/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/10/31/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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judaxstarted to work on a spec for Adept User Guide and added section to DocteamProjects04:52
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judaxnight all06:20
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kevogodfiction --> http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html#addingbackports08:20
Burgundaviakevogod, why do you say that?08:22
Burgundaviakevogod, dapper has not yet even opened08:22
kevogodbreezy-backports does not exist08:22
Burgundaviayes, but that is a temporary thing08:22
Burgundaviafile a bug about needing a note for next time08:22
ajmitchwell08:22
Burgundaviastating "Backports may not start right away"08:23
ajmitchBurgundavia: what are the plans with svn & bzr?08:23
Burgundaviaajmitch, no idea08:23
Burgundaviawe have talked about it08:23
ajmitchI found this & felt like trying to port it to bzr - http://www.dur.ac.uk/j.r.c.geldart/projects/barter/screenshots.html08:23
=== ajmitch kills off his nautilus & tries it
Burgundaviayes, that looks very cool08:24
BurgundaviaI spoke to the developer of that a couple of months ago08:24
ajmitchah cool08:24
ajmitchhm, icons are missing08:24
ajmitchbut the 5-minute package I did seems to have worked08:25
ajmitchbbiab08:25
rob^hello08:33
rob^kevogod, no they are not yet, but will be eventually. When we write the doc we need to take everything into account, and after a certain date (string freeze) we cannot add/change the docs so it was a case of either include it now or never08:35
rob^and seeing as backports are an official project, and it is a faq when backports are available 08:36
rob^and it does no harm really to include it when they are not :)08:37
kevogodThey receive an error message.08:37
kevogodAnd it does not work.08:37
rob^yep08:38
rob^no harm though08:38
kevogodTo the computer, no.08:38
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kevogodTo the reliability of th e the document, yes.08:38
rob^before the review there was a note there about the issue. it was removed during review08:38
Burgundaviaoops08:39
rob^iirc08:39
Burgundaviawe should probably have a comment abut that for dapper08:39
rob^yeah08:39
rob^bbl baby needs feeding08:39
kevogodWhat is the schedule for backports, anyway?08:39
Burgundaviakevogod, no idea, we are the wrong people to ask08:39
Burgundaviakevogod, you need to talk to Mez08:40
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mdkekevogod, it is not an error with the doc, it is an error with the backports, the archive should have been created08:53
kevogodThey go hand in hand, IMHO.08:54
mdkeno, it is a bug with backports08:55
mdkewe can't represent all bugs in our documentation08:55
kevogodIt is not necessarily an error in theory in the document.08:55
mdkethere are plenty of errors in that document, but this is NOT one of them08:55
mdkethe backports archive should be created, especially because it is commented in the default sources.list08:55
kevogodShould've, could've, would've. The user does not care.08:56
mdkeok so go pester the backports people, there is nothing wrong with the doc08:57
mdkethere are thousands of bugs around, we can't predict them09:00
kevogodAs a whole, it is a good document. Thanks.09:01
mdke:)09:02
=== mdke bares his teeth
Madpilotheh09:03
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mdkeBurgundavia, had a look at BetterWikiDocs?09:13
Burgundaviamdke, not yet09:15
Burgundaviatook a look now09:17
Burgundaviaabout to go to bed, but will look at it tomorrow09:17
ajmitchI suppose I should start packaing09:17
Burgundaviacan you give feedback on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugReports09:17
ajmitchs/packaing/packing/09:17
BurgundaviaI would love to get it good enough to push to the fridge09:18
Burgundavianight all09:18
mdkenight09:18
ajmitchhmm09:18
ajmitchlooking like a fairly even split between duck & dragon on the fridge09:19
mdke:/09:19
=== mdke goes to work
=== Madpilot votes dragon... ;)
=== ajmitch voted dragon :)
mdkeyou guys suck09:22
mdkehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake#Animals09:23
mdkeperhaps it is the pokemon character09:23
Madpilotmdke: look under "Fictional creatures and characters" - first entry is for "European dragon" ;)09:25
mdkeyes09:25
mdkelook at the europea dragon page and search for "drake"09:25
Madpilotjust did, no results. <rude noise> 09:26
=== mdke really goes to work
Madpilotthe move to Linux, summed up: "Hey! We're not in CTRL-ALT-DEL any more!"09:27
Madpilotfrom http://theinquirer.net/?article=26935 via The Fridge09:27
ajmitchhah09:28
Madpilotit's a good article, actually.09:28
MadpilotI like the fifth paragraph down, about the "anguish and pain" ;)09:30
ajmitchyay09:31
ajmitchseems that my cd writer just doesn't want to cooperate today09:31
ajmitchso much for a fresh breezy install09:31
Madpilotit's contagious - I've got an audio CD here that won't play...09:32
ajmitchoh finally it starts doing something09:32
ajmitchmakes a few noises09:32
ajmitchcdrecord shows a tiny bit more09:33
=== ajmitch loves hardware
Madpilotmeh... it plays fine in my old CDROM, but not in the CD/DVD/burner...09:33
Madpilotgood thing I kept both drives... was going to ditch the CDROM09:34
Madpilothardware is indeed fun09:34
ajmitchyay09:35
ajmitchfinally I get..09:35
ajmitchcdrecord: CD/DVD-Recorder not ready.09:35
ajmitchit was because I tried using hdparm on the old cd write, I swear09:35
rob^go the dragon09:36
rob^hey has anyone checked out the adept user guide spec?09:37
rob^it reads too much like what the spec for the Kubuntu FAQ Guide should read for my liking..09:37
rob^total dupe of effort since we already have kudos as well09:38
rob^Seveas, you around?09:42
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Seveasrob^, yes11:20
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rob^Seveas, I do want to be part of the cc, but the meetings are usually on at 8am my time (I'm at work)11:32
Seveasrob^, next week will be different11:32
Seveasthere will be a special forums meeting and i want to sneak in your membership 11:32
rob^oh11:33
rob^when is it on?11:33
spaynewho here is from Wiki team?11:33
spaynehey Seveas 11:33
mdkespayne, what's up11:33
Seveaswill 03:00 UTC work for you?11:33
spaynemdke: i'd like to join the Wiki team :)11:33
rob^depends what day11:33
mdkespayne, right11:34
Seveasrob^, wednesday?11:34
rob^0300 UTC is 1pm here, also at work :(11:34
Seveasrob^, where are you?11:34
rob^east coast of Australia11:34
Seveaswhat times would work for you on wednesday/thursday next week?11:35
mdkespayne, there is no real barrier to entry on the wiki, just read all the docs and get to know the software11:35
rob^any time after 0700 UTC either day11:36
mdkespayne, it is not necessary to join a team as such at the moment, because everyone on the wiki has the same rights11:36
mdkespayne, but feel free to join the LP team if you want. Read the WikiGuide WikiTeam pages11:36
spaynemdke: will do - thanks11:37
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Madpilotspayne: also join the ubuntu-doc mailing list, if you haven't already. It's also the wiki discussion list, really...11:37
=== mdke nods
mdkejoining the LP team as such doesn't actually mean anything11:38
rob^Seveas, but before 1600 UTC at the latest11:39
rob^(which is like 2am)11:40
spayneMadpilot: done!11:40
rob^mdke you still around?11:55
mdkeyeah11:56
rob^just regarding the userguide, have you looked at the xfce userguide at all? (the way they do it)11:56
rob^basically the userguide is a simple overview and a few other things, the sections are written by others11:57
rob^there is a "user guide" and "manuals"11:57
rob^http://www.loculus.nl/xfce/documentation/docs-4.2/11:57
mdkei'll look11:57
mdkeok, but they don't have a StarterGuide11:58
mdkefor us, I see overlap as a MAJOR issue11:58
rob^it is11:58
mdkehence my suggestion 311:58
rob^see my comment on UserGuide11:58
mdkeok so you would faviour my suggestion 111:59
rob^if we choose to keep the userguide (just say), the way xfce do it would be easier to do then trying to write one massive document11:59
mdkei think that is gonna be pretty hard11:59
rob^I can't say suggestion 1 as I'm not the one contributing to it12:00
mdkesure12:00
rob^from where I sit suggestion three would be better12:00
mdkemy problem with suggestion 1 is not the contribution, it's the theoretical difficulty of finding a dividing line and applying it12:00
mdkethe userguide and starterguide would have to continuous interlink12:00
rob^it would be easier to scrap the user guide and make the faq guide the userguide (with much work)12:01
mdkewell, now you're getting into semantics ;)12:01
mdkethat is still suggestion 3 :)12:02
rob^i just made the other suggestion as I'm sure there will be people who are in love with the userguide but dont contribute :P12:02
mdkeheh12:02
rob^ok, well I'm happy with nr 312:03
mdkelooks like jerome is too12:04
rob^well thats all three of us ;)12:05
mdkebtw rob^ there is a thread on the forum about Unofficial versus Official guide12:05
rob^oh12:05
rob^I don't frequent the forums much, got a link?12:05
mdkeyeah12:06
mdkehttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=44416212:07
mdkesorry that is not the top12:08
rob^yeah12:08
=== rob^ had better sign up
=== rob^ tried a couple of weeks ago but it bumed out
Madpilotthe forums have even more silly crap and bad advice on them than #ubuntu ever does...12:13
rob^heh yeah I bet12:13
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Belutzhello all12:31
Belutzi'm confuse when translating the faqguide12:31
rob^hi Belutz 12:31
rob^whats the problem your having?12:31
Belutzwhen i'm translating the faqguide, should i presume that the user is using ubuntu in my language, or presume that the user is using ubuntu in english? because the menu names is different12:32
rob^off the top of my head I'd say your language, mdke?12:32
mdkeme too12:33
Belutzok then12:35
Belutz:)12:35
Belutzare there anything i could do for the doc team, instead just translating it?12:35
rob^there is always the wiki12:38
rob^we are always needing help there!12:38
Belutzok :)12:39
rob^if your into xml/docbook at all you can also check out our subversion repository12:39
Belutzmay i ask about the rosetta in here?12:39
mdkein #launchpad12:39
mdkefor docteam contributions, check out doc.ubuntu.com12:40
Belutzwell, i've been thinking to make a book of ubuntu in my language12:40
mdkecool12:46
mdkebut it is even cooler if you help on the English docs, so they can be made available in all languages!12:46
Belutzyes, i will help too, i'll be learning about the docbook12:47
mdkegreat12:48
Belutzi love ubuntu, and i have to contribute something to what i love12:48
mdke:)12:49
bhuvanthis is regarding rss for w.u.c/RecentChanges. i've a suggestion. shall we discuss here ?12:50
mdkebhuvan, what is the suggestion?12:53
bhuvanhow about including rss link in our RecentChanges page with 'link' html tag. it'd help firefox users in big extent12:55
rob^mdke, I replied to that thread12:55
bhuvansomething similar to the one we have at, http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/RecentChanges12:56
mdkebhuvan, i don't think that our wiki supports rss12:57
bhuvanit is!12:57
bhuvanjust try, RecentChanges?type=rss_rc12:57
bhuvans/type/action12:58
mdkeoh cool12:58
bhuvan:)12:58
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=== Belutz will subscribe to that rss
mdkehow do we enable it?12:59
bhuvanenable, it's fine if we make changes to the script which renders RecentChanges page12:59
bhuvanif you see the source code of http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/RecentChanges, there's a link tag. we can have something similar over here01:00
mdkeyes01:00
rob^mdke, whats with #57 on this thread? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=44004901:02
rob^"The New User Literature Project of the Ubuntu Marketing Team has created in brainstorm a scheme of guide-building inspired by the Unofficial Ubuntu Starter Guide"01:03
rob^what the heck?01:03
mdkeno idea01:03
rob^talk about stoming on the docteams toes01:03
rob^s/stoming/stomping01:04
mdkethat happens all the time, no worries01:05
rob^who the heck are ubuntupeople anyway?01:06
mdkeno idea01:06
Belutzthey say they are the marketing team01:10
mpthttp://www.ubuntupeople.com/file/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1701:10
rob^yeah just read that01:10
mptbbl, gotta conserve RAM...01:11
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rob^do these people even know whats happening in the ubuntu community or what?01:11
rob^wackos01:11
ajmitchoften the way01:11
ajmitchpeople get enthusiastic about something but don't think to work with the established community01:11
Belutzrob^, mdke, the docbook you're using are XML right? not SGML?01:11
mdkethat is correct01:12
mdkerob^, no cause for concern01:12
rob^no I'm not concerned, just dumbfounded01:13
Belutzok01:13
rob^alright, I'm going to bed, night mdke, ajmitch 01:13
ajmitchnight01:13
Belutznite nite rob^ 01:14
=== ajmitch should sleep now too
Belutznite nite ajmitch 01:14
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jsgotangcohi01:47
mdkehey jerome01:47
jsgotangcohey mdke :)01:49
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jsgotangcoADEPT ROCKS01:58
Kamping_Kaiserlol01:59
jsgotangcohehe02:00
=== jsgotangco is becoming kubuntu fanboi
Kamping_Kaiserwhat did you just do? or is this a general revelation?02:00
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jsgotangcohehe02:15
jsgotangcoi decided to punish (reward?) myself by committing to doing Kubuntu for dapper FULL TIME02:15
Kamping_Kaiserlol02:15
mdkefull time?02:35
mdkewhat about work?02:35
Seveasdos anyone have the e-mailaddress of rob^?02:43
mdkesure, he uses it on the mailing list02:43
Seveasah of course02:43
=== Seveas whacks some brain into his head
mdke<Robert.Stoffers@defence.gov.au>02:43
=== Kamping_Kaiser keeps forgetting robs in aus
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jsgotangcomdke: i meant full time kubuntu in my spare time :)02:53
jsgotangcoheheh02:53
mdke;)02:53
jsgotangcoi don't think Riddell has the budget to pay for slackers like me02:54
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jsgotangcohello jjesse 02:56
jsgotangco:)02:56
jjessemorning jsgotangco 02:56
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Lathiatbing!03:02
mdkehi03:02
mdkeread the spec?03:02
Lathiatreaidng now03:03
Lathiatbrb03:03
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mdkehey bob2 03:21
mdkewhich problem were you concerned has no evidence?03:21
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jjessemdke what was the spec for user guide? on the wiki03:31
mdkeUserGuide, but there is not much there03:32
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mdkebob2?03:33
mdkei added an example to the first bullet point, but would be interested in any improvements you might suggest03:34
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judaxmornin04:02
jjessemoring judax04:08
judaxhi jjesse 04:08
mdkerob^, i think I know why those xincludes aren't working, it must be because they are outside chapters. Inserting them into a chapter however screws up the dtd... so I can't think of any solution04:16
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jsgotangcoare we still in branch?04:30
mdkeyeah /me peers at jbailey 04:33
jjessekubuntu docs should be merged back into trunk per Riddell 04:39
jjesseRiddell: have you applied the kubuntu stylesheet to userguide yet?04:39
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jsgotangcojjesse: awesome04:50
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jsgotangcohehe i added an emblem to the lp doc team05:31
=== mdke looks
mdkenice05:31
mdkewe need a hackergotchi now05:32
jsgotangcoyeah05:36
jsgotangcohehe05:36
jsgotangcohmm05:36
jsgotangcois sean quinn still active?05:37
mdkei still maintain he has never committed05:39
jsgotangcodeactivate?05:39
jsgotangcowe'll see if he complains :)05:40
=== mdke nods
mdkeyou can always reactivate if he does something05:40
jsgotangcoyeah05:40
jsgotangcoi have 9 proposed members but i have no idea who these people are05:42
jsgotangcoi guess i have to email them :)05:42
mdkei know who some of them are05:44
mdkebut none of em have commit access05:44
mdkejbailey, did you get anywhere on the merge?05:52
=== mdke fears it will not get done before UBZ starts
mdkeperhaps we can do something?05:53
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jsgotangcomdke: it would be nice to have a doc like the starter guide link to UserDocumentation it has been improving a lot06:24
mdkeagreed06:24
mdkewe need that merge06:26
=== jsgotangco is not qualified to do such
mdkei wonder if all it takes is a bit of copy and pasting06:29
mdkejbailey!!06:32
jsgotangcosure its copy and pasting and making sure the entities *work*06:35
mdkewell isn't that quite easy?06:40
jsgotangcowell sure but i'd like to see the stuff that jbailey planned in the first place06:41
mdkeme too06:42
jsgotangcooh well06:42
jsgotangcoi gotta sleep06:42
jsgotangcoits past 106:42
jsgotangcohehe06:42
jsgotangcolater06:42
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mdkeanyone know how to insert some html code into the top of the faqguide html when I build it?08:13
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linuxboyhi09:54
linuxboyI got a question about a wiki doc09:54
linuxboycan I ask it here09:54
mdkesure09:56
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spaynelinuxboy: ogra is the edubuntu guy - he may be able to help09:58
linuxboyI have a bunch of ubuntu pcs at work, which I manage. I use things like 'dsh' to do so. Is there a wiki page/doc all about managing muliple ubuntu pcs in a office situation?09:58
linuxboyhes not here09:58
mdkelinuxboy, the best you can do is to use the search09:58
mdkeedubuntu uses ltsp, that's not what you want right?09:58
linuxboymdke: what do i search for?09:58
linuxboymdke: no09:58
linuxboyspayne: he work with highvoltage ?09:58
spaynelinuxboy: not sure but i know ogra is the main man for edubuntu09:59
mdkethey work on related projects09:59
linuxboyspayne: but its not edubuntu10:00
linuxboyits a bunch of normal ubuntu pcs10:00
linuxboybut I want this doc to have tips like "dsh"10:00
linuxboyif it doesn't exist, I'll start it10:00
spaynelinuxboy: go for it!10:01
linuxboyspayne: any ideas for a name?10:01
spaynelinuxboy: how about10:01
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linuxboyManagingMultipleUbuntuPCs ?10:01
spayneUbuntuOffice10:01
linuxboymdke: what do you think?10:02
spayneUbuntuOfficeEnvrionment10:02
mdkelinuxboy, anything you like10:03
linuxboywell...10:03
linuxboyUbuntuOfficeEnvrionment is too specific10:03
linuxboyand ManagingMultipleUbuntuPCs is too long10:03
mdkecut the "ubuntu"10:03
spaynelinuxboy: how about ManagingMultiplePCs10:03
spaynemdke:  :)10:03
linuxboycool10:03
mdkelinuxboy, check out the page WikiGuide for help on editing and rules for guides10:03
spaynemdke: Wiki people like me and mdke will check it out10:04
spaynewhoops!10:04
spaynethat was meant for linuxboy10:04
linuxboyheh10:05
linuxboywhat wiki does ubuntu use?10:05
linuxboywell10:06
mdkemoinmoin10:06
linuxboyok10:06
linuxboynever used that10:06
mdke:)10:06
linuxboyI've used mediawiki10:06
mdkethis is quite simple too10:07
mdkethat guide page should help a bit10:07
linuxboycool10:07
mdkeand point you towards more comprehensive docs if you need em10:07
linuxboynow, have I created an account?10:07
mdke:)10:07
linuxboyI'm not sure10:07
mdkeif not, now is the time10:07
mdkesearch for your name at https://launchpad.net/people10:07
linuxboyI'm busy remotly upgrading an ubuntu pc10:08
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linuxboyI have registered10:10
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linuxboyoh, hi highvoltage 10:11
highvoltagehi linuxboy 10:11
linuxboydidn't see you there10:11
highvoltagewhere?10:11
linuxboyso, I've now got my password10:12
highvoltageoh. here.10:12
linuxboywhats my username?10:12
highvoltageyour e-mail address, i think10:12
linuxboyah10:12
linuxboythat would make sense10:12
linuxboyhow the heck do I create a new page?10:14
linuxboyvisit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ManagingMultiplePCs?action=edit10:14
linuxboyI assume?10:14
highvoltagetype https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThisIsNewPage in URL10:14
highvoltageyep10:15
linuxboythen?10:15
linuxboywheres the edit button like mediawiki?10:15
highvoltageyou click on "Create new empty page"10:15
linuxboyYou are not allowed to edit this page.10:16
highvoltagewhat i do with moinmoin, is go to my UserPreferences,10:16
highvoltageand choose the option that double-click means edit.10:16
highvoltagethen i just double-click on the pages to edit them.10:16
linuxboywhere is UserPreferences ?10:17
highvoltagei have edubuntu skin... let me just switch...10:17
linuxboyah10:17
spaynelinuxboy: have you logged in?10:17
linuxboyfound it10:17
spayne:)10:17
=== farruinn [n=nathan@cpe-69-201-12-77.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc
mptMoinMoin's login process is a bit poor10:21
mptyou have to log in, then click Back twice, then click Reload10:21
mdkeyeah that blows10:23
linuxboyheh10:23
mdkenot like launchpad :)10:23
linuxboyI don't like moinmoni10:23
linuxboymoinmoin10:23
mdkei do :)10:23
highvoltagemoinmoin is okay, but it takes getting used to.10:23
mdkegive it a chance10:23
highvoltagepeople tend to have difficulty going from moinmoin to mediawiki or vice versa.10:24
linuxboyThank you for your changes. Your attention to detail is appreciated.10:24
linuxboyStatus of sending notification mails:10:24
linuxboy[en]  JeromeGotangco, DanielHolbach2, DanielRobitaille, JonathanRiddell, AndrewMitchell: Mail sent OK10:24
judaxjust added kde/adeptguide with first-pass skel of a doc and screenshots, etc.10:24
linuxboy10:24
linuxboyheh10:24
linuxboythey will see the crap I wrote10:24
=== mdke gasps
mdkeyou didn't insert a COMMENT!!10:25
mdkeyou must die10:25
highvoltagehehe10:25
=== linuxboy dies
linuxboyI'll read the rules *after* I've broken them10:25
mdkeit says to insert a comment on the WikiGuide10:25
mdkeif we succeed in moving the wiki documentation, we'll have to hack moin and make that mandatory :)10:26
jjessejudax: just saw the adeptguide stuff that rocks10:28
judaxjjesse: thx, very early, but it is a start10:28
mdkeoof nice work10:29
mdkewe should have that contribution stuff in a separate page though10:29
mdkeomg i was just looking at the spec, now I see there is a doc already too!10:31
mdkelike judax 10:31
mdkelike/nice10:31
judaxhehe, thx10:31
jjessehey kubuntu docs are quick now :)10:32
=== mdke pesters jbailey some more
judaxkubuntu rocks!10:33
linuxboynight guys10:34
judaxnight linuxboy 10:34
linuxboyI'll add real content to my wiki tomorrow10:34
mdkenite and welcome10:34
linuxboyif I get a chance10:34
=== karlheg [n=karlheg@host-250-237.resnet.pdx.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc
judaxjust found an open-box mac mini at the store for cheap-cheap, looks like it is time for kubuntu ppc11:22
spaynenight all11:47
spaynejudax: i just bought a Mac Mini - it is sweet ass!11:47
spaynejudax: i have it dual booting between OS X and Ubuntu11:48
spaynehttp://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/photos/CD-Macs.jpg11:48
judaxspayne: cool, I am glad I got it!11:48
spaynehttp://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/photos/SebFace.jpg11:48
spaynehttp://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/photos/SebMac.jpg11:48

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