[12:02] <ogra> YAY !
[12:02] <Seveas> topic too shory :)
[12:02] <sivang> ogra: but it's using the non launchpad infarst.
[12:02] <Seveas> short*
[12:03] <ogra> sivang, its open
[12:03] <sivang> right :)
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[12:07] <daniels> Seveas: 'yes, dapper' was all I wrote
[12:07] <Seveas> lol :)
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[12:07] <hughsie> ogra: debian removed from directory source, i'll re-upload
[12:08] <ogra> great
[12:08] <hughsie> now i need to work out how to build the boody thing again!
[12:08] <ogra> use dh_make
[12:08] <ogra> but use a orig.tar.gz
[12:08] <ogra> that contains the plain source
[12:08] <hughsie> and how to use the debian files?
[12:10] <ogra> dh_make creates them for you ...
[12:10] <ogra> with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S you create a debian source package that keeps packaging and soucre distinct
[12:11] <hughsie> ahh, that's what i needed to know
[12:11] <ogra> so a debian source package should consist of .dsc orig.tar.gz diff.gz and source.changes file
[12:11] <ogra> the diff.gz will hold the debian dir and all patches to the source
[12:12] <hughsie> sorry for being think, it's a bit of a difference to rpm
[12:12] <ogra> yup
[12:13] <hughsie> \me fires up breezy...
[12:15] <hughsie> ogra: take two: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=133929 (bare source)
[12:17] <whiprush> wow, new Xorg already. Let the bleeding begin!
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[12:18] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:20] <ajmitch> whiprush: just don't run with scissors
[12:21] <hughsie> ogra: ok quite impressed , dh_make rocks.
[12:21] <whiprush> I'm a boring person anyway
[12:21] <ogra> yup
[12:22] <Treenaks> ajmitch: jdub does it
[12:22] <ajmitch> Treenaks: jdub is a special case
[12:22] <Treenaks> ajmitch: true, he loves the bleeding edge ;)
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[12:29] <hughsie> ogra: what do you do with the .ex files?
[12:29] <ogra> remove or use .ex == example
[12:30] <ogra> also use lintian to check the package quality and pbuilder to check the building
[12:30] <hughsie> ogra: okay, thanks
[12:30] <ogra> there is a PbuilderHowto on the wiki :)
[12:30] <hughsie> cool
=== Nafallo giggles about archive.ubuntu.com some times have icons and some times not have icons :-)
[12:34] <Seveas> Nafallo, a.u.c is not a single machine :)
[12:36] <Nafallo> I know :-)
[12:36] <Nafallo> three machines :-)
[12:36] <Nafallo> should still have the same conf one might think ;-)
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[12:37] <daniels> christ vim take sa long time to build
[12:39] <doko> elmo: please could you sync gcc-3.3, gcc-3.4, gcc-defaults from unstable, gcc-4.0 from incoming, overwriting the ubuntu changes?
[12:40] <elmo> daniels: the clever linking tricks help
[12:40] <daniels> elmo: i think the buildds are going to hate me for all my x11 lib uploads
[12:41] <daniels> elmo: the dude generating the tarballs did it on some bleeding edge omgcvs gentoo version of libtool
[12:41] <elmo> I think the buildds are bored and don't much care as long as they get something to do
[12:41] <daniels> elmo: it tests the command length against $max_cmd_length, which doesn't exist in our libtool, and of course, setting a sensible default is for pansies
[12:41] <elmo> doko: can you mail?  I'm swamped atm, I'll lose track of IRC
[12:41] <daniels> so libX11's link invokes ar a few hundred times, just quietly appending to the archive, for shits and giggles
[12:41] <elmo> daniels: dude, that is clever.  that beats vim
[12:42] <daniels> it's great to watch, along with the ': numeric expression expected', or whatever
[12:42] <daniels> elmo: x outsmarts all
[12:42] <daniels> combined with libtool, we are an UNSTOPPABLE FORCE of sensibility and forward planning
[12:43] <mjg59> daniels: I KILL YOU
[12:43] <daniels> mjg59: good morning?
[12:43] <Nafallo> mjg59: are you going to stream that event? :-)
[12:44] <mjg59> Mostly I kill anyone who's ever touched libtool
[12:44] <doko> elmo: ok, will do
[12:44] <daniels> mjg59: i haven't touched libtool
[12:44] <daniels> mjg59: libtool touches me at night, in very inappropriate places
[12:45] <mjg59> See? it's evil
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[12:45] <daniels> mjg59: i have never, ever, claimed otherwise
[12:47] <jdub> HOORAY FOR DAPPER!
=== Nafallo silently nods to jdub
[12:47] <ogra> hoary for dapper ??
[12:47] <TMM> woot Dapper!
[12:47] <Nafallo> it might even give me x atm ;-)
[12:47] <TMM> dapper is going to be a breez(y) to install!
[12:47] <ajmitch> morning jdub 
[12:47] <TMM> hey jdub 
[12:47] <ajmitch> or whatever timezone you're in today :)
[12:49] <daniels> i haven't broken X in dapper.
[12:49] <mjg59> daniels: Pls break X in dapper
[12:49] <mjg59> We miss broken X
[12:49] <daniels> mjg59: i will.  just for you.
[12:49] <ajmitch> thanks
[12:49] <zakame> Is dapper's repos up?
[12:49] <mjg59> No
[12:50] <mjg59> It'll be in the topic once it is
=== ajmitch can't wait to dist-upgrade & enjoy the breakage
[12:50] <daniels> mjg59: the X server is a complex beast, so it's easy to slip in if (strcmp(username, "mjg59") == 0)
[12:50] <daniels> mjg59: (psst: it is)
[12:50] <mjg59> Goddamnit.
[12:50] <zakame> haha
[12:50] <mjg59> I hate being behind the times.
[12:50] <mjg59> Have we opened on Katie, then?
[12:50] <daniels> mjg59: well, on jackass at least
[12:50] <daniels> mjg59: yes, katie is up and running
[12:50] <daniels> i've uploaded > 30 packages so far
[12:50] <mjg59> Ah, I just got email
[12:50] <mjg59> I bet they're all X
[12:50] <mjg59> Are they modular?
=== ajmitch is just waiting for autosyncs to flood my inbox
[12:51] <jdub> ajmitch: in spain atm
[12:51] <TMM> daniels, and merge r300 so fglrx can me moved to universe :)
[12:51] <ajmitch> jdub: great fun, when do you travel over to montreal?
[12:52] <daniels> TMM: what do you mean, 'merge r300'?
[12:52] <daniels> mjg59: not got to the server yet, got to do new upstreams of everything else.
[12:52] <TMM> jdub, you got out of here just in time then, its pouring rain here now :)
[12:52] <daniels> mjg59: (well, I'm running the modular server of course, but it hasn't been uploaded yet.  patience.)
[12:52] <TMM> daniels, the r300 dri driver, I don't think it is merged in xorg 7.0 yet
[12:53] <ogra> hughsie, uploaded the initial package ;) could you add a manpage for gnome-power-info for the next upload ? 
[12:53] <daniels> TMM: it has been for quite some time
[12:53] <TMM> daniels, the dri driver as well? I thought only enough was merged for render and EXA
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[12:54] <daniels> TMM: dude, look in /usr/lib/dri on a *breezy* system
[12:55] <Nafallo> hehe
[12:55] <hughsie> ogra: i've done a source deb
[12:56] <hughsie> manpage for g-p-i on it's way
[12:56] <hughsie> plus i need to sort out the /usr/etc stuff
[12:56] <Nafallo> baah, never trust google to do the right thing ;-)
[12:56] <Nafallo> Epson Stylus Photo R300, why does it need dri? ;-)
[12:56] <hughsie> ogra: lintian isn't bad... i'm quite impressed so far
[12:57] <ogra> hughsie, /usr/etc ? 
[12:57] <ogra> hughsie, i dont have any /usr/etc stuff here ...
[12:57] <jdub> ajmitch: wednesday, but things may change...
[12:58] <hughsie> ogra: i get a warning, that file-in-unuusal-dir /usr/etc/gconf..
[12:58] <ogra> not in my package here ...
[12:58] <hughsie> can you show me your diff. file
[12:59] <daniels> elmo: link.sh> jesus shit.  that thing is an abomination.
[01:00] <Nafallo> daniels: how do I enable r300 then? :-)
[01:00] <daniels> Nafallo: first you update the kernel to get the drm module, then you update the X server and the Radeon driver to get the DDX bits.  dri is a three-way tangle.
[01:00] <ogra> hughsie, its your former debian dir copied in a clean dh_make built package ...
[01:00] <Nafallo> daniels: dapper will have that love soon enough? :-)
[01:01] <hughsie> ogra: hmmm, i need toplay more...
[01:01] <ogra> hughsie, all locations seem fine here, builds fine and runs fine :)
[01:01] <hughsie> ogra: cool!
[01:01] <daniels> Nafallo: you'll know about it when it does
[01:01] <hughsie> hal cvs would help...
=== ajmitch wanders off for lunch
[01:02] <ogra> hughsie, dont forget we package for dapper, things are expected to be broken in the beginning... its just important that they are fine at *some* point :)
[01:02] <Nafallo> daniels: oki, kewl :-).
[01:03] <hughsie> ogra: okay, cool
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[01:03] <hughsie> ogra; we need a new hal release...
[01:03] <ogra> hughsie, will come :)
[01:04] <ogra> pitti is sleeping already 
[01:05] <hughsie> ogra: gnome-power-info manpage being added to cvs..
[01:05] <ogra> oki
[01:05] <ogra> will add it in the next upload ...
[01:05] <Nafallo> ogra: tomorrow? :-)
[01:05] <hughsie> ogra: na, i'll release 0.2.8.2 soon, with a few other fixes in a few days
[01:06] <ogra> hughsie, the package will show up on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gnome-power-manager/ at some point (source and binary) take that as a base  ;)
[01:06] <ogra> Nafallo, not sure... i'll have to care for my travelling stuff tomorrow... 
[01:07] <Nafallo> oh, right.
[01:07] <hughsie> ogra: okay, thanks
[01:07] <Nafallo> I forgot everyone was going away :-P
[01:07] <ogra> hughsie, seems dholbach got the spec for dapper power management assigned, he'll pobably take over 
[01:07] <hughsie> ogra: okay, cool. the pmi integration needs some work i think
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[01:08] <ogra> hughsie, thats a mjg59 task, i'll try to figure out the changes from the lat package and adopt them to the new one ... (or tell dholbach to do it)
[01:08] <ogra> *last
[01:09] <madsen> Testing, testing... Is this thing on? :-p
[01:09] <ogra> madsen, SING !
[01:09] <madsen> I'm not sure if this is the right place, but there's a problem with the wacom module.
[01:09] <ogra> madsen, bugzila is the right place ;)
[01:09] <ogra> *bugzilla
[01:09] <hughsie> ogra: whats lat?
[01:10] <madsen> ogra: Well, that depends if it's really a bug or just me being an idiot...
[01:10] <ogra> *last 
[01:10] <madsen> For some reason the mousedev module takes control when I plug in my tablet - that b0rks the pressure sensitivity in the tablet. :-/
[01:11] <hughsie> ogra: the hal package or g-p-m?
[01:11] <madsen> So I was wondering if it's just because I haven't told it not too (dunno how or where I should do that) or if it's actually a bug...
[01:11] <madsen> s/not too/not to/
[01:15] <khakionion> i've got a wacom graphire2 here, can i help?
[01:16] <madsen> khakionion: Hmm, perhaps! I've got the (cheap) Volito though..
[01:16] <madsen> khakionion: Does you graphire work out of the box with ubuntu?
[01:16] <khakionion> madsen: alrighty, well, let me see...do i just check dmesg to see if it loaded mousedev?
[01:17] <khakionion> yep
[01:17] <khakionion> madsen: it works out-of-box on hoary & breezy...i dunno about pressure sensitivity, though
[01:17] <madsen> khakionion: Hmm... Well, you can do 'cat /proc/bus/input/devices' and paste me the Handlers= line. :)
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[01:18] <madsen> Problem is that the volito "works" but without pressure sensitivity - and that's mousedevs fault... Actually the tablet is just treated as a mouse...
[01:19] <khakionion> madsen: for the "Wacom Graphire3 6x8" (ooh, even better than a Graphire2, heh) the Handlers line is
[01:19] <khakionion> Handlers=mouse1 event3 ts1
[01:19] <madsen> Heh, same thing as here... Then you probably don't have pressure sensitivity working either. :(
[01:21] <madsen> mouse1 shouldn't be there at all... I think it's usbhid's fault... I remember seeing something about that on linuxwacom.sf.net...
[01:21] <khakionion> hmm
[01:22] <madsen> I just hoped I could either configure me out of it or file a bug report and complain until it was fixed. :-p (Someone said: Ubuntu users don't compile, they complain. :-p)
[01:23] <Riddell> is uploading to dapper much the same as uploading to breezy?
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[01:24] <daniels> Riddell: ...
[01:24] <daniels> Riddell: no, we upload srpms now
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[01:25] <Riddell> I have no answer to such wit
[01:26] <infinity> What wit?
[01:26] <infinity> He's being quite serious.  We're Fedora-based now.
[01:26] <infinity> No one told you?
[01:27] <Riddell> I think I'm going to become an openSuSE developer
[01:29] <khakionion> madsen: after installing wacom-tools, the command "sudo wacdump /dev/input/event3" shows working pressure sensitivity
[01:29] <daniels> the U is capitalised now, too
[01:29] <hughsie> ogra: thanks, night..
[01:29] <Riddell> daniels: except when it isn't
[01:29] <madsen> khakionion: Hmm... Interesting... I never thought of checking it that way. :)
[01:29] <ogra> night hughsie 
[01:29] <ogra> thanks as well ;)
[01:32] <sivang> ogra: you're not going to sleep as well?
[01:32] <sivang> :)
[01:33] <khakionion> madsen: i gotta go, but i'll be working on this later
[01:34] <robertj> What kind of hardware is the wiki running on?
[01:34] <Nafallo> moinmoin
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[01:34] <sivang> Nafallo: that the hardware? :)
[01:34] <khakionion> looks like all that might need to be changed is xorg.conf...dunno what that would mean for usability, though, since changing that involves restarting X, right?
[01:34] <madsen> khakionion: Ok, thanks for the help! :)
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[01:36] <Nafallo> oops ;-)
[01:37] <Nafallo> sivang: nice catch :-)
[01:38] <madsen> khakionion: Was that last line for me too?
[01:38] <sivang> Nafallo: hmm, maybe we can sell moinmoin applicances :) be like google, and it will be based off ubuntu :)
[01:38] <Nafallo> hihi
[01:38] <khakionion> madsen: yeah, sorry :)
[01:39] <madsen> khakionion: I've already setup a lot of stuff in xorg.conf, but since the system treats the pointing dev as a mouse it doesn't use the pressure sensitivity. :-/
[01:39] <khakionion> ah, okay
[01:39] <madsen> khakionion: Btw, wacdump shows working pres.sens. for me too, but gimp doesn't...
[01:40] <khakionion> madsen: darn...hmm, okay, i've got some ideas on what to do, but i've got to get a physics test and a calculus test out of the way first. i'll be back on it tomorrow afternoon :)
[01:41] <madsen> khakionion: Hehe, ok. Best of luck then. Don't stress yourself... I'm just bored and wasting my time trying to make the tablet work in the most impossible way I can find... (I think.)
[01:42] <khakionion> madsen: thx...i've been anxious to start helping out w/ubuntu, glad i finally found something relatively unique/doable.
[01:45] <Kinnison> bed methinks
[01:45] <Kinnison> ciao all
[01:46] <bob2> adios, Kinnison 
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[01:49] <daniels> Kinnison: g'night
[01:50] <tseng> daniels: is dapper broken enough yet?
=== tseng hides
[01:50] <daniels> the next one to make a dapper being broken joke gets dapper broken with a faked changelog with their name in it
[01:50] <tseng> hm
[01:51] <sivang> daniels: at least that would get me some more changlog entries :)
[01:51] <Nafallo> hehe, 43+ packages and and daniels uploaded all but 2 :-P
[01:51] <tseng> sivang: whos counting
[01:51] <daniels> and, unless I'm very much mistaken, that's dapper's first NEW source package
[01:51] <sivang> tseng: heheh
[01:52] <tseng> mkdir -p .maildir/.ubuntu.dapper-changes/{cur,new,tmp}
[01:52] <tseng> we're off
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[02:08] <sivang> night all
[02:08] <hyperactivecrond> night sivang 
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=== robertj ponders the dot mac clone spec
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[02:46] <bddebian> Hello
[02:46] <ajmitch> hi bddebian 
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[02:49] <robertj> Anyone wanna help brain-storm on the Ubuntu.Mac spec?
[02:52] <ajmitch> robertj: dotUbuntu? :)
[02:52] <robertj> the best I can think of is TribeDisk
[02:53] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DotUbuntuRegistrationClient
[02:53] <robertj> with the ability to join "Tribes" to assist you in setting up your TribeDisk, EDS datasources, etc
[02:53] <ajmitch> not sure why I can't find it on the main wiki
[02:53] <robertj> ajmitch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%2eMac
[02:54] <ajmitch> yeah, i saw
[02:54] <robertj> ajmitch: I was envisioning a communal kerberos and slapd pool
[02:54] <ajmitch> there's existing specs out there with similar goals from UDU
[02:54] <bob2> haha
[02:55] <robertj> and then for the space you get to grab hosting from davs source including Canonical on a pay basis
[02:55] <robertj> bob2: you think kerberos & slapd would choke at that scale?
[02:55] <bob2> I'd be amused to see someone try
[02:56] <robertj> bob2: my realm has < 5k users so I'm not really one to vauch for capacity
[02:58] <robertj> bob2: there are some really honking directory deployments that use kerberos
[03:01] <robertj> bob2: I'm actually very curious, could you fill me in?
[03:01] <bob2> I've never seen/been involved in a big kerberos deployment
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[03:01] <bob2> I've not heard of ones distributed across dozens of locations with hundreds of thousands of users, tho
[03:02] <robertj> bob2: the Army does Active Directory if you count that
[03:02] <robertj> and err...that's alot of users
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[03:02] <robertj> (US Army, sorry)
[03:02] <Nafallo> robertj: sweden to soon ;-)
[03:03] <robertj> but I think it's important that there is both an easy to use free service and the option to use local services
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[03:04] <robertj> one problem is that gconf doesn't have any mature backend except for XML, and even if it did alot of the services don't store the settings that need to be changed in gconf
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[03:05] <robertj> but for proper integration Gaim, EDS, and half a billion other things should get clued into the change
[03:07] <robertj> another big issue is that SyncServer doesn't have any equivalent I am aware of in Ubuntu
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[03:15] <daniels> imendio have done work on gconf-over-dbus for the 770
[03:15] <daniels> and nevermind me, misread your question
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[03:23] <Fuji-san> TRULUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[03:23] <Fuji-san> FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[03:23] <Fuji-san> :D
[03:23] <trulux> Fuji-san: stop it
[03:23] <Nafallo> Fuji-san: ...
[03:23] <tseng> dude
[03:23] <Fuji-san> hi
[03:23] <trulux> I had to ban this guy of #ubuntu-hardened
[03:23] <bob2> Fuji-san: you've already been banned from two ubutnu questoins for being a gimp
[03:23] <tseng> daniels: can you ban this guy please
[03:23] <bob2> oh, 3, then
[03:23] <bob2> daniels: oi
[03:23] <ajmitch> bob2: almost 4
[03:23] <tseng> bob2: i kicked him from -motu and he autorejoin'd
[03:24] <Fuji-san> i'm innocent untill proven guolty :((
[03:24] <tseng> bob2: i had mercy
[03:24] <tseng> Fuji-san: not really
[03:24] <ajmitch> Fuji-san: you just proved yourself guilty
[03:24] <trulux> Fuji-san: you own the record of kicks and bans after pappy- the star destroyer
[03:24] <Fuji-san> sorry guys i just want to make friends
[03:24] <bob2> Fuji-san: no, you've been shown to be annoying and useless
[03:24] <Fuji-san> i'm sorry
[03:24] <bob2> Fuji-san: then join #hottub, these channels are for technical discussion
[03:24] <trulux> Fuji-san: go out and make friends, that will calm you down
[03:24] <bob2> and ripping on SuSe
[03:24] <ajmitch> trulux: no, I think that we had some others that managed to get all channels
[03:25] <Fuji-san> bob2 hottub is empty
[03:25] <trulux> ajmitch: hah
[03:25] <bob2> Fuji-san: that's a shame
[03:25] <trulux> Fuji-san: bad for you
[03:25] <trulux> :)
[03:25] <Fuji-san> lolz
[03:25] <trulux> let's stop this 
[03:25] <Fuji-san> 4 channels
[03:25] <Fuji-san> nice 1 tseng
[03:25] <Fuji-san> peerpressure huh :/
[03:25] <bob2> Fuji-san: no, you've just annoyed everyone simultaneously
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o daniels]  by ChanServ
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*i=Smith@*.upc-d.chello.nl]  by daniels
=== Fuji-san was kicked off #ubuntu-devel by daniels (daniels)
[03:26] <daniels> sorry, was making breakfast
[03:26] <daniels> anywhere else I can be useful?
[03:26] <schweeb> just keep up with the Xorg goodness :)
[03:26] <tseng> i think we got it all
[03:26] <tseng> (for now)
[03:26] <Nafallo> daniels: more xorg? :-) you're doing a great job on that front already though ;-).
[03:26] <schweeb> Nafallo: I win :p
[03:27] <Nafallo> schweeb: mine was longer ;-)
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o daniels]  by daniels
[03:32] <elmo> mdz: fyi, auto-sync is/has been running, but it looks like it's going to take all night
[03:33] <bob2> I wonder why gdm is running on vt9 now
[03:33] <mdz> elmo: ok, thanks
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[03:37] <mdz> elmo: where does webmaster@ubuntu.com go currently?
[03:38] <elmo> henrik
[03:38] <mdz> ok, good
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[03:59] <mdz> jbailey: do you already have initramfs-tools changes queued to put the final touches on the usplash integration?
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[04:05] <sabdfl> night all
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[04:23] <jody_lap> Good evening.  Where would I request that the gnumeric version in breezy get updated or patched ?
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[04:23] <jody_lap> I'm getting alot of reports upstream of a bug in the 1.5.90 beta version that made it into the release
[04:25] <crimsun> jody_lap: after autosync runs to completion, we can probably sync from experimental
[04:25] <Nafallo> crimsun: for dapper...
[04:25] <crimsun> rather, if a core developer deems it safe, he can ask for such a sync for Dapper
[04:27] <mdz> jody_lap: the best thing to do would be to report the bug
[04:27] <mdz> jody_lap: be specific about what the problem is, and provide a reference to the upstream bug report(s) (don't just ask for a new version)
[04:30] <ajmitch> mdz: just resent f-spot debdiff
[04:30] <ajmitch> hopefully this one arrives
[04:30] <mdz> ajmitch: third try?
[04:31] <ajmitch> 2nd
[04:32] <bddebian> f-spot?  Is that just below the g-spot?
=== bddebian hides
=== seth_k chases
[04:32] <seth_k> get back here you
[04:32] <ajmitch> don't encourage him
[04:32] <bddebian> Heh
[04:32] <seth_k> nobody makes a joke that poor and lives :D
[04:32] <bddebian> You know you love me ajmitch :-)
[04:38] <mdz> ajmitch: nothing
[04:38] <ajmitch> hm
[04:38] <ajmitch> strange, since I don't get any bounces from my ISP's mailserver
[04:39] <mdz> I also get a few hundred messages per day successfully at mdz@ubuntu.com
[04:39] <ajmitch> yes, mail I send to lists gets through
[04:40] <mdz> unless the subject was "Wanna be more man? Check this dude" it didn't get marked as spam
[04:40] <Nafallo> ajmitch: want to try to send it to me?
[04:40] <ajmitch> Nafallo: address?
[04:41] <Nafallo> ajmitch: pm :-)
[04:41] <ajmitch> yep
[04:42] <ajmitch> Nafallo: sent
[04:42] <Nafallo> recieved
[04:43] <Nafallo> I'll forward it :-)
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[04:44] <ajmitch> hm
[04:44] <ajmitch> still rather strange that it'd get lost twice :)
[04:44] <mdz> the forward arrived fine
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[04:46] <Nafallo> hehe, my isp told me that port 25 would be dropped when I got upgraded ;-)
=== ajmitch is sending through his ISP's mail server
[04:47] <Nafallo> that's what they told me I would have to do aswell.
[04:48] <Nafallo> anyway, worked ;-)
[04:48] <ajmitch> yeah
[04:48] <Nafallo> yay! autosyncs seems to arrive :-)
[04:48] <ajmitch> oh?
=== ajmitch hasn't seen any flood yet
[04:49] <Nafallo> 30 new in that folder :-)
[04:49] <daniels> those aren't autosyncs
[04:49] <Nafallo> no?
[04:49] <daniels> no
[04:50] <Nafallo> what are they then? :-)
[04:50] <ajmitch> Nafallo: that's daniels going nuts
[04:50] <Nafallo> in changes-auto?
[04:50] <mdz> ...followed by the first batch of autosyncs
[04:51] <ajmitch> Nafallo: hm, I didn't see that list on the server
[04:51] <jody_lap> crimsun: I'm not terribly clear on ubuntu development.  Is that related to debian experimental or is there an ubuntu experimental ?
[04:51] <daniels> hm, my mail delivery must be lagging an arseload
[04:51] <ajmitch> ah, ubuntu-changes-auto, not dapper
[04:52] <crimsun> jody_lap: mdz's statement regarding filing a bug was more appropriate
[04:52] <Nafallo> ehm. did my evolution just hang? :-P
[04:52] <mdz> jody_lap: he was referring to debian experimental
[04:52] <mdz> jody_lap: ubuntu generally has 1 development branch and 3+ stable releases
[04:52] <jody_lap> mdz: please repeat the comment, my connection dropped.
[04:53] <mdz> jody_lap: I asked that you file a bug in our Bugzilla with the specifics of the bug that you were referring to
[04:55] <daniels> poor katie.
[04:55] <daniels> there's still 49 packgaes plus however many have been autosynced
=== Nafallo agrees with daniels
[04:55] <Nafallo> 68+ :-)
[04:56] <mdz> jody_lap: someone should be able to look at it tomorrow morningish in europe
[04:58] <bob2> \sh_away: oi
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[05:08] <jody_lap> mdz: done.  Thanks
[05:08] <jody_lap> good night
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[05:21] <Nafallo> dapper: the free mta stress-test :-)
[05:27] <schweeb> Nafallo: -changes traffic too much for you or something?  try subscribing to LKML :p
[05:28] <Nafallo> nope, it stills holds up :-)
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[05:38] <daniels> fabbione: I WOULD LIKE A WORD
[05:38] <daniels>     ../configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --mandir=\$${prefix}/share/man \
[05:38] <daniels>                  --infodir=\$${prefix}/share/info --libdir=/etc/X11 $(confflags) \
[05:39] <daniels>                  CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"
[05:43] <bddebian> Uh oh
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=== daniels gets bored of apps, moves on to xorg-server.
[06:19] <Nafallo> :-)
[06:19] <daniels> (there's still like 40-50 messages that haven't hit breezy-changes.  so much less fun without instant feedback.)
[06:20] <Nafallo> hehe, I currently get about 20mails/min so... ;-)
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[06:25] <fabbione> morning
[06:25] <fabbione> daniels: do your uploads require a specific building order?
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[06:25] <daniels> don't build libxaw 2:0.99.1-1 or whatever it is
[06:25] <daniels> just skip straight to -2
[06:25] <daniels> that aside, no
[06:26] <fabbione> ok
[06:26] <fabbione> i didn't start the buildd on dapper yet
[06:26] <fabbione> so that's not a problem
[06:26] <fabbione> it will take the latest automatically
[06:26] <daniels> my X uploads are the least of your worries, dude
[06:26] <fabbione> i know
[06:26] <fabbione> i just wanted to be sure :)
[06:26] <daniels> i'd be a little more concerned about the eleventy hojillion packages that just got autosynced
[06:26] <fabbione> ehhehe
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[06:28] <Nafallo> 942 and counting ;-)
[06:28] <fabbione> elmo: can we please remove speedtouch package from dapper completely? Md did remove it from debian too
[06:29] <fabbione> elmo: and he did ask if we could do the same. thanks dude :)
[06:29] <fabbione> (if you need an rt, just say so ;))
[06:31] <ajmitch> fabbione: funnily enough I still use speedtouch on the old sarge box downstairs
[06:31] <fabbione> ajmitch: well it has been removed from Debian for a reason i assume :)
[06:31] <ajmitch> yes, it's not needed with kernels >= 2.6.10
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[06:32] <ajmitch> but I haven't got the speedtch module to work successfully for me yet :)
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=== fabbione builds his first dapper package on sparc
=== SloMoSnail is now known as slomo
[07:00] <slomo> elmo: can you please sync cli-common from debian/unstable? the ubuntu changes can be dropped and sync-permission by tseng ;)
[07:01] <Nafallo> slomo: he said he wanted sync requests on e-mail till things get less to do :-)
[07:01] <slomo> Nafallo: thanks... good to know :)
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[07:10] <pitti> Good morning
[07:10] <bddebian> Heya pitti 
[07:10] <dredg> morning pitti
[07:10] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[07:11] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:11] <pitti> yay, dapper!
=== pitti uploads his new crack
[07:11] <fabbione> pitti: ahaha join the queue :)
[07:12] <pitti> wow, I can't beat daniels, though :-)
[07:12] <Nafallo> morning pitti :-)
[07:12] <daniels> unstoppable.
[07:12] <Nafallo> daniels: tsss, auto-changes beats you hard enough :-)
[07:13] <daniels> Nafallo: auto-changes is cheating
[07:13] <daniels> it's using an aimbot
[07:13] <daniels> pitti: so, um, do we support any of the VNC servers?
[07:13] <Nafallo> hehe :-)
[07:14] <fabbione> pool/universe/c/crack/crack_5.0a-8.dsc
[07:15] <fabbione> hey we got even new CRACK!
[07:15] <pitti> daniels: hm?
=== Nafallo giggles
[07:15] <pitti> daniels: this vino thingy
[07:16] <daniels> pitti: is it based on the standard X server codebase?
[07:16] <pitti> daniels: no idea, sorry
[07:17] <pitti> daniels: but it build-deps on many X libraries
[07:17] <pitti> so maybe it doesn't duplicate (too much) X code
[07:18] <pitti> ah, wait, does dapper use LP or the good ol' way now?
[07:18] <Nafallo> good ol' :-)
[07:18] <daniels> pitti: okay, I think we're safe
[07:18] <daniels> pitti: if the other vnc shite is in universe, then we don't need to do another USN for the software fb core bug
[07:18] <pitti> argh
[07:19] <pitti> infinity: I accidentially uploaded the new pkgstriptranslations
[07:21] <ajmitch> pitti: phpmyadmin patch uploaded to breezy-security
[07:22] <pitti> ajmitch: thanks
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[07:27] <HiddenWolf> holy hell, people seem to have saved up a few uploads for dapper. ;)
[07:29] <Nafallo> where people is daniels ;-)
[07:32] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, just wait till seb wakes up. ;)
[07:32] <Nafallo> hehe
[07:33] <Nafallo> 131 uploads and counting from daniels ;-)
[07:36] <fabbione> new redhat cluster suite is up :)
[07:36] <fabbione> too bad nobody can use it yet :)
[07:36] <daniels> those are just the ones I did yesterday.  i haven't uploaded the ones I've been saving yet.
[07:36] <bob2> there needs to be some way to make /etc/apt/sources.list harder to edit for users
[07:36] <Lathiat> heh
[07:37] <daniels> er, s/yesterday/today/
[07:37] <ajmitch> bob2: sure, write it in a format like elisp
[07:37] <bob2> ajmitch: I was thinking encrypting symmetrically with gpg
[07:37] <ajmitch> same thing
[07:37] <bob2> with the pass phrase "Yes I know what I am doing.  If I use backports, I will not whinge to anyone but the backport people."
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[07:38] <ajmitch> bob2: but, but, backports are official! :)
=== Lathiat smirks
=== bob2 looks around for backports people supporting broken packages in #ubuntu, and comes up empty
=== Yagisan wonders why they never bitch to MS for "backports"
[07:40] <ajmitch> bob2: #ubuntu has beaten all love of humanity out of you? ;)
[07:40] <Lathiat> Yagisan: because they download everything
[07:40] <daniels> bob2: -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark didn't even work for everyone
[07:40] <Lathiat> Yagisan: in new, separate versions
[07:40] <ajmitch> daniels: isn't getting 5000+ FPS in glxgears the most important thing?
[07:40] <bob2> hahaha
[07:40] <daniels> 17500+, dude
[07:40] <daniels> get with the program
=== Lathiat only gets 1000 :(
[07:40] <Lathiat> im totally inadequate
[07:40] <ajmitch> oh sorry
[07:40] <daniels> (and then, bitch about it looking 'slow')
[07:41] <ajmitch> I've got a gf2 mx
[07:41] <Lathiat> should i go buy a new $1600 graphics card now?
=== Yagisan thinks all new users need to acknowledge Ubuntu isn't f*cking Windows
[07:41] <daniels> 'ITS LIKE MY MONITOR ONLY DISPLAYS 75 FRAMES PER SECOND OR SOMETHING'
[07:41] <dredg> it's cos teh packages aren't optimised for i686
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=== Lathiat laughs at dredg 
[07:41] <ajmitch> -ffast-math all the way
[07:41] <Lathiat> daniels: you should add -ffast-math to xorg
[07:42] <Lathiat> and mesa
[07:42] <dredg> you should build them with --with-go-faster-stripes and --omfg-kill-it-in-teh-face
[07:42] <daniels> i'll build mesa with -pipe
[07:42] <HiddenWolf> LOL
[07:43] <HiddenWolf> daniels, dude, where is the xorg package changelog, I was hoping for some good reading. :)
[07:43] <daniels> everything I've uploaded today has been uninteresting, sorry
[07:43] <daniels> just 'New upstream (version|release)', sometimes with 'new versioning scheme (argh|bah|sigh)' appended, sometimes with typos.
[07:43] <ivoks> uninteresting?
[07:44] <ivoks> 300 messages
[07:44] <ivoks> :)
[07:44] <daniels> changelog-wise
[07:44] <bob2> I'm going to make my own internet
[07:44] <daniels> and I've only done 132 uploads, not 300
[07:44] <bob2> with a no-moron rule
[07:44] <HiddenWolf> ow, I was getting all excited. :(
[07:44] <bob2> then there won't be so many pdfs in my google results
[07:44] <dredg> bob2: you're thinking too small
[07:44] <Nafallo> bob2: squid? :-)
[07:44] <dredg> bob2: really. genocide. cleanse the genepool
[07:45] <daniels> HiddenWolf: even xorg_6.9.99.1-1 is really dull
[07:46] <HiddenWolf> daniels, I was hoping for something to match the linux-meta "new trust a kernel developer" changelog. ;)
[07:46] <mdz> bob2: &as_ft=e&as_filetype=pdf
[07:47] <bob2> mdz: you are my new hero.
[07:49] <mdz> speaking of heroes
[07:49] <mdz> everyone remember to bring HALLOWEEN COSTUMES to UBZ
[07:49] <pitti> argh
[07:49] <daniels> what's halloween?
[07:49] <HrdwrBoB> daniels: it's where children get abducted by strangers
[07:49] <mdz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween
[07:50] <bob2> daniels: don't eat any candy any of them give you
[07:50] <mdz> or perhaps hallowe'en in montreal
[07:50] <daniels> hallowen
[07:52] <mdz> in Colin's case, perhaps Pooky Night
[07:52] <daniels> isn't pooky some kind of stuffed toy?
[07:54] <mdz> pitti: for a moment I misread your postfix upload as as postgresql upload
[07:54] <mdz> pitti: and I wondered why postgresql would link to libmysqlclient
[07:54] <pitti> mdz: hehe, plan of the world domination plan, but ssshhhht :-)
[07:55] <pitti> s/plan/part/
[07:55] <bob2> you should totally make a mysql emulation layer for postgresql
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[08:30] <pef> hello
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[08:37] <daniels> pitti: btw, you win the 'first reverted upload in dapper' award
[08:38] <bob2> for?
[08:40] <daniels> pkgstriptranslations 18 and 19
[08:41] <fabbione> well i win the award for the first uninstallable pkg :)
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[08:43] <tepsipakki> FYI: all of the 650 hoary cd's we got have been dealt out
[08:43] <tepsipakki> woohoo
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[08:48] <mae> when will OOo 2.0 final make it into breezy, or will it at all?
[08:48] <daniels> it won't
[08:48] <fabbione> daniels: doko was planning a -updates afaik
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[08:53] <pitti> daniels: yes, I just tossed all the prepared uploads on chinstrap into the queue, but forgot about that one :-/
=== fabbione wins the award for yet another breezy upload :/
[08:54] <daniels> fabbione: you've still got a ways to go yet
[08:55] <fabbione> daniels: i probably managed to fix it before katie run :)
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[08:56] <fabbione> daniels: you have 10 hours advantage due to TZ :)
[08:56] <daniels> hah
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[08:58] <fabbione> hmm i guess katie or lists is very busy
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[09:02] <daniels> fabbione: katie is slammed.  a bunch of my uploads were between four to six hours latent.
[09:03] <fabbione> daniels: she is catching up.. only 5 minutes delay
[09:03] <fabbione> i remember when we did the first sparc import of hoary, it took around 10 hours to make her digest all of it
=== fabbione wonders if MOM is running
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[09:07] <mvo> hey seb128 
[09:07] <ajmitch> hi seb
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[09:07] <fabbione> hey seb128 
[09:07] <fabbione> hey mvo
[09:09] <mvo> hey fabbione 
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[09:09] <seb128> hi mvo fabbione
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[09:10] <fabbione> mvo: any plan to upload apt? ;)
[09:10] <frans-th> hi all, i read that the ubuntu next version the drake have a branding derivative
[09:10] <frans-th> can i join the team?
=== fabbione is really looking forward for the 64bit mem allign fix
[09:11] <frans-th> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrandingForDerivatives
[09:14] <mvo> fabbione: oh, dapper is open :) 
[09:15] <fabbione> mvo: yeps :) you are a 1000 uploads late by now :P
[09:15] <ajmitch> mvo: you'd better catch up
[09:16] <mvo> happens to me all the time ...
[09:16] <zyga> morning 
[09:16] <zyga> dapper is open? :-)
[09:16] <ajmitch> zyga: yes..
[09:17] <frans-th> dapper?
[09:17] <zyga> great :>
[09:17] <frans-th> anyone,know how to join the drapper development?
[09:17] <frans-th> es the branding
[09:17] <frans-th> zyga?
[09:18] <zyga> frans-th: nope, I'm just happy because we can finally move stuff that was 'too late for breezy'
[09:18] <carstenh> "#ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development"
[09:19] <frans-th> motu said must this channel :(
[09:20] <highvoltage> in Afrikaans, "dapper" means "brave" :)
[09:20] <ajmitch> carstenh: the MOTU team can't really help with derivatives..
[09:20] <ajmitch> and he disappears..
[09:20] <carstenh> ajmitch: hmm, you are right in both cases ;)
=== ajmitch didn't get an answer as to what he was actually wanting to do
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[09:29] <dholbach> morning
[09:30] <ajmitch> morning dholbach 
[09:30] <dholbach> hi andrew
[09:30] <seb128> Hi dholbach
[09:30] <dholbach> hey seb
[09:33] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[09:34] <dholbach> hey michael
[09:45] <mvo> jamesh: around?
[09:45] <jamesh> mvo: yeah
[09:46] <mvo> jamesh: I was playing with pyhton-vte and I wonder how the "child-exited" signal is wrapped. are signals done automatically by the code-generator? it seems to be that the (important) pid and status arguments of the signal are missing when it reachs my python code
[09:47] <mvo> jamesh: any idea where I should look? define a child-exited signal in vte.defs?
[09:47] <jamesh> mvo: signals are wrapped automatically based on introspection information
[09:48] <jamesh> mvo: looking at the header file, child-exited doesn't have any extra arguments
[09:50] <mvo> jamesh: right, my bad. there are two "child-exited", one from VteTerminal and one from VteReaper. I need the later one, but asked for the former :/
[09:51] <jamesh> mvo: I don't know if the reaper is exposed through the public API
[09:51] <jamesh> mvo: you could file a bug report asking for the extra signal arguments
[09:52] <torkel> fabbione: ok if I add some things to UbuntuClusters in the wiki?
[09:52] <mvo> jamesh: I think it is (it's at least documented). I will rather do it myself, upstream wasn't very responsive in the past :/
[09:52] <fabbione> torkel: please add them as comments at the end and i will merge them
[09:52] <torkel> fabbione: sure
[09:53] <jamesh> mvo: note that adding the signal arguments would be an API breakage for things like Python
[09:53] <fabbione> torkel: specially if you are not going to be at UBZ, make your comments extremely detailed and clear
[09:54] <mvo> jamesh: I think I will add a wrapper for the reaper. does that sound sane?
[09:56] <jamesh> mvo: I suppose so.
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[10:05] <\sh> grmpf
[10:06] <\sh> -EDANIELSSPAM
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[10:12] <sivang> Morning all
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[10:37] <torkel> fabbione: I have added some comments. Not very detailed yet though
[10:38] <torkel> fabbione: I will try to add more details later...
=== fabbione checks
[10:39] <pitti> ajmitch: hmm, phpmyadmin does not build for some reason
[10:39] <fabbione> torkel: FAI is deployment related. there is another spec for that
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[10:39] <fabbione> torkel: and that's not exactly the target for clusters
[10:40] <torkel> fabbione: so is oscar
[10:40] <fabbione> torkel: *  How to make sure all nodes are up to date?  ... -> there is another spec for this too.. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/network-wide-updates
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[10:40] <sivang> torkel: Oscar the grouch ?
[10:40] <fabbione> torkel: yes, oscar is a full collection of everything..
[10:40] <fabbione> torkel: we need to strip down what's required out of it. it's only under investigation
[10:41] <torkel> fabbione: I added FAI as other deployment tools already was mentioned
[10:42] <fabbione> torkel: *  How to distribute /etc/passwd and/or a.... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/network-authentication
[10:43] <fabbione> *  How to handle monitoring of nodes .. this is definetely another spec.
[10:43] <fabbione> torkel: the spec target is to find cluster implementations
[10:43] <fabbione> and in case how to merge them into ubuntu
[10:44] <fabbione> all the other bits like deploying, monitoring etc, if they are not part of the implementation itself -> another spec
[10:45] <ajmitch> pitti: oh?
[10:45] <ajmitch> pitti: I didn't see a build log last I checked
[10:46] <pitti> ajmitch: no idea why - we should ask infinity when he is awake again
[10:46] <pitti> ajmitch: build logs are not published anyway
[10:46] <pitti> ajmitch: but I get failures emailed 
[10:46] <ajmitch> HM
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[10:47] <torkel> fabbione: sure, but to be able to merge them into ubuntu you have to be aware of all the other specs. Maybe add an link to them from the cluster spec?
[10:48] <torkel> fabbione: feel free to remove/edit my comments if you think they are out of the scope for the spec
[10:49] <fabbione> torkel: yes, they will be linked during the spec discussion
[10:49] <ogra> morning
[10:50] <ogra> pitti, which hal version will dapper get ? g-p-m will need the backend functionallity from the latest i think... thos will obsolete the power-manager package (hal will need a replaces i guess)
[10:53] <pitti> ogra: I already uploaded the latest and greatest (0.5.4)
[10:53] <pitti> ogra: but I expect that more 0.5.x versions will follow
[10:53] <ogra> hmm, i think it 0.5.5 
[10:53] <pitti> not sure whether we will get 0.6, though
[10:53] <pitti> ogra: I didn't see the 0.5.5 annoucement
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[10:54] <ogra> nope, thats current cvs ... but it will get released during dapper ...
[10:54] <ogra> (the controverse hal version with more functionallity :) ) 
[10:54] <pitti> ogra: I think 0.5.5 should be a safe bet
[10:55] <ogra> thats the one that starts to actively manipulate stuff afaik
[10:55] <ogra> at least how i understood hughsie
[10:56] <pitti> ogra: that sounds like hal getting on the wrong track
[10:56] <ogra> nope
[10:56] <pitti> we discussed that on the mailing list
[10:56] <pitti> and I gave my comments there
[10:56] <ogra> not as long as it doesnt get renamed to HIL :)
[10:57] <ogra> if its only a info layer, be it, but ten dont call it HAL
[10:57] <ogra> *then
[10:57] <ogra> i remember we discussed it here before already ;)
[10:57] <ogra> and i dont think its the wrong track :)
[10:57] <pitti> "HAL is a piece of software that provides a view of the various hardware attached to a system"
[10:58] <pitti> ogra: making hal a centralized actor that runs with root privs *is* wrong
[10:58] <ogra> it should also provide a possibility for user interaction
[10:58] <pitti> it would become the single point of failure, and prefered (and highly vulnerable) attack vector
[10:58] <pitti> ogra: no, there should be specialized daemons or at least callouts for that
[10:59] <ogra> lets not have this discussion again, you wont convince me and i wont convince you and in the end its davidz's call :)
[10:59] <ajmitch> pitti: I blame yada for any & all phpmyadmin issues
[10:59] <pitti> ajmitch: I did not get a FTBFS mail, so I blame the buildds
[10:59] <ajmitch> pitti: it's more fun to blame yada
[11:00] <pitti> ogra: right :-) I try to convince him
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[11:00] <ogra> heh :)
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[11:04] <ogra> dholbach, the new gnome-power-manager for you to play with for your BOF is in ... have fun with it :)
[11:08] <pitti> mvo: are you interested in the "hide admin programs for non-sudoers" spec?
[11:08] <\sh> damn
[11:09] <mvo> pitti: a bit, I would like to hide "update-notifier" as well
[11:10] <pitti> mvo: I'd be interested to write a small program that decides whether the user has sudo rights
[11:11] <pitti> mvo: but I don't want to mess with the higher levels (the gnome part)
[11:11] <mvo> pitti: I think a small program is all we need, a lot of work has been done here during SOC (IIRC)
[11:13] <ogra> pitti, mvo, YAY for that !! its urgently needed for edubuntu ...
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[11:14] <pitti> ogra: this little backend is a bit delicate and needs suid root, that's why I want to have an eye on it
[11:15] <ogra> yup, thats fine as long as i get the functionallity :)
[11:15] <ogra> its very high priority for me...
[11:15] <pitti> mvo: we just need a small program "user-is-admin" that decides whether the user can suid to root and execute arbitrary programs, and deliver the result in the exit code, right?
[11:16] <seb128> pitti: I am, I give some google bounty work to my student to hide the admin stuff to non-admin users
[11:16] <pitti> seb128: is there any backend yet?
[11:16] <ogra> pitti, cant it just read the groups and if admin isnt in the list act like needed ? 
[11:16] <seb128> pitti: no, but the GNOME part is done
[11:16] <pitti> ogra: that only works for the breezy default config
[11:17] <pitti> ogra: not for warty updates or customized ones
[11:17] <seb128> pitti: it's hacky, atm it works on "are you a member of the admin group"
[11:17] <pitti> seb128: ah, cool
[11:17] <\sh> ogra: it should be available for all linux distros ;)
[11:17] <pitti> seb128: ok, that covers at least 90% of the cases
[11:17] <ogra> pitti, enough for me ;) edubuntu didnt exist before breezy
[11:17] <pitti> seb128: I thought about adding a sudo option that does that, to reuse the already existing sudo code
[11:18] <seb128> pitti: remember, we poke you about that with lllmanuelll
[11:18] <mvo> pitti: a small app like that would be great. prefereable with a argument "can user do a spefic command"
[11:18] <pitti> mvo: yes, even better
[11:18] <pitti> mvo: like a sudo --dry-run
[11:19] <seb128> pitti: we could use "sudo -l <cmd>"
[11:19] <pitti> mvo: sudo --permitted, or whatever
[11:19] <seb128> pitti: but we need to use "Defaults listpw=never" which is not the current default
[11:19] <seb128> or it asks for a pwd
[11:19] <pitti> seb128: right, we must avoid asking for a password
[11:19] <seb128> listpw=never :)
[11:19] <pitti> or that, right
[11:20] <pitti> seems that almost everything is already theren
[11:20] <pitti> s/n$//
[11:20] <seb128> hum
[11:20] <seb128> the ubuntu sudo doesn't has this feature :/
[11:20] <pitti> well, and it would break upgrades
[11:20] <pitti> a little coding is necessary, I'm afraid
[11:20] <seb128> yeah :/
[11:21] <pitti> mvo: shall we two take AutomatedProblemReports again?
[11:21] <pitti> mvo: implementing this early could be highly beneficial for stabilizing dapper
[11:21] <sivang> seb128: anything I can offer a hand with ? are you talking about users-admin ?
[11:21] <seb128> pitti: I really want this debug archive and the automatic debug bt stuff
[11:21] <pitti> seb128: me too
[11:21] <seb128> pitti: we spend like half of the bug triage ressources to ask for debug backtraces
[11:21] <seb128> and to make debug packages
[11:22] <seb128> and people don't get the issue again, so never get a good bt, etc
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: and in general I have the feeling that breezy's gnome is pretty unstable
[11:22] <seb128> sivang: pick any g-s-t bug and fix it :) no, no users-admin
[11:22] <pitti> unless I get a second security team member, I won't have too many time for it
[11:22] <pitti> but it is necessary
[11:22] <seb128> pitti: crashy you mean?
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: yes, I got some random nautilus crashes recently, which I could not reproduce
[11:22] <pitti> things like that
[11:23] <pitti> or that gthumb bug when changing to /
[11:23] <seb128> sending a backtrace is useful you know :)
[11:23] <seb128> right, but gthumb is not a part of GNOME and mvo has fixed the bug
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[11:24] <dholbach_>  seb128, pitti: going to upload gthumb in a sec
[11:24] <sivang> seb128: but you'd need to have -dbg installed all over to get a meaningful one, no?
[11:24] <pitti> ajmitch: any reason why you created a new ProactiveSecurityBof page instead of using the old -Roadmap?
[11:24] <dholbach_> the changes were to much to get them in before breezy, we'll push it through backports
[11:24] <pitti> sivang: that's what we want to change
[11:24] <crimsun> pitti: something along the lines of http://www.sudo.ws/pipermail/sudo-users/2004-March/001976.html ?
[11:24] <seb128> dholbach_: the fix is a one liner
[11:24] <seb128> dholbach_: that's a good candidate for -update
[11:25] <mvo> seb128: I haven't uploaded it IIRC, should we move it to breezy-updates? 
[11:25] <dholbach_> hm, yes might be, but the changes in 2.6.8 fixed quite some other stuff too
[11:25] <sivang> pitti: I'm interested in that as well, should I subscribe to AutoProblemReports if not already have?
[11:25] <pitti> sure
[11:25] <seb128> mvo: yep
[11:26] <seb128> dholbach_: stop trying to push new versions to a stable distro
[11:26] <pitti> crimsun: hm, but doesn't that only decide whether or not the user needs a password?
[11:26] <pitti> dholbach_: why not just throw the patch into breezy-updates?
[11:27] <dholbach_> seb128: that's why i chose backports, we have it now, i don't see why we shouldnt use it
[11:27] <dholbach_> pitti: right
[11:27] <crimsun> pitti: no, whether the user is qualified to use sudo. The next message in the thread is more explicit: "hoping that there was something in the usage that I was missing with
[11:27] <crimsun> sudo that would not prompt me for a password, and would just silently
[11:27] <crimsun> sorry
[11:27] <crimsun> fail (nonzero error code response) and/or a simple stderr error msg"
[11:27] <ajmitch> pitti: I just wanted somewhere clean to start & write up some notes before UBZ
[11:29] <crimsun> pitti: ah, I see what you're saying now (RE: tokens)
[11:30] <pitti> crimsun: right; -S -v < /dev/null does not make any difference for an admin and non-admin user
[11:30] <pitti> ajmitch: do you want to lead that and I second? or the other way round? any preferences?
[11:30] <pitti> ajmitch: I'd rather play Second
[11:30] <ajmitch> pitti: doesn't worry me
[11:31] <ajmitch> you'll probably have plenty of BOFs to lead :)
[11:31] <pitti> ajmitch: I have too much other stuff to do to be able to actively code
[11:31] <pitti> yes
[11:31] <ajmitch> ok, I'll lead then
[11:32] <pitti> ajmitch: I add you, I'm editting the page anyway
[11:32] <ajmitch> ok
[11:35] <pitti> ajmitch: will you add something to the initial spec?
[11:36] <ajmitch> yes
[11:36] <ajmitch> irc meeting in a few hours for it
[11:36] <seb128> meeting for what?
[11:36] <ajmitch> ubuntu-hardened specs
[11:37] <seb128> k
[11:40] <mdke> dholbach, around?
[11:40] <daniels> for those that can't wait for NEW, I just bombed chinstrap:~daniels/tmp/dapper/ at the archive.  have at it.
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[11:41] <dholbach>  mdke yes
[11:41] <Keybuk> tricky decision
[11:41] <mdke> dholbach, query
[11:41] <Keybuk> am going to reinstall my laptop ... do I go for breezy, or do I play it dangerous and put dapper on it? :p
[11:41] <mdke> both
[11:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: you already asked :) go for breezy
[11:45] <fabbione> Keybuk: pointless to ruin your spare time at UBZ fixing your lappy ;)
[11:45] <ogra> how many hours is dapper old ? 12 ?
[11:46] <dholbach> less i guess
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[11:46] <fabbione> ogra: probably..
=== ogra thinks Keybuk loves the risk :)
[11:46] <fabbione> with at least a 1000 pkgs
[11:46] <ajmitch> that's why we have LVM
[11:46] <fabbione> ajmitch: ehehhe
[11:46] <Keybuk> I lurve the disk
[11:46] <Keybuk> uh, risk
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[11:50] <Keybuk> arrrrgh
[11:50] <Keybuk> Firefox has opened a movie
[11:50] <Keybuk> I now have to be very careful to note which web pages I have open, and what form contents havent been saved
[11:50] <Keybuk> because it's going to crash when I try and move off this page
=== Keybuk criess
[11:51] <Diziet> I wasn't aware of this bug ...
[11:51] <ogra> probably a dapper bug :)
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[11:52] <Keybuk> Diziet: it's entirely consistent
[11:52] <Keybuk> if the totem video thing opens
[11:52] <Keybuk> firefox crashes
[11:52] <Treenaks> Keybuk: I have that too.. on all kinds of videos
[11:52] <Treenaks> Keybuk: mpegs, theora, divx, etc.
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[11:54] <Diziet> Hmm.  Similar to 14882, perhaps.  If that could be said to be coherent enough for things to be similar to it.
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[11:59] <infinity> pitti : !
[11:59] <pitti> Hi infinity 
[12:00] <infinity> pitti : You uploaded pkgstriptranslations with the distaddfile change? :/
[12:00] <\sh> wow...the syncs are flying in...the uploads are spamming my inbox...great
[12:00] <infinity> pitti : Oh, then reverted it. :)
[12:00] <infinity> pitti : Yay.
[12:01] <pitti> infinity: yes, sorry
[12:01] <infinity> No harm done.
[12:01] <pitti> infinity: I just uploaded all my stacked .changes files
[12:01] <pitti> infinity: can you please have a look why phpmyadmin doesn't build?
[12:01] <pitti> infinity: (breezy-security)
[12:02] <Diziet> (Why is it possible for a plugin to crash the browser, anyway?)
[12:02] <infinity> Did it fail?
[12:03] <pitti> infinity: no, I did not get any mail
[12:03] <infinity> Nope, me neither
[12:04] <Mithrandir> Diziet: because it's dlopened and run in the browser's address space?
=== infinity goes to find it.
[12:04] <Diziet> mith: What a ridiculous way to do things.
=== ajmitch only got the accept mail for phpmyadmin
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[12:05] <Mithrandir> Diziet: how would you rather do it?
=== infinity waits for rothera to upload crap...
[12:07] <infinity> pitti / ajmitch : Anyhow, it build fine, just hasn't uploaded (yet)... Tracking that down.
[12:07] <ajmitch> infinity: thanks
[12:07] <Diziet> Any way that protects the browser from a buggy plugin.  It's not like there aren't loads of ways of doing that.
[12:07] <ajmitch> there goes my chance to blame yada again
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[12:09] <infinity> Hrm, that went fine.
[12:10] <infinity> ajmitch : As it turns out, you're just impatient.
[12:10] <ajmitch> infinity: surely not
=== ajmitch uploaded a few hours ago :)
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[12:10] <ajmitch> I was just told the build failed
[12:11] <infinity> Yeah, pitti's just trying to make me look bad. ;)
[12:12] <ajmitch> heh
[12:12] <pitti> infinity: to the contrary, I just want to demonstrate the world how quickly you can solve all kinds of buildd problems
[12:12] <pitti> :-)
=== infinity laughs.
[12:13] <infinity> I'm not even awake yet, either.
=== infinity bows.
[12:13] <infinity> THank you, I'll be here all week.
[12:13] <ajmitch> what timezone are you in now?
[12:13] <fabbione> infinity: i think amd64 buildd is not uploading?
[12:13] <infinity> ajmitch : Location, or sleep pattern?
[12:13] <ajmitch> infinity: location
[12:13] <slomo> pitti: did you test the mplayer fixes on both distris?
[12:13] <infinity> fabbione : Which one? :)
[12:13] <pitti> infinity: you know the famous scene from Star Trek where Scotty needs 8 weeks for repairs?
[12:13] <\sh> dapper update *harhar*
=== kamstrup [n=kamstrup@kamstrup.imf.au.dk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:14] <pitti> slomo: testing is your responsibility :-)
[12:14] <infinity> ajmitch : Melbourne, +10... Sleep pattern, no idea.
[12:14] <fabbione> infinity: probably all of them.. if there is one going..
[12:14] <ajmitch> heh
[12:14] <pitti> slomo: I just looked at the patch
[12:14] <fabbione> infinity: i can only see ppc and i386 pkgs coming down via rsync
[12:14] <kamstrup> Is pygtk broken in Breezy?
[12:14] <infinity> Oh, yay.  Go me.
[12:14] <ajmitch> kamstrup: not that we've heard
[12:14] <slomo> pitti: bah... ok, then i will upload on monday ;) need to create warty and hoary chroots...
[12:14] <kamstrup> Yesterday morning I start getting "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'CAPI'"
[12:14] <infinity> I didn't re-enable the buildd user's crontab after I stole my buildds back from Kinnison. :)
[12:14] <infinity> La la la!
[12:14] <kamstrup> whenever I import gtk
[12:14] <fabbione> infinity: ahahahha
[12:15] <pitti> slomo: well, if the patch works on breezy, it will work on warty and hoary, too, right?
[12:15] <ajmitch> kamstrup: you've been installed anything extra in that time?
[12:15] <ajmitch> oh dear
[12:15] <ajmitch> my english is going downhill rapidly :)
[12:15] <kamstrup> ajmitch, yes and no...
[12:15] <kamstrup> I installed some stuff on my box at home....
[12:16] <slomo> pitti: yes, it should... but there's a remaining risk imho ;) the stuff builds fine on breezy (even the warty/hoary packages) but i don't have any pbuilder chroots for hoary and warty yet
[12:16] <kamstrup> I figured I broke something, but I tried it on my uni-box just now...
[12:16] <kamstrup> -- never done anything else than dist-upgrading on it...
[12:16] <kamstrup> and now
[12:16] <pitti> slomo: right, you should test if it builds
[12:16] <kamstrup> mikkel@smallpox:~$ python -c "import gtk"
[12:16] <kamstrup> Traceback (most recent call last):
[12:16] <kamstrup>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
[12:16] <kamstrup>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 37, in ?
[12:16] <kamstrup>     from _gtk import *
[12:16] <kamstrup> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'CAPI'
[12:17] <pitti> slomo: but testing whether it *works* is probably enough to do it on one releaes
[12:17] <ajmitch> kamstrup: sounds more like an #ubuntu question, it doesn't happen on a standard install
[12:17] <ajmitch> & CAPI related things seem to be ISDN
[12:17] <slomo> pitti: ok, will do on monday ;)
[12:17] <kamstrup> this *is* a standard install
[12:18] <\sh> kamstrup: 
[12:18] <\sh> shermann@nc6000-laptop:~/pbuilder/etc$ python -c "import gtk"
[12:18] <\sh> shermann@nc6000-laptop:~/pbuilder/etc$
[12:18] <kamstrup> I tried to get someone one #ubuntu to help me, but not much luck
[12:18] <\sh> nothing
=== ajmitch is probably wrong about isdn though :)
[12:18] <kamstrup> This freaks me out...
[12:18] <\sh> kamstrup: new default install of breezy
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[12:22] <ajmitch> hi sabdfl 
[12:23] <kamstrup> ajmitch, sh: One last thing and I'll stop buggin you :)
[12:23] <kamstrup> python -c "import gtk; label = gtk.Label ('Hello world'); win = gtk.Window (); win.add (label); win.show_all (); gtk.main()"
[12:23] <kamstrup> If this works for you I go shut my trap :)
[12:23] <seb128> works for me
=== ajmitch also
=== mvo too
[12:24] <kamstrup> well, must be me then... Which is a good thing :)
=== zyga is back from work :-)
[12:28] <sabdfl> hey all
[12:29] <jsgotangco> hey sabdfl 
[12:29] <jsgotangco> moin
[12:29] <sabdfl> moin moin! gearing up for montreal...
[12:29] <jsgotangco> nice
=== jsgotangco dies in envy...
[12:30] <Diziet> Morning.
[12:30] <Kamion> ok, thank christ I arranged for dapper-changes mail filtering a few days ago
[12:31] <fabbione> Kamion: ehehhe
[12:31] <mjg59> I so need to set up dynamic DNS
[12:32] <fabbione> point
[12:32] <fabbione> i should set ip over dns
[12:33] <Lathiat> hehe
[12:35] <Diziet> There's no space in the spec template for `other versions of this same kind of thing'.  AKA `related'.
[12:37] <\sh> moins sabdfl 
[12:38] <\sh> woo..my first build with new dapper pbuilder ,-)
[12:39] <Lathiat> hehe
[12:39] <Lathiat> cool
[12:39] <Kamion> which is a bit useless since dapper isn't debootstrappable. I'm fixing that now ...
[12:39] <Diziet> mjg59: dynamic.greenend.org.uk ?  /info/dyndns.text.
[12:39] <dholbach>  merci, Kamion 
[12:39] <\sh> kamstrup: pbuilder-breezy create -> cp breezy-base.tgz dapper-base.tgz -> pbuilder-dapper update ,->
[12:40] <\sh> aeh kamion
[12:40] <mjg59> Diziet: Nah, I want to tie it into DHCP so the HUGE PILE OF LAPTOPS have consistent DNS
[12:41] <Diziet> Oh, I _see_.  Have fun.
[12:41] <Mithrandir> mjg59: that's easy enough to do.  I think it
[12:41] <Mithrandir> 's documented too
[12:46] <Keybuk> Kamion: that's where verp-based delivery comes in handy
[12:46] <Kamion> jbailey: hope you noticed that initramfs-tools got autosynced from Debian ...
[12:46] <Keybuk> it's resilient to jdub randomly subscribing you to ultra-high-traffic lists :p
[12:47] <ajmitch> Kamion: that sounds like a recipe for disaster
[12:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ew, that's suckage. :-(
=== dholbach won't reboot anything :)
[12:49] <ogra> dholbach, you actually *run* dapper ? 
[12:49] <tseng> dholbach++
[12:50] <ajmitch> ogra: you mean you don't? 
[12:50] <dholbach> :))
[12:50] <ogra> crzy guys
=== ajmitch only has a pbuilder setup so far :)
[12:50] <\sh> hahaha...
[12:50] <Kinnison> Keybuk: verp-based delivery?
[12:50] <tseng> i was about to debootstrap
[12:50] <\sh> ready to break kubuntu dapper ,->
[12:50] <ajmitch> tseng: dist-upgrade from breezy will be the only way
[12:51] <Keybuk> Kinnison: ie. I'm subscribed as scott-ubuntu-changes@netsplit.com, and have a delivery rule for that which explicitly puts it in the right folder
[12:51] <tseng> ajmitch: i know.
[12:51] <jsgotangco> crazy
[12:51] <Kinnison> Keybuk: aah
=== pitti [n=pitti@195.227.105.180]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:51] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I do that based on the List-Id :-)
[12:51] <jdub> good morning freedom lovers
[12:51] <Keybuk> Kinnison: that doesn't work when jdub subscribes you to the new list ... see above
[12:51] <tseng> good morning less perky jdub 
[12:51] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: Keybuk has it all hacked into his qmail crack.
[12:51] <Keybuk> you get 160 new mails in your inbox that fell through your filters :p
[12:51] <ajmitch> hey jdub 
[12:51] <pitti> Hey hey jdub 
[12:51] <ogra> jdub, already switched to dapper ? 
[12:52] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: another fix is to beat people who subscribe you to random lists.
[12:52] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: yes, sadly that didn't stop him doing it *again* this time :p
[12:52] <ajmitch> yay, 404 errors on everything when I try a dist-upgrade
[12:52] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: you didn't beat him well enough. :-)
[12:53] <Kinnison> Keybuk: List-Id:.*-changes@lists.(ubuntu|canonical)
[12:54] <\sh> lets wait for katie
[12:54] <jdub> ogra: heh, no
[12:54] <jdub> tseng: mmm, still sick
[12:55] <jdub> Keybuk: dude, i will keep doing it as punishment for your lame procmail and mta skillz
[12:55] <Keybuk> jdub: I don't use procmail
[12:55] <jdub> (but did fall into my cunning trap!)
[12:56] <jdub> EXACTLY!
[12:56] <\sh> there is nothing better then have server side imap filtering ,-)
[12:56] <ajmitch> jdub: you didn't subscribe everyone to ubuntu-changes-auto? 
[12:57] <jdub> nein
[12:57] <fabbione> jdub: wouldn't be much easier to just have ubuntu-changes@ instead of a list per release?
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[12:57] <\sh> hehehe...jdub learns german...very nice :)
[12:58] <Diziet> `Brainstorm ideas for making Ubuntu a fun and exciting server platform' ?!
[12:58] <Robot101> lol
[12:58] <Diziet> fabbione, have you been eating those mushrooms again ?
[12:58] <ajmitch> Diziet: security holes are 'fun & exciting'
[12:58] <jsgotangco> much fun than quake?
[01:00] <\sh> "Running DoS Attacks randomly from Ubuntu Server install to radom internet hosts like microsoft.com, apple.com or ebay.com, to nag some sysadmins, this is not in main"
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[01:01] <Seveas> \sh, it's been proposed :)
[01:02] <\sh> Kids, don't do this at home ,-)
=== mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:02] <Seveas> ./1337-ddos-tool --duration=1week www.microsoft.com
[01:02] <Seveas> :p
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[01:04] <fabbione> Diziet: dude.. why don't you read WHO did open it and ask the same question to mdz?
[01:05] <fabbione> Diziet: anyway that one is mine :)
[01:05] <fabbione> Diziet: so keep your hands off :P
[01:05] <Lathiat> Do i have to have my key signed before it'l be allowed for universe upload?
[01:06] <fabbione> Lathiat: better if you do
[01:06] <fabbione> spaeking of which
[01:06] <Lathiat> eh, just i can't until i get my passport, which wont be for a while
[01:06] <Lathiat> as in a month or more
[01:06] <fabbione> did we plan a keysign party at UBZ?
=== spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:06] <fabbione> Lathiat: are you coming to ubz?
[01:07] <Lathiat> fab	no
[01:07] <Lathiat> fabbione: no
[01:07] <fabbione> ok
[01:07] <Robot101> can someone fix irssi so it recognises magic keypresses in the cases when they're not the only character returned from read()? :)
[01:07] <Lathiat> Robot101: its there for a reason
[01:07] <Lathiat> Robot101: its paste detection
[01:07] <Lathiat> and it happens because my session locks up
[01:08] <Lathiat> because the I/O on this machien is locked to hell
[01:08] <Lathiat> so irssi locks up a bit when flushing its logs out
[01:08] <Robot101> no, its broken on low latency links
[01:08] <Robot101> er
[01:08] <Robot101> high latency
[01:08] <mjg59> High
[01:08] <Lathiat> Robot101: you mean high liglatency
[01:08] <Lathiat> see just happened then :)
[01:08] <Robot101> if I can type fast enough to make it think I'm pasting, it's fucked
[01:08] <Lathiat> Robot101: no
[01:08] <Robot101> >1 character a time does not imply a paste is occuring
[01:08] <Lathiat> Robot101: it works on how quickly characters come in in succession
[01:08] <jdub> fabbione: for some reason, we decided against that - don't quite remember why off-hand
[01:08] <Lathiat> and if your ssh locks up for a second
[01:08] <Lathiat> or irssi does
[01:09] <jdub> fabbione: oh, because you want to know which release an upload was for
[01:09] <Lathiat> all your characters come in at once
[01:09] <Lathiat> so it looks like a paste
[01:09] <Lathiat> it could possibly be made a little less sensitive
[01:09] <jdub> fabbione: for instance, i've had emails to warty and hoary changes lists in the last few days
[01:09] <fabbione> jdub: ahhh so that's why it's written in the .changes :)
[01:09] <Robot101> Lathiat: yes, it's buggy
[01:09] <Lathiat> Robot101: its not buggy
[01:09] <Lathiat> Robot101: its just a result of tryign to guess things
[01:09] <jdub> fabbione: we could make it more obvious in the subject, but this seems to have worked so far
[01:09] <Lathiat> it could be 'tuned' to be better
[01:09] <Lathiat> so its less 'buggy' in more circumstances than not
[01:09] <fabbione> jdub: ok
[01:09] <Robot101> yes it is, sending literal tabs that the user has typed is a bug
[01:10] <Lathiat> but theres the flip side, of being not sensitive enough to detect some smaller pastes
[01:10] <Lathiat> Robot101: its *not* a bug
[01:10] <Lathiat> Robot101: its paste detection
[01:10] <Robot101> even if it's the result of a poor heuristic it's still a bug
[01:10] <Lathiat> in past mode, it sends tabs literally
[01:10] <Lathiat> *paste
[01:10] <Lathiat> along with most other control codes
[01:10] <Lathiat> the bug is just that the paste detection is sensitive to too small strings which are often caused by temporary packet drops and/or/ program freezes
[01:10] <jdub> seb128: oh man, now i want to run dapper!
[01:11] <Robot101> the resulting behaviour where I type la<tab> and this gets sent over IRC is a bug. :)
[01:11] <Lathiat> Robot101: right, but the *bug* isnt that it prints tabs literally
[01:11] <Lathiat> thats just a sysymptom
[01:11] <Lathiat> im waiting for irssi2 :)
[01:11] <Robot101> oh this depends on how you define bug :)
[01:11] <Lathiat> where i can attach a local client
[01:11] <Lathiat> and it automatically picks up all my sessions and servers over 1 port
[01:11] <Lathiat> and puts the windows and scrollback back hwo they were
[01:12] <Lathiat> that == win
[01:12] <jdub> infinity: ping
[01:12] <Lathiat> i mean you can use irssi proxy but its ugly and you have to keep up with change  to servers you make, etc
[01:12] <\sh> Lathiat: it's calleed dircproxy?
[01:12] <Lathiat> fabbione: so, what can i do about my key issue?
[01:12] <Lathiat> not being able to upload for the first month ro two of dapper is goign to kill a large patch of contributions
[01:12] <fabbione> Lathiat: do you live close to any developer?
[01:12] <ajmitch> Lathiat: surely you've got people in perth & some ID?
[01:13] <Lathiat> fabbione: jamesh
[01:13] <Lathiat> fabbione: but i have no id
[01:13] <Lathiat> no drivers license, no passport yet
[01:13] <fabbione> Lathiat: no ID at all?
[01:13] <ajmitch> Lathiat: get a drivers license ASAP :)
[01:13] <fabbione> Lathiat: sorry, without ID ... nothing i can do
[01:13] <Lathiat> ajmitch: its on my todo list :)
[01:13] <Lathiat> fabbione: exactly, hence asking whether i really need it signed to be uploadable
[01:13] <\sh> Lathiat: u r not living in a cave, have a beard and you're real name is not usama? ;)
[01:13] <fabbione> Lathiat: well the point is that there must be a way to identify you as person
[01:13] <\sh> s/you're/your/
[01:14] <fabbione> Lathiat: without ID you don't even exist :)
[01:14] <Lathiat> i have a birth certificate
[01:14] <Lathiat> but people tend to reject that sortof thing
[01:14] <fabbione> Lathiat: it's useless without a pic
[01:14] <Lathiat> (no photo)
[01:14] <Lathiat> fabbione: right
[01:14] <fabbione> exactly
[01:14] <Lathiat> i have nothing with a photo
[01:14] <jamesh> fabbione: yet it can be enough to obtain photo ID ...
=== KenSentMe [n=Miranda@dsl-82-199-136-186.dutchweb.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:15] <Lathiat> fabbione: this sort of thign is a real bitch for younger people
[01:15] <Lathiat> fortunately im getting a passport soon to goto lca2006 in jan
[01:15] <jamesh> Lathiat: get an 18+ card
[01:15] <Lathiat> jamesh: im 17 :)
[01:15] <fabbione> jamesh: well you know as much as i do that gpg key sign is also based on trust between people.. if you trust Lathiat, you can sign his key
[01:15] <fabbione> certainly i am not going to without an ID
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[01:15] <fabbione> given that would be the first time i will ever meet him
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[01:17] <jamesh> I know Lathiat as "that guy who was harassing Linus at LCA2003"
=== ajmitch doesn't feel like flying to perth to sign a key, even though he's met Lathiat 
=== Lathiat smirks
[01:17] <ajmitch> then he was 'that ipv6 guy' at lca2004
[01:17] <stub> The authentication server is going down in 11 minutes which means the wikis will be in read only mode. Downtime is expected to be 30 mins.
[01:18] <ajmitch> oh goody, an RFP for pqm in debian
=== ajmitch retitles
[01:23] <fabbione> siretart: igor is going back in the rotation as we speak
[01:23] <siretart> fabbione: cool! :)
[01:23] <fabbione> siretart: ehhe
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[01:24] <infinity> jdub : pong.
[01:24] <jdub> infinity: mysql 5 by default in dapper?
[01:25] <fabbione> jdub: what did you smoke today? ;)
[01:25] <fabbione> we don't even have 4.1 in main
[01:26] <infinity> jdub : No, 4.1
[01:26] <ajmitch> fabbione: but 5.0 has been blessed today :)
[01:26] <infinity> jdub : 5.0 isn't ready.
[01:26] <Kamion> GAH, GAH, GAH, GAH
[01:26] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/no-more-devfs
[01:26] <smurf> fabbione: so? If gnome can get in with a week's notice, surely 6months for a stable mysql should be OK ;-)
[01:26] <jdub> infinity: mysql dudes seem to think 5.0.5 is
[01:26] <Kamion> "As of Ubuntu 5.10, the Ubuntu installer relies on devfs, which is a deprecated Linux feature."
[01:26] <Kamion> *no it doesn't*
[01:26] <fabbione> Kamion: uh.. didn't you add that one?
[01:26] <Kamion> no
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[01:26] <infinity> jdub : Colour me crazy, but I don't tend to trust MySQL upstream.
[01:26] <fabbione> Kamion: ah ok...
[01:27] <infinity> jdub : I'll look into it, though.
[01:27] <fabbione> Kamion: i did ask to be added as drafter
=== jdub colours inside the lines
[01:27] <Kamion> we should stop using devfs *paths*, but that's staggeringly low priority
[01:27] <fabbione> Kamion: just kill it
[01:27] <jdub> infinity: ok, i'll cc you on email
[01:27] <fabbione> Kamion: well take into account that .14 has no devfs at all
[01:27] <fabbione> Kamion: can d-i cope with that? i assume yes
[01:27] <Kamion> fabbione: who cares? the installer doesn't
[01:27] <fabbione> Kamion: ok
[01:27] <ogra> Kamion, ah, come on, its an easy to solve BOF then .... low hanging fruit :)
=== fabbione doesn't
[01:27] <jdub> infinity: (sorry, 5.0.15)
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[01:28] <stub> save your wiki pages. Going into read only mode any minute.
[01:29] <Kamion> ogra: no, I'm annoyed that the specs page implies that I didn't do something which I did nearly a year ago; and I'm not excited about more BOFs :P
[01:29] <ogra> yes, its rather windfall then ...
[01:30] <ajmitch> Kamion: so you can move it to implemented already :)
[01:31] <infinity> jdub : I'll evaluate it and see if it's doable.  It would further my ReducingDuplication spec to promote 5.0 to the default and kick the rest out, so we'll see if it's actually viable.
[01:31] <jdub> infinity: what's your ubuntu address?
[01:31] <infinity> jdub : I suspect the first couple of months of 5.0 GA will be bumpy, so we'll see.
[01:32] <infinity> jdub : adconrad
[01:32] <jdub> ta
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[01:45] <jdub> new poll on the fridge
[01:46] <jdub> "Dapper Drake is a... a) Duck! b) Dragon!"
[01:46] <Lathiat> haha
[01:46] <fabbione> ahaha
[01:46] <pitti> jdub: that was unavoidable, wasn't it...
[01:46] <Treenaks> jdub: did you get my mail re: video time on Love Day?
[01:46] <ogra> voted
=== pitti added the 5th vote
[01:47] <jsgotangco> i like duck just to coincide with the bird flu scare...
=== Treenaks 4
=== jsgotangco hides
[01:47] <mdke> you better all be voting duck
=== mdke shakes his fist
[01:47] <maswan> ducks are good
[01:47] <Treenaks> ducks are food!
[01:48] <maswan> I managed the second vote even, before someone voted wrong. ;)
[01:48] <Lathiat> and in the first quarter DUCK IS IN THE LEAD
[01:48] <Lathiat> only 9 votes in...
[01:48] <Treenaks> 6/3 now
=== fabbione sighs
[01:48] <jdub> Treenaks: mail to me?
[01:48] <Treenaks> jdub: yeah
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[01:49] <Nafallo> duck!
[01:49] <maswan> http://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/bilder/20050706-Ute/index.html?view=IMG_5222.JPG
[01:49] <maswan> see? ducks are cute
[01:49] <jdub> Treenaks: i got your mail to sounder
[01:49] <jdub> Treenaks: and some pgp signing stuff
[01:49] <mdke> maswan, nice
[01:50] <ogra> maswan, do you have any statistics about edubuntu iso downloads ? 
[01:51] <Nafallo> maswan: is that CC-licensed so that ogra can tell ubuntu-artwork about it? ;-)
[01:51] <Treenaks> jdub: hm, I sent you  another mail after that
[01:51] <Treenaks> let me check my server logas
[01:51] <ogra> Nafallo, why me ? 
[01:51] <maswan> ogra: http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/
[01:52] <Nafallo> ogra: you are active there :-)
[01:52] <maswan> Nafallo: Hmm.. Ok. Now it is. ;)
[01:52] <Treenaks> jdub: see pm
[01:52] <\sh> lol
[01:52] <ogra> Nafallo, i'm there, but far from being called active ;)
[01:52] <maswan> ogra: that doesn't seem to list edubuntu though. :/
[01:52] <\sh> I see sip4-qt3 build ok...but don't have a dapper-changes mail..
[01:52] <ogra> maswan, yes, just noticed
[01:53] <jdub> maswan: er, wow, some interesting comparative stats there
[01:54] <maswan> note that those lack the redirected isos
[01:54] <ogra> at least edubuntu it jumped to place 48 on distrowatch fro the last month :)
[01:54] <ogra> s/it/is
[01:54] <maswan> we will be putting in the stats from the redirect hosts in a while
[01:55] <pef> will OpenOffice.org2 be bakported to Breezy ?
[01:58] <Nafallo> ogra: anyway, I sent the link to the mailing-list ;-)
[01:59] <ogra> fine :)
[01:59] <ogra> \sh, did you use dapper as distro in the changelog ? 
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[02:00] <\sh> ogra: no ;) 
[02:00] <ajmitch> \sh: time to break that muscle memory ;)
[02:01] <\sh> ogra: I have a katie mail, but no dapper mail, but I see the source already build on the buildds 
[02:01] <\sh> ajmitch: the question of ogra was (IMHO) more rethorical
[02:01] <siretart> do we already have merge bugs for packages requiring merging from debian?
[02:01] <ajmitch> \sh: I know, but I've got to break the habit ;)
[02:01] <siretart> I cannot find them in bugzilla
[02:01] <Kamion> siretart: no
[02:01] <ogra> \sh, probably daniels fault :) he's keeping listserver and buildds to busy
[02:01] <ajmitch> siretart: probably not yet
[02:01] <\sh> siretart: MoM is not running 
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[02:01] <Kamion> ogra: oh come on, there are far more autosyncs than X uploads ...
[02:02] <ogra> true :)
[02:02] <\sh> ogra: it's build cleanly..but I think it's daniels fault to spam the mailserver and mailman ,-)
[02:02] <ogra> Kamion, but the autosyncs dont spam my nbox ;)
[02:02] <ogra> *inbox
[02:02] <\sh> ogra: u r not subscribed to ubuntu-changes-auto ?
[02:02] <ogra> nope
[02:03] <\sh> ogra: u should..it's healthy and fun...and u see that your postfix + cyrus imapd 
[02:03] <ogra> i look at the archive if i look for something
[02:03] <Nafallo> the auto-changes are done already, no?
[02:03] <\sh> + spam assassin and virus checker is working 
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[02:11] <\sh> -EANNOYED  two random evo crashes in the last 3 mins
[02:12] <mvo> \sh: upgraded to dapper already :P ?
[02:12] <\sh> mvo: no...bug is known upstream..."threading for beginners" problem ,)
[02:12] <Seveas> dapper-changes@ is stressing my evo too :)
[02:13] <\sh> mvo: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317790
[02:13] <Treenaks> Seveas: that's why I use mutt ;)
=== mvo pats his mutt
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[02:13] <Seveas> actually it's the auto-changes list :)
=== \sh switches back to kmail which  "just works (tm)"
=== dholbach gets auto-changes as a digest :)
[02:14] <\sh> dholbach: sissy ,)
[02:14] <\sh> hmmm
[02:14] <\sh> shermann@server3:~$ w 14:39:54 up 157 days, 20:00,  1 user,  load average: 0,19, 0,11, 0,09
[02:15] <\sh> it's only a little inc of load...nothing serious..
[02:15] <ajmitch> nice version for xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
[02:16] <infinity> Oh, c'mon.  People whining about -changes stressing their mail clients should try getting build logs for a day.
[02:16] <infinity> ajmitch : Yeah, I already gave him shit for that. :)
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[02:16] <infinity> ajmitch : He was like "seriously was the only thing I could think of that was higher than really"
[02:16] <ajmitch> hah
[02:16] <infinity> ajmitch : And I said "what about 'rel' or 'release'?" ... "Oh."
[02:16] <\sh> infinity: all sissies ,-) they all don't know what's good for them ;)
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[02:17] <ajmitch> hello doko 
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[02:19] <infinity> Total 1398 package(s) in state Needs-Build.
[02:20] <infinity> Christ, autosync day is PAINFUL.
[02:20] <Nafallo> hihi
[02:20] <Nafallo> that's ~half of what's uploaded?
[02:22] <ogra> lo doko
[02:23] <ajmitch> it'll hopefully settle down by ubz
[02:23] <infinity> Oh, it'll settle in a day or so.
[02:23] <pitti> seb128: I think you could be interested in subscribing to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gstreamer-audio-backend
[02:23] <infinity> It's just the initial sync that sucks, cause there's a backlog of new versions, ongoing syncs after that are fine.
[02:23] <pitti> seb128: I dumped that part of my brain into a spec and I have some ideas, which we should discuss at UBZ
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=== fabbione starts the packing dance
=== Kinnison doesn't know that one
[02:24] <Kinnison> fabbione: you'll have to teach me that dance in Montral
[02:24] <ogra> pitti, i'm vers intrested... i need a networked sound architecture for edubuntu ... i thought of a gstreamer trnasport for that 
[02:24] <ogra> s/vers/very
[02:24] <pitti> ogra: feel free to join :-)
[02:24] <ogra> i'll do ;)
[02:25] <pitti> I hope that spec subscriptions count in the scheduling
[02:25] <fabbione> Kinnison: jump, yell and scream randomically around your bag, that's exploding for -ETOOMANYUNDERWEAR
=== dholbach -> lunch, getting ca$, dogwalk
[02:26] <Treenaks> fabbione: just don't wear any
[02:27] <Treenaks> fabbione: --> problem solved
[02:27] <ogra> pnts off ?
[02:27] <ogra> *pants
[02:28] <Treenaks> ogra: hey, it's called Love Day for a reason, right?
[02:28] <ogra> heh
[02:29] <Nafallo> :-)
[02:29] <ajmitch> Treenaks: and it's UbuntuBelowZero for a reason, too :)
[02:29] <Treenaks> ajmitch: yeah, so you have an excuse ;)
[02:30] <Treenaks> </offtopic><ontopic>
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[02:31] <doko> ogra: ping
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[02:33] <ogra> doko, pongedipong
[02:34] <doko> ogra: did you make the reservation?
[02:34] <ogra> doko, i mailed info@ as the reservation page says...
[02:35] <ogra> doko, no answer so far
[02:35] <Treenaks> ogra: where?
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[02:35] <ogra> Treenaks, dokos hostel
[02:35] <Treenaks> ogra: the Auberge Alternative?
[02:35] <ajmitch> ogra: I like your release schedule suggestion about NEW
[02:36] <doko> ogra: ab wann?
[02:36] <ogra> Treenaks, nope, thats my fallback
[02:36] <Treenaks> ogra: that's my primary :)
[02:36] <ogra> doko, wednesday
[02:36] <Treenaks> ogra: confirmed & all
[02:36] <mjg59> Kamion: Fresh Breezy install, none of my partitions have been automounted
[02:36] <ogra> Treenaks, i'll move to the hotel on sat.... its only for the three days i'm not at the conf
=== Keybuk glares at evolution ... get OFF the futex!
[02:37] <Kinnison> Keybuk: but it loves the futex
[02:37] <ajmitch> ogra: you arrive in montreal quite early?
[02:37] <Kinnison> Keybuk: it loves it *LONG* time
[02:37] <Keybuk> mjg59: yeah, that's known ... it only works if you go through the manual bit
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[02:37] <ogra> ajmitch, 4pm on wednesday
[02:37] <ajmitch> yes, quite early :)
[02:38] <ogra> ajmitch, to have some days to look around and see something... and recover from travelling as well
[02:38] <Treenaks> ogra: 4pm on wednesday? you should be leaving now then?
[02:38] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah
[02:38] <ajmitch> good plan
[02:38] <ogra> Treenaks, ??
[02:38] <Treenaks> ogra: tomorrow = wednesday
[02:39] <Treenaks> oh wait
[02:39] <ogra> Treenaks, my flight goes at 2pm from frankfurt ... 
[02:39] <Treenaks> 4pm not 4am
[02:39] <Treenaks> *kicks self*
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[02:39] <Treenaks> ogra: oh it's only a 2hr flight ;)
[02:39] <mjg59> Kamion: Also, do you want information for identifying more recovery partitions (and what special options they need in order to boot)?
[02:39] <ogra> Treenaks, yes :-D
[02:40] <Treenaks> ogra: my flight takes 2 hours from London ;)
[02:40] <Treenaks> ogra: and 5 minutes from Ams -> London :)
[02:40] <ogra> Treenaks, cityhopper to london ?
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[02:41] <ogra> with the small 2 engine prop plane ? 
[02:41] <Treenaks> ogra: no, it's a connecting BA flight
[02:41] <ogra> ah
[02:42] <Kamion>   * Diagnosed why partition automounting isn't working in the
[02:42] <Kamion>     auto-resize case (method and acting_filesystem files not copied over
[02:42] <Kamion>     to the new partman device directory). Not yet sure why or how to fix
[02:42] <Kamion>     it.
[02:42] <Kamion> mjg59: ^-- from my activity report log
[02:43] <Kamion> mjg59: recovery> sure
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[02:44] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, cool
[02:45] <mjg59> Kamion: I filed a bug about the Dell one (which doesn't need anything special to boot). I'll let you know about the Toshiba one (which needs unhiding in order to work)
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[02:48] <seb128> jdub: ah ah :)
[02:48] <seb128> pitti: will do, thanks
[02:48] <pitti> seb128: I think we can make this truly rocking
[02:48] <seb128> how so ?
[02:49] <seb128> fix dmix to work everywhere and use alsasink? :)
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: that should be the default
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: the ALSA upstream guys want to hear bug reports about hardware where it doesn't work
[02:49] <pitti> and they gave me some hints for debugging
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: but we should automatically fall back to esd if dmix doesn't work
[02:50] <pitti> seb128: I have some ideas in my head how to do that
[02:50] <segfault> what app runs at planet.ubuntu.com?
[02:50] <pitti> seb128: it needs some gstreamer hacking, but it is not Ubuntu-specific, so maybe upstream even adopts it
[02:51] <mdke> segfault, planetplanet.org
[02:51] <mdke> (i think)
[02:51] <seb128> pitti: gst0.9/0.10 have working autosinks now
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: "auto" means?
[02:52] <seb128> pitti: but I don't know how they work, they are supposed to automatically pick the best option for you
[02:52] <segfault> mdke: thanks
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: even better
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: maybe there is nothing left to do for us then :-)
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[02:53] <ogra> first we need to get rid of esd in gnome, dont we ?
[02:53] <seb128> jdub: gstreamer 0.10 for dapper doable?
[02:53] <pitti> ogra: we should leave it as a fallback
[02:53] <ogra> sgh
[02:53] <ogra> sigh
[02:53] <pitti> ogra: at least as long as alsa doesn't work everywhere
[02:53] <Treenaks> seb128: that would ROCK
=== ajmitch would love to see esd die quietly
[02:53] <pitti> ogra: but we want to change the default gstreamer sink to alsa where it works
[02:53] <ogra> pitti, yup... but still
[02:53] <seb128> ajmitch: need to fix alsa for that :)
[02:53] <pitti> ogra: esd merely running is not the pain - it's *using* esd
[02:54] <sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nomination-mjg59-2005/
[02:54] <sabdfl> yay
[02:54] <sabdfl> looks much better
[02:54] <sabdfl> has everyone participated in the mjg59 poll?
=== ajmitch looks
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[02:54] <ajmitch> yes 
[02:54] <ogra> yay for typography :)
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[02:54] <ajmitch> looks much much nicer
[02:55] <Lathiat> Keybuk: hahaha @ your sounder post
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[03:04] <rob^^^> bwahah, it did make it to the fridge poll
[03:04] <Kinnison> dragon!
=== rob^^^ votes Dragon as it is quite obvious that fantastical creatures with long lives should be the basis for stable releases
[03:05] <mdke> erm
[03:05] <mdke> you know full well it's a duck
[03:05] <mdke> any attempt to argue otherwise will be take as some weird Aussie inability to speak english
[03:05] <Kinnison> aussie?
[03:05] <mdke> rob^ is aussie
[03:05] <rob^^^> sorry, US here
[03:05] <mdke> oh sorry, another rob
[03:06] <Kinnison> and UK here
[03:06] <mdke> damn that is confusing
[03:06] <rob^^^> oh
[03:06] <jbailey> Kamion: Eh, really?
[03:06] <jbailey> Hmm
=== mdke retreats
=== jbailey can always pull the breezy source to get the missing bits.
[03:06] <robertj> ahh better
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[03:08] <robertj> There needs to be a Duck Season/Dragon Season wallpaper now ;)
[03:08] <Kamion> jbailey: no "ubuntu" in the version so autosync wasn't inhibited
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[03:09] <jbailey> Kamion: Ah, okay.  I had assumed it checked the .orig.tar for sanity (or the .tar.gz)
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[03:13] <Kamion> jbailey: nope, it's purely on version
[03:13] <jbailey> doko!
[03:14] <jbailey> Kamion: 'kay.  I wanted to make it non-native for Dapper anyway, to make syncing with Debian easier (since otherwise we're racing version numbers.  I hate the recent Debian policy change that says you can't have - in native package versions GRR)
[03:14] <Kamion> that's not a recent change
[03:15] <Kamion> I remember bugs about that from 1997
[03:15] <smurf> Kamion: didn't debian start actually enforcing that just recently?
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[03:19] <Kamion> like I say, there've been bugs about it since 1997, and that's always been the policy. it's possible that ftpmaster got a bit stricter about new packages with that problem, but otherwise no
[03:20] <mjg59> Why do we never manage to ship with working a11y?
[03:20] <smurf> Ah, right, that bit was in an ftpmaster's what-we're-checking-NEW-stuff-for announcement
[03:20] <mjg59> seb128: gok refuses to start if installed on a clean system
[03:20] <Lathiat> mjg59: heh
[03:21] <Lathiat> perhaps it needs to go on a list of things to check pre-release
[03:21] <seb128> mjg59: what is it saying?
[03:21] <mjg59> seb128: "Registry not found"
[03:21] <mjg59> On a terminal
[03:21] <smurf> mjg59: I assume it's because all the testers have dirty systems :-/
[03:21] <mdke> mjg59, known bug
[03:21] <mjg59> It fails silently if started graphically
[03:22] <mdke> i attached a backtrace today
[03:22] <mdke> #13746
[03:22] <mjg59> In fact, where's atk-bridge?
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[03:23] <mdke> i think it is a missing dependency
[03:23] <mjg59> Yeah, it's missing at-spi
[03:23] <mdke> surprising that bug wasn't picked up in time for breezy
[03:23] <seb128> no
[03:24] <ajmitch> 24
[03:24] <seb128> it's not surprising, if you want to have a bug noticed assign it to somebody working on the package
[03:24] <seb128> or Cc it
[03:24] <seb128> s/it/him/
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[03:25] <mdke> when I said "picked up" i didn't mean to imply any blame seb128 
[03:25] <seb128> I know
[03:25] <seb128> I just say why it has not been fixed
[03:25] <mdke> yup
[03:25] <seb128> it's assigned to somebody
[03:25] <seb128> so out of the radar of other people
[03:26] <mdke> yeah i noticed that
[03:26] <seb128> we have enough work to read the bug assigned to other people
[03:26] <seb128> s/to read/without reading/
[03:26] <mdke> will you take that bug now?
[03:26] <mdke> maybe it is a candidate for an update?
[03:26] <seb128> I'll give it to dholbach who has stepped for a11y stuff
[03:26] <seb128> yeah
[03:27] <seb128> dholbach:#13746  for you, need a Depends on at-spi, candidate for -update, thanks :)
[03:30] <HiddenWolf> seb128, it should be perfectly safe to grab a few debs from dapper, right? Rhythmbox and such.
[03:30] <mdke> thanks seb128 
[03:30] <seb128> HiddenWolf: I'm not sure with the xorg changes
[03:31] <seb128> mdke: np, thank you for pointing it
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[03:31] <HiddenWolf> seb128, that's why I just want the few debs, not dapper itself. :P
[03:32] <seb128> if you can install them without triggering the new xorg go for it
[03:32] <seb128> I don't know if the shlibs have changed and force it
[03:32] <ogra> seb128, is there a way that we can make gnome-settings-daemon happy with two simultaneous logins of one user on the same machine in dapper ? currently the second login with the same user doesnt get settings at all..
[03:33] <ogra> (i.e. somehow tie it to the DISPLAY variable or something)
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[03:35] <seb128> ogra: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94049 maybe ?
[03:35] <ogra> s/two/two or more/
[03:36] <ogra> seb128, yay, cool... its a big prob for some internet cafes running ltsp with th same user all over the place, thanks a lot :)
[03:36] <seb128> np
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[03:48] <\sh> only to be sure, that i don't have a problem: toolchain is broken now, right? (at least gcc/g++/cpp)
[03:55] <seb128> elmo: please sync gnome-doc-utils
[03:56] <infinity> \sh : It is?
[03:56] <infinity> That was quick...
[03:57] <\sh> infinity: well...actually I can't compile some g++ stuff anymore...cpp (>=4:4.0) == 4.0.2-something but 4.0.1-something is going to be installed ,)
[03:57] <\sh> 15:14 < \sh>   gcc: Depends: cpp (>= 4:4.0.2-1) but 4:4.0.1-3 is to be installed
[03:57] <\sh> 15:14 < \sh>        Depends: gcc-4.0 (>= 4.0.2-2) but 4.0.1-4ubuntu9 is to be installed
[03:58] <infinity> Oh, joy.  gcc-defaults got synced.
[03:59] <\sh> yeah...time to go home...
[03:59] <\sh> laters 
[04:06] <Kamion> for anyone thinking of merging them, I've got the lsb/lsb-release revamp half-merged - it's rather complicated and requires us to keep up with a bunch of changes, though, so I won't finish them today
[04:07] <Kamion> /etc/lsb-release is moving to base-files, which will require base-files to take over lsb-release-udeb, etc.
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[04:08] <infinity> Kamion : Does that mean the lsb-release package will get shuffled too, or will it still contain that one binary, just not the conffile?
[04:09] <Keybuk> jdub: http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/
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[04:09] <Kamion> infinity: the lsb-release binary starts to come from the lsb source rather than its own source, and will just contain the binary not the conffile
[04:10] <Kamion> Keybuk: hmm, what happens when I move a conffile from one package to another with Replaces: and simultaneously change its contents? will I get a conffile prompt?
[04:10] <Keybuk> Kamion: mayyybe
[04:11] <Keybuk> I think that's ok, if they haven't changed the conffile
[04:11] <Kamion> if dpkg doesn't go looking for the conffile info in Replaced packages, it should
[04:12] <Kamion> if people are silly enough to change /etc/lsb-release, they should get a conffile prompt :)
[04:13] <Keybuk> hmm, I don't think it does check
[04:13] <infinity> If we get a prompt when it's not changed, that's going to be 12 kinds of broken.
[04:13] <Kamion> I can leave /etc/lsb-release in the lsb-release package until dapper if necessary
[04:14] <infinity> Kamion : What's the rationale for moving it?.. Just want all release-specific stuff in one place?
[04:14] <Kamion> infinity: yeah
[04:14] <Kamion> it's the stated intent of the Debian lsb maintainer, so I was going to go with that unless we had a good reason to do otherwise
[04:14] <Kamion> spurious conffile prompts are a good reason :)
[04:15] <infinity> Spurious conffile prompts are hell.  If that can be fixed/avoided somehow, then moving the file makes sense, I guess.
[04:16] <Diziet> kamion: Replaces isn't relevant.
[04:16] <Kamion> Diziet: should it be?
[04:16] <Diziet> No.
[04:16] <Kamion> why not?
[04:16] <Kamion> if I want to move a normal file from one package to another, I use Replaces
[04:16] <Diziet> Um, because it is always right to do the thing that you want.
[04:16] <Kamion> I'd've thought that the same would go for conffiles
[04:16] <Diziet> Replaces just lets you avoid the conflict.
[04:16] <Diziet> Yes.
[04:17] <Kamion> oh, you mean dpkg should look for the conffile md5sum records etc. throughout all of the status file and ignore what packages they're associated with?
[04:17] <Diziet> When the new package takes over the conffile (whether this is allowed due to Replaces or due to --force-overwrite isn't relevant) then dpkg should take the old hash and conffile ownership and move it to the new package.
[04:17] <Kamion> ah, right
[04:17] <Diziet> Whenever a file is overwritten, the file ownership is transferred.
[04:17] <Kamion> That's fine by me, as long as it actually does this :-)
[04:17] <Diziet> This used to be somewhat broken.  Just a mo.
[04:19] <Diziet> This is related to Debian 108587 and (U. bugzilla 16133).
[04:20] <Diziet> But that bug only shows up if the two packages conflict (or there's some other reason why the old one is removed first).
[04:20] <Diziet> And anyway I fixed it.
[04:20] <Diziet> I don't remember any bug in this area when the file is taken over during upgrade.
[04:20] <Diziet> And I think this will have been one of the tests I did when I fixed that bug.
[04:21] <Kamion> all right, I'll test it when moving the conffile from lsb-release to base-files, then
[04:21] <Kamion> thanks
[04:21] <Diziet> Right.
[04:21] <Diziet> NP.
[04:21] <Diziet> If you have any strangeness, do let me know.
[04:21] <Kamion> will do
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[04:28] <mvo> JaneW: you created "SmallerUpdates", do you mind if I add something here? debian #128818 is implemented in the apt in debian/experimental
[04:30] <siretart> tiffany?
[04:31] <mvo> siretart: yes
[04:41] <jbailey> https://www.ubuntu.com/ is giving me a bad proxy.  Anyone else seeing it?
[04:41] <elmo> it'll be back up momentarily
[04:41] <jbailey> (I think my ISP has a transparent proxy, but I thin khttps should bypass it)
[04:41] <Znarl> jbailey : It's being worked on.
[04:41] <jbailey> Cool, I don't have to report it.  Thanks! =)
[04:41] <fabbione> hey elmo 
[04:42] <fabbione> elmo: i am packing the luggage here... do i need to bring the AP with me or not?
[04:42] <elmo> fabbione: if you can do so without causing yourself inconvenience, sure
[04:42] <pitti> ah, I also have a spare AP if necessary
[04:42] <ogra> me too
[04:43] <jbailey> I can also bring mine. =)
[04:43] <pitti> elmo: do we need more? I have an 11mbit one here
[04:43] <fabbione> elmo: no problem, i think.. if there is an empty bit in the bag i will add it
[04:44] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync postgresql-7.4 and postgresql-8.0?
[04:44] <elmo> pitti: pls send mail, I have to run out RSN
[04:44] <elmo> pitti/ogra/jbailey: we don't _need_ more, but it wouldn't hurt to have spares/more, but only if it's no inconvenience to you
[04:45] <ogra> oki..
[04:45] <pitti> ok
[04:45] <fabbione> now nobody is going to bring one
[04:45] <fabbione> wanna bet? ;)
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[04:47] <Simira> fabbione : when do you leave?
[04:47] <ogra> fabbione, bah... already in the bag
[04:48] <fabbione> Simira: tomorrow morning around 5am
[04:48] <fabbione> ogra: ok.. than bring your.. i will keep mine at home
[04:49] <Simira> fabbione : that early? It doesn't start until monday, does is? We leave on saturday, anyway.-
[04:49] <fabbione> and i should seriously consider to really finish to pack
[04:49] <fabbione> Simira: yes, but i have 2 days of holidays there to look around
[04:50] <fabbione> so it will be tomorrow fly -> 2 days of relax -> saturday
[04:50] <Simira> fabbione: Sounds nice. you should finish packing,  then. :-) I'm off now, so have a nice trip. See you there ;)
[04:50] <fabbione> Simira: sure :) thanks and take car3e
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[04:53] <JaneW> mvo: go ahead...
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[04:57] <Amaranth> yay, upgrades
=== Amaranth prepares to start crying
[04:59] <mvo> JaneW: thanks
[05:01] <sivang> dholbach: are you doing the distro-policy-tracker BOF?
[05:03] <dholbach> sivang: i signed up for it, yes
[05:03] <dholbach> seb128: will look at it
[05:03] <seb128> dholbach: thanks
[05:04] <sivang> dholbach: I would like to work on this as well, what should I do ?
[05:04] <sivang> dholbach: (I proposed the spec based on something mdz requested)
[05:05] <dholbach> sivang: we can spec it together and see how it works out, working on it together doesn't exclude anybody
[05:05] <sivang> dholbach: ofcourse , cool
=== lamont-away flys sunday
[05:06] <lamont-away> (conflicts on saturday, means I miss the bulk of ubuntu-love day, which sucks.)
[05:06] <ogra> lamont-away, you come ?
[05:06] <lamont-away> si
[05:06] <ogra> wohooo !!
[05:06] <ogra> :)
[05:06] <lamont-away> travel days are 30 oct and 6 nov
[05:07] <pitti> Hi lamont-away! Looking forward to meet you again
[05:07] <ogra> missing haloween at home ... ?
[05:07] <lamont-away> not missing the teenager's halloween party on sat evening though...
[05:07] <lamont-away> that'd be the conflict
[05:08] <lamont-away> about the only pegan holiday I do anything for is Christmas.
[05:08] <smurf> lamont-away: Stocked up on sweets yet?
[05:08] <lamont-away> wife did last night
[05:09] <smurf> Halloween -- every dentist's cash cow / nightmare ;-)
[05:10] <lamont-away> ah - just call it by it's correct name: samhain... :)
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[05:11] <smurf> lamont-away: true
[05:11] <ogra> dholbach, can you make sure the distro-policy-tracker will also cover doc decisions like moving around about ubunt etc ... ?
[05:11] <ogra> *ubuntu
[05:12] <ogra> (that'd be a nice enhancement)
[05:12] <dholbach> it's nothing coded yet, not even specced yet :)
[05:12] <dholbach> but yes, i'll keep it in mind
[05:12] <ogra> thanks :) 
[05:12] <ogra> just to avoid surprises 2 weeks befor release :)
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[05:18] <YokoZar> Wine 0.9 Beta just came out about 30 mins ago.  I'm going to put together the Ubuntu package.  ETA on the package will be 4 hours, since I need to finish D/Ling, compiling, and going to class for the day.
[05:19] <YokoZar> After that it'll be available on the WineHQ website and we can discuss the future role of Wine on the mailing list ;)
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[05:23] <sivang> ogra: doc decisions are condisered distro-policy ?
[05:24] <ogra> sivang, as long as they affect derivatives (kubuntu/edubuntu/a11y-buntu) they should be covered in the policy
[05:25] <sivang> ogra: if you're talking about where docs are placed, and can be found and/or registered against various docs db programs (like scrollkeeper) then it does, otherwise I don't think it has anyting to do with distro policy
[05:25] <mdke> he is
[05:26] <sivang> ah ok :)
[05:26] <ogra> sivang, for me the last minute change of "about ubuntu" two weeks before release generated some work i wasnt aware of the change and having it in a centralized policy document where i could look it up would avoid this in the future :)
[05:27] <ogra> (indeed its not about doc contents, only about doc handling/plcement)
[05:28] <sivang> ogra: ah, then I read your last sentence wrong. That is its acutal purpose. Furhter more, as I see it , it should also not allow addition changes to the policy it maintains after a determined period of time as well, so you'll never have weird surprises
[05:28] <ogra> you wont avoid them completely i guess... but minimizing would already be a big help
[05:29] <sivang> ogra: noted, I may add it to the BOF ideas then
[05:30] <ogra> that'd be nice, thanks
[05:33] <ogra> grumble grumble.... why does editing a spec from my speclist not drop me off to my own speclist afterwards, but to the global one ...
[05:34] <mjg59> Keybuk: I just booted a system and my wireless interface didn't come up.
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[05:37] <HWolf> who maintains grub in ubuntu?
[05:37] <Kamion> various people, depending on the problem
[05:37] <Amaranth> everyone, who touched it last
[05:38] <Lathiat> just blame it on seb128
[05:38] <Lathiat> grub bugs are gtk bugs afterall
[05:39] <HWolf> It's just there's a bunch of homeless grubby bugs in launchpad. :)
[05:39] <Lathiat> ah
[05:39] <seb128> no, not me
[05:39] <Lathiat> just dont assign them to ubuntu-dev :)
=== HWolf looks innocently at seb128
[05:40] <Kamion> HWolf: we'll hunt them down when we switch over fully from bugzilla
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[05:41] <HWolf> Kamion, better to do it before the switch, to keep things clean, right?
[05:42] <Kamion> HWolf: doesn't matter
[05:42] <Keybuk> mjg59: was your wireless interface configured by the installer?
[05:43] <Keybuk> ie. in /etc/network/interfaces
[05:43] <mjg59> Yes
[05:43] <Keybuk> ok, does /etc/iftab match /etc/network/interfaces ?
[05:43] <Keybuk> or have they been flipped around
[05:43] <mxpxpod> pitti: ping
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[05:46] <mjg59> Keybuk: Looks good
[05:47] <mjg59>  /etc/network/interfaces has hotplug eth0, and the only auto reference is lo
[05:47] <Keybuk> right
[05:47] <Keybuk> and iftab says eth0 is which MAC ?
[05:47] <mjg59> The wireless
[05:47] <Keybuk> is there an eth1 as well?
[05:48] <mjg59> Yes
[05:48] <Keybuk> ok ... now look at ifconfig -a ... what interfaces are there?
[05:48] <mjg59> eth0, eth1, lo and sit0
[05:48] <Keybuk> and do the MACs match etc/network/interfaces ?
[05:48] <Keybuk> uh, sorry, match /etc/iftab
[05:49] <mjg59> Yes
[05:49] <Keybuk> sodomy non sapiens, then
[05:49] <Keybuk> has it been completely ignored by the boot sequence, and not even plumbed?
[05:50] <mjg59> Looks like it
[05:50] <mjg59> I'm guessing the hotplug event got lost somewhere?
[05:50] <infinity> Does restarting hotplug after boot magically make it work?
[05:50] <mjg59> What happens if eth1 gets loaded first? How does the hotplug event get generated?
[05:50] <mjg59> Or, rather, what happens if my wireless device (eth0) is the second network device that hotplug loads?
[05:50] <infinity> Keybuk : Is coldplugging getting a complete revamp with 2.6.14 and the new udev anyway?
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[05:51] <Keybuk> the uevent (today's fashionable name for hotplug events) would've been totally and utterly  lost
[05:51] <Keybuk> because it would happen while the initramfs was running
[05:51] <Keybuk> hotplug should've still picked up the network card
[05:51] <mjg59> Ok
[05:51] <Keybuk> there's a bug where the kernel allocates the cards in the _opposite_ order to the installer
[05:52] <mjg59> I'll reboot soon and see what happens
[05:52] <Keybuk> so the installer says eth0=wireless, eth1=wired
[05:52] <Keybuk> but the kernel on a normal boot says eth0=wired, eth1=wireless
[05:52] <Keybuk> and that goes a bit wrong
[05:52] <mjg59> I /think/ eth0 was wireless on install
[05:53] <Keybuk> infinity: yes, in theory we'll regenerate the uevents when we start udev in the initramfs, and do _something_ to remember to trigger the userspace rules when userspace is ready
[05:53] <Keybuk> I'm not totally sure yet
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[05:55] <mjg59> Keybuk: Ok, it seems repeatable
[05:56] <Keybuk> mjg59: try swapping the iftab rules around; and adjust network/interfaces appropriately
[05:56] <Keybuk> ie. make eth1 your wireless and eth0 your wired
[05:56] <Keybuk> and see if it comes up that way
[05:56] <mjg59> Running /etc/init.d/hotplug start results in it starting
[05:56] <Keybuk> yes, that is what I'd expect
[05:56] <Keybuk> the problem is that we _can_ swap interfaces reliably, just not during coldplugging
[05:56] <pitti> Riddell: here?
[05:56] <Riddell> pitti: hi
[05:56] <Keybuk> once swapped, if it comes up, it's that problem
[05:57] <Keybuk> (you can also solve it, paradoxically, but adding eth1 to the hotplug thingywotsit)
[05:57] <pitti> Riddell: do you know about any plans to drop arts in favor of something else?
[05:57] <Keybuk> actually, no, scrub that
[05:57] <Keybuk> you can't
[05:57] <Riddell> pitti: it'll be dropped for KDE 4
[05:57] <Keybuk> you do need to swap the iftab lines around
[05:57] <Riddell> pitti: suse have patches to get of it for KDE 3
[05:57] <pitti> Riddell: maybe you are interested in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gstreamer-audio-backend, for the KDE counterpart
[05:57] <pitti> Riddell: what's the replacement? ALSA direct?
[05:58] <Riddell> pitti: I already signead up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GstreamerAudioBackend  :)
[05:58] <Riddell> pitti: kdemm (a thin API), but I'm not sure what that outputs to
[05:58] <pitti> Riddell: ah, cool; however, you should rather subscribe to the LP page
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[05:58] <Keybuk> mjg59: I'd be willing to bet that your laptop has a ipw2200 in it
[05:58] <pitti> Riddell: I just talked to Mark and mdz, and it seems that the LP spec page is the source for scheduling the BoFS
[05:59] <mdz-phone> correct
[05:59] <mdz-phone> the wiki pages should not even contain this data
[05:59] <pitti> mdz-phone: it's probably cruft from copying/reusing UDU specs
=== pitti cleans up his specs
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[06:01] <mdke> i think some specs were created before that regime was implemented
[06:01] <TMM> hi all
[06:02] <TMM> anyone good with the python gnome bindings? :) I'd like to embed a gnome-terminal into a pyglade app, can someone point me to docs or examples please? I can't seem to find any
[06:03] <infinity> elmo : If you're around, I need apache_2.0.55-3 synced (we misfired and got -2)
[06:04] <seb128> TMM: use python-vte
[06:04] <siretart> omg. madwifi-ng is introducing yet another command for configuring wifi parameters :(
[06:04] <TMM> seb128, ah thanks
[06:05] <seb128> np
[06:05] <smurf> If I want a proposed Sarge update of one of my packages to be considered for breezy-updates -- ask for sync, upload directly, or upload with s/sarge/breezy/ ?
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[06:06] <TMM> seb128, "If you actually want to use the widget to get work done, you
[06:06] <TMM>   should probably be using gnome-terminal." 
[06:06] <TMM> seb128, very encouraging... :)
[06:07] <smurf> TMM: Nobody prevents you from dupicating all of g-t's features ;)
[06:07] <Lathiat> smurf: in general, sync, but im not sure when it comes to -updates
[06:07] <Kamion> smurf: send mail to mdz with a diff of the proposed update
[06:07] <Kamion> it should only fix whatever's necessary, and it should be versioned appropriately for breezy-updates
[06:07] <Kamion> i.e. breezy <= breezy-updates <= dapper
[06:07] <TMM> smurf, lol :) it doesn't need too much
[06:08] <smurf> Kamion: Umm, ITYM "breezy < breezy-updates" ;-)
[06:10] <Kamion> smurf: well, I was considering breezy-updates to be identical to breezy if there was nothing in it, but if you want to look at it that way instead, sure
[06:11] <Kamion> I wouldn't attempt a sync to breezy-updates personally
[06:11] <Kamion> I don't think we have the propup stuff from Debian in our katie installation to make the resulting contents of dapper be sane
[06:12] <mjg59> Keybuk: Sorry, phone call
[06:12] <mjg59> Keybuk: Swapping eth0 and eth1 works
[06:13] <mjg59> Keybuk: It's actually a 2915 rather than a 2200, but yeah
[06:13] <Keybuk> right
[06:13] <Keybuk> so what happened is the ipw drivers used to sleep for $SMALLNUM after sending a user-space request for firmware
[06:14] <Keybuk> and userspace nearly always wasn't fast enough, so you ended up with a duffed driver
[06:14] <Kamion> can we make ntpdate use ntp.ubuntu.com rather than ntp.ubuntulinux.org? the domain grates on me
[06:14] <Keybuk> so they fixed that by actually moving the "once the firmware is loaded" stuff into a bottom half
[06:14] <Kamion> (and ntp.ubuntu.com exists)
[06:14] <Keybuk> but that means the kernel is free to do anything else, like load other drivers
[06:14] <mpt> doko: By "looks like the same spec URL cannot be used for two specs :-/", did you mean the Launchpad URL, or the Ubuntu wiki URL?
[06:15] <Keybuk> so what happens is the kernel loads ipwblah first, then the internal one
[06:15] <Keybuk> but the internal one finishes first and gets eth0
[06:15] <mjg59> Keybuk: Unfortunately, it's sort of necessary that these machines work correctly after boot...
[06:15] <Keybuk> this doesn't seem to affect the installer ... I guess there's something different about the way it plugs hardware
[06:15] <Keybuk> so that's why the eth0/eth1 need to be swapped
[06:15] <Kamion> not all modules are available from the start; ipw2200 is probably udpkg'ed later than the internal one (which might be in the initrd, even)
[06:16] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, that's another possibility
[06:16] <mjg59> Keybuk: So, is there a nice easy fix?
[06:16] <Keybuk> now obviously the userspace shouldn't fall flat on its face when faced with having to swap the names of eth0 and eth1 around (which it has to do)
[06:17] <Keybuk> we did some fixing for that in breezy and actually did make it successfully swap them
[06:17] <mjg59> This is stock Breezy 
[06:17] <Keybuk> as you can see, because you have an eth0 and eth1 that are the same as the installer thinks they should be
[06:17] <Keybuk> the trouble is that coldplugging then fouls up
[06:17] <mjg59> Hmm
[06:17] <Keybuk> because it was coldplugging eth0, which suddenly became eth1 under it
[06:17] <Keybuk> and both coldplugs end up doing "ifup eth1"
[06:17] <Keybuk> this is because network coldplugging is done by name
[06:17] <mjg59> Fun
[06:18] <Keybuk> we found this reasonably late in the breezy process, and I decided that a ground-up rewrite of that side of hotplug wasn't exactly a stellar idea
[06:18] <Keybuk> initramfs broke the world
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[06:19] <pitti> hi trulux 
[06:24] <wasabi_> Hey so there a GPG doc anywhere that explains the proper procedure when your key expires?
[06:26] <doko> mpt: the "Specification URL"
[06:27] <smurf> wasabi: the easiest way is to extend the expire date, re-sign it, and re-upload.
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[06:33] <mjg59> D'oh
=== mjg59 finds an irritating bug in irda-utils
[06:38] <ogra> doko, YAY, got answer from the hostel, thanks for helping with it :-D
[06:40] <Keybuk> mjg59: I have an irritating bug in irda-utils ... it causes my machine to explode
[06:43] <mjg59> Explode how?
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[06:45] <trulux> hey pitti 
[06:45] <trulux> howya!
[06:45] <trulux> (Hi all :))
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[06:47] <seb128> Lathiat: coming to UBZ?
[06:47] <Lathiat> seb128: nope :(
[06:48] <Lathiat> unfortunately there from australia is expensive, and i wasn't chosen for sponsorship
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[07:06] <DonChullio> Hi here is a very good Browser Game !!!! http://www.street-conflicts.de.ki !!!!! It's about Gangster and ...... !!!!!!
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[07:07] <mpt> and ......
=== mpt will forever be left in suspense
[07:07] <ogra> *grin*
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[07:08] <Treenaks> ogra: do you expect to have internet in Montreal? :)
[07:08] <ogra> Treenaks, yup, why not ? 
[07:08] <ogra> did they shut canada down ? 
[07:08] <Treenaks> ogra: I don't know... maybe there are only very expensive wifi hotspots?
[07:09] <ogra> the hostel that just confirmed my booking has free wireless
[07:09] <Treenaks> cool
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[07:09] <Treenaks> ogra: which one is that?
[07:09] <infinity> s/cool/normal/, really.
[07:09] <infinity> Canada is all about the plentiful bandwidth.
[07:09] <ogra> http://www.hostellingmontreal.com/en/home.aspx?sortcode=2.6.5
[07:10] <infinity> (moving from Canada to Australia sucked)
[07:10] <mpt> damn
[07:10] <Treenaks> infinity: don't do that then ;)
[07:10] <infinity> Too late.
[07:10] <ogra> Treenaks, apparently proven that they have connection, doko is already there and is online
=== mpt just finished his booking at the Montreal hostel that has the WORST INTERNET KIOSKS IN THE WORLD
[07:10] <Treenaks> mpt: which one?
[07:11] <ogra> mpt, when will you arrive ? 
[07:11] <mpt> Treenaks: the Hostelling International one
[07:11] <ogra> doko, btw, they offered me a single room :)
[07:12] <Treenaks> I booked at the "auberge alternative", only 500m from the Holiday Inn
[07:12] <mpt> It's a bit cheaper than ogra's, though
[07:12] <ogra> Treenaks, we'll all move over to to the holiday inn once the conference starts...
[07:13] <Treenaks> ogra: Yes, you paid-for people will
[07:13] <Treenaks> ogra: The holiday inn was booked full almost from the announcement
[07:13] <ogra> Treenaks, thats why i didnt really care where i stay for the three nights
[07:13] <Treenaks> :)
[07:13] <mpt> ogra: about midday on the 30th
[07:13] <ogra> mpt, and you go to a hostel ??
[07:14] <mpt> ogra: Just from the 11th to the 13th
[07:14] <ogra> oh, k
[07:15] <Treenaks> I pay $20 (canadian)/night for 9 nights
[07:15] <Treenaks> which I thought was affordable :)
[07:16] <mpt> It'll do me good to have an Internet-less weekend
[07:16] <ogra> *shudder* 
[07:17] <ogra> no internet ...
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[07:17] <Treenaks> "no internet".. that exists?!
[07:17] <Lathiat> haha
=== Treenaks heard horror stories of places like that
[07:20] <\sh> ogra: u don't need internet..
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=== ogra wonders why the mulitverse blackdown package isnt mentioned with a singel word on http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/ch03s02.html
[07:20] <ogra> that really sucks
[07:21] <\sh> ogra: update the toolchain ;)
[07:21] <ogra> mdke, any reason for that ? you dont need 1.5 at all for a working plugin...
[07:22] <ogra> the description there is a highly advanced task... looks like ubuntuguide
[07:28] <Keybuk> mjg59: hang hard, or kernel panic ... we've talked about it before
[07:29] <mjg59> Oh, yes
[07:29] <mjg59> I remember
[07:29] <mjg59> I think it's because the southbridge isn't set up properly, or something mad like that
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=== \sh can't attend to CC today :(
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[07:52] <trulux> in 10 minutes, we'll start a ameeting over #ubuntu-hardened
[07:53] <Keybuk> the best distribution-related name since "woody" ;)
[07:54] <trulux> hah
[07:54] <Lathiat> haha
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[07:59] <hunger> join #ubuntu-hardened
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[08:03] <mxpxpod> pitti: ping
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[08:06] <mdke> ogra, file a bug and/or update the relevant wiki pages
[08:06] <wasabi_> Oh wow.
[08:06] <wasabi_> I just upgraded slapd from hoary to breezy
[08:07] <wasabi_> and it blew away my ldap db
[08:07] <Kinnison> be grateful. ldap is nasty
[08:07] <Kinnison> now you are freed from the shackles of ASN1
[08:07] <Kinnison> and BER
[08:07] <Kinnison> and DER
[08:08] <Kinnison> and the true evils of cn, dc and ou
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[08:09] <YokoZar> Hmm, ran out of disk space entirely while running through dpkg.  Shouldn't there be a warning that I'm really really low somewhere?
[08:09] <ajmitch> pitti: ping
[08:09] <wasabi_> Oh I see what happened.
[08:11] <wasabi_> Wow nice big bug.
[08:12] <robertj> wasabi: ouchie. What happened?
[08:12] <wasabi_> Looks like the postinst script tried to backup my db, stop slapd, then recreate and restore it.
[08:12] <wasabi_> but failed in the middle.
[08:12] <robertj> did it at least get the backup done?
[08:12] <wasabi_> yeah
[08:12] <wasabi_> looks like it
[08:13] <wasabi_> That script needs to be refined a bit. It never asked me if it should even try.
[08:13] <wasabi_> And there was no reason for it to try it looks like.
[08:14] <wasabi_> And that entire methodology would break in the case of having multiple DBs
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[08:16] <pitti> ajmitch, mxpxpod: pong
[08:16] <mxpxpod> pitti: could you try running devhelp in breezy on ppc?
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[08:17] <ajmitch> pitti: #ubuntu-hardened, if you can spare the time
[08:17] <ajmitch> just the pre-UBZ meeting
[08:17] <pitti> mxpxpod: I do that regularly
[08:17] <pitti> ajmitch: actually I can't
[08:18] <pitti> ajmitch: I'm about to leave
[08:18] <mxpxpod> pitti: it segfaults for me
[08:18] <ajmitch> pitti: that's ok
[08:18] <pitti> mxpxpod: I don't remember that, but I'll try it tomorrow
[08:18] <mxpxpod> pitti: I backtraced it and it's something to do with the firefox libgtkmozembed.so
[08:21] <mvo> Diziet: your automatic updates spec sounds similar to my "unattend upgrades" spec 
[08:25] <mxpxpod> pitti: anyway, gotta get going... I'll ping you tomorrow about your test results :)
[08:26] <pitti> mxpxpod: I'll be mostly offline tomorrow, I'm travelling to Montreal
[08:26] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[08:26] <mxpxpod> pitti: I'll ping you next time I see you, then
[08:26] <pitti> mxpxpod: just file a bug :-)
[08:26] <mxpxpod> ok, will do
[08:26] <mxpxpod> later
[08:26] <pitti> WFM
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[08:33] <Nafallo> j^: your bind9 lacks dpatch as build-dep and FTBFS on my amd64 :-).
[08:33] <Surak> Hello, I have a question. What happened with getty logins at breezy live? 
[08:33] <Nafallo> j^: the rest of the nm-packages is built for amd64 on http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/packages :-)
[08:33] <Surak> I mean, they're no longer there. Which prevents the shutdown messages from appearing somewhere.
[08:34] <Surak> typing ctrl-alt-fx does nothing.
[08:34] <TerminX> Surak: this isn't a support channel
[08:34] <j^> Nafallo a thats cool. i will fix the build-dep for dpatch in that case
[08:34] <j^> though it should be part of the official bind package at some point
[08:34] <Surak> TerminX: This is not support. I suspect that there's something wrong, and want to know before posting a bug.
[08:35] <TerminX> Well, you could always ask in the /correct/ channel, which would be #ubuntu at this point
[08:35] <Surak> I tried in three different machines. There are no VTs on them.
[08:37] <Surak> If this were intended to be support, I would have done it already.
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[09:03] <jbailey> mdz: You asked last night about initramfs/usplash tighter integration.  The initramfs-tools pieces are all in already, it just needs the glue in the kernel postinst/postrm scripts.
[09:04] <jbailey> mdz: After that, everything can use update-initramfs
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[09:53] <seb128> elmo: around?
[09:54] <Nafallo> mjg59: ping
[09:55] <wasabi_> Don't suppose anybody is familiar with any effort to package iSCSI for Ubuntu/Debian?
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[10:27] <salgado> hi there
[10:28] <jbailey> salgado: hi. =)
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[10:29] <salgado> jbailey, not sure if you remember, but we have a diskless setup here at async
=== wasabi_ works on packaging iscsitarget
[10:29] <salgado> and now I decided to start using the stock kernel instead of compiling our own all the time
[10:30] <salgado> I used mkinitramfs and got an initrd that works fine, apart from not setting the hostname it gets from dhcp
[10:35] <jbailey> salgado: Sorry, what's an async?
[10:35] <Amaranth> async in this case is a company
[10:35] <salgado> jbailey, async is kiko's company name
[10:36] <jbailey> Ah, okay.  Making sure that it wasn't something like rsync, but not quite. =)
[10:36] <jbailey> Eh?  I thought kiko worked for Canonical.
[10:36] <jbailey> But either way.
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[10:36] <jbailey> Hmm, the hostname is usually set by setting /etc/hostname, right?
=== jbailey tries to remember if it's also cached by the kernel
[10:37] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@vawad ~ > find /proc/sys -name hostname
[10:37] <Mithrandir> /proc/sys/kernel/hostname
[10:38] <Mithrandir> fsvo cached
[10:38] <jbailey> Right, with the sethostname call.
[10:38] <ajmitch> hi
[10:38] <jbailey> Heya Andrew.
[10:38] <salgado> we used to generate the nbis with mknbi --ip=dhcp and that used to work just fine. that is, we just specify the hostname in dhcpd.conf
[10:38] <ajmitch> morning jeff
[10:38] <jbailey> salgado: Right.  The trick is 1) Figure out if the klibc dhcp client fetched that information 2) Set the hostname with it when we get it.
[10:39] <jbailey> salgado: Do you have a box handy to test with?  If not, I can fire up the laptop and check.
[10:39] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Thanks, btw. =)
[10:39] <salgado> jbailey, yes, I have
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[10:39] <salgado> how can I check that?
[10:39] <jbailey> salgado: Cool.  If you add 'break' to the kernel command line, it'll drop you into the shell, I *think* before the dhcp client is run.
=== jbailey checks.
[10:40] <jbailey> Right, it is.
[10:40] <jbailey> salgado: If you can bring a machine up to that point, we can see what you get out.
[10:41] <salgado> jbailey, cool. I'll do it
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[10:45] <salgado> jbailey, ok, I got an ash prompt
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[10:46] <jbailey> salgado: Cool.  Your network drivers and such should all be loaded.  Can you do ipconfig DEVICE (like ipconfig eth0 or whatever), please?
[10:47] <salgado> jbailey, done. got host, domain, address, gateway, etc. 
[10:48] <jbailey> salgado: Okay, cool.  Let's step it the rest of the way by hand to see if this will be enough.
[10:48] <jbailey> . /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf
[10:48] <jbailey> That should load in a pile of variables.  You can cat it to see what's there.
[10:49] <salgado> right. I can see HOSTNAME there
[10:49] <salgado> and it's set correctly
[10:50] <jbailey> salgado: Cool.  Let's try echo ${HOSTNAME} >/proc/sys/kernel/hostname
[10:51] <salgado> okay, done
[10:51] <jbailey> Then: nfsmount -o rw -o retrans=10 ${ROOTSERVER}:${ROOTPATH} /root
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[10:52] <salgado> done
=== Nafallo goes to sleep, gnight
[10:52] <jbailey> salgado: umount /sys
[10:52] <jbailey> salgado: umount /proc
[10:53] <jbailey> salgado: exec run-init /root /sbin/init
[10:53] <salgado> done
[10:54] <salgado> okay, hostname set correctly. :)
[10:54] <jbailey> Nice.  So there's one line missing from the script to keep you happy. =)
[10:54] <jbailey> Well, three if you want [ -z "${HOSTNAME}" ] , to look pretty.
[10:55] <salgado> should I add it to the 'nfs' file?
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[10:56] <jbailey> But anyhow, would you mind filing that in bugzilla?  It just needs to say subject: "NFS should honour HOSTNAME setting", with a body of "scripts/nfs should set the hostname if available from the net-${DEVICE}.conf file"
[10:56] <jbailey> salgado: Yup, for now just edit /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs, and add it right after the . /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf
[10:56] <salgado> sure
[10:57] <salgado> jbailey, there's another issue I had...
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[10:57] <salgado> we used to have a line like this: option root-path "192.168.99.4:/export/hoary,v3,rsize=16384,wsize=16384,tcp"; in our dhcpd.conf
[10:58] <salgado> but everything that comes after the comma seems to be treated as the rootpath
[10:58] <YokoZar> quick, someone name a windows EXE to test my wine package with.
[10:58] <jbailey> YokoZar: sol.exe
[10:59] <YokoZar> ok, one I can grab off google
[10:59] <jbailey> YokoZar: Oh, then putty.
[10:59] <YokoZar> hmm, ok, putty :)
[10:59] <jbailey> salgado: I don't know then dhcpd site of the NFS root.
[10:59] <YokoZar> Ok, works, great
[11:00] <wasabi_> dh_install doesn't seem to be able to rename, does it?
[11:00] <wasabi_> alas.
[11:00] <jbailey> salgado: But from where it got put, that seems right.
[11:00] <jbailey> salgado: I'm guessing there''s probably some other property that ought to be set.  What there any other obvious ones in the net-${DEVICE}.conf file?
[11:00] <jbailey> wasabi_: Cannot, correct.
[11:01] <salgado> jbailey, sorry, I'm not following you
[11:01] <jbailey> salgado: When you ran cat /tmp/net-eth0.conf in the initramfs, did you see any extra variables in there that might be useful for extra NFS options?
[11:02] <salgado> I thought about setting NFSOPTS in initramfs.conf as I saw it in the 'nfs' script
[11:02] <salgado> I don't recall having seen anything related to mount options
[11:02] <jbailey> Right, but that means an extra level of customisatoin.
[11:02] <jbailey> If it's possible to get the DHCP server to hand it out automatically, that would be ideal.
[11:03] <salgado> indeed
=== salgado reboots the test machine to check everything that is in /tmp/net-eth0.conf
[11:06] <jbailey> I see that SUNW supports:
[11:06] <jbailey> # SrootOpt, NFS mount options for the client's root file system
[11:06] <jbailey> option SUNW.root-mount-options code 1 = text;                       #optional
[11:06] <salgado> no luck. the only thing I see there is ROOTPATH, which is even truncated. :-(
[11:09] <jbailey> salgado: Looking through the ipconfig code, it's not one of the options.
[11:10] <jbailey> salgado: Dunno if there's something standardish that you can use.
[11:10] <jbailey> For now you have the initramfs.conf file as an option, anyway.
[11:10] <jbailey> Perhaps file that as a wishlist item and suggest that we honour option SUNW.root-mount-options "rsize=8192,wsize=8192,noxattr";
[11:11] <salgado> I guess that's okay for now. kiko already experimented a lot with different options, so I don't think we'll ned to change this soon
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[11:16] <cevizoglu> how does checkinstall know where files are going to end up?  does it use the kernel to do so?
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[11:18] <Amaranth> cevizoglu: it uses installwatch
[11:19] <Amaranth> This monitors <command> and logs using the syslog(3) facility every created
[11:19] <Amaranth>    or modified file.
[11:19] <Amaranth> that's what the installwatch README says
[11:20] <cevizoglu> ahh, thx  :)
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[11:27] <wasabi_> There a guide on proper creation of module source packages
[11:27] <wasabi_> ?
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[11:31] <YokoZar> You know what's exceptionally annoying?  The Synaptic "add custom repository" window has no name (and therefore is invisible on the taskbar) and jumps to the very back when you click another window, so you have to minimize everything to find it again.
[11:32] <YokoZar> Sometimes even a modal dialogue box is better than that ;)
[11:35] <cevizoglu> ugh, modal dialogs are the number one factor in poor user experience, imho
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[11:48] <carstenh> jbailey: ping
[11:48] <YokoZar> Is it too early for breezy backports?  I'm about ready to have Wine 0.9 into Dapper universe ;)
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[11:49] <madsen> Hey!
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[11:50] <madsen> Apparently no one in #ubuntu knows, or cares to answer what stat64() does... I've got an strace from a bad, bad mono install that's full of failing stat64()'s...
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[11:53] <cevizoglu> madsen, try man stat
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[11:53] <madsen> oh! :)
[11:54] <tseng> stat looks at a file
[11:54] <tseng> stat is the 64 bit equivenlant i imagine
[11:54] <madsen> That's weird, 'cause I'm on 32 bit...
[11:55] <slomo> the 64bit are for large files...
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[11:55] <madsen> Hmm, ok...
[11:55] <slomo> madsen: what fails there? mono looks for files which aren't there?
[11:56] <madsen> slomo: "stat64("libc.so.6", 0xbfb15b84)         = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)"
[11:56] <tseng> thats perfectly normal
[11:56] <tseng> its trying to walk LDPATH or so
[11:56] <tseng> to find its so
[11:56] <tseng> it will find it in /lib and move on
[11:57] <madsen> Hmm, ok... I'm just trying to find out why my mono is so screwed up.
[11:57] <tseng> can you be more specific without throwing in red herrings please?
[11:57] <tseng> what is the symptom
[11:58] <madsen> tseng: Well, there's an open() call to /lib/libc.so.6 way before the failing stat64()...
[11:58] <tseng> sigh
[11:58] <tseng> what is the *symptom*
[11:58] <madsen> tseng: Sorry, I was writing that when you asked...
[11:58] <tseng> ie, the reason you are looking at a trace to begin with
[11:58] <madsen> tseng: I know, I know... :)
[11:58] <madsen> tseng: All mono apps fail with the same non-descriptive error message....
[11:59] <madsen> "Unhandled Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object"
[11:59] <slomo> madsen: what's above that?
[11:59] <madsen> That goes for beagle, monodoc, banshee etc.
[11:59] <tseng> im guessing there is a lot surrounding that
[11:59] <tseng> above and below
[11:59] <slomo> i expect a missing assembly
[11:59] <tseng> please add it to a pastebin
[11:59] <madsen> slomo: Nothing but that...
[11:59] <tseng> pastebin.ca is nice
[12:00] <madsen> Ok, listen... There's only that single line!
[12:00] <jbailey> carstenh: pong
[12:00] <madsen> Nothing but my call to (beagle|banshee|monodoc) above it - and nothing but my bash promt below...
[12:01] <tseng> mono --debug /usr/lib/beagle/Best.exe
[12:01] <tseng> anymore for that?
[12:01] <madsen> tseng: Hang on, trying that. :)
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[12:02] <zakame> hi all