[06:30] <Burgundavia> ah shit
[06:30] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, ping
[06:30] <rob^> haha
[06:31] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: edit conflict there
[06:31] <Madpilot> I'm reverting
[06:31] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, we should be good now
[06:31] <Madpilot> I think so...
[06:31] <Burgundavia> who did that?
[06:32] <Madpilot> did what?
[06:32] <Madpilot> I was restoring RootSudo, and setting up RootPrivs as a redirect
[06:33] <Burgundavia> the orginal redirect away from RootSudo?
[06:33] <Madpilot> there was never a redirect from RS to RP, just a link
[06:34] <Burgundavia> it ended up a circular redirect for a second there
[06:34] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: OK, it's all good now, RootSudo is back and RootPrivs is a redirect to RS
[06:35] <Madpilot> I had thought that RootPrivileges was new, but it's been around a while, lurking...
[06:37] <Madpilot> AndrewZajac2 seems to have done the moving, and of course he doesn't have a wiki page or contact point...
[06:37] <Burgundavia> he does actually
[06:37] <Burgundavia> arzajac at yahoo dot ca
[06:38] <Burgundavia> did Andrew move it from RootSudo to RootPrivs?
[06:38] <Burgundavia> I am confused
[06:38] <Madpilot> ... so am I, now
[06:38] <Madpilot> ;)
[06:38] <Burgundavia> it looks like RootSudo just got recreated
[06:39] <Burgundavia> somebody must have moved it to RootPrivs a while back
[06:39] <jsgotangco> whats up
[06:39] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, we had a minor mess with RootSudo and RootPrivs
[06:39] <Madpilot> I think RootSudo was deleted, then restored by Andrew, so we may be blaming him unfairly...
[06:39] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, this kind of stupidity lead the mediawiki devs to put page moves in the history
[06:40] <Burgundavia> a feature that should be ported to moin
[06:40] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: see RecentChanges for the entertainment - Burgundavia and I were editing at cross-purposes for a minute there...
[06:40] <Burgundavia> and moin does not appear to have a undelete
[06:40] <jsgotangco> wiki love :)
[06:41] <Burgundavia> the wiki not appearing to save edits is a major issue
[06:43] <Burgundavia> ok, it does have an undelete
[06:43] <Burgundavia> it is just hidden
[06:45] <Madpilot> OK, here's an oddity...
[06:46] <Burgundavia> hmm?
[06:46] <Madpilot> how often are the Category<Whatever> pages rebuilt for addition/deletions? I thought it was instant
[06:46] <Burgundavia> so did I
[06:47] <Madpilot> check out CatCleanup - WikiGuide is still there - but when you check WikiGuide, the only Category it appears in is Documentation
[06:59] <rob^> have branch and trunk been resynced yet?
[07:00] <jsgotangco> nope
[07:00] <rob^> didn't think so
[07:10] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: ping
[07:10] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, pong
[07:12] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: I've figured out what happened to RootSudo
[07:12] <Madpilot> it wasn't deleted
[07:12] <Madpilot> it was renamed RootPrivs
[07:12] <Burgundavia> ah
[07:12] <rob^> heh
[07:12] <Burgundavia> and who did that?
[07:12] <Madpilot> then AndrewZajac2 built a NEW RootSudo, as a sort of redirect
[07:12] <rob^> this is the kind of page that needs to me moved to our controled wiki
[07:13] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:13] <rob^> s/me/be
[07:13] <Madpilot> 2005-10-23 22:51:06 Mauriciohernande -- a more general and clear name <-- looks like he renamed it
[07:13] <Burgundavia> moving and deleting pages needs to removed from general users
[07:14] <Burgundavia> but splitting the wikis is a bad thing, unless we move all docs
[07:14] <rob^> can't we just do a redirect?
[07:15] <Burgundavia> an interwiki one
[07:15] <rob^> yeah
[07:15] <Burgundavia> that gets nasty
[07:16] <rob^> sounds like a problem with moin
[07:16] <Burgundavia> "good urls never die"
[07:16] <rob^> hence redirect
[07:16] <Burgundavia> ya
[07:16] <Burgundavia> oh, nasty argument brewing over at wikipedia
[07:17] <rob^> the chan?
[07:17] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools/1-Click_Answers
[07:17] <Burgundavia> anyway, I disgress
[07:18] <Burgundavia> I really don't like the idea of splitting the docs
[07:18] <Burgundavia> it hasn't work in the past, with the freezing attempt
[07:18] <Burgundavia> s/work/worked
[07:19] <rob^> really the wiki team need control of the wiki, its kind of stupid otherwise
[07:19] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:19] <rob^> http://www.cafepress.com/lesbianlinux
[07:19] <Burgundavia> it is dumb that anybody can delete or move
[07:19] <Burgundavia> as it has been shown that people cannot be trusted with this
[07:21] <Burgundavia> salut bhuvan 
[08:53] <mdke> morning
[08:54] <rob^> hi
[08:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi mdke
[08:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi rob^
[08:56] <rob^> hmm operating 2 pcs, a laptop and an xbox at the same time is fun
[08:56] <mdke> some crack going on with the wiki?
[08:57] <rob^> apprently
[09:05] <Burgundavia> mdke, both Madpilot and myself trying to fix the same issue at the same time
[09:06] <mdke> ah
[09:06] <mdke> well the crack must have been that there was an issue in the first place right?
[09:07] <Burgundavia> yes, someone moved RootSudo
[09:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
[09:08] <mdke> ooh
[09:08] <mdke> i mean, oof
[09:09] <rob^> does one need a wireless access point to have a wireless network? or just network cards?
[09:09] <Burgundavia> you can do ad-hoc with 2 wireless cards
[09:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> you can have just cards
[09:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> 2+ cards cant you?
[09:10] <rob^> so more then 2 I need an ap
[09:10] <mdke> the guy who moved RootSudo is active on the mailing list, you can tick him off
[09:10] <mdke> he is often in here too, nick of mhz
[09:11] <mdke> although yeah, the name RootPrivileges was better
[09:12] <Burgundavia> regardless, the mover didn't put a redirect in place
[09:12] <mdke> indeed
[09:12] <mdke> hence the ticking off needed
[09:14] <jsgotangco> hmm so mhz did something?
[09:14] <mdke> on the italian wiki we disabled deletion and renaming
[09:14] <mdke> except for admins
[09:16] <Burgundavia> mdke, sounds sane to me
[09:19] <mdke> yeah well the italian wiki does not get so much editing i guess
[09:20] <mdke> if we implemented it on the ubuntu wiki we'd need to set up a deletion/renaming request system
[09:20] <mdke> i'll talk to henrik about it
[09:21] <jsgotangco> ACLs
[09:23] <Burgundavia> that is pretty easy, we just need a page for it
[09:25] <mdke> yeah
[09:27] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, how do you connect with people on linkedin?
[09:28] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do you follow the method that involves you manually entering their email addy?
[09:28] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:28] <jsgotangco> its much faster to do that if you know the person
[09:29] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:30] <jsgotangco> i have a contact that has like 300 people on his list
[09:30] <jsgotangco> heh
[09:32] <Burgundavia> bob2 = Rob Wier, no?
[09:33] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: yes
[09:35] <Burgundavia> http://www.happypenguin.org/show?Warsow
[09:45] <jsgotangco> ahh too bad mako's not coming on UBZ
[09:45] <Burgundavia> holy crap wikipedia has some good mappers --> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Karte_baikal2.png
[09:45] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, no, why not?
[09:46] <jsgotangco> well he said on his blog he's skipping UBZ
[09:47] <Burgundavia> ya, just read that
[09:48] <rob^> grr why are my mp3s playing at twice the speed?
[09:48] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:48] <jsgotangco> because you;re in the future rob^ ....
[09:49] <rob^> according to the clock on the pc I'm three hours into the future too
[09:49] <rob^> wf?
[09:49] <rob^> s/wf?/wtf?
[09:49] <rob^> grr
[09:51] <jsgotangco> haha
[09:55] <rob^> its only doing it in gnome apps
[10:11] <mdke> Burgundavia, ping
[10:12] <mdke> i have an idea
[10:12] <mdke> let's start brainstorming on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterWiki and see if we can make it into a decent spec for some wide-ranging wiki changes
[10:14] <jsgotangco> checking...
[10:15] <mdke> jsgotangco, there  is nothing there
[10:15] <jsgotangco> ahhh ok
[10:15] <mdke> but it is an available spec :)
[10:15] <jsgotangco> wow opera just crashed on gmail
[10:21] <Madpilot> could that spec include things like "move the MOTU/dev/spec pages to a seperate wiki somewhere"?
[10:21] <Madpilot> dev.ubuntu.com or something
[10:22] <rob^> but doesn't that still need to be a wiki
[10:22] <rob^> so yet another wiki to maintain etc
[10:23] <Madpilot> yeah, I know, but would get the actual user docs seperated from the dev docs
[10:24] <mdke> Madpilot, the idea was possibly to separate the user docs by moving those
[10:24] <mdke> corey's idea at least
[10:24] <mdke> leaving the main wiki for all those development activities
[10:24] <Madpilot> yikes... that's a way bigger and messier job than moving the dev stuff
[10:24] <mdke> actually I'm not sure it is
[10:25] <Madpilot> no?
[10:25] <Madpilot> I'd assumed that the doc side of the current wiki was larger, but maybe not
[10:25] <rob^> is going to take a bit of work either way
[10:25] <rob^> and moving to our own wiki means we have control
[10:26] <Madpilot> the other reason to leave the user docs where they are is that people know those URLs already
[10:26] <mdke> Madpilot, i'm not sure, but in any case moving pages is pretty easy with moin
[10:27] <mdke> there are a number of options for the URLs
[10:27] <mdke> anyhow, this sort of thing is what will benefit from some brainstorming on a spec
[10:27] <rob^> just point wiki.u.c to the new wiki, and dev.w.c to the dev one
[10:27] <rob^> err that should be dev.u.c
[10:27] <mdke> rob^, part of my reasoning for moving the docs would be to have them at the same place as the static docs (help.u.c)
[10:27] <mdke> fragmented documentation is bad
[10:28] <jsgotangco> aye
[10:28] <rob^> but won't that mean people will just start new docs on the old wiki
[10:28] <jsgotangco> no extra wikis for me
[10:28] <rob^> ?
[10:28] <rob^> the idea is people can improve and contribute
[10:28] <rob^> I think all we need to do is have normal user accounts limited moreso
[10:28] <mdke> rob^, if we had a wiki at help.u.c it would not be locked down, people can improve and contribute there
[10:29] <mdke> nah, there are more problems than just that
[10:29] <mdke> anyhow, i'll work on the spec for a while, and see if I can convince you
[10:29] <mdke> and myself
[10:29] <rob^> I'll check it out
[10:29] <rob^> setting up moin isn't a trivial task
[10:29] <mdke> it will be set up anyhow
[10:30] <mdke> Madpilot, for an option with regard to the URLs, we tried moving the Italian wiki recently, see e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianSudo for what we did
[10:30] <rob^> and we will need ssh access to the server to properly administer it
[10:30] <jsgotangco> err how do you move between channels in irssi?
[10:30] <mdke> dude
[10:30] <mdke> we have ssh access already
[10:30] <rob^> ?
[10:30] <jsgotangco> yeah
[10:30] <rob^> we do?
[10:30] <mdke> jsgotangco, alt + number or arrow key
[10:30] <mdke> rob^, how the hell do you think all our docs are there?
[10:30] <jsgotangco> well the user at least...
[10:31] <rob^> some asked?
[10:31] <jsgotangco> mdke: ahh nice...
[10:31] <rob^> s/some/someone
[10:31] <Madpilot> mdke: yeah, I saw the Italian changes to streaming past in RecentChanges
[10:31] <jsgotangco> rob^: i have access but i don't use it
[10:31] <mdke> Madpilot, another option would be to use "refresh"
[10:31] <mdke> although that isn't currently active on our wiki
[10:31] <rob^> how does one accquire access to said server?
[10:31] <jsgotangco> just ask mdke  the account...
[10:31] <mdke> rob^, the doc.u.c and help.u.c server is admined by me and henrik
[10:32] <jsgotangco> its just one account really...
[10:32] <Madpilot> mdke: either way, doing it that way puts an extra layer between people and resources...
[10:32] <jsgotangco> well anyway because it was moved, its another ACL
[10:32] <jsgotangco> the last one was with lindoe
[10:32] <rob^> is it your own server or a shared server?
[10:32] <jsgotangco> rob^: serverpronto
[10:32] <mdke> Madpilot, only for the purposes of the old URLs, there is no extra layer once people get used to the new ones
[10:32] <rob^> ah
[10:32] <rob^> ubuntu paying for it?
[10:32] <mdke> yes
[10:32] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:32] <rob^> nice
[10:33] <mdke> jsgotangco, actually I didn't give you a login yet iirc
[10:33] <mdke> you say i did?
[10:33] <jsgotangco> mdke: no the old one i meant
[10:33] <jsgotangco> not the server pronto
[10:33] <mdke> ah
[10:34] <jsgotangco> no rush
[10:34] <jsgotangco> until we have a use for such
[10:34] <mdke> i'll give you logins to the new one. although please don't use em for heavy backup or anything
[10:34] <mdke> what usernames do you want?
[10:34] <jsgotangco> heavy backup? *shudder*
[10:34] <rob^> heh
[10:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: i'll create a chroot in no time :) joke
[10:35] <mdke> hmm
[10:35] <rob^> hmm I just realised I have an mp3 copy of the hackers movie soundtrack..
[10:35] <mdke> well we have 100GB left
[10:35] <rob^> how did that get there?
[10:35] <jsgotangco> 100GB of storage? wow
[10:36] <rob^> overkill?
[10:36] <jsgotangco> well if they buy in bulk that's cheap
[10:36] <rob^> yeah
[10:36] <mdke> that is just the package they offered
[10:37] <jsgotangco> mdke: we can try it for baz & bzr expermentation though
[10:37] <jsgotangco> it won't eat up a lot of space and bandwidth
[10:37] <mdke> guess so
[10:37] <rob^> hey would you all prefer me to just do a one page (ie short) faq guide for xubuntu instead of the ug (as per my email)?
[10:37] <mdke> yes, if that :)
[10:38] <jsgotangco> dunno i don't use xfce..didn't like it
[10:38] <jsgotangco> i'd rather use ion2 than that hehehe...
[10:38] <rob^> its pretty nice on older hardware, gnome like environment that doesn't slow your old pc down 
[10:39] <jsgotangco> yeah anything gtk runs too
[10:40] <mdke> i will try it
[10:40] <rob^> well its kind of gnome like, as in it uses gtk2
[10:40] <mdke> but tbh xubuntu is not high priority
[10:40] <rob^> no, its not
[10:40] <mdke> it is not a "partner" as jerome says
[10:40] <mdke> and it has its own guide
[10:41] <rob^> never said it was..
[10:41] <mdke> unless we see that the guide isn't valid, then i think we should concentrate elsewhere
[10:41] <rob^> well I was thinking of just adding ubuntu related info to it anyway
[10:41] <jsgotangco> well imo rob^ should do as he pleases on xubuntu if he wants too...we can't pin him down to do stuff that interests him :)
[10:42] <jsgotangco> but he's riddled with bugzilla bugs atm :)
[10:42] <mdke> sure
[10:42] <rob^> umm about 10 I think
[10:43] <jsgotangco> wow did trunk shrink?
[10:43] <jsgotangco> its only 180MB now
[10:43] <rob^> yeah either way xubuntu will be low priority, I'd rather see the kubuntu faq guide done first
[10:43] <jsgotangco> compared to the previous 250+
[10:45] <mdke> i think kde upstream is gone
[10:49] <mdke> ok i'm gonna do some work
[10:52] <Burgundavia> mdke, ok, will do
[10:52] <Burgundavia> mdke, night all
[12:17] <rob^> what happen to BetterWiki?
[12:18] <mdke> it is now BetterWikiDocs
[12:18] <rob^> ah
[04:53] <mdke> jbailey, have you made any progress with the merge? can we help?
[04:54] <jbailey> mdke: I didn't, sorry.  Friday got crazy on me, and I'm still settling in from the weekend.
[07:55] <jjesse> slow day?
[07:55] <jjesse> :)
[08:20] <jjesse> hiya apokryphos 
[08:20] <apokryphos> hey
[08:20] <apokryphos> how's it going
[08:24] <jjesse> going well, getting started on KUDOS -> docbook
[08:25] <apokryphos> wow, quite a mission
[08:25] <apokryphos> will be real useful though =)
[08:38] <jjesse> yeah right now i'm looking to see what the difference between the FAQ Guide and KUDOS is, how much we can steal :)
[10:24] <jjesse> what's there something posted to the list about opening in openoffice and saving in docbook format?
[10:24] <apokryphos> why use that when you have Quanta+ and Kate ;-)
[10:25] <apokryphos> (good article on Quanta+ as docbook editor not too long ago: http://dot.kde.org/1124997856/ )
[10:25] <jjesse> i use kate right now
[10:26] <apokryphos> quanta has more features, but has quite a few UI issues
[10:26] <apokryphos> quite a few anti-kde-ers pick it out as a "bloated program", but really it's just featureful, without a perfect UI :D
[10:27] <jjesse> hmm i'll look into it
[10:27] <apokryphos> http://quanta.kdewebdev.org/tutorials/quanta-docbook/quanta-toolbars.png pretty much sums up a lot of the problems; widgets in widgets