[12:04] <bhuvan> sabdfl is there in #launchpad ?
[12:04] <Seveas> ogra, ack
[12:04] <sabdfl> evening all
[12:04] <Seveas> hi sabdfl 
[12:04] <zakame> hey sabdfl 
[12:04] <ajmitch> hi
[12:04] <spayne> there you go
[12:04] <ogra> yay sabdfl 
[12:04] <spayne> hey sabdfl 
[12:04] <ivoks> hi sabdfl 
[12:04] <panickedthumb> ello
[12:04] <dholbach> hi sabdfl :)
[12:04] <Seveas> the boss is here, all behave now...
[12:04] <sabdfl> mdz and i have a call in 30 mins
[12:04] <neuro|laptop> ah, the lesser known "hi flood"
[12:04] <ivoks> i can imagine his screen blinking :)
[12:04] <BayR00t> ivoks & edgar: ciao
[12:05] <sabdfl> elmo? Kamion?
[12:05] <zakame> neuro|laptop: haha
[12:05] <ogra> sabdfl, elmo is here, Kamion didnt speak up yet
[12:05] <smurf> sabdfl: elmo just joined, so unless he does that by cronjob I assume he's here ;-)
[12:05] <Kamion> hi, sorry, had totally forgotten about the meeting
[12:05] <spayne> Kamion: lol
[12:05] <Seveas> Kamion, welcome anyway :)
[12:06] <panickedthumb> kamion: woops
[12:06] <ogra> Kamion, hey, but you made it ;)
[12:06] <Kamion> elmo: thanks for the sms
[12:06] <panickedthumb> :)
[12:06] <Seveas> looks like we have 3 CC members so we can almost start
[12:06] <Seveas> Hello everybody, welcome to the Community Council Meeting. The agenda for today can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda. All member candidates, make sure your wikipage is up-to-date and prepare a 3 line introduction (which you will have to give in this channel) describing your past contributions to Ubuntu, your plans and your vision of the Ubuntu feature.
[12:06] <Seveas> Everybody who has an item on the agenda please prepare a few lines describing it. LocoTeam leaders on the agenda, prepare a few lines in which you describe the status of your team, what your team is currently doing and what the plans are.
[12:06] <keyes_PLF> Can we speak about PLF (a repository for illegal and litigious stuff like w32codecs or libdvdcss) now?
[12:06] <Seveas> keyes_PLF, no
[12:06] <ogra> is the agenda still from last meeting ? 
[12:06] <Seveas> ogra, no it's updated
[12:06] <keyes_PLF> thanks ...
[12:06] <ogra> really, looks the same somehow
[12:06] <ogra> modulo one or two items
[12:07] <Seveas> ogra, last week lots of people did not show up
[12:07] <vuntz> keyes_PLF: it needs to be in the agenda
[12:07] <sabdfl> keyes_PLF: could you add that to the next agenda?
[12:07] <keyes_PLF> ... agenda?
[12:07] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[12:07] <keyes_PLF> when?
[12:07] <panickedthumb> yeah that
[12:07] <zakame> indeed, last was a passover for NMs...
[12:07] <Seveas> Let's all state our name for the record
[12:07] <ogra> lest go on, sabdfl has to leave soon
[12:07] <sabdfl> in two weeks time, though i will be in montreal with the launchpad team
[12:07] <Riddell> Jonathan Riddell
[12:08] <Seveas> Since sabdfl has to leave soon, shall we start with member candidates?
[12:08] <sabdfl> perhaps we should rather handle the other business?
[12:09] <Yann2> mrf
[12:09] <Seveas> fine by me too, that means first up is the forums complaint
[12:09] <Yann2> quite late here, but if you wish ^ ^
[12:09] <ompaul> ompaul Paul O'Malley
[12:09] <bhuvan> bhuvan = Bhuvaneswaran
[12:10] <Yann2> well is there any special  reason to let other business go first this time? :(
[12:10] <Seveas> From the forums team only panickedthumb has arrived
[12:10] <sabdfl> ok, forums, then yann2, then other business, then other members
[12:10] <neuro|laptop> mmm, metabusiness :)
[12:10] <sabdfl> Yann2: mdz and i have distro conference calls in 19 minutes
[12:10] <Kamion> Yann2: yes it's very late for us too
[12:10] <Yann2> okok :)
[12:11] <sabdfl> planning for UBZ... MontrealMadnessBegins
[12:11] <panickedthumb> neither andrew (azz) nor jdodson can show up this time
[12:11] <mdz> and after 8 hours of calls already, we are eager to finish ;-)
[12:11] <ogra> sabdfl, dunno if it makes sense to talk about the forums if only one guy is here
[12:11] <Seveas> panickedthumb, neither has ubuntugeek or any other person
[12:11] <Kamion> this happened last week too
[12:11] <Seveas> please make sure they are here next time, we should defer for now imho
[12:11] <panickedthumb> FLeiXius is here, did he speak up?
[12:11] <sabdfl> so, the first links suggests good progress on an appropriate use policy for the forums
[12:11] <Kamion> there was only arzajac (I think)
[12:11] <panickedthumb> We should defer because Ryan said he can't come because of work
[12:11] <panickedthumb> but 
[12:12] <Seveas> but...?
[12:12] <panickedthumb> one thing we at least wanted to do is attempt to get a meeting time (whether next cc meeting or not) that we can hopefully all get to
[12:12] <bhuvan> +1
[12:13] <Seveas> panickedthumb, do you have a proposal now?
[12:13] <sabdfl> well, with many folks in montreal next week, we should be able to do a different timezone
[12:13] <panickedthumb> true
[12:13] <panickedthumb> that will help a lot
[12:13] <Seveas> sabdfl, suggestions?
[12:13] <panickedthumb> I don't have a proposal, at least  not a separate one from the one already up
[12:13] <ogra> sabdfl, next week is TB, isnt it ? 
[12:14] <panickedthumb> I'm just hoping w can plan a better time
[12:14] <sabdfl> Seveas: will you coordinate with cvd and ubuntugeek to setup a forums meeting for a morning next week wed/thu
[12:14] <sabdfl> ogra: special meeting is called for, i think
[12:14] <Seveas> sabdfl, I will
[12:14] <ogra> ah, yes
[12:14] <sabdfl> Seveas: CC, Forums admins, interested parties, here
[12:14] <panickedthumb> sabdfl, I don't think any morning is good for a lot of us because of work
[12:14] <Seveas> ok, move on to Yann2 now?
[12:15] <Seveas> panickedthumb, we'll settle on a date that is good for the forums team
[12:16] <sabdfl> panickedthumb: we can be flexible, nominate slots, people can say which they can make, we'll take the best one, done
[12:16] <sabdfl> Yann2: go
[12:16] <Yann2> I'm Yann HAMON from the french Ubuntu team.  I'm 21 years old, 3rd year student in computer science at a french/german institute: [WWW]  Isfates
[12:16] <Yann2> I started the french Ubuntu Locoteam by november 2004 with DavidLarlet. I'm the webmaster of that website with him, and we try to get the different teams (Rosetta, wiki, forum, planet) coordinated.
[12:16] <Yann2> I'm also operator on the #ubuntu-fr@freenode channel, making some support and trying to keep that channel as peaceful as it uses to be.
[12:16] <Yann2> David and I also do some advocacy for Ubuntu in France; Ubuntu-fr was for example represented at the "Fte de l'humanit" near Paris (see [WWW]  http://www.ubuntu-fr.org/photos/2005-09-12_fete_huma/ )
[12:16] <david`l> is it possible for me to be with Yann2 ? (we are linked with ubuntu-fr youy know)
[12:16] <panickedthumb> sabdfl, sounds great
[12:17] <sabdfl> Yann2: is it difficult to keep the channel peacefull?
[12:17] <Seveas> Yann2, how is the not-for-profit-organization thing going?
[12:17] <Yann2> sabdfl > it once was ^^
[12:17] <Yann2> Seveas > we're waiting to be ubuntu members for that ;)
[12:17] <Seveas> ok, cool
[12:18] <Seveas> Yann2 and david`l have done a good job on ubuntu-fr.org (except that some parts don't work in IE ;))
[12:18] <ivoks> Seveas: that's a very good job then :)
[12:18] <Seveas> The french Ubuntu community looks alive too, so nice job there
[12:18] <smurf> +1 for yann from me, he has been very helpful getting hosting and donations for our teams organized
[12:18] <ogra> Seveas, we use png everywhere on the ubuntu pages ;) 
[12:19] <sabdfl> site looks very nice. Yann2 is that mostly your work?
[12:19] <Seveas> ogra, it's the map stuff
[12:19] <ogra> tsk
[12:19] <Yann2> sabdfl > not reeally, I paid the design in beers ;)
[12:19] <Seveas> you should have paid in Ubuntu CDs
[12:20] <Yann2> (just a hint to this, people are selling Ubuntu Cds in large quantities here)
[12:20] <neuro|laptop> CDs don't taste as good as beer tho :)
[12:20] <Yann2> (mostly at install parties and conferences :( )
[12:20] <spayne> neuro|laptop: very very true
[12:21] <Seveas> sabdfl, elmo, Kamion +1/0/-1 on Yann2? 
[12:21] <Kamion> Yann2: there was some discussion a while back about the ubuntu europe thing, with respect to trademarks and such; how's the discussion on that going?
[12:21] <Kamion> Seveas: wait
[12:21] <Seveas> Kamion, sorry
[12:21] <Belutz> sorry i'm late, me = Andi Darmawan
[12:21] <Kamion> (yeah, I know I should be up-to-date on that discussion myself, but ...)
[12:22] <Yann2> Kamion > abandonned, but we're actually setting up a ubuntu-fr organisation...
[12:22] <Yann2> :)
[12:22] <Kamion> ah, interesting
[12:22] <sabdfl> +1 from me on Yann
[12:22] <Seveas> Yann2, when that's finished, a report of what you did would probably be useful for other locoteams
[12:22] <sabdfl> Yann2: good work on the web site and local community, thanks for your energy!
[12:23] <Yann2> we'll certainly set up some kind of agreement between de/fr too, as we probably need a common bank account, we have to plan a de/fr meeting soon
[12:23] <Yann2> Seveas > will do
[12:23] <sabdfl> be careful, when you are handling donated funds, it requires lots of care, ok?
[12:23] <Kamion> +1 on Yann2, echoing sabdfl's advice :)
[12:23] <smurf> -de not-for-profit set-up is progressing, we'll complete that this year
[12:23] <ogra> elmo, ?
[12:23] <sabdfl> raise any issues here sooner rather than later, if something is going to blow up i'd rather know early
[12:23] <smurf> sabdfl: exactly
[12:23] <Yann2> sabdfl > that's the reason we want to create the organisation, the monney actually belongs to smurf and I :p
[12:24] <sabdfl> ok
[12:24] <Yann2> ok
[12:24] <sabdfl> next, any other business?
[12:24] <ogra> mjg59 voting ?
[12:24] <elmo> ack for yann
[12:24] <Yann2> i'm done ^^ :)
[12:24] <Seveas> Yann2, congratz
[12:24] <neuro|laptop> spayne's here for his member vote too
[12:24] <vuntz> congrats, Yann2 :-)
[12:24] <Yann2> \o/ :)
[12:24] <spayne> well done Yann2 
[12:24] <david`l> flicitations Yann2 :)
[12:25] <dholbach> welcome Yann2 
[12:25] <Kamion> can somebody else handle the launchpad registration stuff this week? my mouse is acting up and operating a web application is kind of PAIN right now
[12:25] <neuro|laptop> congrats Yann2 
[12:25] <spayne> yes, i'm here for membership as well
[12:25] <seb128> congrats Yann2
[12:25] <Seveas> sabdfl, one point from me: IRC registration is finally moing forward
[12:25] <panickedthumb> congrats yahh
[12:25] <zakame> w00t Yann2 !
[12:25] <panickedthumb> I mean Yann
[12:25] <ogra> congrats Yann2 
[12:25] <seb128> Yann2: welcome :)
[12:25] <spayne> let me know when you need me :)
[12:25] <Seveas> spayne, you'll have to be deferred, sabdfl has to leave
[12:25] <ivoks> Yann2: yay! ;)
[12:25] <spayne> Seveas: what!
[12:25] <sabdfl> no no
[12:25] <sabdfl> sec
[12:25] <spayne> Seveas: i can't make the next one :(
[12:26] <Seveas> spayne, there will always be other meetings :)
[12:26] <Kamion> Seveas: hold up a second, we're just talking about that
[12:26] <Seveas> Kamion, ok
[12:26] <Kamion> Seveas: (... but don't go away ...)
[12:26] <sabdfl> ok, we are going to try something new
[12:26] <sabdfl> for the purposes of approving membership applications, i'd like to delegate a vote to each of smurf, seveas and dholbach
[12:26] <Seveas> Kamion, i'm not leaving, I just tried to rush this half hour so we could treat a lot while sabdfl was around :)
[12:27] <ogra> wow
[12:27] <Seveas> sabdfl, thanks for the trust in us
[12:27] <spayne> wow! thanks sabdfl 
[12:27] <dholbach> sabdfl: thank you
[12:27] <ivoks> nice :)
[12:27] <sabdfl> Seveas: if you could mail the -devel list with the details of any new members approved, that would be appreciated, cc CC ;-)
[12:27] <Kamion> I think this is just for this time round while we're short on board members, though I could be wrong there
[12:27] <smurf> sabdfl: Just for thi meeting?
[12:27] <neuro|laptop> spayne: quick, give biscuits to Seveas, smurf and dholbach :>
[12:27] <Seveas> sabdfl, sure
[12:27] <Kamion> and we'll see how well it works anyway
[12:28] <sabdfl> smurf: for now, but i think it would be good to set up a more regular set of membership-interview meetings, so the CC can focus on issues like the forums, IRC registration, processes etc
[12:28] <sabdfl> let's discuss that at UBZ?
[12:28] <smurf> sabdfl: sure
[12:28] <dholbach> yeah, good idea
[12:28] <ivoks> +1
[12:28] <spayne> sabdfl: sounds like a good idea
[12:28] <Seveas> sabdfl, rad, too bad I can't make it to UBZ though
[12:29] <sabdfl> i see a lot of proposed members at https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+members so clearly we need to be able to accommodate them
[12:29] <ajmitch> shall the grill^Winterviewing proceed then?
[12:29] <spayne> well, i'm here and willing :)
[12:29] <ogra> sabdfl, any quick word on mjg59 before you leave ? he's on the agenda ...
[12:29] <sabdfl> ogra: voting continues till the...
[12:29] <panickedthumb> lol ajmitch
[12:29] <ogra> ahh, k
[12:29] <Seveas> ogra, that's an error of mine
[12:29] <jbailey> The poll is still broken for me.
[12:29] <sabdfl> 29th
[12:29] <jbailey> Bug 3164 in LP is still onot fixed for that.
[12:29] <ivoks> Seveas: when are loco teams on agenda?
[12:29] <jbailey> I hope it will be before the voting stops.
[12:29] <sabdfl> jbailey: broken for you?
[12:30] <Seveas> I propose that we continue the meeting from the top of the agenda
[12:30] <ajmitch> sabdfl: a few of them are existing members who aren't on the launchpad team
[12:30] <jbailey> sabdfl: Yup, launchpad error.  The link is in the email (which is why it's marked confidential)
[12:30] <Seveas> sabdfl, once again thanks for the trust in smurf dholbach and myself
[12:30] <jbailey> sabdfl: I tested it an hour or two ago and I still get an error page.
[12:30] <smurf> Seveas: seconded
[12:31] <sabdfl> jbailey: ok, i will try to take care of it. does it affect lots of people?
[12:31] <spayne> just let me know when you're ready for me
[12:31] <Seveas> ErdalRonahi / JanHusar / ZarulSharin, are you around?
[12:31] <jbailey> sabdfl: I don't know off hand.  I'd be a bit worried that it did, but I didn't see others while searching.
[12:32] <Seveas> not around I suppose?
[12:32] <Seveas> ivoks, the stage is yours
[12:32] <ivoks> :/
[12:32] <ivoks> Seveas: thanks
[12:32] <sabdfl> cheers all
[12:32] <spayne> thanks sabdfl 
[12:32] <ogra> bye sabdfl 
[12:32] <panickedthumb> cheers
[12:32] <ivoks> whole -hr team is here, by name kreso_ edgar 
[12:32] <Seveas> cheers sabdfl 
[12:32] <neuro|laptop> cya sabdfl 
[12:32] <sabdfl> jbailey: i will land a fix for cherrypicking into production asap
[12:32] <ivoks> bye sabdfl 
[12:32] <zakame> bye sabdfl 
[12:32] <jbailey> sabdfl: Tx.
[12:32] <dholbach> *wave sabdfl*
[12:32] <BayR00t> bye sabdfl, cu
[12:33] <ivoks> and BayR00t :)
[12:33] <Seveas> ivoks, -hr? I though croatia was -cr?
[12:33] <keyes_PLF> good bye ...
[12:33] <ivoks> Seveas: nope, we are -hr
[12:33] <Seveas> #
[12:33] <Seveas> CroatianTeam (Contact: AnteKaramatic)
[12:33] <Seveas> #
[12:33] <ivoks> yes
[12:33] <ivoks> HR is id for croatia
[12:33] <Seveas> ah, ok
[12:33] <smurf> Seveas: .cr is Costa Rica
[12:33] <Seveas> well, what's up in eastern europe?
[12:33] <BayR00t> croatia = english/latin name for hrvatska (.hr)
[12:34] <ivoks> so, we are setting up ubuntu.grad.hr
[12:34] <dholbach> ivoks: how many croatian people are on irc regularly? (not in this meeting :))
[12:34] <ivoks> dholbach: not many, but that will change soon
[12:34] <spayne> have i got time to just nip away from  a few minutes
[12:34] <ivoks> we have few good supporters that aren't in our team
[12:34] <ivoks> but could join very soon
[12:34] <spayne> before you need me?
[12:34] <dholbach> you adopted an irc channel already?
[12:34] <Kamion> ivoks: what'll ubuntu.grad.hr be?
[12:34] <ivoks> dholbach: yes ubuntu-hr, it's registred
[12:34] <ivoks> Kamion: web portal with wiki and forums
[12:35] <ivoks> Kamion: i'm even thinking on creating local mirror
[12:35] <BayR00t> Kamion: and news
[12:35] <Seveas> ivoks, poke smurf to forward ubuntu-hr.org to your site
[12:35] <ivoks> since hr.archive.ubuntu.com is slower then de. mirror
[12:35] <Kamion> hr.archive == archive at the moment
[12:35] <ivoks> Seveas: i wanted to ask that yes
[12:35] <ivoks> Kamion: i know, i'm hopping to change that
[12:35] <smurf> ivoks: just send me an email with the details
[12:35] <Kamion> if you get a mirror set up with reasonable bandwidth, contact Znarl, who runs our mirror network, and that can be updated
[12:36] <ivoks> smurf: is it possible to get MX record too? :)
[12:36] <ivoks> Kamion: gigabit bandwith
[12:36] <smurf> ivoks: sure, just tell me where it should point to
[12:36] <Kamion> I believe that's adequate, but talk to Znarl for requirements
[12:36] <ivoks> smurf: ok
[12:36] <ivoks> Kamion: ok
[12:36] <ivoks> so, if it's needed, team can introduce themselfs
[12:36] <ivoks> acctually, members of team :)
[12:37] <Seveas> what are your plans apart from the website?
[12:37] <ivoks> marketing
[12:37] <Seveas> (and the archive)
[12:37] <ivoks> for a start just being noisy
[12:37] <ivoks> :)
[12:37] <Seveas> hehe, noise works, really :)
[12:37] <Kamion> mm, we often ask people about local user-group organisation and the like
[12:37] <ivoks> localisation is our main objective
[12:37] <edgar> workshops
[12:37] <Seveas> Kamion, you stole my next question ;)
[12:37] <ivoks> :)
[12:38] <ivoks> sorry... wifi connection... laggy
[12:38] <Seveas> ivoks, what is the status of this sort of interaction?
[12:38] <ivoks> we have very good linux user group (http://www.linux.hr)
[12:38] <spayne> Seveas: have i got time to nip away for a few minutes before you need me?
[12:39] <Seveas> spayne, no, you're next
[12:39] <ivoks> Seveas: there are many conferences happening in last two-three years
[12:39] <spayne> Seveas: ok - i can wait. thanks
[12:39] <ivoks> beside that there are even more locally based happenings
[12:39] <Seveas> cool
[12:39] <ivoks> edgar and BayR00t can tell you about their acctivity in pula
[12:39] <dholbach> ivoks: will the team be at those conferences?
[12:39] <dholbach> ah ok
[12:39] <ivoks> dholbach: of course
[12:39] <zakame> wow
[12:40] <BayR00t> we hosted first TransHackMeeting last year
[12:40] <BayR00t> cooperate with hacklabs in italy, amsterdam, france etc
[12:40] <ivoks> dholbach: we have few professionals for web, system administration in team
[12:40] <Seveas> nn vuntzZz 
[12:40] <ivoks> dholbach: so we could even go fruther from loclteam
[12:40] <ivoks> locoteam
[12:40] <Seveas> ivoks, sounds good
[12:41] <smurf> ivoks: sounds like you've got goals. Keep after them ;-)
[12:41] <ivoks> smurf: sure we do
[12:41] <edgar> we have 15 machines on Ubuntu, workshops, kids, etc...
[12:41] <BayR00t> been talking with eben moglesn, lawrence lessig etc ;)
[12:41] <Seveas> Any more questions for the 'defendants'?
[12:41] <BayR00t> hopefuly we'll organize croatian first hackmeeting
[12:42] <Kamion> I'm happy, seems to be plenty of local organisation and energy
[12:42] <Kamion> good work, keep it up, etc. :-)
[12:42] <BayR00t> thx
[12:42] <ivoks> :)
[12:42] <Seveas> yeah, +1 on that
[12:42] <dholbach> yeah, i'm quite happy too
[12:42] <kreso_> we are all trying, kamion
[12:42] <Seveas> keep us posted
[12:42] <ivoks> Seveas: of course
[12:42] <Seveas> Next up: Seb Payne
[12:42] <dholbach> ivoks: is your blog on planet ubuntu already?
[12:42] <ivoks> Seveas: i'm here every day :)
[12:42] <ivoks> dholbach: if you didn't saw my new snowboard - then no :)
[12:43] <Seveas> ivoks, ping jdub
[12:43] <Seveas> let the planet grow :)
[12:43] <ajmitch> spayne went out for a few minutes, right?
[12:43] <ivoks> i allready did... will do that again..
[12:43] <Kamion> dholbach: how's spayne been doing in motu?
[12:43] <dholbach> ivoks: yes ,talk to jdub, so we know what's going on in croatia
[12:43] <ivoks> dholbach: ok
[12:43] <Seveas> ChrisCole around?
[12:43] <panickedthumb> ok I gotta run guys. Good luck to everyone up for membership, congrats to anyone who gets it. Talk to you all later.
[12:43] <dholbach> Kamion: he packaged resapplet and was quite communicative in our channel
[12:43] <BayR00t> greeting from croatia, thx for having us. ciao
[12:44] <dholbach> Kamion: afaik he worked on a couple of other packages, which are not in ubuntu yet
[12:44] <spayne> here
[12:44] <spayne> right
[12:44] <spayne> Wiki Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SebPayne. Hi All. My name is Seb Payne. 16. in England. Using Ubuntu since December 2004. Made various contributions in the form of documentation, packaging and debugging. My main thing I enjoy (and resonabally good at) is documentation which is described on my Wiki page. I have also worked with the Novell teams on Hula and iFolder to get them building on Ubuntu, when they had previously not wor
[12:44] <spayne> whoops! sorry it is a bit long
[12:45] <dholbach> spayne: did you get in contact with the ubuntu documentation project already?
[12:45] <Kamion> I was about to ask that :)
[12:45] <Seveas> anyone from docteam who can vouch for spayne ?
[12:45] <Seveas> ah damn - 3 souls one mind... and i am the slowest...
[12:45] <spayne> i have not done enough work yet to join the docteam
[12:45] <dholbach> spayne: because i saw your blog and liked the style of writing / depicting :)
[12:45] <Kamion> the bulk of Seb's contributions seem to be in documentation so far
[12:45] <Yann2> chui dj all voir un match  Lens ^^
[12:46] <dholbach> ... / cheerleading :)
[12:46] <Yann2> oups
[12:46] <Yann2> wrong chan sorry ;)
[12:46] <spayne> i am trying to get things from other sources and get them onto the Ubuntu Wiki
[12:46] <spayne> like from the Hula, iFolder wiki for example
[12:46] <Seveas> nice
[12:46] <Kamion> though eep, that mono/hoary howto is evil :)
[12:46] <spayne> to help users as it is rather confusing
[12:46] <ajmitch> spayne: some of the documentation could do with fixes though
[12:46] <spayne> Kamion: i knew and know it is evil
[12:46] <ajmitch> like avoiding installing source into /usr :)
[12:46] <segfault> is the meeting already over?
[12:46] <Seveas> spayne, be sure you don't violate licenses when you copy other peoples work
[12:46] <Kamion> spayne: yeah, I followed the link for that reason ;)
[12:46] <Seveas> segfault, no
[12:46] <Kamion> segfault: no, in progress
[12:47] <segfault> ah, thank god
[12:47] <segfault> :)
[12:47] <dholbach> spayne: what do you think about getting the mono stuff into the distro properly?
[12:47] <spayne> Seveas: i always check with people
[12:47] <ogra> dholbach ??
[12:47] <dholbach> erm, maybe i wasnt explicit enough:
[12:47] <ogra> dholbach, whats wrong with mono ?
[12:47] <ogra> apps ?
[12:47] <spayne> dholbach: i think it is an excellent idea but we must be careful. Mono may still have problems but I love Mono and there are some excellent guys working on it
[12:47] <spayne> dholbach: i believe that Beagle should be standard on Dapper
[12:48] <spayne> dholbach: and fully intergrated into the desktop - as in SUSE to make Ubuntu stand out
[12:48] <Seveas> spayne, it just tried to eat jdubs harddrive, so it's clearly not mature enough ;)
[12:48] <ogra> beagle is a pain on my laptop HD ...
[12:48] <Kamion> spayne: what's this Evolution Colt thing you mention in your wiki page?
[12:48] <dholbach> yeah, that'd be nice
[12:48] <ogra> but f-spot should really replace gthumb one day
[12:48] <spayne> ogra: totally agreed
[12:48] <spayne> Kamion: it is my own personal business
[12:48] <Kamion> ah
[12:49] <spayne> Kamion: i give advice and reports on how to intergrate Open Source software into current systemns
[12:49] <ajmitch> ogra: definitely, and I'm not biased in any way whatsoever
[12:49] <ogra> heh
[12:49] <spayne> Kamion: i have had lots of success with home users
[12:49] <spayne> Kamion: small business again, good
[12:49] <dholbach> spayne: but about ifolder and other mono-packages i don't yet know... do you think we can get them better working in the distro?
[12:49] <ogra> ajmitch, its te only app that can import pics from my casio exilim i bought yesterday
[12:49] <spayne> dholbach: iFolder is a trickey one
[12:49] <ajmitch> dholbach: once ifolder's licensing is sorted :)
[12:49] <spayne> dholbach: as part of it is non-FOSS
[12:49] <ajmitch> dholbach: but that's another topic altogether
[12:49] <Seveas> spayne, you might want to consider joining the marketing team
[12:49] <dholbach> ahhh, thaT's the problem
[12:49] <dholbach> i see
[12:49] <Kamion> spayne: nice - good Ubuntu take-up?
[12:50] <spayne> dholbach: but from what i heard, by Dapper the whole thing will be FOSS
[12:50] <spayne> Kamion: yes, very
[12:50] <spayne> Kamion: i am working on a product at the moment called Evolution Desktop
[12:50] <ajmitch> spayne: have you worked with the mono team at all?
[12:50] <Kamion> the more small businesses of that kind there are to act as a bridge to end users, the better
[12:50] <spayne> ajmitch: i'm packaging Dopi at the moment so i am working with slomo and tseng
[12:51] <spayne> Evolution Desktop will provide our themeing and extra packages for those who don't have broadband
[12:51] <spayne> we are looking at providing Mac Minis with Ubuntu and OS X
[12:51] <spayne> as this is a totally awesome package
[12:52] <spayne> i have also done some research on GNOME
[12:52] <spayne> with people of my own age
[12:52] <spayne> and how they view Ubuntu and GNOME
[12:52] <spayne> and got some interesting results which I hope to publish in the future
[12:52] <spayne> i tried to start the TeenGNOME project to do this
[12:52] <smurf> spayne: sounds like you've got a full plate, keep it up ;-)
[12:52] <spayne> but not had much time at the moment, with one thing and another
[12:52] <Seveas> Ok, i'd like to start the voting with a 0 -- I'd like to see spaynes documentations efforts be integrated into the wiki before giving a +1, but I don't wanna give a -1 either
[12:52] <spayne> smurf: very much so yes :)
[12:53] <spayne> Seveas: what do i need?
[12:53] <spayne> hi tseng
[12:53] <Seveas> spayne, you need a majority of the temporary CC to vote in favor, i'm staying neutral :)
[12:54] <spayne> Seveas: i can understand :)
[12:54] <Seveas> smurf, dholbach, Kamion, elmo?
[12:54] <smurf> +1 from me, I'm confident he'll keep up the good work
[12:54] <ogra> just to give an additional voice, spayne is also active in #ubuntu-motu since quite a while
[12:54] <spayne> thanks ogra :)
[12:55] <ogra> :)
[12:55] <Kamion> I don't have a problem with spayne for membership - seems that you need a fair bit more experience in MOTU before any kind of maintainership decision, but that's a different matter. Working with the docteam and/or MOTU for a while would be great.
[12:55] <dholbach> spayne: i like you enthusiasm and that you're looking into many teams. i'm happy to give a +1, if you promise to make the ubuntu doc team even harder :-)
[12:55] <spayne> dholbach: i will work my little socks off :)
[12:55] <Seveas> ok, that's 3 points already
[12:55] <dholbach> spayne: that sounds good :)
[12:56] <Seveas> spayne, unofficially welcome on board, we're just waiting for elmo to finish the voting :)
[12:56] <spayne> lol
[12:56] <Seveas> in the mean time: zyga you're up
[12:57] <elmo> spayne: I'm a little confused by your flip-flop attitude to ubuntu, and how you distro-hop
[12:57] <spayne> elmo: that was some time ago :)
[12:57] <elmo> spayne: oh?
[12:57] <spayne> elmo: in the past few months, i've really stuck with Ubuntu
[12:57] <spayne> elmo: i do have a life outside my blog FYI ;)
[12:57] <spayne> elmo: i may have experimented with other things
[12:58] <elmo> spayne: umm, not being funny dude, but I've seen you say on #hula "except I no longer use Ubuntu"... less than a month ago
[12:58] <elmo> just to pick a random example
[12:58] <spayne> elmo: a lot can happen in a month
[12:58] <spayne> elmo: obviously, if i become a member, i am not going to "flip-flop" around
 elmo: in the past few months, i've really stuck with Ubuntu
 elmo: a lot can happen in a month
[12:58] <spayne> elmo: if i have responsonsibilities
[12:58] <spayne> elmo: i will carry them out to the best of my nature
[12:59] <spayne> or is that ability
[01:00] <elmo> well, hmm, I'm still confused sorry - I'm going to abstain on this one; happy to be proved wrong
[01:00] <Kamion> membership's a combination of recognising ongoing contribution to Ubuntu, and publicly acknowledging people as members of the community
[01:00] <Kamion> the latter does convey a responsibility in that other people see you as a representative of Ubuntu in some contexts
[01:01] <Seveas> ok, voting is over, 3 in favor and 2 abstain
[01:02] <Seveas> spayne, welcome aboard
[01:02] <spayne> thanks guys!
[01:02] <Kamion> I'm a bit concerned, would like to keep an eye on how this goes
[01:02] <neuro|laptop> woo
[01:02] <spayne> thanks everyone!
[01:02] <neuro|laptop> congrats spayne 
[01:02] <Seveas> Kamion, you mean this voting system or spaynes approval?
[01:02] <neuro|laptop> just keep up the good work and you'll have nothing to worry about
[01:02] <Kamion> Seveas: spayne's approval with some of the weird inconsistencies above
[01:03] <Kamion> if he's keeping up the good work, then obviously there's nothing to complain about :)
[01:03] <Seveas> ack
[01:03] <Seveas> spayne, would you mind coming back in a month and give a small progress report?
[01:03] <dholbach> yeah, that'd be nice
[01:03] <spayne> Seveas: not bother at all
[01:03] <Seveas> ok, noted
[01:03] <Seveas> david`lap, then the stage is now yours
[01:04] <smurf> spayne: in other words, expect the Spanish Inquisition if you don't live up to the job
[01:04] <Seveas> rofl :)
[01:04] <spayne> smurf: my membership will be renounced?
[01:04] <smurf> spayne: I cannot decide that
[01:04] <neuro|laptop> neeeeooooooobody expects the ubuntu inquisition
[01:04] <spayne> smurf: i am very happy with that because i am going to work hard
[01:04] <Seveas> david`lap..?
[01:05] <david`lap> yes
[01:05] <tseng> neuro|laptop: its helpful to keep noise to a minimum so things can proceed more quickly. thanks.
[01:05] <david`lap> I'm David Larlet from the french locoteam. I'm 23 years old and I'm doing a masters' in bio-informatics in Paris.
[01:05] <david`lap> I'm not a developer but I try to help users and to spread ubuntu as possible as I can, I'm ubuntu-fr co-founder with yann and I organize release and install parties in Paris. 
[01:05] <david`lap> I've setup servers for ubuntu-fr/de and I hope we can create the ubuntu-fr not-for-profit association soon.
[01:05] <david`lap> One of my secret goal is to develop an rss aggregator in python, maybe for gnome but it's still a project (for the moment we are two and we write future features on a wiki) and I need to find more time but stay tunned ;)
[01:05] <Seveas> nn mvo 
[01:05] <ogra> night        mvo
[01:05] <zakame> bye mvo 
[01:05] <mvo> night all
[01:06] <Seveas> david`lap, you were the guy who Yann2 paid in beers for the design?
[01:06] <Yann2> nope ;)
[01:06] <david`lap> no :)
[01:06] <smurf> david`lap: what's happening in the -fr locoteam / ubuntu-fr.org site?
[01:06] <Seveas> david`lap, then please elaborate a bit more about your role in the #ubuntu-fr team
[01:06] <Yann2> he's actually the co-founder - we're splitting our tasks in 2 :)
[01:07] <david`lap> Seveas, I'm with Yann2 for all tasks
[01:07] <Yann2> in fact he does quite the same work as I do
[01:07] <david`lap> and I try to organize events in Paris too
[01:07] <Seveas> how many members does your locoteam have, and how many users are using your forum ?
[01:07] <david`lap> smurf, I don't understand
[01:07] <Yann2> Seveas > define member
[01:08] <Yann2> about 5000 users on the forum
[01:08] <david`lap> 6000 Yann2 ;)
[01:08] <david`lap> 110 000 posts
[01:08] <Seveas> not bad
[01:08] <dholbach> david`lap: you said you help people. is that in #ubuntu-fr? #ubuntu? on mailing lists? or people around the block?
[01:08] <david`lap> about 10000 visits a day
[01:08] <ogra> seb128, a word from a french guy ? 
[01:09] <david`lap> dholbach, on #ubuntu-fr of course, on mailing-list and on the forum too
[01:09] <dholbach> yeah, who can speak up for david`lap?
[01:09] <david`lap> more over I coordinate french documentation
[01:09] <Yann2> david also is in charge for setting up the servers, he's the one running to the datacenter every two weeks :D
[01:09] <Seveas> david`lap, where can we find this documentation?
[01:09] <david`lap> yes unfortunatly...
[01:10] <david`lap> Seveas, http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/accueil
[01:10] <seb128> ogra: they are both doing a great job
[01:10] <seb128> ubuntu-fr rocks
[01:10] <ogra> sounds good :)
[01:11] <david`lap> and we try to coordinate french documentation and translations with others team (kde, gnome...)
[01:11] <Seveas> cool
[01:11] <dholbach> david`lap: how many guys are you in paris?
[01:11] <david`lap> dholbach, about 12 at the last breezy party 
[01:11] <dholbach> cool
[01:11] <david`lap> yes really
[01:11] <Seveas> +1 from me
[01:11] <dholbach> keep pushing them to the conferences / install parties :)
[01:12] <smurf> +1 from me also
[01:12] <david`lap> dholbach, ok I will do
[01:13] <Seveas> 2 down, 3 to go
[01:13] <dholbach> one final question: do you see much of the ubuntu-fr folks in some ubuntu team soon?
[01:13] <david`lap> dholbach, about my personal contributions you can find it on http://www.biologeek.com/journal/index.php/Ubuntu but it's in french...
[01:13] <Yann2> dholbach > we're actually discussing that
[01:13] <Yann2> that needs to be defined anyway for the trademark agreemend
[01:13] <seb128> david`lap: dholbach loves french :)
[01:14] <dholbach> like the artwork team, the MOTUs, the doc team, the translators, ...
[01:14] <Yann2> oh you meant that :)
[01:14] <Seveas> killall evolution
[01:14] <Seveas> meh, wrong window
[01:14] <Yann2> dholbach > principally translator and docteam, yes
[01:14] <zakame> haha
[01:14] <ogra> Seveas, filed a bug ? ;)
[01:14] <david`lap> dholbach, I'm a beginner in python but I do my best
[01:15] <seb128> Seveas: evolution --force-shutdown rather
[01:15] <david`lap> I've a project and I hope it's not a vaporware
[01:15] <dholbach> cool, very nice - so, yeah, i'm quite happy to see david`lap as a member too :)
[01:15] <Seveas> ok, 3 down
[01:15] <david`lap> thanks a lot
[01:15] <Seveas> kamion and elmo?
[01:16] <Kamion> sorry, was distracted by CD build crap
[01:16] <Seveas> np
[01:16] <spayne> thanks again
[01:17] <spayne> night all
[01:17] <ogra> night spayne 
[01:17] <zakame> bye spayne 
[01:17] <Kamion> +1 based on lots of approving comments from people I know above
[01:17] <Seveas> 4 down ;)
[01:17] <spayne> thanks again guys
[01:18] <Seveas> zakame, you're up next, please prepare your 3-line intro while we wait for elmos vote
[01:18] <zakame> Seveas: ok
[01:20] <Seveas> elmo, ping?
[01:21] <Seveas> Ping Timeout - since we have 4 in favor: welcome abourd david`lap! zakame, you're up.
[01:21] <david`lap> great, thank you all
[01:21] <seb128> congrats david`lap
[01:21] <zakame> I'm Zak B. Elep, returning new candidate from 27/9.  I've turned 21 last September 22, and I've been using GNU/Linux for more than 2 years now, starting with Debian and now on Ubuntu.  My current work for Ubuntu includes localization to Tagalog, packaging Lighttpd, documenting my experience with the Conexant HSF modem, and coordinating with people in Ubuntu-PH.
[01:21] <zakame> Updates since last application: First, as aboutubuntu is now completed (in fact in Breezy already,) now translating the BIG faqguide (with some of the FilipinoDocumentation pages on the side ;).  Second, my lighttpd packaging is almost done, fixing a new ./debian and finalizing the minimal default configuration: hopefully I'll be able to bring it to REVU today for MOTU scrutiny ;)  Third, I've reported 5 bugs at LP, 3 of them already fixed :)
[01:21] <zakame> .  Lastly, I've written down my experience on getting the Conexant HSF modem to work on Ubuntu, and am editing the wiki page as we chat ;)  I am also involved in formalizing Ubuntu-PH, setting TeamGoals as well as brainstorming on what to do with the ubuntu-ph website; in fact we'll have a meeting tonight to discuss this.
[01:21] <zakame> My vision: In 2 to 5 years I want to see Ubuntu as a major OS in .ph, speaking Tagalog and supporting applications for education---already I'm seeing this happening via Edubuntu, and at the back of my mind I'm formulating courseware for using ubuntu in grade schools.
[01:22] <Seveas> zakame, doesn't look bad, have you had contact with the MOTU about your packaging?
[01:22] <ogra> .ph is phillipines ?
[01:22] <Seveas> yes
[01:22] <zakame> ogra: yep
[01:23] <Kamion> zakame: have you done much coordination with the Debian Tagalog translators? I notice clock-setup is fully translated into Tagalog in d-i trunk, although I haven't checked if it matches your translations in Rosetta
[01:23] <dholbach> Seveas: yeah, he's in #ubuntu-motu for quite some days now
[01:24] <Seveas> ok, good 
[01:24] <zakame> Seveas: yes, but just an announce iirc in UniverseCandidates...
[01:24] <zakame> ... and yes, in #-motu
[01:24] <zakame> Kamion: yes, but the one in d-i trunk iirc was not the right translation
[01:25] <Kamion> zakame: it would be worth coordinating with them to get it matching up - I (as installer guy) generally try not to end up as the go-between for debates between translators in languages I don't speak :-)
[01:25] <dholbach> who of the motu crew worked a bit with you, zakame?
[01:25] <Seveas> is there anyone from .ph who can vouch for zakames translation work?
[01:26] <zakame> Kamion: I am working with eric pareja (pusakat) in debian-tl on this :)
[01:26] <Kamion> zakame: great, thanks
[01:26] <zakame> Seveas: I wish jsgotangco was here :(
[01:27] <Seveas> yeah, me too, without anyone to back up your statements deciding will be hard
[01:27] <dholbach> zakame: are you mail@bluefireworks.net?
[01:27] <zakame> dholbach: no, zakame@spunge.org
[01:27] <dholbach> hrm
[01:27] <dholbach> because lighttpd on REVU got uploaded by mail@bluefireworks.net
[01:28] <zakame> hmmm... somebody beat me to it?
[01:28] <Seveas> lol :)
[01:29] <zakame> dholbach: I'm a bit delayed on lighttpd because I want to implement something like apache2's modular site configuration
[01:29] <Kamion> jsgotangco owns the lp ubuntu-l10n-tl team and zakame's a member of it, so presumably he at least approved that :)
[01:29] <Seveas> I'm leaning towards a +1
[01:30] <zakame> Kamion: yep, Jerome got me into all this after LinuxWorld Philippines :))
[01:30] <tseng> dholbach: two makes a team.
[01:30] <ogra> tseng++
[01:30] <zakame> I was particularly impressed with Edubuntu, and I want to work on that after faqguide :)
[01:31] <ogra> YAY !!!
[01:31] <dholbach> apart from the packaging, i remember you showing up at the bug day :)
[01:31] <zyga> re
[01:31] <zyga> darn I've fallen asleep
[01:31] <Seveas> How about a +1 and a request for a progress report, just like spayne?
[01:31] <zyga> is the meeting over?
[01:31] <Seveas> zyga, not yet
[01:31] <Kamion> +1 for zakame as far as I'm concerned after reading through some of the links and list archives
[01:31] <zyga> :-)
[01:32] <Kamion> I don't feel a big need for a progress report
[01:32] <Seveas> ok
[01:32] <zakame> dholbach: yeah... the channel was awfully silent when I was there though... or it could be just dialup lag
[01:32] <dholbach> yeah, based on motu/bug activity, i'll give +1 too
[01:32] <smurf> +1 from me, likewise
[01:32] <Seveas> ok, that makes 4
[01:32] <tseng> +1 for #-motu
[01:32] <tseng> oh :)
[01:32] <Seveas> I'm guessing elmo won't return
[01:33] <ivoks> bye all
[01:33] <dholbach> night ante
[01:33] <ogra> night ivoks 
[01:33] <zakame> bye ivoks :D
[01:33] <Seveas> ok, zakame welcome aboard!
[01:33] <Seveas> and make ogra happy with edubuntu ;)
[01:33] <ogra> welcome zakame :)
[01:33] <dholbach> and motu land too :)
[01:33] <zakame> w00t!
[01:34] <zyga> is the candidates-for-membership voting over?
[01:34] <zakame> maraming salamat sa inyong lahat! :D
[01:34] <dholbach> zyga: no :)
[01:34] <Seveas> zakame, assuming that you're not cursing: thanks!
[01:34] <dholbach> hihi :)
[01:34] <smurf> I think the next agenda item is " Ubuntu IRC registrations"
[01:34] <ogra> *g*
[01:34] <Seveas> smurf, no
[01:34] <zakame> Seveas: that's "thank you all!"
[01:34] <Seveas> next is JonathanJesse, but I'll speak on his behalf
[01:34] <ogra> smurf, did you look at the member proposal list ?
[01:34] <Seveas> Jonathan Jesse has been a great contributor to the docteam, he has written a very large part of the kubuntu docs and is active and eager to do more. He has been trying to become a member for a while, but the meetings are never scheduled on times he can make it (either asleep or driving home). I would like to propose him as a member even in his absence, based also on good recommendations from mdke 
[01:34] <Seveas> and Riddell.
[01:35] <smurf> ah, sorry
[01:35] <ogra> its endless
[01:35] <Seveas> zyga, you can go next, you're on the agenda
[01:35] <zyga> Seveas: okay
[01:36] <Riddell> Jonathan did great work getting the kubuntu docs into shape for breezy, he was quite a hero
[01:36] <Kamion> Seveas: I'm uncomfortable about approving people in their absence - perhaps if we're having an unusually-timed meeting during UBZ anyway, we can take advantage of that to invite people who wouldn't normally be able to make it
[01:36] <Seveas> Kamion, ack, let's make the meeting in two weeks work for him
[01:36] <Kamion> one week, I think, but whatever
[01:36] <Seveas> one week is the forums issue meeting (a special thing)
[01:37] <Kamion> yeah, no reason not to piggyback a membership application or two onto it though, I think
[01:37] <Seveas> :)
[01:37] <Kamion> if they have real problems showing up normally
[01:37] <Seveas> true
[01:37] <Kamion> anyway, zyga
[01:38] <Seveas> yes polease
[01:38] <Seveas> s/o//
[01:38] <zyga> okay, as I said above my name is Zygmunt Krynicki
[01:38] <zyga> I'm a long time developer, I've discovered linux about two years ago as a part of my job
[01:39] <zyga> right now I'm active ubuntie and I've got a couple of ideas that I'm planing to implement for dapper
[01:39] <dholbach> could you sum these ideas up briefly?
[01:39] <zyga> I'm working with mvo on update-manager and I also plan to incorporate my next-generation l10n ideas if I make it before the deadline
[01:39] <zyga> dholbach: yes
[01:39] <smurf> zyga: what's your job?
[01:40] <zyga> I want to improve on the idea of language packs (more in a moment)
[01:40] <zyga> smurf: I'm a freelance code
[01:40] <Kamion> I think dapper is perhaps not the time for sweeping changes, being a long-term-supported release - but they could be brought in on an experimental basis and integrated more deeply after dapper
[01:40] <zyga> smurf: during my work I've designed a large lingustic search system
[01:40] <zyga> smurf: I've hacked an ancient database (all C so far)
[01:41] <Kamion> (I haven't really looked at ng-l10n much yet - I think it may need some adjustments to avoid awkward clashes with the dpkg-managed filesystem namespace, but now is not the time to discuss it really :-))
[01:41] <zyga> smurf: I've written a bunch of webpages with php
[01:41] <zyga> I'm currently modifying ubuntu for a kiosk live cd enviornent
[01:41] <zyga> and providing support for my python converter for internal stuff at american express
[01:41] <zyga> Kamion: back to l10n-ng
[01:42] <Seveas> zyga, your wiki page looks outdated (mentions nothing about new l10n-ng for instance)
[01:42] <ogra> zyga, restricted to live CDs or also usable in other environments ?
[01:42] <Seveas> zyga, ignore, i am blind
[01:42] <Yann2> thanks again folks, good night!
[01:42] <zyga> short about l10n-ng: no clashes, totally new place in current fs namespace
[01:43] <zyga> everyone: my ideas are outlined in my blog in somewhat more detailed form
[01:43] <Kamion> the paper mentions /usr/share/locale-ng/, which is within the space that is currently managed by dpkg
[01:43] <Kamion> /usr/local is (in general) outside that space and might be useful
[01:43] <zyga> ogra: actually it's a limited firefox working full-screen with printing support
[01:43] <ogra> ah, jk
[01:43] <ogra> -j
[01:44] <zyga> Kamion: that's exactly why I want to become a member 
[01:44] <Kamion> I don't follow?
[01:44] <zyga> as a member I could post my ideas on planet.ubuntu -- people could find bugs in my design
[01:44] <Seveas> zyga, memberhip is considered a recognition of past contributions, not the place to start contributing.
[01:45] <Kamion> zyga: ubuntu-devel@ is probably a better place for that sort of thing anyway, or the wiki for collaborative design
[01:45] <zyga> Seveas: true, I've contributed to polish translations alot
[01:45] <dholbach> i'd like to quote mvo (who had to leave early): <mvo> +1 for zyga from me on the basis of his i18n work and his i18n contributions to the various tools I maintain
[01:45] <zyga> :-)
[01:45] <Seveas> *checking karma*
[01:45] <Kamion> planet isn't really great for that sort of thing, as it's too ephemeral and not all of the people you want/need feedback from read blogs regularly
[01:45] <zyga> Seveas: my karma was re-set sometime ago
[01:46] <zyga> Seveas: please check my translations page
[01:46] <Seveas> reading it
[01:46] <Seveas> too bad that page isn't really detailed
[01:46] <zyga> My ideas for the next 3 months: get l10n-ng up and running, integrate with update-manager
[01:47] <Seveas> zyga, as said before: dapper may not be the right release for a complete integration yet
[01:47] <dholbach> zyga: apart from implementing your software project, what do want to do in the ubuntu community; i saw you floating around in quite some channels already?
[01:47] <zyga> dholbach: I promote ubuntu among my working environments and friends, I help with bugs, I learn new stuff
[01:47] <zyga> dholbach: recently I've created the MOTURuby team 
[01:48] <zyga> dholbach: I whish to improve ruby and learn more about packaging in the process
[01:48] <zyga> Seveas: that may be true, but after dapper there is dapper+1 :-)
[01:49] <dholbach> ok, any other questions for zyga?
[01:49] <ogra> zyga, whats your opinion on lucas' meaning that a MOTU team sould rather do its contributions in debian ?
[01:50] <zyga> ogra: I disagree
[01:50] <zyga> ogra: I think that 
[01:50] <zyga> 1) good solutions apply everywhere - probably not at the same time but eventually
[01:50] <zyga> 2) this is MOTURuby, not DebianRuby
[01:50] <zyga> 3) It is not bad to share ideas though
[01:51] <zyga> I think lucas had some personal issues that made collaboration difficult but that he will get past them eventually
[01:51] <ogra> nice to see that you got a objectively opinion about that :)
[01:51] <Kamion> it's also good to coordinate where major compatibility issues are involved
[01:51] <Kamion> package naming is the usual case for a complex subsystem like ruby with lots of packages and dependencies all over the place
[01:51] <zyga> maybe I could say something about my bad sides
[01:51] <bhuvan> * going back to sleep :)
[01:51] <Kamion> coo, this is a novelty
[01:51] <ogra> :)
[01:51] <zyga> 1) I'm inexperienced with debian and I don't remember various policies
[01:52] <zyga> 2) I sometimes cut corners to get something working first
[01:52] <ogra> even experienced debian devs forget/ignore them sometimes
[01:52] <zyga> 3) I'm hard to argue with, sometimes I think *I* am right
[01:52] <Seveas> 2) and 3) are quite common :)
[01:53] <zyga> and last
[01:53] <zyga> I don't know all the tools that are around in modern linux dev envriornment
[01:54] <tseng> no one knows them all, im sure
[01:54] <zyga> I grew up in DJGPP and I practically built stuff from scratch
[01:54] <Seveas> you'll learn in MOTU land
[01:54] <dholbach> zyga: don't worry, that's true for most of us :)
[01:54] <zakame> zyga: djgpp!
[01:54] <ogra> but youre a regular -motu attendant ... 
[01:54] <ogra> that will come over time
[01:54] <Seveas> ogra, since how long?
[01:54] <zyga> zakame: (I was writing a rougelike like everyone else :-)
[01:55] <zyga> Seveas: not very long really
[01:55] <ogra> Seveas, quite long as a lurer, since some time more actively ... 
[01:55] <ogra> *lurker
[01:55] <dholbach> i highly value michael's (mvo) view on zyga, so i'd give the +1, although i'd like you very much to get cracking with the MOTUs/other-team some more... based on work on translations and involvement in the process with mvo +1
[01:55] <zyga> Seveas: but I've got some packages already - not accepted yet though :-)
[01:55] <smurf> I'm +-0 on zyga; IMHO: reapply in a month or two
[01:56] <Kamion> I think my main concern is that while I've seen zyga around a lot and I'm generally happy with how he's acting and talking, the wiki page is rather lighter on active contributions to date than we normally expect
[01:56] <Kamion> the translation work's definitely a good start, don't get me wrong, and I know ruby came in late and it was difficult to get changes made at the stage of the freeze we were at
[01:57] <Seveas> indeed, a month or six weeks is nice and for enough into dapper to see how that works
[01:57] <Seveas> and maybe even bits of the l10n-ng
[01:57] <zyga> :-)
[01:57] <Kamion> so I think I'm +0 as well, but please don't be discouraged, just want to see a bit more on the CV really :)
[01:57] <zyga> I sure hope so
[01:57] <zyga> I'm not discouraged
[01:57] <dholbach> zyga: is that ok? you'll join the CC meeting soon again? :)
[01:57] <Seveas> zyga, cool
[01:57] <zyga> dholbach: yes
[01:58] <arzajac> ...
[01:58] <dholbach> cool
[01:58] <Seveas> we'll see you in a few meetings then, thanks for doing good work
[01:58] <zyga> I've only came here because of mvo's suggestion
[01:58] <Kamion> as I say, the ubuntu-devel@ mailing list is a good place for publishing progress reports and ideas
[01:58] <Kamion> and you don't have to be a member to use that
[01:58] <Kamion> well, ideas -> wiki possibly, depending
[01:58] <Seveas> launchpad!
[01:58] <Seveas> long live the spec thing ;)
[01:59] <zyga> I've got a l10n spec around, not finished yet but I'll make it for the deadline for sure :-)
[01:59] <Kamion> Seveas: the launchpad spec tracker is mostly for coordinating conference scheduling at present; it links to the wiki for the actual meat of proposals
[01:59] <Seveas> ah ok
[01:59] <Seveas> well, having done members, let's move to the rest
[01:59] <Seveas> first up is myself
[02:00] <Seveas> There's finally progress on the IRC registration bit, Ubuntu is registered, and I am the group contact
[02:00] <Seveas> I am working on the hostname cloak things, asking every member whether they're interested
[02:00] <zakame> Seveas: coolness!
[02:00] <dholbach> cool
[02:01] <segfault> no DDoS anymore
[02:01] <segfault> :D
[02:01] <Seveas> Should I ask developers too, they generally are not in the ubuntumembers team on launchpad
[02:01] <Seveas> ?
[02:01] <dholbach> sure
[02:01] <Kamion> Seveas: yes, I think so
[02:01] <Seveas> ok, then I will
[02:01] <Kamion> thanks
[02:02] <Seveas> next: ubuntu brazil planet (unless someone has questions)
[02:02] <Seveas> is there someone from the brazil team?
[02:02] <segfault> me!
[02:02] <Seveas> segfault, can you clarify the 2 items a bit?
[02:03] <nalioth> y'all be safe
[02:03] <segfault> we're creating something like planet.ubuntu.com stuff, where we can tell brazilian people what is going on in the ubuntu world
[02:03] <Seveas> segfault, why do you want a subdomain of ubuntu.com?
[02:04] <Seveas> other locoteams use planet.ubuntu-fr.org or planet.ubuntulinux.nl
[02:04] <segfault> yes, if its possible. i bought the domain "ubuntubrasil.org", but it would be nice to be a ubntu.com subdomain
[02:04] <Seveas> the standard way is ubuntu-CC.org
[02:04] <smurf> segfault: the admin for all ubuntu-XX.org (exceot -fr and -es) domains is me; IMHO planet(o).ubuntu-br.org would make a lot more sense
[02:04] <Seveas> in your case ubuntu-br
[02:05] <segfault> yes, and thtat is the second question, who is in charge of ubuntu-br.org?
[02:05] <segfault> ops, just saw smurf admins it
[02:05] <smurf> segfault: See above ;-)
[02:05] <Seveas> segfault, you think you and smurf can work this out?
[02:05] <smurf> so, set up your webserver for it and I'll happily point ot to your site
[02:06] <Seveas> ok, arranged that (it's 2am so i'm going to speed up again :))
[02:06] <segfault> smurf: sure, we have a draft at http://www.ubuntubrasil.org/ubuntubr
[02:06] <Seveas> dholbach, you're up
[02:06] <smurf> ubuntu-CC.org is the standard domain for loco teams and we should keep it that way
[02:06] <segfault> seveas: thanks, we talk later, lets move on
[02:07] <dholbach> Seveas: you dropped rss?
[02:07] <smurf> segfault: send me email, that's easiest
[02:07] <Seveas> dholbach bhuvan left
[02:07] <dholbach> but bhuvan left 15 minutes ago
[02:07] <dholbach> i wanted to discuss ubuntu-motu@ mailing list
[02:07] <zakame> hmmm
[02:07] <dholbach> i think motu reached quite a lot of momentum the last months and it really (imho) should have it
[02:07] <segfault> smurf: sure, which addr?
[02:07] <Seveas> for what purpose would such a list be used dholbach ?
[02:08] <dholbach> we already have people who cannot always attend IRC and it'd be great to discuss things like that
[02:08] <dholbach> or start mentoring activity on the list
[02:08] <tseng> as  a corolary, i suggested and daniel and i opened #ubuntu-motu at the open of hoary
[02:08] <dholbach> Seveas: universe organisation in general
[02:08] <Seveas> imho splitting devel discussions between main and universe the way bugzilla and malone are split is not such a good idea
[02:08] <smurf> segfault: smurf@ubuntu.com
[02:08] <tseng> and things went at an explosive rate from there
[02:08] <Kamion> has jdub commented on this in the past?
[02:08] <Kamion> (the bugzilla/malone split will go away)
[02:08] <Seveas> i know, was just an illustration :)
[02:09] <dholbach> Seveas: we will use malone only at some stage, but this is something different
[02:09] <tseng> in terms of new contribtuors getting involved
[02:09] <dholbach> Kamion: yes, he did, but his complaints were rather tied to the size of motu back then
[02:09] <Seveas> so the -motu list will be a training ground filled with newbie question?
[02:09] <david`lap> thanks again all, time to sleep :)
[02:09] <Kamion> it is true that ubuntu-devel@ is overloaded and has problems with the signal-to-noise ratio
[02:09] <dholbach> Kamion: ++
[02:09] <ogra> Kamion, but thats not caused by mouts
[02:10] <ogra> *motus
[02:10] <Seveas> since the forum gateway was dropped, the snr has improved..
[02:10] <Kamion> it seems not entirely implausible that a separate list for MOTU mentoring (like debian-mentors@) could help with that
[02:10] <dholbach> Seveas: more for the organisation of universe rocking, creation of new motu teams and a starting point for mentoring
[02:10] <Kamion> ogra: there's a fair bit of "how do I do <simple development task>"
[02:10] <ogra> i dont like the idea of fragmenting development over severeal places...
[02:10] <Kamion> which isn't really on-topic for ubuntu-devel@ (mind you it might not be on-topic for ubuntu-motu@ either)
[02:10] <dholbach> i see separation as something different
[02:10] <Kamion> I'm ambivalent
[02:11] <ogra> but motu has grown a bit since hoary, so it might be about time... but i'd personally still wait a bit
[02:11] <dholbach> i think (as #ubuntu-motu) it makes things easier for people to get in - most of us will be signed up for both lists too
[02:12] <dholbach> any other motus here?
 ... most of us will be signed up for both lists too <-- then why split it off?
[02:12] <ogra> exactly
[02:12] <zakame> dholbach: yes, -motu as a separate list ought to make motu work easier
[02:12] <tseng> most of us = current motu
[02:12] <tseng> not the complete demographic
[02:12] <dholbach> Seveas: because it will be easier for other folks, who can't stand the noise on ubuntu-devel@ and easier for folks that start getting into MOTUing
[02:13] <Kamion> Seveas: by "most of us" he means most of MOTU as opposed to the core dev team; I know I probably wouldn't subscribe to -motu
[02:13] <ogra> dholbach, it wont prevent the nois in -devel
[02:13] <zakame> there was talk on building a motu-tools package in -devel recently, so I guess having a separate motu list to discuss that ought to lighten the devel list's load
[02:13] <Seveas> in the last few days only the motu tools thread would be appropriate for -motu
[02:13] <dholbach> ogra: no, not prevent it, but some type of questions will be re-routed
[02:14] <Kamion> like I say though, I'm ambivalent, and to some extent I feel happy to leave this to the listadmin's discretion based on what the current MOTU team think
[02:14] <ogra> people will still write "how do I do <simple development task>" to devel
[02:14] <dholbach> Seveas: there were people asking "how can i help out" or "how do i package?"
[02:14] <smurf> I think a motu list can help re-focus the -devel list though
[02:14] <Kamion> there seems to be disagreement between ogra and dholbach, who are the two I'd normally turn to to find out what "MOTU thinks"
[02:14] <zakame> hmmm
[02:14] <dholbach> Kamion: not the first case :)
[02:15] <Seveas> rofl
[02:15] <zakame> haha
[02:15] <ogra> Kamion, thats a long standing disagreement that makes the quality of our laedership currently :)
[02:15] <Kamion> disagreement is not a bad thing, you know ... ;)
[02:15] <ogra> yep :)
[02:16] <dholbach> i can see all your points, but i personally think, that this is the time to do the "jump" - i refuse to see the "separation" in it, because motu is already a lasting institution in ubuntu's community :)
[02:16] <Seveas> true
[02:16] <eiken0> nenuit tlm !
[02:17] <Seveas> but make it a training ground, so you attract new blood :)
[02:17] <Kamion> ok, can you guys discuss this further and take it to jdub as listadmin if you come to an agreement to create a list? I don't think we have a consensus here
[02:17] <ogra> dholbach, people hi just want to know "how do i package blah" will rather go to devel than to motu
[02:17] <eiken0> night every1 
[02:17] <dholbach> how do we proceed? defer^Wre-route to ubuntu-devel@?
[02:17] <ogra> s/hi/who
[02:17] <dholbach> ogra: we will spread the word
[02:17] <Kamion> I think if ubuntu-motu@ existed you could probably do plenty of things with it; by the same token we can improve how we handle the SNR on ubuntu-devel@
[02:18] <Seveas> Kamion, but to find out if that would work the list would have to exist ;)
[02:18] <Seveas> I'd say +1 on the list, dholbach has some good points
[02:18] <Seveas> and I'll use it to spam the motu with packaging questions :)
[02:18] <Kamion> +0 then, if we're voting
[02:18] <smurf> +1
[02:18] <ogra> -1 
[02:18] <ogra> :)
[02:19] <dholbach> will we have this discussion for each team getting a mailing list?
[02:19] <ogra> tseng, some words from a motu POV ?
[02:19] <Seveas> dholbach, the MOTU is kinds special
[02:19] <tseng> i gave some, no one listened :/
[02:19] <Seveas> tseng was positive
[02:19] <tseng> i thought opening #ubuntu-motu was the single most tangible boost so far
[02:19] <dholbach> i'm really not exuberantly pissed, i just wonder, how we will take care of those cases
[02:20] <smurf> dholbach: for some teams the separation will be a bit more obvious
[02:20] <tseng> and that the ml could have similar results
[02:20] <smurf> s/some/most/ even
[02:20] <Seveas> tseng, ack, I think it actually will, since not everyone is as ircaholic as we are :)
[02:20] <dholbach> ok, we take it to ubuntu-devel@ and discuss again?
[02:20] <Seveas> plus: mails are archived!
[02:21] <dholbach> is that the "consensus"?
[02:21] <ogra> dholbach++
[02:21] <Seveas> which makes a nice knowledge base over time
[02:21] <tseng> dholbach: wfm
[02:21] <Kamion> dholbach: yeah, what smurf said, I think it really only gets tricky when there's significant overlap; and in any case jdub has discretion to create lists, it doesn't have to come to the CC if he reckons it's uncontroversial
[02:21] <dholbach> Kamion: it's not the first time we go on his nerves with that list :)
[02:21] <dholbach> oh well... :)
[02:21] <dholbach> date of next meeting? :)
[02:21] <Kamion> ok, any other business?
[02:22] <arzajac> I am sorry I missed the beginning of the meeting.  Have we touched on the forums issue (again)?
[02:22] <dholbach> oops. sorry
[02:22] <ogra> i slowly start to see the need based on the frequency of requests, but i still think its to early
[02:22] <Seveas> date of next meeting will be decided in consensus with the forums team
[02:22] <tseng> arzajac: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas < we are at the close
[02:22] <Kamion> arzajac: we agreed to hold an extraordinary meeting during UBZ, when we can manage a time that hopefully more forums folks can also make
[02:22] <arzajac> I waited until now...
[02:22] <Seveas> I'll announce this date as soon as possible (hopefully before the weekend)
[02:22] <Seveas> arzajac, you could have asked...
[02:22] <arzajac> Okay, thanks!
[02:22] <Kamion> arzajac: somebody (er, I forget who, sorry) was sent off to gather some proposed times
[02:23] <Seveas> Kamion, that was me :)
[02:23] <Kamion> right
[02:23] <Seveas> anyway, end of meeting, goodnight all :)
[02:23] <arzajac> Okay, thanks!
[02:23] <tseng> Seveas, master of the meeting
[02:23] <Kamion> but I'm afraid it's 1:22am here and I think we really need to close or I'll fall over
[02:23] <zakame> Seveas: thanks!
[02:23] <tseng> Kamion: sleep well.
[02:23] <Kamion> night all; thanks for steering, Seveas
[02:23] <Kamion> (as usual)
[02:24] <zakame> good morning all!
[02:24] <dholbach> good night everybody
[02:24] <zakame> oh, when's the next meeting?
 I'll announce this date as soon as possible (hopefully before the weekend)
[02:25] <zakame> ah
[02:25] <Seveas> 2:22 here
[02:25] <Seveas> i'm going to bed - my fiancee already is pissed 
[02:25] <zakame> awww
[02:26] <Seveas> ogra, the flight is long, sleep in the plane ;)
[02:26] <dholbach> good night
[02:26] <ogra> Seveas, thats the plan...
[02:26] <ogra> else i wouldnt have attended
[02:27] <zakame> bye all, and many thanks again :)
[08:56] <bhuvan> gone through irc logs. what was the decision regarding ubuntu-motu mailing list ?
[11:21] <Seveas> bhuvan, no decision yet
[02:18] <flint> Good morning from DC
[02:20] <flint> Did I miss a memo, or is the edubuntu meeting moved?
[02:21] <flint> Well, I will leave this channel open while I do some chores.