[09:49] <ajmitch> Yagisan: great, thanks :)
[09:49] <whiprush> ajmitch: it's all about turning bugs into positive learning experiences. :)
[09:49] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I'd like to see your selinux stuff when you have time
[09:50] <whiprush> ajmitch: xterminal (the xfce terminal)
[09:50] <whiprush> use it, love it.
[09:50] <whiprush> it's a better gnome terminal than gnome-terminal.
[09:51] <ajmitch> Yagisan: I'd love to show it, once it's in that state (yes it's on my weekend TODO list ;) )
[09:52] <Yagisan> ajmitch: If your TODO list is like mine - we'll get to it in a few weeks
[09:52] <ajmitch> Yagisan: hehe yeah
[09:52] <ajmitch> or it's something I'll do sitting in an airport ;)
[09:54] <ajmitch> all I know is that I've got 3 days off this weekend
[09:54] <ajmitch> & 1 of those days is nearly over
[09:55] <ajmitch> whiprush: cheers, xterminal looks reasonable
[09:55] <whiprush> aka "make it work with irssi"
[09:55] <ajmitch> yep :)
[09:56] <ajmitch> alt-left/alt-right still don't do it though
[09:57] <ajmitch> mm, fullscreen mode is nice
[10:10] <crimsun> pornview looks like it has quite a few leaks
[10:11] <crimsun> from just a rudimentary run through valgrind
[10:18] <crimsun> hmm, it's in the xine backend, since the mplayer backend purportedly works
[10:30] <whiprush> wow, I didn't even know pornview had "backends"
[10:31] <Yagisan> I got a cold glare from my wife when she saw there is a package called pornview
[10:32] <Lathiat> lol
[10:39] <crimsun> ick, looks like gtk-xine.c::load_audio_out_driver() needs to be updated and made more robust
[10:39] <crimsun> gtkxine.c, rather
[10:44] <Lathiat> anyone know what ddr400 is in pcxxxx terms?
[10:44] <Lathiat> liek 2700, 3200
[10:45] <ajmitch> 3200
[10:45] <Lathiat> hrm, /me guesses its 3200
[10:45] <Lathiat> since i just found 266 is 2100
[10:45] <Lathiat> and 2100*(400/266) = 3156 or so
[10:46] <Lathiat> no idea if thats how it works but seems sane :)
[10:46] <ajmitch> google for ddr400 shows plenty of 3200 references :)
[10:46] <Lathiat> heh ok
[10:46] <ajmitch> staying up for another irc meeting...
[10:48] <[Chameleon] > check out this other "pornview" application
[10:48] <[Chameleon] > http://skinky.navelsex.com/
[10:48] <[Chameleon] > different platform entirely, but nonetheless interesting.
[10:49] <[Chameleon] > funny
[11:00] <sivang> ajmitch: brave? :_)
[11:00] <sivang> morning all
[11:00] <ajmitch> sivang: yes
[11:00] <ajmitch> main developers do not like autopackage
[11:00] <ajmitch> and it comes up frequently ;)
[11:00] <lifeless> 'autopackage' ?
[11:01] <sivang> ajmitch: lol, what's the *main* reason if you excuse the pun?
[11:01] <[Chameleon] > lifeless: google
[11:01] <ajmitch> it provides a great way to let users install the latest & greatest software & break their system
[11:01] <lifeless> [Chameleon] : altavista
[11:01] <[Chameleon] > lifeless: whatever
[11:01] <ajmitch> lifeless: packaging system, does binary relocation, etc
[11:01] <lifeless> [Chameleon] : I'm playing the word association game you started
[11:01] <ajmitch> puts things into /usr by default
[11:02] <lifeless> ajmitch: heuristic based ?
[11:02] <lifeless> ajmitch: or data driven ?
[11:02] <ajmitch> data driven
[11:02] <[Chameleon] > lifeless: in that case, the word I thought of when you said "altavista" was "poop"... literally.
[11:02] <ajmitch> people still have to make 'autopackages'
[11:02] <lifeless> ajmitch: so, not really different to dpkg then :)
[11:02] <ajmitch> just more breakage
[11:02] <sivang> ajmitch: I've looked at klik, seems it would be a better solution for us maybe
[11:02] <[Chameleon] > lifeless: supposedly it is to work on all distros
[11:02] <lifeless> ajmitch: can you say 'apt-get.org' :)
[11:03] <ajmitch> lifeless: I can say 'oh god no'
[11:03] <sivang> lifeless: what's the differnece between hueristic drive / data driven ?
[11:03] <Mithrandir> lifeless: autopackage is way more crack than a-g.o
[11:03] <ajmitch> lifeless: sabdfl wanted us to import nearly all of apt-get.org for hoary & breezy
[11:03] <lifeless> sivang: ajmitch I know :)
[11:03] <sivang> hmm, bad tab completion? :)
[11:05] <lifeless> sivang: well, encap is much more heuristic based than explicit data
[11:05] <lifeless> sivang: heuristic based systems are ones that guess rather than are told.
[11:06] <sivang> lifeless: yes, sure, but how that applies to a packaging system? :)
[11:06] <ajmitch> autopackage possibly does a fair bit of guessing as well
[11:06] <lifeless> -most- systems have bits of both, but a strong bias one way or another
[11:06] <ajmitch> sivang: it's easier to make bad packages with a guess
[11:06] <lifeless> sivang: well, there is a system somewhere that generates packages by installing in a chroot and then just tarring up what it got
[11:06] <lifeless> thats ~100% heuristic :0
[11:07] <ajmitch> sounds like checkinstall
[11:07] <sivang> lifeless: but it didn't do any guessing at all, only did something bruetly :)
[11:08] <sivang> lifeless: that is, I'll install to the chroot, then pack it up hopefully other user will eb able to install as well :)
[11:08] <ajmitch> sivang: guessing can be done by generating the dependancies for a package
[11:10] <lifeless> ajmitch: I think that is the one I am thinkig of
[11:10] <lifeless> sivang: but it has guessed : it has guessed on conflicts:, it has guessed on dependencies, it has guessed on pre-install and postinstall and preremove and postremove actions
[11:11] <sivang> lifeless: but doesn't installing in a chroot means that it plain inqueried the dependency resolution system for the required dependencies, tracked them and listed them in, then just repackged it with those? (e.g., no guessing was done)
[11:12] <lifeless> sivang: what you just described is guessing
[11:12] <lifeless> what 'required dependencies' ?
[11:12] <lifeless> heres an example.
[11:12] <lifeless> I write an evolution plugin with this
[11:13] <lifeless> how does it know that my plugin is only of use when evo is installed ?
[11:15] <sivang> lifeless: well, if you specified dependencies right, then it can see that in the dependency pull in, there are evo's libs which get installed when evo gets installed?
[11:15] <lifeless> sivang: but this has *no specified dependencies*.
[11:16] <lifeless> sivang: you are thinking of this as something sane. Its not, its fully heuristic.
[11:17] <sivang> lifeless: ah, as in trying to parse the autocraps and understand the dependencies from there? <g>
[11:17] <lifeless> thats the sort of thing heaviy heuristic systems get into
[11:19] <sivang> basically, what comes into mind is that you can just run the autofoo scripts, prase output and get a list of stuff it didn't find for buildin, then with some heavy cruft of apt-file searches on various forms the library names (I know there are some) you can with some time and effort come up with the list of packages that need be installed for it,
[11:20] <sivang> sounds doab however is insane in some degree :)
[11:52] <[Chameleon] > Treenaks: already here
[11:53] <Treenaks> ok :)
[11:55] <sivang> [Chameleon] : they already have a deb ?
[11:55] <[Chameleon] > yeah, it's i386 tho
[11:55] <[Chameleon] > for some debian offshoot called "MedianLinux"
[11:56] <[Chameleon] > I'm on AMD64... Should that i386 deb work on my system?
[11:56] <ajmitch> "Jahshaka Debian Package for Mediainlinux Debian Sid. Converted with alien from a .rpm package"
[11:56] <ajmitch> ugh
[11:56] <ajmitch> so it needs packaged properly
[11:57] <[Chameleon] > yeah, I wondered if that might also be a problem.
[11:57] <sivang> ajmitch: well, DB2  is nicely installable with alien on Ubuntu :)
[11:57] <ajmitch> 'nicely'
[11:57] <ajmitch> hah
[11:57] <sivang> hehe
[11:57] <sivang> well, it works
[11:57] <sivang> :)
[11:58] <ajmitch> something working is not the same as nice packaging :)
[11:58] <[Chameleon] > if the i386 binary has a chance of working on my AMD64 system, I'll try installing it.
[11:58] <[Chameleon] > otherwise, I'll try building from source and packaging.
[12:46] <ajmitch> hi Nafallo
[12:47] <Nafallo> morning ajmitch :-)
[12:48] <sivang> hey Nafallo
[12:48] <Nafallo> morning sivang :-)
[12:48] <Nafallo> morning all :-)
[12:50] <\sh> moins Nafallo
[12:51] <Nafallo> is dapper open? ;-)
[12:51] <ajmitch> no, be quiet :P
[12:52] <ajmitch> you should know not to ask such questions
[12:52] <Nafallo> hihi
[12:53] <ajmitch> every time someone asks, it's delayed another day
[12:53] <Nafallo> then I teach gothcat more about firewalls today then ;-)
[12:54] <ajmitch> and doing coding
[01:01] <ssam> there is a data loss bug in f-spot on powerpc, it is patched upstream, and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/f-spot/+bug/3338 says it is pending upload. how long will this take?
[01:03] <ajmitch> ssam: as long as it takes to get the package uploaded
[01:03] <ajmitch> which means getting it approved
[01:03] <ssam> is there anything i can do to help?
[01:03] <ajmitch> no
[01:03] <ajmitch> well
[01:03] <ajmitch> unless you want to compile the source package I have to test it
[01:04] <ssam> if you have time to talk me through doing that
[01:04] <ajmitch> since I don't have a powerpc available to test on
[01:07] <tseng> hi ajmitch
[01:07] <ajmitch> hello tseng
[01:07] <ajmitch> how are you?
[01:07] <tseng> ok thanks
[01:08] <tseng> trying not to reply on my friends blog to a comment by elitist christians
[01:08] <ajmitch> oh?
[01:08] <tseng> yeah the "we are inherently better than atheists, they are just afraid of judgement, etc"
[01:08] <tseng> not spelled out, but that is the distilled belief
[01:08] <ajmitch> got url?
[01:09] <tseng> http://josiah.ritchietribe.net/blog/archive/2005/10/1112/#comments
[01:11] <[Chameleon] > tseng: I really dislike the attitude some Christians exude. It's not Christ-like at all.
[01:11] <tseng> no, not at all
[01:12] <tseng> but i probably shouldnt have stirred up here
[01:12] <tseng> i thought i was in hiding
[01:12] <[Chameleon] > :>
[01:13] <ajmitch> heh
[01:14] <slomo> ajmitch: i can test it later for you
[01:14] <ajmitch> slomo: thanks
[01:14] <tseng> morning slomo
[01:14] <slomo> ajmitch: where can i get your updated package?
[01:14] <slomo> hi tseng :)
[01:15] <ajmitch> slomo: same place, same version number, but with a fixed dpatch
[01:15] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/tmp/build/f-spot_0.1.3-1ubuntu1.1.diff.gz
[01:15] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/tmp/build/f-spot_0.1.3-1ubuntu1.1.dsc
[01:15] <slomo> thanks
[01:15] <ajmitch> should be the files to use
[01:16] <slomo> i'll try it after shopping ;)
[01:16] <ajmitch> heh
[01:17] <ajmitch> but at least I managed to get some of my debian packages up to the latest upstream version
[01:18] <slomo> ajmitch: hehe, fine :) what packages are these?
[01:19] <ajmitch> just some python packages
[01:19] <ajmitch> which I'll upload tomorrow
[01:19] <ajmitch> I'll try & get the others done too
[01:19] <ajmitch> but the last version of pnet, for example, had a 2MB diff.gz
[01:19] <ajmitch> due to autotools
[01:20] <ajmitch> so it's a complicated dance to get it to work right
[01:21] <slomo> hmm... why don't you run autofoo in rules then?
[01:22] <ajmitch> because it still involves patching things & running the right versions
[01:24] <ajmitch> it's generally less fragile to get the patch right, than to rely on it working properly at build time
[01:25] <Kyral> mornin'
[01:25] <ajmitch> pnet is just a pain because of the outdated autotools junk
[01:25] <ajmitch> the rest of the build is smooth enough
[01:25] <ajmitch> not that anyone uses it :)
[01:26] <slomo> hehe... already tried to convice upstream to fix it? ;)
[01:26] <ajmitch> oh it was mostly fixed in the last upstream version
[01:27] <ajmitch> with an import of new libgc & libffi
[01:27] <ajmitch> which I probably don't want to use
[01:27] <ajmitch> I have to try & hack in a fix to use the system libgc & libffi
[01:28] <slomo> hm... are you sure they didn't modify both libs for their needs? the mono guys did this with libgc... you _can_ use the system libgc but everything works better with their modified version
[01:29] <tseng> they dont want you to use system
[01:29] <slomo> yes
[01:30] <slomo> btw, how is the progress with pnet? is it already capable of running for example any of the gtk# stuff?
[01:30] <tseng> mono-classlib is already moving to 2.0
[01:31] <tseng> im afraid pnet will always be left behind
[01:31] <ajmitch> oh yes
[01:31] <ajmitch> pnet is crap
[01:31] <ajmitch> pnet did have modifications to libgc but they were rolled in upstream
[01:32] <ajmitch> the main coder gave up on pnet
[01:32] <ajmitch> and he did probably 75% of it
[01:32] <ajmitch> he's a very good coder, but working alone just didn't work out
[01:33] <tseng> =/
[01:35] <ajmitch> anyway, sleep time
[01:35] <ajmitch> see you in the morning
[01:36] <slomo> gn8 ajmitch :)
[04:23] <HiddenWolf> software outside of universe sucks. :(
[04:30] <LostSole> Anyone out there working on getting a more recent MythTV version going on an AMD64?
[04:40] <HiddenWolf> I'm more interested in freevo packages myself. :)
[04:50] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:51] <HiddenWolf> heya
[05:24] <sivang> yo bddebian the god :)
[05:25] <bddebian> pfft, bddebian the loser :)
[05:25] <bddebian> Heya sivang
[05:41] <HiddenWolf> is there someone here up for some horrendous packaging? :P
[05:46] <bddebian> HiddenWolf: I'm probably out of commission for a week or so :-(
[05:46] <HiddenWolf> bddebian, what's up?
[05:46] <bddebian> RL job :'-(
[05:54] <zyga> bddebian: (hug)
[05:54] <zyga> lol ;-)
[05:55] <bddebian> :-)
[07:14] <runeh> I have a problem with rbscrobbler and songs with special characters. Should I report a bug at once, or does somebody want to take a look at it first?
[07:16] <Lathiat> runeh: file a bug
[07:16] <runeh> OK. Will do.
[07:16] <Lathiat> http://launchpad.net/malone/
[07:27] <bmonty> hey bddebian
[07:29] <bddebian> Whassup bmonty ?
[07:29] <bmonty> not much, finally got some time off to mess around with ubuntu again
[07:30] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[07:30] <bmonty> hey LaserJock
[07:31] <LaserJock> haven't seen you in a while. I got my IRC problem fixed
[07:31] <bddebian> bmonty: Cool.  I'm screwed at work for alittle while :-(
[07:31] <bmonty> LaserJock: yeah, I've been busy with my real job :)
[07:31] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[07:31] <LaserJock> hola bddebian
[07:32] <runeh> Sorry, it seems I posted a duplicate bug.
[07:32] <LaserJock> bmonty: know what you mean. My boss has been coming in for the last week and asking what I've gotten done ;-)
[07:32] <runeh> Should have checked first. :/
[07:33] <bmonty> runeh: no problem, just mark your bug as a duplicate
[07:34] <runeh> Done.
[07:35] <bmonty> anyone know who runs the technical board?
[07:36] <LaserJock> sabdfl ?
[07:37] <bddebian> bmonty: There are a few members.  mdz, sabdfl and such
[07:37] <bmonty> bddebian: is one of them primarily involved with MOTU applications?
[07:38] <bddebian> None of them care about Universe ;-P
[07:38] <LaserJock> lol
[07:38] <bddebian> Heya \sh
[07:39] <bmonty> hi \sh
[07:39] <\sh> re
[07:39] <bmonty> bddebian: my problem is that I can't get to the tech board meetings...I want to see if they will consider another method to approve my MOTU application
[07:39] <\sh> bddebian / bmonty: good evening :)
[07:40] <bddebian> bmonty: Yes, we have mentioned you. :-)
[07:40] <bddebian> bmonty: I would e-mail mdz
[07:40] <bmonty> bddebian: do you know what his real name is so I can look his email up on launchpad?
[07:40] <\sh> bmonty: when is the best time to get you for a irc meeting? give us a day and a time
[07:41] <bddebian> bmonty: Matt Zimmerman
[07:41] <bmonty> \sh: almost any weekend day, or after 2200Z
[07:42] <\sh> bmonty: 2200Z == ?? in UTC?
[07:42] <bmonty> I don't want special treatment, but I'll probably never get to complete the process with the current schedule
[07:42] <bmonty> \sh: yes
[07:44] <bmonty> brb, lunch time :)
[07:46] <\sh> 22UTC should be no problem
[07:50] <\sh> damn...I have to go to the office just now..wanted to order some food..had my beer ready and then a phone call
[07:54] <bddebian> Doh :-(
[07:54] <bmonty> back
[07:54] <bmonty> \sh: thanks
[07:59] <HiddenWolf> isn't there any half-decent pctv solution out there?
[07:59] <HiddenWolf> freevo seems more or less dead, or at least not vibrant, and mythtv, well
[08:02] <bmonty> HiddenWolf: I don't use pctv stuff, but it has always seemed to me that mythtv is most widely used
[08:03] <HiddenWolf> bmonty, I can't get it configured, and the requirements for it are massive.  / freevo on the other hand does not have debs for the version that /might/ work on ubuntu
[08:04] <bmonty> HiddenWolf: you don't have to package a program to try it out
[08:07] <chillywilly> hi
[08:07] <bddebian> Heya chillywilly
[08:07] <bmonty> hi chillywilly
[08:11] <\sh> ok..need to go to the office...laters dude
[08:11] <bddebian> Later \sh
[08:13] <bmonty> bye \sh
[08:17] <LaserJock> dang, it doesn't look like the wiki keeps subscriptions of a wiki page is renamed. That sucks
[08:17] <LaserJock> s/of/if/
[08:19] <chillywilly> seems like the next Ubuntu release is going to be a big one ;)
[08:19] <chillywilly> lots of features and the like
[08:20] <HiddenWolf> chillywilly, features haven't been decided, and are likely to be quite incremental.
[08:21] <HiddenWolf> chillywilly, some improvements, but mostly stability and work under the hood.
[08:23] <bddebian> How can you improve on greatness? ;-P
[08:23] <bmonty> redefine greatness
[08:23] <bddebian> ;-)
[08:30] <chillywilly> :)
[08:35] <bddebian> Am I still here?
[08:43] <bmonty> yex
[08:43] <bmonty> yes
[08:43] <bmonty> but I'm not
[08:44] <bddebian> You aren't? :-)
[09:13] <SEJeff> Is OO.o 2.0 stable going to be in breezy-updates?
[09:27] <SEJeff>  Is OO.o 2.0 stable going to be in breezy-updates?
[09:28] <HiddenWolf> SEJeff, chill out, asking once is enough.
[09:29] <HiddenWolf> SEJeff, once dapper opens, it'll likely be backported.
[09:29] <SEJeff> HiddenWolf: Thanks
[09:49] <ajmitch> morning all
[09:49] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[09:50] <ajmitch> hi, what's up?
[09:50] <ajmitch> I haven't seen you hacking on stuff lately
[09:50] <ajmitch> quit again?
[09:50] <bddebian> Work :-(
[09:50] <ajmitch> what?
[09:50] <ajmitch> you do work?
[09:51] <bddebian> When I HAVE to ;)
[09:51] <ajmitch> right
[09:51] <ajmitch> which explains why you did so much breezy stuff instead
[09:52] <the_aris> nice way of spending one's summer :)
[09:53] <ajmitch> sure
[09:56] <ssam> ajmitch, i spoke to you several hours ago about the f-spot jpeg eating bug on powerpc, i dontloaded your patches and managed to apply them. it fixes the bug for me. thanks
[09:56] <ajmitch> ok
[09:57] <ssam> s/dontloaded/downloaded
[10:55] <\sh> re
[10:56] <bddebian> wb \sh
[10:57] <\sh> well...I slept more then 14h from yesterday to today..but right now, i can sleep again..just came from the office
[10:58] <bddebian> Heh, I know that feeling :-)
[10:59] <\sh> finally one complete transportstream fcked up
[11:10] <LaserJock> bddebian: would you mind taking a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/DocTodo if you have a chance?
[11:13] <bddebian> LaserJock: Nice
[11:14] <LaserJock> bddebian: Thanks. Just getting started ;-) I am particularly interested in the To be removed section
[11:14] <LaserJock> I will probably start by removing links to those pages before ever deleting them completely
[11:16] <bddebian> Coolio
[11:18] <LaserJock> The only problem I am having right now is that renaming a wiki page seems to break the subscription
[11:28] <bddebian> Hmm
[11:30] <Seveas> \sh, still here?