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| Belutz | hello | 02:15 |
|---|---|---|
| Belutz | where should i write correction suggestion for the faqguide ? | 02:16 |
| n1c0las | Hi Belutz | 02:20 |
| Belutz | hi n1c0las | 02:20 |
| n1c0las | did you chech the new doc.ubuntu.com? | 02:20 |
| Belutz | not yet | 02:20 |
| Belutz | i was seeing help.ubuntu.com | 02:20 |
| n1c0las | This one just went live and should contain answers to all your questions regarding helping out | 02:21 |
| n1c0las | help.u.c. is for help about ubuntu | 02:21 |
| n1c0las | doc.u.c is for the DocTeam | 02:21 |
| Belutz | i see | 02:22 |
| Belutz | ok, i'll dig it out :-) | 02:23 |
| n1c0las | have fun | 02:24 |
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| rob^ | Belutz, just file a bug report in bugzilla on the faq guide | 05:28 |
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| jsgotangco | hi all | 07:56 |
| Madpilot | lo | 07:58 |
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| bhuvan | anybody out there from wikiteam ? | 12:25 |
| Madpilot | bhuvan: me, I guess. What's up? | 12:26 |
| bhuvan | oh, ok. is there any time consuming mandatory wiki re-organisation work to be done ? if yes, let me know. i can contribute my time and improve it. | 12:28 |
| Madpilot | bhuvan: are you on the docteam mailing list? | 12:28 |
| bhuvan | if you mean ubuntu-doc, yes. | 12:28 |
| Madpilot | That might be a better place to ask | 12:28 |
| mdke | bhuvan, if you look at CategoryCleanup, you'll see some pages that need love | 12:29 |
| mdke | that is a good place to start | 12:29 |
| bhuvan | ok | 12:29 |
| === mdke yearns to get on planet | ||
| bhuvan | ok, if you dont mind, could you please explain what kind of clean up work is required ? if you explain for one component, it's more than suffice | 12:31 |
| mdke | bhuvan, basically some pages are not good guides | 12:32 |
| bhuvan | ok | 12:33 |
| mdke | let's take an example | 12:33 |
| bhuvan | ok | 12:33 |
| mdke | number 139 | 12:33 |
| mdke | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostFix | 12:33 |
| bhuvan | ok | 12:33 |
| mdke | that guide is totally unintelligible to normal users | 12:34 |
| mdke | and doesn't explain any of the steps | 12:34 |
| mdke | as well as being badly formatted | 12:34 |
| bhuvan | ok | 12:34 |
| bhuvan | ok | 12:34 |
| bhuvan | i understand, let me clean-up couple of pages based on my existing domain knowledge :) | 12:35 |
| mdke | cool, thanks and good luck | 12:35 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, freezing wiki pages is crack | 12:39 |
| Burgundavia | and one wiki for all things is also crack | 12:39 |
| Burgundavia | we are the only distro to do it, afaik | 12:39 |
| mdke | as always, you are charming | 12:40 |
| mdke | nice to see you too | 12:40 |
| Burgundavia | indeed | 12:41 |
| mdke | are you saying freezing documentation is crack? | 12:41 |
| Burgundavia | yes and no | 12:41 |
| mdke | (that IS what you're saying) | 12:41 |
| Burgundavia | freezing docs for translation is not crack | 12:41 |
| mdke | the point of having our own wiki would be to allow only the docteam to edit it | 12:42 |
| Burgundavia | hmm, not what i imagined | 12:42 |
| mdke | well that is the only possible purpose of having yet another wiki | 12:42 |
| Burgundavia | no it isn't | 12:42 |
| mdke | in my opinion it is | 12:43 |
| mdke | it is intended as a dynamic website basically, we can do what we like with it | 12:43 |
| Burgundavia | I want a seperate wiki so that people don't go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothSupport?highlight=%28CategorySpec%29 and expect to find help about bluetooth | 12:43 |
| Burgundavia | because they would go to help.ubuntu.com/wiki/Bluetooth and KNOW that they will find help there | 12:44 |
| mdke | Burgundavia, i don't think that that is a major problem. | 12:44 |
| mdke | they can search | 12:44 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, it is | 12:44 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, search is crap | 12:44 |
| mdke | why is it a major problem? | 12:44 |
| Burgundavia | Madpilot and I have talked about this a fair amount | 12:44 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, libraries put information in different sections for a reason | 12:45 |
| Burgundavia | the current wiki is basically a non-cateogrized library | 12:45 |
| Burgundavia | where you might find fiction is amongst the non-fiction | 12:45 |
| Madpilot | hmmm... is someone taking my name in vain? | 12:45 |
| Madpilot | ;) | 12:45 |
| mdke | yes, but why is that a major problem | 12:45 |
| Madpilot | hi all | 12:45 |
| mdke | hi Madpilot | 12:46 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, because a lot of the specs are at confusing names | 12:46 |
| mdke | so what? | 12:46 |
| mdke | how long does it take the user to figure out that he is not going to get help at that page? | 12:46 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, as mpt says, by the time people go looking for help, it better be there | 12:46 |
| mdke | 10 seconds? | 12:46 |
| mdke | ah | 12:46 |
| Burgundavia | every barrier you put in the way is a bad thing | 12:46 |
| mdke | yes | 12:46 |
| Burgundavia | specs occupying the same space as docs is really not working | 12:47 |
| Burgundavia | the random laptop testing/motu chatter isn't bad | 12:47 |
| mdke | right, but don't forget that the wiki is not our primary documentation source, loads of stuff there is unreliable | 12:47 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, yes, but better visibility would lead to better editing | 12:48 |
| mdke | anyhow, moving the documentation section is not the only solution | 12:48 |
| Burgundavia | "if you build it, they will come" | 12:48 |
| mdke | but most of all, if you want to move that stuff, you better go somewhere higher than the -doc mailing list | 12:48 |
| mdke | i think a solution would be to hive the specs off, myself | 12:49 |
| mdke | to a subpage | 12:49 |
| Burgundavia | yes, but the specs and the other dev chatter belongs together | 12:49 |
| Burgundavia | it is easier to hive off the docs, at this point | 12:49 |
| Madpilot | a thought: "dev.ubuntu.com" or something similar for the specs, BOFs and such... | 12:49 |
| Madpilot | leave the user-side stuff at wiki.u.c | 12:49 |
| mdke | oh well | 12:50 |
| Burgundavia | we do need to do something | 12:50 |
| mdke | the command to merge the specs into the main wiki came from mark | 12:50 |
| Burgundavia | we are racing towards a brick wall fast | 12:50 |
| mdke | so you better talk to him | 12:50 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, hence why I sensed that it would be easier to hive off the docs | 12:50 |
| mdke | that would still require you to talk to him | 12:50 |
| mdke | especially since we can't just move them to help.u.c | 12:51 |
| Burgundavia | shall I raise it at UBZ? | 12:51 |
| mdke | the server wouldn't take it | 12:51 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, ok | 12:51 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, ignoring the current technical issues, do you still oppose moving the wiki to help.ubuntu.com | 12:53 |
| mdke | i will think about it, i'm not sure | 12:53 |
| mdke | probably yes | 12:53 |
| Burgundavia | what do you see as the solution to better docs from the wiki? | 12:53 |
| mdke | i don't think there is one | 12:54 |
| Madpilot | Burgundavia: remember how many people know the current wiki URLs - moving the non-user-side stuff would be easier | 12:54 |
| mdke | unless the manpower increases, and we can make a team of editors | 12:54 |
| Burgundavia | Madpilot, yes, but that can be solved by redirects | 12:55 |
| Madpilot | Burgundavia: messy | 12:55 |
| Burgundavia | Madpilot, not doing anything is going to be messier | 12:55 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, I don't see more people emerging under the current situatin | 12:55 |
| Madpilot | people are going to notice if, say, RestrictedFormats goes somewhere. Far fewer will be affected if the dev stuff is moved off... | 12:55 |
| === Burgundavia also wants mediawiki on help.u.c, but that is a fight for another day | ||
| mdke | that is not going to happen | 12:59 |
| Burgundavia | why not? | 12:59 |
| mdke | because the idea was to use moin and apply access controls so as to create a dynamic website for us | 01:00 |
| Burgundavia | huh? | 01:00 |
| mdke | as a precursor to moving all the ubuntu website to moin | 01:00 |
| mdke | a sort of test run | 01:00 |
| Burgundavia | moving the entire site to moin? | 01:00 |
| mdke | yep | 01:00 |
| mdke | instead of that plone crap | 01:01 |
| Burgundavia | right | 01:01 |
| === Burgundavia is feeling discouraged | ||
| mdke | moin is excellent, stop whinging | 01:01 |
| mdke | its quite good as a CMS | 01:01 |
| Burgundavia | moin is complete and total crap from a user perspective | 01:01 |
| Burgundavia | search is crap | 01:02 |
| Burgundavia | presentation is crap | 01:02 |
| mdke | presentation is 100% configurable | 01:02 |
| Burgundavia | markup is crap | 01:02 |
| Burgundavia | edit is crap | 01:02 |
| mdke | jeez you don't let go do you | 01:02 |
| Burgundavia | no, I don;t | 01:02 |
| mdke | well let go | 01:02 |
| mdke | it's boring | 01:02 |
| mdke | file bugs with moin if you don't like it and try and improve it | 01:03 |
| Burgundavia | I am not a programmer, nor will I likely ever be | 01:03 |
| mdke | oh well | 01:04 |
| mdke | you are good at filing bugs | 01:04 |
| Burgundavia | from a user perspective, moin is kicked around the block by medawiki | 01:04 |
| mdke | try installing moin and play around with things | 01:04 |
| mdke | you will find it very configurable | 01:04 |
| Burgundavia | now, I completely understand it has performance issues and is PHP | 01:04 |
| Burgundavia | can I drop CamelCase? | 01:05 |
| mdke | of course | 01:05 |
| mdke | but you can anyway | 01:06 |
| mdke | btw have you ever seen newton (.sf.net) | 01:06 |
| mdke | it is a little personal note taker wiki thing | 01:06 |
| mdke | for gnome | 01:06 |
| mdke | it is lovely | 01:06 |
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| Burgundavia | I have played with it | 01:06 |
| Burgundavia | I have hard time fitting something like newton or tomboy into my workflow | 01:06 |
| mdke | ah well | 01:07 |
| mdke | its a good way of writing webpages quickly :) | 01:07 |
| mdke | let's sleep on this help business | 01:07 |
| Belutz | hello all | 01:08 |
| mdke | i was thinking I would like to get more wiki docs into the distro, I might play around with putting some in xml | 01:08 |
| mdke | hi Belutz | 01:09 |
| Belutz | may I use the faqguide to train other people? | 01:09 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, what version of moin do we run? | 01:09 |
| Belutz | like print it, and give it away to the trainee | 01:09 |
| mdke | Burgundavia, where? | 01:10 |
| mdke | Belutz, course | 01:10 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, wiki.u and help.u | 01:10 |
| mdke | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemInfo | 01:10 |
| mdke | there is no moin on help.u.c yet | 01:10 |
| Belutz | mdke, and is it ok if I alter some of the faqguide ? like the dvd section? | 01:10 |
| mdke | Belutz, i don't know about that, you'll have to read the licence I'm afraid | 01:11 |
| mdke | probably ok | 01:11 |
| Belutz | mdke, ok, thanks for the info :) | 01:11 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, to be honest, one of my huge issues with the ubuntu wiki is lack of responsiveness on hendriks part | 01:13 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, I have emailed him several times and got absolutely no response | 01:13 |
| mdke | sorry to hear that | 01:13 |
| Burgundavia | I intend to deal with that at UBZ | 01:14 |
| mdke | you using henrik@u.c? | 01:14 |
| mdke | he is good with email | 01:14 |
| mdke | although probably not with bugzilla | 01:14 |
| Burgundavia | to be honest, I gave up trying to contact him about 2 or 3 months ago | 01:14 |
| mdke | unlikely that he will be at UBZ | 01:15 |
| mdke | is there a list of attendees? | 01:15 |
| mdke | ah i see it | 01:15 |
| Burgundavia | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/Attendees | 01:15 |
| Burgundavia | he won't be there | 01:16 |
| mdke | no | 01:16 |
| Burgundavia | I am very interested in getting together with mpt and brainstorming about the wiki and help in general | 01:16 |
| mdke | go ahead | 01:17 |
| mdke | i'm going for a shower | 01:17 |
| Burgundavia | http://en.wiki.oekonux.org/Oekonux/Project/Wiki/MediaWikiFAQ | 01:19 |
| mdke | Burgundavia, i've gotta go now, check out wiki.ubuntuusers.de for some nice work with moin | 01:24 |
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| Kamping_Kaiser | rob^: you about? | 03:55 |
| jsgotangco | i doubt | 04:06 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 04:06 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol. ok | 04:06 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | i was wondering if i should file bugs on sugestions, or (as i was going to do) ask him about it personaly | 04:06 |
| jsgotangco | file it for personal torture :) | 04:08 |
| jsgotangco | seriously though, you can file it as a wishlist | 04:08 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | hm. its jsut the wording sounds strange to me, but ok. ill stab myself in the face a bit more ;) | 04:08 |
| jsgotangco | Kamping_Kaiser: you're going to drive rob^ crazy heh | 05:47 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol. | 05:47 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | why? | 05:47 |
| jsgotangco | most of the doc bugs atm are always on him | 05:48 |
| jsgotangco | hehehe | 05:48 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | lol. i tried to pick 'serious' ones :| | 05:49 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | i skipped most of the spelling errors for the moment | 05:49 |
| mdke | best thing is to wait for us/jbailey to merge the tree, then fix them yourself and send a patch | 06:17 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | so should i bugzilla them with patch? or should i just email the list with patch? | 06:18 |
| mdke | email the list | 06:20 |
| mdke | but not until the merge has been done | 06:20 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | ok. ill wait :) | 06:20 |
| mdke | Kamping_Kaiser, we have a wiki page which explains how to make and test patches, it is DocteamStepbyStepRepository | 06:20 |
| mdke | that is a good page to get to know early on | 06:20 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | i had a quick look, so i will try to find time to go more in depth tomorrow (or might wait for the merge then redownload the svn sources) | 06:21 |
| mdke | you don't need to redownload it | 06:22 |
| mdke | "svn up" will update the source | 06:22 |
| mdke | do it from the top level directory | 06:22 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | thanks. should i expect the merge soon? or ask in a week or so about it? | 06:23 |
| mdke | yes jbailey said he would try and have a go on monday | 06:23 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | ok. so some time today :) thanks. | 06:24 |
| jsgotangco | hey mdke | 06:27 |
| mdke | hiya jerome | 06:27 |
| mdke | Kamping_Kaiser, monday for jeff is another 24 hours away, give or take | 06:27 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | loll. ok mdke. ill bear it on mind ;) | 06:28 |
| jsgotangco | mdke: there's no such thing as xubuntu atm, its a universe meta-package :( | 06:30 |
| jsgotangco | dunno why there's a need to even do stuff for it | 06:30 |
| mdke | well presumably the meta package points at some xfce packages? | 06:32 |
| mdke | even so, we don't need to fork their docs IMO | 06:32 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 06:32 |
| jsgotangco | mdke: i'd really just focus on partner projects really... | 06:33 |
| mdke | agreed | 06:33 |
| jsgotangco | now that we have an ubuntu server, a server guide is more desired imo | 06:33 |
| mdke | yeah that would rock | 06:35 |
| jsgotangco | *sigh* | 06:36 |
| mdke | ? | 06:36 |
| jsgotangco | need focus/alignment | 06:36 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 06:36 |
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| mdke | that will come | 06:38 |
| mdke | i gtg | 06:38 |
| jsgotangco | i got to sleep | 06:38 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 06:38 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | latermate :0 | 06:39 |
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| hyperactivecrond | i'll do the install guide for dapper | 08:23 |
| hyperactivecrond | s/do/write | 08:24 |
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| hyperactivecrond | ok it says that we need a install guide written, yes? | 09:33 |
| hyperactivecrond | whoops... it would help if we did put out a milestone cd b4 i write an install guide | 09:35 |
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| N6REJ | apokryphos: I need some help | 11:09 |
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| Kinnison | Hihi | 11:35 |
| ajmitch | hi | 11:38 |
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