| sivang | \sh: I am also getting Dirk Gently's "Long, Dark tea hour of the sould" together with "Salmons of Doubt" | 12:02 |
|---|---|---|
| sivang | s/sould/soul/ | 12:02 |
| \sh | sivang: i have the 4 parts of the guide in german+english..the dirk gently books (only in german :() | 12:03 |
| sivang | \sh: :-) | 12:03 |
| sivang | \sh: I've never heared a dirk gently's yet | 12:04 |
| sivang | \sh: s/heared/read/ | 12:04 |
| sivang | \sh: the hour does it's work on me :) | 12:04 |
| \sh | sivang: actually dirk gently more fun to read...when u read that odin is laying in a bed of an asylum.and that all the time an eagle is hunting down dirk gently... | 12:05 |
| \sh | sivang: totally weired...but funny... | 12:06 |
| sivang | \sh: so it sounds :) I'm really looking forward to getting it | 12:07 |
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| \sh | I think i change now to bed..and starting up the other laptop | 12:10 |
| kbrooks | so. hi | 12:10 |
| sivang | \sh: wow, you're continuing from bed with the laptop? when do you sleep? | 12:11 |
| sivang | hey kbrooks | 12:11 |
| \sh | sivang: i just slept 15h since yesterday | 12:11 |
| sivang | \sh: wow, had lots of work with the transitions over work? | 12:12 |
| \sh | sivang: the planning is quite a lot of work..but the last days I was even during night at work...and today as well... | 12:13 |
| \sh | sivang: i'm just happy that my holiday starts on thursday...and on saturday I'm sitting in the plane to ubz.. | 12:13 |
| sivang | \sh: same here :) | 12:14 |
| kbrooks | ubz? ubuntu below zero? | 12:14 |
| \sh | yepp | 12:14 |
| sivang | \sh: when we started rolling the project at work, we worked almost 13-16 hours a day, it was a pain | 12:14 |
| \sh | sivang: i | 12:14 |
| \sh | sivang: i'm preparing some new packages for pykde in the meantime and play with bzr | 12:15 |
| sivang | \sh: cool, I should start playing with it as well | 12:15 |
| sivang | \sh: is it much different in its interface then baz? | 12:15 |
| sivang | (I've heared it has memory and speed improvements) | 12:16 |
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| \sh | sivang: to be honest...i think i only played with tla once...for a short time...and i'm new to this baz/bzr/tla stuff ... i'll need a short, intensive jblack sprint at ubz for those tools :) | 12:16 |
| \sh | sivang: to have an overview (also regarding the LP stuff) | 12:17 |
| sivang | \sh: when you do, pull me in ok? I'd need that as well. I've only used baz for mostly RO operations, so it'd be nice to have this session with him :) | 12:17 |
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| \sh | sivang: i think a beer coaster will do as whiteboard replacement ;) | 12:19 |
| sivang | \sh: hahah | 12:19 |
| sivang | \sh: too bad I don't really drink, with all this talking about beer etc :) | 12:19 |
| \sh | sivang: well...there is no need to drink alcohol at all :) but a beer coaster is a must to write some phonenumbers or use it for brainstorming sessions while u r sitting in a pub ,) | 12:23 |
| sivang | \sh: this is the piece of wood/paper you put the beer glass on ? | 12:27 |
| \sh | sivang: yepp paper :) | 12:28 |
| sivang | \sh: ah so now I know what you meant by "coaster" | 12:29 |
| sivang | \sh: :) | 12:29 |
| sivang | \sh: can you conduct an intense packaging session for me over ubz? (guessing you're to packaging, like jblack is to bzr) :-) | 12:30 |
| sivang | \sh: rather, a sprint | 12:30 |
| \sh | sivang: i think thats possible | 12:32 |
| \sh | ok..will change my place from desk to bed ,) | 12:32 |
| sivang | \sh: sure, btw I'll appriciate it :) | 12:33 |
| sivang | \sh: maybe we can come up with imroving your package-source-from-scratch wiki page | 12:34 |
| \sh | sivang: oh..sure..yes...remove the whole wiki page and rewrite now after having more experience *eg* | 12:35 |
| sivang | \sh: :) | 12:35 |
| \sh | sivang: thats my plan... | 12:35 |
| \sh | k...switching location | 12:36 |
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| sivang | nite all | 01:14 |
| Seveas | nite | 01:15 |
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| Riddell | jdub: you don't want to know what it means in portugese | 01:49 |
| jdub | wait | 01:50 |
| jdub | no | 01:50 |
| jdub | really, i do | 01:50 |
| Seveas | Riddell/jdub: I'm setting up hostname cloaks on freenode. Do you want one? | 01:58 |
| crimsun | you're the group contact? | 02:00 |
| Riddell | Seveas: I already have a KDE one | 02:00 |
| Seveas | crimsun, yes | 02:00 |
| Seveas | Riddell, you can choose (and maybe even combine) | 02:00 |
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| jdub | Seveas: i am ok, thanks | 02:01 |
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| ajmitch | afternoon | 02:36 |
| crimsun | hi ajmitch | 02:37 |
| bddebian | Heya ajmitch, crimsun | 02:48 |
| crimsun | hey bddebian | 02:48 |
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| jody_lap | The version of gnumeric in breezy is broken. Unfortunately the 1.6.0 version missed inclusion by a few days, and 1.5.90 has a crasher that's hitting alot of users. Is it possible to get an update with 1.6.0 pushed ? | 04:47 |
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| pupil | Hi guys,. I want to utilize pxe boot or etherboot for a wireless card ( DWL-G510 Wireless Adapter) I am not sure how to go about doing this | 05:15 |
| _maydayjay_ | pupil - PXE only working on wired from the looks of all the info in the wiki....probably should ask this on #ubuntu | 05:21 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, I was hoping to add madwifi to the sources somehow to add my card to the probe . | 05:22 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, well not all of madwifi,. but support for my wireless card.. I'm not sure how I'm gonna do it,. cause I need this to boot from hardrive,. so I have enough space. | 05:23 |
| === Lathiat wonders if its actually psosible to netboot from wireless | ||
| pupil | Lathiat, there would certainly be more configuration, as far as the card goes... | 05:25 |
| Lathiat | pupil: i have my doubts as to whether its supported | 05:25 |
| Lathiat | pupil: good luck i gues, | 05:25 |
| pupil | Lathiat, I don't think its supported,. but I think I can hack it out | 05:25 |
| pupil | Lathiat, my card is supported,. all I need to be able to do is be able to detect and configure it to detect dhcp | 05:26 |
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| pupil | Lathiat, there are wireless cards that support wake on lan | 05:27 |
| pupil | I'm a little over my head though,. would love some help | 05:28 |
| Lathiat | pupil: WoL is totally separate to netbooting | 05:28 |
| pupil | Lathiat, right. | 05:28 |
| pupil | heh | 05:28 |
| pupil | Lathiat, do you think its possible to netboot from wireless adapter? | 05:29 |
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| Lathiat | pupil: no actual idea | 05:29 |
| pupil | hmm | 05:29 |
| Lathiat | pupil: try the pxe mailing lists/irc channels or whatever | 05:30 |
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| _maydayjay_ | pupil - if wireless is essential you could use a wireless to ethernet bridge device to get around this. | 05:43 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, what do you mean? | 05:44 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, I don't see how it would solve problem,. because when coputer starts,. ith as to detect wireless card,. first issue.,. then it has to look for dhcp | 05:45 |
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| _maydayjay_ | pupil - wireless to ethernet bridge is a box that acts as a wireless client and converts the link to a wired ethernet jack - connect that to an ethernet(wired) interface on the computer you are trying to do PXE with. | 05:50 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, ic,. I found an intersting site .. but I'm unclear as to whether he is booting from wiresless adapter,. | 05:51 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, http://nlug.org/mail/nlug__2001_04/0338.html | 05:51 |
| jayakumar2 | _maydayjay_, i have not seen a bios based pxe client that knows about any wifi chip | 05:51 |
| pupil | jayakumar2, maybe its time to make one | 05:52 |
| pupil | jayakumar2, its not like wireless home network is uncomon | 05:52 |
| Amaranth | pupil: good luck with that | 05:53 |
| pupil | lol | 05:53 |
| Amaranth | pupil: I can see it _maybe_ being possible for intel to do it with their wireless laptop setup | 05:53 |
| Amaranth | otherwise you'd need a new bios everytime you got a new card | 05:53 |
| jayakumar2 | i don't think i've even seen pxe support for usb eth | 05:53 |
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| _maydayjay_ | pupil - LTSP has a wireless package. You are more than likely going to need to create a bootable CD. | 05:54 |
| _maydayjay_ | brb | 05:54 |
| pupil | Amaranth, all I'm saying is to start you'd have to be able to compile the driver into whatever pxe your using,. and then have a script to set it up | 05:54 |
| jayakumar2 | Amaranth, i believe most eth chips have a prom that implements the x86 pxe interface (set of inb/outb calls) | 05:54 |
| jayakumar2 | so i would assume if a wifi chip implemented the same interface | 05:55 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, what do you mean wireless package,.? you mean boot from wireless card? | 05:55 |
| Amaranth | jayakumar2: then couldn't we use that to write a generic driver for all cards? | 05:55 |
| jayakumar2 | Amaranth, yes, that's correct. pxe clients all use that same generic interface | 05:55 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, yeah,. bootable cd is right | 05:55 |
| jayakumar2 | that's why pxe can fit in a 256kbit flash for bios | 05:56 |
| Amaranth | what does regular network access need that isn't available with the pxe api? | 05:56 |
| pupil | could this be the begginings of a new project | 05:57 |
| jayakumar2 | i don't know. i'd have to check the pxe spec. it should all be in there except it'd be slow since it'd be IO based | 05:57 |
| Amaranth | sure, but it'd be better than nothing for cards without real drivers | 05:57 |
| jayakumar2 | agreed | 05:58 |
| _maydayjay_ | pupil - here is the announcement about the LTSP wireless support http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=686348&forum_id=2543 | 06:01 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, thank you | 06:02 |
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| rockie | hi you all ,how to recover my gpg key from keyserver | 06:05 |
| Amaranth | rockie: If you've lost the private key there is no way to get it back. | 06:05 |
| Amaranth | rockie: The private key never goes to the keyserver. | 06:05 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, take a look http://www.route1.com/ | 06:06 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, I went there for an interview... | 06:06 |
| rockie | my home direction was deleted | 06:07 |
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| rockie | It's mean that I shall re-upload my key again? | 06:07 |
| Amaranth | rockie: Unless you made a backup of your key it is lost forever and anything you used it with can't be used anymore until the new key is registered | 06:08 |
| Amaranth | rockie: so if you had your key signed by anyone or used it for logins you need to do all of that over again | 06:08 |
| Amaranth | rockie: but you can just make a new key and register it with a keyserver again, sure | 06:09 |
| pupil | IT CAN BE DONE | 06:09 |
| pupil | http://www.freebsddiary.org/wireless-install.php | 06:09 |
| pupil | Read em and weep | 06:09 |
| rockie | thanks | 06:10 |
| pupil | you guys reading that? | 06:12 |
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| _maydayjay_ | pupil - good find - if it can be done on FreeBSD then it's doable on linux... Or you could just use the freebsd solution if all you want is a thin client. | 06:13 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, true,. but,. I'm on ubuntu,. maybe a port is possible,. | 06:13 |
| ajmitch | all that appears to show is booting off a floppy, not pxe | 06:15 |
| pupil | ajmitch, its a start | 06:15 |
| pupil | I'm thinkin boot cd | 06:16 |
| ajmitch | like the live cd which does wireless now? | 06:17 |
| pupil | ajmitch, well,. i want to do ltsp via wireless | 06:18 |
| _maydayjay_ | pupil - check http://thinstation.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/ThIndex | 06:18 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, yeah,. I see it | 06:20 |
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| pupil | brb | 06:22 |
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| pupil | _maydayjay_, the guy release a wireless version,. wow,. | 06:35 |
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| _maydayjay_ | pupil - #ltsp has a wireless discussion happening ... channel is slow though... | 06:41 |
| pupil | I'm on ltsp | 06:42 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, that page you gave me is helpful,.. extremely helpful | 06:44 |
| pupil | gonna see how it works | 06:44 |
| _maydayjay_ | Cool let me know how it works out... I have a situation where it might be useful if performance is acceptable. | 06:45 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, I'll tell yah,. if it works out on my P133 64mb edo ram,. I think you'll be ok,. I already have thin client working well on etherboot,. time to see how it does on wireless | 06:46 |
| Lathiat | it depends how many clients you want to have... | 06:46 |
| Lathiat | and whether its 11b or 11g | 06:46 |
| Lathiat | overall i dont think itd be crash hot tho | 06:47 |
| pupil | the guy that created ltsp is coming to my city,. Toronto, Canda, for tomorrow and Monday | 06:48 |
| pupil | He's giving a lecture on it | 06:48 |
| pupil | at a college | 06:49 |
| _maydayjay_ | pupil - I'm in Burlinton, Ont...not to far from TO. Where is the lecture? | 06:49 |
| pupil | Seneca college | 06:49 |
| _maydayjay_ | Free admission? | 06:49 |
| pupil | I'm not sure, He did not indicate that it cost anything | 06:49 |
| pupil | I will check seneca's site | 06:50 |
| _maydayjay_ | Thx... | 06:50 |
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| pupil | http://cs.senecac.on.ca/soss/2005/speakers.php | 06:53 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, wow,. this dude spent like 5 dedicated hours with me on each day,.. 3 days in a row,. | 06:54 |
| pupil | so 15 hours | 06:54 |
| pupil | or close to that | 06:54 |
| _maydayjay_ | Looks like a great conference...I'll see if I can get the time off work to attend some of it. Thanks for the info! | 06:57 |
| pupil | _maydayjay_, no probs | 06:58 |
| pupil | Seneca is stepping up it seems | 06:58 |
| _maydayjay_ | Sure does...glad to see opensource getting the attention it deserves in the Canadian Education system! | 07:00 |
| _maydayjay_ | brb | 07:00 |
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| Amaranth | goodnight all | 07:40 |
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| jsgotangco | hi all | 07:56 |
| Treenaks | morning jsgotangco | 08:00 |
| ajmitch | hi jsgotangco, Treenaks | 08:01 |
| Treenaks | *yaawn* | 08:01 |
| Treenaks | 8:00 and already up for 3 hours | 08:02 |
| fabbione | Treenaks: welcome to the club :) | 08:03 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: dude, it's Sunday | 08:04 |
| Treenaks | and I've been hacking python-gst stuff | 08:04 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 08:05 |
| fabbione | Treenaks: i am trying to get 2.6.14 to build... | 08:05 |
| Treenaks | fabbione: is it so broken? | 08:06 |
| [Chameleon] | Treenaks: bummer... jahshaka requires QT3 | 08:08 |
| fabbione | Treenaks: not at all.. | 08:08 |
| fabbione | Treenaks: just cleaning up bits | 08:08 |
| Treenaks | so when dapper opens we'll have LOADS of new crack :) | 08:09 |
| Treenaks | seb had a new rhythmbox ready as well | 08:09 |
| [Chameleon] | mmm crack | 08:09 |
| jsgotangco | that would be fun indeed | 08:09 |
| === [Chameleon] is really enjoying the composite crack | ||
| Treenaks | ooh, yes, that too | 08:10 |
| [Chameleon] | I got it setup to fade in/out windows | 08:10 |
| [Chameleon] | freaking awesome | 08:10 |
| Treenaks | [Chameleon] : fading windows? that sounds MovieOS, talk to ogra ;) | 08:10 |
| [Chameleon] | Treenaks: yeah | 08:10 |
| [Chameleon] | Treenaks: across dual monitors | 08:10 |
| [Chameleon] | it's so sexy | 08:10 |
| [Chameleon] | all my menus fade in/out when I access them, too | 08:11 |
| [Chameleon] | even the tool tips fade | 08:11 |
| crimsun | fabbione: excellent, that means we can kill lots of the alsa dpatches :-) | 08:13 |
| fabbione | crimsun: they are all gone already | 08:13 |
| crimsun | fabbione: righto | 08:13 |
| Treenaks | Is there/has there been any work on unifying/fixing the WiFi drivers? | 08:14 |
| Treenaks | As mentioned in some post I read linked from planet gnome (re: networkmanager) | 08:14 |
| jsgotangco | brb | 08:16 |
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| nnonix | I'm thinking of filing a big report for network-manager (which would be my first bug report) and wondered if someone (familiar with network-manager) here might want to check my logic before I do so? I've had no real feedback from ppl in #Ubuntu. | 09:53 |
| nnonix | er, that's BUG report ... | 09:53 |
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| LaschW | Does bug 17302 mean that fglrx isn't working at all for breezy? | 10:12 |
| Treenaks | it works..ish | 10:15 |
| Treenaks | and I have a PCIE X700 | 10:15 |
| LaschW | Here all my ATI 9100 (r200) cards freeze the system since there is a new fglrx module. And it is reproducable for a lot of other ATI Cards | 10:16 |
| LaschW | This is very poor due to the fact that fglrx worked fine with the older fglrx modules. | 10:18 |
| bob2 | doesn't X come with Free accelerated drivers for 9100s, anyway? | 10:19 |
| LaschW | bob2: :-/ accelerated? I would call it slowerated, 3D accelleration is more than poor | 10:20 |
| bob2 | ok then! | 10:20 |
| LaschW | I can't get even one ATI AGP card working with fglrx. (9100 to 9800) | 10:22 |
| LaschW | bob2: And a propper 3d accelleration is a must for CAD/CAM | 10:22 |
| LaschW | And up to now I can't finde even one who get an ATI AGP card working with fglrx | 10:23 |
| LaschW | So breezy had working fglrx modules in the past, will ubuuntu a) remove the nonworking fglrx or b) bring back the working fglrx modules | 10:26 |
| === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| LaschW | In the moment this fglrx problem is a nogo criteria for an OEM to use breezy | 10:31 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: fglrx is not supported, and ATi breaks it every once in a while.. | 10:32 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: complain there | 10:32 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: No I dwon't. Thare was a working fglrx in breezy in the past and it's Ubuntu to bring this back. Or, as I said, we (an OEM) will drop Ubuntu | 10:34 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: And I will bet most other OEM's will do so... | 10:35 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: s/dwon't. Thare/won't. There/ | 10:36 |
| === sivang --> attached | ||
| sivang | Morning all | 10:36 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: That one was broken in lots of other interesting ways for other people | 10:37 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: The problem with the fglrx driver is that it's closed-source (for the most part) and written by ATi, not by us. We do test, and you had the opportunity to test during the release cycle | 10:38 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: I won't say so. It was working for most all ATI cards in the past. Up to now it is only working for a few PCIE cards. | 10:38 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: Well, explain your problem better in the bug then | 10:38 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: it might get fixed | 10:38 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: I'm not talking about closed source. I'm talking about bringing back the working fglrx modules! | 10:38 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: Those were broken for (for example) me | 10:39 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: There is a bug 17302 | 10:39 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: Add a comment to it that you're experiencing it too, and why you feel the severity should be higher than it currently is | 10:39 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: And I don't think you have tested it on such a variet5y of cards than we have... | 10:39 |
| bob2 | come on folks | 10:40 |
| bob2 | whinging on irc does not fix anything | 10:40 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: I haven't, the laptop team has. | 10:40 |
| bob2 | the bug is filed, people will look at it | 10:40 |
| === Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-100-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| LaschW | bob2: I'm not whinging. I just lay my finger in an open wound. Which as I've said is a nogoi criteria for at least one OEM. Only a small one (turnover 230M EUR in 2004) | 10:42 |
| LaschW | If hwdb.ubuntu.com would be online you might have received a lot of complains. | 10:45 |
| LaschW | hwdb.ubuntu.com is in 'maintainance mode' since weeks | 10:46 |
| infinity | LaschW : The current fglrx drivers are the very first version ever that have worked on my hardware. | 10:49 |
| infinity | LaschW : That said, dapper will open with a shiny new fglrx version that is expected to work much better for everyone. No, breezy won't get them. | 10:50 |
| LaschW | infinity: PCIE cards I would think? | 10:50 |
| LaschW | infinity: From an OEM's point of view it would be very helpfull if something like hwdb.ubuntu.com would be online to verify which cards are working and which not. | 10:52 |
| LaschW | infinity: Also from a users point of view | 10:52 |
| Treenaks | LaschW: Ubuntu is not only about OEMs | 10:52 |
| bob2 | ogra: what's up with the hwdb site? | 10:52 |
| LaschW | bob2: Its in maintainance mode, since breezy release | 10:53 |
| infinity | LaschW : I'm fairly sure bob2 can read, however he's asking the man responsible for it. | 10:54 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: So Ubuntu is not interested in OEM's shiping pre installed systems? Good to know, thanks a lot... | 10:54 |
| bob2 | LaschW: stop it, no one is saying that | 10:55 |
| infinity | LaschW : Anyhow, the above comment was correct, it's a closed driver and I can't do much of anything about it. I'm sorry that it seems to be broken for SOME people, but it seems to work quite well for many others, and I can't find a magical version that works for everyone, cause there isn't one. | 10:55 |
| LaschW | Treenaks: Pardon me for beeing sarcastic... | 10:55 |
| ajmitch | LaschW: going from 'not only OEMs' to 'ubuntu doesn't care' is a big jump ;P | 10:55 |
| infinity | LaschW : Note that we expect most OEMs would be shipping with the "ati" and "nv" drivers, not "fglrx" and "nvidia". | 10:56 |
| === lbm [n=lbm@x1-6-00-13-10-7a-d1-e4.k233.webspeed.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| infinity | LaschW : The free drivers, though lacking in the acceleration department, DO work. | 10:56 |
| infinity | LaschW : The non-free drivers work for some people, sometimes, but never for everyone. | 10:57 |
| LaschW | ajmitch: Apologize, see it as a sarcastic comment | 10:57 |
| ajmitch | I would think that an OEM would be able to select & use the driver they wanted to? | 10:58 |
| LaschW | infinity: Shure, but tell that a customer... | 10:58 |
| LaschW | ajmitch: We are able to do so, but our customers don't. And for us it's a must that also a customer is able to install the needed packages. We did so for RH and SUSE. And so there are only this distributions wich stay as candidates for a shipping of pree installed systems. | 11:00 |
| infinity | I could trivially prepare some updated packages for testing, which you could distribute, but they'd get ZERO support from us (as we're not putting a newer fglrx into the breezy repository) | 11:01 |
| LaschW | infinity: What about the idea to have a repository where a customer may find a set of different module versions? (just an idea comming in my mind) | 11:03 |
| bob2 | you're welcome to create such a repository | 11:03 |
| infinity | Indeed. | 11:03 |
| zyga | hmm | 11:03 |
| === zyga just recalled that fglrx for amd64 is broken | ||
| LaschW | infinity: E.G a repository where one can get the old breezy and fglrx modules? | 11:04 |
| infinity | As a rule, we'd expect OEMs to show a bit of initiative with driver issues like this. | 11:04 |
| infinity | Microsoft doesn't press new Windows CDs for you with new driver support on them. | 11:04 |
| Seveas | Microsoft and driver 'support'.... | 11:04 |
| Seveas | looks funny in one sentence | 11:04 |
| LaschW | bob2: :-)) If I only had access on a repository where all the old packages lay around. There is no archive I've found up to now... | 11:05 |
| ajmitch | especially as new hardware comes out that isn't supported by the current stable distribution | 11:05 |
| zyga | LaschW: what about the morgue? | 11:05 |
| LaschW | zyga: morgue? tell me more | 11:05 |
| zyga | LaschW: http://morgue.ubuntu.com/ | 11:06 |
| zyga | if that is what you are looking for | 11:06 |
| infinity | That's not really going to work for you anyway. | 11:06 |
| zyga | oh, it's quite emtpy | 11:06 |
| bob2 | are you really willing to tell your customers "oh, it doesn't work? try installing each of the ten drivers on blah.com and see which works" | 11:06 |
| infinity | If you try to set your users up to use older packages, they'll just get upgraded the first time they do an online update. | 11:06 |
| === Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487DA3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| zyga | LaschW: are you having issues with fglrx? | 11:07 |
| LaschW | bob2: No. Our sitiuation is a bit more complex. We are a b2b manufacturer for what we call "After Work resellers", very small computer shops. And this customers need working systems, and 3D accelleration is a big momentum for this people | 11:09 |
| LaschW | zyga: Yepp | 11:09 |
| zyga | LaschW: did you try the latest version straight from ati? | 11:10 |
| LaschW | zyga: *grrmmbl* Yes I did. Never seen such a crap before... | 11:10 |
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| zyga | LaschW: (next time buy nvidia) | 11:11 |
| zyga | LaschW: anyway you are cooked, as someone has already said - previous versions were buggy too | 11:11 |
| LaschW | zyga: Ever tried the ATI installer? Try distribution customized install. And you will see an error about not able to find /lib/linux386/lib$FOO | 11:11 |
| === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| LaschW | zyga: Seems ATI guys never even startet their own installer. As I said crap.. | 11:12 |
| zyga | LaschW: I never tried the ati installer, I did try to use some prepackaged drivers in my fedora 1 days but that was long time ago | 11:12 |
| zyga | mvo: morning | 11:12 |
| ajmitch | hi mvo | 11:13 |
| === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-181.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| zyga | WaterSevenUb: hi :-) | 11:14 |
| LaschW | zyga: Right, RH fedora and SUSE packages are working. At least yesterday... So thats what makes me go up the trees... | 11:14 |
| WaterSevenUb | zyga, hi there:) goodmorning. | 11:14 |
| LaschW | zyga: I tried to offer ATI a helping hand making their installer work. But thei wanted me to pay for to do their job.... | 11:15 |
| zyga | LaschW: are they based (Suse/rh/fedora) on the latest version? | 11:15 |
| LaschW | zyga: Yepp, as far as I saw | 11:16 |
| zyga | LaschW: then there is something magical about them - you've said that the lastest drivers from ati are not working | 11:17 |
| === zyga needs to go to work | ||
| zyga | LaschW: good luck with solving your issues | 11:17 |
| LaschW | the new ATI installer is not bad, on the first look. It offers to build deb packages. But isn't able due to do so due to wrong path definitions. | 11:17 |
| sivang | morning mvo, zyga, ajmitch, infinity, Seveas | 11:18 |
| mvo | hey zyga, ajmitch | 11:18 |
| === kyncani2 [n=kyncani@82.253.217.81] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| LaschW | zyga: At least the last fglrx drivers dont work for 8500 to 9800 agp on boards with Via, nvidia and intel chipset | 11:19 |
| Seveas | oi sivang | 11:22 |
| zyga | sivang: morning :-) | 11:22 |
| === zyga needs an IRC client that displays message like 'you've been starring at this window for the last 5 minutes, get back to work!' | ||
| sivang | interesting note from someone we know about spec ,) http://kerneltrap.org/node/5725 | 11:25 |
| sivang | s/spec/specs/ | 11:28 |
| === LaschW [n=LaschW@dyndsl-085-016-012-071.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| zyga | sivang: ah, so last week | 11:29 |
| === kyncani3 [n=kyncani@lns-bzn-40-82-251-179-212.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
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| === MasterC [n=chans@dslb-084-060-229-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| \sh | moins | 11:53 |
| Seveas | oi | 11:54 |
| ajmitch | hey \sh | 11:54 |
| \sh | oh well...i need a life...sleeping next to my laptop is not the meaning of a working relationship... | 11:55 |
| zyga | \sh: next time sleep next to your laptop *and* your girlfriend | 11:57 |
| \sh | i mean, ok the laptop is warm and doesn't snorr, but I prefere a more softer version of someone in my bed | 11:57 |
| sivang | \sh: hehe, Moins! | 11:57 |
| sivang | \sh: at least you slept well? | 11:59 |
| \sh | zyga: hmmm..question: if you would be a girlfriend and you see, that your boyfriend has a laptop in his bed...would you sleep next to him? ;) | 11:59 |
| zyga | err | 11:59 |
| zyga | \sh: mine does | 11:59 |
| zyga | \sh: she's got a laopto too BTW ;-) | 11:59 |
| zyga | (sometimes she preres my psp and just dumps the laptop) | 11:59 |
| \sh | zyga: damn...I knew I made something wrong in my life ,-) | 12:00 |
| === thoreauputic [n=prospero@wolax9-135.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| zyga | \sh: you should have bought you gf a psp :-) | 12:00 |
| === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.6] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| \sh | zyga: well....I tried, but sony didn't release the psp just in time...so now I could buy a psp, but I don't know a place for buying a gf *eg* | 12:01 |
| \sh | sivang: somehow yes...right now I'm prepared for long ubz sessions :) | 12:02 |
| zyga | \sh: well, if I were you I'd buy the psp anyway, gf will come along one day | 12:02 |
| === zyga needs to downgrade psp again | ||
| \sh | zyga: serious...I'm not in this gamers business...the last time I bought a portable gaming device was for my son...and I was too stupid to play with it... | 12:03 |
| zyga | \sh: how old are you if I may ask? | 12:04 |
| === [Chameleon] [n=Paul@000f660c9c52.click-network.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| \sh | zyga: in january 35 | 12:05 |
| WaterSevenUb | mvo, I received an email from a user concerned with Synaptic translations in debian unstable to portuguese... did you talk to him? | 12:05 |
| \sh | zyga: an old fart | 12:05 |
| zyga | \sh: ever since I bought my first game console I dumped pc gaming, I'm 23 now and after 5 consoles I'm pretty much addicted | 12:05 |
| zyga | \sh: nah | 12:05 |
| WaterSevenUb | mvo, I think he was using pt_BR instead of pt_PT. | 12:05 |
| zyga | \sh: you're very old school ;-) | 12:05 |
| WaterSevenUb | mvo, unless there is some problem in debian unstable. | 12:05 |
| zyga | \sh: anyway - gameplay is the only way I rest mentally (apart from sleep) really | 12:06 |
| mvo | WaterSevenUb: no, I haven't | 12:06 |
| === zyga is amazed by httpd for psp :-) | ||
| \sh | zyga: I played some xbox games the last time I was visiting ogra...but I'm having trouble to control those big xbox-controls | 12:07 |
| sivang | \sh: what did you prepare? | 12:07 |
| zyga | \sh: I have a gamecube and psp currently, both are a marvel | 12:07 |
| maswan | \sh: so does most humans. :) | 12:07 |
| maswan | \sh: those controllers are huge | 12:08 |
| === sivang ditched gaming in favor of programming around the age of 10 | ||
| zyga | \sh: try a gamecube with your son at a retail store, there are great multiplayer games too | 12:08 |
| maswan | http://ps2vsxbox.istheshit.net/ | 12:08 |
| zyga | \sh: (for kids that is) | 12:08 |
| maswan | is the classic illustration of that. :) | 12:08 |
| [Chameleon] | \sh: there are smaller xbox controllers available | 12:08 |
| zyga | sivang: what!? | 12:08 |
| === zyga ditched gaminig in favour of learing how to write games in 6th grade | ||
| \sh | sivang: nothing special..but now I slept so long, that I don't need to sleep again ;) | 12:09 |
| === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| \sh | zyga: he tried..that's why I bought him 2 or 3 years ago a PS2 | 12:11 |
| \sh | zyga: and the only game he wanted to play was "Quidditch" and "Fifa Soccer"... | 12:12 |
| \sh | games even | 12:12 |
| Lathiat | heh quidditch | 12:12 |
| zyga | \sh: argh | 12:12 |
| === zyga plans to show his son adom/nethack as soon as he gets one | ||
| zyga | (son that is) | 12:12 |
| zyga | anyone who can appreciate adom is a worthy gamer :-) | 12:13 |
| === herzi [n=herzi@c208251.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| \sh | zyga: adom? this rogue like adv game which is not OSS? | 12:13 |
| zyga | \sh: the very same | 12:13 |
| zyga | \sh: while it'd be nice for the source to be FOSS it's a good thing it's not IMHO | 12:14 |
| zyga | (but that's really offtopic unless we have #ubuntu-fun or #ubuntu-lazy-devel | 12:15 |
| \sh | zyga: right | 12:15 |
| HiddenWolf | zyga, -offtopic | 12:16 |
| HiddenWolf | actually exists | 12:16 |
| zyga | :D | 12:17 |
| === nomed [n=debaser@host246-197.pool8254.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| nomed | hi all | 12:17 |
| nomed | what the diff. between xterminal and xfce4-termianl? | 12:18 |
| [Chameleon] | nomed: try asking in #ubuntu. This is not a support channel. | 12:19 |
| nomed | [Chameleon] , i asked here just because i think it's a "bug" | 12:20 |
| nomed | take a look on those pkges | 12:20 |
| nomed | cu | 12:20 |
| [Chameleon] | nomed: what about them do you think is a bug? | 12:20 |
| zyga | nomed: apt-get source xterm && apt-get source xfce4-terminal && diff -Naur xterm-203 xfce4-terminal-0.2.4 | less | 12:21 |
| [Chameleon] | zyga: hehe | 12:21 |
| WaterSevenUb | mvo, have you uploaded translations upstream? | 12:21 |
| nomed | zyga, xterminal not xterm | 12:21 |
| zyga | nomed: ah, sorry | 12:22 |
| nomed | the only diff seems the Maint | 12:22 |
| nomed | and the name | 12:22 |
| mvo | WaterSevenUb: synaptic translations? | 12:22 |
| zyga | nomed: the diff is around 1000 lines | 12:22 |
| WaterSevenUb | mvo, yeah | 12:23 |
| \sh | nomed: Conflicts: terminal, xterminal | 12:23 |
| \sh | nomed: in xfce4-terminal that is... | 12:23 |
| === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| nomed | \sh ok | 12:24 |
| \sh | nomed: please ask the xfce4 devs ( janimo e.g.) | 12:24 |
| spayne | mornin' all | 12:24 |
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| mvo | WaterSevenUb: I commit everything I get to the synaptic svn | 12:24 |
| jayakumar2 | infinity, fwiw, i think it's a waste that everyone (users,distro folk, oems, devels) expend so much effort on trying to get 3d gfx support working. all that frustration. rev eng specs. 8k/4k problems. etc | 12:24 |
| \sh | ok..laters...need some coffee and something to eat | 12:25 |
| WaterSevenUb | mvo, ok... great. | 12:25 |
| zyga | mvo: what changes do you plan to implement in update-manager, if any? | 12:26 |
| mvo | zyga: I'm undecided about that, probably some gui cleanups in the software-preferences dialog. the rest will depend on UBZ | 12:28 |
| zyga | mvo: I've got three questions for you | 12:28 |
| zyga | mvo: would you concider moving from cvs to something else? | 12:28 |
| infinity | jayakumar2 : I agree, tell ATI. Telling me it's a waste of time doesn't do much good. | 12:29 |
| zyga | mvo: would you concider adding a apps vs packages tabs to the upgrade list (so that users know about applications that matter the most and about other stuff they might not understand) | 12:29 |
| zyga | mvo: if so would you accept a third tab, translations | 12:29 |
| zyga | mvo: (OTOH: it would be good to add reddish background on updates from security.*) | 12:30 |
| zyga | mvo: we can take this to priv if you like | 12:30 |
| mvo | zyga: can we possibly talk about this after ubz? then I have a better idea about what time I can allocate for what task? | 12:31 |
| zyga | mvo: okay | 12:31 |
| zyga | mvo: I could implement the tab part | 12:31 |
| mvo | in general I like the idea about e.g. having something "redish" for secuirty and telling the user that libxy is "System" and "libopenoffice" belongs to the Openoffic applikation. and that langpack-en-update means, that the translations are updated | 12:32 |
| zyga | mvo: I'd need to know how much backend/frontend separation are you planning | 12:32 |
| mvo | but I wouldn't want to do it with tabs most likely | 12:32 |
| mvo | zyga: python-apt is getting into good shape, I hope that the backend that installs the packages can be python-apt (instead of synaptic) for the next release | 12:33 |
| zyga | mvo: why? | 12:33 |
| mvo | zyga: mostly because it makes integration into the app easier | 12:33 |
| mvo | and gives more flexibility | 12:33 |
| zyga | hmm, I'm not sure I follow | 12:33 |
| zyga | (I asked about tabs) | 12:34 |
| mvo | oh, tabs | 12:34 |
| zyga | I do understand backend separation, it's a good thing | 12:34 |
| mvo | tabs get easily confusing. I wonder if we shouldn't just sort the list (e.g. security, apps, translaions) | 12:34 |
| zyga | mvo: since I quite disagree I'll prepare some mockups today :-) | 12:35 |
| zyga | maybe you will change your mind later :) | 12:35 |
| mvo | zyga: feel free, my opinion is not set in stone | 12:38 |
| mvo | :) | 12:38 |
| zyga | mvo: actually I've got something interesting, I'll make the mockup, write a blog entry about it and send you the link, fine? | 12:41 |
| === infinity agrees with mvo. | ||
| === infinity fanboys mvo. | ||
| === zyga still waits for his first fanboy | ||
| === slomo_ is now known as slomo | ||
| === mvo blushes | ||
| === MasterC [n=chans@dslb-084-060-229-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === chris38-home2 [n=Christia@LSt-Amand-152-31-21-96.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| zyga | mvo: do you know any FOSS artwork source? | 12:46 |
| zyga | I'd need a bunch of icons | 12:46 |
| infinity | zyga : openclipart.org | 12:47 |
| infinity | Which is down right now, cause they were naughty, naughty boys and had a horribly insecure script running in their vhost. | 12:48 |
| infinity | But they'll be back soon, I assume. | 12:48 |
| zyga | infinity: thanks, good to know | 12:49 |
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| zyga | hmm | 12:52 |
| zyga | there is a bug in mozilla-thunderbird postinst script | 12:53 |
| zyga | seems like a typo | 12:53 |
| infinity | Which bug is that? | 12:53 |
| infinity | The misplacement of "-maxdepth" arguments to find? | 12:53 |
| zyga | infinity: yes | 12:53 |
| infinity | Which is harmless, but incredibly noisy? :) | 12:53 |
| infinity | Will get fixed in dapper, but it's not a problem in breezy, just noisy. | 12:54 |
| zyga | infinity: yes :D | 12:54 |
| infinity | It doesn't affect functionality. | 12:54 |
| zyga | infinity: I've sent a 'screenshot' to my friend I hope to convert | 12:54 |
| zyga | infinity: I had to hide in shame and edith that crap away | 12:54 |
| infinity | Hah. | 12:54 |
| infinity | Yeah, I'm going to do a recursive grep across an entire unpacked source mirror at the beginning of dapper, and try to nail every one of those I can find. | 12:55 |
| infinity | I probably should have just removed the error message from find for breezy, but kinda forgot until it was too late. | 12:55 |
| === kikidonk [n=kikidonk@ip-83-134-5-9.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| infinity | mvo : Oh, while I'm fanboying you, what's up with the rendering bug in update-manager? (the arrow/text for "show progress of single files" seems to appear twice, overlapped) | 01:01 |
| infinity | mvo : I'm fairly sure it has to do with my desktop not being at the default DPI (it goes away when I change DPI to 72), but I also don't see it in other GTK apps, so I'm wondering if maybe you're doing something crazy wrong with positioning.. | 01:02 |
| zyga | infinity: can you get a screenshot | 01:02 |
| infinity | Sure... | 01:03 |
| mvo | infinity: I have seen this as well, it seems to be a GtkSocket/GtkPlug problem | 01:03 |
| mvo | but I would need to check that again | 01:03 |
| infinity | Right, no need for a screenshot then, if you've seen it. :) | 01:03 |
| infinity | Oh well, it's a minor irritation. | 01:04 |
| infinity | Wouldn't matter so much if we weren't currently trying to be so clever and setting laptop DPI based on screen size. | 01:05 |
| infinity | (ie: If we just did the "dumb windows" thing and set everyone to 72dpi, the problem would be masked) | 01:05 |
| infinity | And if my eyesight were better, I'd probably run at 72dpi... | 01:05 |
| infinity | But 72dpi on a 15 inch 1400x1050 screen is.. Really small text. | 01:05 |
| infinity | And I'm getting old. ;) | 01:06 |
| mvo | heh :) | 01:06 |
| mvo | don't be silly ("getting old") | 01:06 |
| Lathiat | i thought 96 was the default | 01:06 |
| infinity | Err, yes, of course it is, I'm backwards. | 01:06 |
| infinity | Really old, AND bad at math! | 01:06 |
| infinity | Or, wait. | 01:07 |
| infinity | No. | 01:07 |
| infinity | Not bad at math. | 01:07 |
| infinity | 72 is the default. | 01:07 |
| infinity | 96 may be a default in some interesting corner cases (and it's what my laptop is set to) | 01:07 |
| infinity | But most desktops will be at 72. | 01:07 |
| HiddenWolf | how does one check? :) | 01:09 |
| Lathiat | oh ok | 01:09 |
| Lathiat | i didnt knwo that | 01:09 |
| Lathiat | both my laptops have been 96 | 01:09 |
| Lathiat | never used anything else | 01:09 |
| Lathiat | altho tghis laptop is _actually_ around 120 | 01:09 |
| infinity | This may be too. | 01:10 |
| infinity | HiddenWolf : It's in font preference, of all non-intuitive things. | 01:10 |
| HiddenWolf | 96 for me. | 01:11 |
| === HiddenWolf checks what dell supports | ||
| Lathiat | kde doesn't seem to have a way of finding it out | 01:11 |
| Lathiat | err | 01:12 |
| Lathiat | s/finding/changing | 01:12 |
| Lathiat | but it does take the X setting | 01:12 |
| Lathiat | where as gnome does not | 01:12 |
| infinity | Yeah, not sure who's more correct there. | 01:12 |
| infinity | With the KDE way, you get the "right" setting, but with GNOME you can actually change it. | 01:12 |
| infinity | You can't change X's DPI on the fly. | 01:12 |
| Lathiat | it should be the 'right' setting | 01:12 |
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| Lathiat | but overridable | 01:12 |
| infinity | (in fact, xdpyinfo on my laptop claims that X thinks I'm at 75dpi) | 01:12 |
| Lathiat | infinity: x _does_ think your at 75dpi | 01:13 |
| Lathiat | infinity: gtk/pango does not | 01:13 |
| infinity | Yes. I know. | 01:13 |
| infinity | But for now, this is (in my mind) the better solution, hack though it may be, cause X can't change it on the fly. | 01:13 |
| === zyga runs away | ||
| infinity | When X gets smarter about geometry changes on the fly, GNOME can stop doing it. | 01:13 |
| HiddenWolf | screen #0: | 01:14 |
| HiddenWolf | dimensions: 1920x1200 pixels (524x331 millimeters) | 01:14 |
| HiddenWolf | resolution: 93x92 dots per inch | 01:14 |
| HiddenWolf | fits with gnome here | 01:15 |
| infinity | it does? | 01:15 |
| infinity | You said GNOME was at 96. | 01:16 |
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| HiddenWolf | hm, true. | 01:17 |
| HiddenWolf | 72 looks odd, btw. :) | 01:17 |
| HiddenWolf | can't find a recomended dpi in the monitor fact sheet. | 01:18 |
| infinity | Looks good on my girlfriend's desktop. | 01:19 |
| infinity | Not that it makes much different, but I probably meant s/72/75/ | 01:21 |
| infinity | At aguess. I can't see her machine right now to confirm. | 01:21 |
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| infinity | But 72 is the Win32 default dpi, 75 is X, so I likely confused the two. | 01:21 |
| HiddenWolf | infinity, http://www.geocities.com/hiddenwolfsof/Screenshot.png | 01:21 |
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| infinity | Oh, note that for extra-hilarity, apps that aren't very GNOME-ish (like firefox and tbird) will respect the X dpi. | 01:23 |
| infinity | So, you'll get the window manager widgets (titlebar, etc) at the GNOME dpi, but the browser widgets at the X dpi, making them look bigger. | 01:23 |
| === infinity decides to go attempt a nap after having been up for the last 36 hours. | ||
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| mvo | infinity: I hope that for dapper this gtksock/gtkplug buisness goes away, then the wrong error should be go away as well | 01:40 |
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| jdub | infinity: ber, just read back the dpi discussion | 01:41 |
| jdub | infinity: i so want to fix this | 01:41 |
| HiddenWolf | jdub, ditching firefox would be good | 01:42 |
| HiddenWolf | jdub, :) | 01:42 |
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| mdke | jdub, planneeeeetttttttt | 01:42 |
| jdub | infinity: i figure that even if X is wrong, it tends to have sensible defaults, so we should just trust X instead of mucking around | 01:42 |
| jdub | mdke: i'm sure you can understand that elmo has been busy | 01:42 |
| mdke | sure i can | 01:43 |
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| jdub | ahr HUNGRY ahr | 01:44 |
| mdke | how is italy jdub ? | 01:44 |
| jdub | haven't seen much, been too sick | 01:45 |
| mdke | :/ | 01:45 |
| mdke | get better soon | 01:45 |
| Simira | jdub: which day is the Rocky Horror Show-thing in Montreal? | 01:47 |
| Simira | I've been told I'm going... | 01:47 |
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| tseng | Simira: be afraid | 01:48 |
| jdub | Simira: um, shush | 01:48 |
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| sivang | Simira: Rocky Horror Show , Montreal? What's that? | 01:51 |
| Simira | sivang: nm, just trying to find out what to do in Montreal, except from bugging Ubuntu-devs | 01:52 |
| Simira | sivang: are you going to UBZ? | 01:52 |
| sivang | Simira: yes :) | 01:52 |
| Simira | sivang: me too. Though I'm planning on touristing a bit as well as working. There's a zoo (with penguins ;) and some interesting museums | 01:53 |
| sivang | Simira: nice, if we do get a free moment (which I doubt ;-)) would be interesting to photo some real penguins for Ubuntu artwork | 01:54 |
| Simira | sivang: else, I'm sure you can get some from Tollef, we visited the penguins in Bergen two weeks ago. ;p Lucky for me, I'm not paid or obligated to do more work than I want to (or choose to), which still happens to be more than healthy.... | 01:55 |
| tseng | jdub: go pia! | 01:56 |
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| sivang | Simira: :) | 02:01 |
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| zyga | back :) | 02:55 |
| zyga | mvo: re | 02:57 |
| zyga | mvo: would you concider moving update-manager from cvs to bzr? | 02:57 |
| zyga | mvo: this way we could work easier together | 03:03 |
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| mantiena | Hi all | 03:06 |
| kbrooks | What if I don't want to insert a long description in debian/control (making a ubuntu package)? | 03:06 |
| Keybuk | you do | 03:06 |
| kbrooks | ? | 03:06 |
| Keybuk | you do want to insert it | 03:06 |
| tseng | if you dont when you upload it to REVU for inclusion in ubuntu we tell you to go back and add it | 03:07 |
| kbrooks | Well, what do I insert if I think it will be too long? | 03:07 |
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| kbrooks | tseng: i'm not uploading it | 03:08 |
| Mithrandir | write it shorter, then | 03:08 |
| kbrooks | OK | 03:08 |
| \sh | jbailey: what was the sources.list to your daily bzr repos? | 03:08 |
| \sh | jbailey: have it ;) | 03:12 |
| mantiena | mdz, hi, are you online? | 03:13 |
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| trulux | BTW, hibernation on Breezy is working right? | 03:58 |
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| sivang | trulux: if you're on nvidia, use the FOSS driver or consult HiddenWolf how to make it work with them :) | 03:59 |
| \sh | trulux: yes...but I have some problems with the fglrx drivers | 03:59 |
| sivang | HiddenWolf: maybe you write a howto about it? I will use it for sure numerous times :-) | 03:59 |
| trulux | I'm on vidia, just thought it would really rock if it worked out of the box | 03:59 |
| HiddenWolf | sivang, dude, nvidia driver hardlocks my kernel here. :) | 03:59 |
| trulux | hah | 04:00 |
| trulux | bbl, lunch time | 04:00 |
| HiddenWolf | sivang, trulux: apt-get install nvidia-glx linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r` , chance nv to nvidia, and reboot. | 04:00 |
| HiddenWolf | change. :) | 04:00 |
| trulux | I'm already using nvidia module | 04:01 |
| kbrooks | i really need to fully reinstall breezy | 04:01 |
| mantiena | Kamion, hi | 04:02 |
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| mantiena | Kamion, could you answer some questions about http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper/casper--automount/ ? | 04:23 |
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| sivang | HiddenWolf: I recall you told me a set of steps, that helped me to get all pm working *with* the previous prorierity driver | 04:36 |
| HiddenWolf | sivang, i can't remember, but the howto's are there on the wiki already. | 04:37 |
| trulux | HiddenWolf: after nvidia gets loaded and used for glx, what's next? | 04:44 |
| HiddenWolf | trulux, should work then, I've never gotten to that piont on breezy. | 04:45 |
| trulux | HiddenWolf: OK, will check. many thanks | 04:46 |
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| Keybuk | hmm, tricky decision | 05:02 |
| Keybuk | do I wipe and reinstall my laptop before or after UBZ? | 05:02 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: before :) | 05:02 |
| fabbione | after UBZ you will be tempt to install dapper ;) | 05:02 |
| Keybuk | lol, that's a good point | 05:02 |
| fabbione | and suffer because it won't | 05:02 |
| fabbione | :( | 05:02 |
| Keybuk | it's running breezy now, just a crufty install | 05:03 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: i am running warty -> hoary -> breezy super hacked install :) | 05:03 |
| fabbione | time to reset the counters | 05:03 |
| Keybuk | yeah, this one was half way through breezy with a very crufty homedir | 05:03 |
| Keybuk | and some things are annoyingly bust (like evo calendars and addressbook) | 05:04 |
| Keybuk | my desktop was a unstable -> warty -> hoary -> breezy special | 05:04 |
| trulux | HiddenWolf: I don't find the info. on the wiki | 05:04 |
| Keybuk | and that got wiped and reinstalled fresh, and it's soooo much nicer | 05:04 |
| \sh | Keybuk: install breezy during UBZ ,) | 05:04 |
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| Keybuk | \sh: I'll be busy during | 05:04 |
| HiddenWolf | trulux, what exactly are you looking for? | 05:04 |
| Kamion | mantiena: not on a Sunday :-) send me mail | 05:04 |
| trulux | HiddenWolf: info on integration and configuration of hibernation stuff | 05:04 |
| trulux | ie. KDE entry in the logout menu | 05:04 |
| HiddenWolf | trulux, doesn't work, usually. | 05:05 |
| \sh | Keybuk: u have the night ;) | 05:05 |
| === fabbione goes for a banana milk shake | ||
| Keybuk | \sh: the night is for drinking and food and bitching and fun | 05:06 |
| \sh | Keybuk: ok ok...you convienced me...do it before ubz | 05:07 |
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| pmjdebruijn | lo all | 05:56 |
| pmjdebruijn | I want my application to also have a Translate This Application in my Help menu, I already added the menu item, but where can I find the associated icon? | 05:56 |
| sivang | pmjdebruijn: hmm, how did you add the menu item? | 05:59 |
| pmjdebruijn | sivang, uhm, add a menu item and call it Translate This Application | 06:00 |
| pmjdebruijn | I didn't add a stock menu item | 06:00 |
| TMM | isn't that supposed to be added by gnome-libs or something? | 06:00 |
| pmjdebruijn | well I'm not writing native C | 06:00 |
| Chipzz | TMM: no, launchpad | 06:01 |
| Chipzz | gnome-libs is like ancient | 06:01 |
| TMM | oeps :) | 06:01 |
| pmjdebruijn | what does launchpad have to do with the menu item? | 06:01 |
| HiddenWolf | pmjdebruijn, the menu item pionts people to launchpad/rosetta | 06:01 |
| pmjdebruijn | HiddenWolf, yes I know, I already did that | 06:02 |
| pmjdebruijn | I just need the icon | 06:02 |
| pmjdebruijn | I can't seem to locate it | 06:02 |
| sivang | pmjdebruijn: there is a special library we created for this, so you don't need to manually add the items. | 06:03 |
| kbrooks | pmjdebruijn: look in /usr/share/pixbufs ? | 06:03 |
| sivang | pmjdebruijn: is this a python app ? | 06:03 |
| sivang | pmjdebruijn: fetch the source for gedit or gucharmap and see how it's done there. Basically you dynamically link against the launchpad integration library and use it's functions to add everything: items, icons, functionality | 06:05 |
| sivang | pmjdebruijn: or look at the source of file-roller if you're app is UIManager | 06:06 |
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| pmjdebruijn | sivang, no it's a Mono/GTK# app | 06:07 |
| zyga | mvo: ping | 06:08 |
| pmjdebruijn | sivang, I'm not sure the integration library is going to work with Mono... | 06:08 |
| pmjdebruijn | sivang, is there an easy way how I can test this? | 06:09 |
| zyga | what is MOM/NDA? | 06:09 |
| pmjdebruijn | kbrooks, yay, it's there, lpi-translate.png | 06:10 |
| pmjdebruijn | kbrooks, /usr/share/pixmaps | 06:10 |
| sivang | zyga: I know that MOM is merge-o-matic | 06:10 |
| kbrooks | pmjdebruijn: :) | 06:10 |
| kent | pmjdebruijn, it doesn't seem to work for mono applications. I tried blam and muine and they dont have that translation-stuff. | 06:10 |
| zyga | sivang: hmm okay that's a clue | 06:10 |
| kbrooks | kent: ^ | 06:10 |
| kbrooks | everyone: ^ | 06:10 |
| zyga | kbrooks: mono? | 06:11 |
| kbrooks | zyga: no | 06:11 |
| kbrooks | the icon | 06:11 |
| zyga | kbrooks: what about it? | 06:11 |
| kbrooks | /usr/share/pixmaps/lpi-translate.png | 06:11 |
| === zyga doesn't have it | ||
| zyga | (just running hoary->breezy upgrade though) | 06:12 |
| === zyga is visiting parents | ||
| kbrooks | lol | 06:12 |
| zyga | kbrooks: what's with that icon btw? | 06:13 |
| kbrooks | zyga: scroll up | 06:14 |
| pmjdebruijn | zyga, i wanted to where it was at | 06:14 |
| kbrooks | " | 06:14 |
| kbrooks | pmjdebruijn kbrooks, yay, it's there, lpi-translate.png | 06:14 |
| kbrooks | pmjdebruijn kbrooks, /usr/share/pixmaps" | 06:14 |
| zyga | ok | 06:15 |
| TMM | hum, is there a tool to simplify patch merging? | 06:18 |
| zyga | TMM: what do you mean by that? | 06:19 |
| TMM | zyga, multiple vi windows with .rej files and the offending c files is beginning to be a tad unproductive ... :) | 06:19 |
| zyga | :-) | 06:19 |
| zyga | TMM: do it one at a time ;-) | 06:20 |
| TMM | perhaps I just need a dualhead setup... | 06:20 |
| zyga | TMM: I don't know of anything that helps really | 06:20 |
| zyga | TMM: vimdiff is nice to see the changes though | 06:20 |
| TMM | :)\ | 06:20 |
| TMM | I'll just go for dualhead, and I'll look into vimdiff | 06:20 |
| TMM | it's just a pretty LARGE patch that is failing | 06:20 |
| TMM | one large diff :) | 06:20 |
| zyga | TMM: did you ever try vimdiff? | 06:21 |
| TMM | no | 06:21 |
| TMM | I will now though :) | 06:21 |
| zyga | TMM: man, you'll be suprised :> | 06:21 |
| TMM | that good, is it? | 06:21 |
| TMM | hmm, not in ubuntu :( | 06:21 |
| zyga | TMM: it's a symlink to vim | 06:22 |
| zyga | TMM: just get vim | 06:22 |
| TMM | ow, it's PART of vim :) | 06:22 |
| zyga | yes | 06:22 |
| TMM | zyga, is it 'just' a diff viewer? | 06:23 |
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| TMM | ah, it does a tad more | 06:25 |
| TMM | nice :) | 06:25 |
| TMM | thanks zyga I think this is going to help | 06:25 |
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| zyga | TMM: plesure | 06:27 |
| zyga | TMM: note, vimdiff can do 3-way-diff too :D | 06:28 |
| TMM | :) | 06:28 |
| zyga | urghh... | 06:29 |
| zyga | why is diveintopython in main again? | 06:29 |
| zyga | it's not that my mom is going to check an english-only book about programming during her tea time | 06:29 |
| Kamion | talk to Mark about that | 06:30 |
| zyga | Kamion: thanks | 06:30 |
| Kamion | we kind of started with *python* and removed things from there rather than the other way round ;-) | 06:30 |
| zyga | Kamion: is that his nickname, he's not around? | 06:30 |
| Kamion | zyga: Mark == sabdfl, the boss | 06:30 |
| zyga | Kamion: ah | 06:30 |
| zyga | sabdfl: ping, hi :) | 06:30 |
| Kamion | although he's probably very busy right now with the launchpad/dapper rollout | 06:30 |
| zyga | okay | 06:30 |
| zyga | Kamion we kind of started with *python* and removed things from there rather than the other way round ;-) | 06:31 |
| jordi | does anyone know if thom is on IRC lately? | 06:31 |
| zyga | Kamion: ^^ I don't understand that | 06:31 |
| zyga | Kamion: Mark, *the* mark? | 06:32 |
| TMM | zyga, the big guy | 06:32 |
| zyga | geez | 06:32 |
| zyga | I've talked to him a couple of times, I never suspected that's him | 06:32 |
| zyga | anyway -- ackward nickname | 06:32 |
| HiddenWolf | zyga, SABDFL is an acronym | 06:32 |
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| TMM | zyga, Self Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life :) | 06:32 |
| zyga | hehehe | 06:33 |
| zyga | that's appropriate :D | 06:33 |
| === zyga likes FOSS names a bit | ||
| Kamion | zyga: Mark loves Python, so we slurped about as much python stuff into main as possible right from the start, and trimmed it down after that | 06:33 |
| zyga | Kamion: I surely understand | 06:33 |
| zyga | Kamion: but while I do like python too, the geatest linux RAD tool around | 06:34 |
| zyga | Kamion: putting a english only book into every desktop for clueless users (without any links or menu items) | 06:34 |
| zyga | Kamion: where normal users never-ever go outside of /home and /media | 06:34 |
| zyga | Kamion: is a waste of space IMHO | 06:34 |
| zyga | Kamion: good effort, bad implementation | 06:34 |
| Kamion | I value my job rather too much to remove something matching /python/ from desktop without checking first. ;-) | 06:34 |
| TMM | Kamion, lol! :D is he THAT passionate? :) | 06:35 |
| zyga | Kamion: python-sucks-use-ruby ^^ Depends: Ruby ;-) | 06:35 |
| zyga | lol | 06:35 |
| zyga | Conflicts: python | 06:35 |
| zyga | hehe | 06:35 |
| zyga | anyway I'd love to see Mark's point | 06:35 |
| sabdfl | TMM: YES! | 06:39 |
| === TMM hides in horror | ||
| === TMM pulls a blanket of his head | ||
| sivang | lol | 06:40 |
| zyga | sabdfl: so basically what I don't understand is | 06:40 |
| zyga | how is a *anyone* ever going to find out that such a valuable piece of knowledge is installed on his/her system | 06:40 |
| sabdfl | good effort, bad implementation? you may have a point. patches welcome | 06:40 |
| zyga | unless someone is really reading the package list | 06:40 |
| === TMM prays the scary spaceguy won't use his raygun | ||
| zyga | or loves to read the upgrade cycle | 06:41 |
| zyga | sabdfl: cool I'll think of something | 06:41 |
| zyga | sabdfl: how about a item in apps->development | 06:41 |
| sabdfl | zyga: good idea | 06:41 |
| zyga | sabdfl: I'd love to patch this if you back up the effort | 06:41 |
| TMM | zyga, sabdfl perhaps add it to the help browser? | 06:41 |
| zyga | TMM: no-one check the help browser | 06:41 |
| jdub | zyga: we're going to have a BOF about this at UBZ (about the 'ubuntu platform', which will cover python) | 06:42 |
| zyga | TMM: everyone is checking the menu | 06:42 |
| sabdfl | zyga, TMM: I would very much like to see this stuff taken further during Dapper | 06:42 |
| zyga | jdub: UBZ is out of my financial reach | 06:42 |
| TMM | zyga, add it to the help browser, and place an icon in the menu to point to the helpbrowser + start point of diveintopython? | 06:42 |
| jdub | zyga: also, wrt documentation, there'll be a BOF and continuing work on exposing what already ships with ubuntu (rather than new docs) | 06:42 |
| TMM | zyga, it'd be nice to have it in a uniform app, I think? | 06:43 |
| zyga | TMM: true, good point | 06:43 |
| jdub | install devhelp, make sure it's not already visible | 06:43 |
| zyga | TMM: adding a menu item that launches help browser is a good idea | 06:43 |
| TMM | jdub, first things first: ARE YOU WEARING PANTS? :D | 06:43 |
| jdub | no | 06:43 |
| zyga | jdub: hmm | 06:44 |
| TMM | euh.... | 06:44 |
| jdub | zyga: system -> help | 06:44 |
| zyga | TMM, jdub: that's yelp - right? | 06:44 |
| jdub | but for diveintopython, look at devhelp (i know doko put some python docs in there, but dunno if he made sure DIP was) | 06:44 |
| TMM | zyga, yeah | 06:44 |
| sivang | jdub: registered in spec tracker / on the wiki ? havn't seen a bof suggestion about it | 06:44 |
| zyga | aww | 06:44 |
| zyga | offtopic | 06:44 |
| zyga | /var/lib/dpkg/info/libgstreamer0.8-0.postinst: line 10: 412 Naruszenie ochrony pamici GST_REGISTRY=/var/lib/gstreamer/0.8/registry.xml gst-register-0.8 >/dev/null | 06:44 |
| zyga | Naruszenie ochrony pamieci == segvfault | 06:45 |
| TMM | jdub, but, if it is installed per default, I don't you should have to install a seperate package to actually use/reat it? | 06:45 |
| jdub | sivang: jbailey and i looked at the DapperStandardBase BOF, figured that would be a good place to start it | 06:45 |
| sivang | jdub: ah cool, figures :) | 06:45 |
| === zyga wonders if he should still do anything as clearly others picked up the subject | ||
| zyga | (and clearly others seem to have better knowledge of the system and the design) | 06:46 |
| TMM | jdub, ow yeah, can you tell me what guy I need to talk to about the gdm stuff again? | 06:46 |
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| sivang | jdub: sounds like this is going to be on long BOF :) | 06:46 |
| zyga | sabdfl: thanks for your time | 06:46 |
| jdub | TMM: that's a problem, but one that i think ought to be solved by not installing it by default, really | 06:46 |
| Kamion | mm, devhelp would be a nice place for it to go in the long run | 06:46 |
| TMM | jdub, be wary of sabdfl's wrath :P | 06:46 |
| sivang | zyga: dive into python is also available through "Applications --> PRogramming" in yelp | 06:46 |
| Robi- | oh man did I have an episode upgrading.. | 06:46 |
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| jdub | TMM: i'm more wary of user experience | 06:47 |
| zyga | sivang: I never run yelp, I didn't even know it's there since most FOSS and win help systems are a laught and many users, me included, have learned to avoid them | 06:47 |
| TMM | jdub, good point :) | 06:47 |
| TMM | sivang, it is :) great, case closed :P | 06:47 |
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| === zyga disagrees | ||
| Robi- | hoary->breezy, mdadm was installed for some readon and started telling me I had degraded arrays, because somehow my second drive which isn't mounted had an array previously. this of course made me think I installed it as raid, and the error messages led nowhere. | 06:48 |
| sivang | zyga: yelp is sweet :) | 06:48 |
| zyga | sivang: letting users know about that is difficult | 06:49 |
| === el_toro [n=jonah@67-40-166-176.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| zyga | sivang: and I think the stake is different here | 06:49 |
| zyga | sivang: 1) there is this great idea about promoting python | 06:49 |
| zyga | sivang: 2) we even get a nice free book about it | 06:49 |
| TMM | jdub, do you have the name of that gdm guy for me please? I forgot... | 06:49 |
| zyga | sivang: 3) aww, it's hidden in the help system -- I'd never look for a book in the help system | 06:49 |
| zyga | sivang: 4) most users don't touch help systems with a 4 feet long stick | 06:50 |
| jsgotangco | zyga: right | 06:50 |
| sivang | zyga: I for my part alwasy mention "Did you know Ubuntu is python oriented?" and when they start asking, I show them the book and the interpreter :) | 06:50 |
| Robi- | zyga, just tell the users that google uses it as their lgue language for everything | 06:50 |
| sivang | (when pushing ubuntu around my commmunities) | 06:50 |
| === zyga likes python - that's not the issue | ||
| zyga | how to launch yelp with generic html? | 06:51 |
| sivang | Robi-: even better, "Does anyone wants to know how google know to speek the Elmar Fud language? Read DIP!" | 06:51 |
| Robi- | so you want a little powered by python graphic somewhere on the desktop? | 06:51 |
| zyga | Robi-: no | 06:51 |
| zyga | Robi-: apps->devel->dive into python | 06:51 |
| zyga | Robi-: after default install | 06:51 |
| zyga | Robi-: basically I want one more desktop file | 06:51 |
| zyga | never underestimate the value of the .desktop files | 06:52 |
| Robi- | it would work, or at least a link to an online tutorial | 06:52 |
| jdub | zyga: that means there'll be one menu item in Programming for normal users by default | 06:52 |
| zyga | jdub: YES but then again THERE IS A BOOK ALREADY | 06:52 |
| jdub | zyga: when it has no relevance whatsoever to them | 06:52 |
| zyga | jdub: by default, just sitting useless | 06:52 |
| jsgotangco | zyga: push html in yelp? it's scrollkeeper aware... | 06:52 |
| zyga | jdub: then ask sabdfl to remove the book ;-) | 06:52 |
| jdub | zyga: and we can provide a better user experience by making sure the documentation appears in devhelp | 06:53 |
| jdub | zyga: this is not an either/or issue, dude | 06:53 |
| TMM | jdub, zyga perhaps there needs to be a python-devel or ubuntu-devel metapackage? | 06:53 |
| jdub | jsgotangco: it's already registered | 06:53 |
| jdub | TMM: that's sort of what we'll be approaching with the 'ubuntu platform' stuff | 06:53 |
| Robi- | zyga, where's the book now ? | 06:53 |
| jsgotangco | jdub: ah yes | 06:53 |
| TMM | jdub, is that on the wiki somewhere? | 06:53 |
| === jsgotangco is in kubuntu atm | ||
| jdub | zyga: you can launch yelp with an html file as a parameter, but it's the wrong fix | 06:54 |
| jdub | TMM: not afaik | 06:54 |
| zyga | Robi-: dpkg-qurey -L diveintopython | 06:54 |
| jdub | maybe our old spec is there | 06:54 |
| zyga | everyone: thanks for noticing the issue | 06:54 |
| zyga | sabdfl: how about a ubuntu-devel metapackage? | 06:55 |
| jdub | zyga: this is a bigger topic than just that | 06:55 |
| Robi- | ya i dont seem to have it | 06:55 |
| zyga | Robi-: ubuntu-desktop depends on diveintopython | 06:56 |
| sabdfl | zyga: the whole point is that python is the easy way to extend your desktop, for everybody | 06:56 |
| sabdfl | not heavy developers | 06:56 |
| zyga | sabdfl: okay | 06:56 |
| sabdfl | we don't add gcc, for example | 06:56 |
| zyga | sabdfl: so the menu link is all we add, agreed? | 06:56 |
| jdub | zyga: that's totally the wrong fix | 06:56 |
| sabdfl | time to focus on the rollout. zyga: sounds like a reasonable start, we can tweak it at UBZ. be nice if you could start work on a spec "introducing the world to python on Ubuntu" | 06:57 |
| zyga | jdub: okay, so how do you propose to fix, or rather -- imoprove this | 06:57 |
| zyga | sabdfl: I'll try but I'm busy with RL work *and* a really huge idea about translations | 06:57 |
| TMM | jdub, zyga, sabdfl well, imho, on default install, there should either be meaningful documentation, and easy access to it, or none at all, and add it to a metapackage | 06:58 |
| zyga | sabdfl: (maybe you've heard about it someplace) | 06:58 |
| === jsgotangco looks with interest | ||
| mvo | zyga: hi, sorry for the lag. I'm a bit busy with RL currently (having friends visiting) | 06:59 |
| zyga | mvo: hi, don't worry | 06:59 |
| jdub | zyga: 1) build search into the user-focused help browser (already a spec for discussion at UBZ), 2) make sure DIP is in devhelp for developer-focused documentation, 3) distinguish DIP's role in the desktop vs. python dev 'platform', 4) link to DIP more usefully from python scripting environments and embedded python documentation in general | 06:59 |
| zyga | mvo: feel free to leave me a message when you've got the time | 06:59 |
| jdub | TMM: in this case, it's already in the user-focused documentation browser, but probably badly categorised, it's not well-linked in useful places (gimp-python, for example), nor is it easy to find in a search because search doesn't exist in yelp yet | 07:01 |
| TMM | jdub, search seems to be the way to go then :D and perhaps add a tutorial on pyglade (I couldn't find it when I was looking, but I might just not have been able to find it) | 07:02 |
| jdub | a major contributor to all of this is the awkwardness of documentation across multiple project silos | 07:02 |
| TMM | jdub, pygtk is there | 07:02 |
| jdub | TMM: got python-gtk2-doc? | 07:03 |
| TMM | jdub, yeah, it's in yelp too | 07:04 |
| zyga | brb, reboot | 07:04 |
| TMM | jdub, nothing about glade in there though. you'd have to know about the relation... | 07:04 |
| jsgotangco | badly registered then or non-existant | 07:05 |
| mvo | zyga: ok | 07:05 |
| TMM | cool\ | 07:09 |
| TMM | xen patches break all ISA stuff | 07:09 |
| TMM | :) | 07:09 |
| jsgotangco | good night | 07:10 |
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| TMM | mjg59, ping? | 07:49 |
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| Robi- | does anyone use vmware? | 07:53 |
| mjg59 | TMM: Hi | 07:54 |
| TMM | hi mjg59 | 07:54 |
| Robi- | someone should make a vmware ubuntu image so it can be used with teh newly released freeware vmware vmc viewer | 07:54 |
| TMM | mjg59, did you have the chance to look at those hotkey patches in malone? and, is that the way you want to receive them? I've been carrying a breezy livecd and popping it into every laptop I come across to get keycodes, and I got a couple new ones | 07:55 |
| mjg59 | TMM: There's a wiki page somewhere - if you could add them there, that would be great | 07:55 |
| TMM | mjg59, ok, cool. | 07:56 |
| kbrooks | Robi-: link | 07:56 |
| TMM | mjg59, and the compaq patch? | 07:56 |
| Kamion | Robi-: mdz has asked me to work on that this coming week | 07:56 |
| mjg59 | TMM: Can't do anything until Dapper opens | 07:56 |
| mdz | s/do/upload/ | 07:57 |
| Robi- | awesome | 07:57 |
| === HiddenWolf grins at mdz | ||
| Robi- | vmware.com should have details | 07:57 |
| mdz | dapper will open soon, one way or another | 07:57 |
| TMM | mjg59, I just wondered if you thought it was ok, that's all :) | 07:57 |
| HiddenWolf | mdz, that doesn't sound good... | 07:57 |
| HiddenWolf | mdz, launchpad not holding it's own yet? | 07:57 |
| mdz | no, literally. there are two ways to do it and we will do one or another ;-) | 07:57 |
| Robi- | hopefully there'll be two images, a small basic install one and a full workstation one.. so there's choice | 07:58 |
| TMM | mjg59, no rush :) | 07:58 |
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| ogra | mdz, is there a way for me to edit the description of https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/screensaver-default-image ? it doesnt really match what is meant :) | 07:58 |
| mdz | Robi-: once we've created a standard desktop image, anyone with vmware will be able to create new images and contribute them | 07:58 |
| mdz | ogra: yes it does; I wrote it and that's what I meant :-) | 07:59 |
| mdz | ogra: what do you think it should say? | 07:59 |
| Robi- | mdz: what's involved in making it? | 07:59 |
| ogra | mdz, sabdfl corrected it a bit when i asked why there is a spec for exchanging a single image file :) | 07:59 |
| mdz | Robi-: that's what Kamion will be learning | 08:00 |
| mdz | as far as the actual VM image, I think it's just a matter of saving it from a running VMWare session | 08:00 |
| ogra | mdz, he wants that the image dir of xscreensaver gets populated by community artwork, calendar etc... thedefault image should only be one aspect | 08:00 |
| ogra | mdz, and the BOF to that pec should develop a general process how to get community artwork in there | 08:01 |
| ogra | *spec | 08:01 |
| Robi- | mdz: i see, yes, just get it working to a certain point, and zip/rar/tar up the vm directory | 08:01 |
| mdz | ogra: updated | 08:01 |
| ogra | mdz, thanks ... i wonder why i cand update it since i'm drafter for it :) | 08:02 |
| Robi- | mdz, but it would be really usefull to have one quickly that is just the base install.. basic english defaults.. | 08:02 |
| ogra | *cant | 08:02 |
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| === zyga is back at home | ||
| sivang | mdz: have you read my overview SetupSnapshots (argh, what a terrible name) spec? What do you think about the general idea? (After discussing with people over here, I am looknig at making it easier then attempting to diff conffiles, more of an aggregation on top of a backup tool) | 08:11 |
| zyga | can anyone remind me the URL to #u-devel log files? | 08:12 |
| mdz | Robi-: feel free to contribute one | 08:12 |
| zyga | and the specs deadline | 08:12 |
| mdz | a desktop install sounds much more useful to me, though | 08:13 |
| Robi- | mdz: installing one now, server boot option.. | 08:13 |
| Kamion | yeah, I expect to only work on one image due to time constraints | 08:13 |
| Kamion | zyga: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 08:13 |
| zyga | thank you Kamion | 08:14 |
| Kamion | what are vmware's procedures for authenticating images they get? | 08:14 |
| sivang | zyga: 27th | 08:14 |
| zyga | Kamion: if memcmp(image, "valid", sizeof "valid") ;-) | 08:14 |
| Kamion | (not that I expect anyone will know, but it's an obvious concern with contributed images) | 08:14 |
| zyga | sivang: darn, so little time | 08:14 |
| Robi- | mdz, kamion, should I use LVM? or plain scsi [1.1G] lvm could be resized later.. | 08:16 |
| mdz | Kamion: I expect vmware leaves that problem up to the user | 08:17 |
| mdz | Robi-: your call | 08:17 |
| Robi- | ok i'll stick to defaults for now | 08:17 |
| HiddenWolf | mdz, what exactly is happening on #launchpad? | 08:19 |
| HiddenWolf | mdz, moving the entire distro to launchpad? | 08:19 |
| mdz | HiddenWolf: using launchpad to manage the package archive | 08:19 |
| HiddenWolf | mdz, pfew | 08:19 |
| sivang | HiddenWolf: right | 08:20 |
| sivang | :) | 08:20 |
| === sivang --> out, be back when home | ||
| jdub | Kamion: do you need vmware license details? | 08:28 |
| jdub | Kamion: or are you going to do it qith qemu? | 08:28 |
| mdz | jdub: he will need vmware | 08:32 |
| jdub | ok, i'll send them | 08:34 |
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| === zyga is crushed :-( | ||
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| Robi- | ok, the base install is all done, where can I stick it? | 08:53 |
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| Robi- | mdz, kamion, where can I upload the image | 08:54 |
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| mantiena | mdz, hi, are you online ? | 09:58 |
| mantiena | mdz, why this patch http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper/casper--automount/ is not included in casper-main or casper-breezy ? | 10:00 |
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| jdub | pitti: what's "Turn Off Computer" in german? | 10:08 |
| jordi | jdub: dude, gnome-session source :) | 10:10 |
| jordi | hmm gdm actually | 10:10 |
| jordi | msgid "Shut _Down" | 10:11 |
| jordi | msgstr "_Herunterfahren" | 10:11 |
| jdub | heh | 10:11 |
| jordi | I was about to suggest that :) | 10:11 |
| jdub | hrm, don't actually mean shut down | 10:11 |
| jordi | what do you mean? Turn off, with the switch? | 10:11 |
| jdub | something slightly vaguer | 10:12 |
| jordi | msgstr "Den Computer _herunterfahren" | 10:12 |
| pitti | jdub: litereally, "Computer ausschalten" | 10:12 |
| jordi | Imagine a german saying "Computer" | 10:12 |
| pitti | jdub: it's a bit more obvious than "shut down" | 10:12 |
| jdub | like the difference between 'shut down' and 'turn off computer' ;) | 10:12 |
| jdub | pitti: thanks | 10:12 |
| pitti | jordi: it is translated as "Rechner", but "Computer" is really common her | 10:12 |
| pitti | e | 10:12 |
| jordi | pitti: nod | 10:13 |
| jdub | pitti: obvious as in "be off already!" or more about the process? | 10:13 |
| zyga | jdub: what are you trying to do? | 10:13 |
| pitti | jdub: obvious as being understand by more people | 10:13 |
| jdub | zyga: understand the length of the string | 10:13 |
| jdub | pitti: perfect, thanks :-) | 10:13 |
| jordi | pitti: theey use it for "host" | 10:13 |
| pitti | jdub: "shut down" is a more technical term | 10:13 |
| jordi | msgid "A_dd host: " | 10:13 |
| jordi | msgstr "Rechner _hinzufgen: " | 10:13 |
| pitti | jordi: "to compute" really means "rechnen" | 10:14 |
| jordi | aha | 10:14 |
| zyga | jdub: ???? | 10:14 |
| zyga | jdub: understand strlen (or rather it's utf8 aware variant) | 10:14 |
| jdub | zyga: no, i wanted to know how long the words were | 10:15 |
| jdub | zyga: don't worry about it, i'm capable of asking questions myself :) | 10:15 |
| zyga | jdub: anyway grepping the .po files is a simple alternative | 10:15 |
| jordi | where is mvo when I need him | 10:15 |
| jdub | zyga: it's not, when i want help from a german speaker | 10:15 |
| jdub | pitti: so in process terms for a normal user, would it make sense to click "Computer ausschalten" and then be given a choice between "_Herunterfahren", restart, etc? | 10:16 |
| zyga | well you got something similar or identical to what's in the .po file, or am I missing something obvious | 10:16 |
| jdub | zyga: i want to talk to a german about my question. don't worry about it. | 10:16 |
| zyga | jdub: ah, okay :) | 10:16 |
| pitti | jdub: it does not actually make sense - "ausschalten" means power off | 10:17 |
| pitti | jdub: so it would rather make sense the other way round | 10:17 |
| sivang | hey pitti | 10:17 |
| pitti | jdub: first, ask for "shutdown" (herunterfahren) | 10:17 |
| pitti | jdub: then for "power off" (ausschalten), "restart" (neu starten), and so on | 10:17 |
| jdub | pitti: so in english, "turn off computer" -> shutdown/restart/suspend sort of works | 10:17 |
| sivang | jdub: joining the -de l10n team ? :) | 10:18 |
| pitti | jdub: from my POV it does not make sense in Englihs either | 10:18 |
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| pitti | jdub: "turn off" means "power off", doesn't it? | 10:18 |
| jdub | pitti: yeah, it's a bit wishy-washy ;) | 10:18 |
| jdub | yeah | 10:18 |
| pitti | jdub: so it should bue "shutdown" -> power off, restart, etc. | 10:18 |
| jdub | it's kind of like, "What kind of turning off would you like?" ;-) | 10:18 |
| pitti | jdub: same distinction in German for "Herunterfahren" vs. "Ausschalten" | 10:18 |
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| pitti | jdub: yes, it's hard to find a general term that comprises power off/hibernate/restart | 10:19 |
| jdub | pitti: i think the reason it mostly works in english is that 'shut down' has a specific technical meaning. it's still pretty bong though. | 10:19 |
| pitti | jdub: for gdm, "End session" could make sense | 10:19 |
| pitti | jdub: since it also offers you to log out the current user | 10:20 |
| jdub | ah, see, "log out" is a separate thing, so it's even more complicated ;) | 10:20 |
| jdub | windows xp quite sensibly splits these functions | 10:20 |
| pitti | but all four options terminate your session | 10:20 |
| jdub | log out -> quit / switch user | 10:20 |
| jdub | turn off -> shut down / reboot / suspend | 10:20 |
| pitti | well, as I said, for me "turn off" sounds more specific than shut down, but maybe it's just me | 10:21 |
| jdub | nah, there's awkwardness there | 10:22 |
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| zyga | pitti: how about, power down | 10:27 |
| pitti | same problem - we don't need synonyms, we need a more abstract term | 10:27 |
| ajmitch | morning | 10:27 |
| pitti | Hi ajmitch | 10:27 |
| zyga | pitti: what are you trying to accomplish with that? | 10:28 |
| zyga | pitti: deactivate? | 10:28 |
| zyga | pitti: computer, end program? | 10:28 |
| pitti | zyga: I don't try anything, jdub asked me for some translations, and we discussed which terms would fit best | 10:28 |
| sivang | pitti: what's up? | 10:28 |
| pitti | zyga: it's just odd that after I ask my computer to "turn off", I get asked whether to restart it | 10:29 |
| pitti | Hi sivang | 10:29 |
| pitti | zyga: turn off is turn off, not restart | 10:29 |
| zyga | pitti: ah..... | 10:29 |
| zyga | pitti: I understand now | 10:29 |
| zyga | pitti: I've got a great translation here | 10:29 |
| zyga | pitti: it says 'end work' | 10:30 |
| zyga | pitti: :D | 10:30 |
| pitti | ... and start playing :) | 10:30 |
| zyga | pitti: end session | 10:30 |
| pitti | "A train station is a place where the train stops. But what the heck is a workstation?" | 10:30 |
| pitti | zyga: hah, I proposed "end session", too | 10:30 |
| jdub | 'session' means nothing to the user, though | 10:30 |
| zyga | pitti: ask questions about what to do next ;-) | 10:31 |
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| zyga | pitti, jdub: how about 'leave system' | 10:31 |
| jdub | 'system' doesn't mean anything | 10:31 |
| zyga | jdub: exactly | 10:31 |
| jdub | 'leave' means walk away | 10:31 |
| pitti | "go play with your children" | 10:32 |
| zyga | pitti: fine it could mean that | 10:32 |
| zyga | pitti: how about: "Logout and..." (submenu) "...restart", "...hibernate", "power down", "show login screen" | 10:33 |
| zyga | that could be good | 10:33 |
| pitti | zyga: I like that | 10:33 |
| zyga | the dimmed screen could just show 'are you sure you want to $BLAH' | 10:33 |
| zyga | and a yes / no button | 10:33 |
| === zyga is glad to help | ||
| zyga | jdub: how about you? | 10:37 |
| jdub | no, they're separate issues | 10:38 |
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| lifeless | mjg59: any luck with dell ? | 11:10 |
| mjg59 | lifeless: Need to chase them this week | 11:11 |
| mjg59 | I've confirmed it in the Windows installer, plus in Windows safe mode | 11:11 |
| sivang | mdz: is there any sense in specing stuff before the actual discussion, or a spec entry in launchpad suffices? (then it would be later discussed and then spec'd ?) | 11:11 |
| mdz | sivang: it is reasonable to sketch an outline for the BOF discussion | 11:11 |
| mdz | agenda items etc. | 11:12 |
| sivang | mdz: ok, thanks. | 11:12 |
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| mdz | not to actually write the spec of course; that should be done after the discussion | 11:12 |
| mdz | unless it's not on the list for ubz | 11:13 |
| mdz | ...and that list hasn't been made yet ;-) | 11:13 |
| sivang | mdz: so that means that proof of concept code / programs are also irrelevant ? (I think I've seen in the past specs that already included some demo app code ,etc) | 11:16 |
| mdz | sivang: anything relevant to the discussion, yes. just add a comments section at the bottom | 11:17 |
| sivang | mdz: ok | 11:17 |
| jdub | BenC: ROCK! | 11:21 |
| === infinity is reminded that he needs to get a spec up. | ||
| infinity | mdz : When are the scheduling decisions being made? | 11:24 |
| mdz | infinity: at the last minute, as usual | 11:24 |
| infinity | Grantde, my spec probably doesn't need TOO much discussion, aside from assigning some tasks, and general buy-in that it's a good idea. | 11:24 |
| infinity | mdz : \o/ | 11:24 |
| mdz | what is it? | 11:25 |
| === sivang is curious as well :) | ||
| infinity | ReducingDuplicationInMain (not on the wiki yet, but that's what it'll be called) | 11:25 |
| infinity | I've already been implementing it in sid, since dapper's not open yet. :) | 11:26 |
| infinity | Killing off old versions of libdb, libmysqlclient, etc. | 11:26 |
| infinity | I really want to do a rapid audit of main for private copies of libraries and kick them the heck out. | 11:26 |
| infinity | That sort of thing. | 11:26 |
| infinity | We're queueing up for a security support nightmare as it is, IMO. | 11:26 |
| jdub | http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/45917/index.html | 11:27 |
| mdz | go ahead and put it in the spec tracker | 11:27 |
| jdub | ^ blah blah firefox memory leak, firefox slow | 11:27 |
| mdz | jdub: people who follow those howtos are going to have such an interesting time upgrading their systems later | 11:28 |
| jdub | infinity: we going to switch to mysql 4.1 by default and things like that? | 11:28 |
| jdub | mdz: yeah :( | 11:28 |
| mdz | dpkg-divert should require --yes-its-my-own-fault if run from outside a maintainer script | 11:28 |
| infinity | jdub : yes, mysql 4.1 will be the default about 5 minutes after dapper opens, with a mass-rebuild of all mysql-using apps to gfollow. | 11:28 |
| jdub | infinity: ah, rock | 11:29 |
| infinity | jdub : I already did a license audit to make sure I can punt the LGPL libmysqlclient10 completely (and I can stop maintaining it upstream, YAY!) | 11:29 |
| jdub | infinity: php5? | 11:29 |
| infinity | What about php5? It's in breezy. | 11:29 |
| === GmanAFK is now known as Gman | ||
| jdub | oh yeah, we already did that switch | 11:30 |
| crimsun | jdub: perhaps I should enqueue a preemptive FAQ for that one and link to it in #ubuntu when Dapper opens | 11:30 |
| jdub | crimsun: "how do i unbreak my firefox"? | 11:30 |
| crimsun | jdub: something along those lines | 11:30 |
| infinity | MySQL 4.1 is high on the hit list, though. Especially since we ran out of debugging time and ended up shipping breezy with a MySQL 4.0 that is B-R-O-K-E-N on PowerPC (fine on the other two arches, though) | 11:30 |
| jdub | d'oh | 11:31 |
| infinity | Kamion wasted a few hours on it, I wasted nearly a day, and Mithrandir blew another day or two, and we finally gave up in the end, pointing fingers alternately at MySQL upstream and the toolchain. | 11:32 |
| Robi- | mdz: it's done | 11:33 |
| infinity | At any rate, dapper should be a very solid server release, from where I'm sitting and surveying the lay of the land, so I'll be quite happy supporting it for 5 years. Just needs a bit of tweak and polish to make me happy with it. | 11:34 |
| infinity | And a pretty massive code drop in the first week of development. | 11:34 |
| Robi- | mdz: where can I put it for you guys? | 11:35 |
| Kinnison | hihi | 11:35 |
| jdub | infinity: heh | 11:35 |
| mdz | Robi-: wherever you want; just announce it to ubuntu-devel or something | 11:35 |
| mdz | Robi-: once the CD image is ready, people can get it and swap it in if they want it | 11:35 |
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| Robi- | mdz, i'd have to upload it somewhere... | 11:44 |
| Robi- | mdz, so you guys can use it if needed.. even Kamion | 11:44 |
| mdz | Robi-: that's fine, upload it somewhere | 11:45 |
| Robi- | mdz, where? ;] | 11:45 |
| mdz | it doesn't matter as long as it's there | 11:45 |
| Robi- | mdz, you wanna grab it then? | 11:45 |
| mdz | no, I do not have time to deal with it | 11:45 |
| mdz | managing a couple of crises right now | 11:46 |
| Robi- | ok, here it is.. VMware base install of Breezy.. => http://robi.poptix.net/Ubuntu Breezy - base install VMware VM.rar | 11:54 |
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