/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/10/30/#ubuntu-devel.txt

ograYAY !12:02
Seveastopic too shory :)12:02
sivangogra: but it's using the non launchpad infarst.12:02
Seveasshort*12:02
ograsivang, its open12:03
sivangright :)12:03
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danielsSeveas: 'yes, dapper' was all I wrote12:07
Seveaslol :)12:07
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hughsieogra: debian removed from directory source, i'll re-upload12:07
ogragreat12:08
hughsienow i need to work out how to build the boody thing again!12:08
ogrause dh_make12:08
ograbut use a orig.tar.gz12:08
ograthat contains the plain source12:08
hughsieand how to use the debian files?12:08
ogradh_make creates them for you ...12:10
ograwith dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S you create a debian source package that keeps packaging and soucre distinct12:10
hughsieahh, that's what i needed to know12:11
ograso a debian source package should consist of .dsc orig.tar.gz diff.gz and source.changes file12:11
ograthe diff.gz will hold the debian dir and all patches to the source12:11
hughsiesorry for being think, it's a bit of a difference to rpm12:12
ograyup12:12
hughsie\me fires up breezy...12:13
hughsieogra: take two: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=133929 (bare source)12:15
whiprushwow, new Xorg already. Let the bleeding begin!12:17
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Nafallo:-)12:18
ajmitchwhiprush: just don't run with scissors12:20
hughsieogra: ok quite impressed , dh_make rocks.12:21
whiprushI'm a boring person anyway12:21
ograyup12:21
Treenaksajmitch: jdub does it12:22
ajmitchTreenaks: jdub is a special case12:22
Treenaksajmitch: true, he loves the bleeding edge ;)12:22
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hughsieogra: what do you do with the .ex files?12:29
ograremove or use .ex == example12:29
ograalso use lintian to check the package quality and pbuilder to check the building12:30
hughsieogra: okay, thanks12:30
ograthere is a PbuilderHowto on the wiki :)12:30
hughsiecool12:30
=== Nafallo giggles about archive.ubuntu.com some times have icons and some times not have icons :-)
SeveasNafallo, a.u.c is not a single machine :)12:34
NafalloI know :-)12:36
Nafallothree machines :-)12:36
Nafalloshould still have the same conf one might think ;-)12:36
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danielschrist vim take sa long time to build12:37
dokoelmo: please could you sync gcc-3.3, gcc-3.4, gcc-defaults from unstable, gcc-4.0 from incoming, overwriting the ubuntu changes?12:39
elmodaniels: the clever linking tricks help12:40
danielselmo: i think the buildds are going to hate me for all my x11 lib uploads12:40
danielselmo: the dude generating the tarballs did it on some bleeding edge omgcvs gentoo version of libtool12:41
elmoI think the buildds are bored and don't much care as long as they get something to do12:41
danielselmo: it tests the command length against $max_cmd_length, which doesn't exist in our libtool, and of course, setting a sensible default is for pansies12:41
elmodoko: can you mail?  I'm swamped atm, I'll lose track of IRC12:41
danielsso libX11's link invokes ar a few hundred times, just quietly appending to the archive, for shits and giggles12:41
elmodaniels: dude, that is clever.  that beats vim12:41
danielsit's great to watch, along with the ': numeric expression expected', or whatever12:42
danielselmo: x outsmarts all12:42
danielscombined with libtool, we are an UNSTOPPABLE FORCE of sensibility and forward planning12:42
mjg59daniels: I KILL YOU12:43
danielsmjg59: good morning?12:43
Nafallomjg59: are you going to stream that event? :-)12:43
mjg59Mostly I kill anyone who's ever touched libtool12:44
dokoelmo: ok, will do12:44
danielsmjg59: i haven't touched libtool12:44
danielsmjg59: libtool touches me at night, in very inappropriate places12:44
mjg59See? it's evil12:45
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danielsmjg59: i have never, ever, claimed otherwise12:45
jdubHOORAY FOR DAPPER!12:47
=== Nafallo silently nods to jdub
ograhoary for dapper ??12:47
TMMwoot Dapper!12:47
Nafalloit might even give me x atm ;-)12:47
TMMdapper is going to be a breez(y) to install!12:47
ajmitchmorning jdub 12:47
TMMhey jdub 12:47
ajmitchor whatever timezone you're in today :)12:47
danielsi haven't broken X in dapper.12:49
mjg59daniels: Pls break X in dapper12:49
mjg59We miss broken X12:49
danielsmjg59: i will.  just for you.12:49
ajmitchthanks12:49
zakameIs dapper's repos up?12:49
mjg59No12:49
mjg59It'll be in the topic once it is12:50
=== ajmitch can't wait to dist-upgrade & enjoy the breakage
danielsmjg59: the X server is a complex beast, so it's easy to slip in if (strcmp(username, "mjg59") == 0)12:50
danielsmjg59: (psst: it is)12:50
mjg59Goddamnit.12:50
zakamehaha12:50
mjg59I hate being behind the times.12:50
mjg59Have we opened on Katie, then?12:50
danielsmjg59: well, on jackass at least12:50
danielsmjg59: yes, katie is up and running12:50
danielsi've uploaded > 30 packages so far12:50
mjg59Ah, I just got email12:50
mjg59I bet they're all X12:50
mjg59Are they modular?12:50
=== ajmitch is just waiting for autosyncs to flood my inbox
jdubajmitch: in spain atm12:51
TMMdaniels, and merge r300 so fglrx can me moved to universe :)12:51
ajmitchjdub: great fun, when do you travel over to montreal?12:51
danielsTMM: what do you mean, 'merge r300'?12:52
danielsmjg59: not got to the server yet, got to do new upstreams of everything else.12:52
TMMjdub, you got out of here just in time then, its pouring rain here now :)12:52
danielsmjg59: (well, I'm running the modular server of course, but it hasn't been uploaded yet.  patience.)12:52
TMMdaniels, the r300 dri driver, I don't think it is merged in xorg 7.0 yet12:52
ograhughsie, uploaded the initial package ;) could you add a manpage for gnome-power-info for the next upload ? 12:53
danielsTMM: it has been for quite some time12:53
TMMdaniels, the dri driver as well? I thought only enough was merged for render and EXA12:53
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danielsTMM: dude, look in /usr/lib/dri on a *breezy* system12:54
Nafallohehe12:55
hughsieogra: i've done a source deb12:55
hughsiemanpage for g-p-i on it's way12:56
hughsieplus i need to sort out the /usr/etc stuff12:56
Nafallobaah, never trust google to do the right thing ;-)12:56
NafalloEpson Stylus Photo R300, why does it need dri? ;-)12:56
hughsieogra: lintian isn't bad... i'm quite impressed so far12:56
ograhughsie, /usr/etc ? 12:57
ograhughsie, i dont have any /usr/etc stuff here ...12:57
jdubajmitch: wednesday, but things may change...12:57
hughsieogra: i get a warning, that file-in-unuusal-dir /usr/etc/gconf..12:58
ogranot in my package here ...12:58
hughsiecan you show me your diff. file12:58
danielselmo: link.sh> jesus shit.  that thing is an abomination.12:59
Nafallodaniels: how do I enable r300 then? :-)01:00
danielsNafallo: first you update the kernel to get the drm module, then you update the X server and the Radeon driver to get the DDX bits.  dri is a three-way tangle.01:00
ograhughsie, its your former debian dir copied in a clean dh_make built package ...01:00
Nafallodaniels: dapper will have that love soon enough? :-)01:00
hughsieogra: hmmm, i need toplay more...01:01
ograhughsie, all locations seem fine here, builds fine and runs fine :)01:01
hughsieogra: cool!01:01
danielsNafallo: you'll know about it when it does01:01
hughsiehal cvs would help...01:01
=== ajmitch wanders off for lunch
ograhughsie, dont forget we package for dapper, things are expected to be broken in the beginning... its just important that they are fine at *some* point :)01:02
Nafallodaniels: oki, kewl :-).01:02
hughsieogra: okay, cool01:03
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hughsieogra; we need a new hal release...01:03
ograhughsie, will come :)01:03
ograpitti is sleeping already 01:04
hughsieogra: gnome-power-info manpage being added to cvs..01:05
ograoki01:05
ograwill add it in the next upload ...01:05
Nafalloogra: tomorrow? :-)01:05
hughsieogra: na, i'll release 0.2.8.2 soon, with a few other fixes in a few days01:05
ograhughsie, the package will show up on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gnome-power-manager/ at some point (source and binary) take that as a base  ;)01:06
ograNafallo, not sure... i'll have to care for my travelling stuff tomorrow... 01:06
Nafallooh, right.01:07
hughsieogra: okay, thanks01:07
NafalloI forgot everyone was going away :-P01:07
ograhughsie, seems dholbach got the spec for dapper power management assigned, he'll pobably take over 01:07
hughsieogra: okay, cool. the pmi integration needs some work i think01:07
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=== madsen taps the mic.
ograhughsie, thats a mjg59 task, i'll try to figure out the changes from the lat package and adopt them to the new one ... (or tell dholbach to do it)01:08
ogra*last01:08
madsenTesting, testing... Is this thing on? :-p01:09
ogramadsen, SING !01:09
madsenI'm not sure if this is the right place, but there's a problem with the wacom module.01:09
ogramadsen, bugzila is the right place ;)01:09
ogra*bugzilla01:09
hughsieogra: whats lat?01:09
madsenogra: Well, that depends if it's really a bug or just me being an idiot...01:10
ogra*last 01:10
madsenFor some reason the mousedev module takes control when I plug in my tablet - that b0rks the pressure sensitivity in the tablet. :-/01:10
hughsieogra: the hal package or g-p-m?01:11
madsenSo I was wondering if it's just because I haven't told it not too (dunno how or where I should do that) or if it's actually a bug...01:11
madsens/not too/not to/01:11
khakionioni've got a wacom graphire2 here, can i help?01:15
madsenkhakionion: Hmm, perhaps! I've got the (cheap) Volito though..01:16
madsenkhakionion: Does you graphire work out of the box with ubuntu?01:16
khakionionmadsen: alrighty, well, let me see...do i just check dmesg to see if it loaded mousedev?01:16
khakionionyep01:17
khakionionmadsen: it works out-of-box on hoary & breezy...i dunno about pressure sensitivity, though01:17
madsenkhakionion: Hmm... Well, you can do 'cat /proc/bus/input/devices' and paste me the Handlers= line. :)01:17
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madsenProblem is that the volito "works" but without pressure sensitivity - and that's mousedevs fault... Actually the tablet is just treated as a mouse...01:18
khakionionmadsen: for the "Wacom Graphire3 6x8" (ooh, even better than a Graphire2, heh) the Handlers line is01:19
khakionionHandlers=mouse1 event3 ts101:19
madsenHeh, same thing as here... Then you probably don't have pressure sensitivity working either. :(01:19
madsenmouse1 shouldn't be there at all... I think it's usbhid's fault... I remember seeing something about that on linuxwacom.sf.net...01:21
khakionionhmm01:21
madsenI just hoped I could either configure me out of it or file a bug report and complain until it was fixed. :-p (Someone said: Ubuntu users don't compile, they complain. :-p)01:22
Riddellis uploading to dapper much the same as uploading to breezy?01:23
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danielsRiddell: ...01:24
danielsRiddell: no, we upload srpms now01:24
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RiddellI have no answer to such wit01:25
infinityWhat wit?01:26
infinityHe's being quite serious.  We're Fedora-based now.01:26
infinityNo one told you?01:26
RiddellI think I'm going to become an openSuSE developer01:27
khakionionmadsen: after installing wacom-tools, the command "sudo wacdump /dev/input/event3" shows working pressure sensitivity01:29
danielsthe U is capitalised now, too01:29
hughsieogra: thanks, night..01:29
Riddelldaniels: except when it isn't01:29
madsenkhakionion: Hmm... Interesting... I never thought of checking it that way. :)01:29
ogranight hughsie 01:29
ograthanks as well ;)01:29
sivangogra: you're not going to sleep as well?01:32
sivang:)01:32
khakionionmadsen: i gotta go, but i'll be working on this later01:33
robertjWhat kind of hardware is the wiki running on?01:34
Nafallomoinmoin01:34
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sivangNafallo: that the hardware? :)01:34
khakionionlooks like all that might need to be changed is xorg.conf...dunno what that would mean for usability, though, since changing that involves restarting X, right?01:34
madsenkhakionion: Ok, thanks for the help! :)01:34
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Nafallooops ;-)01:36
Nafallosivang: nice catch :-)01:37
madsenkhakionion: Was that last line for me too?01:38
sivangNafallo: hmm, maybe we can sell moinmoin applicances :) be like google, and it will be based off ubuntu :)01:38
Nafallohihi01:38
khakionionmadsen: yeah, sorry :)01:38
madsenkhakionion: I've already setup a lot of stuff in xorg.conf, but since the system treats the pointing dev as a mouse it doesn't use the pressure sensitivity. :-/01:39
khakionionah, okay01:39
madsenkhakionion: Btw, wacdump shows working pres.sens. for me too, but gimp doesn't...01:39
khakionionmadsen: darn...hmm, okay, i've got some ideas on what to do, but i've got to get a physics test and a calculus test out of the way first. i'll be back on it tomorrow afternoon :)01:40
madsenkhakionion: Hehe, ok. Best of luck then. Don't stress yourself... I'm just bored and wasting my time trying to make the tablet work in the most impossible way I can find... (I think.)01:41
khakionionmadsen: thx...i've been anxious to start helping out w/ubuntu, glad i finally found something relatively unique/doable.01:42
Kinnisonbed methinks01:45
Kinnisonciao all01:45
bob2adios, Kinnison 01:46
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danielsKinnison: g'night01:49
tsengdaniels: is dapper broken enough yet?01:50
=== tseng hides
danielsthe next one to make a dapper being broken joke gets dapper broken with a faked changelog with their name in it01:50
tsenghm01:50
sivangdaniels: at least that would get me some more changlog entries :)01:51
Nafallohehe, 43+ packages and and daniels uploaded all but 2 :-P01:51
tsengsivang: whos counting01:51
danielsand, unless I'm very much mistaken, that's dapper's first NEW source package01:51
sivangtseng: heheh01:51
tsengmkdir -p .maildir/.ubuntu.dapper-changes/{cur,new,tmp}01:52
tsengwe're off01:52
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sivangnight all02:08
hyperactivecrondnight sivang 02:08
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=== robertj ponders the dot mac clone spec
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bddebianHello02:46
ajmitchhi bddebian 02:46
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robertjAnyone wanna help brain-storm on the Ubuntu.Mac spec?02:49
ajmitchrobertj: dotUbuntu? :)02:52
robertjthe best I can think of is TribeDisk02:52
ajmitchhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DotUbuntuRegistrationClient02:53
robertjwith the ability to join "Tribes" to assist you in setting up your TribeDisk, EDS datasources, etc02:53
ajmitchnot sure why I can't find it on the main wiki02:53
robertjajmitch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%2eMac02:53
ajmitchyeah, i saw02:54
robertjajmitch: I was envisioning a communal kerberos and slapd pool02:54
ajmitchthere's existing specs out there with similar goals from UDU02:54
bob2haha02:54
robertjand then for the space you get to grab hosting from davs source including Canonical on a pay basis02:55
robertjbob2: you think kerberos & slapd would choke at that scale?02:55
bob2I'd be amused to see someone try02:55
robertjbob2: my realm has < 5k users so I'm not really one to vauch for capacity02:56
robertjbob2: there are some really honking directory deployments that use kerberos02:58
robertjbob2: I'm actually very curious, could you fill me in?03:01
bob2I've never seen/been involved in a big kerberos deployment03:01
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bob2I've not heard of ones distributed across dozens of locations with hundreds of thousands of users, tho03:01
robertjbob2: the Army does Active Directory if you count that03:02
robertjand err...that's alot of users03:02
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robertj(US Army, sorry)03:02
Nafallorobertj: sweden to soon ;-)03:02
robertjbut I think it's important that there is both an easy to use free service and the option to use local services03:03
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robertjone problem is that gconf doesn't have any mature backend except for XML, and even if it did alot of the services don't store the settings that need to be changed in gconf03:04
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robertjbut for proper integration Gaim, EDS, and half a billion other things should get clued into the change03:05
robertjanother big issue is that SyncServer doesn't have any equivalent I am aware of in Ubuntu03:07
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danielsimendio have done work on gconf-over-dbus for the 77003:15
danielsand nevermind me, misread your question03:15
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Fuji-sanTRULUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!03:23
Fuji-sanFRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!03:23
Fuji-san:D03:23
truluxFuji-san: stop it03:23
NafalloFuji-san: ...03:23
tsengdude03:23
Fuji-sanhi03:23
truluxI had to ban this guy of #ubuntu-hardened03:23
bob2Fuji-san: you've already been banned from two ubutnu questoins for being a gimp03:23
tsengdaniels: can you ban this guy please03:23
bob2oh, 3, then03:23
bob2daniels: oi03:23
ajmitchbob2: almost 403:23
tsengbob2: i kicked him from -motu and he autorejoin'd03:23
Fuji-sani'm innocent untill proven guolty :((03:24
tsengbob2: i had mercy03:24
tsengFuji-san: not really03:24
ajmitchFuji-san: you just proved yourself guilty03:24
truluxFuji-san: you own the record of kicks and bans after pappy- the star destroyer03:24
Fuji-sansorry guys i just want to make friends03:24
bob2Fuji-san: no, you've been shown to be annoying and useless03:24
Fuji-sani'm sorry03:24
bob2Fuji-san: then join #hottub, these channels are for technical discussion03:24
truluxFuji-san: go out and make friends, that will calm you down03:24
bob2and ripping on SuSe03:24
ajmitchtrulux: no, I think that we had some others that managed to get all channels03:24
Fuji-sanbob2 hottub is empty03:25
truluxajmitch: hah03:25
bob2Fuji-san: that's a shame03:25
truluxFuji-san: bad for you03:25
trulux:)03:25
Fuji-sanlolz03:25
truluxlet's stop this 03:25
Fuji-san4 channels03:25
Fuji-sannice 1 tseng03:25
Fuji-sanpeerpressure huh :/03:25
bob2Fuji-san: no, you've just annoyed everyone simultaneously03:25
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danielssorry, was making breakfast03:26
danielsanywhere else I can be useful?03:26
schweebjust keep up with the Xorg goodness :)03:26
tsengi think we got it all03:26
tseng(for now)03:26
Nafallodaniels: more xorg? :-) you're doing a great job on that front already though ;-).03:26
schweebNafallo: I win :p03:26
Nafalloschweeb: mine was longer ;-)03:27
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elmomdz: fyi, auto-sync is/has been running, but it looks like it's going to take all night03:32
bob2I wonder why gdm is running on vt9 now03:33
mdzelmo: ok, thanks03:33
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mdzelmo: where does webmaster@ubuntu.com go currently?03:37
elmohenrik03:38
mdzok, good03:38
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mdzjbailey: do you already have initramfs-tools changes queued to put the final touches on the usplash integration?03:59
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sabdflnight all04:05
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jody_lapGood evening.  Where would I request that the gnumeric version in breezy get updated or patched ?04:23
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jody_lapI'm getting alot of reports upstream of a bug in the 1.5.90 beta version that made it into the release04:23
crimsunjody_lap: after autosync runs to completion, we can probably sync from experimental04:25
Nafallocrimsun: for dapper...04:25
crimsunrather, if a core developer deems it safe, he can ask for such a sync for Dapper04:25
mdzjody_lap: the best thing to do would be to report the bug04:27
mdzjody_lap: be specific about what the problem is, and provide a reference to the upstream bug report(s) (don't just ask for a new version)04:27
ajmitchmdz: just resent f-spot debdiff04:30
ajmitchhopefully this one arrives04:30
mdzajmitch: third try?04:30
ajmitch2nd04:31
bddebianf-spot?  Is that just below the g-spot?04:32
=== bddebian hides
=== seth_k chases
seth_kget back here you04:32
ajmitchdon't encourage him04:32
bddebianHeh04:32
seth_knobody makes a joke that poor and lives :D04:32
bddebianYou know you love me ajmitch :-)04:32
mdzajmitch: nothing04:38
ajmitchhm04:38
ajmitchstrange, since I don't get any bounces from my ISP's mailserver04:38
mdzI also get a few hundred messages per day successfully at mdz@ubuntu.com04:39
ajmitchyes, mail I send to lists gets through04:39
mdzunless the subject was "Wanna be more man? Check this dude" it didn't get marked as spam04:40
Nafalloajmitch: want to try to send it to me?04:40
ajmitchNafallo: address?04:40
Nafalloajmitch: pm :-)04:41
ajmitchyep04:41
ajmitchNafallo: sent04:42
Nafallorecieved04:42
NafalloI'll forward it :-)04:43
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ajmitchhm04:44
ajmitchstill rather strange that it'd get lost twice :)04:44
mdzthe forward arrived fine04:44
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Nafallohehe, my isp told me that port 25 would be dropped when I got upgraded ;-)04:46
=== ajmitch is sending through his ISP's mail server
Nafallothat's what they told me I would have to do aswell.04:47
Nafalloanyway, worked ;-)04:48
ajmitchyeah04:48
Nafalloyay! autosyncs seems to arrive :-)04:48
ajmitchoh?04:48
=== ajmitch hasn't seen any flood yet
Nafallo30 new in that folder :-)04:49
danielsthose aren't autosyncs04:49
Nafallono?04:49
danielsno04:49
Nafallowhat are they then? :-)04:50
ajmitchNafallo: that's daniels going nuts04:50
Nafalloin changes-auto?04:50
mdz...followed by the first batch of autosyncs04:50
ajmitchNafallo: hm, I didn't see that list on the server04:51
jody_lapcrimsun: I'm not terribly clear on ubuntu development.  Is that related to debian experimental or is there an ubuntu experimental ?04:51
danielshm, my mail delivery must be lagging an arseload04:51
ajmitchah, ubuntu-changes-auto, not dapper04:51
crimsunjody_lap: mdz's statement regarding filing a bug was more appropriate04:52
Nafalloehm. did my evolution just hang? :-P04:52
mdzjody_lap: he was referring to debian experimental04:52
mdzjody_lap: ubuntu generally has 1 development branch and 3+ stable releases04:52
jody_lapmdz: please repeat the comment, my connection dropped.04:52
mdzjody_lap: I asked that you file a bug in our Bugzilla with the specifics of the bug that you were referring to04:53
danielspoor katie.04:55
danielsthere's still 49 packgaes plus however many have been autosynced04:55
=== Nafallo agrees with daniels
Nafallo68+ :-)04:55
mdzjody_lap: someone should be able to look at it tomorrow morningish in europe04:56
bob2\sh_away: oi04:58
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jody_lapmdz: done.  Thanks05:08
jody_lapgood night05:08
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Nafallodapper: the free mta stress-test :-)05:21
schweebNafallo: -changes traffic too much for you or something?  try subscribing to LKML :p05:27
Nafallonope, it stills holds up :-)05:28
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danielsfabbione: I WOULD LIKE A WORD05:38
daniels    ../configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --mandir=\$${prefix}/share/man \05:38
daniels                 --infodir=\$${prefix}/share/info --libdir=/etc/X11 $(confflags) \05:38
daniels                 CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"05:39
bddebianUh oh05:43
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=== daniels gets bored of apps, moves on to xorg-server.
Nafallo:-)06:19
daniels(there's still like 40-50 messages that haven't hit breezy-changes.  so much less fun without instant feedback.)06:19
Nafallohehe, I currently get about 20mails/min so... ;-)06:20
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fabbionemorning06:25
fabbionedaniels: do your uploads require a specific building order?06:25
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danielsdon't build libxaw 2:0.99.1-1 or whatever it is06:25
danielsjust skip straight to -206:25
danielsthat aside, no06:25
fabbioneok06:26
fabbionei didn't start the buildd on dapper yet06:26
fabbioneso that's not a problem06:26
fabbioneit will take the latest automatically06:26
danielsmy X uploads are the least of your worries, dude06:26
fabbionei know06:26
fabbionei just wanted to be sure :)06:26
danielsi'd be a little more concerned about the eleventy hojillion packages that just got autosynced06:26
fabbioneehhehe06:26
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Nafallo942 and counting ;-)06:28
fabbioneelmo: can we please remove speedtouch package from dapper completely? Md did remove it from debian too06:28
fabbioneelmo: and he did ask if we could do the same. thanks dude :)06:29
fabbione(if you need an rt, just say so ;))06:29
ajmitchfabbione: funnily enough I still use speedtouch on the old sarge box downstairs06:31
fabbioneajmitch: well it has been removed from Debian for a reason i assume :)06:31
ajmitchyes, it's not needed with kernels >= 2.6.1006:31
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ajmitchbut I haven't got the speedtch module to work successfully for me yet :)06:32
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=== fabbione builds his first dapper package on sparc
=== SloMoSnail is now known as slomo
slomoelmo: can you please sync cli-common from debian/unstable? the ubuntu changes can be dropped and sync-permission by tseng ;)07:00
Nafalloslomo: he said he wanted sync requests on e-mail till things get less to do :-)07:01
slomoNafallo: thanks... good to know :)07:01
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pittiGood morning07:10
bddebianHeya pitti 07:10
dredgmorning pitti07:10
ajmitchhi pitti 07:10
fabbionehey pitti07:11
pittiyay, dapper!07:11
=== pitti uploads his new crack
fabbionepitti: ahaha join the queue :)07:11
pittiwow, I can't beat daniels, though :-)07:12
Nafallomorning pitti :-)07:12
danielsunstoppable.07:12
Nafallodaniels: tsss, auto-changes beats you hard enough :-)07:12
danielsNafallo: auto-changes is cheating07:13
danielsit's using an aimbot07:13
danielspitti: so, um, do we support any of the VNC servers?07:13
Nafallohehe :-)07:13
fabbionepool/universe/c/crack/crack_5.0a-8.dsc07:14
fabbionehey we got even new CRACK!07:15
pittidaniels: hm?07:15
=== Nafallo giggles
pittidaniels: this vino thingy07:15
danielspitti: is it based on the standard X server codebase?07:16
pittidaniels: no idea, sorry07:16
pittidaniels: but it build-deps on many X libraries07:17
pittiso maybe it doesn't duplicate (too much) X code07:17
pittiah, wait, does dapper use LP or the good ol' way now?07:18
Nafallogood ol' :-)07:18
danielspitti: okay, I think we're safe07:18
danielspitti: if the other vnc shite is in universe, then we don't need to do another USN for the software fb core bug07:18
pittiargh07:18
pittiinfinity: I accidentially uploaded the new pkgstriptranslations07:19
ajmitchpitti: phpmyadmin patch uploaded to breezy-security07:21
pittiajmitch: thanks07:22
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HiddenWolfholy hell, people seem to have saved up a few uploads for dapper. ;)07:27
Nafallowhere people is daniels ;-)07:29
HiddenWolfNafallo, just wait till seb wakes up. ;)07:32
Nafallohehe07:32
Nafallo131 uploads and counting from daniels ;-)07:33
fabbionenew redhat cluster suite is up :)07:36
fabbionetoo bad nobody can use it yet :)07:36
danielsthose are just the ones I did yesterday.  i haven't uploaded the ones I've been saving yet.07:36
bob2there needs to be some way to make /etc/apt/sources.list harder to edit for users07:36
Lathiatheh07:36
danielser, s/yesterday/today/07:37
ajmitchbob2: sure, write it in a format like elisp07:37
bob2ajmitch: I was thinking encrypting symmetrically with gpg07:37
ajmitchsame thing07:37
bob2with the pass phrase "Yes I know what I am doing.  If I use backports, I will not whinge to anyone but the backport people."07:37
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ajmitchbob2: but, but, backports are official! :)07:38
=== Lathiat smirks
=== bob2 looks around for backports people supporting broken packages in #ubuntu, and comes up empty
=== Yagisan wonders why they never bitch to MS for "backports"
ajmitchbob2: #ubuntu has beaten all love of humanity out of you? ;)07:40
LathiatYagisan: because they download everything07:40
danielsbob2: -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark didn't even work for everyone07:40
LathiatYagisan: in new, separate versions07:40
ajmitchdaniels: isn't getting 5000+ FPS in glxgears the most important thing?07:40
bob2hahaha07:40
daniels17500+, dude07:40
danielsget with the program07:40
=== Lathiat only gets 1000 :(
Lathiatim totally inadequate07:40
ajmitchoh sorry07:40
daniels(and then, bitch about it looking 'slow')07:40
ajmitchI've got a gf2 mx07:41
Lathiatshould i go buy a new $1600 graphics card now?07:41
=== Yagisan thinks all new users need to acknowledge Ubuntu isn't f*cking Windows
daniels'ITS LIKE MY MONITOR ONLY DISPLAYS 75 FRAMES PER SECOND OR SOMETHING'07:41
dredgit's cos teh packages aren't optimised for i68607:41
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=== Lathiat laughs at dredg
ajmitch-ffast-math all the way07:41
Lathiatdaniels: you should add -ffast-math to xorg07:41
Lathiatand mesa07:42
dredgyou should build them with --with-go-faster-stripes and --omfg-kill-it-in-teh-face07:42
danielsi'll build mesa with -pipe07:42
HiddenWolfLOL07:42
HiddenWolfdaniels, dude, where is the xorg package changelog, I was hoping for some good reading. :)07:43
danielseverything I've uploaded today has been uninteresting, sorry07:43
danielsjust 'New upstream (version|release)', sometimes with 'new versioning scheme (argh|bah|sigh)' appended, sometimes with typos.07:43
ivoksuninteresting?07:43
ivoks300 messages07:44
ivoks:)07:44
danielschangelog-wise07:44
bob2I'm going to make my own internet07:44
danielsand I've only done 132 uploads, not 30007:44
bob2with a no-moron rule07:44
HiddenWolfow, I was getting all excited. :(07:44
bob2then there won't be so many pdfs in my google results07:44
dredgbob2: you're thinking too small07:44
Nafallobob2: squid? :-)07:44
dredgbob2: really. genocide. cleanse the genepool07:44
danielsHiddenWolf: even xorg_6.9.99.1-1 is really dull07:45
HiddenWolfdaniels, I was hoping for something to match the linux-meta "new trust a kernel developer" changelog. ;)07:46
mdzbob2: &as_ft=e&as_filetype=pdf07:46
bob2mdz: you are my new hero.07:47
mdzspeaking of heroes07:49
mdzeveryone remember to bring HALLOWEEN COSTUMES to UBZ07:49
pittiargh07:49
danielswhat's halloween?07:49
HrdwrBoBdaniels: it's where children get abducted by strangers07:49
mdzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween07:49
bob2daniels: don't eat any candy any of them give you07:50
mdzor perhaps hallowe'en in montreal07:50
danielshallowen07:50
mdzin Colin's case, perhaps Pooky Night07:52
danielsisn't pooky some kind of stuffed toy?07:52
mdzpitti: for a moment I misread your postfix upload as as postgresql upload07:54
mdzpitti: and I wondered why postgresql would link to libmysqlclient07:54
pittimdz: hehe, plan of the world domination plan, but ssshhhht :-)07:54
pittis/plan/part/07:55
bob2you should totally make a mysql emulation layer for postgresql07:55
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pefhello08:30
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danielspitti: btw, you win the 'first reverted upload in dapper' award08:37
bob2for?08:38
danielspkgstriptranslations 18 and 1908:40
fabbionewell i win the award for the first uninstallable pkg :)08:41
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tepsipakkiFYI: all of the 650 hoary cd's we got have been dealt out08:43
tepsipakkiwoohoo08:43
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maewhen will OOo 2.0 final make it into breezy, or will it at all?08:48
danielsit won't08:48
fabbionedaniels: doko was planning a -updates afaik08:48
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pittidaniels: yes, I just tossed all the prepared uploads on chinstrap into the queue, but forgot about that one :-/08:53
=== fabbione wins the award for yet another breezy upload :/
danielsfabbione: you've still got a ways to go yet08:54
fabbionedaniels: i probably managed to fix it before katie run :)08:55
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fabbionedaniels: you have 10 hours advantage due to TZ :)08:56
danielshah08:56
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fabbionehmm i guess katie or lists is very busy08:58
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danielsfabbione: katie is slammed.  a bunch of my uploads were between four to six hours latent.09:02
fabbionedaniels: she is catching up.. only 5 minutes delay09:03
fabbionei remember when we did the first sparc import of hoary, it took around 10 hours to make her digest all of it09:03
=== fabbione wonders if MOM is running
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mvohey seb128 09:07
ajmitchhi seb09:07
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fabbionehey seb128 09:07
fabbionehey mvo09:07
mvohey fabbione 09:09
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seb128hi mvo fabbione09:09
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fabbionemvo: any plan to upload apt? ;)09:10
frans-thhi all, i read that the ubuntu next version the drake have a branding derivative09:10
frans-thcan i join the team?09:10
=== fabbione is really looking forward for the 64bit mem allign fix
frans-thhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrandingForDerivatives09:11
mvofabbione: oh, dapper is open :) 09:14
fabbionemvo: yeps :) you are a 1000 uploads late by now :P09:15
ajmitchmvo: you'd better catch up09:15
mvohappens to me all the time ...09:16
zygamorning 09:16
zygadapper is open? :-)09:16
ajmitchzyga: yes..09:16
frans-thdapper?09:17
zygagreat :>09:17
frans-thanyone,know how to join the drapper development?09:17
frans-thes the branding09:17
frans-thzyga?09:17
zygafrans-th: nope, I'm just happy because we can finally move stuff that was 'too late for breezy'09:18
carstenh"#ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development"09:18
frans-thmotu said must this channel :(09:19
highvoltagein Afrikaans, "dapper" means "brave" :)09:20
ajmitchcarstenh: the MOTU team can't really help with derivatives..09:20
ajmitchand he disappears..09:20
carstenhajmitch: hmm, you are right in both cases ;)09:20
=== ajmitch didn't get an answer as to what he was actually wanting to do
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dholbachmorning09:29
ajmitchmorning dholbach 09:30
dholbachhi andrew09:30
seb128Hi dholbach09:30
dholbachhey seb09:30
mvohey dholbach 09:33
dholbachhey michael09:34
mvojamesh: around?09:45
jameshmvo: yeah09:45
mvojamesh: I was playing with pyhton-vte and I wonder how the "child-exited" signal is wrapped. are signals done automatically by the code-generator? it seems to be that the (important) pid and status arguments of the signal are missing when it reachs my python code09:46
mvojamesh: any idea where I should look? define a child-exited signal in vte.defs?09:47
jameshmvo: signals are wrapped automatically based on introspection information09:47
jameshmvo: looking at the header file, child-exited doesn't have any extra arguments09:48
mvojamesh: right, my bad. there are two "child-exited", one from VteTerminal and one from VteReaper. I need the later one, but asked for the former :/09:50
jameshmvo: I don't know if the reaper is exposed through the public API09:51
jameshmvo: you could file a bug report asking for the extra signal arguments09:51
torkelfabbione: ok if I add some things to UbuntuClusters in the wiki?09:52
mvojamesh: I think it is (it's at least documented). I will rather do it myself, upstream wasn't very responsive in the past :/09:52
fabbionetorkel: please add them as comments at the end and i will merge them09:52
torkelfabbione: sure09:52
jameshmvo: note that adding the signal arguments would be an API breakage for things like Python09:53
fabbionetorkel: specially if you are not going to be at UBZ, make your comments extremely detailed and clear09:53
mvojamesh: I think I will add a wrapper for the reaper. does that sound sane?09:54
jameshmvo: I suppose so.09:56
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\shgrmpf10:05
\sh-EDANIELSSPAM10:06
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sivangMorning all10:12
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torkelfabbione: I have added some comments. Not very detailed yet though10:37
torkelfabbione: I will try to add more details later...10:38
=== fabbione checks
pittiajmitch: hmm, phpmyadmin does not build for some reason10:39
fabbionetorkel: FAI is deployment related. there is another spec for that10:39
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fabbionetorkel: and that's not exactly the target for clusters10:39
torkelfabbione: so is oscar10:40
fabbionetorkel: *  How to make sure all nodes are up to date?  ... -> there is another spec for this too.. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/network-wide-updates10:40
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sivangtorkel: Oscar the grouch ?10:40
fabbionetorkel: yes, oscar is a full collection of everything..10:40
fabbionetorkel: we need to strip down what's required out of it. it's only under investigation10:40
torkelfabbione: I added FAI as other deployment tools already was mentioned10:41
fabbionetorkel: *  How to distribute /etc/passwd and/or a.... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/network-authentication10:42
fabbione*  How to handle monitoring of nodes .. this is definetely another spec.10:43
fabbionetorkel: the spec target is to find cluster implementations10:43
fabbioneand in case how to merge them into ubuntu10:43
fabbioneall the other bits like deploying, monitoring etc, if they are not part of the implementation itself -> another spec10:44
ajmitchpitti: oh?10:45
ajmitchpitti: I didn't see a build log last I checked10:45
pittiajmitch: no idea why - we should ask infinity when he is awake again10:46
pittiajmitch: build logs are not published anyway10:46
pittiajmitch: but I get failures emailed 10:46
ajmitchHM10:46
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torkelfabbione: sure, but to be able to merge them into ubuntu you have to be aware of all the other specs. Maybe add an link to them from the cluster spec?10:47
torkelfabbione: feel free to remove/edit my comments if you think they are out of the scope for the spec10:48
fabbionetorkel: yes, they will be linked during the spec discussion10:49
ogramorning10:49
ograpitti, which hal version will dapper get ? g-p-m will need the backend functionallity from the latest i think... thos will obsolete the power-manager package (hal will need a replaces i guess)10:50
pittiogra: I already uploaded the latest and greatest (0.5.4)10:53
pittiogra: but I expect that more 0.5.x versions will follow10:53
ograhmm, i think it 0.5.5 10:53
pittinot sure whether we will get 0.6, though10:53
pittiogra: I didn't see the 0.5.5 annoucement10:53
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ogranope, thats current cvs ... but it will get released during dapper ...10:54
ogra(the controverse hal version with more functionallity :) ) 10:54
pittiogra: I think 0.5.5 should be a safe bet10:54
ograthats the one that starts to actively manipulate stuff afaik10:55
ograat least how i understood hughsie10:55
pittiogra: that sounds like hal getting on the wrong track10:56
ogranope10:56
pittiwe discussed that on the mailing list10:56
pittiand I gave my comments there10:56
ogranot as long as it doesnt get renamed to HIL :)10:56
ograif its only a info layer, be it, but ten dont call it HAL10:57
ogra*then10:57
ograi remember we discussed it here before already ;)10:57
ograand i dont think its the wrong track :)10:57
pitti"HAL is a piece of software that provides a view of the various hardware attached to a system"10:57
pittiogra: making hal a centralized actor that runs with root privs *is* wrong10:58
ograit should also provide a possibility for user interaction10:58
pittiit would become the single point of failure, and prefered (and highly vulnerable) attack vector10:58
pittiogra: no, there should be specialized daemons or at least callouts for that10:58
ogralets not have this discussion again, you wont convince me and i wont convince you and in the end its davidz's call :)10:59
ajmitchpitti: I blame yada for any & all phpmyadmin issues10:59
pittiajmitch: I did not get a FTBFS mail, so I blame the buildds10:59
ajmitchpitti: it's more fun to blame yada10:59
pittiogra: right :-) I try to convince him11:00
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ograheh :)11:00
=== SloMoSnail is now known as slomo
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ogradholbach, the new gnome-power-manager for you to play with for your BOF is in ... have fun with it :)11:04
pittimvo: are you interested in the "hide admin programs for non-sudoers" spec?11:08
\shdamn11:08
mvopitti: a bit, I would like to hide "update-notifier" as well11:09
pittimvo: I'd be interested to write a small program that decides whether the user has sudo rights11:10
pittimvo: but I don't want to mess with the higher levels (the gnome part)11:11
mvopitti: I think a small program is all we need, a lot of work has been done here during SOC (IIRC)11:11
ograpitti, mvo, YAY for that !! its urgently needed for edubuntu ...11:13
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pittiogra: this little backend is a bit delicate and needs suid root, that's why I want to have an eye on it11:14
ograyup, thats fine as long as i get the functionallity :)11:15
ograits very high priority for me...11:15
pittimvo: we just need a small program "user-is-admin" that decides whether the user can suid to root and execute arbitrary programs, and deliver the result in the exit code, right?11:15
seb128pitti: I am, I give some google bounty work to my student to hide the admin stuff to non-admin users11:16
pittiseb128: is there any backend yet?11:16
ograpitti, cant it just read the groups and if admin isnt in the list act like needed ? 11:16
seb128pitti: no, but the GNOME part is done11:16
pittiogra: that only works for the breezy default config11:16
pittiogra: not for warty updates or customized ones11:17
seb128pitti: it's hacky, atm it works on "are you a member of the admin group"11:17
pittiseb128: ah, cool11:17
\shogra: it should be available for all linux distros ;)11:17
pittiseb128: ok, that covers at least 90% of the cases11:17
ograpitti, enough for me ;) edubuntu didnt exist before breezy11:17
pittiseb128: I thought about adding a sudo option that does that, to reuse the already existing sudo code11:17
seb128pitti: remember, we poke you about that with lllmanuelll11:18
mvopitti: a small app like that would be great. prefereable with a argument "can user do a spefic command"11:18
pittimvo: yes, even better11:18
pittimvo: like a sudo --dry-run11:18
seb128pitti: we could use "sudo -l <cmd>"11:19
pittimvo: sudo --permitted, or whatever11:19
seb128pitti: but we need to use "Defaults listpw=never" which is not the current default11:19
seb128or it asks for a pwd11:19
pittiseb128: right, we must avoid asking for a password11:19
seb128listpw=never :)11:19
pittior that, right11:19
pittiseems that almost everything is already theren11:20
pittis/n$//11:20
seb128hum11:20
seb128the ubuntu sudo doesn't has this feature :/11:20
pittiwell, and it would break upgrades11:20
pittia little coding is necessary, I'm afraid11:20
seb128yeah :/11:20
pittimvo: shall we two take AutomatedProblemReports again?11:21
pittimvo: implementing this early could be highly beneficial for stabilizing dapper11:21
sivangseb128: anything I can offer a hand with ? are you talking about users-admin ?11:21
seb128pitti: I really want this debug archive and the automatic debug bt stuff11:21
pittiseb128: me too11:21
seb128pitti: we spend like half of the bug triage ressources to ask for debug backtraces11:21
seb128and to make debug packages11:21
seb128and people don't get the issue again, so never get a good bt, etc11:22
pittiseb128: and in general I have the feeling that breezy's gnome is pretty unstable11:22
seb128sivang: pick any g-s-t bug and fix it :) no, no users-admin11:22
pittiunless I get a second security team member, I won't have too many time for it11:22
pittibut it is necessary11:22
seb128pitti: crashy you mean?11:22
pittiseb128: yes, I got some random nautilus crashes recently, which I could not reproduce11:22
pittithings like that11:22
pittior that gthumb bug when changing to /11:23
seb128sending a backtrace is useful you know :)11:23
seb128right, but gthumb is not a part of GNOME and mvo has fixed the bug11:23
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dholbach_ seb128, pitti: going to upload gthumb in a sec11:24
sivangseb128: but you'd need to have -dbg installed all over to get a meaningful one, no?11:24
pittiajmitch: any reason why you created a new ProactiveSecurityBof page instead of using the old -Roadmap?11:24
dholbach_the changes were to much to get them in before breezy, we'll push it through backports11:24
pittisivang: that's what we want to change11:24
crimsunpitti: something along the lines of http://www.sudo.ws/pipermail/sudo-users/2004-March/001976.html ?11:24
seb128dholbach_: the fix is a one liner11:24
seb128dholbach_: that's a good candidate for -update11:24
mvoseb128: I haven't uploaded it IIRC, should we move it to breezy-updates? 11:25
dholbach_hm, yes might be, but the changes in 2.6.8 fixed quite some other stuff too11:25
sivangpitti: I'm interested in that as well, should I subscribe to AutoProblemReports if not already have?11:25
pittisure11:25
seb128mvo: yep11:25
seb128dholbach_: stop trying to push new versions to a stable distro11:26
pitticrimsun: hm, but doesn't that only decide whether or not the user needs a password?11:26
pittidholbach_: why not just throw the patch into breezy-updates?11:26
dholbach_seb128: that's why i chose backports, we have it now, i don't see why we shouldnt use it11:27
dholbach_pitti: right11:27
crimsunpitti: no, whether the user is qualified to use sudo. The next message in the thread is more explicit: "hoping that there was something in the usage that I was missing with11:27
crimsunsudo that would not prompt me for a password, and would just silently11:27
crimsunsorry11:27
crimsunfail (nonzero error code response) and/or a simple stderr error msg"11:27
ajmitchpitti: I just wanted somewhere clean to start & write up some notes before UBZ11:27
crimsunpitti: ah, I see what you're saying now (RE: tokens)11:29
pitticrimsun: right; -S -v < /dev/null does not make any difference for an admin and non-admin user11:30
pittiajmitch: do you want to lead that and I second? or the other way round? any preferences?11:30
pittiajmitch: I'd rather play Second11:30
ajmitchpitti: doesn't worry me11:30
ajmitchyou'll probably have plenty of BOFs to lead :)11:31
pittiajmitch: I have too much other stuff to do to be able to actively code11:31
pittiyes11:31
ajmitchok, I'll lead then11:31
pittiajmitch: I add you, I'm editting the page anyway11:32
ajmitchok11:32
pittiajmitch: will you add something to the initial spec?11:35
ajmitchyes11:36
ajmitchirc meeting in a few hours for it11:36
seb128meeting for what?11:36
ajmitchubuntu-hardened specs11:36
seb128k11:37
mdkedholbach, around?11:40
danielsfor those that can't wait for NEW, I just bombed chinstrap:~daniels/tmp/dapper/ at the archive.  have at it.11:40
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dholbach mdke yes11:41
Keybuktricky decision11:41
mdkedholbach, query11:41
Keybukam going to reinstall my laptop ... do I go for breezy, or do I play it dangerous and put dapper on it? :p11:41
mdkeboth11:41
fabbioneKeybuk: you already asked :) go for breezy11:45
fabbioneKeybuk: pointless to ruin your spare time at UBZ fixing your lappy ;)11:45
ograhow many hours is dapper old ? 12 ?11:45
dholbachless i guess11:46
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fabbioneogra: probably..11:46
=== ogra thinks Keybuk loves the risk :)
fabbionewith at least a 1000 pkgs11:46
ajmitchthat's why we have LVM11:46
fabbioneajmitch: ehehhe11:46
KeybukI lurve the disk11:46
Keybukuh, risk11:46
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Keybukarrrrgh11:50
KeybukFirefox has opened a movie11:50
KeybukI now have to be very careful to note which web pages I have open, and what form contents havent been saved11:50
Keybukbecause it's going to crash when I try and move off this page11:50
=== Keybuk criess
DizietI wasn't aware of this bug ...11:51
ograprobably a dapper bug :)11:51
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KeybukDiziet: it's entirely consistent11:52
Keybukif the totem video thing opens11:52
Keybukfirefox crashes11:52
TreenaksKeybuk: I have that too.. on all kinds of videos11:52
TreenaksKeybuk: mpegs, theora, divx, etc.11:52
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DizietHmm.  Similar to 14882, perhaps.  If that could be said to be coherent enough for things to be similar to it.11:54
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infinitypitti : !11:59
pittiHi infinity 11:59
infinitypitti : You uploaded pkgstriptranslations with the distaddfile change? :/12:00
\shwow...the syncs are flying in...the uploads are spamming my inbox...great12:00
infinitypitti : Oh, then reverted it. :)12:00
infinitypitti : Yay.12:00
pittiinfinity: yes, sorry12:01
infinityNo harm done.12:01
pittiinfinity: I just uploaded all my stacked .changes files12:01
pittiinfinity: can you please have a look why phpmyadmin doesn't build?12:01
pittiinfinity: (breezy-security)12:01
Diziet(Why is it possible for a plugin to crash the browser, anyway?)12:02
infinityDid it fail?12:02
pittiinfinity: no, I did not get any mail12:03
infinityNope, me neither12:03
MithrandirDiziet: because it's dlopened and run in the browser's address space?12:04
=== infinity goes to find it.
Dizietmith: What a ridiculous way to do things.12:04
=== ajmitch only got the accept mail for phpmyadmin
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MithrandirDiziet: how would you rather do it?12:05
=== infinity waits for rothera to upload crap...
infinitypitti / ajmitch : Anyhow, it build fine, just hasn't uploaded (yet)... Tracking that down.12:07
ajmitchinfinity: thanks12:07
DizietAny way that protects the browser from a buggy plugin.  It's not like there aren't loads of ways of doing that.12:07
ajmitchthere goes my chance to blame yada again12:07
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infinityHrm, that went fine.12:09
infinityajmitch : As it turns out, you're just impatient.12:10
ajmitchinfinity: surely not12:10
=== ajmitch uploaded a few hours ago :)
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ajmitchI was just told the build failed12:10
infinityYeah, pitti's just trying to make me look bad. ;)12:11
ajmitchheh12:12
pittiinfinity: to the contrary, I just want to demonstrate the world how quickly you can solve all kinds of buildd problems12:12
pitti:-)12:12
=== infinity laughs.
infinityI'm not even awake yet, either.12:13
=== infinity bows.
infinityTHank you, I'll be here all week.12:13
ajmitchwhat timezone are you in now?12:13
fabbioneinfinity: i think amd64 buildd is not uploading?12:13
infinityajmitch : Location, or sleep pattern?12:13
ajmitchinfinity: location12:13
slomopitti: did you test the mplayer fixes on both distris?12:13
infinityfabbione : Which one? :)12:13
pittiinfinity: you know the famous scene from Star Trek where Scotty needs 8 weeks for repairs?12:13
\shdapper update *harhar*12:13
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pittislomo: testing is your responsibility :-)12:14
infinityajmitch : Melbourne, +10... Sleep pattern, no idea.12:14
fabbioneinfinity: probably all of them.. if there is one going..12:14
ajmitchheh12:14
pittislomo: I just looked at the patch12:14
fabbioneinfinity: i can only see ppc and i386 pkgs coming down via rsync12:14
kamstrupIs pygtk broken in Breezy?12:14
infinityOh, yay.  Go me.12:14
ajmitchkamstrup: not that we've heard12:14
slomopitti: bah... ok, then i will upload on monday ;) need to create warty and hoary chroots...12:14
kamstrupYesterday morning I start getting "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'CAPI'"12:14
infinityI didn't re-enable the buildd user's crontab after I stole my buildds back from Kinnison. :)12:14
infinityLa la la!12:14
kamstrupwhenever I import gtk12:14
fabbioneinfinity: ahahahha12:14
pittislomo: well, if the patch works on breezy, it will work on warty and hoary, too, right?12:15
ajmitchkamstrup: you've been installed anything extra in that time?12:15
ajmitchoh dear12:15
ajmitchmy english is going downhill rapidly :)12:15
kamstrupajmitch, yes and no...12:15
kamstrupI installed some stuff on my box at home....12:15
slomopitti: yes, it should... but there's a remaining risk imho ;) the stuff builds fine on breezy (even the warty/hoary packages) but i don't have any pbuilder chroots for hoary and warty yet12:16
kamstrupI figured I broke something, but I tried it on my uni-box just now...12:16
kamstrup-- never done anything else than dist-upgrading on it...12:16
kamstrupand now12:16
pittislomo: right, you should test if it builds12:16
kamstrupmikkel@smallpox:~$ python -c "import gtk"12:16
kamstrupTraceback (most recent call last):12:16
kamstrup  File "<string>", line 1, in ?12:16
kamstrup  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 37, in ?12:16
kamstrup    from _gtk import *12:16
kamstrupAttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'CAPI'12:16
pittislomo: but testing whether it *works* is probably enough to do it on one releaes12:17
ajmitchkamstrup: sounds more like an #ubuntu question, it doesn't happen on a standard install12:17
ajmitch& CAPI related things seem to be ISDN12:17
slomopitti: ok, will do on monday ;)12:17
kamstrupthis *is* a standard install12:17
\shkamstrup: 12:18
\shshermann@nc6000-laptop:~/pbuilder/etc$ python -c "import gtk"12:18
\shshermann@nc6000-laptop:~/pbuilder/etc$12:18
kamstrupI tried to get someone one #ubuntu to help me, but not much luck12:18
\shnothing12:18
=== ajmitch is probably wrong about isdn though :)
kamstrupThis freaks me out...12:18
\shkamstrup: new default install of breezy12:18
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ajmitchhi sabdfl 12:22
kamstrupajmitch, sh: One last thing and I'll stop buggin you :)12:23
kamstruppython -c "import gtk; label = gtk.Label ('Hello world'); win = gtk.Window (); win.add (label); win.show_all (); gtk.main()"12:23
kamstrupIf this works for you I go shut my trap :)12:23
seb128works for me12:23
=== ajmitch also
=== mvo too
kamstrupwell, must be me then... Which is a good thing :)12:24
=== zyga is back from work :-)
sabdflhey all12:28
jsgotangcohey sabdfl 12:29
jsgotangcomoin12:29
sabdflmoin moin! gearing up for montreal...12:29
jsgotangconice12:29
=== jsgotangco dies in envy...
DizietMorning.12:30
Kamionok, thank christ I arranged for dapper-changes mail filtering a few days ago12:30
fabbioneKamion: ehehhe12:31
mjg59I so need to set up dynamic DNS12:31
fabbionepoint12:32
fabbionei should set ip over dns12:32
Lathiathehe12:33
DizietThere's no space in the spec template for `other versions of this same kind of thing'.  AKA `related'.12:35
\shmoins sabdfl 12:37
\shwoo..my first build with new dapper pbuilder ,-)12:38
Lathiathehe12:39
Lathiatcool12:39
Kamionwhich is a bit useless since dapper isn't debootstrappable. I'm fixing that now ...12:39
Dizietmjg59: dynamic.greenend.org.uk ?  /info/dyndns.text.12:39
dholbach merci, Kamion 12:39
\shkamstrup: pbuilder-breezy create -> cp breezy-base.tgz dapper-base.tgz -> pbuilder-dapper update ,->12:39
\shaeh kamion12:40
mjg59Diziet: Nah, I want to tie it into DHCP so the HUGE PILE OF LAPTOPS have consistent DNS12:40
DizietOh, I _see_.  Have fun.12:41
Mithrandirmjg59: that's easy enough to do.  I think it12:41
Mithrandir's documented too12:41
KeybukKamion: that's where verp-based delivery comes in handy12:46
Kamionjbailey: hope you noticed that initramfs-tools got autosynced from Debian ...12:46
Keybukit's resilient to jdub randomly subscribing you to ultra-high-traffic lists :p12:46
ajmitchKamion: that sounds like a recipe for disaster12:47
MithrandirKamion: ew, that's suckage. :-(12:48
=== dholbach won't reboot anything :)
ogradholbach, you actually *run* dapper ? 12:49
tsengdholbach++12:49
ajmitchogra: you mean you don't? 12:50
dholbach:))12:50
ogracrzy guys12:50
=== ajmitch only has a pbuilder setup so far :)
\shhahaha...12:50
KinnisonKeybuk: verp-based delivery?12:50
tsengi was about to debootstrap12:50
\shready to break kubuntu dapper ,->12:50
ajmitchtseng: dist-upgrade from breezy will be the only way12:50
KeybukKinnison: ie. I'm subscribed as scott-ubuntu-changes@netsplit.com, and have a delivery rule for that which explicitly puts it in the right folder12:51
tsengajmitch: i know.12:51
jsgotangcocrazy12:51
KinnisonKeybuk: aah12:51
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KinnisonKeybuk: I do that based on the List-Id :-)12:51
jdubgood morning freedom lovers12:51
KeybukKinnison: that doesn't work when jdub subscribes you to the new list ... see above12:51
tsenggood morning less perky jdub 12:51
MithrandirKinnison: Keybuk has it all hacked into his qmail crack.12:51
Keybukyou get 160 new mails in your inbox that fell through your filters :p12:51
ajmitchhey jdub 12:51
pittiHey hey jdub 12:51
ograjdub, already switched to dapper ? 12:51
MithrandirKeybuk: another fix is to beat people who subscribe you to random lists.12:52
KeybukMithrandir: yes, sadly that didn't stop him doing it *again* this time :p12:52
ajmitchyay, 404 errors on everything when I try a dist-upgrade12:52
MithrandirKeybuk: you didn't beat him well enough. :-)12:52
KinnisonKeybuk: List-Id:.*-changes@lists.(ubuntu|canonical)12:53
\shlets wait for katie12:54
jdubogra: heh, no12:54
jdubtseng: mmm, still sick12:54
jdubKeybuk: dude, i will keep doing it as punishment for your lame procmail and mta skillz12:55
Keybukjdub: I don't use procmail12:55
jdub(but did fall into my cunning trap!)12:55
jdubEXACTLY!12:56
\shthere is nothing better then have server side imap filtering ,-)12:56
ajmitchjdub: you didn't subscribe everyone to ubuntu-changes-auto? 12:56
jdubnein12:57
fabbionejdub: wouldn't be much easier to just have ubuntu-changes@ instead of a list per release?12:57
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\shhehehe...jdub learns german...very nice :)12:57
Diziet`Brainstorm ideas for making Ubuntu a fun and exciting server platform' ?!12:58
Robot101lol12:58
Dizietfabbione, have you been eating those mushrooms again ?12:58
ajmitchDiziet: security holes are 'fun & exciting'12:58
jsgotangcomuch fun than quake?12:58
\sh"Running DoS Attacks randomly from Ubuntu Server install to radom internet hosts like microsoft.com, apple.com or ebay.com, to nag some sysadmins, this is not in main"01:00
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Seveas\sh, it's been proposed :)01:01
\shKids, don't do this at home ,-)01:02
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Seveas./1337-ddos-tool --duration=1week www.microsoft.com01:02
Seveas:p01:02
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fabbioneDiziet: dude.. why don't you read WHO did open it and ask the same question to mdz?01:04
fabbioneDiziet: anyway that one is mine :)01:05
fabbioneDiziet: so keep your hands off :P01:05
LathiatDo i have to have my key signed before it'l be allowed for universe upload?01:05
fabbioneLathiat: better if you do01:06
fabbionespaeking of which01:06
Lathiateh, just i can't until i get my passport, which wont be for a while01:06
Lathiatas in a month or more01:06
fabbionedid we plan a keysign party at UBZ?01:06
=== spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbioneLathiat: are you coming to ubz?01:06
Lathiatfabno01:07
Lathiatfabbione: no01:07
fabbioneok01:07
Robot101can someone fix irssi so it recognises magic keypresses in the cases when they're not the only character returned from read()? :)01:07
LathiatRobot101: its there for a reason01:07
LathiatRobot101: its paste detection01:07
Lathiatand it happens because my session locks up01:07
Lathiatbecause the I/O on this machien is locked to hell01:08
Lathiatso irssi locks up a bit when flushing its logs out01:08
Robot101no, its broken on low latency links01:08
Robot101er01:08
Robot101high latency01:08
mjg59High01:08
LathiatRobot101: you mean high liglatency01:08
Lathiatsee just happened then :)01:08
Robot101if I can type fast enough to make it think I'm pasting, it's fucked01:08
LathiatRobot101: no01:08
Robot101>1 character a time does not imply a paste is occuring01:08
LathiatRobot101: it works on how quickly characters come in in succession01:08
jdubfabbione: for some reason, we decided against that - don't quite remember why off-hand01:08
Lathiatand if your ssh locks up for a second01:08
Lathiator irssi does01:08
jdubfabbione: oh, because you want to know which release an upload was for01:09
Lathiatall your characters come in at once01:09
Lathiatso it looks like a paste01:09
Lathiatit could possibly be made a little less sensitive01:09
jdubfabbione: for instance, i've had emails to warty and hoary changes lists in the last few days01:09
fabbionejdub: ahhh so that's why it's written in the .changes :)01:09
Robot101Lathiat: yes, it's buggy01:09
LathiatRobot101: its not buggy01:09
LathiatRobot101: its just a result of tryign to guess things01:09
jdubfabbione: we could make it more obvious in the subject, but this seems to have worked so far01:09
Lathiatit could be 'tuned' to be better01:09
Lathiatso its less 'buggy' in more circumstances than not01:09
fabbionejdub: ok01:09
Robot101yes it is, sending literal tabs that the user has typed is a bug01:09
Lathiatbut theres the flip side, of being not sensitive enough to detect some smaller pastes01:10
LathiatRobot101: its *not* a bug01:10
LathiatRobot101: its paste detection01:10
Robot101even if it's the result of a poor heuristic it's still a bug01:10
Lathiatin past mode, it sends tabs literally01:10
Lathiat*paste01:10
Lathiatalong with most other control codes01:10
Lathiatthe bug is just that the paste detection is sensitive to too small strings which are often caused by temporary packet drops and/or/ program freezes01:10
jdubseb128: oh man, now i want to run dapper!01:10
Robot101the resulting behaviour where I type la<tab> and this gets sent over IRC is a bug. :)01:11
LathiatRobot101: right, but the *bug* isnt that it prints tabs literally01:11
Lathiatthats just a sysymptom01:11
Lathiatim waiting for irssi2 :)01:11
Robot101oh this depends on how you define bug :)01:11
Lathiatwhere i can attach a local client01:11
Lathiatand it automatically picks up all my sessions and servers over 1 port01:11
Lathiatand puts the windows and scrollback back hwo they were01:11
Lathiatthat == win01:12
jdubinfinity: ping01:12
Lathiati mean you can use irssi proxy but its ugly and you have to keep up with change  to servers you make, etc01:12
\shLathiat: it's calleed dircproxy?01:12
Lathiatfabbione: so, what can i do about my key issue?01:12
Lathiatnot being able to upload for the first month ro two of dapper is goign to kill a large patch of contributions01:12
fabbioneLathiat: do you live close to any developer?01:12
ajmitchLathiat: surely you've got people in perth & some ID?01:12
Lathiatfabbione: jamesh01:13
Lathiatfabbione: but i have no id01:13
Lathiatno drivers license, no passport yet01:13
fabbioneLathiat: no ID at all?01:13
ajmitchLathiat: get a drivers license ASAP :)01:13
fabbioneLathiat: sorry, without ID ... nothing i can do01:13
Lathiatajmitch: its on my todo list :)01:13
Lathiatfabbione: exactly, hence asking whether i really need it signed to be uploadable01:13
\shLathiat: u r not living in a cave, have a beard and you're real name is not usama? ;)01:13
fabbioneLathiat: well the point is that there must be a way to identify you as person01:13
\shs/you're/your/01:13
fabbioneLathiat: without ID you don't even exist :)01:14
Lathiati have a birth certificate01:14
Lathiatbut people tend to reject that sortof thing01:14
fabbioneLathiat: it's useless without a pic01:14
Lathiat(no photo)01:14
Lathiatfabbione: right01:14
fabbioneexactly01:14
Lathiati have nothing with a photo01:14
jameshfabbione: yet it can be enough to obtain photo ID ...01:14
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Lathiatfabbione: this sort of thign is a real bitch for younger people01:15
Lathiatfortunately im getting a passport soon to goto lca2006 in jan01:15
jameshLathiat: get an 18+ card01:15
Lathiatjamesh: im 17 :)01:15
fabbionejamesh: well you know as much as i do that gpg key sign is also based on trust between people.. if you trust Lathiat, you can sign his key01:15
fabbionecertainly i am not going to without an ID01:15
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fabbionegiven that would be the first time i will ever meet him01:15
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jameshI know Lathiat as "that guy who was harassing Linus at LCA2003"01:17
=== ajmitch doesn't feel like flying to perth to sign a key, even though he's met Lathiat
=== Lathiat smirks
ajmitchthen he was 'that ipv6 guy' at lca200401:17
stubThe authentication server is going down in 11 minutes which means the wikis will be in read only mode. Downtime is expected to be 30 mins.01:17
ajmitchoh goody, an RFP for pqm in debian01:18
=== ajmitch retitles
fabbionesiretart: igor is going back in the rotation as we speak01:23
siretartfabbione: cool! :)01:23
fabbionesiretart: ehhe01:23
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infinityjdub : pong.01:24
jdubinfinity: mysql 5 by default in dapper?01:24
fabbionejdub: what did you smoke today? ;)01:25
fabbionewe don't even have 4.1 in main01:25
infinityjdub : No, 4.101:26
ajmitchfabbione: but 5.0 has been blessed today :)01:26
infinityjdub : 5.0 isn't ready.01:26
KamionGAH, GAH, GAH, GAH01:26
Kamionhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/no-more-devfs01:26
smurffabbione: so? If gnome can get in with a week's notice, surely 6months for a stable mysql should be OK ;-)01:26
jdubinfinity: mysql dudes seem to think 5.0.5 is01:26
Kamion"As of Ubuntu 5.10, the Ubuntu installer relies on devfs, which is a deprecated Linux feature."01:26
Kamion*no it doesn't*01:26
fabbioneKamion: uh.. didn't you add that one?01:26
Kamionno01:26
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infinityjdub : Colour me crazy, but I don't tend to trust MySQL upstream.01:26
fabbioneKamion: ah ok...01:26
infinityjdub : I'll look into it, though.01:27
fabbioneKamion: i did ask to be added as drafter01:27
=== jdub colours inside the lines
Kamionwe should stop using devfs *paths*, but that's staggeringly low priority01:27
fabbioneKamion: just kill it01:27
jdubinfinity: ok, i'll cc you on email01:27
fabbioneKamion: well take into account that .14 has no devfs at all01:27
fabbioneKamion: can d-i cope with that? i assume yes01:27
Kamionfabbione: who cares? the installer doesn't01:27
fabbioneKamion: ok01:27
ograKamion, ah, come on, its an easy to solve BOF then .... low hanging fruit :)01:27
=== fabbione doesn't
jdubinfinity: (sorry, 5.0.15)01:27
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stubsave your wiki pages. Going into read only mode any minute.01:28
Kamionogra: no, I'm annoyed that the specs page implies that I didn't do something which I did nearly a year ago; and I'm not excited about more BOFs :P01:29
ograyes, its rather windfall then ...01:29
ajmitchKamion: so you can move it to implemented already :)01:30
infinityjdub : I'll evaluate it and see if it's doable.  It would further my ReducingDuplication spec to promote 5.0 to the default and kick the rest out, so we'll see if it's actually viable.01:31
jdubinfinity: what's your ubuntu address?01:31
infinityjdub : I suspect the first couple of months of 5.0 GA will be bumpy, so we'll see.01:31
infinityjdub : adconrad01:32
jdubta01:32
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jdubnew poll on the fridge01:45
jdub"Dapper Drake is a... a) Duck! b) Dragon!"01:46
Lathiathaha01:46
fabbioneahaha01:46
pittijdub: that was unavoidable, wasn't it...01:46
Treenaksjdub: did you get my mail re: video time on Love Day?01:46
ogravoted01:46
=== pitti added the 5th vote
jsgotangcoi like duck just to coincide with the bird flu scare...01:47
=== Treenaks 4
=== jsgotangco hides
mdkeyou better all be voting duck01:47
=== mdke shakes his fist
maswanducks are good01:47
Treenaksducks are food!01:47
maswanI managed the second vote even, before someone voted wrong. ;)01:48
Lathiatand in the first quarter DUCK IS IN THE LEAD01:48
Lathiatonly 9 votes in...01:48
Treenaks6/3 now01:48
=== fabbione sighs
jdubTreenaks: mail to me?01:48
Treenaksjdub: yeah01:48
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Nafalloduck!01:49
maswanhttp://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/bilder/20050706-Ute/index.html?view=IMG_5222.JPG01:49
maswansee? ducks are cute01:49
jdubTreenaks: i got your mail to sounder01:49
jdubTreenaks: and some pgp signing stuff01:49
mdkemaswan, nice01:49
ogramaswan, do you have any statistics about edubuntu iso downloads ? 01:50
Nafallomaswan: is that CC-licensed so that ogra can tell ubuntu-artwork about it? ;-)01:51
Treenaksjdub: hm, I sent you  another mail after that01:51
Treenakslet me check my server logas01:51
ograNafallo, why me ? 01:51
maswanogra: http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/01:51
Nafalloogra: you are active there :-)01:52
maswanNafallo: Hmm.. Ok. Now it is. ;)01:52
Treenaksjdub: see pm01:52
\shlol01:52
ograNafallo, i'm there, but far from being called active ;)01:52
maswanogra: that doesn't seem to list edubuntu though. :/01:52
\shI see sip4-qt3 build ok...but don't have a dapper-changes mail..01:52
ogramaswan, yes, just noticed01:52
jdubmaswan: er, wow, some interesting comparative stats there01:53
maswannote that those lack the redirected isos01:54
ograat least edubuntu it jumped to place 48 on distrowatch fro the last month :)01:54
ogras/it/is01:54
maswanwe will be putting in the stats from the redirect hosts in a while01:54
pefwill OpenOffice.org2 be bakported to Breezy ?01:55
Nafalloogra: anyway, I sent the link to the mailing-list ;-)01:58
ografine :)01:59
ogra\sh, did you use dapper as distro in the changelog ? 01:59
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\shogra: no ;) 02:00
ajmitch\sh: time to break that muscle memory ;)02:00
\shogra: I have a katie mail, but no dapper mail, but I see the source already build on the buildds 02:01
\shajmitch: the question of ogra was (IMHO) more rethorical02:01
siretartdo we already have merge bugs for packages requiring merging from debian?02:01
ajmitch\sh: I know, but I've got to break the habit ;)02:01
siretartI cannot find them in bugzilla02:01
Kamionsiretart: no02:01
ogra\sh, probably daniels fault :) he's keeping listserver and buildds to busy02:01
ajmitchsiretart: probably not yet02:01
\shsiretart: MoM is not running 02:01
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Kamionogra: oh come on, there are far more autosyncs than X uploads ...02:01
ogratrue :)02:02
\shogra: it's build cleanly..but I think it's daniels fault to spam the mailserver and mailman ,-)02:02
ograKamion, but the autosyncs dont spam my nbox ;)02:02
ogra*inbox02:02
\shogra: u r not subscribed to ubuntu-changes-auto ?02:02
ogranope02:02
\shogra: u should..it's healthy and fun...and u see that your postfix + cyrus imapd 02:03
ograi look at the archive if i look for something02:03
Nafallothe auto-changes are done already, no?02:03
\sh+ spam assassin and virus checker is working 02:03
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\sh-EANNOYED  two random evo crashes in the last 3 mins02:11
mvo\sh: upgraded to dapper already :P ?02:12
\shmvo: no...bug is known upstream..."threading for beginners" problem ,)02:12
Seveasdapper-changes@ is stressing my evo too :)02:12
\shmvo: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31779002:13
TreenaksSeveas: that's why I use mutt ;)02:13
=== mvo pats his mutt
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Seveasactually it's the auto-changes list :)02:13
=== \sh switches back to kmail which "just works (tm)"
=== dholbach gets auto-changes as a digest :)
\shdholbach: sissy ,)02:14
\shhmmm02:14
\shshermann@server3:~$ w 14:39:54 up 157 days, 20:00,  1 user,  load average: 0,19, 0,11, 0,0902:14
\shit's only a little inc of load...nothing serious..02:15
ajmitchnice version for xserver-xorg-input-synaptics02:15
infinityOh, c'mon.  People whining about -changes stressing their mail clients should try getting build logs for a day.02:16
infinityajmitch : Yeah, I already gave him shit for that. :)02:16
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infinityajmitch : He was like "seriously was the only thing I could think of that was higher than really"02:16
ajmitchhah02:16
infinityajmitch : And I said "what about 'rel' or 'release'?" ... "Oh."02:16
\shinfinity: all sissies ,-) they all don't know what's good for them ;)02:16
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ajmitchhello doko 02:17
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infinityTotal 1398 package(s) in state Needs-Build.02:19
infinityChrist, autosync day is PAINFUL.02:20
Nafallohihi02:20
Nafallothat's ~half of what's uploaded?02:20
ogralo doko02:22
ajmitchit'll hopefully settle down by ubz02:23
infinityOh, it'll settle in a day or so.02:23
pittiseb128: I think you could be interested in subscribing to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gstreamer-audio-backend02:23
infinityIt's just the initial sync that sucks, cause there's a backlog of new versions, ongoing syncs after that are fine.02:23
pittiseb128: I dumped that part of my brain into a spec and I have some ideas, which we should discuss at UBZ02:23
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=== fabbione starts the packing dance
=== Kinnison doesn't know that one
Kinnisonfabbione: you'll have to teach me that dance in Montral02:24
ograpitti, i'm vers intrested... i need a networked sound architecture for edubuntu ... i thought of a gstreamer trnasport for that 02:24
ogras/vers/very02:24
pittiogra: feel free to join :-)02:24
ograi'll do ;)02:24
pittiI hope that spec subscriptions count in the scheduling02:25
fabbioneKinnison: jump, yell and scream randomically around your bag, that's exploding for -ETOOMANYUNDERWEAR02:25
=== dholbach -> lunch, getting ca$, dogwalk
Treenaksfabbione: just don't wear any02:26
Treenaksfabbione: --> problem solved02:27
ograpnts off ?02:27
ogra*pants02:27
Treenaksogra: hey, it's called Love Day for a reason, right?02:28
ograheh02:28
Nafallo:-)02:29
ajmitchTreenaks: and it's UbuntuBelowZero for a reason, too :)02:29
Treenaksajmitch: yeah, so you have an excuse ;)02:29
Treenaks</offtopic><ontopic>02:30
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dokoogra: ping02:31
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ogradoko, pongedipong02:33
dokoogra: did you make the reservation?02:34
ogradoko, i mailed info@ as the reservation page says...02:34
ogradoko, no answer so far02:35
Treenaksogra: where?02:35
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ograTreenaks, dokos hostel02:35
Treenaksogra: the Auberge Alternative?02:35
ajmitchogra: I like your release schedule suggestion about NEW02:35
dokoogra: ab wann?02:36
ograTreenaks, nope, thats my fallback02:36
Treenaksogra: that's my primary :)02:36
ogradoko, wednesday02:36
Treenaksogra: confirmed & all02:36
mjg59Kamion: Fresh Breezy install, none of my partitions have been automounted02:36
ograTreenaks, i'll move to the hotel on sat.... its only for the three days i'm not at the conf02:36
=== Keybuk glares at evolution ... get OFF the futex!
KinnisonKeybuk: but it loves the futex02:37
ajmitchogra: you arrive in montreal quite early?02:37
KinnisonKeybuk: it loves it *LONG* time02:37
Keybukmjg59: yeah, that's known ... it only works if you go through the manual bit02:37
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ograajmitch, 4pm on wednesday02:37
ajmitchyes, quite early :)02:37
ograajmitch, to have some days to look around and see something... and recover from travelling as well02:38
Treenaksogra: 4pm on wednesday? you should be leaving now then?02:38
mjg59Kamion: Ah02:38
ajmitchgood plan02:38
ograTreenaks, ??02:38
Treenaksogra: tomorrow = wednesday02:38
Treenaksoh wait02:39
ograTreenaks, my flight goes at 2pm from frankfurt ... 02:39
Treenaks4pm not 4am02:39
Treenaks*kicks self*02:39
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Treenaksogra: oh it's only a 2hr flight ;)02:39
mjg59Kamion: Also, do you want information for identifying more recovery partitions (and what special options they need in order to boot)?02:39
ograTreenaks, yes :-D02:39
Treenaksogra: my flight takes 2 hours from London ;)02:40
Treenaksogra: and 5 minutes from Ams -> London :)02:40
ograTreenaks, cityhopper to london ?02:40
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ograwith the small 2 engine prop plane ? 02:41
Treenaksogra: no, it's a connecting BA flight02:41
ograah02:41
Kamion  * Diagnosed why partition automounting isn't working in the02:42
Kamion    auto-resize case (method and acting_filesystem files not copied over02:42
Kamion    to the new partman device directory). Not yet sure why or how to fix02:42
Kamion    it.02:42
Kamionmjg59: ^-- from my activity report log02:42
Kamionmjg59: recovery> sure02:43
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mjg59Kamion: Ok, cool02:44
mjg59Kamion: I filed a bug about the Dell one (which doesn't need anything special to boot). I'll let you know about the Toshiba one (which needs unhiding in order to work)02:45
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seb128jdub: ah ah :)02:48
seb128pitti: will do, thanks02:48
pittiseb128: I think we can make this truly rocking02:48
seb128how so ?02:48
seb128fix dmix to work everywhere and use alsasink? :)02:49
pittiseb128: that should be the default02:49
pittiseb128: the ALSA upstream guys want to hear bug reports about hardware where it doesn't work02:49
pittiand they gave me some hints for debugging02:49
pittiseb128: but we should automatically fall back to esd if dmix doesn't work02:49
pittiseb128: I have some ideas in my head how to do that02:50
segfaultwhat app runs at planet.ubuntu.com?02:50
pittiseb128: it needs some gstreamer hacking, but it is not Ubuntu-specific, so maybe upstream even adopts it02:50
mdkesegfault, planetplanet.org02:51
mdke(i think)02:51
seb128pitti: gst0.9/0.10 have working autosinks now02:51
pittiseb128: "auto" means?02:52
seb128pitti: but I don't know how they work, they are supposed to automatically pick the best option for you02:52
segfaultmdke: thanks02:52
pittiseb128: even better02:52
pittiseb128: maybe there is nothing left to do for us then :-)02:52
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ografirst we need to get rid of esd in gnome, dont we ?02:53
seb128jdub: gstreamer 0.10 for dapper doable?02:53
pittiogra: we should leave it as a fallback02:53
ograsgh02:53
ograsigh02:53
pittiogra: at least as long as alsa doesn't work everywhere02:53
Treenaksseb128: that would ROCK02:53
=== ajmitch would love to see esd die quietly
pittiogra: but we want to change the default gstreamer sink to alsa where it works02:53
ograpitti, yup... but still02:53
seb128ajmitch: need to fix alsa for that :)02:53
pittiogra: esd merely running is not the pain - it's *using* esd02:53
sabdflhttps://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nomination-mjg59-2005/02:54
sabdflyay02:54
sabdfllooks much better02:54
sabdflhas everyone participated in the mjg59 poll?02:54
=== ajmitch looks
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ajmitchyes 02:54
ograyay for typography :)02:54
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ajmitchlooks much much nicer02:54
LathiatKeybuk: hahaha @ your sounder post02:55
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rob^^^bwahah, it did make it to the fridge poll03:04
Kinnisondragon!03:04
=== rob^^^ votes Dragon as it is quite obvious that fantastical creatures with long lives should be the basis for stable releases
mdkeerm03:05
mdkeyou know full well it's a duck03:05
mdkeany attempt to argue otherwise will be take as some weird Aussie inability to speak english03:05
Kinnisonaussie?03:05
mdkerob^ is aussie03:05
rob^^^sorry, US here03:05
mdkeoh sorry, another rob03:05
Kinnisonand UK here03:06
mdkedamn that is confusing03:06
rob^^^oh03:06
jbaileyKamion: Eh, really?03:06
jbaileyHmm03:06
=== mdke retreats
=== jbailey can always pull the breezy source to get the missing bits.
robertjahh better03:06
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robertjThere needs to be a Duck Season/Dragon Season wallpaper now ;)03:08
Kamionjbailey: no "ubuntu" in the version so autosync wasn't inhibited03:08
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jbaileyKamion: Ah, okay.  I had assumed it checked the .orig.tar for sanity (or the .tar.gz)03:09
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Kamionjbailey: nope, it's purely on version03:13
jbaileydoko!03:13
jbaileyKamion: 'kay.  I wanted to make it non-native for Dapper anyway, to make syncing with Debian easier (since otherwise we're racing version numbers.  I hate the recent Debian policy change that says you can't have - in native package versions GRR)03:14
Kamionthat's not a recent change03:14
KamionI remember bugs about that from 199703:15
smurfKamion: didn't debian start actually enforcing that just recently?03:15
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Kamionlike I say, there've been bugs about it since 1997, and that's always been the policy. it's possible that ftpmaster got a bit stricter about new packages with that problem, but otherwise no03:19
mjg59Why do we never manage to ship with working a11y?03:20
smurfAh, right, that bit was in an ftpmaster's what-we're-checking-NEW-stuff-for announcement03:20
mjg59seb128: gok refuses to start if installed on a clean system03:20
Lathiatmjg59: heh03:20
Lathiatperhaps it needs to go on a list of things to check pre-release03:21
seb128mjg59: what is it saying?03:21
mjg59seb128: "Registry not found"03:21
mjg59On a terminal03:21
smurfmjg59: I assume it's because all the testers have dirty systems :-/03:21
mdkemjg59, known bug03:21
mjg59It fails silently if started graphically03:21
mdkei attached a backtrace today03:22
mdke#1374603:22
mjg59In fact, where's atk-bridge?03:22
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mdkei think it is a missing dependency03:23
mjg59Yeah, it's missing at-spi03:23
mdkesurprising that bug wasn't picked up in time for breezy03:23
seb128no03:23
ajmitch2403:24
seb128it's not surprising, if you want to have a bug noticed assign it to somebody working on the package03:24
seb128or Cc it03:24
seb128s/it/him/03:24
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mdkewhen I said "picked up" i didn't mean to imply any blame seb128 03:25
seb128I know03:25
seb128I just say why it has not been fixed03:25
mdkeyup03:25
seb128it's assigned to somebody03:25
seb128so out of the radar of other people03:25
mdkeyeah i noticed that03:26
seb128we have enough work to read the bug assigned to other people03:26
seb128s/to read/without reading/03:26
mdkewill you take that bug now?03:26
mdkemaybe it is a candidate for an update?03:26
seb128I'll give it to dholbach who has stepped for a11y stuff03:26
seb128yeah03:26
seb128dholbach:#13746  for you, need a Depends on at-spi, candidate for -update, thanks :)03:27
HiddenWolfseb128, it should be perfectly safe to grab a few debs from dapper, right? Rhythmbox and such.03:30
mdkethanks seb128 03:30
seb128HiddenWolf: I'm not sure with the xorg changes03:30
seb128mdke: np, thank you for pointing it03:31
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HiddenWolfseb128, that's why I just want the few debs, not dapper itself. :P03:31
seb128if you can install them without triggering the new xorg go for it03:32
seb128I don't know if the shlibs have changed and force it03:32
ograseb128, is there a way that we can make gnome-settings-daemon happy with two simultaneous logins of one user on the same machine in dapper ? currently the second login with the same user doesnt get settings at all..03:32
ogra(i.e. somehow tie it to the DISPLAY variable or something)03:33
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seb128ogra: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94049 maybe ?03:35
ogras/two/two or more/03:35
ograseb128, yay, cool... its a big prob for some internet cafes running ltsp with th same user all over the place, thanks a lot :)03:36
seb128np03:36
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\shonly to be sure, that i don't have a problem: toolchain is broken now, right? (at least gcc/g++/cpp)03:48
seb128elmo: please sync gnome-doc-utils03:55
infinity\sh : It is?03:56
infinityThat was quick...03:56
\shinfinity: well...actually I can't compile some g++ stuff anymore...cpp (>=4:4.0) == 4.0.2-something but 4.0.1-something is going to be installed ,)03:57
\sh15:14 < \sh>   gcc: Depends: cpp (>= 4:4.0.2-1) but 4:4.0.1-3 is to be installed03:57
\sh15:14 < \sh>        Depends: gcc-4.0 (>= 4.0.2-2) but 4.0.1-4ubuntu9 is to be installed03:57
infinityOh, joy.  gcc-defaults got synced.03:58
\shyeah...time to go home...03:59
\shlaters 03:59
Kamionfor anyone thinking of merging them, I've got the lsb/lsb-release revamp half-merged - it's rather complicated and requires us to keep up with a bunch of changes, though, so I won't finish them today04:06
Kamion/etc/lsb-release is moving to base-files, which will require base-files to take over lsb-release-udeb, etc.04:07
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infinityKamion : Does that mean the lsb-release package will get shuffled too, or will it still contain that one binary, just not the conffile?04:08
Keybukjdub: http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/04:09
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Kamioninfinity: the lsb-release binary starts to come from the lsb source rather than its own source, and will just contain the binary not the conffile04:09
KamionKeybuk: hmm, what happens when I move a conffile from one package to another with Replaces: and simultaneously change its contents? will I get a conffile prompt?04:10
KeybukKamion: mayyybe04:10
KeybukI think that's ok, if they haven't changed the conffile04:11
Kamionif dpkg doesn't go looking for the conffile info in Replaced packages, it should04:11
Kamionif people are silly enough to change /etc/lsb-release, they should get a conffile prompt :)04:12
Keybukhmm, I don't think it does check04:13
infinityIf we get a prompt when it's not changed, that's going to be 12 kinds of broken.04:13
KamionI can leave /etc/lsb-release in the lsb-release package until dapper if necessary04:13
infinityKamion : What's the rationale for moving it?.. Just want all release-specific stuff in one place?04:14
Kamioninfinity: yeah04:14
Kamionit's the stated intent of the Debian lsb maintainer, so I was going to go with that unless we had a good reason to do otherwise04:14
Kamionspurious conffile prompts are a good reason :)04:14
infinitySpurious conffile prompts are hell.  If that can be fixed/avoided somehow, then moving the file makes sense, I guess.04:15
Dizietkamion: Replaces isn't relevant.04:16
KamionDiziet: should it be?04:16
DizietNo.04:16
Kamionwhy not?04:16
Kamionif I want to move a normal file from one package to another, I use Replaces04:16
DizietUm, because it is always right to do the thing that you want.04:16
KamionI'd've thought that the same would go for conffiles04:16
DizietReplaces just lets you avoid the conflict.04:16
DizietYes.04:16
Kamionoh, you mean dpkg should look for the conffile md5sum records etc. throughout all of the status file and ignore what packages they're associated with?04:17
DizietWhen the new package takes over the conffile (whether this is allowed due to Replaces or due to --force-overwrite isn't relevant) then dpkg should take the old hash and conffile ownership and move it to the new package.04:17
Kamionah, right04:17
DizietWhenever a file is overwritten, the file ownership is transferred.04:17
KamionThat's fine by me, as long as it actually does this :-)04:17
DizietThis used to be somewhat broken.  Just a mo.04:17
DizietThis is related to Debian 108587 and (U. bugzilla 16133).04:19
DizietBut that bug only shows up if the two packages conflict (or there's some other reason why the old one is removed first).04:20
DizietAnd anyway I fixed it.04:20
DizietI don't remember any bug in this area when the file is taken over during upgrade.04:20
DizietAnd I think this will have been one of the tests I did when I fixed that bug.04:20
Kamionall right, I'll test it when moving the conffile from lsb-release to base-files, then04:21
Kamionthanks04:21
DizietRight.04:21
DizietNP.04:21
DizietIf you have any strangeness, do let me know.04:21
Kamionwill do04:21
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mvoJaneW: you created "SmallerUpdates", do you mind if I add something here? debian #128818 is implemented in the apt in debian/experimental04:28
siretarttiffany?04:30
mvosiretart: yes04:31
jbaileyhttps://www.ubuntu.com/ is giving me a bad proxy.  Anyone else seeing it?04:41
elmoit'll be back up momentarily04:41
jbailey(I think my ISP has a transparent proxy, but I thin khttps should bypass it)04:41
Znarljbailey : It's being worked on.04:41
jbaileyCool, I don't have to report it.  Thanks! =)04:41
fabbionehey elmo 04:41
fabbioneelmo: i am packing the luggage here... do i need to bring the AP with me or not?04:42
elmofabbione: if you can do so without causing yourself inconvenience, sure04:42
pittiah, I also have a spare AP if necessary04:42
ograme too04:42
jbaileyI can also bring mine. =)04:43
pittielmo: do we need more? I have an 11mbit one here04:43
fabbioneelmo: no problem, i think.. if there is an empty bit in the bag i will add it04:43
pittielmo: can you please sync postgresql-7.4 and postgresql-8.0?04:44
elmopitti: pls send mail, I have to run out RSN04:44
elmopitti/ogra/jbailey: we don't _need_ more, but it wouldn't hurt to have spares/more, but only if it's no inconvenience to you04:44
ograoki..04:45
pittiok04:45
fabbionenow nobody is going to bring one04:45
fabbionewanna bet? ;)04:45
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Simirafabbione : when do you leave?04:47
ografabbione, bah... already in the bag04:47
fabbioneSimira: tomorrow morning around 5am04:48
fabbioneogra: ok.. than bring your.. i will keep mine at home04:48
Simirafabbione : that early? It doesn't start until monday, does is? We leave on saturday, anyway.-04:49
fabbioneand i should seriously consider to really finish to pack04:49
fabbioneSimira: yes, but i have 2 days of holidays there to look around04:49
fabbioneso it will be tomorrow fly -> 2 days of relax -> saturday04:50
Simirafabbione: Sounds nice. you should finish packing,  then. :-) I'm off now, so have a nice trip. See you there ;)04:50
fabbioneSimira: sure :) thanks and take car3e04:50
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JaneWmvo: go ahead...04:53
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Amaranthyay, upgrades04:57
=== Amaranth prepares to start crying
mvoJaneW: thanks04:59
sivangdholbach: are you doing the distro-policy-tracker BOF?05:01
dholbachsivang: i signed up for it, yes05:03
dholbachseb128: will look at it05:03
seb128dholbach: thanks05:03
sivangdholbach: I would like to work on this as well, what should I do ?05:04
sivangdholbach: (I proposed the spec based on something mdz requested)05:04
dholbachsivang: we can spec it together and see how it works out, working on it together doesn't exclude anybody05:05
sivangdholbach: ofcourse , cool05:05
=== lamont-away flys sunday
lamont-away(conflicts on saturday, means I miss the bulk of ubuntu-love day, which sucks.)05:06
ogralamont-away, you come ?05:06
lamont-awaysi05:06
ograwohooo !!05:06
ogra:)05:06
lamont-awaytravel days are 30 oct and 6 nov05:06
pittiHi lamont-away! Looking forward to meet you again05:07
ogramissing haloween at home ... ?05:07
lamont-awaynot missing the teenager's halloween party on sat evening though...05:07
lamont-awaythat'd be the conflict05:07
lamont-awayabout the only pegan holiday I do anything for is Christmas.05:08
smurflamont-away: Stocked up on sweets yet?05:08
lamont-awaywife did last night05:08
smurfHalloween -- every dentist's cash cow / nightmare ;-)05:09
lamont-awayah - just call it by it's correct name: samhain... :)05:10
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smurflamont-away: true05:11
ogradholbach, can you make sure the distro-policy-tracker will also cover doc decisions like moving around about ubunt etc ... ?05:11
ogra*ubuntu05:11
ogra(that'd be a nice enhancement)05:12
dholbachit's nothing coded yet, not even specced yet :)05:12
dholbachbut yes, i'll keep it in mind05:12
ograthanks :) 05:12
ograjust to avoid surprises 2 weeks befor release :)05:12
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YokoZarWine 0.9 Beta just came out about 30 mins ago.  I'm going to put together the Ubuntu package.  ETA on the package will be 4 hours, since I need to finish D/Ling, compiling, and going to class for the day.05:18
YokoZarAfter that it'll be available on the WineHQ website and we can discuss the future role of Wine on the mailing list ;)05:19
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sivangogra: doc decisions are condisered distro-policy ?05:23
ograsivang, as long as they affect derivatives (kubuntu/edubuntu/a11y-buntu) they should be covered in the policy05:24
sivangogra: if you're talking about where docs are placed, and can be found and/or registered against various docs db programs (like scrollkeeper) then it does, otherwise I don't think it has anyting to do with distro policy05:25
mdkehe is05:25
sivangah ok :)05:26
ograsivang, for me the last minute change of "about ubuntu" two weeks before release generated some work i wasnt aware of the change and having it in a centralized policy document where i could look it up would avoid this in the future :)05:26
ogra(indeed its not about doc contents, only about doc handling/plcement)05:27
sivangogra: ah, then I read your last sentence wrong. That is its acutal purpose. Furhter more, as I see it , it should also not allow addition changes to the policy it maintains after a determined period of time as well, so you'll never have weird surprises05:28
ograyou wont avoid them completely i guess... but minimizing would already be a big help05:28
sivangogra: noted, I may add it to the BOF ideas then05:29
ograthat'd be nice, thanks05:30
ogragrumble grumble.... why does editing a spec from my speclist not drop me off to my own speclist afterwards, but to the global one ...05:33
mjg59Keybuk: I just booted a system and my wireless interface didn't come up.05:34
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HWolfwho maintains grub in ubuntu?05:37
Kamionvarious people, depending on the problem05:37
Amarantheveryone, who touched it last05:37
Lathiatjust blame it on seb12805:38
Lathiatgrub bugs are gtk bugs afterall05:38
HWolfIt's just there's a bunch of homeless grubby bugs in launchpad. :)05:39
Lathiatah05:39
seb128no, not me05:39
Lathiatjust dont assign them to ubuntu-dev :)05:39
=== HWolf looks innocently at seb128
KamionHWolf: we'll hunt them down when we switch over fully from bugzilla05:40
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HWolfKamion, better to do it before the switch, to keep things clean, right?05:41
KamionHWolf: doesn't matter05:42
Keybukmjg59: was your wireless interface configured by the installer?05:42
Keybukie. in /etc/network/interfaces05:43
mjg59Yes05:43
Keybukok, does /etc/iftab match /etc/network/interfaces ?05:43
Keybukor have they been flipped around05:43
mxpxpodpitti: ping05:43
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mjg59Keybuk: Looks good05:46
mjg59 /etc/network/interfaces has hotplug eth0, and the only auto reference is lo05:47
Keybukright05:47
Keybukand iftab says eth0 is which MAC ?05:47
mjg59The wireless05:47
Keybukis there an eth1 as well?05:47
mjg59Yes05:48
Keybukok ... now look at ifconfig -a ... what interfaces are there?05:48
mjg59eth0, eth1, lo and sit005:48
Keybukand do the MACs match etc/network/interfaces ?05:48
Keybukuh, sorry, match /etc/iftab05:48
mjg59Yes05:49
Keybuksodomy non sapiens, then05:49
Keybukhas it been completely ignored by the boot sequence, and not even plumbed?05:49
mjg59Looks like it05:50
mjg59I'm guessing the hotplug event got lost somewhere?05:50
infinityDoes restarting hotplug after boot magically make it work?05:50
mjg59What happens if eth1 gets loaded first? How does the hotplug event get generated?05:50
mjg59Or, rather, what happens if my wireless device (eth0) is the second network device that hotplug loads?05:50
infinityKeybuk : Is coldplugging getting a complete revamp with 2.6.14 and the new udev anyway?05:50
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Keybukthe uevent (today's fashionable name for hotplug events) would've been totally and utterly  lost05:51
Keybukbecause it would happen while the initramfs was running05:51
Keybukhotplug should've still picked up the network card05:51
mjg59Ok05:51
Keybukthere's a bug where the kernel allocates the cards in the _opposite_ order to the installer05:51
mjg59I'll reboot soon and see what happens05:52
Keybukso the installer says eth0=wireless, eth1=wired05:52
Keybukbut the kernel on a normal boot says eth0=wired, eth1=wireless05:52
Keybukand that goes a bit wrong05:52
mjg59I /think/ eth0 was wireless on install05:52
Keybukinfinity: yes, in theory we'll regenerate the uevents when we start udev in the initramfs, and do _something_ to remember to trigger the userspace rules when userspace is ready05:53
KeybukI'm not totally sure yet05:53
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mjg59Keybuk: Ok, it seems repeatable05:55
Keybukmjg59: try swapping the iftab rules around; and adjust network/interfaces appropriately05:56
Keybukie. make eth1 your wireless and eth0 your wired05:56
Keybukand see if it comes up that way05:56
mjg59Running /etc/init.d/hotplug start results in it starting05:56
Keybukyes, that is what I'd expect05:56
Keybukthe problem is that we _can_ swap interfaces reliably, just not during coldplugging05:56
pittiRiddell: here?05:56
Riddellpitti: hi05:56
Keybukonce swapped, if it comes up, it's that problem05:56
Keybuk(you can also solve it, paradoxically, but adding eth1 to the hotplug thingywotsit)05:57
pittiRiddell: do you know about any plans to drop arts in favor of something else?05:57
Keybukactually, no, scrub that05:57
Keybukyou can't05:57
Riddellpitti: it'll be dropped for KDE 405:57
Keybukyou do need to swap the iftab lines around05:57
Riddellpitti: suse have patches to get of it for KDE 305:57
pittiRiddell: maybe you are interested in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gstreamer-audio-backend, for the KDE counterpart05:57
pittiRiddell: what's the replacement? ALSA direct?05:57
Riddellpitti: I already signead up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GstreamerAudioBackend  :)05:58
Riddellpitti: kdemm (a thin API), but I'm not sure what that outputs to05:58
pittiRiddell: ah, cool; however, you should rather subscribe to the LP page05:58
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Keybukmjg59: I'd be willing to bet that your laptop has a ipw2200 in it05:58
pittiRiddell: I just talked to Mark and mdz, and it seems that the LP spec page is the source for scheduling the BoFS05:58
mdz-phonecorrect05:59
mdz-phonethe wiki pages should not even contain this data05:59
pittimdz-phone: it's probably cruft from copying/reusing UDU specs05:59
=== pitti cleans up his specs
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mdkei think some specs were created before that regime was implemented06:01
TMMhi all06:01
TMManyone good with the python gnome bindings? :) I'd like to embed a gnome-terminal into a pyglade app, can someone point me to docs or examples please? I can't seem to find any06:02
infinityelmo : If you're around, I need apache_2.0.55-3 synced (we misfired and got -2)06:03
seb128TMM: use python-vte06:04
siretartomg. madwifi-ng is introducing yet another command for configuring wifi parameters :(06:04
TMMseb128, ah thanks06:04
seb128np06:05
smurfIf I want a proposed Sarge update of one of my packages to be considered for breezy-updates -- ask for sync, upload directly, or upload with s/sarge/breezy/ ?06:05
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TMMseb128, "If you actually want to use the widget to get work done, you06:06
TMM  should probably be using gnome-terminal." 06:06
TMMseb128, very encouraging... :)06:06
smurfTMM: Nobody prevents you from dupicating all of g-t's features ;)06:07
Lathiatsmurf: in general, sync, but im not sure when it comes to -updates06:07
Kamionsmurf: send mail to mdz with a diff of the proposed update06:07
Kamionit should only fix whatever's necessary, and it should be versioned appropriately for breezy-updates06:07
Kamioni.e. breezy <= breezy-updates <= dapper06:07
TMMsmurf, lol :) it doesn't need too much06:07
smurfKamion: Umm, ITYM "breezy < breezy-updates" ;-)06:08
Kamionsmurf: well, I was considering breezy-updates to be identical to breezy if there was nothing in it, but if you want to look at it that way instead, sure06:10
KamionI wouldn't attempt a sync to breezy-updates personally06:11
KamionI don't think we have the propup stuff from Debian in our katie installation to make the resulting contents of dapper be sane06:11
mjg59Keybuk: Sorry, phone call06:12
mjg59Keybuk: Swapping eth0 and eth1 works06:12
mjg59Keybuk: It's actually a 2915 rather than a 2200, but yeah06:13
Keybukright06:13
Keybukso what happened is the ipw drivers used to sleep for $SMALLNUM after sending a user-space request for firmware06:13
Keybukand userspace nearly always wasn't fast enough, so you ended up with a duffed driver06:14
Kamioncan we make ntpdate use ntp.ubuntu.com rather than ntp.ubuntulinux.org? the domain grates on me06:14
Keybukso they fixed that by actually moving the "once the firmware is loaded" stuff into a bottom half06:14
Kamion(and ntp.ubuntu.com exists)06:14
Keybukbut that means the kernel is free to do anything else, like load other drivers06:14
mptdoko: By "looks like the same spec URL cannot be used for two specs :-/", did you mean the Launchpad URL, or the Ubuntu wiki URL?06:14
Keybukso what happens is the kernel loads ipwblah first, then the internal one06:15
Keybukbut the internal one finishes first and gets eth006:15
mjg59Keybuk: Unfortunately, it's sort of necessary that these machines work correctly after boot...06:15
Keybukthis doesn't seem to affect the installer ... I guess there's something different about the way it plugs hardware06:15
Keybukso that's why the eth0/eth1 need to be swapped06:15
Kamionnot all modules are available from the start; ipw2200 is probably udpkg'ed later than the internal one (which might be in the initrd, even)06:15
KeybukKamion: yeah, that's another possibility06:16
mjg59Keybuk: So, is there a nice easy fix?06:16
Keybuknow obviously the userspace shouldn't fall flat on its face when faced with having to swap the names of eth0 and eth1 around (which it has to do)06:16
Keybukwe did some fixing for that in breezy and actually did make it successfully swap them06:17
mjg59This is stock Breezy 06:17
Keybukas you can see, because you have an eth0 and eth1 that are the same as the installer thinks they should be06:17
Keybukthe trouble is that coldplugging then fouls up06:17
mjg59Hmm06:17
Keybukbecause it was coldplugging eth0, which suddenly became eth1 under it06:17
Keybukand both coldplugs end up doing "ifup eth1"06:17
Keybukthis is because network coldplugging is done by name06:17
mjg59Fun06:17
Keybukwe found this reasonably late in the breezy process, and I decided that a ground-up rewrite of that side of hotplug wasn't exactly a stellar idea06:18
Keybukinitramfs broke the world06:18
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pittihi trulux 06:19
wasabi_Hey so there a GPG doc anywhere that explains the proper procedure when your key expires?06:24
dokompt: the "Specification URL"06:26
smurfwasabi: the easiest way is to extend the expire date, re-sign it, and re-upload.06:27
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mjg59D'oh06:33
=== mjg59 finds an irritating bug in irda-utils
ogradoko, YAY, got answer from the hostel, thanks for helping with it :-D06:38
Keybukmjg59: I have an irritating bug in irda-utils ... it causes my machine to explode06:40
mjg59Explode how?06:43
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truluxhey pitti 06:45
truluxhowya!06:45
trulux(Hi all :))06:45
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seb128Lathiat: coming to UBZ?06:47
Lathiatseb128: nope :(06:47
Lathiatunfortunately there from australia is expensive, and i wasn't chosen for sponsorship06:48
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DonChullioHi here is a very good Browser Game !!!! http://www.street-conflicts.de.ki !!!!! It's about Gangster and ...... !!!!!!07:06
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mptand ......07:07
=== mpt will forever be left in suspense
ogra*grin*07:07
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Treenaksogra: do you expect to have internet in Montreal? :)07:08
ograTreenaks, yup, why not ? 07:08
ogradid they shut canada down ? 07:08
Treenaksogra: I don't know... maybe there are only very expensive wifi hotspots?07:08
ograthe hostel that just confirmed my booking has free wireless07:09
Treenakscool07:09
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Treenaksogra: which one is that?07:09
infinitys/cool/normal/, really.07:09
infinityCanada is all about the plentiful bandwidth.07:09
ograhttp://www.hostellingmontreal.com/en/home.aspx?sortcode=2.6.507:09
infinity(moving from Canada to Australia sucked)07:10
mptdamn07:10
Treenaksinfinity: don't do that then ;)07:10
infinityToo late.07:10
ograTreenaks, apparently proven that they have connection, doko is already there and is online07:10
=== mpt just finished his booking at the Montreal hostel that has the WORST INTERNET KIOSKS IN THE WORLD
Treenaksmpt: which one?07:10
ogrampt, when will you arrive ? 07:11
mptTreenaks: the Hostelling International one07:11
ogradoko, btw, they offered me a single room :)07:11
TreenaksI booked at the "auberge alternative", only 500m from the Holiday Inn07:12
mptIt's a bit cheaper than ogra's, though07:12
ograTreenaks, we'll all move over to to the holiday inn once the conference starts...07:12
Treenaksogra: Yes, you paid-for people will07:13
Treenaksogra: The holiday inn was booked full almost from the announcement07:13
ograTreenaks, thats why i didnt really care where i stay for the three nights07:13
Treenaks:)07:13
mptogra: about midday on the 30th07:13
ogrampt, and you go to a hostel ??07:13
mptogra: Just from the 11th to the 13th07:14
ograoh, k07:14
TreenaksI pay $20 (canadian)/night for 9 nights07:15
Treenakswhich I thought was affordable :)07:15
mptIt'll do me good to have an Internet-less weekend07:16
ogra*shudder* 07:16
ograno internet ...07:17
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Treenaks"no internet".. that exists?!07:17
Lathiathaha07:17
=== Treenaks heard horror stories of places like that
\shogra: u don't need internet..07:20
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=== ogra wonders why the mulitverse blackdown package isnt mentioned with a singel word on http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/ch03s02.html
ograthat really sucks07:20
\shogra: update the toolchain ;)07:21
ogramdke, any reason for that ? you dont need 1.5 at all for a working plugin...07:21
ograthe description there is a highly advanced task... looks like ubuntuguide07:22
Keybukmjg59: hang hard, or kernel panic ... we've talked about it before07:28
mjg59Oh, yes07:29
mjg59I remember07:29
mjg59I think it's because the southbridge isn't set up properly, or something mad like that07:29
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=== \sh can't attend to CC today :(
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truluxin 10 minutes, we'll start a ameeting over #ubuntu-hardened07:52
Keybukthe best distribution-related name since "woody" ;)07:53
truluxhah07:54
Lathiathaha07:54
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hungerjoin #ubuntu-hardened07:59
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mxpxpodpitti: ping08:03
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mdkeogra, file a bug and/or update the relevant wiki pages08:06
wasabi_Oh wow.08:06
wasabi_I just upgraded slapd from hoary to breezy08:06
wasabi_and it blew away my ldap db08:07
Kinnisonbe grateful. ldap is nasty08:07
Kinnisonnow you are freed from the shackles of ASN108:07
Kinnisonand BER08:07
Kinnisonand DER08:07
Kinnisonand the true evils of cn, dc and ou08:08
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YokoZarHmm, ran out of disk space entirely while running through dpkg.  Shouldn't there be a warning that I'm really really low somewhere?08:09
ajmitchpitti: ping08:09
wasabi_Oh I see what happened.08:09
wasabi_Wow nice big bug.08:11
robertjwasabi: ouchie. What happened?08:12
wasabi_Looks like the postinst script tried to backup my db, stop slapd, then recreate and restore it.08:12
wasabi_but failed in the middle.08:12
robertjdid it at least get the backup done?08:12
wasabi_yeah08:12
wasabi_looks like it08:12
wasabi_That script needs to be refined a bit. It never asked me if it should even try.08:13
wasabi_And there was no reason for it to try it looks like.08:13
wasabi_And that entire methodology would break in the case of having multiple DBs08:14
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pittiajmitch, mxpxpod: pong08:16
mxpxpodpitti: could you try running devhelp in breezy on ppc?08:16
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ajmitchpitti: #ubuntu-hardened, if you can spare the time08:17
ajmitchjust the pre-UBZ meeting08:17
pittimxpxpod: I do that regularly08:17
pittiajmitch: actually I can't08:17
pittiajmitch: I'm about to leave08:18
mxpxpodpitti: it segfaults for me08:18
ajmitchpitti: that's ok08:18
pittimxpxpod: I don't remember that, but I'll try it tomorrow08:18
mxpxpodpitti: I backtraced it and it's something to do with the firefox libgtkmozembed.so08:18
mvoDiziet: your automatic updates spec sounds similar to my "unattend upgrades" spec 08:21
mxpxpodpitti: anyway, gotta get going... I'll ping you tomorrow about your test results :)08:25
pittimxpxpod: I'll be mostly offline tomorrow, I'm travelling to Montreal08:26
mxpxpodah, ok08:26
mxpxpodpitti: I'll ping you next time I see you, then08:26
pittimxpxpod: just file a bug :-)08:26
mxpxpodok, will do08:26
mxpxpodlater08:26
pittiWFM08:26
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Nafalloj^: your bind9 lacks dpatch as build-dep and FTBFS on my amd64 :-).08:33
SurakHello, I have a question. What happened with getty logins at breezy live? 08:33
Nafalloj^: the rest of the nm-packages is built for amd64 on http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/packages :-)08:33
SurakI mean, they're no longer there. Which prevents the shutdown messages from appearing somewhere.08:33
Suraktyping ctrl-alt-fx does nothing.08:34
TerminXSurak: this isn't a support channel08:34
j^Nafallo a thats cool. i will fix the build-dep for dpatch in that case08:34
j^though it should be part of the official bind package at some point08:34
SurakTerminX: This is not support. I suspect that there's something wrong, and want to know before posting a bug.08:34
TerminXWell, you could always ask in the /correct/ channel, which would be #ubuntu at this point08:35
SurakI tried in three different machines. There are no VTs on them.08:35
SurakIf this were intended to be support, I would have done it already.08:37
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jbaileymdz: You asked last night about initramfs/usplash tighter integration.  The initramfs-tools pieces are all in already, it just needs the glue in the kernel postinst/postrm scripts.09:03
jbaileymdz: After that, everything can use update-initramfs09:04
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seb128elmo: around?09:53
Nafallomjg59: ping09:54
wasabi_Don't suppose anybody is familiar with any effort to package iSCSI for Ubuntu/Debian?09:55
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salgadohi there10:27
jbaileysalgado: hi. =)10:28
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salgadojbailey, not sure if you remember, but we have a diskless setup here at async10:29
=== wasabi_ works on packaging iscsitarget
salgadoand now I decided to start using the stock kernel instead of compiling our own all the time10:29
salgadoI used mkinitramfs and got an initrd that works fine, apart from not setting the hostname it gets from dhcp10:30
jbaileysalgado: Sorry, what's an async?10:35
Amaranthasync in this case is a company10:35
salgadojbailey, async is kiko's company name10:35
jbaileyAh, okay.  Making sure that it wasn't something like rsync, but not quite. =)10:36
jbaileyEh?  I thought kiko worked for Canonical.10:36
jbaileyBut either way.10:36
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jbaileyHmm, the hostname is usually set by setting /etc/hostname, right?10:36
=== jbailey tries to remember if it's also cached by the kernel
Mithrandir: tfheen@vawad ~ > find /proc/sys -name hostname10:37
Mithrandir/proc/sys/kernel/hostname10:37
Mithrandirfsvo cached10:38
jbaileyRight, with the sethostname call.10:38
ajmitchhi10:38
jbaileyHeya Andrew.10:38
salgadowe used to generate the nbis with mknbi --ip=dhcp and that used to work just fine. that is, we just specify the hostname in dhcpd.conf10:38
ajmitchmorning jeff10:38
jbaileysalgado: Right.  The trick is 1) Figure out if the klibc dhcp client fetched that information 2) Set the hostname with it when we get it.10:38
jbaileysalgado: Do you have a box handy to test with?  If not, I can fire up the laptop and check.10:39
jbaileyMithrandir: Thanks, btw. =)10:39
salgadojbailey, yes, I have10:39
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salgadohow can I check that?10:39
jbaileysalgado: Cool.  If you add 'break' to the kernel command line, it'll drop you into the shell, I *think* before the dhcp client is run.10:39
=== jbailey checks.
jbaileyRight, it is.10:40
jbaileysalgado: If you can bring a machine up to that point, we can see what you get out.10:40
salgadojbailey, cool. I'll do it10:41
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salgadojbailey, ok, I got an ash prompt10:45
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jbaileysalgado: Cool.  Your network drivers and such should all be loaded.  Can you do ipconfig DEVICE (like ipconfig eth0 or whatever), please?10:46
salgadojbailey, done. got host, domain, address, gateway, etc. 10:47
jbaileysalgado: Okay, cool.  Let's step it the rest of the way by hand to see if this will be enough.10:48
jbailey. /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf10:48
jbaileyThat should load in a pile of variables.  You can cat it to see what's there.10:48
salgadoright. I can see HOSTNAME there10:49
salgadoand it's set correctly10:49
jbaileysalgado: Cool.  Let's try echo ${HOSTNAME} >/proc/sys/kernel/hostname10:50
salgadookay, done10:51
jbaileyThen: nfsmount -o rw -o retrans=10 ${ROOTSERVER}:${ROOTPATH} /root10:51
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salgadodone10:52
=== Nafallo goes to sleep, gnight
jbaileysalgado: umount /sys10:52
jbaileysalgado: umount /proc10:52
jbaileysalgado: exec run-init /root /sbin/init10:53
salgadodone10:53
salgadookay, hostname set correctly. :)10:54
jbaileyNice.  So there's one line missing from the script to keep you happy. =)10:54
jbaileyWell, three if you want [ -z "${HOSTNAME}" ] , to look pretty.10:54
salgadoshould I add it to the 'nfs' file?10:55
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jbaileyBut anyhow, would you mind filing that in bugzilla?  It just needs to say subject: "NFS should honour HOSTNAME setting", with a body of "scripts/nfs should set the hostname if available from the net-${DEVICE}.conf file"10:56
jbaileysalgado: Yup, for now just edit /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs, and add it right after the . /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf10:56
salgadosure10:56
salgadojbailey, there's another issue I had...10:57
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salgadowe used to have a line like this: option root-path "192.168.99.4:/export/hoary,v3,rsize=16384,wsize=16384,tcp"; in our dhcpd.conf10:57
salgadobut everything that comes after the comma seems to be treated as the rootpath10:58
YokoZarquick, someone name a windows EXE to test my wine package with.10:58
jbaileyYokoZar: sol.exe10:58
YokoZarok, one I can grab off google10:59
jbaileyYokoZar: Oh, then putty.10:59
YokoZarhmm, ok, putty :)10:59
jbaileysalgado: I don't know then dhcpd site of the NFS root.10:59
YokoZarOk, works, great10:59
wasabi_dh_install doesn't seem to be able to rename, does it?11:00
wasabi_alas.11:00
jbaileysalgado: But from where it got put, that seems right.11:00
jbaileysalgado: I'm guessing there''s probably some other property that ought to be set.  What there any other obvious ones in the net-${DEVICE}.conf file?11:00
jbaileywasabi_: Cannot, correct.11:00
salgadojbailey, sorry, I'm not following you11:01
jbaileysalgado: When you ran cat /tmp/net-eth0.conf in the initramfs, did you see any extra variables in there that might be useful for extra NFS options?11:01
salgadoI thought about setting NFSOPTS in initramfs.conf as I saw it in the 'nfs' script11:02
salgadoI don't recall having seen anything related to mount options11:02
jbaileyRight, but that means an extra level of customisatoin.11:02
jbaileyIf it's possible to get the DHCP server to hand it out automatically, that would be ideal.11:02
salgadoindeed11:03
=== salgado reboots the test machine to check everything that is in /tmp/net-eth0.conf
jbaileyI see that SUNW supports:11:06
jbailey# SrootOpt, NFS mount options for the client's root file system11:06
jbaileyoption SUNW.root-mount-options code 1 = text;                       #optional11:06
salgadono luck. the only thing I see there is ROOTPATH, which is even truncated. :-(11:06
jbaileysalgado: Looking through the ipconfig code, it's not one of the options.11:09
jbaileysalgado: Dunno if there's something standardish that you can use.11:10
jbaileyFor now you have the initramfs.conf file as an option, anyway.11:10
jbaileyPerhaps file that as a wishlist item and suggest that we honour option SUNW.root-mount-options "rsize=8192,wsize=8192,noxattr";11:10
salgadoI guess that's okay for now. kiko already experimented a lot with different options, so I don't think we'll ned to change this soon11:11
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cevizogluhow does checkinstall know where files are going to end up?  does it use the kernel to do so?11:16
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Amaranthcevizoglu: it uses installwatch11:18
AmaranthThis monitors <command> and logs using the syslog(3) facility every created11:19
Amaranth   or modified file.11:19
Amaranththat's what the installwatch README says11:19
cevizogluahh, thx  :)11:20
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wasabi_There a guide on proper creation of module source packages11:27
wasabi_?11:27
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YokoZarYou know what's exceptionally annoying?  The Synaptic "add custom repository" window has no name (and therefore is invisible on the taskbar) and jumps to the very back when you click another window, so you have to minimize everything to find it again.11:31
YokoZarSometimes even a modal dialogue box is better than that ;)11:32
cevizogluugh, modal dialogs are the number one factor in poor user experience, imho11:35
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carstenhjbailey: ping11:48
YokoZarIs it too early for breezy backports?  I'm about ready to have Wine 0.9 into Dapper universe ;)11:48
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madsenHey!11:49
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madsenApparently no one in #ubuntu knows, or cares to answer what stat64() does... I've got an strace from a bad, bad mono install that's full of failing stat64()'s...11:50
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cevizoglumadsen, try man stat11:53
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madsenoh! :)11:53
tsengstat looks at a file11:54
tsengstat is the 64 bit equivenlant i imagine11:54
madsenThat's weird, 'cause I'm on 32 bit...11:54
slomothe 64bit are for large files...11:55
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madsenHmm, ok...11:55
slomomadsen: what fails there? mono looks for files which aren't there?11:55
madsenslomo: "stat64("libc.so.6", 0xbfb15b84)         = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)"11:56
tsengthats perfectly normal11:56
tsengits trying to walk LDPATH or so11:56
tsengto find its so11:56
tsengit will find it in /lib and move on11:56
madsenHmm, ok... I'm just trying to find out why my mono is so screwed up.11:57
tsengcan you be more specific without throwing in red herrings please?11:57
tsengwhat is the symptom11:57
madsentseng: Well, there's an open() call to /lib/libc.so.6 way before the failing stat64()...11:58
tsengsigh11:58
tsengwhat is the *symptom*11:58
madsentseng: Sorry, I was writing that when you asked...11:58
tsengie, the reason you are looking at a trace to begin with11:58
madsentseng: I know, I know... :)11:58
madsentseng: All mono apps fail with the same non-descriptive error message....11:58
madsen"Unhandled Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object"11:59
slomomadsen: what's above that?11:59
madsenThat goes for beagle, monodoc, banshee etc.11:59
tsengim guessing there is a lot surrounding that11:59
tsengabove and below11:59
slomoi expect a missing assembly11:59
tsengplease add it to a pastebin11:59
madsenslomo: Nothing but that...11:59
tsengpastebin.ca is nice11:59
madsenOk, listen... There's only that single line!12:00
jbaileycarstenh: pong12:00
madsenNothing but my call to (beagle|banshee|monodoc) above it - and nothing but my bash promt below...12:00
tsengmono --debug /usr/lib/beagle/Best.exe12:01
tsenganymore for that?12:01
madsentseng: Hang on, trying that. :)12:01
=== nappy754 [n=nappy754@c-24-16-173-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
zakamehi all12:02

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