[01:19] <mantiena> mdz, still online ?
[01:19] <mdz> mantiena: what?
[01:19] <mantiena> mdz, why this patch http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper/casper--automount/ is not included in casper-main or casper-breezy ?
[01:19] <mdz> mantiena: because it isn't finished yet or even basically tested
[01:20] <mdz> mantiena: why do you find it necessary to ask me this several times per day?
[01:21] <mantiena> mdz, because I don't see you answer :) this patch is really tested - Baltix distribution (look at http://linux.akl.lt/baltix ) uses this patch from july and it works fine
[01:21] <mdz> mantiena: Colin, who wrote the patch, told me it wasn't ready yet, and I find that more compelling
[01:22] <mantiena> mdz, ok, I believe, that Kamion doesn't tested this patch ;)
[01:22] <mdz> I don't know whether he has done further work on it since then, but he hasn't submitted it for merging yet
[01:22] <mantiena> I talk with him then
[01:23] <mdz> I suggest sending him email, rather than sending repeated IRC messages as you did with me
[01:23] <mantiena> mdz, ok
[01:23] <mantiena> thanks
[01:27] <jdub> yo j^
[01:29] <j^> yo jdub 
[01:35] <Chipzz> oi jdub :)
[01:35] <Chipzz> jdub: we don't see you talking here much lately ;)
[01:36] <jdub> 3BT man
[01:45] <j^> jdub why is there not more dogfood in the fridge?
[01:46] <jdub> j^: because we are not pensioners?
[01:47] <j^> but some more podcast would not hurt
[01:48] <jdub> this is true
[01:48] <jdub> i am planning to do quite a few at UBZ
[01:48] <jdub> because there will be a lot of tired hackers too weak to say no
[01:48] <jdub> MU HA HA
[01:48] <jdub> *cough*
[01:49] <whiprush> I am coming prepared too
[01:49] <whiprush> got a video camera for the love day and everything
[01:49] <jdub> Kinnison: the only interview question i have prepared for you is, "Are we there yet?"
[01:49] <Kinnison> whiprush: planning on videoing the h0t ubuntu l0v3 ?
[01:49] <jdub> whiprush: oh, seriously? awesome!
[01:49] <Kinnison> jdub: to which the answer is still "NO"
[01:49] <whiprush> jdub: yeah, I just need to find a tripod.
[01:49] <Kinnison> jdub: Check out the URL I pasted in the company channel
[01:50] <whiprush> I was planning on video taping each love day session and then ogg-ing them later
[01:50] <jdub> whiprush: rock!
[01:50] <Kinnison> oooh theora
[01:50] <Kinnison> theoraenc is so slow
[01:50] <j^> Kinnison try ffmpeg2theora
[01:50] <whiprush> that's why it won't be in real time.
[01:50] <whiprush> heh
[01:50] <j^> or install theora-mmx
[01:50] <Kinnison> j^: was running a custom built theora encoder
[01:50] <jdub> Kinnison: the mmx bits crank it up nicely
[01:51] <Kinnison> j^: on an umpteen gigglehurts amd64
[01:51] <j^> amd64 has no mmx support right now
[01:51] <jdub> 50% -> 25% when i was doing lca2005
[01:51] <j^> Kinnison you might be better of using mmx 32bit version
[01:51] <j^> you could try,
[01:52] <j^> or even better, write some mmx code for theora
[01:52] <Kinnison> ended up using xvid :-)
[01:52] <jdub> j^: supposedly the latest branch has runtime detection and stuff
[01:52] <sivang> mdz: My intentions for the possible addition to language-selector, is that when someone chooses additional input language, it's gets automagically configured for him, wasn't that clear from the spec?
[01:52] <j^> jdub well, no
[01:53] <j^> http://v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/ffmpeg2theora-0.15.linux.bin.bz2 is the lastest version i did of ffmpeg2theora and its using theora-mmx
[01:53] <j^> http://downloads.xiph.org/releases/theora/libtheora-mmx-1.0alpha5.tar.bz2
[01:54] <j^> will also speedup gstreamer and friends
[01:54] <jdub> doesn't do runtime detection?
[01:55] <j^> there is some work on using liboil(liboil.freedesktop.org) with theora in http://svn.xiph.org/branches/theora-oil
[01:55] <j^> which does runtime detection
[01:55] <j^> theora-mmx has, i forgot, let me check
[01:55] <jdub> oh, glad there's a liboil branch
[01:56] <sivang> good night all, it's already way late for me :)
[01:56] <jdub> let
[01:56] <jdub> let's do that
[01:58] <j^> yup, theora-mmx has runtime cpu detection
[01:59] <j^> deb ftp://cipherfunk.org/pub/packages/ubuntu/ breezy main
[01:59] <j^>  <- has theora-mmx breezy packages
[01:59] <jdub> rad
[02:01] <jdub> ah, you have new n-m/wireless-tools bits too :-)
[02:08] <mdz> sivang: not only is it unclear in the spec, I don't understand what you just said
[02:09] <infinity> mdz : What's the name of this spec?
[02:10] <infinity> mdz : Without looking at it, I assume he's referring to mapping langpack installation with input method installation, so it all happens in one go.  Which has been discussed on -devel recently, and elsewhere.
[02:10] <mdz> infinity: he put something in the tracker with a vague summary and I sent it back to him for review
[02:11] <mdz> infinity: didn't mention anything about input methods, and neither did sivang above.  I don't think that's it
[02:11] <infinity> mdz : Extending language-selector is easy (and doesn't need a spec, nor discussion really), it's fixing up all the various input method packages and picking sane defaults that requires capital E effort.
[02:11] <infinity> is that when someone
[02:11] <infinity>           chooses additional input language, it's gets automagically configured for him
[02:11] <infinity> ^^^
[02:11] <mdz> I haven't been keeping up with that thread; last time I looked it was the usual "well obviously <foo> is the best input method because everyone I know uses it"
[02:12] <mdz> which we've heard with various values of <foo>
[02:12] <infinity> That looks like it vaguely relates to input methods.  Can't see how else you'd configure an "input language" for someone.
[02:12] <mdz> infinity: language-selector already has that concept
[02:12] <mdz> it maps directly to language-support-*
[02:12] <infinity> Right, I know.
[02:13] <mdz> that is what "input language" means to me
[02:13] <mdz> not "input method"
[02:13] <mdz> language-selector doesn't let the user choose input methods, so that interpretation doesn't make much sense to me
[02:13] <mdz> he can explain when he returns perhaps
[02:13] <infinity> language-support-* isn't input languages, it's "feedback languages"... Difference between the computer talking to you, and vice versa. :)
[02:13] <infinity> Anyhow, yes, he can explain what he means.
[02:14] <infinity> I'll just work with the Debian SCIM maintainer behind the scenes to clean up the input method mess, as I'd already planned on.
[02:14] <mdz> "when someone chooses additional input lanugage" (something that language-selector already does), "[it gets]  automatically configured for him" (unclear what "it" is here)
[04:15] <gma> can anybody recommend a cheap hotel for UbuntuBelowZero?
[04:15] <gma> there's a note on the wiki about the holiday inn, but according to their site they're booked
[04:16] <gma> (as you can see, I'm planning ahead!)
[04:20] <gma> are any of you even going?
[04:20] <gma> !!
[04:24] <jdub> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/
[04:24] <jdub> hmm
[04:25] <jdub> ^ in progress
[04:41] <wasabi> WHy do people think we're so special.
[04:41] <Amaranth> what do you mean?
[04:42] <wasabi> Just venting. A thread on u-d which changed topic, so I don't htink I should respond there anymore. Somehow turned into the standard "linux doesn't get spyware because we're so secure" argument.
[04:42] <infinity> The double-click .deb installer thread?
[04:42] <infinity> I could see that one heading that way.
[04:42] <wasabi> Yeah
[04:42] <wasabi> I'm afraid it's mostly my fault. Heh.
[04:43] <bob2> just spank the originator of the thread and tell them to make an apt source
[04:47] <bob2> wow, so many long and rambling threads
[04:50] <daniels> i think u-d needs something similar to kde-core-devel and (aiui) gnome-desktop-devel/gnome-hackers, where you actually have to justify write access
[04:51] <bob2> or a higher level of "please stop posting to this thread until you've actually read the rest of it and have come up with something new and useful to say" smackdownosity
[04:51] <wasabi> I wish Evolution had some better way of keeping track of mailing lists.
[04:51] <wasabi> Like some sort of auto incoming sort that filed things away into categories, easily, without me micromanaging them.
[04:51] <bob2> you could call it "threading"
[04:51] <bob2> and implement it in every mail client since 1995
[04:52] <wasabi> Yeah, sure, I'm on 16 mailinglists.
[04:52] <bob2> only 16?
[04:52] <daniels> you could call it "folders"
[04:52] <daniels> and implement it in every mail client since 1995
[04:52] <wasabi> I use folders, and I set up rules to filter things into them.
[04:52] <daniels> make that 1975
[04:52] <wasabi> But I use 4 different computers.
[04:52] <wasabi> So I have to sync the rules between them.
[04:52] <gma> he'd call that imap
[04:52] <bob2> wasabi: server-side filtering
[04:52] <wasabi> refer to point 1.
[04:52] <bob2> ?
[04:52] <wasabi> "easily, without me micromanaging them."
[04:53] <bob2> evolution can't cope with you procmila'ing your mail?
[04:53] <wasabi> I don't want to procmail things. I don't run my own IMAP server.
[04:53] <wasabi> Hey I'm not looking for "how do I get this done". I was whining that it's not easier.
[04:54] <bob2> the solution is "use imap and filter on the server"
[04:54] <gma> how would it work though?
[04:54] <gma> if it was easier
[04:54] <Amaranth> you could call it "filters"
[04:54] <daniels> gma: esp
[04:54] <Amaranth> and just use gmail ;)
[04:54] <wasabi> The client could detect the mailing lists and auto create server side filters.
[04:54] <gma> oooh, "labels"
[04:54] <bob2> gma: rules in an LDAP db using XML-RPC, duh
[04:54] <gma> course
[04:54] <gma> silly me
[04:55] <wasabi> "I notice you just received mail from the foo@bar.com mailinglists. Would you like to auotmaitcally filter these messages into a seperate folder?"
[04:55] <Amaranth> labels, oh yeah
[04:55] <Amaranth> that's what those are called
[04:55] <jdub> gma: sieve :)
[04:55] <Amaranth> wasabi: It could check for List-ID, I suppose.
[04:55] <wasabi> ANyways, that's all I was saying.
[04:56] <gma> what about a procmail rule (just the one) to check for the list header (any header)
[04:56] <gma> then smartfolders acting on that folder?
[04:56] <gma> that'd be easy
[04:56] <jdub> comments on http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/ (and children) appreciated
[04:56] <stub> fastmail.fm offers pretty cheap IMAP hosting with server side filters if you can't be arsed running your own systems like me
[04:57] <gma> jdub,what happened to the fridge?
[04:57] <jdub> it's not the fridge :)
[04:57] <gma> jdub: well, it looks nice in safari. left margin surprisingly large though
[04:58] <jdub> yeah, fixing that now
[04:58] <gma> bullets for top and bottom "Messages sorted by:" are a surprise too (i.e. they're not really lists)
[04:59] <bob2> jdub: what's the deal with the 9 of diamonfs?
[04:59] <gma> ooh, no margin at all
[04:59] <jdub> bob2: what do you think?
[05:00] <jdub> bob2: deep down, you know
[05:00] <bob2> jdub: oh, duh
[05:00] <jdub> heh
[05:00] <jdub> talking
[05:01] <gma> so have people booked hotels for Montreal?
[05:02] <gma> actually, better question. which airport do you land at? I saw 3 listed on expedia.com
[05:03] <gma> it's as if none of you are going...
[05:04] <Amaranth> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2005-October/thread.html has a weird space on top
[05:04] <jdub> it does now
[05:05] <jdub> fascist form elements
[05:08] <stub> Gma: Most of the international flights land at Trudeau. The locals aren't online yet though.
[05:08] <gma> stub: thanks. what time do they get in?
[05:08] <stub> They are on UTC-5 or so I think. So whenever they wake up I guess.
[05:09] <gma> lazy buggers, that's only 11pm.
[05:09] <gma> school night I suppose
[05:09] <stub> Gma: It is still Sunday
[05:09] <stub> for them
[05:09] <gma> yeah. and me.
[05:12] <infinity> I land at Dorval Intl.  No idea where that is.
[05:13] <gma> infinity: I'm finding it pretty hard to find any maps from the air port web site. it sucks.
[05:15] <daniels> apparently dorval and trudeau are the same thing
[05:15] <daniels> iirc
[05:15] <gma> handy that, having 2 names
[05:16] <ajmitch> and that there's taxis with a fixed fare at the airport
[05:16] <gma> seems reasonable as dorval isn't listed on expedia's list
[05:16] <gma> ajmitch: cool
[05:16] <daniels> sydney's airport is alternately mascot or kingsford smith, also
[05:16] <gma> by the way, I've never asked anybody this. I'm pretty handy with Python  and GTK, and can shell script quite happily.
[05:16] <daniels> wikitravel: 'Montreal's Pierre Elliott Trudeau Airport (http://yul.aero/) (airport code: YUL), formerly Dorval Airport, is about half an hour west of the city center on highway 20.'
[05:16] <gma> will there be people there who can put me to good use for 10 days?
[05:17] <gma> I was just going to turn up...
[05:17] <gma> daniels: cheers for the link, will read up
[05:17] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:17] <bob2> gma: basically no development happened at the last caonference, and the plan is similar for this one
[05:18] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[05:18] <pounk__> hello
[05:18] <gma> bob2: so what kind of things can I expect? planning and discussion?
[05:18] <bob2> gma: writing "specs"
[05:18] <pounk__> I'm not sure, but I think that I found a bug in ubuntu... when I do tar -xvvjf with the vanilla source, my computer do a system beep and close.. this is normal? ^^
[05:18] <gma> pounk__: is it a laptop?
[05:18] <pounk__> no
[05:20] <pounk__> I don't know if is just my computer.. I tried 2 time to decompress http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.13.4.tar.bz2
[05:20] <ajmitch> gma: yes, lots & lots of planning & discussion
[05:20] <gma> ok. less sure how useful I can be under those circumstances
[05:20] <ajmitch> sounds more like it's overheating, if it's like my box :)
[05:20] <gma> where can I find notes from the last one?
[05:22] <daniels> somewhat randomly spread over wiki.ubuntu.com
[05:22] <gma> thought as much. just reading the BOFs now. interesting stuff up for discussion
[05:23] <pounk__> also, do you know that when you want use a french canandian keyboard, you can only edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and change the keyboard layout to ca(fr).. you can't use the gnome-keyboard-properties.. so /me can't sugess ubuntu breezy for a quebec noob :'(
[05:24] <pounk__> and everobody in the quebec can't really install ubuntu without know how to change the keyboard layout with /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[05:25] <pounk__> it's normal because in the version of xorg use in ubuntu, the team of xorg change the name of the key layout ca_enhanced to ca(fr)
[05:26] <mdz> pounk__: system->preferences->keyboard->add->Canada->French
[05:26] <pounk__> I know..
[05:26] <pounk__> but this don't work..
[05:26] <pounk__> is a bug..
[05:26] <pounk__> gnome think that the layout is ca_enhanced... but now is ca(fr)
[05:28] <mdz> pounk__: if you want ca_enhanced, that's in the menu as "Canada (Multilingual)"
[05:28] <mdz> ca_enhanced is still there
[05:28] <fabbione> hey mdz
[05:31] <mdz> hi
[05:32] <pounk__> no... xorg change the name.. example... now, if I write ca_enhanced in /etc/X11/xorg.conf, I can't use my accents () I must write ca(fr)... but with an old version of xorg (the version that I use in my gentoo by example and the version that I used in ubuntu breezy) I had to write ca_enhanced... and I think that gnome-keyboard-properties use the old configuration of xorg because when I select keyboard->add->Canada->French,
[05:32] <pounk__>  my accents don't work...
[05:32] <fabbione> mdz: sabdfl and I were waiting a confirmation email from you, or at least i didn't get any answer... 
[05:32] <daniels> ca_enhanced just uses ca(fr)
[05:32] <pounk__>  that I used in ubuntu hoary scuse
[05:32] <daniels>  $pcmodels  ca_enhanced     =   pc(%m)+ca(fr)+group(rctrl_switch)
[05:32] <daniels>   *     ca_enhanced     =   pc(pc105)+ca(fr)+group(rctrl_switch)
[05:33] <daniels> that's all it is; i'm not making this up
[05:34] <pounk__> ok, but I don't know why, but the accent of an french canadian keyboard work with ca(fr) but don't work with ca_enhanced... and the accent don't work when I choose french canadian in the gnome tools to configure the keyboard..
[05:35] <pounk__> and ca_enhanced worked with ubuntu hoary and work with gentoo by example.. 
[05:37] <daniels> the canadian layout is being properly fixed for dapper
[05:38] <daniels> the problem stems mainly from the fact that the keyboard itself is doomed by terminal stupidity
[05:39] <pounk__> I don't know.. the only think that I know is that now, when you lived in the qubec, to use the accents, you must edit the /etc/X11/xorg.conf ..
[05:40] <gma> right, bed time
[05:40] <gma> cheers all
[05:40] <daniels> i guess the snide response is to not live in qubec, but in all seriousness, it works just fine for me; i've never been able to reproduce ca_enhanced bugs
[05:42] <PounK> but do you have a french canadian keyboard? is normal if you have an us keyboard, you can't reproduce the bug..
[05:42] <daniels> of course I don't have a French Canadian keyboard, but the only physical difference between keyboards is that some have one extra key, others do not
[05:43] <daniels> i can set my layout to ca_enhanced and it's exactly like I've got a French Canadian keyboard
[05:43] <PounK> if you change the keyboard to french canadian in the key layout tool, try to do an  with the key / in your us keyboard
[05:43] <daniels> what's been printed on the keycaps has no effect on the physical keyboard.  i can write 'whoohoo yarr' on one of the keys and it won't make any difference.
[05:43] <PounK> but trie by example in xchat, not in the gnome keyboard tools
[05:44] <daniels> like this   
[05:44] <PounK> ok
[05:44] <daniels> that  was meant to be a question mark, since that where I used to it being, but yeah
[05:45] <PounK> I will just try to reinstall ubuntu in an other computer to test..
[06:07] <dude2000> hello
[06:08] <dude2000> is anyone in here?
[06:08] <bob2> lots of people are
[06:08] <dude2000> i'm new to irc's
[06:09] <dude2000> just wondering why i didn't see anyone chatting
[06:09] <bob2> this is a channel for developers' peopel only generally talk when they're discussing a particular issue
[06:09] <bob2> (or ripping on Fedora)
[06:10] <dude2000> I've been using linux for a year now and was wondering what I can learn in linux chats
[06:10] <bob2> you probably want #ubuntu, not here
[06:11] <dude2000> ok, i'll try that.  If I had any ideas on what should be developed, is this the room to come to?
[06:11] <bob2> depends what it is
[06:11] <bob2> just throwing out reams of feature ideas with no analysis or prototypes isn' that useful, unfortunately
[06:12] <dude2000> ok, I'll look for other linux rooms intead, thanks
[06:12] <bob2> eh?
[06:12] <khakionion> ouch
[06:15] <minghua> he doesn't seem to be happy
[06:15] <mdz> fabbione: if it doesn't have a question mark in it, it doesn't get a priority reply ;-)
[06:15] <fabbione> mdz: ahahhaha
[06:16] <fabbione> mdz: dude.. time to change pusher? ;)
[06:16] <mdz> fabbione: a pusher is someone who tries to convince you to buy drugs.  I have dealers.
[06:17] <fabbione> eheh
[07:41] <Robi-> uh
[07:46] <pitti> Good morning
[07:46] <Robi-> evening
[07:47] <jsgotangco> afternoon
[07:47] <jsgotangco> :)
[07:58] <Keybuk> moin
[08:02] <pitti> Hi Keybuk 
[08:03] <Keybuk> how's it going?
[08:06] <pitti> Keybuk: still a bit tired, I slept badly
[08:06] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, Aaron told me how to unify diverged branches again
[08:07] <Keybuk> oh right?
[08:09] <fabbione> hey Keybuk 
[08:09] <fabbione> hey pitti 
[08:16] <pitti> Hi fabbione 
[08:16] <pitti> Keybuk: you have to merge A changes to B, and then pull B changes to A
[08:16] <pitti> Keybuk: that works fine
[08:16] <pitti> Keybuk: thinking again about it, after cross-merging, branches are not guaranteed to be identical
[08:17] <pitti> Keybuk: (in particular, after manually resolving conflicts)
[08:17] <pitti> Keybuk: so maybe this was the reason to do it that way
[08:19] <Keybuk> ah, maybe that was it
[08:39] <pitti> slomo_: where was your security patch again?
[08:40] <pitti> ajmitch: phpmyadmin patch looks good, please upload
[08:49] <\sh> moins
[09:08] <pef> hello
[09:14] <pef> can someone check my debdiff for kcheckgmail against debian's version ? should go to breezy-updates, it fixes a grave bug (kcheckgmail doesn't longer works) malone#2018
[09:26] <pitti> Hi JaneW 
[09:47] <dholbach> good morning
[09:47] <seb128> hey dholbach
[09:47] <dholbach> hey sb
[10:06] <sivang> Morning all
[10:07] <sivang> mdz: still around?
[10:07] <sivang> hey dholbach , seb128 
[10:07] <dholbach> hi sivan
[10:07] <seb128> hi
[10:15] <seb128> grumpf
[10:15] <seb128> so GNOME 2.13.1 tarballs are due today and we have nowhere to upload the packages :/
[10:15] <Keybuk> let's do the dapper dance together
[10:15] <Lathiat> mmm tomorrow apparently
[10:16] <seb128> Lathiat: how so?
[10:16] <Keybuk> suuuure
[10:16] <Keybuk> I'd go for thursday or friday
[10:16] <Lathiat> seb128: well sabdfl said if soyuz doesn't land by tuesday we'll go to katie and switch later in the cycle
[10:16] <Lathiat> twas what he said anyway
[10:16] <Lathiat> did he change that?
[10:16] <seb128> no clue
[10:16] <daniels> seb128: DUDE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN
[10:16] <seb128> I've not read that
[10:17] <seb128> daniels: I've the right to be lazy because of that? :)
[10:17] <daniels> yes
[10:17] <seb128> cool
[10:17] <daniels> ;)
[10:17] <dholbach> seb128: meet you in the caf, bye guys :)
[10:18] <Lathiat> on saturday: 8:07 < sabdfl> if its all good, we DOIT tuesday
[10:18] <Lathiat> 18:08 < sabdfl> if not... katie comes into service and we need to switch to soyuz later in the cycle
[10:18] <seb128> Lathiat: k, thanks. I'm not on IRC the saturday :)
[10:18] <Lathiat> wonder whats happenign with merges
[10:41] <Keybuk> nothing at the moment
[10:41] <Keybuk> I'll switch on the bug-o-matic when we have an archive to upload to :p
[10:41] <Keybuk> probably after UBZ anyway, so people don't get distracted
[10:42] <sivang> does anybody know the package name of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleBackupSolution , and/or the status of this? I can't find this in the menus
[10:46] <siretart> sivang: I think this is sbackup
[11:00] <mdz> sivang: for a minute only
[11:00] <ajmitch> evening
[11:00] <ajmitch> pitti: thanks, will upload
[11:01] <\sh> pitti: pingeling
[11:01] <sivang> mdz: ?
[11:01] <sivang> mdz: ah, ok then let's talk when you're back, have a good night
[11:01] <dholbach> sivang: you asked, if he was still there
[11:01] <ajmitch> mdz: btw, sent f-spot patch, hopefully to the right address :)
[11:02] <mdz> ajmitch: I don't see it
[11:02] <\sh> pitti: what about sec stuff like DSA 869-1 (do u have actually a CVE number for it?)
[11:02] <mdz> unless you sent it in the past 3 minutes
[11:02] <ajmitch> mdz: no, probably about 12 hours ago
[11:02] <pitti> \sh: poooonngg
[11:03] <ajmitch> mdz: which address shall I resend to?
[11:03] <sivang> mdz: well, just one thing, seeing that most of my suggestion spec for SystemSnapshot is obsolete by SimpleBackup, why isn't it in main?
[11:04] <pitti> \sh: there is a CVE number
[11:04] <\sh> hmm....nothing works today...welcome to the real world of digital tv \sh :(
[11:04] <mdz> ajmitch: mdz@ubuntu.com
[11:04] <\sh> pitti: in your db?
[11:04] <mdz> sivang: it wasn't finished in time
[11:04] <pitti> \sh: if you want to fix it, see wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
[11:04] <pitti> \sh: the DSA mentions a CVE number
[11:04] <ajmitch> mdz: hm, I sent it there, no bounces or errors
[11:05] <\sh> pitti: u rock...u can read my mind ,)
[11:05] <daniels> mdz: what of mesa and xkeyboard-config?
[11:08] <\sh> pitti: and what about new "upstream versions which are fixing the problem"? backport the patches or forget about it until dapper?
[11:08] <pitti> \sh: backport or forget it :-)
[11:09] <pitti> \sh: you can steal the fix from the Debian update
[11:09] <\sh> pitti: well...3.7.0 in ubuntu against 3.7.2 in debian ;)
[11:09] <ajmitch> \sh: I grabbed the patch for phpmyadmin, but it was a small fix
[11:09] <ogra> moin
[11:09] <pitti> \sh: look at the sarge diff
[11:09] <ajmitch> hey ogra 
[11:09] <ajmitch> how are you?
[11:09] <pitti> \sh: 3.6.2-1 vs. -2
[11:10] <\sh> pitti: ah well...yes
[11:10] <ogra> ajmitch, fine, thanks... have to care for my hostel and need to buy some stuff today...
[11:11] <ajmitch> ogra: great, had a good weekend?
[11:12] <ogra> well... i had to fix up some hwdb stuff it was gotten darn slow ... but beside this, yes
[11:17] <\sh> pitti: what do u want...the patch or the debdiff?
[11:17] <pitti> \sh: debdiff
[11:28] <Tode> hi there
[11:28] <Tode> I'm working for a company which doing IWB (Interactive White Board)
[11:28] <Tode> We want to develop a driver for Linux
[11:29] <Tode> I'm working to get the right to develop a GPL Driver
[11:29] <Lathiat> rock
[11:29] <Tode> Linux is not a priority for the HQ... but I don't care
[11:29] <Tode> I WANT A LINUX DRIVER
[11:29] <Tode> :)
[11:30] <dholbach> maybe the guys in #ubuntu-kernel have more ideas where to point you?
[11:30] <Treenaks> Tode: or at least free specs..
[11:30] <Tode> oh... ok
[11:30] <Tode> copy-paste on kernel
[11:30] <Tode> ;)
[11:30] <Tode> thanks anyway :)
[11:35] <ogra> dholbach, i sent Tode here as well as to -kernel :)
[11:35] <Tode> ;)
[11:35] <Treenaks> hey ogra 
[11:35] <Tode> but people seems to be unavailable on -kernel..... :(
[11:35] <ogra> moin Treenaks 
[11:36] <\sh> hey ogra :)
[11:36] <\sh> btw
[11:36] <ogra> Tode, i told you, we are all in preparation of travelling ... its probably not the best time to catch them
[11:36] <ogra> moin \sh 
[11:37] <Tode> ogra --> ok ok... I'll catch them later then
[11:37] <\sh> ogra: last preparations? /me needs to pack his bag...that's it ;-)
[11:38] <Treenaks> \sh: and your maps ;)
[11:38] <\sh> Treenaks: my maps?
[11:38] <Kamion> morning
[11:38] <Treenaks> \sh: airport -> hotel :)
[11:38] <Treenaks> \sh: etc
[11:38] <\sh> Treenaks: there is a shuttle service as claire explained for 14 CAN$
[11:38] <\sh> or 17
[11:38] <ogra> \sh, i have to buy some new clothes etc... and to care for my hostel for the three frist days
[11:38] <ogra> morning Kamion 
[11:39] <Treenaks> \sh: oh, but only for sponsored people?
[11:39] <\sh> ogra: ah...yes...the stomach problem, I remember :)
[11:39] <\sh> Treenaks: no...officially
[11:39] <Treenaks> \sh: hm, I've booked the ultra-cheap hostel, not the hotel
[11:39] <ogra> yes, UDU made me fat, i have no fitting throusers anymore :/
[11:39] <dholbach> ogra?
[11:39] <dholbach> we're half a year away from UDU
[11:40] <ogra> dholbach, and ? 
[11:40] <\sh> ogra: well...breezy let my hair grow...there was no time to go to a hair dresser ,-)
[11:40] <dholbach> enough time in between :)
[11:40] <dholbach> and don't blame UDU :)
[11:40] <dholbach> udu rocked :)
[11:40] <ajmitch> dholbach: enough time at a computer :)
[11:40] <ogra> i'm old, remember... with every year more your fat sticks on you...
[11:40] <ajmitch> yes, it did rock
[11:40] <\sh> *rotflbtc*
[11:40] <jsgotangco> lol
[11:40] <dholbach> tststs
[11:40] <ogra> dholbach, i blame th ebeer :)
[11:40] <dholbach> sissy :)
[11:41] <dholbach> ogra: of all people you shouldnt complain at all... you have a dog to take out :)
[11:41] <Keybuk> ajmitch: bah, it's t-shirt weather there
[11:41] <ogra> dholbach, i dont complain... but i wouldnt like to hold my edubuntu talk at love day in a jdub costume (pants off !!)
[11:41] <ajmitch> Keybuk: how disappointing
[11:42] <dholbach> i see
[11:42] <\sh> dholbach: hey...fred is not the youngest anymore...he needs more love and petting then ogra ;)
[11:42] <ogra> someone might stream it :)
[11:43] <ogra> \sh, actually he's very bad ...
[11:43] <ajmitch> dholbach: what have you got planned for the MOTU workshop on love day?
[11:43] <\sh> ogra: what's up with him?
[11:43] <ogra> \sh, he gets slowly lame at his rear legs 
[11:43] <dholbach> ajmitch: a brief introduction and showing some simple samples of what we do, so people know it's easy to play in our team :)
[11:43] <ajmitch> easy? get them fixing bugs :)
[11:44] <dholbach> ajmitch: and if we have more time we could do some "excercises", whatever - do you have any ideas?
[11:44] <\sh> ogra: sh*t
[11:44] <ajmitch> dholbach: run through the IntroDeveloperDocs, use of malone
[11:44] <ogra> \sh, yes... i'm not sure if he'll sirvive the winter :(
[11:44] <ajmitch> dholbach: tools like debdiff & REVU
[11:44] <ogra> *survive
[11:44] <dholbach> ajmitch: yeah
[11:45] <ajmitch> all the things people need to get started in MOTU
[11:45] <HiddenWolf> mvo, ping
[11:45] <dholbach> ajmitch: that's cool
[11:45] <ajmitch> \sh & I can help out, I guess :)
[11:45] <ajmitch> & siretart
[11:45] <ajmitch> I guess we'll have as many MOTUs at UBZ as there were at UDU
[11:46] <dholbach> we'll have a brilliant time over there, and we'll have 15 canadian motus after our presentation ;)
[11:46] <ogra> only 15 ?
[11:46] <ogra> bah
[11:46] <ogra> lame
[11:46] <ajmitch> we'll need them if you & ogra get tied up with main for dapper :)
[11:47] <ogra> at least
[11:48] <ajmitch> ogra: I hope your recruitment talk is good then :)
[11:48] <ogra> ajmitch, i'm only in the second line... the talk is dholbach's :)
[11:48] <ajmitch> oh right
[11:48] <ajmitch> well we know we'll get at least 50 then
[11:48] <dholbach> ogra: i'll do all i can :)
[11:48] <siretart> that would be very great!
[11:48] <Treenaks> ogra: I think a moviegotchi should be mandatory for MOTUs
[11:49] <ajmitch> siretart: we'll expect you to be teaching potential MOTUs 
[11:49] <ajmitch> Treenaks: nah..
[11:49] <ajmitch> Treenaks: don't scare away the potential 
[11:49] <Treenaks> ajmitch: why not? :)
[11:49] <ogra> dholbach, there are great ways to poke your butt from the second line if you dont :p
[11:49] <siretart> ajmitch: sure I'll do my best
[11:49] <Treenaks> ajmitch: oh yeah, we're only supposed to tell them after the fact ;)
[11:49] <ajmitch> Treenaks: I mean don't scare them with our faces :)
[11:50] <Treenaks> ajmitch: _ogra_ is recruiting them
[11:50] <Treenaks> ajmitch: ...
[11:50] <ajmitch> haha
[11:50] <ajmitch> be nice
[11:51] <dholbach> ogra: i find the thought of somebody "poking my butt" disturbing :)
[11:51] <ogra> *g*
[11:52] <ajmitch> hm
[11:53] <ajmitch> dholbach: I guess it's an incentive to give a good talk
[11:53] <\sh> ogra: so I have to come again...and see him again...It's really sad
[11:54] <ogra> \sh, yes, he's getting skinny... i can count his ribs from 3m distance now ...
[11:58] <\sh> pitti: u have mail
[11:59] <\sh> ogra: after UBZ there is time again
[11:59] <ogra> \sh, yep
[11:59] <\sh> ok lunch
[12:08] <fabbione> who is Hidde Brugmans?
[12:08] <Lathiat> hiddenwolf ?
[12:09] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: ping?
[12:10] <fabbione> ok let's simplify
[12:10] <fabbione> how do i reassign a bug in malone?
[12:11] <Lathiat> click on the status thingy
[12:11] <fabbione> given that random people are reassigning random bugs to me?
[12:11] <Lathiat> Ubuntu (New) or whatever
[12:11] <Lathiat> then can change it
[12:11] <pitti> fabbione: click on the "request fix in..." line
[12:11] <pitti> fabbione: there you can edit a bu
[12:11] <pitti> g
[12:11] <Lathiat> errr
[12:11] <pitti> fabbione: it is impossible to find...
[12:11] <fabbione> thanks
[12:11] <Lathiat> it'l say like
[12:11] <HiddenWolf> That's me
[12:12] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, that's me.
[12:12] <Lathiat> gst-ffmpeg (Ubuntu)
[12:12] <Lathiat> you click on that
[12:12] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: read above please
[12:12] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, click on the ubuntu link
[12:12] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, on the top
[12:12] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: i have done already, the point is that you shouldn't reassigning random bugs around
[12:13] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, did I?
[12:13] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: i am not the ia64 contact person
[12:13] <fabbione> [Bug 3109]  Need to execute elilo when upgrading kernel image on IA64
[12:13] <HiddenWolf> ugh, sorry
[12:13] <fabbione> i got this reassinged by you
[12:13] <fabbione> not big deal..
[12:13] <HiddenWolf> my reasoning was kernel-upgrade, he'd probably like to know - I'll check with you next time.
[12:14] <hno73> Mithrandir: Are you still working on the NX stuff? I've described the speech recognition use case here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpeechRecognition
[12:14] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm banging my head against something which looks a bit like a dpkg bug, with diverts.  I want to get rid of a diversion since it's no longer used.
[12:14] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: i reassinged it to lamont, he is the IA64 porter
[12:14] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: but generally malone bugs -> MOTU's
[12:14] <Mithrandir> hno73: I worked on ia on Friday, not today, but yes, I work on it ATM.
[12:14] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: it they have been opened against main pkgs -> redirect them to bugzilla
[12:14] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: right ...
[12:14] <Keybuk> there are a few
[12:14] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: the problem is the non-diverted file doesn't seem to be removed by dpkg.  Ever.
[12:15] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: which makes dpkg-divert --remove fail
[12:15] <Keybuk> is the non-diverted file owned by dpkg?
[12:15] <Mithrandir> yes
[12:16] <Mithrandir> uhm, should be
[12:16] <hno73> Mithrandir: OK, cool There seems to be a bug that causes strange UPPERCASE PHRASES to appear at times. It could be the Nomachine client of course
[12:16] <dholbach> fabbione: do you think it's prudent to point the people from bugzilla to malone to bugzilla to malone, if we'll be switching to malone completely soon?
[12:16] <hno73> (anyway, it's described on that wiki page)
[12:16] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog /tmp/ia32-libs-1.4ubuntu5 > LANG=C dpkg -S =ldd
[12:16] <Mithrandir> diversion by ia32-libs from: /usr/bin/ldd
[12:16] <Mithrandir> diversion by ia32-libs to: /usr/bin/ldd.amd64
[12:16] <Mithrandir> ia32-libs, libc6: /usr/bin/ldd
[12:17] <fabbione> dholbach: main -> buzgilla is still current working flow.
[12:17] <fabbione> dholbach: we need to keep consistency until we switch
[12:17] <bob2> haha
[12:17] <fabbione> dholbach: also.. we are still not 100% sure when we will switch
[12:18] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: this is with the version with the diversion installed.
[12:18] <dholbach> fabbione: i don't like the thought of taking care of 2 "bugzillas" either, but i do it, since i don't want to push users around for the n-th time
[12:18] <dholbach> fabbione: i hope we'll have ONE of them soon
[12:19] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: however, if I upgrade to a version without /usr/bin/ldd, the file from ia32-libs is never removed.
[12:19] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: there used to be a bug like that, I thought I fixed it though
[12:19] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: this is with breezy.
[12:19] <Keybuk> oh
[12:20] <Keybuk> yeah, that fix didn't make breezy
[12:20] <fabbione> dholbach: so do i, but i rather keep the current policy as standard for everybody rather than start mixing things around even more
[12:20] <fabbione> dholbach: having one specific point in time for swtiching is better. We will make bugzilla readonly and that's finished
[12:21] <fabbione> dholbach: if you let people opening bugs everywhere, than yes, you need to track 2 BTS
[12:21] <dholbach> fabbione: i understand your position :)
[12:21] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ok, is there a workaround which is less gross than rm /usr/bin/ldd, dpkg-divert --remove?
[12:22] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: upgrade dpkg
[12:25] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, malone 3044, should be bugzilla, right?
[12:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: Pre-Depends: dpkg (>= newer-than-breezy's) ? :-P
[12:26] <Mithrandir> sivang: around?
[12:30] <Keybuk> right
[12:30] <Keybuk> seriously, it's a dpkg bug
[12:30] <Keybuk> there isn't a work-around for it because dpkg is being silly
[12:31] <Mithrandir> what version is it fixed in, then?
[12:31] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: it's a duplicate of one in bugzilla already
[12:35] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: 1.13.11
[12:35] <Keybuk>   * Fixed removal of files involved in diversions during upgrade, caused by
[12:35] <Keybuk>     checking whether the "directory" was in use by another package without
[12:35] <Keybuk>     actually checking whether or not it was a directory.  Closes: #310390.
[12:36] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ook, thanks.
[01:04] <sivang> Mithrandir: now I am
[01:04] <Mithrandir> sivang: you've played a bit with Ubuntu and POWER stuff, right?
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: any great suggestions on what I do with systems which have been affected by the bug already *cough*breezy*cough*
[01:09] <sivang> Mithrandir: some limited plays, yes - what's up with that?
[01:09] <Mithrandir> I could md5sum + rm, of course.
[01:10] <pitti> \sh: patch looks fine, go ahead and upload
[01:10] <koke> http://planet.ubuntu.com/news/ <-- I think this is pointing to an old css
[01:10] <Mithrandir> sivang: IBM wants me to talk a bit about something related to it, any suggestions, pointers or something?  What's the status like, for instance?
[01:13] <sivang> Mithrandir: well, we've came to the point we know what flags need be passed to mkisofs to create an image, however due to the fact I do not have a machine at home, and being busy at work I couldn't really give it much testing.
[01:13] <sivang> Mithrandir: so now, Colin has those in our debian-cd scripts for the images.
[01:14] <Mithrandir> sivang: it's the regular powerpc userland, right?
[01:14] <sivang> Mithrandir: basically, when we get an image booting, and we have IBM behind us to support us with kernels, we'd ideally only have to care for user land.
[01:15] <sivang> Mithrandir: Seems like it. The major changes are the OpenFirwamre and the way it boots, other then that you have the notion of "partitions
[01:15] <sivang> Mithrandir: which only if we make Ubuntu a IOServer platform, we'd need to worry about
[01:21] <\sh> pitti: thx
[01:35] <\sh> pitti: uploaded
[01:36] <pitti> \sh: thanks
[01:40] <\sh> dholbach: ping what you need for the motu workshop?
[01:41] <dholbach> \sh: pong
[01:41] <dholbach> \sh: query
[02:14] <Lathiat> Hirion: badly? :)
[02:14] <Lathiat> err
[02:14] <Lathiat> HiddenWolf: badly :)
[02:14] <Mithrandir> HiddenWolf: it's possible to do it, but you need to know how a lot of your system works.. or you'll learn that, the hard way. ;-)
[02:15] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir, why, it's a 64 bit, it should cope. ;)
[02:19] <Mithrandir> HiddenWolf: because unimportant stuff like libc.so.6 will go away. :-)
[02:19] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir, it'll have to learn and work without it then. ;0
[02:20] <ogra> lol
[02:20] <infinity> Mithrandir : Real men do system maintenance with a (completely) static shell.
[02:20] <infinity> Having a functioning libc is for wimps, anyway.
[02:28] <Mithrandir> infinity: Pft, dynamic shells are fine as long as you know what you're doing.
[02:29] <Mithrandir> I've done it, but I wouldn't recommend it to people who don't feel comfy about doing such stuff as rm /lib/libc.so.6
[02:29] <Mithrandir> and being able to recover their system afterwards. :-P
[02:37] <mdke> is security.ubuntu.com not working?
[02:37] <mdke> i'm getting error 2 from it
[02:37] <Znarl> mdke : What errors?
[02:38] <mdke> [pasting
[02:38] <Lathiat> works for me
[02:38] <mdke> http://pastebin.com/403977
[02:39] <mdke> Znarl, ^
[02:40] <Znarl> I'll have a look.
[02:41] <mdke> merci
[02:42] <mdke> oh hang on
[02:42] <mdke> maybe a firewall
[02:43] <mdke> Znarl, yes, sorry call off the search, it is my stupid network
[02:43] <Znarl> OK, search team has been called off.
[02:46] <mdke> sorry for htat
[02:46] <mdke> that*
[02:47] <Znarl> Np.
[02:49] <syrex|> Hello all :-),I want to add/fix to this script http://tinyurl.com/am97h 3 things: 1.adding input keyboard Hebrew 2.fixing the invert Hebrew in terimnal 3.adding Beep Media Player with my choice of fonts.
[03:20] <sivang> pitti: we just tried to edit the same page on the wiki :)
[03:21] <pitti> sivang: "just"? I didn't edit the wiki for about an hour
[03:23] <trulux> morning
[03:24] <sivang> pitti: it was minor change, you added yourself to the "Interested" field
[03:24] <pitti> sivang: right
[03:25] <pitti> trulux: Hi!
[03:25] <pitti> trulux: btw, do you know about our ubercool new reboot notification?
[03:25] <pitti> trulux: instead of printing a message in the postinst, you shuold just trigger it
[03:26] <pitti> trulux: /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required - just call it in the postinst if it is available, and otherwise print the message on the command line
[03:27] <sivang> hey trulux , 'sup?
[03:27] <trulux> heya pitti, lemme check that
[03:28] <pitti> trulux: call it with sudo and watch the upgrade notice appear
[03:28] <trulux> sivang: just came back from school,  I didn't take all the classes today. Need to study for exams ;)
[03:28] <trulux> pitti: great
[03:29] <sivang> trulux: I wish you good luck! I(actually my GF) know what it is to undergo the exams period, stressful and no sleep
[03:29] <trulux> sivang: howya?
[03:30] <sivang> trulux: pretty fine, trying to sort out stuff so they'll get approved for UBZ :)
[03:30] <trulux> sivang: heh, well, I get less stressed because no one can say I must go to class. Only exams are mandatory, but I don't use to be away
[03:30] <trulux> today I quit school and avoided having philosophy
[03:30] <trulux> kind of anti-stress thing. I'm not up for discussion about lfie today
[03:30] <trulux> ;)
[03:31] <sivang> hehe
[03:31] <trulux> although, other people go out for pot smoking, and then all of those who want to go earlier to home are taken as drug junkies
[03:31] <sivang> hehe
[03:32] <sivang> anyway, this OT , pm me if you like :)
[03:32] <trulux> sure
[03:32] <trulux> :)
[03:45] <pitti> trulux: hmm, no vsec module after reboot...
[03:46] <trulux> pitti: check dmesg
[03:47] <pitti> [   52.159699]  VSEC: Failure registering vSecurity module with the kernel
[03:47] <pitti> trulux: capabilities was loaded without disable=1 apparently
[03:48] <pitti> trulux: the modprobe.d file is in place, though
[03:49] <pitti> trulux: does that work for you out of the box?
[03:49] <pitti> trulux: anyway, bbl (some food)
[03:50] <trulux> pitti: well, it worked but I think I updated modprobe.conf manually with some command
[03:50] <trulux> maybe it was update-modules, dunno
[03:50] <trulux> bbl, lunch time
[03:50] <trulux> :)
[04:19] <sabdfl> jdub: are you happy with DapperReleaseSchedule being announced for wider discussion?
[04:52] <jbailey> .win 7
[05:00] <pitti> Hi jbailey 
[05:03] <Mithrandir> jbailey: do you happen to know if the .cpio archives which make up an initramfs can be compressed separately or if they have to be uncompressed if one does multiple ones?
[05:05] <jbailey> Mithrandir: They can be compressed separately and cat'd together.
[05:05] <jbailey> (tested it)
[05:06] <jbailey> I think it was LaMont who told me that it's a property of gzip.
[05:06] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ok, cool.  There's something wrong with my grub patch, but probably just something small and silly. :-)
[05:06] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Trailing terminating null or something like that, perhaps? =)
[05:07] <Mithrandir> jbailey: probably, yes.  Off-by-one-error or something.
[05:07] <Mithrandir> since cat-ing the archives work.
[05:07] <jbailey> Mithrandir: That's too cool, thanks. =)
[05:12] <pitti> Hi jdthood 
[05:12] <jdthood> pitti: Hi there
[05:16] <Diziet> OK.  So our libgnomeui is more recent than unstable's.  How helpful.  And the pkg-config metadata file is incompatible with etch mozilla-firefox.
[05:16] <Diziet> Anyone here know anything about font machinery ?  pangoxft, etc.
[05:17] <mjg59> I know a small amount
[05:17] <zburns> I'm doing some C# development (using Mono) and have just started using Ubuntu.  Is there a project list floating around that I can see if anybody wants help.
[05:17] <Diziet> So are we supposedly using different font machinery to Debian ?  Are there relevant changes I should know about ?
[05:18] <Diziet> etch's libgnomeui-dev has a .pc file mentioning libpangoxft-1.0 which breezy's doesn't.
[05:18] <sivang> zburns: if you want to help maintain mono, you can contact tseng for that
[05:18] <Diziet> I'm trying to decide whether breezy's is broken, or etch has different font handling to us, or something.
[05:19] <DerekS> zburns: beagle, f-spot, plus many others, you might have better luck in a mono channel because the this isn't appropriate convo for this one
[05:19] <zburns> dereks: thanks
[05:19] <tseng> bwar?
[05:19] <sivang> elmo: btw, do you know what is the status of SimpleBackupSolution ? 
[05:20] <Nafallo> sivang: sbackup is in universe :-)
[05:20] <sivang> Nafallo: I've seen that, yeah. I was wondering to what usable, if any state this is in :)
[05:20] <infinity> sivang : Play with sbackup and file a bazillion bugs in the Debian BTS, please.
[05:20] <sivang> infinity: debian? but I thought that was a Google SoC for Ubuntu, no?
[05:21] <mjg59> Diziet: We shouldn't be using different font machinary
[05:21] <Diziet> And the way our libgnomeui-dev is newer than etch's is generally worrying.  Maybe someone (preferably someone who knows what they're doing) should consider talk the Debian maintainer into an update.
[05:21] <Diziet> mjg: Then I must conclude that our .pc file is wrong.
[05:21] <mjg59> pangoxft is the xft backend to pango
[05:21] <Diziet> Right, that's what I guessed.
[05:21] <mjg59> If we weren't using that, then we wouldn't be getting anti-aliasing
[05:21] <infinity> sivang : Yes, but the SoC student also happens to be a Debian developer, has the packages in sid, and would like bug reports there.
[05:21] <Kamion> Diziet: wlog our GNOME is newer than Debian's
[05:21] <infinity> sivang : I'm sure reports in Malone can also be passed to him, but.. <shrug>
[05:21] <Diziet> kamion: IC
[05:22] <Diziet> So all of our gnome apps are supposed to link against pangoxft ?
[05:22] <mjg59> No
[05:22] <mjg59> Apps should link against pango
[05:22] <Kamion> seb works with the Debian GNOME folks too, but new upstream releases get slapped into our tree very quickly
[05:22] <mjg59> What pango uses as its backend is up to pango
[05:22] <seb128> Diziet: why is it worrying?
[05:23] <seb128> Diziet: pango 1.10 uses cairo now, Debian has it to experimental only
[05:23] <Diziet> If I don't include -lpangoxft-1.0 and -lXft on the link line for firefox-bin I get an undefined symbol.
[05:23] <mjg59> Firefox may do xft magic itself
[05:23] <Mithrandir> Diziet: I hope you're using pkg-config?
[05:23] <Diziet> mithrandir: Yes, or rather firefox's configure.in is.
[05:24] <mjg59> Hmm. Let me take a look.
[05:24] <Diziet> seb128: Um, so you seem to be contradicting mjg59 who said we are using the same font machinery as Debian.
[05:24] <infinity> seb128 : Didn't we just discuss this undefined symblo issue in IRC a week ago>
[05:24] <mjg59> Oh, are we using the Cairo backend for font rendering now?
[05:24] <sivang> infinity: I see, well, do you recall our talk about providing system snapshot? one last feedback from you, before I drop the whole idea :) Do you see any benefit in providing sbackup + packagae selection snapshotting tools combined ? 
[05:25] <Diziet> mjg59: There's lots of cairo on my link line :-).
[05:25] <seb128> infinity: yeah, I've filled this bug upstream but no reply yet
[05:25] <mjg59> In that case, I may be talking bollocks
[05:25] <Diziet> If we're different to Debian then my answer is to tell firefox's configure not to use xft.
[05:25] <seb128> Debian unstable use pango 1.8 which uses xft
[05:25] <elmo> sivang: no idea, no, sorry
[05:25] <Diziet> I just wanted to check in which direction to change it ...
[05:25] <infinity> sivang : <shrug>... I'm pretty uninterested in the whole thing in general, to be honest.  But file feature requests and patches on sbackup, if it doesn't do what you think it does.
[05:25] <seb128> Debian experimental/Ubuntu use pango 1.10 which uses cairo
[05:26] <Diziet> seb128: Thanks.  Right, I'll go back to wrestling the build system now.
[05:26] <sivang> elmo: sure, thanks, already talking with infinity about that
[05:26] <Diziet> (Unless you happen to have a handy predigested answer.)
[05:26] <seb128> Diziet: we don't want to use xft IIRC, I've made some  firefox patching/upload about that, the corresponding upstream bug are probably pointed by the changelog
[05:27] <seb128> firefox (1.0.6-1ubuntu9) breezy; urgency=low
[05:27] <seb128>   * debian/ubuntu-patches/firefox-nopangoxft.patch:
[05:27] <seb128>     - build with pangocairo (Ubuntu: #13881).
[05:27] <seb128> in fact
[05:27] <sivang> infinity: I understand, thanks.
[05:28] <Diziet> seb128: Oh, right.
[05:28] <mdke> elmo, do you have an eta on synching planet as per jdub's request?
[05:31] <elmo> mdke: jdub hasn't requested it
[05:32] <mdke> elmo, oh dear, he said that he had two weeks ago
[05:33] <mdke> elmo, anything you can do?
[05:42] <elmo> mdke: no - baz hates me.  send a mail to rt@admin.canonical.com about it, and I'll look at it later
[05:42] <mdke> elmo, thanks
[06:04] <Diziet> ccache++ again.
[06:04] <Robot101> Diziet: hm?
[06:04] <tseng> Robot101: hint, he maintains firefox
[06:04] <Diziet> Oh, just my workstation not-compiling firefox.
[06:04] <Robot101> :)
[06:04] <Robot101> cache hit                           5742
[06:04] <Robot101> cache miss                          1109
[06:05] <j^> too bad ccache does not work with scons
[06:05] <tseng> j^: using your NM 0.5.1 stuff
[06:05] <tseng> j^: it rocks.
[06:06] <j^> tseng yeah 0.5.x is quite an improvement to 0.4
[06:08] <Nafallo> tseng, j^: where can I try it? :-)
[06:08] <j^> Nafallo http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/
[06:08] <Nafallo> thanx
[06:09] <Nafallo> j^: I'll build it and point you to my amd64 packages so that you can import them then... ;-)
[06:09] <Nafallo> baah
[06:11] <Nafallo> anyone else get's MD5sum-errors on breezy-security/universe?
[06:12] <infinity> Znarl / elmo ---^
[06:12] <infinity> Nafallo : Looks like onle one machine is out of sync.  Just try the update again and it should go okay (yay, round-robin DNS)
[06:14] <Znarl> I'll sort that out.
[06:14] <Nafallo> worked after 4th time ;-)
[06:14] <Nafallo> thanx :-)
[06:21] <mdz> morning
[06:21] <\sh> mdz: evening :)
[06:22] <pitti> Hi mdz, how are you
[06:25] <fabbione> hey mdz
[06:27] <seb128> hi mdz
[06:31] <mvo> hey mdz :)
[06:47] <jdthood> Diziet: Have you received any other reports of #17216?
[06:48] <Diziet> jdthood: None that aren't in the report, I think.
[06:49] <Diziet> Do you have data that contradicts the theory that it only happens if you have the Flash plugin ?
[06:52] <jdthood> Diziet: I think I do have flash plugin installed.  I have /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/libflashplayer.so and symlinks to it from mozilla-firebird/plugins, mozilla-firefox/plugins, mozilla/plugins, mozilla-snapshot/plugins
[06:53] <jdthood> Removing flashplugin-nonfree ...
[06:55] <jdthood> Problem solved
[06:57] <jdthood> Diziet: Consider your theory strongly corroborated.
[06:58] <Diziet> Right.  Also, just a mo ...
[06:58] <Diziet> Um, can you attach your xdpyinfo output to the report ?
[06:59] <Diziet> And try running firefox with the Flash plugin and XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 in the environment.
[06:59] <Diziet> According to the theory - not mine, but I seem to be holding the baby :-) - that will work.
[07:00] <Diziet> See the gnomic comment from axel@banzais.org.
[07:01] <Diziet> Thanks.
[07:02] <jdthood> Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (7.0.25-5) ...
[07:05] <highvoltage> I have something that I must say.
[07:05] <highvoltage> I LOVE UBUNTU!
[07:07] <jdthood> Diziet: (1) Run firefox; try to load www.ford.com -> death; (2) export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1;  run firefox; load www.ford.com -> Welcome to the home Ford Motor Company
[07:09] <mdz> highvoltage: :-)
[07:09] <jdthood> Diziet: Should I add 'export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1' to my .bashrc ?
[07:09] <highvoltage> :)
[07:10] <highvoltage> mdz: how are things? I finally got to see shuttleworth_zimmerman_band.avi, it cheered me up last week when I was feeling very down :)
[07:10] <mdz> highvoltage: a bit hectic; leaving for Montreal on Wednesday morning
[07:10] <Robi-> Kamion, around?
[07:11] <Mitario> hi everyone
[07:11] <Diziet> Damn, X VC switching bites me again.
[07:11] <Mitario> jdub, around?
[07:11] <Diziet> And I don't even want to reboot the damn thing because it's got a build running in it.
[07:12] <Diziet> jdthood: Sorry about the delay.  Yes, please do that and let me know if any other X program behaves differently.
[07:12] <highvoltage> mdz: cool, enjoy it. i can't wait for December, I've taken the entire month off to do some motu'ing, I'm going to drive ogra nuts!
[07:12] <Diziet> I can't tell atm, but if you haven't told the bug report about your experience then please do so.
[07:12] <mdz> highvoltage: you won't be joining us in montreal?
[07:13] <highvoltage> mdz: unfortunately not. i'd love to join, but a combination of lots of work and lack of funds is against me.
[07:14] <Diziet> And now chvt is hanging too.
[07:14] <highvoltage> mdz: but i will be joining the events later next year, i have lots of plans to make more time and money for next year :)
[07:16] <\sh> shuttleworth_zimmerman_band?
[07:17] <jdthood> Diziet: Another question: In Opera ctrl-mouseup zooms in.  This is consistent with the way mouseup and sliders control the viewport's vertical position.  Illogically, Internet Explorer reverses the function of ctrl-mousemovement and unfortunately firefox follows IE.  Any change of getting firefox to work like Opera in this respect?
[07:18] <jdthood> s/change/chance/
[07:19] <jdthood> Is this a distro decision or something to be taken up upstream?
[07:20] <Diziet> jdthood: I don't think this is a distro decision BICBW.
[07:20] <\sh> jdthood: it's more a decision of QT and opera
[07:20] <Diziet> That is, I haven't seen anything about it in our patches.
[07:20] <Diziet> You mean `mousewheel movement such that top of mouse moves away from user' by mouseup ?
[07:20] <highvoltage> \sh: have you seen it yet?
[07:20] <\sh> highvoltage: what? the video? no...
[07:21] <Diziet> And by `zoom in' you mean `show later part of document by moving the viewport down the document or the document up the screen' ?
[07:21] <jdthood> Diziet: yes
[07:21] <highvoltage> \sh: i'll send it to you tomorrow (or at least a link)
[07:21] <jdthood> By 'zoom in' I mean that the font size increases.
[07:21] <Diziet> I think mouse down ought to do the same as page down.  But I've never used a mouse wheel myself.
[07:21] <Diziet> The font size !
[07:21] <\sh> highvoltage: a link is good enough :)
[07:22] <Diziet> I didn't even know mouse wheels changed the font size.
[07:22] <jdthood> ctrl-mouseup/ctrl-mousedown
[07:22] <Diziet> So you say :-).
[07:22] <\sh> Diziet: konqui is doing it as well
[07:22] <Diziet> Fair enough.
[07:22] <\sh> Diziet: it's qt / kde behaviour
[07:22] <Diziet> And we can be compatible with IE or KDE but not both ?
[07:23] <Diziet> I don't want to make this decision, ask ubuntu-devel ? :-)
[07:23] <\sh> Diziet: i would say a mapping of ctrl+mb4 and ctrl+mb5 to ctrl-+ and ctrl-- should be enough ,-)
[07:23] <Diziet> Are their keystrokes that change the font size ?
[07:24] <Diziet> Right, so Ctrl-+ increases font size.
[07:24] <Diziet> I think + is more like down, but this reminds me of the flightsim vs FPS mouse movement argument.
[07:24] <\sh> Diziet: oh well..i have to look...but jdthood spoke about "zooming" which is something else then inc/dec font sizes
[07:24] <Diziet> So go and ask lots of people in a bigger forum.
[07:24] <Diziet> \sh: He seems to be using the word to talk about font sizes.
[07:24] <jdthood> \sh: Granted
[07:25] <\sh> my wheel mouse is in the company at the moment...so I'll check it out tomorrow
[07:26] <Mithrandir> jbailey: any idea if the load address of the initramfs has to be aligned?
[07:26] <jdthood> \sh: So the solution is not to think of ctrl-mousup as moving forward, but as raising a font-size lever? :)
[07:26] <Diziet> Anyway, ask in ubuntu-devel.  Sorry, I have to go RIGHT NOW.
[07:26] <Diziet> TTFN all
[07:26] <jdthood> Diziet: Seeya
[07:27] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I don't, sorry.  I suspect so, since it gets handed around as a pointer internally.
[07:28] <\sh> jdthood: well...u mean the movement up of the mouse or the wheel scrolling upwards?
[07:29] <\sh> (movement up of the mouse...moving the mouse north ,-)
[07:29] <Mithrandir> jbailey: I found a bug, let's see if this fixes it, if not, I'll try aligning.
[07:29] <jdthood> \sh: Sorry, I have always meant "top of mouse wheel moving away from the user while control key is held down" by 'ctrl-mouseup'.  That wasn't very clear of me.
[07:29] <\sh> (or into direction 1200)
[07:30] <\sh> jdthood: ok...so..wheelup + ctrl == increasing font size and wheeldown+ctrl == dec font size
[07:30] <jdthood> \sh: In Opera, yes.
[07:31] <\sh> jdthood: in konqueror as well...which is QT behaviour..it works with all qt text controls
[07:31] <Nafallo> jdthood: firefox and nautilus to.
[07:31] <jdthood> In IE and firefox, the opposite is the case.
[07:31] <Nafallo> hmm
[07:32] <Nafallo> nope
[07:32] <Nafallo> not in nautilus atleast ;-)
[07:32] <Nafallo> but in firefox
[07:32] <Nafallo> bug :-P
[07:33] <jdthood> Aha.  If nautilus already does it the Opera way, then I can make a strong case for changing firefox's behavior.
[07:33] <jdthood> "consistency"
[07:35] <Nafallo> I never pondered, but I ALWAYS tries to shrink with the opposite. now it makes sense why :-P
[07:36] <jdthood> Nafallo: Yes, when I started using this feature in firefox I found it frustratingly counterintuitive.  You move the viewport "forward" and ... things get smaller?
[07:36] <jdthood> They say that LSD can cause one to have that kind of experience.
[07:36] <Nafallo> in firefox yes, in nautilus no ;-)
[07:37] <Nafallo> I don't really use the "feature", so for me both is annoying ;-)
[07:41] <infinity> I'm all about wheeldown=growFont, wheelup=shrinkFont.  Given all the other things the wheel is used for "scrolling through lists of things, from first to last, scrolling through pages, top to bottom", that feels the most intuitive to me.
[07:43] <Nafallo> for me wheelup feels like + ;-)
[07:43] <Mithrandir> infinity: that feels utterly backwards for me, but I don't use the feature, so.. :-P
[07:43] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: not even by mistake? ;-)
[07:43] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: not really, no.
[07:43] <runeh> Scrolling *down* the page ...
[07:44] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: baah, just because you know what you do :-P
[07:44] <Mithrandir> heh
[07:44] <Mithrandir> well, rebooting.  Again.
[07:45] <jdthood> Scrolling down the page (PgDn, mousewheel toward user) moves the text up.  We don't experience this as counterintuitive because we feel as if we are moving the viewport.  The same should be true for ctrl-mousewheel, IMHO.
[07:46] <mdz> I don't find the feature to be particularly useful regardless of which way the binding would work
[07:46] <mdz> on any page of non-trivial size, it takes a second or so to resize it
[07:47] <mdz> such that a smooth wheelish sort of operation isn't really possible anyway
[07:47] <Nafallo> mdz++
[07:50] <jdthood> OK I'll file this issue at Severity: enhancement.
[07:50] <Mithrandir> mdz: my mouse has wheel-up/down-buttons, then it makes a bit more sense.
[07:50] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ok, works now. :-)
[07:51] <jdthood> #18409
[07:52] <jbailey> Mithrandir: too cool.  Was it just alignment?
[07:52] <Mithrandir> jbailey: apparently, yes.
[07:53] <jbailey> Hmm.
[07:53] <jbailey> I wonder if that's biting me somehow with initramfs on ia64.
[07:53] <sivang> mdz: I revised the i18n spec, I hope its less vauge now
[07:53] <Mithrandir> jbailey: as well as such things as remembering to add to the size of the initrd, not just overwrite it with the latest fragment length, remembering to declare variables as static and similar vuss.
[07:53] <jbailey> The magic numbers are all confused at the beginning, it almost seemed like an endianness problem. but it could be that too.
[07:53] <jbailey> Mithrandir: =)
[07:54] <Mithrandir> jbailey: but this seems to require updating of the stage1 code, which means running grub-install.  How do we get people to do that?
[07:55] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Mmm.  Suggest burning that bridge when we come to it.  I can't see anything in Dapper wanting that, since it would be a non-conservative change.
[07:55] <jbailey> Mithrandir: But it would be nice to say that it's possible on new installs and put it in the release notes?
[07:56] <Kamion> Robi-: yes?
[07:56] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yes, we can generate the monolithic initramfs as well as all the small chunks.
[07:57] (Mithrandir/#ubuntu-devel) jbailey: it's a fairly small patch, though, so I wouldn't feel too bad to push it into dapper.
[08:02] <Mithrandir> jbailey: http://err.no/patches/grub_chained-initramfs.diff is the patch
[08:03] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Nice!  While you're digging in there, feel like adding one more? =)
[08:05] <Mithrandir> jbailey: to do what?
[08:05] <jbailey> Mithrandir: +  printf ("   [Linux-initrd, foo @ 0x%x, 0x%x bytes] \n", moveto, len);
[08:05] <jbailey> Mithrandir: and friends should ideally be silent.
[08:06] <Mithrandir> I could do that, but it's not in the form of a dpatch yet.  Should be trivial to do once we open up for real.
[08:06] <jbailey> Mithrandir: #14502 is the wishlist.  It was too late for breezy, but it's probably the right thing.
[08:06] <Mithrandir> How would we get them enabled for debugging etc?
[08:06] <jbailey> Hmm.
[08:07] <jbailey> Maybe add another token "quiet"?
[08:07] <jbailey> Then update-grub can add that by default
[08:07] <jbailey> I can't think of any other uses that could be overloaded for that would conflict.
[08:07] <Mithrandir> you mean before root (..) ?
[08:07] <jbailey> Yeah.
[08:07] <Mithrandir> sure, that's easy enough to do
[08:07] <Mithrandir> or make it quiet by default and verbose will enable it.
[08:08] <ogra> re
[08:08] <jbailey> I'd be inclined to leave the default as noisy, since it's expected behaviour for other grub installs.
[08:08] <jbailey> We can change it in our generated stanzas easily enough without affecting what happens for people on their other OS installs.
[08:08] <mdz> sivang: it's better, but I'm still not sure that I understand
[08:08] <jbailey> (Avoiding panicy "WHY DID IT CHANGE?!?") emails.
[08:09] <Mithrandir> point.
[08:09] <mdz> sivang: you seem to be saying that when the user selects a language, we should choose a new keyboard layout for them
[08:09] <Mithrandir> jbailey: I'll do that tomorrow, since it's a bit past 2000 here now, :-)
[08:09] <mdz> sivang: but for a given language, there are multiple possible keyboard layouts
[08:09] <jbailey> Mithrandir: No rush. =)  
[08:09] <mdz> sivang: that's why, e.g. in the installer, we need to ask for language and keyboard layout, not just language
[08:09] <Mithrandir> jbailey: well, given that we can't upload yet.. :-P
[08:11] <sivang> mdz: adding another input language to GNOME keyboard notifier means changing layouts? 
[08:12] <mdz> sivang: what is the GNOME keyboard notifier?  I assumed you meant the layout switcher
[08:13] <mdz> sivang: I am talking about /usr/lib/gnome-applets/gnome-keyboard-applet. you?
[08:15] <sivang> mdz: , yes the applet that allows you to  define grp shift behaviors to switch between english to herbew , etc. So yes, that's a layout switcher
[08:16] <sivang> mdz: you are right. I have taken in consideration language which have only 1 layout per language, such as Hebrew and Arabic..
[08:21] <sivang> mdz: maybe we can cross users' selected location and choose a reasonable layout for him. By choosing, I mean, we add it to the layout switcher, so he will have the option to use it when he wants to type in his lanugage.
[08:26] <infinity> sivang : Well, you need to cross-reference with their current selected layout, too.
[08:27] <infinity> sivang : For instance, if I live in Canada, install with a US Englihs keyboard, then add French as a second language, I do NOT want ca_fr (that layout will so NOT work the way I expect it to on a US English keyboard), instead I probably want US International (with dead keys)
[08:31] <sivang> infinity: and asking them to specify that is starting to be like using the layout switcher itself..
[09:31] <zyga> hi I'm trying to debug a scanner hotplug script
[09:32] <zyga> it sets up bad permissions (root:root instead of root:scanner)
[09:32] <zyga> where to start?
[09:34] <madsen> 'ey! :)
[09:36] <zyga> hmm
[09:36] <madsen> I know that this isn't a support channel, but I'll dare asking this anyways... Any info on how to prevent mousedev from taking control of my tablet when plugging it? (I've asked on #ubuntu, but no one seems to know or be willing to answer.)
[09:38] <madsen> zyga: Actually, I think it's /etc/hotplug/usb/libusbscanner line 18. ;)
[09:43] <infinity> zyga : I would assume your scanner's "magic" isn't included in libsane.usermap, so it's not detected as a scanner (and the perms aren't set)
[09:44] <madsen> How does one go about finding that "magic"? I think I need to remove my tablets "magic" from usb.handmap to prevent mousedev from taking it over.
[09:44] <Mithrandir> madsen: lsusb
[09:44] <madsen> Ohoo! :)
[09:44] <madsen> I was groping around in proc to find it. :-|
[09:44] <Mithrandir> you could probably have found it there too, but lsusb is less work
[09:45] <madsen> Mithrandir: Indeed. :)
[09:45] <madsen> Bus 002 Device 009: ID 056a:0060 Wacom Co., Ltd 
[09:46] <madsen> So, how would I write that usb.handmap style? (The 0xNNNN notation.)
[09:47] <infinity> 0x056a 0x0060 
[09:47] <madsen> infinity: Hehe, ok... Simpler than I thought. :) Thanks!
[09:47] <infinity> (try 'lsusb -v' to get a more complete output)
[09:48] <cevizoglu> does anyone know of a bug w/ pptpconfig getting double-free from glibc, or should I file it in bugzilla?  or is this the wrong place to ask?
[09:48] <cevizoglu> er, I mean glibc reporting a double-free and then pptpconfig disconnecting...
[09:49] <infinity> File it in bugzilla, please.
[09:49] <cevizoglu> infinity, ok, thx  :)
[09:52] <madsen> Hmm, that didn't work, apparently... :(
[10:02] <leonel> can we start testing  Dapper ? 
[10:02] <dholbach> leonel: no, it's not open yet
[10:02] <leonel> dholbach, thanks
[10:10] <ogra> leonel, come back from time to time or even idle here and watch the /topic ;)
[10:12] <zyga> re
[10:12] <zyga> sorry the scanner killed my system 
[10:13] <Treenaks> whee, that was 90% of packing
[10:14] <ogra> Treenaks, already packing ? 
[10:14] <Treenaks> ogra: yeah, if I pack now, I won't forget as much ;)
[10:14] <Treenaks> ogra: as when I packed on Friday
[10:14] <ogra> heh...
[10:15] <ogra> i fly on wednesday, but havent packed anything yet :)
[10:15] <zyga> Bus 002 Device 007: ID 06bd:2095 AGFA-Gevaert NV SnapScan e25
[10:15] <zyga> that's my scanner
[10:15] <zyga> where should I add its 'magic'?
[10:17] <leonel> ogra, perfect !
[10:17] <ogra> :)
[10:17] <sivang> ogra: when are you arriving at UBZ?
[10:17] <Treenaks> ogra: I fly on Saturday
[10:18] <sivang> Treenaks: me too :)
[10:18] <ogra> sivang, i'll arrive on wednesday in montreal ... (the dumb hostle guys still havent confirmed my room, grumble) i'll arrive at the conference on Sat.
[10:19] <sivang> ogra: ah cool, doing a trip there?
[10:19] <sivang> ogra: Looking forward to seeing you there :)
[10:19] <ogra> not really... just a bit recovering from travelling and looking around a bit
[10:19] <ogra> i didnt plan any big sightseeing
[10:20] <ogra> the hostel has free wireless ... if they ever confirm my booking i'll just do my work from there
[10:20] <sivang> ogra: coool :)
[10:21] <ogra> eles i'll probably end up on a park bench sleeping under a newspaper ... 
[10:21] <ogra> :)
[10:21] <sivang> ogra: luckily , I arrive at 29th evening, so I will probably have time to sleep and recover before next day 
[10:22] <zyga> infinity: no, the magic is indeed contained in libsane.usermap file
[10:23] <mpt> ogra: What hostel's that?
[10:24] <ogra> mpt, same as doko's ... i'll try to catch him tomorrow by mobile so he can hopefully sort it... else i'll try to find *something* after arrival...
[10:25] <jmg> hi guys
[10:26] <wasabi_> woo hoo. car paid off.
[10:26] <wasabi_> I now have no debt.
[10:29] <jmg> is any work being done to replace init with another boot scheme?
[10:30] <ogra> jmg, first we have to do a spec ... that will probably happen next week tha the conference...
[10:31] <ogra> s/tha/at/
[10:32] <jmg> ogra: just wondering how it could be done but retain compatibility with sysv stuff from upstream
[10:32] <ogra> jmg, thats what the spec should describe ...
[10:33] <zyga> jmg: AFAIR yes - there was an article about it somewhere recently
[10:34] <jmg> zyga: is this inline with a debian action for etch?
[10:34] <zyga> jmg: I'm not sure - etch is the next debian right?
[10:34] <ogra> unlikely... the will add dependency init to sysv
[10:34] <zyga> jmg: if yes -- then yes
[10:34] <ogra> *tehy
[10:34] <ogra> grr
[10:34] <ogra> *they
[10:35] <ogra> jmg, here's the first draft (not very much though) https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/replacement-init
[10:36] <ogra> i know Keybuk disagrees with debians way ....
[10:36] <Amaranth> how do i comment on a spec?
[10:36] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: come to the BOF
[10:36] <Amaranth> Mithrandir: Not possible.
[10:37] <ogra> Amaranth, you'll be able to comment to the wikipages comment section...
[10:37] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: I guess you should add a "comments from people who won't be there" section to the bottom of the spec, then
[10:37] <Amaranth> I want to try to kill MenuEditorPanelIntegration before people waste time on it, even doing a BOF.
[10:37] <ogra> Amaranth, why ? 
[10:38] <ogra> its an actual user request to add the menu editing back to the right click options in the panel...
[10:39] <Amaranth> ogra: In order to do it you need to 1) write a custom widget and get themes to work with it, 2) basically port alacarte to C and integrate it into said widget to actually do things, and 3) do the same for KDE
[10:39] <Amaranth> GtkMenu does not support what would be needed for doing this
[10:39] <ogra> KDE already does it afaik
[10:40] <Amaranth> ogra: There is no way it would get finished in time and more than likely whoever was working on it would give up once they realized how much work it would be.
[10:40] <Amaranth> nope, KDE has kmenuedit
[10:40] <ogra> whats the problem with just adding the old functionallity bach to GtkMenu but call smeg from it ? 
[10:41] <ogra> finishing in time depends on the timeframe you set ;)
[10:41] <Amaranth> ogra: That's not what the spec defines. It's talking about making the menus do all the stuff alacarte does
[10:42] <Amaranth> alacarte == smeg
[10:42] <ogra> just add your thoughts, the schedule will be done at UBZ anyway...
[10:43] <Amaranth> oh, and just to be honest, 4) people wouldn't have to use alacarte anymore ;)
[10:43] <ogra> if people doing the schedule agree with you, we probably wont have a BOF 
[10:45] <Amaranth> there isn't a comment box and i don't want to kill the layout
[10:48] <ogra> Amaranth, just add it at the bottom of the wikipage ...
[10:48] <ogra> with a "comments" header
[10:48] <siretart> someone willing to change topic? ;)
[10:50] <Amaranth> why? is dapper open?
[10:50] <cevizoglu> whoohoo
[10:52] <ogra> not officially yet, but there was a first test upload it seems :)
[10:52] <Nafallo> i.e. not on archive.ubuntu.com :-P
[10:52] <cevizoglu> aww
[10:53] <Amaranth> soyuz works?
[10:53] <Amaranth> or is it using katie?
[10:54] <daniels> Amaranth: katie
[10:54] <Nafallo> the latest seem to be running both in parallell till soyuz is ready :-)
[10:57] <Riddell> should the topic be changed?
[10:57] <Nafallo> not until archive.ubuntu.com/dists/dapper exists IMHO ;-)
[10:57] <ogra> Riddell, someone officially will do that if its ready
[11:01] <dholbach> good night guys
[11:01] <Nafallo> gnight dholbach :-)
[11:01] <dholbach> night nafallo
[11:12] <jbailey> doko!
[11:12] <jbailey> Long time!
[11:12] <doko> hi
[11:13] <ogra> doko, !
[11:13] <ogra> the damned hostel guys didnt confirm my romm request yet :(
[11:14] <ogra> *room
[11:14] <jbailey> ogra: Do you need me to call them?
[11:14] <doko> ogra: I can ask them, although the rooms seem to be full, I'm in a "mixed" room :-)
[11:15] <ogra> oh
[11:15] <Amaranth> "mixed"? what does that mean?
[11:15] <Nafallo> it's also the kitchen :-)
[11:15] <ogra> grumble ... i'll have to find a park bench and a newspaper then :/
[11:15] <jbailey> ogra: I have a porche and alot of newspaper.
[11:16] <jbailey> Although if you want it, tell me quick - recycling day is tomorrow.
[11:16] <doko> one newspaper isn't sufficient, it's getting cold
[11:17] <ogra> doko, at least knowing if there could be a bed would be nice ... i'd be grateful if you could ask...
[11:18] <doko> will do tonight
[11:18] <jbailey> ogra: I'm sure there's a bed.  It just might already have doko in it. =)
[11:18] <ogra> lol
[11:18] <Amaranth> ogra: But that's still ok, right? ;)
[11:19] <ogra> at least warmer than a benchand newspaper ...
[11:25] <elmo> mdz: what do you want to do about auto-syncs?
[11:27] <mdz> elmo: I want them to start flowing
[11:27] <elmo> mdz/kamion: the infrastructure changes have only been lightly tested, caveat emptor if you choose/need to run any of the scripts
[11:27] <zakame> good morning all
[11:27] <elmo> mdz: ok 
[11:28] <elmo> mdz: I need to go home, but I'll make that happen later tonight
[11:28] <mdz> elmo: sabdfl already talked to you about saving the uploads as test cases for LP, right?
[11:28] <mdz> dunno if you were already doing that, or for how long
[11:28] <mdz> (keeping them for how long)
[11:28] <elmo> mdz: queue/launchpad on jackass ...
[11:28] <elmo> it's been there since before dapper opened
[11:29] <mdz> great
[11:29] <ajmitch> morning
[11:30] <mdz> jbailey: .ca follows the same schedule for DST as .us, right?
[11:30] <jbailey> mdz: This year =)
[11:30] <minghua> mdz: yes, at least until 2007 :-)
[11:31] <ajmitch> jbailey: canadians have to be confusing, don't they?
[11:31] <jbailey> ajmitch: Confusing how?  The US is changing their DST.  One province (Ontario) has said that they'll follow.  None of the others have made an announcement.
[11:31] <jbailey> But for now it's last sunday in October / Firsty Sunday in April
[11:32] <ajmitch> NZDT starts first sunday in october for us :)
[11:42] <hughsie> ogra: ping?
[11:43] <ogra> hughsie, pong
[11:43] <hughsie> ogra: hey, you okay?
[11:43] <ogra> i've seen your mail :)
[11:43] <ogra> yup
[11:43] <hughsie> ogra: bum... and i wanted to surprise you
[11:43] <ogra> heh...
[11:44] <hughsie> i've been learning dpkg....
[11:44] <ogra> you shouldnt have sent it to a public ML then ;)
[11:44] <hughsie> :-)
[11:44] <hughsie> you wanna try?
[11:44] <ogra> dapper is one since some minutes, where is the source pkg ? 
[11:45] <ogra>  /one/open
[11:45] <hughsie> not released yet, i'm still testing it
[11:45] <hughsie> i i'll upload it to sourceofrge
[11:45] <ogra> hey, its a development release, lest get the crack in :)
[11:46] <hughsie> :-) lol, cool
[11:46] <hughsie> what about for breezy?
[11:46] <ogra> we can ask the backports tem as soon as its in dapper :)
[11:47] <ogra> *team
[11:47] <hughsie> cool. nice one
[11:47] <hughsie> i'll upload it now
[11:47] <ogra> cool
[11:48] <hughsie> it wouldn't build for ages this afternooon, until i realised i was deleting the makefile.in's on a make distclean, as opposed to a make maintainerclean and then it worked
[11:50] <Nafallo> ENOPITTI?
[11:51] <ogra> Nafallo, come on its 11:50pm here
[11:51] <Nafallo> ogra: I didn't see him leave :-P
[11:51] <Nafallo> so I was quite surprised :-)
[11:54] <Kinnison> Woohoo one danielstone of uploads
[11:54] <hughsie> ogra: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=133929 -- grab 0.2.8.1
[11:54] <ogra> already ? 
[11:55] <sivang> Kinnison: uploads are already getting in?
[11:56] <ogra> hughsie, i thought you made a soucre deb ? 
[11:56] <ogra> *source
[11:57] <Kinnison> sivang: into katie yes
[11:57] <sivang> Kinnison: ah
[11:57] <hughsie> ogra: <newbie>i made a deb, dsc, a changes and a new tar.gz, is that not cool?</newbie>
[11:57] <ogra> hughsie, oh noo... you added a debian dir to your source tree ...
[11:58] <hughsie> ogra: not cool?
[11:58] <ogra> nope...
[11:58] <ogra> always keep the packaging distinct from the real source
[11:58] <hughsie> ogra: i figured package the stuff, then you only have to change a few lines for ubuntu
[11:58] <ogra> this way people can adjust package specific things without changing the source itself
[11:59] <hughsie> ogra: don't you patch the source already?
[11:59] <ogra> debian might want to package it different, progeny too as well as linspire, knoppix or other debian based distros
[12:00] <hughsie> surely the copyright stuff and docs and control stuff will be 99% the same?
[12:00] <ogra> patching the source from the debian dir is fine... but the tar.gz should always stay untouched... i made such mistakes too in the past
[12:00] <ogra> yup
[12:01] <hughsie> ogra: i can r, the debian bit and re-upload if you like
[12:01] <hughsie> *rm
[12:02] <daniels> btw, I'm doing the traditional vim upload
[12:02] <ogra> make a tgz with the debian dir and send it separately and leave the tgz as claen source ...
[12:02] <daniels> it's already practically done
[12:02] <ogra> cool