[12:02] \sh: I am also getting Dirk Gently's "Long, Dark tea hour of the sould" together with "Salmons of Doubt" [12:02] s/sould/soul/ [12:03] <\sh> sivang: i have the 4 parts of the guide in german+english..the dirk gently books (only in german :() [12:03] \sh: :-) [12:04] \sh: I've never heared a dirk gently's yet [12:04] \sh: s/heared/read/ [12:04] \sh: the hour does it's work on me :) [12:05] <\sh> sivang: actually dirk gently more fun to read...when u read that odin is laying in a bed of an asylum.and that all the time an eagle is hunting down dirk gently... [12:06] <\sh> sivang: totally weired...but funny... [12:07] \sh: so it sounds :) I'm really looking forward to getting it === kbrooks [n=kbrooks@unaffiliated/kbrooks] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:10] <\sh> I think i change now to bed..and starting up the other laptop [12:10] so. hi [12:11] \sh: wow, you're continuing from bed with the laptop? when do you sleep? [12:11] hey kbrooks [12:11] <\sh> sivang: i just slept 15h since yesterday [12:12] \sh: wow, had lots of work with the transitions over work? [12:13] <\sh> sivang: the planning is quite a lot of work..but the last days I was even during night at work...and today as well... [12:13] <\sh> sivang: i'm just happy that my holiday starts on thursday...and on saturday I'm sitting in the plane to ubz.. [12:14] \sh: same here :) [12:14] ubz? ubuntu below zero? [12:14] <\sh> yepp [12:14] \sh: when we started rolling the project at work, we worked almost 13-16 hours a day, it was a pain [12:14] <\sh> sivang: i [12:15] <\sh> sivang: i'm preparing some new packages for pykde in the meantime and play with bzr [12:15] \sh: cool, I should start playing with it as well [12:15] \sh: is it much different in its interface then baz? [12:16] (I've heared it has memory and speed improvements) === el_toro [n=jonah@67-40-166-176.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:16] <\sh> sivang: to be honest...i think i only played with tla once...for a short time...and i'm new to this baz/bzr/tla stuff ... i'll need a short, intensive jblack sprint at ubz for those tools :) [12:17] <\sh> sivang: to have an overview (also regarding the LP stuff) [12:17] \sh: when you do, pull me in ok? I'd need that as well. I've only used baz for mostly RO operations, so it'd be nice to have this session with him :) === Jimb0b [n=jcape@c-24-14-116-227.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:19] <\sh> sivang: i think a beer coaster will do as whiteboard replacement ;) [12:19] \sh: hahah [12:19] \sh: too bad I don't really drink, with all this talking about beer etc :) [12:23] <\sh> sivang: well...there is no need to drink alcohol at all :) but a beer coaster is a must to write some phonenumbers or use it for brainstorming sessions while u r sitting in a pub ,) [12:27] \sh: this is the piece of wood/paper you put the beer glass on ? [12:28] <\sh> sivang: yepp paper :) [12:29] \sh: ah so now I know what you meant by "coaster" [12:29] \sh: :) [12:30] \sh: can you conduct an intense packaging session for me over ubz? (guessing you're to packaging, like jblack is to bzr) :-) [12:30] \sh: rather, a sprint [12:32] <\sh> sivang: i think thats possible [12:32] <\sh> ok..will change my place from desk to bed ,) [12:33] \sh: sure, btw I'll appriciate it :) [12:34] \sh: maybe we can come up with imroving your package-source-from-scratch wiki page [12:35] <\sh> sivang: oh..sure..yes...remove the whole wiki page and rewrite now after having more experience *eg* [12:35] \sh: :) [12:35] <\sh> sivang: thats my plan... [12:36] <\sh> k...switching location === kyncani2 [n=kyncani@lns-bzn-40-82-251-166-220.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j^ [n=j@user-12lcacq.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stone [n=stone@c-24-14-85-48.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:14] nite all [01:15] nite === bskahan [n=bskahan@dsl254-074-249.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lllmanulll [n=lllmanul@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marcin [n=user@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-6.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:49] jdub: you don't want to know what it means in portugese [01:50] wait [01:50] no [01:50] really, i do [01:58] Riddell/jdub: I'm setting up hostname cloaks on freenode. Do you want one? [02:00] you're the group contact? [02:00] Seveas: I already have a KDE one [02:00] crimsun, yes [02:00] Riddell, you can choose (and maybe even combine) === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-6.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Firetech [n=Jocke@h53n1fls301o1100.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:01] Seveas: i am ok, thanks === lx_ [n=lx@p548B1940.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [i=stub@sweep.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:36] afternoon [02:37] hi ajmitch [02:48] Heya ajmitch, crimsun [02:48] hey bddebian === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfvt_ [n=sfeehan@pool-64-222-103-115.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo_ [n=slomo@p5487DA3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === booyah [n=chatzill@cpe-65-189-106-253.insight.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stone [n=stone@c-24-14-85-48.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@205.134.224.215] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === freeflying [n=rockie@61.190.65.6] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [i=travis@unaffiliated/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong [n=jdong@d149-67-171-99.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mxpxpod [n=bryan@12-207-1-46.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.6] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jody_lap [n=jody@CPE0000e8e169cd-CM001225d8901c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:47] The version of gnumeric in breezy is broken. Unfortunately the 1.6.0 version missed inclusion by a few days, and 1.5.90 has a crasher that's hitting alot of users. Is it possible to get an update with 1.6.0 pushed ? === _maydayjay_ [n=maydayja@ip101109.101.nas.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfvt_ [n=sfeehan@pool-64-222-103-115.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dmbJYya [n=8y6ORfl@70.89.208.241] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rafl [n=rafl@p54B49290.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:15] Hi guys,. I want to utilize pxe boot or etherboot for a wireless card ( DWL-G510 Wireless Adapter) I am not sure how to go about doing this [05:21] <_maydayjay_> pupil - PXE only working on wired from the looks of all the info in the wiki....probably should ask this on #ubuntu [05:22] _maydayjay_, I was hoping to add madwifi to the sources somehow to add my card to the probe . [05:23] _maydayjay_, well not all of madwifi,. but support for my wireless card.. I'm not sure how I'm gonna do it,. cause I need this to boot from hardrive,. so I have enough space. === Lathiat wonders if its actually psosible to netboot from wireless [05:25] Lathiat, there would certainly be more configuration, as far as the card goes... [05:25] pupil: i have my doubts as to whether its supported [05:25] pupil: good luck i gues, [05:25] Lathiat, I don't think its supported,. but I think I can hack it out [05:26] Lathiat, my card is supported,. all I need to be able to do is be able to detect and configure it to detect dhcp === NSK [n=nsk@unaffiliated/nsk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:27] Lathiat, there are wireless cards that support wake on lan [05:28] I'm a little over my head though,. would love some help [05:28] pupil: WoL is totally separate to netbooting [05:28] Lathiat, right. [05:28] heh [05:29] Lathiat, do you think its possible to netboot from wireless adapter? === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:29] pupil: no actual idea [05:29] hmm [05:30] pupil: try the pxe mailing lists/irc channels or whatever === ozamosi- [n=nnnnnnnn@h56n3c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-13-135.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === [Chameleon] [n=Paul@000f660c9c52.click-network.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === socomm [n=socomm@adsl-68-126-115-140.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:43] <_maydayjay_> pupil - if wireless is essential you could use a wireless to ethernet bridge device to get around this. [05:44] _maydayjay_, what do you mean? [05:45] _maydayjay_, I don't see how it would solve problem,. because when coputer starts,. ith as to detect wireless card,. first issue.,. then it has to look for dhcp === socomm [n=socomm@adsl-68-126-115-140.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === rrezende [n=rafa@200191172024-dial-user-ECP.acessonet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi- is now known as ozamosi [05:50] <_maydayjay_> pupil - wireless to ethernet bridge is a box that acts as a wireless client and converts the link to a wired ethernet jack - connect that to an ethernet(wired) interface on the computer you are trying to do PXE with. [05:51] _maydayjay_, ic,. I found an intersting site .. but I'm unclear as to whether he is booting from wiresless adapter,. [05:51] _maydayjay_, http://nlug.org/mail/nlug__2001_04/0338.html [05:51] _maydayjay_, i have not seen a bios based pxe client that knows about any wifi chip [05:52] jayakumar2, maybe its time to make one [05:52] jayakumar2, its not like wireless home network is uncomon [05:53] pupil: good luck with that [05:53] lol [05:53] pupil: I can see it _maybe_ being possible for intel to do it with their wireless laptop setup [05:53] otherwise you'd need a new bios everytime you got a new card [05:53] i don't think i've even seen pxe support for usb eth === moyogo [n=moyogo@5pc104.ucu-vb.uu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:54] <_maydayjay_> pupil - LTSP has a wireless package. You are more than likely going to need to create a bootable CD. [05:54] <_maydayjay_> brb [05:54] Amaranth, all I'm saying is to start you'd have to be able to compile the driver into whatever pxe your using,. and then have a script to set it up [05:54] Amaranth, i believe most eth chips have a prom that implements the x86 pxe interface (set of inb/outb calls) [05:55] so i would assume if a wifi chip implemented the same interface [05:55] _maydayjay_, what do you mean wireless package,.? you mean boot from wireless card? [05:55] jayakumar2: then couldn't we use that to write a generic driver for all cards? [05:55] Amaranth, yes, that's correct. pxe clients all use that same generic interface [05:55] _maydayjay_, yeah,. bootable cd is right [05:56] that's why pxe can fit in a 256kbit flash for bios [05:56] what does regular network access need that isn't available with the pxe api? [05:57] could this be the begginings of a new project [05:57] i don't know. i'd have to check the pxe spec. it should all be in there except it'd be slow since it'd be IO based [05:57] sure, but it'd be better than nothing for cards without real drivers [05:58] agreed [06:01] <_maydayjay_> pupil - here is the announcement about the LTSP wireless support http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=686348&forum_id=2543 [06:02] _maydayjay_, thank you === seth_k [n=seth@asmallorange.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:05] hi you all ,how to recover my gpg key from keyserver [06:05] rockie: If you've lost the private key there is no way to get it back. [06:05] rockie: The private key never goes to the keyserver. [06:06] _maydayjay_, take a look http://www.route1.com/ [06:06] _maydayjay_, I went there for an interview... [06:07] my home direction was deleted === [Chameleon] [n=Paul@000f660c9c52.click-network.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:07] It's mean that I shall re-upload my key again? [06:08] rockie: Unless you made a backup of your key it is lost forever and anything you used it with can't be used anymore until the new key is registered [06:08] rockie: so if you had your key signed by anyone or used it for logins you need to do all of that over again [06:09] rockie: but you can just make a new key and register it with a keyserver again, sure [06:09] IT CAN BE DONE [06:09] http://www.freebsddiary.org/wireless-install.php [06:09] Read em and weep [06:10] thanks [06:12] you guys reading that? === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:13] <_maydayjay_> pupil - good find - if it can be done on FreeBSD then it's doable on linux... Or you could just use the freebsd solution if all you want is a thin client. [06:13] _maydayjay_, true,. but,. I'm on ubuntu,. maybe a port is possible,. [06:15] all that appears to show is booting off a floppy, not pxe [06:15] ajmitch, its a start [06:16] I'm thinkin boot cd [06:17] like the live cd which does wireless now? [06:18] ajmitch, well,. i want to do ltsp via wireless [06:18] <_maydayjay_> pupil - check http://thinstation.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/ThIndex [06:20] _maydayjay_, yeah,. I see it === pusakat [i=proxy@203.167.88.65] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:22] brb === pusakat [i=proxy@203.167.88.65] has joined #ubuntu-devel === uniq_ [n=frode@213.184.199.55] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:35] _maydayjay_, the guy release a wireless version,. wow,. === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.6] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:41] <_maydayjay_> pupil - #ltsp has a wireless discussion happening ... channel is slow though... [06:42] I'm on ltsp [06:44] _maydayjay_, that page you gave me is helpful,.. extremely helpful [06:44] gonna see how it works [06:45] <_maydayjay_> Cool let me know how it works out... I have a situation where it might be useful if performance is acceptable. [06:46] _maydayjay_, I'll tell yah,. if it works out on my P133 64mb edo ram,. I think you'll be ok,. I already have thin client working well on etherboot,. time to see how it does on wireless [06:46] it depends how many clients you want to have... [06:46] and whether its 11b or 11g [06:47] overall i dont think itd be crash hot tho [06:48] the guy that created ltsp is coming to my city,. Toronto, Canda, for tomorrow and Monday [06:48] He's giving a lecture on it [06:49] at a college [06:49] <_maydayjay_> pupil - I'm in Burlinton, Ont...not to far from TO. Where is the lecture? [06:49] Seneca college [06:49] <_maydayjay_> Free admission? [06:49] I'm not sure, He did not indicate that it cost anything [06:50] I will check seneca's site [06:50] <_maydayjay_> Thx... === [Chameleon] [n=Paul@000f660c9c52.click-network.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:53] http://cs.senecac.on.ca/soss/2005/speakers.php [06:54] _maydayjay_, wow,. this dude spent like 5 dedicated hours with me on each day,.. 3 days in a row,. [06:54] so 15 hours [06:54] or close to that [06:57] <_maydayjay_> Looks like a great conference...I'll see if I can get the time off work to attend some of it. Thanks for the info! [06:58] _maydayjay_, no probs [06:58] Seneca is stepping up it seems [07:00] <_maydayjay_> Sure does...glad to see opensource getting the attention it deserves in the Canadian Education system! [07:00] <_maydayjay_> brb === Mez [n=Mez@193.113.235.183] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.6] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:40] goodnight all === Mez_ [n=Mez@mobileweb08.london.02.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rrezende [n=rafa@200191172024-dial-user-ECP.acessonet.com.br] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === maskie [n=maskie@c1-89-13.wblv.isadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@info1-35.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:56] hi all [08:00] morning jsgotangco [08:01] hi jsgotangco, Treenaks [08:01] *yaawn* [08:02] 8:00 and already up for 3 hours [08:03] Treenaks: welcome to the club :) [08:04] fabbione: dude, it's Sunday [08:04] and I've been hacking python-gst stuff [08:05] heh [08:05] Treenaks: i am trying to get 2.6.14 to build... [08:06] fabbione: is it so broken? [08:08] <[Chameleon] > Treenaks: bummer... jahshaka requires QT3 [08:08] Treenaks: not at all.. [08:08] Treenaks: just cleaning up bits [08:09] so when dapper opens we'll have LOADS of new crack :) [08:09] seb had a new rhythmbox ready as well [08:09] <[Chameleon] > mmm crack [08:09] that would be fun indeed === [Chameleon] is really enjoying the composite crack [08:10] ooh, yes, that too [08:10] <[Chameleon] > I got it setup to fade in/out windows [08:10] <[Chameleon] > freaking awesome [08:10] [Chameleon] : fading windows? that sounds MovieOS, talk to ogra ;) [08:10] <[Chameleon] > Treenaks: yeah [08:10] <[Chameleon] > Treenaks: across dual monitors [08:10] <[Chameleon] > it's so sexy [08:11] <[Chameleon] > all my menus fade in/out when I access them, too [08:11] <[Chameleon] > even the tool tips fade [08:13] fabbione: excellent, that means we can kill lots of the alsa dpatches :-) [08:13] crimsun: they are all gone already [08:13] fabbione: righto [08:14] Is there/has there been any work on unifying/fixing the WiFi drivers? [08:14] As mentioned in some post I read linked from planet gnome (re: networkmanager) [08:16] brb === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko__ [n=doko@dslb-084-059-076-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pupil [n=pupil@CPE000d883f2082-CM00407b878b33.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@p5089F652.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tritium [n=michael@pcp0011975002pcs.sandia01.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nnonix [n=nnonix@t42.bkjohnson.com] has joined #Ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=hunger@p54A62779.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sedak [n=fred@home.nenya.info] has joined #ubuntu-devel === schweeb [n=chris@209.120.232.21] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [i=stub@sweep.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:53] I'm thinking of filing a big report for network-manager (which would be my first bug report) and wondered if someone (familiar with network-manager) here might want to check my logic before I do so? I've had no real feedback from ppl in #Ubuntu. [09:53] er, that's BUG report ... === LaschW [n=LaschW@dyndsl-085-016-012-071.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:12] Does bug 17302 mean that fglrx isn't working at all for breezy? [10:15] it works..ish [10:15] and I have a PCIE X700 [10:16] Here all my ATI 9100 (r200) cards freeze the system since there is a new fglrx module. And it is reproducable for a lot of other ATI Cards [10:18] This is very poor due to the fact that fglrx worked fine with the older fglrx modules. [10:19] doesn't X come with Free accelerated drivers for 9100s, anyway? [10:20] bob2: :-/ accelerated? I would call it slowerated, 3D accelleration is more than poor [10:20] ok then! [10:22] I can't get even one ATI AGP card working with fglrx. (9100 to 9800) [10:22] bob2: And a propper 3d accelleration is a must for CAD/CAM [10:23] And up to now I can't finde even one who get an ATI AGP card working with fglrx [10:26] So breezy had working fglrx modules in the past, will ubuuntu a) remove the nonworking fglrx or b) bring back the working fglrx modules === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:31] In the moment this fglrx problem is a nogo criteria for an OEM to use breezy [10:32] LaschW: fglrx is not supported, and ATi breaks it every once in a while.. [10:32] LaschW: complain there [10:34] Treenaks: No I dwon't. Thare was a working fglrx in breezy in the past and it's Ubuntu to bring this back. Or, as I said, we (an OEM) will drop Ubuntu [10:35] Treenaks: And I will bet most other OEM's will do so... [10:36] Treenaks: s/dwon't. Thare/won't. There/ === sivang --> attached [10:36] Morning all [10:37] LaschW: That one was broken in lots of other interesting ways for other people [10:38] LaschW: The problem with the fglrx driver is that it's closed-source (for the most part) and written by ATi, not by us. We do test, and you had the opportunity to test during the release cycle [10:38] Treenaks: I won't say so. It was working for most all ATI cards in the past. Up to now it is only working for a few PCIE cards. [10:38] LaschW: Well, explain your problem better in the bug then [10:38] LaschW: it might get fixed [10:38] Treenaks: I'm not talking about closed source. I'm talking about bringing back the working fglrx modules! [10:39] LaschW: Those were broken for (for example) me [10:39] Treenaks: There is a bug 17302 [10:39] LaschW: Add a comment to it that you're experiencing it too, and why you feel the severity should be higher than it currently is [10:39] Treenaks: And I don't think you have tested it on such a variet5y of cards than we have... [10:40] come on folks [10:40] whinging on irc does not fix anything [10:40] LaschW: I haven't, the laptop team has. [10:40] the bug is filed, people will look at it === Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-100-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:42] bob2: I'm not whinging. I just lay my finger in an open wound. Which as I've said is a nogoi criteria for at least one OEM. Only a small one (turnover 230M EUR in 2004) [10:45] If hwdb.ubuntu.com would be online you might have received a lot of complains. [10:46] hwdb.ubuntu.com is in 'maintainance mode' since weeks [10:49] LaschW : The current fglrx drivers are the very first version ever that have worked on my hardware. [10:50] LaschW : That said, dapper will open with a shiny new fglrx version that is expected to work much better for everyone. No, breezy won't get them. [10:50] infinity: PCIE cards I would think? [10:52] infinity: From an OEM's point of view it would be very helpfull if something like hwdb.ubuntu.com would be online to verify which cards are working and which not. [10:52] infinity: Also from a users point of view [10:52] LaschW: Ubuntu is not only about OEMs [10:52] ogra: what's up with the hwdb site? [10:53] bob2: Its in maintainance mode, since breezy release [10:54] LaschW : I'm fairly sure bob2 can read, however he's asking the man responsible for it. [10:54] Treenaks: So Ubuntu is not interested in OEM's shiping pre installed systems? Good to know, thanks a lot... [10:55] LaschW: stop it, no one is saying that [10:55] LaschW : Anyhow, the above comment was correct, it's a closed driver and I can't do much of anything about it. I'm sorry that it seems to be broken for SOME people, but it seems to work quite well for many others, and I can't find a magical version that works for everyone, cause there isn't one. [10:55] Treenaks: Pardon me for beeing sarcastic... [10:55] LaschW: going from 'not only OEMs' to 'ubuntu doesn't care' is a big jump ;P [10:56] LaschW : Note that we expect most OEMs would be shipping with the "ati" and "nv" drivers, not "fglrx" and "nvidia". === lbm [n=lbm@x1-6-00-13-10-7a-d1-e4.k233.webspeed.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:56] LaschW : The free drivers, though lacking in the acceleration department, DO work. [10:57] LaschW : The non-free drivers work for some people, sometimes, but never for everyone. [10:57] ajmitch: Apologize, see it as a sarcastic comment [10:58] I would think that an OEM would be able to select & use the driver they wanted to? [10:58] infinity: Shure, but tell that a customer... [11:00] ajmitch: We are able to do so, but our customers don't. And for us it's a must that also a customer is able to install the needed packages. We did so for RH and SUSE. And so there are only this distributions wich stay as candidates for a shipping of pree installed systems. [11:01] I could trivially prepare some updated packages for testing, which you could distribute, but they'd get ZERO support from us (as we're not putting a newer fglrx into the breezy repository) [11:03] infinity: What about the idea to have a repository where a customer may find a set of different module versions? (just an idea comming in my mind) [11:03] you're welcome to create such a repository [11:03] Indeed. [11:03] hmm === zyga just recalled that fglrx for amd64 is broken [11:04] infinity: E.G a repository where one can get the old breezy and fglrx modules? [11:04] As a rule, we'd expect OEMs to show a bit of initiative with driver issues like this. [11:04] Microsoft doesn't press new Windows CDs for you with new driver support on them. [11:04] Microsoft and driver 'support'.... [11:04] looks funny in one sentence [11:05] bob2: :-)) If I only had access on a repository where all the old packages lay around. There is no archive I've found up to now... [11:05] especially as new hardware comes out that isn't supported by the current stable distribution [11:05] LaschW: what about the morgue? [11:05] zyga: morgue? tell me more [11:06] LaschW: http://morgue.ubuntu.com/ [11:06] if that is what you are looking for [11:06] That's not really going to work for you anyway. [11:06] oh, it's quite emtpy [11:06] are you really willing to tell your customers "oh, it doesn't work? try installing each of the ten drivers on blah.com and see which works" [11:06] If you try to set your users up to use older packages, they'll just get upgraded the first time they do an online update. === Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487DA3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:07] LaschW: are you having issues with fglrx? [11:09] bob2: No. Our sitiuation is a bit more complex. We are a b2b manufacturer for what we call "After Work resellers", very small computer shops. And this customers need working systems, and 3D accelleration is a big momentum for this people [11:09] zyga: Yepp [11:10] LaschW: did you try the latest version straight from ati? [11:10] zyga: *grrmmbl* Yes I did. Never seen such a crap before... === womble [n=mpalmer@eth359.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:11] LaschW: (next time buy nvidia) [11:11] LaschW: anyway you are cooked, as someone has already said - previous versions were buggy too [11:11] zyga: Ever tried the ATI installer? Try distribution customized install. And you will see an error about not able to find /lib/linux386/lib$FOO === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:12] zyga: Seems ATI guys never even startet their own installer. As I said crap.. [11:12] LaschW: I never tried the ati installer, I did try to use some prepackaged drivers in my fedora 1 days but that was long time ago [11:12] mvo: morning [11:13] hi mvo === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-181.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:14] WaterSevenUb: hi :-) [11:14] zyga: Right, RH fedora and SUSE packages are working. At least yesterday... So thats what makes me go up the trees... [11:14] zyga, hi there:) goodmorning. [11:15] zyga: I tried to offer ATI a helping hand making their installer work. But thei wanted me to pay for to do their job.... [11:15] LaschW: are they based (Suse/rh/fedora) on the latest version? [11:16] zyga: Yepp, as far as I saw [11:17] LaschW: then there is something magical about them - you've said that the lastest drivers from ati are not working === zyga needs to go to work [11:17] LaschW: good luck with solving your issues [11:17] the new ATI installer is not bad, on the first look. It offers to build deb packages. But isn't able due to do so due to wrong path definitions. [11:18] morning mvo, zyga, ajmitch, infinity, Seveas [11:18] hey zyga, ajmitch === kyncani2 [n=kyncani@82.253.217.81] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:19] zyga: At least the last fglrx drivers dont work for 8500 to 9800 agp on boards with Via, nvidia and intel chipset [11:22] oi sivang [11:22] sivang: morning :-) === zyga needs an IRC client that displays message like 'you've been starring at this window for the last 5 minutes, get back to work!' [11:25] interesting note from someone we know about spec ,) http://kerneltrap.org/node/5725 [11:28] s/spec/specs/ === LaschW [n=LaschW@dyndsl-085-016-012-071.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [11:29] sivang: ah, so last week === kyncani3 [n=kyncani@lns-bzn-40-82-251-179-212.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MasterC [n=chans@dslb-084-060-229-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:53] <\sh> moins [11:54] oi [11:54] hey \sh [11:55] <\sh> oh well...i need a life...sleeping next to my laptop is not the meaning of a working relationship... [11:57] \sh: next time sleep next to your laptop *and* your girlfriend [11:57] <\sh> i mean, ok the laptop is warm and doesn't snorr, but I prefere a more softer version of someone in my bed [11:57] \sh: hehe, Moins! [11:59] \sh: at least you slept well? [11:59] <\sh> zyga: hmmm..question: if you would be a girlfriend and you see, that your boyfriend has a laptop in his bed...would you sleep next to him? ;) [11:59] err [11:59] \sh: mine does [11:59] \sh: she's got a laopto too BTW ;-) [11:59] (sometimes she preres my psp and just dumps the laptop) [12:00] <\sh> zyga: damn...I knew I made something wrong in my life ,-) === thoreauputic [n=prospero@wolax9-135.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:00] \sh: you should have bought you gf a psp :-) === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.6] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:01] <\sh> zyga: well....I tried, but sony didn't release the psp just in time...so now I could buy a psp, but I don't know a place for buying a gf *eg* [12:02] <\sh> sivang: somehow yes...right now I'm prepared for long ubz sessions :) [12:02] \sh: well, if I were you I'd buy the psp anyway, gf will come along one day === zyga needs to downgrade psp again [12:03] <\sh> zyga: serious...I'm not in this gamers business...the last time I bought a portable gaming device was for my son...and I was too stupid to play with it... [12:04] \sh: how old are you if I may ask? === [Chameleon] [n=Paul@000f660c9c52.click-network.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:05] <\sh> zyga: in january 35 [12:05] mvo, I received an email from a user concerned with Synaptic translations in debian unstable to portuguese... did you talk to him? [12:05] <\sh> zyga: an old fart [12:05] \sh: ever since I bought my first game console I dumped pc gaming, I'm 23 now and after 5 consoles I'm pretty much addicted [12:05] \sh: nah [12:05] mvo, I think he was using pt_BR instead of pt_PT. [12:05] \sh: you're very old school ;-) [12:05] mvo, unless there is some problem in debian unstable. [12:06] \sh: anyway - gameplay is the only way I rest mentally (apart from sleep) really [12:06] WaterSevenUb: no, I haven't === zyga is amazed by httpd for psp :-) [12:07] <\sh> zyga: I played some xbox games the last time I was visiting ogra...but I'm having trouble to control those big xbox-controls [12:07] \sh: what did you prepare? [12:07] \sh: I have a gamecube and psp currently, both are a marvel [12:07] \sh: so does most humans. :) [12:08] \sh: those controllers are huge === sivang ditched gaming in favor of programming around the age of 10 [12:08] \sh: try a gamecube with your son at a retail store, there are great multiplayer games too [12:08] http://ps2vsxbox.istheshit.net/ [12:08] \sh: (for kids that is) [12:08] is the classic illustration of that. :) [12:08] <[Chameleon] > \sh: there are smaller xbox controllers available [12:08] sivang: what!? === zyga ditched gaminig in favour of learing how to write games in 6th grade [12:09] <\sh> sivang: nothing special..but now I slept so long, that I don't need to sleep again ;) === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:11] <\sh> zyga: he tried..that's why I bought him 2 or 3 years ago a PS2 [12:12] <\sh> zyga: and the only game he wanted to play was "Quidditch" and "Fifa Soccer"... [12:12] <\sh> games even [12:12] heh quidditch [12:12] \sh: argh === zyga plans to show his son adom/nethack as soon as he gets one [12:12] (son that is) [12:13] anyone who can appreciate adom is a worthy gamer :-) === herzi [n=herzi@c208251.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:13] <\sh> zyga: adom? this rogue like adv game which is not OSS? [12:13] \sh: the very same [12:14] \sh: while it'd be nice for the source to be FOSS it's a good thing it's not IMHO [12:15] (but that's really offtopic unless we have #ubuntu-fun or #ubuntu-lazy-devel [12:15] <\sh> zyga: right [12:16] zyga, -offtopic [12:16] actually exists [12:17] :D === nomed [n=debaser@host246-197.pool8254.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:17] hi all [12:18] what the diff. between xterminal and xfce4-termianl? [12:19] <[Chameleon] > nomed: try asking in #ubuntu. This is not a support channel. [12:20] [Chameleon] , i asked here just because i think it's a "bug" [12:20] take a look on those pkges [12:20] cu [12:20] <[Chameleon] > nomed: what about them do you think is a bug? [12:21] nomed: apt-get source xterm && apt-get source xfce4-terminal && diff -Naur xterm-203 xfce4-terminal-0.2.4 | less [12:21] <[Chameleon] > zyga: hehe [12:21] mvo, have you uploaded translations upstream? [12:21] zyga, xterminal not xterm [12:22] nomed: ah, sorry [12:22] the only diff seems the Maint [12:22] and the name [12:22] WaterSevenUb: synaptic translations? [12:22] nomed: the diff is around 1000 lines [12:23] mvo, yeah [12:23] <\sh> nomed: Conflicts: terminal, xterminal [12:23] <\sh> nomed: in xfce4-terminal that is... === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:24] \sh ok [12:24] <\sh> nomed: please ask the xfce4 devs ( janimo e.g.) [12:24] mornin' all === koke [n=koke@adsl229-164.unizar.es] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:24] WaterSevenUb: I commit everything I get to the synaptic svn [12:24] infinity, fwiw, i think it's a waste that everyone (users,distro folk, oems, devels) expend so much effort on trying to get 3d gfx support working. all that frustration. rev eng specs. 8k/4k problems. etc [12:25] <\sh> ok..laters...need some coffee and something to eat [12:25] mvo, ok... great. [12:26] mvo: what changes do you plan to implement in update-manager, if any? [12:28] zyga: I'm undecided about that, probably some gui cleanups in the software-preferences dialog. the rest will depend on UBZ [12:28] mvo: I've got three questions for you [12:28] mvo: would you concider moving from cvs to something else? [12:29] jayakumar2 : I agree, tell ATI. Telling me it's a waste of time doesn't do much good. [12:29] mvo: would you concider adding a apps vs packages tabs to the upgrade list (so that users know about applications that matter the most and about other stuff they might not understand) [12:29] mvo: if so would you accept a third tab, translations [12:30] mvo: (OTOH: it would be good to add reddish background on updates from security.*) [12:30] mvo: we can take this to priv if you like [12:31] zyga: can we possibly talk about this after ubz? then I have a better idea about what time I can allocate for what task? [12:31] mvo: okay [12:31] mvo: I could implement the tab part [12:32] in general I like the idea about e.g. having something "redish" for secuirty and telling the user that libxy is "System" and "libopenoffice" belongs to the Openoffic applikation. and that langpack-en-update means, that the translations are updated [12:32] mvo: I'd need to know how much backend/frontend separation are you planning [12:32] but I wouldn't want to do it with tabs most likely [12:33] zyga: python-apt is getting into good shape, I hope that the backend that installs the packages can be python-apt (instead of synaptic) for the next release [12:33] mvo: why? [12:33] zyga: mostly because it makes integration into the app easier [12:33] and gives more flexibility [12:33] hmm, I'm not sure I follow [12:34] (I asked about tabs) [12:34] oh, tabs [12:34] I do understand backend separation, it's a good thing [12:34] tabs get easily confusing. I wonder if we shouldn't just sort the list (e.g. security, apps, translaions) [12:35] mvo: since I quite disagree I'll prepare some mockups today :-) [12:35] maybe you will change your mind later :) [12:38] zyga: feel free, my opinion is not set in stone [12:38] :) [12:41] mvo: actually I've got something interesting, I'll make the mockup, write a blog entry about it and send you the link, fine? === infinity agrees with mvo. === infinity fanboys mvo. === zyga still waits for his first fanboy === slomo_ is now known as slomo === mvo blushes === MasterC [n=chans@dslb-084-060-229-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chris38-home2 [n=Christia@LSt-Amand-152-31-21-96.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:46] mvo: do you know any FOSS artwork source? [12:46] I'd need a bunch of icons [12:47] zyga : openclipart.org [12:48] Which is down right now, cause they were naughty, naughty boys and had a horribly insecure script running in their vhost. [12:48] But they'll be back soon, I assume. [12:49] infinity: thanks, good to know === HWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.228.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:52] hmm [12:53] there is a bug in mozilla-thunderbird postinst script [12:53] seems like a typo [12:53] Which bug is that? [12:53] The misplacement of "-maxdepth" arguments to find? [12:53] infinity: yes [12:53] Which is harmless, but incredibly noisy? :) [12:54] Will get fixed in dapper, but it's not a problem in breezy, just noisy. [12:54] infinity: yes :D [12:54] It doesn't affect functionality. [12:54] infinity: I've sent a 'screenshot' to my friend I hope to convert [12:54] infinity: I had to hide in shame and edith that crap away [12:54] Hah. [12:55] Yeah, I'm going to do a recursive grep across an entire unpacked source mirror at the beginning of dapper, and try to nail every one of those I can find. [12:55] I probably should have just removed the error message from find for breezy, but kinda forgot until it was too late. === kikidonk [n=kikidonk@ip-83-134-5-9.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:01] mvo : Oh, while I'm fanboying you, what's up with the rendering bug in update-manager? (the arrow/text for "show progress of single files" seems to appear twice, overlapped) [01:02] mvo : I'm fairly sure it has to do with my desktop not being at the default DPI (it goes away when I change DPI to 72), but I also don't see it in other GTK apps, so I'm wondering if maybe you're doing something crazy wrong with positioning.. [01:02] infinity: can you get a screenshot [01:03] Sure... [01:03] infinity: I have seen this as well, it seems to be a GtkSocket/GtkPlug problem [01:03] but I would need to check that again [01:03] Right, no need for a screenshot then, if you've seen it. :) [01:04] Oh well, it's a minor irritation. [01:05] Wouldn't matter so much if we weren't currently trying to be so clever and setting laptop DPI based on screen size. [01:05] (ie: If we just did the "dumb windows" thing and set everyone to 72dpi, the problem would be masked) [01:05] And if my eyesight were better, I'd probably run at 72dpi... [01:05] But 72dpi on a 15 inch 1400x1050 screen is.. Really small text. [01:06] And I'm getting old. ;) [01:06] heh :) [01:06] don't be silly ("getting old") [01:06] i thought 96 was the default [01:06] Err, yes, of course it is, I'm backwards. [01:06] Really old, AND bad at math! [01:07] Or, wait. [01:07] No. [01:07] Not bad at math. [01:07] 72 is the default. [01:07] 96 may be a default in some interesting corner cases (and it's what my laptop is set to) [01:07] But most desktops will be at 72. [01:09] how does one check? :) [01:09] oh ok [01:09] i didnt knwo that [01:09] both my laptops have been 96 [01:09]